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We have a public hearing item number four on proposed amendments to 13.82 regarding electronic signs in the holiday village. 00:00:00
Umm. 00:00:11
That issue will discuss in the work session as well. 00:00:13
After the public hearing has been closed and we get into the work session. 00:00:18
Item number 5 is a public hearing on the removal of requirements to bond for private improvements. 00:00:23
To not essential that are not essential for public safety. 00:00:29
That item actually will be voted on tonight as I in item number 7, Ordinance 2023-10. 00:00:33
So if you are here to address the Council on either of those public hearings? 00:00:43
Signs in the Holiday Village or removing bond requirements. 00:00:50
Please wait till I open up those public hearings. 00:00:55
If you are here to address the Council on anything other than those two public hearings. 00:00:59
The public comment period is now open. I know Trudy's gonna come up. So, Trudy, you can be first. 00:01:04
See what's happening at the library. 00:01:11
Thanks for having me. 00:01:15
There are a lot of fun things happening at the library. 00:01:16
For starters, we just got some blood pressure cuffs. So we now have four blood pressure cuffs that you can check out and take 00:01:19
home. 00:01:22
Help keep track of your blood pressure. If that's something that you want to you want to note. 00:01:25
On September 30th, we are going to have a solar bration, so to get everybody prepared for the eclipse that's coming on the 14th. 00:01:30
We have Joanne Brown, who is a solar eclipse partner for the National Science of Teaching and Solar Science Institute, also a 00:01:39
teacher at Ollie Junior. 00:01:44
She will be giving a presentation and there's going to be crafts and treats and lots of fun. 00:01:50
So that's at 10:30 on Saturday, September 30th. 00:01:55
Also note that we're going to be closed on October 9th for staff development. 00:01:59
Um. 00:02:03
And then other things that we've got going on, we've started having on Thursdays at 11 AM. We're going, we have tech support, We 00:02:04
have one librarian available to help you with any tech problem you might have. We will, we will give it a go. Software, hardware, 00:02:08
you name it. 00:02:12
Um, we also have ACT Prep for people who are doing that starting on September 12th and that will be a weekly event. 00:02:17
And we're going to start some Dungeons and Dragons. And who doesn't love that? 00:02:24
So yeah, come to the library and see what's going on. It's a lot of fun. We're going to have a tree talk series with the tree 00:02:28
committee. It's. 00:02:32
Lots of things going on. 00:02:36
Thanks. 00:02:38
Awesome. 00:02:39
Anybody else for public comment? Come on up. There's one here. And then. 00:02:47
There you go. 00:02:51
My name is Becky Burridge. I live over on Russell Street. 00:02:55
And I'm here to ask you to vote for in favor of the landscaping. 00:02:59
Regulations, Ordinance. That's being changed hopefully. 00:03:04
We feel my husband and I feel like it would be a really good thing if we could adopt the new Central Valley. 00:03:09
Water Conservancy District guidelines for landscaping. 00:03:17
We think that this would give. 00:03:22
Individual homeowners like us and also organizations like our church and holiday. 00:03:25
A chance to modify our. 00:03:31
Landscape so we can be more water wise. 00:03:35
And give it give us an incentive to do that and it's actually would be about 2-2 dollars. 00:03:38
Running foot. So it's a significant amount of money that could. 00:03:46
Could be involved in and would help us quite a bit. 00:03:50
We feel like it's a. 00:03:54
We live in a desert and we really need to be to be responsible. 00:03:56
Citizens, we need to conserve. 00:04:01
All our resources, including water, whenever we can. 00:04:03
And and I think this would be a real. 00:04:07
Would be in line with what's going on with other cities like Salt Lake City, Cottonwood Heights, Mill Creek, or some of the ones 00:04:10
who have already adopted it. So. 00:04:15
I just wanted to encourage you to vote in favour of it. 00:04:20
OK. That will be item number six if you want to hang around. I don't think it will be too long before we get to it. I do expect 00:04:23
the motion on that. 00:04:27
Thank you. 00:04:31
My name is Andy White. I'm at 5690 Pheasant Lane. 00:04:40
And I'll start by telling you that your e-mail address on one place on one of the websites. 00:04:44
Has a space before and after the act, which means it doesn't think you exist. 00:04:51
The city. 00:04:59
Yeah, yeah. 00:05:00
I think everything I'm. 00:05:04
Want to mention has to do with enforcement. 00:05:06
And I am guessing that enforcement is not easy. 00:05:09
I. 00:05:14
Would like it to be easy. 00:05:14
I emailed. 00:05:18
To. 00:05:20
All of you except you, I said. City Council? Oops. 00:05:22
And I can e-mail it to you. You can get it from them. 00:05:28
One I've talked about before. 00:05:34
And I realized this goes with UCPD Unified Police Department as well. And so I don't know where all the lines connect. 00:05:37
But people walking on on sidewalk streets. 00:05:46
Particularly at night with earphones in. 00:05:52
And walking on the right side where the traffic drives and I keep thinking. 00:05:56
It would be neat if the police would just pull over and say, excuse me ma'am or excuse me Sir. You'll be much safer if you'll wear 00:06:02
a different color or carry a light and walk on that side of the street. 00:06:07
And hopefully they will say ohh. 00:06:12
Thank you. Undo it. 00:06:15
I'm not aware we've. 00:06:17
Killed anybody. 00:06:19
That way for a number of years and that one that died. 00:06:21
The driver is now in jail. I think he's still there after. 00:06:25
He's got 25 years to go. 00:06:29
Golf carts. 00:06:33
I know there was an article, I think in the City Journal a few months back that said no, no, no, you're not supposed to do that 00:06:36
here. 00:06:40
But you wanna see golf carts? I can. I can find them most nights for you. 00:06:44
I drive Walker Cottonwood Haven Lane almost every night to get my mother-in-law for dinner. 00:06:49
And almost every time. 00:06:55
There's at least one. 00:06:58
And if you added the ages of all the people that are in that cart. 00:07:00
It would probably be an adult. 00:07:05
Which would have to Add all those ages together. 00:07:07
Umm. 00:07:10
Sometimes, and I haven't figured out exactly how to put this together, but I think we're a city that cried wolf. 00:07:12
And it's a minor thing, but there is a road work or men working on the road sign. 00:07:20
On the West End. 00:07:28
Of Walker. 00:07:30
That my mother and I law mother-in-law and I bet about a year ago said how long you think that sign will be there? 00:07:32
She bet, I think a month. 00:07:39
And as I recall, I bet two months. 00:07:43
And. 00:07:45
I guess we both lost because that bet was a year ago. 00:07:47
And it's still there. Other signs have come up for other projects since, and I keep thinking. 00:07:51
Why don't the patrol? 00:07:58
Call some central number. 00:08:00
With the city and just say ohh hey. 00:08:03
Let so and so know. 00:08:07
See something, Say something. 00:08:14
I know I can call here and report something, and I think it generally gets where it's supposed to go. 00:08:17
But I would like to see. 00:08:24
The police, It just seems to me that if they're patrolling every night. 00:08:26
And I know they don't drive around all night, but they go through places that if, if. 00:08:31
They had a a plan where OK, we'll just call this one number and then whoever at the city. 00:08:36
Can transfer it to whoever it is. 00:08:42
I think that would be helpful. I called today on a on a thing on 62nd South and the secretary said it's still like that you called 00:08:46
last year about that. 00:08:51
And I said, yeah, I did. 00:08:55
And I'm tempted to take a small sledgehammer and go fix it. 00:08:58
But then, is that a can of worms now? The city says Ohh. Call Andy. He'll fix that. No? 00:09:03
Alright, and my main issue. 00:09:10
And. 00:09:13
Actually, I can. 00:09:15
Give everybody a part. 00:09:17
Thank you, Andy. 00:09:24
Is. 00:09:27
This came up with. 00:09:29
Well. 00:09:32
There are. 00:09:33
3. 00:09:35
Houses. 00:09:36
On Walker that are. 00:09:38
I think one of them has not lived in yet. One of them has been lived in for a few weeks. 00:09:41
And the third one has been there for a few months. 00:09:46
And. 00:09:50
At the top of this, marked in yellow. 00:09:51
I've taken from the holiday code from Mill Creek code from Cottonwood Heights, and from codepublishing.com some general comments 00:09:54
about what outdoor lighting in residential areas should be. 00:10:00
And as I try to summarize those, I say. 00:10:07
Sounds like it shouldn't. 00:10:10
Glare in other people's eyes off the property. 00:10:13
And. 00:10:17
With enforcement, and especially since some people aren't even in the house yet. 00:10:18
It might be a good time to look and see if they fit code. 00:10:22
The three addresses on Walker. 00:10:26
2083 which is right near the east or the West End on the north side. 00:10:30
And then the last two on the South Side before you get to Cottonwood Lane 2222 and 2224. 00:10:35
Part of me wishes. 00:10:47
That the police officers in our area lived in our area. 00:10:49
And then if there's something. 00:10:55
Ugly. 00:10:57
They're probably more likely. 00:10:59
To have something done about it. 00:11:02
Because it's their backyard. 00:11:04
And again UPD. 00:11:06
I know some UPD officers. 00:11:09
And. 00:11:12
I like them. 00:11:14
But I think the idea that it's. 00:11:16
I know it's not in my backyard. 00:11:19
Thank you. 00:11:23
I hope you find enough money to get an enforcement department. 00:11:24
Thank you. 00:11:30
Anybody else for public comment? 00:11:35
OK. We'll close public comment. I do want to say Trudy, before you might get up and leave, but we were awarded the. 00:11:41
What's the right term, Holly? The healthy community? 00:11:48
We were one of three cities that were awarded that and I think the big part of that. 00:11:51
Is the stakeholders that were involved with. 00:11:56
And the library came up as part of. 00:11:59
What's important to make up a healthy? 00:12:03
Community, it's a piece that for that. 00:12:05
There are many pieces, but that's a significant part of it, so. 00:12:08
Where we appreciate all that you do for the City of Holiday and the citizens of Holiday. 00:12:12
OK, public comments closed. We're on to item number 4. This is a public hearing on proposed amendments to 13.82 regarding signs in 00:12:20
the holiday village. I'm going to ask John Teerlink to step up just a minute. Give us a brief overview. I'll tell you as John's 00:12:28
making the podium. We'll be discussing this particular item in further detail in the work session following. 00:12:35
The regular council meeting, you probably won't hear a lot other than John's comments before we open up the public hearing. So. 00:12:44
It's all yours, John. Thanks, Mayor. Application before the City Council tonight is a legislative request. 00:12:50
From 711. 00:12:58
To amend the Holiday Village zoning ordinance for signage. 00:12:59
Currently within the Holiday Village zone. 00:13:04
Internal illuminated type signs are highly restricted. 00:13:07
In a preference of having external type. 00:13:11
Signage which is not as bright. 00:13:14
As an internal sign could possibly be. 00:13:17
Elsewhere in your ordinance for other commercial zones, internal site internally illuminated type signs. 00:13:20
Aren't allowed type of illumination for monument science, while science et cetera. 00:13:27
However, in the village, aesthetics is. 00:13:32
Paramount and that is something that's been decided that it's not type of the type of illumination is not allowed. 00:13:35
So when 711 approached our department last year, the request was to convert their. 00:13:42
Current pole sign which is the marquee tiles to A. 00:13:49
LED type sign that can be changed remotely or even within their store. 00:13:53
That internal type sign is not something that's allowed in the village and. 00:13:59
They've been making do as you could tell. 00:14:03
Since then, with those numbers marquee tiles. 00:14:06
So the applicant has put together a request to amend the Holiday Village Ordinance to allow for. 00:14:11
An internally illuminated sign that's specifically for a gas fuel price type. 00:14:16
Lit. Sign. 00:14:23
Now. 00:14:25
The applicant didn't really put together any amendments specifically, so staff, what you see before you is what the Planning 00:14:26
Commission recommend is. 00:14:29
Recommended at in A40 vote. 00:14:33
That we've put together that we believe something, if it were to be approved, could be compatible. 00:14:37
What we were mostly interested in ensuring that the village aesthetics were taken into consideration. 00:14:42
Especially with the General plan saying that. 00:14:48
This is a pedestrian oriented situation. 00:14:52
We're not trying to grab attention from vehicles passing by at 464040 miles an hour. 00:14:54
So if we were to have a fuel price type sign. 00:15:00
This is how it should be looking like. 00:15:03
So the village definitely has an allowance for monument signs. 00:15:06
Those are the signs you see placed in the ground that are about 6 feet tall or so. 00:15:10
So staff has put together a set of amendments that allows for 50% of that. 00:15:15
Monument size. 00:15:21
To be devoted to. 00:15:22
A fuel price sign that's internally illuminated by LEDs. 00:15:24
Specifically, we wanted to ensure that the color of the LED was not something that's obtrusive. 00:15:29
So muted tones are paramount. 00:15:35
As well as. 00:15:38
Making sure that it turns off at dusk, or at least dims at dusk. 00:15:40
And so that you don't have that bright and light that's shining out there. 00:15:46
The main caveat to what this been proposed here is the applicant can have both both the post sign and the monument sign. 00:15:50
So in order to get the monument signed, the post sign has to come down. 00:15:57
Now that's something that the council's previous has been had had a focus on when we incorporated was the removal of poll signs in 00:16:01
general. 00:16:05
Outlining them. 00:16:11
So that all of them, now that are up, are nonconforming. 00:16:12
So they can't be expanded upon. They can't be. 00:16:16
Taken down and rebuilt if something were to be. 00:16:19
Modified. They'd have to come into compliance with the monuments type site. That's what this ordinance would entail to do. 00:16:23
They couldn't have both types of signs. 00:16:28
Other than that, I can answer any questions you might have. 00:16:34
Well, I think the applicant. 00:16:38
I don't think they're I have. I have a question. 00:16:42
So. 00:16:45
Does the. 00:16:46
So the ordinance. 00:16:47
Changes the our structure with respect to the light emission. 00:16:51
Does it say anything about height, you know, monument sign versus you know? 00:16:57
Tall signs, I mean does it, does it change anything of that nature of the picture that you showed at the top of the of the report 00:17:04
showed a monument sign, obviously, yeah. 00:17:09
And so does this does it speak? Does it change that those requirements at all? No, it doesn't change the size of monument style 00:17:14
signs. It only says that if you were to decide to have a monument sign. 00:17:20
Only 50% of it could be. Now this is a lot more than 50%. But just a good example of what it could look like. OK, it could be the 00:17:26
fuel price devoted to fuel price signs or prices. 00:17:30
The other half could obviously be their logo. 00:17:36
OK. Thanks. 00:17:39
I've got some questions, but I think I'm gonna wait for the work session on mine. 00:17:43
Yeah, I think I will too. OK. 00:17:47
OK. With that, I'm going to open up the public hearing on this particular item. 00:17:52
Anybody to address the Council on this issue? 00:17:58
There being none, we'll close the public hearing and I will say that I we expect this to be on the agenda for September 21st for a 00:18:02
vote. We won't vote that one tonight, correct? 00:18:07
Yes. 00:18:14
OK. 00:18:15
Item number 5 is proposed amendments to Title 13 regarding the removal of requirements to bond. 00:18:17
For private, private improvements not essential for public safety. 00:18:25
This is really. 00:18:33
An effort on? 00:18:35
On behalf of the city to align our code with new state requirements in terms of what can and can't be bonded for in a 00:18:37
municipality. 00:18:42
So it's just. 00:18:48
The language is. 00:18:49
Really aligning with. Is it HP 406? 00:18:51
So any questions or do you need to add anything to that John, I think that. 00:18:59
No, Mayor, I think that's definitely the gist of it. 00:19:11
Just to clarify, we've used bonding as a way to ensure. 00:19:14
That specific improvements would be installed. 00:19:18
Especially when the situation of. 00:19:22
Winter rolls around the property or really wants to get in to the home. 00:19:24
Or the business owner wants to move in. 00:19:28
We would bond for certain elements like landscaping. 00:19:30
And other site improvements to ensure that those would be installed. 00:19:34
If it's not a private improvement and if it's more related to a public safety situation. 00:19:39
The private improvement bondings are something that we can no longer do. 00:19:45
And this, this, this amendment clarifies that. 00:19:49
So do we have any other? Sorry, go ahead. I was just going to ask John Dewey. 00:19:55
I mean, we don't really have a choice about this, right when we in order to comply with state law, we have to. 00:19:59
Make. 00:20:04
This amendment. 00:20:05
Correct. 00:20:06
But do we have any other tools at our disposal to still accomplish our objective? 00:20:07
Of. 00:20:11
You know we do just hold off the occupancy permit. 00:20:12
Is that too bad? So sad you don't get occupancy because we can't bond or? 00:20:17
Or are we just rolling the dice now? 00:20:21
We're not permitted to withhold the certificate of occupancy for. 00:20:24
Any landscaping failure on private property. 00:20:28
We do have other measures, but they're they're difficult. They involve code enforcement kind of actions, right, so. 00:20:32
Yeah, so it's more post occupancy. You know your weeds have grown you, you get a code enforcement issue, you answer. 00:20:40
And does this also. 00:20:48
I guess this covers. I remember we talked about. I guess it does. 00:20:50
Remember that all good discussion we had about the complaints about not only did we bond, but we did cash bonds. 00:20:53
This also. 00:21:00
That it's captured in that, Yeah, you're right. We did have we wanted to have a question of what type of bond was acceptable to 00:21:01
the city. 00:21:05
Unless it's We could still have that discussion only if it's a public safety. 00:21:09
Improvement like sidewalks or gutters, right, that type of thing. 00:21:14
Any other questions from the Council on this? 00:21:21
Issue. 00:21:23
They're being then we'll open up the public hearing. Anybody to address the council on item number 5. 00:21:26
They're being then we'll close the public hearing. We'll have a vote on this after the next item. We're on to item number six. 00:21:35
These are the water efficiency standards. That's. 00:21:43
You know we've debated, we I think we had two public or we held it open for two meetings on this particular item. It's been 00:21:46
through the Planning Commission. 00:21:50
And. 00:21:54
It's basically, you know, we've had a lot of interest from private residents as well as I think representatives from the holiday 00:21:56
United Church of Christ. 00:22:00
That have done a lot of work in terms of 0 escaping and trying to. 00:22:04
Reduce water usage. 00:22:11
On their their lots and. 00:22:13
Are trying to recapture a. 00:22:16
Incentive that's being provided by I think it's the Central Utah Water District, not Jordan Valley in particular, probably just. 00:22:19
Anybody associated with that? 00:22:26
And have not been able to do that because your municipality is required to have. 00:22:28
These requirements in place inside their ordinance, so. 00:22:35
We've had the public hearings, we've had quite a bit of debate. I think we're ready. 00:22:39
For a motion on this particular item, now the one thing we did. 00:22:43
Discuss and I wanted to say this publicly and maybe John, why don't you come up and address a little bit, just a couple of. 00:22:48
Tweaks we've made to the ordinance that was presented. 00:22:54
And what we're going to? 00:22:58
Be voting on tonight. 00:22:59
Right. 00:23:01
So specifically, when we were talking about what triggers this ordinance, what requires? 00:23:02
The Community Economic Development Department to require these new landscaping. 00:23:08
Standards. 00:23:13
Was new construction. 00:23:15
And there were some language previously. 00:23:17
That was questioned as to whether or not a remodel of interior space fell into that category. 00:23:19
We've contacted since the. 00:23:26
The water Conservancy district and removing those types of standards. 00:23:28
Would that hinder our compliance with state alignment and we? 00:23:32
They've confirmed that it would not. 00:23:37
So we staff has struck the remodel requirement out of that specific section. 00:23:39
As a being defined as new construction. 00:23:45
Any questions for John on that? I just want to make sure. I just wanted something on the public record that that kind of. 00:23:51
States a few tweaks we've made to what the ordinance that was actually. 00:23:57
On the website when we had the public hearing open. So it just basically limited it to new construction. 00:24:01
Yeah, John, just one note on that and I think we've, I made reference to this in the in our prep meeting. 00:24:09
If. 00:24:15
I I don't know where this the vote will land on this, of course, but should it go through? 00:24:16
I think it might be. 00:24:21
In our best interest to just confirm with the Utah, the Central Utah Water Conservancy District that. 00:24:24
The 20 and 50% additions. 00:24:31
Whether or not those would in fact be necessary, and if they're not, I would suggest that we consider removing those restrictions. 00:24:34
To still qualify for the rebate. 00:24:44
My understanding is that it's not, but I don't have that in writing though, so yeah. 00:24:48
Yeah, and and I've. 00:24:52
It's interesting that depending on who asks that question, they get different answers every time. 00:24:54
So the way that we've written the ordinance is that if basically flat out by definition new construction. 00:24:59
New concrete foundation. 00:25:05
In framing. 00:25:08
That would consider new construction as far as the state ordinance is concerned. But. 00:25:09
You know, if if we were able to eliminate that section entirely. 00:25:13
I'm not sure if there would be a way to have an optional type of. 00:25:18
Amendment that could be considered if we could, you know, review with the council or that they wanted the Conservancy district, 00:25:21
whether or not that would be something to be approvable, but. 00:25:26
That's essentially how we've addressed it. 00:25:31
Right. 00:25:33
My suggestion would just be that if we confirm that. 00:25:34
That we can. 00:25:37
Have the department report back that in fact they've confirmed it and we can bring another amendment to the ordinance. 00:25:38
We we do have some people who have been waiting on. 00:25:43
The. 00:25:46
The decision on this and the council, and obviously we don't want to make them wait, I don't think this provision affects their 00:25:46
particular circumstance at all. Sure so. 00:25:51
OK. 00:25:56
Mr. Mayor, I move approval of Ordinance 2023-09 amending Title 1304 and 37 seven regarding water efficiency standards. 00:25:59
Seconds. 00:26:11
Sorry, Mayor, I didn't realize that we were done with comments. I do have some comments that we're sorry we can have. 00:26:12
So we've got a motion in a second, but now we'll open it up for discussion to the motion. 00:26:18
Go ahead, go ahead. OK, great. 00:26:23
Let me just say that this is not an easy issue, right There's. 00:26:27
A lot of nuance, and I've struggled with this one. 00:26:31
As I've been thinking about this and spoke with a number of people in preparation. 00:26:35
And in considering what my position would be on it. 00:26:41
Commercial landscape architect, someone with in garden design, a professional in garden design, substantial and residential garden 00:26:43
design and that I spoke with the manager of Holiday Water. I spoke with some constituent various constituents. 00:26:51
And spoke also with. 00:27:00
Gal at the Central Utah Water Conservancy District to just make sure that I understood where the money was coming from and and 00:27:02
just kind of the intentions behind. 00:27:06
This rebate program. 00:27:10
And to the best that I've been able to determine. 00:27:12
That, that the, the, the Central. 00:27:15
Utah Water Conservancy District. 00:27:20
Is funded by all of our property taxes. In part. About a third of their funding is from that. About 2/3 of it is usage fees. 00:27:22
Essentially, that entity is a quasi government. 00:27:27
Entity like UTA in a sense. 00:27:33
And they act as a water wholesaler for 9 counties, Salt Lake County being one of those. 00:27:36
And so that's where the money comes from. They've got substantial funding for these rebates and it's available as long as funds 00:27:42
exist. And the uptake it didn't sound like has been huge, but or they've got far more in funding than than what the uptake is in 00:27:47
the use of these rebates. 00:27:52
Umm. 00:27:58
And I got to say that the, the, the, the person I spoke with there, she was fantastic. Like it was really, really great and helped 00:27:59
me to. 00:28:03
To better understand. 00:28:07
The intention behind it and we were they I should say we're mimicking in a program that. 00:28:09
Another I don't know if it was Jordan Valley or somebody else was doing a similar rebate and they were kind of patterning theirs 00:28:14
after this. 00:28:18
The intention behind it is to reduce. 00:28:22
Specifically lawn which is one of the less water conserving the green space options. 00:28:26
In places where it's not really used, like. 00:28:32
Front yards, side yards, park strips and that type of a thing. 00:28:35
That's the intention behind it. 00:28:40
And the. 00:28:42
You know, with the more water conserving options. She gave me an example and this was as of some time ago, so it may not be 100% 00:28:44
current. 00:28:48
But on Ivory Homes receives it has participated in some some areas that have a similar program. 00:28:52
And they've done some studies and they anticipate they they have estimated that it's about $1500 on 1/4 acre lot, you know 00:28:59
whatever this was that they kind of. 00:29:03
We're looking at to to do a more water conserving, irrigation, sprinkling system and that that, that up front. 00:29:08
It costs that much more, but that's very valuable for the long term. 00:29:18
To go that route, which is great. 00:29:21
Lawn is cheaper to do, right? And so that's where people will sometimes go that route. 00:29:25
And so the incentive is there just to encourage that having these good irrigation systems in that are more water conserving. 00:29:32
I'm very supportive of conserving water, and I want to make that clear. Our stewardships matter. Sustainability matters. 00:29:39
We need to be responsible like Missus Bird was just saying. I totally agree. 00:29:47
And I tend to think that people will do that with or without the incentive. For example, the church is doing that without. There 00:29:53
was on the prospect their hopes. 00:29:56
Of an incentive, but they are doing it nonetheless, and I tend to think that people will do that regardless. And who's not going 00:30:01
to try to, if money is available to help offset that cost and that burden. 00:30:07
Who it's It's understandable that they would go after that. 00:30:13
I but I'm also very supportive of property rights. 00:30:19
And my where I struggle on this one is. 00:30:22
Value is subjective and some people and. 00:30:26
Well, let's see. 00:30:31
Some people may place a much higher value on having a lawn in their front yard than than others. 00:30:32
So that's one challenge, I guess. 00:30:38
And the how in beating these noble ends, I guess also matters. I think holiday, as we know, is known for our trees and our green 00:30:42
spaces and that our. 00:30:48
And. 00:30:55
There was one letter that received we received from a constituent that went to the whole City Council that expressed concern over 00:30:57
the removal of lawns and then trees not getting watered and then potentially losing trees. I don't know how valid that is or not, 00:31:01
but it's a possibility. 00:31:06
One of the professionals that I spoke with made made me aware of an example they said were drip line irrigation, had this is I 00:31:11
think in Mill Creek. 00:31:15
Along a public Rd. where a line had broken and a whole line of trees that followed were all were all dead because of it, and you 00:31:19
maybe don't see it as readily when there's not lawn that is maybe a precursor to to the the. 00:31:25
The to to to tip you off to the death of. 00:31:32
Of these trees. 00:31:35
But anyways. 00:31:39
So. 00:31:42
I guess where I struggle is. 00:31:43
I see it as. 00:31:45
There's in one sense it's a little bit of a regulatory take today. People have the the liberty to put in the the amount of law 00:31:48
that they can tomorrow they would not. 00:31:53
And. 00:32:00
And the beneficiaries of that are those who choose to take advantage of the rebate, I guess. 00:32:01
So I don't like it from a principal standpoint in that regard. 00:32:06
The other is. 00:32:10
One size doesn't really fit all. 00:32:12
And I think that's. 00:32:16
Again. 00:32:17
It's well-intentioned, but. 00:32:18
My neighbor's lot, for example, is very. 00:32:20
Π shaped going from the street out and back. His house sits at the back of his yard and the bulk of his yard is in the front. 00:32:23
Mine's actually the opposite. I've got a huge backyard and a very comparatively small front yard. 00:32:31
And we put in policies like this. 00:32:37
It's just very difficult. Law is clunky I guess. 00:32:39
It's very difficult to craft them in a way that that doesn't. 00:32:43
That takes into account. It just doesn't fit all. 00:32:47
The. 00:32:52
And then the other thing is, there's often unintended consequences with this. 00:32:54
The garden design person I spoke with just said. 00:32:59
Going this route. 00:33:02
You know people will then go for the least expensive 0 scaping or or more water conservation options that just a lot of rock and 00:33:04
some and some. 00:33:09
Tufts of grass and that kind of thing. They're still weeding. There's concern that people will mow their lawn, but they won't 00:33:14
necessarily weed. I mean, there's. 00:33:18
There's this unintended consequences that can come in that in that way. 00:33:22
In California. 00:33:27
Excuse me? 00:33:29
The there was. 00:33:30
The the gal that you see. 00:33:33
At Utah concerts. Utah Central Utah Conservancy. 00:33:36
Had mentioned they have about a 4% recidivism rate. 00:33:40
That's what they figured where once a person puts the lawn in or excuse me, puts in the landscaping under these regulations, then 00:33:43
they'll go back and tear it out and and put put grass in. 00:33:48
If that's what they really wanted, right? 00:33:55
So and then and then the other thing in the as I read it and John you could maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that this 00:33:59
ordinance is also requiring newly requiring Alaska landscape architect plan. Is is that right John? Do you know it is? 00:34:06
I had. 00:34:14
Concern about that just in the you know. 00:34:16
When we're talking about affordability of homes and that kind of a thing, it's just death by 1000 cuts a little bit, right? And. 00:34:20
It's one other cost that. 00:34:27
You know I I. 00:34:30
Built my home about 10 years ago and mine was. 00:34:32
Not I just frankly the landscape architect, it didn't provide that much value. 00:34:37
And. 00:34:44
But it was a it was. It was. It was still costly. 00:34:45
It's just one other constant in building. 00:34:48
In the end, I tend to be in the camp that economics is the best way to sort this out. Holiday water has tiered pricing so that 00:34:52
when you're using more water it becomes the water becomes increasingly expensive. 00:34:58
That way people maintain the ability to do what they truly value. I think education is the way I would very much advocate more 00:35:07
education. Central Utah Water is they've got fantastic. That's actually their first priority is education. 00:35:15
They all send people out if we ever want to put on events or or whatever. But I think having a resource available to all who apply 00:35:23
for new permits could potentially and helping them to see the long term benefits of of planning irrigation systems smartly and 00:35:28
wisely. 00:35:34
I think that could be as effective. 00:35:40
And I also would certainly advocate us being an example of that here at City Hall. I mean like like I say sustainability matters 00:35:43
and I think we should lead out on that. And so I'm not opposed to that. I did go down, Ron Hilton had suggested going down to the 00:35:49
Jordan. 00:35:55
Jordan Valley Water Conservation Park, is that what it's called? 00:36:02
And it's fantastic. He was right. I would highly encourage anybody to go down there. It shows great examples of how things can be. 00:36:06
And it's not just rocks and Tufts of grass, you know, and that kind of thing. And so. 00:36:14
I guess in the end, those are my concerns. You can guess where I'll be voting. 00:36:19
But those are my concerns, OK? 00:36:24
OK. 00:36:27
Let me, I don't so much have the comment as well. Let me just say thanks Ty, for all of you really dug deep on this. I appreciate 00:36:28
that. 00:36:32
I guess, I guess I have a question and that is that we we had a presentation about a year ago from. 00:36:36
From. 00:36:43
What was the name of the group it was? 00:36:45
It was the flip your strip thing. It was the. 00:36:48
I can't remember the name of the. 00:36:52
Name of the group, but they came in and gave a presentation on flipping your parking strip. 00:36:54
And they had a number of. 00:36:58
Model. 00:37:02
Plans like for just for parking strip. This isn't talking about the rest of the property. 00:37:04
And actually some of those had some of those incorporated trees. So for example, I think that that may. 00:37:09
Respond I I'm not sure this ordinance would would. 00:37:15
Require trees to be cut down. 00:37:18
And I I hear everything you're saying. Ty and I have some resonance with it. 00:37:21
But I guess I guess my question is. 00:37:25
On the on the Landscape architect piece. 00:37:28
Is that going to be a requirement for our people to get the rebate? I don't know the answer to that. 00:37:32
No, because those are two separate issues. One is the ordinance that needs to be in place. 00:37:39
And the other is people who do this work to try to apply for a rebate. So the order, so in order to. 00:37:45
The the rebate to happen with these residents, the city has to have these ordinances in place. Yeah, but the ordinance itself has 00:37:51
nothing to do with their project. OK, OK, this allows their project to get a rebate. 00:37:57
But the requirements are being imposed on. 00:38:03
You know, new construction. 00:38:07
For which we? 00:38:09
Generally have very little because we're a built out city. 00:38:10
And so it is a bifurcated. 00:38:13
Couple of issues. OK, all right. And I and I agree with. 00:38:16
Very much of what you said, but I come to a different conclusion, primarily because of the ordinance itself when we first got the 00:38:22
ordinance. 00:38:26
Language a couple of weeks ago, I believe there was. 00:38:31
And we talked about this on the phone earlier today, but that there were, there were more. 00:38:35
Sticks than necessary to get the carrots. 00:38:40
And and so we addressed that and and we've we've made the the stick part very small. 00:38:43
In terms of, we got rid of the. 00:38:51
The trigger that was just on a remodeling. So if someone remodels their house and they remodel the whole darn thing, but it 00:38:53
doesn't change the footprint, all of a sudden they're then burdened with I gotta read landscape and that wasn't part of my plan. 00:38:57
Well, we got rid of all of that. 00:39:01
And so. 00:39:06
My view is to try to allow for the carrot to be that's been offered, to allow our residents to take advantage of that. 00:39:07
Without creating. 00:39:16
Trying to minimize the burden on the stick side, which I believe on balance, I think we've done very well in that. 00:39:19
It requires a either a brand new construction, a tear down or as we discussed in the in the previous meeting of a 50% increase in 00:39:27
footprint, which is kind of a rare thing. 00:39:33
And so I think we've really minimized the cost side to our citizenry in order to open up. 00:39:39
The bag of carrots that some of our constituents seek. 00:39:47
And so, although I share your concern in terms of the principles. 00:39:50
I think this particular legislation, though. 00:39:55
Minimizes sufficiently in my mind the cost side while opening up the benefits. And for that reason I'll be voting yes. 00:39:58
I I want to thank Tye Two for his hard work on this. I think that was a really useful information and I have some concerns about 00:40:08
unintended consequences, especially as it relates to trees. 00:40:13
As I understand it, the ordinance wouldn't require removal of trees, but the concern is more that the water. 00:40:19
That was used for the lawn and was sustaining the trees in the. 00:40:24
Public right away. 00:40:30
Might be insufficient to keep trees healthy, and so I think there might be some needs for some public education on that kind of 00:40:31
thing. 00:40:34
But our overall, I tend to agree with Council Member Fotheringham that. 00:40:38
On balance, I think. 00:40:44
In our Especially in our city, where? 00:40:46
New construction is such a limited. 00:40:48
Part of what we see in our in the development of our housing stock that. 00:40:52
The balance of cost versus benefit is appropriate in this ordinance and. 00:40:56
But I am. I am concerned about what it might do to our canopy and think we need to watch that. 00:41:02
Yeah. And I'll I'll just I. 00:41:08
I'm gonna fall in the yes camp on this one and I'll you know, I I don't think it's perfect. 00:41:11
And I too agree with everybody that I appreciate Ty digging into this. A lot of times we zip through these things, if anybody. For 00:41:16
the few people that come to the council meetings, we zip through and. 00:41:21
I wonder if they ever say, I wonder if they even look at the stuff that's if they just vote in it and. 00:41:27
We actually do and we come up to issues like this that start to. 00:41:31
You start to balance the public good against private property rights and I think ties position is. 00:41:38
Is this really? 00:41:43
Going to accomplish. 00:41:44
What it's meant to accomplish and at what cost? Is it going to accomplish that? What? How much? 00:41:46
Are you weighing weighing into people's private property rights, which I think is really an important debate to have? 00:41:52
I don't think it's perfect. I'm also concerned about. 00:41:59
The rocks with the little plant coming up out of there, and that's what we're. 00:42:02
Calling 0 Scaping and now those are turning into weed patches in our city, which I think is a whole. 00:42:07
Different discussion that we need to have, but I think that to me that is going to be the long term trend. I think the long term 00:42:12
trend has to be that we reduce. 00:42:17
We reduced the amount of grass we're not using for a purpose. 00:42:22
To try to reduce our net use of water, I think that's their direction and. 00:42:28
Trying to solve. 00:42:32
Some of these other issues as we go, but I'm not willing to delay the vote on this and I'm not willing to delay. 00:42:34
Residents ability to. 00:42:40
Receive credit back from POTS. As you've said they've already paid into if they're giving them out. 00:42:43
If you've paid into that pot and they say we're willing to give that money back out if you do ABC. 00:42:48
I don't want our city to be. 00:42:54
The reason they can't retain? 00:42:58
Or it can't recapture those rebates. 00:43:00
If it's available to them. 00:43:03
So I'll be a yes vote as well. 00:43:05
All the question, OK, I think we've got a motion in a second. That's one other question, John. Do you know do is it only for the 00:43:09
rebate only apply for replacement of some of the mayor mentioned just made me think about this, but in the case of new 00:43:13
construction. 00:43:17
Is does the rebate apply or is it strictly for? 00:43:22
Going in and tearing out. 00:43:26
Well, I mean, oftentimes in our city anyways, it's going to be tearing out, tearing down a house, you know, or whatever. But do 00:43:28
you know if the rebate applies to those who? Because that's one of my concerns too that I didn't mention. 00:43:33
Is that we hear from people who want it right now right. The people that are in a position to take advantage of the rebate. But 00:43:39
what who we don't represent are the people that haven't yet bought a house here and that don't you know that that well actually 00:43:45
one of the people I spoke to is about to build and and her comment was ohh I hope this doesn't happen before I build my house and 00:43:51
whenever however long so we it's it's you know this is one of those. 00:43:56
The problems of the scene and the unseen, you don't, you don't see those people who haven't done something yet, right? So yeah. 00:44:03
Well yeah, it would. It would apply is if they can prove how much lawn was there before they demolished. 00:44:09
And then what plans they were put into place, they could apply the rebate that way. 00:44:14
Great. Thank you. 00:44:18
If I may just I don't want to detract or add to what's been said. 00:44:20
The landscape architect element. 00:44:23
Not necessarily something that is required, however, if you're asking. 00:44:26
Either the state or through the legislative process, staff to review these landscaping plans. 00:44:30
Every single time we review an element of construction. 00:44:38
With the trust and verify situation. 00:44:42
We're asking the applicant or the property owner to give us information that we're going to be reviewing. 00:44:44
However, we're not the professional, we're not the architect, We're not the engineer. 00:44:49
We're not the landscape architect, so in order to ask for staff to review whether or not the irrigation system is. 00:44:52
Adequate to protect the trees that are there. 00:44:59
We prefer to require the landscape architect. 00:45:02
Provide us with those details rather than. 00:45:05
You know, trusting that it might work, and it turns out that it doesn't. 00:45:07
Or a design on a napkin. Hmm. 00:45:10
Understandable. 00:45:14
OK, we are going to go to vote on this and we will start with Council Member Brewer. 00:45:18
Yeah, we'll vote no on that. 00:45:24
Council Member Durham, Yes. 00:45:26
Councilmember Fotheringham Yes. Councilmember Gibbons, Yes. 00:45:29
And chair vote chess, so that ordinance is. 00:45:33
Passed and approved by the Council and thank you Council for. 00:45:37
Real thorough deliberation and the staff for your good work on this, and the Planning Commission too. It's been kind of a long 00:45:40
process. 00:45:43
So thank you. 00:45:46
OK. We are on item number seven. This item relates to the public hearing we just opened and closed on. 00:45:48
Bonds for private Improvements to Nonessential Public Safety Any further questions from the Council before we take a motion? 00:45:54
So, Mayor, I move approval of Ordinance 2023-10 amending Title 13. 00:46:05
Relating to the removal of bonds for private improvements not essential for public safety, I'll second. 00:46:09
Motion A second. Any discussion of the motion. 00:46:14
Councilmember Brewer, yes. Councilmember Durham, yes. Councilmember Fotheringham, yes. Council Member Gibbons, yes and chair 00:46:17
votes, yes. 00:46:21
20/23/10 is approved. Thank you. 00:46:25
Next is resolution 2023, Dash 23. 00:46:29
As discussed in the prior meeting, this is nothing more than Harriman asking to be removed from the CDBG process with the county, 00:46:32
and it requires our interlocal approval for that. 00:46:38
Any questions from council before we take a motion? 00:46:45
Does our current representative on that, does he have a term that expires? Do you know what what that is? I don't believe there's 00:46:49
a term on that, but let me double check that because I don't know. I hope not because he's been great. 00:46:56
I saw a blue moon and we have talked about it briefly. 00:47:04
Mr. Mayor, I move consideration of. 00:47:16
Resolution 2023-25. 00:47:20
Approving authority. Is it two or three or five or even 5? Ohh, I'm sorry I read it wrong. I've got a line through it and I 00:47:23
couldn't read it. 00:47:27
Approving and authorizing the execution of an interlocal cooperation agreement with Salt Lake County and other participating 00:47:31
municipalities. 00:47:34
Relating to. 00:47:38
Once reflected in the agenda. 00:47:41
I'll second it. 00:47:44
OK, motion. A second discussion on the motion. 00:47:48
Councilmember Brewer, Yes. Council Member Durham, Yes. Council Member Fathering Ham, Yes. Council Member Gibbons? Yes and Chair 00:47:51
votes yes. Thank you. Resolution 2023-25 is approved consent agenda. These are minutes. This is item number 9. 00:47:59
June 8th, 15th and July 13th. 00:48:08
Any questions or edits to those three groups of minutes? 00:48:12
And if not, I'd be happy to take a motion. 00:48:19
Mr. Mayor, I move approval of the minutes for June 8th, 15th and July 13th. 00:48:23
With the one. 00:48:28
Typo amendment discussed in the. 00:48:29
Meeting. Nobody. Briefing. Meeting. 00:48:32
Second OK, we have a motion to second all in favor say aye, aye. Any opposed? 00:48:34
And the consent agenda is approved. Thank you and Gina. 00:48:41
I don't. 00:48:47
You ready for the pictures? I'm going to start with the exciting stuff first. 00:48:50
Today the Mayor, Council Member Fotheringham, Cheryl Gillen, Holly and I took a trip to Lehigh to visit the foundry where our 00:48:57
public art is being created, and I just want to share a little sneak peek with you. I think it's not an overstatement to say we're 00:49:03
thrilled with it. 00:49:10
This is one of the Leafs that will compose our public art piece. There will be 7 total. 00:49:17
Let's take a look at the next slide, which will give us a little sense of scale. 00:49:25
So it is coming up fast. We're planning a footing installation. 00:49:31
That will begin on September 19th. 00:49:39
With the actual installation of the art piece on September 26. 00:49:42
We're hoping to have a ribbon cutting ceremony on October 7th. We can't say it's an unveiling because it's going to be there, 00:49:47
people are going to be able to see it. But we want that to coincide the ribbon cutting ceremony ceremony with the plain air event. 00:49:55
We've shared some details in the Journal, which I hope will be hitting mailboxes soon so that our residents are prepared for that 00:50:04
footing work that's about to start. 00:50:10
But we're really, really excited with how it's going to look and that is a small scale version. 00:50:15
Of. 00:50:21
The ultimate piece that will be there. 00:50:23
And how high is it, Gina? The very top. 00:50:26
The top leaf. 00:50:29
I think that's right. 00:50:31
It looked taller than that today. I'll tell you. Make sure the footings are really strong, right? 00:50:33
Yeah. And we had quite a discussion about the engineering that work that has gone on on their side and then on our side as well to 00:50:40
make sure that it is. 00:50:45
Strong and will last through snowstorms and wind events and also and. 00:50:50
Teenagers try to climb it. So Gina, this is Debra's little darken overtime as it oxidizes. And that is the huddle finish out. 00:50:57
Yeah, right. Yeah, great. 00:51:01
Looks beautiful. 00:51:05
It was, really. 00:51:07
I thought it was pretty cool. It was very cool. It's neat. That's council will be very proud of having been on this council and 00:51:09
this council did this thing. So yeah, yeah, just just don't put that curve too low and too close to the skate park. 00:51:15
And so that is something we talked a lot about as we selected the artist and looked at the design as just recognizing how the 00:51:23
Plaza is used, we wanted to make sure that it wouldn't become an attractive place for skaters to try and. 00:51:31
Scale up so it was designed with that in mind. 00:51:38
So that should be coming soon if you'd like to be around for the installation, I think we're targeting 10:30 in the morning. 00:51:44
Ish on September 26th, and if you're interested, let me know and I can. I can make sure you're aware of exactly what time it is 00:51:54
via text, OK? 00:51:59
Yeah, he was saying. 00:52:06
It would take about an hour. 00:52:08
To install it on the 26. That's it. 00:52:11
It's at the most of the work is installing in space, but then. 00:52:15
And tie that all into the foundation and you know that's the big part, but once that's in. 00:52:19
Create and set it all time. 00:52:25
Exactly right. 00:52:28
So it will be we'll have to get the exact time because if you show up. 00:52:30
20 minutes late, you might miss it. 00:52:33
We are hoping to have our drone. 00:52:36
Fill both the installation and the footing installation so we can we can do a little time lapse. 00:52:42
We can talk more about that. 00:52:49
OK, so that is our public art. A couple of other things to make you aware of. Today we release the. 00:52:53
Add for our full-time arts and culture manager, I'm happy to say we already have one pretty well qualified applicant. I I am 00:53:01
hopeful that we'll we'll have a host of good candidates to choose from. 00:53:08
Last night, both staff and the mayor participated in a candidate information session that I think went really well. 00:53:19
We'll do another. 00:53:27
Orientation post election, but just wanted you to be aware of that. 00:53:29
We are also preparing to launch our skate park fundraiser. 00:53:37
I don't think we have a date nailed down yet, but we're hoping that would be at least. One of the plans is that would be before a 00:53:44
council meeting where we'd have a demonstration of skateboard demonstration at the the skate park pizza and that would kind of be 00:53:50
our our lunch for. 00:53:56
The skate park, where are you going to ride? 00:54:02
I don't know. You'll have to come and see. I'll come. 00:54:05
I like that. 00:54:10
Also earlier in the summer, you all met individually with our pathways associates, consultants and just look for invitations. 00:54:13
For follow up. 00:54:25
To. 00:54:26
At that time, I think each of you had suggested some some individuals in the community that you might be best able to reach out 00:54:28
for out to for fundraising and Pathways. Holyoke Ham and Sahara Hayes will be reaching out to you directly to to set up those 00:54:33
one-on-one conversations. 00:54:39
Kind of in that vein, earlier in the summer we talked about a naming rights ordinance and I'll be bringing that to you hopefully 00:54:46
for discussion on the 21st. 00:54:51
One issue that has come up that I'd appreciate a little guidance maybe prior to the 21st is. 00:54:57
Whether the Council would be open to accepting. 00:55:04
Donations from developers and whether you might have restrictions on those donations. For example, would you like to see an 00:55:11
ordinance that allowed those donations but not from developers that have active? 00:55:19
Or. 00:55:28
Recently active projects in the city. 00:55:29
Any sort of guidance you might be able to give me tonight that I could bring to you would be helpful. 00:55:33
Makes me uncomfortable. 00:55:42
Me as well. 00:55:45
So generally uncommon. 00:55:47
People we would prefer not. Certainly not from a development company, OK, I think it would be really hard to come up with. 00:55:49
Criteria for which development companies could and couldn't do it I. 00:55:57
I think that would be really difficult. 00:56:01
What I was going to say is maybe maybe not from a company but for example an individual and I don't know Todd you know what your 00:56:04
take is on on how that we we certainly last thing in the world we want is the perception of buying influence right and so. 00:56:12
I don't know. Maybe that just means anybody you know. Any principle of a of a development company could not or I don't. How do you 00:56:21
do? How do you do that? 00:56:25
Because we have some fantastic people in our city who are very generous. 00:56:31
Irrespective of of that and the I hate to. 00:56:37
Not, you know, you know, hate for them to not be able to contribute in that kind of a way to the to the community. So I've only 00:56:40
seen this on a few occasions and the discussions I've heard. 00:56:45
Along the lines of what you're having tonight about. 00:56:50
Not accepting donations from. 00:56:52
Certain classes of businesses, corporations, you know. 00:56:54
Entities. 00:56:58
Kind of always end in the same place. While this is hard, I don't know how we draw these lines. How do we define this? This is 00:57:01
difficult. 00:57:04
Usually the follow ends up being. 00:57:08
That. 00:57:10
They put kind of a top level on donations. 00:57:13
As opposed to trying to restrict. 00:57:17
Who donates from developers specifically or just period, just kind of period. I've seen sometimes I think Farmington City did that 00:57:19
with. 00:57:23
Some things around one of their parks where they. 00:57:28
Did a fundraising kind of situation I. 00:57:32
I can look further into this for you in terms of you know. 00:57:35
Sort of the legal lines on restrictions like that I. 00:57:38
In the In the case with Farmington, we never were asked to do that and we didn't dig very far. 00:57:41
But I think it's a legitimate concern, obviously. 00:57:48
I wonder if maybe like a Family Foundation or a charitable, you know, a donor advised fund or well, I don't know anyways, it's 00:57:52
kind of a. 00:57:56
So it's a tough one. 00:58:01
Todd, I'm, I'm curious how. 00:58:04
The. 00:58:07
Donation cap is intended to avoid the problems of. 00:58:08
Appearance of propriety or the thought it was a fairly low cap. I think Park Farmington put like $1000 cap on their donation. 00:58:12
And the thought was a. 00:58:19
$1000 donated generally to the city to this specific thing that influence too much isn't going to influence much in and it the 00:58:21
thought also was. 00:58:26
Some of these companies that. 00:58:32
Potentially have the means to and I don't want to be pejorative, but have the means to buy influence. 00:58:33
It put everybody in the citizenry on an equal footing with them, more or less. And so the thought was this. This sort of removes 00:58:40
the majority of the taint of impropriety, right? 00:58:46
And what happened is there were five development entities that put money in. 00:58:52
And then? 00:58:55
That was exceeded by citizens of Farmington who put it much more. And so nobody ever felt like there was, you know, a taint over 00:58:57
that particular project. But. 00:59:02
I mean the the discussions are legitimate one, right? 00:59:07
So what I'm hearing from the council in terms of policy direction is that there's some concern and that you would you would want 00:59:11
us to bring you options that kind of limited that mitigate that, yeah. 00:59:17
I mean, I wouldn't want to completely shut the door on. 00:59:23
You know, because like Tye says, we have some very. 00:59:28
People that live inside this city, that develop all over the place. 00:59:33
That have foundations that do specific work through their foundation and if. 00:59:38
If they have a passion for the city and wanted to. 00:59:42
Donate to our Arts Council. Would we want to shut them out of that process? 00:59:45
So I think it's a good question, but. 00:59:51
And we're pretty built out, right? Yeah, we're pretty much built out. But the other side of it is, I wouldn't. 00:59:54
If there's some kind of active development going on, right? 01:00:00
Where they could be involved in it, I think that could be problematic because I would not want to have the perception that. 01:00:04
Somebody can? 01:00:11
By access or influence, we've never, you know, it's just not something I think we want to wade into. 01:00:13
We'll look, look for options to bring to you. We're thinking that would be in a work session first for discussion before a public 01:00:19
hearing. 01:00:23
All right. That's it for me. 01:00:29
Thanks, Gina. 01:00:31
OK, we will go to council reports. Why don't we start down with Ty and we'll work our way down the line. 01:00:33
Yeah, I'll just mention. 01:00:41
How about a lot of inquiries of late and I've been? 01:00:43
I have to express our thanks for our to our police. 01:00:46
Our police force. 01:00:51
And. 01:00:53
Chief Foyle's probably sick of my phone calls. 01:00:55
But he is fantastic. I'm so appreciative of his responsiveness, but but we have had. 01:00:59
We just had an incident. 01:01:04
Incidents a block away from me Monday night, I think. Well, it was after a series of, you know, because of someone with. 01:01:05
Mental health issues. And that that was, you know, scary. Honestly, this cuts out. 01:01:11
And and so. 01:01:17
And he's been fantastic about always always responding and that another his mother concerns of thefts and and and things like 01:01:19
burglaries and that and so. 01:01:23
Or I'm just very appreciative and I did 2 weeks ago started doing this. There's this Community Police Academy it's called, is that 01:01:28
what it's called, Community Police Academy? 01:01:31
It's an 8 week course and similar to the fire school that I went to a while back, this one is. It's very similar in that. 01:01:35
It just really helps you gain it. I'm ignorant like honestly and then this helps. 01:01:44
You know, shed some of that ignorance a little bit. I'll still be very ignorant, but shed a little bit just to all the all that 01:01:49
goes on. We toured the jail down on 7th West and 33rd South last week and then this week went to their their gun range where they 01:01:55
go through. 01:02:00
And just talk a lot about the all the training that they do and the different types of non lethal. 01:02:06
You know, force that they tried to use and and things like that. It's just really, really, it's been great. So maybe next year, I 01:02:12
think it's a is that a once a year kind of a thing? Yeah. 01:02:17
It might be something that some of you that haven't done it might consider it has been really good so. 01:02:23
Thank you to our police force and for their responsiveness as well. I have so. 01:02:28
Yesterday, the Mayor and Council member Quinn and I attended the Utah League of Cities and Towns luncheon, where holiday was. 01:02:35
Designated a Healthy Utah Community. 01:02:44
And. 01:02:47
We got an award and a certificate and. 01:02:48
Some recognition the mayor was in a. 01:02:52
A video and did a great job explaining the things that we've been doing in the community in the. 01:02:55
City here to help make our community more healthy. I want to especially recognize Holly, who I think has done a great job of. 01:03:00
Reinvigorating our Healthy Utah coalition. 01:03:06
Here in Holiday and it was just a really exciting culmination. I think of some good work. 01:03:09
For the last several months to to get. 01:03:16
US that designation. 01:03:20
One thing that I would mention that we're working on on the Happy Healthy Holiday Committee is. 01:03:23
Developing A strategic plan to kind of keep this momentum going. 01:03:28
So that we. 01:03:32
Really make some progress on the on some of the important health issues facing our community. 01:03:35
And it's exciting to see some of the data that we're generating to really find out where our community needs help. 01:03:40
So that was a great thing. And then today I met with the tree committee. 01:03:47
And we spent a. 01:03:52
Chunk of our meeting talking about. 01:03:54
A collaboration with Ivory Holmes and their 30,000 Trees project. 01:03:57
And the three committees come up with a. 01:04:03
Map that sort of designates some. 01:04:06
Places that are candidates for trees with this project, and so we're trying to specifically identify some areas for. 01:04:08
Maybe a planning in the fall and a planning again in the spring and with with. 01:04:15
Ivory Foundation. 01:04:21
And then I did want to mention one thing. There was some discussion at the tree committee meeting today about. 01:04:24
Whether. 01:04:30
There is a possibility and how we would go about. 01:04:31
Modifying the terms of tree committee members maybe to extend them a little bit and make them. 01:04:36
Longer. 01:04:41
So that we weren't trying to replace people as often. 01:04:43
I don't know if that's a possibility. 01:04:49
About that. 01:04:51
So certainly the council can modify ordinances at your discretion the way it is set up right now though. 01:04:53
The terms are and structure are kind of uniform for the Arts Council, Historical Commission and and tree committee, so you'd want 01:05:01
to give some thought to that, OK? 01:05:07
That's all. Thanks. 01:05:15
Well, what a summer it has been. The Arts Council loved the Arts Council. And what do we have? A great summer concert series. 01:05:18
Um. 01:05:27
Culminating in the Blue Moon Festival last weekend. 01:05:28
And. 01:05:32
And then having to end a smidge early because of a 5 minute downpour of ice cold rain which cleared everybody out in a hurry, 01:05:35
which also wouldn't necessarily a bad thing. 01:05:39
But prior to that, wow, what a great party. What a great event. 01:05:45
Kudos to the city staff, primarily the Arts Council, but also also all the staff pitched in. 01:05:50
To execute you know the the Parks Department with all the tables and chairs and our events coordinator Crystal who was out there 01:05:59
all day and all the the. 01:06:05
Arts Council board members out there, many of whom were there from. 01:06:12
You know noon to close at 9:00 or 10:00 at night, so. 01:06:17
A lot of great citizen participation. 01:06:21
I don't know if we got a count of attendance. Anybody. 01:06:24
Chief, what did you think our attendance might have been if you were to? 01:06:28
Swag that. 01:06:31
Yeah, any of us. 01:06:34
It was great now. 01:06:36
You probably didn't put the beer and wine sales in the healthy Happy Holiday application. 01:06:39
Alright. 01:06:44
It was in the happy part, It was in the happy part. But yeah, lots of smiles. Everybody loved the bands and wow, what a great 01:06:46
event. So kudos to the Arts Council for their great work and. 01:06:52
We look forward to that tradition continuing under a new director soon. 01:06:59
That's all I have. 01:07:04
Had some good interaction with these historical Commission. Looking forward to the. 01:07:06
Historic Walk exhibit I'll be meeting later this month with the RFP Selection Committee, which will be. 01:07:12
Interesting. 01:07:19
Also grateful to see. 01:07:21
So quickly, the Speed Enforcement Electronic Speed Enforcement signs on 6200 S. 01:07:23
That went in kind of overnight. I usually walk. I usually run every morning by that stretch. And one morning I looked up and ohh 01:07:30
my gosh, here are these. 01:07:34
Poles. Sort of like 2001 A Space Odyssey. Here's this obelisk. 01:07:38
It doesn't look like they're on yet. 01:07:42
I didn't. I don't know if they need to be charged up or. 01:07:45
Switched on. I haven't seen when cars go by. I haven't seen them light up, so I don't know. I don't know if somebody needs to go 01:07:48
in and. 01:07:51
Put a code in or something. But so usually there's the installation and then Rocky Mountain Power it needs to activate that. OK, 01:07:55
you might be at that. That's probably it. Yeah. Anyway, love those. And anyway, that's all I've got. 01:08:02
Oh, I wanted to. I wanted to thank John for. 01:08:10
Great follow up he's doing on the hotel. 01:08:14
Conditional use per or occupancy permit and enforcement issues. He's been great and he and I've interacted. So thanks so much John 01:08:18
for you and your. 01:08:23
Your crew it's. 01:08:27
Appreciate everything you do. 01:08:29
OK, a couple of things. One, I got to thinking about the arts, pictures and. 01:08:31
You know that project and. 01:08:37
You know, a number of years back, I think we went and accumulated. 01:08:39
A list of all the projects or awards we've received. 01:08:43
Over the years and it got me to thinking. 01:08:48
You know, had it not been for TRCC funding on the arts project, we wouldn't be doing it. 01:08:51
Right. Wasn't it 250,000 on that? 01:08:56
We just got the historical Commission grant, but I I started thinking back. I've been doing this for a while now and. 01:08:59
I'm not sure we did a. 01:09:05
I'm not sure we. 01:09:08
Went after pots of money as aggressively. 01:09:10
As we do now. 01:09:13
But I started thinking about. 01:09:15
All the things we have done in this city and the reality is we pay. This is taxpayer money we pay in. 01:09:17
But. 01:09:25
But there's all these opportunities to get it back. But getting it back requires you to know. 01:09:26
Where those pots of money are and. 01:09:31
And what those pots of money are supposed to be used for and then have people that are committed to going after those pots of 01:09:34
money. 01:09:38
And I started thinking about I'm going to drag out a little bit, but I think this is important but. 01:09:42
When I think about the 3900 S project, which was about $9 million. 01:09:47
And we just did got a Wasatch Front award to put bike paths in up there. The Canuteson Park project that we got $3,000,000 almost 01:09:52
of that money. 01:09:57
And all the arts awards that we've received, the land use, water conservation grants we've received to help us do. 01:10:03
The. The. 01:10:10
Park back here. 01:10:11
And. 01:10:13
Citizens don't see that, and they really don't understand it. 01:10:16
But a lot of the stuff we have done in the city has been as a result of our. 01:10:20
Knowledge and willingness. 01:10:26
And I left out we AFRC and you know various pots of money that are that are available through different programs through WRC. 01:10:29
That we've received a lot of money for for general plan stuff, The Walking trail study we're doing right now. 01:10:37
We received how much money for that? 01:10:43
Yeah. 01:10:46
The federal, the federal money we just got through House Appropriations, I mean. 01:10:47
We have done a lot of stuff in this city. 01:10:51
By. 01:10:55
And when I say we, I don't mean me. I mean. 01:10:56
Appropriate staff and they know who they are. 01:10:59
Who have been committed to. 01:11:01
To. 01:11:04
Identifying where these opportunities are and then going after it and it's been to the great benefit of. 01:11:05
Our citizens. 01:11:11
And I think we take that for granted sometimes, and I know our citizens do, because they just don't know. 01:11:12
But I wish they did know. 01:11:18
How hard we work to try to go get back. 01:11:21
Money that we've eventually paid into, that everybody has access to, but the reality is the people who get it are the ones that 01:11:24
really. 01:11:28
Work at. 01:11:33
Trying to understand where it is and how to get it so. 01:11:35
I think I was just thinking about this art piece and I think it's going to be such a cool little addition to our village. 01:11:37
And the bottom line is, we wouldn't be getting it if somebody hadn't. 01:11:43
You know. 01:11:47
Identified a track. 01:11:49
Opportunity for funding of that corridor, preservations another one and we'll our staff will be in front of the track committee 01:11:51
tomorrow again. 01:11:56
To put their best foot forward on skate park lighting and I think some. 01:12:01
Gazebo improvements and so just Gina to and Holly, whoever gets all the credit. 01:12:06
Please pass along our appreciation for that because. 01:12:13
We've. 01:12:17
Benefited a lot for that from that. 01:12:18
From the time I've been here. 01:12:21
So. 01:12:23
I'll just add, we really appreciate the dedication of the TRC Board overtime to understanding the vision of this city and 01:12:25
supporting that with funding. 01:12:30
OK, just very quickly youth council, you know I've talked to my neighbor Juan our say Lorettas kind of agreed to get involved in 01:12:38
that and I know that's been kind of an awkward I think there was a. 01:12:44
A little baton pass there that hasn't been maybe as clear as it should be and I apologize for that, but. 01:12:50
You know, we kind of consolidated the. 01:12:57
Application process. We got that down to one page and Stephanie printed those out for us and. 01:13:00
One, and Joni, my wife, Joni's been over to Cottonwood delivering those personally as well as the stuff we've blasted out. We're 01:13:06
just trying to raise the level of awareness for opportunities to participate, but also trying to communicate to the kids that are 01:13:11
going to participate that. 01:13:16
There's an expectation that they're going to be committed to it, so. 01:13:22
We'll see what happens. I know Juan may reach out to Stephanie and ask you to put an e-mail blast out to the people that are 01:13:26
signing up. 01:13:30
If that's OK. 01:13:35
We're going to have a get together. September 20th from 4:30 to 6:00 is an initial. 01:13:37
Gathering of those that have indicated interest, they have pizza and drinks and. 01:13:42
Do introductions and then talk about the years. 01:13:47
Schedule and what they want out of it, so on and so forth. So we're trying to. 01:13:50
You know, get get one involved, get, get Joanie's. 01:13:54
Still going to be committed to it. Stephanie. Hope he's going to keep helping us. Drew is going to keep helping us and. 01:13:58
See if we can get some kids involved in these council. They're going to be more committed to it than. 01:14:03
Than they have been, so we'll see what happens. 01:14:09
Just as a reminder, helping hands on the 21st, we've got nine, I believe awardees this year, the biggest by far. 01:14:13
So we're going to open up the meeting with that. We've got 9. 01:14:20
People that have been nominated, Cheryl's going to be one of them. I think that's public knowledge. I'm not leaking anything, 01:14:23
right? 01:14:27
Cheryl will be around for a little bit, but certainly there's an end to her term that's going to be in the next couple of months 01:14:31
and so. 01:14:34
We thought, we all thought it was appropriate that we. 01:14:38
Recognize her with that award on her On her way out, so she'll be here as well, Not only. 01:14:41
Presenting as a nominator, but receiving as a nominee, so. 01:14:47
That's all I have. 01:14:53
So we're just going to stay here. 01:14:54
I think. 01:14:57
We're not going to have a. 01:14:59
We're not going to have the storm water plan update Jared unfortunately as senator weather. So I think it's better to just stay 01:15:01
over here and finish up. So we'll still take a motion to recess to a work meeting Mr. Mayor I move we recess City Council and 01:15:06
reconvene and work meeting second. 01:15:11
Motion second. All in favor. Say aye. Aye, Aye. We are recessed. The work meeting. 01:15:16
We're just going to roll right into it. 01:15:21
So the public hearings, I I'm not sure there's a whole lot to cover. 01:15:24
On the bond private improvements that we didn't cover across the hall, I think it's. 01:15:28
It's pretty simple, any? 01:15:34
Claire Well. 01:15:36
Actually, we voted that. 01:15:38
We voted that never mind moving to 4. 01:15:40
The village signs. 01:15:45
So. 01:15:48
John talked about that. And so to me, John, I'll just started off and then we'll see where it goes from there, but. 01:15:50
I have two concerns there. One, there's to me, there's a. 01:15:56
Issue with illuminated. 01:15:59
Signs in the village, but there's also the issue citywide with just. 01:16:01
Not allowing for. 01:16:05
Illuminated signs in the city, right? Yeah. So what staff has been tried to do. 01:16:08
Was write the standards fairly extremely narrowly. 01:16:15
For fuel price sign only. 01:16:20
And aesthetics apart, the fact that these types of signs are elsewhere in in the city. 01:16:22
We wanted to ensure that we avoid any. 01:16:29
Semblance of an electronic type site. 01:16:33
And the way that staff has been able to craft that, hopefully in the ordinance, is to avoid that word altogether. 01:16:36
So the way we've written it, is that a way that's it's an internal illuminated sign, but it's done so with the LED. 01:16:43
That are stationary. They're they're focused, they're limited to. 01:16:52
Numbers from one zero to 10. 01:16:57
And and that's it. That's the fuel price sign is defined. 01:16:59
We've tried to eliminate any, any. 01:17:04
Worded or wording of message board or electronic message, you know, sign that's changeable copy, that type of thing. 01:17:05
However. 01:17:14
Todd Will. 01:17:16
Give you some advice that that is the slippery slope. 01:17:17
And as soon as we start allowing that type of sign being defined in any way, it could be interpreted detrimentally. 01:17:22
Yeah, That's my concern is whether that might. 01:17:29
I I really appreciate that was you tried to draft it very narrowly and that was obvious, but. 01:17:33
Whether that does the job of avoiding any kind of precedent or? 01:17:39
Argument that. 01:17:44
Other kinds of businesses should be able to have an illuminated sign if gas station does. 01:17:46
Yeah. So you'll remember a couple of years ago, there was a bill. I think it was the 2021 session. 01:17:51
There is a bill that ran started in the house. 01:17:58
Sponsored by Reagan Outdoor Advertising and the. 01:18:01
Sort of. The upshot of that bill was if you allowed digital advertising of any kind anywhere in your city. 01:18:04
Then. 01:18:12
Billboards would be opened up to digital conversion. 01:18:13
Wherever they sit. 01:18:17
And the way that was defined. 01:18:19
I actually think as narrowly as this is written. 01:18:22
It still would have opened you up. 01:18:25
To to the provisions of that bill. It didn't pass. It was defeated. 01:18:28
The last hours of that session. 01:18:34
Yep. 01:18:36
Thankfully went down in flames. 01:18:37
But I I have zero confidence that something like that won't come back around again. 01:18:39
And if it does, you know. 01:18:45
That's a powerful lobby. 01:18:47
And sometimes they win things in the legislature. And if you look at the Outdoor Advertising Act and the relocation standards, you 01:18:50
know, they've won sometimes. 01:18:53
So that's the that's one concern I have even as narrowly as this has been drawn. 01:18:57
This would be one of the things that would have brought holiday. 01:19:04
Sort of within the ambit of those regulations and. 01:19:08
I don't know there's much you could do about it in terms of other digital signage in the city. 01:19:11
I'm still confident in your ability to to make distinguished, to make distinctions based on the nature of the sign. 01:19:17
You know, the fact that we're talking about monument science and the way that we're. 01:19:25
Defining things here, I don't know that you necessarily open yourself up to every other kind of digital sign. 01:19:29
In this city, I think you can continue to draw those lines and I'm confident that. 01:19:35
Because their legislative decisions, you can. 01:19:39
Put forward a rational justification for those that would withstand the scrutiny you need to. 01:19:42
Now practically. 01:19:47
And politically, is it more difficult to defend those decisions? Sure. 01:19:49
You know that line is. 01:19:54
It gets blurred. 01:19:57
But legally, I think you can continue to sustain those justifications. 01:19:59
My worry has been if that same kind of legislation. 01:20:02
At the state level comes around again. 01:20:05
This this is something that would open the door. 01:20:08
But you also never know. 01:20:12
What the triggers are going to be. 01:20:14
When the legislation comes up in that particular bill. 01:20:16
That you would like those. That might be something you would like. They might be based on some reason, but they aren't always. 01:20:20
Might be a few. 01:20:23
Have a population of cows in your city that exceeds 12 that you have to then open up. 01:20:27
Electronic signage. Actually, you're at 10. 01:20:34
But the. 01:20:37
Yeah, you just don't know, right? 01:20:38
Yeah, my, my. I mean, I think he knew where this is probably going to go, but. 01:20:40
My. 01:20:45
Big concern is. 01:20:46
How? When the? 01:20:48
Olympus Junior High Community Council chair. 01:20:50
Comes up and says, well, how about we? 01:20:54
What if we don't do a rolling message and we just say? 01:20:57
We're just going to put up the message for the day. 01:21:01
How come? 01:21:06
They're gonna change the price on those. 01:21:08
And so how do I, how do we defend that? 01:21:11
With Olympus Junior High, who's got a? 01:21:15
Message board sitting there with nothing on it because we've told them they can't have it or the restaurant. 01:21:19
Or the OR any restaurant now that says, OK, we just won't have a rolling message. Or Cottonwood Elementary or every other 01:21:25
elementary that's special of the month up there, you know, Yeah, we won't have a rolling message and we'll do backlit LED lights 01:21:29
and we just want to. 01:21:34
Message to put up there, Yeah, And how do we? 01:21:39
I'm just wondering how we justify. I wonder why we why we would bend over for the oil and gas industry. 01:21:42
We would narrowly. 01:21:50
Frame a an ordinance just for that industry. 01:21:53
So that's account. That's the nose of the camera. Is this a concern to the Planning Commission or was it a pretty slam dunk? Well, 01:21:57
this, this is silliness. Let's let them put their gas prices up. 01:22:01
Umm. 01:22:07
It was discussed, but it really wasn't an overly concern to them. They thought they were more concerned with with the. 01:22:08
The brightness of what potentially could be. 01:22:14
Seen as an electronic sign as you drive down Murray Holiday roads knowing what other gas price signs look like. 01:22:17
The white lights, the blue lights that you see, the bright yellows. 01:22:24
They were more concerned with how bright it could possibly be. 01:22:27
So it's ultimately, it's down low. Ultimately they approve it. I didn't see that in the staff report. Maybe I just missed it 01:22:31
today. You're approve it unanimously? Yeah, 4 to 0. 01:22:35
Yep. 01:22:41
It probably looked at the the trade off too because you get rid of the. 01:22:41
Pole sign. 01:22:45
That was one of the other items. Is that the removal of the pool sign? 01:22:47
Is considerable. 01:22:53
For the village. 01:22:55
Yes. Then you tell me here, yeah, you can have that, but it has to be Monument, right? It's down. Tear it down and go only 6 feet 01:22:56
high. Yeah. And I don't know if ties been. 01:23:01
This might be before your day. It is, it is. I was really curious, honestly, what the council, what the sentiment was in the 01:23:06
council as to what was their biggest like, what were they trying to? 01:23:11
What was the main intent? I guess behind the ordinance? As it stands, we don't want the city to be filled with. 01:23:17
Illuminated billboards, billboard signs, and and so, whether they're digital or not, because like it is a 15 year old video burns 01:23:23
that used to be. I remember working for video burns, putting the little things up and changing the sign of the day. Man, it was 01:23:28
backlit, right? But it was. 01:23:33
Those kinds of things. And so is that one that could not be put in holiday today. 01:23:38
The the marquee signs but the old style where you where you use suction cups that's the sign that we've had to approve for the 01:23:43
theaters on. 01:23:46
Merry Holiday Rd. That's not a normal. 01:23:51
You know, LED, LED, here's the time of the movies and the title that's playing, they're tiles. And so again, the, the, the reason, 01:23:54
the rationale behind it was just to avoid the flashiness essentially. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. 01:24:00
And then your face flashing pretty. 01:24:06
We've been pretty strict on that too. 01:24:09
Our detriment a lot of times we've been criticized a lot for. 01:24:12
Not wanting to make exceptions because we're afraid of you know the attorneys use that county camels nose thing right under the 01:24:17
tent and. 01:24:20
That. 01:24:23
Is this that where? 01:24:24
We're making this exception for the gas station and. 01:24:28
Than other people start coming in and say, well, they can do it. How come we can? Yeah. And it gets hard to defend. That's that's 01:24:32
concerning that is it. We we've narrowed it to 1 industry gas stations and nothing gets gas stations I fill up all the time. But 01:24:37
you know, I mean what about what about other all every other commercial use. 01:24:43
I am kind of concerned about that. So John, my understanding was that there that there are some especially with modern technology, 01:24:50
right, like paper for example and those types of things where you can have. 01:24:55
Some because the probably the hassle for 7-11 is is very normal to have to publish your gas prices. Every gas station across the 01:25:01
country publishes their gas prices right And it's a pain to go out and manually do that right and that's that's not desirable. We 01:25:08
certainly don't want to impose that burden on somebody but if if the issue is the light the light and the in your face you know 01:25:15
kind of kind of a thing are there not is are there not technologies out there that muted or that make it more of just a you know. 01:25:22
A non radiating display kind of a thing or or something that is. 01:25:30
Yeah. Over the past month, I've found out more than I wanted to know about fuel price science. Yeah. 01:25:35
But there definitely are types of signs that are out there that are similar to those that you see. 01:25:41
Like at sporting events where they just flip over like the old alarm clocks do. Like the jumbo, those are electronic because they 01:25:46
can flip, they can be trained, changed. 01:25:50
And that's primarily the issue that the applicant has brought to us was. 01:25:55
One, the employees don't want to go do it anymore. 01:25:59
711 national They changed their gas prices. 01:26:01
Remotely. 01:26:05
You know, statewide, they all change at the same time. 01:26:07
And apparently he's he's had some issues with them. 01:26:11
Blowing off and hitting cars and making creating damage. 01:26:14
But you have it primarily with the Planning Commission. It was the Illumination type. 01:26:18
Being dimmed at night, you know, in muted tones. 01:26:23
And you know the use is expected. The type of size is with a gas station is expected to see. 01:26:28
That's essentially where they came from. 01:26:34
Don't I mean the? 01:26:36
Trying to think, but don't all the gas stations kind of have those? 01:26:38
Signs right now that are in the ones I can think of in the city, I'll have a. 01:26:42
Almost all of them do, yeah. 01:26:46
So this is just an issue for 7:11 because it's in the village. 01:26:49
Because it's in the village and in the in the village, you don't allow internally illuminated type signs. OK, yeah. 01:26:52
I mean, I I get it and I think it's. 01:26:59
Kind of silly to make them go, but I do. I just worry a little bit about. 01:27:04
Opening the door to people coming in and then trying to and it's going to be hard to. 01:27:09
Argue against that, I think. Well, I I mean, I think we probably told the schools. 01:27:15
We weren't going to let them do it because we didn't want businesses doing it. 01:27:20
Right. And now we're going to let the business do it. And yeah, it's OK for a gas station, but not for the school, Yeah. 01:27:24
And I might want to have a conversation. 01:27:30
With Todd to. 01:27:33
About controlling content, and that might be a situation that might get us in trouble. 01:27:34
Right constitutionally, we cannot control the content of a sign. 01:27:41
Time and place size. 01:27:45
How bright it can be, but the content knows off limits. 01:27:46
So to write it narrowly, yes, we've we've written it narrowly for a number system only from zero to 10. 01:27:50
I I think I'm more concerned with the Capitol Hill special that that might. 01:27:59
Catapult us into something we just don't even want as far as billboards. 01:28:03
Because because I agree, I agree with Todd that that that's my biggest concern is. 01:28:08
We'll have a new bill come in saying, hey, if you allow, you know you'll allow. 01:28:12
Illuminated signs. Then everything's gained for billboards. 01:28:17
And. 01:28:21
Given the nature of the community as sort of a semi rural sort of ambiance. 01:28:23
Man, I, I, I I'm pretty reluctant to open that door. 01:28:28
So Cottonwood Elementary being outside of the village center. 01:28:36
Could or could not have assigned. 01:28:40
Could not, could not. It's a mess. It would be a message type center sign. I wish our. 01:28:42
Not very, very explicitly, yeah. Got it. 01:28:47
Is. I don't even know this. 01:28:53
It's going to show my ignorance, but. 01:28:55
Is. 01:28:57
Olympus Junior inside the village. 01:28:58
No. 01:29:01
So. 01:29:02
Yeah, but it doesn't matter because those aren't those aren't allowed anyway. 01:29:04
Citywide, and we've made them. 01:29:09
Shut that down because it's not allowed and they installed it. 01:29:12
Without a permit and then they force us to come in and say. 01:29:16
You shouldn't. You shouldn't have done that. It's gonna have to turn it off. 01:29:20
Anyway, obviously there's some. 01:29:24
Concerns that, yeah, I guess we're going to have to wrestle with between now and the 21st. 01:29:28
Is there anything we can gather? 01:29:34
For the Council, any additional research you'd like us to do? 01:29:37
I think it's more just a. 01:29:44
Comfort question for me, I get it. 01:29:46
I do get it. 01:29:49
And and I think I think there's. 01:29:50
The legal piece we need to be. 01:29:54
Aware of too, like. 01:29:57
Like you're saying time. What 10 saying is, is. 01:29:58
Open it up an opportunity for. 01:30:03
You know, a legislate because that's all every year it's comes up right or there's something typically that comes up about 01:30:06
billboards. It's been quiet the last year. 01:30:10
Salt Lake City kind of made peace with Reagan. 01:30:15
I guess I would call it a sort of a temporary date hunt. 01:30:18
I don't think all the issues are resolved and I'm sure it's going to come back around, but for right now. 01:30:22
We haven't seen anything show up at the legislature that. 01:30:28
You know where they've gone after another new issue. 01:30:33
I'm aware of a couple of things percolating around the state that I think may very well. 01:30:36
Put this back on the legislatures agenda this coming year. 01:30:42
I don't know if he'll be in exactly the same form. 01:30:47
But if you I I just think it's fair to think about the. 01:30:49
Realistic part of this. 01:30:53
If a billboard, the way it's constructed now, is worth X dollars. 01:30:55
A billboard that can be converted digitally. 01:31:00
And can change over every 10 or 12 seconds. 01:31:03
Is worth X * 10. 01:31:07
And um. 01:31:10
They They won't be. 01:31:12
Going away? 01:31:15
And some of the locations you have in your city right now are not actually really great. 01:31:16
Well, well, where billboards are currently located? 01:31:22
And if the value of those goes up. 01:31:26
More. 01:31:29
The lease price that they may be willing to pay for them goes the chance of you. 01:31:30
Sort of eliminating those billboards overtime in my opinion just goes down. 01:31:35
And if they are digitally converted? 01:31:39
Even if the. 01:31:42
The sort of light suppression technology is. 01:31:44
Engaged as part of an ordinance or a state standard. 01:31:47
It's still a burden. 01:31:50
That's different in kind from what you have now on people who. 01:31:53
Live in those, you know, proximity, those that you look at, the one in front of. 01:31:56
The new development on Mary Holiday Rd. Just. 01:32:01
You know. 01:32:03
To the West part of the village. 01:32:04
Literally feet away from. 01:32:06
The residential structures, so. 01:32:09
Yeah, I I think it just comes down to the council is going to have to decide. 01:32:12
If that language is. 01:32:18
Narrow enough. 01:32:20
That we'd feel comfortable defending that. 01:32:22
If somebody comes and says, well, I don't think that's fair. 01:32:25
OK. 01:32:32
Anything else on there? 01:32:33
All right. 01:32:36
Stormwater trespassing policy this. 01:32:40
Chief, this probably has to do with the skate park and or is it broader than that? 01:32:43
You know. 01:32:48
Yeah. So I'll let you and Todd take it from there. I know. 01:32:49
So it's common and I think. 01:32:54
Many of you may know this, but. 01:32:57
If a private business has a crime committed on the property, a lot of times they will. 01:32:59
Give the perpetrator of the crime a criminal trespass order, Which? 01:33:04
Essentially says you're not welcome here, you can't come back. 01:33:08
Those have been applied on public property in a number of cases, in a number of circumstances in. 01:33:12
The chiefs indicated that it would be helpful to the city. 01:33:18
And really in the public interest, if we could do that with significant violations that might occur at the skate park. 01:33:22
I am comfortable with the issuance of those trespass orders, but only if we have a really good policy in place. 01:33:30
That. 01:33:36
Sort of. 01:33:38
Puts boundaries on our use of that kind of an order on public property. Public property has a different character, obviously, and. 01:33:39
And as a public entity, we have an obligation. 01:33:47
To protect constitutional rights, not to ignore them. And so we prepared a policy for the Council's consideration that would allow 01:33:50
the issuance of those orders, but only in these kind of circumstances and with the protections of the back end. 01:33:56
An appeal for somebody who may have been issued an order that didn't think it was warranted. 01:34:03
Enough process to. 01:34:08
To make sure that we're applying the policy fairly. 01:34:10
This policy isn't written just for the skate park. It's written for any public property in the city. It could so it could be 01:34:14
utilized at commutes and park. It could be utilized at City Hall. 01:34:19
At the park area, here at the playground, at the skate park. 01:34:24
There are other public entities who use. 01:34:28
This type of a process, it's not novel for public entities to use it. 01:34:31
So. 01:34:36
We're. 01:34:37
Just giving it to you for sort of your look. 01:34:38
And I imagine at some point. 01:34:42
Feedback and. 01:34:43
If it's appropriate, then we'll bring it back for you for formal consideration. 01:34:45
And thought to clarify, we had talked about this potentially as an administrative policy, so it wouldn't be for the council to 01:34:49
adopt, but we are looking for their feedback. 01:34:53
Sorry, can you repeat that? 01:35:02
We had adopted as an internal policy, so it wouldn't necessarily come to the council for approval, wouldn't be legislative, 01:35:07
essentially. OK, got it. Thanks. But we we don't want to put it in place until we have your feedback. 01:35:12
There's the policy. Is it a single policy regardless of the venue, or is it sort of? 01:35:17
Then you. 01:35:23
Centric. It's a single policy, regardless of the venue. It's intended to be written broadly enough that it. 01:35:25
It's applicable as much at Canuteson as it would be at the skate park. 01:35:31
As it could be a City Hall. 01:35:35
So there's a number of things that could trigger a trespass warning. 01:35:37
There are different people in the city who could direct the issuance of a trespass order. 01:35:40
Right, so. 01:35:45
I mean just because I think about. 01:35:46
Sort of a disorderly conduct. 01:35:48
Will have a narrower definition in that. 01:35:51
Deus here than it would. 01:35:54
At the skate park. 01:35:56
And so that's the nature of my question. 01:35:59
So the same standards apply, and I think that wouldn't. 01:36:02
Yeah, I I think, I think it would be fair to say the same standards apply, but I also think that the application of the policy. 01:36:06
The way it's written. 01:36:14
Permits. 01:36:16
Enough freedom. 01:36:18
Without abuse. 01:36:20
To be used appropriately in these circumstance, right? 01:36:21
So. 01:36:24
You might you might have something that occurs at this podium. 01:36:25
That disrupts the order and fair conduct of a public meeting. 01:36:29
And you might have to have the chief escort somebody out. 01:36:34
It wouldn't rise to the order of a disorderly conduct as it's defined criminally for what you would have as a fist fight over at 01:36:38
the skate park. 01:36:41
Right. 01:36:45
You could. There's room in the policy to apply those things differently. 01:36:46
Thanks. 01:36:50
And if cited a person for example, would it be specific to a location, so like. 01:36:52
They were at Canyon Park. It would be specific to canoes and park that they couldn't trespass or would it apply across? 01:36:57
All city amenities, you know the policy right now allows the city to determine that. 01:37:03
So. 01:37:10
If we have somebody dealing drugs at the skate park. 01:37:11
We could write a trespass order for the skate park and commutes and the City Park if. 01:37:14
If we determine that, that was appropriate. 01:37:19
And candidly, if somebody had that kind of a trespass order handed to him and they wanted to appeal it, they could come back and 01:37:22
say, look, I. 01:37:24
You know, skate park. OK, I'll stay away. But don't keep me out of cannons. And This is why it it allows room for consideration of 01:37:28
those kinds of things. 01:37:31
Right. 01:37:37
Did you get what you needed on that? It sounds like the council is comfortable with this. Yeah, I think OK. 01:37:41
I mean to me it's if. 01:37:47
I mean, look, we're having this issue with the skate park and this is another tool we can use. 01:37:50
To help. 01:37:55
Help us manage that problem. And we think it's just a few people, not all of them. 01:37:57
And the chief thinks it's a good tool. It's like, why wouldn't we want to use that? It's very appropriate, yeah. 01:38:03
All right. 01:38:09
Thank you. 01:38:10
OK. 01:38:12
Occupation parking. So I read through this in the packet and there's two definitions. What are they, John? I'm not looking at 01:38:16
them. There's two different types of home businesses. There's the regulated and non regulated. Regulated. So the non regulated 01:38:21
we're not worried with because they don't really impact. 01:38:26
There are people using their businesses, their home as a business, but there's no. 01:38:32
There's no physical impact to the property. They're just Mayo stuff, customers showing up, yeah. 01:38:37
And then there's the regulated. 01:38:42
And I'm just saying how I'm processing this so you can tell me if I'm wrong. 01:38:45
Where? 01:38:49
You do have impacts, but if. 01:38:50
If there were certain if there were policies in place or ordinances in place that say. 01:38:53
What is appropriate in terms of off street parking and those sorts of things? 01:38:58
We're spending a lot of time at the Planning Commission level issuing conditional use permits that are very seldom ever not 01:39:02
issued. 01:39:07
And it would just be much more efficient. 01:39:12
From a staff standpoint. 01:39:14
To just make sure that was clear and then let staff issue those. 01:39:16
Licenses, essentially, yes, we're looking for whether or not that would be a direction the council is interested in. 01:39:21
I mean, yes, yeah, sure. 01:39:27
Is there a downside to it? What's the downside? 01:39:31
Well, conditional uses historically have been a way for the Planning Commission can determine what an impact could possibly be in 01:39:34
the area that it's being proposed. 01:39:39
There's not always. 01:39:45
Determinant of way to figure out what all those impacts could possibly be. 01:39:48
However, over time we have a good, pretty good sense of where our Planning Commission stands on what types of. 01:39:53
Mitigative. 01:40:00
Requirements are that they put in place to to meet those those types of situations that arise. 01:40:02
So the only downside would be there would potentially be. 01:40:09
An odd use that we've never seen before and the standards don't fit. 01:40:12
But there could possibly be a way that if that does arise, that the TRC or the staff has the ability to say. 01:40:17
This could probably be something that the Planning Commission should look at. 01:40:24
Otherwise, it's approvable with these standards. 01:40:28
So you got all these boxes to check, and if they check them, you're like, yeah, it's fine. 01:40:31
And if it's a unique circumstance where it goes outside of that, you have the latitude to say you know what this is not consistent 01:40:37
with. 01:40:40
The the policy that was approved, I think this needs to go to the Planning Commission to make. 01:40:45
Yeah. And that way you open to hearing and you invite the neighbors to come in and the applicant as well, and they have a. 01:40:49
A transparent discussion on it. 01:40:56
Mayor. 01:40:59
One of the problems we've also seen, John, correct me if I don't have this right, but the way our ordinance is written now. 01:41:00
The. 01:41:07
Sort of the parking requirements for a home based business. 01:41:08
Are. 01:41:12
They're lumped in with any other kind of business also. 01:41:15
And we're we're just feeling like it would probably would be wise to consider whether or not we could write standards for parking 01:41:20
relating to home based businesses that are more narrowly tailored to that particular use. 01:41:26
Lumping them in with every other business that seems to be. 01:41:34
Not as good a fit as we think we maybe could draft in the ordinance. 01:41:40
We're interested in trying to actually get down to the impact of those businesses specifically. 01:41:44
Because the. 01:41:50
You know, we're we're creating some kind of burden on them. 01:41:51
When we we don't, we don't have. 01:41:55
We don't have those particular standards in place right now, not that are specific to home based businesses. 01:41:57
They're held. They're held to a commercial standard, essentially. They could be in some circumstances, yeah, and that. 01:42:03
That just hasn't felt necessarily like the best approach. 01:42:09
In certain circumstances, so yeah, I did. 01:42:13
So I'll qualify my. I'm in support of it, but I'm in support of it with the assumption. 01:42:16
That the next step would be to put together. 01:42:21
Standard, you know, standardization in terms of what staff is going to look at for those check boxes, Yeah, I don't. 01:42:26
I don't think we're interested in. 01:42:34
Just to bald delegation to staff without any standards. Yeah, I think that would be a mistake. 01:42:36
Obviously. 01:42:42
So, sure. And then it would open us up to the argument that they're action was capricious and yeah, you know, if they kicked it to 01:42:43
the Planning Commission without any. 01:42:47
Kind of set standards and we don't want a lawsuit. I I think your ordinance right now is perfectly legal. 01:42:52
I just don't know from a policy standpoint it's doing the job you want it to do. 01:42:58
I think we may be. 01:43:02
Restricting things that aren't necessarily as impactful. 01:43:03
As the ordinance would suggest they are. 01:43:07
And I presume this is not a wheel we have to invent either, right? 01:43:10
No, I I know there are, you know there are examples everywhere but. 01:43:15
One of the other things about parking requirement. 01:43:18
There's a little bit of uniqueness to home based businesses and their impacts, right. So no, we don't have to invent the wheel, 01:43:21
but I do think we want to give careful consideration to the applications we've seen here. 01:43:26
So I think we're in. 01:43:34
Assuming. 01:43:36
And I'm assuming this wouldn't even come to the council if if staff didn't think. 01:43:38
We're spending inordinate amount of time approving these. 01:43:43
Home occupied businesses that that. 01:43:46
Is not necessary. We can do this at the staff level. We can come up with what we think are. 01:43:50
Or. 01:43:55
The standards we think are appropriate, so to issue a permit and take that step out of it. 01:43:56
Not burden the Planning Commission. Not burden staff by having to prepare everything for the Planning Commission. 01:44:02
When you can do it perfectly well at the staff level and. 01:44:07
If it goes outside of what you think, those. 01:44:11
Reasonable standards ought to be that you have the option to say, you know what, I'm pushing this to the Planning Commission, 01:44:14
yeah. 01:44:16
You know, in addition to, we've heard some. 01:44:20
Not once some feedback from applicants who are saying the public process. 01:44:24
Was hurtful. 01:44:29
To my business. 01:44:31
And I'll use an example. 01:44:32
Mental health professional comes to the Planning Commission, has to divulge what they do professionally because they're seeing 01:44:34
clients. 01:44:38
And the clients are under scrutiny from a public point of view as to. 01:44:42
Having that type of clientele in the neighborhood. That's just one example. 01:44:45
So having it being able to open that. 01:44:51
That element up to the public process sometimes may not be necessary. 01:44:54
OK. 01:44:59
So assuming we're we can come up with those standards, I think we're supportive. 01:45:01
Is that what you're looking for there? Yeah. 01:45:06
Is everybody OK with that on the Council? Very much so. 01:45:09
Yep. OK, great. 01:45:11
Very quickly we've got our council meetings. I don't need to review those chalk. The walk is. 01:45:14
Saturday morning from like 9 to one or two or three. I think that it's going later this year. It used to be and at one, but this 01:45:21
year I understand the judging is from 2:00 to 3:00 with awards given at 3:00. 01:45:27
OK. 01:45:34
That's a great event. It is in. It is going to be done in conjunction with the. 01:45:35
Revel Marathon, which the chief is overseeing all the movement on that but. 01:45:39
It really stays South of the village. It kind of turns down Arbor, so I don't really see a whole lot of. 01:45:44
Conflict with. 01:45:50
Chocolate. And honestly, the marathon's going to be substantially over by what, 9 or 10? 01:45:52
She well about 12:30. 01:45:57
For the slow people. 01:46:00
Dan will be done by 8:30. He'll be. He'll be. 01:46:03
Mayor, if I may, yeah. If you guys get any calls or complaints or concerns, I'll be there for the duration of don't hesitate to 01:46:08
call me. I'll certainly help with one of the big messages we're putting out with our officers is that it's soft closure so that 01:46:12
when there's gaps, runners will get traffic through and. 01:46:17
We're going to try to help move traffic through as much as possible, but if you have concerns or anything that they're going to 01:46:22
that event, don't hesitate to call me. 01:46:25
Right. Thanks, Chief and thanks Gina and staff for work. I know it's been kind of a. 01:46:29
Inconvenient process. 01:46:36
1st. 01:46:38
Everything. 01:46:40
And you can see you can see the other stuff. The interface service is up and running for November 12th. It'll be over at. 01:46:44
The stake center on Viewmont this year. It's going to be a great event, by the way, if you don't have it on your. 01:46:50
Calendar, you should come be Sunday night, November 12th at 7:00 PM. 01:46:56
Tree lighting, holiday dinner and then councillor. 01:47:02
We'll see if we have council. I think we'll have council in December when we. 01:47:05
It isn't at the 14th. 01:47:09
14. 01:47:11
And we do have closed session, a quick closed session tonight so. 01:47:13
I would just need a motion to go into closed session as per the code on the agenda. 01:47:18
Mayor, I move to move to a closed session. 01:47:26
Pursuant to Code Section 52. Ohh. Sorry. Yeah, go ahead and read that tide close. I have to have that on the record. I don't have 01:47:29
that up here. 01:47:33
I got Mr. Move. We moved to the old school hard competition pursuant to Utah Code Section 52-4-204 and 2:05 Discuss. 01:47:38
Relevant. 01:47:49
Topics. 01:47:50
Second property acquisition. 01:47:51
I'll second that. OK, we have a did. 01:47:54
Is that motion clear there, Stephanie? 01:47:57
We have a motion to 2nd Councilmember Brewer. Yes. Council Member Durham, Yes. Council member, Father Hand. Yes. Council Member 01:47:59
Gibbons, Yes. Chair Vouchers. We're in closed session. Thank you. 01:48:04
Goodnight. 01:48:09
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We have a public hearing item number four on proposed amendments to 13.82 regarding electronic signs in the holiday village. 00:00:00
Umm. 00:00:11
That issue will discuss in the work session as well. 00:00:13
After the public hearing has been closed and we get into the work session. 00:00:18
Item number 5 is a public hearing on the removal of requirements to bond for private improvements. 00:00:23
To not essential that are not essential for public safety. 00:00:29
That item actually will be voted on tonight as I in item number 7, Ordinance 2023-10. 00:00:33
So if you are here to address the Council on either of those public hearings? 00:00:43
Signs in the Holiday Village or removing bond requirements. 00:00:50
Please wait till I open up those public hearings. 00:00:55
If you are here to address the Council on anything other than those two public hearings. 00:00:59
The public comment period is now open. I know Trudy's gonna come up. So, Trudy, you can be first. 00:01:04
See what's happening at the library. 00:01:11
Thanks for having me. 00:01:15
There are a lot of fun things happening at the library. 00:01:16
For starters, we just got some blood pressure cuffs. So we now have four blood pressure cuffs that you can check out and take 00:01:19
home. 00:01:22
Help keep track of your blood pressure. If that's something that you want to you want to note. 00:01:25
On September 30th, we are going to have a solar bration, so to get everybody prepared for the eclipse that's coming on the 14th. 00:01:30
We have Joanne Brown, who is a solar eclipse partner for the National Science of Teaching and Solar Science Institute, also a 00:01:39
teacher at Ollie Junior. 00:01:44
She will be giving a presentation and there's going to be crafts and treats and lots of fun. 00:01:50
So that's at 10:30 on Saturday, September 30th. 00:01:55
Also note that we're going to be closed on October 9th for staff development. 00:01:59
Um. 00:02:03
And then other things that we've got going on, we've started having on Thursdays at 11 AM. We're going, we have tech support, We 00:02:04
have one librarian available to help you with any tech problem you might have. We will, we will give it a go. Software, hardware, 00:02:08
you name it. 00:02:12
Um, we also have ACT Prep for people who are doing that starting on September 12th and that will be a weekly event. 00:02:17
And we're going to start some Dungeons and Dragons. And who doesn't love that? 00:02:24
So yeah, come to the library and see what's going on. It's a lot of fun. We're going to have a tree talk series with the tree 00:02:28
committee. It's. 00:02:32
Lots of things going on. 00:02:36
Thanks. 00:02:38
Awesome. 00:02:39
Anybody else for public comment? Come on up. There's one here. And then. 00:02:47
There you go. 00:02:51
My name is Becky Burridge. I live over on Russell Street. 00:02:55
And I'm here to ask you to vote for in favor of the landscaping. 00:02:59
Regulations, Ordinance. That's being changed hopefully. 00:03:04
We feel my husband and I feel like it would be a really good thing if we could adopt the new Central Valley. 00:03:09
Water Conservancy District guidelines for landscaping. 00:03:17
We think that this would give. 00:03:22
Individual homeowners like us and also organizations like our church and holiday. 00:03:25
A chance to modify our. 00:03:31
Landscape so we can be more water wise. 00:03:35
And give it give us an incentive to do that and it's actually would be about 2-2 dollars. 00:03:38
Running foot. So it's a significant amount of money that could. 00:03:46