Live stream not working in Chrome or Edge?

Transcript

Event transcript
I can start. 00:00:43
OK. 00:00:45
Then we will start. Welcome everybody. I am going to call to order the City Council meeting for the City of holiday on Thursday, 00:00:47
October 5th. 00:00:50
And we will start with the pledge if everybody please rise. 00:00:54
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:01:01
United States of America. 00:01:05
And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:01:07
Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:01:10
OK. Thank you everybody. Before we open public comment, let me just state that we have. 00:01:19
Two public hearings this evening. Items number four and five. 00:01:25
I'm assuming most of the people here are going to be here for item number. 00:01:30
Five, which is the Butternut Rezone public hearing? 00:01:34
So if you're here for either of those, if you'd Please wait till we open those public hearings to address the Council, we would 00:01:39
appreciate it. 00:01:43
If you are here to address the Council on other than those two public hearings. 00:01:47
We would ask you to come up to the podium and give us your name, address and this would be for the public hearings as well. Name, 00:01:53
address and try to keep your comments to 3 minutes or less unless you were speaking on behalf of a larger group. 00:02:00
So other than the two public hearings, public comment is now open. Anybody here to address the council? 00:02:06
On other than the two public hearings. 00:02:13
OK, there being none, we will close public comment and we will move to item number 4. 00:02:20
This will be a public hearing on proposed rezone for property located at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. from R&R 143 zone to an 00:02:27
R110 zone. 00:02:33
Counsel, this information is in your packet as well as the staff report and we're going to invite Kerry Marsh up to address the 00:02:40
Council, cover the staff report and field any questions that the council has before we open up the public hearing so. 00:02:47
Carry the podium is yours. 00:02:55
Great. Thank you, Mayor. So this proposed rezone is? 00:02:59
For properties at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. going from an R143 zone to an R110 zone, the two properties as they exist don't 00:03:04
conform to the R143 zone. Their lot size is smaller than one acre. 00:03:13
And the intent of the property owner is to. 00:03:23
The rezone enables them to move the lot line between neighbouring property that they own on Cottonwood Blvd. 00:03:27
So it will increase the size of the property on Cottonwood Blvd. And decrease the size of these two properties to about .4 acres 00:03:35
each. 00:03:40
And the. 00:03:45
They want to increase the size of the Cottonwood Blvd. Property because of a large accessory building that they have plans to 00:03:48
build there. They have a conditional use permit for that accessory building. 00:03:53
And want to increase some area behind it so that there's more of a buffer between the. 00:03:58
Between the properties. 00:04:03
Any questions on that that I can answer? 00:04:05
I got a couple of questions so. 00:04:09
There's a property immediately to the South. 00:04:12
On the same side of the street of Holiday Blvd. That looks like it's an even smaller, nonconforming lot. 00:04:15
Right. Are there other non conforming lots to the South or is this kind of the further reach of the of the non conforming? 00:04:21
Pieces. 00:04:27
I didn't look further South. It looked like that is likely the furthest reach of those nonconforming, but there is likely some 00:04:28
other properties in that R143 zone that are nonconforming that's fairly consistent in all of our zones. We sometimes end up with 00:04:35
parcels that are a little bit smaller that were that are legal but nonconforming. 00:04:42
Yeah. And thanks. And then the other question I had was so the, so the, the back piece of that of those two lots, the Holiday 00:04:49
Blvd. lots is the there's going to be a conveyance of those. 00:04:56
Lots to the. 00:05:03
Well, they all, they're all common owner, but to the property owners on Cottonwood Lane and then those lots will be combined, 00:05:05
right, So that that'll become. 00:05:09
A new like 1.5 acre lot, is that right? No, they're going to keep those as two separate parcels. So that's why they're wanting to 00:05:14
go down to the R110 zone so that they can, ohh, I see I got you. But the but the the lot on Cottonwood, Cottonwood Lane is going 00:05:21
to remain R143, yes. OK. Yep. Property size on that will increase to about an acre and 1/2. So it won't be able to be subdivided 00:05:27
even when it takes on more land. Great. Hey, thanks. 00:05:34
Any other questions? OK. 00:05:47
Questions from council. OK. Thanks, Carrie. 00:05:50
All right. With that then we are going to open the public hearing on this application. Well, I guess I should ask first, is the 00:05:55
applicant here? 00:05:59
OK. So we will open the public hearing. Is anybody here to address the council on this rezone application? 00:06:04
Somebody's just walking in. I'll bet they're not here for that either. 00:06:15
OK. With that then we are going to close this public hearing. Thank you. 00:06:19
Now item number 5 is a public hearing on proposed rezone for three properties located at. 00:06:24
4437 E Butternut Road 2475 E 4500 S and. 00:06:30
2485 E-40. 00:06:37
500 S from the R18 and R110 zones. 00:06:39
To an R28 zone. 00:06:43
Again, we have a pretty extensive. 00:06:47
Staff report in the packet that the Council has reviewed. We also received a summary of the Planning Commission. 00:06:52
Hearing on this with all the details that were included in the Planning Commission hearing. 00:07:00
And I have some comments, but I think and questions but I think I'm going to. 00:07:07
Reserve all that until we hear the staff report on this and then I would encourage. 00:07:12
Let me just say that for the audience that's here's typically we'll get a staff report, I have a few questions, we'll open the 00:07:18
public hearing, sometimes we'll close, sometimes we won't. And then you'll notice on our agenda that that we have a follow up 00:07:23
where we discussed these public hearings. 00:07:28
I'm going to try to extend what we cover publicly. 00:07:36
To get all those questions out in the open, so you can hear what the council has to say at this point. So I don't take up too much 00:07:40
of your time. But having said that, we still will have follow-up discussion on this in the work session. 00:07:47
But it may be. 00:07:54
We'll see how this goes right here. If I feel like we get it all out, then we I may readjust our work session agenda and move it 00:07:57
to the front. So I don't keep any everybody. If it looks like there's still a lot of discussion to be had after that, I hope I'm 00:08:02
not confusing you. I'll leave it as agenda and it might be. 00:08:08
8:00 before we get to that, if that makes sense so. 00:08:14
Carrie, let's start with your review of the staff report and then I'm going to encourage our council to. 00:08:18
To start asking questions that they have regarding this application which is a little bit more complicated than the previous one. 00:08:25
Great. Thank you, Mayor. So this proposal of a rezone as mentioned on the three properties, 4437 S, Butternut 2475 E. 00:08:37
And 2485 E both on 45th South. 00:08:48
Um. 00:08:51
Three separate property owners that joined this application together to rezone to an R2 zone. 00:08:52
The. 00:09:01
Main reasons for staff support on this one is that in the General Plan this area along 45th South. 00:09:03
In a transit corridor is supported to be rezoned to. 00:09:11
Multifamily transitional, which includes an R28 zone. 00:09:18
There's multiple zones in that multifamily transitional, including R210R28. 00:09:22
I think R1. 00:09:29
For as well. 00:09:31
With selecting the R28 zone, staff felt that that was the enabled the best use of each individual property based off of those size 00:09:34
the sizes of the existing properties. 00:09:40
That would. 00:09:47
Create. 00:09:48
The units that the that the applicants are desiring to to create on their own property. It's not an application that's coming from 00:09:53
a developer. The parcels are not being combined together, so they'll retain and separate ownership, so they're limited just by the 00:09:58
size of their own property. 00:10:03
The middle property is. Let's see. We'll start on the first property, which is on Butternut. It's on the corner. 00:10:10
It is .18 acres and underneath it is. 00:10:17
Less than 8000 square feet to meet requirements to have two units on that property. It does not. 00:10:23
Meet those requirements. So that property would not be able to have two rentable units on that. 00:10:31
And so the R2 zone effectively doesn't. 00:10:38
Enable them to use. 00:10:42
The property that they have for more than just a single family. 00:10:45
There's a possibility with that R2 zone if they were to pick up. 00:10:49
Some additional land or moving lot lines between neighbors that they could possibly create a a second unit. 00:10:54
Or use a second unit in that R2 zone, or utilize the R2 zone. 00:11:02
But as it is, yeah. 00:11:07
So I'm a little confused in that. 00:11:10
Although the Planning Commission thought one way, the staff recommendation was positive and yet you know you're saying that but it 00:11:12
wouldn't comply. 00:11:16
So I'm confused how there could be a recommendation to proceed from the staff. 00:11:21
When they don't meet the parameters to. 00:11:26
To meet to do that. 00:11:31
Help me understand that. Sure. Incongruence there. Yeah. So the the R2 zone, you can still have a single family dwelling on it, 00:11:34
so. 00:11:39
That property, just because of its size, would only be able to have one unit on it. 00:11:44
If they were to adjust the property size, then they could. Additionally, they could potentially have. 00:11:49
More than one unit, but it would require. 00:11:55
Property size adjustment. 00:11:58
So you can have single units, like an individual unit in an R2 zone that R2 zone. 00:12:00
You don't have without additional property. 00:12:08
Nothing really can be accomplished on that one, right? 00:12:10
And you were talking about the one on the West End of the Yes, Yep, that's on the corner of Butternut and 40. 00:12:14
Whatever, this side rows 4430 I think. 00:12:22
So R2 zone. 00:12:27
Maybe a potential future use? 00:12:29
The property owner kind of instigated the application and brought in the neighbors that are interested in the R2 zone as well. 00:12:32
Staff saw it as a potential for a future opportunity if there was some agreements between property owners. 00:12:42
But as it stands that it that it would not. 00:12:51
It would not be applicable to have two units. 00:12:56
On the property. 00:12:58
So just to be clear. 00:13:00
The property owner said that they wanted to rent the Adu that's under their garage. 00:13:02
They can do that without changing the zone, correct? 00:13:07
With our current code, external which that Adu is an external unit. 00:13:11
They can't rent the external AU unless their property is twice the minimum lot size in this so that So they can't, even though 00:13:18
it's attached to their garage that it's not attached to the house at all. The garage isn't attached to the house, right? OK, so 00:13:25
external Edu's can't be rented unless the lot is twice the minimum lot size in the zone. 00:13:33
So they would need a. 00:13:41
16,000 square foot lot to rent an external Edu Ohh. This don't change. Doesn't affect that fact, no. 00:13:43
So I think that I know that that corner property probably has the most questions on it. 00:13:51
In the end, the property owner said Ohh. You know, this doesn't really benefit me, but. 00:13:57
You know, maybe if things move in the future there's. I mean, he could create 2 units in the existing house if he created a 00:14:01
separation like between a basement and an upstairs, but. 00:14:07
Not a lot of interest in doing that. 00:14:14
As is so it creates an opportunity in the future by by rezoning it to R2. But as it stands, he's the lot. Size only qualifies it 00:14:16
for one. When you say it creates an opportunity in the future, tell me what you mean by that. 00:14:23
And that would be reliant on picking up additional property. So if he if he could reach an agreement with his neighbors to expand 00:14:30
the size of his lot, yeah. 00:14:35
Yes. 00:14:39
He would need 8000 square feet, a lot size to have an attached. 00:14:40
Two attached units. 00:14:45
And we have 10,010 thousand for two detached units. 00:14:48
8000 for two attached units and those would both be rentable rather than an Adu, right? Situation right? Thank you. 00:14:52
And I can go into the other two properties. Is there any questions on those or should we run through those as well? 00:15:01
OK. And the middle property is .41 acres and this one is? 00:15:08
Most applicable with the unclaimed density that's mentioned in the General Plan at .41 acres in an R110 zone. This property can't 00:15:15
be subdivided and. 00:15:20
You can't have any additional units placed on it because it is a single family zone. 00:15:26
So you have a large property that is limited to just a single family. Use. 00:15:31
Other than the internal AU. 00:15:36
Right. 00:15:39
There can be an Adu, just not a detached Adu, right? And that one, they could have a detached. Well, no, they can't have a 00:15:40
detached DU on that one either. That's rentable because they don't have twice the. 00:15:46
Lot size. 00:15:52
Or have a gram, yeah. 00:15:54
So they would they could do an internal Adu that would be rentable, but not an external. 00:15:56
And there's the with the R2 zone they could potentially add, I think I detailed. 00:16:05
3 detached units. 00:16:12
Or they could do 2. 00:16:15
Buildings with two units in each, so two structures with two units each. 00:16:17
Or three separate structures. 00:16:23
Um. 00:16:26
They already have an existing house on the property. I they don't. I'm not sure what their intention is with either keeping that 00:16:27
house or if they want to split it into an attached unit. 00:16:32
But they would like to add at least one detached unit at this point just for family. 00:16:39
But with an R2 zone, they could make that so it's rentable, or it would also be purchasable in the future. 00:16:46
That is another advantage with the R2 zone is that the creation of units can be split out into separate ownership. 00:16:53
So you'd have smaller units that would then in the future could be sold into separate ownership. 00:17:01
So, and especially with doing the the detached units, you're creating smaller. 00:17:10
Single family dwelling units that are detached and separate on the property. 00:17:15
Any questions on that one? 00:17:21
OK. 00:17:25
And the third property? It's on the corner of Wander Lane and the Side Street. 00:17:25
That one is .26 acres. 00:17:31
Right now they I same situation, they could build an external AU but. 00:17:34
Also would not be rentable. 00:17:40
With rezoning to R2, they could build a separate detached unit. 00:17:44
They weren't interested in doing an attached unit. They want to do a separate detached unit, same thing at the current time to use 00:17:49
that for family. 00:17:54
But in the future, there's that ownership potential where that could be divided out and have separate ownership. 00:18:00
Any questions on that one? 00:18:08
And. 00:18:12
Looking to at the historical area of our two zones, there's. 00:18:14
In the packet there was a map that showed existing duplexes. 00:18:19
And that's in our general plan showing the existing. 00:18:25
Where duplexes are located in the existing land uses. 00:18:29
You can see areas where there are duplexes. There's some on Russell on the east side. They're in a single family zone, but they 00:18:32
are a legal nonconforming duplex. So historically duplexes were created in the neighborhood. 00:18:40
The middle property owner had a duplex originally, probably back in the 60s or 50s when the house was built. 00:18:49
And then as Salt Lake County changed zoning and then when it was incorporated into holiday. 00:18:55
That duplex use I think was discontinued at some point and so they don't have a legal. 00:19:02
Nonconforming duplex. 00:19:08
But it was. 00:19:10
Potentially, probably a duplex. 00:19:12
In the past. 00:19:14
So there's a lot of history of duplexes being allowed in the in the area, there's a lot of duplexes. 00:19:15
In the surrounding neighborhood because they were permitted at one point from Salt Lake County. 00:19:20
So right now we have a lot of non or legal nonconforming duplexes. 00:19:25
That are. 00:19:30
On side streets or interspersed kind of in the neighborhood immediately to the South. 00:19:31
Immediately to the South across 23rd or what are you counting as? Immediately to the South? Across 45th? South? 00:19:37
Ohh okay across 40 the South. 00:19:45
Yeah, so. 00:19:47
On Russell Rd. there's some on the east side. Those are in a single family zone currently, but they are duplexes that were created 00:19:49
under Salt Lake County zoning. 00:19:54
And with. 00:19:59
That major arterial on 45th South, do you? 00:20:00
Do you consider that part of the same neighborhood? 00:20:04
Historically, so. 00:20:08
There's a map in the staff report that showed R2 zone on that north side of 45th South. 00:20:10
That was changed in the 60s to be an R1 zone. 00:20:16
So. 00:20:20
Similar neighborhoods. 00:20:21
I would consider them to be very similar. 00:20:23
Divided by a main arterial, but there was a lot of similar building patterns in those two neighborhoods. 00:20:26
But does that include duplexes or R twos or twin homes nonconforming on the north side of 45th on the north side? 00:20:33
On the existing, it looks like a lot of those uses weren't continued. 00:20:42
I think there were probably larger properties that got redeveloped into single family homes. Walking through that neighborhood, 00:20:47
I've seen mostly single family homes on large properties. 00:20:51
The middle. 00:20:59
The middle. 00:21:03
The middle home. 00:21:05
The existing structure was a duplex or as the structure changed. 00:21:07
The existing home was a duplex, so the property owner said that there's, you know, framing in there, that it was a duplex when he 00:21:11
purchased the property. The previous property owner said, you know, this was a duplex before. 00:21:17
It's just that it was converted to a single family at some point so lost any non conforming status that do we know what that was. 00:21:24
I don't the property owner may know, but I'm not sure when it was switched over. 00:21:32
Are there any other questions on this one too we can talk about the general plan or kind of the transit corridor. That's actually 00:21:42
what I was curious, could you give a little bit of background on the general plan and then this what the council did in 2020, Do 00:21:47
you know the history and the rationale was so close on 45th and 2030 E where they're where they went from? 00:21:53
R210 to R110. Do you happen to know the context of what why that was done? 00:22:00
Yes, so the. 00:22:04
There was two properties on Butternut Rd. that. 00:22:08
They were R110, I think. 00:22:13
The property owner wanted to. 00:22:17
Was the corner property they wanted to rezone to an R2. 00:22:21
Ohh, let's see, where was it the reverse back in 2014? OK, so. 00:22:26
When Ivory bought it in 2020 and they rezoned, so they bought 2 properties. 00:22:30
Rezoned so that they could get a smaller lot size. 00:22:36
And that enabled them to put three houses on 2 on what was originally two properties. 00:22:39
So they combined two properties. 00:22:45
Rezone to R18. 00:22:48
And then divided it into 3. 00:22:50
OK, because I was thinking that the staff report showed that the 2020 change was a. 00:22:53
Was a change. 00:22:58
From R210, excuse me, yeah, probably R18. 00:23:00
Or R110 to R18. 00:23:04
OK. So they had a 10,000 square foot lot minimum size with the combination of the two parcels they needed to go down to R18 to. 00:23:08
Get 3, three. OK. Thank you Kerry. I have, I just have one question if you. 00:23:17
If you could just in. 00:23:22
Pretty simple terms summarize. 00:23:24
Why the staff report is recommending something different than the Planning Commission? 00:23:27
Planning Commission came down with a negative recommendation, and anyway, so if you could just explain the rationale for a staff 00:23:34
recommendation, that's pretty unusual staff recommendation. 00:23:39
Recommending something different than the Planning Commission. 00:23:45
Staff recommendation was made based off of the main points of following the general plan where it identifies areas. 00:23:49
Close to that transit corridor of 45th South as an area to rezone to medium density residential or an R2 zone. 00:23:56
So that's one main point. The 2nd is moderate income housing goals. 00:24:06
Rezoning is a. 00:24:11
Best practice to Enable Affordable Housing That's in Kim Gardner Housing Affordability Reports, So. 00:24:14
If. 00:24:21
When we're looking at the general plan and looking at places where we can enable some affordable housing or you know, that's the 00:24:22
area that we're looking at. 00:24:27
Although it doesn't fall directly onto 45th South, rezoning typically involves some minor arterial roads as well. Off of Highland 00:24:32
Drive, you know you'll have a a road that comes down that. 00:24:38
Accesses are two properties, or. 00:24:44
RM properties. 00:24:48
So a lot of times those razones don't fall right on the on the main road, but they'll involve some minor roads. 00:24:50
Less usual to see. Kind of a single parcel or two. 00:24:59
Where the property owners were coming and asking for the rezone on this one. 00:25:05
You know they. 00:25:10
They would like to utilize the property themselves. It's not a developer that's coming into. 00:25:11
To combine them all and create a larger development. 00:25:16
So it's just property owners who would like to have. 00:25:20
Another unit or two? 00:25:23
Umm. 00:25:24
The. 00:25:26
But the main points were being the the General Plan and moderate income housing goals. 00:25:27
Planning commissions main finding was. 00:25:33
Concern for pedestrian safety and bike safety. There's a lot of pedestrian use on that narrow roadway. 00:25:37
There is a walkway that goes through the park. 00:25:45
So is pedestrian safety addressed through utilizing some of the other safety mechanisms that are in place? 00:25:49
The city engineers stated that their. 00:25:57
The increase in traffic from. 00:26:00
Vehicles accessing. 00:26:02
Three to five more units would be negligible. 00:26:04
So we. 00:26:08
Staff side not seeing the impact on safety or that it would be manageable. Planning Commission disagreed and thought that the. 00:26:09
That the safety of. 00:26:16
The surrounding neighborhood. 00:26:19
Using this narrow Rd. for pedestrian bicycle access would be hindered by. 00:26:21
The additional units. 00:26:25
Thank you. 00:26:28
Why? 00:26:29
I mean. 00:26:30
Isn't very wide and it's wider. 00:26:32
For example, if. 00:26:36
A garbage truck was picking up garbage cans along that street. 00:26:37
With another car being able to get around. 00:26:40
No, that road is. When I measured it on an aerial view on the county assessor site, it was 20 feet. 00:26:43
I think that the property owner measured it at about 18 feet, so it is really narrow on the park side. There is no parking that's 00:26:50
allowed. 00:26:54
The property owners property is described up to the edge of the asphalt. 00:27:00
So there are some parking areas that are on the north side, but they're. 00:27:05
Created by the property owners. 00:27:10
On private property. 00:27:12
So sometimes cars will park on private property size side thinking that it is. 00:27:14
A public Rd. but it's. 00:27:19
Owned by the private property owner. 00:27:20
One thing I think I'd like to. 00:27:24
To discuss with the council at some point is, as you recall, very recently the earth shifted beneath our feet from the legislature 00:27:27
with regard to internal AD use. 00:27:32
And we haven't really assessed how the general plan should be impacted as a result of that new. 00:27:37
Force of gravity in the community. 00:27:45
And so though I I I understand staff is is more constrained. 00:27:48
To make their assessments based on the existing general plan. 00:27:54
We haven't really. 00:27:58
Put back into the General Plan or weighed back into the General Plan. 00:28:01
The impact of that? 00:28:05
Gravitational shift. 00:28:07
And so that also explains kind of the difference between staff and Planning Commission, plus new affordable housing mandates. 00:28:10
Right. So, so, yeah, there's a couple of legislative mandates that we really haven't. 00:28:18
Folded into the general right, right. So that may be something we want to tackle or have the staff start to tackle is. 00:28:23
I mean, we don't want to do it in a way that doesn't mess us up with the mandates that we're getting. 00:28:32
And the credit we're going to need to receive for affordable housing with the legislature, but nonetheless we talk about. 00:28:37
Affordable housing and applications that are compared to the language in the Journal plan, well, the General Plan really hasn't. 00:28:44
Taken into consideration. 00:28:53
The more recent mandate we've had placed upon us, but that should be part of our calculus now. 00:28:55
With regard to. 00:29:02
You know justifications for rezone. 00:29:04
And part of that process could also be as we're getting more experience with ADUS generally because it hasn't been. 00:29:06
You know, 80s haven't been a major thing until more recently. 00:29:13
And you know, we've taken our first swipe at how do we define Adus, particularly internal Adus. 00:29:18
Versus externally to use. 00:29:24
We've had some rather. 00:29:27
At one time? Just arbitrary. 00:29:31
Factors for when you can have an external Adu. First there was it could only be half an acre or above. 00:29:36
And then we we we moderated to be either half an acre or twice the size of the lot size within the. 00:29:41
The parameter for like an R110, if you have 20 you can you can do an external Adu so you don't have to subdivide. 00:29:51
But we could also look at other. 00:29:58
Other possibilities for? 00:30:00
You know, if you have a detached garage and you're not expanding your footprint. 00:30:02
You know can you have an Adu within that sort of footprint and not have it considered an externally. So I don't I think those are 00:30:07
things we can look at. 00:30:11
That we can also get credit. 00:30:16
For affordable housing. 00:30:19
But at the same time not take a sledgehammer to something that could maybe use a screwdriver. 00:30:21
When we're talking about getting affordable housing and because because you know, razones are a heavy lift. 00:30:27
And perhaps we can help our citizens kind of get what they want using a little teeny screwdriver instead of a sledgehammer. 00:30:32
But that's my two cents. I think the the primary point being we probably need to review our general plan language for. 00:30:41
You know the general plan terms and then what the appropriate zones? 00:30:51
Would be for the not changing the objectives, but recognizing now in the suggested zones that we now have R ones that are all now 00:30:55
essentially R twos now. 00:31:00
And. 00:31:07
So that's my $0.02. 00:31:08
I have a quick note to you on another main difference with R2 versus an external audio. 00:31:11
External Adu, since they aren't accessory building can be built a lot closer to the property line. So sometimes just depending on 00:31:18
lot size, those could be 5 to 10 feet away from the property line. R2 then has you know 20 foot setbacks, so. 00:31:26
Are to having those regulations moves those buildings. 00:31:35
Or. 00:31:38
Created units inside the lot more so that they're not put on the outskirts of the lot, so maybe less impact on neighbors by 00:31:39
requiring those units to be pulled in. 00:31:45
Yeah, I'm going to jump in here because. 00:31:52
When I saw this application in the packet, I sensed that there might be a lot of. 00:31:55
Conversation and debate because. 00:32:00
Regardless of what you might see on next door or whatever you read. 00:32:03
This council gets pretty serious when people ask for more density in a rezone. We have pretty thoughtful debates about it, and you 00:32:08
can see that we're not done. 00:32:12
And I think we're going to have a lot more in the work session and I was hoping maybe. 00:32:17
We would work our way into. 00:32:21
Some clarity, mostly out of respect for all of you that are here to hear this so you didn't have to stay for the work session if 00:32:25
you want to, but I'm afraid. 00:32:29
That might be the case. 00:32:34
My sense is on this when I mean what I'm hearing is. 00:32:36
Staff is really looking at this. 00:32:41
As a data-driven recommendation to this Council saying. 00:32:44
Here's the application. Here's what the general plan says. Here's what the traffic data says. 00:32:49
We don't have any reasonable reason not to recommend. I don't want to put words in your mouth carrying John any reasonable. 00:32:55
Justification for not recommending this rezone based on what we have put in our own general plan and what the traffic engineers 00:33:04
are telling us. 00:33:08
And I think. 00:33:13
You know, from my personal standpoint. 00:33:14
I look at this as the entries into this rezone application do not penetrate the neighborhood. In my mind. They come in and then 00:33:17
they go right onto 4500 S to enter the two lots to the east and and and actually to lot to the West because they have to come on 00:33:22
to. 00:33:27
Make a right on to 45 to go into the garage, right so all three of those enter off of that short stretch off of butternut part so 00:33:33
they don't penetrate the neighborhood. 00:33:39
That. 00:33:45
A question I have and then the other one is be on. 00:33:46
And I'm not asking to answer this. I'm just saying this is what I'm going to wrestle with and I think this council will wrestle 00:33:50
with is. 00:33:52
There are 4. 00:33:56
Items that that the staff puts in front of us in terms of justifying this or what we should think about. 00:33:58
The General Plan, which I think it clearly meets the objectives of the General Plan. 00:34:05
And see does it adversely affect the budding properties? Somebody have to explain how it would to me. 00:34:09
Does it have adequate facilities? It doesn't. 00:34:17
In my mind, there's no justification to say it's going to. 00:34:20
To tax our public infrastructure, to service the properties. 00:34:23
So it comes down to B, which is I think, what the. 00:34:27
What the Planning Commission was really doing is blending in. 00:34:31
Public input into that data. 00:34:36
And B says whether the proposed amendment is harmonious with the overall character of existing development in the vicinity of the 00:34:39
subject property, which is I'm which I'm sure is what I'm going to hear during the public hearing, and that's what I need to be 00:34:44
convinced of. So. 00:34:49
That's a long winded way of saying. 00:34:55
You're gonna hear for those that want to stay. 00:34:57
Will be discussing this again in the work session. 00:35:01
So. 00:35:04
Thanks, Kerry. Yeah, any other questions or? 00:35:06
Yes, there will be. 00:35:08
OK. If it's if it's OK with the council, we've got another presentation and a couple of. 00:35:12
Items, we got to vote before we get to the work session and then I'll just tell you right now we've got a pretty long presentation 00:35:19
from Unified Police in the work session. 00:35:23
And I've assume we'll get to more discussion on this. 00:35:28
In the work session, my best estimate is probably. 00:35:32
8:00-ish, I'm sorry, but that's the best we can do. We're trying to be as respectful as possible. That was a long conversation 00:35:36
that we usually don't have during a regular session. Mayor just and it is if for those that wanted to to, it is broadcast live 00:35:43
also so they could return home and watch it and or listen in remotely. Is that correct? That's right, yeah. 00:35:50
OK, so with that. 00:35:58
I'm going to open up the public hearing on this rezone application. Is the are the applicants here? 00:36:02
Why don't we hear from the applicant first And then I'm going to read into the public record some comments we've got from people 00:36:11
online and then we'll start asking those that want to address the council to come up. So again, name and address please. 00:36:17
My name is Dan Kemp. I'm the property owner at 4437 Butternut. 00:36:23
And I know the other property owner on the middle lot is here as well. 00:36:28
So just to give you a little bit of background because we're all confused and I was too because I purchased the property with some 00:36:32
misunderstanding. So the property is an 8000 square foot lot or was wouldn't it I guess was built with ivory. They stole a short 00:36:40
small little piece and so it became 7000. 00:36:48
900 or something like that. 00:36:57
So that they could do the sidewalk. So it's not even really quite 8000, but. 00:36:59
I'm a retired military and I'd like to do things by the book and with the rules. And so I I before I purchased the home, I 00:37:06
contacted the city to ask if I could rent out the the DU under the garage because I was interested in doing that. If I purchased 00:37:11
it, I was told I could. 00:37:17
Because it was on 45 zero S but in reality when I purchased it and then went in to put in my request for a business application, 00:37:23
it was told to me that I couldn't because it's not the 66 foot wide 45th South and so it was impossible. 00:37:31
So being the. 00:37:40
Citizen I am, I wanted to figure out how it could be done properly. 00:37:43
And with in accordance with the city laws. So I investigated the property and thought maybe the our two situation might be the 00:37:46
answer. 00:37:51
And I thought that it was so we. 00:37:56
With myself with the other two. 00:38:00
Properties to the east decided to go ahead and put in a request for the R2 zone change. 00:38:02
We had a meeting. We determined that since my lot was. 00:38:07
100 feet shy or so of 8000 square feet that it used to have that I would not be able to do it with an R2, but that I could maybe 00:38:14
buy 100 feet, 150 feet of property from my neighbor and. 00:38:21
Achieve it that way, but unfortunately. 00:38:28
That actually was not the case either, because my unit is not attached, it's detached. So after I. 00:38:31
Put forth the request and. 00:38:38
Paid a bunch of money to actually put in for their request. I found out subsequent later that it was actually not possible still. 00:38:40
So as is, the only way I can use the Adu is to. 00:38:47
Have someone from my family live there, like see my brother or something like that, which is interesting and interesting is 00:38:51
interesting because I mean if I rented it to a student. 00:38:56
There's really no change in how many people are living there, what cars are there or anything, but it just means that I can't rent 00:39:01
it. I can't utilize my property like I'd like to. 00:39:05
Which is unfortunate, so. 00:39:09
That's the history behind it. I know that my neighbors to the east would still like the flexibility of an R2 situation. I 00:39:12
unfortunately would not be able to buy 2000 square feet off of our neighbors a lot because at that point they're a lot would be 00:39:18
too small to do what they want to do. So unfortunately, I'm personally in a situation where I can't utilize my property like I'd 00:39:24
like to, which is a little disappointing. We're very disappointing. But you know, you talked about some of the ways to maybe 00:39:30
address that. 00:39:36
Maybe using a screwdriver versus a hammer? 00:39:42
And there is, you know, like you mentioned. 00:39:45
The fact that there's all the affordable housing movements and the desire to have AU's available. 00:39:49
I think you've seen. 00:39:55
Most of you are familiar with my property. 00:39:56
And I think it could be well said that. 00:39:58
It's a very. 00:40:01
Nice situation. It doesn't seem like the lots too small. the AU could provide some affordable housing, but it's all based on the 00:40:03
laws and the city code. 00:40:08
So no matter what happens today with the R2 situation, whether it's approved or not, because I know that the other applicants on 00:40:14
the application still likes to approve. 00:40:20
I would like to ask you to ask the city to look at. 00:40:26
Changing the text. 00:40:31
On our general plan for what is and when an Edu can be used. 00:40:32
Because I was also talking with the city. 00:40:38
And I could. 00:40:40
Pay a lot of money again and ask for a text change on that and try to fight it. 00:40:42
And see if that could be changed. But they said that if you direct them to do that, they could actually just go ahead look at it, 00:40:47
see what would be smart and do it. My recommendation would be to remove the double the lot size because my lot is 8000. Even if it 00:40:54
was a 1.1 or 1.2 times the lot size, I still wouldn't be able to use my AU. So that's what I would propose, that maybe you asked 00:41:01
the city to task them to look at changing that burbage. 00:41:08
Maybe even just I I would say take out the lot size altogether and let one of the plans come before the city. At that point 00:41:15
evaluator evaluate whether it makes sense, if it's a good AU plan. 00:41:21
If it has good parking and go from there. So that's just one recommendation I'd like to make. 00:41:28
And then moving forward with our request tonight. 00:41:35
If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. I know that I've been definitely learning a lot about city code and learning 00:41:39
a lot about how city planning and City Council and meetings work, so. 00:41:45
I'm welcome. I'm open to any questions. 00:41:52
Any questions for the applicant? 00:41:55
OK. Thank you. Thanks. 00:41:58
And before I forget, just to be clear. 00:42:00
So you know, we we typically don't. 00:42:03
Vote on these matters at the same meeting. We take time to deliberate so but I do, I do totally anticipate this will be voted on 00:42:07
on October 19th at our next council meeting. It will be agenda for a vote but you won't see a vote tonight if anybody's waiting 00:42:13
for that. OK, thank you. Yeah no I was aware of that. I just wanted to also ask you to in in your deliberation and maybe make a 00:42:20
motion to investigate the verbiage for possible tax change for the AU so they could be utilized because. 00:42:27
From what I'm aware of now. 00:42:34
Because of the verbiage in the city code right now is so restrictive. It's really almost like saying we would like a use but no 00:42:36
one can do them because it's pretty impossible to double the lot size and really make it work. 00:42:42
Do do you? 00:42:49
Do you happen to know, are you referring to an external Edu when you talk about the Yes. OK, yeah, they want double the lot size. 00:42:51
So for example, to utilize my Edu properly under the city code, it would take a lot size of 16,000 square feet. 00:42:57
Which when you look at it with and you see my property and you see what it's there, it doesn't really make sense anyway, so. 00:43:05
So I was just hoping that that would be another recommendation that you would put forward. Yeah, that would really require a 00:43:13
motion, but I get what you're saying if you. 00:43:17
Request a text change. There's a fee associated with it. Where it comes from a council, then it's just direction to the council. 00:43:23
Look into it. 00:43:27
OK. Thank you. 00:43:32
Did the other applicant want to come on up please? 00:43:34
And again, just name and address please, in 3 minutes. My name is important. What's your tone? 00:43:41
43 Right up to the mic, Sir. 4387 Ashford Drive about over my ways of the property. I'm in the middle property. 00:43:47
And the reason we bought this two years ago is just for our children. 00:43:56
And we have three children and 1/2 right now living on the property. 00:44:01
Go to your view. 00:44:06
And then the other work at Lehigh, which is. 00:44:08
Against. 00:44:12
Well. 00:44:14
Rush hour coming to the Salt Lake, so he's happy about the board, happy easy to access the university and the work. 00:44:16
In. 00:44:23
That's all we want. We want to have additional. 00:44:24
A house. 00:44:28
Just for our children. 00:44:29
That that's all beginning of we want to have. We never want to learn to other people other than. 00:44:31
Because. 00:44:37
My my wife won. 00:44:38
Kid to stay close to us and then as you know, the housing is not. 00:44:41
Cheap anymore for them? 00:44:46
And we. 00:44:48
We feel our response we to support them and we can if we can do. 00:44:49
So that's all we. 00:44:54
Want to have? 00:44:55
And then in terms of traffic? 00:44:56
Understand this street Without these streets, more St. these three probably wouldn't can never get out. 00:44:59
So the priority of this small street is. 00:45:06
I understand that is is for for us so that we can get our go along to fortify and itself. 00:45:09
And understand the pedestrians start walking, people walking. I'm happy to see that, because yes. 00:45:16
It's a good exercise people do all the time evening all that, but. 00:45:22
We can do better on this street to provide the safety. 00:45:28
For pedestrian. 00:45:31
That never intended before. 00:45:32
Because this street in 10 basic to me, to my knowledge, from what I see for this probably be able to get out. 00:45:34
Because this part next to it. 00:45:42
Without this tree. 00:45:44
These three probably won't be able to get out and move on. 00:45:46
So that's. 00:45:50
Umm. 00:45:52
We either have this is 20 feet wide St. 00:45:53
That we either can have on the South side to have a sidewalk for kid. 00:45:59
For anyone walking from school because. 00:46:04
You still have enough. I don't know what's the width of the street legally. 00:46:06
So 12 feet. So you do have 8 feet, 4 feet of sidewalk you can do and. 00:46:11
Like you said, this street small. 00:46:18
And. 00:46:20
I don't know what is intent for two way two way car to go. 00:46:23
Around about, but you know. 00:46:28
To me is. 00:46:30
Same narrow and you can see the. 00:46:32
The loan on the. 00:46:35
Pot. 00:46:38
Getting deteriorated and then the sprinkler head got hit and you can see our damage there because the two car passed by Barry and 00:46:39
him. 00:46:43
Any space towards so the future you can either. 00:46:47
Make it 1 way. Discourage people that around neighborhood to come here. Take a shortcut to avoid fortifying the cell. 00:46:51
So. 00:46:59
All we want just one additional home for our kid. 00:47:02
And. 00:47:06
That's all we want. 00:47:06
Thank you. Thank you. 00:47:09
OK, with that I am going to open up the public hearing. 00:47:13
Before I invite people to the podium. 00:47:17
I want to read into the record. 00:47:20
Comments we've received via e-mail. 00:47:23
And I'll just remind, you know, certainly everybody is welcome to address the council, but you know, if if it's all going to be 00:47:26
the same comment, if somebody wants to speak on behalf of a group, that would be appreciated too. 00:47:32
All of the following have submitted comment via e-mail to the City Council. We've all received them. 00:47:39
Chris. 00:47:46
I apologize if I mispronounced Chris Brusso. 00:47:47
2392 E 45 Zero S Sarah and Tom Collins. 2461 Melanie Drive. Mark Crockett, no address. Alicia Durr 2413 E Butternut Circle, Lynn 00:47:52
Woodruff and Amanda Hales. Brittany Minuchin, all that I don't have an address on, but I assume we're in the vicinity. 00:48:03
Joan Momer Momer, 4634 Butternut Road, and Chris Tumor, 4405 S Briarwood Circle. All of these were submitted to the Council in 00:48:13
opposition to this application. 00:48:20
Ones that there were some that were in favor, but those were part, I believe, of the Planning Commission summary. 00:48:29
And not submitted for this public hearing. 00:48:35
So I have all of those on record as being in opposition to this application and are on the record for this particular meeting. The 00:48:38
public hearing is open and as a reminder, please state your name and address and try to keep it to 3 minutes or less unless you 00:48:44
are speaking on behalf of a larger group, in which case take 5 minutes. 00:48:51
Come on up. 00:48:58
Hi, my name is Alicia Durr. I'm at 2413 E Butternut Circle. 00:49:04
Umm. 00:49:09
In the General Plan, there are four goals that I know you're all aware of. 00:49:11
I don't believe this rezone fits any of those goals. The first one to maintain the established pattern of development of the city, 00:49:16
which is 45th South. This is not 45th. 00:49:21
I understand increasing density on 23rd, 45th. 00:49:26
But as we've stated, it's on a small St. 00:49:30
This is a street that connects. 00:49:33
Our lower neighborhood to the upper neighborhood. So this is a very important lane that we use to drive to access wander safely 00:49:35
without having to pull out on the 45th, make a left. 00:49:42
And then another left. 00:49:48
Where that that crossing of Wander on 45th is already a pretty unsafe place. 00:49:50
So I appreciate having this lane to be able to access Wonder lane safely. 00:49:57
But it is problematic and I. 00:50:01
Even though I know that they stated that the street engineer or the traffic engineer. 00:50:04
Said it wouldn't have an impact. 00:50:09
For already a problematic St. 00:50:11
It would impact and and I know that the owners, current owners. 00:50:14
Have a vision. 00:50:19
If it is changed to an art tone that R2 that does open it up if they were to sell it to be able to put. 00:50:22
You know, right now there's. 00:50:29
123 units. 00:50:31
Promote understand from the Planning Commission meeting 4 units on the middle and two on the end. 00:50:33
The other question that I had is if. 00:50:39
If it is legal. 00:50:42
As I understand, for Dan to be able to have his family live there in that accessory dwelling. 00:50:43
And that's the use that the current owners have stated for building something for their family. 00:50:49
I'm wondering why the need for changing the R2 zoning if that's all that they want to do is to be able to house their own family 00:50:56
on those lots already. 00:51:01
So my concern is. 00:51:05
Changing the R2 does open it up to other development in which you could subdivide it even more. 00:51:07
Um. 00:51:14
The third thing in the General Plan does say that retaining the natural character of the city and its neighborhoods. 00:51:15
There are no R2 properties nor north of 45th South. 00:51:22
And I would say it feels like a very different neighborhood. I think that was a good point on the north side of 45th versus the 00:51:27
South side of 45th. 00:51:31
Even the new development happening on 23rd of the corner of 23rd and 45th is an R18 zone. 00:51:36
And my question is if ivory already came in and we already fulfilled? 00:51:43
The mandate of the general plan to be able to increase density. 00:51:48
There were those three lots that were changed to an R18 zone just three years ago. 00:51:52
So why are we revisiting this so soon afterward? To be able to accommodate. 00:51:57
A proper a development that with an AU that or you know with the apartment underneath. 00:52:02
That shouldn't have been built been built that way in the 1st place since it was not built to code, but we already did accommodate 00:52:08
them to increase density and go from an R110 zone to an R18 zone in order to build those 3 new properties along Butternut Rd. 00:52:15
Um, the other thing that the city planner. 00:52:23
Said with the the middle property. The Squire family lived in that middle property for the past 50 years. 00:52:27
And it wasn't a duplex. 00:52:33
The Square family lived there and had, you know, their garden on the scene, so there isn't a history of duplexes in this 00:52:37
neighborhood. 00:52:40
Um. 00:52:44
Let me just. 00:52:46
If there was anything else. 00:52:48
The last concern that I do have is with the parking. 00:52:54
Because that is such a narrow St. and you put that many units on. 00:52:58
On the corner property with the apartment underneath, there is no additional parking for someone to park. 00:53:02
He's he said before that he wants someone to park on the right side, but there's no way to park on the right side of that driveway 00:53:08
without blocking. 00:53:11
The garage. 00:53:15
So you're unable to get two cars into that garage if you have someone designated parking over there. 00:53:16
And and as you increase that and you have most people have two cars per unit. 00:53:21
Having that much, I I'm very concerned about how do you fit two cars with that many units where there is no street parking there? 00:53:27
I understand increased density on a wide Rd. of 65 feet, right? But we went out and measured. 00:53:35
We measured 16 to 17 feet when we went out with our. 00:53:42
To measure what that tree is. So it is small. 00:53:47
There would be no additional parking unless they. 00:53:50
They were to spill over onto Wander Lane. 00:53:53
Or over onto Betternet where it's a a kid heavy neighborhood and. 00:53:56
And I'm. 00:54:02
You know, I wanted to keep it really safe and keep the character of our neighborhood, so thank you for your time. 00:54:03
Thank you. 00:54:08
Anybody else? 00:54:17
Ben Butler. 00:54:26
I live at 2419 E Butternut Circle. 00:54:27
And I'd like to say I'm opposed to this. 00:54:31
I think that. 00:54:34
In addition to there being a parking problem, and then it's against the character of the neighborhood. 00:54:36
I think. 00:54:42
Changing this to R2 creates a very complex pattern of ownership. 00:54:43
We're going from three current owners to potentially 6-7 current owners if it were R2 and fully. 00:54:48
Developed. 00:54:56
I think what these properties owners are asking for is a very clear example of. 00:54:58
Why your Adu rules? 00:55:04
In this town are. 00:55:07
They make no sense. 00:55:09
I don't understand why you would choose to have an Adu. 00:55:11
That required. 00:55:15
Wide a double lot would be a requirement for an Adu that doesn't. 00:55:17
Why wouldn't you just subdivide the lot? 00:55:21
It doesn't make sense. It doesn't. 00:55:24
Helped to achieve the goal of. 00:55:26
Providing low cost housing. 00:55:29
And. 00:55:31
You know, owners supervised. 00:55:33
Rentals. 00:55:35
Does anybody know the history on that? 00:55:38
No, just just so you know, we don't typically. 00:55:41
Get in back and forth during public comment. 00:55:44
This is just your opportunity to address your council, and if you've got an opinion on that, we're happy to take it. But we're 00:55:47
not. We don't get into. 00:55:51
Back and forth debates, OK, during during public hearing. That I think, is a very important question. 00:55:54
That's. 00:56:01
This makes very apparent. 00:56:02
Thank you. 00:56:04
Thank you. 00:56:05
Yeah, it's going to stay open. So if you, you know, just come on up when you're ready, if you want to address the council and when 00:56:07
we don't have anybody else, we'll close the public hearing. 00:56:11
OK. 00:56:22
So given there's no more public comment on this particular rezone, we're going to close the public hearing. 00:56:25
And. 00:56:32
Yes, Sir. 00:56:34
A little bit. 00:56:38
No, we don't really get into a back and forth rebuttal. I the. 00:56:39
I'll just say that the Council's pretty familiar with this issue. 00:56:44
And if we have other issues, or if we have other questions between now and the work session and the time we actually vote this, I 00:56:49
can guarantee you they'll clarify their position before they take a vote. 00:56:55
So I'll just remind everybody that we will be addressing this again and you can hear it. You can stay here if you would like. 00:57:02
But also as council member Brewer said, if you want to log on, where would they go for that? Stephanie, just under the city 00:57:10
website? 00:57:13
That's an agenda. 00:57:19
If you want to. 00:57:21
Listen to it at home. If you don't want to stay, that's fine too, but this will all be an open discussion that we'll have. 00:57:22
Amongst the Council and then it will be on the agenda on the 19th for a vote and. 00:57:28
I thank everybody for coming. So public hearing is closed. 00:57:37
All right. 00:57:40
So we are moving on now to item number six, which is the I 215 shared use path and we have representatives from. 00:57:41
Orox engineers here to review this with the council and it's in your packet. 00:57:48
Thank you. Good evening Mayor and Council members. Thank you for having us back. We always love coming to present to the city 00:57:53
here. I will try and go quickly. You have a lengthy agenda and work session ahead of you it sounds like. 00:57:59
I am going to give you an overview of the I 215 Shared Use Path feasibility study. It rolls off the tongue. 00:58:06
This was a very high level study that the city moved forward with utilizing a grant from the Wasatch Front Regional Council to 00:58:13
look at a very high level what some of the opportunities were for creating a grade separated walking and biking pathway adjacent 00:58:20
to 2:15 and some of you dots right of way that is not currently being utilized. 00:58:27
Stephanie gave me all the power here. 00:58:35
What should I be pointing it at? 00:58:40
We can see that one. 00:58:43
Ohh, there we go. OK. 00:58:48
All right. So this was a very quick study. As I mentioned, we launched it this summer. 00:58:50
And we did kind of a quick burn of collecting some existing data, looking at adopted plans, community goals. We met with 00:58:55
stakeholders three times over the summer and into the fall to talk about kind of the vision for active transportation in this 00:59:01
area. What we were trying to connect into that included adjacent cities, it included UDOT, it included various members of the 00:59:06
public. 00:59:11
And the Wasatch Front Regional Council, we did a public survey as well and so we have some results to share with you for that too. 00:59:17
Maybe. 00:59:34
Sorry. 00:59:45
You're gonna have to help me. 00:59:46
No problem. 00:59:48
There we go. So this is the study area we looked at this orange line. Here is the alignment that's between 2:15 and the noise 00:59:50
walls and. 00:59:54
The private property owners. This is the part of 215 that it extends from Canuteson Park. 00:59:59
To Highland Drive. 01:00:05
Next slide please. 01:00:09
So this. 01:00:11
Pathway alignment was born out of the Mid Valley Active Transportation Plan. Holiday was a participant in that included many 01:00:13
cities and the goal of that was to build a regional active transportation network that transcended city boundaries and connected 01:00:19
people to. 01:00:24
Commercial recreation, other things like that, so. 01:00:30
The Mid Valley Active Transportation Plan came up with this as a recommendation largely from public feedback. 01:00:34
And then the Wasatch Front Regional Council worked closely with UDOT and the city to get this incorporated in the latest version 01:00:41
of their Regional Transportation Plan, which is kind of the long range vision for transportation improvements along the Wasatch 01:00:46
Front. 01:00:52
And it is a phased approach between now and 2050 and projects are prioritized into 3 phases. This project was prioritized into 01:00:58
phase one, so the the most important and most recent phase. 01:01:04
That's certainly not a mandate, but it was highlighting the fact that this was a priority to the community and probably fairly 01:01:10
feasible to implement in a timely manner. 01:01:14
And there's there is a cost assumption that went with that. The cost assumptions in the regional transportation plan are pretty 01:01:20
high level. 01:01:23
They are based on kind of planning level design and kind of assumptions about what materials cost today and into the future. 01:01:27
Next slide please. 01:01:36
Thank you. So one of our goals was to look at how do we connect people to local and regional destinations. 01:01:53
Again, we know that Wheeler Farm is a huge destination. The trail access and the canyons. There are also daily destinations that 01:02:01
can be accessed off of 2300 E Highland Drive up by Knutson of course. 01:02:07
And then into the what we know as the existing and future active transportation network, what's planned in the future, how do we 01:02:14
connect into that for folks? 01:02:18
Next slide please. 01:02:22
Some of our goals also were about. 01:02:25
Providing safe and direct connections for people of all ages and all abilities. 01:02:28
Separated paved pathways do that really well. They're really comfortable, they're really safe. You're avoiding conflicts with 01:02:33
other vehicles. 01:02:36
It, you know, promotes that alternative mode. If there is a nice safe, direct connection for walking and biking, people are more 01:02:40
likely to take that than drive. 01:02:45
And of course, it's something that we've heard from this community as important. 01:02:49
And we heard that a lot in our stakeholder. 01:02:53
Meetings. We actually had one meeting out at the park and kind of walked around and looked at what those alignments might look 01:02:56
like. 01:02:59
As well as our online survey, we heard that. 01:03:02
Next slide please. 01:03:05
So going into this, we knew just generally some of the potential concerns from the community were going to be about privacy to the 01:03:09
adjacent properties and parcels along 215. 01:03:14
And so we wanted to make sure that whatever we were looking at and kind of designing in terms of alignment was really cognizant of 01:03:20
people's private property and privacy and safety behind their home. So that's something that we looked at. This is just a map 01:03:26
showing all the private properties, which are the parcels in blue and then kind of that Gray area is what we were looking at for 01:03:31
alignments. 01:03:36
And then, of course, the connection into the park. 01:03:42
Next slide please. 01:03:44
These are some examples of both locally and kind of in our neighborhood, Colorado of other. You go back to the previous slide, I 01:03:47
just want to make sure I understand the Gray. 01:03:53
The Gray shading area. So you're saying the path would be on the on on the South side of the Gray. 01:03:59
Yes. But yeah, basically the trail alignment, yeah, kind of is the line between the dark Gray and the, the light Gray, roughly. 01:04:07
OK, good. Hey, thanks. Umm. 01:04:12
So here's some other examples that we wanted to look at for, you know, when we start to put pen to paper here, how might we design 01:04:18
this so that it is private? It does protect property owners, access is not easy and nobody gets any bad ideas. And it's still 01:04:22
beautiful. 01:04:27
Next slide. 01:04:32
Here's another example of that, again, adding privacy walls, adding we heard a lot about landscaping and beautification as kind of 01:04:35
a long term goal and long term vision for this area. 01:04:40
So here is another example of other communities that are doing that next slide. 01:04:45
Here is our first stakeholder meeting. We really focused on visioning and goals for this corridor. Again, this included Cottonwood 01:04:50
Heights and UDOT and other kind of special interest groups that have ownership or interest in this area and this network. 01:04:56
We did a great mapping exercise where we looked at potential alignments. We documented everybody's comments about you know some of 01:05:03
those concerns about property and and intersection, connectivity and safety and things like that. So this was kind of the 01:05:09
information gathering phase. 01:05:14
Here are some more documentation of that. And then we kind of crafted a vision statement as a group. 01:05:22
Including UDOT and we were looking at developing A backbone facility that provides safe East West access for people walking and 01:05:27
biking. 01:05:31
And that connects to the existing and future active transportation network. 01:05:36
We also launched a public survey. We did the Canuteson Park event. We pushed information out on social media about this to direct 01:05:41
people to the survey and give them some background information. And then we had some Flyers up at some of these locations and 01:05:46
partners. Next slide. 01:05:52
We had 187 responses on our survey and received 100 e-mail contacts. 01:05:59
For folks, this was the flyer that we distributed. It was open for just about a month and 1/2. 01:06:06
Next slide. 01:06:12
We had some open-ended questions and then we had some multiple choice and select all questions. 01:06:14
People want to use this connection to recreate. They want to use it to access businesses on Highland Dr. They want it to kind of 01:06:18
create a bigger and more complete bicycle network that avoids busy roadways. 01:06:24
Next slide. 01:06:31
Most people that took the survey live around the park and that portion of 215. 01:06:33
Next slide. 01:06:39
And most people want to access businesses, access the park and use it for recreation. 01:06:41
Excited. 01:06:47
That we ask people to rank things in order of their personal preference and importance. 01:06:49
It was most important to people that whatever we put out there is wide enough for both people walking and biking to avoid 01:06:55
conflicts between active modes, which you know. 01:06:59
If you are a trail user, our trails are heavily used and heavily loved, so we're getting wider and wider and wider as we continue 01:07:04
to build these things. 01:07:08
Safe pedestrian crossings at those intersections that introduce cars into that pathway are really important to folks. 01:07:12
And then landscaping and beautification. 01:07:19
Separation from 2:15 in the path, right? There were some concerns of like is this going to be really noisy? Is this going to be 01:07:21
uncomfortable or unpleasant if we put this here? 01:07:26
We actually did go walk out there with UDOT and it's not as loud as you might think. So there are definitely some opportunities 01:07:30
there and then of course being able to access the the trail from the park. 01:07:36
This was our second stakeholder meeting out at the park. 01:07:43
That's the back of Heather's head. I forgot to introduce Heather Hamilton here. She's our designer on this. She's going to 01:07:48
actually walk through the alternatives with you that she's been working on. 01:07:51
And so this was a really great kind of boots on the ground experiment of like, OK, what is the grade really look like? What type 01:07:55
of vegetation is out here? What are the trees that are out here? What does this easement look like? Where is that? How might this 01:08:01
impact positively or negatively the easement language? We did get a great opinion from John and the city on the easement and and 01:08:07
feel like this does meet the intention of that easement and there are possibilities and opportunities for. 01:08:13
Connecting the trail through this area. 01:08:19
And I will pass it off to Heather now to walk you through the alternatives that we developed. And then there's there's four total 01:08:23
we we're kind of able to combine them into basically two that we think are kind of preferred. So we'll we'll narrow it down here 01:08:27
at the end for you. 01:08:32
Yeah. Good evening. 01:08:39
So a little background on the alternatives. 01:08:41
We'll get into it further in the presentation. 01:08:44
But. 01:08:47
To the east of the park we kind of broke this into two separate sections, the main section which is east of the OR sorry, West of 01:08:48
the park to Highland Drive. 01:08:53
And then we have 4 alternatives for connecting into the park. 01:08:59
So that's those are the four alternatives I'll go through 1st. 01:09:04
So you guys are probably familiar with the park there. It's pretty there's this. 01:09:08
Mountainous area to the. 01:09:15
Kind of southwest corner, which is where we would connect in. 01:09:17
We wanted to provide access to both the park and also the trail networks to the east, so that's why we chose this. 01:09:21
Tying in point. 01:09:31
I can point on here anyway, but down where you see those electric poles? That's kind of intended to provide access in both 01:09:33
directions. 01:09:36
So with these four alternatives, we had a few different goals in mind that guided them. 01:09:41
For alternative one. 01:09:47
We really wanted to take the feedback that of having two separate paths for both bikes and pedestrians. 01:09:48
So this alternative provides a 5% grade which meets ADA compliance. 01:09:55
And then the 11% grade would be a more direct bicycle access. 01:10:01
Is an 88 compliant but allows bikes to kind of bypass people that are walking faster route for those that are. 01:10:07
You know, trying to go from point A to point B. 01:10:15
Umm. 01:10:17
This option is about 2.4 million for just the park section. 01:10:20
For the park plus the area to the West, it's 11.1 million. So you'll see that on all these slides the total cost includes. 01:10:28
What's to the West as well as this in the park? 01:10:36
Umm. 01:10:40
You can go to the next slide please. 01:10:41
So this is just kind of a profile view of what's happening with those two different routes. 01:10:44
The 5%. 01:10:51
A grade versus the 11% grade. So you can just kind of visually see. 01:10:54
How? 01:10:59
One would be more comfortable for people. There's about a 35, I forgot to mention a 35 foot elevation difference from the bottom 01:11:00
to the top. 01:11:04
That we're trying to connect here, which is why that alternative. 01:11:09
Zigzags through the park so much. 01:11:12
We go to the. 01:11:16
Next. 01:11:17
This option we were trying to just. 01:11:19
Make it as most as cost effective as possible. 01:11:25
So we tried to follow the existing topography. With that, we're only able to have just the one route, 5% grade. Any connections 01:11:28
between there wouldn't. 01:11:33
Be able to be a direct. 01:11:39
Pat. 01:11:42
As you'll see later, we have a suggestion to add to this, but we'll get into that with this option. It's 1.2 million for the park 01:11:43
area and 9.9 million total. 01:11:49
Here's just that profile again showing 5% you can see. 01:11:57
The yellow dotted line represents the existing surface there, so this option just kind of follows that. 01:12:00
Close more closely than the other, which is why the cost is lower. 01:12:07
All these options would require retaining walls, so that's driving a lot of the cost in these it's. 01:12:13
There's a lot of earthwork and retaining walls involved. 01:12:19
Next slide please. 01:12:23
Alternative three. So this one was intended to try to avoid the easement altogether that darker green area. 01:12:25
So this one would stay within EU dot right of way. 01:12:32
It. 01:12:37
Is a little bit steeper grade 8% which. 01:12:38
Is. 01:12:42
It does mean 8888 compliance as long as you include ADA landings along the way. 01:12:44
So it's a little bit more expensive than materials that way. This, as I mentioned, this is a 35 foot elevation difference. 01:12:50
Through this area, so we're having huge cuts. 01:12:58
To get from the top to the bottom, you'd have huge retaining walls on both sides. 01:13:01
Up to like 1520 feet tall. 01:13:06
So it's expensive, could be a little bit uncomfortable for bikers, it's a little steep. You have bikes coming down that. 01:13:09
Quickly in the same space that people are walking. 01:13:16
Umm. 01:13:22
That total cost 10.3 million. Can you go to the next please? 01:13:23
Here's that profile view again, just showing that 8%. 01:13:30
You can go to the next slide. 01:13:34
So alternative 4 this is kind of the cake option. 01:13:36
This one would. 01:13:42
Have 5% or less through the whole route. 01:13:44
It would stay within UDOT right away. It would involve a bridge over the existing Rd. There it kind of same elevation as 2/15. 01:13:50
And then it would. 01:13:59
Come down the slope and tie into the north. 01:14:00
End of the park up there at the parking lot, so we just gradually just come down the side of the hill there. 01:14:05
This one is the most expensive 17.2 million obviously because of that structure Benefit is that. 01:14:11
It's a very comfortable grade. It's kind of a. 01:14:18
Pretty structure for your city. 01:14:22
And it stays out of that conservation easement as well. 01:14:26
You can go to the next slide. 01:14:30
So this is that section to the West that I was mentioning where we broke it up into. 01:14:33
We broke it up two parts here, 2000 E to 2300 E and then 23 to Canute Sins. 01:14:40
And we don't have different alternatives for these options. I mean, they're kind of all comparable, so. 01:14:47
I'm good. 01:14:53
Yeah, so this is just showing that those alternatives. 01:14:57
We're all at the park only. You can go to the next slide please. 01:15:00
So here's a summary of those cost differences. 01:15:05
The cheapest one is option 2, which is the one where we try to follow the topography. 01:15:09
We just have the one 5% route that just kind of. 01:15:14
Meanders up the hill and then obviously the most expensive is the bridge. 01:15:18
Again, walls are a huge part of these costs and I should also point out that these are very, very high level cost estimates just 01:15:24
to kind of to help you guys Dr. funding decisions and more of a. 01:15:30
Comparative estimate also for deciding between alternatives. 01:15:36
And go to the next slide. 01:15:41
So based on the feedback we got from the second meeting in the park, as people kind of walked through taking the survey 01:15:43
recommendations we developed, we kind of narrowed down to two options. 01:15:50
That we think. 01:15:58
Are good options. And. 01:16:00
And I can explain why to go to the next slide. 01:16:02
So this one on the left is kind of a combination of the 1st 2 alternatives. 01:16:06
The connecting path there would actually be more of like a stairway, or it may have to kind of zigzag up. 01:16:13
So you could still have that meander, but then for those that want a quicker direct route, you could have just kind of a stairway 01:16:20
there option to connect down. 01:16:24
Umm. 01:16:29
And then alternative four is great. 01:16:31
Because you know, it is a nice feature for the city and stays out of the conservation easement. 01:16:34
So that's. 01:16:41
Yeah, there are options. You go to the next slide. 01:16:43
I don't know, Alexis is a little bit. 01:16:47
More informed on this part. 01:16:49
This is sort of a next step slide and we can maybe table it for a second and and answer any of the questions that you have about 01:16:52
what we ran through. But basically I think there's several great ideas. 01:16:57
This trail would be pretty attractive for I think the Transportation Alternatives program would be one that comes to mind. 01:17:34
And I think this. 01:17:42
Would be a great thing to kind of pursue that way. Most of these funding sources, if they're federal, they require between about 7 01:17:45
to 20% match requirements. So the city would have to come up with. 01:17:50
That percentage of the the cost and and you could use these grant funds to do. 01:17:56
The final design work which you would absolutely need to do, and then you can also fund construction with them. 01:18:00
Any questions? 01:18:07
So what's the? So what's our charge here? Is it to? 01:18:09
Bring this up in a work session and go back over and then come back with a recommendation. 01:18:13
John, what direction are you? We're not are we making a decision tonight? No. What we're looking at is, is, is is is a high level 01:18:18
study that's been prepared for you to show you some alternatives get us in a really good position with with U dot in the state and 01:18:23
while such regular council. 01:18:28
If we have a package ready to go, shovel ready that we can apply for, yeah, so we can. We can talk about this a little bit later 01:18:34
with when we get into depth and all the alternatives and find out what exactly what you'd like to see. Yeah, perfect. I mean this 01:18:39
looks great. I mean just off the top of my head, I think it's going to be. 01:18:44
Hard to justify seven $8 million for a bridge right? Is what the wrong spot? What's that? The drop shot in the wrong spot. I also 01:18:50
have some concerns about the West End though, and where that drops off into kind of a no man's land. OK, but I think there may be 01:18:56
some alternative. 01:19:02
An opportunities there, yeah, but. 01:19:08
Yeah, I think I agree with the the the East End option where you're driving at, but yeah, the the South end. 01:19:10
Is a no man's land. 01:19:19
That you won't get people on or off at that spot unless we have some. 01:19:20
Deeper thinking there, West End, is that what you're saying on the West End on the on the Highland Dr. end, OK, Because that's 01:19:25
right with the freeway off ramp there, that's no man's land for a biker. 01:19:30
And I think there's some alternatives there maybe kind of assume we'll be. 01:19:37
Moving towards that, sorry that. 01:19:41
Hybrid that you've recommended, which I think looks great as long as we're reminding me of that easement, is that's account, is 01:19:44
that a county easement? 01:19:47
Conservation easement. Who's it with? This is an agreement from the county to us to fight conservation and we don't. I'm assuming 01:19:53
we just, we don't have a problem with that if. 01:19:57
That have the alternative we go with. Yeah the path is not a problem, it's. 01:20:02
Any other structure? 01:20:07
Right. 01:20:08
OK. 01:20:09
Well, I know this is Dan's been working on this. Yeah. Yeah. So I I I was part of the working group and appreciate Horrocks and 01:20:11
all the. 01:20:14
Partners we had because we had Cottonwood heights there and we had well, such front. 01:20:19
Regional Council and UDOT and you know we had a big crew there for the for the working group and led by Horrocks and. 01:20:24
And I agree with what? 01:20:33
Paul is saying is that that West End that ends at the hotel is is absolutely a no man's land but but we do as you recall have a 01:20:35
piece in the. 01:20:41
Holiday Crossroad Zone. 01:20:47
Which will ultimately we we will think ultimately will be developed in that that area down there that that has a. 01:20:50
A bike or a pedestrian bike path along at least that stretch of the canal to 6200 S. 01:20:57
That could that could connect the holiday crossroads to. 01:21:03
To that path and then we we discussed. 01:21:07
With I don't think we had anybody from Murray there, but we did discuss. 01:21:13
They're hard group to get potentially connecting to the Murray Trail system. And I think Murray has on the board a kind of a a 01:21:17
shared use path along I-215 as well. And that would be ideal because then that would connect further West and go down to into 01:21:25
Cottonwood Heights, into Murray and Cottonwood Heights and the Wheeler Farm and so on. 01:21:33
And then of course, the piece that we're experimenting with. 01:21:41
Canal Trail at least West of Highland Drive in Paul's district. 01:21:46
You know, so I think right now it's in no man's land, but I think in the future this is going to be a network of of of trails. 01:21:50
I frankly didn't see the use of the bridge myself and it's a very expensive thing, but. 01:22:00
Man, depending on what funding we could get. And it really finishes Canuteson Park because. 01:22:06
Because Canuteson Park is fantastic, but it's definitely not a pedestrian friendly park. 01:22:12
And you know you drive that section. 01:22:20
Yeah. It it you drive to the park and you park in that we have great parking lot great facility but this would this would increase 01:22:23
because this would this would also connect potentially to. 01:22:28
Cottonwood Heights has in mind their own trail system. 01:22:33
That would also sort of Nexus up in that area. 01:22:37
And anyway, I just, I just think this is a great opportunity and and and and we ought to pursue funding. 01:22:41
And see what, see what can come of it. I think it's a great, great plan. Yeah, I think to your point, that's. 01:22:49
That is kind of the next step is once we finalize this, this gives us all the tools we need to see if we can go find some money. 01:22:56
And I honestly think it was incredibly valuable to bring U dot in at this very early stage. They won't be surprised if you submit 01:23:03
an application to them for funding. They do have some great funding sources for active transportation. They were really, it was 01:23:08
really great to see them pouring over maps and coming up with solutions. So they are going to be champions of this for you I 01:23:12
think. 01:23:17
OK, great. 01:23:22
Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. Appreciate it. It's been a great project so far. And by the way, Emily. Emily Gray who 01:23:24
who is? 01:23:28
The council member elect for my seat. She also participated in all the the working group sessions, so she's up to speed as well 01:23:33
so. 01:23:37
Thanks, Emily. 01:23:42
OK. Thank you very much. 01:23:44
We are on to item 7 now. This is the rezone. 01:23:48
That we can, that we had the public hearing on at the last council meeting of the piece down just off of Spring Lane. 01:23:53
Ordinance 2023-12. 01:24:00
From PR 110, So I'll open this up to council before we take a motion. 01:24:03
Any questions or comments? 01:24:11
I think this is a pretty straightforward. 01:24:14
Sale of the LDS Chapel there. It's kind of a rare thing. Maybe that could be more commonplace, I don't know, but. 01:24:17
But the rezone is a zone event. We're fortunate that the application came in as our 1:10. 01:24:25
Because it's consistent with all the neighborhood around the Chapel. 01:24:30
So. 01:24:34
Were you just changed the ordinance number to 13, sorry, 2023 dash 13, OK. And I'd add to that there that there's no. 01:24:35
Real public use that the city could make of that, you know, it's it's close to these huge parks. 01:24:44
It it's sort of sort of in a neighborhood would be very small little park. I just think this is the best use for the land. 01:24:51
How would you like to that Mister Mayor? I move approval of ordinance 2023 dash 13, you say, Stephanie? 01:25:01
Amending the Hardy zone map for property located for rank 30 SW Moore Rd. from P to R110. 01:25:09
I'll second. OK. We have a motion a second. Thank you, Councilmember Brewer. 01:25:15
Yes. Council member Durham, Yes. Council member Fotheringham, Yes. Council member Quinn, Yes. Council member Gibbons, Yes and 01:25:20
chair votes Yes. 01:25:23
That rezone application is approved. Thank you, Council. 01:25:28
The next one is the. 01:25:31
Text amendment, I guess, to Title 13 to internally illuminated fuel price signs within the holiday village zone Ordinance 2023-12. 01:25:34
As I mentioned in the prior work session, I didn't get the sense that there was. 01:25:45
Complete consensus among the Council on how this vote is going to go. 01:25:50
So I would open this up for. 01:25:55
Comment prior to taking a vote and kind of see where people are on this particular issue. 01:25:57
Mr. Mayor, I'll start out. I, you know, so my. 01:26:03
I'm not sure I'm concerned with the. 01:26:07
The physical aspects of the the the ordinance itself with the with the signage what I am concerned about. 01:26:10
Is carving out. 01:26:17
A special class. 01:26:19
You know, it's it's in a limited area, but it's just one industry and what I'm concerned about is that. 01:26:21
Is that we open the door to. 01:26:27
Other merchants of various kinds, restaurants. 01:26:31
As school, you know well, we don't have any schools in the in the, in the, in the zone, but restaurants for example, or other 01:26:35
merchants who might say, well, I want to sign and why? Why does the gas station get one? 01:26:42
And. 01:26:49
I I if it were, if it were a broader based ordinance, I think I might. 01:26:51
Be persuadable to vote for it, but I think in in the, in the. 01:26:56
Posture. It's in right now. I think I'm in no vote. 01:26:59
Just because I don't like the idea of carving it out for this one industry. 01:27:02
Yeah, I would agree with that Dan. And also the the other argument we've been talking about which is we just. 01:27:08
There's the camel's nose. 01:27:14
Argument where we've been able to. 01:27:16
Excuse me, where we've been able to? 01:27:19
Protect ourselves from the Billboard industry. 01:27:21
And their electronic signage, where in the past we've seen the legislature try to say if you're doing electronic signage, then 01:27:24
you've got to allow for electronic billboards. And it was our lack of electronic signage which allowed us to dodge that bullet. 01:27:30
And even though that pretty simple legislation never actually came to fruition. 01:27:35
There's It was kind of a warning shot across the bow that it very well could. 01:27:41
I think I'm actually more concerned about yours. 01:27:47
Being a carve out just because they you, you never know what's gonna happen on the legislative mandate side that that can be kind 01:27:51
of a crapshoot. 01:27:54
The funny thing is, I really don't have any objection. I think it's actually improvement to the village if you allowed what 01:27:59
they're asking for for that specific location. The problem is the precedent. 01:28:04
Not the specific ask for that location, but that's those are the types of decisions we have to make are the ones that set 01:28:09
precedent and I'm a little bit. 01:28:13
Weary, and until I can get some comfort that we're not setting a precedent that all of a sudden opens a Pandora's box, I'm gonna 01:28:17
have to be no too. 01:28:21
I think I share the same concerns of Council Member Givens and Council Member Fotheringham. I was going to use the camel nose 01:28:28
metaphor myself, but sorry. 01:28:32
I also. 01:28:38
Just know that there have been some pretty important community stakeholders that have asked for signs and we've told them no and I 01:28:40
think it would be difficult to sort of explain how we're doing this carve out for a gas station in the village. 01:28:46
So I I I'm inclined to vote now. 01:28:53
I'll just say. 01:28:59
I appreciate what my fellow council members have said I. 01:29:01
This is a tough one, I would say because. 01:29:06
From a pragmatic standpoint, when when Council Member Gibbons mentions carving out something for specific industry. 01:29:09
It's tough because. 01:29:16
I. 01:29:19
Pretty much every gas station that I'm familiar with publishes their prices somehow. 01:29:20
And so it's hard for me to. 01:29:25
From and I'm I wasn't here when the original zone was put in place. 01:29:28
And I can appreciate the desire to keep. 01:29:34
Garish electric signs. 01:29:38
Down to an acceptable level, I guess. 01:29:40
And so I don't know that I like the legislation the way that it's written right now and I would probably vote no for it, but I 01:29:44
would say I think we. 01:29:48
It's really. 01:29:53
We have a bit of a responsibility to find an acceptable solution for them, maybe with some better crafted legislation. 01:29:56
Something that looks at things like. 01:30:02
The luminescence of the lights or, you know, whatever, whatever those characteristics are that that are viewed as undesirable. I. 01:30:05
And it doesn't sit well with me. I guess I would say to not be able to provide some type of a solution. So. 01:30:13
Agree with that too. 01:30:20
Yeah, I I think that's probably where I'm at. I think it's. 01:30:22
Just in some ways it's silly not to allow gas station to put those signs up, but on the same. 01:30:27
Token. When I look at how narrowly the amendment is written inside the code, it really refers to numbers. 01:30:33
And if somebody came and said, and I keep coming back to this, but I don't see the difference between a number and a letter and so 01:30:41
if somebody came and said, well. 01:30:45
I'm willing to meet that same requirement that the gas station is, but I just want to use letters and numbers. 01:30:50
I would have a hard time justifying that, so I'm all for if we can. 01:30:56
They put this code into the zone for a reason when they created the zone, right? Because they didn't want to create. 01:31:01
Garish. 01:31:07
Group of signs inside the village. 01:31:10
So if we could come up with a broader way. 01:31:12
To. 01:31:16
Accomplish that and still allow them to do it. I'd be for it, but the way this is written, I'm going to have a hard. I have a hard 01:31:17
time supporting it as well. 01:31:21
So Drew, I don't know if you want to add my team to that. 01:31:27
Well. 01:31:30
I. 01:31:31
I agree with everything that's been said. I. 01:31:34
Have trouble, I have a hard time. 01:31:37
Treating different. 01:31:41
Treating one gas station that's inside the village differently from a gas station that's outside of the village. 01:31:45
And that's the way it is now. I I feel bad that they they cannot put up. 01:31:51
You know, the sign that they want to put up, on the other hand. 01:31:57
I feel bad that we would. 01:32:01
Allow a gas. You know, if we would allow a gas station to do something that we wouldn't allow anybody else to do. 01:32:04
Inside the village. 01:32:10
And I think for businesses that have been in the village for a long time and have been. 01:32:12
Compliant with. 01:32:17
These. 01:32:18
Restrictions that we have just inside the village, I think that would be. 01:32:19
Really unfair to them and I I. 01:32:24
Again. 01:32:27
I agree with everybody. 01:32:28
This is a hard one, and maybe we will. 01:32:30
At some point, go back and readdress it. 01:32:34
Try and find something that that would work better than the. 01:32:37
Ordinance that we're looking at tonight. But I agree I I think I I'm going to be voting no. 01:32:40
Yeah, and even I know. 01:32:47
I admit I didn't look into it in detail time, but you said sent some. 01:32:49
Options that maybe weren't illuminated that we could look at that. 01:32:54
Allowed. 01:32:58
Some sort of option that maybe didn't. 01:32:59
Wasn't garish. 01:33:02
That we could consider more broadly in the village and not just restrict it to a gas station, I'd be open to that, but. 01:33:04
So Todd, I'm never sure I've had a motion where I know all the votes are going to be no, Is that do we just not take a motion, let 01:33:11
it fail or do we open it and then do no votes or do we take a motion to deny the application? What's the proper way to any of 01:33:16
those work? OK. 01:33:20
Can I make one other comment on on that note? So was it it was the property owner there that that put the? 01:33:25
Came to staff and staff, prepared the legislation like this. I would just say that the the solution I was had shared with the with 01:33:32
the mayor was you know like the the signs that are on Jumbotron type things where it says. 01:33:37
That's Flipboard type things that because I I get it right. Again, it's a gas station. It's common practice to have prices 01:33:43
published. 01:33:47
And it's a hassle to go out and have to flip through numbers of suction cups and you know and and remove them and that kind of 01:33:52
thing. And so I would, I would almost encourage if if that's something that that the gas station is looking for. I would almost 01:33:59
encourage that they explore things that might be acceptable in in that arena so that we could craft some legislation that would I 01:34:07
think honor the original intent of the of the zoning but also make it less onerous on them to. 01:34:14
Have been be broadly accepted in the zone right? 01:34:22
I also wouldn't wouldn't object if if it was. 01:34:26
Whatever ordinance we came up with, if it was expanded to allow it. 01:34:30
A non garish kind of deal for the schools. 01:34:34
I mean. 01:34:37
So we've had, we've had, I think at least two schools come forward to us and say, hey, can we? 01:34:38
Can we put it? We're going to have it. It's going to say this week's teacher, you know? 01:34:43
Teacher appreciation or we got back to school night or whatever. 01:34:47
In. 01:34:50
Of course that's a separate issue from the village because none of those are three separate issue from the village, but that that 01:34:51
would be kind of neat for the school if we're going to allow more generally. 01:34:55
Why not let the schools do it too? I don't know. 01:35:00
Here's the other option, where that gas station is at the very South end of the zone. 01:35:03
Perhaps a rezone? 01:35:09
Yeah, I was thinking the same. 01:35:10
Do you really want to talk about it? No, I'm just, I'm just trying to I that's a brainstormer right there. I'm not. I'm not, you 01:35:13
know, proponent of that. I'm just throwing out ideas. 01:35:18
But maybe that's a good workstation thing instead of in during session. So yeah, Parliamentary question for you though, Todd, you 01:35:23
said any of those options are available. What happens though if the motion is? 01:35:28
To not to deny and it fails. Does that mean it passes because you've got the four two thing? No. You would still require 01:35:33
affirmative votes to pass. 01:35:38
A proposal like this, so it's just that the negative passes, it's a done deal, but if it fails then it doesn't mean the opposite 01:35:44
if if there's if, the application doesn't succeed. 01:35:48
Then it fails by operation of law, whether you. 01:35:54
Do it by silence or by an affirmative negative vote if I could use a bad metaphor. 01:35:57
So. 01:36:03
Either way, I'll just go ahead and do it the normal way. I'll I'll and change the motion, sorry, change it to 14. 01:36:04
OK, so I'll do it the normal way, although I'm going to know just so knowing it's confused. 01:36:13
That I would propose a vote. 01:36:18
An ordinance. 01:36:23
2023-12. 01:36:25
4-14 I'm sorry, you just told me that. 01:36:27
Moved to I'll say move to approve so we know what what direction to vote move to approve Ordinance 2023-14, amending provisions of 01:36:31
Title 13 related to internally on the data. 01:36:36
Fuel signs in the Holiday Village Zone. 01:36:42
Second OK, so we have a motion in a second. So if if, if you would like this. 01:36:45
Amendment to be approved. The vote is yes. If you don't want it to be approved, the vote is no, Correct. OK. 01:36:50
All right, Council member Brewer. 01:36:56
No. 01:36:58
Council member Durham? No. Council member fathering him? No. Councilmember Quinn? No. Council Member Gibbons? No. 01:36:59
And chair votes no and the provision is defeated and. 01:37:05
There will be no change to the ordinance. 01:37:10
OK. 01:37:14
Get that right, Todd? 01:37:15
OK. Thanks, Paul. 01:37:16
All right, no city manager report, Council reports. 01:37:18
We'll start with tie down at the end. 01:37:24
Let's see. Let me pull up on my notes. 01:37:28
Umm. 01:37:32
Few things I did. 01:37:35
The chocolate what's it called? Chocolate milk? Chocolate milk. Judge. The Chalk The Walk wanted to thank Paul for recommending 01:37:37
that it was a it was a great. 01:37:41
Event and it was impressive to see the talent that was on display. I love things like that, that bring you know the sense of 01:37:45
community that brings and all the people that were there and it was great. 01:37:50
And thank the Art Council for and Cheryl and all that they do to to to push those things. Those types of events was great, great 01:37:56
event. 01:38:00
Just and I. 01:38:05
Forget if I mentioned this or not, but Chief Hoyle. 01:38:06
Is it annually on this community police Academy? 01:38:09
Yeah, I I've it's like it's a long program. It was like I think it's a 10 or 11 weeks every Tuesday night I've been going to this 01:38:13
community police Academy and. 01:38:17
I thought that the fire school was long too. It was a full Saturday. This is longer in aggregate, but I I have to say, it's been 01:38:23
really a great every every night that we've gone. It's just been very informative, helped me become less ignorant about all that. 01:38:30
Are. 01:38:39
Police law enforcement officers do in all the different divisions. 01:38:40
And it's really a great thing. So if that comes up again next year, I guess I would just encourage my fellow council members, 01:38:44
frankly, anybody from the community really, there are most of the people that are. There are really just people from the 01:38:50
community. There's 30 or so attendees, but you, you know. 01:38:55
They got, we had a big demonstration on the SWAT teams this last week and on drone surveillance and on canine. The canine units 01:39:01
they they they go through through it also. It's been very good. 01:39:06
The other thing I thought I'd just mentioned is I had a constituent reach out about this and I know that we're coming into winter 01:39:14
and this isn't the time of year at this point, but I've done a little bit more homework on this. 01:39:19
There's some Salt Lake City had a subsidized grass seed program for the for a seed blend that uses 30% less water. And so from a 01:39:24
water conservation standpoint. 01:39:30
And and the problem is, is that Salt Lake City is virtually always out of that seed. And I think it's because it's subsidized and 01:39:38
it's so cheap. 01:39:41
But they do provide four different suppliers, private suppliers where you do still have you have to pay for it and it's more but 01:39:46
it's still in the scheme of things not very expensive. And and so I I just thought I just mentioned that from a we had an issue 01:39:51
recently on water conservation as you all know and and I just thought I would just mention that there's a resource there for this 01:39:56
seed mix that. 01:40:01
In the spirit of conserving water, I think is is just merits general knowledge and it's it's a good thing. 01:40:07
Um. 01:40:13
And lastly. 01:40:14
I think I mentioned earlier in our session, but we do have with there is a fundraising effort underway and Pathways and Associates 01:40:17
has been helping with that that effort. Specifically right now the the the push has been around this funding for video 01:40:25
surveillance and lights of the of the skate park. But in addition to that it's the gazebo and the and the historical walk and 01:40:32
there's a competition going on right now to to to encourage more of a grassroots fundraising. 01:40:40
Effort with prizes that will be awarded on November 2nd when there's a an event to clean the the skate park. 01:40:47
And so that's underway, I thought I'd, I'd mentioned that. 01:40:55
And then lastly, another issue that's reared its head I think prior to me being on the council, but it it was a a big issue at one 01:40:59
point. 01:41:03
Centered around dogs and and the challenges that some of the elementary schools with with off leash dogs and there are city 01:41:09
ordinances for these and I had a constituent reach out very frustrated because of the mass that his kids come home with every. 01:41:16
Very frequently and and out and as I've looked into that and as you all probably know it's a widespread issue that basically every 01:41:24
school struggles with and I've been in contact with Julie Jackson on the Granite school board and they're they're pushing to just 01:41:31
try to it. It's one of those things that I think just takes and I think Chief Oil too as as their as the it's a difficult those 01:41:37
those laws that are on the books holiday. 01:41:44
Code about picking up after dogs and about not having dogs off leash are difficult ones to enforce. Really. Just because. 01:41:51
You have to be there to in the moment to see it and so. 01:41:58
But. 01:42:01
Julie is. 01:42:04
Making a big push to try to address this and. 01:42:06
It's one of those cases, I think, where if if we can't have responsible behavior, then privileges will be lost, I think or or 01:42:09
something to that effect and so. 01:42:13
We don't have a lot of. 01:42:17
Dog parks, you know in in holiday and so I can, I can understand. 01:42:19
Why that would be happening but. 01:42:25
But hopefully our residents and those that are using those. 01:42:28
Using those public properties can be more responsible so that that privilege isn't lost. 01:42:33
That's my report. Thanks, Matt. 01:42:38
Just two or three things. I attended the Crestview Community Council a week or so ago. They have a new principal there and elected 01:42:41
new officers, and they're looking forward to a new year, so I made the connection with. 01:42:47
The new principal and. 01:42:54
I think that will be a good a good relationship I. 01:42:57
I attended the tree committee meeting today and they brought up a couple of things that I think are worth mentioning. One is. 01:43:00
They expressed some concern. 01:43:09
And. 01:43:11
I wouldn't have thought of this, so this is one of the good things of me being on the tree committee. 01:43:12
But with the. 01:43:16
Reconstruction of the entryway. 01:43:18
There were some trees that were lost that they think could have been salvaged and replanted somewhere else and so they were 01:43:20
suggesting that if. 01:43:23
There are other construction projects or or demolition projects or things that this on city property. 01:43:28
Maybe we coordinate with them on? 01:43:34
On what we do with the trees that are there. 01:43:37
Jerome is a Jeremiah elder. Could you say the same? He was, he was there and he. 01:43:42
Is a really helpful kind of. 01:43:48
Exofficio member of the committee and offered to help out with that on a volunteer basis, so I just raised that as something that 01:43:51
maybe we should be aware of. And then. 01:43:55
I talked to John about this a little bit earlier, but. 01:44:00
They they expressed some concerns about the. 01:44:04
Flip the strip program and what happens to the trees that are in this parking? 01:44:09
Strip area or the city the city tree area if the if the turf is removed. 01:44:14
And wanted to talk about and explore ways to maybe make sure that we're protecting the irrigation for the trees and. 01:44:20
Educating our citizens about the importance of continuing to water the trees, even if they take out their turf. 01:44:26
And I really want to thank John John's. 01:44:31
Kind of taking the initiative to help start a discussion on that, but I think that will be an important thing. 01:44:34
For us to think about and those those, those are the two that two or three things for my report. 01:44:39
Just two quick things. First, thanks to Jared, our City Engineer and Chief Hoyle and his team. 01:44:45
We. 01:44:51
But some might have mentioned this in the previous council meeting, but we've put some no parking signs on. Lower Lakewood, 01:44:53
adjacent to the Colwood Country Club, is generally when there are larger events to get parking on both sides of the streets, which 01:44:58
makes it way too skinny for emergency vehicles or for cars to get through. 01:45:04
And so with the no parking on that one side, that's been very effective. And particularly now that that's not just a quick club 01:45:11
events, we've got 3 new homes that were scraped and new construction. And so there's a lot of cars that were on both sides of the 01:45:14
street. 01:45:18
But um, we've made it. No parking on the one side to alleviate that problem. But then. 01:45:22
When there were folks who were not paying attention to those signs, I was able to call Chief Oil and he had his traffic person 01:45:28
take care of that for us. But it's been a success, I think, in terms of improving the safety of the street. 01:45:33
I don't think the the members are a problem anymore and it is created a safer environment. The second thing is just briefly. 01:45:40
The big sculpture on the village Plaza. I hope you've noticed it. It is frigging awesome. 01:45:49
If that's a technical term I can use at City Council. 01:45:55
It's beautiful. I mean, we all on the Arts Council, we were all very excited about it. But of course we're all a little bit 01:45:59
nervous until it actually gets installed, you know? 01:46:03
But now that it's been installed, it's just a glorious addition to the city, and I'm just. 01:46:08
Very proud of our Arts Council for putting that together and and providing that great new piece of art, public art, in our main 01:46:13
village square. It's awesome. 01:46:17
So I have. 01:46:23
True. 01:46:25
Thank you. I was able to go to the Morningside Community Council a couple weeks ago. 01:46:26
And. 01:46:31
Also the Morningside PTA Carnival. 01:46:33
And I was able to be in the booth with a librarian and and we. 01:46:37
Encourage kids to read. We would read to them or they would read to each other. That was a really fun event. 01:46:43
And Speaking of the library, I went there. 01:46:49
This last Saturday. 01:46:52
To. 01:46:54
Just to exchange to get a new book and realize that it was their eclipse. 01:46:57
Preparation for the Eclipse day and I've got to say our holiday library people do things so well. 01:47:03
They had crafts for the kids. They were handing out glasses. 01:47:10
Fort so that you could look at the eclipse without, you know, safely. 01:47:14
And they had telescopes set up people from the planetarium. 01:47:18
Planet. Yeah. Anyway, it was it was a wonderful event. So we really in our library have a great resource and that's it. 01:47:24
This real quick I met since our last meeting. I met with the. 01:47:34
RFP Review Committee for the Holiday Historical Exhibit Experiences. 01:47:38
Project as you recall we've we've budgeted $850,000 for that, including some grant money. 01:47:44
And anyway, Tuesday morning we'll be interviewing. 01:47:51
3 applicants, 33 firms that submitted. 01:47:55
Proposals and so that'll be good and I'm sure there will be a recommendation come to the council sometime after that. So so Holly 01:48:00
and and Gina are also involved as well as. 01:48:06
Sandy Meadows, who's the chair of the Historical Commission. So anyway, we're meeting Tuesday morning and. 01:48:13
That's all I got. 01:48:19
OK. I'm out of the interest of time. First I just want to say remind me. 01:48:21
How fortunate we are to have engaged council members. 01:48:27
Ben Horsley, who's the communications director for granted, always comments on. 01:48:30
How impressed he is. 01:48:35
That our city actually has liaisons that work with our public school infrastructure and actually go to those meetings. 01:48:37
And our engagement on the Elkwood issue, they're not used to that. 01:48:43
And I don't want to take that for granted. I don't think this council should take for granted. 01:48:47
Appreciation grant As for our engagement with our public school infrastructure, like a direct engagement. 01:48:52
And you know, just 22 council members reporting their meetings and I know. 01:48:58
Today's been and I've. 01:49:02
Been remiss in not reaching out to. 01:49:04
But I'll get on that, but we're really lucky to have that and. 01:49:06
We'll be moving over across the hall. We're obviously not going to make the 8:00 estimate. I never know how long this stuff's 01:49:10
gonna go. I apologize. 01:49:14
But we will be starting, we're doing, we do the best we can and I thought we'd get a little bit further in the work session, but. 01:49:19
We have a very important presentation from. 01:49:26
Are. 01:49:29
Our Chief and the UPD about the transition there that we'll be starting with, we'll see how long that goes. It will probably be 01:49:31
fairly lengthy. I'm thinking 45 minutes to an hour and then we'll move right into that butternut discussion. So I apologize for 01:49:37
the delay, but we're doing the best we can and with that I'd take a motion to recess to work meeting. 01:49:43
Mr. Mayor, I move that we recess in to a work session. 01:49:51
2nd. 01:49:56
Motion and second all in favor. Say aye, aye, and we are recessed. We'll move, take a couple minute break and move right across 01:49:58
the hall. 01:50:01
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file. Make sure you have Adobe Reader installed
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file. Make sure you have Adobe Reader installed

Transcript

Event transcript
I can start. 00:00:43
OK. 00:00:45
Then we will start. Welcome everybody. I am going to call to order the City Council meeting for the City of holiday on Thursday, 00:00:47
October 5th. 00:00:50
And we will start with the pledge if everybody please rise. 00:00:54
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:01:01
United States of America. 00:01:05
And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:01:07
Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:01:10
OK. Thank you everybody. Before we open public comment, let me just state that we have. 00:01:19
Two public hearings this evening. Items number four and five. 00:01:25
I'm assuming most of the people here are going to be here for item number. 00:01:30
Five, which is the Butternut Rezone public hearing? 00:01:34
So if you're here for either of those, if you'd Please wait till we open those public hearings to address the Council, we would 00:01:39
appreciate it. 00:01:43
If you are here to address the Council on other than those two public hearings. 00:01:47
We would ask you to come up to the podium and give us your name, address and this would be for the public hearings as well. Name, 00:01:53
address and try to keep your comments to 3 minutes or less unless you were speaking on behalf of a larger group. 00:02:00
So other than the two public hearings, public comment is now open. Anybody here to address the council? 00:02:06
On other than the two public hearings. 00:02:13
OK, there being none, we will close public comment and we will move to item number 4. 00:02:20
This will be a public hearing on proposed rezone for property located at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. from R&R 143 zone to an 00:02:27
R110 zone. 00:02:33
Counsel, this information is in your packet as well as the staff report and we're going to invite Kerry Marsh up to address the 00:02:40
Council, cover the staff report and field any questions that the council has before we open up the public hearing so. 00:02:47
Carry the podium is yours. 00:02:55
Great. Thank you, Mayor. So this proposed rezone is? 00:02:59
For properties at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. going from an R143 zone to an R110 zone, the two properties as they exist don't 00:03:04
conform to the R143 zone. Their lot size is smaller than one acre. 00:03:13
And the intent of the property owner is to. 00:03:23
The rezone enables them to move the lot line between neighbouring property that they own on Cottonwood Blvd. 00:03:27
So it will increase the size of the property on Cottonwood Blvd. And decrease the size of these two properties to about .4 acres 00:03:35
each. 00:03:40
And the. 00:03:45
They want to increase the size of the Cottonwood Blvd. Property because of a large accessory building that they have plans to 00:03:48
build there. They have a conditional use permit for that accessory building. 00:03:53
And want to increase some area behind it so that there's more of a buffer between the. 00:03:58
Between the properties. 00:04:03
Any questions on that that I can answer? 00:04:05
I got a couple of questions so. 00:04:09
There's a property immediately to the South. 00:04:12
On the same side of the street of Holiday Blvd. That looks like it's an even smaller, nonconforming lot. 00:04:15
Right. Are there other non conforming lots to the South or is this kind of the further reach of the of the non conforming? 00:04:21
Pieces. 00:04:27
I didn't look further South. It looked like that is likely the furthest reach of those nonconforming, but there is likely some 00:04:28
other properties in that R143 zone that are nonconforming that's fairly consistent in all of our zones. We sometimes end up with 00:04:35
parcels that are a little bit smaller that were that are legal but nonconforming. 00:04:42
Yeah. And thanks. And then the other question I had was so the, so the, the back piece of that of those two lots, the Holiday 00:04:49
Blvd. lots is the there's going to be a conveyance of those. 00:04:56
Lots to the. 00:05:03
Well, they all, they're all common owner, but to the property owners on Cottonwood Lane and then those lots will be combined, 00:05:05
right, So that that'll become. 00:05:09
A new like 1.5 acre lot, is that right? No, they're going to keep those as two separate parcels. So that's why they're wanting to 00:05:14
go down to the R110 zone so that they can, ohh, I see I got you. But the but the the lot on Cottonwood, Cottonwood Lane is going 00:05:21
to remain R143, yes. OK. Yep. Property size on that will increase to about an acre and 1/2. So it won't be able to be subdivided 00:05:27
even when it takes on more land. Great. Hey, thanks. 00:05:34
Any other questions? OK. 00:05:47
Questions from council. OK. Thanks, Carrie. 00:05:50
All right. With that then we are going to open the public hearing on this application. Well, I guess I should ask first, is the 00:05:55
applicant here? 00:05:59
OK. So we will open the public hearing. Is anybody here to address the council on this rezone application? 00:06:04
Somebody's just walking in. I'll bet they're not here for that either. 00:06:15
OK. With that then we are going to close this public hearing. Thank you. 00:06:19
Now item number 5 is a public hearing on proposed rezone for three properties located at. 00:06:24
4437 E Butternut Road 2475 E 4500 S and. 00:06:30
2485 E-40. 00:06:37
500 S from the R18 and R110 zones. 00:06:39
To an R28 zone. 00:06:43
Again, we have a pretty extensive. 00:06:47
Staff report in the packet that the Council has reviewed. We also received a summary of the Planning Commission. 00:06:52
Hearing on this with all the details that were included in the Planning Commission hearing. 00:07:00
And I have some comments, but I think and questions but I think I'm going to. 00:07:07
Reserve all that until we hear the staff report on this and then I would encourage. 00:07:12
Let me just say that for the audience that's here's typically we'll get a staff report, I have a few questions, we'll open the 00:07:18
public hearing, sometimes we'll close, sometimes we won't. And then you'll notice on our agenda that that we have a follow up 00:07:23
where we discussed these public hearings. 00:07:28
I'm going to try to extend what we cover publicly. 00:07:36
To get all those questions out in the open, so you can hear what the council has to say at this point. So I don't take up too much 00:07:40
of your time. But having said that, we still will have follow-up discussion on this in the work session. 00:07:47
But it may be. 00:07:54
We'll see how this goes right here. If I feel like we get it all out, then we I may readjust our work session agenda and move it 00:07:57
to the front. So I don't keep any everybody. If it looks like there's still a lot of discussion to be had after that, I hope I'm 00:08:02
not confusing you. I'll leave it as agenda and it might be. 00:08:08
8:00 before we get to that, if that makes sense so. 00:08:14
Carrie, let's start with your review of the staff report and then I'm going to encourage our council to. 00:08:18
To start asking questions that they have regarding this application which is a little bit more complicated than the previous one. 00:08:25
Great. Thank you, Mayor. So this proposal of a rezone as mentioned on the three properties, 4437 S, Butternut 2475 E. 00:08:37
And 2485 E both on 45th South. 00:08:48
Um. 00:08:51
Three separate property owners that joined this application together to rezone to an R2 zone. 00:08:52
The. 00:09:01
Main reasons for staff support on this one is that in the General Plan this area along 45th South. 00:09:03
In a transit corridor is supported to be rezoned to. 00:09:11
Multifamily transitional, which includes an R28 zone. 00:09:18
There's multiple zones in that multifamily transitional, including R210R28. 00:09:22
I think R1. 00:09:29
For as well. 00:09:31
With selecting the R28 zone, staff felt that that was the enabled the best use of each individual property based off of those size 00:09:34
the sizes of the existing properties. 00:09:40
That would. 00:09:47
Create. 00:09:48
The units that the that the applicants are desiring to to create on their own property. It's not an application that's coming from 00:09:53
a developer. The parcels are not being combined together, so they'll retain and separate ownership, so they're limited just by the 00:09:58
size of their own property. 00:10:03
The middle property is. Let's see. We'll start on the first property, which is on Butternut. It's on the corner. 00:10:10
It is .18 acres and underneath it is. 00:10:17
Less than 8000 square feet to meet requirements to have two units on that property. It does not. 00:10:23
Meet those requirements. So that property would not be able to have two rentable units on that. 00:10:31
And so the R2 zone effectively doesn't. 00:10:38
Enable them to use. 00:10:42
The property that they have for more than just a single family. 00:10:45
There's a possibility with that R2 zone if they were to pick up. 00:10:49
Some additional land or moving lot lines between neighbors that they could possibly create a a second unit. 00:10:54
Or use a second unit in that R2 zone, or utilize the R2 zone. 00:11:02
But as it is, yeah. 00:11:07
So I'm a little confused in that. 00:11:10
Although the Planning Commission thought one way, the staff recommendation was positive and yet you know you're saying that but it 00:11:12
wouldn't comply. 00:11:16
So I'm confused how there could be a recommendation to proceed from the staff. 00:11:21
When they don't meet the parameters to. 00:11:26
To meet to do that. 00:11:31
Help me understand that. Sure. Incongruence there. Yeah. So the the R2 zone, you can still have a single family dwelling on it, 00:11:34
so. 00:11:39
That property, just because of its size, would only be able to have one unit on it. 00:11:44
If they were to adjust the property size, then they could. Additionally, they could potentially have. 00:11:49
More than one unit, but it would require. 00:11:55
Property size adjustment. 00:11:58
So you can have single units, like an individual unit in an R2 zone that R2 zone. 00:12:00
You don't have without additional property. 00:12:08
Nothing really can be accomplished on that one, right? 00:12:10
And you were talking about the one on the West End of the Yes, Yep, that's on the corner of Butternut and 40. 00:12:14
Whatever, this side rows 4430 I think. 00:12:22
So R2 zone. 00:12:27
Maybe a potential future use? 00:12:29
The property owner kind of instigated the application and brought in the neighbors that are interested in the R2 zone as well. 00:12:32
Staff saw it as a potential for a future opportunity if there was some agreements between property owners. 00:12:42
But as it stands that it that it would not. 00:12:51
It would not be applicable to have two units. 00:12:56
On the property. 00:12:58
So just to be clear. 00:13:00
The property owner said that they wanted to rent the Adu that's under their garage. 00:13:02
They can do that without changing the zone, correct? 00:13:07
With our current code, external which that Adu is an external unit. 00:13:11
They can't rent the external AU unless their property is twice the minimum lot size in this so that So they can't, even though 00:13:18
it's attached to their garage that it's not attached to the house at all. The garage isn't attached to the house, right? OK, so 00:13:25
external Edu's can't be rented unless the lot is twice the minimum lot size in the zone. 00:13:33
So they would need a. 00:13:41
16,000 square foot lot to rent an external Edu Ohh. This don't change. Doesn't affect that fact, no. 00:13:43
So I think that I know that that corner property probably has the most questions on it. 00:13:51
In the end, the property owner said Ohh. You know, this doesn't really benefit me, but. 00:13:57
You know, maybe if things move in the future there's. I mean, he could create 2 units in the existing house if he created a 00:14:01
separation like between a basement and an upstairs, but. 00:14:07
Not a lot of interest in doing that. 00:14:14
As is so it creates an opportunity in the future by by rezoning it to R2. But as it stands, he's the lot. Size only qualifies it 00:14:16
for one. When you say it creates an opportunity in the future, tell me what you mean by that. 00:14:23
And that would be reliant on picking up additional property. So if he if he could reach an agreement with his neighbors to expand 00:14:30
the size of his lot, yeah. 00:14:35
Yes. 00:14:39
He would need 8000 square feet, a lot size to have an attached. 00:14:40
Two attached units. 00:14:45
And we have 10,010 thousand for two detached units. 00:14:48
8000 for two attached units and those would both be rentable rather than an Adu, right? Situation right? Thank you. 00:14:52
And I can go into the other two properties. Is there any questions on those or should we run through those as well? 00:15:01
OK. And the middle property is .41 acres and this one is? 00:15:08
Most applicable with the unclaimed density that's mentioned in the General Plan at .41 acres in an R110 zone. This property can't 00:15:15
be subdivided and. 00:15:20
You can't have any additional units placed on it because it is a single family zone. 00:15:26
So you have a large property that is limited to just a single family. Use. 00:15:31
Other than the internal AU. 00:15:36
Right. 00:15:39
There can be an Adu, just not a detached Adu, right? And that one, they could have a detached. Well, no, they can't have a 00:15:40
detached DU on that one either. That's rentable because they don't have twice the. 00:15:46
Lot size. 00:15:52
Or have a gram, yeah. 00:15:54
So they would they could do an internal Adu that would be rentable, but not an external. 00:15:56
And there's the with the R2 zone they could potentially add, I think I detailed. 00:16:05
3 detached units. 00:16:12
Or they could do 2. 00:16:15
Buildings with two units in each, so two structures with two units each. 00:16:17
Or three separate structures. 00:16:23
Um. 00:16:26
They already have an existing house on the property. I they don't. I'm not sure what their intention is with either keeping that 00:16:27
house or if they want to split it into an attached unit. 00:16:32
But they would like to add at least one detached unit at this point just for family. 00:16:39
But with an R2 zone, they could make that so it's rentable, or it would also be purchasable in the future. 00:16:46
That is another advantage with the R2 zone is that the creation of units can be split out into separate ownership. 00:16:53
So you'd have smaller units that would then in the future could be sold into separate ownership. 00:17:01
So, and especially with doing the the detached units, you're creating smaller. 00:17:10
Single family dwelling units that are detached and separate on the property. 00:17:15
Any questions on that one? 00:17:21
OK. 00:17:25
And the third property? It's on the corner of Wander Lane and the Side Street. 00:17:25
That one is .26 acres. 00:17:31
Right now they I same situation, they could build an external AU but. 00:17:34
Also would not be rentable. 00:17:40
With rezoning to R2, they could build a separate detached unit. 00:17:44
They weren't interested in doing an attached unit. They want to do a separate detached unit, same thing at the current time to use 00:17:49
that for family. 00:17:54
But in the future, there's that ownership potential where that could be divided out and have separate ownership. 00:18:00
Any questions on that one? 00:18:08
And. 00:18:12
Looking to at the historical area of our two zones, there's. 00:18:14
In the packet there was a map that showed existing duplexes. 00:18:19
And that's in our general plan showing the existing. 00:18:25
Where duplexes are located in the existing land uses. 00:18:29
You can see areas where there are duplexes. There's some on Russell on the east side. They're in a single family zone, but they 00:18:32
are a legal nonconforming duplex. So historically duplexes were created in the neighborhood. 00:18:40
The middle property owner had a duplex originally, probably back in the 60s or 50s when the house was built. 00:18:49
And then as Salt Lake County changed zoning and then when it was incorporated into holiday. 00:18:55
That duplex use I think was discontinued at some point and so they don't have a legal. 00:19:02
Nonconforming duplex. 00:19:08
But it was. 00:19:10
Potentially, probably a duplex. 00:19:12
In the past. 00:19:14
So there's a lot of history of duplexes being allowed in the in the area, there's a lot of duplexes. 00:19:15
In the surrounding neighborhood because they were permitted at one point from Salt Lake County. 00:19:20
So right now we have a lot of non or legal nonconforming duplexes. 00:19:25
That are. 00:19:30
On side streets or interspersed kind of in the neighborhood immediately to the South. 00:19:31
Immediately to the South across 23rd or what are you counting as? Immediately to the South? Across 45th? South? 00:19:37
Ohh okay across 40 the South. 00:19:45
Yeah, so. 00:19:47
On Russell Rd. there's some on the east side. Those are in a single family zone currently, but they are duplexes that were created 00:19:49
under Salt Lake County zoning. 00:19:54
And with. 00:19:59
That major arterial on 45th South, do you? 00:20:00
Do you consider that part of the same neighborhood? 00:20:04
Historically, so. 00:20:08
There's a map in the staff report that showed R2 zone on that north side of 45th South. 00:20:10
That was changed in the 60s to be an R1 zone. 00:20:16
So. 00:20:20
Similar neighborhoods. 00:20:21
I would consider them to be very similar. 00:20:23
Divided by a main arterial, but there was a lot of similar building patterns in those two neighborhoods. 00:20:26
But does that include duplexes or R twos or twin homes nonconforming on the north side of 45th on the north side? 00:20:33
On the existing, it looks like a lot of those uses weren't continued. 00:20:42
I think there were probably larger properties that got redeveloped into single family homes. Walking through that neighborhood, 00:20:47
I've seen mostly single family homes on large properties. 00:20:51
The middle. 00:20:59
The middle. 00:21:03
The middle home. 00:21:05
The existing structure was a duplex or as the structure changed. 00:21:07
The existing home was a duplex, so the property owner said that there's, you know, framing in there, that it was a duplex when he 00:21:11
purchased the property. The previous property owner said, you know, this was a duplex before. 00:21:17
It's just that it was converted to a single family at some point so lost any non conforming status that do we know what that was. 00:21:24
I don't the property owner may know, but I'm not sure when it was switched over. 00:21:32
Are there any other questions on this one too we can talk about the general plan or kind of the transit corridor. That's actually 00:21:42
what I was curious, could you give a little bit of background on the general plan and then this what the council did in 2020, Do 00:21:47
you know the history and the rationale was so close on 45th and 2030 E where they're where they went from? 00:21:53
R210 to R110. Do you happen to know the context of what why that was done? 00:22:00
Yes, so the. 00:22:04
There was two properties on Butternut Rd. that. 00:22:08
They were R110, I think. 00:22:13
The property owner wanted to. 00:22:17
Was the corner property they wanted to rezone to an R2. 00:22:21
Ohh, let's see, where was it the reverse back in 2014? OK, so. 00:22:26
When Ivory bought it in 2020 and they rezoned, so they bought 2 properties. 00:22:30
Rezoned so that they could get a smaller lot size. 00:22:36
And that enabled them to put three houses on 2 on what was originally two properties. 00:22:39
So they combined two properties. 00:22:45
Rezone to R18. 00:22:48
And then divided it into 3. 00:22:50
OK, because I was thinking that the staff report showed that the 2020 change was a. 00:22:53
Was a change. 00:22:58
From R210, excuse me, yeah, probably R18. 00:23:00
Or R110 to R18. 00:23:04
OK. So they had a 10,000 square foot lot minimum size with the combination of the two parcels they needed to go down to R18 to. 00:23:08
Get 3, three. OK. Thank you Kerry. I have, I just have one question if you. 00:23:17
If you could just in. 00:23:22
Pretty simple terms summarize. 00:23:24
Why the staff report is recommending something different than the Planning Commission? 00:23:27
Planning Commission came down with a negative recommendation, and anyway, so if you could just explain the rationale for a staff 00:23:34
recommendation, that's pretty unusual staff recommendation. 00:23:39
Recommending something different than the Planning Commission. 00:23:45
Staff recommendation was made based off of the main points of following the general plan where it identifies areas. 00:23:49
Close to that transit corridor of 45th South as an area to rezone to medium density residential or an R2 zone. 00:23:56
So that's one main point. The 2nd is moderate income housing goals. 00:24:06
Rezoning is a. 00:24:11
Best practice to Enable Affordable Housing That's in Kim Gardner Housing Affordability Reports, So. 00:24:14
If. 00:24:21
When we're looking at the general plan and looking at places where we can enable some affordable housing or you know, that's the 00:24:22
area that we're looking at. 00:24:27
Although it doesn't fall directly onto 45th South, rezoning typically involves some minor arterial roads as well. Off of Highland 00:24:32
Drive, you know you'll have a a road that comes down that. 00:24:38
Accesses are two properties, or. 00:24:44
RM properties. 00:24:48
So a lot of times those razones don't fall right on the on the main road, but they'll involve some minor roads. 00:24:50
Less usual to see. Kind of a single parcel or two. 00:24:59
Where the property owners were coming and asking for the rezone on this one. 00:25:05
You know they. 00:25:10
They would like to utilize the property themselves. It's not a developer that's coming into. 00:25:11
To combine them all and create a larger development. 00:25:16
So it's just property owners who would like to have. 00:25:20
Another unit or two? 00:25:23
Umm. 00:25:24
The. 00:25:26
But the main points were being the the General Plan and moderate income housing goals. 00:25:27
Planning commissions main finding was. 00:25:33
Concern for pedestrian safety and bike safety. There's a lot of pedestrian use on that narrow roadway. 00:25:37
There is a walkway that goes through the park. 00:25:45
So is pedestrian safety addressed through utilizing some of the other safety mechanisms that are in place? 00:25:49
The city engineers stated that their. 00:25:57
The increase in traffic from. 00:26:00
Vehicles accessing. 00:26:02
Three to five more units would be negligible. 00:26:04
So we. 00:26:08
Staff side not seeing the impact on safety or that it would be manageable. Planning Commission disagreed and thought that the. 00:26:09
That the safety of. 00:26:16
The surrounding neighborhood. 00:26:19
Using this narrow Rd. for pedestrian bicycle access would be hindered by. 00:26:21
The additional units. 00:26:25
Thank you. 00:26:28
Why? 00:26:29
I mean. 00:26:30
Isn't very wide and it's wider. 00:26:32
For example, if. 00:26:36
A garbage truck was picking up garbage cans along that street. 00:26:37
With another car being able to get around. 00:26:40
No, that road is. When I measured it on an aerial view on the county assessor site, it was 20 feet. 00:26:43
I think that the property owner measured it at about 18 feet, so it is really narrow on the park side. There is no parking that's 00:26:50
allowed. 00:26:54
The property owners property is described up to the edge of the asphalt. 00:27:00
So there are some parking areas that are on the north side, but they're. 00:27:05
Created by the property owners. 00:27:10
On private property. 00:27:12
So sometimes cars will park on private property size side thinking that it is. 00:27:14
A public Rd. but it's. 00:27:19
Owned by the private property owner. 00:27:20
One thing I think I'd like to. 00:27:24
To discuss with the council at some point is, as you recall, very recently the earth shifted beneath our feet from the legislature 00:27:27
with regard to internal AD use. 00:27:32
And we haven't really assessed how the general plan should be impacted as a result of that new. 00:27:37
Force of gravity in the community. 00:27:45
And so though I I I understand staff is is more constrained. 00:27:48
To make their assessments based on the existing general plan. 00:27:54
We haven't really. 00:27:58
Put back into the General Plan or weighed back into the General Plan. 00:28:01
The impact of that? 00:28:05
Gravitational shift. 00:28:07
And so that also explains kind of the difference between staff and Planning Commission, plus new affordable housing mandates. 00:28:10
Right. So, so, yeah, there's a couple of legislative mandates that we really haven't. 00:28:18
Folded into the general right, right. So that may be something we want to tackle or have the staff start to tackle is. 00:28:23
I mean, we don't want to do it in a way that doesn't mess us up with the mandates that we're getting. 00:28:32
And the credit we're going to need to receive for affordable housing with the legislature, but nonetheless we talk about. 00:28:37
Affordable housing and applications that are compared to the language in the Journal plan, well, the General Plan really hasn't. 00:28:44
Taken into consideration. 00:28:53
The more recent mandate we've had placed upon us, but that should be part of our calculus now. 00:28:55
With regard to. 00:29:02
You know justifications for rezone. 00:29:04
And part of that process could also be as we're getting more experience with ADUS generally because it hasn't been. 00:29:06
You know, 80s haven't been a major thing until more recently. 00:29:13
And you know, we've taken our first swipe at how do we define Adus, particularly internal Adus. 00:29:18
Versus externally to use. 00:29:24
We've had some rather. 00:29:27
At one time? Just arbitrary. 00:29:31
Factors for when you can have an external Adu. First there was it could only be half an acre or above. 00:29:36
And then we we we moderated to be either half an acre or twice the size of the lot size within the. 00:29:41
The parameter for like an R110, if you have 20 you can you can do an external Adu so you don't have to subdivide. 00:29:51
But we could also look at other. 00:29:58
Other possibilities for? 00:30:00
You know, if you have a detached garage and you're not expanding your footprint. 00:30:02
You know can you have an Adu within that sort of footprint and not have it considered an externally. So I don't I think those are 00:30:07
things we can look at. 00:30:11
That we can also get credit. 00:30:16
For affordable housing. 00:30:19
But at the same time not take a sledgehammer to something that could maybe use a screwdriver. 00:30:21
When we're talking about getting affordable housing and because because you know, razones are a heavy lift. 00:30:27
And perhaps we can help our citizens kind of get what they want using a little teeny screwdriver instead of a sledgehammer. 00:30:32
But that's my two cents. I think the the primary point being we probably need to review our general plan language for. 00:30:41
You know the general plan terms and then what the appropriate zones? 00:30:51
Would be for the not changing the objectives, but recognizing now in the suggested zones that we now have R ones that are all now 00:30:55
essentially R twos now. 00:31:00
And. 00:31:07
So that's my $0.02. 00:31:08
I have a quick note to you on another main difference with R2 versus an external audio. 00:31:11
External Adu, since they aren't accessory building can be built a lot closer to the property line. So sometimes just depending on 00:31:18
lot size, those could be 5 to 10 feet away from the property line. R2 then has you know 20 foot setbacks, so. 00:31:26
Are to having those regulations moves those buildings. 00:31:35
Or. 00:31:38
Created units inside the lot more so that they're not put on the outskirts of the lot, so maybe less impact on neighbors by 00:31:39
requiring those units to be pulled in. 00:31:45
Yeah, I'm going to jump in here because. 00:31:52
When I saw this application in the packet, I sensed that there might be a lot of. 00:31:55
Conversation and debate because. 00:32:00
Regardless of what you might see on next door or whatever you read. 00:32:03
This council gets pretty serious when people ask for more density in a rezone. We have pretty thoughtful debates about it, and you 00:32:08
can see that we're not done. 00:32:12
And I think we're going to have a lot more in the work session and I was hoping maybe. 00:32:17
We would work our way into. 00:32:21
Some clarity, mostly out of respect for all of you that are here to hear this so you didn't have to stay for the work session if 00:32:25
you want to, but I'm afraid. 00:32:29
That might be the case. 00:32:34
My sense is on this when I mean what I'm hearing is. 00:32:36
Staff is really looking at this. 00:32:41
As a data-driven recommendation to this Council saying. 00:32:44
Here's the application. Here's what the general plan says. Here's what the traffic data says. 00:32:49
We don't have any reasonable reason not to recommend. I don't want to put words in your mouth carrying John any reasonable. 00:32:55
Justification for not recommending this rezone based on what we have put in our own general plan and what the traffic engineers 00:33:04
are telling us. 00:33:08
And I think. 00:33:13
You know, from my personal standpoint. 00:33:14
I look at this as the entries into this rezone application do not penetrate the neighborhood. In my mind. They come in and then 00:33:17
they go right onto 4500 S to enter the two lots to the east and and and actually to lot to the West because they have to come on 00:33:22
to. 00:33:27
Make a right on to 45 to go into the garage, right so all three of those enter off of that short stretch off of butternut part so 00:33:33
they don't penetrate the neighborhood. 00:33:39
That. 00:33:45
A question I have and then the other one is be on. 00:33:46
And I'm not asking to answer this. I'm just saying this is what I'm going to wrestle with and I think this council will wrestle 00:33:50
with is. 00:33:52
There are 4. 00:33:56
Items that that the staff puts in front of us in terms of justifying this or what we should think about. 00:33:58
The General Plan, which I think it clearly meets the objectives of the General Plan. 00:34:05
And see does it adversely affect the budding properties? Somebody have to explain how it would to me. 00:34:09
Does it have adequate facilities? It doesn't. 00:34:17
In my mind, there's no justification to say it's going to. 00:34:20
To tax our public infrastructure, to service the properties. 00:34:23
So it comes down to B, which is I think, what the. 00:34:27
What the Planning Commission was really doing is blending in. 00:34:31
Public input into that data. 00:34:36
And B says whether the proposed amendment is harmonious with the overall character of existing development in the vicinity of the 00:34:39
subject property, which is I'm which I'm sure is what I'm going to hear during the public hearing, and that's what I need to be 00:34:44
convinced of. So. 00:34:49
That's a long winded way of saying. 00:34:55
You're gonna hear for those that want to stay. 00:34:57
Will be discussing this again in the work session. 00:35:01
So. 00:35:04
Thanks, Kerry. Yeah, any other questions or? 00:35:06
Yes, there will be. 00:35:08
OK. If it's if it's OK with the council, we've got another presentation and a couple of. 00:35:12
Items, we got to vote before we get to the work session and then I'll just tell you right now we've got a pretty long presentation 00:35:19
from Unified Police in the work session. 00:35:23
And I've assume we'll get to more discussion on this. 00:35:28
In the work session, my best estimate is probably. 00:35:32
8:00-ish, I'm sorry, but that's the best we can do. We're trying to be as respectful as possible. That was a long conversation 00:35:36
that we usually don't have during a regular session. Mayor just and it is if for those that wanted to to, it is broadcast live 00:35:43
also so they could return home and watch it and or listen in remotely. Is that correct? That's right, yeah. 00:35:50
OK, so with that. 00:35:58
I'm going to open up the public hearing on this rezone application. Is the are the applicants here? 00:36:02
Why don't we hear from the applicant first And then I'm going to read into the public record some comments we've got from people 00:36:11
online and then we'll start asking those that want to address the council to come up. So again, name and address please. 00:36:17
My name is Dan Kemp. I'm the property owner at 4437 Butternut. 00:36:23
And I know the other property owner on the middle lot is here as well. 00:36:28
So just to give you a little bit of background because we're all confused and I was too because I purchased the property with some 00:36:32
misunderstanding. So the property is an 8000 square foot lot or was wouldn't it I guess was built with ivory. They stole a short 00:36:40
small little piece and so it became 7000. 00:36:48
900 or something like that. 00:36:57
So that they could do the sidewalk. So it's not even really quite 8000, but. 00:36:59
I'm a retired military and I'd like to do things by the book and with the rules. And so I I before I purchased the home, I 00:37:06
contacted the city to ask if I could rent out the the DU under the garage because I was interested in doing that. If I purchased 00:37:11
it, I was told I could. 00:37:17
Because it was on 45 zero S but in reality when I purchased it and then went in to put in my request for a business application, 00:37:23
it was told to me that I couldn't because it's not the 66 foot wide 45th South and so it was impossible. 00:37:31
So being the. 00:37:40
Citizen I am, I wanted to figure out how it could be done properly. 00:37:43
And with in accordance with the city laws. So I investigated the property and thought maybe the our two situation might be the 00:37:46
answer. 00:37:51
And I thought that it was so we. 00:37:56
With myself with the other two. 00:38:00
Properties to the east decided to go ahead and put in a request for the R2 zone change. 00:38:02
We had a meeting. We determined that since my lot was. 00:38:07
100 feet shy or so of 8000 square feet that it used to have that I would not be able to do it with an R2, but that I could maybe 00:38:14
buy 100 feet, 150 feet of property from my neighbor and. 00:38:21
Achieve it that way, but unfortunately. 00:38:28
That actually was not the case either, because my unit is not attached, it's detached. So after I. 00:38:31
Put forth the request and. 00:38:38
Paid a bunch of money to actually put in for their request. I found out subsequent later that it was actually not possible still. 00:38:40
So as is, the only way I can use the Adu is to. 00:38:47
Have someone from my family live there, like see my brother or something like that, which is interesting and interesting is 00:38:51
interesting because I mean if I rented it to a student. 00:38:56
There's really no change in how many people are living there, what cars are there or anything, but it just means that I can't rent 00:39:01
it. I can't utilize my property like I'd like to. 00:39:05
Which is unfortunate, so. 00:39:09
That's the history behind it. I know that my neighbors to the east would still like the flexibility of an R2 situation. I 00:39:12
unfortunately would not be able to buy 2000 square feet off of our neighbors a lot because at that point they're a lot would be 00:39:18
too small to do what they want to do. So unfortunately, I'm personally in a situation where I can't utilize my property like I'd 00:39:24
like to, which is a little disappointing. We're very disappointing. But you know, you talked about some of the ways to maybe 00:39:30
address that. 00:39:36
Maybe using a screwdriver versus a hammer? 00:39:42
And there is, you know, like you mentioned. 00:39:45
The fact that there's all the affordable housing movements and the desire to have AU's available. 00:39:49
I think you've seen. 00:39:55
Most of you are familiar with my property. 00:39:56
And I think it could be well said that. 00:39:58
It's a very. 00:40:01
Nice situation. It doesn't seem like the lots too small. the AU could provide some affordable housing, but it's all based on the 00:40:03
laws and the city code. 00:40:08
So no matter what happens today with the R2 situation, whether it's approved or not, because I know that the other applicants on 00:40:14
the application still likes to approve. 00:40:20
I would like to ask you to ask the city to look at. 00:40:26
Changing the text. 00:40:31
On our general plan for what is and when an Edu can be used. 00:40:32
Because I was also talking with the city. 00:40:38
And I could. 00:40:40
Pay a lot of money again and ask for a text change on that and try to fight it. 00:40:42
And see if that could be changed. But they said that if you direct them to do that, they could actually just go ahead look at it, 00:40:47
see what would be smart and do it. My recommendation would be to remove the double the lot size because my lot is 8000. Even if it 00:40:54
was a 1.1 or 1.2 times the lot size, I still wouldn't be able to use my AU. So that's what I would propose, that maybe you asked 00:41:01
the city to task them to look at changing that burbage. 00:41:08
Maybe even just I I would say take out the lot size altogether and let one of the plans come before the city. At that point 00:41:15
evaluator evaluate whether it makes sense, if it's a good AU plan. 00:41:21
If it has good parking and go from there. So that's just one recommendation I'd like to make. 00:41:28
And then moving forward with our request tonight. 00:41:35
If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. I know that I've been definitely learning a lot about city code and learning 00:41:39
a lot about how city planning and City Council and meetings work, so. 00:41:45
I'm welcome. I'm open to any questions. 00:41:52
Any questions for the applicant? 00:41:55
OK. Thank you. Thanks. 00:41:58
And before I forget, just to be clear. 00:42:00
So you know, we we typically don't. 00:42:03
Vote on these matters at the same meeting. We take time to deliberate so but I do, I do totally anticipate this will be voted on 00:42:07
on October 19th at our next council meeting. It will be agenda for a vote but you won't see a vote tonight if anybody's waiting 00:42:13
for that. OK, thank you. Yeah no I was aware of that. I just wanted to also ask you to in in your deliberation and maybe make a 00:42:20
motion to investigate the verbiage for possible tax change for the AU so they could be utilized because. 00:42:27
From what I'm aware of now. 00:42:34
Because of the verbiage in the city code right now is so restrictive. It's really almost like saying we would like a use but no 00:42:36
one can do them because it's pretty impossible to double the lot size and really make it work. 00:42:42
Do do you? 00:42:49
Do you happen to know, are you referring to an external Edu when you talk about the Yes. OK, yeah, they want double the lot size. 00:42:51
So for example, to utilize my Edu properly under the city code, it would take a lot size of 16,000 square feet. 00:42:57
Which when you look at it with and you see my property and you see what it's there, it doesn't really make sense anyway, so. 00:43:05
So I was just hoping that that would be another recommendation that you would put forward. Yeah, that would really require a 00:43:13
motion, but I get what you're saying if you. 00:43:17
Request a text change. There's a fee associated with it. Where it comes from a council, then it's just direction to the council. 00:43:23
Look into it. 00:43:27
OK. Thank you. 00:43:32
Did the other applicant want to come on up please? 00:43:34
And again, just name and address please, in 3 minutes. My name is important. What's your tone? 00:43:41
43 Right up to the mic, Sir. 4387 Ashford Drive about over my ways of the property. I'm in the middle property. 00:43:47
And the reason we bought this two years ago is just for our children. 00:43:56
And we have three children and 1/2 right now living on the property. 00:44:01
Go to your view. 00:44:06
And then the other work at Lehigh, which is. 00:44:08
Against. 00:44:12
Well. 00:44:14
Rush hour coming to the Salt Lake, so he's happy about the board, happy easy to access the university and the work. 00:44:16
In. 00:44:23
That's all we want. We want to have additional. 00:44:24
A house. 00:44:28
Just for our children. 00:44:29
That that's all beginning of we want to have. We never want to learn to other people other than. 00:44:31
Because. 00:44:37
My my wife won. 00:44:38
Kid to stay close to us and then as you know, the housing is not. 00:44:41
Cheap anymore for them? 00:44:46
And we. 00:44:48
We feel our response we to support them and we can if we can do. 00:44:49
So that's all we. 00:44:54
Want to have? 00:44:55
And then in terms of traffic? 00:44:56
Understand this street Without these streets, more St. these three probably wouldn't can never get out. 00:44:59
So the priority of this small street is. 00:45:06
I understand that is is for for us so that we can get our go along to fortify and itself. 00:45:09
And understand the pedestrians start walking, people walking. I'm happy to see that, because yes. 00:45:16
It's a good exercise people do all the time evening all that, but. 00:45:22
We can do better on this street to provide the safety. 00:45:28
For pedestrian. 00:45:31
That never intended before. 00:45:32
Because this street in 10 basic to me, to my knowledge, from what I see for this probably be able to get out. 00:45:34
Because this part next to it. 00:45:42
Without this tree. 00:45:44
These three probably won't be able to get out and move on. 00:45:46
So that's. 00:45:50
Umm. 00:45:52
We either have this is 20 feet wide St. 00:45:53
That we either can have on the South side to have a sidewalk for kid. 00:45:59
For anyone walking from school because. 00:46:04
You still have enough. I don't know what's the width of the street legally. 00:46:06
So 12 feet. So you do have 8 feet, 4 feet of sidewalk you can do and. 00:46:11
Like you said, this street small. 00:46:18
And. 00:46:20
I don't know what is intent for two way two way car to go. 00:46:23
Around about, but you know. 00:46:28
To me is. 00:46:30
Same narrow and you can see the. 00:46:32
The loan on the. 00:46:35
Pot. 00:46:38
Getting deteriorated and then the sprinkler head got hit and you can see our damage there because the two car passed by Barry and 00:46:39
him. 00:46:43
Any space towards so the future you can either. 00:46:47
Make it 1 way. Discourage people that around neighborhood to come here. Take a shortcut to avoid fortifying the cell. 00:46:51
So. 00:46:59
All we want just one additional home for our kid. 00:47:02
And. 00:47:06
That's all we want. 00:47:06
Thank you. Thank you. 00:47:09
OK, with that I am going to open up the public hearing. 00:47:13
Before I invite people to the podium. 00:47:17
I want to read into the record. 00:47:20
Comments we've received via e-mail. 00:47:23
And I'll just remind, you know, certainly everybody is welcome to address the council, but you know, if if it's all going to be 00:47:26
the same comment, if somebody wants to speak on behalf of a group, that would be appreciated too. 00:47:32
All of the following have submitted comment via e-mail to the City Council. We've all received them. 00:47:39
Chris. 00:47:46
I apologize if I mispronounced Chris Brusso. 00:47:47
2392 E 45 Zero S Sarah and Tom Collins. 2461 Melanie Drive. Mark Crockett, no address. Alicia Durr 2413 E Butternut Circle, Lynn 00:47:52
Woodruff and Amanda Hales. Brittany Minuchin, all that I don't have an address on, but I assume we're in the vicinity. 00:48:03
Joan Momer Momer, 4634 Butternut Road, and Chris Tumor, 4405 S Briarwood Circle. All of these were submitted to the Council in 00:48:13
opposition to this application. 00:48:20
Ones that there were some that were in favor, but those were part, I believe, of the Planning Commission summary. 00:48:29
And not submitted for this public hearing. 00:48:35
So I have all of those on record as being in opposition to this application and are on the record for this particular meeting. The 00:48:38
public hearing is open and as a reminder, please state your name and address and try to keep it to 3 minutes or less unless you 00:48:44
are speaking on behalf of a larger group, in which case take 5 minutes. 00:48:51
Come on up. 00:48:58
Hi, my name is Alicia Durr. I'm at 2413 E Butternut Circle. 00:49:04
Umm. 00:49:09
In the General Plan, there are four goals that I know you're all aware of. 00:49:11
I don't believe this rezone fits any of those goals. The first one to maintain the established pattern of development of the city, 00:49:16
which is 45th South. This is not 45th. 00:49:21
I understand increasing density on 23rd, 45th. 00:49:26
But as we've stated, it's on a small St. 00:49:30
This is a street that connects. 00:49:33
Our lower neighborhood to the upper neighborhood. So this is a very important lane that we use to drive to access wander safely 00:49:35
without having to pull out on the 45th, make a left. 00:49:42
And then another left. 00:49:48
Where that that crossing of Wander on 45th is already a pretty unsafe place. 00:49:50
So I appreciate having this lane to be able to access Wonder lane safely. 00:49:57
But it is problematic and I. 00:50:01
Even though I know that they stated that the street engineer or the traffic engineer. 00:50:04
Said it wouldn't have an impact. 00:50:09
For already a problematic St. 00:50:11
It would impact and and I know that the owners, current owners. 00:50:14
Have a vision. 00:50:19
If it is changed to an art tone that R2 that does open it up if they were to sell it to be able to put. 00:50:22
You know, right now there's. 00:50:29
123 units. 00:50:31
Promote understand from the Planning Commission meeting 4 units on the middle and two on the end. 00:50:33
The other question that I had is if. 00:50:39
If it is legal. 00:50:42
As I understand, for Dan to be able to have his family live there in that accessory dwelling. 00:50:43
And that's the use that the current owners have stated for building something for their family. 00:50:49
I'm wondering why the need for changing the R2 zoning if that's all that they want to do is to be able to house their own family 00:50:56
on those lots already. 00:51:01
So my concern is. 00:51:05
Changing the R2 does open it up to other development in which you could subdivide it even more. 00:51:07
Um. 00:51:14
The third thing in the General Plan does say that retaining the natural character of the city and its neighborhoods. 00:51:15
There are no R2 properties nor north of 45th South. 00:51:22
And I would say it feels like a very different neighborhood. I think that was a good point on the north side of 45th versus the 00:51:27
South side of 45th. 00:51:31
Even the new development happening on 23rd of the corner of 23rd and 45th is an R18 zone. 00:51:36
And my question is if ivory already came in and we already fulfilled? 00:51:43
The mandate of the general plan to be able to increase density. 00:51:48
There were those three lots that were changed to an R18 zone just three years ago. 00:51:52
So why are we revisiting this so soon afterward? To be able to accommodate. 00:51:57
A proper a development that with an AU that or you know with the apartment underneath. 00:52:02
That shouldn't have been built been built that way in the 1st place since it was not built to code, but we already did accommodate 00:52:08
them to increase density and go from an R110 zone to an R18 zone in order to build those 3 new properties along Butternut Rd. 00:52:15
Um, the other thing that the city planner. 00:52:23
Said with the the middle property. The Squire family lived in that middle property for the past 50 years. 00:52:27
And it wasn't a duplex. 00:52:33
The Square family lived there and had, you know, their garden on the scene, so there isn't a history of duplexes in this 00:52:37
neighborhood. 00:52:40
Um. 00:52:44
Let me just. 00:52:46
If there was anything else. 00:52:48
The last concern that I do have is with the parking. 00:52:54
Because that is such a narrow St. and you put that many units on. 00:52:58
On the corner property with the apartment underneath, there is no additional parking for someone to park. 00:53:02
He's he said before that he wants someone to park on the right side, but there's no way to park on the right side of that driveway 00:53:08
without blocking. 00:53:11
The garage. 00:53:15
So you're unable to get two cars into that garage if you have someone designated parking over there. 00:53:16
And and as you increase that and you have most people have two cars per unit. 00:53:21
Having that much, I I'm very concerned about how do you fit two cars with that many units where there is no street parking there? 00:53:27
I understand increased density on a wide Rd. of 65 feet, right? But we went out and measured. 00:53:35
We measured 16 to 17 feet when we went out with our. 00:53:42
To measure what that tree is. So it is small. 00:53:47
There would be no additional parking unless they. 00:53:50
They were to spill over onto Wander Lane. 00:53:53
Or over onto Betternet where it's a a kid heavy neighborhood and. 00:53:56
And I'm. 00:54:02
You know, I wanted to keep it really safe and keep the character of our neighborhood, so thank you for your time. 00:54:03
Thank you. 00:54:08
Anybody else? 00:54:17
Ben Butler. 00:54:26
I live at 2419 E Butternut Circle. 00:54:27
And I'd like to say I'm opposed to this. 00:54:31
I think that. 00:54:34
In addition to there being a parking problem, and then it's against the character of the neighborhood. 00:54:36
I think. 00:54:42
Changing this to R2 creates a very complex pattern of ownership. 00:54:43
We're going from three current owners to potentially 6-7 current owners if it were R2 and fully. 00:54:48
Developed. 00:54:56
I think what these properties owners are asking for is a very clear example of. 00:54:58
Why your Adu rules? 00:55:04
In this town are. 00:55:07
They make no sense. 00:55:09
I don't understand why you would choose to have an Adu. 00:55:11
That required. 00:55:15
Wide a double lot would be a requirement for an Adu that doesn't. 00:55:17
Why wouldn't you just subdivide the lot? 00:55:21
It doesn't make sense. It doesn't. 00:55:24
Helped to achieve the goal of. 00:55:26
Providing low cost housing. 00:55:29
And. 00:55:31
You know, owners supervised. 00:55:33
Rentals. 00:55:35
Does anybody know the history on that? 00:55:38
No, just just so you know, we don't typically. 00:55:41
Get in back and forth during public comment. 00:55:44
This is just your opportunity to address your council, and if you've got an opinion on that, we're happy to take it. But we're 00:55:47
not. We don't get into. 00:55:51
Back and forth debates, OK, during during public hearing. That I think, is a very important question. 00:55:54
That's. 00:56:01
This makes very apparent. 00:56:02
Thank you. 00:56:04
Thank you. 00:56:05
Yeah, it's going to stay open. So if you, you know, just come on up when you're ready, if you want to address the council and when 00:56:07
we don't have anybody else, we'll close the public hearing. 00:56:11
OK. 00:56:22
So given there's no more public comment on this particular rezone, we're going to close the public hearing. 00:56:25
And. 00:56:32
Yes, Sir. 00:56:34
A little bit. 00:56:38
No, we don't really get into a back and forth rebuttal. I the. 00:56:39
I'll just say that the Council's pretty familiar with this issue. 00:56:44
And if we have other issues, or if we have other questions between now and the work session and the time we actually vote this, I 00:56:49
can guarantee you they'll clarify their position before they take a vote. 00:56:55
So I'll just remind everybody that we will be addressing this again and you can hear it. You can stay here if you would like. 00:57:02
But also as council member Brewer said, if you want to log on, where would they go for that? Stephanie, just under the city 00:57:10
website? 00:57:13
That's an agenda. 00:57:19
If you want to. 00:57:21
Listen to it at home. If you don't want to stay, that's fine too, but this will all be an open discussion that we'll have. 00:57:22
Amongst the Council and then it will be on the agenda on the 19th for a vote and. 00:57:28
I thank everybody for coming. So public hearing is closed. 00:57:37
All right. 00:57:40
So we are moving on now to item number six, which is the I 215 shared use path and we have representatives from. 00:57:41
Orox engineers here to review this with the council and it's in your packet. 00:57:48
Thank you. Good evening Mayor and Council members. Thank you for having us back. We always love coming to present to the city 00:57:53
here. I will try and go quickly. You have a lengthy agenda and work session ahead of you it sounds like. 00:57:59
I am going to give you an overview of the I 215 Shared Use Path feasibility study. It rolls off the tongue. 00:58:06
This was a very high level study that the city moved forward with utilizing a grant from the Wasatch Front Regional Council to 00:58:13
look at a very high level what some of the opportunities were for creating a grade separated walking and biking pathway adjacent 00:58:20
to 2:15 and some of you dots right of way that is not currently being utilized. 00:58:27
Stephanie gave me all the power here. 00:58:35
What should I be pointing it at? 00:58:40
We can see that one. 00:58:43
Ohh, there we go. OK. 00:58:48
All right. So this was a very quick study. As I mentioned, we launched it this summer. 00:58:50
And we did kind of a quick burn of collecting some existing data, looking at adopted plans, community goals. We met with 00:58:55
stakeholders three times over the summer and into the fall to talk about kind of the vision for active transportation in this 00:59:01
area. What we were trying to connect into that included adjacent cities, it included UDOT, it included various members of the 00:59:06
public. 00:59:11
And the Wasatch Front Regional Council, we did a public survey as well and so we have some results to share with you for that too. 00:59:17
Maybe. 00:59:34
Sorry. 00:59:45
You're gonna have to help me. 00:59:46
No problem. 00:59:48
There we go. So this is the study area we looked at this orange line. Here is the alignment that's between 2:15 and the noise 00:59:50
walls and. 00:59:54
The private property owners. This is the part of 215 that it extends from Canuteson Park. 00:59:59
To Highland Drive. 01:00:05
Next slide please. 01:00:09
So this. 01:00:11
Pathway alignment was born out of the Mid Valley Active Transportation Plan. Holiday was a participant in that included many 01:00:13
cities and the goal of that was to build a regional active transportation network that transcended city boundaries and connected 01:00:19
people to. 01:00:24
Commercial recreation, other things like that, so. 01:00:30
The Mid Valley Active Transportation Plan came up with this as a recommendation largely from public feedback. 01:00:34
And then the Wasatch Front Regional Council worked closely with UDOT and the city to get this incorporated in the latest version 01:00:41
of their Regional Transportation Plan, which is kind of the long range vision for transportation improvements along the Wasatch 01:00:46
Front. 01:00:52
And it is a phased approach between now and 2050 and projects are prioritized into 3 phases. This project was prioritized into 01:00:58
phase one, so the the most important and most recent phase. 01:01:04
That's certainly not a mandate, but it was highlighting the fact that this was a priority to the community and probably fairly 01:01:10
feasible to implement in a timely manner. 01:01:14
And there's there is a cost assumption that went with that. The cost assumptions in the regional transportation plan are pretty 01:01:20
high level. 01:01:23
They are based on kind of planning level design and kind of assumptions about what materials cost today and into the future. 01:01:27
Next slide please. 01:01:36
Thank you. So one of our goals was to look at how do we connect people to local and regional destinations. 01:01:53
Again, we know that Wheeler Farm is a huge destination. The trail access and the canyons. There are also daily destinations that 01:02:01
can be accessed off of 2300 E Highland Drive up by Knutson of course. 01:02:07
And then into the what we know as the existing and future active transportation network, what's planned in the future, how do we 01:02:14
connect into that for folks? 01:02:18
Next slide please. 01:02:22
Some of our goals also were about. 01:02:25
Providing safe and direct connections for people of all ages and all abilities. 01:02:28
Separated paved pathways do that really well. They're really comfortable, they're really safe. You're avoiding conflicts with 01:02:33
other vehicles. 01:02:36
It, you know, promotes that alternative mode. If there is a nice safe, direct connection for walking and biking, people are more 01:02:40
likely to take that than drive. 01:02:45
And of course, it's something that we've heard from this community as important. 01:02:49
And we heard that a lot in our stakeholder. 01:02:53
Meetings. We actually had one meeting out at the park and kind of walked around and looked at what those alignments might look 01:02:56
like. 01:02:59
As well as our online survey, we heard that. 01:03:02
Next slide please. 01:03:05
So going into this, we knew just generally some of the potential concerns from the community were going to be about privacy to the 01:03:09
adjacent properties and parcels along 215. 01:03:14
And so we wanted to make sure that whatever we were looking at and kind of designing in terms of alignment was really cognizant of 01:03:20
people's private property and privacy and safety behind their home. So that's something that we looked at. This is just a map 01:03:26
showing all the private properties, which are the parcels in blue and then kind of that Gray area is what we were looking at for 01:03:31
alignments. 01:03:36
And then, of course, the connection into the park. 01:03:42
Next slide please. 01:03:44
These are some examples of both locally and kind of in our neighborhood, Colorado of other. You go back to the previous slide, I 01:03:47
just want to make sure I understand the Gray. 01:03:53
The Gray shading area. So you're saying the path would be on the on on the South side of the Gray. 01:03:59
Yes. But yeah, basically the trail alignment, yeah, kind of is the line between the dark Gray and the, the light Gray, roughly. 01:04:07
OK, good. Hey, thanks. Umm. 01:04:12
So here's some other examples that we wanted to look at for, you know, when we start to put pen to paper here, how might we design 01:04:18
this so that it is private? It does protect property owners, access is not easy and nobody gets any bad ideas. And it's still 01:04:22
beautiful. 01:04:27
Next slide. 01:04:32
Here's another example of that, again, adding privacy walls, adding we heard a lot about landscaping and beautification as kind of 01:04:35
a long term goal and long term vision for this area. 01:04:40
So here is another example of other communities that are doing that next slide. 01:04:45
Here is our first stakeholder meeting. We really focused on visioning and goals for this corridor. Again, this included Cottonwood 01:04:50
Heights and UDOT and other kind of special interest groups that have ownership or interest in this area and this network. 01:04:56
We did a great mapping exercise where we looked at potential alignments. We documented everybody's comments about you know some of 01:05:03
those concerns about property and and intersection, connectivity and safety and things like that. So this was kind of the 01:05:09
information gathering phase. 01:05:14
Here are some more documentation of that. And then we kind of crafted a vision statement as a group. 01:05:22
Including UDOT and we were looking at developing A backbone facility that provides safe East West access for people walking and 01:05:27
biking. 01:05:31
And that connects to the existing and future active transportation network. 01:05:36
We also launched a public survey. We did the Canuteson Park event. We pushed information out on social media about this to direct 01:05:41
people to the survey and give them some background information. And then we had some Flyers up at some of these locations and 01:05:46
partners. Next slide. 01:05:52
We had 187 responses on our survey and received 100 e-mail contacts. 01:05:59
For folks, this was the flyer that we distributed. It was open for just about a month and 1/2. 01:06:06
Next slide. 01:06:12
We had some open-ended questions and then we had some multiple choice and select all questions. 01:06:14
People want to use this connection to recreate. They want to use it to access businesses on Highland Dr. They want it to kind of 01:06:18
create a bigger and more complete bicycle network that avoids busy roadways. 01:06:24
Next slide. 01:06:31
Most people that took the survey live around the park and that portion of 215. 01:06:33
Next slide. 01:06:39
And most people want to access businesses, access the park and use it for recreation. 01:06:41
Excited. 01:06:47
That we ask people to rank things in order of their personal preference and importance. 01:06:49
It was most important to people that whatever we put out there is wide enough for both people walking and biking to avoid 01:06:55
conflicts between active modes, which you know. 01:06:59
If you are a trail user, our trails are heavily used and heavily loved, so we're getting wider and wider and wider as we continue 01:07:04
to build these things. 01:07:08
Safe pedestrian crossings at those intersections that introduce cars into that pathway are really important to folks. 01:07:12
And then landscaping and beautification. 01:07:19
Separation from 2:15 in the path, right? There were some concerns of like is this going to be really noisy? Is this going to be 01:07:21
uncomfortable or unpleasant if we put this here? 01:07:26
We actually did go walk out there with UDOT and it's not as loud as you might think. So there are definitely some opportunities 01:07:30
there and then of course being able to access the the trail from the park. 01:07:36
This was our second stakeholder meeting out at the park. 01:07:43
That's the back of Heather's head. I forgot to introduce Heather Hamilton here. She's our designer on this. She's going to 01:07:48
actually walk through the alternatives with you that she's been working on. 01:07:51
And so this was a really great kind of boots on the ground experiment of like, OK, what is the grade really look like? What type 01:07:55
of vegetation is out here? What are the trees that are out here? What does this easement look like? Where is that? How might this 01:08:01
impact positively or negatively the easement language? We did get a great opinion from John and the city on the easement and and 01:08:07
feel like this does meet the intention of that easement and there are possibilities and opportunities for. 01:08:13
Connecting the trail through this area. 01:08:19
And I will pass it off to Heather now to walk you through the alternatives that we developed. And then there's there's four total 01:08:23
we we're kind of able to combine them into basically two that we think are kind of preferred. So we'll we'll narrow it down here 01:08:27
at the end for you. 01:08:32
Yeah. Good evening. 01:08:39
So a little background on the alternatives. 01:08:41
We'll get into it further in the presentation. 01:08:44
But. 01:08:47
To the east of the park we kind of broke this into two separate sections, the main section which is east of the OR sorry, West of 01:08:48
the park to Highland Drive. 01:08:53
And then we have 4 alternatives for connecting into the park. 01:08:59
So that's those are the four alternatives I'll go through 1st. 01:09:04
So you guys are probably familiar with the park there. It's pretty there's this. 01:09:08
Mountainous area to the. 01:09:15
Kind of southwest corner, which is where we would connect in. 01:09:17
We wanted to provide access to both the park and also the trail networks to the east, so that's why we chose this. 01:09:21
Tying in point. 01:09:31
I can point on here anyway, but down where you see those electric poles? That's kind of intended to provide access in both 01:09:33
directions. 01:09:36
So with these four alternatives, we had a few different goals in mind that guided them. 01:09:41
For alternative one. 01:09:47
We really wanted to take the feedback that of having two separate paths for both bikes and pedestrians. 01:09:48
So this alternative provides a 5% grade which meets ADA compliance. 01:09:55
And then the 11% grade would be a more direct bicycle access. 01:10:01
Is an 88 compliant but allows bikes to kind of bypass people that are walking faster route for those that are. 01:10:07
You know, trying to go from point A to point B. 01:10:15
Umm. 01:10:17
This option is about 2.4 million for just the park section. 01:10:20
For the park plus the area to the West, it's 11.1 million. So you'll see that on all these slides the total cost includes. 01:10:28
What's to the West as well as this in the park? 01:10:36
Umm. 01:10:40
You can go to the next slide please. 01:10:41
So this is just kind of a profile view of what's happening with those two different routes. 01:10:44
The 5%. 01:10:51
A grade versus the 11% grade. So you can just kind of visually see. 01:10:54
How? 01:10:59
One would be more comfortable for people. There's about a 35, I forgot to mention a 35 foot elevation difference from the bottom 01:11:00
to the top. 01:11:04
That we're trying to connect here, which is why that alternative. 01:11:09
Zigzags through the park so much. 01:11:12
We go to the. 01:11:16
Next. 01:11:17
This option we were trying to just. 01:11:19
Make it as most as cost effective as possible. 01:11:25
So we tried to follow the existing topography. With that, we're only able to have just the one route, 5% grade. Any connections 01:11:28
between there wouldn't. 01:11:33
Be able to be a direct. 01:11:39
Pat. 01:11:42
As you'll see later, we have a suggestion to add to this, but we'll get into that with this option. It's 1.2 million for the park 01:11:43
area and 9.9 million total. 01:11:49
Here's just that profile again showing 5% you can see. 01:11:57
The yellow dotted line represents the existing surface there, so this option just kind of follows that. 01:12:00
Close more closely than the other, which is why the cost is lower. 01:12:07
All these options would require retaining walls, so that's driving a lot of the cost in these it's. 01:12:13
There's a lot of earthwork and retaining walls involved. 01:12:19
Next slide please. 01:12:23
Alternative three. So this one was intended to try to avoid the easement altogether that darker green area. 01:12:25
So this one would stay within EU dot right of way. 01:12:32
It. 01:12:37
Is a little bit steeper grade 8% which. 01:12:38
Is. 01:12:42
It does mean 8888 compliance as long as you include ADA landings along the way. 01:12:44
So it's a little bit more expensive than materials that way. This, as I mentioned, this is a 35 foot elevation difference. 01:12:50
Through this area, so we're having huge cuts. 01:12:58
To get from the top to the bottom, you'd have huge retaining walls on both sides. 01:13:01
Up to like 1520 feet tall. 01:13:06
So it's expensive, could be a little bit uncomfortable for bikers, it's a little steep. You have bikes coming down that. 01:13:09
Quickly in the same space that people are walking. 01:13:16
Umm. 01:13:22
That total cost 10.3 million. Can you go to the next please? 01:13:23
Here's that profile view again, just showing that 8%. 01:13:30
You can go to the next slide. 01:13:34
So alternative 4 this is kind of the cake option. 01:13:36
This one would. 01:13:42
Have 5% or less through the whole route. 01:13:44
It would stay within UDOT right away. It would involve a bridge over the existing Rd. There it kind of same elevation as 2/15. 01:13:50
And then it would. 01:13:59
Come down the slope and tie into the north. 01:14:00
End of the park up there at the parking lot, so we just gradually just come down the side of the hill there. 01:14:05
This one is the most expensive 17.2 million obviously because of that structure Benefit is that. 01:14:11
It's a very comfortable grade. It's kind of a. 01:14:18
Pretty structure for your city. 01:14:22
And it stays out of that conservation easement as well. 01:14:26
You can go to the next slide. 01:14:30
So this is that section to the West that I was mentioning where we broke it up into. 01:14:33
We broke it up two parts here, 2000 E to 2300 E and then 23 to Canute Sins. 01:14:40
And we don't have different alternatives for these options. I mean, they're kind of all comparable, so. 01:14:47
I'm good. 01:14:53
Yeah, so this is just showing that those alternatives. 01:14:57
We're all at the park only. You can go to the next slide please. 01:15:00
So here's a summary of those cost differences. 01:15:05
The cheapest one is option 2, which is the one where we try to follow the topography. 01:15:09
We just have the one 5% route that just kind of. 01:15:14
Meanders up the hill and then obviously the most expensive is the bridge. 01:15:18
Again, walls are a huge part of these costs and I should also point out that these are very, very high level cost estimates just 01:15:24
to kind of to help you guys Dr. funding decisions and more of a. 01:15:30
Comparative estimate also for deciding between alternatives. 01:15:36
And go to the next slide. 01:15:41
So based on the feedback we got from the second meeting in the park, as people kind of walked through taking the survey 01:15:43
recommendations we developed, we kind of narrowed down to two options. 01:15:50
That we think. 01:15:58
Are good options. And. 01:16:00
And I can explain why to go to the next slide. 01:16:02
So this one on the left is kind of a combination of the 1st 2 alternatives. 01:16:06
The connecting path there would actually be more of like a stairway, or it may have to kind of zigzag up. 01:16:13
So you could still have that meander, but then for those that want a quicker direct route, you could have just kind of a stairway 01:16:20
there option to connect down. 01:16:24
Umm. 01:16:29
And then alternative four is great. 01:16:31
Because you know, it is a nice feature for the city and stays out of the conservation easement. 01:16:34
So that's. 01:16:41
Yeah, there are options. You go to the next slide. 01:16:43
I don't know, Alexis is a little bit. 01:16:47
More informed on this part. 01:16:49
This is sort of a next step slide and we can maybe table it for a second and and answer any of the questions that you have about 01:16:52
what we ran through. But basically I think there's several great ideas. 01:16:57
This trail would be pretty attractive for I think the Transportation Alternatives program would be one that comes to mind. 01:17:34
And I think this. 01:17:42
Would be a great thing to kind of pursue that way. Most of these funding sources, if they're federal, they require between about 7 01:17:45
to 20% match requirements. So the city would have to come up with. 01:17:50
That percentage of the the cost and and you could use these grant funds to do. 01:17:56
The final design work which you would absolutely need to do, and then you can also fund construction with them. 01:18:00
Any questions? 01:18:07
So what's the? So what's our charge here? Is it to? 01:18:09
Bring this up in a work session and go back over and then come back with a recommendation. 01:18:13
John, what direction are you? We're not are we making a decision tonight? No. What we're looking at is, is, is is is a high level 01:18:18
study that's been prepared for you to show you some alternatives get us in a really good position with with U dot in the state and 01:18:23
while such regular council. 01:18:28
If we have a package ready to go, shovel ready that we can apply for, yeah, so we can. We can talk about this a little bit later 01:18:34
with when we get into depth and all the alternatives and find out what exactly what you'd like to see. Yeah, perfect. I mean this 01:18:39
looks great. I mean just off the top of my head, I think it's going to be. 01:18:44
Hard to justify seven $8 million for a bridge right? Is what the wrong spot? What's that? The drop shot in the wrong spot. I also 01:18:50
have some concerns about the West End though, and where that drops off into kind of a no man's land. OK, but I think there may be 01:18:56
some alternative. 01:19:02
An opportunities there, yeah, but. 01:19:08
Yeah, I think I agree with the the the East End option where you're driving at, but yeah, the the South end. 01:19:10
Is a no man's land. 01:19:19
That you won't get people on or off at that spot unless we have some. 01:19:20
Deeper thinking there, West End, is that what you're saying on the West End on the on the Highland Dr. end, OK, Because that's 01:19:25
right with the freeway off ramp there, that's no man's land for a biker. 01:19:30
And I think there's some alternatives there maybe kind of assume we'll be. 01:19:37
Moving towards that, sorry that. 01:19:41
Hybrid that you've recommended, which I think looks great as long as we're reminding me of that easement, is that's account, is 01:19:44
that a county easement? 01:19:47
Conservation easement. Who's it with? This is an agreement from the county to us to fight conservation and we don't. I'm assuming 01:19:53
we just, we don't have a problem with that if. 01:19:57
That have the alternative we go with. Yeah the path is not a problem, it's. 01:20:02
Any other structure? 01:20:07
Right. 01:20:08
OK. 01:20:09
Well, I know this is Dan's been working on this. Yeah. Yeah. So I I I was part of the working group and appreciate Horrocks and 01:20:11
all the. 01:20:14
Partners we had because we had Cottonwood heights there and we had well, such front. 01:20:19
Regional Council and UDOT and you know we had a big crew there for the for the working group and led by Horrocks and. 01:20:24
And I agree with what? 01:20:33
Paul is saying is that that West End that ends at the hotel is is absolutely a no man's land but but we do as you recall have a 01:20:35
piece in the. 01:20:41
Holiday Crossroad Zone. 01:20:47
Which will ultimately we we will think ultimately will be developed in that that area down there that that has a. 01:20:50
A bike or a pedestrian bike path along at least that stretch of the canal to 6200 S. 01:20:57
That could that could connect the holiday crossroads to. 01:21:03
To that path and then we we discussed. 01:21:07
With I don't think we had anybody from Murray there, but we did discuss. 01:21:13
They're hard group to get potentially connecting to the Murray Trail system. And I think Murray has on the board a kind of a a 01:21:17
shared use path along I-215 as well. And that would be ideal because then that would connect further West and go down to into 01:21:25
Cottonwood Heights, into Murray and Cottonwood Heights and the Wheeler Farm and so on. 01:21:33
And then of course, the piece that we're experimenting with. 01:21:41
Canal Trail at least West of Highland Drive in Paul's district. 01:21:46
You know, so I think right now it's in no man's land, but I think in the future this is going to be a network of of of trails. 01:21:50
I frankly didn't see the use of the bridge myself and it's a very expensive thing, but. 01:22:00
Man, depending on what funding we could get. And it really finishes Canuteson Park because. 01:22:06
Because Canuteson Park is fantastic, but it's definitely not a pedestrian friendly park. 01:22:12
And you know you drive that section. 01:22:20
Yeah. It it you drive to the park and you park in that we have great parking lot great facility but this would this would increase 01:22:23
because this would this would also connect potentially to. 01:22:28
Cottonwood Heights has in mind their own trail system. 01:22:33
That would also sort of Nexus up in that area. 01:22:37
And anyway, I just, I just think this is a great opportunity and and and and we ought to pursue funding. 01:22:41
And see what, see what can come of it. I think it's a great, great plan. Yeah, I think to your point, that's. 01:22:49
That is kind of the next step is once we finalize this, this gives us all the tools we need to see if we can go find some money. 01:22:56
And I honestly think it was incredibly valuable to bring U dot in at this very early stage. They won't be surprised if you submit 01:23:03
an application to them for funding. They do have some great funding sources for active transportation. They were really, it was 01:23:08
really great to see them pouring over maps and coming up with solutions. So they are going to be champions of this for you I 01:23:12
think. 01:23:17
OK, great. 01:23:22
Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. Appreciate it. It's been a great project so far. And by the way, Emily. Emily Gray who 01:23:24
who is? 01:23:28
The council member elect for my seat. She also participated in all the the working group sessions, so she's up to speed as well 01:23:33
so. 01:23:37
Thanks, Emily. 01:23:42
OK. Thank you very much. 01:23:44
We are on to item 7 now. This is the rezone. 01:23:48
That we can, that we had the public hearing on at the last council meeting of the piece down just off of Spring Lane. 01:23:53
Ordinance 2023-12. 01:24:00
From PR 110, So I'll open this up to council before we take a motion. 01:24:03
Any questions or comments? 01:24:11
I think this is a pretty straightforward. 01:24:14
Sale of the LDS Chapel there. It's kind of a rare thing. Maybe that could be more commonplace, I don't know, but. 01:24:17
But the rezone is a zone event. We're fortunate that the application came in as our 1:10. 01:24:25
Because it's consistent with all the neighborhood around the Chapel. 01:24:30
So. 01:24:34
Were you just changed the ordinance number to 13, sorry, 2023 dash 13, OK. And I'd add to that there that there's no. 01:24:35
Real public use that the city could make of that, you know, it's it's close to these huge parks. 01:24:44
It it's sort of sort of in a neighborhood would be very small little park. I just think this is the best use for the land. 01:24:51
How would you like to that Mister Mayor? I move approval of ordinance 2023 dash 13, you say, Stephanie? 01:25:01
Amending the Hardy zone map for property located for rank 30 SW Moore Rd. from P to R110. 01:25:09
I'll second. OK. We have a motion a second. Thank you, Councilmember Brewer. 01:25:15
Yes. Council member Durham, Yes. Council member Fotheringham, Yes. Council member Quinn, Yes. Council member Gibbons, Yes and 01:25:20
chair votes Yes. 01:25:23
That rezone application is approved. Thank you, Council. 01:25:28
The next one is the. 01:25:31
Text amendment, I guess, to Title 13 to internally illuminated fuel price signs within the holiday village zone Ordinance 2023-12. 01:25:34
As I mentioned in the prior work session, I didn't get the sense that there was. 01:25:45
Complete consensus among the Council on how this vote is going to go. 01:25:50
So I would open this up for. 01:25:55
Comment prior to taking a vote and kind of see where people are on this particular issue. 01:25:57
Mr. Mayor, I'll start out. I, you know, so my. 01:26:03
I'm not sure I'm concerned with the. 01:26:07
The physical aspects of the the the ordinance itself with the with the signage what I am concerned about. 01:26:10
Is carving out. 01:26:17
A special class. 01:26:19
You know, it's it's in a limited area, but it's just one industry and what I'm concerned about is that. 01:26:21
Is that we open the door to. 01:26:27
Other merchants of various kinds, restaurants. 01:26:31
As school, you know well, we don't have any schools in the in the, in the, in the zone, but restaurants for example, or other 01:26:35
merchants who might say, well, I want to sign and why? Why does the gas station get one? 01:26:42
And. 01:26:49
I I if it were, if it were a broader based ordinance, I think I might. 01:26:51
Be persuadable to vote for it, but I think in in the, in the. 01:26:56
Posture. It's in right now. I think I'm in no vote. 01:26:59
Just because I don't like the idea of carving it out for this one industry. 01:27:02
Yeah, I would agree with that Dan. And also the the other argument we've been talking about which is we just. 01:27:08
There's the camel's nose. 01:27:14
Argument where we've been able to. 01:27:16
Excuse me, where we've been able to? 01:27:19
Protect ourselves from the Billboard industry. 01:27:21
And their electronic signage, where in the past we've seen the legislature try to say if you're doing electronic signage, then 01:27:24
you've got to allow for electronic billboards. And it was our lack of electronic signage which allowed us to dodge that bullet. 01:27:30
And even though that pretty simple legislation never actually came to fruition. 01:27:35
There's It was kind of a warning shot across the bow that it very well could. 01:27:41
I think I'm actually more concerned about yours. 01:27:47
Being a carve out just because they you, you never know what's gonna happen on the legislative mandate side that that can be kind 01:27:51
of a crapshoot. 01:27:54
The funny thing is, I really don't have any objection. I think it's actually improvement to the village if you allowed what 01:27:59
they're asking for for that specific location. The problem is the precedent. 01:28:04
Not the specific ask for that location, but that's those are the types of decisions we have to make are the ones that set 01:28:09
precedent and I'm a little bit. 01:28:13
Weary, and until I can get some comfort that we're not setting a precedent that all of a sudden opens a Pandora's box, I'm gonna 01:28:17
have to be no too. 01:28:21
I think I share the same concerns of Council Member Givens and Council Member Fotheringham. I was going to use the camel nose 01:28:28
metaphor myself, but sorry. 01:28:32
I also. 01:28:38
Just know that there have been some pretty important community stakeholders that have asked for signs and we've told them no and I 01:28:40
think it would be difficult to sort of explain how we're doing this carve out for a gas station in the village. 01:28:46
So I I I'm inclined to vote now. 01:28:53
I'll just say. 01:28:59
I appreciate what my fellow council members have said I. 01:29:01
This is a tough one, I would say because. 01:29:06
From a pragmatic standpoint, when when Council Member Gibbons mentions carving out something for specific industry. 01:29:09
It's tough because. 01:29:16
I. 01:29:19
Pretty much every gas station that I'm familiar with publishes their prices somehow. 01:29:20
And so it's hard for me to. 01:29:25
From and I'm I wasn't here when the original zone was put in place. 01:29:28
And I can appreciate the desire to keep. 01:29:34
Garish electric signs. 01:29:38
Down to an acceptable level, I guess. 01:29:40
And so I don't know that I like the legislation the way that it's written right now and I would probably vote no for it, but I 01:29:44
would say I think we. 01:29:48
It's really. 01:29:53
We have a bit of a responsibility to find an acceptable solution for them, maybe with some better crafted legislation. 01:29:56
Something that looks at things like. 01:30:02
The luminescence of the lights or, you know, whatever, whatever those characteristics are that that are viewed as undesirable. I. 01:30:05
And it doesn't sit well with me. I guess I would say to not be able to provide some type of a solution. So. 01:30:13
Agree with that too. 01:30:20
Yeah, I I think that's probably where I'm at. I think it's. 01:30:22
Just in some ways it's silly not to allow gas station to put those signs up, but on the same. 01:30:27
Token. When I look at how narrowly the amendment is written inside the code, it really refers to numbers. 01:30:33
And if somebody came and said, and I keep coming back to this, but I don't see the difference between a number and a letter and so 01:30:41
if somebody came and said, well. 01:30:45
I'm willing to meet that same requirement that the gas station is, but I just want to use letters and numbers. 01:30:50
I would have a hard time justifying that, so I'm all for if we can. 01:30:56
They put this code into the zone for a reason when they created the zone, right? Because they didn't want to create. 01:31:01
Garish. 01:31:07
Group of signs inside the village. 01:31:10
So if we could come up with a broader way. 01:31:12
To. 01:31:16
Accomplish that and still allow them to do it. I'd be for it, but the way this is written, I'm going to have a hard. I have a hard 01:31:17
time supporting it as well. 01:31:21
So Drew, I don't know if you want to add my team to that. 01:31:27
Well. 01:31:30
I. 01:31:31
I agree with everything that's been said. I. 01:31:34
Have trouble, I have a hard time. 01:31:37
Treating different. 01:31:41
Treating one gas station that's inside the village differently from a gas station that's outside of the village. 01:31:45
And that's the way it is now. I I feel bad that they they cannot put up. 01:31:51
You know, the sign that they want to put up, on the other hand. 01:31:57
I feel bad that we would. 01:32:01
Allow a gas. You know, if we would allow a gas station to do something that we wouldn't allow anybody else to do. 01:32:04
Inside the village. 01:32:10
And I think for businesses that have been in the village for a long time and have been. 01:32:12
Compliant with. 01:32:17
These. 01:32:18
Restrictions that we have just inside the village, I think that would be. 01:32:19
Really unfair to them and I I. 01:32:24
Again. 01:32:27
I agree with everybody. 01:32:28
This is a hard one, and maybe we will. 01:32:30
At some point, go back and readdress it. 01:32:34
Try and find something that that would work better than the. 01:32:37
Ordinance that we're looking at tonight. But I agree I I think I I'm going to be voting no. 01:32:40
Yeah, and even I know. 01:32:47
I admit I didn't look into it in detail time, but you said sent some. 01:32:49
Options that maybe weren't illuminated that we could look at that. 01:32:54
Allowed. 01:32:58
Some sort of option that maybe didn't. 01:32:59
Wasn't garish. 01:33:02
That we could consider more broadly in the village and not just restrict it to a gas station, I'd be open to that, but. 01:33:04
So Todd, I'm never sure I've had a motion where I know all the votes are going to be no, Is that do we just not take a motion, let 01:33:11
it fail or do we open it and then do no votes or do we take a motion to deny the application? What's the proper way to any of 01:33:16
those work? OK. 01:33:20
Can I make one other comment on on that note? So was it it was the property owner there that that put the? 01:33:25
Came to staff and staff, prepared the legislation like this. I would just say that the the solution I was had shared with the with 01:33:32
the mayor was you know like the the signs that are on Jumbotron type things where it says. 01:33:37
That's Flipboard type things that because I I get it right. Again, it's a gas station. It's common practice to have prices 01:33:43
published. 01:33:47
And it's a hassle to go out and have to flip through numbers of suction cups and you know and and remove them and that kind of 01:33:52
thing. And so I would, I would almost encourage if if that's something that that the gas station is looking for. I would almost 01:33:59
encourage that they explore things that might be acceptable in in that arena so that we could craft some legislation that would I 01:34:07
think honor the original intent of the of the zoning but also make it less onerous on them to. 01:34:14
Have been be broadly accepted in the zone right? 01:34:22
I also wouldn't wouldn't object if if it was. 01:34:26
Whatever ordinance we came up with, if it was expanded to allow it. 01:34:30
A non garish kind of deal for the schools. 01:34:34
I mean. 01:34:37
So we've had, we've had, I think at least two schools come forward to us and say, hey, can we? 01:34:38
Can we put it? We're going to have it. It's going to say this week's teacher, you know? 01:34:43
Teacher appreciation or we got back to school night or whatever. 01:34:47
In. 01:34:50
Of course that's a separate issue from the village because none of those are three separate issue from the village, but that that 01:34:51
would be kind of neat for the school if we're going to allow more generally. 01:34:55
Why not let the schools do it too? I don't know. 01:35:00
Here's the other option, where that gas station is at the very South end of the zone. 01:35:03
Perhaps a rezone? 01:35:09
Yeah, I was thinking the same. 01:35:10
Do you really want to talk about it? No, I'm just, I'm just trying to I that's a brainstormer right there. I'm not. I'm not, you 01:35:13
know, proponent of that. I'm just throwing out ideas. 01:35:18
But maybe that's a good workstation thing instead of in during session. So yeah, Parliamentary question for you though, Todd, you 01:35:23
said any of those options are available. What happens though if the motion is? 01:35:28
To not to deny and it fails. Does that mean it passes because you've got the four two thing? No. You would still require 01:35:33
affirmative votes to pass. 01:35:38
A proposal like this, so it's just that the negative passes, it's a done deal, but if it fails then it doesn't mean the opposite 01:35:44
if if there's if, the application doesn't succeed. 01:35:48
Then it fails by operation of law, whether you. 01:35:54
Do it by silence or by an affirmative negative vote if I could use a bad metaphor. 01:35:57
So. 01:36:03
Either way, I'll just go ahead and do it the normal way. I'll I'll and change the motion, sorry, change it to 14. 01:36:04
OK, so I'll do it the normal way, although I'm going to know just so knowing it's confused. 01:36:13
That I would propose a vote. 01:36:18
An ordinance. 01:36:23
2023-12. 01:36:25
4-14 I'm sorry, you just told me that. 01:36:27
Moved to I'll say move to approve so we know what what direction to vote move to approve Ordinance 2023-14, amending provisions of 01:36:31
Title 13 related to internally on the data. 01:36:36
Fuel signs in the Holiday Village Zone. 01:36:42
Second OK, so we have a motion in a second. So if if, if you would like this. 01:36:45
Amendment to be approved. The vote is yes. If you don't want it to be approved, the vote is no, Correct. OK. 01:36:50
All right, Council member Brewer. 01:36:56
No. 01:36:58
Council member Durham? No. Council member fathering him? No. Councilmember Quinn? No. Council Member Gibbons? No. 01:36:59
And chair votes no and the provision is defeated and. 01:37:05
There will be no change to the ordinance. 01:37:10
OK. 01:37:14
Get that right, Todd? 01:37:15
OK. Thanks, Paul. 01:37:16
All right, no city manager report, Council reports. 01:37:18
We'll start with tie down at the end. 01:37:24
Let's see. Let me pull up on my notes. 01:37:28
Umm. 01:37:32
Few things I did. 01:37:35
The chocolate what's it called? Chocolate milk? Chocolate milk. Judge. The Chalk The Walk wanted to thank Paul for recommending 01:37:37
that it was a it was a great. 01:37:41
Event and it was impressive to see the talent that was on display. I love things like that, that bring you know the sense of 01:37:45
community that brings and all the people that were there and it was great. 01:37:50
And thank the Art Council for and Cheryl and all that they do to to to push those things. Those types of events was great, great 01:37:56
event. 01:38:00
Just and I. 01:38:05
Forget if I mentioned this or not, but Chief Hoyle. 01:38:06
Is it annually on this community police Academy? 01:38:09
Yeah, I I've it's like it's a long program. It was like I think it's a 10 or 11 weeks every Tuesday night I've been going to this 01:38:13
community police Academy and. 01:38:17
I thought that the fire school was long too. It was a full Saturday. This is longer in aggregate, but I I have to say, it's been 01:38:23
really a great every every night that we've gone. It's just been very informative, helped me become less ignorant about all that. 01:38:30
Are. 01:38:39
Police law enforcement officers do in all the different divisions. 01:38:40
And it's really a great thing. So if that comes up again next year, I guess I would just encourage my fellow council members, 01:38:44
frankly, anybody from the community really, there are most of the people that are. There are really just people from the 01:38:50
community. There's 30 or so attendees, but you, you know. 01:38:55
They got, we had a big demonstration on the SWAT teams this last week and on drone surveillance and on canine. The canine units 01:39:01
they they they go through through it also. It's been very good. 01:39:06
The other thing I thought I'd just mentioned is I had a constituent reach out about this and I know that we're coming into winter 01:39:14
and this isn't the time of year at this point, but I've done a little bit more homework on this. 01:39:19
There's some Salt Lake City had a subsidized grass seed program for the for a seed blend that uses 30% less water. And so from a 01:39:24
water conservation standpoint. 01:39:30
And and the problem is, is that Salt Lake City is virtually always out of that seed. And I think it's because it's subsidized and 01:39:38
it's so cheap. 01:39:41
But they do provide four different suppliers, private suppliers where you do still have you have to pay for it and it's more but 01:39:46
it's still in the scheme of things not very expensive. And and so I I just thought I just mentioned that from a we had an issue 01:39:51
recently on water conservation as you all know and and I just thought I would just mention that there's a resource there for this 01:39:56
seed mix that. 01:40:01
In the spirit of conserving water, I think is is just merits general knowledge and it's it's a good thing. 01:40:07
Um. 01:40:13
And lastly. 01:40:14
I think I mentioned earlier in our session, but we do have with there is a fundraising effort underway and Pathways and Associates 01:40:17
has been helping with that that effort. Specifically right now the the the push has been around this funding for video 01:40:25
surveillance and lights of the of the skate park. But in addition to that it's the gazebo and the and the historical walk and 01:40:32
there's a competition going on right now to to to encourage more of a grassroots fundraising. 01:40:40
Effort with prizes that will be awarded on November 2nd when there's a an event to clean the the skate park. 01:40:47
And so that's underway, I thought I'd, I'd mentioned that. 01:40:55
And then lastly, another issue that's reared its head I think prior to me being on the council, but it it was a a big issue at one 01:40:59
point. 01:41:03
Centered around dogs and and the challenges that some of the elementary schools with with off leash dogs and there are city 01:41:09
ordinances for these and I had a constituent reach out very frustrated because of the mass that his kids come home with every. 01:41:16
Very frequently and and out and as I've looked into that and as you all probably know it's a widespread issue that basically every 01:41:24
school struggles with and I've been in contact with Julie Jackson on the Granite school board and they're they're pushing to just 01:41:31
try to it. It's one of those things that I think just takes and I think Chief Oil too as as their as the it's a difficult those 01:41:37
those laws that are on the books holiday. 01:41:44
Code about picking up after dogs and about not having dogs off leash are difficult ones to enforce. Really. Just because. 01:41:51
You have to be there to in the moment to see it and so. 01:41:58
But. 01:42:01
Julie is. 01:42:04
Making a big push to try to address this and. 01:42:06
It's one of those cases, I think, where if if we can't have responsible behavior, then privileges will be lost, I think or or 01:42:09
something to that effect and so. 01:42:13
We don't have a lot of. 01:42:17
Dog parks, you know in in holiday and so I can, I can understand. 01:42:19
Why that would be happening but. 01:42:25
But hopefully our residents and those that are using those. 01:42:28
Using those public properties can be more responsible so that that privilege isn't lost. 01:42:33
That's my report. Thanks, Matt. 01:42:38
Just two or three things. I attended the Crestview Community Council a week or so ago. They have a new principal there and elected 01:42:41
new officers, and they're looking forward to a new year, so I made the connection with. 01:42:47
The new principal and. 01:42:54
I think that will be a good a good relationship I. 01:42:57
I attended the tree committee meeting today and they brought up a couple of things that I think are worth mentioning. One is. 01:43:00
They expressed some concern. 01:43:09
And. 01:43:11
I wouldn't have thought of this, so this is one of the good things of me being on the tree committee. 01:43:12
But with the. 01:43:16
Reconstruction of the entryway. 01:43:18
There were some trees that were lost that they think could have been salvaged and replanted somewhere else and so they were 01:43:20
suggesting that if. 01:43:23
There are other construction projects or or demolition projects or things that this on city property. 01:43:28
Maybe we coordinate with them on? 01:43:34
On what we do with the trees that are there. 01:43:37
Jerome is a Jeremiah elder. Could you say the same? He was, he was there and he. 01:43:42
Is a really helpful kind of. 01:43:48
Exofficio member of the committee and offered to help out with that on a volunteer basis, so I just raised that as something that 01:43:51
maybe we should be aware of. And then. 01:43:55
I talked to John about this a little bit earlier, but. 01:44:00
They they expressed some concerns about the. 01:44:04
Flip the strip program and what happens to the trees that are in this parking? 01:44:09
Strip area or the city the city tree area if the if the turf is removed. 01:44:14
And wanted to talk about and explore ways to maybe make sure that we're protecting the irrigation for the trees and. 01:44:20
Educating our citizens about the importance of continuing to water the trees, even if they take out their turf. 01:44:26
And I really want to thank John John's. 01:44:31
Kind of taking the initiative to help start a discussion on that, but I think that will be an important thing. 01:44:34
For us to think about and those those, those are the two that two or three things for my report. 01:44:39
Just two quick things. First, thanks to Jared, our City Engineer and Chief Hoyle and his team. 01:44:45
We. 01:44:51
But some might have mentioned this in the previous council meeting, but we've put some no parking signs on. Lower Lakewood, 01:44:53
adjacent to the Colwood Country Club, is generally when there are larger events to get parking on both sides of the streets, which 01:44:58
makes it way too skinny for emergency vehicles or for cars to get through. 01:45:04
And so with the no parking on that one side, that's been very effective. And particularly now that that's not just a quick club 01:45:11
events, we've got 3 new homes that were scraped and new construction. And so there's a lot of cars that were on both sides of the 01:45:14
street. 01:45:18
But um, we've made it. No parking on the one side to alleviate that problem. But then. 01:45:22
When there were folks who were not paying attention to those signs, I was able to call Chief Oil and he had his traffic person 01:45:28
take care of that for us. But it's been a success, I think, in terms of improving the safety of the street. 01:45:33
I don't think the the members are a problem anymore and it is created a safer environment. The second thing is just briefly. 01:45:40
The big sculpture on the village Plaza. I hope you've noticed it. It is frigging awesome. 01:45:49
If that's a technical term I can use at City Council. 01:45:55
It's beautiful. I mean, we all on the Arts Council, we were all very excited about it. But of course we're all a little bit 01:45:59
nervous until it actually gets installed, you know? 01:46:03
But now that it's been installed, it's just a glorious addition to the city, and I'm just. 01:46:08
Very proud of our Arts Council for putting that together and and providing that great new piece of art, public art, in our main 01:46:13
village square. It's awesome. 01:46:17
So I have. 01:46:23
True. 01:46:25
Thank you. I was able to go to the Morningside Community Council a couple weeks ago. 01:46:26
And. 01:46:31
Also the Morningside PTA Carnival. 01:46:33
And I was able to be in the booth with a librarian and and we. 01:46:37
Encourage kids to read. We would read to them or they would read to each other. That was a really fun event. 01:46:43
And Speaking of the library, I went there. 01:46:49
This last Saturday. 01:46:52
To. 01:46:54
Just to exchange to get a new book and realize that it was their eclipse. 01:46:57
Preparation for the Eclipse day and I've got to say our holiday library people do things so well. 01:47:03
They had crafts for the kids. They were handing out glasses. 01:47:10
Fort so that you could look at the eclipse without, you know, safely. 01:47:14
And they had telescopes set up people from the planetarium. 01:47:18
Planet. Yeah. Anyway, it was it was a wonderful event. So we really in our library have a great resource and that's it. 01:47:24
This real quick I met since our last meeting. I met with the. 01:47:34
RFP Review Committee for the Holiday Historical Exhibit Experiences. 01:47:38
Project as you recall we've we've budgeted $850,000 for that, including some grant money. 01:47:44
And anyway, Tuesday morning we'll be interviewing. 01:47:51
3 applicants, 33 firms that submitted. 01:47:55
Proposals and so that'll be good and I'm sure there will be a recommendation come to the council sometime after that. So so Holly 01:48:00
and and Gina are also involved as well as. 01:48:06
Sandy Meadows, who's the chair of the Historical Commission. So anyway, we're meeting Tuesday morning and. 01:48:13
That's all I got. 01:48:19
OK. I'm out of the interest of time. First I just want to say remind me. 01:48:21
How fortunate we are to have engaged council members. 01:48:27
Ben Horsley, who's the communications director for granted, always comments on. 01:48:30
How impressed he is. 01:48:35
That our city actually has liaisons that work with our public school infrastructure and actually go to those meetings. 01:48:37
And our engagement on the Elkwood issue, they're not used to that. 01:48:43
And I don't want to take that for granted. I don't think this council should take for granted. 01:48:47
Appreciation grant As for our engagement with our public school infrastructure, like a direct engagement. 01:48:52
And you know, just 22 council members reporting their meetings and I know. 01:48:58
Today's been and I've. 01:49:02
Been remiss in not reaching out to. 01:49:04
But I'll get on that, but we're really lucky to have that and. 01:49:06
We'll be moving over across the hall. We're obviously not going to make the 8:00 estimate. I never know how long this stuff's 01:49:10
gonna go. I apologize. 01:49:14
But we will be starting, we're doing, we do the best we can and I thought we'd get a little bit further in the work session, but. 01:49:19
We have a very important presentation from. 01:49:26
Are. 01:49:29
Our Chief and the UPD about the transition there that we'll be starting with, we'll see how long that goes. It will probably be 01:49:31
fairly lengthy. I'm thinking 45 minutes to an hour and then we'll move right into that butternut discussion. So I apologize for 01:49:37
the delay, but we're doing the best we can and with that I'd take a motion to recess to work meeting. 01:49:43
Mr. Mayor, I move that we recess in to a work session. 01:49:51
2nd. 01:49:56
Motion and second all in favor. Say aye, aye, and we are recessed. We'll move, take a couple minute break and move right across 01:49:58
the hall. 01:50:01