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I can start. | 00:00:43 | |
OK. | 00:00:45 | |
Then we will start. Welcome everybody. I am going to call to order the City Council meeting for the City of holiday on Thursday, | 00:00:47 | |
October 5th. | 00:00:50 | |
And we will start with the pledge if everybody please rise. | 00:00:54 | |
I pledge allegiance to the flag. | 00:01:01 | |
United States of America. | 00:01:05 | |
And to the Republic for which it stands. | 00:01:07 | |
Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. | 00:01:10 | |
OK. Thank you everybody. Before we open public comment, let me just state that we have. | 00:01:19 | |
Two public hearings this evening. Items number four and five. | 00:01:25 | |
I'm assuming most of the people here are going to be here for item number. | 00:01:30 | |
Five, which is the Butternut Rezone public hearing? | 00:01:34 | |
So if you're here for either of those, if you'd Please wait till we open those public hearings to address the Council, we would | 00:01:39 | |
appreciate it. | 00:01:43 | |
If you are here to address the Council on other than those two public hearings. | 00:01:47 | |
We would ask you to come up to the podium and give us your name, address and this would be for the public hearings as well. Name, | 00:01:53 | |
address and try to keep your comments to 3 minutes or less unless you were speaking on behalf of a larger group. | 00:02:00 | |
So other than the two public hearings, public comment is now open. Anybody here to address the council? | 00:02:06 | |
On other than the two public hearings. | 00:02:13 | |
OK, there being none, we will close public comment and we will move to item number 4. | 00:02:20 | |
This will be a public hearing on proposed rezone for property located at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. from R&R 143 zone to an | 00:02:27 | |
R110 zone. | 00:02:33 | |
Counsel, this information is in your packet as well as the staff report and we're going to invite Kerry Marsh up to address the | 00:02:40 | |
Council, cover the staff report and field any questions that the council has before we open up the public hearing so. | 00:02:47 | |
Carry the podium is yours. | 00:02:55 | |
Great. Thank you, Mayor. So this proposed rezone is? | 00:02:59 | |
For properties at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. going from an R143 zone to an R110 zone, the two properties as they exist don't | 00:03:04 | |
conform to the R143 zone. Their lot size is smaller than one acre. | 00:03:13 | |
And the intent of the property owner is to. | 00:03:23 | |
The rezone enables them to move the lot line between neighbouring property that they own on Cottonwood Blvd. | 00:03:27 | |
So it will increase the size of the property on Cottonwood Blvd. And decrease the size of these two properties to about .4 acres | 00:03:35 | |
each. | 00:03:40 | |
And the. | 00:03:45 | |
They want to increase the size of the Cottonwood Blvd. Property because of a large accessory building that they have plans to | 00:03:48 | |
build there. They have a conditional use permit for that accessory building. | 00:03:53 | |
And want to increase some area behind it so that there's more of a buffer between the. | 00:03:58 | |
Between the properties. | 00:04:03 | |
Any questions on that that I can answer? | 00:04:05 | |
I got a couple of questions so. | 00:04:09 | |
There's a property immediately to the South. | 00:04:12 | |
On the same side of the street of Holiday Blvd. That looks like it's an even smaller, nonconforming lot. | 00:04:15 | |
Right. Are there other non conforming lots to the South or is this kind of the further reach of the of the non conforming? | 00:04:21 | |
Pieces. | 00:04:27 | |
I didn't look further South. It looked like that is likely the furthest reach of those nonconforming, but there is likely some | 00:04:28 | |
other properties in that R143 zone that are nonconforming that's fairly consistent in all of our zones. We sometimes end up with | 00:04:35 | |
parcels that are a little bit smaller that were that are legal but nonconforming. | 00:04:42 | |
Yeah. And thanks. And then the other question I had was so the, so the, the back piece of that of those two lots, the Holiday | 00:04:49 | |
Blvd. lots is the there's going to be a conveyance of those. | 00:04:56 | |
Lots to the. | 00:05:03 | |
Well, they all, they're all common owner, but to the property owners on Cottonwood Lane and then those lots will be combined, | 00:05:05 | |
right, So that that'll become. | 00:05:09 | |
A new like 1.5 acre lot, is that right? No, they're going to keep those as two separate parcels. So that's why they're wanting to | 00:05:14 | |
go down to the R110 zone so that they can, ohh, I see I got you. But the but the the lot on Cottonwood, Cottonwood Lane is going | 00:05:21 | |
to remain R143, yes. OK. Yep. Property size on that will increase to about an acre and 1/2. So it won't be able to be subdivided | 00:05:27 | |
even when it takes on more land. Great. Hey, thanks. | 00:05:34 | |
Any other questions? OK. | 00:05:47 | |
Questions from council. OK. Thanks, Carrie. | 00:05:50 | |
All right. With that then we are going to open the public hearing on this application. Well, I guess I should ask first, is the | 00:05:55 | |
applicant here? | 00:05:59 | |
OK. So we will open the public hearing. Is anybody here to address the council on this rezone application? | 00:06:04 | |
Somebody's just walking in. I'll bet they're not here for that either. | 00:06:15 | |
OK. With that then we are going to close this public hearing. Thank you. | 00:06:19 | |
Now item number 5 is a public hearing on proposed rezone for three properties located at. | 00:06:24 | |
4437 E Butternut Road 2475 E 4500 S and. | 00:06:30 | |
2485 E-40. | 00:06:37 | |
500 S from the R18 and R110 zones. | 00:06:39 | |
To an R28 zone. | 00:06:43 | |
Again, we have a pretty extensive. | 00:06:47 | |
Staff report in the packet that the Council has reviewed. We also received a summary of the Planning Commission. | 00:06:52 | |
Hearing on this with all the details that were included in the Planning Commission hearing. | 00:07:00 | |
And I have some comments, but I think and questions but I think I'm going to. | 00:07:07 | |
Reserve all that until we hear the staff report on this and then I would encourage. | 00:07:12 | |
Let me just say that for the audience that's here's typically we'll get a staff report, I have a few questions, we'll open the | 00:07:18 | |
public hearing, sometimes we'll close, sometimes we won't. And then you'll notice on our agenda that that we have a follow up | 00:07:23 | |
where we discussed these public hearings. | 00:07:28 | |
I'm going to try to extend what we cover publicly. | 00:07:36 | |
To get all those questions out in the open, so you can hear what the council has to say at this point. So I don't take up too much | 00:07:40 | |
of your time. But having said that, we still will have follow-up discussion on this in the work session. | 00:07:47 | |
But it may be. | 00:07:54 | |
We'll see how this goes right here. If I feel like we get it all out, then we I may readjust our work session agenda and move it | 00:07:57 | |
to the front. So I don't keep any everybody. If it looks like there's still a lot of discussion to be had after that, I hope I'm | 00:08:02 | |
not confusing you. I'll leave it as agenda and it might be. | 00:08:08 | |
8:00 before we get to that, if that makes sense so. | 00:08:14 | |
Carrie, let's start with your review of the staff report and then I'm going to encourage our council to. | 00:08:18 | |
To start asking questions that they have regarding this application which is a little bit more complicated than the previous one. | 00:08:25 | |
Great. Thank you, Mayor. So this proposal of a rezone as mentioned on the three properties, 4437 S, Butternut 2475 E. | 00:08:37 | |
And 2485 E both on 45th South. | 00:08:48 | |
Um. | 00:08:51 | |
Three separate property owners that joined this application together to rezone to an R2 zone. | 00:08:52 | |
The. | 00:09:01 | |
Main reasons for staff support on this one is that in the General Plan this area along 45th South. | 00:09:03 | |
In a transit corridor is supported to be rezoned to. | 00:09:11 | |
Multifamily transitional, which includes an R28 zone. | 00:09:18 | |
There's multiple zones in that multifamily transitional, including R210R28. | 00:09:22 | |
I think R1. | 00:09:29 | |
For as well. | 00:09:31 | |
With selecting the R28 zone, staff felt that that was the enabled the best use of each individual property based off of those size | 00:09:34 | |
the sizes of the existing properties. | 00:09:40 | |
That would. | 00:09:47 | |
Create. | 00:09:48 | |
The units that the that the applicants are desiring to to create on their own property. It's not an application that's coming from | 00:09:53 | |
a developer. The parcels are not being combined together, so they'll retain and separate ownership, so they're limited just by the | 00:09:58 | |
size of their own property. | 00:10:03 | |
The middle property is. Let's see. We'll start on the first property, which is on Butternut. It's on the corner. | 00:10:10 | |
It is .18 acres and underneath it is. | 00:10:17 | |
Less than 8000 square feet to meet requirements to have two units on that property. It does not. | 00:10:23 | |
Meet those requirements. So that property would not be able to have two rentable units on that. | 00:10:31 | |
And so the R2 zone effectively doesn't. | 00:10:38 | |
Enable them to use. | 00:10:42 | |
The property that they have for more than just a single family. | 00:10:45 | |
There's a possibility with that R2 zone if they were to pick up. | 00:10:49 | |
Some additional land or moving lot lines between neighbors that they could possibly create a a second unit. | 00:10:54 | |
Or use a second unit in that R2 zone, or utilize the R2 zone. | 00:11:02 | |
But as it is, yeah. | 00:11:07 | |
So I'm a little confused in that. | 00:11:10 | |
Although the Planning Commission thought one way, the staff recommendation was positive and yet you know you're saying that but it | 00:11:12 | |
wouldn't comply. | 00:11:16 | |
So I'm confused how there could be a recommendation to proceed from the staff. | 00:11:21 | |
When they don't meet the parameters to. | 00:11:26 | |
To meet to do that. | 00:11:31 | |
Help me understand that. Sure. Incongruence there. Yeah. So the the R2 zone, you can still have a single family dwelling on it, | 00:11:34 | |
so. | 00:11:39 | |
That property, just because of its size, would only be able to have one unit on it. | 00:11:44 | |
If they were to adjust the property size, then they could. Additionally, they could potentially have. | 00:11:49 | |
More than one unit, but it would require. | 00:11:55 | |
Property size adjustment. | 00:11:58 | |
So you can have single units, like an individual unit in an R2 zone that R2 zone. | 00:12:00 | |
You don't have without additional property. | 00:12:08 | |
Nothing really can be accomplished on that one, right? | 00:12:10 | |
And you were talking about the one on the West End of the Yes, Yep, that's on the corner of Butternut and 40. | 00:12:14 | |
Whatever, this side rows 4430 I think. | 00:12:22 | |
So R2 zone. | 00:12:27 | |
Maybe a potential future use? | 00:12:29 | |
The property owner kind of instigated the application and brought in the neighbors that are interested in the R2 zone as well. | 00:12:32 | |
Staff saw it as a potential for a future opportunity if there was some agreements between property owners. | 00:12:42 | |
But as it stands that it that it would not. | 00:12:51 | |
It would not be applicable to have two units. | 00:12:56 | |
On the property. | 00:12:58 | |
So just to be clear. | 00:13:00 | |
The property owner said that they wanted to rent the Adu that's under their garage. | 00:13:02 | |
They can do that without changing the zone, correct? | 00:13:07 | |
With our current code, external which that Adu is an external unit. | 00:13:11 | |
They can't rent the external AU unless their property is twice the minimum lot size in this so that So they can't, even though | 00:13:18 | |
it's attached to their garage that it's not attached to the house at all. The garage isn't attached to the house, right? OK, so | 00:13:25 | |
external Edu's can't be rented unless the lot is twice the minimum lot size in the zone. | 00:13:33 | |
So they would need a. | 00:13:41 | |
16,000 square foot lot to rent an external Edu Ohh. This don't change. Doesn't affect that fact, no. | 00:13:43 | |
So I think that I know that that corner property probably has the most questions on it. | 00:13:51 | |
In the end, the property owner said Ohh. You know, this doesn't really benefit me, but. | 00:13:57 | |
You know, maybe if things move in the future there's. I mean, he could create 2 units in the existing house if he created a | 00:14:01 | |
separation like between a basement and an upstairs, but. | 00:14:07 | |
Not a lot of interest in doing that. | 00:14:14 | |
As is so it creates an opportunity in the future by by rezoning it to R2. But as it stands, he's the lot. Size only qualifies it | 00:14:16 | |
for one. When you say it creates an opportunity in the future, tell me what you mean by that. | 00:14:23 | |
And that would be reliant on picking up additional property. So if he if he could reach an agreement with his neighbors to expand | 00:14:30 | |
the size of his lot, yeah. | 00:14:35 | |
Yes. | 00:14:39 | |
He would need 8000 square feet, a lot size to have an attached. | 00:14:40 | |
Two attached units. | 00:14:45 | |
And we have 10,010 thousand for two detached units. | 00:14:48 | |
8000 for two attached units and those would both be rentable rather than an Adu, right? Situation right? Thank you. | 00:14:52 | |
And I can go into the other two properties. Is there any questions on those or should we run through those as well? | 00:15:01 | |
OK. And the middle property is .41 acres and this one is? | 00:15:08 | |
Most applicable with the unclaimed density that's mentioned in the General Plan at .41 acres in an R110 zone. This property can't | 00:15:15 | |
be subdivided and. | 00:15:20 | |
You can't have any additional units placed on it because it is a single family zone. | 00:15:26 | |
So you have a large property that is limited to just a single family. Use. | 00:15:31 | |
Other than the internal AU. | 00:15:36 | |
Right. | 00:15:39 | |
There can be an Adu, just not a detached Adu, right? And that one, they could have a detached. Well, no, they can't have a | 00:15:40 | |
detached DU on that one either. That's rentable because they don't have twice the. | 00:15:46 | |
Lot size. | 00:15:52 | |
Or have a gram, yeah. | 00:15:54 | |
So they would they could do an internal Adu that would be rentable, but not an external. | 00:15:56 | |
And there's the with the R2 zone they could potentially add, I think I detailed. | 00:16:05 | |
3 detached units. | 00:16:12 | |
Or they could do 2. | 00:16:15 | |
Buildings with two units in each, so two structures with two units each. | 00:16:17 | |
Or three separate structures. | 00:16:23 | |
Um. | 00:16:26 | |
They already have an existing house on the property. I they don't. I'm not sure what their intention is with either keeping that | 00:16:27 | |
house or if they want to split it into an attached unit. | 00:16:32 | |
But they would like to add at least one detached unit at this point just for family. | 00:16:39 | |
But with an R2 zone, they could make that so it's rentable, or it would also be purchasable in the future. | 00:16:46 | |
That is another advantage with the R2 zone is that the creation of units can be split out into separate ownership. | 00:16:53 | |
So you'd have smaller units that would then in the future could be sold into separate ownership. | 00:17:01 | |
So, and especially with doing the the detached units, you're creating smaller. | 00:17:10 | |
Single family dwelling units that are detached and separate on the property. | 00:17:15 | |
Any questions on that one? | 00:17:21 | |
OK. | 00:17:25 | |
And the third property? It's on the corner of Wander Lane and the Side Street. | 00:17:25 | |
That one is .26 acres. | 00:17:31 | |
Right now they I same situation, they could build an external AU but. | 00:17:34 | |
Also would not be rentable. | 00:17:40 | |
With rezoning to R2, they could build a separate detached unit. | 00:17:44 | |
They weren't interested in doing an attached unit. They want to do a separate detached unit, same thing at the current time to use | 00:17:49 | |
that for family. | 00:17:54 | |
But in the future, there's that ownership potential where that could be divided out and have separate ownership. | 00:18:00 | |
Any questions on that one? | 00:18:08 | |
And. | 00:18:12 | |
Looking to at the historical area of our two zones, there's. | 00:18:14 | |
In the packet there was a map that showed existing duplexes. | 00:18:19 | |
And that's in our general plan showing the existing. | 00:18:25 | |
Where duplexes are located in the existing land uses. | 00:18:29 | |
You can see areas where there are duplexes. There's some on Russell on the east side. They're in a single family zone, but they | 00:18:32 | |
are a legal nonconforming duplex. So historically duplexes were created in the neighborhood. | 00:18:40 | |
The middle property owner had a duplex originally, probably back in the 60s or 50s when the house was built. | 00:18:49 | |
And then as Salt Lake County changed zoning and then when it was incorporated into holiday. | 00:18:55 | |
That duplex use I think was discontinued at some point and so they don't have a legal. | 00:19:02 | |
Nonconforming duplex. | 00:19:08 | |
But it was. | 00:19:10 | |
Potentially, probably a duplex. | 00:19:12 | |
In the past. | 00:19:14 | |
So there's a lot of history of duplexes being allowed in the in the area, there's a lot of duplexes. | 00:19:15 | |
In the surrounding neighborhood because they were permitted at one point from Salt Lake County. | 00:19:20 | |
So right now we have a lot of non or legal nonconforming duplexes. | 00:19:25 | |
That are. | 00:19:30 | |
On side streets or interspersed kind of in the neighborhood immediately to the South. | 00:19:31 | |
Immediately to the South across 23rd or what are you counting as? Immediately to the South? Across 45th? South? | 00:19:37 | |
Ohh okay across 40 the South. | 00:19:45 | |
Yeah, so. | 00:19:47 | |
On Russell Rd. there's some on the east side. Those are in a single family zone currently, but they are duplexes that were created | 00:19:49 | |
under Salt Lake County zoning. | 00:19:54 | |
And with. | 00:19:59 | |
That major arterial on 45th South, do you? | 00:20:00 | |
Do you consider that part of the same neighborhood? | 00:20:04 | |
Historically, so. | 00:20:08 | |
There's a map in the staff report that showed R2 zone on that north side of 45th South. | 00:20:10 | |
That was changed in the 60s to be an R1 zone. | 00:20:16 | |
So. | 00:20:20 | |
Similar neighborhoods. | 00:20:21 | |
I would consider them to be very similar. | 00:20:23 | |
Divided by a main arterial, but there was a lot of similar building patterns in those two neighborhoods. | 00:20:26 | |
But does that include duplexes or R twos or twin homes nonconforming on the north side of 45th on the north side? | 00:20:33 | |
On the existing, it looks like a lot of those uses weren't continued. | 00:20:42 | |
I think there were probably larger properties that got redeveloped into single family homes. Walking through that neighborhood, | 00:20:47 | |
I've seen mostly single family homes on large properties. | 00:20:51 | |
The middle. | 00:20:59 | |
The middle. | 00:21:03 | |
The middle home. | 00:21:05 | |
The existing structure was a duplex or as the structure changed. | 00:21:07 | |
The existing home was a duplex, so the property owner said that there's, you know, framing in there, that it was a duplex when he | 00:21:11 | |
purchased the property. The previous property owner said, you know, this was a duplex before. | 00:21:17 | |
It's just that it was converted to a single family at some point so lost any non conforming status that do we know what that was. | 00:21:24 | |
I don't the property owner may know, but I'm not sure when it was switched over. | 00:21:32 | |
Are there any other questions on this one too we can talk about the general plan or kind of the transit corridor. That's actually | 00:21:42 | |
what I was curious, could you give a little bit of background on the general plan and then this what the council did in 2020, Do | 00:21:47 | |
you know the history and the rationale was so close on 45th and 2030 E where they're where they went from? | 00:21:53 | |
R210 to R110. Do you happen to know the context of what why that was done? | 00:22:00 | |
Yes, so the. | 00:22:04 | |
There was two properties on Butternut Rd. that. | 00:22:08 | |
They were R110, I think. | 00:22:13 | |
The property owner wanted to. | 00:22:17 | |
Was the corner property they wanted to rezone to an R2. | 00:22:21 | |
Ohh, let's see, where was it the reverse back in 2014? OK, so. | 00:22:26 | |
When Ivory bought it in 2020 and they rezoned, so they bought 2 properties. | 00:22:30 | |
Rezoned so that they could get a smaller lot size. | 00:22:36 | |
And that enabled them to put three houses on 2 on what was originally two properties. | 00:22:39 | |
So they combined two properties. | 00:22:45 | |
Rezone to R18. | 00:22:48 | |
And then divided it into 3. | 00:22:50 | |
OK, because I was thinking that the staff report showed that the 2020 change was a. | 00:22:53 | |
Was a change. | 00:22:58 | |
From R210, excuse me, yeah, probably R18. | 00:23:00 | |
Or R110 to R18. | 00:23:04 | |
OK. So they had a 10,000 square foot lot minimum size with the combination of the two parcels they needed to go down to R18 to. | 00:23:08 | |
Get 3, three. OK. Thank you Kerry. I have, I just have one question if you. | 00:23:17 | |
If you could just in. | 00:23:22 | |
Pretty simple terms summarize. | 00:23:24 | |
Why the staff report is recommending something different than the Planning Commission? | 00:23:27 | |
Planning Commission came down with a negative recommendation, and anyway, so if you could just explain the rationale for a staff | 00:23:34 | |
recommendation, that's pretty unusual staff recommendation. | 00:23:39 | |
Recommending something different than the Planning Commission. | 00:23:45 | |
Staff recommendation was made based off of the main points of following the general plan where it identifies areas. | 00:23:49 | |
Close to that transit corridor of 45th South as an area to rezone to medium density residential or an R2 zone. | 00:23:56 | |
So that's one main point. The 2nd is moderate income housing goals. | 00:24:06 | |
Rezoning is a. | 00:24:11 | |
Best practice to Enable Affordable Housing That's in Kim Gardner Housing Affordability Reports, So. | 00:24:14 | |
If. | 00:24:21 | |
When we're looking at the general plan and looking at places where we can enable some affordable housing or you know, that's the | 00:24:22 | |
area that we're looking at. | 00:24:27 | |
Although it doesn't fall directly onto 45th South, rezoning typically involves some minor arterial roads as well. Off of Highland | 00:24:32 | |
Drive, you know you'll have a a road that comes down that. | 00:24:38 | |
Accesses are two properties, or. | 00:24:44 | |
RM properties. | 00:24:48 | |
So a lot of times those razones don't fall right on the on the main road, but they'll involve some minor roads. | 00:24:50 | |
Less usual to see. Kind of a single parcel or two. | 00:24:59 | |
Where the property owners were coming and asking for the rezone on this one. | 00:25:05 | |
You know they. | 00:25:10 | |
They would like to utilize the property themselves. It's not a developer that's coming into. | 00:25:11 | |
To combine them all and create a larger development. | 00:25:16 | |
So it's just property owners who would like to have. | 00:25:20 | |
Another unit or two? | 00:25:23 | |
Umm. | 00:25:24 | |
The. | 00:25:26 | |
But the main points were being the the General Plan and moderate income housing goals. | 00:25:27 | |
Planning commissions main finding was. | 00:25:33 | |
Concern for pedestrian safety and bike safety. There's a lot of pedestrian use on that narrow roadway. | 00:25:37 | |
There is a walkway that goes through the park. | 00:25:45 | |
So is pedestrian safety addressed through utilizing some of the other safety mechanisms that are in place? | 00:25:49 | |
The city engineers stated that their. | 00:25:57 | |
The increase in traffic from. | 00:26:00 | |
Vehicles accessing. | 00:26:02 | |
Three to five more units would be negligible. | 00:26:04 | |
So we. | 00:26:08 | |
Staff side not seeing the impact on safety or that it would be manageable. Planning Commission disagreed and thought that the. | 00:26:09 | |
That the safety of. | 00:26:16 | |
The surrounding neighborhood. | 00:26:19 | |
Using this narrow Rd. for pedestrian bicycle access would be hindered by. | 00:26:21 | |
The additional units. | 00:26:25 | |
Thank you. | 00:26:28 | |
Why? | 00:26:29 | |
I mean. | 00:26:30 | |
Isn't very wide and it's wider. | 00:26:32 | |
For example, if. | 00:26:36 | |
A garbage truck was picking up garbage cans along that street. | 00:26:37 | |
With another car being able to get around. | 00:26:40 | |
No, that road is. When I measured it on an aerial view on the county assessor site, it was 20 feet. | 00:26:43 | |
I think that the property owner measured it at about 18 feet, so it is really narrow on the park side. There is no parking that's | 00:26:50 | |
allowed. | 00:26:54 | |
The property owners property is described up to the edge of the asphalt. | 00:27:00 | |
So there are some parking areas that are on the north side, but they're. | 00:27:05 | |
Created by the property owners. | 00:27:10 | |
On private property. | 00:27:12 | |
So sometimes cars will park on private property size side thinking that it is. | 00:27:14 | |
A public Rd. but it's. | 00:27:19 | |
Owned by the private property owner. | 00:27:20 | |
One thing I think I'd like to. | 00:27:24 | |
To discuss with the council at some point is, as you recall, very recently the earth shifted beneath our feet from the legislature | 00:27:27 | |
with regard to internal AD use. | 00:27:32 | |
And we haven't really assessed how the general plan should be impacted as a result of that new. | 00:27:37 | |
Force of gravity in the community. | 00:27:45 | |
And so though I I I understand staff is is more constrained. | 00:27:48 | |
To make their assessments based on the existing general plan. | 00:27:54 | |
We haven't really. | 00:27:58 | |
Put back into the General Plan or weighed back into the General Plan. | 00:28:01 | |
The impact of that? | 00:28:05 | |
Gravitational shift. | 00:28:07 | |
And so that also explains kind of the difference between staff and Planning Commission, plus new affordable housing mandates. | 00:28:10 | |
Right. So, so, yeah, there's a couple of legislative mandates that we really haven't. | 00:28:18 | |
Folded into the general right, right. So that may be something we want to tackle or have the staff start to tackle is. | 00:28:23 | |
I mean, we don't want to do it in a way that doesn't mess us up with the mandates that we're getting. | 00:28:32 | |
And the credit we're going to need to receive for affordable housing with the legislature, but nonetheless we talk about. | 00:28:37 | |
Affordable housing and applications that are compared to the language in the Journal plan, well, the General Plan really hasn't. | 00:28:44 | |
Taken into consideration. | 00:28:53 | |
The more recent mandate we've had placed upon us, but that should be part of our calculus now. | 00:28:55 | |
With regard to. | 00:29:02 | |
You know justifications for rezone. | 00:29:04 | |
And part of that process could also be as we're getting more experience with ADUS generally because it hasn't been. | 00:29:06 | |
You know, 80s haven't been a major thing until more recently. | 00:29:13 | |
And you know, we've taken our first swipe at how do we define Adus, particularly internal Adus. | 00:29:18 | |
Versus externally to use. | 00:29:24 | |
We've had some rather. | 00:29:27 | |
At one time? Just arbitrary. | 00:29:31 | |
Factors for when you can have an external Adu. First there was it could only be half an acre or above. | 00:29:36 | |
And then we we we moderated to be either half an acre or twice the size of the lot size within the. | 00:29:41 | |
The parameter for like an R110, if you have 20 you can you can do an external Adu so you don't have to subdivide. | 00:29:51 | |
But we could also look at other. | 00:29:58 | |
Other possibilities for? | 00:30:00 | |
You know, if you have a detached garage and you're not expanding your footprint. | 00:30:02 | |
You know can you have an Adu within that sort of footprint and not have it considered an externally. So I don't I think those are | 00:30:07 | |
things we can look at. | 00:30:11 | |
That we can also get credit. | 00:30:16 | |
For affordable housing. | 00:30:19 | |
But at the same time not take a sledgehammer to something that could maybe use a screwdriver. | 00:30:21 | |
When we're talking about getting affordable housing and because because you know, razones are a heavy lift. | 00:30:27 | |
And perhaps we can help our citizens kind of get what they want using a little teeny screwdriver instead of a sledgehammer. | 00:30:32 | |
But that's my two cents. I think the the primary point being we probably need to review our general plan language for. | 00:30:41 | |
You know the general plan terms and then what the appropriate zones? | 00:30:51 | |
Would be for the not changing the objectives, but recognizing now in the suggested zones that we now have R ones that are all now | 00:30:55 | |
essentially R twos now. | 00:31:00 | |
And. | 00:31:07 | |
So that's my $0.02. | 00:31:08 | |
I have a quick note to you on another main difference with R2 versus an external audio. | 00:31:11 | |
External Adu, since they aren't accessory building can be built a lot closer to the property line. So sometimes just depending on | 00:31:18 | |
lot size, those could be 5 to 10 feet away from the property line. R2 then has you know 20 foot setbacks, so. | 00:31:26 | |
Are to having those regulations moves those buildings. | 00:31:35 | |
Or. | 00:31:38 | |
Created units inside the lot more so that they're not put on the outskirts of the lot, so maybe less impact on neighbors by | 00:31:39 | |
requiring those units to be pulled in. | 00:31:45 | |
Yeah, I'm going to jump in here because. | 00:31:52 | |
When I saw this application in the packet, I sensed that there might be a lot of. | 00:31:55 | |
Conversation and debate because. | 00:32:00 | |
Regardless of what you might see on next door or whatever you read. | 00:32:03 | |
This council gets pretty serious when people ask for more density in a rezone. We have pretty thoughtful debates about it, and you | 00:32:08 | |
can see that we're not done. | 00:32:12 | |
And I think we're going to have a lot more in the work session and I was hoping maybe. | 00:32:17 | |
We would work our way into. | 00:32:21 | |
Some clarity, mostly out of respect for all of you that are here to hear this so you didn't have to stay for the work session if | 00:32:25 | |
you want to, but I'm afraid. | 00:32:29 | |
That might be the case. | 00:32:34 | |
My sense is on this when I mean what I'm hearing is. | 00:32:36 | |
Staff is really looking at this. | 00:32:41 | |
As a data-driven recommendation to this Council saying. | 00:32:44 | |
Here's the application. Here's what the general plan says. Here's what the traffic data says. | 00:32:49 | |
We don't have any reasonable reason not to recommend. I don't want to put words in your mouth carrying John any reasonable. | 00:32:55 | |
Justification for not recommending this rezone based on what we have put in our own general plan and what the traffic engineers | 00:33:04 | |
are telling us. | 00:33:08 | |
And I think. | 00:33:13 | |
You know, from my personal standpoint. | 00:33:14 | |
I look at this as the entries into this rezone application do not penetrate the neighborhood. In my mind. They come in and then | 00:33:17 | |
they go right onto 4500 S to enter the two lots to the east and and and actually to lot to the West because they have to come on | 00:33:22 | |
to. | 00:33:27 | |
Make a right on to 45 to go into the garage, right so all three of those enter off of that short stretch off of butternut part so | 00:33:33 | |
they don't penetrate the neighborhood. | 00:33:39 | |
That. | 00:33:45 | |
A question I have and then the other one is be on. | 00:33:46 | |
And I'm not asking to answer this. I'm just saying this is what I'm going to wrestle with and I think this council will wrestle | 00:33:50 | |
with is. | 00:33:52 | |
There are 4. | 00:33:56 | |
Items that that the staff puts in front of us in terms of justifying this or what we should think about. | 00:33:58 | |
The General Plan, which I think it clearly meets the objectives of the General Plan. | 00:34:05 | |
And see does it adversely affect the budding properties? Somebody have to explain how it would to me. | 00:34:09 | |
Does it have adequate facilities? It doesn't. | 00:34:17 | |
In my mind, there's no justification to say it's going to. | 00:34:20 | |
To tax our public infrastructure, to service the properties. | 00:34:23 | |
So it comes down to B, which is I think, what the. | 00:34:27 | |
What the Planning Commission was really doing is blending in. | 00:34:31 | |
Public input into that data. | 00:34:36 | |
And B says whether the proposed amendment is harmonious with the overall character of existing development in the vicinity of the | 00:34:39 | |
subject property, which is I'm which I'm sure is what I'm going to hear during the public hearing, and that's what I need to be | 00:34:44 | |
convinced of. So. | 00:34:49 | |
That's a long winded way of saying. | 00:34:55 | |
You're gonna hear for those that want to stay. | 00:34:57 | |
Will be discussing this again in the work session. | 00:35:01 | |
So. | 00:35:04 | |
Thanks, Kerry. Yeah, any other questions or? | 00:35:06 | |
Yes, there will be. | 00:35:08 | |
OK. If it's if it's OK with the council, we've got another presentation and a couple of. | 00:35:12 | |
Items, we got to vote before we get to the work session and then I'll just tell you right now we've got a pretty long presentation | 00:35:19 | |
from Unified Police in the work session. | 00:35:23 | |
And I've assume we'll get to more discussion on this. | 00:35:28 | |
In the work session, my best estimate is probably. | 00:35:32 | |
8:00-ish, I'm sorry, but that's the best we can do. We're trying to be as respectful as possible. That was a long conversation | 00:35:36 | |
that we usually don't have during a regular session. Mayor just and it is if for those that wanted to to, it is broadcast live | 00:35:43 | |
also so they could return home and watch it and or listen in remotely. Is that correct? That's right, yeah. | 00:35:50 | |
OK, so with that. | 00:35:58 | |
I'm going to open up the public hearing on this rezone application. Is the are the applicants here? | 00:36:02 | |
Why don't we hear from the applicant first And then I'm going to read into the public record some comments we've got from people | 00:36:11 | |
online and then we'll start asking those that want to address the council to come up. So again, name and address please. | 00:36:17 | |
My name is Dan Kemp. I'm the property owner at 4437 Butternut. | 00:36:23 | |
And I know the other property owner on the middle lot is here as well. | 00:36:28 | |
So just to give you a little bit of background because we're all confused and I was too because I purchased the property with some | 00:36:32 | |
misunderstanding. So the property is an 8000 square foot lot or was wouldn't it I guess was built with ivory. They stole a short | 00:36:40 | |
small little piece and so it became 7000. | 00:36:48 | |
900 or something like that. | 00:36:57 | |
So that they could do the sidewalk. So it's not even really quite 8000, but. | 00:36:59 | |
I'm a retired military and I'd like to do things by the book and with the rules. And so I I before I purchased the home, I | 00:37:06 | |
contacted the city to ask if I could rent out the the DU under the garage because I was interested in doing that. If I purchased | 00:37:11 | |
it, I was told I could. | 00:37:17 | |
Because it was on 45 zero S but in reality when I purchased it and then went in to put in my request for a business application, | 00:37:23 | |
it was told to me that I couldn't because it's not the 66 foot wide 45th South and so it was impossible. | 00:37:31 | |
So being the. | 00:37:40 | |
Citizen I am, I wanted to figure out how it could be done properly. | 00:37:43 | |
And with in accordance with the city laws. So I investigated the property and thought maybe the our two situation might be the | 00:37:46 | |
answer. | 00:37:51 | |
And I thought that it was so we. | 00:37:56 | |
With myself with the other two. | 00:38:00 | |
Properties to the east decided to go ahead and put in a request for the R2 zone change. | 00:38:02 | |
We had a meeting. We determined that since my lot was. | 00:38:07 | |
100 feet shy or so of 8000 square feet that it used to have that I would not be able to do it with an R2, but that I could maybe | 00:38:14 | |
buy 100 feet, 150 feet of property from my neighbor and. | 00:38:21 | |
Achieve it that way, but unfortunately. | 00:38:28 | |
That actually was not the case either, because my unit is not attached, it's detached. So after I. | 00:38:31 | |
Put forth the request and. | 00:38:38 | |
Paid a bunch of money to actually put in for their request. I found out subsequent later that it was actually not possible still. | 00:38:40 | |
So as is, the only way I can use the Adu is to. | 00:38:47 | |
Have someone from my family live there, like see my brother or something like that, which is interesting and interesting is | 00:38:51 | |
interesting because I mean if I rented it to a student. | 00:38:56 | |
There's really no change in how many people are living there, what cars are there or anything, but it just means that I can't rent | 00:39:01 | |
it. I can't utilize my property like I'd like to. | 00:39:05 | |
Which is unfortunate, so. | 00:39:09 | |
That's the history behind it. I know that my neighbors to the east would still like the flexibility of an R2 situation. I | 00:39:12 | |
unfortunately would not be able to buy 2000 square feet off of our neighbors a lot because at that point they're a lot would be | 00:39:18 | |
too small to do what they want to do. So unfortunately, I'm personally in a situation where I can't utilize my property like I'd | 00:39:24 | |
like to, which is a little disappointing. We're very disappointing. But you know, you talked about some of the ways to maybe | 00:39:30 | |
address that. | 00:39:36 | |
Maybe using a screwdriver versus a hammer? | 00:39:42 | |
And there is, you know, like you mentioned. | 00:39:45 | |
The fact that there's all the affordable housing movements and the desire to have AU's available. | 00:39:49 | |
I think you've seen. | 00:39:55 | |
Most of you are familiar with my property. | 00:39:56 | |
And I think it could be well said that. | 00:39:58 | |
It's a very. | 00:40:01 | |
Nice situation. It doesn't seem like the lots too small. the AU could provide some affordable housing, but it's all based on the | 00:40:03 | |
laws and the city code. | 00:40:08 | |
So no matter what happens today with the R2 situation, whether it's approved or not, because I know that the other applicants on | 00:40:14 | |
the application still likes to approve. | 00:40:20 | |
I would like to ask you to ask the city to look at. | 00:40:26 | |
Changing the text. | 00:40:31 | |
On our general plan for what is and when an Edu can be used. | 00:40:32 | |
Because I was also talking with the city. | 00:40:38 | |
And I could. | 00:40:40 | |
Pay a lot of money again and ask for a text change on that and try to fight it. | 00:40:42 | |
And see if that could be changed. But they said that if you direct them to do that, they could actually just go ahead look at it, | 00:40:47 | |
see what would be smart and do it. My recommendation would be to remove the double the lot size because my lot is 8000. Even if it | 00:40:54 | |
was a 1.1 or 1.2 times the lot size, I still wouldn't be able to use my AU. So that's what I would propose, that maybe you asked | 00:41:01 | |
the city to task them to look at changing that burbage. | 00:41:08 | |
Maybe even just I I would say take out the lot size altogether and let one of the plans come before the city. At that point | 00:41:15 | |
evaluator evaluate whether it makes sense, if it's a good AU plan. | 00:41:21 | |
If it has good parking and go from there. So that's just one recommendation I'd like to make. | 00:41:28 | |
And then moving forward with our request tonight. | 00:41:35 | |
If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. I know that I've been definitely learning a lot about city code and learning | 00:41:39 | |
a lot about how city planning and City Council and meetings work, so. | 00:41:45 | |
I'm welcome. I'm open to any questions. | 00:41:52 | |
Any questions for the applicant? | 00:41:55 | |
OK. Thank you. Thanks. | 00:41:58 | |
And before I forget, just to be clear. | 00:42:00 | |
So you know, we we typically don't. | 00:42:03 | |
Vote on these matters at the same meeting. We take time to deliberate so but I do, I do totally anticipate this will be voted on | 00:42:07 | |
on October 19th at our next council meeting. It will be agenda for a vote but you won't see a vote tonight if anybody's waiting | 00:42:13 | |
for that. OK, thank you. Yeah no I was aware of that. I just wanted to also ask you to in in your deliberation and maybe make a | 00:42:20 | |
motion to investigate the verbiage for possible tax change for the AU so they could be utilized because. | 00:42:27 | |
From what I'm aware of now. | 00:42:34 | |
Because of the verbiage in the city code right now is so restrictive. It's really almost like saying we would like a use but no | 00:42:36 | |
one can do them because it's pretty impossible to double the lot size and really make it work. | 00:42:42 | |
Do do you? | 00:42:49 | |
Do you happen to know, are you referring to an external Edu when you talk about the Yes. OK, yeah, they want double the lot size. | 00:42:51 | |
So for example, to utilize my Edu properly under the city code, it would take a lot size of 16,000 square feet. | 00:42:57 | |
Which when you look at it with and you see my property and you see what it's there, it doesn't really make sense anyway, so. | 00:43:05 | |
So I was just hoping that that would be another recommendation that you would put forward. Yeah, that would really require a | 00:43:13 | |
motion, but I get what you're saying if you. | 00:43:17 | |
Request a text change. There's a fee associated with it. Where it comes from a council, then it's just direction to the council. | 00:43:23 | |
Look into it. | 00:43:27 | |
OK. Thank you. | 00:43:32 | |
Did the other applicant want to come on up please? | 00:43:34 | |
And again, just name and address please, in 3 minutes. My name is important. What's your tone? | 00:43:41 | |
43 Right up to the mic, Sir. 4387 Ashford Drive about over my ways of the property. I'm in the middle property. | 00:43:47 | |
And the reason we bought this two years ago is just for our children. | 00:43:56 | |
And we have three children and 1/2 right now living on the property. | 00:44:01 | |
Go to your view. | 00:44:06 | |
And then the other work at Lehigh, which is. | 00:44:08 | |
Against. | 00:44:12 | |
Well. | 00:44:14 | |
Rush hour coming to the Salt Lake, so he's happy about the board, happy easy to access the university and the work. | 00:44:16 | |
In. | 00:44:23 | |
That's all we want. We want to have additional. | 00:44:24 | |
A house. | 00:44:28 | |
Just for our children. | 00:44:29 | |
That that's all beginning of we want to have. We never want to learn to other people other than. | 00:44:31 | |
Because. | 00:44:37 | |
My my wife won. | 00:44:38 | |
Kid to stay close to us and then as you know, the housing is not. | 00:44:41 | |
Cheap anymore for them? | 00:44:46 | |
And we. | 00:44:48 | |
We feel our response we to support them and we can if we can do. | 00:44:49 | |
So that's all we. | 00:44:54 | |
Want to have? | 00:44:55 | |
And then in terms of traffic? | 00:44:56 | |
Understand this street Without these streets, more St. these three probably wouldn't can never get out. | 00:44:59 | |
So the priority of this small street is. | 00:45:06 | |
I understand that is is for for us so that we can get our go along to fortify and itself. | 00:45:09 | |
And understand the pedestrians start walking, people walking. I'm happy to see that, because yes. | 00:45:16 | |
It's a good exercise people do all the time evening all that, but. | 00:45:22 | |
We can do better on this street to provide the safety. | 00:45:28 | |
For pedestrian. | 00:45:31 | |
That never intended before. | 00:45:32 | |
Because this street in 10 basic to me, to my knowledge, from what I see for this probably be able to get out. | 00:45:34 | |
Because this part next to it. | 00:45:42 | |
Without this tree. | 00:45:44 | |
These three probably won't be able to get out and move on. | 00:45:46 | |
So that's. | 00:45:50 | |
Umm. | 00:45:52 | |
We either have this is 20 feet wide St. | 00:45:53 | |
That we either can have on the South side to have a sidewalk for kid. | 00:45:59 | |
For anyone walking from school because. | 00:46:04 | |
You still have enough. I don't know what's the width of the street legally. | 00:46:06 | |
So 12 feet. So you do have 8 feet, 4 feet of sidewalk you can do and. | 00:46:11 | |
Like you said, this street small. | 00:46:18 | |
And. | 00:46:20 | |
I don't know what is intent for two way two way car to go. | 00:46:23 | |
Around about, but you know. | 00:46:28 | |
To me is. | 00:46:30 | |
Same narrow and you can see the. | 00:46:32 | |
The loan on the. | 00:46:35 | |
Pot. | 00:46:38 | |
Getting deteriorated and then the sprinkler head got hit and you can see our damage there because the two car passed by Barry and | 00:46:39 | |
him. | 00:46:43 | |
Any space towards so the future you can either. | 00:46:47 | |
Make it 1 way. Discourage people that around neighborhood to come here. Take a shortcut to avoid fortifying the cell. | 00:46:51 | |
So. | 00:46:59 | |
All we want just one additional home for our kid. | 00:47:02 | |
And. | 00:47:06 | |
That's all we want. | 00:47:06 | |
Thank you. Thank you. | 00:47:09 | |
OK, with that I am going to open up the public hearing. | 00:47:13 | |
Before I invite people to the podium. | 00:47:17 | |
I want to read into the record. | 00:47:20 | |
Comments we've received via e-mail. | 00:47:23 | |
And I'll just remind, you know, certainly everybody is welcome to address the council, but you know, if if it's all going to be | 00:47:26 | |
the same comment, if somebody wants to speak on behalf of a group, that would be appreciated too. | 00:47:32 | |
All of the following have submitted comment via e-mail to the City Council. We've all received them. | 00:47:39 | |
Chris. | 00:47:46 | |
I apologize if I mispronounced Chris Brusso. | 00:47:47 | |
2392 E 45 Zero S Sarah and Tom Collins. 2461 Melanie Drive. Mark Crockett, no address. Alicia Durr 2413 E Butternut Circle, Lynn | 00:47:52 | |
Woodruff and Amanda Hales. Brittany Minuchin, all that I don't have an address on, but I assume we're in the vicinity. | 00:48:03 | |
Joan Momer Momer, 4634 Butternut Road, and Chris Tumor, 4405 S Briarwood Circle. All of these were submitted to the Council in | 00:48:13 | |
opposition to this application. | 00:48:20 | |
Ones that there were some that were in favor, but those were part, I believe, of the Planning Commission summary. | 00:48:29 | |
And not submitted for this public hearing. | 00:48:35 | |
So I have all of those on record as being in opposition to this application and are on the record for this particular meeting. The | 00:48:38 | |
public hearing is open and as a reminder, please state your name and address and try to keep it to 3 minutes or less unless you | 00:48:44 | |
are speaking on behalf of a larger group, in which case take 5 minutes. | 00:48:51 | |
Come on up. | 00:48:58 | |
Hi, my name is Alicia Durr. I'm at 2413 E Butternut Circle. | 00:49:04 | |
Umm. | 00:49:09 | |
In the General Plan, there are four goals that I know you're all aware of. | 00:49:11 | |
I don't believe this rezone fits any of those goals. The first one to maintain the established pattern of development of the city, | 00:49:16 | |
which is 45th South. This is not 45th. | 00:49:21 | |
I understand increasing density on 23rd, 45th. | 00:49:26 | |
But as we've stated, it's on a small St. | 00:49:30 | |
This is a street that connects. | 00:49:33 | |
Our lower neighborhood to the upper neighborhood. So this is a very important lane that we use to drive to access wander safely | 00:49:35 | |
without having to pull out on the 45th, make a left. | 00:49:42 | |
And then another left. | 00:49:48 | |
Where that that crossing of Wander on 45th is already a pretty unsafe place. | 00:49:50 | |
So I appreciate having this lane to be able to access Wonder lane safely. | 00:49:57 | |
But it is problematic and I. | 00:50:01 | |
Even though I know that they stated that the street engineer or the traffic engineer. | 00:50:04 | |
Said it wouldn't have an impact. | 00:50:09 | |
For already a problematic St. | 00:50:11 | |
It would impact and and I know that the owners, current owners. | 00:50:14 | |
Have a vision. | 00:50:19 | |
If it is changed to an art tone that R2 that does open it up if they were to sell it to be able to put. | 00:50:22 | |
You know, right now there's. | 00:50:29 | |
123 units. | 00:50:31 | |
Promote understand from the Planning Commission meeting 4 units on the middle and two on the end. | 00:50:33 | |
The other question that I had is if. | 00:50:39 | |
If it is legal. | 00:50:42 | |
As I understand, for Dan to be able to have his family live there in that accessory dwelling. | 00:50:43 | |
And that's the use that the current owners have stated for building something for their family. | 00:50:49 | |
I'm wondering why the need for changing the R2 zoning if that's all that they want to do is to be able to house their own family | 00:50:56 | |
on those lots already. | 00:51:01 | |
So my concern is. | 00:51:05 | |
Changing the R2 does open it up to other development in which you could subdivide it even more. | 00:51:07 | |
Um. | 00:51:14 | |
The third thing in the General Plan does say that retaining the natural character of the city and its neighborhoods. | 00:51:15 | |
There are no R2 properties nor north of 45th South. | 00:51:22 | |
And I would say it feels like a very different neighborhood. I think that was a good point on the north side of 45th versus the | 00:51:27 | |
South side of 45th. | 00:51:31 | |
Even the new development happening on 23rd of the corner of 23rd and 45th is an R18 zone. | 00:51:36 | |
And my question is if ivory already came in and we already fulfilled? | 00:51:43 | |
The mandate of the general plan to be able to increase density. | 00:51:48 | |
There were those three lots that were changed to an R18 zone just three years ago. | 00:51:52 | |
So why are we revisiting this so soon afterward? To be able to accommodate. | 00:51:57 | |
A proper a development that with an AU that or you know with the apartment underneath. | 00:52:02 | |
That shouldn't have been built been built that way in the 1st place since it was not built to code, but we already did accommodate | 00:52:08 | |
them to increase density and go from an R110 zone to an R18 zone in order to build those 3 new properties along Butternut Rd. | 00:52:15 | |
Um, the other thing that the city planner. | 00:52:23 | |
Said with the the middle property. The Squire family lived in that middle property for the past 50 years. | 00:52:27 | |
And it wasn't a duplex. | 00:52:33 | |
The Square family lived there and had, you know, their garden on the scene, so there isn't a history of duplexes in this | 00:52:37 | |
neighborhood. | 00:52:40 | |
Um. | 00:52:44 | |
Let me just. | 00:52:46 | |
If there was anything else. | 00:52:48 | |
The last concern that I do have is with the parking. | 00:52:54 | |
Because that is such a narrow St. and you put that many units on. | 00:52:58 | |
On the corner property with the apartment underneath, there is no additional parking for someone to park. | 00:53:02 | |
He's he said before that he wants someone to park on the right side, but there's no way to park on the right side of that driveway | 00:53:08 | |
without blocking. | 00:53:11 | |
The garage. | 00:53:15 | |
So you're unable to get two cars into that garage if you have someone designated parking over there. | 00:53:16 | |
And and as you increase that and you have most people have two cars per unit. | 00:53:21 | |
Having that much, I I'm very concerned about how do you fit two cars with that many units where there is no street parking there? | 00:53:27 | |
I understand increased density on a wide Rd. of 65 feet, right? But we went out and measured. | 00:53:35 | |
We measured 16 to 17 feet when we went out with our. | 00:53:42 | |
To measure what that tree is. So it is small. | 00:53:47 | |
There would be no additional parking unless they. | 00:53:50 | |
They were to spill over onto Wander Lane. | 00:53:53 | |
Or over onto Betternet where it's a a kid heavy neighborhood and. | 00:53:56 | |
And I'm. | 00:54:02 | |
You know, I wanted to keep it really safe and keep the character of our neighborhood, so thank you for your time. | 00:54:03 | |
Thank you. | 00:54:08 | |
Anybody else? | 00:54:17 | |
Ben Butler. | 00:54:26 | |
I live at 2419 E Butternut Circle. | 00:54:27 | |
And I'd like to say I'm opposed to this. | 00:54:31 | |
I think that. | 00:54:34 | |
In addition to there being a parking problem, and then it's against the character of the neighborhood. | 00:54:36 | |
I think. | 00:54:42 | |
Changing this to R2 creates a very complex pattern of ownership. | 00:54:43 | |
We're going from three current owners to potentially 6-7 current owners if it were R2 and fully. | 00:54:48 | |
Developed. | 00:54:56 | |
I think what these properties owners are asking for is a very clear example of. | 00:54:58 | |
Why your Adu rules? | 00:55:04 | |
In this town are. | 00:55:07 | |
They make no sense. | 00:55:09 | |
I don't understand why you would choose to have an Adu. | 00:55:11 | |
That required. | 00:55:15 | |
Wide a double lot would be a requirement for an Adu that doesn't. | 00:55:17 | |
Why wouldn't you just subdivide the lot? | 00:55:21 | |
It doesn't make sense. It doesn't. | 00:55:24 | |
Helped to achieve the goal of. | 00:55:26 | |
Providing low cost housing. | 00:55:29 | |
And. | 00:55:31 | |
You know, owners supervised. | 00:55:33 | |
Rentals. | 00:55:35 | |
Does anybody know the history on that? | 00:55:38 | |
No, just just so you know, we don't typically. | 00:55:41 | |
Get in back and forth during public comment. | 00:55:44 | |
This is just your opportunity to address your council, and if you've got an opinion on that, we're happy to take it. But we're | 00:55:47 | |
not. We don't get into. | 00:55:51 | |
Back and forth debates, OK, during during public hearing. That I think, is a very important question. | 00:55:54 | |
That's. | 00:56:01 | |
This makes very apparent. | 00:56:02 | |
Thank you. | 00:56:04 | |
Thank you. | 00:56:05 | |
Yeah, it's going to stay open. So if you, you know, just come on up when you're ready, if you want to address the council and when | 00:56:07 | |
we don't have anybody else, we'll close the public hearing. | 00:56:11 | |
OK. | 00:56:22 | |
So given there's no more public comment on this particular rezone, we're going to close the public hearing. | 00:56:25 | |
And. | 00:56:32 | |
Yes, Sir. | 00:56:34 | |
A little bit. | 00:56:38 | |
No, we don't really get into a back and forth rebuttal. I the. | 00:56:39 | |
I'll just say that the Council's pretty familiar with this issue. | 00:56:44 | |
And if we have other issues, or if we have other questions between now and the work session and the time we actually vote this, I | 00:56:49 | |
can guarantee you they'll clarify their position before they take a vote. | 00:56:55 | |
So I'll just remind everybody that we will be addressing this again and you can hear it. You can stay here if you would like. | 00:57:02 | |
But also as council member Brewer said, if you want to log on, where would they go for that? Stephanie, just under the city | 00:57:10 | |
website? | 00:57:13 | |
That's an agenda. | 00:57:19 | |
If you want to. | 00:57:21 | |
Listen to it at home. If you don't want to stay, that's fine too, but this will all be an open discussion that we'll have. | 00:57:22 | |
Amongst the Council and then it will be on the agenda on the 19th for a vote and. | 00:57:28 | |
I thank everybody for coming. So public hearing is closed. | 00:57:37 | |
All right. | 00:57:40 | |
So we are moving on now to item number six, which is the I 215 shared use path and we have representatives from. | 00:57:41 | |
Orox engineers here to review this with the council and it's in your packet. | 00:57:48 | |
Thank you. Good evening Mayor and Council members. Thank you for having us back. We always love coming to present to the city | 00:57:53 | |
here. I will try and go quickly. You have a lengthy agenda and work session ahead of you it sounds like. | 00:57:59 | |
I am going to give you an overview of the I 215 Shared Use Path feasibility study. It rolls off the tongue. | 00:58:06 | |
This was a very high level study that the city moved forward with utilizing a grant from the Wasatch Front Regional Council to | 00:58:13 | |
look at a very high level what some of the opportunities were for creating a grade separated walking and biking pathway adjacent | 00:58:20 | |
to 2:15 and some of you dots right of way that is not currently being utilized. | 00:58:27 | |
Stephanie gave me all the power here. | 00:58:35 | |
What should I be pointing it at? | 00:58:40 | |
We can see that one. | 00:58:43 | |
Ohh, there we go. OK. | 00:58:48 | |
All right. So this was a very quick study. As I mentioned, we launched it this summer. | 00:58:50 | |
And we did kind of a quick burn of collecting some existing data, looking at adopted plans, community goals. We met with | 00:58:55 | |
stakeholders three times over the summer and into the fall to talk about kind of the vision for active transportation in this | 00:59:01 | |
area. What we were trying to connect into that included adjacent cities, it included UDOT, it included various members of the | 00:59:06 | |
public. | 00:59:11 | |
And the Wasatch Front Regional Council, we did a public survey as well and so we have some results to share with you for that too. | 00:59:17 | |
Maybe. | 00:59:34 | |
Sorry. | 00:59:45 | |
You're gonna have to help me. | 00:59:46 | |
No problem. | 00:59:48 | |
There we go. So this is the study area we looked at this orange line. Here is the alignment that's between 2:15 and the noise | 00:59:50 | |
walls and. | 00:59:54 | |
The private property owners. This is the part of 215 that it extends from Canuteson Park. | 00:59:59 | |
To Highland Drive. | 01:00:05 | |
Next slide please. | 01:00:09 | |
So this. | 01:00:11 | |
Pathway alignment was born out of the Mid Valley Active Transportation Plan. Holiday was a participant in that included many | 01:00:13 | |
cities and the goal of that was to build a regional active transportation network that transcended city boundaries and connected | 01:00:19 | |
people to. | 01:00:24 | |
Commercial recreation, other things like that, so. | 01:00:30 | |
The Mid Valley Active Transportation Plan came up with this as a recommendation largely from public feedback. | 01:00:34 | |
And then the Wasatch Front Regional Council worked closely with UDOT and the city to get this incorporated in the latest version | 01:00:41 | |
of their Regional Transportation Plan, which is kind of the long range vision for transportation improvements along the Wasatch | 01:00:46 | |
Front. | 01:00:52 | |
And it is a phased approach between now and 2050 and projects are prioritized into 3 phases. This project was prioritized into | 01:00:58 | |
phase one, so the the most important and most recent phase. | 01:01:04 | |
That's certainly not a mandate, but it was highlighting the fact that this was a priority to the community and probably fairly | 01:01:10 | |
feasible to implement in a timely manner. | 01:01:14 | |
And there's there is a cost assumption that went with that. The cost assumptions in the regional transportation plan are pretty | 01:01:20 | |
high level. | 01:01:23 | |
They are based on kind of planning level design and kind of assumptions about what materials cost today and into the future. | 01:01:27 | |
Next slide please. | 01:01:36 | |
Thank you. So one of our goals was to look at how do we connect people to local and regional destinations. | 01:01:53 | |
Again, we know that Wheeler Farm is a huge destination. The trail access and the canyons. There are also daily destinations that | 01:02:01 | |
can be accessed off of 2300 E Highland Drive up by Knutson of course. | 01:02:07 | |
And then into the what we know as the existing and future active transportation network, what's planned in the future, how do we | 01:02:14 | |
connect into that for folks? | 01:02:18 | |
Next slide please. | 01:02:22 | |
Some of our goals also were about. | 01:02:25 | |
Providing safe and direct connections for people of all ages and all abilities. | 01:02:28 | |
Separated paved pathways do that really well. They're really comfortable, they're really safe. You're avoiding conflicts with | 01:02:33 | |
other vehicles. | 01:02:36 | |
It, you know, promotes that alternative mode. If there is a nice safe, direct connection for walking and biking, people are more | 01:02:40 | |
likely to take that than drive. | 01:02:45 | |
And of course, it's something that we've heard from this community as important. | 01:02:49 | |
And we heard that a lot in our stakeholder. | 01:02:53 | |
Meetings. We actually had one meeting out at the park and kind of walked around and looked at what those alignments might look | 01:02:56 | |
like. | 01:02:59 | |
As well as our online survey, we heard that. | 01:03:02 | |
Next slide please. | 01:03:05 | |
So going into this, we knew just generally some of the potential concerns from the community were going to be about privacy to the | 01:03:09 | |
adjacent properties and parcels along 215. | 01:03:14 | |
And so we wanted to make sure that whatever we were looking at and kind of designing in terms of alignment was really cognizant of | 01:03:20 | |
people's private property and privacy and safety behind their home. So that's something that we looked at. This is just a map | 01:03:26 | |
showing all the private properties, which are the parcels in blue and then kind of that Gray area is what we were looking at for | 01:03:31 | |
alignments. | 01:03:36 | |
And then, of course, the connection into the park. | 01:03:42 | |
Next slide please. | 01:03:44 | |
These are some examples of both locally and kind of in our neighborhood, Colorado of other. You go back to the previous slide, I | 01:03:47 | |
just want to make sure I understand the Gray. | 01:03:53 | |
The Gray shading area. So you're saying the path would be on the on on the South side of the Gray. | 01:03:59 | |
Yes. But yeah, basically the trail alignment, yeah, kind of is the line between the dark Gray and the, the light Gray, roughly. | 01:04:07 | |
OK, good. Hey, thanks. Umm. | 01:04:12 | |
So here's some other examples that we wanted to look at for, you know, when we start to put pen to paper here, how might we design | 01:04:18 | |
this so that it is private? It does protect property owners, access is not easy and nobody gets any bad ideas. And it's still | 01:04:22 | |
beautiful. | 01:04:27 | |
Next slide. | 01:04:32 | |
Here's another example of that, again, adding privacy walls, adding we heard a lot about landscaping and beautification as kind of | 01:04:35 | |
a long term goal and long term vision for this area. | 01:04:40 | |
So here is another example of other communities that are doing that next slide. | 01:04:45 | |
Here is our first stakeholder meeting. We really focused on visioning and goals for this corridor. Again, this included Cottonwood | 01:04:50 | |
Heights and UDOT and other kind of special interest groups that have ownership or interest in this area and this network. | 01:04:56 | |
We did a great mapping exercise where we looked at potential alignments. We documented everybody's comments about you know some of | 01:05:03 | |
those concerns about property and and intersection, connectivity and safety and things like that. So this was kind of the | 01:05:09 | |
information gathering phase. | 01:05:14 | |
Here are some more documentation of that. And then we kind of crafted a vision statement as a group. | 01:05:22 | |
Including UDOT and we were looking at developing A backbone facility that provides safe East West access for people walking and | 01:05:27 | |
biking. | 01:05:31 | |
And that connects to the existing and future active transportation network. | 01:05:36 | |
We also launched a public survey. We did the Canuteson Park event. We pushed information out on social media about this to direct | 01:05:41 | |
people to the survey and give them some background information. And then we had some Flyers up at some of these locations and | 01:05:46 | |
partners. Next slide. | 01:05:52 | |
We had 187 responses on our survey and received 100 e-mail contacts. | 01:05:59 | |
For folks, this was the flyer that we distributed. It was open for just about a month and 1/2. | 01:06:06 | |
Next slide. | 01:06:12 | |
We had some open-ended questions and then we had some multiple choice and select all questions. | 01:06:14 | |
People want to use this connection to recreate. They want to use it to access businesses on Highland Dr. They want it to kind of | 01:06:18 | |
create a bigger and more complete bicycle network that avoids busy roadways. | 01:06:24 | |
Next slide. | 01:06:31 | |
Most people that took the survey live around the park and that portion of 215. | 01:06:33 | |
Next slide. | 01:06:39 | |
And most people want to access businesses, access the park and use it for recreation. | 01:06:41 | |
Excited. | 01:06:47 | |
That we ask people to rank things in order of their personal preference and importance. | 01:06:49 | |
It was most important to people that whatever we put out there is wide enough for both people walking and biking to avoid | 01:06:55 | |
conflicts between active modes, which you know. | 01:06:59 | |
If you are a trail user, our trails are heavily used and heavily loved, so we're getting wider and wider and wider as we continue | 01:07:04 | |
to build these things. | 01:07:08 | |
Safe pedestrian crossings at those intersections that introduce cars into that pathway are really important to folks. | 01:07:12 | |
And then landscaping and beautification. | 01:07:19 | |
Separation from 2:15 in the path, right? There were some concerns of like is this going to be really noisy? Is this going to be | 01:07:21 | |
uncomfortable or unpleasant if we put this here? | 01:07:26 | |
We actually did go walk out there with UDOT and it's not as loud as you might think. So there are definitely some opportunities | 01:07:30 | |
there and then of course being able to access the the trail from the park. | 01:07:36 | |
This was our second stakeholder meeting out at the park. | 01:07:43 | |
That's the back of Heather's head. I forgot to introduce Heather Hamilton here. She's our designer on this. She's going to | 01:07:48 | |
actually walk through the alternatives with you that she's been working on. | 01:07:51 | |
And so this was a really great kind of boots on the ground experiment of like, OK, what is the grade really look like? What type | 01:07:55 | |
of vegetation is out here? What are the trees that are out here? What does this easement look like? Where is that? How might this | 01:08:01 | |
impact positively or negatively the easement language? We did get a great opinion from John and the city on the easement and and | 01:08:07 | |
feel like this does meet the intention of that easement and there are possibilities and opportunities for. | 01:08:13 | |
Connecting the trail through this area. | 01:08:19 | |
And I will pass it off to Heather now to walk you through the alternatives that we developed. And then there's there's four total | 01:08:23 | |
we we're kind of able to combine them into basically two that we think are kind of preferred. So we'll we'll narrow it down here | 01:08:27 | |
at the end for you. | 01:08:32 | |
Yeah. Good evening. | 01:08:39 | |
So a little background on the alternatives. | 01:08:41 | |
We'll get into it further in the presentation. | 01:08:44 | |
But. | 01:08:47 | |
To the east of the park we kind of broke this into two separate sections, the main section which is east of the OR sorry, West of | 01:08:48 | |
the park to Highland Drive. | 01:08:53 | |
And then we have 4 alternatives for connecting into the park. | 01:08:59 | |
So that's those are the four alternatives I'll go through 1st. | 01:09:04 | |
So you guys are probably familiar with the park there. It's pretty there's this. | 01:09:08 | |
Mountainous area to the. | 01:09:15 | |
Kind of southwest corner, which is where we would connect in. | 01:09:17 | |
We wanted to provide access to both the park and also the trail networks to the east, so that's why we chose this. | 01:09:21 | |
Tying in point. | 01:09:31 | |
I can point on here anyway, but down where you see those electric poles? That's kind of intended to provide access in both | 01:09:33 | |
directions. | 01:09:36 | |
So with these four alternatives, we had a few different goals in mind that guided them. | 01:09:41 | |
For alternative one. | 01:09:47 | |
We really wanted to take the feedback that of having two separate paths for both bikes and pedestrians. | 01:09:48 | |
So this alternative provides a 5% grade which meets ADA compliance. | 01:09:55 | |
And then the 11% grade would be a more direct bicycle access. | 01:10:01 | |
Is an 88 compliant but allows bikes to kind of bypass people that are walking faster route for those that are. | 01:10:07 | |
You know, trying to go from point A to point B. | 01:10:15 | |
Umm. | 01:10:17 | |
This option is about 2.4 million for just the park section. | 01:10:20 | |
For the park plus the area to the West, it's 11.1 million. So you'll see that on all these slides the total cost includes. | 01:10:28 | |
What's to the West as well as this in the park? | 01:10:36 | |
Umm. | 01:10:40 | |
You can go to the next slide please. | 01:10:41 | |
So this is just kind of a profile view of what's happening with those two different routes. | 01:10:44 | |
The 5%. | 01:10:51 | |
A grade versus the 11% grade. So you can just kind of visually see. | 01:10:54 | |
How? | 01:10:59 | |
One would be more comfortable for people. There's about a 35, I forgot to mention a 35 foot elevation difference from the bottom | 01:11:00 | |
to the top. | 01:11:04 | |
That we're trying to connect here, which is why that alternative. | 01:11:09 | |
Zigzags through the park so much. | 01:11:12 | |
We go to the. | 01:11:16 | |
Next. | 01:11:17 | |
This option we were trying to just. | 01:11:19 | |
Make it as most as cost effective as possible. | 01:11:25 | |
So we tried to follow the existing topography. With that, we're only able to have just the one route, 5% grade. Any connections | 01:11:28 | |
between there wouldn't. | 01:11:33 | |
Be able to be a direct. | 01:11:39 | |
Pat. | 01:11:42 | |
As you'll see later, we have a suggestion to add to this, but we'll get into that with this option. It's 1.2 million for the park | 01:11:43 | |
area and 9.9 million total. | 01:11:49 | |
Here's just that profile again showing 5% you can see. | 01:11:57 | |
The yellow dotted line represents the existing surface there, so this option just kind of follows that. | 01:12:00 | |
Close more closely than the other, which is why the cost is lower. | 01:12:07 | |
All these options would require retaining walls, so that's driving a lot of the cost in these it's. | 01:12:13 | |
There's a lot of earthwork and retaining walls involved. | 01:12:19 | |
Next slide please. | 01:12:23 | |
Alternative three. So this one was intended to try to avoid the easement altogether that darker green area. | 01:12:25 | |
So this one would stay within EU dot right of way. | 01:12:32 | |
It. | 01:12:37 | |
Is a little bit steeper grade 8% which. | 01:12:38 | |
Is. | 01:12:42 | |
It does mean 8888 compliance as long as you include ADA landings along the way. | 01:12:44 | |
So it's a little bit more expensive than materials that way. This, as I mentioned, this is a 35 foot elevation difference. | 01:12:50 | |
Through this area, so we're having huge cuts. | 01:12:58 | |
To get from the top to the bottom, you'd have huge retaining walls on both sides. | 01:13:01 | |
Up to like 1520 feet tall. | 01:13:06 | |
So it's expensive, could be a little bit uncomfortable for bikers, it's a little steep. You have bikes coming down that. | 01:13:09 | |
Quickly in the same space that people are walking. | 01:13:16 | |
Umm. | 01:13:22 | |
That total cost 10.3 million. Can you go to the next please? | 01:13:23 | |
Here's that profile view again, just showing that 8%. | 01:13:30 | |
You can go to the next slide. | 01:13:34 | |
So alternative 4 this is kind of the cake option. | 01:13:36 | |
This one would. | 01:13:42 | |
Have 5% or less through the whole route. | 01:13:44 | |
It would stay within UDOT right away. It would involve a bridge over the existing Rd. There it kind of same elevation as 2/15. | 01:13:50 | |
And then it would. | 01:13:59 | |
Come down the slope and tie into the north. | 01:14:00 | |
End of the park up there at the parking lot, so we just gradually just come down the side of the hill there. | 01:14:05 | |
This one is the most expensive 17.2 million obviously because of that structure Benefit is that. | 01:14:11 | |
It's a very comfortable grade. It's kind of a. | 01:14:18 | |
Pretty structure for your city. | 01:14:22 | |
And it stays out of that conservation easement as well. | 01:14:26 | |
You can go to the next slide. | 01:14:30 | |
So this is that section to the West that I was mentioning where we broke it up into. | 01:14:33 | |
We broke it up two parts here, 2000 E to 2300 E and then 23 to Canute Sins. | 01:14:40 | |
And we don't have different alternatives for these options. I mean, they're kind of all comparable, so. | 01:14:47 | |
I'm good. | 01:14:53 | |
Yeah, so this is just showing that those alternatives. | 01:14:57 | |
We're all at the park only. You can go to the next slide please. | 01:15:00 | |
So here's a summary of those cost differences. | 01:15:05 | |
The cheapest one is option 2, which is the one where we try to follow the topography. | 01:15:09 | |
We just have the one 5% route that just kind of. | 01:15:14 | |
Meanders up the hill and then obviously the most expensive is the bridge. | 01:15:18 | |
Again, walls are a huge part of these costs and I should also point out that these are very, very high level cost estimates just | 01:15:24 | |
to kind of to help you guys Dr. funding decisions and more of a. | 01:15:30 | |
Comparative estimate also for deciding between alternatives. | 01:15:36 | |
And go to the next slide. | 01:15:41 | |
So based on the feedback we got from the second meeting in the park, as people kind of walked through taking the survey | 01:15:43 | |
recommendations we developed, we kind of narrowed down to two options. | 01:15:50 | |
That we think. | 01:15:58 | |
Are good options. And. | 01:16:00 | |
And I can explain why to go to the next slide. | 01:16:02 | |
So this one on the left is kind of a combination of the 1st 2 alternatives. | 01:16:06 | |
The connecting path there would actually be more of like a stairway, or it may have to kind of zigzag up. | 01:16:13 | |
So you could still have that meander, but then for those that want a quicker direct route, you could have just kind of a stairway | 01:16:20 | |
there option to connect down. | 01:16:24 | |
Umm. | 01:16:29 | |
And then alternative four is great. | 01:16:31 | |
Because you know, it is a nice feature for the city and stays out of the conservation easement. | 01:16:34 | |
So that's. | 01:16:41 | |
Yeah, there are options. You go to the next slide. | 01:16:43 | |
I don't know, Alexis is a little bit. | 01:16:47 | |
More informed on this part. | 01:16:49 | |
This is sort of a next step slide and we can maybe table it for a second and and answer any of the questions that you have about | 01:16:52 | |
what we ran through. But basically I think there's several great ideas. | 01:16:57 | |
This trail would be pretty attractive for I think the Transportation Alternatives program would be one that comes to mind. | 01:17:34 | |
And I think this. | 01:17:42 | |
Would be a great thing to kind of pursue that way. Most of these funding sources, if they're federal, they require between about 7 | 01:17:45 | |
to 20% match requirements. So the city would have to come up with. | 01:17:50 | |
That percentage of the the cost and and you could use these grant funds to do. | 01:17:56 | |
The final design work which you would absolutely need to do, and then you can also fund construction with them. | 01:18:00 | |
Any questions? | 01:18:07 | |
So what's the? So what's our charge here? Is it to? | 01:18:09 | |
Bring this up in a work session and go back over and then come back with a recommendation. | 01:18:13 | |
John, what direction are you? We're not are we making a decision tonight? No. What we're looking at is, is, is is is a high level | 01:18:18 | |
study that's been prepared for you to show you some alternatives get us in a really good position with with U dot in the state and | 01:18:23 | |
while such regular council. | 01:18:28 | |
If we have a package ready to go, shovel ready that we can apply for, yeah, so we can. We can talk about this a little bit later | 01:18:34 | |
with when we get into depth and all the alternatives and find out what exactly what you'd like to see. Yeah, perfect. I mean this | 01:18:39 | |
looks great. I mean just off the top of my head, I think it's going to be. | 01:18:44 | |
Hard to justify seven $8 million for a bridge right? Is what the wrong spot? What's that? The drop shot in the wrong spot. I also | 01:18:50 | |
have some concerns about the West End though, and where that drops off into kind of a no man's land. OK, but I think there may be | 01:18:56 | |
some alternative. | 01:19:02 | |
An opportunities there, yeah, but. | 01:19:08 | |
Yeah, I think I agree with the the the East End option where you're driving at, but yeah, the the South end. | 01:19:10 | |
Is a no man's land. | 01:19:19 | |
That you won't get people on or off at that spot unless we have some. | 01:19:20 | |
Deeper thinking there, West End, is that what you're saying on the West End on the on the Highland Dr. end, OK, Because that's | 01:19:25 | |
right with the freeway off ramp there, that's no man's land for a biker. | 01:19:30 | |
And I think there's some alternatives there maybe kind of assume we'll be. | 01:19:37 | |
Moving towards that, sorry that. | 01:19:41 | |
Hybrid that you've recommended, which I think looks great as long as we're reminding me of that easement, is that's account, is | 01:19:44 | |
that a county easement? | 01:19:47 | |
Conservation easement. Who's it with? This is an agreement from the county to us to fight conservation and we don't. I'm assuming | 01:19:53 | |
we just, we don't have a problem with that if. | 01:19:57 | |
That have the alternative we go with. Yeah the path is not a problem, it's. | 01:20:02 | |
Any other structure? | 01:20:07 | |
Right. | 01:20:08 | |
OK. | 01:20:09 | |
Well, I know this is Dan's been working on this. Yeah. Yeah. So I I I was part of the working group and appreciate Horrocks and | 01:20:11 | |
all the. | 01:20:14 | |
Partners we had because we had Cottonwood heights there and we had well, such front. | 01:20:19 | |
Regional Council and UDOT and you know we had a big crew there for the for the working group and led by Horrocks and. | 01:20:24 | |
And I agree with what? | 01:20:33 | |
Paul is saying is that that West End that ends at the hotel is is absolutely a no man's land but but we do as you recall have a | 01:20:35 | |
piece in the. | 01:20:41 | |
Holiday Crossroad Zone. | 01:20:47 | |
Which will ultimately we we will think ultimately will be developed in that that area down there that that has a. | 01:20:50 | |
A bike or a pedestrian bike path along at least that stretch of the canal to 6200 S. | 01:20:57 | |
That could that could connect the holiday crossroads to. | 01:21:03 | |
To that path and then we we discussed. | 01:21:07 | |
With I don't think we had anybody from Murray there, but we did discuss. | 01:21:13 | |
They're hard group to get potentially connecting to the Murray Trail system. And I think Murray has on the board a kind of a a | 01:21:17 | |
shared use path along I-215 as well. And that would be ideal because then that would connect further West and go down to into | 01:21:25 | |
Cottonwood Heights, into Murray and Cottonwood Heights and the Wheeler Farm and so on. | 01:21:33 | |
And then of course, the piece that we're experimenting with. | 01:21:41 | |
Canal Trail at least West of Highland Drive in Paul's district. | 01:21:46 | |
You know, so I think right now it's in no man's land, but I think in the future this is going to be a network of of of trails. | 01:21:50 | |
I frankly didn't see the use of the bridge myself and it's a very expensive thing, but. | 01:22:00 | |
Man, depending on what funding we could get. And it really finishes Canuteson Park because. | 01:22:06 | |
Because Canuteson Park is fantastic, but it's definitely not a pedestrian friendly park. | 01:22:12 | |
And you know you drive that section. | 01:22:20 | |
Yeah. It it you drive to the park and you park in that we have great parking lot great facility but this would this would increase | 01:22:23 | |
because this would this would also connect potentially to. | 01:22:28 | |
Cottonwood Heights has in mind their own trail system. | 01:22:33 | |
That would also sort of Nexus up in that area. | 01:22:37 | |
And anyway, I just, I just think this is a great opportunity and and and and we ought to pursue funding. | 01:22:41 | |
And see what, see what can come of it. I think it's a great, great plan. Yeah, I think to your point, that's. | 01:22:49 | |
That is kind of the next step is once we finalize this, this gives us all the tools we need to see if we can go find some money. | 01:22:56 | |
And I honestly think it was incredibly valuable to bring U dot in at this very early stage. They won't be surprised if you submit | 01:23:03 | |
an application to them for funding. They do have some great funding sources for active transportation. They were really, it was | 01:23:08 | |
really great to see them pouring over maps and coming up with solutions. So they are going to be champions of this for you I | 01:23:12 | |
think. | 01:23:17 | |
OK, great. | 01:23:22 | |
Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. Appreciate it. It's been a great project so far. And by the way, Emily. Emily Gray who | 01:23:24 | |
who is? | 01:23:28 | |
The council member elect for my seat. She also participated in all the the working group sessions, so she's up to speed as well | 01:23:33 | |
so. | 01:23:37 | |
Thanks, Emily. | 01:23:42 | |
OK. Thank you very much. | 01:23:44 | |
We are on to item 7 now. This is the rezone. | 01:23:48 | |
That we can, that we had the public hearing on at the last council meeting of the piece down just off of Spring Lane. | 01:23:53 | |
Ordinance 2023-12. | 01:24:00 | |
From PR 110, So I'll open this up to council before we take a motion. | 01:24:03 | |
Any questions or comments? | 01:24:11 | |
I think this is a pretty straightforward. | 01:24:14 | |
Sale of the LDS Chapel there. It's kind of a rare thing. Maybe that could be more commonplace, I don't know, but. | 01:24:17 | |
But the rezone is a zone event. We're fortunate that the application came in as our 1:10. | 01:24:25 | |
Because it's consistent with all the neighborhood around the Chapel. | 01:24:30 | |
So. | 01:24:34 | |
Were you just changed the ordinance number to 13, sorry, 2023 dash 13, OK. And I'd add to that there that there's no. | 01:24:35 | |
Real public use that the city could make of that, you know, it's it's close to these huge parks. | 01:24:44 | |
It it's sort of sort of in a neighborhood would be very small little park. I just think this is the best use for the land. | 01:24:51 | |
How would you like to that Mister Mayor? I move approval of ordinance 2023 dash 13, you say, Stephanie? | 01:25:01 | |
Amending the Hardy zone map for property located for rank 30 SW Moore Rd. from P to R110. | 01:25:09 | |
I'll second. OK. We have a motion a second. Thank you, Councilmember Brewer. | 01:25:15 | |
Yes. Council member Durham, Yes. Council member Fotheringham, Yes. Council member Quinn, Yes. Council member Gibbons, Yes and | 01:25:20 | |
chair votes Yes. | 01:25:23 | |
That rezone application is approved. Thank you, Council. | 01:25:28 | |
The next one is the. | 01:25:31 | |
Text amendment, I guess, to Title 13 to internally illuminated fuel price signs within the holiday village zone Ordinance 2023-12. | 01:25:34 | |
As I mentioned in the prior work session, I didn't get the sense that there was. | 01:25:45 | |
Complete consensus among the Council on how this vote is going to go. | 01:25:50 | |
So I would open this up for. | 01:25:55 | |
Comment prior to taking a vote and kind of see where people are on this particular issue. | 01:25:57 | |
Mr. Mayor, I'll start out. I, you know, so my. | 01:26:03 | |
I'm not sure I'm concerned with the. | 01:26:07 | |
The physical aspects of the the the ordinance itself with the with the signage what I am concerned about. | 01:26:10 | |
Is carving out. | 01:26:17 | |
A special class. | 01:26:19 | |
You know, it's it's in a limited area, but it's just one industry and what I'm concerned about is that. | 01:26:21 | |
Is that we open the door to. | 01:26:27 | |
Other merchants of various kinds, restaurants. | 01:26:31 | |
As school, you know well, we don't have any schools in the in the, in the, in the zone, but restaurants for example, or other | 01:26:35 | |
merchants who might say, well, I want to sign and why? Why does the gas station get one? | 01:26:42 | |
And. | 01:26:49 | |
I I if it were, if it were a broader based ordinance, I think I might. | 01:26:51 | |
Be persuadable to vote for it, but I think in in the, in the. | 01:26:56 | |
Posture. It's in right now. I think I'm in no vote. | 01:26:59 | |
Just because I don't like the idea of carving it out for this one industry. | 01:27:02 | |
Yeah, I would agree with that Dan. And also the the other argument we've been talking about which is we just. | 01:27:08 | |
There's the camel's nose. | 01:27:14 | |
Argument where we've been able to. | 01:27:16 | |
Excuse me, where we've been able to? | 01:27:19 | |
Protect ourselves from the Billboard industry. | 01:27:21 | |
And their electronic signage, where in the past we've seen the legislature try to say if you're doing electronic signage, then | 01:27:24 | |
you've got to allow for electronic billboards. And it was our lack of electronic signage which allowed us to dodge that bullet. | 01:27:30 | |
And even though that pretty simple legislation never actually came to fruition. | 01:27:35 | |
There's It was kind of a warning shot across the bow that it very well could. | 01:27:41 | |
I think I'm actually more concerned about yours. | 01:27:47 | |
Being a carve out just because they you, you never know what's gonna happen on the legislative mandate side that that can be kind | 01:27:51 | |
of a crapshoot. | 01:27:54 | |
The funny thing is, I really don't have any objection. I think it's actually improvement to the village if you allowed what | 01:27:59 | |
they're asking for for that specific location. The problem is the precedent. | 01:28:04 | |
Not the specific ask for that location, but that's those are the types of decisions we have to make are the ones that set | 01:28:09 | |
precedent and I'm a little bit. | 01:28:13 | |
Weary, and until I can get some comfort that we're not setting a precedent that all of a sudden opens a Pandora's box, I'm gonna | 01:28:17 | |
have to be no too. | 01:28:21 | |
I think I share the same concerns of Council Member Givens and Council Member Fotheringham. I was going to use the camel nose | 01:28:28 | |
metaphor myself, but sorry. | 01:28:32 | |
I also. | 01:28:38 | |
Just know that there have been some pretty important community stakeholders that have asked for signs and we've told them no and I | 01:28:40 | |
think it would be difficult to sort of explain how we're doing this carve out for a gas station in the village. | 01:28:46 | |
So I I I'm inclined to vote now. | 01:28:53 | |
I'll just say. | 01:28:59 | |
I appreciate what my fellow council members have said I. | 01:29:01 | |
This is a tough one, I would say because. | 01:29:06 | |
From a pragmatic standpoint, when when Council Member Gibbons mentions carving out something for specific industry. | 01:29:09 | |
It's tough because. | 01:29:16 | |
I. | 01:29:19 | |
Pretty much every gas station that I'm familiar with publishes their prices somehow. | 01:29:20 | |
And so it's hard for me to. | 01:29:25 | |
From and I'm I wasn't here when the original zone was put in place. | 01:29:28 | |
And I can appreciate the desire to keep. | 01:29:34 | |
Garish electric signs. | 01:29:38 | |
Down to an acceptable level, I guess. | 01:29:40 | |
And so I don't know that I like the legislation the way that it's written right now and I would probably vote no for it, but I | 01:29:44 | |
would say I think we. | 01:29:48 | |
It's really. | 01:29:53 | |
We have a bit of a responsibility to find an acceptable solution for them, maybe with some better crafted legislation. | 01:29:56 | |
Something that looks at things like. | 01:30:02 | |
The luminescence of the lights or, you know, whatever, whatever those characteristics are that that are viewed as undesirable. I. | 01:30:05 | |
And it doesn't sit well with me. I guess I would say to not be able to provide some type of a solution. So. | 01:30:13 | |
Agree with that too. | 01:30:20 | |
Yeah, I I think that's probably where I'm at. I think it's. | 01:30:22 | |
Just in some ways it's silly not to allow gas station to put those signs up, but on the same. | 01:30:27 | |
Token. When I look at how narrowly the amendment is written inside the code, it really refers to numbers. | 01:30:33 | |
And if somebody came and said, and I keep coming back to this, but I don't see the difference between a number and a letter and so | 01:30:41 | |
if somebody came and said, well. | 01:30:45 | |
I'm willing to meet that same requirement that the gas station is, but I just want to use letters and numbers. | 01:30:50 | |
I would have a hard time justifying that, so I'm all for if we can. | 01:30:56 | |
They put this code into the zone for a reason when they created the zone, right? Because they didn't want to create. | 01:31:01 | |
Garish. | 01:31:07 | |
Group of signs inside the village. | 01:31:10 | |
So if we could come up with a broader way. | 01:31:12 | |
To. | 01:31:16 | |
Accomplish that and still allow them to do it. I'd be for it, but the way this is written, I'm going to have a hard. I have a hard | 01:31:17 | |
time supporting it as well. | 01:31:21 | |
So Drew, I don't know if you want to add my team to that. | 01:31:27 | |
Well. | 01:31:30 | |
I. | 01:31:31 | |
I agree with everything that's been said. I. | 01:31:34 | |
Have trouble, I have a hard time. | 01:31:37 | |
Treating different. | 01:31:41 | |
Treating one gas station that's inside the village differently from a gas station that's outside of the village. | 01:31:45 | |
And that's the way it is now. I I feel bad that they they cannot put up. | 01:31:51 | |
You know, the sign that they want to put up, on the other hand. | 01:31:57 | |
I feel bad that we would. | 01:32:01 | |
Allow a gas. You know, if we would allow a gas station to do something that we wouldn't allow anybody else to do. | 01:32:04 | |
Inside the village. | 01:32:10 | |
And I think for businesses that have been in the village for a long time and have been. | 01:32:12 | |
Compliant with. | 01:32:17 | |
These. | 01:32:18 | |
Restrictions that we have just inside the village, I think that would be. | 01:32:19 | |
Really unfair to them and I I. | 01:32:24 | |
Again. | 01:32:27 | |
I agree with everybody. | 01:32:28 | |
This is a hard one, and maybe we will. | 01:32:30 | |
At some point, go back and readdress it. | 01:32:34 | |
Try and find something that that would work better than the. | 01:32:37 | |
Ordinance that we're looking at tonight. But I agree I I think I I'm going to be voting no. | 01:32:40 | |
Yeah, and even I know. | 01:32:47 | |
I admit I didn't look into it in detail time, but you said sent some. | 01:32:49 | |
Options that maybe weren't illuminated that we could look at that. | 01:32:54 | |
Allowed. | 01:32:58 | |
Some sort of option that maybe didn't. | 01:32:59 | |
Wasn't garish. | 01:33:02 | |
That we could consider more broadly in the village and not just restrict it to a gas station, I'd be open to that, but. | 01:33:04 | |
So Todd, I'm never sure I've had a motion where I know all the votes are going to be no, Is that do we just not take a motion, let | 01:33:11 | |
it fail or do we open it and then do no votes or do we take a motion to deny the application? What's the proper way to any of | 01:33:16 | |
those work? OK. | 01:33:20 | |
Can I make one other comment on on that note? So was it it was the property owner there that that put the? | 01:33:25 | |
Came to staff and staff, prepared the legislation like this. I would just say that the the solution I was had shared with the with | 01:33:32 | |
the mayor was you know like the the signs that are on Jumbotron type things where it says. | 01:33:37 | |
That's Flipboard type things that because I I get it right. Again, it's a gas station. It's common practice to have prices | 01:33:43 | |
published. | 01:33:47 | |
And it's a hassle to go out and have to flip through numbers of suction cups and you know and and remove them and that kind of | 01:33:52 | |
thing. And so I would, I would almost encourage if if that's something that that the gas station is looking for. I would almost | 01:33:59 | |
encourage that they explore things that might be acceptable in in that arena so that we could craft some legislation that would I | 01:34:07 | |
think honor the original intent of the of the zoning but also make it less onerous on them to. | 01:34:14 | |
Have been be broadly accepted in the zone right? | 01:34:22 | |
I also wouldn't wouldn't object if if it was. | 01:34:26 | |
Whatever ordinance we came up with, if it was expanded to allow it. | 01:34:30 | |
A non garish kind of deal for the schools. | 01:34:34 | |
I mean. | 01:34:37 | |
So we've had, we've had, I think at least two schools come forward to us and say, hey, can we? | 01:34:38 | |
Can we put it? We're going to have it. It's going to say this week's teacher, you know? | 01:34:43 | |
Teacher appreciation or we got back to school night or whatever. | 01:34:47 | |
In. | 01:34:50 | |
Of course that's a separate issue from the village because none of those are three separate issue from the village, but that that | 01:34:51 | |
would be kind of neat for the school if we're going to allow more generally. | 01:34:55 | |
Why not let the schools do it too? I don't know. | 01:35:00 | |
Here's the other option, where that gas station is at the very South end of the zone. | 01:35:03 | |
Perhaps a rezone? | 01:35:09 | |
Yeah, I was thinking the same. | 01:35:10 | |
Do you really want to talk about it? No, I'm just, I'm just trying to I that's a brainstormer right there. I'm not. I'm not, you | 01:35:13 | |
know, proponent of that. I'm just throwing out ideas. | 01:35:18 | |
But maybe that's a good workstation thing instead of in during session. So yeah, Parliamentary question for you though, Todd, you | 01:35:23 | |
said any of those options are available. What happens though if the motion is? | 01:35:28 | |
To not to deny and it fails. Does that mean it passes because you've got the four two thing? No. You would still require | 01:35:33 | |
affirmative votes to pass. | 01:35:38 | |
A proposal like this, so it's just that the negative passes, it's a done deal, but if it fails then it doesn't mean the opposite | 01:35:44 | |
if if there's if, the application doesn't succeed. | 01:35:48 | |
Then it fails by operation of law, whether you. | 01:35:54 | |
Do it by silence or by an affirmative negative vote if I could use a bad metaphor. | 01:35:57 | |
So. | 01:36:03 | |
Either way, I'll just go ahead and do it the normal way. I'll I'll and change the motion, sorry, change it to 14. | 01:36:04 | |
OK, so I'll do it the normal way, although I'm going to know just so knowing it's confused. | 01:36:13 | |
That I would propose a vote. | 01:36:18 | |
An ordinance. | 01:36:23 | |
2023-12. | 01:36:25 | |
4-14 I'm sorry, you just told me that. | 01:36:27 | |
Moved to I'll say move to approve so we know what what direction to vote move to approve Ordinance 2023-14, amending provisions of | 01:36:31 | |
Title 13 related to internally on the data. | 01:36:36 | |
Fuel signs in the Holiday Village Zone. | 01:36:42 | |
Second OK, so we have a motion in a second. So if if, if you would like this. | 01:36:45 | |
Amendment to be approved. The vote is yes. If you don't want it to be approved, the vote is no, Correct. OK. | 01:36:50 | |
All right, Council member Brewer. | 01:36:56 | |
No. | 01:36:58 | |
Council member Durham? No. Council member fathering him? No. Councilmember Quinn? No. Council Member Gibbons? No. | 01:36:59 | |
And chair votes no and the provision is defeated and. | 01:37:05 | |
There will be no change to the ordinance. | 01:37:10 | |
OK. | 01:37:14 | |
Get that right, Todd? | 01:37:15 | |
OK. Thanks, Paul. | 01:37:16 | |
All right, no city manager report, Council reports. | 01:37:18 | |
We'll start with tie down at the end. | 01:37:24 | |
Let's see. Let me pull up on my notes. | 01:37:28 | |
Umm. | 01:37:32 | |
Few things I did. | 01:37:35 | |
The chocolate what's it called? Chocolate milk? Chocolate milk. Judge. The Chalk The Walk wanted to thank Paul for recommending | 01:37:37 | |
that it was a it was a great. | 01:37:41 | |
Event and it was impressive to see the talent that was on display. I love things like that, that bring you know the sense of | 01:37:45 | |
community that brings and all the people that were there and it was great. | 01:37:50 | |
And thank the Art Council for and Cheryl and all that they do to to to push those things. Those types of events was great, great | 01:37:56 | |
event. | 01:38:00 | |
Just and I. | 01:38:05 | |
Forget if I mentioned this or not, but Chief Hoyle. | 01:38:06 | |
Is it annually on this community police Academy? | 01:38:09 | |
Yeah, I I've it's like it's a long program. It was like I think it's a 10 or 11 weeks every Tuesday night I've been going to this | 01:38:13 | |
community police Academy and. | 01:38:17 | |
I thought that the fire school was long too. It was a full Saturday. This is longer in aggregate, but I I have to say, it's been | 01:38:23 | |
really a great every every night that we've gone. It's just been very informative, helped me become less ignorant about all that. | 01:38:30 | |
Are. | 01:38:39 | |
Police law enforcement officers do in all the different divisions. | 01:38:40 | |
And it's really a great thing. So if that comes up again next year, I guess I would just encourage my fellow council members, | 01:38:44 | |
frankly, anybody from the community really, there are most of the people that are. There are really just people from the | 01:38:50 | |
community. There's 30 or so attendees, but you, you know. | 01:38:55 | |
They got, we had a big demonstration on the SWAT teams this last week and on drone surveillance and on canine. The canine units | 01:39:01 | |
they they they go through through it also. It's been very good. | 01:39:06 | |
The other thing I thought I'd just mentioned is I had a constituent reach out about this and I know that we're coming into winter | 01:39:14 | |
and this isn't the time of year at this point, but I've done a little bit more homework on this. | 01:39:19 | |
There's some Salt Lake City had a subsidized grass seed program for the for a seed blend that uses 30% less water. And so from a | 01:39:24 | |
water conservation standpoint. | 01:39:30 | |
And and the problem is, is that Salt Lake City is virtually always out of that seed. And I think it's because it's subsidized and | 01:39:38 | |
it's so cheap. | 01:39:41 | |
But they do provide four different suppliers, private suppliers where you do still have you have to pay for it and it's more but | 01:39:46 | |
it's still in the scheme of things not very expensive. And and so I I just thought I just mentioned that from a we had an issue | 01:39:51 | |
recently on water conservation as you all know and and I just thought I would just mention that there's a resource there for this | 01:39:56 | |
seed mix that. | 01:40:01 | |
In the spirit of conserving water, I think is is just merits general knowledge and it's it's a good thing. | 01:40:07 | |
Um. | 01:40:13 | |
And lastly. | 01:40:14 | |
I think I mentioned earlier in our session, but we do have with there is a fundraising effort underway and Pathways and Associates | 01:40:17 | |
has been helping with that that effort. Specifically right now the the the push has been around this funding for video | 01:40:25 | |
surveillance and lights of the of the skate park. But in addition to that it's the gazebo and the and the historical walk and | 01:40:32 | |
there's a competition going on right now to to to encourage more of a grassroots fundraising. | 01:40:40 | |
Effort with prizes that will be awarded on November 2nd when there's a an event to clean the the skate park. | 01:40:47 | |
And so that's underway, I thought I'd, I'd mentioned that. | 01:40:55 | |
And then lastly, another issue that's reared its head I think prior to me being on the council, but it it was a a big issue at one | 01:40:59 | |
point. | 01:41:03 | |
Centered around dogs and and the challenges that some of the elementary schools with with off leash dogs and there are city | 01:41:09 | |
ordinances for these and I had a constituent reach out very frustrated because of the mass that his kids come home with every. | 01:41:16 | |
Very frequently and and out and as I've looked into that and as you all probably know it's a widespread issue that basically every | 01:41:24 | |
school struggles with and I've been in contact with Julie Jackson on the Granite school board and they're they're pushing to just | 01:41:31 | |
try to it. It's one of those things that I think just takes and I think Chief Oil too as as their as the it's a difficult those | 01:41:37 | |
those laws that are on the books holiday. | 01:41:44 | |
Code about picking up after dogs and about not having dogs off leash are difficult ones to enforce. Really. Just because. | 01:41:51 | |
You have to be there to in the moment to see it and so. | 01:41:58 | |
But. | 01:42:01 | |
Julie is. | 01:42:04 | |
Making a big push to try to address this and. | 01:42:06 | |
It's one of those cases, I think, where if if we can't have responsible behavior, then privileges will be lost, I think or or | 01:42:09 | |
something to that effect and so. | 01:42:13 | |
We don't have a lot of. | 01:42:17 | |
Dog parks, you know in in holiday and so I can, I can understand. | 01:42:19 | |
Why that would be happening but. | 01:42:25 | |
But hopefully our residents and those that are using those. | 01:42:28 | |
Using those public properties can be more responsible so that that privilege isn't lost. | 01:42:33 | |
That's my report. Thanks, Matt. | 01:42:38 | |
Just two or three things. I attended the Crestview Community Council a week or so ago. They have a new principal there and elected | 01:42:41 | |
new officers, and they're looking forward to a new year, so I made the connection with. | 01:42:47 | |
The new principal and. | 01:42:54 | |
I think that will be a good a good relationship I. | 01:42:57 | |
I attended the tree committee meeting today and they brought up a couple of things that I think are worth mentioning. One is. | 01:43:00 | |
They expressed some concern. | 01:43:09 | |
And. | 01:43:11 | |
I wouldn't have thought of this, so this is one of the good things of me being on the tree committee. | 01:43:12 | |
But with the. | 01:43:16 | |
Reconstruction of the entryway. | 01:43:18 | |
There were some trees that were lost that they think could have been salvaged and replanted somewhere else and so they were | 01:43:20 | |
suggesting that if. | 01:43:23 | |
There are other construction projects or or demolition projects or things that this on city property. | 01:43:28 | |
Maybe we coordinate with them on? | 01:43:34 | |
On what we do with the trees that are there. | 01:43:37 | |
Jerome is a Jeremiah elder. Could you say the same? He was, he was there and he. | 01:43:42 | |
Is a really helpful kind of. | 01:43:48 | |
Exofficio member of the committee and offered to help out with that on a volunteer basis, so I just raised that as something that | 01:43:51 | |
maybe we should be aware of. And then. | 01:43:55 | |
I talked to John about this a little bit earlier, but. | 01:44:00 | |
They they expressed some concerns about the. | 01:44:04 | |
Flip the strip program and what happens to the trees that are in this parking? | 01:44:09 | |
Strip area or the city the city tree area if the if the turf is removed. | 01:44:14 | |
And wanted to talk about and explore ways to maybe make sure that we're protecting the irrigation for the trees and. | 01:44:20 | |
Educating our citizens about the importance of continuing to water the trees, even if they take out their turf. | 01:44:26 | |
And I really want to thank John John's. | 01:44:31 | |
Kind of taking the initiative to help start a discussion on that, but I think that will be an important thing. | 01:44:34 | |
For us to think about and those those, those are the two that two or three things for my report. | 01:44:39 | |
Just two quick things. First, thanks to Jared, our City Engineer and Chief Hoyle and his team. | 01:44:45 | |
We. | 01:44:51 | |
But some might have mentioned this in the previous council meeting, but we've put some no parking signs on. Lower Lakewood, | 01:44:53 | |
adjacent to the Colwood Country Club, is generally when there are larger events to get parking on both sides of the streets, which | 01:44:58 | |
makes it way too skinny for emergency vehicles or for cars to get through. | 01:45:04 | |
And so with the no parking on that one side, that's been very effective. And particularly now that that's not just a quick club | 01:45:11 | |
events, we've got 3 new homes that were scraped and new construction. And so there's a lot of cars that were on both sides of the | 01:45:14 | |
street. | 01:45:18 | |
But um, we've made it. No parking on the one side to alleviate that problem. But then. | 01:45:22 | |
When there were folks who were not paying attention to those signs, I was able to call Chief Oil and he had his traffic person | 01:45:28 | |
take care of that for us. But it's been a success, I think, in terms of improving the safety of the street. | 01:45:33 | |
I don't think the the members are a problem anymore and it is created a safer environment. The second thing is just briefly. | 01:45:40 | |
The big sculpture on the village Plaza. I hope you've noticed it. It is frigging awesome. | 01:45:49 | |
If that's a technical term I can use at City Council. | 01:45:55 | |
It's beautiful. I mean, we all on the Arts Council, we were all very excited about it. But of course we're all a little bit | 01:45:59 | |
nervous until it actually gets installed, you know? | 01:46:03 | |
But now that it's been installed, it's just a glorious addition to the city, and I'm just. | 01:46:08 | |
Very proud of our Arts Council for putting that together and and providing that great new piece of art, public art, in our main | 01:46:13 | |
village square. It's awesome. | 01:46:17 | |
So I have. | 01:46:23 | |
True. | 01:46:25 | |
Thank you. I was able to go to the Morningside Community Council a couple weeks ago. | 01:46:26 | |
And. | 01:46:31 | |
Also the Morningside PTA Carnival. | 01:46:33 | |
And I was able to be in the booth with a librarian and and we. | 01:46:37 | |
Encourage kids to read. We would read to them or they would read to each other. That was a really fun event. | 01:46:43 | |
And Speaking of the library, I went there. | 01:46:49 | |
This last Saturday. | 01:46:52 | |
To. | 01:46:54 | |
Just to exchange to get a new book and realize that it was their eclipse. | 01:46:57 | |
Preparation for the Eclipse day and I've got to say our holiday library people do things so well. | 01:47:03 | |
They had crafts for the kids. They were handing out glasses. | 01:47:10 | |
Fort so that you could look at the eclipse without, you know, safely. | 01:47:14 | |
And they had telescopes set up people from the planetarium. | 01:47:18 | |
Planet. Yeah. Anyway, it was it was a wonderful event. So we really in our library have a great resource and that's it. | 01:47:24 | |
This real quick I met since our last meeting. I met with the. | 01:47:34 | |
RFP Review Committee for the Holiday Historical Exhibit Experiences. | 01:47:38 | |
Project as you recall we've we've budgeted $850,000 for that, including some grant money. | 01:47:44 | |
And anyway, Tuesday morning we'll be interviewing. | 01:47:51 | |
3 applicants, 33 firms that submitted. | 01:47:55 | |
Proposals and so that'll be good and I'm sure there will be a recommendation come to the council sometime after that. So so Holly | 01:48:00 | |
and and Gina are also involved as well as. | 01:48:06 | |
Sandy Meadows, who's the chair of the Historical Commission. So anyway, we're meeting Tuesday morning and. | 01:48:13 | |
That's all I got. | 01:48:19 | |
OK. I'm out of the interest of time. First I just want to say remind me. | 01:48:21 | |
How fortunate we are to have engaged council members. | 01:48:27 | |
Ben Horsley, who's the communications director for granted, always comments on. | 01:48:30 | |
How impressed he is. | 01:48:35 | |
That our city actually has liaisons that work with our public school infrastructure and actually go to those meetings. | 01:48:37 | |
And our engagement on the Elkwood issue, they're not used to that. | 01:48:43 | |
And I don't want to take that for granted. I don't think this council should take for granted. | 01:48:47 | |
Appreciation grant As for our engagement with our public school infrastructure, like a direct engagement. | 01:48:52 | |
And you know, just 22 council members reporting their meetings and I know. | 01:48:58 | |
Today's been and I've. | 01:49:02 | |
Been remiss in not reaching out to. | 01:49:04 | |
But I'll get on that, but we're really lucky to have that and. | 01:49:06 | |
We'll be moving over across the hall. We're obviously not going to make the 8:00 estimate. I never know how long this stuff's | 01:49:10 | |
gonna go. I apologize. | 01:49:14 | |
But we will be starting, we're doing, we do the best we can and I thought we'd get a little bit further in the work session, but. | 01:49:19 | |
We have a very important presentation from. | 01:49:26 | |
Are. | 01:49:29 | |
Our Chief and the UPD about the transition there that we'll be starting with, we'll see how long that goes. It will probably be | 01:49:31 | |
fairly lengthy. I'm thinking 45 minutes to an hour and then we'll move right into that butternut discussion. So I apologize for | 01:49:37 | |
the delay, but we're doing the best we can and with that I'd take a motion to recess to work meeting. | 01:49:43 | |
Mr. Mayor, I move that we recess in to a work session. | 01:49:51 | |
2nd. | 01:49:56 | |
Motion and second all in favor. Say aye, aye, and we are recessed. We'll move, take a couple minute break and move right across | 01:49:58 | |
the hall. | 01:50:01 |
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I can start. | 00:00:43 | |
OK. | 00:00:45 | |
Then we will start. Welcome everybody. I am going to call to order the City Council meeting for the City of holiday on Thursday, | 00:00:47 | |
October 5th. | 00:00:50 | |
And we will start with the pledge if everybody please rise. | 00:00:54 | |
I pledge allegiance to the flag. | 00:01:01 | |
United States of America. | 00:01:05 | |
And to the Republic for which it stands. | 00:01:07 | |
Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. | 00:01:10 | |
OK. Thank you everybody. Before we open public comment, let me just state that we have. | 00:01:19 | |
Two public hearings this evening. Items number four and five. | 00:01:25 | |
I'm assuming most of the people here are going to be here for item number. | 00:01:30 | |
Five, which is the Butternut Rezone public hearing? | 00:01:34 | |
So if you're here for either of those, if you'd Please wait till we open those public hearings to address the Council, we would | 00:01:39 | |
appreciate it. | 00:01:43 | |
If you are here to address the Council on other than those two public hearings. | 00:01:47 | |
We would ask you to come up to the podium and give us your name, address and this would be for the public hearings as well. Name, | 00:01:53 | |
address and try to keep your comments to 3 minutes or less unless you were speaking on behalf of a larger group. | 00:02:00 | |
So other than the two public hearings, public comment is now open. Anybody here to address the council? | 00:02:06 | |
On other than the two public hearings. | 00:02:13 | |
OK, there being none, we will close public comment and we will move to item number 4. | 00:02:20 | |
This will be a public hearing on proposed rezone for property located at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. from R&R 143 zone to an | 00:02:27 | |
R110 zone. | 00:02:33 | |
Counsel, this information is in your packet as well as the staff report and we're going to invite Kerry Marsh up to address the | 00:02:40 | |
Council, cover the staff report and field any questions that the council has before we open up the public hearing so. | 00:02:47 | |
Carry the podium is yours. | 00:02:55 | |
Great. Thank you, Mayor. So this proposed rezone is? | 00:02:59 | |
For properties at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. going from an R143 zone to an R110 zone, the two properties as they exist don't | 00:03:04 | |
conform to the R143 zone. Their lot size is smaller than one acre. | 00:03:13 | |
And the intent of the property owner is to. | 00:03:23 | |
The rezone enables them to move the lot line between neighbouring property that they own on Cottonwood Blvd. | 00:03:27 | |
So it will increase the size of the property on Cottonwood Blvd. And decrease the size of these two properties to about .4 acres | 00:03:35 | |
each. | 00:03:40 | |
And the. | 00:03:45 | |
They want to increase the size of the Cottonwood Blvd. Property because of a large accessory building that they have plans to | 00:03:48 | |
build there. They have a conditional use permit for that accessory building. | 00:03:53 | |
And want to increase some area behind it so that there's more of a buffer between the. | 00:03:58 | |
Between the properties. | 00:04:03 | |
Any questions on that that I can answer? | 00:04:05 | |
I got a couple of questions so. | 00:04:09 | |
There's a property immediately to the South. | 00:04:12 | |
On the same side of the street of Holiday Blvd. That looks like it's an even smaller, nonconforming lot. | 00:04:15 | |
Right. Are there other non conforming lots to the South or is this kind of the further reach of the of the non conforming? | 00:04:21 | |
Pieces. | 00:04:27 | |
I didn't look further South. It looked like that is likely the furthest reach of those nonconforming, but there is likely some | 00:04:28 | |
other properties in that R143 zone that are nonconforming that's fairly consistent in all of our zones. We sometimes end up with | 00:04:35 | |
parcels that are a little bit smaller that were that are legal but nonconforming. | 00:04:42 | |
Yeah. And thanks. And then the other question I had was so the, so the, the back piece of that of those two lots, the Holiday | 00:04:49 | |
Blvd. lots is the there's going to be a conveyance of those. | 00:04:56 | |
Lots to the. | 00:05:03 | |
Well, they all, they're all common owner, but to the property owners on Cottonwood Lane and then those lots will be combined, | 00:05:05 | |
right, So that that'll become. | 00:05:09 | |
A new like 1.5 acre lot, is that right? No, they're going to keep those as two separate parcels. So that's why they're wanting to | 00:05:14 | |
go down to the R110 zone so that they can, ohh, I see I got you. But the but the the lot on Cottonwood, Cottonwood Lane is going | 00:05:21 | |
to remain R143, yes. OK. Yep. Property size on that will increase to about an acre and 1/2. So it won't be able to be subdivided | 00:05:27 | |
even when it takes on more land. Great. Hey, thanks. | 00:05:34 | |
Any other questions? OK. | 00:05:47 | |
Questions from council. OK. Thanks, Carrie. | 00:05:50 | |
All right. With that then we are going to open the public hearing on this application. Well, I guess I should ask first, is the | 00:05:55 | |
applicant here? | 00:05:59 | |
OK. So we will open the public hearing. Is anybody here to address the council on this rezone application? | 00:06:04 | |
Somebody's just walking in. I'll bet they're not here for that either. | 00:06:15 | |
OK. With that then we are going to close this public hearing. Thank you. | 00:06:19 | |
Now item number 5 is a public hearing on proposed rezone for three properties located at. | 00:06:24 | |
4437 E Butternut Road 2475 E 4500 S and. | 00:06:30 | |
2485 E-40. | 00:06:37 | |
500 S from the R18 and R110 zones. | 00:06:39 | |
To an R28 zone. | 00:06:43 | |
Again, we have a pretty extensive. | 00:06:47 | |
Staff report in the packet that the Council has reviewed. We also received a summary of the Planning Commission. | 00:06:52 | |
Hearing on this with all the details that were included in the Planning Commission hearing. | 00:07:00 | |
And I have some comments, but I think and questions but I think I'm going to. | 00:07:07 | |
Reserve all that until we hear the staff report on this and then I would encourage. | 00:07:12 | |
Let me just say that for the audience that's here's typically we'll get a staff report, I have a few questions, we'll open the | 00:07:18 | |
public hearing, sometimes we'll close, sometimes we won't. And then you'll notice on our agenda that that we have a follow up | 00:07:23 | |
where we discussed these public hearings. | 00:07:28 | |
I'm going to try to extend what we cover publicly. | 00:07:36 | |
To get all those questions out in the open, so you can hear what the council has to say at this point. So I don't take up too much | 00:07:40 | |
of your time. But having said that, we still will have follow-up discussion on this in the work session. | 00:07:47 | |
But it may be. | 00:07:54 | |
We'll see how this goes right here. If I feel like we get it all out, then we I may readjust our work session agenda and move it | 00:07:57 | |
to the front. So I don't keep any everybody. If it looks like there's still a lot of discussion to be had after that, I hope I'm | 00:08:02 | |
not confusing you. I'll leave it as agenda and it might be. | 00:08:08 | |
8:00 before we get to that, if that makes sense so. | 00:08:14 | |
Carrie, let's start with your review of the staff report and then I'm going to encourage our council to. | 00:08:18 | |
To start asking questions that they have regarding this application which is a little bit more complicated than the previous one. | 00:08:25 | |
Great. Thank you, Mayor. So this proposal of a rezone as mentioned on the three properties, 4437 S, Butternut 2475 E. | 00:08:37 | |
And 2485 E both on 45th South. | 00:08:48 | |
Um. | 00:08:51 | |
Three separate property owners that joined this application together to rezone to an R2 zone. | 00:08:52 | |
The. | 00:09:01 | |
Main reasons for staff support on this one is that in the General Plan this area along 45th South. | 00:09:03 | |
In a transit corridor is supported to be rezoned to. | 00:09:11 | |
Multifamily transitional, which includes an R28 zone. | 00:09:18 | |
There's multiple zones in that multifamily transitional, including R210R28. | 00:09:22 | |
I think R1. | 00:09:29 | |
For as well. | 00:09:31 | |
With selecting the R28 zone, staff felt that that was the enabled the best use of each individual property based off of those size | 00:09:34 | |
the sizes of the existing properties. | 00:09:40 | |
That would. | 00:09:47 | |
Create. | 00:09:48 | |
The units that the that the applicants are desiring to to create on their own property. It's not an application that's coming from | 00:09:53 | |
a developer. The parcels are not being combined together, so they'll retain and separate ownership, so they're limited just by the | 00:09:58 | |
size of their own property. | 00:10:03 | |
The middle property is. Let's see. We'll start on the first property, which is on Butternut. It's on the corner. | 00:10:10 | |
It is .18 acres and underneath it is. | 00:10:17 | |
Less than 8000 square feet to meet requirements to have two units on that property. It does not. | 00:10:23 | |
Meet those requirements. So that property would not be able to have two rentable units on that. | 00:10:31 | |
And so the R2 zone effectively doesn't. | 00:10:38 | |
Enable them to use. | 00:10:42 | |
The property that they have for more than just a single family. | 00:10:45 | |
There's a possibility with that R2 zone if they were to pick up. | 00:10:49 | |
Some additional land or moving lot lines between neighbors that they could possibly create a a second unit. | 00:10:54 | |
Or use a second unit in that R2 zone, or utilize the R2 zone. | 00:11:02 | |
But as it is, yeah. | 00:11:07 | |
So I'm a little confused in that. | 00:11:10 | |
Although the Planning Commission thought one way, the staff recommendation was positive and yet you know you're saying that but it | 00:11:12 | |
wouldn't comply. | 00:11:16 | |
So I'm confused how there could be a recommendation to proceed from the staff. | 00:11:21 | |
When they don't meet the parameters to. | 00:11:26 | |
To meet to do that. | 00:11:31 | |
Help me understand that. Sure. Incongruence there. Yeah. So the the R2 zone, you can still have a single family dwelling on it, | 00:11:34 | |
so. | 00:11:39 | |
That property, just because of its size, would only be able to have one unit on it. | 00:11:44 | |
If they were to adjust the property size, then they could. Additionally, they could potentially have. | 00:11:49 | |
More than one unit, but it would require. | 00:11:55 | |
Property size adjustment. | 00:11:58 | |
So you can have single units, like an individual unit in an R2 zone that R2 zone. | 00:12:00 | |
You don't have without additional property. | 00:12:08 | |
Nothing really can be accomplished on that one, right? | 00:12:10 | |
And you were talking about the one on the West End of the Yes, Yep, that's on the corner of Butternut and 40. | 00:12:14 | |
Whatever, this side rows 4430 I think. | 00:12:22 | |
So R2 zone. | 00:12:27 | |
Maybe a potential future use? | 00:12:29 | |
The property owner kind of instigated the application and brought in the neighbors that are interested in the R2 zone as well. | 00:12:32 | |
Staff saw it as a potential for a future opportunity if there was some agreements between property owners. | 00:12:42 | |
But as it stands that it that it would not. | 00:12:51 | |
It would not be applicable to have two units. | 00:12:56 | |
On the property. | 00:12:58 | |
So just to be clear. | 00:13:00 | |
The property owner said that they wanted to rent the Adu that's under their garage. | 00:13:02 | |
They can do that without changing the zone, correct? | 00:13:07 | |
With our current code, external which that Adu is an external unit. | 00:13:11 | |
They can't rent the external AU unless their property is twice the minimum lot size in this so that So they can't, even though | 00:13:18 | |
it's attached to their garage that it's not attached to the house at all. The garage isn't attached to the house, right? OK, so | 00:13:25 | |
external Edu's can't be rented unless the lot is twice the minimum lot size in the zone. | 00:13:33 | |
So they would need a. | 00:13:41 | |
16,000 square foot lot to rent an external Edu Ohh. This don't change. Doesn't affect that fact, no. | 00:13:43 | |
So I think that I know that that corner property probably has the most questions on it. | 00:13:51 | |
In the end, the property owner said Ohh. You know, this doesn't really benefit me, but. | 00:13:57 | |
You know, maybe if things move in the future there's. I mean, he could create 2 units in the existing house if he created a | 00:14:01 | |
separation like between a basement and an upstairs, but. | 00:14:07 | |
Not a lot of interest in doing that. | 00:14:14 | |
As is so it creates an opportunity in the future by by rezoning it to R2. But as it stands, he's the lot. Size only qualifies it | 00:14:16 | |
for one. When you say it creates an opportunity in the future, tell me what you mean by that. | 00:14:23 | |
And that would be reliant on picking up additional property. So if he if he could reach an agreement with his neighbors to expand | 00:14:30 | |
the size of his lot, yeah. | 00:14:35 | |
Yes. | 00:14:39 | |
He would need 8000 square feet, a lot size to have an attached. | 00:14:40 | |
Two attached units. | 00:14:45 | |
And we have 10,010 thousand for two detached units. | 00:14:48 | |
8000 for two attached units and those would both be rentable rather than an Adu, right? Situation right? Thank you. | 00:14:52 | |
And I can go into the other two properties. Is there any questions on those or should we run through those as well? | 00:15:01 | |
OK. And the middle property is .41 acres and this one is? | 00:15:08 | |
Most applicable with the unclaimed density that's mentioned in the General Plan at .41 acres in an R110 zone. This property can't | 00:15:15 | |
be subdivided and. | 00:15:20 | |
You can't have any additional units placed on it because it is a single family zone. | 00:15:26 | |
So you have a large property that is limited to just a single family. Use. | 00:15:31 | |
Other than the internal AU. | 00:15:36 | |
Right. | 00:15:39 | |
There can be an Adu, just not a detached Adu, right? And that one, they could have a detached. Well, no, they can't have a |