Live stream not working in Chrome or Edge? Click Here
No Bookmarks Exist.
So if Carrie and Steph's ready to go, I think we'll do a recall to order here if everybody's all set and we will jump in with item 00:00:00
number six. 00:00:05
On our agenda, which is the subdivisions. 00:00:11
Topic Oh my gosh, this looks like fun. Is this carry that's going to be leading this discussion? This one goes to John. All right, 00:00:15
John, you're on the hot plate. Just so excited to talk about subdivision amendments. 00:00:21
So from the legislature hot off the legislators agendas. 00:00:29
This year was a discussion on how to create as many, you know, creating more properties, more homes to make that meet those two 00:00:34
ends of affordability and the having a product that. 00:00:40
Is accessible to municipalities. 00:00:46
One of the hurdles that was brought to the legislature by. 00:00:49
Specific groups was this process by which land is entitled. 00:00:53
Meaning, how fast do subdivisions get through planning commissions? 00:00:59
Specifically. 00:01:05
Looking at all the municipalities across the counties and in the state. 00:01:07
He was discovering that many processes are similar to ours. 00:01:11
Others only have one hearing. You know there were. 00:01:15
Types of processes and how many public hearings are. 00:01:19
And the development community was saying it's confusing. 00:01:23
Ess. 00:01:27
So this the state's mandate was to standardize. 00:01:28
So we have until February 1st to standardize our subdivision process. 00:01:32
Spec. 00:01:39
Moving away from a three-step process, which you're. 00:01:41
Concept of preliminary and a final. 00:01:44
You will no longer have a concept review. 00:01:49
That concept review will be to be a staff level or will roll into some of those elements into the preliminary level. 00:01:52
And some of the real technical items. 00:02:00
That are in the preliminary level of review will roll into a final review which is only available for staff. 00:02:03
That's the second part of this amendment. 00:02:09
Second part meaning. 00:02:12
Only this municipality has only three or four opportunities of review for a final plat. 00:02:15
4 rounds of back and forth with their engineering firm. 00:02:22
In order to get a preliminary final construction set which includes grading storm water retention utility. 00:02:25
Installation. 00:02:33
The nitty gritty that maybe the Planning Commission does not necessarily. 00:02:34
Interested in as far as a land use? 00:02:38
The engineering side and Public Works is interested. The utility companies are interested. 00:02:42
So the state is saying allow the applicant to have that conversation with staff. 00:02:48
At a reasonable rate, with four maximum reviews. 00:02:53
So no concept review that some of those elements will be rolled into a preliminary meeting, one meeting with the Planning 00:02:58
Commission, one hearing. 00:03:02
And that's where the entitlement happens. So after that preliminary review you'll be seeing. 00:03:08
Utility connections, but maybe not the details of the depths of where those pipes are grading. 00:03:14
The lot sizes, utility connection letters? Basically, can those two lots be serviced by? 00:03:20
Life safety, those types of elements making sure it meets the ordinance. 00:03:27
Having your hearing, see if there's any. 00:03:31
Situations and that needs to be addressed in the public. 00:03:34
And then it rolls into. 00:03:38
At staff only. 00:03:40
And so that's that, that's the the third element. 00:03:43
The 4th one is something that is kind of new to at least to holiday is an appeal process. 00:03:47
If after four reviews from a municipality. 00:03:56
The city and the applicant can agree on what is, whatever the element might be, a storm water retention facility type. 00:04:00
They have the ability to appeal that decision to a specific body. 00:04:08
That is made-up by professionals in the field. 00:04:13
And it goes from there. 00:04:18
Highly likely the city of holiday maintenance will never get to that point, but from the larger cities and huge subdivisions that 00:04:21
are plotting 80 to 100 lots, it could be a feasible scenario. But we need to establish the process anyway. 00:04:28
So that's in that ordinance amendment in a nutshell. 00:04:36
The state of Utah is funding various. 00:04:41
To allow municipalities to be counseled on this type of amendment to make sure. 00:04:46
Just like our moderate income housing plan, it has to meet a certain standard and it has to be basically approved. 00:04:53
Luckily, our legal counsel is on that list, so we're going to be getting some free counsel from at least them. So that's why we're 00:04:59
waiting. 00:05:05
Before we get into draft what that amendment and what that actually looks like so that we can have it reviewed. 00:05:11
For compliance with the state law. 00:05:16
And I think in your packet I included what that state law language. 00:05:19
It's a red line. It's a Senate bill. 174 is very huge, but there's just an excerpt that we've taken out that deals with 00:05:23
subdivisions. 00:05:28
So basically, yeah, I don't blame you. 00:05:34
We'll be matching that as much as we possibly can word. 00:05:37
But what it means is our ordinance will be. 00:05:41
Affected greatly. You can see that there's four chapters or 4 sections. 00:05:47
In the title where Subdivision process? 00:05:51
Is addressed, so a good thing it'll be truncated the process, it'll be easier to understand for the applicant. 00:05:54
And you won't be having these long drawn out meetings for subdivisions. 00:06:03
Just to just to verify compliance. 00:06:09
So all around I think it's a decent amendment that we are required to make. 00:06:12
And as we get further into it, I think it'll make me become more. 00:06:18
So will we. 00:06:23
We have a clear understanding of like what's I mean it sounds like it's going to be fairly large and its impact for. 00:06:25
The pre work we have to do to study for approval or you know discussion on some of these things. 00:06:33
And obviously we, I can't speak for the Commission, but I mean, I trust that you're going to go in and rewrite it exactly to what 00:06:40
the state says and do it in the most sensible way possible. But are we going to have some kind of recursive training of like, OK, 00:06:45
here's what you're actually going to do and this is what's everything that's changed now and here's the things you need to look 00:06:50
at. 00:06:54
Yeah, we'll definitely review it. And then we have the process, because the process has to be written and that'll be your. 00:07:00
Chapter 8. So your process is written in there very clearly when you're supposed to hold a hearing. 00:07:06
When the applicant has the responsibility to respond to the staff's comments. 00:07:12
It's pretty black and white in that section, so when we go through that. 00:07:17
Hopefully it'll be it'll be clear as to what your responsibilities will be. 00:07:20
The hope, but at that point you'll just see now that we have a public hearing at the preliminary level. 00:07:25
The list of items that we're going to see will be sort of a combination of preliminary and concept. 00:07:31
But maybe not so much the technical side. 00:07:37
And you can leave the technical sides to our engineering department or public. 00:07:40
To have them go back and forth with the engineering side. 00:07:44
To get a drawing that is acceptable to the city. 00:07:49
And. 00:07:54
I always mess up the order. I'm sorry. Is the the concept where the the tree review is or is that in the final? 00:07:56
That will be preliminary. That'll be a preliminary. Thank you. So it's a good thing we're combining because I mess them up. 00:08:03
Anyway, this concept right now is really, does it comply with the zone? Do you have lot sizes that are right and can those? 00:08:09
Or more lots be serviced by utilities. 00:08:15
And then parking is going to be somewhere in there as well still or if it's like a multi family project or multi use project, yes 00:08:19
parking will be in there because that's that's his own compliance issue. 00:08:25
And I forgot there's another element that. 00:08:33
That is going to be a policy question that I think that our Council is going to have to make a final decision on. 00:08:38
One that you can recommend to them. 00:08:45
Is that and this occurred several years ago, we just haven't adopted it yet. 00:08:47
One and two lot subdivisions are not required to go to your land use. 00:08:53
One in two lot subdivisions can be done administratively. 00:08:57
By. 00:09:01
It's always been the policy by holiday City Council to review those about the land use authority in this body. 00:09:03
So we are going to bring that to the Planning Commission and then also City Council, see what they think about. 00:09:10
Leaving 2 lot subdivisions. 00:09:17
Just to staff as a staff review and. 00:09:19
Anything more than that, 2-3 lots. 00:09:23
A multifamily condos multi multi use projects will obviously go to the land use authority. 00:09:26
But those two lot subdivisions? 00:09:34
Most cities don't take to their Planning Commission. 00:09:36
And are those noticed? 00:09:40
Yeah, they'll follow a different notice. So what will happen is the the site will be posted. 00:09:43
And then they'll have, we'll take a 10 day comment period. If there's anything that's really abnormal shows up, then we'll bring 00:09:48
it to the Planning Commission for review. 00:09:53
Otherwise, after that 10 day, we'll just follow through with our own preliminary concept and final platinum process. 00:09:58
But it won't be in this venue, it'll just be at administrative level. 00:10:04
And. 00:10:09
Will there when it's noticed, whether it's still a budding properties and neighbors will be noticed up to 500 feet or whatever, 00:10:11
right? 00:10:14
Yeah, that's another element that I'm pretty sure that their council would like to preserve is the is the noticing and hearing. 00:10:20
But instead of it actually being a hearing where people come say I don't want it in my backyard, it'll just be send your comments 00:10:28
to staff and they'll say thanks, send it to Kerry and beat her up and find out what exactly needs to if it if it's actually a 00:10:34
substantive comment that needs to be addressed by the Planning Commission rather than staff in in in an open meeting. 00:10:40
Not in my department behind you know, closed doors, so to speak. 00:10:47
Other questions? 00:10:56
Mr. Tierlink. 00:10:58
Upcoming changes We're all excited to learn new. 00:11:00
It's just getting figured out, right? 00:11:03
Too. 00:11:07
Well, as long as you guys guide us through the process, I'm sure it'll be great. Well, we're learning with. 00:11:09
So we'll figure it out. We'll just remember to have meetings when we're supposed to have meetings. You can just kick the chair on 00:11:14
that one. 00:11:17
All right. Well then with that any, if there's no other questions on that, then we'll look forward to the proposed changes coming 00:11:20
to a meeting to you soon and move on to. 00:11:25
OK, so item number 7, Ordinance discussion about home occupations. Conditional use permits that are involved with home 00:11:33
occupations. 00:11:38
Business licensing, parking, kind of everything that is within the purview of or involved with a home occupation. So Speaking of 00:11:43
fewer meetings. 00:11:48
The proposal is to take the conditional use that's associated with a home occupation and create a set list of conditions that are 00:11:54
applied to all home occupation permits. 00:12:01
In our review process, as you've seen with. 00:12:10
Home occupations that that you have reviewed, it's typically very similar conditions. 00:12:12
Imposed by, you know, specifics of parking has to all be on the site. 00:12:20
Limited hours. If there's groups, you know what? How does drop off and pick up? How is that managed? So it's including those and 00:12:26
making sure those are included within the list of conditions. 00:12:32
And you can be as specific or more general as you want, imposing those. 00:12:39
And or allowing staff to impose conditions that are specifically relevant to the application. 00:12:46
Some of those are outlined in the table that is in the staff report. 00:12:55
So going through those, some of the changes are more minor housekeeping items, changing the table of allowed uses. 00:13:01
Home occupation changing approval by the Planning Commission to approval of by staff with conditions. 00:13:12
Umm. 00:13:18
Putting. 00:13:20
You could consider separating out the impact of home occupations. So daycares, preschools, group lessons might be a higher impact 00:13:23
because of the amount of of people coming to the site. So you could put a limitation or you know define low versus high impact, 00:13:30
what is high impact, what is low impact? That's something that we could look into if that is something that the Planning 00:13:37
Commission would like to see and some proposed text. 00:13:45
The another issue that. 00:13:55
That we were looking at is with the involvement of accessory buildings or yard space. Our current code does not allow the use of 00:13:59
yard space or accessory buildings. 00:14:05
The production of things can occur in those, but the actual conducting of the business has to occur within the primary dwelling. 00:14:10
As we looked at this, it was you know, if somebody has created an accessory building or want to use part of a detached garage, or 00:14:19
build a detached structure that is just for their office purposes. 00:14:26
Being able to allow that within specific conditions. 00:14:35
So that is a consideration that that you can discuss. 00:14:38
Parking. 00:14:42
Currently our code refers to our off stripe or on site parking requirements which requires 2 for business use based off of any 00:14:44
businesses. The same standard for home occupations and the same standard for any business use within commercial zones I. 00:14:54
Professional office zones. 00:15:06
A proposed change on that would be to allow the use of 1 off or one street parking space directly abutting the the residents. 00:15:09
That suggestion came from a review of looking at. 00:15:20
Liberties. 00:15:27
They had some proposed code. 00:15:29
Suggesting that you could evolve. 00:15:31
And the link between that is a normal residential use, so residential uses typically you'd see on street parking allowed. 00:15:35
Or guests would have on street parking, so allowing your home occupation to involve one on street parking space. 00:15:44
So that would be a consideration that you could look. 00:15:52
Other than that, your specific condition could be that all parking associated with the business. 00:15:56
Involves. 00:16:01
The property itself. 00:16:03
And that one street or or it could just be all managed on site. So taking out the required two and just saying it's all managed 00:16:05
within the property. Carrie, I'm curious. 00:16:10
With the like for example, the parking changes, right? 00:16:17
Would there be consideration given to the different master plans? For example, I could see. 00:16:22
Saying allowing street parking in the Village would be a much bigger deal than allowing street parking in an R110 in the North 40 00:16:29
of Holiday where you know people are parked on the street. 00:16:35
Anyway, you know what I mean, Yeah. 00:16:41
And that could be a zone consideration. 00:16:46
If you wanted. 00:16:49
And I don't know, John, maybe you'd have a suggestion on how that could be addressed or if that would be. 00:16:51
A good consideration to include differe. 00:17:00
Working requirements based off of the zone, sure. So for example, you can definitely have a percentage of what's allowed the off 00:17:03
street or on street parking or off site. 00:17:08
In the village you have, we have I think a minimum of 10% of your minimum required can be. 00:17:15
Used as the yarn St. stalls that are in front. 00:17:21
It's very difficult for a municipality to defend the fact. 00:17:25
If you have a home based. 00:17:29
You those clients can't use a public St. to park in front of their house, whereas. 00:17:32
Other guests could. 00:17:37
I think we want to make sure we put the city in a good position to not to be defensible. 00:17:40
On whether or not that requirement is being placed on applicants. 00:17:47
To have the requirement for off street parking. 00:17:51
Whether that's a percentage you can have or a certain time of the day, you know those are the type of scenarios we might be 00:17:55
looking at. If on street parking was an option, that's that's now considered by Planning Commission and City Council. 00:18:01
Come. 00:18:09
Yeah, I have a bit of a concern with the whole idea that many people already have the the parking in front of their houses, their 00:18:10
parking. 00:18:14
And that they have exclusive control of it. And that and practice I've seen in another community where people put cones in their 00:18:19
front of their home so that only people they want to park in their part of the public street can park. 00:18:27
In that and whether or not if you allow say one of the two parking spaces to be an off St. and yours is already full does that now 00:18:36
your neighbor you can park in front of the neighbors house and then they come out and say no I got a party to say and you know I 00:18:42
mean. 00:18:48
I think it's a dangerous thing to start down this idea that the public owns. 00:18:54
In any way, whether it's for Hallmark or guests or whatever the parking in front of their house, it's just street parking. 00:18:59
And then but you know I I think it's worthy of the discussion and and looking at it but I you know I'm I'm a little concerned that 00:19:08
that reinforces the idea that the parking in front of your house is your control, absolute control of of that. 00:19:16
And you could I mean it. 00:19:26
An option would be to just not detail any of the not restricting on street parking at all if there's street parking available, 00:19:28
people who are coming to the house for business purposes as long as it's a low impact. So if you're looking at dividing low and 00:19:36
high impact, maybe all of low impact is. 00:19:43
You know you can park on site. You have to. 00:19:51
Parking provided on site. 00:19:54
If there is some street parking, it would be one car at a time. 00:19:56
So something like that that restricts some degree of parking, but isn't so specific about it's the one spot in front of your 00:20:00
house. 00:20:05
And for your code enforcement people, this becomes a very problematic thing about you know, OK, how do you prove which purpose 00:20:11
that car is there? 00:20:16
You. 00:20:21
It's real easy when you see the cello getting pulled out of the back of it. 00:20:22
You have. 00:20:27
You know this is not a public hearing, so but and that related to that, I did have a thought because of what happened earlier and 00:20:31
that I do think we need to think about if the home walk is in a apartment complex which is different than a condominium, which is 00:20:40
different than a residential community. 00:20:48
And they have single homes, and there may be unique things for each of those. 00:20:58
And one would be an interesting legal question about, you know, if it runs with the land OK and it comes in an apartment. 00:21:04
And we don't have the owner of the apartment asking for. 00:21:11
We have a. 00:21:15
A renter? 00:21:17
In that condominium, obviously different how you got an owner. 00:21:18
But unit 229 if I remember the number you 2229. So I want to move into a complex. 00:21:22
And I don't want to go through a process, so I buy 229 because it already has. I just think that those, at least those three kinds 00:21:29
of housing have some very unique. 00:21:35
Considerations independent of HOA rules and all that. Mm-hmm. And that, that. 00:21:41
Are worthy at looking at as we we review this there there is. That's a good point and I I think it'll require some work to figure 00:21:48
out what the right solution is given. 00:21:53
These different communities, but one way you can get at. 00:21:59
Is to tie with the home occupation business. 00:22:03
That runs with the land business license requirement. That doesn't run with the land. 00:22:08
And if the business license ceases to exist at the location, then. 00:22:14
Permitted. 00:22:19
Or conditional use ceases to exist at the location that would be good and they they're kind of tied together. 00:22:21
And then similarly the business license gives you the right to. 00:22:28
The property from time to time when they go for a renewal. 00:22:33
So for those difficult, code enforcement matters where you're limited because you cannot enter a home. 00:22:36
Look at traffic counts or do those kinds of things. It gives you a. 00:22:44
To go in and inspect. 00:22:48
I know we're not talking about ad use, but if you had. 00:22:49
Adus or things like that, you know, that's a good tool that can help you get at some of those issues. 00:22:53
Yeah. 00:23:00
And do you envision if it becomes an administrative process through staff, there would still be public notice? 00:23:01
Because. 00:23:11
One of the things I've noticed and this this woman tonight was a good example. 00:23:12
We don't know enough about the situation that the neighbors know lots of things. 00:23:17
Some of which are true and some of which aren't, but at least at least. 00:23:22
You know, tell us what is something that should be subject. 00:23:28
Or may be subject to a conditional use. 00:23:31
And we keep calling it a conditional use, but if there's no public input, it's. 00:23:35
Unless, you know, we figure out ferret it out on our own, which really isn't our job. 00:23:40
You know and that. So I as we go through this, if it becomes administrative process, would there still be a noticing requirement? 00:23:44
I think there is a value to that. 00:23:49
Yeah. And the, I mean the purpose of a conditional use is to mitigate impact on surrounding properties. So it's to look at what 00:23:55
that impact is. Some of those impacts may not be immediately foreseeable and that I guess that's a question that for a legal 00:24:01
counsel could. 00:24:07
Noticing be a requirement still without having a public hearing. 00:24:14
Where you just take comments. 00:24:19
The way that we want to take address this is finding. 00:24:22
Home occupation uses that have been routine and uncontested in the past. 00:24:27
Because those standards have pretty much been standardized. 00:24:31
As years have passed and applications keeps coming on and all the same conditions get applied to. 00:24:35
You know the weird circumstances, the odd ducks, so to speak, that would come to the Planning Commission would would be noticed. 00:24:41
Like, for example, a home occupation in a condo complex. 00:24:49
Or some odd. 00:24:53
Home occupation or business that's being run out of a home that we've never seen before, Those are not routine and they could 00:24:55
possibly be contested as well. So those, those definitely would have a hearing applied to them. 00:25:01
For sure. 00:25:08
But for those others that are. 00:25:09
Music lessons? 00:25:12
You know the the home based therapist. 00:25:14
We know what those conditions have been applied or in the past we can pretty much standardize. 00:25:18
As long as they comply with those standards themselves. 00:25:23
Great. They can get their business license and go. 00:25:27
If they can't, then they can bring, come bring it to the Planning Commission with a hearing and find out what those those issues 00:25:30
are. 00:25:32
But you're absolutely right. You know, the hearing process is critical for that fact finding. 00:25:36
So it's just to kind of summarize. So really what you're looking for is like take the ones that pretty much no one can test that 00:25:44
we approve all the time and we ask a couple questions about parking and just say city staff can handle those from now on. We don't 00:25:50
need to go through all the rings of fire for planning and everybody else for these applicants. 00:25:57
And in. 00:26:03
And what and in which zone you're comfortable with? Yeah. 00:26:05
Makes. 00:26:10
Any other questions? 00:26:14
Lessening our workload. 00:26:17
Let's go ahead and move on to the next one. 00:26:24
Don't. 00:26:30
And then I guess on that note too with these discussions, if you have any points that you would like staff to go the direction and 00:26:32
so those items of discussion. 00:26:37
Where What kind of drafted text would you like to see? 00:26:43
So just a. 00:26:48
In this case, how specific or more general? 00:26:50
Are you talking about in regards to? 00:26:55
Just how much? 00:26:58
Approves on them like or if there's any specific conditions that you want to have included. 00:27:00
I mean I think the on site parking is relevant. 00:27:06
In a lot of cases, I mean, especially after tonight's discussion, I think we kind of went through that, right? 00:27:10
I. 00:27:18
Depending on your number of clients and you know those type of situations on sites not. 00:27:19
Unreasonable request. 00:27:26
So I think that's still something that needs to be considered because like. 00:27:29
In a lot of cases, like am I worried about someone with cello lessons, right? Parking on the street and dropping their kid off to 00:27:35
cello? 00:27:38
Not really. 00:27:42
But what happens when it's a giant moving van that's parking on the street as part of some business? Because that's what they 00:27:43
drive and now all of a sudden it's a problem. You know what I mean? 00:27:50
Landscape Trailer every night. 00:28:00
Yeah. 00:28:03
Those type of things I think is where you start to get kind of a rye on that. Yeah. Some of those more specific things with larger 00:28:05
vehicles are naturally restricted in our code where you can't have vehicles larger than. 00:28:12
110 John Hart for longer than an hour. 00:28:19
I like this idea of. 00:28:27
Having low impact versus high impact. 00:28:29
Sort of. 00:28:33
Looking at the correlation between what the impact is and. 00:28:36
How? How dense or or what zone it's in because? 00:28:40
I mean to me it doesn't make a lot of sense if you are only going to have one person to your home based business at a time. To 00:28:45
require 2 on site parkings like that, that doesn't make sense and that's. 00:28:50
Restricting a lot of people who should not be restricted I think in having their business. So I'm I'm in favor of making the 00:28:55
parking more flexible sort of as as this is. 00:29:01
Suggesting here lowering it for in circumstances where it makes sense to have a lower minimum. 00:29:07
And then in places where it's more dense, we still want people to be able to have businesses even if they live in a condo, so. 00:29:16
Umm. 00:29:25
You know, figuring, figuring that out, how how are we going to let them do that? I think that's reasonable. 00:29:27
We have a lot of parking lots. 00:29:33
I think we should. 00:29:37
Use. 00:29:39
You know and. 00:29:41
Be as restricted as we have. So I think that combination. 00:29:43
Is good thinking about impact and. 00:29:48
With the parking, the prohibited uses, can you just talk about that one again it looks like. 00:29:50
Don't have prohibited uses. 00:29:58
And this is making suggestions about things that. 00:30:02
May not want people to do in their home based businesses. Is that is that a correct reading of that right? 00:30:05
So. 00:30:11
There were a couple of cities that call out specific uses in that home occupation section of uses that are expressly not allowed. 00:30:13
So example. 00:30:18
Salons with multiple employees. So if you have like 2 salon people, so then they're seeing multiple clients at a time. 00:30:25
Kennels, commercial stables. These are pretty. 00:30:33
Or just much larger impact? 00:30:36
Home occupations that could occur. 00:30:39
You could include these or any other specifics that that you could see as potentially being an issue or we could incorporate just 00:30:42
a general provision that any uses outside of a normal customary use would require review by Planning Commission. 00:30:51
Just in the short time I've been on the Commission, we've seen. 00:31:04
Instances. 00:31:09
Neighbors tend to bleed before they're cut. 00:31:11
You know, we get a lot of complaints from people who anticipate problems before there's even. 00:31:16
Any action. 00:31:24
And. 00:31:26
I think we have to be sensitive to that and. 00:31:27
We can't head everything off at the pass. I think we just have to. 00:31:31
Understand that people don't like change. 00:31:36
And to Angela's point, we want to be welcoming and friendly to business. 00:31:40
I I like your description of the. 00:31:46
Us. 00:31:49
That would fall outside of. 00:31:52
Types of activities would have to be reviewed, however it was you said that that sounded a reasonable way to try and split the. 00:31:55
You know, split the difference between. 00:32:03
Prescribing everything that is allowed and everything that's not allowed. 00:32:05
In a more workable way. 00:32:10
It would not be appropriate for me to make the policy judgment. 00:32:13
Is for you all. 00:32:17
But there are certain categories of uses that are just dangerous if they're in a home environment. 00:32:19
And I would encourage you to look at the list that they put together. The firearms 1 catches my eye, that's for sure. And. 00:32:27
Issues you'll get into are dry cleaning businesses that use in store chemicals, firearms. You know, there are certain categories 00:32:36
of things where I think you pretty easily can say we never want this to occur. 00:32:42
There's a middle category of things where. 00:32:48
Maybe you'll want to see it and apply some jud. 00:32:51
But I. 00:32:55
There are some things where you will want to list, otherwise it becomes difficult to defend it when when you deny that use or that 00:32:57
application. 00:33:01
Sample that kind of comes to mind might be. 00:33:06
Somebody that's running a paint and Body Shop out of their two car detached a garage and they have air compressors and grinders 00:33:09
and right. The smell of paints in in you know introduced to the neighborhood, you know. 00:33:16
Or the like the firearms or. Or the firearms. Grenades. Yeah. In the basement. Never go off. Yeah, yeah. 00:33:24
Archery centers. 00:33:32
As far as like allowing on street parking, if it were to go that way with certain uses, 1 consideration I would want to see in 00:33:35
there would be the number of. 00:33:41
Allowed conditional uses on a street or adjacent in a certain neighborhood. 00:33:47
Because, for example, I live on a street that has 15 houses of 10 of my neighbors decided they all wanted a conditional use permit 00:33:52
to do cello lessons. 00:33:56
I would be very. 00:34:00
Coming down my street at the hours of drop off and pick up of all my neighbors doing it at once. 00:34:02
I'm on a street right now where I know they don't have conditional use permits, but there's three home based businesses. 00:34:10
All within. 00:34:17
Less than an eighth of a mile of my home. 00:34:18
And when they're having their parties every Friday night. 00:34:21
It's so crazy you can't even get one car down the drive or down the street, let alone pass the car. 00:34:26
And that becomes a safety issue. It becomes, you know, an issue where if we're allowing every home on a street to have a home 00:34:33
based business and on street parking. 00:34:38
I didn't purchase my home to live in a business district, right? Yeah, And that's one of the elements that's already currently 00:34:43
written in ordinance. 00:34:48
You can. 00:34:54
Or exert your authority to deny a conditional use permit if there is. 00:34:56
And I don't know exactly what the language is. Something like an unusual concentration? 00:35:01
Of those types of uses within and, it gives a. 00:35:06
I've never really ran into that before. 00:35:11
But yes, that type of that notion is in there is in the court already, OK. 00:35:14
Just looking into the crystal ball, I'm sure there's not 12 piano teachers on one street right now, but you never know. The only 00:35:19
situation where I've run into that being an issue is where you have home based business applications. 00:35:25
Residences that are near schools. 00:35:32
If the drop off and pick up time for the home based business is the same as the school, then you get the crush all at once. 00:35:35
Those. 00:35:43
I don't know what you call them in your code, but the accumulation of impacts all at the same time becomes an issue. 00:35:45
Yeah. 00:35:52
And we most likely hear about that from neighbors who know the schedule. Remember the one we had with? 00:35:53
Hairdresser and they wanted to keep the. 00:36:02
Not have them open. Wireless alleyway was being used for the school. 00:36:05
Which was, you know, the school is now closed. So you know, we and we knew that and they they probably should have known that too. 00:36:09
But. 00:36:13
You only hear about those things from the immediate neighbors who know the flow of the neighborhood. 00:36:19
A consideration on that too with it is one of the bullet points. So parking that exceeds the parking that is available on the. 00:36:25
Possibly involving that one extra street parking in front of the house or one street parking space in general. So putting a 00:36:34
limitation on how often that type of exceedance can occur so it can't exceed more than two times in a month or more than two times 00:36:41
in a 30 day period, whatever that. 00:36:48
What would be reasonable? 00:36:56
For exceedance. 00:36:59
I feel like that might be a challenge for code enforcement, though, right? Like you'd have to have a neighbor. That's like 00:37:03
recording the comings and goings, basically. Yeah, And a lot of, a lot of the. 00:37:07
Conditional use issues, when it does come to code enforcement and what it creates an issue is then when Planning Commission would 00:37:14
look at it or the Community and Economic Development Director would look at it and say OK we need to evaluate your conditions 00:37:19
here. I I do think it is reasonable to say something like. 00:37:25
Yes, it may happen once or twice a month, but more than that is could be considered an unreasonable. 00:37:31
Imposition on the neighbors. 00:37:39
We may not hit the right number right off the bat, but if you don't pick a number. 00:37:43
How? 00:37:49
See if it's the right number or not right. 00:37:50
So creating a standard. 00:37:53
Clear. We communicated. 00:37:56
Mr. Barrett. 00:38:03
Any any thoughts? You're awfully quiet down there, yeah. 00:38:04
Taking it all in, I think it's a good idea to do this type of code. Give staff some authority on these things where the Commission 00:38:08
I, you know, where the law already sets out the standards and if they can meet that, that that should be them. Go ahead and get 00:38:13
started. 00:38:18
I My biggest concern here is how we define what neighborhood traffic is anymore, because I think wasn't the. 00:38:24
Standard 10 vehicle trips per day per residence. 00:38:33
So, but there used to be a or there is a standard for how many vehicles can come to your house. 00:38:39
And beyond that is an increase in neighborhood traffic. Well, I know now that I have several 100. 00:38:45
You know, FedEx trucks, UPS trucks that are going down, that are changing by that dynamic of neighborhood traffic. 00:38:55
I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this point, but I'm just I'm concerned about the traffic and the parking. 00:39:03
I don't want to create a law or rules that we can't have some logical. 00:39:11
Effective enforcement. 00:39:16
You know, and so the clearer we can make this, the better I. 00:39:20
I wish I had a better suggestion than that, but I appreciate what the other Commissioners have said because I think that's on 00:39:25
point. 00:39:29
I know that businesses are going to become more sophisticated in the future because. 00:39:34
It's becoming more logical for people to stay at home and do their business and how that all factors, so we may have to have. 00:39:39
An ordinance that can be modified quickly to meet those kind of demands or? 00:39:48
Expect. 00:39:54
Good discussion. Any other? 00:39:59
Thoughts or points around the conditional use text amendment. 00:40:02
Moving right along. 00:40:08
Accessory Dwelling. 00:40:11
Last item. OK, so. 00:40:12
You'll remember our Rezone application that involved an accessory dwelling unit. It wasn't. 00:40:17
It was underneath a detached garage. It was on a lot that was less than 8000 square feet after the public dedication. 00:40:25
Label typically as a bonus room. That might be something that you'd see as, oh, we have a shed that's converted to an office space 00:40:35
or shed that's converted to some sort of. 00:40:41
Neighbor or some sort of alternate use. That's that somebody may want to convert to a accessory dwelling unit. So taking that shed 00:40:48
or some space into. 00:40:53
Making it a habitable space. 00:40:59
So City Council did not approve that rezone, but directed staff to look at our Adu ordinance, and specifically. 00:41:03
Allowing the conversion of existing accessory buildings. So if you have a detached garage or if you have a shed. 00:41:13
What kind of a code? 00:41:23
Change would then allow somebody to convert that accessory dwelling or accessory building into a dwelling unit. 00:41:26
So right now our code does not allow external dwelling units on lots that are less than half an acre or that are twice the the 00:41:34
minimum lot size. 00:41:39
John, is it that they can't rent that so they could still create? 00:41:47
Some sort of habitable space in an accessory unit, but they couldn't rent it. 00:41:52
OK. 00:41:58
With the current code. 00:42:00
OK. And I think the way that we proceed is written is that. 00:42:04
To the. 00:42:09
To be used. 00:42:13
Accessory standards. 00:42:18
So I could turn. 00:42:25
Would there be restrictions on how many? Like for example if I had a shed and a greenhouse in my backyard which I do, could I make 00:42:27
2 accessory dwelling units? No our code limits and accessory dwelling unit. You can only have one on the property so that could be 00:42:33
interior or or an external. 00:42:39
So in this particular case, were they looking for a way to let this person have what they've denied him, we denied him? 00:42:48
Or they really think that they want to open up the whole city. 00:42:56
It's a larger they looked at. 00:43:01
As a way. 00:43:06
Address some of our moderate income housing goals, one of those being remove restrictions around accessory dwelling units. 00:43:10
So looking at what our current code is, how restrictive is it? What changes could be made to that to meet that moderate income 00:43:18
housing goal? 00:43:22
And thus allow the creation of more accessory dwelling units. 00:43:27
And I'm in. 00:43:31
Increasing the ability to have moderate but what we tend to approve. 00:43:34
Taking 2000 square foot guest houses and make them into 5000 square foot, which doesn't help the moderate. 00:43:39
You know, it's almost like. 00:43:48
The people with the money to build these huge things. 00:43:50
Where? 00:43:54
The the changes to allow moderate. 00:43:57
Housing. 00:44:01
The goal isn't being met. 00:44:04
True, it's being met. It's being met by taking big places on expensive properties and creating a house that's not moderately 00:44:07
priced. 00:44:11
Those that you that you see that go through that process are pretty small subset to what Kerry reviews and approves at the counter 00:44:16
for accessory buildings. 00:44:21
That's why they're coming to you is because they're they're abnormality. 00:44:25
In the area there might be conditions that have to be applied to that large of a structure. 00:44:29
Umm. 00:44:35
It's. 00:44:36
I would say maybe one or two a year. 00:44:37
Maybe 3 come to the Planning Commission but opposed to maybe. 00:44:39
15 or so a year accessory dwelling units. 00:44:43
Reviewed. 00:44:47
Another thing we commonly see is just people who would like to build a detached garage and maybe add a unit above it or you know, 00:44:48
off the back of it. So there are people who are wanting to build accessory dwelling units that are detached and separate from the 00:44:55
house. I'm usually associated with a detached garage some. 00:45:02
There is. 00:45:10
There's a lot more movement in the building community to have modular homes. So you'll see like modular units that are one or two 00:45:12
bedrooms that can just be placed on a house. They're designed to be less expensive to construct, less expensive to put in place. 00:45:19
More approachable for for homeowners, especially owners who own smaller properties that maybe want something a little bit smaller. 00:45:26
Is there a minimum size that these would have to be like? I mean, for example, could I take my 20 by 10 greenhouse space and say 00:45:34
it's a tiny home? 00:45:39
You could. There's an accessory. Buildings have a set footprint size. 00:45:45
Minimum size is 200 square feet. 00:45:53
That's I think that. 00:45:56
Yeah, yeah. External dwelling units, there's a minimum size of 200 square feet. I mean, there's barely room for a toilet in that, 00:45:58
but yeah. 00:46:02
Can I ask you a question about the? 00:46:07
The Is there a difference with setbacks and separation from the main structure between accessory buildings and Adus? There is our 00:46:09
code. 00:46:14
States that you have to have a 25% increase in your set back distance if it involves A dwelling unit. 00:46:21
Less. 00:46:30
And that's where you run into some conflict with existing accessory structures. So existing accessory structures are built to 1 00:46:32
standard. 00:46:36
And converting that to a dwelling unit has a different standard. 00:46:42
So the the standard that it was built under would apply. So you're going to end up with some. 00:46:47
Accessory structures that are converted that have the setbacks required for an accessory building, but not the setbacks that would 00:46:54
be required for a new structure or a new dwelling unit. OK And is there a maximum size that the Adu can be? 00:47:02
In comparison to the primary. 00:47:13
So our code has accessory buildings, limited footprint, size, that's the accessory, but not Adus. We don't have, are they the 00:47:18
same? OK, OK. 00:47:23
So that would limit the size of your 5000 square foot. 00:47:29
In most cases, I guess right we do have you can't apply for a conditional use permit. Is that just on guest houses, John? Or is 00:47:34
it? 00:47:38
So you can apply for a conditional use permit for any accessory building that you're proposing to be over the permitted size. 00:47:45
So that would be like the RV garage that they wanted to add on. It was over the larger or over the footprint size? 00:47:53
Add. 00:48:01
So this would be a concern I guess in in looking forward to if this were something that were to happen, but. 00:48:02
If I have a garage right, and it's at the far corner of my backyard, right long driveway, we've seen these old pioneer style 00:48:10
houses down and you know Garfield 13 S area. 00:48:16
But if I decide I want to build an apartment above that garage and call it and you know, a dwelling unit like is there still going 00:48:24
to be restrictions on height and things like that or am I like building this tower that's going to look down on all the neighbors 00:48:31
backyards from that point forward? Exactly. So our building permit process, you do have a graduated height requirement. 00:48:38
So that's created by going 8 feet up and then a 45 degree angle over. 00:48:45
Most structures that are 20 feet or less, just depending on how close they are to the property line if you want. 00:48:51
Our accessory structures are limited to 20 feet in height. 00:48:59
If you're 20, if you're 3 feet off the property line, you may have to come back further away to meet your graduated high 00:49:04
requirements, just depending on how that. 00:49:09
Building is constructed so they could build the tower, but they'd have to build it further into the yard. 00:49:15
So are you looking? 00:49:22
Our comments on the proposed changes that we eliminate. 00:49:24
Twice the size and also at least 1/2 acre, so that yes that is one option so. 00:49:29
Kind of a series of options you could. 00:49:37
You could limit it to just saying code change to. 00:49:41
Allowing the conversion of existing structures that are on lots that are smaller than half an acre or lots that don't meet that 00:49:45
twice the minimum. 00:49:51
Lot size required in. 00:49:57
So that's one option. 00:49:59
If you wanted to. 00:50:01
Eliminates. 00:50:04
The half acre minimum lot size or twice the both of those requirements and allow external dwelling units to be built on lots 00:50:09
smaller than. 00:50:15
Than half an acre, that would be another option. 00:50:21
Can I ask a question on that as far as the history? Are you seeing a lot of requests? 00:50:26
That are bumping up into this twice the size and half acre minimum. 00:50:31
Or I the I mean, does it really hurt if we just eliminate that language and? 00:50:37
If they can fit the building in the property based on the setbacks, they could do it. 00:50:44
And that's where if you wanted to create some more limitations. 00:50:49
For. 00:50:54
Mitigating impacts of if you're going to have an external dwelling. 00:50:55
Maybe it can't have a door that is on a side property line. The door would have to be inside the property. 00:50:59
Another common thing is Windows facing. You know or. 00:51:08
Having to have landscaping or fencing that that buffers from neighboring properties, or requiring larger setback distances so you 00:51:14
could. 00:51:20
Set back your accessory dwelling. 00:51:25
Further from the property lines. 00:51:28
There's some cities that require external dwelling units to be within the setbacks required for a primary structure. 00:51:31
So that could be an option as well. 00:51:40
If you wanted to bring anything that's an accessory dwelling unit external into those. 00:51:43
Required setbacks for a. 00:51:48
I. 00:51:51
For me personally, I would prefer it be the existing conversion rather than the let's let loose and everybody on the street builds 00:51:52
a guest house in the backyard and an R110 where the lots are 8000 square feet. 00:52:00
I could see a whole bunch of tiny homes crowding out real fast, and there's your moderate income. But at the same time, at what 00:52:07
cost do you do that right? Well, whatever is most respectful for the existing residents, right? You know, whatever is most 00:52:13
respectful for the neighbors. 00:52:20
I think I agree with that. 00:52:26
We saw. 00:52:29
In cases where they had an existing and newer home that had just been built and. 00:52:34
Couldn't call it rented or something. Everything problem. 00:52:39
Because it was on two small smalls, a lot and then two of the neighbors also they wanted it rezoned because those two neighbors 00:52:44
also wanted to build accessory dwelling unit. 00:52:49
That would have been a lot. I mean that. 00:52:57
Tripled, right, the residency in that little area on that little St. with small lots as opposed to if this, what we're talking 00:52:59
about happened then the one would have already been built in there and maybe the other one converts his garage, right? 00:53:07
But it doesn't create new buildings because they were wanting to build new buildings, right? 00:53:17
So and feel much more comfortable in doing that. 00:53:23
So they they can still build buildings and they can still build. 00:53:28
External Dwelling Units. 00:53:35
They just. 00:53:37
Rent them. Is that the distinction? No, they. They. 00:53:39
Did they have more than twice the lot size for those lots? No. That was the issue. They were trying to rezone it because they were 00:53:43
trying to so most of those properties in that area and largely for most R110 zones in the city. 00:53:51
We have neighborhoods which we call super conforming. 00:53:59
They're more than the minimum R110 zone. 00:54:02
So not enough to subdivide but. 00:54:05
Too small to plow. You know that type of situation where they they, they just have these massive backyards they don't know what to 00:54:08
do with? Mm-hmm. So they're kind of stuck. 00:54:12
They're stuck between the can't subdivide it to get an extra lot back there, but they're also not big enough to. 00:54:17
Accessory dwelling you in their backyard. 00:54:23
And that is, that is we are seeing that as a hindrance for most people. 00:54:26
Where they go straight down the street and they have a larger lot, maybe a different zone. 00:54:30
Umm. 00:54:35
And they're able to have that that accessory detached. We're talking about detached attached, absolutely. 00:54:36
You can put an addition on your house, put an attached garage, put it in, you know, an accessory dwelling above it, have at it if 00:54:42
they want to do that, they're they're perfectly within their right to do that, yeah. 00:54:47
It is the city tracking the success of moderate income. 00:54:53
We're making these changes. We say all this stuff and then do you, does the city know how many? 00:54:59
Moderate income based housing units there are in the city. 00:55:05
We have a pretty good idea. 00:55:09
Especially those that are. 00:55:12
And we have to report those numbers every year. So I guess I'm wondering if whatever we propose or whatever, can we attach a 00:55:15
guesstimate as to how much impact that would have if we said we did this. We think you know over the next decade we generate 24 00:55:22
more moderate income housing. 00:55:29
And I think that would be useful to us in doing the analysis because you're right, if we're only seeing the guest houses which are 00:55:37
going to be rent free to a family member. 00:55:43
Um. 00:55:49
That didn't solve any moderate income housing. 00:55:50
And if it went on the rental market, it would be not for moderate income housing. 00:55:53
And I guess the larger discussion here. 00:55:58
By allowing smaller units and maybe not a tiny home, maybe it's you know. 00:56:01
Studio. 00:56:07
Pre built thing that a property owner can reasonably. 00:56:08
Put in their backyard and is that significantly different than adding on to a house? So if you're either locating it. 00:56:12
Further back on the property, so there's more privacy or you're adding it onto your house, it's you're still adding a dwelling 00:56:21
unit. 00:56:26
The location is. Can all the parking be managed on? 00:56:31
Can the impacts of putting? 00:56:35
Unit further back on the property. 00:56:38
Be managed with landscaping requirements. 00:56:41
Location of doorways, windows, other sorts of Can you mitigate impacts by allowing an external structure to be built? 00:56:44
And a more theoretical question is that if. 00:56:54
Significant changes in the. 00:56:58
Does that increase or decrease the value of the housing? 00:57:01
To the existing owners. 00:57:05
Is it, you know, does it increase it? 00:57:08
Dec. 00:57:12
And I guess other opportunities about, you know, with an aging population to how, how can that be managed? You know, you have 00:57:13
people who live in their house that maybe would like to. 00:57:19
Live in a detached structure, so. 00:57:25
If you've aged in your house and you would you say this is too much space, I want to have maybe my kids move into the house and 00:57:29
I'm going to go move into this one bedroom unit that. 00:57:34
More private than an internal unit. 00:57:40
So that's kind of the opportunities that you can create with allowing an external dwelling unit. 00:57:43
With less. 00:57:49
While still mitigating impacts of it. 00:57:51
I guess to Paul's point, though, to say it another word, you want to make sure that there's not a whole bunch of slumlords popping 00:57:55
up. Yeah, I mean, what? What? What? Really? You know, does it change the nature of housing and holiday? 00:58:01
And that. 00:58:08
And that, and if there are four or five of these on my street, is my house value going to go up or down? 00:58:10
Will it go up because someone says, Oh well yeah, you can do an Adu and pay part of your mortgage or that. Or does that make it a 00:58:18
less desirable neighborhood and drive the price down for the rest of the homes? 00:58:25
And you know on the note of ownership as well, when you have an Adu, the you can't have two separate owners. So it's still a 00:58:36
single owner they can rent. 00:58:42
Another person, but the owner would have to live on the site. 00:58:49
That wouldn't change in the code it. 00:58:53
Owner has to live on site in either unit. 00:58:57
But. 00:59:00
So they couldn't have two rentals. Yeah, you wouldn't be able to have two rentals. So you wouldn't rent a house and a tiny house. 00:59:02
So it's still owner controlled? 00:59:09
Can I change the subject for a second? Because there's another issue in here that is troubling me and that's the issue of the 00:59:13
lighting. 00:59:17
And it just looks like you've. 00:59:21
Taken out all of the reference to dark sky compliance and LED lighting and so forth. 00:59:24
Yeah, I think, I think the the current language and the proposed changes it's it wouldn't necessarily be removing everything 00:59:36
that's there. So anything that is there can still remain. 00:59:42
The and especially with lighting, that's something that we could include. 00:59:49
Where it would be external dwelling units that maybe have more of a lighting impact. You definitely want to have dark sky 00:59:54
compliant fixtures, so you could say with an external Adu. 00:59:59
You have to have Dark Sky compliant fixtures. 01:00:05
Other thoughts, Commissioners? 01:00:15
Everybody's excited. They can't wait to add a Adu in their backyard. 01:00:17
I think in. 01:00:21
Strikes a balance between sort of. 01:00:23
Maintaining a neighborhood. 01:00:27
Well. 01:00:29
The Valley is going to get three times denser in the next, you know, whatever. Maybe not three times, but you know, the whole 01:00:31
value is getting denser. Let's put it all in somebody else's city. That, that. 01:00:37
Both unrealistic and maybe irresponsible. So adus to me even if we get. 01:00:46
A lot of them. 01:00:52
Seem like they'll still feel residential as opposed to saying let's build high rises. 01:00:53
And I would be willing to live in an Adu, but I don't want to live in a high rise. I have kids. I want access to a yard so it 01:00:58
feels like. 01:01:02
This is the kind of densification that I want as the resident of holiday. 01:01:07
Umm. 01:01:13
Because I would. I would be willing to live in a house with an Adu. I'd be willing to have an Adu if it were, you know, big 01:01:14
enough. 01:01:16
It seems like that's a nice way to keep it residential, to keep it so that owners are controlling who's in their Adu. 01:01:21
Umm. 01:01:30
While still being responsible and owning the growth that will happen in the in the Valley. 01:01:31
That's a really nice way to put it. I want to put it in another city. 01:01:37
Well I mean I think there's, I think there's space for different kinds of development. I think there are are lots of places that 01:01:44
we should and. 01:01:47
Have high rises, but I think that density itself is is not bad and to put it all somewhere else, I think it makes it less nice 01:01:52
density. 01:01:57
It does bring up one question which ties back to our favorite Planning Commission subject, which is the parking. 01:02:03
Right. I mean, you have these these sheds, these other things that now are accessory dwelling units, but they still have their 01:02:09
existing 1960s one, maybe two car driveway. Where do these new residents park? Right. And looking at some of the code so I could 01:02:17
bring some proposed options, some cities say that your parking for an Adu can't be tandem part. So if you'd like to see something 01:02:24
as specific as that, you could it would have to be, you know? 01:02:32
To the side of existing required garage spaces for. 01:02:40
For a primary structure. So there are ways to be specific about parking requirements for an external Adu. 01:02:43
So when you view an external Adu as. 01:02:50
I guess special privilege in some sense, right? Yes, you can be allowed this use, but there are impacts with that. 01:02:55
So thus with the impacts, we can put more specific requirements relating to those to those impacts. 01:03:03
I really love the idea of dealing with the tandem parking issue. 01:03:11
On the one across from the park and when we had that silly proposal about tandem parking with, you know, who's in front, who's in 01:03:17
back, you know, two different residents arguing over, you know, and waking each other up to go to work in the morning and that 01:03:23
and. 01:03:28
Yeah, I think it's time to address Tandem. 01:03:35
And I can look at that and see what existing code is in other cities on how they are managing that with external ads specifically. 01:03:39
Well, do you need any more feedback or input on this to be able to move forward with something to? 01:03:49
Feel pretty good at 8:45 at night, Yes, I think we're we're good on that. Our next meeting would be the 5th of December so we can 01:03:56
come back. That gives us a couple weeks to have some proposed text. 01:04:02
For these three text amendments. 01:04:09
OK, I had an item that I wanted to ask about. I was looking for Planning Commission dates because I couldn't find my 2023. 01:04:12
Handy dandy calendar. 01:04:23
And. 01:04:25
Couldn't find it anywhere on the city website, which it may be somewhere, but I couldn't find it easily and that brought to my 01:04:26
attention that the Planning Commission page is out of date. 01:04:32
Even more so, because now we have Mr. Barrett. 01:04:39
Who is also not on here, so I think it's time to get this updated and make sure that the calendar is available. 01:04:42
On the website so that when me planning commissioners can't find their meeting schedule. 01:04:54
Actually can somewhere, is that a reasonable? Aye, aye. Would you like a motion because we could do that for you. It's it's not 01:05:01
just the planning departments, it's out of date. Yeah. So yeah, and we are. So the city is updating the website overall right now. 01:05:08
So that is something that staff is working on is updating all the website. 01:05:15
Please make sure we have access to this and we don't have to like go find an agenda somewhere that. Yeah. And then just on the 01:05:24
note of calendars real quick. So thank you for providing the 2024. It was pointed out that in December we have two December nights 01:05:30
and two December 20 thirds on this draft. 01:05:36
There's there's a few months. There's more than that. Oh, there's more. OK, so I I have my circled copy of Dates to fix, so we'll 01:05:42
get those corrected, OK. 01:05:47
Cool. Excel loves different types of numbers, right? 01:05:52
OK, so December 5th is the next planned meeting then? Yes. OK. Could we also get a roster of? 01:05:57
Commission members. 01:06:05
With. 01:06:07
So with contact information, e-mail address, phone number, is that what you're asking? That would I would like that. That would be 01:06:07
great because we have each others emails from the e-mail stuff but not phone. 01:06:13
Yeah, yeah. 01:06:19
Yep, we can contact information sheets. 01:06:20
As long as we promise not to meet. 01:06:26
About us attacking each other. 01:06:32
No more than three of us can meet anywhere publicly, right? Or privately. OK. All right. Well, thank you very much, everyone. With 01:06:35
that, unless anything else is on the agenda. Motion to adjourn. All in favor, say aye. All right, Have a good night. 01:06:42
Happy Thanksgiving. 01:06:51
You. 01:06:53
Link
Start video at
Social
Embed

* you need to log in to manage your favorites

My Favorites List
You haven't added any favorites yet. Click the "Add Favorite" button on any media page, and they'll show up here.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Loading...
Unable to preview the file.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Loading...
Unable to preview the file.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Loading...
Unable to preview the file.
So if Carrie and Steph's ready to go, I think we'll do a recall to order here if everybody's all set and we will jump in with item 00:00:00
number six. 00:00:05
On our agenda, which is the subdivisions. 00:00:11
Topic Oh my gosh, this looks like fun. Is this carry that's going to be leading this discussion? This one goes to John. All right, 00:00:15
John, you're on the hot plate. Just so excited to talk about subdivision amendments. 00:00:21
So from the legislature hot off the legislators agendas. 00:00:29
This year was a discussion on how to create as many, you know, creating more properties, more homes to make that meet those two 00:00:34
ends of affordability and the having a product that. 00:00:40
Is accessible to municipalities. 00:00:46
One of the hurdles that was brought to the legislature by. 00:00:49
Specific groups was this process by which land is entitled. 00:00:53
Meaning, how fast do subdivisions get through planning commissions? 00:00:59
Specifically. 00:01:05
Looking at all the municipalities across the counties and in the state. 00:01:07
He was discovering that many processes are similar to ours. 00:01:11
Others only have one hearing. You know there were. 00:01:15
Types of processes and how many public hearings are. 00:01:19
And the development community was saying it's confusing. 00:01:23
Ess. 00:01:27
So this the state's mandate was to standardize. 00:01:28
So we have until February 1st to standardize our subdivision process. 00:01:32
Spec. 00:01:39
Moving away from a three-step process, which you're. 00:01:41
Concept of preliminary and a final. 00:01:44
You will no longer have a concept review. 00:01:49
That concept review will be to be a staff level or will roll into some of those elements into the preliminary level. 00:01:52
And some of the real technical items. 00:02:00
That are in the preliminary level of review will roll into a final review which is only available for staff. 00:02:03
That's the second part of this amendment. 00:02:09
Second part meaning. 00:02:12
Only this municipality has only three or four opportunities of review for a final plat. 00:02:15
4 rounds of back and forth with their engineering firm. 00:02:22
In order to get a preliminary final construction set which includes grading storm water retention utility. 00:02:25
Installation. 00:02:33
The nitty gritty that maybe the Planning Commission does not necessarily. 00:02:34
Interested in as far as a land use? 00:02:38
The engineering side and Public Works is interested. The utility companies are interested. 00:02:42
So the state is saying allow the applicant to have that conversation with staff. 00:02:48
At a reasonable rate, with four maximum reviews. 00:02:53
So no concept review that some of those elements will be rolled into a preliminary meeting, one meeting with the Planning 00:02:58
Commission, one hearing. 00:03:02
And that's where the entitlement happens. So after that preliminary review you'll be seeing. 00:03:08
Utility connections, but maybe not the details of the depths of where those pipes are grading. 00:03:14
The lot sizes, utility connection letters? Basically, can those two lots be serviced by? 00:03:20
Life safety, those types of elements making sure it meets the ordinance. 00:03:27
Having your hearing, see if there's any. 00:03:31
Situations and that needs to be addressed in the public. 00:03:34
And then it rolls into. 00:03:38
At staff only. 00:03:40
And so that's that, that's the the third element. 00:03:43
The 4th one is something that is kind of new to at least to holiday is an appeal process. 00:03:47
If after four reviews from a municipality. 00:03:56
The city and the applicant can agree on what is, whatever the element might be, a storm water retention facility type. 00:04:00
They have the ability to appeal that decision to a specific body. 00:04:08
That is made-up by professionals in the field. 00:04:13
And it goes from there. 00:04:18
Highly likely the city of holiday maintenance will never get to that point, but from the larger cities and huge subdivisions that 00:04:21
are plotting 80 to 100 lots, it could be a feasible scenario. But we need to establish the process anyway. 00:04:28
So that's in that ordinance amendment in a nutshell. 00:04:36
The state of Utah is funding various. 00:04:41
To allow municipalities to be counseled on this type of amendment to make sure. 00:04:46
Just like our moderate income housing plan, it has to meet a certain standard and it has to be basically approved. 00:04:53
Luckily, our legal counsel is on that list, so we're going to be getting some free counsel from at least them. So that's why we're 00:04:59
waiting. 00:05:05
Before we get into draft what that amendment and what that actually looks like so that we can have it reviewed. 00:05:11
For compliance with the state law. 00:05:16
And I think in your packet I included what that state law language. 00:05:19
It's a red line. It's a Senate bill. 174 is very huge, but there's just an excerpt that we've taken out that deals with 00:05:23
subdivisions. 00:05:28
So basically, yeah, I don't blame you. 00:05:34
We'll be matching that as much as we possibly can word. 00:05:37
But what it means is our ordinance will be. 00:05:41
Affected greatly. You can see that there's four chapters or 4 sections. 00:05:47
In the title where Subdivision process? 00:05:51
Is addressed, so a good thing it'll be truncated the process, it'll be easier to understand for the applicant. 00:05:54
And you won't be having these long drawn out meetings for subdivisions. 00:06:03
Just to just to verify compliance. 00:06:09
So all around I think it's a decent amendment that we are required to make. 00:06:12
And as we get further into it, I think it'll make me become more. 00:06:18
So will we. 00:06:23
We have a clear understanding of like what's I mean it sounds like it's going to be fairly large and its impact for. 00:06:25
The pre work we have to do to study for approval or you know discussion on some of these things. 00:06:33
And obviously we, I can't speak for the Commission, but I mean, I trust that you're going to go in and rewrite it exactly to what 00:06:40
the state says and do it in the most sensible way possible. But are we going to have some kind of recursive training of like, OK, 00:06:45
here's what you're actually going to do and this is what's everything that's changed now and here's the things you need to look 00:06:50
at. 00:06:54
Yeah, we'll definitely review it. And then we have the process, because the process has to be written and that'll be your. 00:07:00
Chapter 8. So your process is written in there very clearly when you're supposed to hold a hearing. 00:07:06
When the applicant has the responsibility to respond to the staff's comments. 00:07:12
It's pretty black and white in that section, so when we go through that. 00:07:17
Hopefully it'll be it'll be clear as to what your responsibilities will be. 00:07:20
The hope, but at that point you'll just see now that we have a public hearing at the preliminary level. 00:07:25
The list of items that we're going to see will be sort of a combination of preliminary and concept. 00:07:31
But maybe not so much the technical side. 00:07:37
And you can leave the technical sides to our engineering department or public. 00:07:40
To have them go back and forth with the engineering side. 00:07:44
To get a drawing that is acceptable to the city. 00:07:49
And. 00:07:54
I always mess up the order. I'm sorry. Is the the concept where the the tree review is or is that in the final? 00:07:56
That will be preliminary. That'll be a preliminary. Thank you. So it's a good thing we're combining because I mess them up. 00:08:03
Anyway, this concept right now is really, does it comply with the zone? Do you have lot sizes that are right and can those? 00:08:09
Or more lots be serviced by utilities. 00:08:15
And then parking is going to be somewhere in there as well still or if it's like a multi family project or multi use project, yes 00:08:19
parking will be in there because that's that's his own compliance issue. 00:08:25
And I forgot there's another element that. 00:08:33
That is going to be a policy question that I think that our Council is going to have to make a final decision on. 00:08:38
One that you can recommend to them. 00:08:45
Is that and this occurred several years ago, we just haven't adopted it yet. 00:08:47
One and two lot subdivisions are not required to go to your land use. 00:08:53
One in two lot subdivisions can be done administratively. 00:08:57
By. 00:09:01
It's always been the policy by holiday City Council to review those about the land use authority in this body. 00:09:03
So we are going to bring that to the Planning Commission and then also City Council, see what they think about. 00:09:10
Leaving 2 lot subdivisions. 00:09:17
Just to staff as a staff review and. 00:09:19
Anything more than that, 2-3 lots. 00:09:23
A multifamily condos multi multi use projects will obviously go to the land use authority. 00:09:26
But those two lot subdivisions? 00:09:34
Most cities don't take to their Planning Commission. 00:09:36
And are those noticed? 00:09:40
Yeah, they'll follow a different notice. So what will happen is the the site will be posted. 00:09:43
And then they'll have, we'll take a 10 day comment period. If there's anything that's really abnormal shows up, then we'll bring 00:09:48
it to the Planning Commission for review. 00:09:53
Otherwise, after that 10 day, we'll just follow through with our own preliminary concept and final platinum process. 00:09:58
But it won't be in this venue, it'll just be at administrative level. 00:10:04
And. 00:10:09
Will there when it's noticed, whether it's still a budding properties and neighbors will be noticed up to 500 feet or whatever, 00:10:11
right? 00:10:14
Yeah, that's another element that I'm pretty sure that their council would like to preserve is the is the noticing and hearing. 00:10:20
But instead of it actually being a hearing where people come say I don't want it in my backyard, it'll just be send your comments 00:10:28
to staff and they'll say thanks, send it to Kerry and beat her up and find out what exactly needs to if it if it's actually a 00:10:34
substantive comment that needs to be addressed by the Planning Commission rather than staff in in in an open meeting. 00:10:40
Not in my department behind you know, closed doors, so to speak. 00:10:47
Other questions? 00:10:56
Mr. Tierlink. 00:10:58
Upcoming changes We're all excited to learn new. 00:11:00
It's just getting figured out, right? 00:11:03
Too. 00:11:07
Well, as long as you guys guide us through the process, I'm sure it'll be great. Well, we're learning with. 00:11:09
So we'll figure it out. We'll just remember to have meetings when we're supposed to have meetings. You can just kick the chair on 00:11:14
that one. 00:11:17
All right. Well then with that any, if there's no other questions on that, then we'll look forward to the proposed changes coming 00:11:20
to a meeting to you soon and move on to. 00:11:25
OK, so item number 7, Ordinance discussion about home occupations. Conditional use permits that are involved with home 00:11:33
occupations. 00:11:38
Business licensing, parking, kind of everything that is within the purview of or involved with a home occupation. So Speaking of 00:11:43
fewer meetings. 00:11:48
The proposal is to take the conditional use that's associated with a home occupation and create a set list of conditions that are 00:11:54
applied to all home occupation permits. 00:12:01
In our review process, as you've seen with. 00:12:10
Home occupations that that you have reviewed, it's typically very similar conditions. 00:12:12
Imposed by, you know, specifics of parking has to all be on the site. 00:12:20
Limited hours. If there's groups, you know what? How does drop off and pick up? How is that managed? So it's including those and 00:12:26
making sure those are included within the list of conditions. 00:12:32
And you can be as specific or more general as you want, imposing those. 00:12:39
And or allowing staff to impose conditions that are specifically relevant to the application. 00:12:46
Some of those are outlined in the table that is in the staff report. 00:12:55
So going through those, some of the changes are more minor housekeeping items, changing the table of allowed uses. 00:13:01
Home occupation changing approval by the Planning Commission to approval of by staff with conditions. 00:13:12
Umm. 00:13:18
Putting. 00:13:20
You could consider separating out the impact of home occupations. So daycares, preschools, group lessons might be a higher impact 00:13:23
because of the amount of of people coming to the site. So you could put a limitation or you know define low versus high impact, 00:13:30
what is high impact, what is low impact? That's something that we could look into if that is something that the Planning 00:13:37
Commission would like to see and some proposed text. 00:13:45
The another issue that. 00:13:55
That we were looking at is with the involvement of accessory buildings or yard space. Our current code does not allow the use of 00:13:59
yard space or accessory buildings. 00:14:05
The production of things can occur in those, but the actual conducting of the business has to occur within the primary dwelling. 00:14:10
As we looked at this, it was you know, if somebody has created an accessory building or want to use part of a detached garage, or 00:14:19
build a detached structure that is just for their office purposes. 00:14:26
Being able to allow that within specific conditions. 00:14:35
So that is a consideration that that you can discuss. 00:14:38
Parking. 00:14:42
Currently our code refers to our off stripe or on site parking requirements which requires 2 for business use based off of any 00:14:44
businesses. The same standard for home occupations and the same standard for any business use within commercial zones I. 00:14:54
Professional office zones. 00:15:06
A proposed change on that would be to allow the use of 1 off or one street parking space directly abutting the the residents. 00:15:09
That suggestion came from a review of looking at. 00:15:20
Liberties. 00:15:27
They had some proposed code. 00:15:29
Suggesting that you could evolve. 00:15:31
And the link between that is a normal residential use, so residential uses typically you'd see on street parking allowed. 00:15:35
Or guests would have on street parking, so allowing your home occupation to involve one on street parking space. 00:15:44
So that would be a consideration that you could look. 00:15:52
Other than that, your specific condition could be that all parking associated with the business. 00:15:56
Involves. 00:16:01
The property itself. 00:16:03
And that one street or or it could just be all managed on site. So taking out the required two and just saying it's all managed 00:16:05
within the property. Carrie, I'm curious. 00:16:10
With the like for example, the parking changes, right? 00:16:17
Would there be consideration given to the different master plans? For example, I could see. 00:16:22
Saying allowing street parking in the Village would be a much bigger deal than allowing street parking in an R110 in the North 40 00:16:29
of Holiday where you know people are parked on the street. 00:16:35
Anyway, you know what I mean, Yeah. 00:16:41
And that could be a zone consideration. 00:16:46
If you wanted. 00:16:49
And I don't know, John, maybe you'd have a suggestion on how that could be addressed or if that would be. 00:16:51
A good consideration to include differe. 00:17:00
Working requirements based off of the zone, sure. So for example, you can definitely have a percentage of what's allowed the off 00:17:03
street or on street parking or off site. 00:17:08
In the village you have, we have I think a minimum of 10% of your minimum required can be. 00:17:15
Used as the yarn St. stalls that are in front. 00:17:21
It's very difficult for a municipality to defend the fact. 00:17:25
If you have a home based. 00:17:29
You those clients can't use a public St. to park in front of their house, whereas. 00:17:32
Other guests could. 00:17:37
I think we want to make sure we put the city in a good position to not to be defensible. 00:17:40
On whether or not that requirement is being placed on applicants. 00:17:47
To have the requirement for off street parking. 00:17:51
Whether that's a percentage you can have or a certain time of the day, you know those are the type of scenarios we might be 00:17:55
looking at. If on street parking was an option, that's that's now considered by Planning Commission and City Council. 00:18:01
Come. 00:18:09
Yeah, I have a bit of a concern with the whole idea that many people already have the the parking in front of their houses, their 00:18:10
parking. 00:18:14
And that they have exclusive control of it. And that and practice I've seen in another community where people put cones in their 00:18:19
front of their home so that only people they want to park in their part of the public street can park. 00:18:27
In that and whether or not if you allow say one of the two parking spaces to be an off St. and yours is already full does that now 00:18:36
your neighbor you can park in front of the neighbors house and then they come out and say no I got a party to say and you know I 00:18:42
mean. 00:18:48
I think it's a dangerous thing to start down this idea that the public owns. 00:18:54
In any way, whether it's for Hallmark or guests or whatever the parking in front of their house, it's just street parking. 00:18:59
And then but you know I I think it's worthy of the discussion and and looking at it but I you know I'm I'm a little concerned that 00:19:08
that reinforces the idea that the parking in front of your house is your control, absolute control of of that. 00:19:16
And you could I mean it. 00:19:26
An option would be to just not detail any of the not restricting on street parking at all if there's street parking available, 00:19:28
people who are coming to the house for business purposes as long as it's a low impact. So if you're looking at dividing low and 00:19:36
high impact, maybe all of low impact is. 00:19:43
You know you can park on site. You have to. 00:19:51
Parking provided on site. 00:19:54
If there is some street parking, it would be one car at a time. 00:19:56
So something like that that restricts some degree of parking, but isn't so specific about it's the one spot in front of your 00:20:00
house. 00:20:05
And for your code enforcement people, this becomes a very problematic thing about you know, OK, how do you prove which purpose 00:20:11
that car is there? 00:20:16
You. 00:20:21
It's real easy when you see the cello getting pulled out of the back of it. 00:20:22
You have. 00:20:27
You know this is not a public hearing, so but and that related to that, I did have a thought because of what happened earlier and 00:20:31
that I do think we need to think about if the home walk is in a apartment complex which is different than a condominium, which is 00:20:40
different than a residential community. 00:20:48
And they have single homes, and there may be unique things for each of those. 00:20:58
And one would be an interesting legal question about, you know, if it runs with the land OK and it comes in an apartment. 00:21:04
And we don't have the owner of the apartment asking for. 00:21:11
We have a. 00:21:15
A renter? 00:21:17
In that condominium, obviously different how you got an owner. 00:21:18
But unit 229 if I remember the number you 2229. So I want to move into a complex. 00:21:22
And I don't want to go through a process, so I buy 229 because it already has. I just think that those, at least those three kinds 00:21:29
of housing have some very unique. 00:21:35
Considerations independent of HOA rules and all that. Mm-hmm. And that, that. 00:21:41
Are worthy at looking at as we we review this there there is. That's a good point and I I think it'll require some work to figure 00:21:48
out what the right solution is given. 00:21:53
These different communities, but one way you can get at. 00:21:59
Is to tie with the home occupation business. 00:22:03
That runs with the land business license requirement. That doesn't run with the land. 00:22:08
And if the business license ceases to exist at the location, then. 00:22:14
Permitted. 00:22:19
Or conditional use ceases to exist at the location that would be good and they they're kind of tied together. 00:22:21
And then similarly the business license gives you the right to. 00:22:28
The property from time to time when they go for a renewal. 00:22:33
So for those difficult, code enforcement matters where you're limited because you cannot enter a home. 00:22:36
Look at traffic counts or do those kinds of things. It gives you a. 00:22:44
To go in and inspect. 00:22:48
I know we're not talking about ad use, but if you had. 00:22:49
Adus or things like that, you know, that's a good tool that can help you get at some of those issues. 00:22:53
Yeah. 00:23:00
And do you envision if it becomes an administrative process through staff, there would still be public notice? 00:23:01
Because. 00:23:11
One of the things I've noticed and this this woman tonight was a good example. 00:23:12
We don't know enough about the situation that the neighbors know lots of things. 00:23:17
Some of which are true and some of which aren't, but at least at least. 00:23:22
You know, tell us what is something that should be subject. 00:23:28
Or may be subject to a conditional use. 00:23:31
And we keep calling it a conditional use, but if there's no public input, it's. 00:23:35
Unless, you know, we figure out ferret it out on our own, which really isn't our job. 00:23:40
You know and that. So I as we go through this, if it becomes administrative process, would there still be a noticing requirement? 00:23:44
I think there is a value to that. 00:23:49
Yeah. And the, I mean the purpose of a conditional use is to mitigate impact on surrounding properties. So it's to look at what 00:23:55
that impact is. Some of those impacts may not be immediately foreseeable and that I guess that's a question that for a legal 00:24:01
counsel could. 00:24:07
Noticing be a requirement still without having a public hearing. 00:24:14
Where you just take comments. 00:24:19
The way that we want to take address this is finding. 00:24:22
Home occupation uses that have been routine and uncontested in the past. 00:24:27
Because those standards have pretty much been standardized. 00:24:31
As years have passed and applications keeps coming on and all the same conditions get applied to. 00:24:35
You know the weird circumstances, the odd ducks, so to speak, that would come to the Planning Commission would would be noticed. 00:24:41
Like, for example, a home occupation in a condo complex. 00:24:49
Or some odd. 00:24:53
Home occupation or business that's being run out of a home that we've never seen before, Those are not routine and they could 00:24:55
possibly be contested as well. So those, those definitely would have a hearing applied to them. 00:25:01
For sure. 00:25:08
But for those others that are. 00:25:09
Music lessons? 00:25:12
You know the the home based therapist. 00:25:14
We know what those conditions have been applied or in the past we can pretty much standardize. 00:25:18
As long as they comply with those standards themselves. 00:25:23
Great. They can get their business license and go. 00:25:27
If they can't, then they can bring, come bring it to the Planning Commission with a hearing and find out what those those issues 00:25:30
are. 00:25:32
But you're absolutely right. You know, the hearing process is critical for that fact finding. 00:25:36
So it's just to kind of summarize. So really what you're looking for is like take the ones that pretty much no one can test that 00:25:44
we approve all the time and we ask a couple questions about parking and just say city staff can handle those from now on. We don't 00:25:50
need to go through all the rings of fire for planning and everybody else for these applicants. 00:25:57
And in. 00:26:03
And what and in which zone you're comfortable with? Yeah. 00:26:05
Makes. 00:26:10
Any other questions? 00:26:14
Lessening our workload. 00:26:17
Let's go ahead and move on to the next one. 00:26:24
Don't. 00:26:30
And then I guess on that note too with these discussions, if you have any points that you would like staff to go the direction and 00:26:32
so those items of discussion. 00:26:37
Where What kind of drafted text would you like to see? 00:26:43
So just a. 00:26:48
In this case, how specific or more general? 00:26:50
Are you talking about in regards to? 00:26:55
Just how much? 00:26:58
Approves on them like or if there's any specific conditions that you want to have included. 00:27:00
I mean I think the on site parking is relevant. 00:27:06
In a lot of cases, I mean, especially after tonight's discussion, I think we kind of went through that, right? 00:27:10
I. 00:27:18
Depending on your number of clients and you know those type of situations on sites not. 00:27:19
Unreasonable request. 00:27:26
So I think that's still something that needs to be considered because like. 00:27:29
In a lot of cases, like am I worried about someone with cello lessons, right? Parking on the street and dropping their kid off to 00:27:35
cello? 00:27:38
Not really. 00:27:42
But what happens when it's a giant moving van that's parking on the street as part of some business? Because that's what they 00:27:43
drive and now all of a sudden it's a problem. You know what I mean? 00:27:50
Landscape Trailer every night. 00:28:00
Yeah. 00:28:03
Those type of things I think is where you start to get kind of a rye on that. Yeah. Some of those more specific things with larger 00:28:05
vehicles are naturally restricted in our code where you can't have vehicles larger than. 00:28:12
110 John Hart for longer than an hour. 00:28:19
I like this idea of. 00:28:27
Having low impact versus high impact. 00:28:29
Sort of. 00:28:33
Looking at the correlation between what the impact is and. 00:28:36
How? How dense or or what zone it's in because? 00:28:40
I mean to me it doesn't make a lot of sense if you are only going to have one person to your home based business at a time. To 00:28:45
require 2 on site parkings like that, that doesn't make sense and that's. 00:28:50
Restricting a lot of people who should not be restricted I think in having their business. So I'm I'm in favor of making the 00:28:55
parking more flexible sort of as as this is. 00:29:01
Suggesting here lowering it for in circumstances where it makes sense to have a lower minimum. 00:29:07
And then in places where it's more dense, we still want people to be able to have businesses even if they live in a condo, so. 00:29:16
Umm. 00:29:25
You know, figuring, figuring that out, how how are we going to let them do that? I think that's reasonable. 00:29:27
We have a lot of parking lots. 00:29:33
I think we should. 00:29:37
Use. 00:29:39
You know and. 00:29:41
Be as restricted as we have. So I think that combination. 00:29:43
Is good thinking about impact and. 00:29:48
With the parking, the prohibited uses, can you just talk about that one again it looks like. 00:29:50
Don't have prohibited uses. 00:29:58
And this is making suggestions about things that. 00:30:02
May not want people to do in their home based businesses. Is that is that a correct reading of that right? 00:30:05
So. 00:30:11
There were a couple of cities that call out specific uses in that home occupation section of uses that are expressly not allowed. 00:30:13
So example. 00:30:18
Salons with multiple employees. So if you have like 2 salon people, so then they're seeing multiple clients at a time. 00:30:25
Kennels, commercial stables. These are pretty. 00:30:33
Or just much larger impact? 00:30:36
Home occupations that could occur. 00:30:39
You could include these or any other specifics that that you could see as potentially being an issue or we could incorporate just 00:30:42
a general provision that any uses outside of a normal customary use would require review by Planning Commission. 00:30:51
Just in the short time I've been on the Commission, we've seen. 00:31:04
Instances. 00:31:09
Neighbors tend to bleed before they're cut. 00:31:11
You know, we get a lot of complaints from people who anticipate problems before there's even. 00:31:16
Any action. 00:31:24
And. 00:31:26
I think we have to be sensitive to that and. 00:31:27
We can't head everything off at the pass. I think we just have to. 00:31:31
Understand that people don't like change. 00:31:36
And to Angela's point, we want to be welcoming and friendly to business. 00:31:40
I I like your description of the. 00:31:46
Us. 00:31:49
That would fall outside of. 00:31:52
Types of activities would have to be reviewed, however it was you said that that sounded a reasonable way to try and split the. 00:31:55
You know, split the difference between. 00:32:03
Prescribing everything that is allowed and everything that's not allowed. 00:32:05
In a more workable way. 00:32:10
It would not be appropriate for me to make the policy judgment. 00:32:13
Is for you all. 00:32:17
But there are certain categories of uses that are just dangerous if they're in a home environment. 00:32:19
And I would encourage you to look at the list that they put together. The firearms 1 catches my eye, that's for sure. And. 00:32:27
Issues you'll get into are dry cleaning businesses that use in store chemicals, firearms. You know, there are certain categories 00:32:36
of things where I think you pretty easily can say we never want this to occur. 00:32:42
There's a middle category of things where. 00:32:48
Maybe you'll want to see it and apply some jud. 00:32:51
But I. 00:32:55
There are some things where you will want to list, otherwise it becomes difficult to defend it when when you deny that use or that 00:32:57
application. 00:33:01
Sample that kind of comes to mind might be. 00:33:06
Somebody that's running a paint and Body Shop out of their two car detached a garage and they have air compressors and grinders 00:33:09
and right. The smell of paints in in you know introduced to the neighborhood, you know. 00:33:16
Or the like the firearms or. Or the firearms. Grenades. Yeah. In the basement. Never go off. Yeah, yeah. 00:33:24
Archery centers. 00:33:32
As far as like allowing on street parking, if it were to go that way with certain uses, 1 consideration I would want to see in 00:33:35
there would be the number of. 00:33:41
Allowed conditional uses on a street or adjacent in a certain neighborhood. 00:33:47
Because, for example, I live on a street that has 15 houses of 10 of my neighbors decided they all wanted a conditional use permit 00:33:52
to do cello lessons. 00:33:56
I would be very. 00:34:00
Coming down my street at the hours of drop off and pick up of all my neighbors doing it at once. 00:34:02
I'm on a street right now where I know they don't have conditional use permits, but there's three home based businesses. 00:34:10
All within. 00:34:17
Less than an eighth of a mile of my home. 00:34:18
And when they're having their parties every Friday night. 00:34:21
It's so crazy you can't even get one car down the drive or down the street, let alone pass the car. 00:34:26
And that becomes a safety issue. It becomes, you know, an issue where if we're allowing every home on a street to have a home 00:34:33
based business and on street parking. 00:34:38
I didn't purchase my home to live in a business district, right? Yeah, And that's one of the elements that's already currently 00:34:43
written in ordinance. 00:34:48
You can. 00:34:54
Or exert your authority to deny a conditional use permit if there is. 00:34:56
And I don't know exactly what the language is. Something like an unusual concentration? 00:35:01
Of those types of uses within and, it gives a. 00:35:06
I've never really ran into that before. 00:35:11
But yes, that type of that notion is in there is in the court already, OK. 00:35:14
Just looking into the crystal ball, I'm sure there's not 12 piano teachers on one street right now, but you never know. The only 00:35:19
situation where I've run into that being an issue is where you have home based business applications. 00:35:25
Residences that are near schools. 00:35:32
If the drop off and pick up time for the home based business is the same as the school, then you get the crush all at once. 00:35:35
Those. 00:35:43
I don't know what you call them in your code, but the accumulation of impacts all at the same time becomes an issue. 00:35:45
Yeah. 00:35:52
And we most likely hear about that from neighbors who know the schedule. Remember the one we had with? 00:35:53
Hairdresser and they wanted to keep the. 00:36:02
Not have them open. Wireless alleyway was being used for the school. 00:36:05
Which was, you know, the school is now closed. So you know, we and we knew that and they they probably should have known that too. 00:36:09
But. 00:36:13
You only hear about those things from the immediate neighbors who know the flow of the neighborhood. 00:36:19
A consideration on that too with it is one of the bullet points. So parking that exceeds the parking that is available on the. 00:36:25
Possibly involving that one extra street parking in front of the house or one street parking space in general. So putting a 00:36:34
limitation on how often that type of exceedance can occur so it can't exceed more than two times in a month or more than two times 00:36:41
in a 30 day period, whatever that. 00:36:48
What would be reasonable? 00:36:56
For exceedance. 00:36:59
I feel like that might be a challenge for code enforcement, though, right? Like you'd have to have a neighbor. That's like 00:37:03
recording the comings and goings, basically. Yeah, And a lot of, a lot of the. 00:37:07
Conditional use issues, when it does come to code enforcement and what it creates an issue is then when Planning Commission would 00:37:14
look at it or the Community and Economic Development Director would look at it and say OK we need to evaluate your conditions 00:37:19
here. I I do think it is reasonable to say something like. 00:37:25
Yes, it may happen once or twice a month, but more than that is could be considered an unreasonable. 00:37:31
Imposition on the neighbors. 00:37:39
We may not hit the right number right off the bat, but if you don't pick a number. 00:37:43
How? 00:37:49
See if it's the right number or not right. 00:37:50
So creating a standard. 00:37:53
Clear. We communicated. 00:37:56
Mr. Barrett. 00:38:03
Any any thoughts? You're awfully quiet down there, yeah. 00:38:04
Taking it all in, I think it's a good idea to do this type of code. Give staff some authority on these things where the Commission 00:38:08
I, you know, where the law already sets out the standards and if they can meet that, that that should be them. Go ahead and get 00:38:13
started. 00:38:18
I My biggest concern here is how we define what neighborhood traffic is anymore, because I think wasn't the. 00:38:24
Standard 10 vehicle trips per day per residence. 00:38:33
So, but there used to be a or there is a standard for how many vehicles can come to your house. 00:38:39
And beyond that is an increase in neighborhood traffic. Well, I know now that I have several 100. 00:38:45
You know, FedEx trucks, UPS trucks that are going down, that are changing by that dynamic of neighborhood traffic. 00:38:55
I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this point, but I'm just I'm concerned about the traffic and the parking. 00:39:03
I don't want to create a law or rules that we can't have some logical. 00:39:11
Effective enforcement. 00:39:16
You know, and so the clearer we can make this, the better I. 00:39:20
I wish I had a better suggestion than that, but I appreciate what the other Commissioners have said because I think that's on 00:39:25
point. 00:39:29
I know that businesses are going to become more sophisticated in the future because. 00:39:34
It's becoming more logical for people to stay at home and do their business and how that all factors, so we may have to have. 00:39:39
An ordinance that can be modified quickly to meet those kind of demands or? 00:39:48
Expect. 00:39:54
Good discussion. Any other? 00:39:59
Thoughts or points around the conditional use text amendment. 00:40:02
Moving right along. 00:40:08
Accessory Dwelling. 00:40:11
Last item. OK, so. 00:40:12
You'll remember our Rezone application that involved an accessory dwelling unit. It wasn't. 00:40:17
It was underneath a detached garage. It was on a lot that was less than 8000 square feet after the public dedication. 00:40:25
Label typically as a bonus room. That might be something that you'd see as, oh, we have a shed that's converted to an office space 00:40:35
or shed that's converted to some sort of. 00:40:41
Neighbor or some sort of alternate use. That's that somebody may want to convert to a accessory dwelling unit. So taking that shed 00:40:48
or some space into. 00:40:53
Making it a habitable space. 00:40:59
So City Council did not approve that rezone, but directed staff to look at our Adu ordinance, and specifically. 00:41:03
Allowing the conversion of existing accessory buildings. So if you have a detached garage or if you have a shed. 00:41:13
What kind of a code? 00:41:23
Change would then allow somebody to convert that accessory dwelling or accessory building into a dwelling unit. 00:41:26
So right now our code does not allow external dwelling units on lots that are less than half an acre or that are twice the the 00:41:34
minimum lot size. 00:41:39
John, is it that they can't rent that so they could still create? 00:41:47
Some sort of habitable space in an accessory unit, but they couldn't rent it. 00:41:52
OK. 00:41:58
With the current code. 00:42:00
OK. And I think the way that we proceed is written is that. 00:42:04
To the. 00:42:09
To be used. 00:42:13
Accessory standards. 00:42:18
So I could turn. 00:42:25
Would there be restrictions on how many? Like for example if I had a shed and a greenhouse in my backyard which I do, could I make 00:42:27
2 accessory dwelling units? No our code limits and accessory dwelling unit. You can only have one on the property so that could be 00:42:33
interior or or an external. 00:42:39
So in this particular case, were they looking for a way to let this person have what they've denied him, we denied him? 00:42:48
Or they really think that they want to open up the whole city. 00:42:56
It's a larger they looked at. 00:43:01
As a way. 00:43:06
Address some of our moderate income housing goals, one of those being remove restrictions around accessory dwelling units. 00:43:10
So looking at what our current code is, how restrictive is it? What changes could be made to that to meet that moderate income 00:43:18
housing goal? 00:43:22
And thus allow the creation of more accessory dwelling units. 00:43:27
And I'm in. 00:43:31
Increasing the ability to have moderate but what we tend to approve. 00:43:34
Taking 2000 square foot guest houses and make them into 5000 square foot, which doesn't help the moderate. 00:43:39
You know, it's almost like. 00:43:48
The people with the money to build these huge things. 00:43:50
Where? 00:43:54
The the changes to allow moderate. 00:43:57
Housing. 00:44:01
The goal isn't being met. 00:44:04
True, it's being met. It's being met by taking big places on expensive properties and creating a house that's not moderately 00:44:07
priced. 00:44:11
Those that you that you see that go through that process are pretty small subset to what Kerry reviews and approves at the counter 00:44:16
for accessory buildings. 00:44:21
That's why they're coming to you is because they're they're abnormality. 00:44:25
In the area there might be conditions that have to be applied to that large of a structure. 00:44:29
Umm. 00:44:35
It's. 00:44:36
I would say maybe one or two a year. 00:44:37
Maybe 3 come to the Planning Commission but opposed to maybe. 00:44:39
15 or so a year accessory dwelling units. 00:44:43
Reviewed. 00:44:47
Another thing we commonly see is just people who would like to build a detached garage and maybe add a unit above it or you know, 00:44:48
off the back of it. So there are people who are wanting to build accessory dwelling units that are detached and separate from the 00:44:55
house. I'm usually associated with a detached garage some. 00:45:02
There is. 00:45:10
There's a lot more movement in the building community to have modular homes. So you'll see like modular units that are one or two 00:45:12
bedrooms that can just be placed on a house. They're designed to be less expensive to construct, less expensive to put in place. 00:45:19
More approachable for for homeowners, especially owners who own smaller properties that maybe want something a little bit smaller. 00:45:26
Is there a minimum size that these would have to be like? I mean, for example, could I take my 20 by 10 greenhouse space and say 00:45:34
it's a tiny home? 00:45:39
You could. There's an accessory. Buildings have a set footprint size. 00:45:45
Minimum size is 200 square feet. 00:45:53
That's I think that. 00:45:56
Yeah, yeah. External dwelling units, there's a minimum size of 200 square feet. I mean, there's barely room for a toilet in that, 00:45:58
but yeah. 00:46:02
Can I ask you a question about the? 00:46:07
The Is there a difference with setbacks and separation from the main structure between accessory buildings and Adus? There is our 00:46:09
code. 00:46:14
States that you have to have a 25% increase in your set back distance if it involves A dwelling unit. 00:46:21
Less. 00:46:30
And that's where you run into some conflict with existing accessory structures. So existing accessory structures are built to 1 00:46:32
standard. 00:46:36
And converting that to a dwelling unit has a different standard. 00:46:42
So the the standard that it was built under would apply. So you're going to end up with some. 00:46:47
Accessory structures that are converted that have the setbacks required for an accessory building, but not the setbacks that would 00:46:54
be required for a new structure or a new dwelling unit. OK And is there a maximum size that the Adu can be? 00:47:02
In comparison to the primary. 00:47:13
So our code has accessory buildings, limited footprint, size, that's the accessory, but not Adus. We don't have, are they the 00:47:18
same? OK, OK. 00:47:23
So that would limit the size of your 5000 square foot. 00:47:29
In most cases, I guess right we do have you can't apply for a conditional use permit. Is that just on guest houses, John? Or is 00:47:34
it? 00:47:38
So you can apply for a conditional use permit for any accessory building that you're proposing to be over the permitted size. 00:47:45
So that would be like the RV garage that they wanted to add on. It was over the larger or over the footprint size? 00:47:53
Add. 00:48:01
So this would be a concern I guess in in looking forward to if this were something that were to happen, but. 00:48:02
If I have a garage right, and it's at the far corner of my backyard, right long driveway, we've seen these old pioneer style 00:48:10
houses down and you know Garfield 13 S area. 00:48:16
But if I decide I want to build an apartment above that garage and call it and you know, a dwelling unit like is there still going 00:48:24
to be restrictions on height and things like that or am I like building this tower that's going to look down on all the neighbors 00:48:31
backyards from that point forward? Exactly. So our building permit process, you do have a graduated height requirement. 00:48:38
So that's created by going 8 feet up and then a 45 degree angle over. 00:48:45
Most structures that are 20 feet or less, just depending on how close they are to the property line if you want. 00:48:51
Our accessory structures are limited to 20 feet in height. 00:48:59
If you're 20, if you're 3 feet off the property line, you may have to come back further away to meet your graduated high 00:49:04
requirements, just depending on how that. 00:49:09
Building is constructed so they could build the tower, but they'd have to build it further into the yard. 00:49:15
So are you looking? 00:49:22
Our comments on the proposed changes that we eliminate. 00:49:24
Twice the size and also at least 1/2 acre, so that yes that is one option so. 00:49:29
Kind of a series of options you could. 00:49:37
You could limit it to just saying code change to. 00:49:41
Allowing the conversion of existing structures that are on lots that are smaller than half an acre or lots that don't meet that 00:49:45
twice the minimum. 00:49:51
Lot size required in. 00:49:57
So that's one option. 00:49:59
If you wanted to. 00:50:01
Eliminates. 00:50:04
The half acre minimum lot size or twice the both of those requirements and allow external dwelling units to be built on lots 00:50:09
smaller than. 00:50:15
Than half an acre, that would be another option. 00:50:21
Can I ask a question on that as far as the history? Are you seeing a lot of requests? 00:50:26
That are bumping up into this twice the size and half acre minimum. 00:50:31
Or I the I mean, does it really hurt if we just eliminate that language and? 00:50:37
If they can fit the building in the property based on the setbacks, they could do it. 00:50:44
And that's where if you wanted to create some more limitations. 00:50:49
For. 00:50:54
Mitigating impacts of if you're going to have an external dwelling. 00:50:55
Maybe it can't have a door that is on a side property line. The door would have to be inside the property. 00:50:59
Another common thing is Windows facing. You know or. 00:51:08
Having to have landscaping or fencing that that buffers from neighboring properties, or requiring larger setback distances so you 00:51:14
could. 00:51:20
Set back your accessory dwelling. 00:51:25
Further from the property lines. 00:51:28
There's some cities that require external dwelling units to be within the setbacks required for a primary structure. 00:51:31
So that could be an option as well. 00:51:40
If you wanted to bring anything that's an accessory dwelling unit external into those. 00:51:43
Required setbacks for a. 00:51:48
I. 00:51:51
For me personally, I would prefer it be the existing conversion rather than the let's let loose and everybody on the street builds 00:51:52
a guest house in the backyard and an R110 where the lots are 8000 square feet. 00:52:00
I could see a whole bunch of tiny homes crowding out real fast, and there's your moderate income. But at the same time, at what 00:52:07
cost do you do that right? Well, whatever is most respectful for the existing residents, right? You know, whatever is most 00:52:13
respectful for the neighbors. 00:52:20
I think I agree with that. 00:52:26
We saw. 00:52:29
In cases where they had an existing and newer home that had just been built and. 00:52:34
Couldn't call it rented or something. Everything problem. 00:52:39
Because it was on two small smalls, a lot and then two of the neighbors also they wanted it rezoned because those two neighbors 00:52:44
also wanted to build accessory dwelling unit. 00:52:49
That would have been a lot. I mean that. 00:52:57
Tripled, right, the residency in that little area on that little St. with small lots as opposed to if this, what we're talking 00:52:59
about happened then the one would have already been built in there and maybe the other one converts his garage, right? 00:53:07
But it doesn't create new buildings because they were wanting to build new buildings, right? 00:53:17
So and feel much more comfortable in doing that. 00:53:23
So they they can still build buildings and they can still build. 00:53:28
External Dwelling Units. 00:53:35
They just. 00:53:37
Rent them. Is that the distinction? No, they. They. 00:53:39
Did they have more than twice the lot size for those lots? No. That was the issue. They were trying to rezone it because they were 00:53:43
trying to so most of those properties in that area and largely for most R110 zones in the city. 00:53:51
We have neighborhoods which we call super conforming. 00:53:59
They're more than the minimum R110 zone. 00:54:02
So not enough to subdivide but. 00:54:05
Too small to plow. You know that type of situation where they they, they just have these massive backyards they don't know what to 00:54:08
do with? Mm-hmm. So they're kind of stuck. 00:54:12
They're stuck between the can't subdivide it to get an extra lot back there, but they're also not big enough to. 00:54:17
Accessory dwelling you in their backyard. 00:54:23
And that is, that is we are seeing that as a hindrance for most people. 00:54:26
Where they go straight down the street and they have a larger lot, maybe a different zone. 00:54:30
Umm. 00:54:35
And they're able to have that that accessory detached. We're talking about detached attached, absolutely. 00:54:36
You can put an addition on your house, put an attached garage, put it in, you know, an accessory dwelling above it, have at it if 00:54:42
they want to do that, they're they're perfectly within their right to do that, yeah. 00:54:47
It is the city tracking the success of moderate income. 00:54:53
We're making these changes. We say all this stuff and then do you, does the city know how many? 00:54:59
Moderate income based housing units there are in the city. 00:55:05
We have a pretty good idea. 00:55:09
Especially those that are. 00:55:12
And we have to report those numbers every year. So I guess I'm wondering if whatever we propose or whatever, can we attach a 00:55:15
guesstimate as to how much impact that would have if we said we did this. We think you know over the next decade we generate 24 00:55:22
more moderate income housing. 00:55:29
And I think that would be useful to us in doing the analysis because you're right, if we're only seeing the guest houses which are 00:55:37
going to be rent free to a family member. 00:55:43
Um. 00:55:49
That didn't solve any moderate income housing. 00:55:50
And if it went on the rental market, it would be not for moderate income housing. 00:55:53
And I guess the larger discussion here. 00:55:58
By allowing smaller units and maybe not a tiny home, maybe it's you know. 00:56:01
Studio. 00:56:07
Pre built thing that a property owner can reasonably. 00:56:08
Put in their backyard and is that significantly different than adding on to a house? So if you're either locating it. 00:56:12
Further back on the property, so there's more privacy or you're adding it onto your house, it's you're still adding a dwelling 00:56:21
unit. 00:56:26
The location is. Can all the parking be managed on? 00:56:31
Can the impacts of putting? 00:56:35
Unit further back on the property. 00:56:38
Be managed with landscaping requirements. 00:56:41
Location of doorways, windows, other sorts of Can you mitigate impacts by allowing an external structure to be built? 00:56:44
And a more theoretical question is that if. 00:56:54
Significant changes in the. 00:56:58
Does that increase or decrease the value of the housing? 00:57:01
To the existing owners. 00:57:05
Is it, you know, does it increase it? 00:57:08
Dec. 00:57:12
And I guess other opportunities about, you know, with an aging population to how, how can that be managed? You know, you have 00:57:13
people who live in their house that maybe would like to. 00:57:19
Live in a detached structure, so. 00:57:25
If you've aged in your house and you would you say this is too much space, I want to have maybe my kids move into the house and 00:57:29
I'm going to go move into this one bedroom unit that. 00:57:34
More private than an internal unit. 00:57:40
So that's kind of the opportunities that you can create with allowing an external dwelling unit. 00:57:43
With less. 00:57:49
While still mitigating impacts of it. 00:57:51
I guess to Paul's point, though, to say it another word, you want to make sure that there's not a whole bunch of slumlords popping 00:57:55
up. Yeah, I mean, what? What? What? Really? You know, does it change the nature of housing and holiday? 00:58:01
And that. 00:58:08
And that, and if there are four or five of these on my street, is my house value going to go up or down? 00:58:10
Will it go up because someone says, Oh well yeah, you can do an Adu and pay part of your mortgage or that. Or does that make it a 00:58:18
less desirable neighborhood and drive the price down for the rest of the homes? 00:58:25
And you know on the note of ownership as well, when you have an Adu, the you can't have two separate owners. So it's still a 00:58:36
single owner they can rent. 00:58:42
Another person, but the owner would have to live on the site. 00:58:49
That wouldn't change in the code it. 00:58:53
Owner has to live on site in either unit. 00:58:57
But. 00:59:00
So they couldn't have two rentals. Yeah, you wouldn't be able to have two rentals. So you wouldn't rent a house and a tiny house. 00:59:02
So it's still owner controlled? 00:59:09
Can I change the subject for a second? Because there's another issue in here that is troubling me and that's the issue of the 00:59:13
lighting. 00:59:17
And it just looks like you've. 00:59:21
Taken out all of the reference to dark sky compliance and LED lighting and so forth. 00:59:24
Yeah, I think, I think the the current language and the proposed changes it's it wouldn't necessarily be removing everything 00:59:36
that's there. So anything that is there can still remain. 00:59:42
The and especially with lighting, that's something that we could include. 00:59:49
Where it would be external dwelling units that maybe have more of a lighting impact. You definitely want to have dark sky 00:59:54
compliant fixtures, so you could say with an external Adu. 00:59:59
You have to have Dark Sky compliant fixtures. 01:00:05
Other thoughts, Commissioners? 01:00:15
Everybody's excited. They can't wait to add a Adu in their backyard. 01:00:17
I think in. 01:00:21
Strikes a balance between sort of. 01:00:23
Maintaining a neighborhood. 01:00:27
Well. 01:00:29
The Valley is going to get three times denser in the next, you know, whatever. Maybe not three times, but you know, the whole 01:00:31
value is getting denser. Let's put it all in somebody else's city. That, that. 01:00:37
Both unrealistic and maybe irresponsible. So adus to me even if we get. 01:00:46
A lot of them. 01:00:52
Seem like they'll still feel residential as opposed to saying let's build high rises. 01:00:53
And I would be willing to live in an Adu, but I don't want to live in a high rise. I have kids. I want access to a yard so it 01:00:58
feels like. 01:01:02
This is the kind of densification that I want as the resident of holiday. 01:01:07
Umm. 01:01:13
Because I would. I would be willing to live in a house with an Adu. I'd be willing to have an Adu if it were, you know, big 01:01:14
enough. 01:01:16
It seems like that's a nice way to keep it residential, to keep it so that owners are controlling who's in their Adu. 01:01:21
Umm. 01:01:30
While still being responsible and owning the growth that will happen in the in the Valley. 01:01:31
That's a really nice way to put it. I want to put it in another city. 01:01:37
Well I mean I think there's, I think there's space for different kinds of development. I think there are are lots of places that 01:01:44
we should and. 01:01:47
Have high rises, but I think that density itself is is not bad and to put it all somewhere else, I think it makes it less nice 01:01:52
density. 01:01:57
It does bring up one question which ties back to our favorite Planning Commission subject, which is the parking. 01:02:03
Right. I mean, you have these these sheds, these other things that now are accessory dwelling units, but they still have their 01:02:09
existing 1960s one, maybe two car driveway. Where do these new residents park? Right. And looking at some of the code so I could 01:02:17
bring some proposed options, some cities say that your parking for an Adu can't be tandem part. So if you'd like to see something 01:02:24
as specific as that, you could it would have to be, you know? 01:02:32
To the side of existing required garage spaces for. 01:02:40
For a primary structure. So there are ways to be specific about parking requirements for an external Adu. 01:02:43
So when you view an external Adu as. 01:02:50
I guess special privilege in some sense, right? Yes, you can be allowed this use, but there are impacts with that. 01:02:55
So thus with the impacts, we can put more specific requirements relating to those to those impacts. 01:03:03
I really love the idea of dealing with the tandem parking issue. 01:03:11
On the one across from the park and when we had that silly proposal about tandem parking with, you know, who's in front, who's in 01:03:17
back, you know, two different residents arguing over, you know, and waking each other up to go to work in the morning and that 01:03:23
and. 01:03:28
Yeah, I think it's time to address Tandem. 01:03:35
And I can look at that and see what existing code is in other cities on how they are managing that with external ads specifically. 01:03:39
Well, do you need any more feedback or input on this to be able to move forward with something to? 01:03:49
Feel pretty good at 8:45 at night, Yes, I think we're we're good on that. Our next meeting would be the 5th of December so we can 01:03:56
come back. That gives us a couple weeks to have some proposed text. 01:04:02
For these three text amendments. 01:04:09
OK, I had an item that I wanted to ask about. I was looking for Planning Commission dates because I couldn't find my 2023. 01:04:12
Handy dandy calendar. 01:04:23
And. 01:04:25
Couldn't find it anywhere on the city website, which it may be somewhere, but I couldn't find it easily and that brought to my 01:04:26
attention that the Planning Commission page is out of date. 01:04:32
Even more so, because now we have Mr. Barrett. 01:04:39
Who is also not on here, so I think it's time to get this updated and make sure that the calendar is available. 01:04:42
On the website so that when me planning commissioners can't find their meeting schedule. 01:04:54
Actually can somewhere, is that a reasonable? Aye, aye. Would you like a motion because we could do that for you. It's it's not 01:05:01
just the planning departments, it's out of date. Yeah. So yeah, and we are. So the city is updating the website overall right now. 01:05:08
So that is something that staff is working on is updating all the website. 01:05:15
Please make sure we have access to this and we don't have to like go find an agenda somewhere that. Yeah. And then just on the 01:05:24
note of calendars real quick. So thank you for providing the 2024. It was pointed out that in December we have two December nights 01:05:30
and two December 20 thirds on this draft. 01:05:36
There's there's a few months. There's more than that. Oh, there's more. OK, so I I have my circled copy of Dates to fix, so we'll 01:05:42
get those corrected, OK. 01:05:47
Cool. Excel loves different types of numbers, right? 01:05:52
OK, so December 5th is the next planned meeting then? Yes. OK. Could we also get a roster of? 01:05:57