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And this is Commissioner wrote. We'll we'll go ahead and get our work meeting started at 5:37 PM. We have everyone in attendance 00:00:00
except Commissioner Font who's excused and I believe. 00:00:05
We're missing Commissioner Gong. 00:00:11
I don't know if anyone's heard from her, so she might be attending late. 00:00:13
OK. 00:00:19
So with that, we will. 00:00:21
Get started and is a carrier, John, that's going to be presenting these items for us today. 00:00:24
I will be presenting the items. All right, Kerry, kick us off. 00:00:29
All right. 00:00:34
Item number one. Pretty straightforward on this one. This is a existing office building. 00:00:36
Ohh, under one ownership they are converting that to divide each office suite into separate ownership. So that requires a 00:00:43
conversion to condominium plat. 00:00:49
So this is a review of all in one essentially conceptual preliminary final. The final approval can be deferred to staff approval. 00:00:55
Any questions on that one? 00:01:06
And just a simple I'll go ahead, Murray. 00:01:10
I was just going to say to simplify it for me because I'm a simple stupid kind of guy. 00:01:13
Um, they are not doing any kind of building. They're not renovating, changing the structure in any way. They're literally just 00:01:17
doing paperwork so that they can. 00:01:21
Lease or sell rather than lease the units, right. So they do have building permits for each unit because they are doing 00:01:25
renovations or tenant improvements for those individual units. That's all handled under building permit. This is just for the 00:01:32
vertical plat to separate those into individual parcels essentially. 00:01:39
And and they've done all their paperwork, it looks like. And yes, had all the the T's crossed and eyes dotted. And yes, alright, 00:01:47
fantastic. What were you gonna ask Marty? 00:01:51
2nd. 00:02:07
The last one reads all improvements to meet current building code. 00:02:07
Is that it? 00:02:12
Suggested. 00:02:15
Or is that a? 00:02:16
After the fact included. 00:02:17
So that is just handled under their building permits. 00:02:19
That's handled with their building permits. 00:02:24
So when the building official reviewed this application, he just said that. 00:02:27
It's required to meet building code any improvements that they make. 00:02:33
Managed under their building permits. 00:02:39
Why we mentioned the? 00:02:45
Where? 00:02:47
Is that a suggestion that would include that as a condition of business? 00:02:49
It's somewhat yes, because it is included in the checklist. So when they're submitting their application to convert to a 00:02:54
condominium, it's it states on there, but any improvements made to meet building code. So that's just the building official 00:03:01
confirming that all improvements that will be done in the building. 00:03:08
In this in the conversion. 00:03:16
They'll all need the building code. 00:03:19
Above that under the Public Works City Engineer. 00:03:22
Section it says replacement of curb, gutter, sidewalk OK. 00:03:25
Is that a conclusion or just? 00:03:30
Again, something that. 00:03:32
To be down and going forward. 00:03:34
No, it wouldn't need to be done as part of their condo plat. It's. 00:03:36
Just to conclusion that the city engineer made looking at their checklist saying yes, this is fine. 00:03:42
Thanks. 00:03:50
And when anyone goes to make a motion, it's the staff findings that. 00:03:52
We need to bring up. 00:03:56
Not the. 00:03:58
TRC report above that. Is that right? 00:04:00
Right. You're just doing the findings that are in the staff findings under the recommendation, OK. 00:04:03
Perfect. 00:04:08
Any other questions on the first item? 00:04:09
Alright. 00:04:12
Care if you want to take just a second real quick chair? 00:04:13
So if you notice that it's the. So this is the concept, preliminary and final plat all at once. 00:04:16
So. 00:04:22
You can approve them. 00:04:23
And be done or you can. 00:04:25
You know if if the Planning Commission finds that some of them aren't completed. 00:04:27
I don't think that would be the case, but if you did, you could separate those out to. 00:04:32
It's noted. Appreciate that, council if. 00:04:36
There is any concern with approving all three tonight we can. 00:04:39
Reduce that back in whatever stages we feel like need additional. 00:04:43
Oversight to come through us, but it sounds like staff has. 00:04:48
Definitely gone through the. 00:04:52
Motions on this one. 00:04:54
Thank you. 00:04:56
OK. Second item is a zone map amendment. This is a rezone on Westmore Rd. from public to R110. 00:04:57
It's a church property that the church is selling, so the applicant. 00:05:07
Or the property then requires a rezone. 00:05:13
Since the use of a church would be discontinued. 00:05:17
So that is. 00:05:21
The application on that one, Does anyone have any questions on that item? 00:05:23
The first page of the staff report. 00:05:29
Office. 00:05:34
Back from the. 00:05:36
Previous template. 00:05:38
On the second page. 00:05:42
I think it's the. 00:05:46
Second column is grayed out. 00:05:51
Property. 00:05:56
Zoning. 00:05:57
As the property owners only general plan district. 00:05:59
Maybe I'm calling it Ohh. 00:06:02
Right here. 00:06:05
So ohh on the cover sheet. 00:06:08
Ohh yeah. 00:06:12
Sorry. 00:06:13
Yeah, it looks like that was probably just the leftover from the first. 00:06:14
Application just didn't get changed. 00:06:17
Yeah, that's a drop down list. 00:06:19
It's alphabetical order, so I probably slipped and hit PO rather than public. 00:06:22
In public. In public, yeah. Yeah. 00:06:26
Is there any requirements to get that fixed or is that just something you can adjust in the final report? 00:06:31
Yeah, it's just, it's just being as a cover letter. So that shows gives you an opportunity to separate the staff report out. It 00:06:36
doesn't really has no bearing on the application at all, OK. 00:06:41
It's just an administrative thing. 00:06:47
Good call out, Marty. Thank you. 00:06:49
And then this is just defaulting to the R110 zone that it's already in surrounding the area, right? Yes, OK. 00:06:53
Any other questions on? 00:06:59
I had. This is Commissioner Prince. I had a question. 00:07:01
In terms of the streets, Delaware and Westmore W West. 00:07:04
Yes, Westmore. 00:07:10
Did they ever connect? 00:07:12
I am not sure if they did a how long that church has existed there. 00:07:15
It looks like it's been. I mean, that's not a. 00:07:21
Current style, certainly. 00:07:24
Yeah, because it does kind of bulb out like a circle wood. Uh-huh. I just didn't know if that may have existed in that way prior 00:07:28
to the church and built there. 00:07:33
I shouldn't know if that was something that we had information available to us about. OK. But the current property that we're 00:07:39
reviewing tonight is located on Westmore officially, even though it can be accessed on Delaware. You can get to it. Yeah, OK. 00:07:45
There's one question. 00:07:53
Department. 00:07:57
Outside. 00:08:00
Right across the street in an easement between. 00:08:04
Not the one on the corner, but the one next to the one on the corner, I believe, right? 00:08:08
Yeah. 00:08:12
OK. 00:08:14
OK. 00:08:15
OK, ready to move to item 3? This is another zoning map amendment request for a rezone from the R143 zone to R110. 00:08:17
Located on 4980 S and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. 2 neighboring parcels. 00:08:29
These two parcels don't conform to the R143 size. They are currently .55 acres and .7. 00:08:37
0 acres. 00:08:47
Um. 00:08:48
The applicant's intent is to. 00:08:50
With the smaller minimum lot size under the R110 zone to shift some of the property from each of those parcels onto the back 00:08:53
property that fronts onto Cottonwood Drive. 00:09:00
So in order to do that, they would need a. 00:09:09
An R110 zone. 00:09:13
The proposal brings the property line. 00:09:14
So it will follow there's a property to the South side. 00:09:20
That. 00:09:25
One of the properties you can see has that kind of L shape that comes down. 00:09:26
That is the. 00:09:31
Maybe, John, do you want to bring up the assessors map on that that shows the? 00:09:33
That third the South property which isn't in the application. 00:09:41
That property is .40 acres. 00:09:45
The applicants proposal will make. 00:09:48
There are two parcels. 00:09:51
About that same size. 00:09:53
So creating a straight line across. 00:09:56
Their parcel so it takes the jug. 00:09:59
The applicants are David and Stephanie Bywater. 00:10:03
Ohh the. 00:10:06
The South one. 00:10:08
This one. 00:10:10
We can 250-5037 is that Oh oh on South side one to the north John. 00:10:13
Down. 00:10:24
You. 00:10:25
It's this this one. 00:10:26
That one, Yeah. 00:10:28
Zero 41, yeah. 00:10:30
And they're not part of the application, so they're basically. 00:10:36
Go up like that, but the property line being proposed would follow essentially that O 42 and O32 are the impacted properties 00:10:40
besides O 44. Is that correct? Yes. 00:10:46
So that Ohh, sorry go the property that's on the north they access. 00:10:55
Their property through the Holiday Pines PUD. 00:11:01
And the holiday Holiday Pines is zoned as R110. 00:11:06
Right. 00:11:20
Cover. Cover. 00:11:22
1st. 00:11:24
2nd. 00:11:27
Approval. 00:11:31
Drop down to. 00:11:35
Under the General Plan of Bootable Analysis. 00:11:38
There are 1/2. 00:11:42
3/4 paragraphs. 00:11:43
5 paragraphs, the 4th one starts considering the size. 00:11:44
Yes. 00:11:50
And then? 00:11:51
About halfway between that and the adjacent property on the South side. 00:11:54
.4 acres. 00:11:58
Staff believes that the parcels in question could. 00:12:00
Reasonably. 00:12:03
Would be considered. 00:12:05
All within the residential single family. 00:12:06
Stable. 00:12:09
Just as reasonably. 00:12:13
Be considered otherwise? 00:12:15
Or the other. 00:12:19
So that is that circled area on Figure 2. 00:12:20
You can see that the. 00:12:26
Area that. 00:12:29
Is the protected area curves down? 00:12:30
There's not property boundaries on there to make a firm determination with the size of those properties being non conforming to 00:12:36
the R143 zone. That is what that basis was. 00:12:44
Or what that decision was based on to be within the stable zone? 00:12:53
If you wanted to go by the what the zone is. 00:13:02
Then it would. 00:13:08
Involved within likely. 00:13:10
Be more likely to fall within the protected zone. 00:13:12
Or the protected area. 00:13:15
However, it'd be non compliant for the size of homes that are currently in that zone that exists today, right? 00:13:20
See, I don't know that I I when you look at the. 00:13:32
It's the aerial map. 00:13:36
Like the where you pulled up the assessor stuff, John. 00:13:39
When you look at that, you can see a street that corresponds to one of to that. 00:13:42
The image with the protected and the stable and it looks like it would. 00:13:51
I see what you're saying that there's a reasonable. 00:13:57
You could reasonably say it falls within the. 00:14:00
The. 00:14:04
Smaller not the protected, but the stable. 00:14:06
Zone. 00:14:09
If you kind of tried to overlay the two of them together, ohh wow, good job John. Yeah so I believe this one. 00:14:10
They should be labeled. I'm not sure why we don't have labels that is. Actually, that's Cottonwood Lane, Cottonwood. 00:14:17
The curved one that's on the east side of. 00:14:23
Of holiday Blvd. That kind of curves down to the South. That one's Flamingo. 00:14:28
And then the older one that's more toward the bottom is Casto. 00:14:36
I think you could make the case that. 00:14:41
It could fall within the stable zone because of where we're talking about. 00:14:44
OK. 00:14:52
This Commissioner Roach, just for those that weren't here 12 months ago or just shy of when. 00:14:53
The bywaters originally came in. 00:14:59
For. 00:15:02
Approval on the basketball barn that they were building in their backyard. This is essentially adjacent immediately to it and I 00:15:03
believe this is allowing them to kind of put some more buffer around that structure. 00:15:09
Yeah, which? Which? 00:15:16
Sort of prompted the question on my part. 00:15:20
About. 00:15:22
Why it wasn't raised there? 00:15:24
Some incremental creep or what? 00:15:26
Question that's a That's a question we can ask the applicant, but I believe at the time there was some concerns about. 00:15:28
And I could be mistaken on this, but it vaguely memory fading here's. 00:15:36
Accurate. Then I think there was something concerned about the building height. 00:15:41
At that time. 00:15:45
And by pushing out their property line a little bit more, that allows for that additional height without. 00:15:46
Conforming to additional requirements per the quote code. Does that sound right, John? 00:15:51
I mean, yes, I mean you theoretically, yeah, you soon as you're building heights or your lot sizes get larger, buildings get 00:15:59
larger, but accessory buildings are maxed at 20 feet regardless. 00:16:04
If they can move it within the building pad of the. 00:16:10
Of the house. And yeah, they can go up to like 40 feet. 00:16:12
But if it's shoved way far in the back then they regardless of how big their lot size is, it's it. It limit maxes out of 20. 00:16:16
I remember the discussion of the Basketball Barn. I do not remember what we ended up. 00:16:24
Doing. 00:16:30
About. 00:16:31
It was the size. The footprint size was a conditional use permit. 00:16:32
Right. I just didn't remember if that actually gone ahead and built it or not. Yeah, OK, yeah, there was approved, approved it. 00:16:36
So now they're they're coming back and and they want to just basically change some property lines that look to conform. 00:16:44
With the the zones that are there, but we can have that discussion when the applicant comes up. 00:16:51
And they do have an approved building permit for the basketball barn and that's based off of their current lot size OK. 00:16:56
Thank you. I have a question about this one. 00:17:03
I'm related to the Bywater, so I figured I should recuse myself from that, but I don't know if there's like a formal. 00:17:06
Process to do that. 00:17:12
From that specific item. 00:17:15
So we had a planning commissioner, that was. 00:17:17
An architect on a project. 00:17:21
So. 00:17:23
He. 00:17:26
In that situation, when there's a financial relationship, it needs to be done, you know, in writing and it needs to be. But if 00:17:27
there's not a financial relationship and it's a familiar relationship. 00:17:33
You can note it and then I would recommend you recuse yourself, but I don't think you're actually required to but. 00:17:40
If I was advising you, which I am. 00:17:49
It would be noted on the record and then recuse yourself. OK, And I should have asked this earlier in the week or when I when we 00:17:53
first got the packet. 00:17:57
Is there a process for that or do we just say it? 00:18:01
You would just say it. You say, you know, I have a I have a potential conflict of interest on this particular matter. So I'm going 00:18:04
to accuse myself, OK, from any vote on this vote or discussion, that's how I would. 00:18:09
And you would only recuse yourself for item 3. 00:18:14
Yes. 00:18:16
Thank you. 00:18:18
All right, then the. 00:18:21
Any possibility? 00:18:24
State. 00:18:29
Future. 00:18:41
And. 00:18:43
Whatever they proposed for accessory buildings would have to meet standards with zoning. 00:18:52
With an increased property size, there are some changes that would. 00:19:00
That would. 00:19:06
Come about because of that, but it is mostly on lot coverage as a percentage. Setbacks are a percentage just based off of the lot 00:19:07
size. 00:19:11
So the larger the property. 00:19:16
You have larger setbacks that are required. 00:19:19
So by increasing that property size they would have an increase in in setbacks that would be required for any accessory building. 00:19:23
OK. 00:19:35
Any other questions on item number whenever we're on 3/3? 00:19:35
OK. And then finally the. 00:19:41
The the one we're all excited for this evening #4. 00:19:43
All right, so item number four is a rezone request for three properties. 00:19:47
One is at 4437 Butternut Road or Drive. 00:19:54
The other two 2475 E 4500 S. 00:19:59
And 2485 E 4500 S. 00:20:04
Three separate property owners that have joined an application going from R18 is what the the property on Butternut Rd. is zoned 00:20:08
as. The other two properties on 4500 S are zoned as R110. 00:20:16
The proposals to rezone all three as R28. 00:20:24
The R2 aid zone allows for a single family house on. 00:20:29
On 5000 square feet. 00:20:35
Or an attached. 00:20:37
Unit on. 00:20:40
8000 square feet. 00:20:42
This is Commissioner Prince. 00:20:47
I see that in the summary they. 00:20:49
These properties were initially historically zoned as R18. 00:20:52
But. 00:20:57
Now two and three are R110. What did that just happen when holiday was incorporated or just right? 00:20:59
Yes. Was there a reason that it was changed? Likely that most of the properties around that met the R2, the R110 lot size. 00:21:07
There was. 00:21:20
On the county's historical maps, there was a lot of variation in zones. There was little pockets of our two little pockets of R18. 00:21:21
You can see in the in the exhibit there, there's an R210 that's right across the street that is somewhat smaller. 00:21:30
So. 00:21:38
It was. 00:21:39
And maybe John can fill in on some of that rezoning or that zoning process with incorporation, but largely just to create more 00:21:40
consistent zones across larger areas. Historically, R1A, this wasn't an R110 that became an R18. 00:21:48
Historically, our 1/8 when we incorporated, we rezoned A majority of the city. 00:21:57
To closely resemble what the actual land use was. 00:22:02
In this case, because these are a little bit larger, lots R110. 00:22:05
Was selected for this area. 00:22:09
Much larger lots than R18 were. 00:22:13
So. 00:22:16
That's what the council at the time selected the zone scheme for this neighborhood to be R110. 00:22:17
Give us a. 00:22:26
3. 00:22:26
Edu. 00:22:28
Next year. 00:22:30
Right. 00:22:32
Um, so and then a larger discussion around a single family zone versus an R2 zone as we're. 00:22:33
Looking to rezone up to a R2R2. Zoning would allow for separate two separate units or however many dwelling units would be allowed 00:22:40
on a parcel based off of its size. 00:22:47
To be legally rentable. 00:22:53
The difference with an Adu, an internal Adu is rentable. 00:22:57
If the property owner lives on site. 00:23:03
An external Edu in order to be rentable under the current code. 00:23:06
Has to be located on a lot that is twice the size as the minimum lot size in the zone. 00:23:11
So if you have a 10,000 square foot property in an R10R110 zone and wanted to build a detached. 00:23:18
Accessory dwelling unit. You would not be able to rent that accessory dwelling unit because it's not on a parcel That's twice. 00:23:28
The size that's required for the for the zone. 00:23:36
So that's the difference with. 00:23:39
Between an internal accessory dwelling unit and what a property owner can do with an internal unit. 00:23:42
Versus an external dwelling unit, it's. 00:23:48
Much more difficult for a property owner to rent an external dwelling unit than an internal. 00:23:51
And even if the property owner lived on site. 00:23:57
They would for an external. They would still need to meet that requirement, Is that right? 00:24:01
So that's where an R2 zone would be more favorable because they could rent an external dwelling unit. 00:24:07
If they meet the lot size requirements for for that. 00:24:17
As long as it has 5000 square feet in an R28, for example, it would require. 00:24:20
To 10,000 square feet, yes. Yeah. Yeah. 00:24:26
Because it would be two separate dwelling units detached from each other. 00:24:30
In our packet we've got a future land use map. 00:24:36
Which the date I've. 00:24:40
When I looked it up I had 2000 on it and. 00:24:42
Or 2020, excuse me. 00:24:45
Alright. 00:24:48
Was that when this particular area was changed to the map we have, or was that a previous decision to? 00:24:49
2020. 00:24:57
Green now. 00:24:59
John, can I defer that question to you? Are you talking about the general plan map? 00:25:01
Yeah, the future land use map at 2.3 that we have in the packet. 00:25:05
Yeah, that's from the general plan, Yeah. So that that general plan map has had several iterations to it, but. 00:25:10
This area really hasn't changed. 00:25:17
In long raised land use. 00:25:19
Since 2009. 00:25:21
OK, so it's been there for a long time, but this is a the idea has been around at least till 2000 and 2010. 00:25:23
And in looking at that map. 00:25:30
It doesn't be. Didn't appear to be done with precision. 00:25:33
In the sense that it identified which lots. 00:25:37
Could or could not. 00:25:40
No. 00:25:42
General plans usually don't OK. They're more of a. 00:25:43
Sort of a blurry bubble chart type idea. 00:25:47
The one consistent thing I noticed Tell me if I'm wrong, but it's always on. 00:25:51
Major roads. 00:25:57
I think 66 feet is the holiday definition of a major Rd. 00:25:58
Major Rd. being a collectors, yes IS is 60 foot wide or wider. 00:26:05
OK. 00:26:09
Kerry, John, I don't think you've seen an application where. 00:26:13
Three property owners. 00:26:16
Consolidated. 00:26:17
Feedback on? 00:26:18
Presume that we've. 00:26:20
Derivative. 00:26:21
Granted. 00:26:23
Or. 00:26:25
Or is there an all or all or nothing? No, it's one application and just to remind on a rezone, the Planning Commission is making a 00:26:29
recommendation to the City Council. 00:26:33
Is a legislative, so the Council has to actually take this up, so. 00:26:38
But no, because it's a single application, it's an all or nothing. You either recommend all three. 00:26:42
The recommendation? 00:26:47
Say that again, even though we're just making a recommendation. 00:26:50
Yeah, yeah, I mean. 00:26:53
Yeah, you make a recommendation to all of it, I mean. 00:26:54
Yeah, it's one application, so you take it as one. 00:26:57
One decision. 00:27:01
Any other questions on item 4? 00:27:06
All right. 00:27:11
With that, I think we can. 00:27:12
Conclude our work meeting and unless anyone on the Commission needs a quick moment to. 00:27:14
Rest. 00:27:20
A quick moment, we will take a 2 minute break then before we get started with our official meeting. 00:27:22
That's right. 00:27:29
It's OK. 00:27:34
Uh. 00:27:35
Alright. 00:27:36
Yeah. 00:27:37
Sugar. Sugar. 00:27:39
They're closed as far as. 00:30:20
Yeah. 00:31:11
All right. 00:31:39
Everybody, OK? This is Commissioner Roach. 00:31:40
I'd like to. 00:31:44
I will see you. 00:31:46
Again. 00:31:47
Call the. 00:31:49
Meeting of our Planning Commission, September 19th, 2023 to order. 00:31:51
And we have 5 different items on our agenda tonight. 00:31:56
We have a. 00:32:01
Subdivide and then we have three zone amendments and then approval of minutes. 00:32:04
And before we get started with our meeting, I've asked Commissioner Bilinsky to. 00:32:09
Quickly read for us the kind of rules of the road that we follow as the Planning Commission. It's a requirement at the start of 00:32:14
all meetings. So with that if you would please. 00:32:18
I think you the City of Holiday Planning Commission. 00:32:22
Is a volunteer citizen board. 00:32:26
Whose function is to review land uses, plans and other special studies, make recommendation to the City Council on proposed zoning 00:32:28
maps. 00:32:33
An ordinance changes and approve conditional use. 00:32:37
And subdivisions. 00:32:42
The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications. 00:32:43
Rather acts on applications as they are submitted. 00:32:48
Commissioners do not meet with applicants except for at publicly noticed meetings. 00:32:51
Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda where the location the nature of the neighborhood. 00:32:57
Existing structures and uses related to the proposed changes are noted. 00:33:03
Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from professional planning staff. 00:33:08
The city's general plan, zoning ordinances and other reports by all verbal and written comments. 00:33:14
And by evidence submitted, all of which are a part of the public record. 00:33:22
Excellent. Thank you very much for that. I appreciate it. 00:33:27
And so with that, the first item that we have on our agenda tonight is the Highland 4040, excuse me, 4141 office condominium 00:33:30
subdivision. 00:33:35
And I'd like to ask Carrie Marsh to go ahead and give us a report on that, if she would. 00:33:40
Thank you, Commissioner Roach. 00:33:50
Presenting on. 00:33:52
The first item Highland 4141 office condominiums. 00:33:54
This is a subdivision, converting an existing office use from a single ownership into multiple ownerships. 00:33:59
For each office suite. 00:34:10
This requires a vertical plat to be recorded at Salt Lake County. 00:34:12
To create those 12 individual units from the existing so they can be individually owned. 00:34:19
Um. 00:34:26
The application has been reviewed by the Technical Review committee and the comments from each department has been noted in the 00:34:27
staff report. 00:34:31
And the tiers's recommendation is that the Commission hold the required planning or? 00:34:35
They're required public hearing and consider any comments presented by the public. 00:34:41
Staff has found that all of the required elements have been submitted and the application's been complete. 00:34:47
The TRC can therefore recommend that the Commission approve the preliminary subdivision plat as well as the, and then defer the 00:34:55
final plat to staff approval. 00:35:00
I will have the applicant come up and they can talk about the their application in more detail and answer any questions that the 00:35:07
Commission may have. 00:35:12
Thank you very much. And with that, do we have the applicant here tonight? 00:35:17
Hi, I'm Mike McFarland with Stout Building Contractors. I'm the project manager. 00:35:32
Performing some of the remodels that are under building permit already. 00:35:37
Mike, could I just ask you to give us your address, please? My address is 245 N Vine Street. 00:35:40
#102. 00:35:46
Salt Lake City. 00:35:47
84103 Excellent. Thank you. 00:35:49
All right. And if you want to, just give us a quick. 00:35:53
Version of what? Anything that you want to add to staff's report on. 00:35:57
What we're doing with this? 00:36:02
Or what you're applying for tonight. Yeah, as as Kerry mentioned, it's a an existing single owner office space. 00:36:04
Being converted into condominium spaces with some common areas. 00:36:11
That include the restrooms entrance. 00:36:15
Upgrades to the ADA access to the building. 00:36:18
And then each plat would be sold. 00:36:23
And another building permit would be required in order for those. 00:36:26
New new buyers to. 00:36:31
Remodel for their needs and. 00:36:33
Those upgrades for that? 00:36:37
So currently the project is doing the common spaces. 00:36:40
Upgrades to those which include the hallways. 00:36:44
Entrance entrances and emergency stair exits. 00:36:48
Upgrades to the railings and flooring for the common areas. 00:36:53
As well as. 00:36:57
New Windows, new facade to the building to modernize that. 00:36:58
Thank you. 00:37:04
Any questions from the commissioners? From the for the applicant? 00:37:05
OK. I think we can have you sit down. Thank you. 00:37:09
With that, we'll go ahead and open the public meeting. Any members of the public that are here to speak on this particular 00:37:12
application tonight or welcome to come up. 00:37:17
Do we have anyone here tonight that wishes to make a comment on this? 00:37:23
OK. 00:37:29
And does not look like we have anyone here tonight that wishes to speak on that. So with that, we'll go ahead and close the public 00:37:30
meeting. 00:37:33
And Commissioners, do we have any discussion on any of the? 00:37:37
Information that's been presented to us on this application. 00:37:43
Takes. 00:37:50
Good morning. 00:37:50
Mission Briggs. 00:37:51
I I think we're quite familiar with this application now and I don't have any concerns or questions and and and ready to make a 00:37:53
motion unless others have comments. 00:37:58
I think you're all set. Go ahead. 00:38:05
Commissioner Banks moves to approve. 00:38:08
The concept and preliminary plan. 00:38:11
Submitted by the applicant. 00:38:14
For the Highland 4141 office condominiums. 00:38:16
On. 00:38:20
4141 S Highland Drive. 00:38:22
Based on the. 00:38:25
Following six. 00:38:26
Bindings Commissioner Banks, did you want to approve the final plat as well? I'll defer that. We'll defer that for final 00:38:28
consideration after. 00:38:32
Or for the for the combined. 00:38:37
And the first of those six conditions being? 00:38:40
That the development details required for a preliminary and final site plan have been submitted and reviewed by the TRC. 00:38:43
The development complies with the regulations within the professional office zone of the city. 00:38:51
The development complies with the general plan. 00:38:58
4th. 00:39:01
The required submittals for conceptual and preliminary subdivision development have been provided where applicable and have been 00:39:02
found to be complete and acceptable. 00:39:07
5. 00:39:12
Fire access has been approved by the. 00:39:14
UEFA And lastly, 6 separate utility meters and shutoffs for each unit are not required. 00:39:17
In addition, I would also move. 00:39:25
That within one year and in accordance with the applicable ordinance to defer the administrative review and approval of the final 00:39:28
plat. 00:39:32
By the. 00:39:38
Community and Economic Development Director following a positive written recommendation from the DRC. 00:39:40
Commissioner Vichinsky, I second that motion. 00:39:48
OK, we have a motion and a second. With that we will call for a vote. Commissioner Gong. 00:39:52
Aye. 00:39:58
Commissioner Cunningham? Aye, aye. 00:39:59
Prince I thanks aye. And Commissioner Roach votes aye, so it is unanimous. 00:40:02
And. 00:40:12
You're all set. 00:40:13
Right. 00:40:18
Thank you very much. 00:40:18
That moves us to item number two on our agenda, which is a zone map amendment. 00:40:21
Rezoning it from. 00:40:28
P for public, is that right? Make sure I'm saying that right. OK. P for public space to an R110 at the property located at 4930 S 00:40:30
Westmore Road. And with that we will ask Carrie to come back up and provide some information and details on this. 00:40:37
Thank you, Commissioner Roach. 00:40:48
This application is for property located at 4930 S Westmore Rd. It is currently zoned as a public zone for its use as a church. 00:40:50
The applicant is requesting A rezone to R110 which matches this surrounding neighborhood. 00:40:58
The use of the church is being discontinued and so in order to facilitate development I would need to be rezoned out of a public 00:41:08
zone. 00:41:13
And. 00:41:18
It's 2.88 acres and. 00:41:20
The. 00:41:25
R110 zone requires a minimum lot size of 10,000 square feet. 00:41:26
The TRC has reviewed the rezone proposal and finds that it meets the. 00:41:31
The goals of the General Plan and staff is in favour of this application and. 00:41:37
That it moves from a public zone to R110. The applicant can come up and present their application and answer any questions that 00:41:45
the Commission may have. 00:41:50
Excellent. Thank you. And at this time we'd like to invite the applicant or their representative to come up. 00:41:55
And if you would, please state your name and your address for us. 00:42:01
My name is Benjamin Wheat. Address is 1214 E Vine St. Murray, UT. 00:42:10
Thank you. 00:42:15
And Benjamin, if you would be kind enough to just provide us any additional details that you think would be relevant for the 00:42:16
Commission in reviewing this, that you want to add additionally to what staff has presented? 00:42:20
No. The application is to, like Carry said, rezone it from its current use of the public down to an R110, which is all of the 00:42:26
surrounding. 00:42:30
Zones on all sides and so. 00:42:36
Pretty straightforward. 00:42:40
OK. 00:42:41
And Commissioners, any questions for the applicant at this time? 00:42:42
OK. That will go ahead and have your seat. Thank you. 00:42:46
And with that, we'll go ahead and open up our public meeting. As a reminder, before anyone comes up, we would ask that you keep 00:42:49
the. 00:42:54
Comments brief and to the applicable. 00:42:59
Requirements of a rezone request and take no longer than 3 minutes. And with that, are there any members of the public here today 00:43:04
that wish to make a comment on this property? 00:43:09
And if you would, please state your name and address. 00:43:22
My name is Harold Bateman. I live at 1694 Bunker Hill Rd. 00:43:27
And my question is, we've been told that there would be 9 separate individual lots. I just wanted to confirm that's still a case? 00:43:32
Staff is that something that we can confirm what would fit in there? 00:43:46
So the density on the property is determined by the property size. 00:43:51
And now the analysis for the size of the property is that it can accommodate up to 12. 00:43:57
Units that is dependent on or lots it's dependent on. 00:44:04
Road area that's removed from that, so that might go down to 11, but that would be the maximum amount of. 00:44:10
Units allowed. 00:44:17
So at this time we're entertaining with Mr. White or Wheat and he told us it would be 9 lots. Can he confirm that here in this 00:44:19
meeting? 00:44:24
We we can ask the applicant that I'm not sure is that something that is pertaining to the Commission can certainly ask if that's 00:44:31
the case but it's not necessarily binding it. The the rezone is the rezone is just the first stage right and then after that it. 00:44:39
Becomes, you know, depending on what the. 00:44:48
What's submitted from from the applicant on the next phase? Right, So OK. 00:44:51
Thank you. 00:44:54
All right. Thank you, Mr. Bateman. Were there any other public comments at this time? 00:44:56
OK. 00:45:03
And with that, then we'll go ahead and close the public meeting. 00:45:04
And Commissioners, is there any discussion or any questions to redirect to staff before we entertain a motion on this? 00:45:07
Just to comment, I think the question about how many lots is an important one for the future. 00:45:16
But since it's being rezoned in the same zoning as the surrounding neighborhoods, it should have the same feel, you know, the same 00:45:21
sort of character and feel as the surrounding neighborhood. Is that correct? 00:45:26
OK. 00:45:33
Any other questions or comments? 00:45:37
Is anyone prepared at this time to make a motion? 00:45:40
This is Commissioner Prince, I'd like to make a motion. 00:45:44
That we forward a positive recommendation to the City Council to approve an application from Benjamin Wheat. 00:45:47
To amend the holiday zoning map for 2.88 acres of land located at 4930 S Westmore Rd. From Public Zone to R110. 00:45:55
Based on the following findings. 00:46:07
The proposed zone amendment is consistent with the goals, objectives and policies of the General Plan of the City of Holiday. 00:46:09
The proposed amendment is harmonious with the overall character of existing development in the vicinity. 00:46:17
The proposed amendment is not foreseen to adversely affect a budding properties. 00:46:23
An adequate facilities and services exist and will be part of any future subdivision. 00:46:28
That is proposed after the amendment. 00:46:34
Marty Banks seconds the motion. 00:46:36
All right, we have a motion and a second. With that we will call for a vote starting to my right, Commissioner Gong. 00:46:38
Commissioner Cunningham, Aye, Machinsky. 00:46:45
Prince aye, thanks aye. And Commissioner Roach votes aye, making it a unanimous in favour for the recommendation. 00:46:49
Thank you very much. 00:46:56
All right. 00:47:01
We have another zone amendment as item number three, this time from an R143 to an R110. 00:47:02
And we will once again ask the. 00:47:11
City staff. 00:47:14
Representative to come up and give us a report on this. 00:47:16
Thank you Commissioner Roach. This zoning request amendment is for property located at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. 00:47:24
The zoning request is to go from R143. 00:47:36
Zoning going from R143 to R110. 00:47:46
The properties. 00:47:50
It's 2 adjacent parcels. 00:47:52
4980 the property size is .70 acres and 4990 is .55 acres. 00:47:55
The applicants are seeking to rezone the two properties from R143, which has a minimum lot size of 1 acre, to the R110 zone, which 00:48:03
has a minimum lot size of 10,000 square feet. 00:48:08
Currently both properties are non conforming to their existing zone. 00:48:15
The applicant intends to rezone in order to adjust a property line boundary between a neighbouring property on Cottonwood Blvd. 00:48:20
Umm. 00:48:30
The general plan refers to this area as a residential low density, stable. 00:48:32
It is on a boundary of a protected area. 00:48:38
The properties directly to the north of the. 00:48:42
4980 parcel is zoned as R110, so these two properties about that R110 zone. 00:48:46
Um. 00:48:54
The low density residential stable zone does support rezoning for unclaimed density of it's not in. 00:48:55
Foreseeing that any additional density would be added with this zone change. 00:49:04
The technical review committee recommends. 00:49:11
That the rezoning request be forwarded with a +2 City Council. 00:49:15
Based off of. 00:49:23
The findings in the General Plan. 00:49:25
And the applicants are invited to come up and present their application and answer any questions and then move to a public 00:49:27
hearing. 00:49:32
Thank you very much, Kerry. And with that, we'd like to invite the applicant to come up and provide any additional insights on 00:49:36
this or representative thereof. If you would, please state your name and address. 00:49:41
Yes, my name is Brian Hebden. I'm the architect for the Bywaters. My offices are located at 740 E 3900 S in Mill Creek, Utah. 00:49:48
So we were rezoning this as part of just sort of a grander opportunity for them to just have. 00:49:55
The ability to be able to add a detached structure in the back of the property, so we'd be able to. 00:50:01
Move a lot line in the future if they wanted to be able to do that. So that's really the. 00:50:05
Purpose of it as well as these two laws are currently nonconforming, so we'd be moving them into a conforming property. 00:50:10
In which the lots to the north and to the east. 00:50:16
Oh, sorry about that. OK. So I was just saying that these two properties currently do not conform to the zone in which they 00:50:20
reside. They're grandfathered in. However, our ultimate goal is to allow for them to have a little bit of flexibility if they want 00:50:26
to be able to build a future detached structure in their backyard property, which we would take a little bit of property from one 00:50:32
or two of these or both of these properties to add to their current existing properties they own. 00:50:39
These properties plus the one that currently sitting on. 00:50:45
Commissioner Prince, just a brief question so you'd be taking. 00:50:49
Land from these existing two lots on holiday Blvd. to add to a property that the addresses on Cottonwood Lane correct for 00:50:54
additional yes having the opportunity to do that and we're currently doing some studies right now to do that. 00:51:02
And even with removal of it, they would maintain the allowable size restriction of that R110 zone. 00:51:13
And does the Commissioner Cunningham does the. 00:51:21
Conceptual plan that you're talking about with another another building. 00:51:25
Will that impinge on the protected area there at all? 00:51:30
I do not believe it would impinge on that. 00:51:34
Any other questions for the applicant? 00:51:39
This is Commissioner Roach. I have one question just to clarify. So the applicant had come or the the property owner had come 00:51:43
before us just shy of a year ago in terms of what was dubbed a basketball barn. Would this additional land, the additional 00:51:48
structure you're talking about, is this in addition to no, that would be relocating it from that property and putting it into 00:51:53
these new? 00:51:58
Parcels. So that that's the reason why we're doing, we're moving it off of that particular property which would really become too 00:52:04
dense in the backyard of that area. So that's why we're wanting to move it into. 00:52:09
Taking some land from these two current properties and putting it into their yard rather than on a different property. 00:52:14
That makes sense. Hopefully that was clear. 00:52:20
Go ahead, Commissioner. Well, so would does that mean that you'll be coming back to us with a new proposal regarding the 00:52:24
Basketball Barn in a new location? Is that what I just heard? It shouldn't have to because by adding this to that property, there 00:52:29
wouldn't have to be any. We would be able to maintain proper setbacks, height restrictions and all that. So this gives us a much 00:52:35
more greater flexibility so that there is no variance as a request for heights or anything like that. That would be the ultimate 00:52:41
goal. 00:52:46
The whole port. 00:52:52
Because that was the reason why it was brought last time, was the height request. 00:52:54
And with what I recall as originally approved back in, I want to say November last year, I know there was some concerns about 00:52:59
trees and the the tree ordinance with this rezone, it looks like it's a fairly wooded area. 00:53:06
They're back on these two properties. 00:53:13
That impact what was approved back then as far as the tree ordinance preservation and that's a question either for you or city 00:53:16
staff. 00:53:21
So these are the majority of the trees back. There are quite small caliper trees. They're more like scrub oak styles trees, and 00:53:27
it's part of their Grander Re landscaping. They would be adding more foliage to their current backyard as well, and then 00:53:32
preserving the foliage that's in the original proposed location. We'll be able to maintain all that foliage, if not add additional 00:53:38
foliage there as well. 00:53:44
OK. 00:53:50
Can I follow up, having not been on the Commission when that earlier discussion happened? 00:53:51
Could you tell me what a basketball barn is and whether it has any? Right. So a basketball ball is used. Yeah. No, not a 00:53:56
commercial use. Absolutely not. So this is essentially is a space in which they'd be able to play. 00:54:02
With their family, basketball, pickleball, you know have some fun spaces in the back there as well as if. 00:54:09
They wanted to have wedding reception or something like that for family members to come in and do it. No, it is not a. 00:54:15
Nobody's buying passes. Nobody's buying anything like this. This is just purely for personal use. 00:54:21
And then the follow up to that and so if you move the location from what was previously approved. 00:54:27
Which this rezone would allow the lot lines to move. 00:54:33
Will they have any potential impact on neighbors in terms of the closeness of the noise or it's actually further away from more 00:54:39
neighbors than anything so? 00:54:43
Adds it to a larger piece of parcel, but currently the original parcel location was a small and partial parcel. Their current 00:54:50
parcel that they own right now. By allowing and adding more land to their current parcel, it gives more flexibility, gives more 00:54:55
privacy as well as. 00:55:01
And there's really not going to be much noise at all with it, right? Because it's all an interior sports score. 00:55:06
It wouldn't be an exterior, it would be all inside a building. 00:55:12
This Commissioner Prince, and this question may be better directed to city staff. 00:55:16
Tonight, what we are being asked to consider is the zone amendment for the two properties. 00:55:22
Any issue with moving a lot line is not. 00:55:28
Under it is not before the Commission tonight. 00:55:34
But it's interesting. OK. Thank you. 00:55:37
And it does subway into the. 00:55:40
Impacts that it would have and considering the rezoning request. 00:55:44
So. 00:55:48
Excellent questions. Any other questions for the applicant at this time? 00:55:49
No. 00:55:53
What's that? OK, I think we're good to go ahead. Thank you. Appreciate it. And with that, we will open the public comment or 00:55:55
public meeting portion. 00:55:58
I know that there was one comment that was submitted right at the beginning of the meeting, and I believe the gentleman's here if 00:56:03
he wants to come up. If you would, please state your name and address for the record. 00:56:08
My name is John Crandall at 4956 Holiday Pines. I live in the PUD just adjacent to 49804980 shares of Rd. with the Holiday Pines 00:56:15
PUD. My day job is I'm an investment banker, Andrea Tax-exempt Bonds, so I've spent a lot of time in front of cities throughout 00:56:23
the state, but I've spent very little time with the P&Z, so. 00:56:31
My expertise is definitely not in planning and zoning. 00:56:39
But there are a couple things that. 00:56:43
I am concerned about is if the zone change occurs and there isn't a property line readjustment. 00:56:45
Then there could be how many homes built on these two parcels. 00:56:52
If I understand it correctly, it's going to be the square feet basically divided by 10,000, so you're talking. 00:56:56
Maybe three homes on the first parcel. 00:57:03
And then? 00:57:06
Through Yourself Homes on the 2nd Parcel based on the. 00:57:07
1. 00:57:12
Zoning, Is that correct? 00:57:13
That's a great question. Let's city staff if you want to refer to or answer that. 00:57:15
Yes. So with the 10,000 square foot lot minimum size rezoning would. 00:57:21
Um. 00:57:28
Make that .70 part parcel that's on the South side potentially could be subdivided into 3. 00:57:30
And the one on the north? 00:57:38
Being sized at 23,000 square feet could be divided into two. 00:57:41
And so since that's, you know it's a step process, you have to look at the rezone now and then maybe there is a rebound or there 00:57:47
maybe there's not. 00:57:50
Sewer is a real problem in this area. The 4980 is connected to the PUD sewer right now. 00:57:55
Because that home was a septic system. 00:58:01
And so for the the. 00:58:04
The 4980 house is connected to the PUD sewer system. 00:58:08
And that's a holding tank pump system because it's below grade at Holiday Blvd. So it's, I can tell you that it's, it's not a 00:58:13
perfected system. It's something that is expensive and causes problems and no one wants to have problems with their sewer, but 00:58:19
that does happen. 00:58:24
Occasionally. 00:58:30
I'm not sure if the house to the South of it. 00:58:32
Is on what kind of system, but if there is a septic field like 4980 used to have? 00:58:35
Then, you know, how far does that septic go West? 00:58:41
And you certainly wouldn't want to divide property that divides a septic system onto someone else's parcel at some point in the 00:58:45
future. I'm sure staff has looked into that, but that is a question that should be looked into. 00:58:51
So my concern is really I really don't have a lot of concern other than the 4980 if there is a A2 parcel building lot built there, 00:58:59
that's going to cause problems for the R PUD with regard to the sewer system. 00:59:05
All right. Thank you very much, John. Appreciate it. And just to clarify if there was a subdivide application. 00:59:13
That would go back through the city. That's not what's being considered tonight, correct? 00:59:20
Right. So a rezone is what is being considered tonight. Subdivision would be a separate public hearing, a separate process, 00:59:25
correct. Thank you. And at this time? 00:59:30
There's no increase in density. 00:59:36
From what's already existing. 00:59:38
With the rezone, but it does open the door for future. 00:59:40
Changes to that based on the lot size, which again would have to go back through city staff. 00:59:44
Chair one other comment. So. 00:59:50
The challenge what they're what they're planning to do. You have a legal nonconforming situation. So in order for them to do a lot 00:59:53
line adjustment, they have to bring. 00:59:57
Because they're making a change, they have to bring those lots into conformity with something. 01:00:01
And their proposed the proposed amount of property that they're taking. 01:00:05
From the other two and adding it to the Cottonwood. 01:00:10
Drive property. 01:00:13
Necessitates. 01:00:15
A zone change. 01:00:17
Right. So in order to accomplish their ultimate goal of. 01:00:18
You know of the lot line adjustment, which doesn't come before the Planning Commission, but in order to do that you have to get it 01:00:22
to a zone that is current and that fits with those. 01:00:26
And the closest one. 01:00:31
That still meets with those minimums is the R110. 01:00:33
So we looked at the R123. 01:00:36
And it just didn't have enough property on the one to to meet that level. 01:00:38
And it was consistent with and there's not a 123 around there, it's forward 43 or it's R110. 01:00:42
So that's. 01:00:49
That's kind of the way we got to this point. 01:00:49
Excellent. Appreciate the clarification. 01:00:52
And with that, is there any other public comments on this property this evening? 01:00:55
OK. With that, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing. And commissioners, any questions or discussion? 01:01:01
I just want to disclose a familial connection. Stephanie is my cousin. 01:01:08
So I'll recuse myself from the discussion and the voting. 01:01:14
Excellent. 01:01:18
I appreciate that. 01:01:19
Commissioners, any other questions? Comments. 01:01:21
Alrighty with that if anyone's prepared to make a motion if I could. 01:01:25
Just explore in my mind. 01:01:30
None of the representations today are legally binding on the property owner. 01:01:34
About what their future intentions are. 01:01:39
But from our standpoint. 01:01:43
And neither is, neither is. I mean you're the this is step one of the rezone process from Planning Commission. You make a 01:01:46
recommendation, right? They have to go before the City Council to ultimately gain approval there before there is an actual zone 01:01:50
change, right? 01:01:54
And. 01:01:59
So. 01:02:01
The reason they want to do it? 01:02:03
As long as a reason is. 01:02:05
To bring the nonconforming. 01:02:08
Or. 01:02:10
Lots into compliance is legally sufficient. 01:02:12
Is anyone in prepared to make a motion on this? 01:02:23
Commissioner Wilchinski and we'll make a motion to forward a recommendation to the City Council. 01:02:27
To approve an application by Stephanie and David Bywater to amend the holiday zoning map. 01:02:33
4.55 and point. 01:02:39
17 acres of land. 01:02:41
Located at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. 01:02:43
From R143 to R110 based upon the following findings. 01:02:48
The proposed own amendment is consistent with the goals, objectives and policies of the General Plan. The proposed zone amendment 01:02:54
is harmonious with the overall character of existing development in the vicinity. 01:03:00
The proposed zone amendment does not substantially affect a budding properties. 01:03:07
The proposed facilities and services are adequate for the zone amendment. 01:03:12
This is Commissioner Prince. I'll second that motion. All right, we have a motion and it has been seconded. 01:03:18
With that, we will call for a vote then Commissioner Cunningham. 01:03:24
Aye. 01:03:28
Commissioner Buchinsky. 01:03:29
Commissioner Prince aye, Commissioner Banks aye. And Commissioner Roche votes aye, So the favorable recommendation passes 01:03:31
unanimously. 01:03:35
Thank you very much. 01:03:41
And before we get into the 4th item on the agenda this evening, which I suspect there's still several members of the public that 01:03:48
wish to comment on, I'm just anticipating could be wrong, Does anyone need a quick two-minute recess before we move into that? 01:03:56
OK. 01:04:05
Just figured I'd check. All right. So with that we will move into the. 01:04:05
Next item. 01:04:10
And that is the zone amendment from. 01:04:11
Or 18 to R28 located at Butternut. And with that we will ask city staff to come up and give us a report on that. 01:04:15
Thank you, Commissioner Roach. 01:04:28
This application for a zone map amendment is located at. 01:04:30
OR involves properties at 4437 S, Butternut at 2475 E, 4500 S and 2485 E 4500 South. It's an application being brought by the 01:04:35
three individual property owners together in one application. 01:04:44
They are proposing to change the zone from R18 which is the zone for the property on 4437 S butternut and R110 which is the zone 01:04:53
on the. 01:04:59
Two properties on 4500 S. 01:05:06
The the request is to change the zone for all three of those properties to R28. 01:05:09
And. 01:05:15
The properties are located on 4500 S It is a narrow 20 foot wide. 01:05:17
Access Rd. 01:05:24
I guess the. 01:05:26
Actual Rd. is labeled on maps as 4770. 01:05:28
444470 01:05:33
um. 01:05:35
The. 01:05:37
The intent of the property owners is to either utilize existing structures or dwelling units, or to be able to create an 01:05:40
additional dwelling unit on their individual properties. 01:05:46
The maximum amount of additional dwelling units that could be gained by this rezone is 5. 01:05:53
There is within the. 01:06:02
Restrictions would apply for each property based off of attached units or detached units, each of those requiring either A6000 or, 01:06:04
sorry, 5000 square feet for a detached unit. 01:06:11
Per unit and 4000 square feet for an attached unit per unit. 01:06:18
Of each. 01:06:23
This is Commissioner Prince. I'm going to interrupt and just ask one clarifying question. 01:06:24
There are currently 3. 01:06:29
Properties with three structures. 01:06:32
Right. 01:06:35
One of which has a. 01:06:36
Unit in their. 01:06:38
Basement. The garage. 01:06:40
Right, so there would be a maximum of. 01:06:41
Two additional properties that could be added. 01:06:44
Right, overall, when considering this group of three lots. So it's based off of the size of each property, looking at the property 01:06:48
size for the property on butternut. 01:06:55
Their existing lot size would not enable an additional unit to be added unless they increase their property size. 01:07:02
Or attached that dwelling unit that's underneath their garage in some way. 01:07:12
So that is just based off of the size of that property. So there are some. 01:07:17
Additional adjustments that would have to be made in order for that. 01:07:23
Unit that's underneath the garage to be legally rentable. 01:07:27
The middle property. 01:07:32
Is. 01:07:35
.4 acres I believe are around .4 acres. 01:07:36
More options there where they could do either two separate. 01:07:41
Attached units, so total of 4 units there. Or they could do a single family unit and to attach units. 01:07:46
The property size then enables just different configurations. 01:07:54
Or options for them. 01:07:58
Maximum of four units on that property. 01:08:00
The final property at 2485. 01:08:04
Would be eligible for one more single family unit being added. 01:08:10
Thank you. 01:08:15
Within the general plan, these properties are identified in an area that. 01:08:18
That is suggested for rezone 2A2 family zone. 01:08:27
This area also would need a moderate income housing goal and strategy. There is a bus stop that is located on this same. 01:08:31
Or on the corner of 45th South. 01:08:43
And Butternut Rd. So this is along a transit corridor. 01:08:46
So enabling a rezone on a on a transit corridor meets a moderate income housing strategy. 01:08:51
The. 01:08:59
Technical Review committee did review the plan. One concern is with the narrow Rd. that's between the park and the properties. 01:09:01
Um. 01:09:11
The additional units would not cause a increased amount of traffic beyond. 01:09:12
And it would be negligible. 01:09:19
The. 01:09:22
Roadway would still be able to be used for by the neighbors for cross traffic. They most area or most neighbors in the area use 01:09:24
that roadway to go between Wander Lane and Butternut Rd. 01:09:31
The parking would all be managed on site if any additional units are added and there is no parking on the park side of that road. 01:09:39
Most parking for that park should occur on 45th South, where there is a. 01:09:48
Large area for parking in the shoulder. 01:09:53
The technical Review Committee and staff recommend that this application be forwarded with a positive recommendation for City 01:09:56
Council. 01:09:59
And we'll have the applicant come and discuss their application and answer any questions. 01:10:04
Thank you. And with that, because there are three different applicants as there are representative for all three. Or will all 01:10:11
three be coming up? 01:10:15
Is 1 applicant that is representing all three. And another note on this one as well is that there are additional public comments 01:10:20
that were included in a packet that each of you received just so that you. 01:10:27
Ensure that you're reviewing those and then they will be added to the public record. They don't need to be read in, but they will 01:10:33
be part of the public record. 01:10:37
Excellent. Thank you very much. And with that, we'll go ahead and ask the representative to come up and state name and address 01:10:40
please. 01:10:43
Thank you. My name is Dan Kemp. I live at 4437 Butternut. 01:10:51
And so the reason why this actually came about is we purchased that property recently. 01:10:57
And as you know, it is already configured with an AUD detached unit under the garage. 01:11:03
And so we were excited about the possibility of utilizing our own property to rent that out. 01:11:10
Unfortunately, we were. 01:11:17
Sort of told that it was rentable before we moved in. We found out subsequently that is not based on city code at the current 01:11:20
moment, so. 01:11:24
This came about from swanning to figure out how to do this properly and legally. 01:11:28
And so we wanted to figure out how to make that usable. 01:11:33
Since then there's been some changes as well, but. 01:11:39
I was also it was also brought to my attention that the neighbors to the east at 40274075 and 2485. 01:11:42
We're possibly interested in the same rezone. 01:11:51
So we decided to join together to ask that as a. 01:11:54
Together since it's consistent with the general plan and is in the area on the map and the plan where it shows that R2 is 01:11:59
available and possible. 01:12:03
So my particular lot I'll speak about kind of all three because I do know what their, their plans are, my particular lot is. 01:12:08
Was that apparently 8000 square feet? Initially, a little bit of land was given back to the city. 01:12:18
To make it actually about 160 feet square feet short of that. So really doesn't even fit in the hard 18 anymore. But if it's our 01:12:25
two way. 01:12:30
I've been now informed that with the AU, since it's detached and not attached, it's the requirement to rent out both. 01:12:37
Properties at the same time are not possible because it would require 10,000 square feet. 01:12:47
So unless there were lot line changes, which based on the other situation I guess is possible but not probable for our situation. 01:12:53
But we'd like to still move forward, because I know that the other participants are still interested in their lot. There are lots 01:13:01
being. 01:13:05
Changed. 01:13:10
My particular lot would probably only be able to be at this moment, I still. 01:13:11
Can't utilize the AU and rent it, which is unfortunate. However, I do know that there is a possibility that perhaps next week. 01:13:16
There's a text change amendment that may be brought forward because the city is perhaps wants to make AU's a little more possible 01:13:26
to be able to be utilized at with smaller lot sizes. So that would in fact enable me to be able to utilize it. If I we are living 01:13:32
on property we could rent out the AU at a separate time, that's a separate matter. But I just bring that up because I won't be 01:13:38
here next week when that is brought up to your attention but. 01:13:44
As far as the other two, lots. 01:13:51
There are. 01:13:53
I know that 27 or 2475. 01:13:55
They spoke to me and said that they just wanted to add one more family home for their kids so they could both. 01:13:59
Have their families living on the same property with two units. 01:14:06
And I know that the. 01:14:09
Owner of 2485 intends to build something similar to my situation with a detached. 01:14:11
Structured garage with something underneath or on top. 01:14:18
Where they could rent out that one location as well. I know that there's some concerns that I've seen in. 01:14:21
The packet that we're also addressing. 01:14:28
Traffic and the street usage and parking and such. So actually none of those. 01:14:32
Concerns really would apply at this moment, just because we're looking at the zone change and not, I mean, not trying to. 01:14:39
Put up any different structures of this moment but. 01:14:47
When they do, the other property owners do decide to do that. They would like to have all the parking contained on site. 01:14:51
Because that is a small 20 foot St. 01:15:01
So we're not excited about all the traffic on it either. So I know that the neighbors major concern is traffic on that street, 01:15:05
kids that walk on that street. 01:15:09
We're concerned about that too, I don't think adding a couple of cars on that street. 01:15:15
From the people that live there are going to add too much most of the traffic. 01:15:19
Is actually coming from other people using it as a. 01:15:22
Through a spare and they're going quite fast, that's really the major concern and. 01:15:25
It's honestly our concern as well, but at this moment. 01:15:30
Any parking would be on site. Our particular area for our house has A2 car garage and then in the picture that's in your packet. 01:15:34
It also you can see there's three cement pads and so there's parking to the right side of the garage that would allow for one car. 01:15:43
It's a small studio that would. 01:15:48
Really only allow for one or two people at one person or a couple anyway, so it would only be one car and that would be on site. 01:15:53
So we don't want anyone to park on that street either. 01:15:59
And we would be interested in also finding a way to have less traffic going up and down that street, but. 01:16:02
We're just looking at trying to change change it so that we can use our properties to the best and. 01:16:08
You know, for our own purposes basically, I think there were concerns that maybe developers were coming in and. 01:16:16
Going. 01:16:22
Take over and stuff, but that's not the case. It's just the property owners. 01:16:23
See and then. 01:16:27
Can I interrupt with a quick question? You mentioned that you too as the current property owners. 01:16:29
Excuse me? 01:16:36
Are interested in decreasing the traffic on that street. Do you have any ideas on how you might do that? Well, I mean if you we 01:16:38
are utilizing the AU's and and such and and they do get different sort of housing. 01:16:44
In there it could the transportation from the city, buses and whatnot might be. It actually may decrease the traffic, as least as 01:16:52
far as our lots are concerned, because they made a lot of those people that use those kind of smaller, you know, they're students 01:16:56
and they. 01:17:01
They just take public transportation as close to the holiday city village and whatnot. I understand how that might mitigate. 01:17:06
The. 01:17:14
Expansion of traffic, but you'd indicated you have hopes of reducing the traffic as it is right now. Have you given any thought to 01:17:15
how you might do that? There was a thought about maybe making that street. 01:17:21
So that it you can't actually drive on it. We talked about that with the city so that people could just utilize it for the kids to 01:17:28
walk through and not actually drive there and park there. 01:17:32
However, it does bring up some other concerns as far as bringing in, you know, the garbage trucks and whatnot, you can't really 01:17:37
have a turn around at the end and and so it does make it difficult. 01:17:43
It's sort of a. 01:17:49
It's kind of a. 01:17:52
Half and half situation and I think people do like to utilize that as a through St. which doesn't bother me either. But I, you 01:17:54
know obviously it's just mostly the speed so maybe just more control of the speed on that street would be more concerning for 01:18:00
anybody including the people who have kids walking on it, but. 01:18:05
So idea is to reduce the speed, anything to reduce the amount of traffic on this street. 01:18:12
That you said that you'd indicated in your comment earlier, Ohh, well, I just said, yeah, I just basically thought that it would 01:18:18
be nice to reduce the amount of St. traffic and I I do think the closing it could do that. 01:18:24
So it was not a through street, but that also brings up a lot like a like I said, a lot of other problems as well. So you're 01:18:30
taking any steps to. 01:18:33
Closed the street. No, no, no. We talked with the city and they just suggested that that could be one thing that could be done. 01:18:39
And then they talked about you know us maybe purchasing it, which I don't think we were really excited about either. And so it 01:18:46
would be maybe if that was done, it would be still maintained by the city, but. 01:18:52
And then like I said it. 01:18:59
The fact that you can't bring the garbage trucks up and down that street make it kind of difficult. 01:19:01
Forgive me, I interrupted you, I carry on where you were. Oh, you're fine. Appreciate it. Basically I just kind of wanted to 01:19:07
address mostly also concerns and that's why I brought up is mostly because I know that's concerns of the neighbors. 01:19:13
Is the street traffic and so. 01:19:19
I don't feel like the R2 zone change is going to really increase a lot of St. traffic for for them. 01:19:23
I mean. 01:19:30
More than an order, it is but. 01:19:32
I do believe that it would make. 01:19:34
It easier for us to maybe utilize our properties and like I said, unfortunately mine the only way I can actually use my AU's with 01:19:36
a text amendment but change. But as far as the other owners, I know that they're interested in maybe adding an Adu on their. 01:19:44
Or additional structure on their property. Great. I appreciate that, Mr. Kemp. Thank you and. 01:19:52
Just for my own edification real quick. And what would it this might be for city staff? Who are you? What would it take to make 01:19:58
that an attached? 01:20:01
Dwelling unit as it's currently built now like could you put an awning on it and call it attached? 01:20:06
For it to be attached, it would take a significant amount of work just looking at and talking with Mr. Kemp about where you know 01:20:11
existing doorways are. There's store, there's stone on the exterior, it could be attached, but it might be more costly than than 01:20:19
that is worth or you've attached it through the basement with. 01:20:26
Digging a tunnel connection between the two, again maybe more costly than. 01:20:34
Because I think in answer to your question, Chairman, I think the awning idea which I I thought of as well, was not considered 01:20:40
attached. 01:20:43
Yeah, just it needs to be an enclosed internal internal awning. With a screen porch on, it wouldn't be considered attached unless 01:20:49
it had its own HVAC. 01:20:53
Right. OK. So, yeah, so with the garage pull forward as it is, it would actually require the structure. 01:20:58
Behind the garage to be built and then attached to the house which would be pretty intensive so so that would. 01:21:06
Because like you said, that would take the requirement from 10,000 down to 8000. 01:21:13
So I don't know if there's any chance of, you know, making exceptions in the. 01:21:17
In the text. 01:21:23
In in the city code for that sort of situation, for existing structures or not, I mean I would love to explore that as well, but 01:21:24
from what I understand that may not be a possibility now. I appreciate it. I just wanted to clarify on that point, make sure I 01:21:30
understood the dynamic of the option there. Were there any other questions for the applicant that's representative at this time? 01:21:37
From the Commissioners. 01:21:44
OK. With that, we'll go ahead and have you sit down. 01:21:45
Get the pictures that I'm familiar with the property in that area and I'm looking at the pictures and you said that there would be 01:21:49
an off street parking, no one would have to park. 01:21:54
So you're currently just parked one car in the garage that currently sometimes we Part 2, but you can get through the garage and 01:21:59
still have a car parked on that right pad. We've done it before but I mean maybe not my truck but. 01:22:06
But it is tight. But it would if you parked the car on the right side, then maybe don't pull all the way up to the garage. You can 01:22:15
still enter the garage easily and and still have two cars inside as well. 01:22:20
But there's currently only one car in there right now. 01:22:25
And one other question and and perhaps some of the other owners are here and might comment, but if not, do you know if if? 01:22:29
What their? 01:22:38
And what their motivation? They don't have a DUI's. I understand. No, they're what's there here. But ohh, terrific. I'll let them 01:22:40
answer that question. Thanks anyway. OK. But yeah, they did want to, like I said, I I know the middle property wanted to build an 01:22:45
additional structure for their family to come live with on their area and the other applicant wanted to do something very similar 01:22:50
to what I have. 01:22:54
God. 01:22:59
Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Kemp. 01:23:02
With that, we will take public comment as soon as we open the public hearing. 01:23:04
And then we'll provide Mr. Kemp an opportunity to add any additional responses to any public comments that are made. 01:23:10
Before closing. 01:23:18
Before we move into the public meeting, just because I do see that there's several members of the public still here. Just as a 01:23:20
reminder, if you will not reiterate the same points made by a previous speaker and. 01:23:26
If you will keep your comments to 3 minutes or less, we'd appreciate that. 01:23:33
And with that, we'll go ahead and open up the public hearing and begin with comments. And it looks like we have someone coming up 01:23:37
right now. If you'll start with your name and address, please. 01:23:41
My name is Jeff Beck. I live at 4416 S Butternut Rd. It's right across the street from this. 01:23:48
Just for the record, we're excited that Dan bought the home and that he's. 01:23:56
There This is an awkward way to start a relationship with a neighbor, but. 01:24:00
I'm I'm opposed to this rezone application. I'll tell you why. 01:24:04
I'm not. I'm not opposed to. 01:24:08
Density increases when it makes sense. 01:24:10
I was very supportive of the R18 rezone for the house that Dan bought. 01:24:12
I think it fit in with the neighborhood, the character of the neighborhood. 01:24:18
Umm. 01:24:21
So I think the the the two points that I'm opposed to, one is is a beautiful home, the damn bot. 01:24:22
The builder puts something in the. 01:24:31
Wasn't, you know, wasn't legal from a standpoint of running it out to someone else. And so I'm I'm confused why we're trying to 01:24:34
fix. 01:24:37
That problem that that would be my first point. 01:24:41
And the second point is. 01:24:45
Kerry mentioned. 01:24:48
Several times that this was on 4500 S This is not 4500 S, this is 4470 S and there's a huge difference between 4430 S which is 01:24:50
45th S and 4470. 01:24:54
It's a 16 to 17 foot width on the asphalt. 01:25:00
As opposed to 60 feet on 4500 S So if if when you read the general plan and you see where the density increases make sense. 01:25:04
45 should be a higher density. It makes sense. It's a big Rd. there's a lot of traffic that can go through there. 01:25:11
39th makes sense, 23rd makes sense. 01:25:17
4470 does not make sense. It's not 45th. 01:25:20
And so I think it's really important that we that we separate this is not 4500 S. 01:25:24
And it does not meet. 01:25:29
The intent of the general plan, in my opinion. 01:25:31
It is 4470 S It's a tiny Rd. 01:25:33
You know you can. You can. 01:25:37
We can all pretend like it's not going to increase traffic or cause problems. 01:25:39
It already is a problem, and when you add more homes it's going to create more problems. May I ask what part of the general plan 01:25:43
in particular do you think this is inconsistent with? 01:25:48
So the General Plan identifies 4500 S. 01:25:53
As a corridor that should have increased density. 01:25:55
This is not 45 zero South. 01:25:59
This is 4470 S and there's A and and if you if you understand. 01:26:01
I I'm a developer ID real estate. I have these meetings all the time. 01:26:06
The intent of the code is a large arterial. 01:26:10
Makes sense for increased density. 01:26:14
That's why the General Plan shows it. 01:26:17
4470 is not 4500 S. 01:26:20
That was in my comments. 01:26:23
Thank you very much, Jeff. Appreciate that. 01:26:25
Any other comments? 01:26:28
Come on up please. 01:26:31
My name is Alicia Durr. I live at 2413 E Butternut Circle. 01:26:38
Just around the corner from the Butternut home. 01:26:43
And umm. 01:26:47
One other point, with this small St. there are no parking signs along the park side of that little small St. 01:26:51
And already you can see where 2 feet of the grass has been obliterated because cars do park there. 01:26:58
And I'm concerned that Holiday doesn't have the resources to continue to. 01:27:05
Enforce that no parking on that side. 01:27:11
With the corner house in question and that picture. 01:27:15
Most couples, when I've seen them, rent like a studio apartment. It's two cars. 01:27:19
And I've got a lot of kids that ride their bikes around. I'm concerned about that increasing more street parking, which would? 01:27:25
Lead on to Butternut Rd. 01:27:31
And also wander Lane where there are no sidewalks. 01:27:33
And it's already a little bit more of a dangerous St. for walkers and bikers. 01:27:37
Umm. 01:27:42
I'm just trying to remember my thoughts. 01:27:46
Also with. 01:27:50
Mr. Kemp. 01:27:52
You know, saying that he will designate that little parking spot. I'm also. 01:27:53
Concerned that a future owner, should it change hands, would not allow a renter to park there and there wouldn't be a designated 01:27:58
spot for that home right there. 01:28:02
When you look at the map. 01:28:08
I know it was mentioned before this meeting started that. 01:28:10
And it was a very recent change that those new properties, there's three new properties that I redeveloped. 01:28:14
That was a very recent change to change from R10 to R8 in order to be able to subdivide that into three different lots. 01:28:19
And everything on the north side of 45th South. 01:28:26
Is an R18. The majority are R110. 01:28:30
But even that new development happening on 23rd hundred 2300 E. 01:28:35
Aren't. 01:28:40
At an R28. 01:28:41
That was rezoned to be an R18 in order to put in that new development. 01:28:44
So there's nothing on that north side. 01:28:48
Of 45th South. That's an R2. 01:28:50
On the South side, when you look at that and you see the R210 and you look at those properties right there, they have little small 01:28:52
kind of private streets that allow. 01:28:57
For. 01:29:02
The parking that happened in the rear, right there for all of those. 01:29:04
And um. 01:29:08
And I'm just very worried about. 01:29:09
Being able to make designated parking for how many people actually move into homes and have multiple cars. 01:29:13
Already in the neighborhood, people have teenagers. 01:29:19
And a lot of the homes throughout there have 3. 01:29:21
Three cars with each home so. 01:29:24
That's another reason why I am concerned. 01:29:28
And then with the general plan, I know that affordability which was mentioned before, I know all those houses sold for well over 01:29:31
$1 million and. 01:29:36
None of these new properties are realistically would. 01:29:41
Would be considered an affordable type. 01:29:45
Unit. So I don't think it really meets that. 01:29:48
Qualification. 01:29:54
And then, um. 01:29:56
I. 01:29:58
I with our neighbourhood we access Wander Lane and that upper part. 01:29:59
And if you were to close off that street, this is just because this was in the conversation a little bit earlier. There are a lot 01:30:03
of accidents that happen. 01:30:07
Between Wander and 45. 01:30:11
I've witnessed 2 pedestrian accidents that have happened there and. 01:30:13
I'm sorry, between Wander and 40 Wander, Yeah, we're Wander crosses 45th right there. If you were to close off this little small 01:30:18
St. for everyone to be able to access both ways. 01:30:23
You would have more cars needing to turn onto 45th and then turn left. 01:30:29
Onto wander lane to be able to access that neighborhood, which is just. 01:30:34
More of a chance of of accidents happening. Turning on to that buddy Busy St. 01:30:39
It's really nice as a neighborhood to be able to turn onto that small lane. 01:30:44
And be able to go right up to Wonderland I do it. 01:30:49
Many times during the day. 01:30:52
If that makes any sense so. 01:30:54
And those are my comments. Thank you. Thank you. 01:30:56
Thank you, Planning Commission. I'm Andrew Webb. I live on 4348 S. 01:31:08
Butternut Rd. 01:31:12
I live a little bit further down but and it's been most of it has been mentioned, so I won't reiterate that, but I do want to 01:31:15
mention the there are many families. 01:31:19
Who send their children up there for school on this street? And we've talked a little bit about parking. 01:31:23
But I think the traffic is the big concern for the few that I've spoken with. 01:31:29
And as of course I'm super sensitive to the condition that. 01:31:34
Our resident and our neighbors in I just feel I would be frustrated if I were him. 01:31:37
I would be. 01:31:42
But I recognize that this would be awry, I think, for especially all of these kids who are using this little St. each day. 01:31:44
To get to school or to get to their friends? 01:31:52
And they're quite a few of them. 01:31:55
That's the only other thing I think we've I'd mentioned I've heard everything else that I. 01:31:56
As I spoken with other neighbors and. 01:32:01
That that feels like something that needs to be considered. 01:32:03
Thanks for your time. Thanks for evaluating the situation. We know it's not always. 01:32:05
Easy. 01:32:09
What you do and we appreciate it. 01:32:10
Thank you, Andrew. 01:32:13
Any other comments? 01:32:18
Hi, I'm Cheryl Far. I live at 44. Sorry, could you put that mic up? It just barely can't hear you. 01:32:26
I'm Cheryl Farr. I live at 4400 Butternut Rd. 01:32:31
Which is around the corner from the property. 01:32:34
On Butternut. 01:32:38
Wrote her across the street from that kind of Kitty corner. 01:32:39
I agree with some of these comments that have been made already, so I won't reiterate those points. 01:32:45
Couple of things that I have noticed that have not yet been said is that. 01:32:51
This. 01:32:56
This street that we're talking about, this small St. 4470 S. 01:32:57
Has no sidewalk on either side of the street. 01:33:01
And we do have a lot of foot traffic coming from Howard Driggs down through. 01:33:05
4470 or through the park? 01:33:10
And the only access for pedestrian. 01:33:12
Safety is the sidewalk along 4500 S. 01:33:16
Excuse me, which park you're referring to? 01:33:20
There's a little triangular mark that is that abuts the street, right? The same one. I'm sorry, go ahead. 01:33:23
Um, so the the sidewalk on the north side of that park is the only pedestrial? 01:33:30
Access that we have other than walking through the park talking about the park immediately adjacent to this road. Yes, Got it. 01:33:37
Thank you. 01:33:41
Umm. 01:33:46
And so when children are coming down the street from. 01:33:48
Howard Driggs. 01:33:53
That. 01:33:55
The. 01:33:58
Intersection between Wander Lane and 45th South. 01:33:59
Or. 01:34:04
The children have to either go directly West on that street crossing Wander Lane, which is a very busy. 01:34:06
Intersection from cars. 01:34:13
Turning left and going north on 45th South and turning left onto Wander Lane. It's a very busy intersection or the children have 01:34:16
to round the corner on Wander Lane. 01:34:20
Cross Wonder Lane. 01:34:25
And go down 4470 S. 01:34:27
With no sidewalks. 01:34:29
And no safety. 01:34:31
Access. 01:34:35
And that that's a big concern for me. 01:34:36
I have also witnessed many pedestrian accidents. I personally was in a pedestrian accident, a pedestrian accident on 4500 S. 01:34:40
And was. 01:34:50
Hit by a car and. 01:34:52
I am actually lucky to be alive and so I'm very sensitive to the. 01:34:55
The traffic and the density that is in this area. 01:35:00
The configuration of the streets. 01:35:04
If a car is heading north or excuse me, heading east on 45th South and then turns left onto Butternut Rd. heading north at that 01:35:08
point. 01:35:13
There is that is a very awkward corner because there is not a lot of. 01:35:19
Space for the cars and yet also a lot of pedestrian. 01:35:25
Traffic coming. 01:35:29
West on that 4470 S. 01:35:31
Street and turning on to Butternut Rd. 01:35:35
Umm. 01:35:38
Another. So I am very concerned about the increase in traffic. I think it's a hazard I think you will have. 01:35:41
I have seen. 01:35:49
Vehicle accidents that are vehicles that are traveling N on wander lane and trying to cross. 01:35:53
4500 S onto Wander Lane on the north Side. 01:36:00
I've seen many vehicle accidents there and the cars. 01:36:03
That get hit end up in the canal and the other thing that I don't don't think anyone has mentioned is the canal. 01:36:07
That runs on the east side of these properties. 01:36:14
Um. 01:36:17
And what access? 01:36:18
Are are these homes going to be? 01:36:22
Taking Are they going across the canal? Are they going along 4470 S? 01:36:24
What access is going to be? 01:36:29
Provided. 01:36:33
For these extra homes in that area. 01:36:34
I have a great concern over the density. I think the. 01:36:37
The. 01:36:41
Question of. 01:36:43
Moderate housing is. 01:36:44
Is not a legitimate question because this area is. 01:36:46
Higher. 01:36:50
Income level higher. 01:36:51
Standard of living type. 01:36:53
Area. 01:36:55
So I I do not agree that this that argument holds. 01:36:56
Umm. 01:37:02
Another concern of mine is the character of the neighborhood. If new buildings are built on these properties, it would go. 01:37:04
Against the character of the neighborhood, in that most homes in the existing area are all single level. 01:37:12
With basements and if you increase the density in these properties. 01:37:20
The the homes would be built. 01:37:25
Tri level meaning a basement, a regular level and then an upper level. 01:37:28
And that would. 01:37:33
That would not be consistent with the character of the neighborhood. 01:37:35
Thank you very much. Thank you. 01:37:38
Any other public comments? 01:37:44
Again just a reminder, if you can keep it to 3 minutes, try not to repeat and name and address please minus. 01:37:49
I agree with everything my neighbors have said. Did I have something else to take? OK, my name is Elaine Erickson. I live at 4388 01:37:55
S Wander Lane, which is the property right behind. 01:38:01
These. 01:38:08
To the to the north, to the north. 01:38:10
Yes, to the north. 01:38:12
So if they were to build. 01:38:14
Four places there. 01:38:17
I would. 01:38:19
Have. 01:38:21
More neighbors than I have now, which? 01:38:21
Concerns me. 01:38:25
And height that's another windows. Also my sewer line goes right through that property. 01:38:28
And I'm a little bit worried about what? 01:38:34
I don't want any extra charges for someone else's. 01:38:37
Benefit. 01:38:41
So that concerns me also, but I really. 01:38:42
I really prefer not to set in my kitchen. 01:38:46
Eating dinner and. 01:38:51
Looking at my neighbors in their bathroom, I really prefer a little bit of space between me. 01:38:53
And the next one's over. 01:38:59
And that's. 01:39:01
Just kind of what I'm asking for is the little space. 01:39:03
Excellent. Thank you very much for your comments. 01:39:07
I'll go really quickly because it might be redundant, but I'm trying not be redundant. I'm Caitlin Beck. 01:39:19
Jeff's wife. I live across the street. 01:39:24
One point that Alicia kind of alluded to is this is. 01:39:27
From 23rd to 27th. 01:39:31
45th. 01:39:34
Over is just one big neighborhood and it feels a little bit like we are separated, but that street kind of saves us in that way. 01:39:35
We are constantly going back and forth on that street. It connects us. My kids ride their scooters back and forth. 01:39:43
All the time. And if one car is parked there, you can't really even get through. I mean, it's. 01:39:52
It's just teeny they it was stated that it was 20 feet wide, but my husband measured at 16 feet wide, 17 Max. It's just a skinny, 01:39:57
skinny Rd. you cannot park on and it's just already a problem with how much how skinny it is. Parking is hard. It it already 01:40:04
stresses me out, is what I'm saying. 01:40:10
And with all of my kiddos, I've got five kids with most of their friends up there, so the thought of adding to it just. 01:40:17
Adds a lot more stress because I feel like it would be more of a divide of the neighborhood and it would be less safe for the 01:40:24
kids. 01:40:27
And again, it's been said, but that wander lane, if you're not familiar with it, go try and turn a couple times into it, it's. 01:40:30
Or go, I mean it's just a scary road and if that is a harder road to access and we're we're pushing all of that West and East Rd. 01:40:37
drivers onto 45th for that short little thing, it'll happen like. 01:40:44
50 cars a day, you know, just that little. And I just think it will. The the history of accidents is crazy right there. We've all 01:40:51
seen them. 01:40:54
So just add, this is a very high stress. 01:40:59
Spa already. We've got this cute park. It's great the kids walk it. 01:41:03
Adding anymore to it is going to is scares me to death. So Caitlin, I just want to clarify. You're at 4416, yeah. 01:41:07
And is that the property that's right on the corner of 45th or 1 N? No, we actually lived there for quite a while and then we live 01:41:14
just. 01:41:18
One in. 01:41:22
Thanks. 01:41:25
OK. 01:41:26
Robert Bradley 4375 S 2490 E which is just. 01:41:35
Half a block away. I just want to clarify. Could you repeat your name again? I I did. Robert Bradley. Thank you. Thank you. 01:41:40
I just want to clarify in the in the prior meeting it was said that this was an R18. 01:41:49
But it was really R110 and then converted to an R18. 01:41:54
03 or four years ago. So it's been historically has been our 1:10 for all of that property. 01:41:58
And just if I can just call on staff real quick, John, can you confirm that it was R110 converted to R18 in the 1999 county zoning 01:42:06
maps had it as R18 when we incorporated we changed it to 10. 01:42:12
And yes, the resident is correct. 3434 years ago it was rezoned at this corner. 01:42:19
To 1. So way back when it was 8 we changed it to 10. Then they changed it back to 834 years ago, OK? 01:42:25
Yeah. 01:42:32
Thank you. 01:42:32
Any other comments from the public? 01:42:37
I wasn't going to speak that. 01:42:43
And the party? 01:42:45
Owner's name and address please. Kevin Holman and I'm 2485 E 4500 S My closing documents when I purchased the property were 4500. 01:42:46
SI have never until today seen 4470. 01:42:53
Half of my stuff comes 44. 01:43:00
4430, Half of it. The majority of it comes 4500, and I've never seen that address. Just for the record till today. All through 01:43:03
COVID and for the last three years I've worked at home, my living room window looks out at the street all day. I watched my 01:43:09
neighbors drive back and forth. I watched the speed at which people go. I would never allow my children to walk on that lane, let 01:43:16
alone have their scooters on it and be unsupervised. I have seen so many near misses when I've been in meetings on the phone, I 01:43:22
can't even tell you. 01:43:28
How concerned I am. I think all of their concerns could be addressed. 01:43:34
By getting a sidewalk on the park. 01:43:39
Just to get that off that property, it is very, very narrow. No one can park on that little. I call it an alley. I've, I've lived 01:43:43
in the Avenues. It is very, very. It's my driveway practically. But as they've all mentioned, they all use it every day to fly 01:43:48
through back and forth. 01:43:53
And avoid 45. I get it. It's very busy. I have seen, I've been witnessed to all the accidents, all the unreported accidents where 01:44:00
police haven't even been called because. 01:44:05
There's been feuds and then the people have just ended it out there again. I would never allow my children to walk on that lane. I 01:44:10
would never allow my children to cross on 4500 across wander lane unsupervised. It is scary. Go sit there from 7:15 to 8:30. Look 01:44:17
at the. 01:44:23
Back to the topic, yeah, which is trying to get it back to an R2, which was the point for tonight. 01:44:32
Yeah, anyway, sorry. 01:44:40
Do you have any questions for me? 01:44:43
I I don't have any questions for you. 01:44:47
Unless the commissioners have any questions since he's the other applicant here tonight. 01:44:49
So our understanding from the other applicant that represented you in the beginning. 01:44:53
Is that your plan is to build an accessory dwelling unit? Yes, that's what I would like to do, Yes. OK. 01:44:58
And one unit are you? Are you? 01:45:05
Just one unit that I want my kids to live in as I have a bunch of young married kids and it would be a great place for them to. 01:45:07
To live on my property but be in a separate dwelling so a second home or no, it would be attached to my garage, yeah. 01:45:14
OK. 01:45:22
Which I am planning on adding a garage to that property. 01:45:23
And again, all of the parking can be addressed on our property. We have plenty of room for parking. 01:45:27
On our lots. 01:45:33
You said you're planning on having that attached to your garage. I will do whatever the city. I will work with the city to comply 01:45:35
with whatever. 01:45:39
Zoning, legal legalities are required. 01:45:44
Yes, I would. 01:45:48
But that's the plan. 01:45:49
And as you've gazed out your window while you're working at home, yeah, Have you ever seen a car parked on that street? 01:45:50
So frequently, even the city, the people who take care of the grounds, they park on that street. 01:45:58
And so then that congests the area. The only place that people park on the street is on my property. 01:46:04
And on my fence that again will be alleviated because that will be my driveway. My driveway is very narrow and I contend with all 01:46:10
the traffic on it. Why are they parking in front of your house? 01:46:16
That's the only place to park. 01:46:23
There's like a little tiny piece. And so when a car's there, it even becomes more dangerous. And that's all they have, a fence. Is 01:46:24
that on the street? 01:46:28
Yeah, it's well, there's as one of the neighbors mentioned, it's only 16 feet. I've never measured it before. So they don't really 01:46:32
care how long. I'm just asking is that spot that you're talking about on the street? 01:46:38
They have to part partially on the street and mostly on my property in order to park there. 01:46:45
Is they have plenty of parking all along 4500 S, but nobody ever parks there. Is that where you've got a no parking sign? Rather I 01:46:51
finally put that up because my fence, which is old anyway and will be. 01:46:57
Going at some point they park into it and then they hit it and it's about knocked down. 01:47:03
Thank you. 01:47:08
Any other questions for the applicant? 01:47:11
OK. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. 01:47:14
And with that? 01:47:17
Real quick. 01:47:21
First of all. 01:47:22
Talking. 01:47:24
And again, this is Elaine Erickson. OK, just for our record, thank you and his. 01:47:25
Address of 41st South. 01:47:30
Is that many years ago? 01:47:31
That was 45th so. 01:47:33
That is the old 45th South. Many people who have lived along there have the address of 45th South, but it's. 01:47:35
Not 45th South anymore. 01:47:43
Appreciate that. 01:47:45
And. 01:47:47
Just. 01:47:47
The clerk. 01:47:48
And and anecdotally, just to share as someone who's dug in Butternut Park and planted 2 trees there, there is a fine layer of 01:47:49
asphalt about two feet below the soil line where the original 45th South runs. 01:47:56
So I'm fully aware that that street still exists underneath the park. 01:48:03
Ohh. 01:48:09
Not. 01:48:10
The center. 01:48:11
475. 01:48:13
Was a. 01:48:14
Like before. 01:48:15
Resume. 01:48:16
That. 01:48:16
The framing down. 01:48:17
Home is still there. It's. 01:48:19
It was a duplex. 01:48:22
Or. 01:48:23
Walk in the. 01:48:24
Both sides. 01:48:25
Interesting. 01:48:28
OK. Alright. Thank you very much for that. And then just lastly, I would like just to extend one more opportunity if. 01:48:29
Dan Kemp had anything that he wanted to add after the comments that have been just to address real quickly. 01:48:38
Chair, do you want to close the public hearing and then have the applicant apologize? Let me close the public hearing. Thank you 01:48:46
for pointing, Avoider. Then we'll have you Go ahead and. 01:48:50
Address it. I was just going to address a couple of things. One is that for. 01:48:54
Her benefit, the one that lives to the north of Kevin on 2045, he was going to do. 01:49:00
Just to reiterate, an Adu like mine, so it would not be 4 units in that spot. 01:49:08
And it was going to be at the front, so it would. 01:49:13
Interfere with your property. 01:49:15
And the middle property where they're. 01:49:17
The, his, his right he'd be on the South side. 01:49:21
Right. 01:49:27
OK. If I can just let me just reel everyone in here, please. We're not going to have a discussion in here. So if you can just 01:49:29
address the Commission trying to let her, I appreciate that. Yeah. 01:49:33
I don't really understand I guess where her property is, but I just know that it was only going to be 180 U on his property is 01:49:38
what he wanted to do. 01:49:41
The middle one. 01:49:45
It was mentioned it could be 4. 01:49:46
I know that they're planning on doing one additional home. 01:49:48
Obviously, if they were going to do 4 or whatever it was, that would have to come before the committee at a separate time and also 01:49:52
have the public's input as well. 01:49:56
So it's really hard to say what they would build. 01:50:01
And I can't really speak for them for that either, but as far as the again on my unit it. 01:50:05
R2 is really not going to make a difference unless I ever changed a lot line. 01:50:11
And the pedestrian access, obviously that's a concern for everybody. It's a concern for us. So I thought that his idea to have a 01:50:16
sidewalk on the one side of the park would be a great idea. There is a sidewalk that goes through the park or part of it, so 01:50:21
that's also helpful, but. 01:50:26
So hopefully we can keep everybody safe and. 01:50:32
We'd like to see that as well. 01:50:36
OK. 01:50:38
All right. Thank you very much. 01:50:38
Appreciate everyone's comments and with the. 01:50:40
Public hearing closed. We'll now turn to our Planning Commission for discussion about this and just as a reminder. 01:50:43
What we are looking at with Razones specifically are the four items outlined in the packet. 01:50:51
Which? 01:50:58
You guys can read, so I don't have to just completely go over them all again, but. 01:51:00
Does it? 01:51:04
Meet the objectives of the General Plan. 01:51:05
Is it harmonious with the overall character? 01:51:08
Can it adversely affect a budding properties? 01:51:11
And do all the facilities and services intended to serve the property work in this rezone? 01:51:15
So with that commissioners discussion, Marty Banks anything? 01:51:20
Yeah, the third criteria. 01:51:25
Says not only whether it will affect the abutting properties, but. 01:51:27
Or the surrounding neighborhoods. I have a. 01:51:31
I have an impression that this may indeed adversely and materially. 01:51:34
Affect the surrounding neighborhood in terms of. 01:51:39
Pedestrian use. 01:51:44
Pedestrian traffic. 01:51:46
Safety for kids? 01:51:49
I. 01:51:52
I. 01:51:52
I would be sympathetic to some mitigating. 01:51:54
Conditions that might be imposed. 01:51:57
But we haven't really talked about that yet and the applicant. 01:52:00
Neither the applicant nor. 01:52:03
The members of the. 01:52:05
Public have offered any. 01:52:06
Mitigating. 01:52:09
Conditions that might. 01:52:10
Make this more palatable to me. 01:52:12
As it is right now. 01:52:15
I. 01:52:19
Yeah, we all want to encourage these, Adus especially. 01:52:20
At this time, where we're, you know? 01:52:23
Housing shortages, so. 01:52:26
Severe. 01:52:28
But. 01:52:30
I hate to. 01:52:31
I hate. I hate to disregard the sort of underlying. 01:52:33
10. 01:52:38
Of. 01:52:39
Those. 01:52:41
Criteria that we have to base a decision on. 01:52:43
And that one in particular to me is. 01:52:46
Not a slam dunk, but all things considered. 01:52:50
I'm weighing that direction. 01:52:53
I appreciate that and I can understand the. 01:52:56
Points made around the. 01:52:59
Impact. 01:53:02
To other properties, so. 01:53:03
With that, I'll switch gears and we'll come over to Commissioner Gong. Any thoughts or input? 01:53:05
Um. 01:53:10
I agree. I mean, it seems like a lot of people are have a lot of concerns, but it's part of this. 01:53:11
Broader picture that these intersections are already pretty dangerous. So I have just sort of broader question for the. 01:53:16
For the city staff. 01:53:23
There. 01:53:25
It seems like a lot of the concerns are connected with this bigger picture of saying it's already really bad. What are, what are, 01:53:28
what's the history of? Have there been any traffic studies about this area? Any any thoughts about mitigating the broader thing 01:53:32
so? 01:53:36
So the whole area isn't just, it's already clearly a concern, no matter, you know, whether or not they're A use on these units. So 01:53:42
what's the history of that discussion around this area? 01:53:46
And maybe John can give some more insight into the larger history with the creation of this. 01:53:53
More narrow Rd. as the alignment of 4500 S was adjusted. 01:53:59
Talking to the city Engineer the. 01:54:06
Impact of adding additional dwelling units, even up to five would be negligible, have a negligible effect on that roadway. Safety 01:54:09
concerns with pedestrians or other vehicles using the road. 01:54:16
The majority of the road use sounds like it is from the surrounding neighborhood connecting between the two. There would be an 01:54:25
option to look at how that traffic can be addressed in other ways if that's. 01:54:32
That would have to be in consultation with the with the city engineer to address some of those larger traffic concerns. 01:54:42
Commissioner Gong, if I might. 01:54:50
45 Zero South is not our street, it's a UDOT Rd. 01:54:52
UDOT maintains and operates UDOT as a collector to the freeway access points. 01:54:55
So they do conduct St. analysis every year. 01:55:00
And they give that in those numbers to us. But other than just getting straight numbers of ADT average daily traffic counts. 01:55:04
Yeah, it's a collector and it's fast. 01:55:12
And we had to where we were dealing with a state road right that bisects our city. 01:55:16
East West. 01:55:21
North-south. 01:55:25
Well, yeah, from a north to South side, sure, but having the corridor run directly east West is difficult. 01:55:27
OK. 01:55:34
Great. Thank you, Commissioner Cunningham. 01:55:35
I share some of Marty's concerns. 01:55:39
The city has already made a decision that we're going to encourage this kind of zoning. 01:55:43
And they've hinged it on moderate housing. 01:55:49
But in the ordinance it talks about moderating housing, moderate housing, finance by redevelopment agencies and stuff like that, 01:55:52
which I don't think is at play here. 01:55:57
And that more importantly, I think, by putting it on the transportation corridors. 01:56:02
Which is a City Council decision to do that. 01:56:09
This is the exception to the rule. 01:56:13
Now you know, I would say you know for the 23rd all the way up to. 01:56:15
I-15. 01:56:20
I'm not sure I would. 01:56:21
Be concerned, this is just weird. OK? It's an artifact. 01:56:23
Of. 01:56:28
Putting the park and keeping the road there, someone made those decisions and it happened. 01:56:29
And it's a reality for that neighborhood. 01:56:34
And that I think this is the wrong place to solve an AU problem. 01:56:36
To result. 01:56:42
OK, we've heard the applicants talk about AD as well. 01:56:43
Gather other ways to get Adus. 01:56:47
The council will probably have to get to address directly. 01:56:50
And I'm not persuaded that this is a good decision to make, and I think it's within our legislative authority. 01:56:53
To say no. 01:57:01
All right. Appreciate that, Commissioner Prince. 01:57:03
I. 01:57:06
I'm sympathetic to the concerns about the traffic. 01:57:08
However. 01:57:13
At the same time, I'm not convinced that. 01:57:15
Traffic from a few new units. 01:57:19
Would materially change the situation where it's people in the. 01:57:23
Coming from Butternut Circle or Briarwood or wherever. 01:57:27
Passing through over to wander lane and vice versa. 01:57:32
I'm not convinced that a few units would materially change the utilization of the road and the traffic. 01:57:35
On the road I. 01:57:43
You know, safety 1st and all, but I I'm not convinced that the situation would be dramatically different. 01:57:45
If there were a couple of more units placed on the road, so I. 01:57:53
I I think there's real value in. 01:57:59
Considering options for a property owner to utilize their property. 01:58:03
As. 01:58:08
As they would like to. 01:58:09
And I don't think we should just summarily dismiss. 01:58:12
Property owners being able to consider their options. 01:58:17
Because the. 01:58:21
Neighbors want a better sidewalk or. 01:58:24
Something along those lines and that's not to dismiss. 01:58:27
Safety concerns. I just think there's it's a real balance between the individual property owners. 01:58:30
Opportunities. 01:58:36
And desires. 01:58:37
And those of the surrounding neighborhood, and I'm not sure that it's clear at this point. 01:58:39
Which way it falls out? 01:58:46
Best. 01:58:48
OK. 01:58:50
And lastly, I'll turn to. 01:58:51
Commissioner Betsy. 01:58:52
I do agree with you, Commissioner Prince, I think you've you've pointed out a very important consideration. 01:58:54
And that we have to make, but I also agree with the other points that the Commissioners have made here. 01:59:00
I feel like there's some valid points that have been made and brought to our attention. 01:59:06
Umm. 01:59:11
By the staff and by the public tonight. 01:59:13
And one of the things that. 01:59:16
I am concerned with is that this just went through a rezoning. 01:59:18
We. 01:59:23
Have just been told that. 01:59:25
At least the one property was rezoned. 01:59:27
Just back in 2020. 01:59:30
And it was to. 01:59:32
Fulfill the purpose of the General Plan in offering more housing. 01:59:34
And which they? 01:59:39
Allowed. 01:59:41
Smaller lot sizes already. 01:59:42
And that's already been done. I wasn't on the Planning Commission at that time, but that was that was done. 01:59:45
And so here we are just three years later, and we're being asked to even go smaller. We're being asked to even put more. 01:59:52
On land. 01:59:59
When it was already decided that the R18 zone was adequate. 02:00:00
For the plan. 02:00:06
And so to to be at a place just three years later where we're being asked. 02:00:07
So once again, add more. 02:00:13
Just wonder where do you draw the line? 02:00:15
At what point do you say we've already done it, we've already accommodated for the general plan? 02:00:18
At what point? 02:00:25
Is it enough? 02:00:26
I understand what's being said about property owners. 02:00:27
Being able to use their property. 02:00:30
I do think in an R110 from what my understanding is, is that they do have options for a U still. 02:00:33
That we're not telling them that they can't do it. 02:00:39
There's just restrictions on how they go about doing that that would fit in better with the surrounding neighborhood. 02:00:42
That would fit in better with what's or even established in that area it sounds like from the review that I've done. 02:00:49
That those lots in that area are are win 10. 02:00:57
There are not any other R2. 02:01:02
80s. 02:01:06
Homes or or lots in that area if I understand it. 02:01:10
So how in making this accommodation recommending this zone change? 02:01:15
How does that fit in with the area that's already established and already there? 02:01:19
Like we've already done it, We've already, like, tried to work with the General Plan and add more housing when that change 02:01:25
happened three years ago. 02:01:29
Great comments. I appreciate everybody's input and individually going through and discussing that. 02:01:34
Lastly, I'll just add my own thoughts in addition to what's been shared. 02:01:40
I think the the striking point for me when I look at this, when we look at the the map 2.3 that shows the MDRT medium density 02:01:45
residential transitional. 02:01:52
That runs along 45th. 02:01:58
The the one thing that kind of stands out to me on that that buffer line that's arbitrarily drawn all the way along the road is 02:02:00
that there is actually a spot in there for open space and that's not represented within this. 02:02:06
Line that's been drawn along 4500 S and I do recognize that butternut is very much the park itself, a sliver of a park. 02:02:13
We do not have a lot of park space here in holiday to speak of and this is. 02:02:22
Definitely a very wide park strip. 02:02:26
That we consider a part, but it is still nonetheless open space within our city and I think that changes the dynamic when we look 02:02:29
at the MDRT. 02:02:35
As it's drawn out on the general plan, because I don't think that the butternut parts really been taken into account. 02:02:40
To change the fact that that's offset from the major Rd. of 4500 S there. 02:02:47
So for me I think that. 02:02:53
Kind of lends support and. 02:02:56
Necessitates the the consideration of the other commissioners. 02:03:01
Voiced opposition of moving forward with a favorable recommendation at this time. 02:03:06
But that being said. 02:03:13
I understand that you know that I am sympathetic to the applicants. 02:03:16
Desire for their property rights and of course you know what they want to do with their homes. 02:03:21
But we're not the final legislative body in this discussion. 02:03:25
We're just. 02:03:29
Asked to take the the feedback and review it from the standpoints that we've been given and I think we've vetted that out 02:03:30
thoroughly at this point. So unless there's anything else to consider or or staff or legal has any other advice for us, I think 02:03:35
we're at this time at a point where we're ready to entertain one of two motions. 02:03:41
I just want to add something that I think it's interesting that the three applicants decided to apply together. 02:03:47
Because to me it actually feels different. 02:03:53
And again, there's this bigger question for me of. 02:03:55
Is there any penalty for a builder who? 02:03:59
Builds an Adu you can't legally rent out and doesn't disclose that or or or makes it sound like you can and then you can't. I mean 02:04:02
that's that's a big concern to me. I I think that's. 02:04:06
Deceitful. 02:04:11
So and so I actually feel a little bit differently about something that's already there versus putting something new on and so. 02:04:14
I don't know what the. 02:04:24
What the repercussions are for bad acting builders but. 02:04:27
You know, to to say this is already there, I want to use it, versus saying I want to build something new. That actually feels very 02:04:30
different to me. 02:04:33
And so I'd be interested in. 02:04:36
Curious about any other thoughts about if this were separate applications we perhaps think about it differently. 02:04:39
Which is not, you know, not what we're voting on tonight, but it's it's a thought that I've been having. 02:04:45
I this is Commissioner Prince. I'd like to follow up on that comment and just ask city staff how did they get a building permit to 02:04:50
do something that was illegal? 02:04:54
So it's. 02:05:00
I mean, you can build. 02:05:01
What you want, right? A builder can build a space that's not attached to a house that's in an accessory building. 02:05:03
They can put a second kitchen in it's. 02:05:12
You know it doesn't. 02:05:15
They can build that. It's that the use is determined by what is in the code. So it's implying that it could be used as an as 02:05:16
opposed to building. It's fine, right? So then you could built it. It's built as an accessory use or a bonus room, a bonus space, 02:05:25
a man cave aid over the attic, bonus space, you know, similar kind of concept that anybody could build in their house. 02:05:33
So that is that is what was on the plans with the builder. Is this is a bonus space? 02:05:42
It's separated from the house. You could use it as an office. You could use it as. 02:05:47
Anything it's. 02:05:51
Then trying to use it as an accessory dwelling unit that is rentable is is a use barrier that our code does not allow on an 02:05:53
external building to an external accessory dwelling unit, if I may clarify on that. So if it was a mother-in-law apartment that 02:06:01
was truly being occupied by a mother-in-law who was not paying rent, that would be legal, yes, correct. OK. Or they're married 02:06:08
children or. 02:06:15
A couple of days. 02:06:23
Yep. 02:06:25
Could it be an Airbnb No. 02:06:26
The one of the qualifications on a short term rental is to be on a roadway that is 66 feet wide or wider. 02:06:30
All right, great discussion. 02:06:44
Unless there's anything else, is anyone prepared to make? 02:06:46
A motion on this. 02:06:50
I have one more question about the rezoning if. 02:06:52
If the rezoning were approved, does that mean? 02:06:57
It doesn't necessarily follow that an application to build an Adu would then also be approved. 02:07:01
Right. It would still each parcel would have to meet. 02:07:07
The regulations in order to setbacks everything in order to use that so. 02:07:10
Looking at the corner unit. 02:07:17
Or the corner property on Butternut. 02:07:20
As is. 02:07:23
With the R2 zone on that property. 02:07:25
They still would not be able to rent that unit unless it was somehow attached to the house. 02:07:27
So they're still in a place where. 02:07:34
They wouldn't be able to utilize it. 02:07:36
They there's, you know, options for. 02:07:38
The property owner. Anybody who owns that property to convert space within the house. 02:07:42
In an R2 zone, then they could rent out a basement and an upstairs unit separately, same as. 02:07:47
They would if they were living there and renting out a basement. 02:07:55
As would be allowed it with an internal accessory dwelling unit. 02:07:58
So overall, the amount of people or the living spaces? 02:08:02
Can largely be the same whether we're talking about an 80 U or within an R2 zone being able to rent out separate units. It's a 02:08:07
difference between if the property owner lives on site. 02:08:12
Or if you can, rent out a separate unit or both units separately. 02:08:18
And we're just making a recommendation to the council. We're not the decision maker. 02:08:23
Exactly correct. 02:08:27
And then just last devil's advocate question that I have for you on this is if the. 02:08:29
To. 02:08:34
Get my bearings right here. 2 Eastern. Most applicants in this decided, hey, I'm going to sell my property to this developer. He 02:08:36
buys both applications. 02:08:41
And says. Now I own all this and I want to subdivide the lot and I want to put in say. 02:08:45
4 duplexes on there. 02:08:50
He'd legally be able to do that within the zone change if the square footage met that requirement. Is that right? 02:08:53
Right. It would take somebody purchasing properties, combining them, treating them as one whole property that then they would be 02:08:59
able to put however many units are allowed on. 02:09:05
The entire property if that were to happen. 02:09:11
And then they could also make it a PUD and go a little bit higher and wider and closer if they really wanted to push their luck. 02:09:16
On a PUD the the intent is the preservation of open space, so. 02:09:23
And. 02:09:28
Umm. 02:09:29
There's there's specific standards within a PUD that would. 02:09:31
That would need to be met. 02:09:35
But again, talking about a very hypothetical situation, not right I I'm I'm not, I'm not indicating in any way shape or form 02:09:36
that's the applicants intent. I'm just saying by making this zone change, it does potentially open the door for that type of 02:09:42
scenario to happen within. 02:09:47
1015 years or even 2 years, right? 02:09:52
If all the stars aligned in that pattern. 02:09:55
Right. 02:09:59
This is Commissioner Prince at this point, however. 02:10:01
When we consider the middle and the eastern most properties. 02:10:04
They are our 110 at this time, yes. 02:10:09
Thank you. 02:10:14
I just have a quick addition to you on. 02:10:20
Commissioner Cunningham, you mentioned the Redevelopment Agency funds. 02:10:23
That was in reference to the city having redevelopment funds that. 02:10:28
Can be utilized by any property owner. 02:10:34
Currently they're earmarked for a different redevelopment project, but if that doesn't happen, or if more funds are added. 02:10:36
Any property owner can utilize those redevelopment funds for their own property to develop moderate income housing. So that's to 02:10:44
offset some of the cost to create moderate income housing. 02:10:50
OK, so there's two things listed. Rezone on transit. 02:10:59
Corridors. 02:11:04
And then the ones with the Redevelopment Agency, So those are. 02:11:05
Not mutually exclusive, right? Two different strategies in our moderate income housing plan. 02:11:09
But it would have to meet one of those criteria. 02:11:16
Yeah. Well, it's those are presented in the general plan as strategies to meet the moderate income housing requirements that is in 02:11:19
the general plan. 02:11:24
All right, Commissioners. 02:11:37
Any further investigation? I would. I'm inviting a motion if someone so inclined to make one. 02:11:39
Commissioner Banks moves to forward a positive recommendation toward the City Council to approve. 02:11:44
The application submitted by Messrs Kemp. 02:11:50
Watch It Alone and Holman to amend the holiday zoning map. 02:11:55
For the. 02:11:59
Referenced parcels set forth in the application. 02:12:00
Which would change those. 02:12:04
Zonings from R18 and R110. 02:12:06
To collectively and Art Dash 2-8. 02:12:11
Based on one. 02:12:15
The proposed amendment. 02:12:17
Is. 02:12:19
Excuse me, based on the third of the applicable criteria. 02:12:21
Strike that. 02:12:27
Amend that motion to be not approve. 02:12:29
Based on the third of the four criteria that it is not. 02:12:33
That it. 02:12:38
Does affect? 02:12:40
The surrounding neighborhood. 02:12:43
In a material adverse manner. 02:12:45
As Commissioner Roach, just to clarify, you're making a motion to deny an application. 02:12:48
Or to forward a negative negative recommendation, I apologize. 02:12:55
Friendly amendment accepted. 02:13:02
I'll second that. 02:13:05
Alright, there has been a motion and it has been seconded. We will take a vote. 02:13:07
Commissioner Gong. 02:13:12
I'm confused. If I vote, I am agreeing with you. 02:13:14
If you vote, you're voting in favor of a negative recommendation. Voting in favor of the negative recommendation. 02:13:17
OK. 02:13:25
So I said no, right? You'd agree? 02:13:26
Commissioner Cunningham. 02:13:29
I. 02:13:30
We should. 02:13:31
Missioner Prince. 02:13:33
Aye. 02:13:35
Commissioner Banks, I. 02:13:36
Commissioner Vote wrote, also votes aye, and it is unanimous that we make a negative. 02:13:38
Recommendation to City Council in the zone. 02:13:44
Amendment request from the applicant. 02:13:47
Just just for clarity sake for the residents that are here, so the next step is this would go before the City Council and then the 02:13:49
City Council will ultimately approve or deny the rezone. 02:13:54
So. 02:14:00
This is just a recommendation from this body. 02:14:00
This is step one of the process. Step 2 comes before City Council and I assume is that this next meeting or will be a couple 02:14:03
meetings out. Do you anticipate? 02:14:08
It will not be the next meeting, it will be. 02:14:13
Not sure what they're. 02:14:17
Schedule is. 02:14:18
I think it's going to be in October. They set the agenda. 02:14:21
Likely October, Yeah. OK. 02:14:26
So what? Watch the newsletter if you're anticipating following up with the City Council meeting. 02:14:28
And with that, that will take us to the final. 02:14:34
Action on our agenda tonight, which is the approval of the meeting minutes from August 15th, 2023. 02:14:37
Every commissioner should have had an opportunity by now to take a look at those meeting minutes. Is there any recommendations or 02:14:46
suggested? 02:14:50
Updates that those are needed before finalized from any of the commissioners. 02:14:55
It does not appear that there are any. 02:15:02
Recommendations for changes. Can we just wait till we get the door shut? Sure. 02:15:05
Maybe. 02:15:13
OK. 02:15:17
We need to finish the meeting so you can just. 02:15:19
Thank you. 02:15:24
So if there are no recommendations to updates on the minutes, then unanimously, can we just vote all in favor, aye? 02:15:26
To approve them. 02:15:34
Aye, aye. 02:15:35
Alright, alright everybody there meetings are approved and with that I will invite a. 02:15:37
Motion to close the meeting. This is Commissioner Prince. I motion that we close our meeting this evening. All in favor? Aye. Aye. 02:15:45
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And this is Commissioner wrote. We'll we'll go ahead and get our work meeting started at 5:37 PM. We have everyone in attendance 00:00:00
except Commissioner Font who's excused and I believe. 00:00:05
We're missing Commissioner Gong. 00:00:11
I don't know if anyone's heard from her, so she might be attending late. 00:00:13
OK. 00:00:19
So with that, we will. 00:00:21
Get started and is a carrier, John, that's going to be presenting these items for us today. 00:00:24
I will be presenting the items. All right, Kerry, kick us off. 00:00:29
All right. 00:00:34
Item number one. Pretty straightforward on this one. This is a existing office building. 00:00:36
Ohh, under one ownership they are converting that to divide each office suite into separate ownership. So that requires a 00:00:43
conversion to condominium plat. 00:00:49
So this is a review of all in one essentially conceptual preliminary final. The final approval can be deferred to staff approval. 00:00:55
Any questions on that one? 00:01:06
And just a simple I'll go ahead, Murray. 00:01:10
I was just going to say to simplify it for me because I'm a simple stupid kind of guy. 00:01:13
Um, they are not doing any kind of building. They're not renovating, changing the structure in any way. They're literally just 00:01:17
doing paperwork so that they can. 00:01:21
Lease or sell rather than lease the units, right. So they do have building permits for each unit because they are doing 00:01:25
renovations or tenant improvements for those individual units. That's all handled under building permit. This is just for the 00:01:32
vertical plat to separate those into individual parcels essentially. 00:01:39
And and they've done all their paperwork, it looks like. And yes, had all the the T's crossed and eyes dotted. And yes, alright, 00:01:47
fantastic. What were you gonna ask Marty? 00:01:51
2nd. 00:02:07
The last one reads all improvements to meet current building code. 00:02:07
Is that it? 00:02:12
Suggested. 00:02:15
Or is that a? 00:02:16
After the fact included. 00:02:17
So that is just handled under their building permits. 00:02:19
That's handled with their building permits. 00:02:24
So when the building official reviewed this application, he just said that. 00:02:27
It's required to meet building code any improvements that they make. 00:02:33
Managed under their building permits. 00:02:39
Why we mentioned the? 00:02:45
Where? 00:02:47
Is that a suggestion that would include that as a condition of business? 00:02:49
It's somewhat yes, because it is included in the checklist. So when they're submitting their application to convert to a 00:02:54
condominium, it's it states on there, but any improvements made to meet building code. So that's just the building official 00:03:01
confirming that all improvements that will be done in the building. 00:03:08
In this in the conversion. 00:03:16
They'll all need the building code. 00:03:19
Above that under the Public Works City Engineer. 00:03:22
Section it says replacement of curb, gutter, sidewalk OK. 00:03:25
Is that a conclusion or just? 00:03:30
Again, something that. 00:03:32
To be down and going forward. 00:03:34
No, it wouldn't need to be done as part of their condo plat. It's. 00:03:36
Just to conclusion that the city engineer made looking at their checklist saying yes, this is fine. 00:03:42
Thanks. 00:03:50
And when anyone goes to make a motion, it's the staff findings that. 00:03:52
We need to bring up. 00:03:56
Not the. 00:03:58
TRC report above that. Is that right? 00:04:00
Right. You're just doing the findings that are in the staff findings under the recommendation, OK. 00:04:03
Perfect. 00:04:08
Any other questions on the first item? 00:04:09
Alright. 00:04:12
Care if you want to take just a second real quick chair? 00:04:13
So if you notice that it's the. So this is the concept, preliminary and final plat all at once. 00:04:16
So. 00:04:22
You can approve them. 00:04:23
And be done or you can. 00:04:25
You know if if the Planning Commission finds that some of them aren't completed. 00:04:27
I don't think that would be the case, but if you did, you could separate those out to. 00:04:32
It's noted. Appreciate that, council if. 00:04:36
There is any concern with approving all three tonight we can. 00:04:39
Reduce that back in whatever stages we feel like need additional. 00:04:43
Oversight to come through us, but it sounds like staff has. 00:04:48
Definitely gone through the. 00:04:52
Motions on this one. 00:04:54
Thank you. 00:04:56
OK. Second item is a zone map amendment. This is a rezone on Westmore Rd. from public to R110. 00:04:57
It's a church property that the church is selling, so the applicant. 00:05:07
Or the property then requires a rezone. 00:05:13
Since the use of a church would be discontinued. 00:05:17
So that is. 00:05:21
The application on that one, Does anyone have any questions on that item? 00:05:23
The first page of the staff report. 00:05:29
Office. 00:05:34
Back from the. 00:05:36
Previous template. 00:05:38
On the second page. 00:05:42
I think it's the. 00:05:46
Second column is grayed out. 00:05:51
Property. 00:05:56
Zoning. 00:05:57
As the property owners only general plan district. 00:05:59
Maybe I'm calling it Ohh. 00:06:02
Right here. 00:06:05
So ohh on the cover sheet. 00:06:08
Ohh yeah. 00:06:12
Sorry. 00:06:13
Yeah, it looks like that was probably just the leftover from the first. 00:06:14
Application just didn't get changed. 00:06:17
Yeah, that's a drop down list. 00:06:19
It's alphabetical order, so I probably slipped and hit PO rather than public. 00:06:22
In public. In public, yeah. Yeah. 00:06:26
Is there any requirements to get that fixed or is that just something you can adjust in the final report? 00:06:31
Yeah, it's just, it's just being as a cover letter. So that shows gives you an opportunity to separate the staff report out. It 00:06:36
doesn't really has no bearing on the application at all, OK. 00:06:41
It's just an administrative thing. 00:06:47
Good call out, Marty. Thank you. 00:06:49
And then this is just defaulting to the R110 zone that it's already in surrounding the area, right? Yes, OK. 00:06:53
Any other questions on? 00:06:59
I had. This is Commissioner Prince. I had a question. 00:07:01
In terms of the streets, Delaware and Westmore W West. 00:07:04
Yes, Westmore. 00:07:10
Did they ever connect? 00:07:12
I am not sure if they did a how long that church has existed there. 00:07:15
It looks like it's been. I mean, that's not a. 00:07:21
Current style, certainly. 00:07:24
Yeah, because it does kind of bulb out like a circle wood. Uh-huh. I just didn't know if that may have existed in that way prior 00:07:28
to the church and built there. 00:07:33
I shouldn't know if that was something that we had information available to us about. OK. But the current property that we're 00:07:39
reviewing tonight is located on Westmore officially, even though it can be accessed on Delaware. You can get to it. Yeah, OK. 00:07:45
There's one question. 00:07:53
Department. 00:07:57
Outside. 00:08:00
Right across the street in an easement between. 00:08:04
Not the one on the corner, but the one next to the one on the corner, I believe, right? 00:08:08
Yeah. 00:08:12
OK. 00:08:14
OK. 00:08:15
OK, ready to move to item 3? This is another zoning map amendment request for a rezone from the R143 zone to R110. 00:08:17
Located on 4980 S and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. 2 neighboring parcels. 00:08:29
These two parcels don't conform to the R143 size. They are currently .55 acres and .7. 00:08:37
0 acres. 00:08:47
Um. 00:08:48
The applicant's intent is to. 00:08:50
With the smaller minimum lot size under the R110 zone to shift some of the property from each of those parcels onto the back 00:08:53
property that fronts onto Cottonwood Drive. 00:09:00
So in order to do that, they would need a. 00:09:09
An R110 zone. 00:09:13
The proposal brings the property line. 00:09:14
So it will follow there's a property to the South side. 00:09:20
That. 00:09:25
One of the properties you can see has that kind of L shape that comes down. 00:09:26
That is the. 00:09:31
Maybe, John, do you want to bring up the assessors map on that that shows the? 00:09:33
That third the South property which isn't in the application. 00:09:41
That property is .40 acres. 00:09:45
The applicants proposal will make. 00:09:48
There are two parcels. 00:09:51
About that same size. 00:09:53
So creating a straight line across. 00:09:56
Their parcel so it takes the jug. 00:09:59
The applicants are David and Stephanie Bywater. 00:10:03
Ohh the. 00:10:06
The South one. 00:10:08
This one. 00:10:10
We can 250-5037 is that Oh oh on South side one to the north John. 00:10:13
Down. 00:10:24
You. 00:10:25
It's this this one. 00:10:26
That one, Yeah. 00:10:28
Zero 41, yeah. 00:10:30
And they're not part of the application, so they're basically. 00:10:36
Go up like that, but the property line being proposed would follow essentially that O 42 and O32 are the impacted properties 00:10:40
besides O 44. Is that correct? Yes. 00:10:46
So that Ohh, sorry go the property that's on the north they access. 00:10:55
Their property through the Holiday Pines PUD. 00:11:01
And the holiday Holiday Pines is zoned as R110. 00:11:06
Right. 00:11:20
Cover. Cover. 00:11:22
1st. 00:11:24
2nd. 00:11:27
Approval. 00:11:31
Drop down to. 00:11:35
Under the General Plan of Bootable Analysis. 00:11:38
There are 1/2. 00:11:42
3/4 paragraphs. 00:11:43
5 paragraphs, the 4th one starts considering the size. 00:11:44
Yes. 00:11:50
And then? 00:11:51
About halfway between that and the adjacent property on the South side. 00:11:54
.4 acres. 00:11:58
Staff believes that the parcels in question could. 00:12:00
Reasonably. 00:12:03
Would be considered. 00:12:05
All within the residential single family. 00:12:06
Stable. 00:12:09
Just as reasonably. 00:12:13
Be considered otherwise? 00:12:15
Or the other. 00:12:19
So that is that circled area on Figure 2. 00:12:20
You can see that the. 00:12:26
Area that. 00:12:29
Is the protected area curves down? 00:12:30
There's not property boundaries on there to make a firm determination with the size of those properties being non conforming to 00:12:36
the R143 zone. That is what that basis was. 00:12:44
Or what that decision was based on to be within the stable zone? 00:12:53
If you wanted to go by the what the zone is. 00:13:02
Then it would. 00:13:08
Involved within likely. 00:13:10
Be more likely to fall within the protected zone. 00:13:12
Or the protected area. 00:13:15
However, it'd be non compliant for the size of homes that are currently in that zone that exists today, right? 00:13:20
See, I don't know that I I when you look at the. 00:13:32
It's the aerial map. 00:13:36
Like the where you pulled up the assessor stuff, John. 00:13:39
When you look at that, you can see a street that corresponds to one of to that. 00:13:42
The image with the protected and the stable and it looks like it would. 00:13:51
I see what you're saying that there's a reasonable. 00:13:57
You could reasonably say it falls within the. 00:14:00
The. 00:14:04
Smaller not the protected, but the stable. 00:14:06
Zone. 00:14:09
If you kind of tried to overlay the two of them together, ohh wow, good job John. Yeah so I believe this one. 00:14:10
They should be labeled. I'm not sure why we don't have labels that is. Actually, that's Cottonwood Lane, Cottonwood. 00:14:17
The curved one that's on the east side of. 00:14:23
Of holiday Blvd. That kind of curves down to the South. That one's Flamingo. 00:14:28
And then the older one that's more toward the bottom is Casto. 00:14:36
I think you could make the case that. 00:14:41
It could fall within the stable zone because of where we're talking about. 00:14:44
OK. 00:14:52
This Commissioner Roach, just for those that weren't here 12 months ago or just shy of when. 00:14:53
The bywaters originally came in. 00:14:59
For. 00:15:02
Approval on the basketball barn that they were building in their backyard. This is essentially adjacent immediately to it and I 00:15:03
believe this is allowing them to kind of put some more buffer around that structure. 00:15:09
Yeah, which? Which? 00:15:16
Sort of prompted the question on my part. 00:15:20
About. 00:15:22
Why it wasn't raised there? 00:15:24
Some incremental creep or what? 00:15:26
Question that's a That's a question we can ask the applicant, but I believe at the time there was some concerns about. 00:15:28
And I could be mistaken on this, but it vaguely memory fading here's. 00:15:36
Accurate. Then I think there was something concerned about the building height. 00:15:41
At that time. 00:15:45
And by pushing out their property line a little bit more, that allows for that additional height without. 00:15:46
Conforming to additional requirements per the quote code. Does that sound right, John? 00:15:51
I mean, yes, I mean you theoretically, yeah, you soon as you're building heights or your lot sizes get larger, buildings get 00:15:59
larger, but accessory buildings are maxed at 20 feet regardless. 00:16:04
If they can move it within the building pad of the. 00:16:10
Of the house. And yeah, they can go up to like 40 feet. 00:16:12
But if it's shoved way far in the back then they regardless of how big their lot size is, it's it. It limit maxes out of 20. 00:16:16
I remember the discussion of the Basketball Barn. I do not remember what we ended up. 00:16:24
Doing. 00:16:30
About. 00:16:31
It was the size. The footprint size was a conditional use permit. 00:16:32
Right. I just didn't remember if that actually gone ahead and built it or not. Yeah, OK, yeah, there was approved, approved it. 00:16:36
So now they're they're coming back and and they want to just basically change some property lines that look to conform. 00:16:44
With the the zones that are there, but we can have that discussion when the applicant comes up. 00:16:51
And they do have an approved building permit for the basketball barn and that's based off of their current lot size OK. 00:16:56
Thank you. I have a question about this one. 00:17:03
I'm related to the Bywater, so I figured I should recuse myself from that, but I don't know if there's like a formal. 00:17:06
Process to do that. 00:17:12
From that specific item. 00:17:15
So we had a planning commissioner, that was. 00:17:17
An architect on a project. 00:17:21
So. 00:17:23
He. 00:17:26
In that situation, when there's a financial relationship, it needs to be done, you know, in writing and it needs to be. But if 00:17:27
there's not a financial relationship and it's a familiar relationship. 00:17:33
You can note it and then I would recommend you recuse yourself, but I don't think you're actually required to but. 00:17:40
If I was advising you, which I am. 00:17:49
It would be noted on the record and then recuse yourself. OK, And I should have asked this earlier in the week or when I when we 00:17:53
first got the packet. 00:17:57
Is there a process for that or do we just say it? 00:18:01
You would just say it. You say, you know, I have a I have a potential conflict of interest on this particular matter. So I'm going 00:18:04
to accuse myself, OK, from any vote on this vote or discussion, that's how I would. 00:18:09
And you would only recuse yourself for item 3. 00:18:14
Yes. 00:18:16
Thank you. 00:18:18
All right, then the. 00:18:21
Any possibility? 00:18:24
State. 00:18:29
Future. 00:18:41
And. 00:18:43
Whatever they proposed for accessory buildings would have to meet standards with zoning. 00:18:52
With an increased property size, there are some changes that would. 00:19:00
That would. 00:19:06
Come about because of that, but it is mostly on lot coverage as a percentage. Setbacks are a percentage just based off of the lot 00:19:07
size. 00:19:11
So the larger the property. 00:19:16
You have larger setbacks that are required. 00:19:19
So by increasing that property size they would have an increase in in setbacks that would be required for any accessory building. 00:19:23
OK. 00:19:35
Any other questions on item number whenever we're on 3/3? 00:19:35
OK. And then finally the. 00:19:41
The the one we're all excited for this evening #4. 00:19:43
All right, so item number four is a rezone request for three properties. 00:19:47
One is at 4437 Butternut Road or Drive. 00:19:54
The other two 2475 E 4500 S. 00:19:59
And 2485 E 4500 S. 00:20:04
Three separate property owners that have joined an application going from R18 is what the the property on Butternut Rd. is zoned 00:20:08
as. The other two properties on 4500 S are zoned as R110. 00:20:16
The proposals to rezone all three as R28. 00:20:24
The R2 aid zone allows for a single family house on. 00:20:29
On 5000 square feet. 00:20:35
Or an attached. 00:20:37
Unit on. 00:20:40
8000 square feet. 00:20:42
This is Commissioner Prince. 00:20:47
I see that in the summary they. 00:20:49
These properties were initially historically zoned as R18. 00:20:52
But. 00:20:57
Now two and three are R110. What did that just happen when holiday was incorporated or just right? 00:20:59
Yes. Was there a reason that it was changed? Likely that most of the properties around that met the R2, the R110 lot size. 00:21:07
There was. 00:21:20
On the county's historical maps, there was a lot of variation in zones. There was little pockets of our two little pockets of R18. 00:21:21
You can see in the in the exhibit there, there's an R210 that's right across the street that is somewhat smaller. 00:21:30
So. 00:21:38
It was. 00:21:39
And maybe John can fill in on some of that rezoning or that zoning process with incorporation, but largely just to create more 00:21:40
consistent zones across larger areas. Historically, R1A, this wasn't an R110 that became an R18. 00:21:48
Historically, our 1/8 when we incorporated, we rezoned A majority of the city. 00:21:57
To closely resemble what the actual land use was. 00:22:02
In this case, because these are a little bit larger, lots R110. 00:22:05
Was selected for this area. 00:22:09
Much larger lots than R18 were. 00:22:13
So. 00:22:16
That's what the council at the time selected the zone scheme for this neighborhood to be R110. 00:22:17
Give us a. 00:22:26
3. 00:22:26
Edu. 00:22:28
Next year. 00:22:30
Right. 00:22:32
Um, so and then a larger discussion around a single family zone versus an R2 zone as we're. 00:22:33
Looking to rezone up to a R2R2. Zoning would allow for separate two separate units or however many dwelling units would be allowed 00:22:40
on a parcel based off of its size. 00:22:47
To be legally rentable. 00:22:53
The difference with an Adu, an internal Adu is rentable. 00:22:57
If the property owner lives on site. 00:23:03
An external Edu in order to be rentable under the current code. 00:23:06
Has to be located on a lot that is twice the size as the minimum lot size in the zone. 00:23:11
So if you have a 10,000 square foot property in an R10R110 zone and wanted to build a detached. 00:23:18
Accessory dwelling unit. You would not be able to rent that accessory dwelling unit because it's not on a parcel That's twice. 00:23:28
The size that's required for the for the zone. 00:23:36
So that's the difference with. 00:23:39
Between an internal accessory dwelling unit and what a property owner can do with an internal unit. 00:23:42
Versus an external dwelling unit, it's. 00:23:48
Much more difficult for a property owner to rent an external dwelling unit than an internal. 00:23:51
And even if the property owner lived on site. 00:23:57
They would for an external. They would still need to meet that requirement, Is that right? 00:24:01
So that's where an R2 zone would be more favorable because they could rent an external dwelling unit. 00:24:07
If they meet the lot size requirements for for that. 00:24:17
As long as it has 5000 square feet in an R28, for example, it would require. 00:24:20
To 10,000 square feet, yes. Yeah. Yeah. 00:24:26
Because it would be two separate dwelling units detached from each other. 00:24:30
In our packet we've got a future land use map. 00:24:36
Which the date I've. 00:24:40
When I looked it up I had 2000 on it and. 00:24:42
Or 2020, excuse me. 00:24:45
Alright. 00:24:48
Was that when this particular area was changed to the map we have, or was that a previous decision to? 00:24:49
2020. 00:24:57
Green now. 00:24:59
John, can I defer that question to you? Are you talking about the general plan map? 00:25:01
Yeah, the future land use map at 2.3 that we have in the packet. 00:25:05
Yeah, that's from the general plan, Yeah. So that that general plan map has had several iterations to it, but. 00:25:10
This area really hasn't changed. 00:25:17
In long raised land use. 00:25:19
Since 2009. 00:25:21
OK, so it's been there for a long time, but this is a the idea has been around at least till 2000 and 2010. 00:25:23
And in looking at that map. 00:25:30
It doesn't be. Didn't appear to be done with precision. 00:25:33
In the sense that it identified which lots. 00:25:37
Could or could not. 00:25:40
No. 00:25:42
General plans usually don't OK. They're more of a. 00:25:43
Sort of a blurry bubble chart type idea. 00:25:47
The one consistent thing I noticed Tell me if I'm wrong, but it's always on. 00:25:51
Major roads. 00:25:57
I think 66 feet is the holiday definition of a major Rd. 00:25:58
Major Rd. being a collectors, yes IS is 60 foot wide or wider. 00:26:05
OK. 00:26:09
Kerry, John, I don't think you've seen an application where. 00:26:13
Three property owners. 00:26:16
Consolidated. 00:26:17
Feedback on? 00:26:18
Presume that we've. 00:26:20
Derivative. 00:26:21
Granted. 00:26:23
Or. 00:26:25
Or is there an all or all or nothing? No, it's one application and just to remind on a rezone, the Planning Commission is making a 00:26:29
recommendation to the City Council. 00:26:33
Is a legislative, so the Council has to actually take this up, so. 00:26:38
But no, because it's a single application, it's an all or nothing. You either recommend all three. 00:26:42
The recommendation? 00:26:47
Say that again, even though we're just making a recommendation. 00:26:50
Yeah, yeah, I mean. 00:26:53
Yeah, you make a recommendation to all of it, I mean. 00:26:54
Yeah, it's one application, so you take it as one. 00:26:57
One decision. 00:27:01
Any other questions on item 4? 00:27:06
All right. 00:27:11
With that, I think we can. 00:27:12
Conclude our work meeting and unless anyone on the Commission needs a quick moment to. 00:27:14
Rest. 00:27:20
A quick moment, we will take a 2 minute break then before we get started with our official meeting. 00:27:22
That's right. 00:27:29
It's OK. 00:27:34
Uh. 00:27:35
Alright. 00:27:36
Yeah. 00:27:37
Sugar. Sugar. 00:27:39
They're closed as far as. 00:30:20
Yeah. 00:31:11
All right. 00:31:39
Everybody, OK? This is Commissioner Roach. 00:31:40
I'd like to. 00:31:44
I will see you. 00:31:46
Again. 00:31:47
Call the. 00:31:49
Meeting of our Planning Commission, September 19th, 2023 to order. 00:31:51
And we have 5 different items on our agenda tonight. 00:31:56
We have a. 00:32:01
Subdivide and then we have three zone amendments and then approval of minutes. 00:32:04
And before we get started with our meeting, I've asked Commissioner Bilinsky to. 00:32:09
Quickly read for us the kind of rules of the road that we follow as the Planning Commission. It's a requirement at the start of 00:32:14
all meetings. So with that if you would please. 00:32:18
I think you the City of Holiday Planning Commission. 00:32:22
Is a volunteer citizen board. 00:32:26
Whose function is to review land uses, plans and other special studies, make recommendation to the City Council on proposed zoning 00:32:28
maps. 00:32:33
An ordinance changes and approve conditional use. 00:32:37
And subdivisions. 00:32:42
The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications. 00:32:43
Rather acts on applications as they are submitted. 00:32:48
Commissioners do not meet with applicants except for at publicly noticed meetings. 00:32:51
Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda where the location the nature of the neighborhood. 00:32:57
Existing structures and uses related to the proposed changes are noted. 00:33:03
Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from professional planning staff. 00:33:08
The city's general plan, zoning ordinances and other reports by all verbal and written comments. 00:33:14
And by evidence submitted, all of which are a part of the public record. 00:33:22
Excellent. Thank you very much for that. I appreciate it. 00:33:27
And so with that, the first item that we have on our agenda tonight is the Highland 4040, excuse me, 4141 office condominium 00:33:30
subdivision. 00:33:35
And I'd like to ask Carrie Marsh to go ahead and give us a report on that, if she would. 00:33:40
Thank you, Commissioner Roach. 00:33:50
Presenting on. 00:33:52
The first item Highland 4141 office condominiums. 00:33:54
This is a subdivision, converting an existing office use from a single ownership into multiple ownerships. 00:33:59
For each office suite. 00:34:10
This requires a vertical plat to be recorded at Salt Lake County. 00:34:12
To create those 12 individual units from the existing so they can be individually owned. 00:34:19
Um. 00:34:26
The application has been reviewed by the Technical Review committee and the comments from each department has been noted in the 00:34:27
staff report. 00:34:31
And the tiers's recommendation is that the Commission hold the required planning or? 00:34:35
They're required public hearing and consider any comments presented by the public. 00:34:41
Staff has found that all of the required elements have been submitted and the application's been complete. 00:34:47
The TRC can therefore recommend that the Commission approve the preliminary subdivision plat as well as the, and then defer the 00:34:55
final plat to staff approval. 00:35:00
I will have the applicant come up and they can talk about the their application in more detail and answer any questions that the 00:35:07
Commission may have. 00:35:12
Thank you very much. And with that, do we have the applicant here tonight? 00:35:17
Hi, I'm Mike McFarland with Stout Building Contractors. I'm the project manager. 00:35:32
Performing some of the remodels that are under building permit already. 00:35:37
Mike, could I just ask you to give us your address, please? My address is 245 N Vine Street. 00:35:40
#102. 00:35:46
Salt Lake City. 00:35:47
84103 Excellent. Thank you. 00:35:49
All right. And if you want to, just give us a quick. 00:35:53
Version of what? Anything that you want to add to staff's report on. 00:35:57
What we're doing with this? 00:36:02
Or what you're applying for tonight. Yeah, as as Kerry mentioned, it's a an existing single owner office space. 00:36:04
Being converted into condominium spaces with some common areas. 00:36:11
That include the restrooms entrance. 00:36:15
Upgrades to the ADA access to the building. 00:36:18
And then each plat would be sold. 00:36:23
And another building permit would be required in order for those. 00:36:26
New new buyers to. 00:36:31
Remodel for their needs and. 00:36:33
Those upgrades for that? 00:36:37
So currently the project is doing the common spaces. 00:36:40
Upgrades to those which include the hallways. 00:36:44
Entrance entrances and emergency stair exits. 00:36:48
Upgrades to the railings and flooring for the common areas. 00:36:53
As well as. 00:36:57
New Windows, new facade to the building to modernize that. 00:36:58
Thank you. 00:37:04
Any questions from the commissioners? From the for the applicant? 00:37:05
OK. I think we can have you sit down. Thank you. 00:37:09
With that, we'll go ahead and open the public meeting. Any members of the public that are here to speak on this particular 00:37:12
application tonight or welcome to come up. 00:37:17
Do we have anyone here tonight that wishes to make a comment on this? 00:37:23
OK. 00:37:29
And does not look like we have anyone here tonight that wishes to speak on that. So with that, we'll go ahead and close the public 00:37:30
meeting. 00:37:33
And Commissioners, do we have any discussion on any of the? 00:37:37
Information that's been presented to us on this application. 00:37:43
Takes. 00:37:50
Good morning. 00:37:50
Mission Briggs. 00:37:51
I I think we're quite familiar with this application now and I don't have any concerns or questions and and and ready to make a 00:37:53
motion unless others have comments. 00:37:58
I think you're all set. Go ahead. 00:38:05
Commissioner Banks moves to approve. 00:38:08
The concept and preliminary plan. 00:38:11
Submitted by the applicant. 00:38:14
For the Highland 4141 office condominiums. 00:38:16
On. 00:38:20
4141 S Highland Drive. 00:38:22
Based on the. 00:38:25
Following six. 00:38:26
Bindings Commissioner Banks, did you want to approve the final plat as well? I'll defer that. We'll defer that for final 00:38:28
consideration after. 00:38:32
Or for the for the combined. 00:38:37
And the first of those six conditions being? 00:38:40
That the development details required for a preliminary and final site plan have been submitted and reviewed by the TRC. 00:38:43
The development complies with the regulations within the professional office zone of the city. 00:38:51
The development complies with the general plan. 00:38:58
4th. 00:39:01
The required submittals for conceptual and preliminary subdivision development have been provided where applicable and have been 00:39:02
found to be complete and acceptable. 00:39:07
5. 00:39:12
Fire access has been approved by the. 00:39:14
UEFA And lastly, 6 separate utility meters and shutoffs for each unit are not required. 00:39:17
In addition, I would also move. 00:39:25
That within one year and in accordance with the applicable ordinance to defer the administrative review and approval of the final 00:39:28
plat. 00:39:32
By the. 00:39:38
Community and Economic Development Director following a positive written recommendation from the DRC. 00:39:40
Commissioner Vichinsky, I second that motion. 00:39:48
OK, we have a motion and a second. With that we will call for a vote. Commissioner Gong. 00:39:52
Aye. 00:39:58
Commissioner Cunningham? Aye, aye. 00:39:59
Prince I thanks aye. And Commissioner Roach votes aye, so it is unanimous. 00:40:02
And. 00:40:12
You're all set. 00:40:13
Right. 00:40:18
Thank you very much. 00:40:18
That moves us to item number two on our agenda, which is a zone map amendment. 00:40:21
Rezoning it from. 00:40:28
P for public, is that right? Make sure I'm saying that right. OK. P for public space to an R110 at the property located at 4930 S 00:40:30
Westmore Road. And with that we will ask Carrie to come back up and provide some information and details on this. 00:40:37
Thank you, Commissioner Roach. 00:40:48
This application is for property located at 4930 S Westmore Rd. It is currently zoned as a public zone for its use as a church. 00:40:50
The applicant is requesting A rezone to R110 which matches this surrounding neighborhood. 00:40:58
The use of the church is being discontinued and so in order to facilitate development I would need to be rezoned out of a public 00:41:08
zone. 00:41:13
And. 00:41:18
It's 2.88 acres and. 00:41:20
The. 00:41:25
R110 zone requires a minimum lot size of 10,000 square feet. 00:41:26
The TRC has reviewed the rezone proposal and finds that it meets the. 00:41:31
The goals of the General Plan and staff is in favour of this application and. 00:41:37
That it moves from a public zone to R110. The applicant can come up and present their application and answer any questions that 00:41:45
the Commission may have. 00:41:50
Excellent. Thank you. And at this time we'd like to invite the applicant or their representative to come up. 00:41:55
And if you would, please state your name and your address for us. 00:42:01
My name is Benjamin Wheat. Address is 1214 E Vine St. Murray, UT. 00:42:10
Thank you. 00:42:15
And Benjamin, if you would be kind enough to just provide us any additional details that you think would be relevant for the 00:42:16
Commission in reviewing this, that you want to add additionally to what staff has presented? 00:42:20
No. The application is to, like Carry said, rezone it from its current use of the public down to an R110, which is all of the 00:42:26
surrounding. 00:42:30
Zones on all sides and so. 00:42:36
Pretty straightforward. 00:42:40
OK. 00:42:41
And Commissioners, any questions for the applicant at this time? 00:42:42
OK. That will go ahead and have your seat. Thank you. 00:42:46
And with that, we'll go ahead and open up our public meeting. As a reminder, before anyone comes up, we would ask that you keep 00:42:49
the. 00:42:54
Comments brief and to the applicable. 00:42:59
Requirements of a rezone request and take no longer than 3 minutes. And with that, are there any members of the public here today 00:43:04
that wish to make a comment on this property? 00:43:09
And if you would, please state your name and address. 00:43:22
My name is Harold Bateman. I live at 1694 Bunker Hill Rd. 00:43:27
And my question is, we've been told that there would be 9 separate individual lots. I just wanted to confirm that's still a case? 00:43:32
Staff is that something that we can confirm what would fit in there? 00:43:46
So the density on the property is determined by the property size. 00:43:51
And now the analysis for the size of the property is that it can accommodate up to 12. 00:43:57
Units that is dependent on or lots it's dependent on. 00:44:04
Road area that's removed from that, so that might go down to 11, but that would be the maximum amount of. 00:44:10
Units allowed. 00:44:17
So at this time we're entertaining with Mr. White or Wheat and he told us it would be 9 lots. Can he confirm that here in this 00:44:19
meeting? 00:44:24
We we can ask the applicant that I'm not sure is that something that is pertaining to the Commission can certainly ask if that's 00:44:31
the case but it's not necessarily binding it. The the rezone is the rezone is just the first stage right and then after that it. 00:44:39
Becomes, you know, depending on what the. 00:44:48
What's submitted from from the applicant on the next phase? Right, So OK. 00:44:51
Thank you. 00:44:54
All right. Thank you, Mr. Bateman. Were there any other public comments at this time? 00:44:56
OK. 00:45:03
And with that, then we'll go ahead and close the public meeting. 00:45:04
And Commissioners, is there any discussion or any questions to redirect to staff before we entertain a motion on this? 00:45:07
Just to comment, I think the question about how many lots is an important one for the future. 00:45:16
But since it's being rezoned in the same zoning as the surrounding neighborhoods, it should have the same feel, you know, the same 00:45:21
sort of character and feel as the surrounding neighborhood. Is that correct? 00:45:26
OK. 00:45:33
Any other questions or comments? 00:45:37
Is anyone prepared at this time to make a motion? 00:45:40
This is Commissioner Prince, I'd like to make a motion. 00:45:44
That we forward a positive recommendation to the City Council to approve an application from Benjamin Wheat. 00:45:47
To amend the holiday zoning map for 2.88 acres of land located at 4930 S Westmore Rd. From Public Zone to R110. 00:45:55
Based on the following findings. 00:46:07
The proposed zone amendment is consistent with the goals, objectives and policies of the General Plan of the City of Holiday. 00:46:09
The proposed amendment is harmonious with the overall character of existing development in the vicinity. 00:46:17
The proposed amendment is not foreseen to adversely affect a budding properties. 00:46:23
An adequate facilities and services exist and will be part of any future subdivision. 00:46:28
That is proposed after the amendment. 00:46:34
Marty Banks seconds the motion. 00:46:36
All right, we have a motion and a second. With that we will call for a vote starting to my right, Commissioner Gong. 00:46:38
Commissioner Cunningham, Aye, Machinsky. 00:46:45
Prince aye, thanks aye. And Commissioner Roach votes aye, making it a unanimous in favour for the recommendation. 00:46:49
Thank you very much. 00:46:56
All right. 00:47:01
We have another zone amendment as item number three, this time from an R143 to an R110. 00:47:02
And we will once again ask the. 00:47:11
City staff. 00:47:14
Representative to come up and give us a report on this. 00:47:16
Thank you Commissioner Roach. This zoning request amendment is for property located at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. 00:47:24
The zoning request is to go from R143. 00:47:36
Zoning going from R143 to R110. 00:47:46
The properties. 00:47:50
It's 2 adjacent parcels. 00:47:52
4980 the property size is .70 acres and 4990 is .55 acres. 00:47:55
The applicants are seeking to rezone the two properties from R143, which has a minimum lot size of 1 acre, to the R110 zone, which 00:48:03
has a minimum lot size of 10,000 square feet. 00:48:08
Currently both properties are non conforming to their existing zone. 00:48:15
The applicant intends to rezone in order to adjust a property line boundary between a neighbouring property on Cottonwood Blvd. 00:48:20
Umm. 00:48:30
The general plan refers to this area as a residential low density, stable. 00:48:32
It is on a boundary of a protected area. 00:48:38
The properties directly to the north of the. 00:48:42
4980 parcel is zoned as R110, so these two properties about that R110 zone. 00:48:46
Um. 00:48:54
The low density residential stable zone does support rezoning for unclaimed density of it's not in. 00:48:55
Foreseeing that any additional density would be added with this zone change. 00:49:04
The technical review committee recommends. 00:49:11
That the rezoning request be forwarded with a +2 City Council. 00:49:15
Based off of. 00:49:23
The findings in the General Plan. 00:49:25
And the applicants are invited to come up and present their application and answer any questions and then move to a public 00:49:27
hearing. 00:49:32
Thank you very much, Kerry. And with that, we'd like to invite the applicant to come up and provide any additional insights on 00:49:36
this or representative thereof. If you would, please state your name and address. 00:49:41
Yes, my name is Brian Hebden. I'm the architect for the Bywaters. My offices are located at 740 E 3900 S in Mill Creek, Utah. 00:49:48
So we were rezoning this as part of just sort of a grander opportunity for them to just have. 00:49:55
The ability to be able to add a detached structure in the back of the property, so we'd be able to. 00:50:01
Move a lot line in the future if they wanted to be able to do that. So that's really the. 00:50:05
Purpose of it as well as these two laws are currently nonconforming, so we'd be moving them into a conforming property. 00:50:10
In which the lots to the north and to the east. 00:50:16
Oh, sorry about that. OK. So I was just saying that these two properties currently do not conform to the zone in which they 00:50:20
reside. They're grandfathered in. However, our ultimate goal is to allow for them to have a little bit of flexibility if they want 00:50:26
to be able to build a future detached structure in their backyard property, which we would take a little bit of property from one 00:50:32
or two of these or both of these properties to add to their current existing properties they own. 00:50:39
These properties plus the one that currently sitting on. 00:50:45
Commissioner Prince, just a brief question so you'd be taking. 00:50:49
Land from these existing two lots on holiday Blvd. to add to a property that the addresses on Cottonwood Lane correct for 00:50:54
additional yes having the opportunity to do that and we're currently doing some studies right now to do that. 00:51:02
And even with removal of it, they would maintain the allowable size restriction of that R110 zone. 00:51:13
And does the Commissioner Cunningham does the. 00:51:21
Conceptual plan that you're talking about with another another building. 00:51:25
Will that impinge on the protected area there at all? 00:51:30
I do not believe it would impinge on that. 00:51:34
Any other questions for the applicant? 00:51:39
This is Commissioner Roach. I have one question just to clarify. So the applicant had come or the the property owner had come 00:51:43
before us just shy of a year ago in terms of what was dubbed a basketball barn. Would this additional land, the additional 00:51:48
structure you're talking about, is this in addition to no, that would be relocating it from that property and putting it into 00:51:53
these new? 00:51:58
Parcels. So that that's the reason why we're doing, we're moving it off of that particular property which would really become too 00:52:04
dense in the backyard of that area. So that's why we're wanting to move it into. 00:52:09
Taking some land from these two current properties and putting it into their yard rather than on a different property. 00:52:14
That makes sense. Hopefully that was clear. 00:52:20
Go ahead, Commissioner. Well, so would does that mean that you'll be coming back to us with a new proposal regarding the 00:52:24
Basketball Barn in a new location? Is that what I just heard? It shouldn't have to because by adding this to that property, there 00:52:29
wouldn't have to be any. We would be able to maintain proper setbacks, height restrictions and all that. So this gives us a much 00:52:35
more greater flexibility so that there is no variance as a request for heights or anything like that. That would be the ultimate 00:52:41
goal. 00:52:46
The whole port. 00:52:52
Because that was the reason why it was brought last time, was the height request. 00:52:54
And with what I recall as originally approved back in, I want to say November last year, I know there was some concerns about 00:52:59
trees and the the tree ordinance with this rezone, it looks like it's a fairly wooded area. 00:53:06
They're back on these two properties. 00:53:13
That impact what was approved back then as far as the tree ordinance preservation and that's a question either for you or city 00:53:16
staff. 00:53:21
So these are the majority of the trees back. There are quite small caliper trees. They're more like scrub oak styles trees, and 00:53:27
it's part of their Grander Re landscaping. They would be adding more foliage to their current backyard as well, and then 00:53:32
preserving the foliage that's in the original proposed location. We'll be able to maintain all that foliage, if not add additional 00:53:38
foliage there as well. 00:53:44
OK. 00:53:50
Can I follow up, having not been on the Commission when that earlier discussion happened? 00:53:51
Could you tell me what a basketball barn is and whether it has any? Right. So a basketball ball is used. Yeah. No, not a 00:53:56
commercial use. Absolutely not. So this is essentially is a space in which they'd be able to play. 00:54:02
With their family, basketball, pickleball, you know have some fun spaces in the back there as well as if. 00:54:09
They wanted to have wedding reception or something like that for family members to come in and do it. No, it is not a. 00:54:15
Nobody's buying passes. Nobody's buying anything like this. This is just purely for personal use. 00:54:21
And then the follow up to that and so if you move the location from what was previously approved. 00:54:27
Which this rezone would allow the lot lines to move. 00:54:33
Will they have any potential impact on neighbors in terms of the closeness of the noise or it's actually further away from more 00:54:39
neighbors than anything so? 00:54:43
Adds it to a larger piece of parcel, but currently the original parcel location was a small and partial parcel. Their current 00:54:50
parcel that they own right now. By allowing and adding more land to their current parcel, it gives more flexibility, gives more 00:54:55
privacy as well as. 00:55:01
And there's really not going to be much noise at all with it, right? Because it's all an interior sports score. 00:55:06
It wouldn't be an exterior, it would be all inside a building. 00:55:12
This Commissioner Prince, and this question may be better directed to city staff. 00:55:16
Tonight, what we are being asked to consider is the zone amendment for the two properties. 00:55:22
Any issue with moving a lot line is not. 00:55:28
Under it is not before the Commission tonight. 00:55:34
But it's interesting. OK. Thank you. 00:55:37
And it does subway into the. 00:55:40
Impacts that it would have and considering the rezoning request. 00:55:44
So. 00:55:48
Excellent questions. Any other questions for the applicant at this time? 00:55:49
No. 00:55:53
What's that? OK, I think we're good to go ahead. Thank you. Appreciate it. And with that, we will open the public comment or 00:55:55
public meeting portion. 00:55:58
I know that there was one comment that was submitted right at the beginning of the meeting, and I believe the gentleman's here if 00:56:03
he wants to come up. If you would, please state your name and address for the record. 00:56:08
My name is John Crandall at 4956 Holiday Pines. I live in the PUD just adjacent to 49804980 shares of Rd. with the Holiday Pines 00:56:15
PUD. My day job is I'm an investment banker, Andrea Tax-exempt Bonds, so I've spent a lot of time in front of cities throughout 00:56:23
the state, but I've spent very little time with the P&Z, so. 00:56:31
My expertise is definitely not in planning and zoning. 00:56:39
But there are a couple things that. 00:56:43
I am concerned about is if the zone change occurs and there isn't a property line readjustment. 00:56:45
Then there could be how many homes built on these two parcels. 00:56:52
If I understand it correctly, it's going to be the square feet basically divided by 10,000, so you're talking. 00:56:56
Maybe three homes on the first parcel. 00:57:03
And then? 00:57:06
Through Yourself Homes on the 2nd Parcel based on the. 00:57:07
1. 00:57:12
Zoning, Is that correct? 00:57:13
That's a great question. Let's city staff if you want to refer to or answer that. 00:57:15
Yes. So with the 10,000 square foot lot minimum size rezoning would. 00:57:21
Um. 00:57:28
Make that .70 part parcel that's on the South side potentially could be subdivided into 3. 00:57:30
And the one on the north? 00:57:38
Being sized at 23,000 square feet could be divided into two. 00:57:41
And so since that's, you know it's a step process, you have to look at the rezone now and then maybe there is a rebound or there 00:57:47
maybe there's not. 00:57:50
Sewer is a real problem in this area. The 4980 is connected to the PUD sewer right now. 00:57:55
Because that home was a septic system. 00:58:01
And so for the the. 00:58:04
The 4980 house is connected to the PUD sewer system. 00:58:08
And that's a holding tank pump system because it's below grade at Holiday Blvd. So it's, I can tell you that it's, it's not a 00:58:13
perfected system. It's something that is expensive and causes problems and no one wants to have problems with their sewer, but 00:58:19
that does happen. 00:58:24
Occasionally. 00:58:30
I'm not sure if the house to the South of it. 00:58:32
Is on what kind of system, but if there is a septic field like 4980 used to have? 00:58:35
Then, you know, how far does that septic go West? 00:58:41
And you certainly wouldn't want to divide property that divides a septic system onto someone else's parcel at some point in the 00:58:45
future. I'm sure staff has looked into that, but that is a question that should be looked into. 00:58:51
So my concern is really I really don't have a lot of concern other than the 4980 if there is a A2 parcel building lot built there, 00:58:59
that's going to cause problems for the R PUD with regard to the sewer system. 00:59:05
All right. Thank you very much, John. Appreciate it. And just to clarify if there was a subdivide application. 00:59:13
That would go back through the city. That's not what's being considered tonight, correct? 00:59:20
Right. So a rezone is what is being considered tonight. Subdivision would be a separate public hearing, a separate process, 00:59:25
correct. Thank you. And at this time? 00:59:30
There's no increase in density. 00:59:36
From what's already existing. 00:59:38
With the rezone, but it does open the door for future. 00:59:40
Changes to that based on the lot size, which again would have to go back through city staff. 00:59:44
Chair one other comment. So. 00:59:50
The challenge what they're what they're planning to do. You have a legal nonconforming situation. So in order for them to do a lot 00:59:53
line adjustment, they have to bring. 00:59:57
Because they're making a change, they have to bring those lots into conformity with something. 01:00:01
And their proposed the proposed amount of property that they're taking. 01:00:05
From the other two and adding it to the Cottonwood. 01:00:10
Drive property. 01:00:13
Necessitates. 01:00:15
A zone change. 01:00:17
Right. So in order to accomplish their ultimate goal of. 01:00:18
You know of the lot line adjustment, which doesn't come before the Planning Commission, but in order to do that you have to get it 01:00:22
to a zone that is current and that fits with those. 01:00:26
And the closest one. 01:00:31
That still meets with those minimums is the R110. 01:00:33
So we looked at the R123. 01:00:36
And it just didn't have enough property on the one to to meet that level. 01:00:38
And it was consistent with and there's not a 123 around there, it's forward 43 or it's R110. 01:00:42
So that's. 01:00:49
That's kind of the way we got to this point. 01:00:49
Excellent. Appreciate the clarification. 01:00:52
And with that, is there any other public comments on this property this evening? 01:00:55
OK. With that, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing. And commissioners, any questions or discussion? 01:01:01
I just want to disclose a familial connection. Stephanie is my cousin. 01:01:08
So I'll recuse myself from the discussion and the voting. 01:01:14
Excellent. 01:01:18
I appreciate that. 01:01:19
Commissioners, any other questions? Comments. 01:01:21
Alrighty with that if anyone's prepared to make a motion if I could. 01:01:25
Just explore in my mind. 01:01:30
None of the representations today are legally binding on the property owner. 01:01:34
About what their future intentions are. 01:01:39
But from our standpoint. 01:01:43
And neither is, neither is. I mean you're the this is step one of the rezone process from Planning Commission. You make a 01:01:46
recommendation, right? They have to go before the City Council to ultimately gain approval there before there is an actual zone 01:01:50
change, right? 01:01:54
And. 01:01:59
So. 01:02:01
The reason they want to do it? 01:02:03
As long as a reason is. 01:02:05
To bring the nonconforming. 01:02:08
Or. 01:02:10
Lots into compliance is legally sufficient. 01:02:12
Is anyone in prepared to make a motion on this? 01:02:23
Commissioner Wilchinski and we'll make a motion to forward a recommendation to the City Council. 01:02:27
To approve an application by Stephanie and David Bywater to amend the holiday zoning map. 01:02:33
4.55 and point. 01:02:39
17 acres of land. 01:02:41
Located at 4980 and 4990 S Holiday Blvd. 01:02:43
From R143 to R110 based upon the following findings. 01:02:48
The proposed own amendment is consistent with the goals, objectives and policies of the General Plan. The proposed zone amendment 01:02:54
is harmonious with the overall character of existing development in the vicinity. 01:03:00
The proposed zone amendment does not substantially affect a budding properties. 01:03:07
The proposed facilities and services are adequate for the zone amendment. 01:03:12
This is Commissioner Prince. I'll second that motion. All right, we have a motion and it has been seconded. 01:03:18
With that, we will call for a vote then Commissioner Cunningham. 01:03:24
Aye. 01:03:28
Commissioner Buchinsky. 01:03:29
Commissioner Prince aye, Commissioner Banks aye. And Commissioner Roche votes aye, So the favorable recommendation passes 01:03:31
unanimously. 01:03:35
Thank you very much. 01:03:41
And before we get into the 4th item on the agenda this evening, which I suspect there's still several members of the public that 01:03:48
wish to comment on, I'm just anticipating could be wrong, Does anyone need a quick two-minute recess before we move into that? 01:03:56
OK. 01:04:05
Just figured I'd check. All right. So with that we will move into the. 01:04:05
Next item. 01:04:10
And that is the zone amendment from. 01:04:11
Or 18 to R28 located at Butternut. And with that we will ask city staff to come up and give us a report on that. 01:04:15
Thank you, Commissioner Roach. 01:04:28
This application for a zone map amendment is located at. 01:04:30
OR involves properties at 4437 S, Butternut at 2475 E, 4500 S and 2485 E 4500 South. It's an application being brought by the 01:04:35
three individual property owners together in one application. 01:04:44
They are proposing to change the zone from R18 which is the zone for the property on 4437 S butternut and R110 which is the zone 01:04:53
on the. 01:04:59
Two properties on 4500 S. 01:05:06
The the request is to change the zone for all three of those properties to R28. 01:05:09
And. 01:05:15
The properties are located on 4500 S It is a narrow 20 foot wide. 01:05:17
Access Rd. 01:05:24
I guess the. 01:05:26
Actual Rd. is labeled on maps as 4770. 01:05:28
444470 01:05:33
um. 01:05:35
The. 01:05:37
The intent of the property owners is to either utilize existing structures or dwelling units, or to be able to create an 01:05:40
additional dwelling unit on their individual properties. 01:05:46
The maximum amount of additional dwelling units that could be gained by this rezone is 5. 01:05:53
There is within the. 01:06:02
Restrictions would apply for each property based off of attached units or detached units, each of those requiring either A6000 or, 01:06:04
sorry, 5000 square feet for a detached unit. 01:06:11
Per unit and 4000 square feet for an attached unit per unit. 01:06:18
Of each. 01:06:23
This is Commissioner Prince. I'm going to interrupt and just ask one clarifying question. 01:06:24
There are currently 3. 01:06:29
Properties with three structures. 01:06:32
Right. 01:06:35
One of which has a. 01:06:36
Unit in their. 01:06:38
Basement. The garage. 01:06:40
Right, so there would be a maximum of. 01:06:41
Two additional properties that could be added. 01:06:44
Right, overall, when considering this group of three lots. So it's based off of the size of each property, looking at the property 01:06:48
size for the property on butternut. 01:06:55
Their existing lot size would not enable an additional unit to be added unless they increase their property size. 01:07:02
Or attached that dwelling unit that's underneath their garage in some way. 01:07:12
So that is just based off of the size of that property. So there are some. 01:07:17
Additional adjustments that would have to be made in order for that. 01:07:23
Unit that's underneath the garage to be legally rentable. 01:07:27
The middle property. 01:07:32
Is. 01:07:35
.4 acres I believe are around .4 acres. 01:07:36
More options there where they could do either two separate. 01:07:41
Attached units, so total of 4 units there. Or they could do a single family unit and to attach units. 01:07:46
The property size then enables just different configurations. 01:07:54
Or options for them. 01:07:58
Maximum of four units on that property. 01:08:00
The final property at 2485. 01:08:04
Would be eligible for one more single family unit being added. 01:08:10
Thank you. 01:08:15
Within the general plan, these properties are identified in an area that. 01:08:18
That is suggested for rezone 2A2 family zone. 01:08:27
This area also would need a moderate income housing goal and strategy. There is a bus stop that is located on this same. 01:08:31
Or on the corner of 45th South. 01:08:43
And Butternut Rd. So this is along a transit corridor. 01:08:46
So enabling a rezone on a on a transit corridor meets a moderate income housing strategy. 01:08:51
The. 01:08:59
Technical Review committee did review the plan. One concern is with the narrow Rd. that's between the park and the properties. 01:09:01
Um. 01:09:11
The additional units would not cause a increased amount of traffic beyond. 01:09:12
And it would be negligible. 01:09:19
The. 01:09:22
Roadway would still be able to be used for by the neighbors for cross traffic. They most area or most neighbors in the area use 01:09:24
that roadway to go between Wander Lane and Butternut Rd. 01:09:31
The parking would all be managed on site if any additional units are added and there is no parking on the park side of that road. 01:09:39
Most parking for that park should occur on 45th South, where there is a. 01:09:48
Large area for parking in the shoulder. 01:09:53
The technical Review Committee and staff recommend that this application be forwarded with a positive recommendation for City 01:09:56
Council. 01:09:59
And we'll have the applicant come and discuss their application and answer any questions. 01:10:04
Thank you. And with that, because there are three different applicants as there are representative for all three. Or will all 01:10:11
three be coming up? 01:10:15
Is 1 applicant that is representing all three. And another note on this one as well is that there are additional public comments 01:10:20
that were included in a packet that each of you received just so that you. 01:10:27
Ensure that you're reviewing those and then they will be added to the public record. They don't need to be read in, but they will 01:10:33
be part of the public record. 01:10:37
Excellent. Thank you very much. And with that, we'll go ahead and ask the representative to come up and state name and address 01:10:40
please. 01:10:43
Thank you. My name is Dan Kemp. I live at 4437 Butternut. 01:10:51
And so the reason why this actually came about is we purchased that property recently. 01:10:57
And as you know, it is already configured with an AUD detached unit under the garage. 01:11:03
And so we were excited about the possibility of utilizing our own property to rent that out. 01:11:10
Unfortunately, we were. 01:11:17
Sort of told that it was rentable before we moved in. We found out subsequently that is not based on city code at the current 01:11:20
moment, so. 01:11:24
This came about from swanning to figure out how to do this properly and legally. 01:11:28
And so we wanted to figure out how to make that usable. 01:11:33
Since then there's been some changes as well, but. 01:11:39
I was also it was also brought to my attention that the neighbors to the east at 40274075 and 2485. 01:11:42
We're possibly interested in the same rezone. 01:11:51
So we decided to join together to ask that as a. 01:11:54
Together since it's consistent with the general plan and is in the area on the map and the plan where it shows that R2 is 01:11:59
available and possible. 01:12:03
So my particular lot I'll speak about kind of all three because I do know what their, their plans are, my particular lot is. 01:12:08
Was that apparently 8000 square feet? Initially, a little bit of land was given back to the city. 01:12:18
To make it actually about 160 feet square feet short of that. So really doesn't even fit in the hard 18 anymore. But if it's our 01:12:25
two way. 01:12:30
I've been now informed that with the AU, since it's detached and not attached, it's the requirement to rent out both. 01:12:37
Properties at the same time are not possible because it would require 10,000 square feet. 01:12:47
So unless there were lot line changes, which based on the other situation I guess is possible but not probable for our situation. 01:12:53
But we'd like to still move forward, because I know that the other participants are still interested in their lot. There are lots 01:13:01
being. 01:13:05
Changed. 01:13:10
My particular lot would probably only be able to be at this moment, I still. 01:13:11
Can't utilize the AU and rent it, which is unfortunate. However, I do know that there is a possibility that perhaps next week. 01:13:16
There's a text change amendment that may be brought forward because the city is perhaps wants to make AU's a little more possible 01:13:26
to be able to be utilized at with smaller lot sizes. So that would in fact enable me to be able to utilize it. If I we are living 01:13:32
on property we could rent out the AU at a separate time, that's a separate matter. But I just bring that up because I won't be 01:13:38
here next week when that is brought up to your attention but. 01:13:44
As far as the other two, lots. 01:13:51
There are. 01:13:53
I know that 27 or 2475. 01:13:55
They spoke to me and said that they just wanted to add one more family home for their kids so they could both. 01:13:59
Have their families living on the same property with two units. 01:14:06
And I know that the. 01:14:09
Owner of 2485 intends to build something similar to my situation with a detached. 01:14:11
Structured garage with something underneath or on top. 01:14:18
Where they could rent out that one location as well. I know that there's some concerns that I've seen in. 01:14:21
The packet that we're also addressing. 01:14:28
Traffic and the street usage and parking and such. So actually none of those. 01:14:32
Concerns really would apply at this moment, just because we're looking at the zone change and not, I mean, not trying to. 01:14:39
Put up any different structures of this moment but. 01:14:47
When they do, the other property owners do decide to do that. They would like to have all the parking contained on site. 01:14:51
Because that is a small 20 foot St. 01:15:01
So we're not excited about all the traffic on it either. So I know that the neighbors major concern is traffic on that street, 01:15:05
kids that walk on that street. 01:15:09
We're concerned about that too, I don't think adding a couple of cars on that street. 01:15:15
From the people that live there are going to add too much most of the traffic. 01:15:19
Is actually coming from other people using it as a. 01:15:22
Through a spare and they're going quite fast, that's really the major concern and. 01:15:25
It's honestly our concern as well, but at this moment. 01:15:30
Any parking would be on site. Our particular area for our house has A2 car garage and then in the picture that's in your packet. 01:15:34
It also you can see there's three cement pads and so there's parking to the right side of the garage that would allow for one car. 01:15:43
It's a small studio that would. 01:15:48
Really only allow for one or two people at one person or a couple anyway, so it would only be one car and that would be on site. 01:15:53
So we don't want anyone to park on that street either. 01:15:59
And we would be interested in also finding a way to have less traffic going up and down that street, but. 01:16:02
We're just looking at trying to change change it so that we can use our properties to the best and. 01:16:08
You know, for our own purposes basically, I think there were concerns that maybe developers were coming in and. 01:16:16
Going. 01:16:22
Take over and stuff, but that's not the case. It's just the property owners. 01:16:23
See and then. 01:16:27
Can I interrupt with a quick question? You mentioned that you too as the current property owners. 01:16:29
Excuse me? 01:16:36
Are interested in decreasing the traffic on that street. Do you have any ideas on how you might do that? Well, I mean if you we 01:16:38
are utilizing the AU's and and such and and they do get different sort of housing. 01:16:44
In there it could the transportation from the city, buses and whatnot might be. It actually may decrease the traffic, as least as 01:16:52
far as our lots are concerned, because they made a lot of those people that use those kind of smaller, you know, they're students 01:16:56
and they. 01:17:01
They just take public transportation as close to the holiday city village and whatnot. I understand how that might mitigate. 01:17:06
The. 01:17:14
Expansion of traffic, but you'd indicated you have hopes of reducing the traffic as it is right now. Have you given any thought to 01:17:15
how you might do that? There was a thought about maybe making that street. 01:17:21
So that it you can't actually drive on it. We talked about that with the city so that people could just utilize it for the kids to 01:17:28
walk through and not actually drive there and park there. 01:17:32
However, it does bring up some other concerns as far as bringing in, you know, the garbage trucks and whatnot, you can't really 01:17:37
have a turn around at the end and and so it does make it difficult. 01:17:43
It's sort of a. 01:17:49
It's kind of a. 01:17:52
Half and half situation and I think people do like to utilize that as a through St. which doesn't bother me either. But I, you 01:17:54
know obviously it's just mostly the speed so maybe just more control of the speed on that street would be more concerning for 01:18:00
anybody including the people who have kids walking on it, but. 01:18:05
So idea is to reduce the speed, anything to reduce the amount of traffic on this street. 01:18:12
That you said that you'd indicated in your comment earlier, Ohh, well, I just said, yeah, I just basically thought that it would 01:18:18
be nice to reduce the amount of St. traffic and I I do think the closing it could do that. 01:18:24
So it was not a through street, but that also brings up a lot like a like I said, a lot of other problems as well. So you're 01:18:30
taking any steps to. 01:18:33
Closed the street. No, no, no. We talked with the city and they just suggested that that could be one thing that could be done. 01:18:39
And then they talked about you know us maybe purchasing it, which I don't think we were really excited about either. And so it 01:18:46
would be maybe if that was done, it would be still maintained by the city, but. 01:18:52
And then like I said it. 01:18:59
The fact that you can't bring the garbage trucks up and down that street make it kind of difficult. 01:19:01
Forgive me, I interrupted you, I carry on where you were. Oh, you're fine. Appreciate it. Basically I just kind of wanted to 01:19:07
address mostly also concerns and that's why I brought up is mostly because I know that's concerns of the neighbors. 01:19:13
Is the street traffic and so. 01:19:19
I don't feel like the R2 zone change is going to really increase a lot of St. traffic for for them. 01:19:23
I mean. 01:19:30
More than an order, it is but. 01:19:32
I do believe that it would make. 01:19:34
It easier for us to maybe utilize our properties and like I said, unfortunately mine the only way I can actually use my AU's with 01:19:36
a text amendment but change. But as far as the other owners, I know that they're interested in maybe adding an Adu on their. 01:19:44
Or additional structure on their property. Great. I appreciate that, Mr. Kemp. Thank you and. 01:19:52
Just for my own edification real quick. And what would it this might be for city staff? Who are you? What would it take to make 01:19:58
that an attached? 01:20:01
Dwelling unit as it's currently built now like could you put an awning on it and call it attached? 01:20:06
For it to be attached, it would take a significant amount of work just looking at and talking with Mr. Kemp about where you know 01:20:11
existing doorways are. There's store, there's stone on the exterior, it could be attached, but it might be more costly than than 01:20:19
that is worth or you've attached it through the basement with. 01:20:26
Digging a tunnel connection between the two, again maybe more costly than. 01:20:34
Because I think in answer to your question, Chairman, I think the awning idea which I I thought of as well, was not considered 01:20:40
attached. 01:20:43
Yeah, just it needs to be an enclosed internal internal awning. With a screen porch on, it wouldn't be considered attached unless 01:20:49
it had its own HVAC. 01:20:53
Right. OK. So, yeah, so with the garage pull forward as it is, it would actually require the structure. 01:20:58
Behind the garage to be built and then attached to the house which would be pretty intensive so so that would. 01:21:06
Because like you said, that would take the requirement from 10,000 down to 8000. 01:21:13
So I don't know if there's any chance of, you know, making exceptions in the. 01:21:17
In the text. 01:21:23
In in the city code for that sort of situation, for existing structures or not, I mean I would love to explore that as well, but 01:21:24
from what I understand that may not be a possibility now. I appreciate it. I just wanted to clarify on that point, make sure I 01:21:30
understood the dynamic of the option there. Were there any other questions for the applicant that's representative at this time? 01:21:37
From the Commissioners. 01:21:44
OK. With that, we'll go ahead and have you sit down. 01:21:45
Get the pictures that I'm familiar with the property in that area and I'm looking at the pictures and you said that there would be 01:21:49
an off street parking, no one would have to park. 01:21:54
So you're currently just parked one car in the garage that currently sometimes we Part 2, but you can get through the garage and 01:21:59
still have a car parked on that right pad. We've done it before but I mean maybe not my truck but. 01:22:06
But it is tight. But it would if you parked the car on the right side, then maybe don't pull all the way up to the garage. You can 01:22:15
still enter the garage easily and and still have two cars inside as well. 01:22:20
But there's currently only one car in there right now. 01:22:25
And one other question and and perhaps some of the other owners are here and might comment, but if not, do you know if if? 01:22:29
What their? 01:22:38
And what their motivation? They don't have a DUI's. I understand. No, they're what's there here. But ohh, terrific. I'll let them 01:22:40
answer that question. Thanks anyway. OK. But yeah, they did want to, like I said, I I know the middle property wanted to build an 01:22:45
additional structure for their family to come live with on their area and the other applicant wanted to do something very similar 01:22:50
to what I have. 01:22:54
God. 01:22:59
Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Kemp. 01:23:02
With that, we will take public comment as soon as we open the public hearing. 01:23:04
And then we'll provide Mr. Kemp an opportunity to add any additional responses to any public comments that are made. 01:23:10
Before closing. 01:23:18
Before we move into the public meeting, just because I do see that there's several members of the public still here. Just as a 01:23:20
reminder, if you will not reiterate the same points made by a previous speaker and. 01:23:26
If you will keep your comments to 3 minutes or less, we'd appreciate that. 01:23:33
And with that, we'll go ahead and open up the public hearing and begin with comments. And it looks like we have someone coming up 01:23:37
right now. If you'll start with your name and address, please. 01:23:41
My name is Jeff Beck. I live at 4416 S Butternut Rd. It's right across the street from this. 01:23:48
Just for the record, we're excited that Dan bought the home and that he's. 01:23:56
There This is an awkward way to start a relationship with a neighbor, but. 01:24:00
I'm I'm opposed to this rezone application. I'll tell you why. 01:24:04
I'm not. I'm not opposed to. 01:24:08
Density increases when it makes sense. 01:24:10
I was very supportive of the R18 rezone for the house that Dan bought. 01:24:12
I think it fit in with the neighborhood, the character of the neighborhood. 01:24:18
Umm. 01:24:21
So I think the the the two points that I'm opposed to, one is is a beautiful home, the damn bot. 01:24:22
The builder puts something in the. 01:24:31
Wasn't, you know, wasn't legal from a standpoint of running it out to someone else. And so I'm I'm confused why we're trying to 01:24:34
fix. 01:24:37
That problem that that would be my first point. 01:24:41
And the second point is. 01:24:45
Kerry mentioned. 01:24:48
Several times that this was on 4500 S This is not 4500 S, this is 4470 S and there's a huge difference between 4430 S which is 01:24:50
45th S and 4470. 01:24:54
It's a 16 to 17 foot width on the asphalt. 01:25:00
As opposed to 60 feet on 4500 S So if if when you read the general plan and you see where the density increases make sense. 01:25:04
45 should be a higher density. It makes sense. It's a big Rd. there's a lot of traffic that can go through there. 01:25:11
39th makes sense, 23rd makes sense. 01:25:17
4470 does not make sense. It's not 45th. 01:25:20
And so I think it's really important that we that we separate this is not 4500 S. 01:25:24
And it does not meet. 01:25:29
The intent of the general plan, in my opinion. 01:25:31
It is 4470 S It's a tiny Rd. 01:25:33
You know you can. You can. 01:25:37
We can all pretend like it's not going to increase traffic or cause problems. 01:25:39
It already is a problem, and when you add more homes it's going to create more problems. May I ask what part of the general plan 01:25:43
in particular do you think this is inconsistent with? 01:25:48
So the General Plan identifies 4500 S. 01:25:53
As a corridor that should have increased density. 01:25:55
This is not 45 zero South. 01:25:59
This is 4470 S and there's A and and if you if you understand. 01:26:01
I I'm a developer ID real estate. I have these meetings all the time. 01:26:06
The intent of the code is a large arterial. 01:26:10
Makes sense for increased density. 01:26:14
That's why the General Plan shows it. 01:26:17
4470 is not 4500 S. 01:26:20
That was in my comments. 01:26:23
Thank you very much, Jeff. Appreciate that. 01:26:25
Any other comments? 01:26:28
Come on up please. 01:26:31
My name is Alicia Durr. I live at 2413 E Butternut Circle. 01:26:38
Just around the corner from the Butternut home. 01:26:43
And umm. 01:26:47
One other point, with this small St. there are no parking signs along the park side of that little small St. 01:26:51
And already you can see where 2 feet of the grass has been obliterated because cars do park there. 01:26:58
And I'm concerned that Holiday doesn't have the resources to continue to. 01:27:05
Enforce that no parking on that side. 01:27:11
With the corner house in question and that picture. 01:27:15
Most couples, when I've seen them, rent like a studio apartment. It's two cars. 01:27:19
And I've got a lot of kids that ride their bikes around. I'm concerned about that increasing more street parking, which would? 01:27:25
Lead on to Butternut Rd. 01:27:31
And also wander Lane where there are no sidewalks. 01:27:33
And it's already a little bit more of a dangerous St. for walkers and bikers. 01:27:37
Umm. 01:27:42
I'm just trying to remember my thoughts. 01:27:46
Also with. 01:27:50
Mr. Kemp. 01:27:52
You know, saying that he will designate that little parking spot. I'm also. 01:27:53
Concerned that a future owner, should it change hands, would not allow a renter to park there and there wouldn't be a designated 01:27:58
spot for that home right there. 01:28:02
When you look at the map. 01:28:08
I know it was mentioned before this meeting started that. 01:28:10
And it was a very recent change that those new properties, there's three new properties that I redeveloped. 01:28:14
That was a very recent change to change from R10 to R8 in order to be able to subdivide that into three different lots. 01:28:19
And everything on the north side of 45th South. 01:28:26
Is an R18. The majority are R110. 01:28:30
But even that new development happening on 23rd hundred 2300 E. 01:28:35
Aren't. 01:28:40
At an R28. 01:28:41
That was rezoned to be an R18 in order to put in that new development. 01:28:44
So there's nothing on that north side. 01:28:48
Of 45th South. That's an R2. 01:28:50
On the South side, when you look at that and you see the R210 and you look at those properties right there, they have little small 01:28:52
kind of private streets that allow. 01:28:57
For. 01:29:02
The parking that happened in the rear, right there for all of those. 01:29:04
And um. 01:29:08
And I'm just very worried about. 01:29:09
Being able to make designated parking for how many people actually move into homes and have multiple cars. 01:29:13
Already in the neighborhood, people have teenagers. 01:29:19
And a lot of the homes throughout there have 3. 01:29:21
Three cars with each home so. 01:29:24
That's another reason why I am concerned. 01:29:28
And then with the general plan, I know that affordability which was mentioned before, I know all those houses sold for well over 01:29:31
$1 million and. 01:29:36
None of these new properties are realistically would. 01:29:41
Would be considered an affordable type. 01:29:45
Unit. So I don't think it really meets that. 01:29:48
Qualification. 01:29:54
And then, um. 01:29:56
I. 01:29:58
I with our neighbourhood we access Wander Lane and that upper part. 01:29:59
And if you were to close off that street, this is just because this was in the conversation a little bit earlier. There are a lot 01:30:03
of accidents that happen. 01:30:07
Between Wander and 45. 01:30:11
I've witnessed 2 pedestrian accidents that have happened there and. 01:30:13
I'm sorry, between Wander and 40 Wander, Yeah, we're Wander crosses 45th right there. If you were to close off this little small 01:30:18
St. for everyone to be able to access both ways. 01:30:23
You would have more cars needing to turn onto 45th and then turn left. 01:30:29
Onto wander lane to be able to access that neighborhood, which is just. 01:30:34
More of a chance of of accidents happening. Turning on to that buddy Busy St. 01:30:39
It's really nice as a neighborhood to be able to turn onto that small lane. 01:30:44
And be able to go right up to Wonderland I do it. 01:30:49
Many times during the day. 01:30:52
If that makes any sense so. 01:30:54
And those are my comments. Thank you. Thank you. 01:30:56
Thank you, Planning Commission. I'm Andrew Webb. I live on 4348 S. 01:31:08
Butternut Rd. 01:31:12
I live a little bit further down but and it's been most of it has been mentioned, so I won't reiterate that, but I do want to 01:31:15
mention the there are many families. 01:31:19
Who send their children up there for school on this street? And we've talked a little bit about parking. 01:31:23
But I think the traffic is the big concern for the few that I've spoken with. 01:31:29
And as of course I'm super sensitive to the condition that. 01:31:34
Our resident and our neighbors in I just feel I would be frustrated if I were him. 01:31:37
I would be. 01:31:42
But I recognize that this would be awry, I think, for especially all of these kids who are using this little St. each day. 01:31:44
To get to school or to get to their friends? 01:31:52
And they're quite a few of them. 01:31:55
That's the only other thing I think we've I'd mentioned I've heard everything else that I. 01:31:56
As I spoken with other neighbors and. 01:32:01
That that feels like something that needs to be considered. 01:32:03
Thanks for your time. Thanks for evaluating the situation. We know it's not always. 01:32:05
Easy. 01:32:09
What you do and we appreciate it. 01:32:10
Thank you, Andrew. 01:32:13
Any other comments? 01:32:18
Hi, I'm Cheryl Far. I live at 44. Sorry, could you put that mic up? It just barely can't hear you. 01:32:26
I'm Cheryl Farr. I live at 4400 Butternut Rd. 01:32:31
Which is around the corner from the property. 01:32:34
On Butternut. 01:32:38
Wrote her across the street from that kind of Kitty corner. 01:32:39
I agree with some of these comments that have been made already, so I won't reiterate those points. 01:32:45
Couple of things that I have noticed that have not yet been said is that. 01:32:51
This. 01:32:56
This street that we're talking about, this small St. 4470 S. 01:32:57
Has no sidewalk on either side of the street. 01:33:01
And we do have a lot of foot traffic coming from Howard Driggs down through. 01:33:05
4470 or through the park? 01:33:10
And the only access for pedestrian. 01:33:12
Safety is the sidewalk along 4500 S. 01:33:16
Excuse me, which park you're referring to? 01:33:20
There's a little triangular mark that is that abuts the street, right? The same one. I'm sorry, go ahead. 01:33:23
Um, so the the sidewalk on the north side of that park is the only pedestrial? 01:33:30
Access that we have other than walking through the park talking about the park immediately adjacent to this road. Yes, Got it. 01:33:37
Thank you. 01:33:41
Umm. 01:33:46
And so when children are coming down the street from. 01:33:48
Howard Driggs. 01:33:53
That. 01:33:55
The. 01:33:58
Intersection between Wander Lane and 45th South. 01:33:59
Or. 01:34:04
The children have to either go directly West on that street crossing Wander Lane, which is a very busy. 01:34:06
Intersection from cars. 01:34:13
Turning left and going north on 45th South and turning left onto Wander Lane. It's a very busy intersection or the children have 01:34:16
to round the corner on Wander Lane. 01:34:20
Cross Wonder Lane. 01:34:25
And go down 4470 S. 01:34:27
With no sidewalks. 01:34:29
And no safety. 01:34:31
Access. 01:34:35
And that that's a big concern for me. 01:34:36
I have also witnessed many pedestrian accidents. I personally was in a pedestrian accident, a pedestrian accident on 4500 S. 01:34:40
And was. 01:34:50
Hit by a car and. 01:34:52
I am actually lucky to be alive and so I'm very sensitive to the. 01:34:55
The traffic and the density that is in this area. 01:35:00
The configuration of the streets. 01:35:04
If a car is heading north or excuse me, heading east on 45th South and then turns left onto Butternut Rd. heading north at that 01:35:08
point. 01:35:13
There is that is a very awkward corner because there is not a lot of. 01:35:19
Space for the cars and yet also a lot of pedestrian. 01:35:25
Traffic coming. 01:35:29
West on that 4470 S. 01:35:31
Street and turning on to Butternut Rd. 01:35:35
Umm. 01:35:38
Another. So I am very concerned about the increase in traffic. I think it's a hazard I think you will have. 01:35:41
I have seen. 01:35:49
Vehicle accidents that are vehicles that are traveling N on wander lane and trying to cross. 01:35:53
4500 S onto Wander Lane on the north Side. 01:36:00
I've seen many vehicle accidents there and the cars. 01:36:03
That get hit end up in the canal and the other thing that I don't don't think anyone has mentioned is the canal. 01:36:07
That runs on the east side of these properties. 01:36:14
Um. 01:36:17
And what access? 01:36:18
Are are these homes going to be? 01:36:22
Taking Are they going across the canal? Are they going along 4470 S? 01:36:24
What access is going to be? 01:36:29
Provided. 01:36:33
For these extra homes in that area. 01:36:34
I have a great concern over the density. I think the. 01:36:37
The. 01:36:41
Question of. 01:36:43
Moderate housing is. 01:36:44
Is not a legitimate question because this area is. 01:36:46
Higher. 01:36:50
Income level higher. 01:36:51
Standard of living type. 01:36:53
Area. 01:36:55
So I I do not agree that this that argument holds. 01:36:56
Umm. 01:37:02
Another concern of mine is the character of the neighborhood. If new buildings are built on these properties, it would go. 01:37:04
Against the character of the neighborhood, in that most homes in the existing area are all single level. 01:37:12
With basements and if you increase the density in these properties. 01:37:20
The the homes would be built. 01:37:25
Tri level meaning a basement, a regular level and then an upper level. 01:37:28
And that would. 01:37:33
That would not be consistent with the character of the neighborhood. 01:37:35
Thank you very much. Thank you. 01:37:38
Any other public comments? 01:37:44
Again just a reminder, if you can keep it to 3 minutes, try not to repeat and name and address please minus. 01:37:49
I agree with everything my neighbors have said. Did I have something else to take? OK, my name is Elaine Erickson. I live at 4388 01:37:55
S Wander Lane, which is the property right behind. 01:38:01
These. 01:38:08
To the to the north, to the north. 01:38:10
Yes, to the north. 01:38:12
So if they were to build. 01:38:14
Four places there. 01:38:17
I would. 01:38:19
Have. 01:38:21
More neighbors than I have now, which? 01:38:21
Concerns me. 01:38:25
And height that's another windows. Also my sewer line goes right through that property. 01:38:28
And I'm a little bit worried about what? 01:38:34
I don't want any extra charges for someone else's. 01:38:37
Benefit. 01:38:41
So that concerns me also, but I really. 01:38:42
I really prefer not to set in my kitchen. 01:38:46
Eating dinner and. 01:38:51
Looking at my neighbors in their bathroom, I really prefer a little bit of space between me. 01:38:53
And the next one's over. 01:38:59
And that's. 01:39:01
Just kind of what I'm asking for is the little space. 01:39:03
Excellent. Thank you very much for your comments. 01:39:07
I'll go really quickly because it might be redundant, but I'm trying not be redundant. I'm Caitlin Beck. 01:39:19
Jeff's wife. I live across the street. 01:39:24
One point that Alicia kind of alluded to is this is. 01:39:27
From 23rd to 27th. 01:39:31
45th. 01:39:34
Over is just one big neighborhood and it feels a little bit like we are separated, but that street kind of saves us in that way. 01:39:35
We are constantly going back and forth on that street. It connects us. My kids ride their scooters back and forth. 01:39:43
All the time. And if one car is parked there, you can't really even get through. I mean, it's. 01:39:52
It's just teeny they it was stated that it was 20 feet wide, but my husband measured at 16 feet wide, 17 Max. It's just a skinny, 01:39:57
skinny Rd. you cannot park on and it's just already a problem with how much how skinny it is. Parking is hard. It it already 01:40:04
stresses me out, is what I'm saying. 01:40:10
And with all of my kiddos, I've got five kids with most of their friends up there, so the thought of adding to it just. 01:40:17
Adds a lot more stress because I feel like it would be more of a divide of the neighborhood and it would be less safe for the 01:40:24
kids. 01:40:27
And again, it's been said, but that wander lane, if you're not familiar with it, go try and turn a couple times into it, it's. 01:40:30
Or go, I mean it's just a scary road and if that is a harder road to access and we're we're pushing all of that West and East Rd. 01:40:37
drivers onto 45th for that short little thing, it'll happen like. 01:40:44
50 cars a day, you know, just that little. And I just think it will. The the history of accidents is crazy right there. We've all 01:40:51
seen them. 01:40:54
So just add, this is a very high stress. 01:40:59
Spa already. We've got this cute park. It's great the kids walk it. 01:41:03
Adding anymore to it is going to is scares me to death. So Caitlin, I just want to clarify. You're at 4416, yeah. 01:41:07
And is that the property that's right on the corner of 45th or 1 N? No, we actually lived there for quite a while and then we live 01:41:14
just. 01:41:18
One in. 01:41:22
Thanks. 01:41:25
OK. 01:41:26
Robert Bradley 4375 S 2490 E which is just. 01:41:35
Half a block away. I just want to clarify. Could you repeat your name again? I I did. Robert Bradley. Thank you. Thank you. 01:41:40
I just want to clarify in the in the prior meeting it was said that this was an R18. 01:41:49
But it was really R110 and then converted to an R18. 01:41:54
03 or four years ago. So it's been historically has been our 1:10 for all of that property. 01:41:58
And just if I can just call on staff real quick, John, can you confirm that it was R110 converted to R18 in the 1999 county zoning 01:42:06
maps had it as R18 when we incorporated we changed it to 10. 01:42:12
And yes, the resident is correct. 3434 years ago it was rezoned at this corner. 01:42:19
To 1. So way back when it was 8 we changed it to 10. Then they changed it back to 834 years ago, OK? 01:42:25
Yeah. 01:42:32
Thank you. 01:42:32
Any other comments from the public? 01:42:37
I wasn't going to speak that. 01:42:43
And the party? 01:42:45
Owner's name and address please. Kevin Holman and I'm 2485 E 4500 S My closing documents when I purchased the property were 4500. 01:42:46
SI have never until today seen 4470. 01:42:53
Half of my stuff comes 44. 01:43:00
4430, Half of it. The majority of it comes 4500, and I've never seen that address. Just for the record till today. All through 01:43:03
COVID and for the last three years I've worked at home, my living room window looks out at the street all day. I watched my 01:43:09
neighbors drive back and forth. I watched the speed at which people go. I would never allow my children to walk on that lane, let 01:43:16
alone have their scooters on it and be unsupervised. I have seen so many near misses when I've been in meetings on the phone, I 01:43:22
can't even tell you. 01:43:28
How concerned I am. I think all of their concerns could be addressed. 01:43:34
By getting a sidewalk on the park. 01:43:39
Just to get that off that property, it is very, very narrow. No one can park on that little. I call it an alley. I've, I've lived 01:43:43
in the Avenues. It is very, very. It's my driveway practically. But as they've all mentioned, they all use it every day to fly 01:43:48
through back and forth. 01:43:53
And avoid 45. I get it. It's very busy. I have seen, I've been witnessed to all the accidents, all the unreported accidents where 01:44:00
police haven't even been called because. 01:44:05
There's been feuds and then the people have just ended it out there again. I would never allow my children to walk on that lane. I 01:44:10
would never allow my children to cross on 4500 across wander lane unsupervised. It is scary. Go sit there from 7:15 to 8:30. Look 01:44:17
at the. 01:44:23
Back to the topic, yeah, which is trying to get it back to an R2, which was the point for tonight. 01:44:32
Yeah, anyway, sorry. 01:44:40
Do you have any questions for me? 01:44:43
I I don't have any questions for you. 01:44:47
Unless the commissioners have any questions since he's the other applicant here tonight. 01:44:49
So our understanding from the other applicant that represented you in the beginning. 01:44:53
Is that your plan is to build an accessory dwelling unit? Yes, that's what I would like to do, Yes. OK. 01:44:58
And one unit are you? Are you? 01:45:05
Just one unit that I want my kids to live in as I have a bunch of young married kids and it would be a great place for them to. 01:45:07
To live on my property but be in a separate dwelling so a second home or no, it would be attached to my garage, yeah. 01:45:14
OK. 01:45:22
Which I am planning on adding a garage to that property. 01:45:23
And again, all of the parking can be addressed on our property. We have plenty of room for parking. 01:45:27
On our lots. 01:45:33
You said you're planning on having that attached to your garage. I will do whatever the city. I will work with the city to comply 01:45:35
with whatever. 01:45:39
Zoning, legal legalities are required. 01:45:44
Yes, I would. 01:45:48
But that's the plan. 01:45:49
And as you've gazed out your window while you're working at home, yeah, Have you ever seen a car parked on that street? 01:45:50
So frequently, even the city, the people who take care of the grounds, they park on that street. 01:45:58
And so then that congests the area. The only place that people park on the street is on my property. 01:46:04
And on my fence that again will be alleviated because that will be my driveway. My driveway is very narrow and I contend with all 01:46:10
the traffic on it. Why are they parking in front of your house? 01:46:16
That's the only place to park. 01:46:23
There's like a little tiny piece. And so when a car's there, it even becomes more dangerous. And that's all they have, a fence. Is 01:46:24
that on the street? 01:46:28
Yeah, it's well, there's as one of the neighbors mentioned, it's only 16 feet. I've never measured it before. So they don't really 01:46:32
care how long. I'm just asking is that spot that you're talking about on the street? 01:46:38
They have to part partially on the street and mostly on my property in order to park there. 01:46:45
Is they have plenty of parking all along 4500 S, but nobody ever parks there. Is that where you've got a no parking sign? Rather I 01:46:51
finally put that up because my fence, which is old anyway and will be. 01:46:57
Going at some point they park into it and then they hit it and it's about knocked down. 01:47:03
Thank you. 01:47:08
Any other questions for the applicant? 01:47:11
OK. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. 01:47:14
And with that? 01:47:17
Real quick. 01:47:21
First of all. 01:47:22
Talking. 01:47:24
And again, this is Elaine Erickson. OK, just for our record, thank you and his. 01:47:25
Address of 41st South. 01:47:30
Is that many years ago? 01:47:31
That was 45th so. 01:47:33
That is the old 45th South. Many people who have lived along there have the address of 45th South, but it's. 01:47:35
Not 45th South anymore. 01:47:43
Appreciate that. 01:47:45
And. 01:47:47
Just. 01:47:47
The clerk. 01:47:48
And and anecdotally, just to share as someone who's dug in Butternut Park and planted 2 trees there, there is a fine layer of 01:47:49
asphalt about two feet below the soil line where the original 45th South runs. 01:47:56
So I'm fully aware that that street still exists underneath the park. 01:48:03
Ohh. 01:48:09
Not. 01:48:10
The center. 01:48:11
475. 01:48:13
Was a. 01:48:14
Like before. 01:48:15
Resume. 01:48:16
That. 01:48:16
The framing down. 01:48:17
Home is still there. It's. 01:48:19
It was a duplex. 01:48:22
Or. 01:48:23
Walk in the. 01:48:24
Both sides. 01:48:25
Interesting. 01:48:28
OK. Alright. Thank you very much for that. And then just lastly, I would like just to extend one more opportunity if. 01:48:29
Dan Kemp had anything that he wanted to add after the comments that have been just to address real quickly. 01:48:38
Chair, do you want to close the public hearing and then have the applicant apologize? Let me close the public hearing. Thank you 01:48:46
for pointing, Avoider. Then we'll have you Go ahead and. 01:48:50
Address it. I was just going to address a couple of things. One is that for. 01:48:54
Her benefit, the one that lives to the north of Kevin on 2045, he was going to do. 01:49:00
Just to reiterate, an Adu like mine, so it would not be 4 units in that spot. 01:49:08
And it was going to be at the front, so it would. 01:49:13
Interfere with your property. 01:49:15
And the middle property where they're. 01:49:17
The, his, his right he'd be on the South side. 01:49:21
Right. 01:49:27
OK. If I can just let me just reel everyone in here, please. We're not going to have a discussion in here. So if you can just 01:49:29
address the Commission trying to let her, I appreciate that. Yeah. 01:49:33
I don't really understand I guess where her property is, but I just know that it was only going to be 180 U on his property is 01:49:38
what he wanted to do. 01:49:41
The middle one. 01:49:45
It was mentioned it could be 4. 01:49:46
I know that they're planning on doing one additional home. 01:49:48
Obviously, if they were going to do 4 or whatever it was, that would have to come before the committee at a separate time and also 01:49:52
have the public's input as well. 01:49:56
So it's really hard to say what they would build. 01:50:01
And I can't really speak for them for that either, but as far as the again on my unit it. 01:50:05
R2 is really not going to make a difference unless I ever changed a lot line. 01:50:11
And the pedestrian access, obviously that's a concern for everybody. It's a concern for us. So I thought that his idea to have a 01:50:16
sidewalk on the one side of the park would be a great idea. There is a sidewalk that goes through the park or part of it, so 01:50:21
that's also helpful, but. 01:50:26
So hopefully we can keep everybody safe and. 01:50:32
We'd like to see that as well. 01:50:36
OK. 01:50:38
All right. Thank you very much. 01:50:38
Appreciate everyone's comments and with the. 01:50:40
Public hearing closed. We'll now turn to our Planning Commission for discussion about this and just as a reminder. 01:50:43
What we are looking at with Razones specifically are the four items outlined in the packet. 01:50:51
Which? 01:50:58
You guys can read, so I don't have to just completely go over them all again, but. 01:51:00
Does it? 01:51:04
Meet the objectives of the General Plan. 01:51:05
Is it harmonious with the overall character? 01:51:08
Can it adversely affect a budding properties? 01:51:11
And do all the facilities and services intended to serve the property work in this rezone? 01:51:15
So with that commissioners discussion, Marty Banks anything? 01:51:20
Yeah, the third criteria. 01:51:25
Says not only whether it will affect the abutting properties, but. 01:51:27
Or the surrounding neighborhoods. I have a. 01:51:31
I have an impression that this may indeed adversely and materially. 01:51:34
Affect the surrounding neighborhood in terms of. 01:51:39
Pedestrian use. 01:51:44
Pedestrian traffic. 01:51:46
Safety for kids? 01:51:49
I. 01:51:52
I. 01:51:52
I would be sympathetic to some mitigating. 01:51:54
Conditions that might be imposed. 01:51:57
But we haven't really talked about that yet and the applicant. 01:52:00
Neither the applicant nor. 01:52:03
The members of the. 01:52:05
Public have offered any. 01:52:06
Mitigating. 01:52:09
Conditions that might. 01:52:10
Make this more palatable to me. 01:52:12
As it is right now. 01:52:15
I. 01:52:19
Yeah, we all want to encourage these, Adus especially. 01:52:20
At this time, where we're, you know? 01:52:23
Housing shortages, so. 01:52:26
Severe. 01:52:28
But. 01:52:30
I hate to. 01:52:31
I hate. I hate to disregard the sort of underlying. 01:52:33
10. 01:52:38
Of. 01:52:39
Those. 01:52:41
Criteria that we have to base a decision on. 01:52:43
And that one in particular to me is. 01:52:46
Not a slam dunk, but all things considered. 01:52:50
I'm weighing that direction. 01:52:53
I appreciate that and I can understand the. 01:52:56
Points made around the. 01:52:59
Impact. 01:53:02
To other properties, so. 01:53:03
With that, I'll switch gears and we'll come over to Commissioner Gong. Any thoughts or input? 01:53:05
Um. 01:53:10
I agree. I mean, it seems like a lot of people are have a lot of concerns, but it's part of this. 01:53:11
Broader picture that these intersections are already pretty dangerous. So I have just sort of broader question for the. 01:53:16
For the city staff. 01:53:23
There. 01:53:25
It seems like a lot of the concerns are connected with this bigger picture of saying it's already really bad. What are, what are, 01:53:28
what's the history of? Have there been any traffic studies about this area? Any any thoughts about mitigating the broader thing 01:53:32
so? 01:53:36
So the whole area isn't just, it's already clearly a concern, no matter, you know, whether or not they're A use on these units. So 01:53:42
what's the history of that discussion around this area? 01:53:46
And maybe John can give some more insight into the larger history with the creation of this. 01:53:53
More narrow Rd. as the alignment of 4500 S was adjusted. 01:53:59
Talking to the city Engineer the. 01:54:06
Impact of adding additional dwelling units, even up to five would be negligible, have a negligible effect on that roadway. Safety 01:54:09
concerns with pedestrians or other vehicles using the road. 01:54:16
The majority of the road use sounds like it is from the surrounding neighborhood connecting between the two. There would be an 01:54:25
option to look at how that traffic can be addressed in other ways if that's. 01:54:32
That would have to be in consultation with the with the city engineer to address some of those larger traffic concerns. 01:54:42
Commissioner Gong, if I might. 01:54:50
45 Zero South is not our street, it's a UDOT Rd. 01:54:52
UDOT maintains and operates UDOT as a collector to the freeway access points. 01:54:55
So they do conduct St. analysis every year. 01:55:00
And they give that in those numbers to us. But other than just getting straight numbers of ADT average daily traffic counts. 01:55:04
Yeah, it's a collector and it's fast. 01:55:12
And we had to where we were dealing with a state road right that bisects our city. 01:55:16
East West. 01:55:21
North-south. 01:55:25
Well, yeah, from a north to South side, sure, but having the corridor run directly east West is difficult. 01:55:27
OK. 01:55:34
Great. Thank you, Commissioner Cunningham. 01:55:35
I share some of Marty's concerns. 01:55:39
The city has already made a decision that we're going to encourage this kind of zoning. 01:55:43
And they've hinged it on moderate housing. 01:55:49
But in the ordinance it talks about moderating housing, moderate housing, finance by redevelopment agencies and stuff like that, 01:55:52
which I don't think is at play here. 01:55:57
And that more importantly, I think, by putting it on the transportation corridors. 01:56:02
Which is a City Council decision to do that. 01:56:09
This is the exception to the rule. 01:56:13
Now you know, I would say you know for the 23rd all the way up to. 01:56:15
I-15. 01:56:20
I'm not sure I would. 01:56:21
Be concerned, this is just weird. OK? It's an artifact. 01:56:23
Of. 01:56:28
Putting the park and keeping the road there, someone made those decisions and it happened. 01:56:29
And it's a reality for that neighborhood. 01:56:34
And that I think this is the wrong place to solve an AU problem. 01:56:36
To result. 01:56:42
OK, we've heard the applicants talk about AD as well. 01:56:43
Gather other ways to get Adus. 01:56:47
The council will probably have to get to address directly. 01:56:50
And I'm not persuaded that this is a good decision to make, and I think it's within our legislative authority. 01:56:53
To say no. 01:57:01
All right. Appreciate that, Commissioner Prince. 01:57:03
I. 01:57:06
I'm sympathetic to the concerns about the traffic. 01:57:08
However. 01:57:13
At the same time, I'm not convinced that. 01:57:15
Traffic from a few new units. 01:57:19
Would materially change the situation where it's people in the. 01:57:23
Coming from Butternut Circle or Briarwood or wherever. 01:57:27
Passing through over to wander lane and vice versa. 01:57:32
I'm not convinced that a few units would materially change the utilization of the road and the traffic. 01:57:35
On the road I. 01:57:43
You know, safety 1st and all, but I I'm not convinced that the situation would be dramatically different. 01:57:45
If there were a couple of more units placed on the road, so I. 01:57:53
I I think there's real value in. 01:57:59
Considering options for a property owner to utilize their property. 01:58:03
As. 01:58:08
As they would like to. 01:58:09
And I don't think we should just summarily dismiss. 01:58:12
Property owners being able to consider their options. 01:58:17
Because the. 01:58:21
Neighbors want a better sidewalk or. 01:58:24
Something along those lines and that's not to dismiss. 01:58:27
Safety concerns. I just think there's it's a real balance between the individual property owners. 01:58:30
Opportunities. 01:58:36
And desires. 01:58:37
And those of the surrounding neighborhood, and I'm not sure that it's clear at this point. 01:58:39
Which way it falls out? 01:58:46
Best. 01:58:48
OK. 01:58:50
And lastly, I'll turn to. 01:58:51
Commissioner Betsy. 01:58:52
I do agree with you, Commissioner Prince, I think you've you've pointed out a very important consideration. 01:58:54
And that we have to make, but I also agree with the other points that the Commissioners have made here. 01:59:00
I feel like there's some valid points that have been made and brought to our attention. 01:59:06
Umm. 01:59:11
By the staff and by the public tonight. 01:59:13
And one of the things that. 01:59:16
I am concerned with is that this just went through a rezoning. 01:59:18
We. 01:59:23
Have just been told that. 01:59:25
At least the one property was rezoned. 01:59:27
Just back in 2020. 01:59:30
And it was to. 01:59:32
Fulfill the purpose of the General Plan in offering more housing. 01:59:34
And which they? 01:59:39
Allowed. 01:59:41
Smaller lot sizes already. 01:59:42
And that's already been done. I wasn't on the Planning Commission at that time, but that was that was done. 01:59:45
And so here we are just three years later, and we're being asked to even go smaller. We're being asked to even put more. 01:59:52
On land. 01:59:59
When it was already decided that the R18 zone was adequate. 02:00:00
For the plan. 02:00:06
And so to to be at a place just three years later where we're being asked. 02:00:07
So once again, add more. 02:00:13
Just wonder where do you draw the line? 02:00:15
At what point do you say we've already done it, we've already accommodated for the general plan? 02:00:18
At what point? 02:00:25
Is it enough? 02:00:26
I understand what's being said about property owners. 02:00:27
Being able to use their property. 02:00:30
I do think in an R110 from what my understanding is, is that they do have options for a U still. 02:00:33
That we're not telling them that they can't do it. 02:00:39
There's just restrictions on how they go about doing that that would fit in better with the surrounding neighborhood. 02:00:42
That would fit in better with what's or even established in that area it sounds like from the review that I've done. 02:00:49
That those lots in that area are are win 10. 02:00:57
There are not any other R2. 02:01:02
80s. 02:01:06
Homes or or lots in that area if I understand it. 02:01:10
So how in making this accommodation recommending this zone change? 02:01:15
How does that fit in with the area that's already established and already there? 02:01:19
Like we've already done it, We've already, like, tried to work with the General Plan and add more housing when that change 02:01:25
happened three years ago. 02:01:29
Great comments. I appreciate everybody's input and individually going through and discussing that. 02:01:34
Lastly, I'll just add my own thoughts in addition to what's been shared. 02:01:40
I think the the striking point for me when I look at this, when we look at the the map 2.3 that shows the MDRT medium density 02:01:45
residential transitional. 02:01:52
That runs along 45th. 02:01:58
The the one thing that kind of stands out to me on that that buffer line that's arbitrarily drawn all the way along the road is 02:02:00
that there is actually a spot in there for open space and that's not represented within this. 02:02:06
Line that's been drawn along 4500 S and I do recognize that butternut is very much the park itself, a sliver of a park. 02:02:13
We do not have a lot of park space here in holiday to speak of and this is. 02:02:22
Definitely a very wide park strip. 02:02:26
That we consider a part, but it is still nonetheless open space within our city and I think that changes the dynamic when we look 02:02:29
at the MDRT. 02:02:35
As it's drawn out on the general plan, because I don't think that the butternut parts really been taken into account. 02:02:40
To change the fact that that's offset from the major Rd. of 4500 S there. 02:02:47
So for me I think that. 02:02:53
Kind of lends support and. 02:02:56
Necessitates the the consideration of the other commissioners. 02:03:01
Voiced opposition of moving forward with a favorable recommendation at this time. 02:03:06
But that being said. 02:03:13
I understand that you know that I am sympathetic to the applicants. 02:03:16
Desire for their property rights and of course you know what they want to do with their homes. 02:03:21
But we're not the final legislative body in this discussion. 02:03:25
We're just. 02:03:29
Asked to take the the feedback and review it from the standpoints that we've been given and I think we've vetted that out 02:03:30
thoroughly at this point. So unless there's anything else to consider or or staff or legal has any other advice for us, I think 02:03:35
we're at this time at a point where we're ready to entertain one of two motions. 02:03:41
I just want to add something that I think it's interesting that the three applicants decided to apply together. 02:03:47
Because to me it actually feels different. 02:03:53
And again, there's this bigger question for me of. 02:03:55
Is there any penalty for a builder who? 02:03:59
Builds an Adu you can't legally rent out and doesn't disclose that or or or makes it sound like you can and then you can't. I mean 02:04:02
that's that's a big concern to me. I I think that's. 02:04:06
Deceitful. 02:04:11
So and so I actually feel a little bit differently about something that's already there versus putting something new on and so. 02:04:14
I don't know what the. 02:04:24
What the repercussions are for bad acting builders but. 02:04:27
You know, to to say this is already there, I want to use it, versus saying I want to build something new. That actually feels very 02:04:30
different to me. 02:04:33
And so I'd be interested in. 02:04:36
Curious about any other thoughts about if this were separate applications we perhaps think about it differently. 02:04:39
Which is not, you know, not what we're voting on tonight, but it's it's a thought that I've been having. 02:04:45
I this is Commissioner Prince. I'd like to follow up on that comment and just ask city staff how did they get a building permit to 02:04:50
do something that was illegal? 02:04:54
So it's. 02:05:00
I mean, you can build. 02:05:01
What you want, right? A builder can build a space that's not attached to a house that's in an accessory building. 02:05:03
They can put a second kitchen in it's. 02:05:12
You know it doesn't. 02:05:15
They can build that. It's that the use is determined by what is in the code. So it's implying that it could be used as an as 02:05:16
opposed to building. It's fine, right? So then you could built it. It's built as an accessory use or a bonus room, a bonus space, 02:05:25
a man cave aid over the attic, bonus space, you know, similar kind of concept that anybody could build in their house. 02:05:33
So that is that is what was on the plans with the builder. Is this is a bonus space? 02:05:42
It's separated from the house. You could use it as an office. You could use it as. 02:05:47
Anything it's. 02:05:51
Then trying to use it as an accessory dwelling unit that is rentable is is a use barrier that our code does not allow on an 02:05:53
external building to an external accessory dwelling unit, if I may clarify on that. So if it was a mother-in-law apartment that 02:06:01
was truly being occupied by a mother-in-law who was not paying rent, that would be legal, yes, correct. OK. Or they're married 02:06:08
children or. 02:06:15
A couple of days. 02:06:23
Yep. 02:06:25
Could it be an Airbnb No. 02:06:26
The one of the qualifications on a short term rental is to be on a roadway that is 66 feet wide or wider. 02:06:30
All right, great discussion. 02:06:44
Unless there's anything else, is anyone prepared to make? 02:06:46
A motion on this. 02:06:50
I have one more question about the rezoning if. 02:06:52
If the rezoning were approved, does that mean? 02:06:57
It doesn't necessarily follow that an application to build an Adu would then also be approved. 02:07:01
Right. It would still each parcel would have to meet. 02:07:07
The regulations in order to setbacks everything in order to use that so. 02:07:10
Looking at the corner unit. 02:07:17
Or the corner property on Butternut. 02:07:20
As is. 02:07:23
With the R2 zone on that property. 02:07:25
They still would not be able to rent that unit unless it was somehow attached to the house. 02:07:27
So they're still in a place where. 02:07:34
They wouldn't be able to utilize it. 02:07:36
They there's, you know, options for. 02:07:38
The property owner. Anybody who owns that property to convert space within the house. 02:07:42
In an R2 zone, then they could rent out a basement and an upstairs unit separately, same as. 02:07:47
They would if they were living there and renting out a basement. 02:07:55
As would be allowed it with an internal accessory dwelling unit. 02:07:58
So overall, the amount of people or the living spaces? 02:08:02
Can largely be the same whether we're talking about an 80 U or within an R2 zone being able to rent out separate units. It's a 02:08:07
difference between if the property owner lives on site. 02:08:12
Or if you can, rent out a separate unit or both units separately. 02:08:18
And we're just making a recommendation to the council. We're not the decision maker. 02:08:23
Exactly correct. 02:08:27
And then just last devil's advocate question that I have for you on this is if the. 02:08:29
To. 02:08:34
Get my bearings right here. 2 Eastern. Most applicants in this decided, hey, I'm going to sell my property to this developer. He 02:08:36
buys both applications. 02:08:41
And says. Now I own all this and I want to subdivide the lot and I want to put in say. 02:08:45
4 duplexes on there. 02:08:50
He'd legally be able to do that within the zone change if the square footage met that requirement. Is that right? 02:08:53
Right. It would take somebody purchasing properties, combining them, treating them as one whole property that then they would be 02:08:59
able to put however many units are allowed on. 02:09:05
The entire property if that were to happen. 02:09:11
And then they could also make it a PUD and go a little bit higher and wider and closer if they really wanted to push their luck. 02:09:16
On a PUD the the intent is the preservation of open space, so. 02:09:23
And. 02:09:28
Umm. 02:09:29
There's there's specific standards within a PUD that would. 02:09:31
That would need to be met. 02:09:35
But again, talking about a very hypothetical situation, not right I I'm I'm not, I'm not indicating in any way shape or form 02:09:36
that's the applicants intent. I'm just saying by making this zone change, it does potentially open the door for that type of 02:09:42
scenario to happen within. 02:09:47
1015 years or even 2 years, right? 02:09:52
If all the stars aligned in that pattern. 02:09:55
Right. 02:09:59
This is Commissioner Prince at this point, however. 02:10:01
When we consider the middle and the eastern most properties. 02:10:04
They are our 110 at this time, yes. 02:10:09
Thank you. 02:10:14
I just have a quick addition to you on. 02:10:20
Commissioner Cunningham, you mentioned the Redevelopment Agency funds. 02:10:23
That was in reference to the city having redevelopment funds that. 02:10:28
Can be utilized by any property owner. 02:10:34
Currently they're earmarked for a different redevelopment project, but if that doesn't happen, or if more funds are added. 02:10:36
Any property owner can utilize those redevelopment funds for their own property to develop moderate income housing. So that's to 02:10:44
offset some of the cost to create moderate income housing. 02:10:50
OK, so there's two things listed. Rezone on transit. 02:10:59
Corridors. 02:11:04
And then the ones with the Redevelopment Agency, So those are. 02:11:05
Not mutually exclusive, right? Two different strategies in our moderate income housing plan. 02:11:09
But it would have to meet one of those criteria. 02:11:16
Yeah. Well, it's those are presented in the general plan as strategies to meet the moderate income housing requirements that is in 02:11:19
the general plan. 02:11:24
All right, Commissioners. 02:11:37
Any further investigation? I would. I'm inviting a motion if someone so inclined to make one. 02:11:39
Commissioner Banks moves to forward a positive recommendation toward the City Council to approve. 02:11:44
The application submitted by Messrs Kemp. 02:11:50
Watch It Alone and Holman to amend the holiday zoning map. 02:11:55
For the. 02:11:59
Referenced parcels set forth in the application. 02:12:00
Which would change those. 02:12:04
Zonings from R18 and R110. 02:12:06
To collectively and Art Dash 2-8. 02:12:11
Based on one. 02:12:15
The proposed amendment. 02:12:17
Is. 02:12:19
Excuse me, based on the third of the applicable criteria. 02:12:21
Strike that. 02:12:27
Amend that motion to be not approve. 02:12:29
Based on the third of the four criteria that it is not. 02:12:33
That it. 02:12:38
Does affect? 02:12:40
The surrounding neighborhood. 02:12:43
In a material adverse manner. 02:12:45
As Commissioner Roach, just to clarify, you're making a motion to deny an application. 02:12:48
Or to forward a negative negative recommendation, I apologize. 02:12:55
Friendly amendment accepted. 02:13:02
I'll second that. 02:13:05
Alright, there has been a motion and it has been seconded. We will take a vote. 02:13:07
Commissioner Gong. 02:13:12
I'm confused. If I vote, I am agreeing with you. 02:13:14
If you vote, you're voting in favor of a negative recommendation. Voting in favor of the negative recommendation. 02:13:17
OK. 02:13:25
So I said no, right? You'd agree? 02:13:26
Commissioner Cunningham. 02:13:29
I. 02:13:30
We should. 02:13:31
Missioner Prince. 02:13:33
Aye. 02:13:35
Commissioner Banks, I. 02:13:36
Commissioner Vote wrote, also votes aye, and it is unanimous that we make a negative. 02:13:38
Recommendation to City Council in the zone. 02:13:44
Amendment request from the applicant. 02:13:47
Just just for clarity sake for the residents that are here, so the next step is this would go before the City Council and then the 02:13:49
City Council will ultimately approve or deny the rezone. 02:13:54
So. 02:14:00
This is just a recommendation from this body. 02:14:00
This is step one of the process. Step 2 comes before City Council and I assume is that this next meeting or will be a couple 02:14:03
meetings out. Do you anticipate? 02:14:08
It will not be the next meeting, it will be. 02:14:13
Not sure what they're. 02:14:17
Schedule is. 02:14:18
I think it's going to be in October. They set the agenda. 02:14:21
Likely October, Yeah. OK. 02:14:26
So what? Watch the newsletter if you're anticipating following up with the City Council meeting. 02:14:28
And with that, that will take us to the final. 02:14:34
Action on our agenda tonight, which is the approval of the meeting minutes from August 15th, 2023. 02:14:37
Every commissioner should have had an opportunity by now to take a look at those meeting minutes. Is there any recommendations or 02:14:46
suggested? 02:14:50
Updates that those are needed before finalized from any of the commissioners. 02:14:55
It does not appear that there are any. 02:15:02
Recommendations for changes. Can we just wait till we get the door shut? Sure. 02:15:05
Maybe. 02:15:13
OK. 02:15:17
We need to finish the meeting so you can just. 02:15:19
Thank you. 02:15:24
So if there are no recommendations to updates on the minutes, then unanimously, can we just vote all in favor, aye? 02:15:26
To approve them. 02:15:34
Aye, aye. 02:15:35
Alright, alright everybody there meetings are approved and with that I will invite a. 02:15:37
Motion to close the meeting. This is Commissioner Prince. I motion that we close our meeting this evening. All in favor? Aye. Aye. 02:15:45
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