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Welcome. 00:00:03
We'll just get started. We have a first item is a zone map amendment. 00:00:04
This is for a rezone at 2051 and 2061 E 2 separate parcels. 00:00:10
Separate LLC ownership. 00:00:17
Rezoning both of those from RM2PO. So RM is a residential multifamily zone, PO is a professional office zone. 00:00:21
The zone PO was set up in 2019, designed to move. 00:00:29
Office use that is in the room zone into the PO zone that's detailed in your packet with both the code. This section also has 00:00:35
additional support in the General plan as a mixed-use zone. 00:00:42
Any questions on this one? 00:00:50
All. 00:00:54
And that. So I asked what I wanted to ask again with everyone else here so the PO zone would allow for. 00:00:56
Residential comp. 00:01:04
Yes. 00:01:06
Yes. So in the PO zone there is a conditional use for a planned unit development, so you could do a mixed. 00:01:08
Professional and residential redevelopment. 00:01:15
I read. 00:01:19
They're combining 2 lines for whatever reason, but one lot is going to stay. 00:01:22
As a business at. 00:01:27
For now, right. 00:01:29
And then? 00:01:32
And they replaced the one house. 00:01:33
A whole bunch of hous. 00:01:35
Right. So it will be the potential redevelopment because we don't have a redevelopment application at this point because that 00:01:37
would not be allowed in the zone that it currently is in, but potential redevelopment would be a new structure that combined 00:01:42
residential and office uses. 00:01:48
So one of them, sorry, one of the main differences that you'll see in the residential multifamily zone versus the professional 00:01:54
office zone, it was designed specifically as we're sorry, the professional office zone was designed as a buffer between major 00:02:01
uses. So like the commercial uses larger roadways. 00:02:08
As a buffer between those uses and residential properties. So in that we increased the set back from residential properties for to 00:02:17
be 30 feet. 00:02:23
In the professional office zone as opposed to 20 feet in the multifamily zone. 00:02:29
The height difference is 35 feet in the multifamily zone, 40 feet in the professional office zone. 00:02:35
So, so just a couple of clarifying questions for me. The scope tonight is just the rezoning, we're not. 00:02:43
Looking at their proposed plan, even though it sounds like they have a pretty concrete idea of what they're planning to do, right, 00:02:51
but that's a separate, yes, that's a separate thing. And so that that plan I mean we've. 00:02:56
There's a lot of public input on it. That plan could still be modified even after rezone, which we've done this kind of rezone 00:03:02
before. Yes, Yeah, this is a pretty standard rezone. We've done it for multiple properties on Highland Drive. We did one last year 00:03:09
for a office building that was on Highland Drive. 00:03:15
The I'm trying to think if there was. I know there's been a few. 00:03:24
But in the code specifically where it talks about the professional office zone, there's three standards for a rezone. And so 00:03:29
that's kind of what the analysis was on this one is here doesn't meet these things that were already pre designed for rezone. 00:03:36
And this is a rezone that pertains just to this property. It's not part of a an overall plan for excuse me for this. 00:03:45
Magnificent Half Mile or whatever it's referred to, right. So in the general Plan, you have future land uses and those future land 00:03:57
uses are a guide for future development. So with the redevelopment or rezone, so first looking at a rezone for this. 00:04:06
The PO zone is one of those zones that are identified. 00:04:16
In that in that strip of land between the holiday village and royal holiday hills. 00:04:21
So I guess I'm not clear about what we're voting on. In other words, we're voting on a rezone. 00:04:28
If we. 00:04:37
To rezone this property, Are we also voting? 00:04:39
For what's been proposed for this property, no, we wouldn't evaluate any sort of redevelopment until we get an application for the 00:04:44
redevelopment. 00:04:48
So. 00:04:53
A rezone doesn't lock in any sort of redevelopment. They property owners can rezone and leave them as they are. They can adapt or 00:04:55
change or remodel existing buildings. They can. 00:05:02
They can build a new or redevelop, but that redevelopment key is a separate matter, a separate application. 00:05:10
And sorry, go ahead. 00:05:18
And so you said they could under the current zoning? 00:05:22
Still also build a bigger building so so the rezone would only change for example the height. You said it would change it 5 feet 00:05:26
higher. 00:05:31
But they could. They could currently build up to 35 feet if they wanted to do it in the current room zone, Is that correct? The 00:05:37
Professional office zone also allows them to expand office uses. So in the room zone, office uses are not allowed. So their 00:05:45
existing uses are legal because they existed at the point of time that the RM zone went into place. But. 00:05:53
There they can't expand to other office uses. So the we did a prior rezone because they wanted to for another property, they 00:06:02
wanted to expand their office uses to have dental or medical professionals, beauty salons, those are kinds of things that are 00:06:09
allowed in the PO zone that are not allowed in the room zone. 00:06:16
So it allows an opportunity for business owners or property owners to attract more variety of office uses. 00:06:23
So the only real change is that it can go up five additional feet with a additional 10 foot setbacks that that's correct, right. I 00:06:32
think the biggest concern with the neighborhood was the encroachment of traffic. 00:06:38
It was going to go through and I know we're not talking about where the drivers were going to be, but in the discussions with 00:06:46
staff. 00:06:49
Is there has there been any consideration how the circulation on the properties will occur and that would be evaluated at that 00:06:53
redevelopment application. We look at the site plan we'd look at and the city engineer Firewood weigh in and see if their plan 00:06:59
works or if it would need to be altered. 00:07:06
So is there a stipulation for the future approvals that would restrict any type of driveway that? 00:07:13
Leads into the neigh. 00:07:20
You may not be able to answer, I'm just trying to figure out if there's a way to help answer some of the questions of the public. 00:07:23
And realizing that maybe this will just exacerbate their concerns without some of that additional information being. 00:07:29
Shown so, right. And that could be something that's discussed at the future application for redevelopment of the location of the 00:07:39
driveways. That is something that we've discussed with other redevelopment applications. You know where our driveway is going to 00:07:45
be located, what how does traffic flow in and out of the site? 00:07:51
So yes, that would be addressed at that point. 00:07:58
OK. All right. Thank you. It seemed that there were three concerns expressed. It was the traffic, it was the parking and it was 00:08:01
the height of the proposed height of the building. 00:08:06
Based on what we're voting on tonight. 00:08:13
We aren't. 00:08:17
For in one way or another, any of those things, Is that correct? So your role tonight is that you are making a recommendation to 00:08:20
the City Council. Rezones are a legislative matter, so they are decided on by the City Council. The Planning Commission makes a 00:08:27
recommendation either for or against the rezone. 00:08:34
But the other things like parking, driveway location, traffic, those are things that are addressed by the Planning Commission at 00:08:42
the point of a redevelopment application. And building height, building height is what is allowed in the zone, is what it's what 00:08:48
is allowed in the zone. 00:08:53
Which is currently 35 feet. 00:09:01
In a professional office zone, it would be 40 feet because that's what the zone allows. OK, So that seems to be a big issue with 00:09:04
the residents in the area, correct? Well, the residents have concerns about a plan that is not before us, so it doesn't. 00:09:12
It's not terribly pertinent to tonight's discussion, but that is part of the plan that's before us new. 00:09:20
There's no. 00:09:27
There's there's nobody plans of a building, it's a zone change. So it's simply something that is allowed if we approve the zone 00:09:29
change. 00:09:33
Then we are tacitly appro. 00:09:38
A. 00:09:41
That would could be 40 feet high. Is that correct? 00:09:43
Right. And you're changing to a different zone with different regulations, trade-offs there with setbacks. So it has to be set 00:09:46
back further in 30 feet instead of 20 feet. 00:09:52
35 feet versus 40 feet. All residential zones, depending on the size of the lot, to either have a 32 foot height limit or a 35 00:09:58
foot height limit. So it's. 00:10:03
Fairly close, it's just increasing a set back. 00:10:08
OK, so the way it's zoned correctly currently. 00:10:13
Somebody could build something that's 35 feet high, yes, they could build something 35 feet high. Multifamily property, 20 feet 00:10:18
back from a residential property. 00:10:24
Which? 00:10:30
Be worse, I would think OK and and the rezone would could result in something that is 40 feet high but 30 feet back. 00:10:31
Oh. 00:10:45
But since we don't have a plan in front of us, we don't. But I just want to make sure we know what we're, or I know what we're 00:10:47
voting. 00:10:50
I have just a friend. 00:10:55
We're over here fighting. Please follow me. 00:10:59
You were talking about the compliance with the General Plan, so this in the description of the staff report along this section of. 00:11:02
Murray Holiday Blvd. This is an anticipated future use, correct? Yes. So that area on Murray Holiday Blvd. Between the Village 00:11:12
and. 00:11:17
The old Cottonwood Mall site has been identified as a mixed-use area, no retail uses, and it lists appropriate zones for that 00:11:24
mixed-use. Those are identified. 00:11:30
On the second page. 00:11:38
As RM and PO. So you might have some properties that are RM, you may have some properties that are PO. So it does this plan in the 00:11:41
proposal for the planned office or professional office is in compliance with the general plans expectations and that's typically. 00:11:51
One of the baselines that we use to make a consideration or a decision, is that right? So consideration, you'll be looking at the 00:12:00
general plan and you'll also look at the rezone code for the professional office. That section of code does give you guidance on 00:12:07
when rezones to a professional office should be prioritized. 00:12:15
Although it's part of the master plan, wasn't there supposed to be a small area plan done that has not been done. 00:12:26
Yes, that was mentioned in the general plan that is something that can be developed at those master plans do take time. 00:12:32
It still identifies the area should be pedestrian friendly. 00:12:40
The professional office zone allows buildings to come closer to the street, which creates A pedestrian friendly environment so it 00:12:45
will be walkable between the two centers there. 00:12:50
But wouldn't it? Wouldn't it make sense to have that plan before? 00:12:56
Suddenly, in the middle of that area, make something. 00:13:00
At least at first glance, doesn't. 00:13:05
Not necessarily. It's because those take time to develop. They are something that can be developed in the future. We have to take 00:13:10
the application now as it stands. 00:13:14
So software is it a vested? 00:13:22
They filed for the application to rezone, right so. 00:13:28
Asking to have a plan for the future would not. 00:13:33
Affect this? 00:13:38
Right. 00:13:40
Correct. We would we have to process the application without it. 00:13:41
Carrie, just as a matter of practicality. 00:13:47
Because I you know, I voiced some concerns about set back and height and. 00:13:52
What's allowed now in the current zoning? 00:13:57
I don't think the residents in the area would be happy with. 00:14:02
Based on what the pushback we're getting. 00:14:07
How? How does it get communicated? 00:14:12
In other words. 00:14:15
The rezone application is approved and forwarded to or is forwarded to City Council. 00:14:17
How does it get communicated? 00:14:24
To the residents in the area. 00:14:27
Umm. 00:14:31
I don't even know how to say this, but how does it get communicated that look? 00:14:33
You know it's either. 00:14:39
An additional 10 foot set back with the five feet or. 00:14:41
You could be. 00:14:47
A current set back. 00:14:51
3035 feet, right. And I think that's going back to the general plan, remembering that our general plan, we did garner public input 00:14:53
and development of that. We garnered public input and had public hearings when we established the professional office zone. So 00:15:01
both of those things have had public input and public hearings on them. 00:15:08
Before they were established. So if you rely on those things for the basis of making decisions. 00:15:17
That is a fact based decision. 00:15:23
Thank you. I think one other thing that I think is important for the Planning Commission to understand. So when these come up for 00:15:31
a rezone, every resident within is it is it 600 feet, 505 hundred. So the state code requires 300 and holiday has opted to extend 00:15:36
that to 500 feet. 00:15:42
So anybody within 500 feet of that property gets a postcard in the mail that says, hey somebody, the owner of the property on this 00:15:48
address. 00:15:51
Has requested a rezone, and you're invited to give your public input. 00:15:55
That similar notice will be sent out when it goes to the to the City Council. So they have an opportunity to come in and weigh in 00:15:59
before the Planning Commission tonight or send an e-mail and they have an opportunity at City Council to do that as well. So there 00:16:05
is an obligation if you want to be informed, you can be. 00:16:10
But the city can't force you to be informed on these kind of situations, if that makes sense. Meaning the residents. So give them 00:16:16
an opportunity, yes. 00:16:20
But we don't knock on doors and send, you know, send members of the Police Department to go and make sure they know. So there's a 00:16:27
there's a duty and an obligation responsibility to participate if if you want to and based on the input that we have. 00:16:33
They obviously got. 00:16:41
They got word and they're not completely informed. 00:16:43
Right. So. So, yeah, I mean, so in my experience. 00:16:47
Change is. 00:16:52
No matter what. And so when you've lived in a neighborhood for a long time or you buy in a neighborhood and most people do not go 00:16:54
and look at the general plan when they go buy a house. 00:16:59
Probably should, but they don't. 00:17:05
So that happens with city roads. That happens in lots of situations where I had no idea that a road was planned here for the last 00:17:09
30 years and now it's being built and I don't like it right, that that happens often. I've seen that multiple times, but. 00:17:16
The. 00:17:24
The public has the ability to participate. 00:17:25
You also have the general plan that you were to weigh and kind of balance property rights with, you know, public comments. 00:17:28
Umm. 00:17:35
And that's kind of your duty as a Planning Commission to weigh those and then make a recommendation based on. 00:17:37
How you think that? 00:17:45
Balance. 00:17:47
OK. Thank you. Does that, does that help? Yeah, Thanks, Brad. I've got a question for you. We've. 00:17:48
We've got. 00:17:56
One person who's submitted a citizen comment form wanting to represent a group. 00:17:58
Do you have any comment for us on or any guidance for us on if that is except if that's allowed or so yeah, that's typically 00:18:04
allowed and what that usually most most often that gives you a little more time. So if you were usually limited to two or three 00:18:10
minutes, if you're representing a group of multiple people, then they would usually give you. 00:18:17
5 minutes. 00:18:24
OK. 00:18:25
I think the critical thing is. 00:18:27
To establish up front what the three issues are that we have to consider. 00:18:30
And not take public comment about all the other issues that we've read about that have nothing to do with today's topic. 00:18:35
Well and one other point of that I think is important to remember is the process for redevelopment and this is, I know you guys 00:18:43
have all had this, but. 00:18:48
Sometimes it's helpful. I mean, I go back to the code all the time. 00:18:55
So when when you want to change your land, use. 00:18:58
And it's not allowed in the zone that you have. You have one option, you go and ask for a. 00:19:04
So that's step one. You ask for the rezone because once you get the rezone, then that triggers the investment in an engineer, the 00:19:10
investment in architect, the investment in any sort of studies that might be necessary and it's expensive. 00:19:17
Right. So you wouldn't go to that investment in expense unless you knew that you could build? 00:19:24
And you knew the parameters with which you could build, right and in these in the residential multifamily, so they can right now 00:19:29
they can knock that building down, they can knock both buildings down and build townhomes that's permitted or apartments or 00:19:33
condominiums. 00:19:37
That's permitted right now and they don't need a rezone. If you switch to a professional office, you get that expanded list of 00:19:42
uses for doctors and dentists, things of that nature that Kerry referred to. And you also get the advantage of those same uses. 00:19:49
But you can build residential on top of those. But in order to get that, you have to have the professional office component first. 00:19:57
Right, so. 00:20:05
And the other question that might be important for you to understand or to consider is where is this use? 00:20:07
Kind of appropriate, right? This is a street that goes between royal holiday hills, which is a really high intense. 00:20:15
Dense use of both residential and commercial and then the village which is a lower intensity abuse of commercial and lower than 00:20:22
single family homes, but you know and lower than royal holiday hills, so typically you know when you plan. 00:20:30
Cities. Those kind of uses are usually compatible on a corridor between the two, right? So that is anticipated you'd have traffic 00:20:38
on that road anyway. 00:20:43
Because you have. 00:20:47
You have the village and then you have a royal holiday hills, so there's going to be traffic back and forth. 00:20:50
Between that anyway, So the idea is where's an appropriate? 00:20:55
You know location for these type of us. 00:20:59
Where that, for example, where that church is that is being torn down and redeveloped into residential, that would be an 00:21:03
inappropriate location. 00:21:06
You know, a multi, multi family or even a multi or mixed-use development because it's surrounded on everywhere by quite a distance 00:21:11
by single family homes. 00:21:16
This particular property is not surrounded by residential on all sides, right? So. 00:21:21
In a typical. 00:21:28
Kind of situation that's not an inappropriate place to put that. It's part of the general plan And so they plan that redevelopment 00:21:30
overtime that those uses would change based on this proximity to the village and based on proximity to Royal Holiday Hills. 00:21:36
So. 00:21:43
Thank you when we talk about the. 00:21:46
Things that we need to consider as we look at a rezone request. 00:21:51
It's detailed in 13.44, point 010 BI believe as listed on the second page of the packet. 00:21:55
Where it starts in evaluating any rezone application for this zone preference should be given to those properties which. 00:22:03
And those are the three points that we've we need to be evaluating this by, correct? 00:22:09
Well, that's what. That's what the City Council is. That's what the City Council has addressed. This is what we want you to look. 00:22:15
That is our direction as a Commission. Yeah. OK. So recommendation for recommendation that we forward. And. Yeah. And everybody 00:22:20
always wants to know, OK, well, if we give you this rezone, what are you going to do, right. I mean. 00:22:26
That. 00:22:33
That's the question. 00:22:34
When you're looking at it without another application or without additional information from and can you ask for additional 00:22:36
information? Yes. Are they required to give you that information, information at this stage? No. OK, thank you. All right. Let's 00:22:42
go ahead and move on to just quickly anything else that we need to cover in our work meeting the text amendment. 00:22:48
This right, we discussed that at a previous we discussed it previously. So that is state required amendments. 00:22:56
Item number three on the agenda. 00:23:04
Item number four is the redevelopment of or subdivision at Westmore at the property. So they have their plan with 10 lots. 00:23:09
And then Royal Holiday Hills Block K this is one we looked at before. So they're coming back for an evaluation. OK, great. 00:23:19
Anything else that we need to discuss in our? 00:23:24
Pre median. 00:23:30
Just a quick question, I know that there is going to be a change in like the preliminary conceptual. 00:23:33
Final when? 00:23:41
When does that change? 00:23:43
So that's required to be changed by February. You have a day John February 1st, but it won't be codified until 30 days after. So 00:23:45
anything that would be applied for in March would be would be applicable to this new code. 00:23:52
And that's another item that is a recommendation that you're forwarding to City Council as a legislative item. 00:24:00
Anything else, Paul? Did you have something? I was just gonna suggest that we move that text issue to the last issue on the agenda 00:24:07
and take care of the action items in the. 00:24:11
Is that OK with everyone else? Sorry. All right, then we'll do that. Sorry, moving that to. So we're going to move #2. We're going 00:24:17
to bump it down to the end, so to #5. 00:24:23
OK. 00:24:30
And just sort of. 00:24:31
Brad, do we need to hold all public hearings first? OK, no, I mean one of the one of the considerations why you usually put them 00:24:33
is if public is here to weigh in on that. 00:24:37
They can weigh in. 00:24:42
If there are some public speak to that when I be OK with that, I just the other two are more likely to have public interest and. 00:24:44
So should we move it or should we leave it? It should be a pretty fast review. If it should be pretty fast, then let's just leave 00:24:55
it where it is. OK? All right. We're going to take a 3 minute break and then we'll commence our meeting in just a couple of 00:25:00
minutes. 00:25:05
Thanks for moving down. We thought you were. Oh, I know. It's kind of like I just sit over and Heckle me, right? 00:25:17
You going down? I don't have anything. 00:25:23
That's what we do. Everything is. 00:25:32
What? 00:25:52
This is. 00:26:43
Yeah. 00:27:01
It's really not. 00:27:06
Well. 00:27:13
Because many. 00:27:14
Expect. 00:27:18
They go through this. 00:27:26
That's why. 00:27:35
That's. 00:27:43
5. 00:27:53
For example. 00:28:25
I couldn't remember. 00:28:29
Thanks. 00:28:44
Being attacked. 00:28:58
Yeah, it's a little bit. 00:29:04
Where's oh **** when we need them? 00:29:08
So hey. 00:29:12
Yeah, I thought. Yeah, just ask. 00:29:26
All right. 00:29:32
Good morning as ever you want, or good morning, good evening. I hope it's evening as everyone's coming in. If there are any public 00:29:36
comment forms in the audience that you'd like to bring up, feel free to bring them up to me or to Miss Marsh's. 00:29:43
They look like this. They're not required. But if you filled one out and you want to turn it in, we want you to have that 00:29:52
opportunity. 00:29:56
Welcome this evening to the Holiday Planning Commission. My name is Carrie Ann Prince and I am the Vice Chair of the of the 00:30:04
Planning Commission and will be conducting this evening's meeting. 00:30:10
I'd like to begin with a statement for your information. 00:30:18
The City of Holiday Planning Commission. 00:30:23
Is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special studies. 00:30:26
Make recommendations to the City Council on proposed zoning maps and ordinance changes. 00:30:33
And approve conditional uses and subdivisions. 00:30:39
The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications. 00:30:42
Rather, it acts on applications as they are submitted. 00:30:47
Commissioners do not meet with applicants except at publicly noticed meetings. 00:30:51
Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda where the location, the neighborhood, nature of the neighborhood, 00:30:56
existing structures and uses related to the proposed change are made. 00:31:01
Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff, the cities general Plan, zoning 00:31:07
ordinance and other reports by all verbal and written. 00:31:14
And by evidence submitted, all of which are part of the public record. 00:31:21
Now, just so you're aware, we do have some procedures that we follow here in our city in our Planning Commission meetings. 00:31:26
What we'll do is we'll introduce each item as it is coming. The city staff will make a brief presentation to introduce the the 00:31:36
item that is being discussed. 00:31:43
If desired, the applicant will then be allowed a few moments to speak to the Commission. 00:31:51
And then we will take public comment. 00:31:56
Comments are limited to 3 minutes only. 00:32:02
And speakers may only speak once. 00:32:05
Please. 00:32:09
When we invite you to come up, take turns. You need to state your name and your address where you live. 00:32:11
And we would request that you be brief and to the point. Since you've only got 3 minutes, you'll want to say what is important. 00:32:18
And we also ask that you don't repeat points that have been made previously. 00:32:24
And that. 00:32:31
You address any comments or questions to me as the as I am presiding at this meeting tonight and we ask that your remarks remain 00:32:34
pertinent to the topic at hand. Whichever issue you might be here to discuss, we appreciate your comments. We're glad to have the 00:32:41
public at our meetings. Our meetings are are are open to everyone and we are grateful for your participation in your community. 00:32:49
That's why we're all here. 00:32:56
Is to make our community better and to lift where we stand. So we welcome you this evening. Thank you for being here. 00:33:04
After the public comment is made, the applicant will be asked to come back up, address anything that they wish to comment on. 00:33:11
And then the hearing will be. 00:33:20
The Planning Commission will then discuss amongst ourselves. 00:33:23
What we're thinking, where we're at. 00:33:29
And consider the item and then take some action on it. The action could be. 00:33:31
To approve the item or give a favorable recommendation depending on what we're considering to. 00:33:39
Deny it, or to give an unfavorable recommendation, or to simply continue it to another meeting. 00:33:46
That is the general procedure that we follow. And then we'll move on to the next item. When your item is finished and you choose 00:33:52
to leave, which is perfectly reasonable, we ask that you go out and go down the hall before you start talking, because when 00:34:00
everyone talks right out in the lobby, it's really difficult for us to hear as we continue on the next item on our agenda. So 00:34:08
again, we're glad you're here. Thank you. And I'm sure we'll get to hear from many of you this evening. 00:34:15
Let's go ahead and begin with our first item, Miss Marsh. 00:34:23
Great. Thanks, Kirian. I'll be up at the podium. 00:34:29
So the first item on the agenda is an application to amend the zoning map made by Bradley Houston, the properties located at 2051 00:34:46
and 2061 Murray Holiday Rd. The properties current use is as primarily office space. There is one residential unit as far as I 00:34:53
know. 00:35:00
On the Sycamore Dr. side. 00:35:08
Rezoning from the RM to the PO zone. So RM is residential multifamily. The request is to rezone to the professional office. 00:35:12
Zone the professional office zone was created in 2018 at the direction of City Council, designed to move properties who that are 00:35:21
using their space as an office space. 00:35:27
Within the within the RM zone to the newly A newly created professional office zone. The zone was designed to expand the uses 00:35:34
available to properties who are using their their spaces as a professional office. 00:35:41
The council decided not to blanket rezone all properties. Instead, it would be done at the request of the property owner. So this 00:35:52
application is following that request and process laid out by the City Council. 00:35:58
Also in evaluating the general plan, this is in a mixed-use identified area at zones for that area, RRM and PO and I'll invite the 00:36:06
applicant to come up and he can discuss the rezone application in more detail. 00:36:14
OK. 00:36:22
Good evening. My name is Brad Helston. I may be a bit frazzled. I was rear-ended on my way to the meeting and spent the last 20 00:36:32
minutes exchanging. 00:36:37
Insurance information, but the person that rear-ended me anyway. 00:36:42
We, excuse me, can you just give us your address? Sorry, my name is Brad Helston and we are. 00:36:50
Well, my residence is 3120 Metropolitan Way. Thank you in. 00:36:57
Mill Creek and our office. 00:37:04
Is our current office is at 2061 E Murray Holiday. 00:37:06
We purchased the property at 2061 in 2017. 00:37:12
As a law office and I currently have. 00:37:18
Two employees with me in that office. That office was a converted home from the 1950s. 00:37:23
Wayne Jansen next to me, sold us their property a year and a half ago. 00:37:30
And was occupying it until the end of this year. 00:37:38
He recently moved out into her retirement center. And anyway, so. 00:37:41
We made an offer on the property and acquired. 00:37:47
As part of what we would like to do is to rezone the property consistent with the master plan. 00:37:50
To our. 00:37:57
Because our current use. 00:37:59
Office. 00:38:01
And in acquiring the property next door, we thought we would be able to. 00:38:03
Build a office for our. 00:38:08
Rather than simply, you know, flip it and sell it to some developer who's going to come. 00:38:12
Throw up. 00:38:17
What? 00:38:19
So our intent is to remain. 00:38:21
As part of the neighborhood and be part of the community rather than just. 00:38:25
Throw it to a developer to maximize space and use anyway so our application consistent with the current. 00:38:29
Master plan is to take it from a conditional use now. 00:38:37
Which was kind of grandfathered. 00:38:42
When the, you know, the county became the city and it kind of pulled everything in. 00:38:45
To an rozone, do you mean PO zone? Sorry, APO zone? OK, thank you. And be able to maintain the office, but then develop the 00:38:50
property to help us pay for the space that we're occupying by adding some apartments? 00:38:58
Rental apartments. OK and. 00:39:06
Essentially that's the plan we had. 00:39:10
Neighborhood meeting. 00:39:14
And got some valuable feedback from our neighbors. 00:39:15
And agreed that some of the spacing and the sizing. 00:39:18
Obviously, why? We've got 50 people here. 00:39:27
Not in my backyard. 00:39:31
And. 00:39:33
And and we are, you know, we're going to be here. We want to be neighbors. We're going to be part of the community. We're not 00:39:35
simply looking to maximize space. 00:39:39
And density. 00:39:44
You know. 00:39:47
Make as much money as we can and then walk away. 00:39:48
Consistent. 00:39:53
We would like to have. 00:39:54
Not only a conditional use, but an actual permitted use under the new RO zone, PIO PIO zone. I'll say that wrong every time I. 00:39:56
And be. 00:40:06
Add. 00:40:08
You know rental housing as well. 00:40:10
So initially our. 00:40:13
You know, I think we jumped ahead a little bit by presenting a. 00:40:17
But at this point, I think what we would like to do. 00:40:21
Is. 00:40:24
Approved. Combine the lots and then come back with a plan once that's approved. 00:40:28
After input from the. 00:40:36
To put up what we would hope to be a compatible use, given the fact that this is now the corridor between the village and the 00:40:38
development. 00:40:43
At the old Cottonwood Mall. 00:40:49
OK, so that's. 00:40:51
Why we're here and the feedback we got from the city was we would like to implement that master plan. 00:40:54
You know, through that corridor. 00:41:01
And begin the trans. 00:41:05
You know what used to be AI mean? I remember when I was a Boy Scout, we would go out and shoot guns on 90th South and that was the 00:41:09
end of the city. 00:41:13
And I remember when you know the only. 00:41:18
On the corner of 45th was the Baskin and Robbins. 00:41:20
You know if you remember that far back, but you know, so I understand that you know. 00:41:24
The sensitivity that we. 00:41:29
To not come in through. 00:41:32
You know as many stories as we can and pack it as tightly as we can. 00:41:35
And based on the feedback we got from our initial meeting. 00:41:39
We're sensitive to that and we're certainly willing at the next phase. 00:41:43
To address that in our proposal for what we would like to do. 00:41:47
With the new P. 00:41:52
OK, but your proposal tonight is simply for a zone change request zone. 00:41:54
RPO. 00:42:04
RM to the. 00:42:04
Thank you so much. We appreciate you being here this evening. Thank you. 00:42:06
OK. 00:42:10
So I believe and Brad you'll make sure, I believe now we will open the public comment. 00:42:11
Public hearing. 00:42:16
OK. All right. We'll go ahead and open our public hearing now. You are welcome to take turns coming up. Remember, please state 00:42:17
your name and your address clearly for the for the recording and keep your comments to 3 minutes. 00:42:26
And please don't repeat points that have been made previously. 00:42:36
We appreciate having you here. 00:42:42
I represent a group. It's the group. The letter of the group comments. So can I be granted more than 3 minutes? You can have five. 00:42:49
So tell me your name and address please. My name is David Dean and I live at 2073 E Murray Holiday Rd. 00:42:58
I and my wife are the owners of a duplex property contiguous to the east of the subject property, so we abut the property. 00:43:07
And we occupy. It's a duplex property. We occupy one side of the duplex as our primary residence. My daughter lives in the other 00:43:17
side of the duplex. 00:43:21
We have owned and occupied the duplex for 31 years. 00:43:27
So we're long time res. 00:43:32
I represent a group of 57 signers. There were 16 added today, in addition to those showing in your in the letter copy you should 00:43:35
have received from Kerry. 00:43:40
That we sub. 00:43:46
So there are 57 signers of these of that letter that represents the comments of all of us. 00:43:48
The. 00:43:57
Subject Property is in the city's General Plan district that includes the area known as the Holiday Half Mile. 00:43:58
That area along Murray Holiday Rd. Between the Holiday Hills redevelopment area on the old Cottonwood Mall property. 00:44:07
And the holiday? 00:44:15
Now I'm quoting from the General Plan. 00:44:18
It says future development of this area should be guided by a small area master plan yet to be developed. 00:44:22
That's from page 18 of the General. 00:44:32
And no such small area master plan for this area has been created yet. 00:44:36
The Holiday Half Mile area represents a significant link between Holiday Village and Holiday Hills. 00:44:42
There are major issues to be addressed prior to any. 00:44:49
In that area. 00:44:54
Including building heights relative to contiguous single family subdivisions. 00:44:56
Building styles and materials. 00:45:01
And the widening and improvement of Murray Holiday Rd. which is we understand. 00:45:04
Will likely include special design features. 00:45:10
Because of these and other issues related to developing a cohesive. 00:45:14
Functional. 00:45:19
And aesthetically appealing holiday half mile area. 00:45:21
We contend that a small area master plan not only. 00:45:25
To use the general plan language, but must be created for the area. 00:45:30
And asked that Mister Helston's zone change application be tabled. 00:45:35
Until such a plan has been completed. 00:45:40
Mr. Helston's application is for zone change to P. 00:45:45
Professional office and the city code for that zone. 00:45:49
As follows Quote developments in the PO zone are intended to be compatible with abutting residential uses. 00:45:53
And then end a quote and then quote again in evaluating any rezone application for this zone. 00:46:02
Preference shall be given to those properties which will enhance property values and contribute to the economic sustainability of 00:46:08
the city. 00:46:13
In our neighborhood meeting with Mr. Helston held on November 22nd at his office, he showed us drawings of his proposed 00:46:20
development. 00:46:24
Which he claims is consistent with what's currently allowed in the PO zone. 00:46:28
It shows buildings of 40 feet high, three story buildings within 30 feet of the contiguous subdivision property line. 00:46:33
And that subdivision includes predominantly single level houses. 00:46:44
The stark contrast of a 40 foot building against those existing houses is shocking. 00:46:49
I've distributed here among the public and included with that letter that I sent to you. 00:46:56
Virtual overlays that were. 00:47:02
So that you can understand what that means. And I realize that tonight we're not discussing a site plan. 00:47:06
But Mr. Helston has already shown us what he originally proposed, and I recognize his right to change that, and of what he's 00:47:14
according to what he said here. 00:47:19
But the fact is that it serves as an example. 00:47:26
If it's consistent with the PO zone as it's currently written. 00:47:31
It serves as a concrete example of what could happen on that property. 00:47:35
Mr. Helston's plan also. 00:47:41
Not only egress on Murray Holiday Rd. which is expected as as exists now. 00:47:43
But one on the Sycamore Dr. subdivision St. on the West side of the property. 00:47:50
Since his plan shows 24 parking spaces. 00:47:55
There's the likelihood of a significant traffic impact on that existing subdivision, St. 00:48:00
From this develop. 00:48:07
Neither the impact of 40 foot buildings and greatly increased traffic spilling onto a subdivision St. would, in the words of the 00:48:09
city code quote, be compatible with a budding residential uses. 00:48:15
Nor quote enhanced property values. 00:48:22
Again. 00:48:27
The existing development along that holiday proposed holiday half mile area. 00:48:29
Which includes my property and Mr. Helston. 00:48:36
There isn't a. 00:48:40
40 foot three story building existing in that corridor except the new building under construction. 00:48:42
On the old car wash property across from Sharon's Cafe. 00:48:49
And that development is in the HV, the Holiday Village zone, which is an entirely different zone from what we're talking about 00:48:56
here. 00:49:01
And in fact, the newest building that's been constructed near this property is the Village Dental Building across the street on 00:49:07
the South side of Murray Holiday Rd. east of the Beaumont intersection. 00:49:13
That building is only 26 feet high and then again is the most recent construction. 00:49:19
In that holiday half mile. 00:49:25
There are no other buildings along there that are office. Use that. 00:49:27
Are 40 feet anything near 40 feet? So again, it's incompatible with what's already there. 00:49:33
So in summary, just state again that. 00:49:40
Mr. Helston, zone change application should be tabled until an appropriate small area master plan for the holiday half mile. 00:49:45
Be completed. Thank you for your time. 00:49:54
Thank you, Mr. Dean. We appreciate your comments today. 00:49:56
Anyone who would like to speak that did not sign or is not represented by Mr. Dean for signing his letter. 00:50:05
My name is John Greaves. I live at 4625 Sycamore. 00:50:17
I did sign Mr. Dean's letter, although I submitted my own statement and indicated to Miss Marsh that I summarized those. 00:50:22
So please don't change the zoning. 00:50:30
And I was here early for the meeting. 00:50:33
Mr. Christopherson, Mr. Tierlink, your notice and opportunity to be heard should be expanded way beyond 500 feet or whatever. 00:50:37
A zoning change will not enhance the property value as you stated in your pre meeting under section 13.44 point 01. 00:50:48
It will adversely affect property on Murray Holiday Rd. Delmont Ave. and Sycamore Dr. and other places, but specifically the 00:50:59
backyard back fence neighbor it will deprive. 00:51:05
Those owners of their property rights of light, Air View and privacy. 00:51:11
And that is, that's an ancestral home. There are four or five generations. 00:51:17
Family that have lived in that same home. 00:51:22
I'd recommend a guiding principle after Mr. Dean. 00:51:26
Explained many of the rules and regulations. 00:51:31
A guiding principle of our Republic comes from our founding document, which is a combination. 00:51:35
Of John Locke's unalienable right to life, liberty, and private property. 00:51:41
And Cesare Baccaria's teaching that laws and ordinances should achieve the greatest happiness for the largest number of people. 00:51:48
Here, if you change this zoning, you can. I don't know anybody here who's happy, but I added up 16 and 57. That's 73 people were 00:51:59
not happy with this proposed zoning change. 00:52:05
So it will only make one group happy. That's Mr. Helston and his cohorts. And so in closing, I just have a question, maybe Mr. 00:52:13
Helston can. 00:52:18
Addressed this when he. 00:52:24
I believe these two properties. 00:52:26
Our owners are 2051 Holiday LLC, a Florida domestic limited liability company and 2061 Holiday LLC, also a Florida. 00:52:30
Domestic limited liability company. 00:52:43
Address 312 Minorca Ave. Coral Gables, FL. 00:52:47
And I believe contacts are Bradley Helston, Leon Patricios and Joseph Izumano. And if he could comment on who are the actual 00:52:52
owners, the human beings that own those LLC's. And those are my comments. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Graves. 00:53:00
My name is Greg Stone. I'm at 1960 E Crest Hill Drive. 00:53:19
I'm somewhat new to the neighborhood, relatively new to the state of Utah. I don't know anything about building code I. 00:53:23
Don't know the lingo or what ordinances we're debating. I can just say I moved to holiday. Part of the appeal when we were 00:53:30
shopping for houses is because it was a relatively quiet residential area. We've got kids and that was appealing to us. From what 00:53:37
I understand and what I see, this building would significantly change at least that feel or vibe in this specific area. 00:53:44
I did. You know, I've walked past here numerous times just on walks, and I see a law firm. 00:53:53
Down the road a little bit West. 00:53:58
On the South side of the street, you can't even you can barely tell it's a law firm. It looks like a house. I'm not against 00:54:01
progress, but it would be nice if something blended into the neighborhood. 00:54:06
And wasn't looking like it did actually maximize use because it looks like an eyesore to me and increasing traffic would be a 00:54:11
concern for my kids as well. 00:54:15
Thank you very much. 00:54:21
Hello, I'm Alan Cybrant, 4636 Sycamore Dr. And I'd just like to make a comment that just recently this last summer, you guys have 00:54:28
repaved our neighborhood area there, took out the speed bumps. Now this is increased traffic. 00:54:35
With speeders coming down. 00:54:43
Our street with stuff and I feel that if you were to. 00:54:45
Approved this and. 00:54:50
This there it's. 00:54:52
Create more traffic coming through our nice quiet neighborhood. I don't think we need anything on the Northside of Murray holiday 00:54:54
and I'm looking at what we're looking here. 00:54:58
.30 and one nine and he's talking about a 40 story building, single homes, 24 parking. 00:55:03
I don't think that's a lot of space for that much building that they want to put in there, so I'm against this song and I'd like 00:55:10
to see it. 00:55:14
Stopped. Thank you. Thank you. 00:55:18
Hi Mike Stone, we're 2050 Delmont Drive and we're directly, we would be directly behind this building. 00:55:32
And we would lose. 00:55:40
Sunlight. Our backyard would be over, you know, they'd be looking into our backyard and we just, we feel like we'd lose value to 00:55:43
our property. 00:55:48
And we just don't think it would work for us. It would really inhibit what we try and do in our home and it would block a lot of 00:55:53
the fun that we try to have. So we're opposed to this. 00:55:58
And just wanted to share with that. 00:56:04
Thank you. Thank you. 00:56:07
My name is Richard Baird. I live at 1865 Sycamore Lane. 00:56:18
I'm opposed to this mostly because as I see development. 00:56:24
Is the managing of traffic and. 00:56:28
I do not know how this small parcel. 00:56:32
Can park 24 cars. 00:56:36
Seems almost impossible to me. And then to egress out on Sycamore Dr. 00:56:38
Totally impractical. 00:56:44
As was mentioned, I lived down at the bottom of Sycamore Lane. 00:56:46
And we already have a tremendous traffic. 00:56:51
Bottleneck now coming around that corner. 00:56:54
And. 00:56:57
The old Cottonwood. 00:56:59
What people do is they do not stop at the light. 00:57:01
They come up Sycamore Lane. 00:57:05
I just can't see adding more people and more cars to that little. 00:57:09
Neighborhood area where we now? 00:57:16
A tremendous amount of young families just right in. 00:57:19
Location. 00:57:23
So I'm totally opposed to that, I think. 00:57:24
Development. 00:57:29
The client that's proposing this has a small office building where we very rarely see any traffic there. 00:57:31
I would say that would be fine. I think we would all agree with that. But when you introduce that amount of stories. 00:57:39
And that. 00:57:46
And especially if he's adding residential. 00:57:48
No. 00:57:51
Can only have. 00:57:53
Car. 00:57:55
Everybody that has an apartment has a minimum of two cars and if there's families, three room apartment or something. 00:57:56
There's just no way they will be parking on the street. 00:58:04
Down Sycamore Dr. And I think it's. 00:58:07
A Daydream to think that that can be housed there. So my opinion is that. 00:58:11
As Dave Dean mentioned to let's deal with a master plan. 00:58:17
And do something that will look nice in that hole. 00:58:22
Help our neighborhood to maintain our. 00:58:26
Thank you very much. 00:58:29
My name is Kristen Hunter and I live at 4666 S Sycamore Dr. 00:58:36
One, the first thing I want to point out is just. 00:58:43
I am opposed to this project. 00:58:46
The first thing I want to point out is just. 00:58:49
Even mentioned in this meeting, this is just a rezone application. 00:58:52
But with the approval of the. 00:58:56
Would. 00:58:59
The zoning laws that are already in place. 00:59:01
Which after talking to Carrie, she said, and I quote it's almost impossible to change zoning laws. 00:59:04
So we know that with this, that's why we're here. That's why I'm here tonight. 00:59:11
Is because by this rezone. See. 00:59:17
Appro. 00:59:20
Move forward. 00:59:21
We're now looking at the holiday city zoning laws, which are what we are opposed to. 00:59:24
The building height. 00:59:30
The density, the the parking restrictions, all of those laws. 00:59:31
So although this is just a rezone meeting, I think it has. 00:59:36
Utmost importance as to the future of what this project would bring and that's what. 00:59:40
I'm that's why I'm here opposing this as well tonight not just the read about I I'm I'm sure I would be at the redevelopment 00:59:46
meeting as well opposing it. 00:59:50
But I also know that once we get to that point. 00:59:54
We're dealing with the zoning laws that are already in place that are impossible to change. 00:59:57
So. 01:00:01
The other thing I want to point out is living. I live on Sycamore Dr. 01:00:03
And I believe Brad. 01:00:07
There be proposed exit on Sycamore Dr. 01:00:09
Given the choice to turn left. 01:00:13
Heading towards Marie Holiday Road or? 01:00:17
Down Sycamore Dr. 01:00:20
No traffic to the right. 01:00:23
Very hard to turn onto Murray Holiday Rd. if you go left. 01:00:25
I think a high percentage of people exiting this proposed project would turn right down. Sycamore Dr. 01:00:30
And that is through the residential neighborhood. It's a very wide St. people speed because it's wide. There are no sidewalks for 01:00:37
safety. It is the safe walking route. 01:00:43
St. Dedicated for the state of Utah for the students because Olympus Junior High is 2 streets East. 01:00:49
It's frequented by students at all times of day. 01:00:57
But at the same times, the traffic would be coming and out of this project in the mornings and the evenings. 01:01:02
Coming and going and that's when the students would be there. 01:01:09
So I I think that. 01:01:13
We need to keep in mind that. 01:01:16
And Sycamore Yeah, Sycamore Dr. already has traffic. It's already hard to turn from Sycamore Dr. N onto Murray Holiday Rd. 01:01:18
There is a. 01:01:27
If you're facing north on Sycamore Dr. and Murray Holiday Rd. is here perpendicular. 01:01:28
The light to the left, which is about, I want to say 2530. 01:01:34
East. 01:01:40
There is a slight it's slightly obscured the traffic coming down. 01:01:42
So that's something to be aware of as well. I don't know if the city engineers here or if he's what traffic traffic studies he's 01:01:48
done there, but that's what I wanted to say. Thank you. 01:01:53
Thank you very much. Please no applause. 01:01:59
I'm going to remind you that this we're not going to applaud at this meeting. Thank you very much. Please. 01:02:06
Allen Gibson, 2008 Zero E Delmont. So I'm about two houses. 01:02:15
East. 01:02:21
Of the backyards of those properties. 01:02:22
So I have a few comments and some past history of the 2051 Corner property. This property was zoned residential, as was all of 01:02:25
holiday Murray Holiday Rd. There for a while, but that one there was residential at one time and with residential. 01:02:33
You know the neighborhood input conditional use was changed to allow allow an office on Murray Holiday Rd. With a Max of two 01:02:41
parking spaces and keep the residential access to the residential neighborhood on Sycamore. 01:02:48
That was the Wayne Jansen property. 01:02:55
Back before holiday even came. 01:02:58
And the zone changed, but with conditional use. So it looks and appears as a resident residence on, you know, on Sycamore. 01:03:01
And no, no engineering was needed for this change, the sewing type change or anything like that. No architectural stuff. And none 01:03:09
of that was needed. It was just he wanted approval to change, put an office in his front front of that or the site, I guess of his 01:03:14
house. 01:03:19
And that's what. 01:03:25
And anyway, with the change from Salt Lake County to Holiday City, the conditional use was done away at some point without any any 01:03:28
neighborhood residential. Public input on that property was just done away with, and the property was just a plain RM Zone and 01:03:33
part of that. 01:03:39
Back in Salt Lake County, was that it would stay. 01:03:45
Looking like a residential. 01:03:49
Type property, not a. 01:03:51
Whatever whatever RM could have done for the county or whatever RM can now do for this, the City of holiday. 01:03:53
So now it's just a plain RM zone with no conditional use attached anymore, and that was an unintended rezone of the property 01:04:03
without coming before you guys or anybody else once it switched from county. 01:04:09
To Holiday City. 01:04:16
And. 01:04:17
A quick note on the property or a par. 01:04:19
When that dentist office went into few streets or a few houses. 01:04:22
On Holly Blvd. or Holly Lane Excuse. 01:04:26
Which is parallel to Sycamore. 01:04:30
A lot of cars started parking there. They put up no parking signs there if you ever go walking through that neighborhood for 01:04:32
walking it. 01:04:36
Look for the No Parking Zones, which is now. 01:04:40
Well, site for water or something, whatever they're doing on that corner that used to be a residence there also at one time. 01:04:44
And so I'm against. 01:04:50
Big changes. I'd rather have the property look like residential, the property next to 2051. 01:04:52
Looks like a residential, even though it's a lawyer's office. 01:04:59
It fits in with the neighborhood. I'd like to keep it small like that without having to go through a lot of engineering or 01:05:02
architectural drawings or anything like that. Just keep it. 01:05:07
Low simple. Make it look like residential even though it may be on Mary Holiday Rd. 01:05:12
Thank you very much. 01:05:18
I'm Lorraine Gibson on 2080 Belmont Drive. 01:05:31
That was my husband Alan. He I will ask him to say a couple of things, which he didn't. So I'm going to. 01:05:36
We live behind the office buildings that are just east of that. 01:05:45
And there is. 01:05:51
Light pollution because of those buildings in our neighborhood, not just. 01:05:54
Our lot. 01:05:59
Through the block. 01:06:01
And so. 01:06:03
This will just add more light pollution into. 01:06:06
Houses. 01:06:09
That's what I wanted to. 01:06:11
My name is Deborah Hafer and I live at 1992 E Crest Hill Dr. also known as 4625 S. 01:06:17
I have been a residence for over 31 years in this neighborhood. 01:06:25
And with the Cottonwood Mall and the traffic on Highland Drive and 4800 S, that intersection on Highland Drive and 4800 S. 01:06:29
Is very, very busy. So those people waiting to turn left would drive a 4625 S, 4675 S and Sycamore Dr. comes speeding through our 01:06:37
neighborhoods, which is why speed bumps were installed on all three of those streets as well as Sycamore Dr. 01:06:45
To keep the people speeding through the neighborhood. 01:06:54
Right after those were put in on Sycamore Dr. a gentleman came flying up the street along Sycamore Lane to Sycamore Dr. 01:06:58
Hurt his car, lost some parts and got out and was angry and said why are these speed bumps here? You've taken my quick way home. 01:07:06
And the neighbor said that's why they're here, is because you guys come speeding through a residential neighborhood. 01:07:13
So my concern is this is a residential neighborhood. 01:07:18
The Holiday Hills isn't even finished or developed in all those cars. They're going to be on Highland Dr. 4800 S They're going to 01:07:22
come through our neighborhoods. Again, as was stated, it's Sycamore Dr. is a state. 01:07:29
Approved. 01:07:36
Children walking. 01:07:38
What is the traffic impact going to be And then you add this other development of this amount of. 01:07:39
Density, we're just creating more and more traffic our roads. Highland Drive is going to be narrowed down to the new plan to be 01:07:46
narrowed 40. There's not room for expansion to allow for all of this traffic that I think we need to address and I know that the 01:07:53
plans can be changed. Look at Sugar House, their master plan. 01:08:00
It's not working. They're already having growing pains with the parking. Do we want to become another sugar house? I don't think 01:08:07
so. We don't have the roads to allow for all this development. And I think that we need to look at the neighborhoods between 45th 01:08:14
and 48th and Highland Drive and 23rd of how many people are living in there. This is not an older neighborhood dying. This is 01:08:21
families moving in, remodeling, completely tearing down their houses. And we have a lot of children and I think that. 01:08:27
Exiting on Sycamore Dr. Nobody's gonna turn left. I've lived here for 31 years. It is difficult now to turn left on. 01:08:35
4800 S What's this gonna do here? Those people are not gonna go back on left if they can go on 4800. 01:08:42
40 Emory Holiday Rd. From the property. They don't need to come on Sycamore Lane and expect to go on Marie Holiday Rd. So I'm 01:08:48
against this as well as well as the zoning change we're locked in. 01:08:54
To what can happen in development so. 01:09:00
That's my concerns. Thank you. Thank you very much. 01:09:03
K Reed, 2070 Delmont Drive. 01:09:14
I'm against this. 01:09:20
As I sat in my home this morning today. 01:09:23
I noticed already. 01:09:26
Delmont's getting. 01:09:28
Already. 01:09:30
People don't. There are cars that come through there that don't live there. 01:09:32
And they're just passing through using Delmont already. 01:09:36
As a. 01:09:39
We can't have any more traffic than that. 01:09:41
And once once the mall gets up and going. 01:09:44
What is that going to add? 01:09:47
We can't have extra traffic here. 01:09:49
I'm against this. 01:09:52
Thank you. Thank you very much. 01:09:54
Thank you for having this planning meeting. Appreciate all the work you do. My name is Jack Solomon. I live at 2051 E Delmont 01:10:00
Drive. 01:10:05
I am an advocate. 01:10:12
For dogs and kids. 01:10:14
And I'll be very brief that I do a lot of gardening and in my front yard many times. 01:10:18
And there are children traveling. There are no sidewalks in our neighborhood. You're aware of that? 01:10:24
It's very dangerous. People have to. 01:10:32
On the. 01:10:36
So I'm advocating for children. 01:10:38
And dogs. 01:10:42
Dogs will probably get more of the attention, I bet you. 01:10:45
But that's my comments that we need more studies on sidewalks, more studies on signage. 01:10:50
And more traffic studies. Something they need to take those little rubber hoses out and look at the number of cars that travel on 01:10:58
these roads. 01:11:04
If we're going to follow the master plan of turning Murray Holiday Rd. Into a massive. 01:11:10
Residential and business area. Thank you very much. 01:11:19
Anyone else for public comment this evening? 01:11:30
All right, Brad. I believe we will close the public hearing at this point and then invite Mr. 01:11:38
OK. All right. We'll go ahead and close the public comment. 01:11:46
And would you like to come up and address any of? 01:11:48
Anything you wish to to comment on? 01:11:53
Yeah, I guess. 01:11:57
Flip to my notes here. 01:12:00
Umm. 01:12:02
I understand the concerns. 01:12:05
You know, I have children and dogs. 01:12:07
And I live on the street with no sidewalks. 01:12:11
So I do understand. 01:12:14
And I think. 01:12:16
You know we have options as property owners. 01:12:18
To say well, if we live in the current room. 01:12:23
Then maybe we don't stay. 01:12:27
And be neighbors and we sell it to somebody who's going to put up. 01:12:30
As much as they can on a residential. 01:12:34
Under the current zoning and we walk away. 01:12:37
Or we can. 01:12:40
Allow the zoning change. 01:12:42
That the master plan contemplates and then let us address a plan. 01:12:45
With the neighbors. 01:12:52
To say this is what we'd like to do. 01:12:53
Our initial plan was what can we do? 01:12:57
Under the. 01:13:01
But not necessarily what after comment from our neigh. 01:13:02
Because we want to be neighbors, what we can do? 01:13:07
And what we will do are completely different things. We're not, you know, we. So let me address the ownership. 01:13:12
I am an owner of both properties. I have partners, law partners who are based in Miami. 01:13:21
So the Minorca address and the Florida. 01:13:30
Company that owns the property is me and my two partners Leon Patricius and Josempano. 01:13:35
So it's not like we're some. 01:13:42
Company that's, you know, swooping in to change the world here. 01:13:46
Umm. 01:13:50
So I believe that we can change the. 01:13:51
Allow our office use to be an approved use as opposed to a conditional use. 01:13:56
And then allow us to work with the neighbors to come up with a plan. 01:14:02
To say we would like an office, My partners in Miami would love to have an apartment. 01:14:07
When they come to. 01:14:13
So they could use it to go skiing or be here. 01:14:15
I would like to retire someday and may end up living upstairs and being part of the neighborhood. 01:14:18
So. 01:14:25
An opportunity at this point to do anything but say. 01:14:27
The current uses are conditional uses. For Office, we would like to have a permitted use in the office zone. 01:14:32
And then deal with the. 01:14:40
At the next. 01:14:43
So we're not the plan we proposed and throughout. 01:14:45
To the. 01:14:50
We receive valuable. 01:14:51
And if we were just developers who said we don't care what our neighbors say? 01:14:54
We're going to build what we can build. 01:14:59
But we're here, we're going to be part of the neighborhood. We're going to be part of the community. 01:15:01
And we're. 01:15:06
Going to build something that every time somebody walks by my office, they spit on the ground or throw their trash. 01:15:08
Or say, you know, why are you doing this to me in my neighborhood when we're part of the community and we want to be part of the 01:15:16
neighborhood? 01:15:20
So I'll leave it with that. 01:15:24
Thank you very much. We appreciate that, Mister Helston. 01:15:25
All right. So with the hearing closed at this point, the Planning Commission will go ahead and discuss. 01:15:29
Between ourselves. 01:15:36
First, Miss Marsh, did you have any comments you'd like to make? 01:15:39
No, just any questions that you have, you can also discuss with staff, OK. All right. 01:15:42
Thank you. 01:15:49
Any. 01:15:52
To start out with Angela, you look like you've got something. 01:15:54
That you're thinking about saying. 01:15:58
I just it it's it's clearly a you know. 01:16:03
This is an issue that's close to people's hearts, so that's just. 01:16:08
It's tricky to. 01:16:12
What should we do and cut to the heart of the issue? I think one thing that we talked about earlier in our work meeting that I 01:16:14
thought was very helpful, which I didn't know because I also don't have the city code memorized, was the differences between the 01:16:21
the RM and the PO zones. I don't know if you guys want to talk about this, but but my understanding is. 01:16:28
The room zone does allow for townhomes or condos. 01:16:36
So those theoretically could be built up to a height of 35 feet already in the in the zone right now, with the set back meaning 01:16:40
the space between. 01:16:45
The building and the property line. 01:16:50
20 feet. 01:16:53
Whereas the PO zone can build to 40 feet, but the set back is bigger. It's 30 feet. Is that? Did I get all those details correct? 01:16:55
So I just didn't understand that. So so it does feel like. 01:17:03
The. 01:17:07
You know, as I was reviewing this issue, it felt like the PO zone really changed the the, the tone of the neighborhood. But 01:17:08
already in the RM zone actually it it could be high density, it could be a very high building and it could be much closer. Is is 01:17:15
that my understanding is correct on that. Yes. So developing that PO zone we did look at. 01:17:21
Office uses that were adjacent to residential uses and how to offset the impacts of. 01:17:29
Buildings. 01:17:36
Next to residential uses, so in the PO zone you we did increase that set back from residential neighborhoods to 30 feet. There is 01:17:37
a 5 foot height increase but it is set back. 01:17:44
Another. 01:17:52
Being on there as well is a graduated height, so buildings have to be stepped back if they're within a specific area, and that's 01:17:55
all to reduce visual and light impact on surrounding properties. 01:18:01
Thank you. 01:18:11
Speak to, well, a couple of issues. The 1st is the general plan. 01:18:16
I I didn't help write the general plan, and I don't know if any of these folks did, but it is clear from the general plan. 01:18:23
That this is a an encourage use. 01:18:32
And that, but the purpose of the encouraged use is the part I'm struggling with and that is. 01:18:36
To enhance property values contribute to the economic sustainability of the city. 01:18:43
And typically that means. 01:18:47
More opportunity for office and no retail. That was specifically the decision that the council made. 01:18:50
Was number retail? 01:18:59
But the office use that's there, as I understand it, is permitted only because it was there prior to the general plan and the 01:19:02
current zoning and that I would have expected a plan. The plan can always. 01:19:08
There. 01:19:17
Made an argument for how we're upgrading the site and enhancing the property values and contributing the economic sustainability 01:19:18
with better offices or more offices, more professional offices, more kinds of offices, medical services for example, which is 01:19:24
always. This is typically the reason we grant. 01:19:30
These is because it allows the owners to diversify the kind of services, professional services, available to the members of the 01:19:37
community. 01:19:42
OK. 01:19:46
As I understand it. 01:19:48
One office building that's going to stay. 01:19:51
As an office building. As a lawyer's office and the other lot completely turn into an apartment complex. 01:19:55
Right. 01:20:03
The proposal or potential proposal would mix the use so it would have offices and apartments. 01:20:05
Right. And I and I realize it and I. 01:20:14
The purpose I think of us making and we're not going to make a decision today with a recommendation, but. 01:20:16
The criteria for the recommendation have to do with our belief that it will result in an upgrade of the building and a site and 01:20:24
will enhance property values and contribute to the economic sustainability. 01:20:30
Of the city, OK. If you add a bunch of residential that doesn't enhance the economics of the city, that's a negative to the city. 01:20:36
Businesses generate. 01:20:46
Positive property tax flow to the city. Residents are a negative tax flow to the city and that. 01:20:48
So I and and I would encourage the developer if you would like to come up or the owner and and and speak to this issue but. 01:20:57
How are we meeting the goal of this optional zone? It's not mandatory. It's one that is part of a plan that was never finished. 01:21:07
And that and. 01:21:18
So. 01:21:21
Our recommendation, in my mind ought to be based on the belief that something has been presented tonight. 01:21:23
That would tip. 01:21:30
To making this one of. 01:21:31
Of the the half mile developments and that. 01:21:35
So anyway, that's my kind of my thinking that I'm going through and that. And then I realized that we kind of put the owner in an 01:21:40
awkward position because he's not obligated to have any plan, he's just obligated to request and then but. 01:21:47
The ordinance implies that he has to be carry the burden of showing that we're going to enhance property values and contribute to 01:21:55
economic sustainability and it'll be an upgrade of the building and or the site. 01:22:02
So far I haven't heard that. 01:22:10
On. 01:22:12
Can I comment on that Commissioner Cunningham? So in the PO zone approved uses are office uses. Any residential use that the 01:22:13
applicant would like to pursue in the future would be a conditional use. So at that point the Planning Commission could evaluate 01:22:20
that balance of. 01:22:26
Are you balancing some office use with a proposed mixed-use development? 01:22:33
Yeah, I I I realize that I I think you know the way that the ordinance actually says is give preference to the properties where 01:22:41
these things. 01:22:45
Or Prism. I'm having a hard time finding them. 01:22:49
I think the zoning is OK. I mean you know that decision was made by the council years ago about shifting to appeal and that and so 01:22:54
I don't want to revisit that's not our job but and that but I for my. 01:23:02
What I've heard so far. 01:23:11
I'm not sure why this is a preference, a preference recommendation. 01:23:13
Would that be an appropriate? 01:23:19
To go with APO. 01:23:23
So the PO additional use right PO zone is a conditional mixed-use. 01:23:26
So the future development redevelopment would have to be a mixed-use so. 01:23:33
And I think there's maybe a lack of clarity about what's being proposed because we don't have that application, but the 01:23:39
application would need to be a mixed-use. 01:23:43
Long as. 01:23:47
The law practice on one property. 01:23:49
Could they not propose the entire other property be residential? 01:23:52
That's a mixed-use because they now combine the two properties into a single parcel. 01:23:57
At that point it would be 1 parcel with a mix of uses, yeah, that's what I mean. So they could. 01:24:03
An existing business. 01:24:12
And only add. 01:24:13
But at the same time, what we're discussing tonight is. 01:24:18
A rezone from room to PO for those two parcels. 01:24:23
At this point and and there is no other proposal before. 01:24:28
For a redevelop. 01:24:34
At this time, so to consider to consider what may be down the road which. 01:24:36
Could change at. 01:24:42
Is kind of like trying to predict the weather. 01:24:44
Absolutely. I'm just saying that the way the ordinance is written, it requires. 01:24:49
That we give preference to the ones that meet this criteria. 01:24:55
In my opinion, they don't. Therefore, I would recommend that we not give that recommendation as a fur preference and then. 01:25:00
I'm not. I'm not sure whether it was a good decision or bad decision by the owner. 01:25:08
To. 01:25:14
Have a whole plan out there, right? And that could where it was unnecessary, right? 01:25:16
But it's out there. I would say a couple of things, I think. What a comment that Mister Dean made. 01:25:21
Where And you had brought this up earlier? 01:25:31
If there had been a small area master plan put out initially. 01:25:37
Where we could evaluate these projects as they came in against a small area master plan. 01:25:42
Boy, that should would sure make things a lot clearer. 01:25:51
Unfortunately, we don't have that sort of a road map. 01:25:57
So we're going to have to take these projects kind of piece. 01:26:01
And then? 01:26:07
We're going to have to. 01:26:08
Zoning changes and so forth as they come. 01:26:10
I just. I don't know. I just have a philosophical issue with. 01:26:16
I understand that people don't like change. 01:26:23
But I also look at this property and I look at some of the comments made about traffic and parking and. 01:26:27
So forth. 01:26:34
And I think it's unfortunate that what. 01:26:37
I understand we're only talking about a zoning change, but we're looking at a zoning change. 01:26:41
With some pretty serious implications. 01:26:46
And. 01:26:50
I don't know. 01:26:53
According to staff report, in 2018, the City Council considered the. 01:26:59
Holiday Mile or half? 01:27:05
And all these were part of that consideration and that vote. 01:27:08
Yes, and maybe Mr. Turling can speak to that process of what that evaluation looked like. But they did look at all properties that 01:27:13
were zoned as RM and being used as professional offices, the properties that are adjacent to residential uses. That's why the code 01:27:22
was written for the PO zone to have a further set back. All these uses have existed as professional offices. 01:27:30
Looking at the future redevelopment, those were the standards that were set in the professional office zone in consideration of 01:27:40
all of those things. 01:27:44
A public hearing was held at that point. Building height was evaluated at that point in time, and that's what it was set at for 01:27:48
the professional office zone. 01:27:52
So we understand. 01:27:57
Someone. 01:28:00
Mr. Helston could have bought this, or could have. 01:28:03
App. 01:28:06
To raise both buildings on the property and. 01:28:07
Condos. 01:28:13
And those condos could. 01:28:15
Occupied a footprint on the property that would have had a 20 foot set back and. 01:28:18
35 feet high, correct. 01:28:27
Yes, that's what he can do currently. He could do that currently without any zoning change, which would not then that would have. 01:28:29
That would not have address. 01:28:38
Could possibly not have addressed any of the residents issues relative to traffic and. 01:28:40
Parking and. 01:28:48
Um. 01:28:50
View. 01:28:51
Mitigation and light and so forth, correct? Right. That would just be a building permit. 01:28:53
Brian, So I think there's some concern here that we're trying to rewrite how we want this to proceed. I think the woman with the 01:29:01
baby was. 01:29:06
Probably heading the direction that maybe the City Council needs to be aware of is. 01:29:11
Do our codes adequately address this? Because when you rezone something, there is a built-in set back those type of things to 01:29:16
handle or to least do the best possible way of mitigating the impacts now. 01:29:24
Granted, looking at this property, a single story building, anything that's taller than that is going to be an impact. And that's 01:29:32
the difficulty with this one, because it is. 01:29:37
You know, in my eyes it's a beautiful little property, but. 01:29:43
You know, I don't own the property. I don't really get to say much about it, but. 01:29:46
Did we just make a recommendation to the Council and let them have the discussion of whether they want to revise the? 01:29:54
The zone to be a little bit more receptive to this. 01:30:01
Because I think we want to change how the application is being proposed. 01:30:04
But I think we need to stay with what we have and what the general plan has suggested. 01:30:09
I think, Paul, you were kind of leading that direction. 01:30:15
To me, I think that's where we that's what the Planning Commission is. 01:30:19
Asked to do at this point, yeah, our purview is simply to consider. 01:30:22
This rezone application. 01:30:29
And either forward a favorable or an unfavorable recommendation to the City Council for the the residents that are here. Planning 01:30:32
Commission tonight will make some sort of recommendation to the City Council. 01:30:39
This item will then appear on a City Council agenda in the next. 01:30:47
Meeting or two, I can't say exactly what the date is because I don't know. 01:30:53
And and it is the City Council who will ultimately make the. 01:30:57
So we hope your passion will carry you forward to discuss to the City Council and to to share your comments. 01:31:02
At that time as well, regardless of what our decision is this evening, that's just an informational. 01:31:09
Information for you, Angela. We haven't heard much from you. 01:31:18
I was thinking about this question that Paul. 01:31:24
Commissioner Cunningham. 01:31:27
Had about. 01:31:30
Economic What is it? Enhancing property values and economic sustainability. Certainly the idea of, you know, added office space 01:31:32
and businesses, especially smaller businesses that would fit in something like this. 01:31:37
Is probably attractive to holiday, I think my. 01:31:45
One thought that I'm trying to tease out is there's certainly an impact on the houses right next to the a building that feels like 01:31:50
it's a little bit out of character. It's, you know, it's taller than it used to be there or what, it's taller than what's back 01:31:55
into the residential neighborhoods. 01:32:00
But also there's this larger picture of we've got the holiday village, we've got the royal holiday hills being developed and and I 01:32:06
think if there's this sense that that people can live and walk. 01:32:12
To places that where they can eat or you know walk to their office, walk to their doctor, hopefully. You don't have to walk to 01:32:20
your lawyer that often. I really, you know, that's not a great situation. But the the sense that that that there's this entire 01:32:26
strip where actually it's dense enough that you could theoretically walk to a grocery store, walk to. 01:32:31
Lots of the things that you need in your daily life. I think in the long run, and this is tricky, but but I do think that this 01:32:38
sense of walkability. 01:32:43
That this could enhance, you know, over years. 01:32:48
Would be attractive to a lot of people. I mean that that's a really tricky thing to say let's build it now in the hopes that, you 01:32:52
know, it's very walkable in 10 years. But but I think that the general, the general plan is certainly trying to say this is a 01:32:59
really important corridor and if we can make it so that people don't have to drive as much because there are more. 01:33:07
Things within a walkable distance, I think in a long. 01:33:14
To me, that does look like enhanced property values. 01:33:18
And and you know, livability, increased livability. 01:33:23
But it's kind of in this uncomfortable place right now, where? 01:33:26
Neither quite walkable nor quite as. 01:33:30
Spaced out as people want. You know it's in either place right now. 01:33:33
Well, and and Kerry, maybe you can address this just to Angela's point of walkability, the PO zone would allow the building to be 01:33:39
built closer to the street. Can you address the specifics of that? 01:33:47
Yes. So setbacks in the appeal zone were the buildings, because they're set further back from a residential zone they are designed 01:33:56
to be. 01:33:59
They can be built closer to the street. 01:34:04
Street. Having buildings closer to a street is a more walkable environment, Pedestrian friendly. The same kind of concept was in 01:34:08
the Holiday Village. Those ones are brought all the way to the street. 01:34:13
So there is still landscaping set back there in the front. 01:34:21
I think the. 01:34:25
Walkable areas are also they are property enhancing. There's been multiple studies and planning about walkable areas really 01:34:27
enhancing property values in the surrounding neighborhoods. 01:34:32
And economic sustainability as well. You're enhancing your office uses. So right now the law office has to be there in the future 01:34:40
if that's zoned as. 01:34:44
Other offices have the potential to occupy space there in that in any building that's constructed or in an existing building. 01:34:49
Thank you. Carrie. Is there any, are there any rules relative to how much? 01:34:58
Office space versus how much residential space has to occupy the building. Is there a ratio or there's not? 01:35:06
OK. 01:35:17
Brian, any further thoughts? One other thought I do think on that, on that PO, so you can't have residential unless there's 01:35:18
office. 01:35:22
Right, so you have to begin with an office use first before you can get to the conditional residential. 01:35:27
Thanks. 01:35:33
Thank you. 01:35:34
Angela, do you have anything? 01:35:37
More. 01:35:39
No, no, Jill. 01:35:40
I don't think so. 01:35:42
Paul. 01:35:44
All right, you. 01:35:46
My understanding is that when the City Council created the PO zone. 01:35:51
That they wanted to encourage property owners. 01:35:56
Who were in a legal non conforming situation with tenants or themselves as the occupiers. 01:36:02
To eventually move to APO zone so that they would be in a more. 01:36:11
Appropriate a more correct zone. 01:36:15
For their use and. 01:36:19
Offices on this property. 01:36:24
You can certainly a case can be made that a PO zone rezone would be reasonable. 01:36:28
And. 01:36:35
And so I can see how it would work. 01:36:39
To go ahead and move in that direction. 01:36:44
Considering that we don't have a small master plan. 01:36:48
To guide any farther. 01:36:51
All right. Do we have anyone on the Council or on the Commission, excuse me, who is willing to? 01:36:55
Make a motion at this time for a recommendation. 01:37:01
To the City Council who have ultimate decision making. 01:37:04
Authority in this circumstance. 01:37:08
I'll be happy to make your motion to get this started. 01:37:20
So I'll make a motion that the Planning Commission. 01:37:25
Not recommend this rezone. 01:37:30
With the. 01:37:34
Proposed findings. 01:37:36
That the reason itself is consistent with the general master plan. 01:37:38
For either professional office, commercial or mixed-use development or other similar areas such as the Highland Dr. Small Area 01:37:45
Master Plan area. 01:37:49
However. 01:37:54
I believe that the other two findings are that there is insufficient evidence that it will result in the upgrade of the building 01:37:57
and the site. 01:38:01
And that it will not necessarily enhance property values and contribute to the economic sustain sustainability of the city. 01:38:06
Do we have a second for this motion? 01:38:18
He moved that we not you need to talk in the. 01:38:21
Do I understand that your motion is that we not recommend the rezone? I'll second that clarify. So it would be forwarding it to 01:38:26
the council of the negative recommendation. 01:38:32
Thank you. So we have a motion by Commissioner Cunningham, a second by Commissioner Font, So let's go ahead and take a vote. 01:38:37
Commissioner Burnt. 01:38:41
So you you're I'm you're not supporting the. You do not support the motion. OK. Thank you, Commissioner Gong. 01:38:47
If I vote no, that means I think it should be recommended. 01:38:57
Correct. 01:39:01
OK, Commissioner. 01:39:04
Yes. 01:39:07
Commissioner Cunningham. 01:39:08
And chair votes. 01:39:10
So that vote fails. So you have to have. 01:39:13
So that that did not pass. So you currently stand with no recommended without a recommendation. We have zero recommendation at 01:39:17
this point. It would be a neutral recommendation at this point. OK, because is that something to pass? It's so. So in order for it 01:39:23
to pass and I want to make sure that the audience understands this, we have a 7 member Commission. 01:39:29
So in order for any vote to pass the seven member Commission when it is less than seven, you have to get 4 votes one way or 01:39:35
another to move it forward with for that motion to have passed so that motion failed. You can have a couple of options. You can. 01:39:42
You can propose a new motion. 01:39:50
Or any member of the Planning Commission could propose a new motion. Or you can leave it as is and it would basically go to the 01:39:52
Council with a neutral recommendation. 01:39:56
So do we have anyone who would like to make a different motion, or do we want to simply send this to the community or to the City 01:40:03
Council with a neutral recommendation? 01:40:08
If we forward a neutral recommendation, do they get a summary of the discussion or I mean, I'm I'm sure they have the information 01:40:16
we have. Yes, they will. They will have the minutes of the meeting. 01:40:21
They will have a staff report on what? 01:40:27
Then. 01:40:31
Mr. Chair Link, in fact, it may be quite possible that they. 01:40:32
Request a clarification on some specific items while they're reviewing. 01:40:36
This. 01:40:41
Motion. 01:40:42
So it's possibly want to come back to you clarify something and. 01:40:43
Bring it back and it's happened before. Let's be wary of that, OK, Well, and we've only got 5 members here as opposed to seven, so 01:40:48
that might it could be different with with a different number of us here. 01:40:54
The council would get a, you know, a tally of the vote, but because it wasn't successful with at least four votes, we would know 01:41:03
that it was a three, two vote. 01:41:07
They would have that information, but it wouldn't be a successful motion. OK, All right. So do we need a motion? Do we need a 01:41:12
motion to That's that's to Mr. Christopherson, do we need a motion or at this point, can we simply say we'd like to use forward a 01:41:17
neutral? 01:41:22
Recommendation, so that could be another vote. 01:41:28
Rather than you could have a motion to send a neutral recommendation. All right, Do we have a commissioner who's prepared to make 01:41:31
that motion? I would do that. I I would make a motion that we forward a neutral recommendation to City Council regarding this 01:41:36
issue. 01:41:41
Thank you a second. 01:41:47
Is Commissioner Baron I? 01:41:49
Thank you. All right, we'll have a vote, Commissioner. 01:41:52
Yes. 01:41:56
Commissioner Gong Yes. Commissioner Font, Yes, Commissioner Cunningham. 01:41:57
OK. All right. And chair votes. Aye. So with successful motion with four one we meet that we meet the benchmark for neutrality. So 01:42:03
thank you. All right. We appreciate all of the citizens that are here this evening. Thank you for making your voices heard, 01:42:11
whether it was through e-mail comment or through public comment. And we appreciate you participating and this issue will go to the 01:42:19
City Council to be considered. 01:42:26
Um. 01:42:35
At a upcoming meeting, check the city website for agendas going forward. 01:42:35
Thank you for coming and again, take your comments down the hallway as you as you head out. Thank you. 01:42:42
Our next? 01:42:51
A text amendment, I believe. 01:42:54
Did you want? 01:42:58
We order the agenda. 01:42:59
Well, I I was only asking for that on the thought that there may be people on the other two issues. I don't think there's going to 01:43:01
be any people on any issues. 01:43:05
So if we can just March through it, I think we're sitting clear at this point. 01:43:10
OK. 01:43:15
All right. 01:43:18
At least we didn't make him wait till the end. 01:43:20
So. 01:43:23
3 for you There are two for you this evening. 01:43:25
Is a follow up with our discussion with the Planning Commission on a text amendment required for state compliance for statutory 01:43:29
obligation on procedure of approving subdivisions. 01:43:34
The staff has been able to put together. 01:43:40
A fairly substantial text amendment for you in your packet. 01:43:43
Is M3 essentially documents? 01:43:48
One, the first one is a very red lined. 01:43:52
Section of code. 01:43:56
It was very hard to read. There's a lot of blood. 01:43:57
That section is your procedurals and your submissions. 01:44:01
Staff is proposing to amend that dramatically, just to just to clean it up. 01:44:06
Those specific sections have to do with this idea of a three-step approval process, which. 01:44:10
Covers all of the Planning Commission's review and procedure for everything from site plans all the way to subdivisions. 01:44:16
So with the subdivision amendment comes with these amendments for a site plan. So that's what that first section is, it's it's 01:44:23
cleaning up the site plan process to be congruent with the subdivision of review and approval process. 01:44:29
That's your second document. 01:44:36
The one that's pretty clean. 01:44:38
That is a complete rewrite. 01:44:40
Staff is proposing that as a complete rewrite for text amendment for procedural subdivision procedure and review process. 01:44:42
That will essentially replace the third document that's in your packet, which is what your subdivision regulations are currently. 01:44:49
So rather than just completely having all these strikes and rewrites. 01:44:58
It's more concise, it reads clearer. It's much. 01:45:02
Easier to understand. Plus it gives some very specific language that the state statute is requiring all municipalities to have. 01:45:08
One example is a review cycle. A review cycle has to be defined. 01:45:17
We didn't have that type of definition. It was difficult to find out where. 01:45:21
In sort of trying to insert or wedge it into your into your current ordinance. So the proposal from staff is to remand. 01:45:26
Redact. 01:45:34
The subdivision regulations, section 1310 and replace it. What's been what's in your packet? 01:45:35
That was a lot of work. Thank you for providing. 01:45:42
With the version without all of the markings because that was really, really difficult to look at. 01:45:46
OK, so this evening, what we need to do then? Do we need to have a hearing on this? OK, we'd like to open the public hearing on 01:45:52
this text amendment. Is there anyone who would like to speak to this? 01:45:58
We will now close the public hearing on this text. 01:46:05
And I gotta get it in while you can. OK, So commissioners, do we have any discussion, any questions for staff? 01:46:09
Yes, thank you. 01:46:19
OK, so. 01:46:22
As hard as I tried, I wish I had eyes like a chameleon, so I could be looking at one thing and looking at another at the same 01:46:24
time. 01:46:27
So if the city doesn't do anything at all with this, it's mandated through the legislature to change automatically, correct? 01:46:31
Or it's not quite that no. The mandate is update your code. 01:46:40
The mandate is update your code to comply with this new process that we've laid out. OK, well, I I appreciate the clarification. 01:46:46
I'm just we're doing what they're asking to correct. Is the language the same as what they have shown in the proposal? Because 01:46:52
that's what I was trying to find it. No, it's not. And John could speak to this. So there's some flexibility in the code, for 01:46:57
example. 01:47:02
The state. 01:47:08
Gives you an optional public hearing. 01:47:10
You can have. 01:47:13
But you don't have to have. 01:47:15
Holiday is opted to have one. This proposes to have a public hearing before the Planning Commission. 01:47:17
You don't have to. 01:47:23
But and I can speak to several other cities. 01:47:24
I don't know the city yet that is not opting to have a public hearing. 01:47:28
Makes sense. So that's just one example. So the legislature, thank you, excuse me, for cutting you off. The legislature is also 01:47:33
asking for a definition of timing, right, And that you were just saying that I. 01:47:39
So is the concept plan being considered to be just a staff? 01:47:46
And again, I apologize, I really tried to get through this and understand it all and I want to understand that. 01:47:52
We don't want to overtax staff with saying you can handle all our stuff for us but. 01:47:59
Well, I think that's the mandate his state. 01:48:04
You have a staff. 01:48:09
And especially designate them as a land use authority where applicable. 01:48:12
And in this specific situation. 01:48:16
Concept is no longer required. 01:48:19
You can. You can highly recommend it, but the concept review meeting is with staff. 01:48:21
And staff is just there to make sure that the application is complete. 01:48:27
And they're providing all the elements. 01:48:32
That is essentially the concept level and then your preliminary is everything up until. 01:48:34
Civil development plans. 01:48:42
Once it gets that highly engineering detailed level, then it goes back to the. 01:48:44
Land use authority, which is designated. 01:48:50
For a maximum of four review cycles back and forth. 01:48:53
So essentially what they're trying to do. 01:48:57
Essentially, try to speed up a process which is presumed to. 01:49:00
Thank you. I was going to say ours is pretty efficient. Absolutely. We're pretty good at it, but most, most municipalities have 01:49:07
been targeted as being slow. 01:49:11
So that's essentially what it is intending to do. 01:49:16
And the legislature obviously is just getting some predictability in this every process so that. 01:49:20
As they do their business right and not get held up, where they're being approached by is a home builders association, this is 01:49:26
saying. 01:49:29
Every municipality is different and their process is different. It's difficult to keep track of. 01:49:34
Some are quicker, some are slower, some are extremely slow, some are backed up. 01:49:38
The process needs. 01:49:42
You know, standardized throughout the entire state. OK, I wish I could legislate that my life be easy. 01:49:45
However, you can see in your in your packet there's a few sections that are highlighted. 01:49:53
Those are optional situations that you can make a recommendation on to the City Council to review. 01:49:57
One of them in there is our street lighting. 01:50:05
That was in green, I believe in green. 01:50:10
Those are elements that aren't necessarily a required situation. We don't have streetlights in a lot of our municipalities or 01:50:13
neighborhoods. 01:50:16
And that could be a policy going forward the the the City Council wants us to continue to look at. 01:50:21
So those are the highlighted in green elements. 01:50:27
And you've made a note in here about do we want to create an exception for subdivisions of one lot or duplex or townhomes? 01:50:33
And. 01:50:41
And I would weigh in favor of just having it because I think not having a public hearing causes as much. 01:50:44
Concerned. I think sometimes they just want to know what's going to happen. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I forgot to 01:50:53
address that. 01:50:56
Several years ago, the state statute was mentioned, a minor and a major subdivision process. 01:51:01
For minor subdivisions, for lot splits, no more than two. 01:51:07
The Land Use Authority remains with staff. It is available to be remained at staff. 01:51:12
Holiday has never gone that route. All subdivisions go to the planning. 01:51:17
And the Planning Commission is designated as the Land Use Authority for those approvals. 01:51:21
Same with public hearings. 01:51:25
Dealing with that in my mind back and forth, it's highly likely that I'm anticipating the City Council will prefer to have that 01:51:29
remain at the Planning Commission level. 01:51:33
With public hearings. 01:51:38
So. 01:51:41
Purpose of this meeting tonight Do we need to address these specific highlighted sections or can do you want a motion that is just 01:51:43
to whether we. 01:51:50
Are in. 01:51:57
Or don't approve this. What is? What is addressing for specifically you? You can take any approach you want on that, so it can be 01:51:58
if you want to go through these. 01:52:03
These green items and make individual recommendation or and we like these ones and we don't like these ones. You can do that if 01:52:07
you just want to say. 01:52:11
You know, we've reviewed it, We're comfortable with what the City Council says. Go ahead and pick and choose. 01:52:15
But you couldn't be that general. 01:52:20
And and John and Kerry would have. 01:52:23
The burden of explaining that to the Council. 01:52:26
If you just want to say that, you know, you could make a recommendation that the recommended changes the red lines we like the 01:52:31
green ones were reasonable. 01:52:36
But we didn't make a recommendation on the Greens. 01:52:41
OK. Does the Council make the policy decision on? 01:52:44
Yeah. And you could do that. So in particular, if you look at page 12, line 38. 01:52:47
This is new language that hasn't been in our ordinance prior, but it's always been kind of a sticky point. 01:52:54
With Planning Commission. 01:53:00
Subdivisions proposed to you, they need that little extra square footage to get them to X number of square feet. 01:53:02
And so there's this strange foot, or this weird angle, or. 01:53:10
Chunk that's unusable. 01:53:15
Um. 01:53:18
In past, it's kind of been seen in the public eye as it being a little gratuitous as a way to. 01:53:18
Interpret the code to say, well yeah, they meet the square footages, but that area can't possibly be used. 01:53:24
For anything other than. 01:53:30
Maybe where the wheelbarrows get stored? 01:53:32
You know that type of thing. This is a concept that sort of addresses that concern that's been that's popped up in the past. 01:53:35
Other elements that have been added in there are specific to holiday, have to deal with waterways, natural and man made. We have a 01:53:43
slew of them. 01:53:46
So we're. 01:53:51
A lot of those elements. So if it looks good the way it reads now, you can recommend it as is, or you can pine in on what you 01:53:52
believe is appropriate. 01:53:57
Does anyone have any particular strong feelings? I'm curious why the lights keep flickering on. 01:54:04
They're flashing lights. 01:54:11
That was kind of a squirrel, you know, squirrel moment, but. 01:54:14
She feels like we're wondering if I was missing the music that went along with the show or something, but I apologize. That was a 01:54:18
total wow diversion there. Any strong feelings or thoughts on this before we? 01:54:25
Have some questions because I feel like I you know, I'm. 01:54:32
Lacking context, so the general I think my general understanding is. 01:54:36
The legislature. 01:54:42
Has been, is becoming. 01:54:44
Fairly developer friendly. 01:54:47
And so a lot of things are made to streamline things or make things clear. I mean, I think that's. 01:54:49
May be OK, but but I'm just trying to understand the broader implications. So I mean holiday is just a small part of the valley. 01:54:55
We can't control what's happening elsewhere. But in terms of just general applications, does this mean that it's more likely that 01:55:01
things are going to sprawl, going to be built out with less open space? I mean it's not that we can change anything about that. 01:55:08
I'm just trying to understand not necessarily basically what they're saying is. 01:55:14
In between the lines, is, your subdivisions are. 01:55:21
Hopefully an allowed use. 01:55:25
If it meets the ordinance, it should be passed, and it should be passed quickly, efficiently. 01:55:28
If at some point Holiday decides to change the zoning scheme of the entire city. 01:55:33
To reduce the number of subdivisions and curtail. 01:55:39
The idea of sprawl, that's definitely their purview. That's still their their their authority as a police power. 01:55:43
To regulate their own land use rights for the city, the process by which that occurs. 01:55:49
Has been somewhat truncated so that it occurs more efficiently. 01:55:54
So it's not. 01:55:59
It's not the necessarily things will be more or less built up, it's just that the process is shorter and more clear for yeah, you 01:56:01
know and essentially. 01:56:05
Brad is really excited. 01:56:10
We had this whole overarching theme of monarchy housing. 01:56:12
Housing that needs to be. 01:56:16
And the idea is that, well, we're not getting enough homes out there quickly enough. 01:56:18
And so the idea. 01:56:23
Also, some builders are stuck in the process of subdividing. 01:56:25
That's why from Homebuilder Builders Association's point of view is they can't get the product out there quick enough. 01:56:29
So this is another. 01:56:34
Sort of tick in that process to help that through. 01:56:36
Oh, sure, Yeah. So availability, sure. Availability. 01:56:41
Legislature. It's two sides of the same coin. Some will say it's. 01:56:48
Developer friendly others will say it's an effort to. 01:56:51
Having some downward pressure on home prices if you can build them quicker. 01:56:56
There's more competition. 01:57:01
Taking advantage, Yeah. So there's price will come down, but we have scarcity. 01:57:03
There's scarcity, there is no competition, so that's the competition benefits. 01:57:09
The seller or. 01:57:14
Sure, I think in what's odd. 01:57:15
Commissioner, gone for you. 01:57:18
Neighborhoods. 01:57:20
Is that? 01:57:22
A different animal. 01:57:23
You don't have a bunch of greenfields that we're developing and planning with roads. 01:57:24
New subdivisions and pipes, except for, you know, Royal Holiday Hills subdivision. That's kind of its own animal. 01:57:28
But. 01:57:35
So we're being placed in this bucket with a lot of other municipalities. 01:57:37
I guess my other question is thank you. Thank you. My other question is implications for the holiday in the long term so. 01:57:43
You know, it gives staff more responsibility. 01:57:50
Bigger burden? 01:57:54
You know, your land use authority and it moves things faster. If in the future, what if we have a smaller staff or a bigger staff 01:57:57
or a staff who's not as competent and efficient? I mean, just are there future implications that we should think about in terms of 01:58:02
do we want to retain some kind of? 01:58:06
It's positive control or no, it's possible. However, I don't know how you're going to get away from that. If the river is a 01:58:12
staffing issue, we do have contract services that we we use for that type of. 01:58:18
Help resistance. 01:58:24
However, in the past a lot of your sub. 01:58:26
You defer the final. 01:58:30
Staff anyway, most of the time, yeah, 80% of the time. 01:58:31
And you have the right to do that, to do that. 01:58:35
You can also review your concept and preliminary together tandem. 01:58:38
In the ordinance that is already built that way, some of them come to you. 01:58:43
Pre prepared that way so. 01:58:48
Umm. 01:58:51
I mean staff will we move pretty quickly. It's really it's the applicants engineering side and the development sides. 01:58:52
Is really the the hang up sometimes? 01:59:00
OK, so it's not going to like sync you guys to just have to? 01:59:05
I don't think so. OK, great. 01:59:09
Other thoughts? Just one final point, I don't want to try and revisit every item on the here because I trust the staff. 01:59:13
Indicated these changes for. 01:59:21
And I'd hate to see unintended consequences by us starting to try and create something that we can understand a little better. 01:59:24
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I do want to say that I support staff and the recommendations and. 01:59:32
I think I'd have a difficult time in breaking pieces out. I don't know how the Commission feels. 01:59:40
I don't want to. No, I did that for 30 years. I'm tired of doing that. I personally would be comfortable to just say this is good. 01:59:46
You know, I appreciate that and I'm glad we do this in a transparent, open way. 01:59:56
Let me address something really quickly the Utah League of Cities and Towns has been able to. 02:00:04
Is that a grant or how was it funded? OK, so the legislature. 02:00:11
Actually is throwing some money out there to specific consulting firms, specifically attorneys offices. 02:00:16
To review municipalities proposal changes. 02:00:21
Luckily, our firm is one of them. 02:00:26
This specific code was modeled after language that has already been submitted to their office and reviewed. 02:00:28
So it's very similar to another example that's been looked at and deemed appropriate. 02:00:36
All right. Well, we like city staff, so 18. OK, All right. Do we have anyone who's ready to make a motion on this particular issue 02:00:44
this evening? 02:00:49
I'm Ricky here, so I don't have the language written out, so I know I'm going to screw this up. I would recommend we forward to 02:00:54
the City Council, the proposed ordinance. 02:00:59
Subdivision language. 02:01:04
Is that sufficient With a positive recommendation? Yes. Thank you. 02:01:09
OK, do we have a 2nd, I'll second that right motion made by Commissioner Burnt and seconded by Commissioner Cunningham. Let's have 02:01:13
a vote, Commissioner Cunningham. 02:01:18
Commissioner, Fund aye, Commissioner Gong aye. Commissioner burnt aye and chair votes aye as well. Unanimous motion to move the 02:01:24
text amendment forward with a favorable recommendation. All right, let's go to the next item on our agenda, which is the. 02:01:32
Preliminary and final plat review for the Wheatland subdivision. 02:01:42
So. 02:01:48
Car. 02:01:50
OK. This application is the preliminary and final for the Wheatland subdivision. This is at 4930 Westmore Rd. It's. 02:01:55
Currently church property that is being subdivided into 10 lots. 02:02:06
The applicant is proposing a street ext. From Delaware up to Westmore and. 02:02:11
The five lots on each side of that new public St. the public St. will be accepted by City Council at a future meeting. 02:02:19
And all of the building permits will be handled for each individual residential lot. 02:02:28
And I'll have the applicant come up and he can present any further details. 02:02:35
OK. Thank you. 02:02:40
Good evening. We you guys have seen this, just give us your name and address just for. 02:02:50
1214 E Vine St. Thank you. 02:02:58
You guys have seen this preliminary review, this preliminary plat? 02:03:01
I think two or three weeks ago. 02:03:07
It hasn't changed. 02:03:10
Submitted all. 02:03:11
Platt Stormwater plan and civil plans to carry. We've gotten the red lines back from her and resubmitted today. So. 02:03:14
Nothing's changed. I'll answer any questions if anyone. 02:03:23
OK. Thank you. 02:03:27
Commissioners, any questions for? 02:03:30
Mr. We. 02:03:33
Any questions for city staff while we're here? 02:03:38
Has there been any proposed resolution on that one little corner spot on the northeast corner? 02:03:41
Was asked about in the public hearing. 02:03:50
Yeah, what the? Well, there's a tree or a tree and some grass area that would be where the the road would normally end. 02:03:53
Yeah. So that's that is city property. So it has nothing to do with this subdivision. 02:04:04
The city, it'll just remain city property. I let that property owner know the process that he can apply for it to vacate that 02:04:10
section and apply it to his. 02:04:14
Property I haven't heard anything back from. 02:04:19
Might cost money. 02:04:22
Thank you. 02:04:25
Well, I as I have and I've been here for all the meetings, which is always nice when you're here for all the meetings to review 02:04:30
everything. I I think you've put together a really nice subdivision here and and a great plan. We appreciate your completeness in 02:04:38
getting everything submitted and that we can get to this point to be able to to. 02:04:45
Vote on a preliminary and final. 02:04:54
It looks like from staff findings, that everything. 02:04:59
Is has been submitted that the lots comply in size. 02:05:03
That complies with general plan. 02:05:08
Storm water and public improvements have been. 02:05:13
And fire access and that that everything looks really good. So we appreciate your attention to detail. Do we have anyone who's 02:05:17
willing to make a motion this evening? 02:05:22
I'll be happy to make a motion that's a long motion and that so I motion that the Planning Commission approved the preliminary 02:05:27
plan and final plat application by Benjamin Wheat for Wheatland Subdivision A10 Unit residential subdivision located at 4930 S 02:05:35
Westmore Rd. in the R110 zone. 02:05:42
Based on the following findings, 1 development details required for a preliminary and final site plan have been submitted and 02:05:50
reviewed by the TRC to each of the lots comply with the minimum width 80 feet and area 10,000 square feet for single family home 02:05:57
development in the R110 zone 3. The development complies with the general plan for the required submittals for preliminary 02:06:05
subdivision development have been provided where applicable and have been found to be complete and acceptable 5. 02:06:12
Preliminary level drawings were not subject to conditional approval. 02:06:20
Concept plan was approved unconditionally, 6 storm water detention areas and public improvements have been received by the city 02:06:24
engineer and seven fire access has been approved by the UFA. 02:06:30
Subject to the following requirements. 02:06:38
One post development bonding requirements is determined by the City engineer. Two final plat notation shall include. 02:06:42
One, a tree canopy Sustainability ordinance requirement of two additional trees planted per lot. 02:06:50
And roadway, sidewalks, curb and gutter, and driveways to comply with all standards detailed in Title 14. 02:06:58
To address all comments from the City Engineer for final approval. 02:07:06
And within one year in accordance with 1308. 02:07:10
.010. 02:07:14
D5 to defer administrative review and approval of the final plat by the Community and the Economic Development Director following 02:07:16
a positive written recommendation from TRC. 02:07:22
This is Commissioner Verdell. Second that thank you. All right, and let's have a vote. Commissioner Burnt. 02:07:29
Commissioner. Commissioner. Gone. Yes. Commissioner Font. Yes. Commissioner Cunningham and Chair votes. Aye. Thank you, Mr. Wheat. 02:07:37
We appreciate it. Thank you all. Appreciate it. All right. 02:07:42
I mean this. 02:07:50
Thumbs up What does it mean? Two additional trees? 02:07:52
Two additional additional to what? 02:07:56
For each lot trees additional to 0 like they just have to plant 2 trees, two additional trees. 02:07:58
In addition to whatever is there, Is there anything there? Yeah. Yes. Because you're creating a new streetscape. The curb, 02:08:06
gardens, sidewalk and park circle be there and that's where those trees in the park strip will be placed. OK, thanks. 02:08:12
All right. And we are rounding third base for the evening. So we'll go to our last agenda item, which is Royal Holiday Hills. 02:08:20
So discussion of block. 02:08:30
And I don't have my paper in front of me, so we'll invite the applicant to come up to or sorry to Miss Marsh, to come up to 02:08:33
present. 02:08:37
I can. Thank you. Are you going to have Mr. Tierling present this one? And I am going to exit the meeting. OK. Excellent, Mr. 02:08:44
Chairlink. Thank you. Appreciate it. 02:08:49
Action item for the Planning Commission tonight is review and consideration of the preliminary and Final plan for Block K. 02:08:54
In the Royal Holiday Hills Master Plan subdiv. 02:09:03
Block K if you remember is the mixed-use development or block on the east, farther and east side along memory lane. 02:09:06
For royal holiday. 02:09:14
This is a phase that when. 02:09:16
Conceived the General Plan or the smaller Master Plan. 02:09:19
We didn't think this phase would happen this soon, frankly, but it's it's good to that we're taking advantage of the need for 02:09:23
housing. 02:09:27
For the 100 units that are proposed here. 02:09:32
Myriad of mixture of styles. 02:09:35
The Planning Commission approved a concept layout for the site in August. 02:09:38
Specifically. 02:09:43
Reviewing the architecture for the detached single family homes. 02:09:46
The applicant has made a significant change in that architecture meeting more than Acura of. 02:09:50
More traditional Gable ended style homes. 02:09:55
Which you can see in your elevations. 02:10:00
The multi family and the townhome product remained very similar to what Block D which is the current building that's being built 02:10:03
and finished up now. 02:10:08
Specifically the utility connections and all of the. 02:10:14
The nuanced civil work is detailed in your packet over several pages. 02:10:19
And I'll let the applicant go through those as well. 02:10:24
Another issue that we, the Planning Commission, was wanting to take a look at is the idea of a. 02:10:28
Walkway or pedestrian access onto Memory Rd. 02:10:32
Memory Lane. 02:10:36
We do have a situation where there's a great change. 02:10:40
Great change from memory lane down to the lots would be in this area. 02:10:44
So I think because the SDMP doesn't really address St. improvements on memory lane. 02:10:50
We'd like to take a look at that as a policy standard point of view with the City Council. 02:10:56
Rather than just sort of apply it to this development phase. 02:11:03
Because I think it's going to be much more significant than what we are anticipating it could possibly have to be or what to look 02:11:06
like. 02:11:10
In the meantime, the applicant has proposed A detailed trail plan that goes on the interior. I'll let him show you where that is 02:11:14
located. 02:11:19
So other than that, staff is comfortable that the preliminary and final plan meet the SDMP. 02:11:25
For development on block. 02:11:32
Which is strictly residential. 02:11:34
And the architectural in heights with utility connections, et cetera. 02:11:37
Are congruent with that approval. Now the applicant is who is selling the property to a developer. 02:11:43
Has requested an updated water availability letter. You'll see that that's written in our staff report as a condition. 02:11:50
I think they're still waiting on that updated water availability requirements. 02:11:58
That really, we already know that these units can be serviced by selling Public Utilities. 02:12:02
They're just asking for additional clarification on what those connections are supposed to look. 02:12:07
And I am anticipating that should come soon, but they're always delayed. 02:12:13
So that could be a condition going forward that a. 02:12:18
OK, I'm going to invite you, John, to scroll the computer screen so that we're all looking at the same. 02:12:23
Thing and. 02:12:29
With with that being said, Are you ready for us to invite? 02:12:32
The applicant. All right, come on up. 02:12:37
Hello. 02:12:42
Now it's a nice thing to come before the Commission at the end of the meeting and not have all the crowds here. 02:12:44
Hi, Brian, how you doing? Thank you. 02:12:50
We're excited to get this phase going. One of the things that's really nice about this that we tried to do with the single family 02:12:55
lots as well as. 02:12:58
Building this phase now provides A buffer from all the construction that's going to continue to go on that site for the neighbors 02:13:02
that are across the street. So we think that part of it's really good in addition to getting more housing into the city of holiday 02:13:08
that we really need in a variety of types from detached single family to stacked flats. And so I'm going to interrupt you and have 02:13:14
you give your name and address. Chris Longson, 4954 Fairview, Dr. Holladay, UT. Thank you, Chris. Sorry, I apologize for 02:13:20
interrupting your flow, but. 02:13:26
It's all good. And if you noticed my holiday address, I broke the number one rule 23 years ago. Don't develop in your own backyard 02:13:32
so some people don't learn. I know, so I haven't learned yet after 23 years. 02:13:39
Yeah, exactly. 02:13:48
So. 02:13:50
I think you know, we're here to answer questions. John wanted me to explain a little bit. There is a common misconception that 02:13:51
there's a pathway around the property that is required that was actually part of the ivory development plan. 02:13:59
And ours is just having our pedestrian ways, however we've embraced. 02:14:08
You know, trying to create pathways. Obviously we've always proposed in the SDMP we showed the pathway that went along Big 02:14:12
Cottonwood Creek. 02:14:17
We're also showing the connection to that. 02:14:21
John, do you have that plan? 02:14:26
Wasn't that if he go back? 02:14:29
This. 02:14:30
So if you want, let's see, not that one, go back, go back there. 02:14:35
How to point this out to you when the screens are John, Do you just want to point out where the pathway? 02:14:40
OK, so to the West of this. So this is up on top of the hill, right block K is. 02:14:48
Sunset Dr. is up on that level and then below that is situated blocks HI and J. 02:14:54
And you know, we're still planning those, but one of the things that will go in there eventually is a parking deck that will look 02:15:04
like a service parking lot at this grade because you'll have grade +2 levels. 02:15:09
Which will be about half of that. 02:15:15
Length of what you're seeing in on Sunset Drive. 02:15:18
But one of the things to enable us to develop or have the other developer develop Block K is we need to underground that section 02:15:23
of the transmission lines. 02:15:28
And so as part of that, we're working through those agreements with Rocky Mountain Power. 02:15:34
So the Commission. 02:15:40
They hate varying transmission lines. This will come at the cost of millions of dollars just for this small section. 02:15:42
To bury it, and we also have to have a fairly large easement in an area where the underground duct bank goes. 02:15:49
So along the West side of Sunset Dr. we will have a buried duct bank underground. 02:15:56
And we will have approximately 15 feet from our retaining walls that retain Sunset Dr. 15 feet from there till the edge of the 02:16:03
roadway and we haven't, we'll have an 18 foot easement with the power company for that duct bank. 02:16:10
In that 15 feet we can place landscaping. However, we can't place any trees in that area and so we are going our our our proposed 02:16:18
plan is showing an 8 foot trail pathway going in that area with landscaping on both sides of it. 02:16:26
And so that's where you know you can come up and loop. If you're coming along the Creek, you can come up. 02:16:35
It's still hard enough it would just cause all the water coming off the road to run right straight onto Block K and into those 02:17:16
homes. 02:17:19
So it doesn't really work for a trail. There are some pinch points as well. So we're going to take land internal to the property 02:17:22
and create that trail system in there and we can still down on. 02:17:28
The far South end, in the corner you can see where the writing is there, where memory lane comes down and curves around the 02:17:34
cemetery, where we can provide a pedestrian connect, another pedestrian connection to the neighborhood where somebody on that 02:17:40
street or in from that neighborhood can enter into this property. 02:17:46
There's a great change all along behind those homes and they'll have to be a fence along there to prevent people from. 02:17:52
Entering those yards or dropping into those yards, but when you get down to there, we have the ability to match enough grade to 02:18:00
get a pedestrian connection for the community. 02:18:05
Yeah, try to skip down to the landscaping plan. 02:18:14
You have to bear with me while this thing tries to process, it's going to blow up this computer. You want me to address this a 02:18:19
little bit, John? Yeah, if you wouldn't mind. OK, so as we're trying to. 02:18:24
Work with the the land that we have and getting these 100 units in here we've since the last plan that you have seen we've 02:18:31
actually oriented sunset, I mean Block K and and and the road internal to Block K to parallel a little bit closer to what Memory 02:18:38
Lane is doing. 02:18:44
Directions are all screwy on that property. E doesn't is not really east. 02:18:51
The roads aren't straight, but we've shortened up some of the backyards and done some different things to get, you know these 18 02:18:56
foot driveways in, but also enable a long sunset Drive on that east side to allow for a 5 foot sidewalk and have approximately 18 02:19:03
foot drives and be able to accommodate street trees. 02:19:09
Along that whole street on the east side since we can't get them on the West side, so there's been some re engineering to to 02:19:16
accomplish getting the landscaping. 02:19:21
To work and have St. Trees like we're having in the rest of the development, which. 02:19:26
Obviously the city encourages and and we've have as requirements in our STMP and we love them as well. 02:19:31
Creating a great neighborhood, so. 02:19:37
Those things have have have changed. 02:19:39
Eventually the substation will do a little. Is going to do a little. 02:19:43
Work and added We're going to lose most of the above grade polls, but there will be one new poll that goes up to replace all of 02:19:48
them where it comes up a back up above grade. 02:19:53
Then goes back down into the substation until they upgrade the substation. 02:19:59
And then it'll be set up already with a box and everything can be underground and that above grade poll eventually will go away. 02:20:04
And where is that substation? The substation? You see it every day when you drive Murray Holiday Rd. It's the one up on Murray 02:20:11
Holiday roads, OK? 02:20:14
Or I just? 02:20:19
Thought for a minute you were saying it was somewhere in Block K and I was gonna say, I always remember seeing the north side of 02:20:20
it. So right now you have multiple poles surrounding that that will reduce at least on you know the West and the and the east side 02:20:26
will reduce to the, I mean excuse me, on the South side will reduce to one pole. 02:20:32
That's where it will go under. 02:20:38
And then go to the, you know, underground to the South. 02:20:42
And eventually the way we will, we're setting it up with an entire vault that will enable that to in the future when they change 02:20:45
their equipment in the substation then they have plans it could be. 02:20:51
Two years. It could be 20 years with Rocky Mountain Power. They haven't decided yet, but it enables them just to pull a cable 02:20:57
straight from that underground box and eliminate the overhead pole. 02:21:02
Which will be great for all of us, but Oh yeah, you know. But we are eliminating all the overhead polls along Sunset in this 02:21:06
process. Except. 02:21:10
For one, which will be a new one. 02:21:14
Now I've got a question for you. Or did you find what you're looking for? I just wanted to go through the. 02:21:17
Landscaping go right ahead, right. I can say my question go ahead. Well no, I was just gonna you had you mentioned something John 02:21:24
about that. 02:21:28
The townhomes and the single family homes will be. Who will they be built by and are you selling the property to them and then 02:21:33
they'll build it or we used to retain? 02:21:39
Who built The Who built the homes on the the townhomes on Block L? This is a totally different type of product and a mixture of 02:21:45
product. So in the in the current site development master plan, all the homes that are along. 02:21:54
Along memory lane are required to be a single family detached product and that's why you're seeing that. 02:22:02
Once you come back into the property a little bit, the classification changes and we can build some stack flats in that area. 02:22:07
They're not, they're not even close to the maximum height that we're allowed, but they are a taller. So we're having the graduated 02:22:12
stepping as you. 02:22:17
Doing planning purposes to come off and go back into the higher density so. 02:22:23
And they will do both products, they will do all the product, they're buying the entire block, but you get it all set the way you 02:22:29
want it and with our agreement and with the city and then then they have. 02:22:35
Guardrails there within is that how it works, ask that question again I'm not sure I understood well I'm just I just I'm I guess 02:22:42
this is just sort of a just a comment on the process that you go through with the SDMP and you get it all arranged and then you 02:22:48
sell it off to them so they know exactly what they have to. 02:22:53
Operate within their guidelines, correct. And that in addition to you know, we've been taking this through the required 02:23:00
entitlements to get them so they can build their stuff we've we've chosen to. 02:23:05
Be here with them and we've been working with them on all their plans and we're we're you know they're building it they're buying 02:23:11
it but we have been you know working with them on the design and it's a it's a collaborative process. They will be the they will 02:23:16
be the end developer and seller of these homes but we have all our agreements how everything operates because it's on private 02:23:22
streets and so forth and. 02:23:28
All the common areas and access to common areas. And so we have all those agreements in place for for this to all work together. 02:23:33
OK, so go ahead. And so you did this with Block L selling. 02:23:39
But with Block D, have you retained ownership of Block D? We have retained, we have partnerships. So you I think you'll see in 02:23:45
this that every, every block will have a different ownership name and and potentially different partners. 02:23:52
But the main partner on this still you know is the main owner on OK on Block D that's great. Yeah. So all the all the commercial 02:23:59
and. 02:24:04
And the more dense product of the residential, I think you'll see. 02:24:10
You know that the owner will, you know, maintain control of all that. But who knows? They could all sell in the future and be 02:24:16
different parts. But that's why you have all the agreements to make sure it works all together so. Right. OK. Thank you. 02:24:22
John. 02:24:28
No, I mean, so for example, when a building permit comes in. 02:24:30
They'll be for individual houses. So what we'll do is we'll take that application from Vandell. We'll just compare it to what you 02:24:35
approve to make sure it's jives together. Mm-hmm. So there's there's that's the continuity. 02:24:40
OK, I think. 02:24:47
Reviewing the landscaping plan. 02:24:49
I counted. 02:24:52
250. 02:24:53
New trees. Not just landscaping, but just trees, which is significant for just this block. 02:24:55
That's a significant increase in tree canopy. 02:25:01
That's great. All we have is garbage trees out there right now that. 02:25:04
Grown overtime well and I'll just make a parenthetical comment that I really like the work that's been done out on Highland Drive 02:25:09
by those landscaping crews or. 02:25:13
Tree management. I don't know what you call them, but it looks like an actual. 02:25:18
Like a nice area or it's coming, it's coming along. We don't want to bring that subject cover around, John, right now because they 02:25:24
went a little beyond what they were supposed to. Fortunately, they cut the stuff, they cut down the willows and stuff to the 02:25:29
ground. They did not take them out and they will be back next spring. 02:25:34
But they did. The nice part that they've done is they did limb up the trees like they were supposed to remove the garbage trees, 02:25:40
but they did get a little out of control and that's going to be corrected in the next phase and just making sure of that. But it's 02:25:45
been a lot of people have complained about it and they did go beyond what the the agreement was and OK, well then maybe strike my 02:25:49
remarks. 02:25:54
I liked it but it looks a lot cleaner, but it looks cleaner. However you do notice along the new streets have been placed in the 02:26:00
London plains that are all planted. 02:26:04
New St. lights are in. I mean, it's coming together as you said. 02:26:10
I try not to drive where it says do not enter, but I do like to drive down the road and just see what I can find. Well, pretty 02:26:14
soon when Block D opens, all the roads are gonna be open, so you'll be able to drive anywhere in there pretty quickly here in a 02:26:19
couple of months. So OK. 02:26:23
I have some questions about the the 10 foot recreational trail and I might have missed a couple parts of this. So you said that 02:26:30
that's going to be part of that thing with the electrical stuff. So they can't plant trees next to that trail. We're on top of it. 02:26:35
We're on top of it. I. 02:26:40
And did you say it is going to be paved? It's a paved trail. It'll be a paved trail with lands. It's it's 8 feet wide. We have 15 02:26:47
feet there. So the rest of it will be landscaping. 02:26:51
Is it and I'm just trying to see if. 02:26:57
Read these diagrams correctly. Is it on grade with the roads that are going back into the? It's on grade with Sunset, which is the 02:27:01
Main Street there. You also have that 5 foot sidewalk on the east side of the street where the trees are, so you have sidewalk. 02:27:07
Pathway on both sides of the street. 02:27:14
So I'm just trying to imagine how people are going to use it. 02:27:17
For example, if you're with a toddler and you're going along but cars are driving in and out of the roads, you'd want to be on the 02:27:21
West side if you're. If you're just going for a walk and doing a loop, you're going to want to be on the West side if you're 02:27:26
coming out of the. 02:27:31
You have a sidewalk on that side of the street, Sure, until you want to cross. OK Is there pedestrian access up? And again, I 02:27:36
don't know which direction this is up towards Murray Holiday Rd. So that people can walk from there. On the corner on the South 02:27:41
side, there's there's that pedestrian connection. 02:27:47
There's a great there's a great difference off of memory on the other part where you can't. There's no way to pedestrian access 02:27:54
that other than climbing. 02:27:58
And then will the will the this big wide path, will it also cut into the commercial places so that theoretically people could 02:28:04
walk? 02:28:07
And feel pretty safe to go into the future commercial areas in the middle, this is above that grade. So on the northern half, 02:28:12
there'll be a, you know, what we're planning right now is a parking deck that the top level, the parking deck, so grade, grade +2 02:28:18
levels will be equal with that. So somebody could go in there and go down stairways or elevators to get down to the commercial, 02:28:24
but this is significantly higher. 02:28:30
Then then Rodeo Dr. 02:28:37
OK. 02:28:40
It's not quite 30 feet, but it's it's high. I mean you 20 it varies anywhere from about 18 to. 02:28:42
Maybe close to 27 feet. It's it's a significant grade change. If you go out there today, you see where dirt's laid back up on that 02:28:49
hill, that dirt's laid back there to build the the retaining wall. 02:28:55
For the parking deck and for the other things. And then that dirt will be used to backfill. 02:29:02
That retaining wall, and that's the reason for those piles of dirt that have been there. 02:29:07
Over 50 years now and we got stopped on our construction back in the financial crisis, so. 02:29:12
Yeah, OK. I'm just trying. I'm just trying to imagine and and you know, I'm still trying to put this together in mind, but just. 02:29:18
It would feel like a travesty if somebody's driving from Block K into the commercial space or driving to get on both ends the 02:29:25
grades. 02:29:29
Dissipate and you come down sidewalks and down those streets which are met you know meet ADA requirements and so forth. So all 02:29:33
that grading is taken into account that it will be easy to make that that transition in a in a walk. OK great. So I I mean this 02:29:40
the grades we have 30 feet of fall not just east to West but. 02:29:47
You know S to north and so it's hard to visualize all this comes together. 02:29:55
Should come out for a site visit We can take. I don't know if we can take planning commissioners on tours unless we take them. 02:30:00
Sure. No, we can. In fact, it would be a really great idea if John can set it up. I mean we've got right now is actually a really 02:30:06
good time because the residential isn't open and we could get access. John knows who's been out there. We could get access to 02:30:11
those upper floors and have you look over the whole side if you wanted to do it. That would be great. 02:30:17
Before it's all owned, when can we go? Can we do it without opening it up to the entire public? That was the only question. As 02:30:24
long as we take into small groups, yes. 02:30:28
What you can do site visits. 02:30:33
You'd have to notice a site visit, but if other. 02:30:35
But as long as we don't have four people. 02:30:39
Together on the trip, right. We'd have to have a smaller group and that's how the council has done it, but we'd be happy to. 02:30:42
Like so many of you are new. We've been living this forever and so we know it really well. So we would welcome you to come out and 02:30:50
have a look and again right now. 02:30:54
Is an awesome time because you get up on that fifth floor where the condos are in block. 02:30:58
Your views are spectacular, but it also helps. 02:31:02
Visualize where all these blocks are that you'll be talking about. So let's get it set up. Love to do that in the next couple 02:31:05
weeks and just. 02:31:09
Let's try and do it before the end of the year. 02:31:15
Yeah, yeah. In fact, it's especially when you talk about this. 02:31:20
The trail The first portions of the trail are in up against the Creek. 02:31:24
So when you stand on that trail, you now you would see it on paper, but you actually realize how wide it is and how separated you 02:31:28
are from either traffic or you know, other parking stalls and how close you can get to the Creek. 02:31:34
It's an experience. Well, I'm available next week. 02:31:41
So it would be helpful for you to see it. I think, yeah, I actually think it would be really helpful particularly for our newest. 02:31:46
Members of the Commission. It's not like I've even been on the Commission forever, so you don't even have a permanent name tag 02:31:53
yet, so. 02:31:55
I'm up there with it a dry erase. 02:32:00
I'm just sure that's what I'm feeling, Brian. Your probation is gonna be the. 02:32:05
We call them stylized name tags. 02:32:10
All right. Any other comments about the landscape? OK. Angela, did you get all your comments, all your questions asked? I think 02:32:15
so. And and that would be helpful to take a letter because I mean I didn't realize the elevation change was so big. You know, I 02:32:22
just we have a lot more every time we're bringing in another block, we're going to be here and so. 02:32:29
The more you can understand it, the better it'll be for all of us, yes. 02:32:36
Jill, have you got anything? I do not. OK, Brian, down down your end. 02:32:41
No, I don't have anything. We had a concern last time about whether or not some of the design elements really met the pallet. 02:32:47
I assume that you guys have worked that out and. 02:32:59
Was there anything significant change in the significant? 02:33:04
If I can get this to Scroll down, I'll show you. I don't have a what A comparison of what was previously approved or proposed. I 02:33:08
think you can remember kind of what they look like. 02:33:14
With the I just want to make sure that yeah, it was worth having the discussion and and the staff is satisfied if as soon as I saw 02:33:20
him I knew immediately that that's exactly what you were thinking. Well, I I remember because I was one of the ones made that made 02:33:26
the comment that said this is weird, no offense. 02:33:32
No offense to whoever else it was, but in a really good way. 02:33:40
Yeah, it just. 02:33:46
It just wasn't congruous with the examples that were presented in the STMP. And we're just picking on Alex 'cause he wasn't here 02:33:48
the last one, so. 02:33:51
He didn't. OK, yeah. So I think there are, there are three home types. OK here. Yeah, he's explaining. Here's one. 02:33:57
And. 02:34:05
So more Gable lands a lot of Gables. 02:34:07
Without the real. 02:34:12
You know, extreme pitches and flat walls. 02:34:14
And then the backs, yeah, I think there was a comment of the backs of the homes not looking so plain. 02:34:20
Yeah, here's the other. 02:34:29
These are really going to open up another product type that's less it's more affordable. 02:34:32
It hits a different part of the market that's going to really help our city. So when you say more affordable, I'm just curious if 02:34:38
you can give a ballpark issue. Well, the townhomes are selling for around $1,000,000. What what will must these go for? 02:34:43
OK. And how many beds? They're single family homes instead of townhomes, OK? 02:34:57
All right, most of these have 3 bedrooms. 02:35:02
I think all of them have. 02:35:06
Maybe we shouldn't go see these. 02:35:09
We do have an apartment for you to rent. They're only 3000. I'm sure you got a tough ****. I'll just think at the back end, some 02:35:11
person will get into affordable homing after home after six other people have moved up. 02:35:17
I said affordable for holiday. 02:35:27
With that caveat, we can. Yeah, then that makes sense. 02:35:30
All. 02:35:36
Let me get back to where we need to be so at this point. 02:35:38
Commissioners, do we have any important discussion between ourselves or are we ready to? 02:35:41
I have lost this again. 02:35:47
The power the pads don't work as well to transition with the big document files either, so. 02:35:51
Yeah. 02:35:58
All right. 02:36:00
3. 02:36:09
And John staff is. 02:36:12
Comfortable with recommending a favorable. 02:36:15
Yes, so favorable. 02:36:20
Preliminary plan approval. 02:36:23
And then there's still a plat that needs to be reviewed, so deferring a final to staff, OK, All right. 02:36:25
OK. 02:36:33
And we do need to make sure we get the remaining utility letters, but that's something that that's coming, OK. 02:36:34
All. 02:36:42
And. 02:36:43
Are you comfortable with having staff be? 02:36:45
Be able to take care of all these. 02:36:49
Details definitely, OK. 02:36:51
Well, with that, do we have any Commissioner that's willing to make a motion this evening? 02:36:54
I will, OK, Commissioner. 02:36:59
I motion to approve the Preliminary Site Development Plan and plat for Royal Holiday Hills Block KA 100 Unit mixed-use Residential 02:37:02
Subdivision in the RMU Zone located at 4833 S Sunset Blvd. Lane. 02:37:11
With final site plan and plat approvals to be delegated to staff Finding that the proposal 1 complies with the conceptual site 02:37:21
plan approved by the Commission for Block K2 construction elements and details are found to be acceptable by divisions. 02:37:30
The tech of the Technical Review Committee, 3 development details and all related components comply with the RMU zone and SDMP as 02:37:41
a master planned project and four preliminary plat is found to be formatted in compliance with City Hall and State of Utah 02:37:48
regulations. 02:37:56
Should I read conditioned and the conditions for final approval to be submitted to and verified and approved by Community and 02:38:04
Economic Development Director One submit all remaining utility connection letters to work with staff on all needful clarification? 02:38:13
Clarifications, Grammatical and or formatting changes to the final plat prior to recording approval and three submittal. 02:38:23
Of a vertical ownership component to the final plat, showing separation and delineation of owned spaces within each building, IE 02:38:33
common versus private. 02:38:38
Do we have? 02:38:45
I. 02:38:48
Thank you, Commissioner Gong. All right, Commissioner Burnt. 02:38:49
Hi, Commissioner Gong. Hi. Commissioner Font, aye. Commissioner Cunningham, I and chair votes aye. 02:38:54
So we'll have a unanimous approval of the preliminary site development plan. Thank you and we hope to see you very soon for 02:39:00
individual or small group tours. 02:39:06
OK. Thank you so much. Now at one point I thought I saw minutes. Yeah, in here, but I don't see minutes on. 02:39:13
It should be in your second-half of the packet, I just somehow didn't see them to prove. Did anyone have any comments for 02:39:22
substance? 02:39:27
Substantive changes to the minutes from the October 10th meeting. 02:39:34
All right then. 02:39:40
I motion that we approve the Minutes for the October 10th meeting. Do we have a second? 02:39:42
2nd, Thank you, Commissioner Cunningham, and let's just do all in favor. Aye? I have to abstain. I wasn't here. OK. All right. So 02:39:49
we have 4 in favor and one abstention. Is that acceptable? 02:39:56
All right. Do we have anything else that I approve? 02:40:03
I approve, with the caveat that I was not here. 02:40:09
But we have to have four of us to approve it. So thank you for being willing to approve. OK, All right. Next that, yeah is Paul 02:40:14
just mentioned the holiday calendar. When do we need to approve that meeting scheduled by? We will have a meeting on the 19th. 02:40:21
So you have a meeting in two weeks. Unfortunately, I do have some outstanding applicants that are looking for. 02:40:28
Space on an agenda. 02:40:34
So I will bring that 2024 calendar to you. If you have any changes that you'd like to see, let me know and I'll we'll list them 02:40:35
out. 02:40:39
Umm. 02:40:44
And you're going to get our tour set now. I'm all excited. 02:40:47
It's going to snow Friday. 02:40:56
All right, then we will go ahead and adjourn our meeting. 02:40:59
I kind of want to do that, so I've been waiting. 02:41:04
Thanks everyone. 02:41:07
Thank you. 02:41:10
Thank you. Good job. 02:41:10
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Transcript
Welcome. 00:00:03
We'll just get started. We have a first item is a zone map amendment. 00:00:04
This is for a rezone at 2051 and 2061 E 2 separate parcels. 00:00:10
Separate LLC ownership. 00:00:17
Rezoning both of those from RM2PO. So RM is a residential multifamily zone, PO is a professional office zone. 00:00:21
The zone PO was set up in 2019, designed to move. 00:00:29
Office use that is in the room zone into the PO zone that's detailed in your packet with both the code. This section also has 00:00:35
additional support in the General plan as a mixed-use zone. 00:00:42
Any questions on this one? 00:00:50
All. 00:00:54
And that. So I asked what I wanted to ask again with everyone else here so the PO zone would allow for. 00:00:56
Residential comp. 00:01:04
Yes. 00:01:06
Yes. So in the PO zone there is a conditional use for a planned unit development, so you could do a mixed. 00:01:08
Professional and residential redevelopment. 00:01:15
I read. 00:01:19
They're combining 2 lines for whatever reason, but one lot is going to stay. 00:01:22
As a business at. 00:01:27
For now, right. 00:01:29
And then? 00:01:32
And they replaced the one house. 00:01:33
A whole bunch of hous. 00:01:35
Right. So it will be the potential redevelopment because we don't have a redevelopment application at this point because that 00:01:37
would not be allowed in the zone that it currently is in, but potential redevelopment would be a new structure that combined 00:01:42
residential and office uses. 00:01:48
So one of them, sorry, one of the main differences that you'll see in the residential multifamily zone versus the professional 00:01:54
office zone, it was designed specifically as we're sorry, the professional office zone was designed as a buffer between major 00:02:01
uses. So like the commercial uses larger roadways. 00:02:08
As a buffer between those uses and residential properties. So in that we increased the set back from residential properties for to 00:02:17
be 30 feet. 00:02:23
In the professional office zone as opposed to 20 feet in the multifamily zone. 00:02:29
The height difference is 35 feet in the multifamily zone, 40 feet in the professional office zone. 00:02:35
So, so just a couple of clarifying questions for me. The scope tonight is just the rezoning, we're not. 00:02:43
Looking at their proposed plan, even though it sounds like they have a pretty concrete idea of what they're planning to do, right, 00:02:51
but that's a separate, yes, that's a separate thing. And so that that plan I mean we've. 00:02:56
There's a lot of public input on it. That plan could still be modified even after rezone, which we've done this kind of rezone 00:03:02
before. Yes, Yeah, this is a pretty standard rezone. We've done it for multiple properties on Highland Drive. We did one last year 00:03:09
for a office building that was on Highland Drive. 00:03:15
The I'm trying to think if there was. I know there's been a few. 00:03:24
But in the code specifically where it talks about the professional office zone, there's three standards for a rezone. And so 00:03:29
that's kind of what the analysis was on this one is here doesn't meet these things that were already pre designed for rezone. 00:03:36
And this is a rezone that pertains just to this property. It's not part of a an overall plan for excuse me for this. 00:03:45
Magnificent Half Mile or whatever it's referred to, right. So in the general Plan, you have future land uses and those future land 00:03:57
uses are a guide for future development. So with the redevelopment or rezone, so first looking at a rezone for this. 00:04:06
The PO zone is one of those zones that are identified. 00:04:16
In that in that strip of land between the holiday village and royal holiday hills. 00:04:21
So I guess I'm not clear about what we're voting on. In other words, we're voting on a rezone. 00:04:28
If we. 00:04:37
To rezone this property, Are we also voting? 00:04:39
For what's been proposed for this property, no, we wouldn't evaluate any sort of redevelopment until we get an application for the 00:04:44
redevelopment. 00:04:48
So. 00:04:53
A rezone doesn't lock in any sort of redevelopment. They property owners can rezone and leave them as they are. They can adapt or 00:04:55
change or remodel existing buildings. They can. 00:05:02
They can build a new or redevelop, but that redevelopment key is a separate matter, a separate application. 00:05:10
And sorry, go ahead. 00:05:18
And so you said they could under the current zoning? 00:05:22
Still also build a bigger building so so the rezone would only change for example the height. You said it would change it 5 feet 00:05:26
higher. 00:05:31
But they could. They could currently build up to 35 feet if they wanted to do it in the current room zone, Is that correct? The 00:05:37
Professional office zone also allows them to expand office uses. So in the room zone, office uses are not allowed. So their 00:05:45
existing uses are legal because they existed at the point of time that the RM zone went into place. But. 00:05:53
There they can't expand to other office uses. So the we did a prior rezone because they wanted to for another property, they 00:06:02
wanted to expand their office uses to have dental or medical professionals, beauty salons, those are kinds of things that are 00:06:09
allowed in the PO zone that are not allowed in the room zone. 00:06:16
So it allows an opportunity for business owners or property owners to attract more variety of office uses. 00:06:23
So the only real change is that it can go up five additional feet with a additional 10 foot setbacks that that's correct, right. I 00:06:32
think the biggest concern with the neighborhood was the encroachment of traffic. 00:06:38
It was going to go through and I know we're not talking about where the drivers were going to be, but in the discussions with 00:06:46
staff. 00:06:49
Is there has there been any consideration how the circulation on the properties will occur and that would be evaluated at that 00:06:53
redevelopment application. We look at the site plan we'd look at and the city engineer Firewood weigh in and see if their plan 00:06:59
works or if it would need to be altered. 00:07:06
So is there a stipulation for the future approvals that would restrict any type of driveway that? 00:07:13
Leads into the neigh. 00:07:20
You may not be able to answer, I'm just trying to figure out if there's a way to help answer some of the questions of the public. 00:07:23
And realizing that maybe this will just exacerbate their concerns without some of that additional information being. 00:07:29
Shown so, right. And that could be something that's discussed at the future application for redevelopment of the location of the 00:07:39
driveways. That is something that we've discussed with other redevelopment applications. You know where our driveway is going to 00:07:45
be located, what how does traffic flow in and out of the site? 00:07:51
So yes, that would be addressed at that point. 00:07:58
OK. All right. Thank you. It seemed that there were three concerns expressed. It was the traffic, it was the parking and it was 00:08:01
the height of the proposed height of the building. 00:08:06
Based on what we're voting on tonight. 00:08:13
We aren't. 00:08:17
For in one way or another, any of those things, Is that correct? So your role tonight is that you are making a recommendation to 00:08:20
the City Council. Rezones are a legislative matter, so they are decided on by the City Council. The Planning Commission makes a 00:08:27
recommendation either for or against the rezone. 00:08:34
But the other things like parking, driveway location, traffic, those are things that are addressed by the Planning Commission at 00:08:42
the point of a redevelopment application. And building height, building height is what is allowed in the zone, is what it's what 00:08:48
is allowed in the zone. 00:08:53
Which is currently 35 feet. 00:09:01
In a professional office zone, it would be 40 feet because that's what the zone allows. OK, So that seems to be a big issue with 00:09:04
the residents in the area, correct? Well, the residents have concerns about a plan that is not before us, so it doesn't. 00:09:12
It's not terribly pertinent to tonight's discussion, but that is part of the plan that's before us new. 00:09:20
There's no. 00:09:27
There's there's nobody plans of a building, it's a zone change. So it's simply something that is allowed if we approve the zone 00:09:29
change. 00:09:33
Then we are tacitly appro. 00:09:38
A. 00:09:41
That would could be 40 feet high. Is that correct? 00:09:43
Right. And you're changing to a different zone with different regulations, trade-offs there with setbacks. So it has to be set 00:09:46
back further in 30 feet instead of 20 feet. 00:09:52
35 feet versus 40 feet. All residential zones, depending on the size of the lot, to either have a 32 foot height limit or a 35 00:09:58
foot height limit. So it's. 00:10:03
Fairly close, it's just increasing a set back. 00:10:08
OK, so the way it's zoned correctly currently. 00:10:13
Somebody could build something that's 35 feet high, yes, they could build something 35 feet high. Multifamily property, 20 feet 00:10:18
back from a residential property. 00:10:24
Which? 00:10:30
Be worse, I would think OK and and the rezone would could result in something that is 40 feet high but 30 feet back. 00:10:31
Oh. 00:10:45
But since we don't have a plan in front of us, we don't. But I just want to make sure we know what we're, or I know what we're 00:10:47
voting. 00:10:50
I have just a friend. 00:10:55
We're over here fighting. Please follow me. 00:10:59
You were talking about the compliance with the General Plan, so this in the description of the staff report along this section of. 00:11:02
Murray Holiday Blvd. This is an anticipated future use, correct? Yes. So that area on Murray Holiday Blvd. Between the Village 00:11:12
and. 00:11:17
The old Cottonwood Mall site has been identified as a mixed-use area, no retail uses, and it lists appropriate zones for that 00:11:24
mixed-use. Those are identified. 00:11:30
On the second page. 00:11:38
As RM and PO. So you might have some properties that are RM, you may have some properties that are PO. So it does this plan in the 00:11:41
proposal for the planned office or professional office is in compliance with the general plans expectations and that's typically. 00:11:51
One of the baselines that we use to make a consideration or a decision, is that right? So consideration, you'll be looking at the 00:12:00
general plan and you'll also look at the rezone code for the professional office. That section of code does give you guidance on 00:12:07
when rezones to a professional office should be prioritized. 00:12:15
Although it's part of the master plan, wasn't there supposed to be a small area plan done that has not been done. 00:12:26
Yes, that was mentioned in the general plan that is something that can be developed at those master plans do take time. 00:12:32
It still identifies the area should be pedestrian friendly. 00:12:40
The professional office zone allows buildings to come closer to the street, which creates A pedestrian friendly environment so it 00:12:45
will be walkable between the two centers there. 00:12:50
But wouldn't it? Wouldn't it make sense to have that plan before? 00:12:56
Suddenly, in the middle of that area, make something. 00:13:00
At least at first glance, doesn't. 00:13:05
Not necessarily. It's because those take time to develop. They are something that can be developed in the future. We have to take 00:13:10
the application now as it stands. 00:13:14
So software is it a vested? 00:13:22
They filed for the application to rezone, right so. 00:13:28
Asking to have a plan for the future would not. 00:13:33
Affect this? 00:13:38
Right. 00:13:40
Correct. We would we have to process the application without it. 00:13:41
Carrie, just as a matter of practicality. 00:13:47
Because I you know, I voiced some concerns about set back and height and. 00:13:52
What's allowed now in the current zoning? 00:13:57
I don't think the residents in the area would be happy with. 00:14:02
Based on what the pushback we're getting. 00:14:07
How? How does it get communicated? 00:14:12
In other words. 00:14:15
The rezone application is approved and forwarded to or is forwarded to City Council. 00:14:17
How does it get communicated? 00:14:24
To the residents in the area. 00:14:27
Umm. 00:14:31
I don't even know how to say this, but how does it get communicated that look? 00:14:33
You know it's either. 00:14:39
An additional 10 foot set back with the five feet or. 00:14:41
You could be. 00:14:47
A current set back. 00:14:51
3035 feet, right. And I think that's going back to the general plan, remembering that our general plan, we did garner public input 00:14:53
and development of that. We garnered public input and had public hearings when we established the professional office zone. So 00:15:01
both of those things have had public input and public hearings on them. 00:15:08
Before they were established. So if you rely on those things for the basis of making decisions. 00:15:17
That is a fact based decision. 00:15:23
Thank you. I think one other thing that I think is important for the Planning Commission to understand. So when these come up for 00:15:31
a rezone, every resident within is it is it 600 feet, 505 hundred. So the state code requires 300 and holiday has opted to extend 00:15:36
that to 500 feet. 00:15:42
So anybody within 500 feet of that property gets a postcard in the mail that says, hey somebody, the owner of the property on this 00:15:48
address. 00:15:51
Has requested a rezone, and you're invited to give your public input. 00:15:55
That similar notice will be sent out when it goes to the to the City Council. So they have an opportunity to come in and weigh in 00:15:59
before the Planning Commission tonight or send an e-mail and they have an opportunity at City Council to do that as well. So there 00:16:05
is an obligation if you want to be informed, you can be. 00:16:10
But the city can't force you to be informed on these kind of situations, if that makes sense. Meaning the residents. So give them 00:16:16
an opportunity, yes. 00:16:20
But we don't knock on doors and send, you know, send members of the Police Department to go and make sure they know. So there's a 00:16:27
there's a duty and an obligation responsibility to participate if if you want to and based on the input that we have. 00:16:33
They obviously got. 00:16:41
They got word and they're not completely informed. 00:16:43
Right. So. So, yeah, I mean, so in my experience. 00:16:47
Change is. 00:16:52
No matter what. And so when you've lived in a neighborhood for a long time or you buy in a neighborhood and most people do not go 00:16:54
and look at the general plan when they go buy a house. 00:16:59
Probably should, but they don't. 00:17:05
So that happens with city roads. That happens in lots of situations where I had no idea that a road was planned here for the last 00:17:09
30 years and now it's being built and I don't like it right, that that happens often. I've seen that multiple times, but. 00:17:16
The. 00:17:24
The public has the ability to participate. 00:17:25
You also have the general plan that you were to weigh and kind of balance property rights with, you know, public comments. 00:17:28
Umm. 00:17:35
And that's kind of your duty as a Planning Commission to weigh those and then make a recommendation based on. 00:17:37
How you think that? 00:17:45
Balance. 00:17:47
OK. Thank you. Does that, does that help? Yeah, Thanks, Brad. I've got a question for you. We've. 00:17:48
We've got. 00:17:56
One person who's submitted a citizen comment form wanting to represent a group. 00:17:58
Do you have any comment for us on or any guidance for us on if that is except if that's allowed or so yeah, that's typically 00:18:04
allowed and what that usually most most often that gives you a little more time. So if you were usually limited to two or three 00:18:10
minutes, if you're representing a group of multiple people, then they would usually give you. 00:18:17
5 minutes. 00:18:24
OK. 00:18:25
I think the critical thing is. 00:18:27
To establish up front what the three issues are that we have to consider. 00:18:30
And not take public comment about all the other issues that we've read about that have nothing to do with today's topic. 00:18:35
Well and one other point of that I think is important to remember is the process for redevelopment and this is, I know you guys 00:18:43
have all had this, but. 00:18:48
Sometimes it's helpful. I mean, I go back to the code all the time. 00:18:55
So when when you want to change your land, use. 00:18:58
And it's not allowed in the zone that you have. You have one option, you go and ask for a. 00:19:04
So that's step one. You ask for the rezone because once you get the rezone, then that triggers the investment in an engineer, the 00:19:10
investment in architect, the investment in any sort of studies that might be necessary and it's expensive. 00:19:17
Right. So you wouldn't go to that investment in expense unless you knew that you could build? 00:19:24
And you knew the parameters with which you could build, right and in these in the residential multifamily, so they can right now 00:19:29
they can knock that building down, they can knock both buildings down and build townhomes that's permitted or apartments or 00:19:33
condominiums. 00:19:37
That's permitted right now and they don't need a rezone. If you switch to a professional office, you get that expanded list of 00:19:42
uses for doctors and dentists, things of that nature that Kerry referred to. And you also get the advantage of those same uses. 00:19:49
But you can build residential on top of those. But in order to get that, you have to have the professional office component first. 00:19:57
Right, so. 00:20:05
And the other question that might be important for you to understand or to consider is where is this use? 00:20:07
Kind of appropriate, right? This is a street that goes between royal holiday hills, which is a really high intense. 00:20:15
Dense use of both residential and commercial and then the village which is a lower intensity abuse of commercial and lower than 00:20:22
single family homes, but you know and lower than royal holiday hills, so typically you know when you plan. 00:20:30
Cities. Those kind of uses are usually compatible on a corridor between the two, right? So that is anticipated you'd have traffic 00:20:38
on that road anyway. 00:20:43
Because you have. 00:20:47
You have the village and then you have a royal holiday hills, so there's going to be traffic back and forth. 00:20:50
Between that anyway, So the idea is where's an appropriate? 00:20:55
You know location for these type of us. 00:20:59
Where that, for example, where that church is that is being torn down and redeveloped into residential, that would be an 00:21:03
inappropriate location. 00:21:06
You know, a multi, multi family or even a multi or mixed-use development because it's surrounded on everywhere by quite a distance 00:21:11
by single family homes. 00:21:16
This particular property is not surrounded by residential on all sides, right? So. 00:21:21
In a typical. 00:21:28
Kind of situation that's not an inappropriate place to put that. It's part of the general plan And so they plan that redevelopment 00:21:30
overtime that those uses would change based on this proximity to the village and based on proximity to Royal Holiday Hills. 00:21:36
So. 00:21:43
Thank you when we talk about the. 00:21:46
Things that we need to consider as we look at a rezone request. 00:21:51
It's detailed in 13.44, point 010 BI believe as listed on the second page of the packet. 00:21:55
Where it starts in evaluating any rezone application for this zone preference should be given to those properties which. 00:22:03
And those are the three points that we've we need to be evaluating this by, correct? 00:22:09
Well, that's what. That's what the City Council is. That's what the City Council has addressed. This is what we want you to look. 00:22:15
That is our direction as a Commission. Yeah. OK. So recommendation for recommendation that we forward. And. Yeah. And everybody 00:22:20
always wants to know, OK, well, if we give you this rezone, what are you going to do, right. I mean. 00:22:26
That. 00:22:33
That's the question. 00:22:34
When you're looking at it without another application or without additional information from and can you ask for additional 00:22:36
information? Yes. Are they required to give you that information, information at this stage? No. OK, thank you. All right. Let's 00:22:42
go ahead and move on to just quickly anything else that we need to cover in our work meeting the text amendment. 00:22:48
This right, we discussed that at a previous we discussed it previously. So that is state required amendments. 00:22:56
Item number three on the agenda. 00:23:04
Item number four is the redevelopment of or subdivision at Westmore at the property. So they have their plan with 10 lots. 00:23:09
And then Royal Holiday Hills Block K this is one we looked at before. So they're coming back for an evaluation. OK, great. 00:23:19
Anything else that we need to discuss in our? 00:23:24
Pre median. 00:23:30
Just a quick question, I know that there is going to be a change in like the preliminary conceptual. 00:23:33
Final when? 00:23:41
When does that change? 00:23:43
So that's required to be changed by February. You have a day John February 1st, but it won't be codified until 30 days after. So 00:23:45
anything that would be applied for in March would be would be applicable to this new code. 00:23:52
And that's another item that is a recommendation that you're forwarding to City Council as a legislative item. 00:24:00
Anything else, Paul? Did you have something? I was just gonna suggest that we move that text issue to the last issue on the agenda 00:24:07
and take care of the action items in the. 00:24:11
Is that OK with everyone else? Sorry. All right, then we'll do that. Sorry, moving that to. So we're going to move #2. We're going 00:24:17
to bump it down to the end, so to #5. 00:24:23
OK. 00:24:30
And just sort of. 00:24:31
Brad, do we need to hold all public hearings first? OK, no, I mean one of the one of the considerations why you usually put them 00:24:33
is if public is here to weigh in on that. 00:24:37
They can weigh in. 00:24:42
If there are some public speak to that when I be OK with that, I just the other two are more likely to have public interest and. 00:24:44
So should we move it or should we leave it? It should be a pretty fast review. If it should be pretty fast, then let's just leave 00:24:55
it where it is. OK? All right. We're going to take a 3 minute break and then we'll commence our meeting in just a couple of 00:25:00
minutes. 00:25:05
Thanks for moving down. We thought you were. Oh, I know. It's kind of like I just sit over and Heckle me, right? 00:25:17
You going down? I don't have anything. 00:25:23
That's what we do. Everything is. 00:25:32
What? 00:25:52
This is. 00:26:43
Yeah. 00:27:01
It's really not. 00:27:06
Well. 00:27:13
Because many. 00:27:14
Expect. 00:27:18
They go through this. 00:27:26
That's why. 00:27:35
That's. 00:27:43
5. 00:27:53
For example. 00:28:25
I couldn't remember. 00:28:29
Thanks. 00:28:44
Being attacked. 00:28:58
Yeah, it's a little bit. 00:29:04
Where's oh **** when we need them? 00:29:08
So hey. 00:29:12
Yeah, I thought. Yeah, just ask. 00:29:26
All right. 00:29:32
Good morning as ever you want, or good morning, good evening. I hope it's evening as everyone's coming in. If there are any public 00:29:36
comment forms in the audience that you'd like to bring up, feel free to bring them up to me or to Miss Marsh's. 00:29:43
They look like this. They're not required. But if you filled one out and you want to turn it in, we want you to have that 00:29:52
opportunity. 00:29:56
Welcome this evening to the Holiday Planning Commission. My name is Carrie Ann Prince and I am the Vice Chair of the of the 00:30:04
Planning Commission and will be conducting this evening's meeting. 00:30:10
I'd like to begin with a statement for your information. 00:30:18
The City of Holiday Planning Commission. 00:30:23
Is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special studies. 00:30:26
Make recommendations to the City Council on proposed zoning maps and ordinance changes. 00:30:33
And approve conditional uses and subdivisions. 00:30:39
The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications. 00:30:42
Rather, it acts on applications as they are submitted. 00:30:47
Commissioners do not meet with applicants except at publicly noticed meetings. 00:30:51
Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda where the location, the neighborhood, nature of the neighborhood, 00:30:56
existing structures and uses related to the proposed change are made. 00:31:01
Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff, the cities general Plan, zoning 00:31:07
ordinance and other reports by all verbal and written. 00:31:14
And by evidence submitted, all of which are part of the public record. 00:31:21
Now, just so you're aware, we do have some procedures that we follow here in our city in our Planning Commission meetings. 00:31:26
What we'll do is we'll introduce each item as it is coming. The city staff will make a brief presentation to introduce the the 00:31:36
item that is being discussed. 00:31:43
If desired, the applicant will then be allowed a few moments to speak to the Commission. 00:31:51
And then we will take public comment. 00:31:56
Comments are limited to 3 minutes only. 00:32:02
And speakers may only speak once. 00:32:05
Please. 00:32:09
When we invite you to come up, take turns. You need to state your name and your address where you live. 00:32:11
And we would request that you be brief and to the point. Since you've only got 3 minutes, you'll want to say what is important. 00:32:18
And we also ask that you don't repeat points that have been made previously. 00:32:24
And that. 00:32:31
You address any comments or questions to me as the as I am presiding at this meeting tonight and we ask that your remarks remain 00:32:34
pertinent to the topic at hand. Whichever issue you might be here to discuss, we appreciate your comments. We're glad to have the 00:32:41
public at our meetings. Our meetings are are are open to everyone and we are grateful for your participation in your community. 00:32:49
That's why we're all here. 00:32:56
Is to make our community better and to lift where we stand. So we welcome you this evening. Thank you for being here. 00:33:04
After the public comment is made, the applicant will be asked to come back up, address anything that they wish to comment on. 00:33:11
And then the hearing will be. 00:33:20
The Planning Commission will then discuss amongst ourselves. 00:33:23
What we're thinking, where we're at. 00:33:29
And consider the item and then take some action on it. The action could be. 00:33:31
To approve the item or give a favorable recommendation depending on what we're considering to. 00:33:39
Deny it, or to give an unfavorable recommendation, or to simply continue it to another meeting. 00:33:46
That is the general procedure that we follow. And then we'll move on to the next item. When your item is finished and you choose 00:33:52
to leave, which is perfectly reasonable, we ask that you go out and go down the hall before you start talking, because when 00:34:00
everyone talks right out in the lobby, it's really difficult for us to hear as we continue on the next item on our agenda. So 00:34:08
again, we're glad you're here. Thank you. And I'm sure we'll get to hear from many of you this evening. 00:34:15
Let's go ahead and begin with our first item, Miss Marsh. 00:34:23
Great. Thanks, Kirian. I'll be up at the podium. 00:34:29
So the first item on the agenda is an application to amend the zoning map made by Bradley Houston, the properties located at 2051 00:34:46
and 2061 Murray Holiday Rd. The properties current use is as primarily office space. There is one residential unit as far as I 00:34:53
know. 00:35:00
On the Sycamore Dr. side. 00:35:08
Rezoning from the RM to the PO zone. So RM is residential multifamily. The request is to rezone to the professional office. 00:35:12
Zone the professional office zone was created in 2018 at the direction of City Council, designed to move properties who that are 00:35:21
using their space as an office space. 00:35:27
Within the within the RM zone to the newly A newly created professional office zone. The zone was designed to expand the uses 00:35:34
available to properties who are using their their spaces as a professional office. 00:35:41
The council decided not to blanket rezone all properties. Instead, it would be done at the request of the property owner. So this 00:35:52
application is following that request and process laid out by the City Council. 00:35:58
Also in evaluating the general plan, this is in a mixed-use identified area at zones for that area, RRM and PO and I'll invite the 00:36:06
applicant to come up and he can discuss the rezone application in more detail. 00:36:14
OK. 00:36:22
Good evening. My name is Brad Helston. I may be a bit frazzled. I was rear-ended on my way to the meeting and spent the last 20 00:36:32
minutes exchanging. 00:36:37
Insurance information, but the person that rear-ended me anyway. 00:36:42
We, excuse me, can you just give us your address? Sorry, my name is Brad Helston and we are. 00:36:50
Well, my residence is 3120 Metropolitan Way. Thank you in. 00:36:57
Mill Creek and our office. 00:37:04
Is our current office is at 2061 E Murray Holiday. 00:37:06
We purchased the property at 2061 in 2017. 00:37:12
As a law office and I currently have. 00:37:18
Two employees with me in that office. That office was a converted home from the 1950s. 00:37:23
Wayne Jansen next to me, sold us their property a year and a half ago. 00:37:30
And was occupying it until the end of this year. 00:37:38
He recently moved out into her retirement center. And anyway, so. 00:37:41
We made an offer on the property and acquired. 00:37:47
As part of what we would like to do is to rezone the property consistent with the master plan. 00:37:50
To our. 00:37:57
Because our current use. 00:37:59
Office. 00:38:01
And in acquiring the property next door, we thought we would be able to. 00:38:03
Build a office for our. 00:38:08
Rather than simply, you know, flip it and sell it to some developer who's going to come. 00:38:12
Throw up. 00:38:17
What? 00:38:19
So our intent is to remain. 00:38:21
As part of the neighborhood and be part of the community rather than just. 00:38:25
Throw it to a developer to maximize space and use anyway so our application consistent with the current. 00:38:29
Master plan is to take it from a conditional use now. 00:38:37
Which was kind of grandfathered. 00:38:42
When the, you know, the county became the city and it kind of pulled everything in. 00:38:45
To an rozone, do you mean PO zone? Sorry, APO zone? OK, thank you. And be able to maintain the office, but then develop the 00:38:50
property to help us pay for the space that we're occupying by adding some apartments? 00:38:58
Rental apartments. OK and. 00:39:06
Essentially that's the plan we had. 00:39:10
Neighborhood meeting. 00:39:14
And got some valuable feedback from our neighbors. 00:39:15
And agreed that some of the spacing and the sizing. 00:39:18
Obviously, why? We've got 50 people here. 00:39:27
Not in my backyard. 00:39:31
And. 00:39:33
And and we are, you know, we're going to be here. We want to be neighbors. We're going to be part of the community. We're not 00:39:35
simply looking to maximize space. 00:39:39
And density. 00:39:44
You know. 00:39:47
Make as much money as we can and then walk away. 00:39:48
Consistent. 00:39:53
We would like to have. 00:39:54
Not only a conditional use, but an actual permitted use under the new RO zone, PIO PIO zone. I'll say that wrong every time I. 00:39:56
And be. 00:40:06
Add. 00:40:08
You know rental housing as well. 00:40:10
So initially our. 00:40:13
You know, I think we jumped ahead a little bit by presenting a. 00:40:17
But at this point, I think what we would like to do. 00:40:21
Is. 00:40:24
Approved. Combine the lots and then come back with a plan once that's approved. 00:40:28
After input from the. 00:40:36
To put up what we would hope to be a compatible use, given the fact that this is now the corridor between the village and the 00:40:38
development. 00:40:43
At the old Cottonwood Mall. 00:40:49
OK, so that's. 00:40:51
Why we're here and the feedback we got from the city was we would like to implement that master plan. 00:40:54
You know, through that corridor. 00:41:01
And begin the trans. 00:41:05
You know what used to be AI mean? I remember when I was a Boy Scout, we would go out and shoot guns on 90th South and that was the 00:41:09
end of the city. 00:41:13
And I remember when you know the only. 00:41:18
On the corner of 45th was the Baskin and Robbins. 00:41:20
You know if you remember that far back, but you know, so I understand that you know. 00:41:24
The sensitivity that we. 00:41:29
To not come in through. 00:41:32
You know as many stories as we can and pack it as tightly as we can. 00:41:35
And based on the feedback we got from our initial meeting. 00:41:39
We're sensitive to that and we're certainly willing at the next phase. 00:41:43
To address that in our proposal for what we would like to do. 00:41:47
With the new P. 00:41:52
OK, but your proposal tonight is simply for a zone change request zone. 00:41:54
RPO. 00:42:04
RM to the. 00:42:04
Thank you so much. We appreciate you being here this evening. Thank you. 00:42:06
OK. 00:42:10
So I believe and Brad you'll make sure, I believe now we will open the public comment. 00:42:11
Public hearing. 00:42:16
OK. All right. We'll go ahead and open our public hearing now. You are welcome to take turns coming up. Remember, please state 00:42:17
your name and your address clearly for the for the recording and keep your comments to 3 minutes. 00:42:26
And please don't repeat points that have been made previously. 00:42:36
We appreciate having you here. 00:42:42
I represent a group. It's the group. The letter of the group comments. So can I be granted more than 3 minutes? You can have five. 00:42:49
So tell me your name and address please. My name is David Dean and I live at 2073 E Murray Holiday Rd. 00:42:58
I and my wife are the owners of a duplex property contiguous to the east of the subject property, so we abut the property. 00:43:07
And we occupy. It's a duplex property. We occupy one side of the duplex as our primary residence. My daughter lives in the other 00:43:17
side of the duplex. 00:43:21
We have owned and occupied the duplex for 31 years. 00:43:27
So we're long time res. 00:43:32
I represent a group of 57 signers. There were 16 added today, in addition to those showing in your in the letter copy you should 00:43:35
have received from Kerry. 00:43:40
That we sub. 00:43:46
So there are 57 signers of these of that letter that represents the comments of all of us. 00:43:48
The. 00:43:57
Subject Property is in the city's General Plan district that includes the area known as the Holiday Half Mile. 00:43:58
That area along Murray Holiday Rd. Between the Holiday Hills redevelopment area on the old Cottonwood Mall property. 00:44:07
And the holiday? 00:44:15
Now I'm quoting from the General Plan. 00:44:18
It says future development of this area should be guided by a small area master plan yet to be developed. 00:44:22
That's from page 18 of the General. 00:44:32
And no such small area master plan for this area has been created yet. 00:44:36
The Holiday Half Mile area represents a significant link between Holiday Village and Holiday Hills. 00:44:42
There are major issues to be addressed prior to any. 00:44:49
In that area. 00:44:54
Including building heights relative to contiguous single family subdivisions. 00:44:56
Building styles and materials. 00:45:01
And the widening and improvement of Murray Holiday Rd. which is we understand. 00:45:04
Will likely include special design features. 00:45:10
Because of these and other issues related to developing a cohesive. 00:45:14
Functional. 00:45:19
And aesthetically appealing holiday half mile area. 00:45:21
We contend that a small area master plan not only. 00:45:25
To use the general plan language, but must be created for the area. 00:45:30
And asked that Mister Helston's zone change application be tabled. 00:45:35
Until such a plan has been completed. 00:45:40
Mr. Helston's application is for zone change to P. 00:45:45
Professional office and the city code for that zone. 00:45:49
As follows Quote developments in the PO zone are intended to be compatible with abutting residential uses. 00:45:53
And then end a quote and then quote again in evaluating any rezone application for this zone. 00:46:02
Preference shall be given to those properties which will enhance property values and contribute to the economic sustainability of 00:46:08
the city. 00:46:13
In our neighborhood meeting with Mr. Helston held on November 22nd at his office, he showed us drawings of his proposed 00:46:20
development. 00:46:24
Which he claims is consistent with what's currently allowed in the PO zone. 00:46:28
It shows buildings of 40 feet high, three story buildings within 30 feet of the contiguous subdivision property line. 00:46:33
And that subdivision includes predominantly single level houses. 00:46:44
The stark contrast of a 40 foot building against those existing houses is shocking. 00:46:49
I've distributed here among the public and included with that letter that I sent to you. 00:46:56
Virtual overlays that were. 00:47:02
So that you can understand what that means. And I realize that tonight we're not discussing a site plan. 00:47:06
But Mr. Helston has already shown us what he originally proposed, and I recognize his right to change that, and of what he's 00:47:14
according to what he said here. 00:47:19
But the fact is that it serves as an example. 00:47:26
If it's consistent with the PO zone as it's currently written. 00:47:31
It serves as a concrete example of what could happen on that property. 00:47:35
Mr. Helston's plan also. 00:47:41
Not only egress on Murray Holiday Rd. which is expected as as exists now. 00:47:43
But one on the Sycamore Dr. subdivision St. on the West side of the property. 00:47:50
Since his plan shows 24 parking spaces. 00:47:55
There's the likelihood of a significant traffic impact on that existing subdivision, St. 00:48:00
From this develop. 00:48:07
Neither the impact of 40 foot buildings and greatly increased traffic spilling onto a subdivision St. would, in the words of the 00:48:09
city code quote, be compatible with a budding residential uses. 00:48:15
Nor quote enhanced property values. 00:48:22
Again. 00:48:27
The existing development along that holiday proposed holiday half mile area. 00:48:29
Which includes my property and Mr. Helston. 00:48:36
There isn't a. 00:48:40
40 foot three story building existing in that corridor except the new building under construction. 00:48:42
On the old car wash property across from Sharon's Cafe. 00:48:49
And that development is in the HV, the Holiday Village zone, which is an entirely different zone from what we're talking about 00:48:56
here. 00:49:01
And in fact, the newest building that's been constructed near this property is the Village Dental Building across the street on 00:49:07
the South side of Murray Holiday Rd. east of the Beaumont intersection. 00:49:13
That building is only 26 feet high and then again is the most recent construction. 00:49:19
In that holiday half mile. 00:49:25
There are no other buildings along there that are office. Use that. 00:49:27
Are 40 feet anything near 40 feet? So again, it's incompatible with what's already there. 00:49:33
So in summary, just state again that. 00:49:40
Mr. Helston, zone change application should be tabled until an appropriate small area master plan for the holiday half mile. 00:49:45
Be completed. Thank you for your time. 00:49:54
Thank you, Mr. Dean. We appreciate your comments today. 00:49:56
Anyone who would like to speak that did not sign or is not represented by Mr. Dean for signing his letter. 00:50:05
My name is John Greaves. I live at 4625 Sycamore. 00:50:17
I did sign Mr. Dean's letter, although I submitted my own statement and indicated to Miss Marsh that I summarized those. 00:50:22
So please don't change the zoning. 00:50:30
And I was here early for the meeting. 00:50:33
Mr. Christopherson, Mr. Tierlink, your notice and opportunity to be heard should be expanded way beyond 500 feet or whatever. 00:50:37
A zoning change will not enhance the property value as you stated in your pre meeting under section 13.44 point 01. 00:50:48
It will adversely affect property on Murray Holiday Rd. Delmont Ave. and Sycamore Dr. and other places, but specifically the 00:50:59
backyard back fence neighbor it will deprive. 00:51:05
Those owners of their property rights of light, Air View and privacy. 00:51:11
And that is, that's an ancestral home. There are four or five generations. 00:51:17
Family that have lived in that same home. 00:51:22
I'd recommend a guiding principle after Mr. Dean. 00:51:26
Explained many of the rules and regulations. 00:51:31
A guiding principle of our Republic comes from our founding document, which is a combination. 00:51:35
Of John Locke's unalienable right to life, liberty, and private property. 00:51:41
And Cesare Baccaria's teaching that laws and ordinances should achieve the greatest happiness for the largest number of people. 00:51:48
Here, if you change this zoning, you can. I don't know anybody here who's happy, but I added up 16 and 57. That's 73 people were 00:51:59
not happy with this proposed zoning change. 00:52:05
So it will only make one group happy. That's Mr. Helston and his cohorts. And so in closing, I just have a question, maybe Mr. 00:52:13
Helston can. 00:52:18
Addressed this when he. 00:52:24
I believe these two properties. 00:52:26
Our owners are 2051 Holiday LLC, a Florida domestic limited liability company and 2061 Holiday LLC, also a Florida. 00:52:30
Domestic limited liability company. 00:52:43
Address 312 Minorca Ave. Coral Gables, FL. 00:52:47
And I believe contacts are Bradley Helston, Leon Patricios and Joseph Izumano. And if he could comment on who are the actual 00:52:52
owners, the human beings that own those LLC's. And those are my comments. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Graves. 00:53:00
My name is Greg Stone. I'm at 1960 E Crest Hill Drive. 00:53:19
I'm somewhat new to the neighborhood, relatively new to the state of Utah. I don't know anything about building code I. 00:53:23
Don't know the lingo or what ordinances we're debating. I can just say I moved to holiday. Part of the appeal when we were 00:53:30
shopping for houses is because it was a relatively quiet residential area. We've got kids and that was appealing to us. From what 00:53:37
I understand and what I see, this building would significantly change at least that feel or vibe in this specific area. 00:53:44
I did. You know, I've walked past here numerous times just on walks, and I see a law firm. 00:53:53
Down the road a little bit West. 00:53:58
On the South side of the street, you can't even you can barely tell it's a law firm. It looks like a house. I'm not against 00:54:01
progress, but it would be nice if something blended into the neighborhood. 00:54:06
And wasn't looking like it did actually maximize use because it looks like an eyesore to me and increasing traffic would be a 00:54:11
concern for my kids as well. 00:54:15
Thank you very much. 00:54:21
Hello, I'm Alan Cybrant, 4636 Sycamore Dr. And I'd just like to make a comment that just recently this last summer, you guys have 00:54:28
repaved our neighborhood area there, took out the speed bumps. Now this is increased traffic. 00:54:35
With speeders coming down. 00:54:43
Our street with stuff and I feel that if you were to. 00:54:45
Approved this and. 00:54:50
This there it's. 00:54:52
Create more traffic coming through our nice quiet neighborhood. I don't think we need anything on the Northside of Murray holiday 00:54:54
and I'm looking at what we're looking here. 00:54:58
.30 and one nine and he's talking about a 40 story building, single homes, 24 parking. 00:55:03
I don't think that's a lot of space for that much building that they want to put in there, so I'm against this song and I'd like 00:55:10
to see it. 00:55:14
Stopped. Thank you. Thank you. 00:55:18
Hi Mike Stone, we're 2050 Delmont Drive and we're directly, we would be directly behind this building. 00:55:32
And we would lose. 00:55:40
Sunlight. Our backyard would be over, you know, they'd be looking into our backyard and we just, we feel like we'd lose value to 00:55:43
our property. 00:55:48
And we just don't think it would work for us. It would really inhibit what we try and do in our home and it would block a lot of 00:55:53
the fun that we try to have. So we're opposed to this. 00:55:58
And just wanted to share with that. 00:56:04
Thank you. Thank you. 00:56:07
My name is Richard Baird. I live at 1865 Sycamore Lane. 00:56:18
I'm opposed to this mostly because as I see development. 00:56:24
Is the managing of traffic and. 00:56:28
I do not know how this small parcel. 00:56:32
Can park 24 cars. 00:56:36
Seems almost impossible to me. And then to egress out on Sycamore Dr. 00:56:38
Totally impractical. 00:56:44
As was mentioned, I lived down at the bottom of Sycamore Lane. 00:56:46
And we already have a tremendous traffic. 00:56:51
Bottleneck now coming around that corner. 00:56:54
And. 00:56:57
The old Cottonwood. 00:56:59
What people do is they do not stop at the light. 00:57:01
They come up Sycamore Lane. 00:57:05
I just can't see adding more people and more cars to that little. 00:57:09
Neighborhood area where we now? 00:57:16
A tremendous amount of young families just right in. 00:57:19
Location. 00:57:23
So I'm totally opposed to that, I think. 00:57:24
Development. 00:57:29
The client that's proposing this has a small office building where we very rarely see any traffic there. 00:57:31
I would say that would be fine. I think we would all agree with that. But when you introduce that amount of stories. 00:57:39
And that. 00:57:46
And especially if he's adding residential. 00:57:48
No. 00:57:51
Can only have. 00:57:53
Car. 00:57:55
Everybody that has an apartment has a minimum of two cars and if there's families, three room apartment or something. 00:57:56
There's just no way they will be parking on the street. 00:58:04
Down Sycamore Dr. And I think it's. 00:58:07
A Daydream to think that that can be housed there. So my opinion is that. 00:58:11
As Dave Dean mentioned to let's deal with a master plan. 00:58:17
And do something that will look nice in that hole. 00:58:22
Help our neighborhood to maintain our. 00:58:26
Thank you very much. 00:58:29
My name is Kristen Hunter and I live at 4666 S Sycamore Dr. 00:58:36
One, the first thing I want to point out is just. 00:58:43
I am opposed to this project. 00:58:46
The first thing I want to point out is just. 00:58:49
Even mentioned in this meeting, this is just a rezone application. 00:58:52
But with the approval of the. 00:58:56
Would. 00:58:59
The zoning laws that are already in place. 00:59:01
Which after talking to Carrie, she said, and I quote it's almost impossible to change zoning laws. 00:59:04
So we know that with this, that's why we're here. That's why I'm here tonight. 00:59:11
Is because by this rezone. See. 00:59:17
Appro. 00:59:20
Move forward. 00:59:21
We're now looking at the holiday city zoning laws, which are what we are opposed to. 00:59:24
The building height. 00:59:30
The density, the the parking restrictions, all of those laws. 00:59:31
So although this is just a rezone meeting, I think it has. 00:59:36
Utmost importance as to the future of what this project would bring and that's what. 00:59:40
I'm that's why I'm here opposing this as well tonight not just the read about I I'm I'm sure I would be at the redevelopment 00:59:46
meeting as well opposing it. 00:59:50
But I also know that once we get to that point. 00:59:54
We're dealing with the zoning laws that are already in place that are impossible to change. 00:59:57
So. 01:00:01
The other thing I want to point out is living. I live on Sycamore Dr. 01:00:03
And I believe Brad. 01:00:07
There be proposed exit on Sycamore Dr. 01:00:09
Given the choice to turn left. 01:00:13
Heading towards Marie Holiday Road or? 01:00:17
Down Sycamore Dr. 01:00:20
No traffic to the right. 01:00:23
Very hard to turn onto Murray Holiday Rd. if you go left. 01:00:25
I think a high percentage of people exiting this proposed project would turn right down. Sycamore Dr. 01:00:30
And that is through the residential neighborhood. It's a very wide St. people speed because it's wide. There are no sidewalks for 01:00:37
safety. It is the safe walking route. 01:00:43
St. Dedicated for the state of Utah for the students because Olympus Junior High is 2 streets East. 01:00:49
It's frequented by students at all times of day. 01:00:57
But at the same times, the traffic would be coming and out of this project in the mornings and the evenings. 01:01:02
Coming and going and that's when the students would be there. 01:01:09
So I I think that. 01:01:13
We need to keep in mind that. 01:01:16
And Sycamore Yeah, Sycamore Dr. already has traffic. It's already hard to turn from Sycamore Dr. N onto Murray Holiday Rd. 01:01:18
There is a. 01:01:27
If you're facing north on Sycamore Dr. and Murray Holiday Rd. is here perpendicular. 01:01:28
The light to the left, which is about, I want to say 2530. 01:01:34
East. 01:01:40
There is a slight it's slightly obscured the traffic coming down. 01:01:42
So that's something to be aware of as well. I don't know if the city engineers here or if he's what traffic traffic studies he's 01:01:48
done there, but that's what I wanted to say. Thank you. 01:01:53
Thank you very much. Please no applause. 01:01:59
I'm going to remind you that this we're not going to applaud at this meeting. Thank you very much. Please. 01:02:06
Allen Gibson, 2008 Zero E Delmont. So I'm about two houses. 01:02:15
East. 01:02:21
Of the backyards of those properties. 01:02:22
So I have a few comments and some past history of the 2051 Corner property. This property was zoned residential, as was all of 01:02:25
holiday Murray Holiday Rd. There for a while, but that one there was residential at one time and with residential. 01:02:33
You know the neighborhood input conditional use was changed to allow allow an office on Murray Holiday Rd. With a Max of two 01:02:41
parking spaces and keep the residential access to the residential neighborhood on Sycamore. 01:02:48
That was the Wayne Jansen property. 01:02:55
Back before holiday even came. 01:02:58
And the zone changed, but with conditional use. So it looks and appears as a resident residence on, you know, on Sycamore. 01:03:01
And no, no engineering was needed for this change, the sewing type change or anything like that. No architectural stuff. And none 01:03:09
of that was needed. It was just he wanted approval to change, put an office in his front front of that or the site, I guess of his 01:03:14
house. 01:03:19
And that's what. 01:03:25
And anyway, with the change from Salt Lake County to Holiday City, the conditional use was done away at some point without any any 01:03:28
neighborhood residential. Public input on that property was just done away with, and the property was just a plain RM Zone and 01:03:33
part of that. 01:03:39
Back in Salt Lake County, was that it would stay. 01:03:45
Looking like a residential. 01:03:49
Type property, not a. 01:03:51
Whatever whatever RM could have done for the county or whatever RM can now do for this, the City of holiday. 01:03:53
So now it's just a plain RM zone with no conditional use attached anymore, and that was an unintended rezone of the property 01:04:03
without coming before you guys or anybody else once it switched from county. 01:04:09
To Holiday City. 01:04:16
And. 01:04:17
A quick note on the property or a par. 01:04:19
When that dentist office went into few streets or a few houses. 01:04:22
On Holly Blvd. or Holly Lane Excuse. 01:04:26
Which is parallel to Sycamore. 01:04:30
A lot of cars started parking there. They put up no parking signs there if you ever go walking through that neighborhood for 01:04:32
walking it. 01:04:36
Look for the No Parking Zones, which is now. 01:04:40
Well, site for water or something, whatever they're doing on that corner that used to be a residence there also at one time. 01:04:44
And so I'm against. 01:04:50
Big changes. I'd rather have the property look like residential, the property next to 2051. 01:04:52
Looks like a residential, even though it's a lawyer's office. 01:04:59
It fits in with the neighborhood. I'd like to keep it small like that without having to go through a lot of engineering or 01:05:02
architectural drawings or anything like that. Just keep it. 01:05:07
Low simple. Make it look like residential even though it may be on Mary Holiday Rd. 01:05:12
Thank you very much. 01:05:18
I'm Lorraine Gibson on 2080 Belmont Drive. 01:05:31
That was my husband Alan. He I will ask him to say a couple of things, which he didn't. So I'm going to. 01:05:36
We live behind the office buildings that are just east of that. 01:05:45
And there is. 01:05:51
Light pollution because of those buildings in our neighborhood, not just. 01:05:54
Our lot. 01:05:59
Through the block. 01:06:01
And so. 01:06:03
This will just add more light pollution into. 01:06:06
Houses. 01:06:09
That's what I wanted to. 01:06:11
My name is Deborah Hafer and I live at 1992 E Crest Hill Dr. also known as 4625 S. 01:06:17
I have been a residence for over 31 years in this neighborhood. 01:06:25
And with the Cottonwood Mall and the traffic on Highland Drive and 4800 S, that intersection on Highland Drive and 4800 S. 01:06:29
Is very, very busy. So those people waiting to turn left would drive a 4625 S, 4675 S and Sycamore Dr. comes speeding through our 01:06:37
neighborhoods, which is why speed bumps were installed on all three of those streets as well as Sycamore Dr. 01:06:45
To keep the people speeding through the neighborhood. 01:06:54
Right after those were put in on Sycamore Dr. a gentleman came flying up the street along Sycamore Lane to Sycamore Dr. 01:06:58
Hurt his car, lost some parts and got out and was angry and said why are these speed bumps here? You've taken my quick way home. 01:07:06
And the neighbor said that's why they're here, is because you guys come speeding through a residential neighborhood. 01:07:13
So my concern is this is a residential neighborhood. 01:07:18
The Holiday Hills isn't even finished or developed in all those cars. They're going to be on Highland Dr. 4800 S They're going to 01:07:22
come through our neighborhoods. Again, as was stated, it's Sycamore Dr. is a state. 01:07:29
Approved. 01:07:36
Children walking. 01:07:38
What is the traffic impact going to be And then you add this other development of this amount of. 01:07:39
Density, we're just creating more and more traffic our roads. Highland Drive is going to be narrowed down to the new plan to be 01:07:46
narrowed 40. There's not room for expansion to allow for all of this traffic that I think we need to address and I know that the 01:07:53
plans can be changed. Look at Sugar House, their master plan. 01:08:00
It's not working. They're already having growing pains with the parking. Do we want to become another sugar house? I don't think 01:08:07
so. We don't have the roads to allow for all this development. And I think that we need to look at the neighborhoods between 45th 01:08:14
and 48th and Highland Drive and 23rd of how many people are living in there. This is not an older neighborhood dying. This is 01:08:21
families moving in, remodeling, completely tearing down their houses. And we have a lot of children and I think that. 01:08:27
Exiting on Sycamore Dr. Nobody's gonna turn left. I've lived here for 31 years. It is difficult now to turn left on. 01:08:35
4800 S What's this gonna do here? Those people are not gonna go back on left if they can go on 4800. 01:08:42
40 Emory Holiday Rd. From the property. They don't need to come on Sycamore Lane and expect to go on Marie Holiday Rd. So I'm 01:08:48
against this as well as well as the zoning change we're locked in. 01:08:54
To what can happen in development so. 01:09:00
That's my concerns. Thank you. Thank you very much. 01:09:03
K Reed, 2070 Delmont Drive. 01:09:14
I'm against this. 01:09:20
As I sat in my home this morning today. 01:09:23
I noticed already. 01:09:26
Delmont's getting. 01:09:28
Already. 01:09:30
People don't. There are cars that come through there that don't live there. 01:09:32
And they're just passing through using Delmont already. 01:09:36
As a. 01:09:39
We can't have any more traffic than that. 01:09:41
And once once the mall gets up and going. 01:09:44
What is that going to add? 01:09:47
We can't have extra traffic here. 01:09:49
I'm against this. 01:09:52
Thank you. Thank you very much. 01:09:54
Thank you for having this planning meeting. Appreciate all the work you do. My name is Jack Solomon. I live at 2051 E Delmont 01:10:00
Drive. 01:10:05
I am an advocate. 01:10:12
For dogs and kids. 01:10:14
And I'll be very brief that I do a lot of gardening and in my front yard many times. 01:10:18
And there are children traveling. There are no sidewalks in our neighborhood. You're aware of that? 01:10:24
It's very dangerous. People have to. 01:10:32
On the. 01:10:36
So I'm advocating for children. 01:10:38
And dogs. 01:10:42
Dogs will probably get more of the attention, I bet you. 01:10:45
But that's my comments that we need more studies on sidewalks, more studies on signage. 01:10:50
And more traffic studies. Something they need to take those little rubber hoses out and look at the number of cars that travel on 01:10:58
these roads. 01:11:04
If we're going to follow the master plan of turning Murray Holiday Rd. Into a massive. 01:11:10
Residential and business area. Thank you very much. 01:11:19
Anyone else for public comment this evening? 01:11:30
All right, Brad. I believe we will close the public hearing at this point and then invite Mr. 01:11:38
OK. All right. We'll go ahead and close the public comment. 01:11:46
And would you like to come up and address any of? 01:11:48
Anything you wish to to comment on? 01:11:53
Yeah, I guess. 01:11:57
Flip to my notes here. 01:12:00
Umm. 01:12:02
I understand the concerns. 01:12:05
You know, I have children and dogs. 01:12:07
And I live on the street with no sidewalks. 01:12:11
So I do understand. 01:12:14
And I think. 01:12:16
You know we have options as property owners. 01:12:18
To say well, if we live in the current room. 01:12:23
Then maybe we don't stay. 01:12:27
And be neighbors and we sell it to somebody who's going to put up. 01:12:30
As much as they can on a residential. 01:12:34
Under the current zoning and we walk away. 01:12:37
Or we can. 01:12:40
Allow the zoning change. 01:12:42
That the master plan contemplates and then let us address a plan. 01:12:45
With the neighbors. 01:12:52
To say this is what we'd like to do. 01:12:53
Our initial plan was what can we do? 01:12:57
Under the. 01:13:01
But not necessarily what after comment from our neigh. 01:13:02
Because we want to be neighbors, what we can do? 01:13:07
And what we will do are completely different things. We're not, you know, we. So let me address the ownership. 01:13:12
I am an owner of both properties. I have partners, law partners who are based in Miami. 01:13:21
So the Minorca address and the Florida. 01:13:30
Company that owns the property is me and my two partners Leon Patricius and Josempano. 01:13:35
So it's not like we're some. 01:13:42
Company that's, you know, swooping in to change the world here. 01:13:46
Umm. 01:13:50
So I believe that we can change the. 01:13:51
Allow our office use to be an approved use as opposed to a conditional use. 01:13:56
And then allow us to work with the neighbors to come up with a plan. 01:14:02
To say we would like an office, My partners in Miami would love to have an apartment. 01:14:07
When they come to. 01:14:13
So they could use it to go skiing or be here. 01:14:15
I would like to retire someday and may end up living upstairs and being part of the neighborhood. 01:14:18
So. 01:14:25
An opportunity at this point to do anything but say. 01:14:27
The current uses are conditional uses. For Office, we would like to have a permitted use in the office zone. 01:14:32
And then deal with the. 01:14:40
At the next. 01:14:43
So we're not the plan we proposed and throughout. 01:14:45
To the. 01:14:50
We receive valuable. 01:14:51
And if we were just developers who said we don't care what our neighbors say? 01:14:54
We're going to build what we can build. 01:14:59
But we're here, we're going to be part of the neighborhood. We're going to be part of the community. 01:15:01
And we're. 01:15:06
Going to build something that every time somebody walks by my office, they spit on the ground or throw their trash. 01:15:08
Or say, you know, why are you doing this to me in my neighborhood when we're part of the community and we want to be part of the 01:15:16
neighborhood? 01:15:20
So I'll leave it with that. 01:15:24
Thank you very much. We appreciate that, Mister Helston. 01:15:25
All right. So with the hearing closed at this point, the Planning Commission will go ahead and discuss. 01:15:29
Between ourselves. 01:15:36
First, Miss Marsh, did you have any comments you'd like to make? 01:15:39
No, just any questions that you have, you can also discuss with staff, OK. All right. 01:15:42
Thank you. 01:15:49
Any. 01:15:52
To start out with Angela, you look like you've got something. 01:15:54
That you're thinking about saying. 01:15:58
I just it it's it's clearly a you know. 01:16:03
This is an issue that's close to people's hearts, so that's just. 01:16:08
It's tricky to. 01:16:12
What should we do and cut to the heart of the issue? I think one thing that we talked about earlier in our work meeting that I 01:16:14
thought was very helpful, which I didn't know because I also don't have the city code memorized, was the differences between the 01:16:21
the RM and the PO zones. I don't know if you guys want to talk about this, but but my understanding is. 01:16:28
The room zone does allow for townhomes or condos. 01:16:36
So those theoretically could be built up to a height of 35 feet already in the in the zone right now, with the set back meaning 01:16:40
the space between. 01:16:45
The building and the property line. 01:16:50
20 feet. 01:16:53
Whereas the PO zone can build to 40 feet, but the set back is bigger. It's 30 feet. Is that? Did I get all those details correct? 01:16:55
So I just didn't understand that. So so it does feel like. 01:17:03
The. 01:17:07
You know, as I was reviewing this issue, it felt like the PO zone really changed the the, the tone of the neighborhood. But 01:17:08
already in the RM zone actually it it could be high density, it could be a very high building and it could be much closer. Is is 01:17:15
that my understanding is correct on that. Yes. So developing that PO zone we did look at. 01:17:21
Office uses that were adjacent to residential uses and how to offset the impacts of. 01:17:29
Buildings. 01:17:36
Next to residential uses, so in the PO zone you we did increase that set back from residential neighborhoods to 30 feet. There is 01:17:37
a 5 foot height increase but it is set back. 01:17:44
Another. 01:17:52
Being on there as well is a graduated height, so buildings have to be stepped back if they're within a specific area, and that's 01:17:55
all to reduce visual and light impact on surrounding properties. 01:18:01
Thank you. 01:18:11
Speak to, well, a couple of issues. The 1st is the general plan. 01:18:16
I I didn't help write the general plan, and I don't know if any of these folks did, but it is clear from the general plan. 01:18:23
That this is a an encourage use. 01:18:32
And that, but the purpose of the encouraged use is the part I'm struggling with and that is. 01:18:36
To enhance property values contribute to the economic sustainability of the city. 01:18:43
And typically that means. 01:18:47
More opportunity for office and no retail. That was specifically the decision that the council made. 01:18:50
Was number retail? 01:18:59
But the office use that's there, as I understand it, is permitted only because it was there prior to the general plan and the 01:19:02
current zoning and that I would have expected a plan. The plan can always. 01:19:08
There. 01:19:17
Made an argument for how we're upgrading the site and enhancing the property values and contributing the economic sustainability 01:19:18
with better offices or more offices, more professional offices, more kinds of offices, medical services for example, which is 01:19:24
always. This is typically the reason we grant. 01:19:30
These is because it allows the owners to diversify the kind of services, professional services, available to the members of the 01:19:37
community. 01:19:42
OK. 01:19:46
As I understand it. 01:19:48
One office building that's going to stay. 01:19:51
As an office building. As a lawyer's office and the other lot completely turn into an apartment complex. 01:19:55
Right. 01:20:03
The proposal or potential proposal would mix the use so it would have offices and apartments. 01:20:05
Right. And I and I realize it and I. 01:20:14
The purpose I think of us making and we're not going to make a decision today with a recommendation, but. 01:20:16
The criteria for the recommendation have to do with our belief that it will result in an upgrade of the building and a site and 01:20:24
will enhance property values and contribute to the economic sustainability. 01:20:30
Of the city, OK. If you add a bunch of residential that doesn't enhance the economics of the city, that's a negative to the city. 01:20:36
Businesses generate. 01:20:46
Positive property tax flow to the city. Residents are a negative tax flow to the city and that. 01:20:48
So I and and I would encourage the developer if you would like to come up or the owner and and and speak to this issue but. 01:20:57
How are we meeting the goal of this optional zone? It's not mandatory. It's one that is part of a plan that was never finished. 01:21:07
And that and. 01:21:18
So. 01:21:21
Our recommendation, in my mind ought to be based on the belief that something has been presented tonight. 01:21:23
That would tip. 01:21:30
To making this one of. 01:21:31
Of the the half mile developments and that. 01:21:35
So anyway, that's my kind of my thinking that I'm going through and that. And then I realized that we kind of put the owner in an 01:21:40
awkward position because he's not obligated to have any plan, he's just obligated to request and then but. 01:21:47
The ordinance implies that he has to be carry the burden of showing that we're going to enhance property values and contribute to 01:21:55
economic sustainability and it'll be an upgrade of the building and or the site. 01:22:02
So far I haven't heard that. 01:22:10
On. 01:22:12
Can I comment on that Commissioner Cunningham? So in the PO zone approved uses are office uses. Any residential use that the 01:22:13
applicant would like to pursue in the future would be a conditional use. So at that point the Planning Commission could evaluate 01:22:20
that balance of. 01:22:26
Are you balancing some office use with a proposed mixed-use development? 01:22:33
Yeah, I I I realize that I I think you know the way that the ordinance actually says is give preference to the properties where 01:22:41
these things. 01:22:45
Or Prism. I'm having a hard time finding them. 01:22:49
I think the zoning is OK. I mean you know that decision was made by the council years ago about shifting to appeal and that and so 01:22:54
I don't want to revisit that's not our job but and that but I for my. 01:23:02
What I've heard so far. 01:23:11
I'm not sure why this is a preference, a preference recommendation. 01:23:13
Would that be an appropriate? 01:23:19
To go with APO. 01:23:23
So the PO additional use right PO zone is a conditional mixed-use. 01:23:26
So the future development redevelopment would have to be a mixed-use so. 01:23:33
And I think there's maybe a lack of clarity about what's being proposed because we don't have that application, but the 01:23:39
application would need to be a mixed-use. 01:23:43
Long as. 01:23:47
The law practice on one property. 01:23:49
Could they not propose the entire other property be residential? 01:23:52
That's a mixed-use because they now combine the two properties into a single parcel. 01:23:57
At that point it would be 1 parcel with a mix of uses, yeah, that's what I mean. So they could. 01:24:03
An existing business. 01:24:12
And only add. 01:24:13
But at the same time, what we're discussing tonight is. 01:24:18
A rezone from room to PO for those two parcels. 01:24:23
At this point and and there is no other proposal before. 01:24:28
For a redevelop. 01:24:34
At this time, so to consider to consider what may be down the road which. 01:24:36
Could change at. 01:24:42
Is kind of like trying to predict the weather. 01:24:44
Absolutely. I'm just saying that the way the ordinance is written, it requires. 01:24:49
That we give preference to the ones that meet this criteria. 01:24:55
In my opinion, they don't. Therefore, I would recommend that we not give that recommendation as a fur preference and then. 01:25:00
I'm not. I'm not sure whether it was a good decision or bad decision by the owner. 01:25:08
To. 01:25:14
Have a whole plan out there, right? And that could where it was unnecessary, right? 01:25:16
But it's out there. I would say a couple of things, I think. What a comment that Mister Dean made. 01:25:21
Where And you had brought this up earlier? 01:25:31
If there had been a small area master plan put out initially. 01:25:37
Where we could evaluate these projects as they came in against a small area master plan. 01:25:42
Boy, that should would sure make things a lot clearer. 01:25:51
Unfortunately, we don't have that sort of a road map. 01:25:57
So we're going to have to take these projects kind of piece. 01:26:01
And then? 01:26:07
We're going to have to. 01:26:08
Zoning changes and so forth as they come. 01:26:10
I just. I don't know. I just have a philosophical issue with. 01:26:16
I understand that people don't like change. 01:26:23
But I also look at this property and I look at some of the comments made about traffic and parking and. 01:26:27
So forth. 01:26:34
And I think it's unfortunate that what. 01:26:37
I understand we're only talking about a zoning change, but we're looking at a zoning change. 01:26:41
With some pretty serious implications. 01:26:46
And. 01:26:50
I don't know. 01:26:53
According to staff report, in 2018, the City Council considered the. 01:26:59
Holiday Mile or half? 01:27:05
And all these were part of that consideration and that vote. 01:27:08
Yes, and maybe Mr. Turling can speak to that process of what that evaluation looked like. But they did look at all properties that 01:27:13
were zoned as RM and being used as professional offices, the properties that are adjacent to residential uses. That's why the code 01:27:22
was written for the PO zone to have a further set back. All these uses have existed as professional offices. 01:27:30
Looking at the future redevelopment, those were the standards that were set in the professional office zone in consideration of 01:27:40
all of those things. 01:27:44
A public hearing was held at that point. Building height was evaluated at that point in time, and that's what it was set at for 01:27:48
the professional office zone. 01:27:52
So we understand. 01:27:57
Someone. 01:28:00
Mr. Helston could have bought this, or could have. 01:28:03
App. 01:28:06
To raise both buildings on the property and. 01:28:07
Condos. 01:28:13
And those condos could. 01:28:15
Occupied a footprint on the property that would have had a 20 foot set back and. 01:28:18
35 feet high, correct. 01:28:27
Yes, that's what he can do currently. He could do that currently without any zoning change, which would not then that would have. 01:28:29
That would not have address. 01:28:38
Could possibly not have addressed any of the residents issues relative to traffic and. 01:28:40
Parking and. 01:28:48
Um. 01:28:50
View. 01:28:51
Mitigation and light and so forth, correct? Right. That would just be a building permit. 01:28:53
Brian, So I think there's some concern here that we're trying to rewrite how we want this to proceed. I think the woman with the 01:29:01
baby was. 01:29:06
Probably heading the direction that maybe the City Council needs to be aware of is. 01:29:11
Do our codes adequately address this? Because when you rezone something, there is a built-in set back those type of things to 01:29:16
handle or to least do the best possible way of mitigating the impacts now. 01:29:24
Granted, looking at this property, a single story building, anything that's taller than that is going to be an impact. And that's 01:29:32
the difficulty with this one, because it is. 01:29:37
You know, in my eyes it's a beautiful little property, but. 01:29:43
You know, I don't own the property. I don't really get to say much about it, but. 01:29:46
Did we just make a recommendation to the Council and let them have the discussion of whether they want to revise the? 01:29:54
The zone to be a little bit more receptive to this. 01:30:01
Because I think we want to change how the application is being proposed. 01:30:04
But I think we need to stay with what we have and what the general plan has suggested. 01:30:09
I think, Paul, you were kind of leading that direction. 01:30:15
To me, I think that's where we that's what the Planning Commission is. 01:30:19
Asked to do at this point, yeah, our purview is simply to consider. 01:30:22
This rezone application. 01:30:29
And either forward a favorable or an unfavorable recommendation to the City Council for the the residents that are here. Planning 01:30:32
Commission tonight will make some sort of recommendation to the City Council. 01:30:39
This item will then appear on a City Council agenda in the next. 01:30:47
Meeting or two, I can't say exactly what the date is because I don't know. 01:30:53
And and it is the City Council who will ultimately make the. 01:30:57
So we hope your passion will carry you forward to discuss to the City Council and to to share your comments. 01:31:02
At that time as well, regardless of what our decision is this evening, that's just an informational. 01:31:09
Information for you, Angela. We haven't heard much from you. 01:31:18
I was thinking about this question that Paul. 01:31:24
Commissioner Cunningham. 01:31:27
Had about. 01:31:30
Economic What is it? Enhancing property values and economic sustainability. Certainly the idea of, you know, added office space 01:31:32
and businesses, especially smaller businesses that would fit in something like this. 01:31:37
Is probably attractive to holiday, I think my. 01:31:45
One thought that I'm trying to tease out is there's certainly an impact on the houses right next to the a building that feels like 01:31:50
it's a little bit out of character. It's, you know, it's taller than it used to be there or what, it's taller than what's back 01:31:55
into the residential neighborhoods. 01:32:00
But also there's this larger picture of we've got the holiday village, we've got the royal holiday hills being developed and and I 01:32:06
think if there's this sense that that people can live and walk. 01:32:12
To places that where they can eat or you know walk to their office, walk to their doctor, hopefully. You don't have to walk to 01:32:20
your lawyer that often. I really, you know, that's not a great situation. But the the sense that that that there's this entire 01:32:26
strip where actually it's dense enough that you could theoretically walk to a grocery store, walk to. 01:32:31
Lots of the things that you need in your daily life. I think in the long run, and this is tricky, but but I do think that this 01:32:38
sense of walkability. 01:32:43
That this could enhance, you know, over years. 01:32:48
Would be attractive to a lot of people. I mean that that's a really tricky thing to say let's build it now in the hopes that, you 01:32:52
know, it's very walkable in 10 years. But but I think that the general, the general plan is certainly trying to say this is a 01:32:59
really important corridor and if we can make it so that people don't have to drive as much because there are more. 01:33:07
Things within a walkable distance, I think in a long. 01:33:14
To me, that does look like enhanced property values. 01:33:18
And and you know, livability, increased livability. 01:33:23
But it's kind of in this uncomfortable place right now, where? 01:33:26
Neither quite walkable nor quite as. 01:33:30
Spaced out as people want. You know it's in either place right now. 01:33:33
Well, and and Kerry, maybe you can address this just to Angela's point of walkability, the PO zone would allow the building to be 01:33:39
built closer to the street. Can you address the specifics of that? 01:33:47
Yes. So setbacks in the appeal zone were the buildings, because they're set further back from a residential zone they are designed 01:33:56
to be. 01:33:59
They can be built closer to the street. 01:34:04
Street. Having buildings closer to a street is a more walkable environment, Pedestrian friendly. The same kind of concept was in 01:34:08
the Holiday Village. Those ones are brought all the way to the street. 01:34:13
So there is still landscaping set back there in the front. 01:34:21
I think the. 01:34:25
Walkable areas are also they are property enhancing. There's been multiple studies and planning about walkable areas really 01:34:27
enhancing property values in the surrounding neighborhoods. 01:34:32
And economic sustainability as well. You're enhancing your office uses. So right now the law office has to be there in the future 01:34:40
if that's zoned as. 01:34:44
Other offices have the potential to occupy space there in that in any building that's constructed or in an existing building. 01:34:49
Thank you. Carrie. Is there any, are there any rules relative to how much? 01:34:58
Office space versus how much residential space has to occupy the building. Is there a ratio or there's not? 01:35:06
OK. 01:35:17
Brian, any further thoughts? One other thought I do think on that, on that PO, so you can't have residential unless there's 01:35:18
office. 01:35:22
Right, so you have to begin with an office use first before you can get to the conditional residential. 01:35:27
Thanks. 01:35:33
Thank you. 01:35:34
Angela, do you have anything? 01:35:37
More. 01:35:39
No, no, Jill. 01:35:40
I don't think so. 01:35:42
Paul. 01:35:44
All right, you. 01:35:46
My understanding is that when the City Council created the PO zone. 01:35:51
That they wanted to encourage property owners. 01:35:56
Who were in a legal non conforming situation with tenants or themselves as the occupiers. 01:36:02
To eventually move to APO zone so that they would be in a more. 01:36:11
Appropriate a more correct zone. 01:36:15
For their use and. 01:36:19
Offices on this property. 01:36:24
You can certainly a case can be made that a PO zone rezone would be reasonable. 01:36:28
And. 01:36:35
And so I can see how it would work. 01:36:39
To go ahead and move in that direction. 01:36:44
Considering that we don't have a small master plan. 01:36:48
To guide any farther. 01:36:51
All right. Do we have anyone on the Council or on the Commission, excuse me, who is willing to? 01:36:55
Make a motion at this time for a recommendation. 01:37:01
To the City Council who have ultimate decision making. 01:37:04
Authority in this circumstance. 01:37:08
I'll be happy to make your motion to get this started. 01:37:20
So I'll make a motion that the Planning Commission. 01:37:25
Not recommend this rezone. 01:37:30
With the. 01:37:34
Proposed findings. 01:37:36
That the reason itself is consistent with the general master plan. 01:37:38
For either professional office, commercial or mixed-use development or other similar areas such as the Highland Dr. Small Area 01:37:45
Master Plan area. 01:37:49
However. 01:37:54
I believe that the other two findings are that there is insufficient evidence that it will result in the upgrade of the building 01:37:57
and the site. 01:38:01
And that it will not necessarily enhance property values and contribute to the economic sustain sustainability of the city. 01:38:06
Do we have a second for this motion? 01:38:18
He moved that we not you need to talk in the. 01:38:21
Do I understand that your motion is that we not recommend the rezone? I'll second that clarify. So it would be forwarding it to 01:38:26
the council of the negative recommendation. 01:38:32
Thank you. So we have a motion by Commissioner Cunningham, a second by Commissioner Font, So let's go ahead and take a vote. 01:38:37
Commissioner Burnt. 01:38:41
So you you're I'm you're not supporting the. You do not support the motion. OK. Thank you, Commissioner Gong. 01:38:47
If I vote no, that means I think it should be recommended. 01:38:57
Correct. 01:39:01
OK, Commissioner. 01:39:04
Yes. 01:39:07
Commissioner Cunningham. 01:39:08
And chair votes. 01:39:10
So that vote fails. So you have to have. 01:39:13
So that that did not pass. So you currently stand with no recommended without a recommendation. We have zero recommendation at 01:39:17
this point. It would be a neutral recommendation at this point. OK, because is that something to pass? It's so. So in order for it 01:39:23
to pass and I want to make sure that the audience understands this, we have a 7 member Commission. 01:39:29
So in order for any vote to pass the seven member Commission when it is less than seven, you have to get 4 votes one way or 01:39:35
another to move it forward with for that motion to have passed so that motion failed. You can have a couple of options. You can. 01:39:42
You can propose a new motion. 01:39:50
Or any member of the Planning Commission could propose a new motion. Or you can leave it as is and it would basically go to the 01:39:52
Council with a neutral recommendation. 01:39:56
So do we have anyone who would like to make a different motion, or do we want to simply send this to the community or to the City 01:40:03
Council with a neutral recommendation? 01:40:08
If we forward a neutral recommendation, do they get a summary of the discussion or I mean, I'm I'm sure they have the information 01:40:16
we have. Yes, they will. They will have the minutes of the meeting. 01:40:21
They will have a staff report on what? 01:40:27
Then. 01:40:31
Mr. Chair Link, in fact, it may be quite possible that they. 01:40:32
Request a clarification on some specific items while they're reviewing. 01:40:36
This. 01:40:41
Motion. 01:40:42
So it's possibly want to come back to you clarify something and. 01:40:43
Bring it back and it's happened before. Let's be wary of that, OK, Well, and we've only got 5 members here as opposed to seven, so 01:40:48
that might it could be different with with a different number of us here. 01:40:54
The council would get a, you know, a tally of the vote, but because it wasn't successful with at least four votes, we would know 01:41:03
that it was a three, two vote. 01:41:07
They would have that information, but it wouldn't be a successful motion. OK, All right. So do we need a motion? Do we need a 01:41:12
motion to That's that's to Mr. Christopherson, do we need a motion or at this point, can we simply say we'd like to use forward a 01:41:17
neutral? 01:41:22
Recommendation, so that could be another vote. 01:41:28
Rather than you could have a motion to send a neutral recommendation. All right, Do we have a commissioner who's prepared to make 01:41:31
that motion? I would do that. I I would make a motion that we forward a neutral recommendation to City Council regarding this 01:41:36
issue. 01:41:41
Thank you a second. 01:41:47
Is Commissioner Baron I? 01:41:49
Thank you. All right, we'll have a vote, Commissioner. 01:41:52
Yes. 01:41:56
Commissioner Gong Yes. Commissioner Font, Yes, Commissioner Cunningham. 01:41:57
OK. All right. And chair votes. Aye. So with successful motion with four one we meet that we meet the benchmark for neutrality. So 01:42:03
thank you. All right. We appreciate all of the citizens that are here this evening. Thank you for making your voices heard, 01:42:11
whether it was through e-mail comment or through public comment. And we appreciate you participating and this issue will go to the 01:42:19
City Council to be considered. 01:42:26
Um. 01:42:35
At a upcoming meeting, check the city website for agendas going forward. 01:42:35
Thank you for coming and again, take your comments down the hallway as you as you head out. Thank you. 01:42:42
Our next? 01:42:51
A text amendment, I believe. 01:42:54
Did you want? 01:42:58
We order the agenda. 01:42:59
Well, I I was only asking for that on the thought that there may be people on the other two issues. I don't think there's going to 01:43:01
be any people on any issues. 01:43:05
So if we can just March through it, I think we're sitting clear at this point. 01:43:10
OK. 01:43:15
All right. 01:43:18
At least we didn't make him wait till the end. 01:43:20
So. 01:43:23
3 for you There are two for you this evening. 01:43:25
Is a follow up with our discussion with the Planning Commission on a text amendment required for state compliance for statutory 01:43:29
obligation on procedure of approving subdivisions. 01:43:34
The staff has been able to put together. 01:43:40
A fairly substantial text amendment for you in your packet. 01:43:43
Is M3 essentially documents? 01:43:48
One, the first one is a very red lined. 01:43:52
Section of code. 01:43:56
It was very hard to read. There's a lot of blood. 01:43:57
That section is your procedurals and your submissions. 01:44:01
Staff is proposing to amend that dramatically, just to just to clean it up. 01:44:06
Those specific sections have to do with this idea of a three-step approval process, which. 01:44:10
Covers all of the Planning Commission's review and procedure for everything from site plans all the way to subdivisions. 01:44:16
So with the subdivision amendment comes with these amendments for a site plan. So that's what that first section is, it's it's 01:44:23
cleaning up the site plan process to be congruent with the subdivision of review and approval process. 01:44:29
That's your second document. 01:44:36
The one that's pretty clean. 01:44:38
That is a complete rewrite. 01:44:40
Staff is proposing that as a complete rewrite for text amendment for procedural subdivision procedure and review process. 01:44:42
That will essentially replace the third document that's in your packet, which is what your subdivision regulations are currently. 01:44:49
So rather than just completely having all these strikes and rewrites. 01:44:58
It's more concise, it reads clearer. It's much. 01:45:02
Easier to understand. Plus it gives some very specific language that the state statute is requiring all municipalities to have. 01:45:08
One example is a review cycle. A review cycle has to be defined. 01:45:17
We didn't have that type of definition. It was difficult to find out where. 01:45:21
In sort of trying to insert or wedge it into your into your current ordinance. So the proposal from staff is to remand. 01:45:26
Redact. 01:45:34
The subdivision regulations, section 1310 and replace it. What's been what's in your packet? 01:45:35
That was a lot of work. Thank you for providing. 01:45:42
With the version without all of the markings because that was really, really difficult to look at. 01:45:46
OK, so this evening, what we need to do then? Do we need to have a hearing on this? OK, we'd like to open the public hearing on 01:45:52
this text amendment. Is there anyone who would like to speak to this? 01:45:58
We will now close the public hearing on this text. 01:46:05
And I gotta get it in while you can. OK, So commissioners, do we have any discussion, any questions for staff? 01:46:09
Yes, thank you. 01:46:19
OK, so. 01:46:22
As hard as I tried, I wish I had eyes like a chameleon, so I could be looking at one thing and looking at another at the same 01:46:24
time. 01:46:27
So if the city doesn't do anything at all with this, it's mandated through the legislature to change automatically, correct? 01:46:31
Or it's not quite that no. The mandate is update your code. 01:46:40
The mandate is update your code to comply with this new process that we've laid out. OK, well, I I appreciate the clarification. 01:46:46
I'm just we're doing what they're asking to correct. Is the language the same as what they have shown in the proposal? Because 01:46:52
that's what I was trying to find it. No, it's not. And John could speak to this. So there's some flexibility in the code, for 01:46:57
example. 01:47:02
The state. 01:47:08
Gives you an optional public hearing. 01:47:10
You can have. 01:47:13
But you don't have to have. 01:47:15
Holiday is opted to have one. This proposes to have a public hearing before the Planning Commission. 01:47:17
You don't have to. 01:47:23
But and I can speak to several other cities. 01:47:24
I don't know the city yet that is not opting to have a public hearing. 01:47:28
Makes sense. So that's just one example. So the legislature, thank you, excuse me, for cutting you off. The legislature is also 01:47:33
asking for a definition of timing, right, And that you were just saying that I. 01:47:39
So is the concept plan being considered to be just a staff? 01:47:46
And again, I apologize, I really tried to get through this and understand it all and I want to understand that. 01:47:52
We don't want to overtax staff with saying you can handle all our stuff for us but. 01:47:59
Well, I think that's the mandate his state. 01:48:04
You have a staff. 01:48:09
And especially designate them as a land use authority where applicable. 01:48:12
And in this specific situation. 01:48:16
Concept is no longer required. 01:48:19
You can. You can highly recommend it, but the concept review meeting is with staff. 01:48:21
And staff is just there to make sure that the application is complete. 01:48:27
And they're providing all the elements. 01:48:32
That is essentially the concept level and then your preliminary is everything up until. 01:48:34
Civil development plans. 01:48:42
Once it gets that highly engineering detailed level, then it goes back to the. 01:48:44
Land use authority, which is designated. 01:48:50
For a maximum of four review cycles back and forth. 01:48:53
So essentially what they're trying to do. 01:48:57
Essentially, try to speed up a process which is presumed to. 01:49:00
Thank you. I was going to say ours is pretty efficient. Absolutely. We're pretty good at it, but most, most municipalities have 01:49:07
been targeted as being slow. 01:49:11
So that's essentially what it is intending to do. 01:49:16
And the legislature obviously is just getting some predictability in this every process so that. 01:49:20
As they do their business right and not get held up, where they're being approached by is a home builders association, this is 01:49:26
saying. 01:49:29
Every municipality is different and their process is different. It's difficult to keep track of. 01:49:34
Some are quicker, some are slower, some are extremely slow, some are backed up. 01:49:38
The process needs. 01:49:42
You know, standardized throughout the entire state. OK, I wish I could legislate that my life be easy. 01:49:45
However, you can see in your in your packet there's a few sections that are highlighted. 01:49:53
Those are optional situations that you can make a recommendation on to the City Council to review. 01:49:57
One of them in there is our street lighting. 01:50:05
That was in green, I believe in green. 01:50:10
Those are elements that aren't necessarily a required situation. We don't have streetlights in a lot of our municipalities or 01:50:13
neighborhoods. 01:50:16
And that could be a policy going forward the the the City Council wants us to continue to look at. 01:50:21
So those are the highlighted in green elements. 01:50:27
And you've made a note in here about do we want to create an exception for subdivisions of one lot or duplex or townhomes? 01:50:33
And. 01:50:41
And I would weigh in favor of just having it because I think not having a public hearing causes as much. 01:50:44
Concerned. I think sometimes they just want to know what's going to happen. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I forgot to 01:50:53
address that. 01:50:56
Several years ago, the state statute was mentioned, a minor and a major subdivision process. 01:51:01
For minor subdivisions, for lot splits, no more than two. 01:51:07
The Land Use Authority remains with staff. It is available to be remained at staff. 01:51:12
Holiday has never gone that route. All subdivisions go to the planning. 01:51:17
And the Planning Commission is designated as the Land Use Authority for those approvals. 01:51:21
Same with public hearings. 01:51:25
Dealing with that in my mind back and forth, it's highly likely that I'm anticipating the City Council will prefer to have that 01:51:29
remain at the Planning Commission level. 01:51:33
With public hearings. 01:51:38
So. 01:51:41
Purpose of this meeting tonight Do we need to address these specific highlighted sections or can do you want a motion that is just 01:51:43
to whether we. 01:51:50
Are in. 01:51:57
Or don't approve this. What is? What is addressing for specifically you? You can take any approach you want on that, so it can be 01:51:58
if you want to go through these. 01:52:03
These green items and make individual recommendation or and we like these ones and we don't like these ones. You can do that if 01:52:07
you just want to say. 01:52:11
You know, we've reviewed it, We're comfortable with what the City Council says. Go ahead and pick and choose. 01:52:15
But you couldn't be that general. 01:52:20
And and John and Kerry would have. 01:52:23
The burden of explaining that to the Council. 01:52:26
If you just want to say that, you know, you could make a recommendation that the recommended changes the red lines we like the 01:52:31
green ones were reasonable. 01:52:36
But we didn't make a recommendation on the Greens. 01:52:41
OK. Does the Council make the policy decision on? 01:52:44
Yeah. And you could do that. So in particular, if you look at page 12, line 38. 01:52:47
This is new language that hasn't been in our ordinance prior, but it's always been kind of a sticky point. 01:52:54
With Planning Commission. 01:53:00
Subdivisions proposed to you, they need that little extra square footage to get them to X number of square feet. 01:53:02
And so there's this strange foot, or this weird angle, or. 01:53:10
Chunk that's unusable. 01:53:15
Um. 01:53:18
In past, it's kind of been seen in the public eye as it being a little gratuitous as a way to. 01:53:18
Interpret the code to say, well yeah, they meet the square footages, but that area can't possibly be used. 01:53:24
For anything other than. 01:53:30
Maybe where the wheelbarrows get stored? 01:53:32
You know that type of thing. This is a concept that sort of addresses that concern that's been that's popped up in the past. 01:53:35
Other elements that have been added in there are specific to holiday, have to deal with waterways, natural and man made. We have a 01:53:43
slew of them. 01:53:46
So we're. 01:53:51
A lot of those elements. So if it looks good the way it reads now, you can recommend it as is, or you can pine in on what you 01:53:52
believe is appropriate. 01:53:57
Does anyone have any particular strong feelings? I'm curious why the lights keep flickering on. 01:54:04
They're flashing lights. 01:54:11
That was kind of a squirrel, you know, squirrel moment, but. 01:54:14
She feels like we're wondering if I was missing the music that went along with the show or something, but I apologize. That was a 01:54:18
total wow diversion there. Any strong feelings or thoughts on this before we? 01:54:25
Have some questions because I feel like I you know, I'm. 01:54:32
Lacking context, so the general I think my general understanding is. 01:54:36
The legislature. 01:54:42
Has been, is becoming. 01:54:44
Fairly developer friendly. 01:54:47
And so a lot of things are made to streamline things or make things clear. I mean, I think that's. 01:54:49
May be OK, but but I'm just trying to understand the broader implications. So I mean holiday is just a small part of the valley. 01:54:55
We can't control what's happening elsewhere. But in terms of just general applications, does this mean that it's more likely that 01:55:01
things are going to sprawl, going to be built out with less open space? I mean it's not that we can change anything about that. 01:55:08
I'm just trying to understand not necessarily basically what they're saying is. 01:55:14
In between the lines, is, your subdivisions are. 01:55:21
Hopefully an allowed use. 01:55:25
If it meets the ordinance, it should be passed, and it should be passed quickly, efficiently. 01:55:28
If at some point Holiday decides to change the zoning scheme of the entire city. 01:55:33
To reduce the number of subdivisions and curtail. 01:55:39
The idea of sprawl, that's definitely their purview. That's still their their their authority as a police power. 01:55:43
To regulate their own land use rights for the city, the process by which that occurs. 01:55:49
Has been somewhat truncated so that it occurs more efficiently. 01:55:54
So it's not. 01:55:59
It's not the necessarily things will be more or less built up, it's just that the process is shorter and more clear for yeah, you 01:56:01
know and essentially. 01:56:05
Brad is really excited. 01:56:10
We had this whole overarching theme of monarchy housing. 01:56:12
Housing that needs to be. 01:56:16
And the idea is that, well, we're not getting enough homes out there quickly enough. 01:56:18
And so the idea. 01:56:23
Also, some builders are stuck in the process of subdividing. 01:56:25
That's why from Homebuilder Builders Association's point of view is they can't get the product out there quick enough. 01:56:29
So this is another. 01:56:34
Sort of tick in that process to help that through. 01:56:36
Oh, sure, Yeah. So availability, sure. Availability. 01:56:41
Legislature. It's two sides of the same coin. Some will say it's. 01:56:48
Developer friendly others will say it's an effort to. 01:56:51
Having some downward pressure on home prices if you can build them quicker. 01:56:56
There's more competition. 01:57:01
Taking advantage, Yeah. So there's price will come down, but we have scarcity. 01:57:03
There's scarcity, there is no competition, so that's the competition benefits. 01:57:09
The seller or. 01:57:14
Sure, I think in what's odd. 01:57:15
Commissioner, gone for you. 01:57:18
Neighborhoods. 01:57:20
Is that? 01:57:22
A different animal. 01:57:23
You don't have a bunch of greenfields that we're developing and planning with roads. 01:57:24
New subdivisions and pipes, except for, you know, Royal Holiday Hills subdivision. That's kind of its own animal. 01:57:28
But. 01:57:35
So we're being placed in this bucket with a lot of other municipalities. 01:57:37
I guess my other question is thank you. Thank you. My other question is implications for the holiday in the long term so. 01:57:43
You know, it gives staff more responsibility. 01:57:50
Bigger burden? 01:57:54
You know, your land use authority and it moves things faster. If in the future, what if we have a smaller staff or a bigger staff 01:57:57
or a staff who's not as competent and efficient? I mean, just are there future implications that we should think about in terms of 01:58:02
do we want to retain some kind of? 01:58:06
It's positive control or no, it's possible. However, I don't know how you're going to get away from that. If the river is a 01:58:12
staffing issue, we do have contract services that we we use for that type of. 01:58:18
Help resistance. 01:58:24
However, in the past a lot of your sub. 01:58:26
You defer the final. 01:58:30
Staff anyway, most of the time, yeah, 80% of the time. 01:58:31
And you have the right to do that, to do that. 01:58:35
You can also review your concept and preliminary together tandem. 01:58:38
In the ordinance that is already built that way, some of them come to you. 01:58:43
Pre prepared that way so. 01:58:48
Umm. 01:58:51
I mean staff will we move pretty quickly. It's really it's the applicants engineering side and the development sides. 01:58:52
Is really the the hang up sometimes? 01:59:00
OK, so it's not going to like sync you guys to just have to? 01:59:05
I don't think so. OK, great. 01:59:09
Other thoughts? Just one final point, I don't want to try and revisit every item on the here because I trust the staff. 01:59:13
Indicated these changes for. 01:59:21
And I'd hate to see unintended consequences by us starting to try and create something that we can understand a little better. 01:59:24
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I do want to say that I support staff and the recommendations and. 01:59:32
I think I'd have a difficult time in breaking pieces out. I don't know how the Commission feels. 01:59:40
I don't want to. No, I did that for 30 years. I'm tired of doing that. I personally would be comfortable to just say this is good. 01:59:46
You know, I appreciate that and I'm glad we do this in a transparent, open way. 01:59:56
Let me address something really quickly the Utah League of Cities and Towns has been able to. 02:00:04
Is that a grant or how was it funded? OK, so the legislature. 02:00:11
Actually is throwing some money out there to specific consulting firms, specifically attorneys offices. 02:00:16
To review municipalities proposal changes. 02:00:21
Luckily, our firm is one of them. 02:00:26
This specific code was modeled after language that has already been submitted to their office and reviewed. 02:00:28
So it's very similar to another example that's been looked at and deemed appropriate. 02:00:36
All right. Well, we like city staff, so 18. OK, All right. Do we have anyone who's ready to make a motion on this particular issue 02:00:44
this evening? 02:00:49
I'm Ricky here, so I don't have the language written out, so I know I'm going to screw this up. I would recommend we forward to 02:00:54
the City Council, the proposed ordinance. 02:00:59
Subdivision language. 02:01:04
Is that sufficient With a positive recommendation? Yes. Thank you. 02:01:09
OK, do we have a 2nd, I'll second that right motion made by Commissioner Burnt and seconded by Commissioner Cunningham. Let's have 02:01:13
a vote, Commissioner Cunningham. 02:01:18
Commissioner, Fund aye, Commissioner Gong aye. Commissioner burnt aye and chair votes aye as well. Unanimous motion to move the 02:01:24
text amendment forward with a favorable recommendation. All right, let's go to the next item on our agenda, which is the. 02:01:32
Preliminary and final plat review for the Wheatland subdivision. 02:01:42
So. 02:01:48
Car. 02:01:50
OK. This application is the preliminary and final for the Wheatland subdivision. This is at 4930 Westmore Rd. It's. 02:01:55
Currently church property that is being subdivided into 10 lots. 02:02:06
The applicant is proposing a street ext. From Delaware up to Westmore and. 02:02:11
The five lots on each side of that new public St. the public St. will be accepted by City Council at a future meeting. 02:02:19
And all of the building permits will be handled for each individual residential lot. 02:02:28
And I'll have the applicant come up and he can present any further details. 02:02:35
OK. Thank you. 02:02:40
Good evening. We you guys have seen this, just give us your name and address just for. 02:02:50
1214 E Vine St. Thank you. 02:02:58
You guys have seen this preliminary review, this preliminary plat? 02:03:01
I think two or three weeks ago. 02:03:07
It hasn't changed. 02:03:10
Submitted all. 02:03:11
Platt Stormwater plan and civil plans to carry. We've gotten the red lines back from her and resubmitted today. So. 02:03:14
Nothing's changed. I'll answer any questions if anyone. 02:03:23
OK. Thank you. 02:03:27
Commissioners, any questions for? 02:03:30
Mr. We. 02:03:33
Any questions for city staff while we're here? 02:03:38
Has there been any proposed resolution on that one little corner spot on the northeast corner? 02:03:41
Was asked about in the public hearing. 02:03:50
Yeah, what the? Well, there's a tree or a tree and some grass area that would be where the the road would normally end. 02:03:53
Yeah. So that's that is city property. So it has nothing to do with this subdivision. 02:04:04
The city, it'll just remain city property. I let that property owner know the process that he can apply for it to vacate that 02:04:10
section and apply it to his. 02:04:14
Property I haven't heard anything back from. 02:04:19
Might cost money. 02:04:22
Thank you. 02:04:25
Well, I as I have and I've been here for all the meetings, which is always nice when you're here for all the meetings to review 02:04:30
everything. I I think you've put together a really nice subdivision here and and a great plan. We appreciate your completeness in 02:04:38
getting everything submitted and that we can get to this point to be able to to. 02:04:45
Vote on a preliminary and final. 02:04:54
It looks like from staff findings, that everything. 02:04:59
Is has been submitted that the lots comply in size. 02:05:03
That complies with general plan. 02:05:08
Storm water and public improvements have been. 02:05:13
And fire access and that that everything looks really good. So we appreciate your attention to detail. Do we have anyone who's 02:05:17
willing to make a motion this evening? 02:05:22
I'll be happy to make a motion that's a long motion and that so I motion that the Planning Commission approved the preliminary 02:05:27
plan and final plat application by Benjamin Wheat for Wheatland Subdivision A10 Unit residential subdivision located at 4930 S 02:05:35
Westmore Rd. in the R110 zone. 02:05:42
Based on the following findings, 1 development details required for a preliminary and final site plan have been submitted and 02:05:50
reviewed by the TRC to each of the lots comply with the minimum width 80 feet and area 10,000 square feet for single family home 02:05:57
development in the R110 zone 3. The development complies with the general plan for the required submittals for preliminary 02:06:05
subdivision development have been provided where applicable and have been found to be complete and acceptable 5. 02:06:12
Preliminary level drawings were not subject to conditional approval. 02:06:20
Concept plan was approved unconditionally, 6 storm water detention areas and public improvements have been received by the city 02:06:24
engineer and seven fire access has been approved by the UFA. 02:06:30
Subject to the following requirements. 02:06:38
One post development bonding requirements is determined by the City engineer. Two final plat notation shall include. 02:06:42
One, a tree canopy Sustainability ordinance requirement of two additional trees planted per lot. 02:06:50
And roadway, sidewalks, curb and gutter, and driveways to comply with all standards detailed in Title 14. 02:06:58
To address all comments from the City Engineer for final approval. 02:07:06
And within one year in accordance with 1308. 02:07:10
.010. 02:07:14
D5 to defer administrative review and approval of the final plat by the Community and the Economic Development Director following 02:07:16
a positive written recommendation from TRC. 02:07:22
This is Commissioner Verdell. Second that thank you. All right, and let's have a vote. Commissioner Burnt. 02:07:29
Commissioner. Commissioner. Gone. Yes. Commissioner Font. Yes. Commissioner Cunningham and Chair votes. Aye. Thank you, Mr. Wheat. 02:07:37
We appreciate it. Thank you all. Appreciate it. All right. 02:07:42
I mean this. 02:07:50
Thumbs up What does it mean? Two additional trees? 02:07:52
Two additional additional to what? 02:07:56
For each lot trees additional to 0 like they just have to plant 2 trees, two additional trees. 02:07:58
In addition to whatever is there, Is there anything there? Yeah. Yes. Because you're creating a new streetscape. The curb, 02:08:06
gardens, sidewalk and park circle be there and that's where those trees in the park strip will be placed. OK, thanks. 02:08:12
All right. And we are rounding third base for the evening. So we'll go to our last agenda item, which is Royal Holiday Hills. 02:08:20
So discussion of block. 02:08:30
And I don't have my paper in front of me, so we'll invite the applicant to come up to or sorry to Miss Marsh, to come up to 02:08:33
present. 02:08:37
I can. Thank you. Are you going to have Mr. Tierling present this one? And I am going to exit the meeting. OK. Excellent, Mr. 02:08:44
Chairlink. Thank you. Appreciate it. 02:08:49
Action item for the Planning Commission tonight is review and consideration of the preliminary and Final plan for Block K. 02:08:54
In the Royal Holiday Hills Master Plan subdiv. 02:09:03
Block K if you remember is the mixed-use development or block on the east, farther and east side along memory lane. 02:09:06
For royal holiday. 02:09:14
This is a phase that when. 02:09:16
Conceived the General Plan or the smaller Master Plan. 02:09:19
We didn't think this phase would happen this soon, frankly, but it's it's good to that we're taking advantage of the need for 02:09:23
housing. 02:09:27
For the 100 units that are proposed here. 02:09:32
Myriad of mixture of styles. 02:09:35
The Planning Commission approved a concept layout for the site in August. 02:09:38
Specifically. 02:09:43
Reviewing the architecture for the detached single family homes. 02:09:46
The applicant has made a significant change in that architecture meeting more than Acura of. 02:09:50
More traditional Gable ended style homes. 02:09:55
Which you can see in your elevations. 02:10:00
The multi family and the townhome product remained very similar to what Block D which is the current building that's being built 02:10:03
and finished up now. 02:10:08
Specifically the utility connections and all of the. 02:10:14
The nuanced civil work is detailed in your packet over several pages. 02:10:19
And I'll let the applicant go through those as well. 02:10:24
Another issue that we, the Planning Commission, was wanting to take a look at is the idea of a. 02:10:28
Walkway or pedestrian access onto Memory Rd. 02:10:32
Memory Lane. 02:10:36
We do have a situation where there's a great change. 02:10:40
Great change from memory lane down to the lots would be in this area. 02:10:44
So I think because the SDMP doesn't really address St. improvements on memory lane. 02:10:50
We'd like to take a look at that as a policy standard point of view with the City Council. 02:10:56
Rather than just sort of apply it to this development phase. 02:11:03
Because I think it's going to be much more significant than what we are anticipating it could possibly have to be or what to look 02:11:06
like. 02:11:10
In the meantime, the applicant has proposed A detailed trail plan that goes on the interior. I'll let him show you where that is 02:11:14
located. 02:11:19
So other than that, staff is comfortable that the preliminary and final plan meet the SDMP. 02:11:25
For development on block. 02:11:32
Which is strictly residential. 02:11:34
And the architectural in heights with utility connections, et cetera. 02:11:37
Are congruent with that approval. Now the applicant is who is selling the property to a developer. 02:11:43
Has requested an updated water availability letter. You'll see that that's written in our staff report as a condition. 02:11:50
I think they're still waiting on that updated water availability requirements. 02:11:58
That really, we already know that these units can be serviced by selling Public Utilities. 02:12:02
They're just asking for additional clarification on what those connections are supposed to look. 02:12:07
And I am anticipating that should come soon, but they're always delayed. 02:12:13
So that could be a condition going forward that a. 02:12:18
OK, I'm going to invite you, John, to scroll the computer screen so that we're all looking at the same. 02:12:23
Thing and. 02:12:29
With with that being said, Are you ready for us to invite? 02:12:32
The applicant. All right, come on up. 02:12:37
Hello. 02:12:42
Now it's a nice thing to come before the Commission at the end of the meeting and not have all the crowds here. 02:12:44
Hi, Brian, how you doing? Thank you. 02:12:50
We're excited to get this phase going. One of the things that's really nice about this that we tried to do with the single family 02:12:55
lots as well as. 02:12:58
Building this phase now provides A buffer from all the construction that's going to continue to go on that site for the neighbors 02:13:02
that are across the street. So we think that part of it's really good in addition to getting more housing into the city of holiday 02:13:08
that we really need in a variety of types from detached single family to stacked flats. And so I'm going to interrupt you and have 02:13:14
you give your name and address. Chris Longson, 4954 Fairview, Dr. Holladay, UT. Thank you, Chris. Sorry, I apologize for 02:13:20
interrupting your flow, but. 02:13:26
It's all good. And if you noticed my holiday address, I broke the number one rule 23 years ago. Don't develop in your own backyard 02:13:32
so some people don't learn. I know, so I haven't learned yet after 23 years. 02:13:39
Yeah, exactly. 02:13:48
So. 02:13:50
I think you know, we're here to answer questions. John wanted me to explain a little bit. There is a common misconception that 02:13:51
there's a pathway around the property that is required that was actually part of the ivory development plan. 02:13:59
And ours is just having our pedestrian ways, however we've embraced. 02:14:08
You know, trying to create pathways. Obviously we've always proposed in the SDMP we showed the pathway that went along Big 02:14:12
Cottonwood Creek. 02:14:17
We're also showing the connection to that. 02:14:21
John, do you have that plan? 02:14:26
Wasn't that if he go back? 02:14:29
This. 02:14:30
So if you want, let's see, not that one, go back, go back there. 02:14:35
How to point this out to you when the screens are John, Do you just want to point out where the pathway? 02:14:40
OK, so to the West of this. So this is up on top of the hill, right block K is. 02:14:48
Sunset Dr. is up on that level and then below that is situated blocks HI and J. 02:14:54
And you know, we're still planning those, but one of the things that will go in there eventually is a parking deck that will look 02:15:04
like a service parking lot at this grade because you'll have grade +2 levels. 02:15:09
Which will be about half of that. 02:15:15
Length of what you're seeing in on Sunset Drive. 02:15:18
But one of the things to enable us to develop or have the other developer develop Block K is we need to underground that section 02:15:23
of the transmission lines. 02:15:28
And so as part of that, we're working through those agreements with Rocky Mountain Power. 02:15:34
So the Commission. 02:15:40
They hate varying transmission lines. This will come at the cost of millions of dollars just for this small section. 02:15:42
To bury it, and we also have to have a fairly large easement in an area where the underground duct bank goes. 02:15:49
So along the West side of Sunset Dr. we will have a buried duct bank underground. 02:15:56
And we will have approximately 15 feet from our retaining walls that retain Sunset Dr. 15 feet from there till the edge of the 02:16:03
roadway and we haven't, we'll have an 18 foot easement with the power company for that duct bank. 02:16:10
In that 15 feet we can place landscaping. However, we can't place any trees in that area and so we are going our our our proposed 02:16:18
plan is showing an 8 foot trail pathway going in that area with landscaping on both sides of it. 02:16:26
And so that's where you know you can come up and loop. If you're coming along the Creek, you can come up. 02:16:35
It's still hard enough it would just cause all the water coming off the road to run right straight onto Block K and into those 02:17:16
homes. 02:17:19
So it doesn't really work for a trail. There are some pinch points as well. So we're going to take land internal to the property 02:17:22
and create that trail system in there and we can still down on. 02:17:28
The far South end, in the corner you can see where the writing is there, where memory lane comes down and curves around the 02:17:34
cemetery, where we can provide a pedestrian connect, another pedestrian connection to the neighborhood where somebody on that 02:17:40
street or in from that neighborhood can enter into this property. 02:17:46
There's a great change all along behind those homes and they'll have to be a fence along there to prevent people from. 02:17:52
Entering those yards or dropping into those yards, but when you get down to there, we have the ability to match enough grade to 02:18:00
get a pedestrian connection for the community. 02:18:05
Yeah, try to skip down to the landscaping plan. 02:18:14
You have to bear with me while this thing tries to process, it's going to blow up this computer. You want me to address this a 02:18:19
little bit, John? Yeah, if you wouldn't mind. OK, so as we're trying to. 02:18:24
Work with the the land that we have and getting these 100 units in here we've since the last plan that you have seen we've 02:18:31
actually oriented sunset, I mean Block K and and and the road internal to Block K to parallel a little bit closer to what Memory 02:18:38
Lane is doing. 02:18:44
Directions are all screwy on that property. E doesn't is not really east. 02:18:51
The roads aren't straight, but we've shortened up some of the backyards and done some different things to get, you know these 18 02:18:56
foot driveways in, but also enable a long sunset Drive on that east side to allow for a 5 foot sidewalk and have approximately 18 02:19:03
foot drives and be able to accommodate street trees. 02:19:09
Along that whole street on the east side since we can't get them on the West side, so there's been some re engineering to to 02:19:16
accomplish getting the landscaping. 02:19:21
To work and have St. Trees like we're having in the rest of the development, which. 02:19:26
Obviously the city encourages and and we've have as requirements in our STMP and we love them as well. 02:19:31
Creating a great neighborhood, so. 02:19:37
Those things have have have changed. 02:19:39
Eventually the substation will do a little. Is going to do a little. 02:19:43
Work and added We're going to lose most of the above grade polls, but there will be one new poll that goes up to replace all of 02:19:48
them where it comes up a back up above grade. 02:19:53
Then goes back down into the substation until they upgrade the substation. 02:19:59
And then it'll be set up already with a box and everything can be underground and that above grade poll eventually will go away. 02:20:04
And where is that substation? The substation? You see it every day when you drive Murray Holiday Rd. It's the one up on Murray 02:20:11
Holiday roads, OK? 02:20:14
Or I just? 02:20:19
Thought for a minute you were saying it was somewhere in Block K and I was gonna say, I always remember seeing the north side of 02:20:20
it. So right now you have multiple poles surrounding that that will reduce at least on you know the West and the and the east side 02:20:26
will reduce to the, I mean excuse me, on the South side will reduce to one pole. 02:20:32
That's where it will go under. 02:20:38
And then go to the, you know, underground to the South. 02:20:42
And eventually the way we will, we're setting it up with an entire vault that will enable that to in the future when they change 02:20:45
their equipment in the substation then they have plans it could be. 02:20:51
Two years. It could be 20 years with Rocky Mountain Power. They haven't decided yet, but it enables them just to pull a cable 02:20:57
straight from that underground box and eliminate the overhead pole. 02:21:02
Which will be great for all of us, but Oh yeah, you know. But we are eliminating all the overhead polls along Sunset in this 02:21:06
process. Except. 02:21:10
For one, which will be a new one. 02:21:14
Now I've got a question for you. Or did you find what you're looking for? I just wanted to go through the. 02:21:17
Landscaping go right ahead, right. I can say my question go ahead. Well no, I was just gonna you had you mentioned something John 02:21:24
about that. 02:21:28
The townhomes and the single family homes will be. Who will they be built by and are you selling the property to them and then 02:21:33
they'll build it or we used to retain? 02:21:39
Who built The Who built the homes on the the townhomes on Block L? This is a totally different type of product and a mixture of 02:21:45
product. So in the in the current site development master plan, all the homes that are along. 02:21:54
Along memory lane are required to be a single family detached product and that's why you're seeing that. 02:22:02
Once you come back into the property a little bit, the classification changes and we can build some stack flats in that area. 02:22:07
They're not, they're not even close to the maximum height that we're allowed, but they are a taller. So we're having the graduated 02:22:12
stepping as you. 02:22:17
Doing planning purposes to come off and go back into the higher density so. 02:22:23
And they will do both products, they will do all the product, they're buying the entire block, but you get it all set the way you 02:22:29
want it and with our agreement and with the city and then then they have. 02:22:35
Guardrails there within is that how it works, ask that question again I'm not sure I understood well I'm just I just I'm I guess 02:22:42
this is just sort of a just a comment on the process that you go through with the SDMP and you get it all arranged and then you 02:22:48
sell it off to them so they know exactly what they have to. 02:22:53
Operate within their guidelines, correct. And that in addition to you know, we've been taking this through the required 02:23:00
entitlements to get them so they can build their stuff we've we've chosen to. 02:23:05
Be here with them and we've been working with them on all their plans and we're we're you know they're building it they're buying 02:23:11
it but we have been you know working with them on the design and it's a it's a collaborative process. They will be the they will 02:23:16
be the end developer and seller of these homes but we have all our agreements how everything operates because it's on private 02:23:22
streets and so forth and. 02:23:28
All the common areas and access to common areas. And so we have all those agreements in place for for this to all work together. 02:23:33
OK, so go ahead. And so you did this with Block L selling. 02:23:39
But with Block D, have you retained ownership of Block D? We have retained, we have partnerships. So you I think you'll see in 02:23:45
this that every, every block will have a different ownership name and and potentially different partners. 02:23:52
But the main partner on this still you know is the main owner on OK on Block D that's great. Yeah. So all the all the commercial 02:23:59
and. 02:24:04
And the more dense product of the residential, I think you'll see. 02:24:10
You know that the owner will, you know, maintain control of all that. But who knows? They could all sell in the future and be 02:24:16
different parts. But that's why you have all the agreements to make sure it works all together so. Right. OK. Thank you. 02:24:22
John. 02:24:28
No, I mean, so for example, when a building permit comes in. 02:24:30
They'll be for individual houses. So what we'll do is we'll take that application from Vandell. We'll just compare it to what you 02:24:35
approve to make sure it's jives together. Mm-hmm. So there's there's that's the continuity. 02:24:40
OK, I think. 02:24:47
Reviewing the landscaping plan. 02:24:49
I counted. 02:24:52
250. 02:24:53
New trees. Not just landscaping, but just trees, which is significant for just this block. 02:24:55
That's a significant increase in tree canopy. 02:25:01
That's great. All we have is garbage trees out there right now that. 02:25:04
Grown overtime well and I'll just make a parenthetical comment that I really like the work that's been done out on Highland Drive 02:25:09
by those landscaping crews or. 02:25:13
Tree management. I don't know what you call them, but it looks like an actual. 02:25:18
Like a nice area or it's coming, it's coming along. We don't want to bring that subject cover around, John, right now because they 02:25:24
went a little beyond what they were supposed to. Fortunately, they cut the stuff, they cut down the willows and stuff to the 02:25:29
ground. They did not take them out and they will be back next spring. 02:25:34
But they did. The nice part that they've done is they did limb up the trees like they were supposed to remove the garbage trees, 02:25:40
but they did get a little out of control and that's going to be corrected in the next phase and just making sure of that. But it's 02:25:45
been a lot of people have complained about it and they did go beyond what the the agreement was and OK, well then maybe strike my 02:25:49
remarks. 02:25:54
I liked it but it looks a lot cleaner, but it looks cleaner. However you do notice along the new streets have been placed in the 02:26:00
London plains that are all planted. 02:26:04
New St. lights are in. I mean, it's coming together as you said. 02:26:10
I try not to drive where it says do not enter, but I do like to drive down the road and just see what I can find. Well, pretty 02:26:14
soon when Block D opens, all the roads are gonna be open, so you'll be able to drive anywhere in there pretty quickly here in a 02:26:19
couple of months. So OK. 02:26:23
I have some questions about the the 10 foot recreational trail and I might have missed a couple parts of this. So you said that 02:26:30
that's going to be part of that thing with the electrical stuff. So they can't plant trees next to that trail. We're on top of it. 02:26:35
We're on top of it. I. 02:26:40
And did you say it is going to be paved? It's a paved trail. It'll be a paved trail with lands. It's it's 8 feet wide. We have 15 02:26:47
feet there. So the rest of it will be landscaping. 02:26:51
Is it and I'm just trying to see if. 02:26:57
Read these diagrams correctly. Is it on grade with the roads that are going back into the? It's on grade with Sunset, which is the 02:27:01
Main Street there. You also have that 5 foot sidewalk on the east side of the street where the trees are, so you have sidewalk. 02:27:07
Pathway on both sides of the street. 02:27:14
So I'm just trying to imagine how people are going to use it. 02:27:17
For example, if you're with a toddler and you're going along but cars are driving in and out of the roads, you'd want to be on the 02:27:21
West side if you're. If you're just going for a walk and doing a loop, you're going to want to be on the West side if you're 02:27:26
coming out of the. 02:27:31
You have a sidewalk on that side of the street, Sure, until you want to cross. OK Is there pedestrian access up? And again, I 02:27:36
don't know which direction this is up towards Murray Holiday Rd. So that people can walk from there. On the corner on the South 02:27:41
side, there's there's that pedestrian connection. 02:27:47
There's a great there's a great difference off of memory on the other part where you can't. There's no way to pedestrian access 02:27:54
that other than climbing. 02:27:58
And then will the will the this big wide path, will it also cut into the commercial places so that theoretically people could 02:28:04
walk? 02:28:07
And feel pretty safe to go into the future commercial areas in the middle, this is above that grade. So on the northern half, 02:28:12
there'll be a, you know, what we're planning right now is a parking deck that the top level, the parking deck, so grade, grade +2 02:28:18
levels will be equal with that. So somebody could go in there and go down stairways or elevators to get down to the commercial, 02:28:24
but this is significantly higher. 02:28:30
Then then Rodeo Dr. 02:28:37
OK. 02:28:40
It's not quite 30 feet, but it's it's high. I mean you 20 it varies anywhere from about 18 to. 02:28:42
Maybe close to 27 feet. It's it's a significant grade change. If you go out there today, you see where dirt's laid back up on that 02:28:49
hill, that dirt's laid back there to build the the retaining wall. 02:28:55
For the parking deck and for the other things. And then that dirt will be used to backfill. 02:29:02
That retaining wall, and that's the reason for those piles of dirt that have been there. 02:29:07
Over 50 years now and we got stopped on our construction back in the financial crisis, so. 02:29:12
Yeah, OK. I'm just trying. I'm just trying to imagine and and you know, I'm still trying to put this together in mind, but just. 02:29:18
It would feel like a travesty if somebody's driving from Block K into the commercial space or driving to get on both ends the 02:29:25
grades. 02:29:29
Dissipate and you come down sidewalks and down those streets which are met you know meet ADA requirements and so forth. So all 02:29:33
that grading is taken into account that it will be easy to make that that transition in a in a walk. OK great. So I I mean this 02:29:40
the grades we have 30 feet of fall not just east to West but. 02:29:47
You know S to north and so it's hard to visualize all this comes together. 02:29:55
Should come out for a site visit We can take. I don't know if we can take planning commissioners on tours unless we take them. 02:30:00
Sure. No, we can. In fact, it would be a really great idea if John can set it up. I mean we've got right now is actually a really 02:30:06
good time because the residential isn't open and we could get access. John knows who's been out there. We could get access to 02:30:11
those upper floors and have you look over the whole side if you wanted to do it. That would be great. 02:30:17
Before it's all owned, when can we go? Can we do it without opening it up to the entire public? That was the only question. As 02:30:24
long as we take into small groups, yes. 02:30:28
What you can do site visits. 02:30:33
You'd have to notice a site visit, but if other. 02:30:35
But as long as we don't have four people. 02:30:39
Together on the trip, right. We'd have to have a smaller group and that's how the council has done it, but we'd be happy to. 02:30:42
Like so many of you are new. We've been living this forever and so we know it really well. So we would welcome you to come out and 02:30:50
have a look and again right now. 02:30:54
Is an awesome time because you get up on that fifth floor where the condos are in block. 02:30:58
Your views are spectacular, but it also helps. 02:31:02
Visualize where all these blocks are that you'll be talking about. So let's get it set up. Love to do that in the next couple 02:31:05
weeks and just. 02:31:09
Let's try and do it before the end of the year. 02:31:15
Yeah, yeah. In fact, it's especially when you talk about this. 02:31:20
The trail The first portions of the trail are in up against the Creek. 02:31:24
So when you stand on that trail, you now you would see it on paper, but you actually realize how wide it is and how separated you 02:31:28
are from either traffic or you know, other parking stalls and how close you can get to the Creek. 02:31:34
It's an experience. Well, I'm available next week. 02:31:41
So it would be helpful for you to see it. I think, yeah, I actually think it would be really helpful particularly for our newest. 02:31:46
Members of the Commission. It's not like I've even been on the Commission forever, so you don't even have a permanent name tag 02:31:53
yet, so. 02:31:55
I'm up there with it a dry erase. 02:32:00
I'm just sure that's what I'm feeling, Brian. Your probation is gonna be the. 02:32:05
We call them stylized name tags. 02:32:10
All right. Any other comments about the landscape? OK. Angela, did you get all your comments, all your questions asked? I think 02:32:15
so. And and that would be helpful to take a letter because I mean I didn't realize the elevation change was so big. You know, I 02:32:22
just we have a lot more every time we're bringing in another block, we're going to be here and so. 02:32:29
The more you can understand it, the better it'll be for all of us, yes. 02:32:36
Jill, have you got anything? I do not. OK, Brian, down down your end. 02:32:41
No, I don't have anything. We had a concern last time about whether or not some of the design elements really met the pallet. 02:32:47
I assume that you guys have worked that out and. 02:32:59
Was there anything significant change in the significant? 02:33:04
If I can get this to Scroll down, I'll show you. I don't have a what A comparison of what was previously approved or proposed. I 02:33:08
think you can remember kind of what they look like. 02:33:14
With the I just want to make sure that yeah, it was worth having the discussion and and the staff is satisfied if as soon as I saw 02:33:20
him I knew immediately that that's exactly what you were thinking. Well, I I remember because I was one of the ones made that made 02:33:26
the comment that said this is weird, no offense. 02:33:32
No offense to whoever else it was, but in a really good way. 02:33:40
Yeah, it just. 02:33:46
It just wasn't congruous with the examples that were presented in the STMP. And we're just picking on Alex 'cause he wasn't here 02:33:48
the last one, so. 02:33:51
He didn't. OK, yeah. So I think there are, there are three home types. OK here. Yeah, he's explaining. Here's one. 02:33:57
And. 02:34:05
So more Gable lands a lot of Gables. 02:34:07
Without the real. 02:34:12
You know, extreme pitches and flat walls. 02:34:14
And then the backs, yeah, I think there was a comment of the backs of the homes not looking so plain. 02:34:20
Yeah, here's the other. 02:34:29
These are really going to open up another product type that's less it's more affordable. 02:34:32
It hits a different part of the market that's going to really help our city. So when you say more affordable, I'm just curious if 02:34:38
you can give a ballpark issue. Well, the townhomes are selling for around $1,000,000. What what will must these go for? 02:34:43
OK. And how many beds? They're single family homes instead of townhomes, OK? 02:34:57
All right, most of these have 3 bedrooms. 02:35:02
I think all of them have. 02:35:06
Maybe we shouldn't go see these. 02:35:09
We do have an apartment for you to rent. They're only 3000. I'm sure you got a tough ****. I'll just think at the back end, some 02:35:11
person will get into affordable homing after home after six other people have moved up. 02:35:17
I said affordable for holiday. 02:35:27
With that caveat, we can. Yeah, then that makes sense. 02:35:30
All. 02:35:36
Let me get back to where we need to be so at this point. 02:35:38
Commissioners, do we have any important discussion between ourselves or are we ready to? 02:35:41
I have lost this again. 02:35:47
The power the pads don't work as well to transition with the big document files either, so. 02:35:51
Yeah. 02:35:58
All right. 02:36:00
3. 02:36:09
And John staff is. 02:36:12
Comfortable with recommending a favorable. 02:36:15
Yes, so favorable. 02:36:20
Preliminary plan approval. 02:36:23
And then there's still a plat that needs to be reviewed, so deferring a final to staff, OK, All right. 02:36:25
OK. 02:36:33
And we do need to make sure we get the remaining utility letters, but that's something that that's coming, OK. 02:36:34
All. 02:36:42
And. 02:36:43
Are you comfortable with having staff be? 02:36:45
Be able to take care of all these. 02:36:49
Details definitely, OK. 02:36:51
Well, with that, do we have any Commissioner that's willing to make a motion this evening? 02:36:54
I will, OK, Commissioner. 02:36:59
I motion to approve the Preliminary Site Development Plan and plat for Royal Holiday Hills Block KA 100 Unit mixed-use Residential 02:37:02
Subdivision in the RMU Zone located at 4833 S Sunset Blvd. Lane. 02:37:11
With final site plan and plat approvals to be delegated to staff Finding that the proposal 1 complies with the conceptual site 02:37:21
plan approved by the Commission for Block K2 construction elements and details are found to be acceptable by divisions. 02:37:30
The tech of the Technical Review Committee, 3 development details and all related components comply with the RMU zone and SDMP as 02:37:41
a master planned project and four preliminary plat is found to be formatted in compliance with City Hall and State of Utah 02:37:48
regulations. 02:37:56
Should I read conditioned and the conditions for final approval to be submitted to and verified and approved by Community and 02:38:04
Economic Development Director One submit all remaining utility connection letters to work with staff on all needful clarification? 02:38:13
Clarifications, Grammatical and or formatting changes to the final plat prior to recording approval and three submittal. 02:38:23
Of a vertical ownership component to the final plat, showing separation and delineation of owned spaces within each building, IE 02:38:33
common versus private. 02:38:38
Do we have? 02:38:45
I. 02:38:48
Thank you, Commissioner Gong. All right, Commissioner Burnt. 02:38:49
Hi, Commissioner Gong. Hi. Commissioner Font, aye. Commissioner Cunningham, I and chair votes aye. 02:38:54
So we'll have a unanimous approval of the preliminary site development plan. Thank you and we hope to see you very soon for 02:39:00
individual or small group tours. 02:39:06
OK. Thank you so much. Now at one point I thought I saw minutes. Yeah, in here, but I don't see minutes on. 02:39:13
It should be in your second-half of the packet, I just somehow didn't see them to prove. Did anyone have any comments for 02:39:22
substance? 02:39:27
Substantive changes to the minutes from the October 10th meeting. 02:39:34
All right then. 02:39:40
I motion that we approve the Minutes for the October 10th meeting. Do we have a second? 02:39:42
2nd, Thank you, Commissioner Cunningham, and let's just do all in favor. Aye? I have to abstain. I wasn't here. OK. All right. So 02:39:49
we have 4 in favor and one abstention. Is that acceptable? 02:39:56
All right. Do we have anything else that I approve? 02:40:03
I approve, with the caveat that I was not here. 02:40:09
But we have to have four of us to approve it. So thank you for being willing to approve. OK, All right. Next that, yeah is Paul 02:40:14
just mentioned the holiday calendar. When do we need to approve that meeting scheduled by? We will have a meeting on the 19th. 02:40:21
So you have a meeting in two weeks. Unfortunately, I do have some outstanding applicants that are looking for. 02:40:28
Space on an agenda. 02:40:34
So I will bring that 2024 calendar to you. If you have any changes that you'd like to see, let me know and I'll we'll list them 02:40:35
out. 02:40:39
Umm. 02:40:44
And you're going to get our tour set now. I'm all excited. 02:40:47
It's going to snow Friday. 02:40:56
All right, then we will go ahead and adjourn our meeting. 02:40:59
I kind of want to do that, so I've been waiting. 02:41:04
Thanks everyone. 02:41:07
Thank you. 02:41:10
Thank you. Good job. 02:41:10
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