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Personally like this better for a work session, but if the work. 00:00:00
Session is fairly short, I don't think it's worth. 00:00:05
Going to the work switching. So I think it just depends on what the agenda. 00:00:09
Right. 00:00:13
We're going to have a pretty. 00:00:17
I'm anticipating we'll have a bit of a discussion on the zone change that's going to. 00:00:19
Be open for public. 00:00:24
And anticipating quite a bit of activity. 00:00:27
Yeah. 00:00:34
So are we recording? 00:00:36
All right, well, welcome to the work session. 00:00:40
Get going here and I am going before we get. 00:00:44
Open a public meeting, they decided to on the agenda. 00:00:48
I'm going to turn it over to Gina. 00:00:51
All right to introduce our new newly hired and long-awaited communications and. 00:00:54
And let Lina tell you a little bit about. 00:01:00
That's I graduated with my Masters in Public Administration this past year from my undergrad and communications. 00:01:07
And I spent last year working for Highland City as their communication specialist, so I'm a little bit familiar with the 00:01:15
environment, but really exciting to serve holiday and. 00:01:20
Just you. 00:01:26
Expand your communications program a little bit. 00:01:27
I knew you're from Utah. Yeah, I grew up in Alpine, so. 00:01:32
Not too far away, but yeah, accustomed to the snow for sure. And like it's a it's a similar type of feel with holiday and all 00:01:40
time. Yeah. 00:01:45
Wow. 00:01:52
Commute last night. 00:01:54
You know. 00:01:57
That's public service for you. Do you have to go back down to UT? 00:02:01
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's OK. 00:02:07
Well, we're excited to have you on board. We've been. 00:02:18
Waiting on a number of positions over the last few years to kind of fill out. 00:02:21
What would be a normal staff? I guess for other cities? I don't know how big, how big is highland, like how many citizens and I 00:02:28
don't even know how does around. 00:02:32
Smaller than. 00:02:39
Little smaller. The demographics are pretty similar, yeah. 00:02:41
The city staff is maybe a little bit more robust than holiday, but. 00:02:45
It's clearly working for you, but. 00:02:54
Yeah, pretty similar. 00:02:56
Well, we're excited to. 00:02:59
Get this going and see what happens. 00:03:02
I think there's a lot of opportunity. 00:03:05
For sure. You've been sharing all those opportunities with Linda all week. 00:03:07
I think she's got a pretty big To Do List in this way. 00:03:15
Well, that's great. Any questions from council? 00:03:21
Wow. 00:03:27
We're gonna, we're gonna wake up next Wednesday. We just put on the calendar. 00:03:31
Get, you know, talk to you a little bit about your visions. 00:03:38
Those sorts of faith. We're excited. 00:03:42
And I'm excited you come from a role where you've been doing this because I'm sure you have some great ideas for the city, 00:03:45
opportunities for us that we've never been able to execute on so. 00:03:50
Looking forward to it. 00:03:57
Thanks for picking holiday. 00:03:58
I don't know if you wanted to say Gina or are we going to release her to her trip back to Alpine? Well, I mean, I think we had 00:04:04
talked about her staying for this first meeting that it is totally up to you given the weather conditions right now. 00:04:12
I think not yet. It actually looks like, at least for holiday, like it's going to stay clear. I don't know how it looks for the 00:04:21
region. 00:04:25
You can join us next week. 00:04:38
This is. 00:04:42
Nice to meet you. 00:04:52
Yeah. 00:04:59
Finally got. 00:05:18
Finally got the. I don't want to say it. 00:05:20
Because I'm afraid. 00:05:24
Yeah, it's exciting. 00:05:28
Great, great talent and. 00:05:30
So it would be interesting to see what they do with it because they think a lot of it's just going to be. 00:05:33
You know what they want to put into the initiative and they want to share behind it. I think it would be great good for the city. 00:05:39
We have two vacancies right now, one that I hope we. 00:05:44
This weekend. 00:05:49
Our building official position and then we're also advertising. 00:05:52
Part time emergency manager. 00:05:57
A number of really great residents. 00:06:00
Awesome. Yeah, things seem. 00:06:04
Loosening up a little bit out in the economy in terms of. 00:06:08
It seems like anyway, I think that's right. I mean, we had 92 applications for this position. 00:06:13
We finally ended up just stopping. 00:06:21
Stop being accepting the application. We had a pretty good fit for Megan as well. 00:06:26
Yeah, it is. It's very different than when we were two years ago, so I'm really grateful for it. 00:06:35
Well, we will get going if any. There's pizza in there, a work session like this if you guys want to. 00:06:43
Continue to pick, just go right ahead. 00:06:49
Because it's pretty casual. 00:06:51
We'll let Todd get going on open and public meetings, training. 00:06:55
And we're going to start you tonight with your disclosure. 00:07:00
And they put those in front of you right now so you can get a look. I would love it. And Stephanie would love it more if you would 00:07:05
fill these out tonight. 00:07:09
You got under the Ethics Act. We're required to. 00:07:15
To fill out these disclosure statements and submit them to the mayor. 00:07:18
When we submit them to Stephanie, they are effectively submitted to the. 00:07:22
So that's the way we're working that if you look at the form and I just filled mine out again today, probably for the first time 00:07:26
in two years. 00:07:29
You will check the box under one that says you're a City Council member. 00:07:34
And then under 2 for the types of disclosures. 00:07:39
If you had received compensation from any company that does business with the city. 00:07:44
Check the box. 00:07:50
And then there's a place where you fill that. 00:07:51
If you are working in a business that is regulated by the city like I am, our offices are in holiday, so I checked that box. 00:07:55
And then I explain. 00:08:04
Why I've checked that box if you're doing business with the city in a company where you have a substantial ownership interest. 00:08:05
You need to check the box. 00:08:15
If you have some kind of personal investment. 00:08:17
That you think creates a potential conflict with your city position that you need to check the box. 00:08:20
I will tell you I'm not aware of anybody who needs to check either of those last two boxes. 00:08:27
I don't think we've had that in the city for a number of years. 00:08:31
So if you have any questions about the disclosure statements, if you'll go ahead and ask? 00:08:35
That's great. Let's get them done as well as we can tonight. City employees who are appointed to their offices or hold. 00:08:41
Employment. Fill these out. Every employee fills one out that they don't all have the same. 00:08:48
I guess the same concern that we have with Members who sit in your position during the Planning Commission around one of our Board 00:08:54
of Commissions. 00:08:58
Sometimes significant. 00:09:03
So again, pay attention to these They are the first line of defense for the city. 00:09:04
On an intensive. 00:09:10
And we do get asked for them at least once a year from a grammar request. So. 00:09:13
Yeah, if you haven't filled them out. 00:09:22
Please check the boxes and let us know if you have any. 00:09:26
If nothing. 00:09:29
Checked in the section. 00:09:30
Do you still fill out 3A or only do 3A if something and two is checked? 00:09:33
Still fill in those blanks. 00:09:39
In box well. 00:09:42
I still would like you to put anything in on just your name and address and if there's nothing in CI would say no disclosures 00:09:45
needed. 00:09:49
I think that's clarifying and helpful now. 00:09:55
Your situation may change during the year. 00:09:58
And so I'm going to ask each of you to be aware. 00:10:00
For some reason something changes and you have now. 00:10:04
A reason to disclose? 00:10:07
Come in and talk to us and we'll get you in this state and you can update. 00:10:09
That needs to happen from time to time. 00:10:13
Then the second line of defense for you from these disclosure statements. 00:10:16
If the matter comes before the Council. 00:10:19
Where you have a conflict. 00:10:23
It's important that you declare that conflict in the public. 00:10:25
Our app is kind of a minimum standard in terms of ethics and disclosure in this state. 00:10:30
I personally don't think it really goes far enough. 00:10:37
All it requires is disclosure. 00:10:40
But if you have some kind of a conflict or if you have a situation in your life. 00:10:43
That you think may create in the eyes of the Republic. 00:10:47
The appearance of the conflict of interest or the appearance of a potential conflict of interest. 00:10:51
I think it's guys that you disclose those things. I really appreciate it when you call and talk with me about those things and let 00:10:56
us know. 00:10:59
So that we can advise you the best way to handle those things. 00:11:03
While the ACT only requires disclosure in a lot of cases, my advice to you will be that you not participate in a City Council 00:11:06
decision on a matter where you have a conflict. 00:11:11
Or a clear appearance of. 00:11:16
So I would love to discuss those things with you. So we'll talk about some situations at the end of the meeting that. 00:11:19
Maybe address some of this and bring this a little bit more to your mind. 00:11:26
But this is just a really important thing. 00:11:30
There is a general distrust in government right now. 00:11:33
We see it everywhere. 00:11:37
People talk about it at the state and federal levels more than they do at the local level. 00:11:40
But it's apparent the local level. 00:11:46
In a long ways. 00:11:48
And I think we. 00:11:49
Do a lot of things to diffuse that. 00:11:52
If we're smart about the way we do our business and if we're up front and clear and candid about things. 00:11:54
And thankfully, this city always. 00:12:00
You've operated well. 00:12:03
The barometer in. 00:12:05
We're just really careful and cautious. 00:12:10
Are there any questions about the disclosure? 00:12:13
Sometimes people ask do I need to disclose my position on? 00:12:18
Boards that. 00:12:23
Serve the city better outside the city structure like Wasatch Front Waste and Recycler Mosquito Abatement District. 00:12:25
I don't ask you to do that on this disclosure statements anymore. The law is clear that your service on the sports. 00:12:32
Does not represent a conflict of interest. 00:12:37
One of the things that the mayor has always been great about is when there's an issue that involves one of those entities, he'll 00:12:40
always help the disease representative. 00:12:44
And that's really. 00:12:49
In the public side, I understand the position you're sitting in your. 00:12:51
So as somebody who advises a number of those boards in my practice. 00:12:57
I can. 00:13:03
From time to time, sitting in this seat or sitting in that seat. 00:13:04
You'll have a question flow through your mind. 00:13:08
It may be better for the entity if I voted this way. 00:13:11
But it would be better for my city if I voted the other way. 00:13:15
What I would tell you in that circumstance, while that may be hard, is you have to choose. 00:13:20
What you think that it better serves what I guess I would say. 00:13:26
The public interest related to the seat you're sitting in at the time. 00:13:31
Right. And I have, in my advice to boards like that on some occasions, seen a situation that was so stark. 00:13:36
Where a council member from a particular city. 00:13:43
Would step away from the practice decision. 00:13:46
Cost of mine several years ago. 00:13:50
We were. 00:13:53
Get approved and located. 00:13:55
A sewer treatment facility. 00:13:57
Out in the southwest end of the Vall. 00:13:59
Nobody wants to live next to a sewer treatment. 00:14:01
I can say that's not a popular place to build a house. 00:14:04
And the city where we were located. 00:14:08
Had citizens who were really up in arms and wound about it and. 00:14:12
Hot issue and when we were making the final decision on submitting the permit applications to the federal government to the county 00:14:17
for the water proclamation permits. 00:14:21
Council member from Rivers who stepped out. 00:14:28
Decision and took some heat from some other people from other cities. 00:14:30
For that decision, at the end of the day, I actually thought it was. 00:14:38
Wise in the broader course. 00:14:42
At the end of the day, that Council member was actually able to help broker a good solution to. 00:14:45
Land, despite the other words that have been unproductive diffic. 00:14:50
Both sides of that. 00:14:54
Just think about those things. They don't happen very often, but they can. 00:14:56
And public service can bring those things to the forefront. 00:15:01
And you've been elected because people think you have good wisdom and judgment. 00:15:05
So exercise. 00:15:09
When you see those things. 00:15:10
And I if you ever have questions about that? 00:15:13
I know Gina and the man would be happy for you to call us. 00:15:16
I think it's helpful. 00:15:20
We'll touch a little bit more on ethics, but let's go. And I'm going to run really fast through the open and public meeting stuff 00:15:23
tonight. 00:15:27
And the reason I'm going to do that is because you all hear it so often. 00:15:31
And Emily got a good dose of it. 00:15:36
In December when she did, the newly elected official straining through the. 00:15:39
So we'll just go briefly, Steph, if you're going to run this for. 00:15:43
You know, the purpose of the ACT is that we're supposed to do everything in the open. We call these the Sunshine laws for a 00:15:47
reason. Every state now has adopted and open a public meetings Act, and most of them look allowed to us. 00:15:53
Anytime you are together to do. 00:16:00
Any kind of official business, whether it's to make decisions on issues or to discuss issues like this work meeting, you're in a 00:16:03
meeting. 00:16:05
As the default. 00:16:09
All meetings are open unless we close them for very specific purposes. 00:16:11
In holiday, we need four people. 00:16:16
To conduct the meeting. 00:16:19
Public meeting requires go ahead. 00:16:22
Notice we have to have 24 hours agenda. Notice now that's. 00:16:26
There's not an item that requires a greater lead notice than just the 24 hours for the. 00:16:30
Your agendas have to have reasonable specificity of the topics we're going to discuss or you're going to deal with. 00:16:35
Topics that are raised by the public during a meeting that are not on the agenda can be discussed further at the discretion of the 00:16:40
chair, who is the mayor, or your Mayor Pro Tem. 00:16:45
We try to avoid that as a general rule in the city and I think that's a good policy. 00:16:50
We often will have short discussions about what should we do with this issue. 00:16:55
You know, sort of process related questions about how do we bring this back. 00:16:59
But it's rare that we get into the substance of them and I think that's wise. 00:17:03
Your notice has to be posted at the city on the Utah Public Notice website, and the statute encourages other electronic means, in 00:17:07
other words, social media. 00:17:11
The city is good at doing that. 00:17:17
We've never had this here, but if necess. 00:17:23
We can remove a person if orderly conduct of the meeting is seriously compromised. 00:17:26
I've seen that twice in my 30 years of attending City Council meetings and that was enough. 00:17:31
It's uncomfortable. 00:17:37
One time, the mayor tried to do it himself. 00:17:39
Swear emotions he he just thought it was his job. 00:17:44
You know so. 00:17:50
Anyway, let's not go that. 00:17:54
Don't worry. 00:17:56
I don't have to worry about that. Justin here with us. 00:17:59
And somebody watch me get. 00:18:03
Some animation you're meeting, pal. 00:18:05
That's the lot. Nobody wants to see that. 00:18:11
We do do electronic meetings from time to time, and those are specifically authorized by your ordinance. The city can't conduct an 00:18:15
electronic meeting unless you have an ordinance. 00:18:18
You do it. It spells out the things we have to do. 00:18:23
We need to do that from an anchor location and you need to understand that if we do an electronic meeting, there has to be a way. 00:18:28
For the. 00:18:34
To attend either electronically or in person to. 00:18:36
And if there is participation required in the meeting, there has to be a means for that. 00:18:40
Council members have to be able to participate in an electronic meeting. 00:18:45
You can't be in a situation where you're just. 00:18:49
You have to be able to participate. 00:18:53
We have to keep minutes of all of our meetings, and what's interesting is the written minutes of your meetings are the official 00:18:56
record of your meetings. 00:18:59
You're also required under. 00:19:03
Should record your. 00:19:06
Both of those records are retained perpetually. 00:19:08
Forever. 00:19:12
The recording is not the official record of your meeting in the minutes are. 00:19:14
We've not had a situation here where. 00:19:19
Had to, I guess, confront the recording that is different than the written meds. That's uncomfortable when it happens. I finished 00:19:21
it before and lost it context, and I don't ever want to do that again. I'm grateful for Stephanie and the people who do their jobs 00:19:26
well, so we don't ever have to think about that. 00:19:31
Stephanie is aware of the. 00:19:36
Technical requirements of what needs to be in your minutes. 00:19:38
You don't need to worry about it. One of the things I would just say and we don't have this issue here, but sometimes. 00:19:41
I've seen councils try to use the approval of the. 00:19:46
As a way to change what they. 00:19:50
That's not what the approval of the Minutes is for. 00:19:52
Is to approve the record what happened in the meeting. 00:19:55
And if in fact you said something you didn't mean to, I'm sorry. 00:20:00
It's memorialized now. 00:20:04
There will be other chances, I think always for you to explain that. 00:20:07
To put context to it, but. 00:20:11
The place to do it in the approval mass. 00:20:13
Your recordings can't be edited after. 00:20:18
Haven't seen anybody tried that. 00:20:22
So they don't. That recording, by the way, has to be made available. 00:20:24
That same requirement does consist with your minutes. You have to act expediently to approve those and make them available. 00:20:29
And draft minutes have to be available. 00:20:34
As soon as they. 00:20:36
That your recording is within three days. 00:20:38
We can close meetings for very, very limited purposes. We've never had issues with that here. 00:20:41
Those requirements are stated in the Open and Public Meetings Act really clearly. 00:20:46
Go ahead step. 00:20:50
Those are the purposes right there, that discussion of an individual's character, professional competence, of physical and mental 00:20:52
health. 00:20:55
Does not extend to any discussion about personnel issues if you want to talk about creating a position. 00:20:58
If you want to talk about eliminating a position and it's not based on somebody'd character. 00:21:04
For professional conf. 00:21:10
Those are closed meeting. 00:21:12
So we're we're careful about that and try not to push the. 00:21:14
And we have a service that does our. 00:21:19
I need some. I do some of them, some. 00:21:22
Length of the weather, what the topic is. 00:21:28
Can I ask a question about deployment security measures? 00:21:32
Yes. 00:21:36
So where you might locate cameras? 00:21:38
On your building, the kind of door locks you may. 00:21:41
For instance, we've had discussions at certain times about what we might do with the Justice Court and how we might secure that. 00:21:45
All of those discussions can be done in a closed meeting and reasons obviously we're trying to protect. 00:21:51
Put our secrets out there so somebody can use them against us. 00:21:57
That's what that. 00:22:00
Some of the things we cannot do in a closed meeting that we all wish we could do. One is interview appointees, potential 00:22:04
appointees for elected offices and others there's council vacancy. 00:22:09
It would be really nice if the council could, in private discuss all those people who want to fill those roles. 00:22:14
And then figure out how to fill. You can't do that legally. 00:22:19
You can, however, do an interview in a closed session for. 00:22:26
An appointed position of the. 00:22:30
It's not an appointment to an elected position, so a city manager, a department head. 00:22:32
Those things can be discussed in closed. 00:22:38
And the law makes that distinction because those folks often are leaving underemployment. 00:22:40
And we don't want to subject their interest in your. 00:22:45
We generally record our closed. 00:22:51
Even though they are not. 00:22:54
We record those because the law requires it and there have been times where I've had to submit those recordings to a court. 00:22:57
Minutes are allowed. 00:23:04
And if taken there under the same requirement for the details, you would use for regular minutes. 00:23:06
Those recordings and minutes are permanently retained like any other, like an open meeting. 00:23:11
We do not record our discussions about the character of professional competence or the physical and health. 00:23:16
Or those security? 00:23:22
Instead what we do is. 00:23:25
The mayor or the presiding officer who was in the closed meeting signing affidavit and. 00:23:27
Curtailed our discussion to just those subjects. 00:23:33
And that's why we didn't record that portion. 00:23:36
So sometimes in a closed meeting, if it closed for two purposes, we'll record part and then we won't record another part. 00:23:39
That's normal and that's in accordance with the. 00:23:45
You can call emergency meetings with less than 24 hours notice. There's no. 00:23:49
Definition in the law of what an emergency means. 00:23:54
I haven't seen that abused very often. Once in a while I have. It's been. 00:23:59
That's quickly. 00:24:05
So that's just not a place where we try to personalize. I don't think we've ever had one. 00:24:08
Have we had any appoint somebody? 00:24:16
Yeah. 00:24:18
Brett was the most recent appointment, was he? I think that all has to be open, open and out the public. We can't go anything 00:24:22
closed session. 00:24:26
So when we if we have a need for emergency meeting? 00:24:33
Two members of the council or the mayor? 00:24:37
Call an emergency meeting. 00:24:39
You must make an attempt to notify all members of the council. You must do everything you can to give them notice. The best notice 00:24:41
tractable is the step short language. 00:24:45
But if there's an easy means of notes and you haven't done it, you. 00:24:49
Undermine. 00:24:52
And a majority of the members must approve the meeting. 00:24:54
If someone says I didn't get accurate notes and then they show up, they wake their. 00:24:57
Objection. So. 00:25:02
It's kind of a. 00:25:03
If you all happen to. 00:25:05
Wedding reception of one of your children you are not. 00:25:07
You have not violated the Open Public Meetings Act unless you choose to use that occasion to necessity business. So I'll. 00:25:11
So there are four of them are going to. 00:25:19
We do notice that, and we do that out of caution and out of transparency. 00:25:23
Technically, that is not something where it's. 00:25:31
A meeting within the strict definition of the Open Public Meetings Act, but it's fuzzy enough that we think it's best to always 00:25:35
notice those, and we always will. 00:25:38
I just think it's the best of. 00:25:43
I would encourage you not to use that occasion to huddle and talk. 00:25:45
Secret city business that you don't want to subject. 00:25:49
Violations of the Open Public Meetings Act now that are intentional or Class B misdemeanors. 00:25:54
They can't subject you to six months in jail and $1000. 00:25:58
To do that. 00:26:02
This is where I see most of the violations. The Acts now specifically prohibits you from using electronic means to message each 00:26:05
other during a meeting. 00:26:09
So if you're sitting on the dash, you cannot send text messages to each other. 00:26:15
The violation of the act. You cannot send emails. 00:26:19
You can't use other mess. 00:26:22
Apps just can't do it. 00:26:25
That's just during the meeting. 00:26:28
Yeah. 00:26:31
Yes. 00:26:33
The ACT does not restrict you. 00:26:35
Texting someone else. 00:26:38
During the meeting, don't do. 00:26:41
It's bad for him and people. 00:26:43
When you're driving, you see somebody texting. 00:26:47
It's just as easy when you're on the dice. 00:26:51
So I just would avoid that. 00:26:54
There is an interesting interplay. 00:26:58
This part of the Open Public Meetings Act and. 00:27:00
Because those text messages you might be sending during the meeting to a member of the public. 00:27:03
Are a public record. 00:27:10
They're not prohibited by the Open and Public Meeting executive. 00:27:12
Had enough information to make a reasonably specific request. 00:27:16
Your text messages would. 00:27:20
So it's important for you to think about your communications now in a bigger, broader role. 00:27:23
You have a city e-mail address. Just use that and don't use your private. 00:27:30
All of your communications on city issues from whatever e-mail address or texting program or anything else you use. 00:27:35
Are technically public? 00:27:42
So your message is to a spouse or a child are not a public record. 00:27:44
Unless you're talking about city business. 00:27:50
And then that. 00:27:53
So please be wise about. 00:27:54
Use your messaging capabilities. 00:27:57
Use your city e-mail address. 00:28:01
And I would tell you every just use that exclusively for everything related to the city. 00:28:05
I want to talk a little bit about public hearings tonight. 00:28:16
We start, and I do this and I did it a little bit of hesitancy because the city hasn't had an issue, I don't think. I think our 00:28:20
public hearings are generally conducted well and done right and done. 00:28:25
With wisdom and prudence and I think. 00:28:31
Fair. I think you're courteous to the public. I really haven't seen issues. 00:28:35
But we start from the premise that residents of the city have a right to be heard. That right can be. 00:28:39
I don't want to say curtailed, but it can be confined. 00:28:45
In certain. 00:28:49
It is perfectly appropriate for us to put time limits on the public. 00:28:51
And their presentations to the Council. 00:28:55
And I know sometimes that can be sensitive. 00:28:57
For some people when they hear that, but I want you to understand and remember. 00:29:00
You have an obligation to the entire public, not just the one who's standing at the dice. 00:29:05
Lectern at. 00:29:09
And I think the public has as much right. 00:29:12
To an orderly. 00:29:15
As they have to be. 00:29:18
So I think putting some limits on that public presentation is perfectly appropriate. 00:29:21
I would emphasize this 1000 times if I could. 00:29:28
You are not required to respond to questions or comments from the public during a public hearing. 00:29:33
And I would tell you, as a general rule, I strongly prefer that you not. 00:29:38
Respond the questions or comments that are offered during public hearing, and the mayor has been fantastic about telling people. 00:29:42
We normally don't respond. 00:29:49
To questions or comments during a public hearing and we don't open this up as a dialogue. 00:29:51
This is a chance for you to tell us what you. 00:29:56
You will hear what we think and do time. Trust me. 00:29:59
You will hear us, but he's been really great about explaining that. 00:30:02
Those moments of dialog. 00:30:06
Evolve into chaos so quickly. 00:30:10
And they are hard to control. 00:30:14
It's a point where we lose control of meetings so quickly. 00:30:16
Not just from a time standpoint, but. 00:30:19
Perception. 00:30:22
So we really prefer that you not open yourself up to dialogue during the public hearing. 00:30:23
On land use decisions. 00:30:30
We generally will hear from the staff and sometimes the applicant prior to the public addressing us in a public hearing online use 00:30:31
application. 00:30:35
At the end, we frequently give the applicant a write. 00:30:40
To address what is said during the public. 00:30:43
That strikes the public as wrong, often on controversial applications. 00:30:46
It may be difficult for some of you. 00:30:51
But I think we can put it in a legal context that makes it a little more practical. 00:30:54
All of those neighbors should have something to say, have an interest in what's happening in the neighborhoods. But they don't 00:30:59
have a constitutional right. 00:31:02
To what happens? 00:31:06
There is no constitutional right to control what happens on your neighbor's property. 00:31:09
There is. 00:31:13
They have property rights. 00:31:16
So giving them a chance to respond to the public comment at the end. 00:31:17
Gives a little boost to the due process of our hearings. 00:31:21
And I think it's practical and a good way to go. 00:31:25
Plus, we trust your. 00:31:28
Right. When you've heard from the public, when you're familiar with an application, When you hear an applicant if there's. 00:31:30
The reason to maybe call BS on something. 00:31:37
We trust. 00:31:40
And we know that you're able to do that without being confrontational. 00:31:42
And without causing problems. So we generally have followed that process because we think it's. 00:31:46
An appearance and a practical fairness that helps. 00:31:53
The way we approach things. 00:31:57
Is perfectly reasonable for you don't have a public comment to a certain amount of time. 00:31:59
3 minutes has kind of become. 00:32:03
In most local communities, and I think that's. 00:32:05
When? 00:32:09
Really, really contentious applications that have a lot of broad public interest. 00:32:10
It is perfectly fine if you feel like you need to limit that to something less than 3 minutes. 00:32:16
People can tell you how they feel about a project in 3 minutes or less. 00:32:21
I'm confident they could do that. 00:32:26
So Todd, one other question about that. So we can limit the time individual speaks and you can limit the entire time you will 00:32:28
spend on a public hearing. 00:32:35
If you choose to. 00:32:43
We do that with some caution, right? We may look at an item that's got some controversy to it and say we're only going to spend 40 00:32:44
minutes in the public hearing on this item. 00:32:48
Legally appropriate? 00:32:52
As long as it's a reasonable time frame. 00:32:54
When we were doing the redevelopment of the Cottonwood. 00:32:57
We did put a restriction like that and I thought that. 00:33:00
Difficult in the moment, but why is in the big picture right? 00:33:04
We could have, we could have said we're going to spend 2 hours tonight in the public hearing on this. To me, two hours probably 00:33:08
would have been. 00:33:11
On the edge. 00:33:14
That you can do. 00:33:17
It's fine. How long do they? 00:33:18
We started at about 6:30 and we were there till 11:30. 00:33:23
Selected. 00:33:32
Yeah. 00:33:35
We don't let people just cat. 00:33:37
From the audience, speakers in a public hearing have to be recognized by. 00:33:41
Is it important on that? 00:33:46
Do not allow people to go over so that it doesn't. 00:33:49
Fairness to Sure. And obviously that's a matter of sort of discretion and judgment, right? 00:33:55
In every public hearing, you're not going to be as strict as you are and. 00:34:01
We had a big clock up during the Cottonwood Mall hearings and we did anybody pay attention to it? 00:34:04
Relatively aggressive about enforcing it. 00:34:13
There is a balance there, obviously, right? You don't want to appear too heavy-handed, but I think there's some wisdom in. 00:34:17
You know, making good decisions. 00:34:24
This says speakers must state their name and address for the record. They don't have to, but we do that as a matter of practice, 00:34:26
and it is important for the records of. 00:34:30
The city that they do. 00:34:34
There isn't actually a legal. 00:34:36
We asked them to limit their comments to things that are pertinent to the hearing. 00:34:42
And we avoid personal attacks. The mayor has been great about setting those ground rules and keeping them. And like I say, you 00:34:45
really don't have issues with your. 00:34:48
So. 00:34:52
You know one thing I think we have. 00:34:56
Did a pretty good job of keeping our public. 00:34:58
Focused and. 00:35:02
Explain what their issues are, but I will say that if a Council member is not, what we try to avoid is. 00:35:05
Is entering an argumentative dialogue. 00:35:11
But like you're offended by something they say and then you want. 00:35:15
Get into it with a very public hearing, which we tried to avoid, but if somebody's up there getting public comment. 00:35:20
And you're not clear or you don't understand. 00:35:27
What they're trying to communicate, I think it's perfectly appropriate. 00:35:31
But we all usually typically believe in with look. We usually don't. 00:35:34
Engage in this. This is your time. But I'm not sure I'm. 00:35:39
Of what it is you're saying, or what you're trying to communicate? 00:35:43
I think that's totally fine to make sure you understand. 00:35:47
What that Res. 00:35:50
Trying to get at during their. 00:35:52
I think. 00:35:54
Yeah. So one of the situations that I think is the toughest is as an elected official. 00:35:56
I think you. 00:36:03
If you don't, you maybe should have an expectation that you might be lobbied, for lack of a better term. 00:36:05
On certain issues, they hit the. 00:36:11
And when we have. 00:36:13
Land use issues, for instance, that have property rights at their base and. 00:36:16
Really important fairness. 00:36:21
Component to our. 00:36:23
There's always a question. 00:36:26
Where is the line? 00:36:28
In that lob. 00:36:30
Thing in a land use application. 00:36:31
Want to talk about some specific scenarios and just? 00:36:34
See and if I will go into this saying if you're asking how far the line is and how close can I go, we're probably asking the wrong 00:36:37
question. 00:36:41
So again, our act establishes a minimum standard. 00:36:46
So these are the disclosure. 00:36:53
Kind of guidelines that we've talked about. 00:36:56
That anymore. 00:36:59
Oh, you cannot commit crimes you could commit before you were elected. Congratulations, Emily. 00:37:01
But that's what I'm going for, the privileges. 00:37:06
All right, so specific scenarios. 00:37:15
Development company company has a result application pending for the city. 00:37:18
First thoughts? 00:37:23
Click it again. 00:37:25
What's the best answer? 00:37:32
The conflict and leads, the dies and don't participate in discussions. That's what I. 00:37:36
Best answer Clear and unequivocal. That's not hard. 00:37:42
This is where it's actually hard. 00:37:48
You're at church for a long time. Friend is developing his family's doctor, not a professional developer. 00:37:50
Just somebody in the community, right? 00:37:55
Stopped by your house for a friendly visit the evening before the council stack on his application. He's on his property. What do 00:37:57
you do? 00:38:00
There are easy answers in our head when this actually happens to you. 00:38:04
Right, and make it as sympathetic as you can. 00:38:08
You know. 00:38:12
Neighbor not sophisticated. 00:38:15
Just trying to do first family, what's the best, right? 00:38:18
So they show up at your house on your. 00:38:21
Usually unannounced, right? They certainly wouldn't call before. 00:38:24
So what do you do? 00:38:28
C. 00:38:33
Yeah. 00:38:45
I mean my option would be up there, I would probably say. 00:38:47
It's really not appropriate for me as an elected official to really be having a private conversation. 00:38:52
We probably shouldn't be talking. 00:39:00
I just don't like the invite and believe. 00:39:04
Yeah, that's true. 00:39:09
Yeah. 00:39:12
These things are hard and they'll happen to you. They'll happen in your house. They'll happen in the hallways of the church or 00:39:14
school. 00:39:17
Grocery store. 00:39:19
Or somewhere, and I think it's important that you. 00:39:21
Have your reaction ready and your script ready. 00:39:24
Right. And your shirt may change depending on who it is. 00:39:29
Kind of depends on the nature of the issue. 00:39:32
Talking about city issues. 00:39:36
This has this one is a personal zone. This gets very. 00:39:39
Right nitty gritty, but but generally you want to have people come talk to you about. 00:39:45
If we're done. 00:39:51
You're talking about a broad ordinance change that affects the whole community, right? Yeah, several years ago, the tree ordinance 00:39:54
was a big deal in this in this city, right? Right. 00:39:57
Yeah, Those discussions are and and that's a place where I think your expectation of maybe being for lack of a term LOB. 00:40:02
And like. 00:40:09
Approached and spoken with about these issues. 00:40:10
I do think that's your role. Yeah. Broader policy is, yes, we want to be able to have those conversations. The difference is this 00:40:15
is a specific person in a rezoning that's only affecting them, not and their neighbors, potentially, right? Well, yeah, yes. But 00:40:20
that's the situation. 00:40:25
I just think it's important in your mind that you sort of know how you're going to react to these things and my advice is to. 00:40:33
Not have the conversations with the applications. 00:40:40
The boiler property. 00:40:46
Yes, she, you know, she contacted me about that. 00:40:47
I don't see that necessarily as a land use. 00:40:53
I saw that as a resident who. 00:40:56
A specific issue with the city that she was trying to get the resolution right. It was it was a different kind of thing. 00:40:59
Problems within your district? 00:41:07
I think that people are certainly going to approach you about. 00:41:09
Right and. 00:41:12
We're trusting in your filter. 00:41:15
To know when they're significant and they warrant being brought to staff's attention. 00:41:18
The way that they were discussed with you. 00:41:24
And we also trust your judgment to. 00:41:26
When you that, you always need to talk to staff about those things and how they get you know. 00:41:30
Handled, addressed, and sometimes escalated to the right place. Right so. 00:41:37
That having in your mind how you're going to deal with these situations I think is really critical. I wouldn't have done any of 00:41:42
these either there. 00:41:45
This is not the way I would have handled any of these and. 00:41:50
I would have probably told him what you would say. This isn't something I can discuss right now. 00:41:55
Our council just doesn't do that. 00:42:00
And so. 00:42:05
Let me tell you ways that you might be able to communicate. 00:42:06
The entire council about your issue and give them their options. Send us an e-mail. 00:42:09
Make sure you show up at these meetings that are important on your property. Here's the status of the application. 00:42:15
And here would be an appropriate way to get your opinion in front of the Council. 00:42:21
So the fact that. 00:42:27
Longtime friend, whoever really has nothing to do with it. Is that true? I really don't think it does now. I mean, you're 00:42:30
interpersonal relationships are going to be different. They just are practically right. You're going to treat different than 00:42:34
somebody who's just. 00:42:37
An acquaintance, but they legally they make no difference at all. But so for example this. 00:42:41
Controversial parcel at Summary Hollywood. I received phone calls about that. Should I be telling people I can't talk to you about 00:42:46
that? Is that what we're saying? What I think I would say is I would love to hear your input, but it's better if I do it in the 00:42:51
public context. 00:42:55
Here's what helps me. Can you send me an e-mail that I can forward on to the rest of the council members so we're all operating on 00:43:00
the same information? 00:43:03
There's a public hearing on this state. Will you please make sure you come? 00:43:07
And provide your input there. 00:43:10
And sometimes I. 00:43:12
I think this is a little bit dangerous, but with some people judgment, it's helpful that if they understand why it's not good if 00:43:15
you have a lot of conversation. 00:43:19
Right. It's helpful. 00:43:24
If I have this conversation with. 00:43:26
Then I'm getting information that the rest of the council may not be. 00:43:29
Some of that may be really significant and. 00:43:33
You're trusting me to relay that instead of you relaying that in the way you want to as. 00:43:36
More appropriate if you relay that information to the entire Council. 00:43:41
Then everybody's working off the. 00:43:47
Sheet of music. 00:43:49
I think that helps. The other thing is there just is a public perception about government. 00:43:52
And even though as an elected official, there should be an expectation about. 00:43:59
People lobbying you when it gets to these land use issues in particular and it really is focused in this context, right? 00:44:04
When it gets to these. 00:44:10
People look at that and think that the mind's being solved. 00:44:12
Or there's something nefarious. 00:44:16
You know decisions are being made under the table. 00:44:17
There's an appearance issue that we can't fix with some of these things. 00:44:20
Yeah. And you do obviously act differently when somebody's really close to you, at least the way you communicate it, but I think. 00:44:24
Having a consistent commun. 00:44:32
A good thing? 00:44:35
Sorry, I don't mean to dwell on this isn't tough because it is. Well, you look like Ron Hilton, for example. And yeah. 00:44:37
I guess it just doesn't. 00:44:45
Is there are we talking about? Is this a best practice or is there this is the best practice? I will tell you I cannot find in 00:44:48
the. 00:44:51
A case where. 00:44:56
And elected officials. 00:44:58
Has been found illegal just for the sake of the communication itself, right? 00:45:03
I have seen cases. 00:45:08
Their communications have undermined the. 00:45:10
In some way, but they're kind of extreme in their fact patterns, right when it's the normal, this is what I think, this is what I 00:45:13
feel. 00:45:16
This is what I wish you would. 00:45:19
I can't tell you There's a legal case that says that's in that makes the process invalid and it invalidates the city decision. 00:45:21
That's not it. 00:45:25
But I can also. 00:45:31
When the approach is taken, it says I'm really glad you called. Here's the way. I need you to get your input into the record. 00:45:33
Working through me isn't the most appropriate way. Here's the way that I want you to do it. 00:45:40
That's never her decision process. 00:45:46
And I've never seen a case that suggested it does so. 00:45:48
It is uncomfortable in interpersonal relationships in the way we relate to People sometimes take that approach with these things. 00:45:52
That I'm suggesting to you if you think ahead of your mind and you have your script, so to speak. 00:45:59
And you always handle it that. 00:46:05
Long run, it's probably going to be better for you, better for the city, and I think we'll get better decisions out of the City 00:46:07
Council. 00:46:10
Yeah, The hard thing is, it feels like you're not response as a representative. It feels like you're not response, right. And 00:46:14
that. 00:46:18
Pay them off. 00:46:22
And especially. 00:46:24
Questions where they want to know things or that kind of thing. 00:46:28
I don't know. I have a hard time. 00:46:32
I understand that and I. 00:46:35
And so just refer to staff is essentially what you would say. Well, I don't know that I was just referring to staff, but I would 00:46:38
ask them to make sure they put questions and comments and everything else in writing. 00:46:43
So and forward it to you that so that you can forward them on to the rest of the Council. 00:46:49
I don't mind them being forwarded to you so you can forward them on. I think that's fine. It makes sense directly to the city's 00:46:53
great. But I think from a standpoint of wanting to be responsive, it's great if you understand them to you, as long as you do 00:46:59
forward them right and they get into the public domain. Sometimes people have process questions. 00:47:04
Right, so I don't mind you answering process questions. 00:47:11
I really don't, but it can be hard to draw that line too, so. 00:47:15
To me, this is the most difficult situation that you would be faced. 00:47:20
As a council member with. 00:47:26
So I would really just encourage you to reach out to either me or Todd if these situations present. 00:47:28
All right. 00:47:38
Every council member has a situation where they just. 00:47:49
It's so hard to draw the lines in those differential communications. 00:47:53
You do want to be respons. 00:47:57
I mean, we get it, but the other thing we trust is that you're going to make sure the information gets present. 00:47:58
Sure. That's the most important part. That's the big picture critical part. Sure. 00:48:03
So, and I guess just make sure when you forward those emails that you include me 'cause then I become part of the public comment 00:48:07
or part of the record. So but we shouldn't necessarily forward it to the council, maybe forward it. 00:48:12
Communication and record dissemination and everything else works better if you do it that way as opposed to you pushing. 00:48:21
You know. 00:48:29
Sorry, I don't mean to like just harp on this. I'm just logistically trying to see how this all works. 00:48:31
Because I'm thinking about your situation, where you're talking to people that you obviously know really well, there's a point 00:48:39
where you can. 00:48:41
You can't just sit and listen to them and then say I totally hear you. 00:48:44
But I need this. 00:48:49
This is writing, see. I mean is that. I mean, I realize that might be splitting hairs, but I just there's some people who. 00:48:51
You don't just keep talking. 00:48:56
Yeah, right. And so much of what they want, you're obviously frustrated to want a solution, but they also really want to be heard, 00:48:59
yeah, by the representative and I. 00:49:04
There are lots of ways to handle it and. 00:49:10
People are going to talk sometimes, right? And it's hard to interrupt. 00:49:13
I get that and practically. 00:49:17
One of the things. 00:49:19
Hold, my council members are saying. 00:49:21
The whole City Council has to make this decision because it's in my district or because I'm familiar with the issue. It's not just 00:49:24
me that's making the decision. 00:49:28
And it's important that the whole council hear what you have to. 00:49:31
And I don't. 00:49:35
To have you rely on me to present that. 00:49:37
So there's two options we have. One, there's a public hearing. 00:49:41
On the issue of this day. 00:49:44
Please come or two, send me an e-mail. 00:49:46
With all this that I can then make sure the whole Council sees. 00:49:51
So it sounds like what you're saying is really you're presenting it in a way like this is how I'm being an advocate or 00:49:55
representative of you, by getting your helping you learn how you can get this information to the entire place because the whole 00:50:00
council that needs it. 00:50:05
It's really going to be a disservice to use. 00:50:12
Right. 00:50:15
And you will have people say that I hate. 00:50:18
You can say, I'm sorry, send me an e-mail. 00:50:22
It's important to get the information out. 00:50:25
OK. 00:50:27
Developers plan to rezone property you're unfamiliar with. The property of the surrounding neighborhood developer invites you to 00:50:35
visit the property for a tour. 00:50:38
OK, so. 00:50:43
Right. 00:50:48
I would. I used to do a lot of condemnation or basic and have property for a couple candies. That was a big part of my practice. 00:50:50
And the worst thing in the world for me was finally see what that ever having seen the piece of property, right? 00:50:59
I needed to see the ground and understand what we were taking and everything around it. It was always so important. You're in the 00:51:04
same place, right? You're making decisions on the property. 00:51:08
If you're not familiar. 00:51:13
The issue for me here is. 00:51:16
Walking alongside a developer. 00:51:18
As you view the proper. 00:51:21
If it's just a one on. 00:51:23
That's really uncomfortable for me as the ATTOR. 00:51:25
I don't like that at all, so. 00:51:28
You can decline A guidance or you can decline, visit the property yourself and become familiar. Right now, one of the things I 00:51:32
don't want you to do, and we had planning Commissioner a few years ago to do this. 00:51:37
She took her own tour of private property. 00:51:43
So don't do that either. 00:51:47
Conduct your examination from public places. If you're going to go just or get permission, yeah. 00:51:50
Permissions created as long as they understand. I really don't watch over my shoulder, you know? 00:51:57
I think the best thing you can do is. 00:52:04
If they want you to see the property say, well, how about? 00:52:09
The whole council. 00:52:13
And then we notice it. Yep, right. And then we notice it. 00:52:14
You know, if you're not familiar with the property, I hate you to look at somebody say, you know, trying to not get in the 00:52:20
situation, say, Oh no, I'm familiar with it, I want you to do that. Obviously that doesn't ever help you. 00:52:25
But I think you can say as a council we generally don't take one-on-one tours. 00:52:31
With a property like this. 00:52:36
I will familiarize myself with the property if I have any questions. 00:52:38
I'll be able to ask you when your application is presented to us. 00:52:42
Those kind of things are appropriate. 00:52:45
Just, you know, we'll just take. 00:52:47
So that leads to this issue that's coming up next week. Do we all need? 00:52:51
Find a way to like. 00:52:56
Go and visit the property between that and next Thursday. I think that's one of the people could drive by on their own and I think 00:52:58
it would be official for. 00:53:02
It is helpful to see everything in context. 00:53:08
I haven't noticed. 00:53:15
Package of correspondence about. 00:53:16
I'm fairly blind to just vague references, that's all I'm getting. 00:53:18
Information. 00:53:24
It won't be. 00:53:25
It will not be big after that. 00:53:29
So this one actually just came up a few weeks ago in a different city. 00:53:33
Member of the council. Worked as a bookkeeper for Father's electrical company. 00:53:37
Part time paid hourly. 00:53:40
Noticing. 00:53:45
Her dad's company was working on the largest development project in the city at that time. Perhaps it would be like the Holiday 00:53:46
Hills project. 00:53:49
It wasn't directed to the developer, but to a contractor working for the developer. 00:53:53
Is there? 00:53:58
No. 00:54:01
This one, to me technically, is not legally a conflict of interest. 00:54:06
What I advise the Council member to do and. 00:54:10
Thankfully, my partner and I were on the same page because. 00:54:13
She checked my advice. 00:54:17
But we advised her to make the disclosure. There's zero harm in the disclosure. 00:54:22
No arm in the disclosure, but not legal conflict and she's gone ahead, participated in the decisions. 00:54:27
So it cures so much, right? 00:54:33
So those are just some things for you to think about. If you have any questions, please feel free to shoot an e-mail or call. 00:54:38
Happy to talk to you anytime about these things. 00:54:45
Specific questions are taking too much time. I told you I didn't think I could squeeze 20 minutes. 00:54:48
OK. 00:54:59
Any questions for? 00:55:01
All right, moving right along then. Fraud train checklist. This is in your packet. This is the score sheet that the state requires 00:55:04
us to fill out anything. 00:55:08
Gina preparedness I did as required by law, once a year. 00:55:14
The state to. 00:55:21
Ensure that all governmental abuse the governing bodies have an idea of the risk of fraud in the organization. 00:55:23
That you represent, so you'll probably see this in other organizations. 00:55:34
Our checklist is exactly the same as it was last year. We scored 320 points, which puts us in the low risk category. 00:55:41
I think part of these two is. 00:55:52
Unless I'm mistaken, Gina. 00:55:55
We're on the smaller end. 00:55:58
Of. 00:56:01
Fill these out and a lot of it is. 00:56:03
Not having the kind of staff that would allow you to do some of these things that we don't score well on. 00:56:06
It's not that we don't want to do it, it's probably. 00:56:11
It's hard for us. I think that's right. I mean, I'll give you an example. Does the entity have a formal internal audit function 00:56:14
that's worth 20? 00:56:19
We do not have an internal audit function. 00:56:24
I worked previously in a city with 3000 employees. That city did not have an internal audit. 00:56:28
So I don't think. 00:56:35
We're not unusual in that respect. 00:56:38
In that respect. 00:56:42
We don't have a fraud hotline. 00:56:47
I'm surprised that SAGE doesn't have a hotline. Wouldn't that be a good idea? 00:56:51
Sessions come over. 00:56:57
So any questions about? 00:57:08
Our internal control processes. 00:57:11
And since it came about, we did improve our score on that bottom when we added an audit committee and. 00:57:14
So we've done what we the low hanging fruit we've taken care of and there are a couple of things that we, I am hoping we can do 00:57:21
this spring. So there's a section and Stephanie, if you can go up just a little bit. 00:57:27
There's a section that asks about policies that the governing body has adopted. 00:57:33
There are a couple that we could We could get 10 more points for adopting a policy about computer security. 00:57:40
And then we have a cash receiving at deposit policy, but you haven't adopted that. So I think those are two things we could do 00:57:47
pretty easily. That was one. 00:57:52
Questions about a few years ago. 00:57:58
We were. We did take credit cards. That has since changed. 00:58:00
And. 00:58:06
Cash coming into the city, which worried me a little bit. Has that diminished dramatically, Dramatically I would pursue, yeah. 00:58:07
The amount of cash coming in, it's gone way, way down. 00:58:16
That worried me a little bit, but I assume that you take credit cards now. 00:58:19
That's I think the last time John and I talked about building the permits, everything that runs through your department, I think 00:58:23
94% something like that. 00:58:29
So the council did set a policy, I think an upper limit limit, of $10,000 on credit card transactions. 00:58:39
I don't think we've run into that issue very often. 00:58:53
OK. 00:59:04
All right. I'm not going to. I'm just going to keep going unless somebody stops. 00:59:07
Council policy. This is in our packet too. This is all pretty straightforward stuff. 00:59:13
So there may be some things. 00:59:18
Point out or if there are questions, if you've gone through the Council. 00:59:21
Policies. 00:59:25
It just. 00:59:28
Boilerplate on how we operate and what's appropriate and not appropriate. 00:59:31
I know the discussion we. 00:59:36
Typically have. Usually centers around. 00:59:38
Our engagement with staff and what's appropriate and not appropriate in terms of how we. 00:59:42
Communicate with staff. I don't know, Gina, if you want to, Yeah, I'll just highlight that. And that's in Section 11. 00:59:47
Basically in our city, and I think this does differ in from city to city, but in our city. 00:59:55
Feel free to reach out to staff if you have a quick question. 01:00:03
A request for information. 01:00:09
Under. 01:00:12
If it's going to be longer than an hour in terms of. 01:00:14
How long it's going to take to produce the information that you're looking for. 01:00:19
Or if you have what you think would be a great assignment for that staff member to do. 01:00:24
In those situations, please come to me because that that helps keep our workload balance. 01:00:31
And it also helps us move in the direction of the Council as a whole and not. 01:00:37
The direction that. 01:00:44
And again, as Todd said, that has not been a problem here for at least the last. 01:00:48
But it can't be a problem. 01:00:57
Council members who might have a different direction than the capital. 01:00:59
What if we don't? I remember this with my husband. I think I'm asking something that's really straightforward and. 01:01:06
I learned that what I'm asking is much more expensive. Is I mean. 01:01:14
Should we filter that through you, or should if we ask staff to do something and they're like this is actually a big thing, well, 01:01:19
they just come back and just say. 01:01:22
No, it's fine. 01:01:27
And that I mean from my perspective concern that I have and appreciate being CC on things because you can say fantastic and I 01:01:31
think their inclination is to say of course I'll do this and I'm going to spend the next three days doing that. 01:01:39
But then you could jump in exactly perfect. 01:01:49
Yeah, I talked to Gina. That's a tough one for me because I tried to balance. 01:01:53
You know, I don't want to overload her inbox either, and. 01:01:59
A lot of people go to John directly because. 01:02:04
And I do that quite a bit, but usually it's pretty small stuff I think. 01:02:08
I think I know when it's going to require more than. 01:02:13
Then you know but. 01:02:17
It's a tough issue and I hate to just. 01:02:19
CC you and. 01:02:22
Yeah, anyway. 01:02:24
But yeah, our council's been usually, I think, unless I'm. 01:02:27
My assumption is because I. 01:02:32
Never had to deal with this in 10 years. 01:02:34
Is that probably usually involves some kind of. 01:02:37
Council member that has an axe to grind with the city manager or the mayor and wants to go directly to staff and we just never had 01:02:42
that. 01:02:46
Situation our Council has always been. 01:02:50
Aware of. 01:02:56
Doing editor rounds and taking up too much of staff's time, I think, and we just want to keep it that way. 01:02:57
And I think it's really import. 01:03:05
I don't have to say to this council, I'm going to say it. 01:03:07
I represent Gina represents the whole staff. Represents the entire. 01:03:10
They don't represent one. 01:03:15
And they can't. 01:03:16
Ethically or legally just represent one of you. 01:03:18
If you're going to call me and you want me doing something that's an end around, I can't legally. 01:03:22
Ethically and legally, I can't do that. I represent the entire city, so. 01:03:28
When you when you call and you need something done, Gina's going to know about that. 01:03:33
In really short order, right? 01:03:38
The other side of that. 01:03:41
Have a 5 minute question. 01:03:43
Call. 01:03:46
5 minute questions don't even make the bill. 01:03:47
No ones. 01:03:52
There's carrying anybody's water. Everybody's kind of a generalist and. 01:03:54
Overly passionate about something that makes you want to. 01:03:59
Bust out. 01:04:05
Gina, do we want to talk? 01:04:09
Really same thing about health insurance I think everybody's clear on. 01:04:13
That you do have access to health insurance, you just have to pay for it. But. 01:04:16
I'm on it. 01:04:21
Plan so I. 01:04:23
That opportunity, even though I have to pay for the whole thing, it's still a great deal for. 01:04:25
And so that's enabled everybody. 01:04:30
Want to participate in that? 01:04:34
Kind of check, or have it deducted from your substantial check. 01:04:39
I'm in the same boat. I'm just curious, is there a cabinet? I saw the section 125 reference here. Is there cafeteria? And we 01:04:44
administer it locally, but yeah, you have that option. 01:04:50
Were any daycare or? 01:04:57
Medical like the is it 2 grand a year that you collector that is that kind of thing? 01:05:03
Yeah, I do that with. 01:05:09
Money that I can use. 01:05:11
Before it's taxed. 01:05:13
And then you can use it for reimbursement, which is great. 01:05:15
Quick, one thing I do want to touch on just quick, because I and I have had this discussion about council meetings. 01:05:22
And we went through. 01:05:30
COVID thing where we pivoted to having an anchor location be able to do things remotely and it was like that was nice, but we kind 01:05:32
of arrived as a council, I think. 01:05:37
With the consensus that. 01:05:43
Better off in person, I like being in. 01:05:47
Better than remote, but remote is a great tool. 01:05:51
Under certain circumstances and Pai was traveling quite a bit and. 01:05:55
Should we log in remotely? 01:06:01
My feeling is. 01:06:03
If you're not going to be here, you're traveling for council, I would rather you not log in unless. 01:06:05
It's something that we need you to log in. 01:06:12
If you're traveling, if you're on vacation, I think you should be on vacation. 01:06:16
And we can conduct the business of the Council with a short council. 01:06:20
Unless there's something on there that we feel strongly to. 01:06:27
We really need you to log in for this if you're able to. 01:06:31
But other than that, I would rather if you. 01:06:34
Not going to be here or unless you unless there's something of real interest. You certainly would invite you to log in, but I 01:06:38
would not want you to feel obligated to log in because you're missing council meeting. 01:06:43
I don't know how, if that's changed at all. 01:06:50
The other thing where there happened to people periodically is when they're sick or something. Yeah, yeah, great. I encourage 01:06:58
that. 01:07:02
I believe I got COVID from being in this building all the time. 01:07:09
I don't want your cold either. 01:07:14
So, yeah, but generally, I mean our preference is that we meet personally. 01:07:17
Those other things. 01:07:23
Anything else on policies? No, nothing that I wanted to highlight unless there's something anyone else wants to discuss. 01:07:26
So we'll keep going, then we'll move on to the council liaison. This is an interview discussion. 01:07:37
Gene and I were just gathering a little bit about this before and. 01:07:43
We have liaisons with the schools which are not complicated. Those are pretty simple, but. 01:07:47
We also have these liaisons with the various committees that people serve. 01:07:52
And I think you want to start just by saying, maybe asking what your perception is of that participation, what you see your role 01:07:57
as being. 01:08:01
Just kind of make sure we're on the same machine. 01:08:06
Anybody. Paul, you want to kick it off? Like Sure Well Arts Council. I'm essentially a non voting board member and so I fully 01:08:09
participate in the discussions and the ideas bantering back and forth. I'm a volunteer. I take assignments for Blue Moon Festival. 01:08:17
I'll take a shift for an arts show downstairs. 01:08:26
I'm I'm essentially a member of that board as much as any other board members. 01:08:30
But last follow up where some of the board members like Super Bowl tears may not do everything, but I participate as a board 01:08:36
member. In that case, I'm happy to do that. 01:08:41
Umm, on the other hand, like Rotary and more of a liaison there and I don't jump on board to every volunteer opportunity they put 01:08:48
out there. 01:08:51
They are a service organization whose. 01:08:56
You know, lining up service projects for everybody. 01:08:59
And still being full time employed and now retired, like most of those members. 01:09:02
Have that kind of bandwidth so I could do what I can. 01:09:07
In that scenario. 01:09:10
I try to show up other than last night because. 01:09:12
Superstorm My snow tires aren't as good as Rob's age, so I have to zoom that thing. 01:09:15
But yeah, I just participate as much as I can and report on. 01:09:20
Yeah, and at. 01:09:27
The important things that are noteworthy. 01:09:29
Do you feel like you get adequate support from city staff? Is there anything like city staff to do? 01:09:34
Well, of course Arts Council is extremely well supported with a. 01:09:43
Dedicated to that position historically with Cheryl and now Megan, so. 01:09:47
I'm delighted to see that the historical convention will now get that same sort of support where they haven't before. 01:09:52
So. 01:10:02
I think the other one that I had struggled with, I'm not on now, but when I was the youth council person, that was always 01:10:05
difficult to know how much. 01:10:09
Because there wasn't a staff person. 01:10:14
Who's in charge? I don't have the bandwidth to be in charge, so. 01:10:17
How much do I want to touch this thing where it was something that stuff sticking to me that I just don't have a bandwidth for? 01:10:23
So that one was difficult. 01:10:28
Like a skew of Aiten district that's extremely well run board that's got its own staff and. 01:10:34
That was. 01:10:41
Well supported organization as well as. 01:10:43
When I was on the municipal councils, that was a little more active. I guess it's kind of brought on some hard times, this 01:10:46
pandemic. 01:10:49
But when it was operating well, it was operating with support. 01:10:53
But I've generally had a good experience. It's the only one that scared me for a while was these council ones that seemed to live 01:10:58
loosey goosey. 01:11:01
True. 01:11:09
Well, as long as we're on the Youth Council, it's still a little bit loose because yellow with the addition of one, I think. But I 01:11:12
think, Stephanie, it's. 01:11:16
Thing around a little getting there, yeah, yeah. 01:11:21
The addition. 01:11:26
One is a neighbor of. 01:11:28
And has come in and sort of taken it over, which is which is nice. 01:11:32
Umm. 01:11:37
The Community Renewable Energy Agency board again is, you know, well run and. 01:11:41
I show up at a meeting. 01:11:46
For that board. 01:11:48
Monthly And then I'm on a committee and that's more often. 01:11:50
That's nothing. 01:11:55
Needed from. 01:11:58
On that one so and then the schools I. 01:12:00
Is that it? 01:12:04
So I'm doing. 01:12:09
Happy healthy holiday. 01:12:11
And I would say. 01:12:14
And it's kind of like Paul was describing with the artist today. 01:12:17
I'm kind of there and participating in the. 01:12:21
Discuss and. 01:12:23
Try to support volunteer events and stuff like that. 01:12:26
Holly does a great job of supporting happy, healthy Holiday. 01:12:30
I don't. Is there a regular staff person signing the tree committee? 01:12:33
John is our staff. 01:12:36
And I think you try to attend fairly often. 01:12:40
Guns. And especially if we've ever had. 01:12:44
Specific question for John. He's always been available and been there. 01:12:48
I think in. 01:12:53
My role in the. 01:12:54
It's working great. 01:12:59
I think. 01:13:01
Is struggling a little bit just in terms of. 01:13:03
Kind of reaching critical mass. 01:13:06
Board members and. 01:13:10
Fully engages board members. 01:13:15
I You were one of the people I wondered about, and particularly with that group. 01:13:19
I have heard you report in your Council reports that they have questions about terms and. 01:13:26
I think other things like structural things. 01:13:34
And wonder if that. 01:13:37
Is the process. 01:13:40
Considering a change clearer to you to be support to kind of answer their questions, that would be helpful and maybe maybe even 01:13:43
just having somebody come and talk to them. 01:13:49
Go to the next meetings about that. That's all driven by the concern that people have that. 01:13:54
There isn't really this critical math. There aren't enough. 01:14:00
We've had a couple of really. 01:14:04
Passion and people. 01:14:06
Taking pretty significant roles on the committee, but they're kind of doing a lot of it and some of them are now rotating off and 01:14:09
there's some concern about whether. 01:14:14
Pick up the slack, and does. 01:14:20
Committee have conversations about. 01:14:24
This is what we've done. But this isn't necessarily like we could do education and engagement differently than we've done it. 01:14:27
Did they get to? 01:14:35
And would it be helpful for her? 01:14:38
One of us to have that kind of conversation. Leave that kind of conversation with them. 01:14:40
Do you mean? 01:14:47
Education that they're doing out in the community. Yeah, I mean, one of the questions I have to say this question, it seems like 01:14:49
we have had this conversation frequently with the tree committee and I wonder if. 01:14:55
They're looking for a ton of volunteers. 01:15:01
And it almost seems like their mission is different than. 01:15:04
Been a ton of volunteers like that. 01:15:09
Using the Arts Council as a parallel, they need to come volunteers for the moon. 01:15:13
But not all of those volunteers go to all of their meetings. 01:15:18
Right. And yet there's has been discussion about. 01:15:22
We don't necessarily need more board members. 01:15:26
We sometimes just need more people. 01:15:32
Actively engaged with me that could. 01:15:34
Committee members or volunteers or something like that. Yeah, there have been some discussions about. 01:15:36
There might be and that might be another. 01:15:41
Can I add one thing that I forgot? 01:15:44
As far as the Community Renewable Energy Agency, I really appreciate Holiday Holly, excuse me. 01:15:50
Being involved with that, she is on one of these. She volunteered to be on one of the committees and she's also a great backup if 01:15:57
I can go to. 01:16:01
So I appreciate. 01:16:06
Her role? 01:16:08
As an alternate. 01:16:11
My exper. 01:16:23
Thus far, until last Thursday. 01:16:24
Which I don't know if you agree or not. Like Paul said, it's extremely it's been around for a long time. 01:16:28
Since the 40s maybe? Or something like that. 01:16:38
And it's like totally. 01:16:41
I think it doesn't be completely. 01:16:45
It's great. It's been very educational and good and had an opportunity and stuff like that, but. 01:16:50
So there's just. 01:16:56
Really. 01:16:58
Let's see. 01:17:06
The Association of Municipal Councils. 01:17:08
All said and. 01:17:13
I mean, I do that really as. 01:17:15
Something beneficial for the elected officials so that. 01:17:17
Get an orientation, kind of good overview, you have an opportunity. 01:17:21
Create or to solicit topics to be addressed. 01:17:25
Official. 01:17:32
That's really almost. 01:17:34
Education first. 01:17:36
And then? 01:17:39
That's sorry, I've only been on the two school community councils. 01:17:41
And now on the. 01:17:47
Circle Commission, Circle Commissioner Committee. 01:17:49
So here, so he can tell us who was on that before then. 01:17:55
Dan It's been odd for the last four years. Greg Graham was and he. 01:18:00
We put him. I think that was our first one. 01:18:05
Because we at one point we just had a liaison at the for the Arts Council and then nothing else. 01:18:10
Committees and the historical Commission raised the factory, seemed unfair, and so that was when Brett was. 01:18:19
Anyways, they had the meeting Tuesday, unfortunately. 01:18:29
Business. 01:18:32
Percent of this week, so. 01:18:34
Has anyone felt conflicts between, you know, Todd talked a little bit about those roles? 01:18:38
Anyone felt conflicts between their roles as City Council, Mobile America and on those boards? 01:18:45
I mean, I would say there are times when I. 01:18:54
Feel like I need to rein in the treatment a little bit like. 01:18:58
They would save every tree and holiday weather. 01:19:01
They have a chance in. 01:19:07
I wouldn't have started really so much as a conflict, because maybe. 01:19:12
Just having to be mindful of the role of helping them understand. 01:19:15
Select their situation. 01:19:21
I'm usually a cheerleader on my. 01:19:24
Think bigger. 01:19:26
In my experience these these kinds of committees, there are a few of them that tend to have. 01:19:31
I don't want to be. It sounds pejorative, but sometimes there's issues with these communities kind of standing there. 01:19:38
There can be, and it happens most often. And this is not a holiday issue, this is. 01:19:43
Broad issue in all the cities I've worked in. 01:19:48
Tree. 01:19:52
Historical Committ. 01:19:54
Sometimes have difficulty. 01:19:56
Kind of keeping their focus. 01:19:58
Their ordinance defined. 01:20:01
It's easy. 01:20:05
Yeah, right. That happens. And so. 01:20:08
Your role in. 01:20:12
Committee says liaison can be really valuable. 01:20:13
Even if it's uncomfortable, sometimes it can be really valuable and. 01:20:16
So yeah, I would completely agree with that. I know your family are here. 01:20:20
Comment that he felt uncomfortable at times, you know there was conflict but which he navigated. 01:20:28
Fantastically, but. 01:20:35
I do see that possibility and really wanted to get a sense of whether you were facing that. 01:20:37
Broadly or whether? 01:20:42
I think it. 01:20:44
We talked about. 01:20:45
Usually involves a personality. 01:20:47
You know, on those committees. 01:20:51
So I think you just have to kind of be aware of it, but. 01:20:55
There's some of the committees that really aren't. 01:20:59
Legislatively formed, right. Like the Interfaith Council? That I suppose not. 01:21:02
A legislatively form committee, right. So I participate because it made a show. 01:21:08
Support from the city and. 01:21:13
We do budget some money for them. 01:21:17
So that rolls a little bit different. 01:21:21
Same with Rotary Rotary. 01:21:24
You know, we just participate in Rotary because it's holiday Rotary and there are people volunteering. 01:21:27
Inside the city, and it's our way of saying. 01:21:33
Value your contributions to the city. 01:21:36
And want to show up and be a voice for you with our counsel and that's kind of where it ends, but. 01:21:39
On the legislatively formed committees within the city, right so. 01:21:45
The Tree Committee, the Historical Commission, the Arts Council. 01:21:49
Is the business advisor where that's something else I wanted to bring up also because we didn't cover that Thursday, but is that a 01:21:54
legislative reform for? 01:21:57
Not really. Just part of the city, right? Yeah, it was formed they're entitled to. 01:22:02
The city manager, the ability to form those kind of committees and so that's what I've done for now. 01:22:09
With the idea. 01:22:16
Probably take a mirror or so to get their legs under it, and then likely make that change so that it becomes just like a. 01:22:17
So, yeah, but so I think the roles end up being dual because, one, we want to. 01:22:29
We want to accomplish the same thing by saying we have a liaison from City Council because. 01:22:34
Year The work you do is really important to the city and we want to make sure. 01:22:39
That you feel supported? 01:22:44
But also, there's a mission statement involved with those committees too, right? And they are faces and voices of the city health 01:22:46
Happy, healthy holidays. 01:22:50
That they are. 01:22:58
Representing the city and somet. 01:23:00
Not very often, but sometimes I think. 01:23:04
Scope Creek. 01:23:07
Forget outside their lane or whatever you want to call it and it's like that City Council person. 01:23:11
To say I think we're. 01:23:16
I think you guys need to refocus on what you're doing because we don't want that. 01:23:19
Misrepresent. 01:23:24
What their mission is for the. 01:23:26
Or as a representative of the city and create some exposure on our behalf. 01:23:29
A situation that came up last year. So yeah, it's kind of the dual role. It's a little bit. 01:23:37
It can be a little. 01:23:42
Tricky to navigate. Sometimes we haven't had much of a problem with it, and sometimes we have. 01:23:44
We just. 01:23:49
Issue come up right? 01:23:50
The speaker series that we had to kind of get involved with, but. 01:23:54
Anyway, I don't think there's anything other than just kind of see how people feel about it, make sure they understand the kind of 01:23:57
the dual role. 01:24:01
One being a cheerleader and an advocate for making sure they have everything they need from the city. 01:24:05
And being that voice, but also. 01:24:09
If not directly with that with. 01:24:13
The Counselor Comm. 01:24:15
Kind of bring it up with the cups. I think we had an issue here. 01:24:17
Need some help on how to navigate. 01:24:21
And those I am happy. And so it's Holly to help you work through those issues so that you can continue to be a cheerleader. 01:24:24
Well, you know. 01:24:37
I have to say that if I think back. 01:24:41
The work that our committees are doing right now, and Paul, you. 01:24:47
Back me up on this a little bit. You've been around long enough too, but. 01:24:52
They are in way better shape than when I came on board. 01:24:57
The relationships are stronger. I think the committees are stronger, the work they're doing for the city. 01:25:03
Is incredible. So let me leave it on a good note that I think these committees and commissions are doing great work. 01:25:10
But she just, I think she just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page in terms of. 01:25:16
You know, balancing those roles and making sure we understand what they are. 01:25:21
We've never really talked about it as a. 01:25:24
Just have moved forward with this idea of liaison and I wanted to make sure it was working for all of me. 01:25:28
That reminds me when. 01:25:34
When Steve Gunn was running the Arts Council. 01:25:37
I was still frequently going to those meetings, even though he was the liaison, volunteering. 01:25:40
Of course, he was a stickler for. 01:25:46
You know the parliamentary procedure. 01:25:48
That's what I heard and. 01:25:52
The proper procedure was followed regards to votes and motions and seconds. 01:25:55
And I had not been a stickler for those sorts of things. What is the level of importance of those things? I mean, I think they are 01:26:00
open and public meetings. That's what I care about, that they are, you know, we follow noticing proper noticing for those 01:26:06
meetings. 01:26:12
Other than that, if the committee is working. 01:26:19
So yeah, I presume too that those things maybe need to be reintroduced if there is. 01:26:22
A lot of differing opinions and people aren't being heard. 01:26:28
But I've never had that really experience in the Arts Council live and everybody kind of works well together. 01:26:31
This almost seems more restrictive. 01:26:37
Wow, that kind of frees out the discussion. 01:26:41
There is no legal requirement. 01:26:45
For Robert's Bill of Order. 01:26:48
Not not your meeting and not the Arts Council. 01:26:51
With Roberts Rosen, a general guy, be honest with you, but legally you can adopt any form of sort of procedure. 01:26:53
Good. 01:27:07
We're having a site work conversation in violation. 01:27:08
Yeah, so. 01:27:20
I'll text you. 01:27:24
Not during the meeting. 01:27:27
Retrieval. So this was just. 01:27:35
If there's, you know, we set our goals from the Creek last year, we're about the half year point for the calendar year. 01:27:38
Is to let you know to see if Gina's done anything she wants to point out or get more, get guidance on and then also set a new 01:27:45
retreat. 01:27:48
So last year we did our goal setting a little differently and we went, we answered three questions during the retreat. The first 01:27:54
was, I think, Stephanie, what do I love? 01:28:01
What do I love about holiday? What do we value about our current community? 01:28:10
And this is the. 01:28:16
Answers that council came up. 01:28:18
Then the next question was? 01:28:24
What's our 50 year vision for our community? 01:28:29
And so we talked about vibrant pockets of commercial while preserving our character. We talked about preserving our first rate 01:28:33
public safety. 01:28:39
Providing housing options welcoming diverse residents. 01:28:45
Keeping our sense of community and that theme comes through in a lot of responses. 01:28:50
But also. 01:28:56
Exploring bike paths and making our community a little more pedestrian friendly than it might be right now. 01:28:59
And then our third question was what do we want to achieve that 50 year vision? What are the important areas of focus for the next 01:29:09
10 years? 01:29:13
So we came up with I think it is 25, is that right? Yeah, 25. 01:29:20
Areas of focus for the next 10 years. 01:29:31
I will say as I went through this exercise, we have a lot of overlap among these 25 goals so. 01:29:34
Focus on walkability and fight. 01:29:42
Is probably not that different. 01:29:45
Active Transportation. 01:29:51
So I think we ended up really with maybe 8 or 10 rather than 25. 01:29:54
So in order to talk about. 01:30:02
Where we are. 01:30:05
Well, first of all, I would just say those that are highlighted in yellow. 01:30:07
Are those that I couldn't point to any definitive thing that we have yet done this year? 01:30:12
That would. 01:30:18
Be in support of those goals and that's really just, I think the top was that. 01:30:20
Crossroads identify and create Crossroads type commercial opportunities. I think we have things in mind. We talked about some of 01:30:28
those at our. 01:30:32
Last. 01:30:37
39th and Highland was identified as one of those potential areas. 01:30:39
Certainly the crossroads area itself at. 01:30:45
Highlands at 6200 and then we had a couple of other smaller areas, but we haven't. 01:30:51
Not a lot has happened. 01:30:57
In support of those commercial opportunities in the last year. 01:31:00
Is that fair, John? 01:31:05
And then the second one ballots clean curb and gutter corridors with country Rd. extensions into neighborhoods. 01:31:11
That's what I'd love to have further conversation at another council. 01:31:20
About what that means and where exactly we want to preserve country Rd. 01:31:27
Aesthetics in our city and where we're really looking for curb cutter and sidewalk. 01:31:33
So that will be a really fun, detailed conversation. 01:31:39
I get from that that corridors anywhere like Highland Drive. 01:31:43
And its redevelopment that we've been talking about. 01:31:46
Versus the neighborhood extension to come off of. 01:31:49
Where curbing guide perhaps is not as important, but rather having. 01:31:52
Our main corridors be. 01:31:58
Friendly to multiple types of transformation. I can demo 30 next. 01:32:02
And we're shopping, right? 01:32:06
So I'll give you a for example that came up this week. We're looking at some redevelopment well. 01:32:09
The existing redevelopment along the holiday. 01:32:17
Less of clearview and talking about how to integrate. 01:32:22
Right now, that sidewalk end. 01:32:28
Is that what we want sidewalks to end or would we like to see? 01:32:32
Is that a location where would like to see more sidewalks? That certainly said Very Holiday Rd. is one of the corridor types 01:32:37
versus once you go off the corridor into like calling lane or down Sycamore, that's less. 01:32:43
That's more country roadish, but I'd. 01:32:50
And 45th. 01:32:53
Murray holiday. 01:32:55
Island Dr. Those are the corridors where? 01:32:57
We should look at opportunities but. 01:33:00
We aren't in the sidewalk building business. 01:33:03
So I have super expensive. 01:33:05
You know if there's an ideal here, but there's. 01:33:08
Talking about lots of money when our primary role is. 01:33:12
You know paving streets so cars can drive on. 01:33:15
This is curb and gutter which has been sidewalk. 01:33:19
It's tricky. You looked at like Holly Blvd. for example, as you go South. 01:33:25
By the permanent monastery and down from. 01:33:29
I could never picture right. Yeah. So that's an exception, Yeah. 01:33:32
And maybe it has to do with some of like the estate zone that would help the country estate zoned areas or something something 01:33:37
like that where you have. 01:33:41
More of that country Rd. feel. 01:33:46
To me, it's the kind of things. 01:33:48
Classic attack is it, You know, isn't that kind of a thing right? Where you can you just kind of know when you see it kind of a 01:33:51
thing. I don't know, but I don't work through you guys also. So no longer. That would be a good. 01:33:56
Undertaking for the general plan update is to identify, I mean do you think we would have the capability of identifying? 01:34:03
Philosophically, what we think with the areas that would. 01:34:13
What we would encourage permit gutters in areas we wouldn. 01:34:16
Mean I think definitely that would be an opportunity I think right now your ordinance states. 01:34:20
Sort of, anecdotally. 01:34:25
What is currently? 01:34:27
Because the county gave you some inconsistent patterns. 01:34:28
If it's there on the street and you have a home that's being proposed on that street that doesn't have. 01:34:34
Is it important to continue that pattern? 01:34:40
But if they're the first one going? 01:34:43
That's the question. So they rebuild their house. 01:34:47
We're going to make them put curving better in. 01:34:50
Is that what you're saying is that the curbing better ends? 01:34:53
Yeah. 01:34:57
Definitely would. 01:35:03
Yes. 01:35:04
I think JS can help us kind of identify some. 01:35:06
Last year, you prioritized in terms of our grant writing for Sidewalk until you prioritized. 01:35:11
School routes, Transit corridors. 01:35:19
China state there were three or four others. 01:35:23
What I'd like to do is bring you some examples, some things that we were a staff. 01:35:27
We're not quite sure. 01:35:33
Your direction. 01:35:35
That's going to be an interesting conversation. It's a really tough issue. I would tend to more agree with Paul. 01:35:37
That you know these. 01:35:44
Corridors that we turn them into active transportation corridors if possible. 01:35:48
To get inside neighborhood. 01:35:53
Because even if you think you agree as soon as you go to put them in, I guarantee you. 01:35:56
Calls from half the people telling you why that's a stupid idea. 01:36:03
Half of them that say it's a great idea? Exactly. And that's where your survey results are almost right there, right now. 01:36:07
Know some people say. 01:36:17
Need sidewalks. These kids can't walk. 01:36:22
So that's where we are. That is why that is highlighted. 01:36:29
But we hope to have more conversation. 01:36:35
And then the next thing that I just wanted to show you is this road map again, what we're working on. 01:36:37
Then. 01:36:46
I tied each of these items. 01:36:48
To those 10 year priorities. 01:36:52
So there are some that aren't. Don't tie back to the 10 year priority list. 01:36:55
And some that support multiple priorities. 01:37:02
So our 27th East project that we're working on now supports, I think, 4 different priorities. 01:37:06
And then some of what we're prioritizing as a staff is just kind of the basic things that we do. 01:37:17
Legislative updates. 01:37:27
Work on policy and procedures for the DEP. 01:37:29
Let me see, we've got some check. 01:37:33
This is basically an 18 month rolling plan. 01:37:37
Completed Arts and Trail. 01:37:43
Redesign the website and implement some new budgeting software phase. 01:37:48
And then some things that we just regularly do. Performance reviews. 01:37:55
Legislative updates and we're starting to work on the federal plan update. 01:38:02
So happy to answer any questions about anything on this list. 01:38:24
Yeah, the only reason I brought it up is we spent a lot of time setting all these. 01:38:31
You know, priorities and. 01:38:36
Sometimes don't revisit them. Or should revisit them, I guess, and especially Tina if you need to reprioritize. 01:38:39
You're getting stuck on something that you need guidance on. 01:38:46
Otherwise, these things are all just going on under the radar. 01:38:50
We just assume everything's great. 01:38:56
Things are great and very busy. 01:38:59
Hey, any questions from on that? No, but I did have one question back on the policies that started backwards but. 01:39:04
More clarification in my mind as far as like a public. 01:39:12
Public comment periods concerned could somebody. 01:39:16
How does that work exactly? Is it? I've seen it, it seems where it opens and closes during the same meeting and then sometimes. Is 01:39:19
it left open beyond that? And what does it really? 01:39:23
Mean. So are you addressing the public comment that happens at the first of council meeting? 01:39:27
Or are you addressing public hearings on specific items? 01:39:33
I guess the public comment period, the first of the council meeting, that's just, that's just open mic essentially. 01:39:37
Is public hearings you have left open from time to time on issues where? 01:39:43
You anticipate that there may be additional comment. 01:39:49
That's coming or is needed for some reason. 01:39:53
Sometimes we left them open because we know we. 01:39:56
We haven't operated full council. 01:40:00
There have been different reasons why we might have left the public hearing. 01:40:02
From time to time. 01:40:06
And that's kind of at the discretion of the chair and the. 01:40:08
That's the one you choose to do. 01:40:11
The one thing that. 01:40:13
Your standard and your policy and rule is you don't generally vote on an item the night you have. 01:40:15
We do deviate from that from time to time. You'll see an application on. 01:40:21
Or an item on your agenda next week where we're going to ask you to do that. 01:40:25
But that I don't know if we can necessarily identify a particular reason why you might continue a public hearing. 01:40:32
But it's not uncommon usually. 01:40:38
Usually if it's non controversial, we close the public hearing. 01:40:41
But I would say as a rule. 01:40:45
We operate with a high level of respect for citizens ability to be able to comment on something. 01:40:47
And so if there's never. 01:40:54
Question and a lot of times I'll defer to the Council on it. 01:40:57
There's every question. 01:41:01
And based on the fact that we. 01:41:03
Will not voted at that council meeting. We leave it open so that. 01:41:05
If things evolve over that period of time, there's still plenty of time for people to comment and come to the next comes meeting 01:41:09
comments. 01:41:12
We feel confident that we gave everybody the opportunity, that one and one. 01:41:16
Provided input before we close the public hearing, but if it's not controversial, I just close it. 01:41:21
That happens less on site specific land use applications than it does on. 01:41:27
Sort of ordinance text changes, or the creation of a chapter in your zoning code for a particular purpose. 01:41:32
Those have been the ones that we've tended to leave. 01:41:39
Overtime there have been some site specific that's really pretty rare. 01:41:42
That's technically a public hearing. Simply saying. 01:41:46
Public has the opportunity to. 01:41:50
Remarks and an input to share to the Council during this time, kind of outside of that. 01:41:52
They really don't and we shouldn't. We hear it. That's that issue we were kind of talking about there, that we have that danger of 01:41:57
one person hearing and not the whole council hearing and then a decision being made on less than. 01:42:04
Complete information or one council member who has a different conception based on something they heard with the rest. 01:42:11
So once that public hearing is open, I definitely. 01:42:16
Think the better course is. 01:42:19
Give us your comments in writing or come to the public. 01:42:21
There's a Gray area and there will always be a Gray area. 01:42:25
When you don't make a decision and not a public hearing about what you do with comments that might roll in. 01:42:28
That's a good question though, So in this particular case. 01:42:34
We close the public hearing on the. 01:42:38
Kai gets lobbied after the 8. 01:42:42
Yeah, and, Ty says. You know, I'd rather. 01:42:44
Provide this to the council that the public hearings officially closed. So then can those comments be circulated to the council 01:42:48
outside of the public hearing? We generally won't do that. 01:42:53
That's a good question. 01:43:00
And prior to the public hearing openings, same thing, well. 01:43:02
They can write something and it can queue up and yeah, it'll be shared at that point, but. 01:43:06
Stephanie, do you generally language and notices that says like written comments are accepted up to? 01:43:13
Yeah. 01:43:22
But that's one too where? 01:43:24
Say in this particular case where you're. 01:43:27
Representative for that district where? At the council meeting. My recommendation would be you say? 01:43:29
My preference would be to this public hearing remain open. I anticipating getting more input. So if you do get an e-mail, you can 01:43:34
forward to Stephanie and it can be circulated right and we would leave it open like. 01:43:40
We would continue the public hearing. 01:43:49
Is there anybody else here? Then we close it and then we take the vote. 01:43:51
Yeah, we've always been pretty. We're pretty respectful. 01:43:56
People's ability to be able to provide input citizen input. 01:44:01
Thank you. Thanks. 01:44:08
All right. Are we under the retreat? We are, so we typically have. 01:44:12
The retreat, we used to do it on Saturday mornings, I think. What did we do last year? We did on the Thursday night regular 01:44:17
council night. 01:44:21
Yeah, we can start it. I think that's one of the main things Gene wants to get out of this. 01:44:29
Do you want to just do it on a? 01:44:33
Thursday and start in the afternoon or the morning and go into the evening? Or do we want to do it on a Saturday? 01:44:35
I mean. 01:44:43
What are you thinking? 01:44:45
I know you want to bring in some of the key staff members to present I. 01:44:46
So what would you think would be an adequate time? 01:44:52
I mean, I think. 01:44:57
Historically this group for hours. 01:45:00
85 depending on how much. 01:45:03
You know, last year I think we had. 01:45:08
Other conversations about our motivation for serving, and I thought that was a valuable conversation. I don't know if there are 01:45:11
other topics like that. 01:45:16
That you'd like to talk about in addition to. 01:45:21
That relates to. 01:45:25
But you said when you say four or five hours, do you mean for this body or do you mean total? I mean total. 01:45:29
With staff and every. 01:45:35
We did in that amount of time last night. 01:45:40
So I think our options are we can. 01:45:48
We could actually. 01:45:51
Yeah. 01:45:53
Come and have a white lunch and then start at one and wrap up at 5:00 and probably have plenty of time to get it all done if we 01:45:56
wanted to do it in an afternoon or. 01:45:59
We could start at. 01:46:04
And go till 7:00 or 8:00 or we could come in on a Saturday. 01:46:07
If you want to do it. 01:46:12
I don't want to give you my opinion, I'd just rather hear what you have to say. 01:46:15
In terms of. 01:46:19
Well, who wants to? 01:46:22
You guys. 01:46:24
What would be your preference? 01:46:26
And we have a couple of days in mind. 01:46:28
So we if Thursday night is your preference, we're thinking February 29th if Saturday is your preference. 01:46:32
Identified March 2nd. I don't know if that changes any of your. 01:46:39
These are the first two options, what I would prefer it's either. 01:46:44
A week, A week 6 at. 01:46:48
Number or like if there's like like last year was great and probably personally did not do it on Saturday and missing SAP. 01:46:51
I would say Thursday afternoon, first choice, Thursday evening, second choice. 01:46:58
Is everybody here February 20? 01:47:14
And I guess my second question is this is probably more not that. 01:47:18
I don't know, Emily. I forgive me. I don't know if you work full time or. 01:47:22
My schedule is really open right now. OK. So that answers that question. The other two probably Matt and. 01:47:28
Both have full time jobs, right. And so you guys would be the most critical in terms of. 01:47:37
What kind of challenge that's going to create for your work schedule. If we did say like a one to five meeting on the 29th, I 01:47:42
could make it happen, but it'd be easier if it was the 4:00 going into the evening as opposed to 1:00. 01:47:48
Same let me put either one I can make it work. 01:47:57
Make these hard decisions. 01:48:04
Well. 01:48:09
Probably. 01:48:16
Stephanie, John Holly. Jared Lena. 01:48:18
Come in after hours for a while I get. 01:48:26
Well, I. 01:48:33
I don't want to burden you guys with your work schedules, so if it's a burden at all, I would. 01:48:35
We should kind of respect maybe shift it back a little bit. 01:48:41
Start at three or four or something. 01:48:46
Like that. 01:48:48
Set at 3:00. 01:48:52
Yeah, and break from a lot. 01:48:54
Would. 01:48:58
And so we could do the staff on the front end, Gina. 01:49:01
And then a little break and then a couple hours after and call. 01:49:04
Night and Are we doing it here or do you want to do? 01:49:09
We can do it here, or we can find another location. I mean, sometimes it is nice to actually retreat as part of a retreat. 01:49:15
But this is really easy and central as well, yeah. 01:49:24
Happy to find. 01:49:29
But I also know that this is really easy for a lot of people. 01:49:32
We are here all the time. 01:49:39
Like. 01:49:41
This is created. 01:49:43
So I would say. 01:49:49
That's right. 01:49:51
Yeah, well we have the technology here and Staffs here, so staff, but so I think that the plan would be if it's three too early 01:49:55
you wanna. 01:50:00
Is that OK? Do you want us to bump it to four? I can make it work. OK, 3:00. 01:50:06
We'll start with staff Gina so that staff doesn't have to extend. 01:50:12
Beyond their regular work, cameras at it, you know, respect for their schedules And then. 01:50:16
We'll just do a little light. 01:50:20
Dinner right here probably work. 01:50:23
During that time to do some work during that time and try. 01:50:26
Be done by say 8:00? 01:50:29
Sounds good on the. 01:50:33
OK, if you have a request for dinner, let me know. 01:50:35
Play. 01:50:42
Well, that was before she started. That was before she started offering up choices. 01:50:48
All right. Legislative update process, I think we. 01:50:56
I think we kind of handled that. I think Gina got good guidance from the council. 01:51:04
Unless I'm putting words in people's mouths. 01:51:09
Generally, we kind of we kind of depend on Gina and Holly and the Stata floors. 01:51:13
To kind of see what's going on during the legislative session they're aware of. 01:51:19
Issues that are going to. 01:51:24
Probably to us and to let us. 01:51:28
If we should be aware of something. 01:51:31
And they. 01:51:33
Basically the updates on Friday and then we. 01:51:35
The Monday. 01:51:38
LPC, right. And it sounds like that was set up here, Paul, you came and they set it up here. 01:51:41
Which I think is great. So you can zoom in, yeah. 01:51:51
As long as my schedule allows it, I'll probably go up there. 01:51:55
To be there in person with the Staffords and whatnot. 01:52:01
I think that's open to anybody if somebody wants to come in for the LPC meeting. 01:52:05
Which I think are actually very good. 01:52:10
Very informative and that way you don't have to track all the way up to the hill. 01:52:12
And we'll avoid a quorum. 01:52:17
Right here, I think. Yeah, right. But you can do it from home. Yeah, you can do it from home. But I wanted to be here with the 01:52:20
gang because sometimes you get into these quick issues that are kind of rapid fire. I kind of wanted to be in the room with 01:52:26
people. So my boats were offsetting because I didn't. I thought about in reverse or something at the wrong time. 01:52:32
So I thought it was good. 01:52:38
Not just be by myself on a zoom, but be. 01:52:41
Yeah, staff, in case I had a question, some discussion, yeah. 01:52:44
It was helpful, yeah. So that this is available. 01:52:49
You know, it's an open meeting up there as well, right? So you can come up to the league as well and sign in. 01:52:53
Box periodically, particularly if you're participating online, going to be times where they'll last for a vote and it's. 01:53:03
This hall and mayor and I have votes that anybody can listen. 01:53:13
And they are. They're informative. I mean, they kind of hit the big issues. 01:53:19
The important stuff in an hour and a half. 01:53:26
But it is like drinking from a fire hose. Yeah, it is. 01:53:29
Mondays meeting in particular was very raucous for the first one. 01:53:35
So we've got the and then we've got the lunch next Wednesday. 01:53:48
So it's me and. 01:53:52
Emily and. 01:53:55
Are you going? Oh, it's. 01:54:01
I think Carol and Caitlin are gonna. 01:54:11
Sit at our table at Galen at least for a period time, so I will get there early. 01:54:14
And get us a table and then I'll just text. 01:54:20
You guys, what table? 01:54:24
And usually that runs from like moon to like 2. 01:54:26
Stuff like that. 01:54:29
For the update, sure, yeah, I want to go. 01:54:32
What's the update? 01:54:36
I have to look at the schedule. 01:54:39
There's a schedule. 01:54:43
All right. 01:54:47
Convention Center, Convention Center. It's a big luncheon. 01:54:50
Closed session. 01:55:01
Sure. Just to clarify my mind and maybe. 01:55:04
It'll be good for Emily. So when we have. 01:55:07
An e-mail that comes in. 01:55:11
From some situation is. 01:55:13
Address to all of. 01:55:16
My assumption has always been that this. 01:55:18
Whose district it comes from is the one that answers. Is that correct? 01:55:22
There is nothing in your Rules order and procedure that dictates that. 01:55:27
Practically, that's the way you have operated in the past. 01:55:34
And it seems logical to me. 01:55:37
Right my question, my confusion in the past has. 01:55:39
Is we don't know if the e-mail. 01:55:43
Answer This came up last year when. 01:55:48
There was something that I was assuming Dan was. 01:55:53
Reply to and he never did. And then about a month later we got a very angry e-mail from this person. 01:55:56
I hope the Holiday Blvd. Is that the bike lane. 01:56:03
I think it was. 01:56:08
So I'm just wondering, maybe we can. 01:56:10
CC everybody. 01:56:14
How do we know that? 01:56:16
This the person who writes in has been answered. That's a good question. 01:56:19
I guess we can make that assumption, but then if. 01:56:24
If that person was going to their fund, they CC everybody else. So we saw they were responding to. 01:56:28
Sending a bunch of responses because I'm guilty. 01:56:35
I was gonna say that whenever it's come, it's not in the US. Many times you've replied all and that way. I know that the response 01:56:38
is there. You've always done it with me anyway. But maybe I shouldn't, maybe I don't. I think it's good because one of my 01:56:44
questions is too is sometimes. 01:56:50
It needs to be you because it's something that affects. 01:56:56