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Is it just a coincidence that we just did the ordinance and now we have A and now we have one, but the ordinance is not passed 00:00:03
City Council yet, so hanging out there. OK, so we're on there. 00:00:09
So this is preordinance, right? Preordinance. All right. So there might be some of the changes in the future, but as is, we 00:00:17
evaluated this application under the existing code. 00:00:23
So the modifications on this pretty thorough in the applicants submission. 00:00:30
I detailed some of the history of the site. 00:00:39
Primarily the house was built the historic houses in the front of the property. There is an addition in 1979 on the rear side of 00:00:44
the property. 00:00:48
That incorporated a lot of the same elements that you can see in the main house, with the exception of maybe some different brick, 00:00:54
but you know. 00:00:58
Different time periods. So the modifications that the applicant is requesting is a tree removals, painting, window trim, 00:01:03
replacement of the South side entrance door and the east side entrance store. 00:01:12
Fencing and then adding removing a existing. 00:01:23
Garage and carport on the site in the parking lot and then building a new one. The applicant sent me over. 00:01:29
Architectural detail for the new garage, so we can look at that. 00:01:38
And then some details on the storefront. 00:01:45
The staff report had a detailed review from John as to each of the items that were submitted for changes with a recommendation for 00:01:50
each of those. And I think maybe if we just start there, if there's any questions on those recommendations. 00:01:59
My only question is how did it get to be yellow? Because that certainly wasn't the historic color of the on the front of the 00:02:11
brick. 00:02:15
That front doorway, Oh yeah. So the the doors that are there are likely not they were not there from the beginning. You could see 00:02:19
in the. 00:02:23
In the article that was attached, I'm probably just a pretty basic door, but that was in 1979. 00:02:29
As well. 00:02:38
So the original door at some point went away. So what's there is what is there. 00:02:40
So we still have no landscape plan. 00:02:59
Other than just the trees being removed and then there's still like three of them questioning on what they're being replaced with 00:03:02
and where. Right, yes. And the applicant was talking to me about that today. So he'll have some proposed trees. I was going to 00:03:09
send him a the tree recommendation list. I'll likely pick something from that recommended list or if the Commission has any 00:03:16
suggestions as as you may. 00:03:24
I got a few. 00:03:32
And then what about the the fencing on the West side is there, there wasn't any details provided as to what the fencing would be 00:03:35
replaced with, but you can ask the question of the applicant of what they were envisioning for that. 00:03:43
Historically possibly doing like a an iron or black kind of open fence on the front of the property limited to the four feet in 00:03:52
height and then the rear of the property is is more open. 00:03:58
And then there's nothing that I saw calling out what the plan was. So they're demolishing the garage on the east side of the 00:04:10
parking lot in the back and moving that to the further back. What's going where the garage was? Is that called out on anything? It 00:04:15
would just be parking. 00:04:21
So this would be essentially adding new parking to it then? 00:04:29
And then taking out some parking where the new garage would be going. 00:04:34
All right, And as far as the doors go. 00:04:45
What's being proposed as a Glass Modern? Looks like a 711 storefront kind of, right? A typical commercial. 00:04:49
Upgraded. 00:05:03
OK. 00:05:06
I don't know from whatever the cut and paste picture I was I saw in the packet. 00:05:08
Don't worry, we'll jump in as soon as we get the real meeting. We're just in our work meeting still. These are these are new 00:05:16
elevations that were sent over to me today. So we can look at those, but that's. 00:05:22
Slightly different than Is that the side or the front? This looks like it's the side because here's the. 00:05:33
The roof overhang. This looks like the front. 00:05:42
Is that the front? Oh, this is the east side. 00:05:47
And then is this site also east? Oh God, it's all east side. 00:05:54
And then this is the detail for the new garage. 00:06:01
So kind of angle to fit at the angled portion of the property on the back? 00:06:12
And before everybody got here, I was advised by council that there was notification sent out, but it was only the immediate, not 00:06:20
the norm. Is that right? Like there was a limit on the the standard notification for this public hearing? 00:06:27
So it might be something we want to just continue to ensure that. 00:06:47
We're meeting due process on everything and then. 00:06:51
Conversely, have the applicant address anything that doesn't get answered here tonight. 00:06:55
OK. 00:07:11
All right. Any other questions for city staff on this before we jump in and start the official? 00:07:14
No. All right. With that, we'll close the work meeting and Carrie and let me know when we're ready to switch gears into the real 00:07:22
thing. 00:07:26
We can just jump right in. All righty, jumping in it is. Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Holiday Planning Commission, June 00:07:33
4th, 2024. In attendance we have Commissioner Gong Velcinski and Cunningham. 00:07:39
And Chair Roach and then we have City Council Brad Kostofferson and City staff Kerry Marsh. And we have one item on the agenda for 00:07:45
the Brenton House Historic Site modification permit. Brad, do we need to read the opening statement if the applicants the only one 00:07:51
here? 00:07:56
All right. Well, since there is nobody from the public here, then we will omit the general opening statement that we begin with 00:08:03
and we will just move right into the first item and carry. You kind of touched on this in the week work meeting, but if you want 00:08:08
to give us the quick brief. 00:08:14
Recap. 00:08:21
Figure it's always better to be official at the podium. 00:08:33
OK, so this application is for historic site modifications, which is the conditional use for the Brenton House, which is a 00:08:37
historic home and site at 1981 E Murray Holiday Rd. 00:08:44
The existing property has a historical home on the east. I'm sorry, not the east side, the South side with a addition that was 00:08:53
added onto the north side of the home in 1979. 00:09:00
The applicant is proposing a replacement of the front doors on the South side and then the east doors next to the parking lot. 00:09:08
Those are detailed in their presentation I. 00:09:15
The other modifications are site landscaping, removing trees on the east side of the building aspens, and then replacing those 00:09:24
with some columnar evergreens. Three other trees on the site shown as being removed. They would be replaced. 00:09:34
The applicant would need to submit a landscape plan showing the replacement location for those 3 trees. 00:09:45
Let's see. 00:09:52
The applicants also proposing to demolish a. 00:09:55
Detached garage and a carport on the side. They're both within the parking lot and demolishing those. They would build a larger 00:09:59
garage on the north side of the property. Other modifications on the structure, painting all the window trims, trim and. 00:10:08
Black and the applicant can detail if that's also going to include the soffit and fascia, but I didn't see that in their 00:10:18
application. 00:10:22
Um, let's see, I think that is all of the points on there. There is a canopy that they were proposing on the east side as well. 00:10:26
The staff recommendation is just adding some more ornate detailing, so it kind of ties in with the historical architecture and 00:10:36
then. 00:10:40
Possibly modifying the doors so that they have more visual weight instead of a more typical glass retail door style. And I'll have 00:10:46
the applicant come up, they can go through kind of their presentation. They have that pulled up and can answer any questions that 00:10:54
the Commission has. All right, thank you very much. 00:11:02
And if we can invite the applicant or representative, I have Katie on here. I'm just gonna make a ventured guess that you are not 00:11:10
Katie. I'm not Katie. OK. And what is your name? Ben Wheat. Ben what? Ben Wheat. Wheat. Yep. Thank you. Just like the bread. 00:11:19
All right, Ben. 00:11:31
Just a little back story on this, um. 00:11:39
We just recently purchased this building. 00:11:42
We're going to use it for our headquarters. The company that I work for is Roderick Enterprises. We're a local land developer and 00:11:47
property owner. We've been in business since 1956. We've been established in Murray for the past 17 years on a building on Vine 00:11:53
Street and. 00:11:59
We've just grown out of that building and then. 00:12:07
Saw that Kurt was selling this and had a lot of attraction. Our company has some old ties. Our founding partner just grew up right 00:12:11
across the street from this. They used to be in the oil and gas service. They owned the Chevron gas station off of 45th South and 00:12:18
23rd East. And so we were excited for the opportunity. So we will be making the 1st floor kind of our headquarters for our main 00:12:25
operations and so. 00:12:32
As part of this. 00:12:40
Application that we think the building is in great shape, Kurt's done a great job in maintaining it. There's just some things that 00:12:42
we as as part of kind of freshening up is is really behind the majority of this application so. 00:12:49
Kind of like Carrie pointed out, there's we've got kind of several things on page 2. 00:13:00
It kind of goes over what the suggested conditions of approval were from from staff the 1st. 00:13:08
Thing that we're proposing is painting the window transfation railing to be black. 00:13:15
In the. 00:13:22
Slideshow presentation to carry. Yeah. So we try to, what we try to do here was just give staff what just a realistic version of 00:13:23
what we're proposing so. 00:13:29
We just had our architects try to do their best job. So really we're just, we're not changing any of the. 00:13:38
We're not changing any of the structure on the. 00:13:45
Old the Britain mansion we're just simply painting the windows soffit and fascia and then like discussed earlier, replacing the 00:13:50
entrance doors that are not part of the original structure with it's a storefront door. So it's it's metal black million metal 00:13:58
millions with. 00:14:05
Tempered glass and so this will be a 40X70 door with two side lights on either side just to fulfill that. 00:14:14
Current 6 foot opening. 00:14:22
Part of that is. 00:14:25
That when we started talking to the attorney that's been there for a long time and just some addressing some of her concerns and 00:14:29
we have some some some of the same concerns on the east entrance in terms of replacing that door. It's, it's an old door, it's 00:14:35
drafty. It's not period specific to the actual mansion aspect of it. So part of the process was to try to renovate her space a 00:14:42
little bit and and. 00:14:49
Address some of the concerns that she's had as a tenant from for a long time from the previous ownership. 00:14:57
So that's kind of the first bullet point in terms of what we're asking to do. 00:15:04
The second is the we talked a little bit about it, just putting the new doors on, on the front and back. 00:15:10
Excuse me? 00:15:18
I incorporated this in part of the application in talking with Carrie and the staff. I mean, this part of the structure that's not 00:15:21
part of the mansion is not really part of the historical structure. But just to be completely transparent on what we're doing with 00:15:28
the entire project, we just decided to add this to the to the overall application. Same thing here. We would just be painting 00:15:34
windows, soffit fascia, kind of that darker black color. 00:15:41
The exhibit that carriage set that Carrier had up earlier. 00:15:48
We're not actually putting a canopy on here. The kind of that 3D rendering right there that you can see on your screen, it's just 00:15:52
a black frame that will frame that entrance. 00:15:57
Out, so there's not actually a. 00:16:03
There's kind of a built in canopy you can kind of see there's a little bit of a Cove that's covered and that's kind of the 00:16:06
transition between the mansion and the newer structure that was built in 79. 00:16:10
So this was my, this was probably my fault. We were trying to render kind of a again, a before and after to try to give staff an 00:16:16
understanding of what it would look like. But we're not doing the that that's called an eyebrow where you've got the yeah. So 00:16:24
that's not depicted in the in the, the 3D rendering that we have. And this is part of what we've got established with our building 00:16:31
permit that's currently being reviewed with the building department on the, the TI aspect of. So the frame is going to. 00:16:38
And it's partially going to cover the. 00:16:46
Whatever you want to call that hexagon slanted facing out wall. 00:16:50
Yeah. And and kind of the idea is. 00:16:55
For the entrance and then this is going to establish just a crossbar and then that's what 1981? 00:17:01
So there won't be any physical canopy, that's for sure. 00:17:08
Out into the. 00:17:11
Into the camp people, this this is. 00:17:14
Kind of picture this without the eyebrow and the. 00:17:18
Crosshand, it's just going to be a metal frame that goes here and then AC channel that goes here, all painted black and we're just 00:17:22
using that as markers were the address of 1981. So it's going to look going back to the existing structure. 00:17:30
It's just a black frame and again, this isn't part technically. I mean carry current. If I'm wrong maybe you and Jerry changed 00:17:38
your mind, but this wasn't we. 00:17:44
And some of those conversations, it's is this part of the historical structure? It's not because it was added in 79, but. 00:17:50
Yeah. 00:18:00
So no canopies, it's just that metal. It's just that metal frame around the opening and then again the storefront that would be 00:18:01
replaced the existing kind of yellow doors. 00:18:06
And wood frame. 00:18:12
And, and the glass on the front is frosted, but this, No, it'll be clear. Yeah, that's it. It won't be frosted. It'll be clear 00:18:14
glass just like this. This one's clear. But the front one on the front is going to be clear as well. Yes. OK, So looking at what's 00:18:20
in there now contrasted, I mean, I'm just curious. 00:18:26
If we can go back to sorry to the other graphic that he brought in. 00:18:34
I mean, are they significantly different? 00:18:42
I mean, aside from the double doors, right, So the double doors get replaced. That's a four Oh, by eight. Oh, so it's four feet 00:18:45
wide by 8 feet tall and then that that. 00:18:49
To that just has two large sidelights and then that. 00:18:53
So that whole entrance, the two yellow doors and then all the windows around it, that whole portion of it will be replaced with 00:18:57
the black storefront mullion glass. 00:19:03
OK, I'll just. 00:19:10
I'm wrapping my mind around it, sorry. I'll circle back to that thought later. 00:19:23
So that's number two, um. 00:19:28
#3 was the awning again, we're not doing an awning. So that I mean we don't I guess we can that's tabled or we don't need to. 00:19:32
You're doing a crossbar essentially, right, correct. Yep. 00:19:37
And the crossbar will not sit out past the Nope building. It's going to stay inside that. 00:19:43
**** eyed wall and the other wall, Yeah, just exactly like that, yeah. 00:19:50
#4 would just be a fence replacement in accordance with holiday fence regulations obviously. 00:19:56
Portions of that fence are just have been neglected in terms of maintenance and the large tree growth that's that is happening on 00:20:02
the West side. We haven't proposed anything in terms of fence material that's there in in terms of looking at the code that's 00:20:08
that's monitored all by code probably something like this in terms of the metal, metal rod fencing is probably what we would do up 00:20:14
here on the front of this. 00:20:20
The rest of this in the back is like a six foot chain link fence and then some of this is that wood fence there on the West side. 00:20:27
I mean part of this is. 00:20:37
Because this is the historical site. So all of these, we just wanted to stay within policy and above board that we're bringing all 00:20:39
of these items to. 00:20:44
To staff and appointing Commission, but I. 00:20:50
We just wanted to make sure that kind of everyone knew what we were doing. 00:20:55
So we don't, you don't know currently what that fence is going to be or you haven't committed to anything. Yeah. So we don't know 00:21:00
material. But again, there's code that's put in place that we would have to. 00:21:04
In regards to the replacement of that fence. 00:21:10
With it being historic site, there's. 00:21:13
A little bit of nuance to that, right? 00:21:15
Yeah. I mean, my question is, you know, again, we don't have a plan. 00:21:19
That and there's a lot of no real plan or something changed from the agenda and everything. I'm really concerned this whole thing 00:21:25
was premature to be in front of us because everything's changing. 00:21:31
We spent the time to look at a packet Sunday and now it's all different and that. 00:21:38
With the fencing in particular, I guess my question is there's a lot of things that are allowed under the code. 00:21:44
That may not make sense on a historic site. And it's kind of like we're being asked to give blanket permission. As long as you 00:21:50
follow the code, it's okay, but the purpose is to make sure it maintains the historic character and that. And so without knowing 00:21:57
what you're going to build the fence, I, I don't know how I could ever vote on it and then I. 00:22:03
I think there's a whole bunch of that in this proposal that it's evolving and we don't have the details in that. We're probably 00:22:10
not going to vote on it tonight anyway because of the noticing problem and that which might be a saving grace the next time. We 00:22:17
should have all these details in the packet and the plan and that because I can't vote on a fence, for example, until I know what 00:22:25
proposed, saying that it's compliant with the code isn't sufficient to say whether or not it meets. 00:22:32
Historical. 00:22:40
The look of the historical building and the lot that we're trying to keep, it's a, it's a beautiful building. I, I, you know. 00:22:41
It's great but you could put up another 6 foot. 00:22:47
Wooden fence and that would meet the code, but it may not. 00:22:52
Or a chain link fence for that matter. And I would, I would say that if there's any guidance that you'd like to provide the 00:22:56
applicant on maybe what you'd like to see, so it's not just taking a shot in the dark, it's OK, here's here's some possible 00:23:05
parameters like a darker colored vinyl or darker colored wood. Or if there's any material specifics that you think would be. 00:23:13
Kind of. 00:23:22
Well, not to derail, maybe. 00:23:25
Yeah, it's a great suggestion and it's a great point, Paul. I think what we'll do is we'll allow Mr. Wheat to finish, you know, 00:23:27
kind of walking us through everything on here and we'll just kind of ask you some questions as we go along. But then maybe we can 00:23:33
make some recommendations on what we'd like to see with the motion that will probably be to continue. 00:23:39
For a future meeting, I would recommend opening the public hearing just Emma, then continuing it. OK. 00:23:46
For the neck, till the next time, OK. Speaking of noticing that the historical committee get notified. 00:23:53
If anyone would have shown up tonight, I would have thought the historical committee would have been here after our last meeting. 00:23:59
And that and I'm guessing they don't live within 500 feet so they weren't noticed. 00:24:05
Well, I mean, the agenda was published properly, right? So if they're paying attention to the agenda, they would have had noticed 00:24:11
that way just like the rest of the public. 00:24:15
But I don't think there's any special consideration or notice given to the Historical Commission as they are not a legislative 00:24:21
body. 00:24:25
I think the historic commissions job is to facilitate placement as a historic building and I know that that's part of this 00:24:30
discussion with the council is what role should they play. And so that's kind of evolving. My understanding is the Historical 00:24:37
Commission would like to play a much bigger role. Sure. And there's some tension between the council on that. 00:24:43
So personally, I I would rather have someone historical committee talk about what kind of defense they think. 00:24:50
Is historical. They would know a whole lot more than I would. 00:24:57
So I mean there's not a requirement for the applicant to. 00:25:01
Discuss plans with the Historical Commission. But it could be advisable if they wanted to take some ideas to them and then resent 00:25:05
those so then they can come back and say. 00:25:10
We've discussed this with the historical committee. These were their suggestions. It may help things with some guidance for the 00:25:16
Planning Commission. You're possibly feeling like you don't have all of the. 00:25:23
Historical background to make some of the historical design calls that maybe the historical committee might, or if the applicant 00:25:31
has. 00:25:35
You know some backup on here is this. This is why it is historical and kind of tying that in. 00:25:40
So there's there's some options there that with continuing it can come back with some some more details that would fill in the 00:25:48
some of those Gray areas for the Commission. So not a legal requirement, but a strong suggestion. 00:25:56
To solicit their feedback. 00:26:04
All right, that makes sense. 00:26:09
So, Ben, we just talked right over you there for a couple of minutes. You wanna walk us through the rest of this now? Yeah. Again, 00:26:11
I don't necessarily know if I mean, again, going back to the starting one, painting of windows, trim and fashion. The railing is 00:26:17
black. That hasn't changed in what we've presented to you. 00:26:22
Rehabilitation of the existing wood doors. The renderings were simply to try to give the Planning Commission some sort of idea of 00:26:29
what we were looking for versus just. 00:26:34
Asking what? Or just blanket asking what we were doing? 00:26:40
We can just delete that just because it's inaccurate from that standpoint for the next meeting. 00:26:44
#3 would be deleted because we're not asking for an awning. 00:26:51
Fence replacement. 00:26:56
Yeah. I mean, I guess I kind of agree with Carrie in terms of some direction of. 00:26:58
We don't it's, I mean, the fence is in pretty bad shape as it is. So I think, I think whatever we would probably propose. 00:27:04
Would be better than that, but I. 00:27:14
Long as it's not barbed wire, right? Yeah. Are you tearing out this brick wall in front or is that that's going to stay OK. All 00:27:17
right. Just double checking. Thank you. 00:27:22
Yeah. 00:27:28
So I mean, yeah, the fencing, the fencing is, the fencing around the property is, is. 00:27:30
Along the West side is probably the worst side, which is what I've provided. Carrie is the examples here. On the north and east 00:27:37
side it's just chain link fencing with. 00:27:42
Privacy slats as you can kind of see there, I mean if if the requirement from. 00:27:51
The staff or historical committees is. 00:27:58
To continue a brick wall, we would probably just leave it just because of a cost standpoint, right? You know, we were probably 00:28:01
going to do on that West side some sort of wrought iron fencing along as long as it meant that the city code. We're not going to 00:28:07
do a vinyl fence or something that would look completely out of place. 00:28:13
With the historical building aspect of it. 00:28:21
#5 is landscaping plan showing replacement trees in accordance with holiday code? 00:28:26
I yeah, so I don't have AI, don't I can get, I can get my landscape engineer to do an actual landscape plan. 00:28:34
These were the trees that we're going to replace one for one with a columnar Aspen. 00:28:42
These or a columnar cupercino, which is a small skinny Evergreen Evergreen tree. These are way too close to the building. 00:28:49
And provide a lot of issues from an insurance standpoint from fire safety. 00:29:01
And growing and getting leaves in the gutters and those types of things. So. 00:29:07
And then, yeah, so then you can kind of see. 00:29:13
That's those are the ones that write up is these are the ones that were depicted in that picture that we would replace in one for 00:29:17
one. And then the three other trees were the two trees out front part of the *** right there. Part of that is a it's a huge block 00:29:23
to the frontage of the building in terms of from a leaseability standpoint, we'll still have tenants in the mansion in the in the 00:29:28
upstairs and part of. 00:29:34
Providing. 00:29:41
Visibility to that site as we try to attract tenants to occupy the vacant space in there, we just feel that that's that's a huge 00:29:43
deterrent. So we would want to. 00:29:47
Take those trees down and relocate them on site. 00:29:52
And again, if staff thinks that. 00:29:58
Landscape plan is necessary for that. I'm happy to provide it. 00:30:02
Umm, 6 and seven kind of go hand in hand. It's so carry scroll up. Sorry, just right. 00:30:09
Yeah, right there. So we, we personally think that the placement of the existing garage takes away from the historical aspect of 00:30:18
the site. As you can see this I. 00:30:24
From the street level of Murray Holiday Blvd. it has. 00:30:31
Absolutely no correlation or tie in of the existing structure. There's nothing historically color wise, brick material, or 00:30:36
anything wise that ties into the. 00:30:41
Historical structure of the site. 00:30:48
Our proposal would be to tear that down. That would that would add an additional 5 parking stalls there and then to tear down the. 00:30:51
Carport in the back and then relocate that garage in the rear of the building which could not be you can kind of see the carports. 00:30:59
So that's where the new garage would go. So this would be hidden from street site. 00:31:05
The elevations that are provided carried today from our architect would be just a full brick building to match the brick of the 00:31:12
exist, probably the the add on structure that was built on 19 in 1979. 00:31:19
Umm, if there's, if there's comments on that in terms of additional things that that that Planning Commission would love, would 00:31:30
like to see on something like that again, if you guys approve that, we'd still have to go through the building department to make 00:31:35
sure that that's. 00:31:39
Complies with all of city standards and everything else on where you're sitting in the back corner. Sorry to cut you off, but 00:31:45
you're good with a second. I mean, it looks like you've you're proposing something that's a two-story building. Yeah, there with 00:31:51
the setbacks basically right up against the fence. 00:31:57
Umm, so I don't know does is this in a zone that allows for? 00:32:05
No setbacks and. 00:32:12
The roof to be at that height. 00:32:15
Yeah. So as long as we're not approaching a residential zone. So we've got the back parking lot of the commercial project to the 00:32:18
West and then to the north is the canal. 00:32:23
So it's the canal what ends the canal set in the same commercial zone. 00:32:29
I don't know. 00:32:35
I don't know if it is. Hold on, sorry. That would be the only concern there is suddenly a neighbor across the canal is now looking 00:32:37
at a giant wall where you know, trees and a fence was. 00:32:42
The location of the building, that's not something that is really negotiable. It's controlled by the zone. 00:32:48
So it will meet the standards of the zone, whatever those setbacks are. 00:32:54
And then #8 just is no addition of lighting within the parking lot and we. 00:33:03
Proposing anything so. 00:33:07
All righty. 00:33:13
Was there commissioners, any other questions for the applicant at this time just going back to the doors, particularly on the 00:33:18
front side and where that historical? 00:33:23
House, I know that it was brought to her attention that kind of the wood adds like at least some. 00:33:29
Some dimension or some heaviness there that would keep it a little closer to the original period of the house and looking. I know 00:33:41
you stated like 711 and you said that wasn't a real accurate depiction on what you were thinking, but just wondering if we 00:33:48
couldn't get, you know it to meet what you're needing. 00:33:56
But a little bit more period looking doors, not quite so contemporary. 00:34:04
Umm, not quite so. 00:34:11
Industrial looking, I don't know if you are familiar. 00:34:13
The Fox Market that just went in the added metal doors to the front of their shop, but they're a little bit more. 00:34:18
Ornate, thank you. A little bit more ornate, a little bit more to them than just an industrial looking metal door. 00:34:28
Where's that Fox market? It's on. 00:34:38
Holiday Blvd. Holiday Blvd. And like what? Just right down the street here on your way out, Maybe just cruise by. Take a look. 00:34:42
Yeah, cool. 00:34:53
Just a little further South Down the road here. 00:34:57
On the West Side and not saying that that's what they tried to go with kind of the older period of holiday. 00:35:00
And trying to make it, you know, match a little bit. So just a suggestion if, you know, we're coming back anyway, maybe something 00:35:09
that you could look at that would be a little bit more appealing to the historical side of things. 00:35:15
Well, and I would say for this body, I would it would be a requirement to know what kind of door you're actually putting in there. 00:35:22
Not an approximate idea of, but like here's what we're putting in sort of. And I would say that even on that east side of the 00:35:30
building, you know where you're saying that it's, it was built in 1979. I understand what you're saying there, but it is when 00:35:37
building and there needs to it needs to look like it's, it's when building and it fits. 00:35:44
That I worry a little bit with that being with the address on it just being, you know, more of a modern look. Yeah, I guess we can 00:35:52
get that a little bit more to blend in. Yeah, I guess on the front, I'm fine. If, if there's something that we can't come together 00:35:58
on the front, we would probably just leave it. 00:36:04
OK. On the east side again. 00:36:10
I mean, this is the hard part when we were talking with Carrie and staff is. 00:36:13
I debated even putting this stuff in here because. 00:36:18
Staff had told me that it's not part of the historical site in terms of the structure because it was added on and so I. 00:36:22
You know the side of the site. We would really like to do that on the front. We understand, we understand some of the concern. 00:36:32
With it being visible from. 00:36:39
Murray Holiday Rd. 00:36:42
But I would ask, I would ask the Planning Commission to. 00:36:45
Let us move forward on the East side. So Carrie, just so that we understand on this, does he not need? 00:36:49
A conditional use to be able to do that on the east side. Would he not meet if he wasn't doing what he's doing on the front part? 00:36:57
Would he even need to come to us to have to know he would? So anything that's modified on the site where it's considered 00:37:04
substantial according to the the code that's in the staff report. And you can see like on that rear edition, there's still 00:37:11
historical elements that are incorporated in with like the arched windows around there. 00:37:17
So that's. 00:37:26
When they built the addition, they're still incorporating those historical features. And I think that yes, you still need to 00:37:27
incorporate some. 00:37:31
Tie in kind of transition between the two. And I was going to suggest that maybe on your on your doors, if you have some sort of 00:37:35
fill either adding some millions on your windows so that they're obtained window or some arched kind of features like this or 00:37:42
transom something that you're tying in your architectural element maybe in a in a door design. Yeah, again, I think on the on the 00:37:49
on the South side. 00:37:56
We could. I mean, I have no problem with going back to looking at the Fox market and providing some other suggestions on that on 00:38:05
the East side. 00:38:09
We would we would really like to incorporate what we have currently planned. 00:38:16
Would there be? 00:38:25
I'm looking at the style of these windows with the cross sections on them, and that's a similar look that the five stores have on 00:38:28
their, kind of like a paint iron if you did some cross sections across the top of these transom windows so they tie in like that. 00:38:36
Yeah, so we have, I mean we're so all those big black lines are mullions. 00:38:48
On this part, so maybe just adding like a cross? 00:38:53
One this way that still to me looks very modern in design. It's not. I wouldn't say that that necessarily would go along with the 00:38:57
historical look of that building. 00:39:03
That if you were able to incorporate some of what Carrie is saying, it might blend a little better with the historical. 00:39:09
I think there's there's some space to. 00:39:25
Maybe modify that slightly so that it's? 00:39:28
Still accomplishes, Eric. You can still do kind of that metal modern door, but make it look more traditional with adding some more 00:39:32
mullions that tie this in or some arched features looking at the architecture of the. 00:39:39
Of the structure, The historical structure. 00:39:46
Even the, you know, the brick arches on that 1979 structure above those windows adds, you know, a little bit more period detail. 00:39:49
Yeah. I don't think we would have the ability inside that code to do it because it goes all the way up to that. There's a there's 00:39:57
a cross beam steel header that goes at the at the top of that I. 00:40:04
Current window design that's in there in place. 00:40:13
So we're just taking that from. 00:40:16
Below that. 00:40:18
Steelhead are replacing that window. 00:40:20
Well, at this point, we're pretty much just providing feedback and food for thought because you know, when it ultimately comes 00:40:27
back to us, if it's, you know. 00:40:31
Not going to be something that. 00:40:36
The majority feel confident and comfortable with then it would be a lot of pain to go through that process for. 00:40:39
An undesirable outcome, so we're just trying to give suggestions on what could be. 00:40:46
Some opportunities there. I mean, going back to Carrie's, I don't have. 00:40:52
I mean, going back to Carrie's suggestion on. 00:40:56
The cross section, yeah. 00:41:00
So I mean so this so this. 00:41:02
So there's nothing, there's not actually forever above this. So this is, this is an existing steel hydrogen in there. 00:41:08
This, all of this design here is just this wood frame right now that's painted and it has those two other doors. 00:41:15
We're just simply taking that out and replacing it. 00:41:23
Windows. 00:41:27
Black instead of painted purpley color, these would be black. 00:41:29
I don't have it like you know, we can incorporate some cross sections of additional booleans. 00:41:38
To try to trade. 00:41:46
I'm no design architect, but maybe even just that bar across the top that you're proposing, even if you just did like an arc bar 00:41:53
across the top of that to kind of tie it in, you know what I'm saying? I'm, I'm not saying you can't have your doors and it has to 00:41:58
be 1909 specific. I'm just. 00:42:03
Yeah. 00:42:10
Right there, so right above this steel energy that goes from the original mansion to the new structure. 00:42:11
So this this structure here, really what all we're doing is instead of, you know, larger painted wood, this is just going to be 00:42:21
metal millions. So this is the exact same window structure that I'm proposing instead of doing. 00:42:29
230 door. 00:42:38
Get a little bit bigger, but the same glass. 00:42:41
Portion of it in terms of where these annoyance and cross sections are or exactly what. 00:42:47
Yeah. I'm wondering if even on the doors if they could do some sort of fill or those doors have just a slight arch on them and 00:42:54
like a larger bodied frame, if they could just fill a glass door with some extra trim so that it mimics that look, the visual 00:43:00
weightiness. 00:43:06
Without necessarily having to keep a wood door, yeah, So maybe that maybe that door has a bigger frame and just mimics, yes. 00:43:13
Yeah. 00:43:22
Just a little bit more detail. I like the idea of the transom window thing, but. 00:43:24
Adding some extra millions there so pulls that that line across. 00:43:29
From like these windows or from this front kind of middle center window where you just have oh, add more guidelines on the 00:43:35
transoms. Yep, just on the upper one. Are you thinking more horizontal, vertical? 00:43:42
Either 1:00 I definitely horizontal, but you can kind of get the feel of a vertical one almost here with how this is laid out, 00:43:51
which I think adds to it as well. 00:43:58
This one. 00:44:08
Oh, sorry, yeah. 00:44:10
Yeah. So you're incorporating smaller. Yeah, I think that that adds to kind of that traditional look that maybe is missing. Yeah, 00:44:15
yeah. So it's still you can keep that kind of modern structure, but by adding some fill to your glass door, you can make it look 00:44:22
more traditional for sure. 00:44:29
And if I may, this would be my well. 00:44:39
I'll just jump in with this quick suggestion. 00:44:41
So I'm not telling you they're the deciding factor. I'm just telling you that would carry a lot away with me specific personally. 00:45:16
And if you don't mind, I want to just touch on trees real quick here. So when you bring back your landscape plan, I would like to 00:45:24
know where the can I just say a comment before, before we move on? I I think. 00:45:30
I agree in that. 00:45:37
I mean, this is not a, the old thing is not a period door. I don't think it's fair to say you got to do a 1981, I mean, in 18, you 00:45:39
know, 1877 door, like that's, that's not what we're asking. But I think just just the nod in in these small ways while keeping 00:45:46
the, the glass and the openness and that sense that it is 2024, but we're using this historic building in a way today that makes 00:45:54
it relevant instead of knocking it down. I think that's I think that's huge. And so I actually, you know, I. 00:46:01
I appreciate that you are, you know, keeping the brick on the the little brick walkway on the front. You're thinking, you know, 00:46:09
you're considering wrought iron on the side. I think that those are the right moves in terms of saying we're not asking you to. 00:46:16
Restore a historical building, but it's a special place for holiday. And so I think just coming back with a little bit more 00:46:24
specificity on on those, a couple of these nods to that period. 00:46:29
Yep, great shout out. 00:46:36
So as far as the trees go, like I say, landscape plan would like to know what trees are replacing what. 00:46:40
And because it's it's limited on your property, right, like you don't have a ton of green space on there. And one concern I have 00:46:48
is I understand that those aspens aren't really properly placed. I get that they haven't been properly placed for 20 years that 00:46:54
they've been in there however long, but they do provide a certain shade aspect to the parking lot, which the columnar, I can't 00:47:00
even pronounce it Evergreen that's going in there is. 00:47:06
Not going to do. 00:47:13
Yeah, from a shade perspective, I mean, you can see from this, I mean those trees are not going to provide any more shade than the 00:47:15
actual height of the building. 00:47:20
I have no problem with putting together a landscape plan and proposing what we're proposing to do. 00:47:27
The placement of those with the with the amount of space you have between the building and. 00:47:36
The sidewalk, the problem with the way that those trees grow, as they grow, they don't go down, right? And so we actually ended up 00:47:42
inside the building on that W wall when we were tearing out the drywall. 00:47:49
All of that insulation there had mold. And guess what we found in the walls? Oh, yeah, there's there's no question that Aspen, 00:47:57
Aspen tree roots, right? There's no question it's not the right tree in the right place. You can understand the concern of getting 00:48:01
rid of those and. 00:48:06
What I was going to suggest is maybe since you're tearing out the garage and moving that. 00:48:10
Perhaps another landscape island or another opportunity to put in? Maybe a large tree island somewhere in there. 00:48:18
Hey, that's way too much money. It's going to cost, you know, I'm $1,000,000 to Plumb in a tree island or something. I understand 00:48:54
that it's just a suggestion, but I would like to see a landscape plan of what's going in and those type of things. And then that's 00:49:00
a good point though, because these, these two trees in front, is it 2 exactly? There's two, yeah, those two large that are, that 00:49:06
are blocking sort of the the visibility from the street. 00:49:12
It's hard to know if those are going to be replaced. 00:49:19
No, it's all put together a landscape plan. It'll probably be a two page plan, one that shows that the trees were removing and 00:49:23
then another new plan of where the new trees are being planted. 00:49:27
Type. That's really easy for us to do. 00:49:32
And quick note on our tree canopy replacement applicants do have the option to plant trees off site. So if they're running into an 00:49:34
issue where they can't fit 10 trees on the side of that is you can find one in my yard, you can. You can plant them elsewhere. I 00:49:42
think there's a specific distance, but we can. 00:49:50
How far do you live? 00:49:59
And also, there's a lot to be said for line of sight trimming too, that can be done for some existing, which it sounds like it's 00:50:04
already being planned for some of those in there, which I think is great. Some of them do need the TLC. But those were kind of the 00:50:09
the sticking points for me when I look at this as far as what it's lacking to to move it forward right now. Commissioners, was 00:50:15
there any other points why we got the applicant or questions for the applicant? Why standing up at the podium? 00:50:21
The trees, the trees along the fence, I mean, it looks like the fence has sort of grown in and through around them or you know, 00:50:28
the trees grew, I guess. And so it, it just the comment was they'll either be thinned out or removed. 00:50:35
Umm. 00:50:44
Is there the challenge with those is like we had a full arborist report which was included in your report. And I would say half 00:50:46
those trees are determined to be sickly enough that you can see in this, this was the picture that was taken maybe a week, week 00:50:53
and a half ago by the arborist report that was provided to Carrie and staff that half those trees are. 00:51:00
Could be determined by the arborist to be not healthy enough to. 00:51:08
To give a determination that it's an existing tree, right? So I guess that might actually open up more space to replace trees 00:51:14
along the fences. 00:51:17
Right. If you're removing trees from those from those fence lines or that there might be some space to plant replacement trees in 00:51:25
that area. And so then you're, and that is really the intent of the tree canopy sustainability is that you're, yes you are 00:51:31
removing trees, but you're replacing them with trees which is replenishing the canopy with healthy mature canopy canopy. It's not 00:51:37
going to be mature tomorrow, but. 00:51:43
In 10 years, it's going to be in a lot better condition than what is there currently, right? 00:51:49
All right. Well, if there's no other questions for the applicant, thank you for letting us pick your brain and go through this. 00:51:56
We'll go ahead and have you sit down and then we will open the public hearing and there's no one here to comment so. 00:52:02
We'll just need a motion to continue the hearing and continue this item to the next one. Motion, right? 00:52:10
Just continue, leave it open, leave the public hearing open, and continue this to the next. 00:52:15
Regular meeting when the. 00:52:21
And the other items have been provided. It works for me. Does anyone want to make that motion? 00:52:22
Commissioner Cunningham and I'll make the motion that we continue this meeting and leave the public hearing open. 00:52:28
OK, why second the motion? All right. It's been seconded. We're a small enough body. Any opposed? All in favor say aye, Aye. Done. 00:52:34
Just as a question. 00:52:45
Next. 00:52:48
We have training scheduled for the 25th. 00:52:51
And I can do. 00:52:59
Adding with the goods. 00:53:21
That have the direction you can. 00:53:23
Yep. 00:53:33
Thank you. And with that I think we can. 00:53:35
Motion to adjourn. All in favour. Aye aye, Don. 00:53:39
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Is it just a coincidence that we just did the ordinance and now we have A and now we have one, but the ordinance is not passed 00:00:03
City Council yet, so hanging out there. OK, so we're on there. 00:00:09
So this is preordinance, right? Preordinance. All right. So there might be some of the changes in the future, but as is, we 00:00:17
evaluated this application under the existing code. 00:00:23
So the modifications on this pretty thorough in the applicants submission. 00:00:30
I detailed some of the history of the site. 00:00:39
Primarily the house was built the historic houses in the front of the property. There is an addition in 1979 on the rear side of 00:00:44
the property. 00:00:48
That incorporated a lot of the same elements that you can see in the main house, with the exception of maybe some different brick, 00:00:54
but you know. 00:00:58
Different time periods. So the modifications that the applicant is requesting is a tree removals, painting, window trim, 00:01:03
replacement of the South side entrance door and the east side entrance store. 00:01:12
Fencing and then adding removing a existing. 00:01:23
Garage and carport on the site in the parking lot and then building a new one. The applicant sent me over. 00:01:29
Architectural detail for the new garage, so we can look at that. 00:01:38
And then some details on the storefront. 00:01:45
The staff report had a detailed review from John as to each of the items that were submitted for changes with a recommendation for 00:01:50
each of those. And I think maybe if we just start there, if there's any questions on those recommendations. 00:01:59
My only question is how did it get to be yellow? Because that certainly wasn't the historic color of the on the front of the 00:02:11
brick. 00:02:15
That front doorway, Oh yeah. So the the doors that are there are likely not they were not there from the beginning. You could see 00:02:19
in the. 00:02:23
In the article that was attached, I'm probably just a pretty basic door, but that was in 1979. 00:02:29
As well. 00:02:38
So the original door at some point went away. So what's there is what is there. 00:02:40
So we still have no landscape plan. 00:02:59
Other than just the trees being removed and then there's still like three of them questioning on what they're being replaced with 00:03:02
and where. Right, yes. And the applicant was talking to me about that today. So he'll have some proposed trees. I was going to 00:03:09
send him a the tree recommendation list. I'll likely pick something from that recommended list or if the Commission has any 00:03:16
suggestions as as you may. 00:03:24
I got a few. 00:03:32
And then what about the the fencing on the West side is there, there wasn't any details provided as to what the fencing would be 00:03:35
replaced with, but you can ask the question of the applicant of what they were envisioning for that. 00:03:43
Historically possibly doing like a an iron or black kind of open fence on the front of the property limited to the four feet in 00:03:52
height and then the rear of the property is is more open. 00:03:58
And then there's nothing that I saw calling out what the plan was. So they're demolishing the garage on the east side of the 00:04:10
parking lot in the back and moving that to the further back. What's going where the garage was? Is that called out on anything? It 00:04:15
would just be parking. 00:04:21
So this would be essentially adding new parking to it then? 00:04:29
And then taking out some parking where the new garage would be going. 00:04:34
All right, And as far as the doors go. 00:04:45
What's being proposed as a Glass Modern? Looks like a 711 storefront kind of, right? A typical commercial. 00:04:49
Upgraded. 00:05:03
OK. 00:05:06
I don't know from whatever the cut and paste picture I was I saw in the packet. 00:05:08
Don't worry, we'll jump in as soon as we get the real meeting. We're just in our work meeting still. These are these are new 00:05:16
elevations that were sent over to me today. So we can look at those, but that's. 00:05:22
Slightly different than Is that the side or the front? This looks like it's the side because here's the. 00:05:33
The roof overhang. This looks like the front. 00:05:42
Is that the front? Oh, this is the east side. 00:05:47
And then is this site also east? Oh God, it's all east side. 00:05:54
And then this is the detail for the new garage. 00:06:01
So kind of angle to fit at the angled portion of the property on the back? 00:06:12
And before everybody got here, I was advised by council that there was notification sent out, but it was only the immediate, not 00:06:20
the norm. Is that right? Like there was a limit on the the standard notification for this public hearing? 00:06:27
So it might be something we want to just continue to ensure that. 00:06:47
We're meeting due process on everything and then. 00:06:51
Conversely, have the applicant address anything that doesn't get answered here tonight. 00:06:55
OK. 00:07:11
All right. Any other questions for city staff on this before we jump in and start the official? 00:07:14
No. All right. With that, we'll close the work meeting and Carrie and let me know when we're ready to switch gears into the real 00:07:22
thing. 00:07:26
We can just jump right in. All righty, jumping in it is. Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Holiday Planning Commission, June 00:07:33
4th, 2024. In attendance we have Commissioner Gong Velcinski and Cunningham. 00:07:39
And Chair Roach and then we have City Council Brad Kostofferson and City staff Kerry Marsh. And we have one item on the agenda for 00:07:45
the Brenton House Historic Site modification permit. Brad, do we need to read the opening statement if the applicants the only one 00:07:51
here? 00:07:56
All right. Well, since there is nobody from the public here, then we will omit the general opening statement that we begin with 00:08:03
and we will just move right into the first item and carry. You kind of touched on this in the week work meeting, but if you want 00:08:08
to give us the quick brief. 00:08:14
Recap. 00:08:21
Figure it's always better to be official at the podium. 00:08:33
OK, so this application is for historic site modifications, which is the conditional use for the Brenton House, which is a 00:08:37
historic home and site at 1981 E Murray Holiday Rd. 00:08:44
The existing property has a historical home on the east. I'm sorry, not the east side, the South side with a addition that was 00:08:53
added onto the north side of the home in 1979. 00:09:00
The applicant is proposing a replacement of the front doors on the South side and then the east doors next to the parking lot. 00:09:08
Those are detailed in their presentation I. 00:09:15
The other modifications are site landscaping, removing trees on the east side of the building aspens, and then replacing those 00:09:24
with some columnar evergreens. Three other trees on the site shown as being removed. They would be replaced. 00:09:34
The applicant would need to submit a landscape plan showing the replacement location for those 3 trees. 00:09:45
Let's see. 00:09:52
The applicants also proposing to demolish a. 00:09:55
Detached garage and a carport on the side. They're both within the parking lot and demolishing those. They would build a larger 00:09:59
garage on the north side of the property. Other modifications on the structure, painting all the window trims, trim and. 00:10:08
Black and the applicant can detail if that's also going to include the soffit and fascia, but I didn't see that in their 00:10:18
application. 00:10:22
Um, let's see, I think that is all of the points on there. There is a canopy that they were proposing on the east side as well. 00:10:26
The staff recommendation is just adding some more ornate detailing, so it kind of ties in with the historical architecture and 00:10:36
then. 00:10:40
Possibly modifying the doors so that they have more visual weight instead of a more typical glass retail door style. And I'll have 00:10:46
the applicant come up, they can go through kind of their presentation. They have that pulled up and can answer any questions that 00:10:54
the Commission has. All right, thank you very much. 00:11:02
And if we can invite the applicant or representative, I have Katie on here. I'm just gonna make a ventured guess that you are not 00:11:10
Katie. I'm not Katie. OK. And what is your name? Ben Wheat. Ben what? Ben Wheat. Wheat. Yep. Thank you. Just like the bread. 00:11:19
All right, Ben. 00:11:31
Just a little back story on this, um. 00:11:39
We just recently purchased this building. 00:11:42
We're going to use it for our headquarters. The company that I work for is Roderick Enterprises. We're a local land developer and 00:11:47
property owner. We've been in business since 1956. We've been established in Murray for the past 17 years on a building on Vine 00:11:53
Street and. 00:11:59
We've just grown out of that building and then. 00:12:07
Saw that Kurt was selling this and had a lot of attraction. Our company has some old ties. Our founding partner just grew up right 00:12:11
across the street from this. They used to be in the oil and gas service. They owned the Chevron gas station off of 45th South and 00:12:18
23rd East. And so we were excited for the opportunity. So we will be making the 1st floor kind of our headquarters for our main 00:12:25
operations and so. 00:12:32
As part of this. 00:12:40
Application that we think the building is in great shape, Kurt's done a great job in maintaining it. There's just some things that 00:12:42
we as as part of kind of freshening up is is really behind the majority of this application so. 00:12:49
Kind of like Carrie pointed out, there's we've got kind of several things on page 2. 00:13:00
It kind of goes over what the suggested conditions of approval were from from staff the 1st. 00:13:08
Thing that we're proposing is painting the window transfation railing to be black. 00:13:15
In the. 00:13:22
Slideshow presentation to carry. Yeah. So we try to, what we try to do here was just give staff what just a realistic version of 00:13:23
what we're proposing so. 00:13:29
We just had our architects try to do their best job. So really we're just, we're not changing any of the. 00:13:38
We're not changing any of the structure on the. 00:13:45
Old the Britain mansion we're just simply painting the windows soffit and fascia and then like discussed earlier, replacing the 00:13:50
entrance doors that are not part of the original structure with it's a storefront door. So it's it's metal black million metal 00:13:58
millions with. 00:14:05
Tempered glass and so this will be a 40X70 door with two side lights on either side just to fulfill that. 00:14:14
Current 6 foot opening. 00:14:22
Part of that is. 00:14:25
That when we started talking to the attorney that's been there for a long time and just some addressing some of her concerns and 00:14:29
we have some some some of the same concerns on the east entrance in terms of replacing that door. It's, it's an old door, it's 00:14:35
drafty. It's not period specific to the actual mansion aspect of it. So part of the process was to try to renovate her space a 00:14:42
little bit and and. 00:14:49
Address some of the concerns that she's had as a tenant from for a long time from the previous ownership. 00:14:57
So that's kind of the first bullet point in terms of what we're asking to do. 00:15:04
The second is the we talked a little bit about it, just putting the new doors on, on the front and back. 00:15:10
Excuse me? 00:15:18
I incorporated this in part of the application in talking with Carrie and the staff. I mean, this part of the structure that's not 00:15:21
part of the mansion is not really part of the historical structure. But just to be completely transparent on what we're doing with 00:15:28
the entire project, we just decided to add this to the to the overall application. Same thing here. We would just be painting 00:15:34
windows, soffit fascia, kind of that darker black color. 00:15:41
The exhibit that carriage set that Carrier had up earlier. 00:15:48
We're not actually putting a canopy on here. The kind of that 3D rendering right there that you can see on your screen, it's just 00:15:52
a black frame that will frame that entrance. 00:15:57
Out, so there's not actually a. 00:16:03
There's kind of a built in canopy you can kind of see there's a little bit of a Cove that's covered and that's kind of the 00:16:06
transition between the mansion and the newer structure that was built in 79. 00:16:10
So this was my, this was probably my fault. We were trying to render kind of a again, a before and after to try to give staff an 00:16:16
understanding of what it would look like. But we're not doing the that that's called an eyebrow where you've got the yeah. So 00:16:24
that's not depicted in the in the, the 3D rendering that we have. And this is part of what we've got established with our building 00:16:31
permit that's currently being reviewed with the building department on the, the TI aspect of. So the frame is going to. 00:16:38
And it's partially going to cover the. 00:16:46
Whatever you want to call that hexagon slanted facing out wall. 00:16:50
Yeah. And and kind of the idea is. 00:16:55
For the entrance and then this is going to establish just a crossbar and then that's what 1981? 00:17:01
So there won't be any physical canopy, that's for sure. 00:17:08
Out into the. 00:17:11
Into the camp people, this this is. 00:17:14
Kind of picture this without the eyebrow and the. 00:17:18
Crosshand, it's just going to be a metal frame that goes here and then AC channel that goes here, all painted black and we're just 00:17:22
using that as markers were the address of 1981. So it's going to look going back to the existing structure. 00:17:30
It's just a black frame and again, this isn't part technically. I mean carry current. If I'm wrong maybe you and Jerry changed 00:17:38
your mind, but this wasn't we. 00:17:44
And some of those conversations, it's is this part of the historical structure? It's not because it was added in 79, but. 00:17:50
Yeah. 00:18:00
So no canopies, it's just that metal. It's just that metal frame around the opening and then again the storefront that would be 00:18:01
replaced the existing kind of yellow doors. 00:18:06
And wood frame. 00:18:12
And, and the glass on the front is frosted, but this, No, it'll be clear. Yeah, that's it. It won't be frosted. It'll be clear 00:18:14
glass just like this. This one's clear. But the front one on the front is going to be clear as well. Yes. OK, So looking at what's 00:18:20
in there now contrasted, I mean, I'm just curious. 00:18:26
If we can go back to sorry to the other graphic that he brought in. 00:18:34
I mean, are they significantly different? 00:18:42
I mean, aside from the double doors, right, So the double doors get replaced. That's a four Oh, by eight. Oh, so it's four feet 00:18:45
wide by 8 feet tall and then that that. 00:18:49
To that just has two large sidelights and then that. 00:18:53
So that whole entrance, the two yellow doors and then all the windows around it, that whole portion of it will be replaced with 00:18:57
the black storefront mullion glass. 00:19:03
OK, I'll just. 00:19:10
I'm wrapping my mind around it, sorry. I'll circle back to that thought later. 00:19:23
So that's number two, um. 00:19:28
#3 was the awning again, we're not doing an awning. So that I mean we don't I guess we can that's tabled or we don't need to. 00:19:32
You're doing a crossbar essentially, right, correct. Yep. 00:19:37
And the crossbar will not sit out past the Nope building. It's going to stay inside that. 00:19:43
**** eyed wall and the other wall, Yeah, just exactly like that, yeah. 00:19:50
#4 would just be a fence replacement in accordance with holiday fence regulations obviously. 00:19:56
Portions of that fence are just have been neglected in terms of maintenance and the large tree growth that's that is happening on 00:20:02
the West side. We haven't proposed anything in terms of fence material that's there in in terms of looking at the code that's 00:20:08
that's monitored all by code probably something like this in terms of the metal, metal rod fencing is probably what we would do up 00:20:14
here on the front of this. 00:20:20
The rest of this in the back is like a six foot chain link fence and then some of this is that wood fence there on the West side. 00:20:27
I mean part of this is. 00:20:37
Because this is the historical site. So all of these, we just wanted to stay within policy and above board that we're bringing all 00:20:39
of these items to. 00:20:44
To staff and appointing Commission, but I. 00:20:50
We just wanted to make sure that kind of everyone knew what we were doing. 00:20:55
So we don't, you don't know currently what that fence is going to be or you haven't committed to anything. Yeah. So we don't know 00:21:00
material. But again, there's code that's put in place that we would have to. 00:21:04
In regards to the replacement of that fence. 00:21:10
With it being historic site, there's. 00:21:13
A little bit of nuance to that, right? 00:21:15
Yeah. I mean, my question is, you know, again, we don't have a plan. 00:21:19
That and there's a lot of no real plan or something changed from the agenda and everything. I'm really concerned this whole thing 00:21:25
was premature to be in front of us because everything's changing. 00:21:31
We spent the time to look at a packet Sunday and now it's all different and that. 00:21:38
With the fencing in particular, I guess my question is there's a lot of things that are allowed under the code. 00:21:44
That may not make sense on a historic site. And it's kind of like we're being asked to give blanket permission. As long as you 00:21:50
follow the code, it's okay, but the purpose is to make sure it maintains the historic character and that. And so without knowing 00:21:57
what you're going to build the fence, I, I don't know how I could ever vote on it and then I. 00:22:03
I think there's a whole bunch of that in this proposal that it's evolving and we don't have the details in that. We're probably 00:22:10
not going to vote on it tonight anyway because of the noticing problem and that which might be a saving grace the next time. We 00:22:17
should have all these details in the packet and the plan and that because I can't vote on a fence, for example, until I know what 00:22:25
proposed, saying that it's compliant with the code isn't sufficient to say whether or not it meets. 00:22:32
Historical. 00:22:40
The look of the historical building and the lot that we're trying to keep, it's a, it's a beautiful building. I, I, you know. 00:22:41
It's great but you could put up another 6 foot. 00:22:47
Wooden fence and that would meet the code, but it may not. 00:22:52
Or a chain link fence for that matter. And I would, I would say that if there's any guidance that you'd like to provide the 00:22:56
applicant on maybe what you'd like to see, so it's not just taking a shot in the dark, it's OK, here's here's some possible 00:23:05
parameters like a darker colored vinyl or darker colored wood. Or if there's any material specifics that you think would be. 00:23:13
Kind of. 00:23:22
Well, not to derail, maybe. 00:23:25
Yeah, it's a great suggestion and it's a great point, Paul. I think what we'll do is we'll allow Mr. Wheat to finish, you know, 00:23:27
kind of walking us through everything on here and we'll just kind of ask you some questions as we go along. But then maybe we can 00:23:33
make some recommendations on what we'd like to see with the motion that will probably be to continue. 00:23:39
For a future meeting, I would recommend opening the public hearing just Emma, then continuing it. OK. 00:23:46
For the neck, till the next time, OK. Speaking of noticing that the historical committee get notified. 00:23:53
If anyone would have shown up tonight, I would have thought the historical committee would have been here after our last meeting. 00:23:59
And that and I'm guessing they don't live within 500 feet so they weren't noticed. 00:24:05
Well, I mean, the agenda was published properly, right? So if they're paying attention to the agenda, they would have had noticed 00:24:11
that way just like the rest of the public. 00:24:15
But I don't think there's any special consideration or notice given to the Historical Commission as they are not a legislative 00:24:21
body. 00:24:25
I think the historic commissions job is to facilitate placement as a historic building and I know that that's part of this 00:24:30
discussion with the council is what role should they play. And so that's kind of evolving. My understanding is the Historical 00:24:37
Commission would like to play a much bigger role. Sure. And there's some tension between the council on that. 00:24:43
So personally, I I would rather have someone historical committee talk about what kind of defense they think. 00:24:50
Is historical. They would know a whole lot more than I would. 00:24:57
So I mean there's not a requirement for the applicant to. 00:25:01
Discuss plans with the Historical Commission. But it could be advisable if they wanted to take some ideas to them and then resent 00:25:05
those so then they can come back and say. 00:25:10
We've discussed this with the historical committee. These were their suggestions. It may help things with some guidance for the 00:25:16
Planning Commission. You're possibly feeling like you don't have all of the. 00:25:23
Historical background to make some of the historical design calls that maybe the historical committee might, or if the applicant 00:25:31
has. 00:25:35
You know some backup on here is this. This is why it is historical and kind of tying that in. 00:25:40
So there's there's some options there that with continuing it can come back with some some more details that would fill in the 00:25:48
some of those Gray areas for the Commission. So not a legal requirement, but a strong suggestion. 00:25:56
To solicit their feedback. 00:26:04
All right, that makes sense. 00:26:09
So, Ben, we just talked right over you there for a couple of minutes. You wanna walk us through the rest of this now? Yeah. Again, 00:26:11
I don't necessarily know if I mean, again, going back to the starting one, painting of windows, trim and fashion. The railing is 00:26:17
black. That hasn't changed in what we've presented to you. 00:26:22
Rehabilitation of the existing wood doors. The renderings were simply to try to give the Planning Commission some sort of idea of 00:26:29
what we were looking for versus just. 00:26:34
Asking what? Or just blanket asking what we were doing? 00:26:40
We can just delete that just because it's inaccurate from that standpoint for the next meeting. 00:26:44
#3 would be deleted because we're not asking for an awning. 00:26:51
Fence replacement. 00:26:56
Yeah. I mean, I guess I kind of agree with Carrie in terms of some direction of. 00:26:58
We don't it's, I mean, the fence is in pretty bad shape as it is. So I think, I think whatever we would probably propose. 00:27:04
Would be better than that, but I. 00:27:14
Long as it's not barbed wire, right? Yeah. Are you tearing out this brick wall in front or is that that's going to stay OK. All 00:27:17
right. Just double checking. Thank you. 00:27:22
Yeah. 00:27:28
So I mean, yeah, the fencing, the fencing is, the fencing around the property is, is. 00:27:30
Along the West side is probably the worst side, which is what I've provided. Carrie is the examples here. On the north and east 00:27:37
side it's just chain link fencing with. 00:27:42
Privacy slats as you can kind of see there, I mean if if the requirement from. 00:27:51
The staff or historical committees is. 00:27:58
To continue a brick wall, we would probably just leave it just because of a cost standpoint, right? You know, we were probably 00:28:01
going to do on that West side some sort of wrought iron fencing along as long as it meant that the city code. We're not going to 00:28:07
do a vinyl fence or something that would look completely out of place. 00:28:13
With the historical building aspect of it. 00:28:21
#5 is landscaping plan showing replacement trees in accordance with holiday code? 00:28:26
I yeah, so I don't have AI, don't I can get, I can get my landscape engineer to do an actual landscape plan. 00:28:34
These were the trees that we're going to replace one for one with a columnar Aspen. 00:28:42
These or a columnar cupercino, which is a small skinny Evergreen Evergreen tree. These are way too close to the building. 00:28:49
And provide a lot of issues from an insurance standpoint from fire safety. 00:29:01
And growing and getting leaves in the gutters and those types of things. So. 00:29:07
And then, yeah, so then you can kind of see. 00:29:13
That's those are the ones that write up is these are the ones that were depicted in that picture that we would replace in one for 00:29:17
one. And then the three other trees were the two trees out front part of the *** right there. Part of that is a it's a huge block 00:29:23
to the frontage of the building in terms of from a leaseability standpoint, we'll still have tenants in the mansion in the in the 00:29:28
upstairs and part of. 00:29:34
Providing. 00:29:41
Visibility to that site as we try to attract tenants to occupy the vacant space in there, we just feel that that's that's a huge 00:29:43
deterrent. So we would want to. 00:29:47
Take those trees down and relocate them on site. 00:29:52
And again, if staff thinks that. 00:29:58
Landscape plan is necessary for that. I'm happy to provide it. 00:30:02
Umm, 6 and seven kind of go hand in hand. It's so carry scroll up. Sorry, just right. 00:30:09
Yeah, right there. So we, we personally think that the placement of the existing garage takes away from the historical aspect of 00:30:18
the site. As you can see this I. 00:30:24
From the street level of Murray Holiday Blvd. it has. 00:30:31
Absolutely no correlation or tie in of the existing structure. There's nothing historically color wise, brick material, or 00:30:36
anything wise that ties into the. 00:30:41
Historical structure of the site. 00:30:48
Our proposal would be to tear that down. That would that would add an additional 5 parking stalls there and then to tear down the. 00:30:51
Carport in the back and then relocate that garage in the rear of the building which could not be you can kind of see the carports. 00:30:59
So that's where the new garage would go. So this would be hidden from street site. 00:31:05
The elevations that are provided carried today from our architect would be just a full brick building to match the brick of the 00:31:12
exist, probably the the add on structure that was built on 19 in 1979. 00:31:19
Umm, if there's, if there's comments on that in terms of additional things that that that Planning Commission would love, would 00:31:30
like to see on something like that again, if you guys approve that, we'd still have to go through the building department to make 00:31:35
sure that that's. 00:31:39
Complies with all of city standards and everything else on where you're sitting in the back corner. Sorry to cut you off, but 00:31:45
you're good with a second. I mean, it looks like you've you're proposing something that's a two-story building. Yeah, there with 00:31:51
the setbacks basically right up against the fence. 00:31:57
Umm, so I don't know does is this in a zone that allows for? 00:32:05
No setbacks and. 00:32:12
The roof to be at that height. 00:32:15
Yeah. So as long as we're not approaching a residential zone. So we've got the back parking lot of the commercial project to the 00:32:18
West and then to the north is the canal. 00:32:23
So it's the canal what ends the canal set in the same commercial zone. 00:32:29
I don't know. 00:32:35
I don't know if it is. Hold on, sorry. That would be the only concern there is suddenly a neighbor across the canal is now looking 00:32:37
at a giant wall where you know, trees and a fence was. 00:32:42
The location of the building, that's not something that is really negotiable. It's controlled by the zone. 00:32:48
So it will meet the standards of the zone, whatever those setbacks are. 00:32:54
And then #8 just is no addition of lighting within the parking lot and we. 00:33:03
Proposing anything so. 00:33:07
All righty. 00:33:13
Was there commissioners, any other questions for the applicant at this time just going back to the doors, particularly on the 00:33:18
front side and where that historical? 00:33:23
House, I know that it was brought to her attention that kind of the wood adds like at least some. 00:33:29
Some dimension or some heaviness there that would keep it a little closer to the original period of the house and looking. I know 00:33:41
you stated like 711 and you said that wasn't a real accurate depiction on what you were thinking, but just wondering if we 00:33:48
couldn't get, you know it to meet what you're needing. 00:33:56
But a little bit more period looking doors, not quite so contemporary. 00:34:04
Umm, not quite so. 00:34:11
Industrial looking, I don't know if you are familiar. 00:34:13
The Fox Market that just went in the added metal doors to the front of their shop, but they're a little bit more. 00:34:18
Ornate, thank you. A little bit more ornate, a little bit more to them than just an industrial looking metal door. 00:34:28
Where's that Fox market? It's on. 00:34:38
Holiday Blvd. Holiday Blvd. And like what? Just right down the street here on your way out, Maybe just cruise by. Take a look. 00:34:42
Yeah, cool. 00:34:53
Just a little further South Down the road here. 00:34:57
On the West Side and not saying that that's what they tried to go with kind of the older period of holiday. 00:35:00
And trying to make it, you know, match a little bit. So just a suggestion if, you know, we're coming back anyway, maybe something 00:35:09
that you could look at that would be a little bit more appealing to the historical side of things. 00:35:15
Well, and I would say for this body, I would it would be a requirement to know what kind of door you're actually putting in there. 00:35:22
Not an approximate idea of, but like here's what we're putting in sort of. And I would say that even on that east side of the 00:35:30
building, you know where you're saying that it's, it was built in 1979. I understand what you're saying there, but it is when 00:35:37
building and there needs to it needs to look like it's, it's when building and it fits. 00:35:44
That I worry a little bit with that being with the address on it just being, you know, more of a modern look. Yeah, I guess we can 00:35:52
get that a little bit more to blend in. Yeah, I guess on the front, I'm fine. If, if there's something that we can't come together 00:35:58
on the front, we would probably just leave it. 00:36:04
OK. On the east side again. 00:36:10
I mean, this is the hard part when we were talking with Carrie and staff is. 00:36:13
I debated even putting this stuff in here because. 00:36:18
Staff had told me that it's not part of the historical site in terms of the structure because it was added on and so I. 00:36:22
You know the side of the site. We would really like to do that on the front. We understand, we understand some of the concern. 00:36:32
With it being visible from. 00:36:39
Murray Holiday Rd. 00:36:42
But I would ask, I would ask the Planning Commission to. 00:36:45
Let us move forward on the East side. So Carrie, just so that we understand on this, does he not need? 00:36:49
A conditional use to be able to do that on the east side. Would he not meet if he wasn't doing what he's doing on the front part? 00:36:57
Would he even need to come to us to have to know he would? So anything that's modified on the site where it's considered 00:37:04
substantial according to the the code that's in the staff report. And you can see like on that rear edition, there's still 00:37:11
historical elements that are incorporated in with like the arched windows around there. 00:37:17
So that's. 00:37:26
When they built the addition, they're still incorporating those historical features. And I think that yes, you still need to 00:37:27
incorporate some. 00:37:31
Tie in kind of transition between the two. And I was going to suggest that maybe on your on your doors, if you have some sort of 00:37:35
fill either adding some millions on your windows so that they're obtained window or some arched kind of features like this or 00:37:42
transom something that you're tying in your architectural element maybe in a in a door design. Yeah, again, I think on the on the 00:37:49
on the South side. 00:37:56
We could. I mean, I have no problem with going back to looking at the Fox market and providing some other suggestions on that on 00:38:05
the East side. 00:38:09
We would we would really like to incorporate what we have currently planned. 00:38:16
Would there be? 00:38:25
I'm looking at the style of these windows with the cross sections on them, and that's a similar look that the five stores have on 00:38:28
their, kind of like a paint iron if you did some cross sections across the top of these transom windows so they tie in like that. 00:38:36
Yeah, so we have, I mean we're so all those big black lines are mullions. 00:38:48
On this part, so maybe just adding like a cross? 00:38:53
One this way that still to me looks very modern in design. It's not. I wouldn't say that that necessarily would go along with the 00:38:57
historical look of that building. 00:39:03
That if you were able to incorporate some of what Carrie is saying, it might blend a little better with the historical. 00:39:09
I think there's there's some space to. 00:39:25
Maybe modify that slightly so that it's? 00:39:28
Still accomplishes, Eric. You can still do kind of that metal modern door, but make it look more traditional with adding some more 00:39:32
mullions that tie this in or some arched features looking at the architecture of the. 00:39:39
Of the structure, The historical structure. 00:39:46
Even the, you know, the brick arches on that 1979 structure above those windows adds, you know, a little bit more period detail. 00:39:49
Yeah. I don't think we would have the ability inside that code to do it because it goes all the way up to that. There's a there's 00:39:57
a cross beam steel header that goes at the at the top of that I. 00:40:04
Current window design that's in there in place. 00:40:13
So we're just taking that from. 00:40:16
Below that. 00:40:18
Steelhead are replacing that window. 00:40:20
Well, at this point, we're pretty much just providing feedback and food for thought because you know, when it ultimately comes 00:40:27
back to us, if it's, you know. 00:40:31
Not going to be something that. 00:40:36
The majority feel confident and comfortable with then it would be a lot of pain to go through that process for. 00:40:39
An undesirable outcome, so we're just trying to give suggestions on what could be. 00:40:46
Some opportunities there. I mean, going back to Carrie's, I don't have. 00:40:52
I mean, going back to Carrie's suggestion on. 00:40:56
The cross section, yeah. 00:41:00
So I mean so this so this. 00:41:02
So there's nothing, there's not actually forever above this. So this is, this is an existing steel hydrogen in there. 00:41:08
This, all of this design here is just this wood frame right now that's painted and it has those two other doors. 00:41:15
We're just simply taking that out and replacing it. 00:41:23
Windows. 00:41:27
Black instead of painted purpley color, these would be black. 00:41:29
I don't have it like you know, we can incorporate some cross sections of additional booleans. 00:41:38
To try to trade. 00:41:46
I'm no design architect, but maybe even just that bar across the top that you're proposing, even if you just did like an arc bar 00:41:53
across the top of that to kind of tie it in, you know what I'm saying? I'm, I'm not saying you can't have your doors and it has to 00:41:58
be 1909 specific. I'm just. 00:42:03
Yeah. 00:42:10
Right there, so right above this steel energy that goes from the original mansion to the new structure. 00:42:11
So this this structure here, really what all we're doing is instead of, you know, larger painted wood, this is just going to be 00:42:21
metal millions. So this is the exact same window structure that I'm proposing instead of doing. 00:42:29
230 door. 00:42:38
Get a little bit bigger, but the same glass. 00:42:41
Portion of it in terms of where these annoyance and cross sections are or exactly what. 00:42:47
Yeah. I'm wondering if even on the doors if they could do some sort of fill or those doors have just a slight arch on them and 00:42:54
like a larger bodied frame, if they could just fill a glass door with some extra trim so that it mimics that look, the visual 00:43:00
weightiness. 00:43:06
Without necessarily having to keep a wood door, yeah, So maybe that maybe that door has a bigger frame and just mimics, yes. 00:43:13
Yeah. 00:43:22
Just a little bit more detail. I like the idea of the transom window thing, but. 00:43:24
Adding some extra millions there so pulls that that line across. 00:43:29
From like these windows or from this front kind of middle center window where you just have oh, add more guidelines on the 00:43:35
transoms. Yep, just on the upper one. Are you thinking more horizontal, vertical? 00:43:42
Either 1:00 I definitely horizontal, but you can kind of get the feel of a vertical one almost here with how this is laid out, 00:43:51
which I think adds to it as well. 00:43:58
This one. 00:44:08
Oh, sorry, yeah. 00:44:10
Yeah. So you're incorporating smaller. Yeah, I think that that adds to kind of that traditional look that maybe is missing. Yeah, 00:44:15
yeah. So it's still you can keep that kind of modern structure, but by adding some fill to your glass door, you can make it look 00:44:22
more traditional for sure. 00:44:29
And if I may, this would be my well. 00:44:39
I'll just jump in with this quick suggestion. 00:44:41
So I'm not telling you they're the deciding factor. I'm just telling you that would carry a lot away with me specific personally. 00:45:16
And if you don't mind, I want to just touch on trees real quick here. So when you bring back your landscape plan, I would like to 00:45:24
know where the can I just say a comment before, before we move on? I I think. 00:45:30
I agree in that. 00:45:37
I mean, this is not a, the old thing is not a period door. I don't think it's fair to say you got to do a 1981, I mean, in 18, you 00:45:39
know, 1877 door, like that's, that's not what we're asking. But I think just just the nod in in these small ways while keeping 00:45:46
the, the glass and the openness and that sense that it is 2024, but we're using this historic building in a way today that makes 00:45:54
it relevant instead of knocking it down. I think that's I think that's huge. And so I actually, you know, I. 00:46:01
I appreciate that you are, you know, keeping the brick on the the little brick walkway on the front. You're thinking, you know, 00:46:09
you're considering wrought iron on the side. I think that those are the right moves in terms of saying we're not asking you to. 00:46:16
Restore a historical building, but it's a special place for holiday. And so I think just coming back with a little bit more 00:46:24
specificity on on those, a couple of these nods to that period. 00:46:29
Yep, great shout out. 00:46:36
So as far as the trees go, like I say, landscape plan would like to know what trees are replacing what. 00:46:40
And because it's it's limited on your property, right, like you don't have a ton of green space on there. And one concern I have 00:46:48
is I understand that those aspens aren't really properly placed. I get that they haven't been properly placed for 20 years that 00:46:54
they've been in there however long, but they do provide a certain shade aspect to the parking lot, which the columnar, I can't 00:47:00
even pronounce it Evergreen that's going in there is. 00:47:06
Not going to do. 00:47:13
Yeah, from a shade perspective, I mean, you can see from this, I mean those trees are not going to provide any more shade than the 00:47:15
actual height of the building. 00:47:20
I have no problem with putting together a landscape plan and proposing what we're proposing to do. 00:47:27
The placement of those with the with the amount of space you have between the building and. 00:47:36
The sidewalk, the problem with the way that those trees grow, as they grow, they don't go down, right? And so we actually ended up 00:47:42
inside the building on that W wall when we were tearing out the drywall. 00:47:49
All of that insulation there had mold. And guess what we found in the walls? Oh, yeah, there's there's no question that Aspen, 00:47:57
Aspen tree roots, right? There's no question it's not the right tree in the right place. You can understand the concern of getting 00:48:01
rid of those and. 00:48:06
What I was going to suggest is maybe since you're tearing out the garage and moving that. 00:48:10
Perhaps another landscape island or another opportunity to put in? Maybe a large tree island somewhere in there. 00:48:18
Hey, that's way too much money. It's going to cost, you know, I'm $1,000,000 to Plumb in a tree island or something. I understand 00:48:54
that it's just a suggestion, but I would like to see a landscape plan of what's going in and those type of things. And then that's 00:49:00
a good point though, because these, these two trees in front, is it 2 exactly? There's two, yeah, those two large that are, that 00:49:06
are blocking sort of the the visibility from the street. 00:49:12
It's hard to know if those are going to be replaced. 00:49:19
No, it's all put together a landscape plan. It'll probably be a two page plan, one that shows that the trees were removing and 00:49:23
then another new plan of where the new trees are being planted. 00:49:27
Type. That's really easy for us to do. 00:49:32
And quick note on our tree canopy replacement applicants do have the option to plant trees off site. So if they're running into an 00:49:34
issue where they can't fit 10 trees on the side of that is you can find one in my yard, you can. You can plant them elsewhere. I 00:49:42
think there's a specific distance, but we can. 00:49:50
How far do you live? 00:49:59
And also, there's a lot to be said for line of sight trimming too, that can be done for some existing, which it sounds like it's 00:50:04
already being planned for some of those in there, which I think is great. Some of them do need the TLC. But those were kind of the 00:50:09
the sticking points for me when I look at this as far as what it's lacking to to move it forward right now. Commissioners, was 00:50:15
there any other points why we got the applicant or questions for the applicant? Why standing up at the podium? 00:50:21
The trees, the trees along the fence, I mean, it looks like the fence has sort of grown in and through around them or you know, 00:50:28
the trees grew, I guess. And so it, it just the comment was they'll either be thinned out or removed. 00:50:35
Umm. 00:50:44
Is there the challenge with those is like we had a full arborist report which was included in your report. And I would say half 00:50:46
those trees are determined to be sickly enough that you can see in this, this was the picture that was taken maybe a week, week 00:50:53
and a half ago by the arborist report that was provided to Carrie and staff that half those trees are. 00:51:00
Could be determined by the arborist to be not healthy enough to. 00:51:08
To give a determination that it's an existing tree, right? So I guess that might actually open up more space to replace trees 00:51:14
along the fences. 00:51:17
Right. If you're removing trees from those from those fence lines or that there might be some space to plant replacement trees in 00:51:25
that area. And so then you're, and that is really the intent of the tree canopy sustainability is that you're, yes you are 00:51:31
removing trees, but you're replacing them with trees which is replenishing the canopy with healthy mature canopy canopy. It's not 00:51:37
going to be mature tomorrow, but. 00:51:43
In 10 years, it's going to be in a lot better condition than what is there currently, right? 00:51:49
All right. Well, if there's no other questions for the applicant, thank you for letting us pick your brain and go through this. 00:51:56
We'll go ahead and have you sit down and then we will open the public hearing and there's no one here to comment so. 00:52:02
We'll just need a motion to continue the hearing and continue this item to the next one. Motion, right? 00:52:10
Just continue, leave it open, leave the public hearing open, and continue this to the next. 00:52:15
Regular meeting when the. 00:52:21
And the other items have been provided. It works for me. Does anyone want to make that motion? 00:52:22
Commissioner Cunningham and I'll make the motion that we continue this meeting and leave the public hearing open. 00:52:28
OK, why second the motion? All right. It's been seconded. We're a small enough body. Any opposed? All in favor say aye, Aye. Done. 00:52:34
Just as a question. 00:52:45
Next. 00:52:48
We have training scheduled for the 25th. 00:52:51
And I can do. 00:52:59
Adding with the goods. 00:53:21
That have the direction you can. 00:53:23
Yep. 00:53:33
Thank you. And with that I think we can. 00:53:35
Motion to adjourn. All in favour. Aye aye, Don. 00:53:39
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