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| Thank you very much. So welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission. | 2024-06-25 18:00:23 | |
| June 25th, 2024. | 2024-06-25 18:00:27 | |
| We have. | 2024-06-25 18:00:29 | |
| One public hearing item this evening, The Bridge. | 2024-06-25 18:00:33 | |
| House historic site modification permit. | 2024-06-25 18:00:35 | |
| That we will omit the opening statement as a. | 2024-06-25 18:00:39 | |
| There are no members of the public present and. | 2024-06-25 18:00:42 | |
| And we also have no legal. | 2024-06-25 18:00:45 | |
| Council representation this evening. | 2024-06-25 18:00:48 | |
| And our absent Commissioner. | 2024-06-25 18:00:50 | |
| And with that, we will start. | 2024-06-25 18:00:54 | |
| With our first item for the public hearing that was. | 2024-06-25 18:00:57 | |
| Continued. If I'm not mistaken, last time I continued. | 2024-06-25 18:01:00 | |
| OK, so the public hearing is still open on? | 2024-06-25 18:01:03 | |
| So we will need to close it if we. | 2024-06-25 18:01:05 | |
| Have everything settled down that today but. | 2024-06-25 18:01:09 | |
| That being said, if we want to ask city staff. | 2024-06-25 18:01:12 | |
| Give us the quick Reader's Digest of what's changed on this. | 2024-06-25 18:01:15 | |
| And then we will invite the applicant up for questions. | 2024-06-25 18:01:18 | |
| OK. | 2024-06-25 18:01:27 | |
| So. | 2024-06-25 18:01:27 | |
| So from the last time the apple. | 2024-06-25 18:01:30 | |
| Came back with revisions based off of feedback from. | 2024-06-25 18:01:33 | |
| The Commissioners revisions that they made. | 2024-06-25 18:01:36 | |
| Work primarily to the doors. | 2024-06-25 18:01:39 | |
| And the architectural features on the new. | 2024-06-25 18:01:42 | |
| I did have structure some modification. | 2024-06-25 18:01:45 | |
| Applications on landscaping on the site as well. | 2024-06-25 18:01:48 | |
| After they did a survey, they found that. | 2024-06-25 18:01:51 | |
| Fencing and a lot of. | 2024-06-25 18:01:54 | |
| The trees that they were proposing to be trimmed or removed on. | 2024-06-25 18:01:57 | |
| The perimeter of the property we're on neighboring. | 2024-06-25 18:02:00 | |
| Properties, so those are now being omitted. | 2024-06-25 18:02:03 | |
| Within the scope of the project, because they're not. | 2024-06-25 18:02:06 | |
| Property. | 2024-06-25 18:02:09 | |
| Applications to the exterior they. | 2024-06-25 18:02:12 | |
| Added some millions and. | 2024-06-25 18:02:15 | |
| An art kind of door. | 2024-06-25 18:02:18 | |
| Fill in the glass doors to get them some. | 2024-06-25 18:02:21 | |
| Trim on the existing windows windows. | 2024-06-25 18:02:27 | |
| Be painted black color. | 2024-06-25 18:02:30 | |
| The Commission can clarify that what the applicant if they'd like. | 2024-06-25 18:02:33 | |
| More clarification on color. | 2024-06-25 18:02:36 | |
| So that would be window trim soft. | 2024-06-25 18:02:39 | |
| FIFA and FIFA are all going to be the Dark. | 2024-06-25 18:02:42 | |
| Or black color and then the doors would be black. | 2024-06-25 18:02:45 | |
| In line with those window trimmed. | 2024-06-25 18:02:48 | |
| The. | 2024-06-25 18:02:51 | |
| Canopy that was on the east entrance. | 2024-06-25 18:02:54 | |
| Kind of a support bar. So we clarified that with the. | 2024-06-25 18:02:57 | |
| Opposite last time it was just going to be a support. | 2024-06-25 18:03:00 | |
| Or far between the two walls and not. | 2024-06-25 18:03:03 | |
| Protruding it also not a canopy feature. | 2024-06-25 18:03:06 | |
| And the where do you? | 2024-06-25 18:03:09 | |
| The existing data. | 2024-06-25 18:03:12 | |
| Garages that will be demolished, they're going. | 2024-06-25 18:03:15 | |
| Going to convert some of that area to landscaping. | 2024-06-25 18:03:18 | |
| Three trees and some other black. | 2024-06-25 18:03:21 | |
| Bushes or hedges that are being planted in that area. | 2024-06-25 18:03:24 | |
| So it's increasing some of the open space and green area. | 2024-06-25 18:03:27 | |
| On the property. | 2024-06-25 18:03:30 | |
| Trees in the park strip. | 2024-06-25 18:03:33 | |
| Are difficult because of you. | 2024-06-25 18:03:36 | |
| Utility lines that are within the park strip. | 2024-06-25 18:03:39 | |
| So it makes it difficult to plant any St. trees on the property. | 2024-06-25 18:03:42 | |
| Or in the public right of way for the property. | 2024-06-25 18:03:45 | |
| The applicant I believe is. | 2024-06-25 18:03:48 | |
| Open to moving some or. | 2024-06-25 18:03:51 | |
| Another property, you're just having an exemption to that street tree. | 2024-06-25 18:03:54 | |
| Requirements the final. | 2024-06-25 18:03:57 | |
| Revision is with architectural detailing. | 2024-06-25 18:04:00 | |
| On the new detached garage that will be in the back of. | 2024-06-25 18:04:03 | |
| Building It's a garage and then some office space. | 2024-06-25 18:04:06 | |
| 2 levels matching the architectural detailing. | 2024-06-25 18:04:09 | |
| And brick color from the. | 2024-06-25 18:04:12 | |
| Structure so I will have. | 2024-06-25 18:04:15 | |
| The applicant come up and he can go through. | 2024-06-25 18:04:18 | |
| Those and answer any questions that you have. | 2024-06-25 18:04:21 | |
| Thank you very much. With that, we'll invite. | 2024-06-25 18:04:24 | |
| Maybe the applicant up? | 2024-06-25 18:04:27 | |
| Thereof and I'm just going to make it. | 2024-06-25 18:04:30 | |
| Assumption your name is not Katie and if you could remind me of your name. | 2024-06-25 18:04:33 | |
| Ben Week. | 2024-06-25 18:04:36 | |
| Then we thank you then. | 2024-06-25 18:04:39 | |
| Alright. | 2024-06-25 18:04:42 | |
| And so then what? What would you like? | 2024-06-25 18:04:45 | |
| To add on to what Carrie just summarized for us. | 2024-06-25 18:04:48 | |
| Umm, I don't really have anything you guys thought about. | 2024-06-25 18:04:51 | |
| Week they did a really good job on introduction. | 2024-06-25 18:04:54 | |
| If there's questions for me, I'm happy to feel the. | 2024-06-25 18:04:57 | |
| Well, it looks like you. | 2024-06-25 18:05:00 | |
| Stepped out to grab some color floss when we were. | 2024-06-25 18:05:03 | |
| Discussing in the work meeting, yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:05:06 | |
| Of it being pink, purple, blue. | 2024-06-25 18:05:09 | |
| It was referenced there in black, but if you need to see the exact. | 2024-06-25 18:05:12 | |
| Black, I'm happy to give you that. What? | 2024-06-25 18:05:15 | |
| So it's a dark black color. | 2024-06-25 18:05:18 | |
| I think would be interested in seeing the color because it. | 2024-06-25 18:05:21 | |
| In our packet it refers to dark. | 2024-06-25 18:05:24 | |
| Which is specific, but not actually. | 2024-06-25 18:05:27 | |
| Specific. | 2024-06-25 18:05:30 | |
| Thank you. | 2024-06-25 18:05:36 | |
| And then it sounds like the. | 2024-06-25 18:05:39 | |
| Fence and tree trimming in the periphery is no longer. | 2024-06-25 18:05:42 | |
| Consideration on this they're not our. | 2024-06-25 18:05:45 | |
| That's there, that's the thing. | 2024-06-25 18:05:48 | |
| Neighbors problem. Got it as far as the trees. | 2024-06-25 18:05:52 | |
| I can see that you added somewhere the garage you. | 2024-06-25 18:05:54 | |
| To be which I liked on the landscape update. | 2024-06-25 18:05:57 | |
| One question I had was. | 2024-06-25 18:06:00 | |
| Is there any opposition or concern? | 2024-06-25 18:06:04 | |
| About having the. | 2024-06-25 18:06:06 | |
| A three tree, not necessarily three tree. Let me rephrase. | 2024-06-25 18:06:10 | |
| Is that a frontal tree on the property? | 2024-06-25 18:06:12 | |
| Yeah, there there is opposition. | 2024-06-25 18:06:16 | |
| For a few reasons, we were. | 2024-06-25 18:06:18 | |
| Not occupy half, I mean about a third of these buildings. | 2024-06-25 18:06:21 | |
| So getting again that view of the building from. | 2024-06-25 18:06:25 | |
| Site from an aerial standpoint. | 2024-06-25 18:06:28 | |
| There's some safety concerns that we have with putting any trees out there. | 2024-06-25 18:06:31 | |
| If you're heading. | 2024-06-25 18:06:34 | |
| Murray Holiday Rd. That lane on. | 2024-06-25 18:06:36 | |
| On it splits from a single lane to two lanes right in front. | 2024-06-25 18:06:40 | |
| Of our egress and then. | 2024-06-25 18:06:43 | |
| Northside and the egress on the South side do not want. | 2024-06-25 18:06:46 | |
| So there are several times where you have two people. | 2024-06-25 18:06:49 | |
| People coming into that middle lane and that. | 2024-06-25 18:06:52 | |
| You have to wait for one to turn to the other. | 2024-06-25 18:06:55 | |
| So I mean, we feel like there's some safety, safety concerns. | 2024-06-25 18:06:58 | |
| There, along with just us being able to. | 2024-06-25 18:07:01 | |
| Presented historical site and aspect of what we think we're. | 2024-06-25 18:07:04 | |
| We're going to do to the building to try to from a lease. | 2024-06-25 18:07:07 | |
| Standpoint. So there is. | 2024-06-25 18:07:10 | |
| Code that I went over with Carrie that does allow us to. | 2024-06-25 18:07:13 | |
| To not put trees out there. | 2024-06-25 18:07:16 | |
| Long as we've gotten the the canopy. | 2024-06-25 18:07:19 | |
| Coverage ratios and stuff which have been implemented. | 2024-06-25 18:07:22 | |
| Been shown in our landscaping plan. | 2024-06-25 18:07:25 | |
| And as we identified in our. | 2024-06-25 18:07:28 | |
| Work meeting, just I think right before you arrive. | 2024-06-25 18:07:31 | |
| Given the historical nature of this. | 2024-06-25 18:07:34 | |
| The overall theme of historical holiday. | 2024-06-25 18:07:37 | |
| It does sound, there's a sound like there's a little bit of. | 2024-06-25 18:07:40 | |
| Room in there for mandatory. | 2024-06-25 18:07:43 | |
| For a tree along the front, I. | 2024-06-25 18:07:46 | |
| Understand where you're coming from. I 100% agree on the safe. | 2024-06-25 18:07:49 | |
| 50 I'm not sure looking at what. | 2024-06-25 18:07:52 | |
| Already there if I would qualify that as a safety concern, but I'm not. | 2024-06-25 18:07:55 | |
| Traffic engineer. That's out of my wheelhouse. | 2024-06-25 18:07:58 | |
| That being said, I think there is some line of sight type trimming. | 2024-06-25 18:08:01 | |
| That can be done to raise canopies, but. | 2024-06-25 18:08:04 | |
| But I think just having at least one tree beautiful. | 2024-06-25 18:08:07 | |
| Flowering pair column or something in the front? | 2024-06-25 18:08:10 | |
| The property would be more a step. | 2024-06-25 18:08:13 | |
| And in line with the historical nature. But we can. | 2024-06-25 18:08:16 | |
| Discuss that. I'm just curious if there would be a huge off. | 2024-06-25 18:08:19 | |
| Position to planting a single tree out there if it was meant. | 2024-06-25 18:08:22 | |
| At this point we I mean that was. | 2024-06-25 18:08:25 | |
| Part of getting and paying the landscape engineer to make sure that. | 2024-06-25 18:08:28 | |
| They were too cold. We would rather not do that. | 2024-06-25 18:08:31 | |
| I appreciate that. | 2024-06-25 18:08:34 | |
| And then I think that's it for my question. | 2024-06-25 18:08:37 | |
| Any other questions for the applicant? | 2024-06-25 18:08:40 | |
| There's a tree in the front of the building on the 3rd. | 2024-06-25 18:08:43 | |
| Or anything on is that still alive? | 2024-06-25 18:08:49 | |
| I don't know. I don't know if. | 2024-06-25 18:08:52 | |
| Are you talking about the one that carries pulling up? I don't even know. | 2024-06-25 18:08:55 | |
| I don't think that's there anymore. | 2024-06-25 18:08:58 | |
| OK. | 2024-06-25 18:09:04 | |
| The landscape plan. Landscape plan, that was. | 2024-06-25 18:09:07 | |
| Provided does indicate which trees are on site. They're. | 2024-06-25 18:09:10 | |
| Canopies and what we're taking out and replacing. | 2024-06-25 18:09:13 | |
| So there was. | 2024-06-25 18:09:16 | |
| Somebody decided to that. | 2024-06-25 18:09:19 | |
| Ownership We only own the building for a couple of months. | 2024-06-25 18:09:22 | |
| Can I have a clarified question mark? | 2024-06-25 18:09:25 | |
| About. | 2024-06-25 18:09:28 | |
| They said you guys did a more exact survey and it turns out the sense. | 2024-06-25 18:09:31 | |
| And the the trees are outside. We did an alpha. | 2024-06-25 18:09:34 | |
| ALPA survey correct. OK, so. | 2024-06-25 18:09:37 | |
| So that the tree. | 2024-06-25 18:09:40 | |
| Then none of the tree maintenance will be done by you. | 2024-06-25 18:09:43 | |
| From a standpoint of asking. | 2024-06-25 18:09:46 | |
| To replace a fence that we don't own, It doesn't make any. | 2024-06-25 18:09:49 | |
| In terms of replace. | 2024-06-25 18:09:52 | |
| Tree or trimming trees that are not on our property. | 2024-06-25 18:09:55 | |
| It kind of falls outside of this discussion. | 2024-06-25 18:09:58 | |
| Because it's not within this parcel or the site or the historical. | 2024-06-25 18:10:01 | |
| That's something we're going to try to work with on the on the. | 2024-06-25 18:10:04 | |
| The retail owner to the left. | 2024-06-25 18:10:07 | |
| Because it's. | 2024-06-25 18:10:10 | |
| Makes sense on the side I'm just trying to figure out. | 2024-06-25 18:10:13 | |
| Belong to the property on the other side of the street. | 2024-06-25 18:10:16 | |
| Other side is this. | 2024-06-25 18:10:19 | |
| With this drug. | 2024-06-25 18:10:22 | |
| On the West side, On the West side. | 2024-06-25 18:10:25 | |
| Retail strip mall, yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:10:31 | |
| On the backside of a retail strip center. | 2024-06-25 18:10:34 | |
| Any other questions for the application? | 2024-06-25 18:10:40 | |
| All right, but with that. | 2024-06-25 18:10:43 | |
| We'll go ahead and have you sit down and. | 2024-06-25 18:10:46 | |
| Public hearing was left open. I do not. | 2024-06-25 18:10:49 | |
| Anybody here to make public comment? Although we did have someone come in. | 2024-06-25 18:10:52 | |
| Are you with the applicant or are you a member of the public? | 2024-06-25 18:10:55 | |
| No, you are. You're Katie. Hi, Katie. OK, All right. | 2024-06-25 18:10:58 | |
| Great. So if it's just the applicant here. | 2024-06-25 18:11:01 | |
| And unless they've had any comments submitted, I'm prepared to. | 2024-06-25 18:11:04 | |
| This point to close the public hearing and move us to. | 2024-06-25 18:11:07 | |
| The discussion. | 2024-06-25 18:11:10 | |
| Does that have a an approved? | 2024-06-25 18:11:13 | |
| My plan was where the landscaping was prior to the. | 2024-06-25 18:11:16 | |
| I. | 2024-06-25 18:11:19 | |
| Don't think so. John, have you had any landscaping plans? | 2024-06-25 18:11:23 | |
| On this property before. | 2024-06-25 18:11:25 | |
| Are you are you talking about historically? | 2024-06-25 18:11:28 | |
| There were trees there originally, but now the. | 2024-06-25 18:11:31 | |
| Wiped out? No. | 2024-06-25 18:11:34 | |
| I don't have a record like that. | 2024-06-25 18:11:38 | |
| Every retailer and every office building. | 2024-06-25 18:11:40 | |
| Expectation to have as much visibility to the building. | 2024-06-25 18:11:44 | |
| I can't connect. | 2024-06-25 18:11:46 | |
| In this case I think one tree Poly would be. | 2024-06-25 18:11:50 | |
| Oriented and I'd like to let kind of. | 2024-06-25 18:11:52 | |
| Work with the applicant to make that happen. | 2024-06-25 18:11:56 | |
| I don't know if that's in line with how. | 2024-06-25 18:11:59 | |
| You'd like to receive. | 2024-06-25 18:12:02 | |
| Point public hearings closed. We're in discussion and I mean as far as. | 2024-06-25 18:12:05 | |
| I'm concerned. I agree with you, I think. I don't think. | 2024-06-25 18:12:08 | |
| I think it needs to be a giant bushy Cottonwood tree. | 2024-06-25 18:12:11 | |
| That's gonna obscure 50% of the front of the building I. | 2024-06-25 18:12:14 | |
| I think a small column or tree just to have some. | 2024-06-25 18:12:17 | |
| Something to break up just the open space of it all. | 2024-06-25 18:12:20 | |
| Especially as it goes into a strip mall, which is like, you know what? | 2024-06-25 18:12:23 | |
| 55% parking lot right out. | 2024-06-25 18:12:26 | |
| Upfront and like grass. | 2024-06-25 18:12:29 | |
| I don't think it needs to be in the park strip, I think it would be on the front of the. | 2024-06-25 18:12:32 | |
| Right. | 2024-06-25 18:12:35 | |
| And visibility. And also aesthetically. | 2024-06-25 18:12:38 | |
| Utilities etcetera, right, I agree. | 2024-06-25 18:12:41 | |
| Mr. Gong might have said that we are. | 2024-06-25 18:12:44 | |
| I mean, there's walkability. Like, can you walk? | 2024-06-25 18:12:47 | |
| Walk there. Yes, there's a sidewalk and you aren't walking in the street. | 2024-06-25 18:12:50 | |
| But I think St. trees actually make a huge difference in. | 2024-06-25 18:12:53 | |
| Whether it's walkable in terms of will people walk there? | 2024-06-25 18:12:56 | |
| And I walked that strip and. | 2024-06-25 18:12:59 | |
| That's really unpleasant. There's nothing to save you. It's really hard. | 2024-06-25 18:13:02 | |
| Having my kids, you know, so I. | 2024-06-25 18:13:05 | |
| I actually think that having the tree on the. | 2024-06-25 18:13:08 | |
| Sidewalk is an important. | 2024-06-25 18:13:11 | |
| Tree. If there's not going to be tree on the sidewalk, it actually goes. | 2024-06-25 18:13:14 | |
| It it doesn't make much sense. | 2024-06-25 18:13:17 | |
| For me to move it back because then so. | 2024-06-25 18:13:20 | |
| Visual and not actually functional. | 2024-06-25 18:13:23 | |
| In terms of what do we want this to be? We want this to be. | 2024-06-25 18:13:26 | |
| Some place where people feel comfortable walking. | 2024-06-25 18:13:29 | |
| Certainly with the. | 2024-06-25 18:13:32 | |
| Royal Holiday Hills like density is going to increase. | 2024-06-25 18:13:35 | |
| Want people to feel comfortable walking if if there are few. | 2024-06-25 18:13:38 | |
| Trees. And of course one or two trees. Like is it gonna make the difference? | 2024-06-25 18:13:41 | |
| Different, but I think this is the kind of. | 2024-06-25 18:13:44 | |
| We actually want more trees, not fewer on the sidewalk. | 2024-06-25 18:13:47 | |
| Creating the sidewalk, but we run into. | 2024-06-25 18:13:50 | |
| The issue of utilities. | 2024-06-25 18:13:53 | |
| So what I'm saying is where the tree is now I actually think. | 2024-06-25 18:13:56 | |
| So the placement of the question of safety. | 2024-06-25 18:13:59 | |
| And again, I agree. | 2024-06-25 18:14:02 | |
| Safety studies are, but that's a good placement. I don't think I have to. | 2024-06-25 18:14:05 | |
| Put it in the parking strip. OK, fear this thing closer. | 2024-06-25 18:14:08 | |
| To the sidewalk. | 2024-06-25 18:14:11 | |
| The building and I wouldn't push it back, OK. | 2024-06-25 18:14:14 | |
| I mean, you know, aesthetically for me. | 2024-06-25 18:14:17 | |
| Which has no bearing here. I mean, I think you could do. | 2024-06-25 18:14:20 | |
| Flowering crab apples or even. | 2024-06-25 18:14:23 | |
| Larger tree right next to the sidewalk. | 2024-06-25 18:14:26 | |
| Out kind of by that wall and you know probably. | 2024-06-25 18:14:31 | |
| We might have a lot of utility disruption unless you're planning to go in and redo the existing utility line. But again, I want. | 2024-06-25 18:14:37 | |
| Be respectful to the applicant and I don't think it's necessary for us to overreach that if they put. | 2024-06-25 18:14:42 | |
| This kind of tree there, I think just giving the flexibility, but saying at least one tree out front because we are treating. | 2024-06-25 18:14:49 | |
| USA and well, I appreciate the landscape plan that they presented and the fact that they are putting more trees in. | 2024-06-25 18:14:54 | |
| With that garage being turned into an open space island but I still think. | 2024-06-25 18:15:00 | |
| It's just it's warranted to ask for one tree somewhere in the front, which again, doesn't have to be a judge. | 2024-06-25 18:15:07 | |
| Gigantic tree or heavily distracting or disruptive to the visual. | 2024-06-25 18:15:12 | |
| Property. | 2024-06-25 18:15:16 | |
| And to your point, more aesthetic. | 2024-06-25 18:15:18 | |
| Commissioner. | 2024-06-25 18:15:19 | |
| Commissioner Cunningham, I don't necessarily agree with Microsoft. | 2024-06-25 18:15:24 | |
| I don't necessarily agree with the comments about the walkability. | 2024-06-25 18:15:32 | |
| I think that. | 2024-06-25 18:15:32 | |
| There are reasons to put trees in other than to save people. | 2024-06-25 18:15:35 | |
| People walking by so I'm I. | 2024-06-25 18:15:38 | |
| Agree with with Chair Roach that. | 2024-06-25 18:15:41 | |
| Just from the standpoint of aesthetics, at least one. | 2024-06-25 18:15:44 | |
| Country in the front of the building would make sense. | 2024-06-25 18:15:47 | |
| If there's any thoughts. | 2024-06-25 18:15:50 | |
| Yeah, I brought this up initially because I. | 2024-06-25 18:15:53 | |
| Their historic residential home and we. | 2024-06-25 18:15:56 | |
| Slowly but surely making all the brain. | 2024-06-25 18:15:59 | |
| Amendment to the historic residential field disappear. | 2024-06-25 18:16:02 | |
| And that, and there'll be another one in another. | 2024-06-25 18:16:05 | |
| I would like. | 2024-06-25 18:16:08 | |
| I'm happy with one. | 2024-06-25 18:16:11 | |
| I mean, if it was my perfect world, it'd be a. | 2024-06-25 18:16:14 | |
| Forest. But you know, at some point somebody wants to see the business. | 2024-06-25 18:16:17 | |
| Yeah, I just, it just needs to retain. | 2024-06-25 18:16:20 | |
| Or feel of a residence not a not not. | 2024-06-25 18:16:23 | |
| Office building. | 2024-06-25 18:16:25 | |
| Historic office building there. | 2024-06-25 18:16:29 | |
| And as far as the modification. | 2024-06-25 18:16:32 | |
| Applications to the doors and. | 2024-06-25 18:16:35 | |
| Updates to the accessory. | 2024-06-25 18:16:38 | |
| Unit it's not a. | 2024-06-25 18:16:41 | |
| Unit accessory garage in the back. | 2024-06-25 18:16:44 | |
| Any questions, comments or concerns? | 2024-06-25 18:16:47 | |
| I thought that the the small touches were really. | 2024-06-25 18:16:53 | |
| Nice, a little bit of an arch that painting in the top. | 2024-06-25 18:16:56 | |
| Max is sort of that front look. I thought it was enough. | 2024-06-25 18:16:59 | |
| That it was a nod to what's existing. | 2024-06-25 18:17:02 | |
| Without saying that they have to have a historical door, I don't know. | 2024-06-25 18:17:05 | |
| What would be there? I like to and then also I like that. | 2024-06-25 18:17:08 | |
| Rod really matches the aesthetic of the. | 2024-06-25 18:17:11 | |
| I mean, really, I didn't realize it was going to be an office. | 2024-06-25 18:17:14 | |
| Garage, but that seems like a. | 2024-06-25 18:17:17 | |
| Good use of that space to me. | 2024-06-25 18:17:20 | |
| You know, as far as the front. | 2024-06-25 18:17:23 | |
| Door goes. I mean, personally I think it would have been. | 2024-06-25 18:17:26 | |
| Cool to do. Like what do you call those little lines on the? | 2024-06-25 18:17:29 | |
| Side window. What's the word they called? | 2024-06-25 18:17:32 | |
| William, thank you. | 2024-06-25 18:17:35 | |
| I'm an architect, right? But I think that would have. | 2024-06-25 18:17:38 | |
| Been a nice touch, but I think the enhancements that they have made to it. | 2024-06-25 18:17:41 | |
| Make sense? Compared to what? | 2024-06-25 18:17:44 | |
| Was originally proposed, so it sounds. | 2024-06-25 18:17:47 | |
| Like the only concern we really have then is just around the landscape. | 2024-06-25 18:17:50 | |
| Plan and I think if I could just ask though, I mean. | 2024-06-25 18:17:53 | |
| Will be going on in that garage besides storing. | 2024-06-25 18:17:56 | |
| Because it's got a door and. | 2024-06-25 18:17:59 | |
| Upper window. | 2024-06-25 18:18:02 | |
| Anything else going to go on in there? | 2024-06-25 18:18:05 | |
| I don't know if we have any regulations. | 2024-06-25 18:18:08 | |
| Over what is there beyond what is permitted use. | 2024-06-25 18:18:11 | |
| Is that in the with the historical? | 2024-06-25 18:18:14 | |
| Storage or whatever, but I mean we won't. | 2024-06-25 18:18:17 | |
| Suddenly see a request and we. | 2024-06-25 18:18:20 | |
| Out of office space or 8:00? | 2024-06-25 18:18:23 | |
| We're right. We're in the. | 2024-06-25 18:18:26 | |
| Three buildings they would if the use being per. | 2024-06-25 18:18:29 | |
| Code for that building is outside of what is permitted. | 2024-06-25 18:18:32 | |
| Then it would be a conditional use. | 2024-06-25 18:18:35 | |
| Kind of things where their conditional use is for. | 2024-06-25 18:18:38 | |
| Office space, so thus if they were to. | 2024-06-25 18:18:41 | |
| Sure, I want to use that space for any additional. | 2024-06-25 18:18:44 | |
| Users that are in not permitted in. | 2024-06-25 18:18:47 | |
| The RM zone and are tied to the historical. | 2024-06-25 18:18:50 | |
| Conditional uses, then they'd have to apply for a condition. | 2024-06-25 18:18:54 | |
| I don't like have the applicant tell us what the intending. | 2024-06-25 18:18:57 | |
| Use his arm and we seem to have to drag out him. | 2024-06-25 18:18:59 | |
| Information that should be self-evident in the packet. | 2024-06-25 18:19:03 | |
| We don't have council here. I mean, I don't know if that's. | 2024-06-25 18:19:05 | |
| Something legally, Yes. Yes, we can. OK. | 2024-06-25 18:19:09 | |
| Move. We'll go ahead and invite you. I'm not going to cross line, but. | 2024-06-25 18:19:11 | |
| If you want to let us know what it is, we'll be happy to have. | 2024-06-25 18:19:15 | |
| Come back up and address that for us. Thanks. | 2024-06-25 18:19:18 | |
| Sorry, no, you're fine. | 2024-06-25 18:19:21 | |
| We were a real estate developer. | 2024-06-25 18:19:24 | |
| We were established back in 1956. | 2024-06-25 18:19:27 | |
| We have the existing garage. | 2024-06-25 18:19:30 | |
| Now the three car garage, so this is this is the. | 2024-06-25 18:19:33 | |
| Two car garage, the door in the window. | 2024-06-25 18:19:36 | |
| The two garages. | 2024-06-25 18:19:39 | |
| Throw up that site plan that shows the area. | 2024-06-25 18:19:42 | |
| So the two garages line up to work. | 2024-06-25 18:19:45 | |
| Where we would have the parking lot access in the garage. | 2024-06-25 18:19:48 | |
| And the door just lines up to where it would line up on. | 2024-06-25 18:19:51 | |
| That later one or the other one? | 2024-06-25 18:19:54 | |
| There's one guy. | 2024-06-25 18:19:57 | |
| So you can see the two garages. | 2024-06-25 18:20:00 | |
| Right here and here and. | 2024-06-25 18:20:03 | |
| It's just really meant for over. | 2024-06-25 18:20:09 | |
| It's just meant for storage. | 2024-06-25 18:20:12 | |
| I mean, we've got like a flatbed trailer in there. | 2024-06-25 18:20:15 | |
| In our industry, we build. | 2024-06-25 18:20:18 | |
| Umm, big concrete warehouses. | 2024-06-25 18:20:21 | |
| Kind of all over the place and. | 2024-06-25 18:20:24 | |
| Since COVID we there's a lot of different types of leads. | 2024-06-25 18:20:27 | |
| The item so we we store and how? | 2024-06-25 18:20:30 | |
| Some of our own rooftop units that heat and cool those spaces because those. | 2024-06-25 18:20:33 | |
| Lead times were over a year trying to keep. | 2024-06-25 18:20:36 | |
| Tenants in tow and those types of things. | 2024-06-25 18:20:39 | |
| Gear item, things related to that and then the. | 2024-06-25 18:20:42 | |
| Really the only thing that that the window. | 2024-06-25 18:20:45 | |
| Servicing are trying to tie in the exact architecture that. | 2024-06-25 18:20:48 | |
| On the existing facility, that was just more. | 2024-06-25 18:20:51 | |
| Or comment from the Planning Commission trying to tie that in. | 2024-06-25 18:20:54 | |
| It it it serves purposely. | 2024-06-25 18:20:57 | |
| Except for trying to tie. | 2024-06-25 18:21:00 | |
| The current car garage. | 2024-06-25 18:21:03 | |
| Have zero tie into the historical side. | 2024-06-25 18:21:06 | |
| At some point the app. | 2024-06-25 18:21:09 | |
| Whoever built that would have had to come in here and. | 2024-06-25 18:21:12 | |
| Do that in in after requesting. To me that was. | 2024-06-25 18:21:15 | |
| It's stuck a rock and. | 2024-06-25 18:21:18 | |
| No tie in. This will be the same brick that was used as. | 2024-06-25 18:21:21 | |
| In the addition, the same window design the same. | 2024-06-25 18:21:24 | |
| Roof design so and again this this. | 2024-06-25 18:21:27 | |
| Won't be seen from the peripheral of Murray Holiday. | 2024-06-25 18:21:30 | |
| Blvd. So we're we're trying, we really are trying to. | 2024-06-25 18:21:33 | |
| Try to keep. We think we're we think. | 2024-06-25 18:21:36 | |
| We're trying to beautify and. | 2024-06-25 18:21:39 | |
| Keep the historical nature of the site below the. | 2024-06-25 18:21:42 | |
| Better than at the current condition, so. | 2024-06-25 18:21:45 | |
| Yeah. Thank you. | 2024-06-25 18:21:48 | |
| Sorry, it's the top level. You're seeing the top of us also. | 2024-06-25 18:21:51 | |
| There's no top level, it's just. It's just Windows. | 2024-06-25 18:21:54 | |
| Oh, I see. So inside. | 2024-06-25 18:21:57 | |
| Yeah. So a lot of times we'll put like we'll put racks in there. | 2024-06-25 18:22:00 | |
| And we can stack those rooftop units on racks. | 2024-06-25 18:22:03 | |
| I thought I was sort of visualizing like that two-story thing, but it's actually just one. | 2024-06-25 18:22:06 | |
| Sorry. | 2024-06-25 18:22:09 | |
| So big warehouse garage with a. | 2024-06-25 18:22:12 | |
| Facade basically and I think. | 2024-06-25 18:22:15 | |
| The applicant should be recognized for including some. | 2024-06-25 18:22:18 | |
| Historical Tetris that's they don't know we. | 2024-06-25 18:22:21 | |
| Have to do that and it's nice that they did, so thank you. | 2024-06-25 18:22:24 | |
| Going that extra. | 2024-06-25 18:22:27 | |
| Extra step for that? Absolutely. | 2024-06-25 18:22:30 | |
| All right. Any other discussion points or concerns? | 2024-06-25 18:22:33 | |
| All right, if anyone's ready to make a motion. | 2024-06-25 18:22:36 | |
| I'm the only comment I would have for. | 2024-06-25 18:22:39 | |
| Anyone to make the motion would be. | 2024-06-25 18:22:42 | |
| About consideration to put. | 2024-06-25 18:22:45 | |
| A tree out front what? | 2024-06-25 18:22:48 | |
| Our best way to phrase that? | 2024-06-25 18:22:51 | |
| Consideration sounds. | 2024-06-25 18:22:54 | |
| A requirement 1. | 2024-06-25 18:22:57 | |
| Tree required in the front. | 2024-06-25 18:23:00 | |
| Lawn area. | 2024-06-25 18:23:03 | |
| Within, you know. | 2024-06-25 18:23:06 | |
| Not in the park strip. Essentially that work. | 2024-06-25 18:23:09 | |
| John. | 2024-06-25 18:23:12 | |
| What does this Commissioner go ahead and? | 2024-06-25 18:23:15 | |
| Make a motion I motion that the Holiday Planning Commission. | 2024-06-25 18:23:18 | |
| Can move to approve the application for a conditional use. | 2024-06-25 18:23:21 | |
| Permit for a historic site modification for the. | 2024-06-25 18:23:24 | |
| The David Branson Brinton home designated. | 2024-06-25 18:23:27 | |
| As a historic site by section 13.86. | 2024-06-25 18:23:30 | |
| .020 of the City of Holiday code. | 2024-06-25 18:23:33 | |
| Located at 1981 E Murray. | 2024-06-25 18:23:36 | |
| Road based upon the findings that. | 2024-06-25 18:23:39 | |
| The applicant has proposed. | 2024-06-25 18:23:42 | |
| As listed in the executive summary. | 2024-06-25 18:23:45 | |
| And the motion is subject to the following. | 2024-06-25 18:23:48 | |
| Conditions listed including dark paint. | 2024-06-25 18:23:51 | |
| Modern doors. | 2024-06-25 18:23:54 | |
| Landscaping plan with the addition. | 2024-06-25 18:23:57 | |
| Of a tree, a single tree in. | 2024-06-25 18:24:00 | |
| The front yard on the Murray. | 2024-06-25 18:24:03 | |
| Holiday Rd. facing portion of the. | 2024-06-25 18:24:07 | |
| Property that is not currently listed. | 2024-06-25 18:24:10 | |
| And the demolition? | 2024-06-25 18:24:12 | |
| Existing garage. New garage does. | 2024-06-25 18:24:15 | |
| Designed to feature architectural features and no ad. | 2024-06-25 18:24:19 | |
| Addition of lighting within the parking lot. | 2024-06-25 18:24:21 | |
| Do we want to let them work with staff to get a? | 2024-06-25 18:24:25 | |
| Location that's appropriate instead of just. | 2024-06-25 18:24:27 | |
| Anywhere and including. | 2024-06-25 18:24:31 | |
| Discussions with the staff to choose. | 2024-06-25 18:24:33 | |
| Appropriate location for a single tree. | 2024-06-25 18:24:37 | |
| Do we also need a amendment for that? | 2024-06-25 18:24:39 | |
| To the paint color to be black or. | 2024-06-25 18:24:43 | |
| Brown or just dark color? | 2024-06-25 18:24:46 | |
| He showed how that, but it's not. | 2024-06-25 18:24:48 | |
| I would just make it black. | 2024-06-25 18:24:52 | |
| Good about. | 2024-06-25 18:24:55 | |
| Because black would be a black unrated. | 2024-06-25 18:24:57 | |
| Including paint color of a black. | 2024-06-25 18:25:00 | |
| Nature. | 2024-06-25 18:25:04 | |
| All right. | 2024-06-25 18:25:07 | |
| Yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:25:09 | |
| Well, it'll stay. | 2024-06-25 18:25:09 | |
| Right. All right. So we have a motion. Do we have a second? | 2024-06-25 18:25:13 | |
| I second the motion, Commissioner Gong AM. | 2024-06-25 18:25:16 | |
| Both seconded. All right, it's doubly second with that. | 2024-06-25 18:25:19 | |
| That we will call for a vote, Commissioner Barron. | 2024-06-25 18:25:22 | |
| Commissioner Cunningham aye, and Chair Roach votes aye. | 2024-06-25 18:25:27 | |
| So we look forward to seeing those changes. Thank you very much. | 2024-06-25 18:25:31 | |
| Thank you. | 2024-06-25 18:25:34 | |
| And with that, we have. Thank you. | 2024-06-25 18:25:37 | |
| On the agenda here. | 2024-06-25 18:25:40 | |
| Says action item election of chair and vice chair. | 2024-06-25 18:25:42 | |
| But I think that is being tabled until the next meeting. | 2024-06-25 18:25:46 | |
| Meeting, yeah, which I will not be here, so y'all. | 2024-06-25 18:25:49 | |
| Way 123 not it. May I? May I ask you? | 2024-06-25 18:25:52 | |
| The question about that just in preparation for. | 2024-06-25 18:25:54 | |
| Thinking can be. | 2024-06-25 18:25:58 | |
| Has served for less than a year. Be nominated. | 2024-06-25 18:26:01 | |
| To be chair again. | 2024-06-25 18:26:03 | |
| What a fine thing to know. | 2024-06-25 18:26:07 | |
| Can we elect someone without him being present? | 2024-06-25 18:26:10 | |
| I didn't happen to. | 2024-06-25 18:26:13 | |
| It happened. | 2024-06-25 18:26:15 | |
| Can I ask on there? | 2024-06-25 18:26:15 | |
| They were duly notified if they were notified before. | 2024-06-25 18:26:19 | |
| On their terms, it looks like both carrying. | 2024-06-25 18:26:22 | |
| And the chairs turned. | 2024-06-25 18:26:24 | |
| Up at the end of the month. | 2024-06-25 18:26:28 | |
| They we have had discussion with Kerry. | 2024-06-25 18:26:31 | |
| They'll be reappointed by the council. | 2024-06-25 18:26:34 | |
| OK, super. I was gonna say great. Thank you. | 2024-06-25 18:26:37 | |
| For all your. | 2024-06-25 18:26:40 | |
| We get away that fast. | 2024-06-25 18:26:42 | |
| I was gonna say thank you because you guys are really. | 2024-06-25 18:26:46 | |
| A great leadership group and. | 2024-06-25 18:26:49 | |
| Thank you for all your help. | 2024-06-25 18:26:52 | |
| All right. | 2024-06-25 18:26:55 | |
| Fair enough. Well, it'll be a lively discussion. I'm sure that I won't be here. | 2024-06-25 18:26:58 | |
| But you can text me the outcome. | 2024-06-25 18:27:01 | |
| We can value right now buddy. | 2024-06-25 18:27:04 | |
| That being said, we'll move right on into the. | 2024-06-25 18:27:07 | |
| The training that we do not have listed on here. | 2024-06-25 18:27:10 | |
| That has been prepared by city staff and gosh. | 2024-06-25 18:27:13 | |
| I'm excited and there are treats here if anybody needs some sugar. | 2024-06-25 18:27:16 | |
| And we will turn it over to Johnny. | 2024-06-25 18:27:19 | |
| OK, so glad you're so excited. | 2024-06-25 18:27:22 | |
| Hopefully we can get through. | 2024-06-25 18:27:25 | |
| At least an hour's worth of training in 1/2 an hour? How about? | 2024-06-25 18:27:28 | |
| That would be a great thing. | 2024-06-25 18:27:31 | |
| First off, I think last time we met. | 2024-06-25 18:27:34 | |
| We were talking about having a little bit. | 2024-06-25 18:27:37 | |
| Bit of discussion on in some way. | 2024-06-25 18:27:40 | |
| Differences between a subdivision and a planned unit development. | 2024-06-25 18:27:43 | |
| But I think before. | 2024-06-25 18:27:46 | |
| Get into what Kerry has. | 2024-06-25 18:27:49 | |
| Naturally put together here. | 2024-06-25 18:27:52 | |
| Are there any questions first on what a PUD or? | 2024-06-25 18:27:55 | |
| Because. | 2024-06-25 18:27:58 | |
| No matter what city you look at, no matter what city you live. | 2024-06-25 18:28:01 | |
| Have worked or lived in before or looked. | 2024-06-25 18:28:04 | |
| I've got ordinances or they have in place. | 2024-06-25 18:28:07 | |
| Many things look a few days very different now. | 2024-06-25 18:28:10 | |
| A PUD process. | 2024-06-25 18:28:13 | |
| And an approval may not be the. | 2024-06-25 18:28:16 | |
| That same holiday as it is in public cities like that. | 2024-06-25 18:28:19 | |
| So can I ask is far? | 2024-06-25 18:28:22 | |
| Far as the classification. | 2024-06-25 18:28:25 | |
| On the general plan is the PUD. | 2024-06-25 18:28:28 | |
| To match the density in the location but indicate. | 2024-06-25 18:28:34 | |
| On the general plan or are there specific? | 2024-06-25 18:28:37 | |
| Areas that. | 2024-06-25 18:28:40 | |
| Identify PUD Yes. | 2024-06-25 18:28:43 | |
| Good question. So every zone within within? | 2024-06-25 18:28:46 | |
| City has a building availability of a PUD. | 2024-06-25 18:28:49 | |
| You do have to match the density. That is one thing that cannot be changed. | 2024-06-25 18:28:52 | |
| Some municipalities from cities and some. | 2024-06-25 18:28:55 | |
| States you can't do that. You can. A developer can come. | 2024-06-25 18:28:58 | |
| Planning Commission. The request density modification. | 2024-06-25 18:29:01 | |
| If they were to provide to you. | 2024-06-25 18:29:04 | |
| Evidence of preserving or conserving open space. | 2024-06-25 18:29:07 | |
| The five to 50 acre lot. | 2024-06-25 18:29:10 | |
| Aesthetically and. | 2024-06-25 18:29:13 | |
| The zone says are 110 I'm allowed. | 2024-06-25 18:29:16 | |
| To have whatever that calculation works. | 2024-06-25 18:29:19 | |
| In Grid St. | 2024-06-25 18:29:22 | |
| Front yard setbacks, Rear yard set back. | 2024-06-25 18:29:25 | |
| I have a single family house, a detached garage that's a. | 2024-06-25 18:29:28 | |
| Basic subdivision cookie cutter. | 2024-06-25 18:29:31 | |
| However, the developer comes back and says. | 2024-06-25 18:29:34 | |
| You know there's a hillside there. | 2024-06-25 18:29:37 | |
| Larger growth of trees. Some of these areas had his. | 2024-06-25 18:29:40 | |
| Historic orchards with holiday. | 2024-06-25 18:29:43 | |
| We'd like to preserve that area as. | 2024-06-25 18:29:46 | |
| And preserve it for conservation of opens. | 2024-06-25 18:29:49 | |
| Face and shove all that density to the middle. | 2024-06-25 18:29:52 | |
| To the corner or somewhere else deserve that. | 2024-06-25 18:29:55 | |
| Space we get an extra couple of. | 2024-06-25 18:29:58 | |
| Unit to compensate for that in holiday. Holiday. | 2024-06-25 18:30:01 | |
| And the developer cannot ask for that. | 2024-06-25 18:30:04 | |
| They can't ask for flexibility and how those. | 2024-06-25 18:30:07 | |
| Pieces of those homes, those lots. | 2024-06-25 18:30:10 | |
| Get pushed or manipulated to one. | 2024-06-25 18:30:13 | |
| Five. So the requirement. | 2024-06-25 18:30:16 | |
| To you is to come to you with a concept. | 2024-06-25 18:30:19 | |
| Subdivision. Lay it out exactly the zone. | 2024-06-25 18:30:22 | |
| Loan requires rudimentary. | 2024-06-25 18:30:25 | |
| As you would expect to see every single time you see a sub. | 2024-06-25 18:30:28 | |
| Division and then once you say yes. | 2024-06-25 18:30:31 | |
| Just meet the density and use. | 2024-06-25 18:30:34 | |
| Then come back and say here's my 10 unit. | 2024-06-25 18:30:37 | |
| On smaller or maybe some have bigger lots. | 2024-06-25 18:30:43 | |
| Or maybe a couple of units are combined together and. | 2024-06-25 18:30:46 | |
| The duplex situation. | 2024-06-25 18:30:49 | |
| Flexibility in that type of development does it. | 2024-06-25 18:30:52 | |
| Change the density or use that allows for a very. | 2024-06-25 18:30:55 | |
| Interesting neighborhood. | 2024-06-25 18:30:58 | |
| That conserves and preserves elements that may have been natural. | 2024-06-25 18:31:01 | |
| That streetscape. | 2024-06-25 18:31:04 | |
| Does that answer your question? Yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:31:07 | |
| And I also was going to ask, is this a zoning? | 2024-06-25 18:31:10 | |
| Or because it's, let's say. | 2024-06-25 18:31:13 | |
| They have 20 units that can be developed on the. | 2024-06-25 18:31:16 | |
| Fight as an example and they. | 2024-06-25 18:31:19 | |
| Chose to do all those with townhouses instead of. | 2024-06-25 18:31:22 | |
| 10,000 square foot, lots of safe. | 2024-06-25 18:31:25 | |
| Is that a zoning change on the property? | 2024-06-25 18:31:28 | |
| Or the PUD, the PUD conditional. | 2024-06-25 18:31:31 | |
| Conditional use. | 2024-06-25 18:31:34 | |
| OK. | 2024-06-25 18:31:37 | |
| Thank you. | 2024-06-25 18:31:38 | |
| Umm. | 2024-06-25 18:31:40 | |
| Has been only one instance I think we've ever done that in China. | 2024-06-25 18:31:44 | |
| I remember where it was now, but now I can't recall. | 2024-06-25 18:31:47 | |
| Anyway, so I. | 2024-06-25 18:31:50 | |
| Yeah, I'm on vacation. | 2024-06-25 18:31:52 | |
| Yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:31:56 | |
| Well, it's pretty significant if it's a conditional use permit. | 2024-06-25 18:31:59 | |
| Because you have to lay out what they have to do to me. | 2024-06-25 18:32:02 | |
| Get the approval and as long as they do that. | 2024-06-25 18:32:04 | |
| Get the approval whereas the zoning is. | 2024-06-25 18:32:08 | |
| Much more discretionary, right. So thanks for the. | 2024-06-25 18:32:11 | |
| Clarification just along those lines of. | 2024-06-25 18:32:14 | |
| Trying to think through the the requirements. | 2024-06-25 18:32:17 | |
| When it comes in asking. | 2024-06-25 18:32:20 | |
| For the the PUD consideration and. | 2024-06-25 18:32:22 | |
| Concept and you mentioned that they can kind of. | 2024-06-25 18:32:26 | |
| Move around that density. So do you have to? | 2024-06-25 18:32:29 | |
| Specifically call out what can. | 2024-06-25 18:32:32 | |
| Cannot be built upon during that. | 2024-06-25 18:32:35 | |
| Yes, and like I mean this. | 2024-06-25 18:32:38 | |
| Step back, some things change and are quite a bit smaller. | 2024-06-25 18:32:41 | |
| With your PUD so. | 2024-06-25 18:32:44 | |
| I just I think of like. I always use the example of the place. | 2024-06-25 18:32:47 | |
| Behind my house because it's the one I have to look at every day. And I mean. | 2024-06-25 18:32:50 | |
| They have like a 5 1/2. It feels like 5 foot but it's probably. | 2024-06-25 18:32:53 | |
| We can, but it doesn't feel like it's set back and then. | 2024-06-25 18:32:56 | |
| Gargantuan house that I've finally grown enough. | 2024-06-25 18:32:59 | |
| Trees and not quite have to look at. | 2024-06-25 18:33:02 | |
| But I mean, it's got the pitched roof that's like. | 2024-06-25 18:33:05 | |
| 2 1/2 stories tall on top of it right? So I. | 2024-06-25 18:33:08 | |
| Basically have this three story building behind my property. | 2024-06-25 18:33:11 | |
| And they've got like 20 of them crammed in two. | 2024-06-25 18:33:14 | |
| R1 not Sutton, it's. | 2024-06-25 18:33:17 | |
| The holidays. | 2024-06-25 18:33:20 | |
| Villa, I think it's Villa place. Villa place, I think that's what it is. | 2024-06-25 18:33:23 | |
| Yeah, yeah. That is a PUD, right? | 2024-06-25 18:33:26 | |
| If that was done where I first came. | 2024-06-25 18:33:29 | |
| About 2005 ish. 2006 yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:33:32 | |
| So he took his density and and. | 2024-06-25 18:33:35 | |
| Because he wanted to have a meandering lane. | 2024-06-25 18:33:38 | |
| Lots. And they're bigger than others and that. | 2024-06-25 18:33:41 | |
| Fortunate for us because you're not having. | 2024-06-25 18:33:44 | |
| $8000 product. | 2024-06-25 18:33:47 | |
| Spread out over 30 houses, some might. | 2024-06-25 18:33:50 | |
| 250,000 but other. | 2024-06-25 18:33:53 | |
| The lots might be a little bit bigger. | 2024-06-25 18:33:56 | |
| The PUD itself just allowed for flexible. | 2024-06-25 18:33:59 | |
| Ability and whatever the development pattern. | 2024-06-25 18:34:02 | |
| Rather than just flat out cookie cutter development. | 2024-06-25 18:34:05 | |
| For infill. | 2024-06-25 18:34:08 | |
| Like holiday in Mill Creek, I think. | 2024-06-25 18:34:11 | |
| That's a fantastic tool for the Planning Commission to use. | 2024-06-25 18:34:14 | |
| Because it it it modified. | 2024-06-25 18:34:17 | |
| Five. What would be? | 2024-06-25 18:34:20 | |
| Pretty rudimentary development standards. | 2024-06-25 18:34:23 | |
| Within infill neighborhoods and you can. | 2024-06-25 18:34:26 | |
| That you can work with. Hopefully you would be able to. | 2024-06-25 18:34:29 | |
| Work with the developer to massage that new. | 2024-06-25 18:34:32 | |
| Subdivision to sort of meld into. | 2024-06-25 18:34:35 | |
| Existing development pattern of old or. | 2024-06-25 18:34:38 | |
| Like property. | 2024-06-25 18:34:41 | |
| Umm. | 2024-06-25 18:34:44 | |
| Because I haven't done these calculations but it feels like. | 2024-06-25 18:34:47 | |
| Oftentimes, what happens? | 2024-06-25 18:34:50 | |
| With the beauties is they're they're adjusting that. | 2024-06-25 18:34:53 | |
| The houses so the houses can. | 2024-06-25 18:34:56 | |
| Be bigger. That's what it feels like the result is. | 2024-06-25 18:34:59 | |
| At least in a couple of the recent ones that we. | 2024-06-25 18:35:02 | |
| So even though the house. | 2024-06-25 18:35:05 | |
| That are allowed on that law are the same. | 2024-06-25 18:35:08 | |
| The factor density is bigger just because the percentage of. | 2024-06-25 18:35:11 | |
| Of house on the wall is bigger. | 2024-06-25 18:35:14 | |
| Because they've been able to wiggle them. | 2024-06-25 18:35:17 | |
| I mean, and I know that like they have a percentage that they. | 2024-06-25 18:35:20 | |
| Can't go above but it just feels like if they hadn't done the beauty. | 2024-06-25 18:35:23 | |
| The houses would have had to be slightly smaller because they. | 2024-06-25 18:35:26 | |
| Had to see these setbacks, but actually because these setbacks were just. | 2024-06-25 18:35:29 | |
| So they can build a bigger house, right? And and. | 2024-06-25 18:35:32 | |
| What's important to understand too is. | 2024-06-25 18:35:35 | |
| As a PUD is not a given right? | 2024-06-25 18:35:38 | |
| If they're not providing proof. | 2024-06-25 18:35:41 | |
| To you that they're meeting the requirements of what? | 2024-06-25 18:35:44 | |
| But a beauty is intended to preserve and conserve. | 2024-06-25 18:35:47 | |
| And it you don't have no obligation to approve it. | 2024-06-25 18:35:50 | |
| It just feels like these are very fuzzy, like unique. | 2024-06-25 18:35:53 | |
| Neighborhood high quality housing. | 2024-06-25 18:35:56 | |
| Exceptions. I'm like, I don't think anyone's designed him. | 2024-06-25 18:35:59 | |
| And particularly exceptional I got my hot socks haven't been blown off but. | 2024-06-25 18:36:02 | |
| We've approved a lot of them, you know. | 2024-06-25 18:36:05 | |
| Well, if I came to you with A10 acre property and I wanted to. | 2024-06-25 18:36:08 | |
| Preserve 55 acres of it with trees. | 2024-06-25 18:36:11 | |
| And the rest of her or manufactured housing? | 2024-06-25 18:36:14 | |
| You would be looking at that ordinance and saying. | 2024-06-25 18:36:17 | |
| I don't think that I don't know 5 acres. | 2024-06-25 18:36:20 | |
| I'm giving you. | 2024-06-25 18:36:23 | |
| Trees, but my housing is. | 2024-06-25 18:36:26 | |
| I mean, if it's low enough I might not care. | 2024-06-25 18:36:29 | |
| Yeah, it is. | 2024-06-25 18:36:32 | |
| That's right, the canopy cover. But now? | 2024-06-25 18:36:35 | |
| Funds the five acres is in the middle. | 2024-06-25 18:36:38 | |
| Right. So actually on that note. | 2024-06-25 18:36:41 | |
| Would you mind going to that middle tab? | 2024-06-25 18:36:45 | |
| So I have a quick question while you're going. | 2024-06-25 18:36:47 | |
| Is definite. Are we looking at this to? | 2024-06-25 18:36:50 | |
| Make changes to the code or just to help us understand. | 2024-06-25 18:36:54 | |
| OK. Thank you. Yeah, because. | 2024-06-25 18:36:56 | |
| Information of the things, the only reason. | 2024-06-25 18:36:59 | |
| Are you planned? Unit development code is different. | 2024-06-25 18:37:03 | |
| From many other cities that surround us is the develop. | 2024-06-25 18:37:06 | |
| Have to come to you first with a concept plan that meets. | 2024-06-25 18:37:08 | |
| The ordinance. | 2024-06-25 18:37:11 | |
| You have. | 2024-06-25 18:37:12 | |
| They have to provide you proof that their death. | 2024-06-25 18:37:14 | |
| Carrying capacity meets the underlying zone. | 2024-06-25 18:37:18 | |
| Once you prove that. | 2024-06-25 18:37:21 | |
| Then they can come back with a preliminary thing. OK, I have my puzzle. | 2024-06-25 18:37:24 | |
| Now I'm going to move them all around. | 2024-06-25 18:37:26 | |
| And provides you. | 2024-06-25 18:37:29 | |
| What you may seem to. | 2024-06-25 18:37:33 | |
| Thing to believe that it is a better planned unit development that. | 2024-06-25 18:37:36 | |
| Creates better product. | 2024-06-25 18:37:39 | |
| So does that mean that the requirement for a? | 2024-06-25 18:37:41 | |
| PUD and Holiday are stricter than they. | 2024-06-25 18:37:45 | |
| They are in other cities, yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:37:48 | |
| For two reasons, One. | 2024-06-25 18:37:51 | |
| Is the process is that they have to go to that extra? | 2024-06-25 18:37:54 | |
| Step in engineering to prove to you that I have my. | 2024-06-25 18:37:57 | |
| St. width that's required I can get access to it. | 2024-06-25 18:38:00 | |
| Here's all of the. | 2024-06-25 18:38:03 | |
| Layout in the normal 880 foot. | 2024-06-25 18:38:06 | |
| By 100 foot depth of AR110 zone 10,000 square foot. | 2024-06-25 18:38:09 | |
| A lot and on top. | 2024-06-25 18:38:12 | |
| That Planning Commission cannot. | 2024-06-25 18:38:15 | |
| You can alter a lot of things, but they cannot alter height. | 2024-06-25 18:38:18 | |
| You cannot alter use and you cannot alter density. | 2024-06-25 18:38:21 | |
| Some other cities you can do that. | 2024-06-25 18:38:24 | |
| So would you say that most? | 2024-06-25 18:38:27 | |
| Puds have private roads or public roads. | 2024-06-25 18:38:30 | |
| In holiday so can they go to? | 2024-06-25 18:38:33 | |
| 30 foot. 35 foot. | 2024-06-25 18:38:36 | |
| Right of way, 2025 feet they can go down to. | 2024-06-25 18:38:39 | |
| OK, OK. | 2024-06-25 18:38:42 | |
| Really old example of. | 2024-06-25 18:38:45 | |
| Of a plat here that's been shown. | 2024-06-25 18:38:48 | |
| 91 acres though the carry department. | 2024-06-25 18:38:51 | |
| Would come to you as a 331 lot. | 2024-06-25 18:38:54 | |
| Subdivision just very plainly laid out. | 2024-06-25 18:38:57 | |
| Over through a PUD process. | 2024-06-25 18:39:00 | |
| Planned unit development process. They can take those same numbers. | 2024-06-25 18:39:03 | |
| Units clustered them in a way. | 2024-06-25 18:39:06 | |
| Created more town somebody here but. | 2024-06-25 18:39:09 | |
| The intent of the PUD is to provide and preserve. | 2024-06-25 18:39:12 | |
| Open space. | 2024-06-25 18:39:14 | |
| Walkability. | 2024-06-25 18:39:15 | |
| Tree canopy community location. | 2024-06-25 18:39:18 | |
| There. | 2024-06-25 18:39:21 | |
| At the new neighborhood in itself rather than. | 2024-06-25 18:39:24 | |
| Majority of them being private backyards or front yards. | 2024-06-25 18:39:27 | |
| The schematic we're looking. | 2024-06-25 18:39:30 | |
| Thing here is literally like the very best. | 2024-06-25 18:39:33 | |
| Best case scenario and like it's it's. | 2024-06-25 18:39:36 | |
| Let's be honest, this isn't real. Like in America today, this might be real. | 2024-06-25 18:39:39 | |
| Russia, but not in America, right? | 2024-06-25 18:39:42 | |
| In this county has 91 acres like this to work with. | 2024-06-25 18:39:45 | |
| Right, but it gives you a good idea as to what. | 2024-06-25 18:39:48 | |
| Coming to you with a planned unit on, even if it's a 2 lot split. | 2024-06-25 18:39:51 | |
| And we're talking about converting an artificial golf course, buddy. | 2024-06-25 18:39:54 | |
| Green to open space. | 2024-06-25 18:39:57 | |
| There's a passive smell test. | 2024-06-25 18:40:00 | |
| Umm, OK. | 2024-06-25 18:40:03 | |
| The PUD, it would still be private to the PUD, there's no. | 2024-06-25 18:40:09 | |
| Sense that the beauty has to not necessarily. | 2024-06-25 18:40:12 | |
| No, not necessarily. | 2024-06-25 18:40:15 | |
| Did have in fact if you want to go to the next tab. | 2024-06-25 18:40:18 | |
| If we had an opportunity for the development to front. | 2024-06-25 18:40:21 | |
| Lake Street. It could be dedicated as. | 2024-06-25 18:40:24 | |
| The public park, Pocket Park. | 2024-06-25 18:40:27 | |
| And you could say the public has access to, not just. | 2024-06-25 18:40:30 | |
| People in their beauty, Yeah. And if that's the case. | 2024-06-25 18:40:33 | |
| Everybody great, but we don't want to maintain it. | 2024-06-25 18:40:36 | |
| City Council has to get in involved with the develop. | 2024-06-25 18:40:39 | |
| An agreement. So yeah, we'll take over the pocket part from making food. | 2024-06-25 18:40:42 | |
| This design is almost good, but my soccer knocked off the. | 2024-06-25 18:40:45 | |
| You know what, it's 'cause their cars are in front of their house. So if you wanna go to the park. | 2024-06-25 18:40:48 | |
| You could get hit by a car, they can't walk there by yourself. | 2024-06-25 18:40:51 | |
| Yeah, the reason why I put this one in here. | 2024-06-25 18:40:54 | |
| I think Angela wants the chair. | 2024-06-25 18:40:57 | |
| I want to be an architect. | 2024-06-25 18:41:00 | |
| This one actually comes off of a. | 2024-06-25 18:41:03 | |
| Private public streets. | 2024-06-25 18:41:06 | |
| Not a cold effect, but it's kind of a. | 2024-06-25 18:41:09 | |
| Parking port so it's not really fronting on any. | 2024-06-25 18:41:12 | |
| Street. But the reason why I put this in here is they brought all of the home. | 2024-06-25 18:41:15 | |
| Up into the part of the lot. | 2024-06-25 18:41:18 | |
| Or if they can keep a lot of the canopy back. | 2024-06-25 18:41:21 | |
| Canopy behind our is all common to the. | 2024-06-25 18:41:24 | |
| Of the property without backyard. | 2024-06-25 18:41:27 | |
| Game working and it takes away. | 2024-06-25 18:41:30 | |
| Like and we still going through the three-step process with. | 2024-06-25 18:41:36 | |
| Concept Preliminary, Final, or. | 2024-06-25 18:41:39 | |
| Modified that a little bit, however. | 2024-06-25 18:41:45 | |
| Until it gets challenged, I still have. I'm still going to be bringing it to a. | 2024-06-25 18:41:48 | |
| Concept 1st and then they have to come back for. | 2024-06-25 18:41:51 | |
| Preliminary. | 2024-06-25 18:41:54 | |
| Concern I have is like we look at a concept and say OK. | 2024-06-25 18:41:57 | |
| That's great. And then they bypass it with the new state law. | 2024-06-25 18:42:00 | |
| And it's like all of a sudden, you know, make. | 2024-06-25 18:42:03 | |
| No sense at all based on what we saw. | 2024-06-25 18:42:06 | |
| Is still going to come to you, but. | 2024-06-25 18:42:09 | |
| More in a more fleshed out version, you'll have more elements from. | 2024-06-25 18:42:12 | |
| The preliminary show. | 2024-06-25 18:42:15 | |
| On the concept plan. | 2024-06-25 18:42:18 | |
| And the engineering and the. | 2024-06-25 18:42:18 | |
| Back end will happen at the staff level so you get to see more of a. | 2024-06-25 18:42:21 | |
| Hybrid between kind of what you've been seeing? | 2024-06-25 18:42:24 | |
| You going for concept? Yes, that looks good. We're going to approve. | 2024-06-25 18:42:27 | |
| And then we're going to move into preliminary approval. | 2024-06-25 18:42:30 | |
| They'll just be combined into one motion. Most most. | 2024-06-25 18:42:33 | |
| But when we give consideration to a. | 2024-06-25 18:42:36 | |
| New PUD that's being proposed, whether it's two houses. | 2024-06-25 18:42:39 | |
| Where one needs to be or 60 where? | 2024-06-25 18:42:42 | |
| Parking lot used to be we've got. | 2024-06-25 18:42:45 | |
| To make sure we're comfortable with the density being right up against the edges. | 2024-06-25 18:42:48 | |
| Very clearly called out what we're getting. | 2024-06-25 18:42:51 | |
| In return as far as open space or designated with that. | 2024-06-25 18:42:54 | |
| Right, right. It could be the reason for that being. | 2024-06-25 18:42:57 | |
| You have to set the record clear for the public public transport. | 2024-06-25 18:43:00 | |
| Purposes. | 2024-06-25 18:43:03 | |
| You go back. | 2024-06-25 18:43:03 | |
| And all these lots are shoved into a corner. | 2024-06-25 18:43:06 | |
| Or they're jumbled in a way that. | 2024-06-25 18:43:09 | |
| That it's unclear to the neighbor. | 2024-06-25 18:43:12 | |
| I don't think that even meets the density it looks too. | 2024-06-25 18:43:15 | |
| Too much. You can go back to the record and say, well, that. | 2024-06-25 18:43:18 | |
| Provided the subdivision plat in a concept form. | 2024-06-25 18:43:21 | |
| That showed they only have right to hate home. | 2024-06-25 18:43:24 | |
| Easier at home, but they're in a smaller location. | 2024-06-25 18:43:27 | |
| Property. | 2024-06-25 18:43:30 | |
| And then if they wanted to. | 2024-06-25 18:43:30 | |
| Build anything else they'd have to come back. | 2024-06-25 18:43:33 | |
| Does that include also like accessory dwelling use? | 2024-06-25 18:43:36 | |
| Or accessory units, well, hopefully we would address that. | 2024-06-25 18:43:39 | |
| At that time, but yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:43:42 | |
| Gets platted that way so that. | 2024-06-25 18:43:45 | |
| That big area gets set aside as open space. | 2024-06-25 18:43:48 | |
| If they would amend that, they have to come back to you and do that. | 2024-06-25 18:43:51 | |
| Because the open space and perpetuity tell when. | 2024-06-25 18:43:54 | |
| Ever. Ever, anyone, whoever bought that law. | 2024-06-25 18:43:57 | |
| Yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:44:00 | |
| The only property. | 2024-06-25 18:44:03 | |
| Sorry if that space is designated. | 2024-06-25 18:44:06 | |
| Because they've shoved all the dwelling units into one corner. | 2024-06-25 18:44:09 | |
| Why would they ever come back to us? | 2024-06-25 18:44:12 | |
| That's for more units. | 2024-06-25 18:44:15 | |
| Either, well, even more units, or maybe. | 2024-06-25 18:44:18 | |
| Owners. | 2024-06-25 18:44:21 | |
| Want to amend their backyard? Have a bigger backyard take? | 2024-06-25 18:44:24 | |
| Some of that open space, and that's really only. | 2024-06-25 18:44:27 | |
| Happened once since I've been here. | 2024-06-25 18:44:30 | |
| Development on the Corner 30. | 2024-06-25 18:44:33 | |
| 900,000 Island up above. | 2024-06-25 18:44:36 | |
| Reserving. | 2024-06-25 18:44:39 | |
| Is conserved. | 2024-06-25 18:44:42 | |
| In perpetuity under PUD property. | 2024-06-25 18:44:46 | |
| There wanted to have a pool. | 2024-06-25 18:44:49 | |
| And so they needed to amend that line. | 2024-06-25 18:44:51 | |
| Bring that line down the hill. | 2024-06-25 18:44:54 | |
| Put a pool in their backyard and he came to the planet. | 2024-06-25 18:44:58 | |
| Commission for a plat amendment and to amend the PUD. | 2024-06-25 18:45:01 | |
| To change that. | 2024-06-25 18:45:03 | |
| An area of all those trees, they're on that side. | 2024-06-25 18:45:07 | |
| We did that with the words. | 2024-06-25 18:45:10 | |
| Development to for their guest house. | 2024-06-25 18:45:13 | |
| It wasn't on their community plaques an area. | 2024-06-25 18:45:15 | |
| And that was a similar situation. Yeah, I'm not quite. | 2024-06-25 18:45:19 | |
| Did they get it? | 2024-06-25 18:45:22 | |
| The plan increase at the time did. | 2024-06-25 18:45:25 | |
| Yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:45:28 | |
| Yeah, probably. | 2024-06-25 18:45:31 | |
| 2008 or so. | 2024-06-25 18:45:34 | |
| Open the Republic. | 2024-06-25 18:45:36 | |
| Yeah, every. | 2024-06-25 18:45:37 | |
| But it was notified. | 2024-06-25 18:45:40 | |
| One question, do you? | 2024-06-25 18:45:43 | |
| As staff feel like you have the necessary. | 2024-06-25 18:45:46 | |
| To be able to direct applicants that. | 2024-06-25 18:45:49 | |
| Want a PUD to be able to do it in a. | 2024-06-25 18:45:52 | |
| Ways that kind of results in a better product. | 2024-06-25 18:45:55 | |
| I mean answer that. | 2024-06-25 18:45:58 | |
| OK, go and then if you get the same, I bet it's the same. | 2024-06-25 18:46:01 | |
| Not necessarily. The reason being. | 2024-06-25 18:46:07 | |
| That you have to have a. Do you have the the? | 2024-06-25 18:46:10 | |
| One yes. Yep. | 2024-06-25 18:46:16 | |
| You make that a little bit bigger. | 2024-06-25 18:46:19 | |
| R110 zone. | 2024-06-25 18:46:21 | |
| Yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:46:22 | |
| 30,000 square feet even to begin to talk. | 2024-06-25 18:46:25 | |
| Three times the size. | 2024-06-25 18:46:31 | |
| But you have to have at least 30,000 square foot proper. | 2024-06-25 18:46:37 | |
| In my mind is. | 2024-06-25 18:46:40 | |
| As a planner. | 2024-06-25 18:46:43 | |
| Minimum starting point shouldn't be necessary. | 2024-06-25 18:46:46 | |
| They really need to be the threshold needed across the. | 2024-06-25 18:46:49 | |
| Threshold across is to provide to the Planning Commission and. | 2024-06-25 18:46:52 | |
| And the surrounding neighborhood. Why am I getting? | 2024-06-25 18:46:55 | |
| Why is the city getting a better product in this subdivision? | 2024-06-25 18:46:58 | |
| Through a PUD than normal. | 2024-06-25 18:47:01 | |
| Well, typically you need more space to work. | 2024-06-25 18:47:04 | |
| To preserve the info. | 2024-06-25 18:47:07 | |
| Yes, that's true in a large in larger cities, but when in? | 2024-06-25 18:47:10 | |
| We don't have that much space to deal with at first. | 2024-06-25 18:47:13 | |
| I might have two abutting properties in there. | 2024-06-25 18:47:16 | |
| Backyard is orchard and they all have 1020 thousand. | 2024-06-25 18:47:19 | |
| Square feet. The landlord preserved that big. | 2024-06-25 18:47:22 | |
| Face in the back. I have to split up. | 2024-06-25 18:47:25 | |
| Background so that each lot still has 10,000. | 2024-06-25 18:47:28 | |
| And now we've lost the ability to convert. | 2024-06-25 18:47:31 | |
| Controlled lot coverage. | 2024-06-25 18:47:34 | |
| Canopy any number. | 2024-06-25 18:47:37 | |
| Of environmental but. | 2024-06-25 18:47:40 | |
| That that's that's my answer, but I don't know. | 2024-06-25 18:47:43 | |
| Appreciate that because I think it is very difficult. | 2024-06-25 18:47:46 | |
| I think by the questions you're seeing and hearing from the community. | 2024-06-25 18:47:49 | |
| This doesn't really guide. | 2024-06-25 18:47:52 | |
| To a point where we're going to agree. | 2024-06-25 18:47:55 | |
| Yes, that works. This doesn't. | 2024-06-25 18:47:58 | |
| It's going to be another one of those arbitrary kind of floating. | 2024-06-25 18:48:01 | |
| Things that we can't overhead. | 2024-06-25 18:48:04 | |
| So and I think working with applicants too. | 2024-06-25 18:48:07 | |
| They appreciate having some guidance too, like they want to. | 2024-06-25 18:48:10 | |
| They're like, well, what do I need to put in an open space? | 2024-06-25 18:48:13 | |
| Or how big does that need to be? Or. | 2024-06-25 18:48:16 | |
| What is a reasonable amount to? | 2024-06-25 18:48:19 | |
| Adjust setbacks because that's primarily what it. | 2024-06-25 18:48:22 | |
| What he does is you're changing setbacks. | 2024-06-25 18:48:25 | |
| Or asking for a smaller set back in a. | 2024-06-25 18:48:28 | |
| Exchange for an open space or. | 2024-06-25 18:48:31 | |
| Grouping structures closer to. | 2024-06-25 18:48:34 | |
| Together or maybe more on the perimeter so you have more centralized so. | 2024-06-25 18:48:37 | |
| And that's just how that works out to the. | 2024-06-25 18:48:40 | |
| If you have open space, you have to move the. | 2024-06-25 18:48:43 | |
| Away from the open space. | 2024-06-25 18:48:46 | |
| That sometimes is hard to conception. | 2024-06-25 18:48:49 | |
| Life as an applicant or even as a plan to. | 2024-06-25 18:48:52 | |
| I said it's like, well, I see there you have open space there, but it. | 2024-06-25 18:48:55 | |
| Doesn't necessarily feel like open space. | 2024-06-25 18:48:58 | |
| However, when you look at. | 2024-06-25 18:49:01 | |
| What the property would be otherwise? | 2024-06-25 18:49:04 | |
| If you apply the standard set back. | 2024-06-25 18:49:07 | |
| And how it it typically will push. | 2024-06-25 18:49:10 | |
| The house into the middle, so you get sides of that. | 2024-06-25 18:49:13 | |
| Back and sidestep back and rear in front. | 2024-06-25 18:49:16 | |
| Versus being able to move it away and concentrate. | 2024-06-25 18:49:19 | |
| Some of that open space together. | 2024-06-25 18:49:22 | |
| But it is it can be hard to conceptualize. | 2024-06-25 18:49:25 | |
| And I think that process with going through the the three-step. | 2024-06-25 18:49:28 | |
| Process with concept, preliminary and. | 2024-06-25 18:49:31 | |
| Final, the Commission can look at a concept and say. | 2024-06-25 18:49:35 | |
| Oh, I think you're going in the right direction. Come back. | 2024-06-25 18:49:37 | |
| With some of these specific details and guidelines. | 2024-06-25 18:49:40 | |
| That we discussed in Planning Choices. | 2024-06-25 18:49:43 | |
| So just to make sure I understand like. | 2024-06-25 18:49:46 | |
| With the requirements everything else I'm trying to figure. | 2024-06-25 18:49:49 | |
| Think of real world scenarios where it's not all just. | 2024-06-25 18:49:53 | |
| About you know, how can I make more money off of this? | 2024-06-25 18:49:55 | |
| But let's say Dennis Roach wins the lottery tomorrow. | 2024-06-25 18:49:59 | |
| And buys up half his neighborhood and says OK, I'm gonna buy the house. | 2024-06-25 18:50:02 | |
| Next to me, two up from him and by both. | 2024-06-25 18:50:04 | |
| Those lots and I'm going to come and I'm going to say OK, I. | 2024-06-25 18:50:08 | |
| Have these three and I want to create a PUD and I'm going to fold those. | 2024-06-25 18:50:10 | |
| My house and I'm gonna put this really cool castle with a giant. | 2024-06-25 18:50:14 | |
| Yard and then I'm gonna put 2 little smaller houses right now. | 2024-06-25 18:50:17 | |
| Next to it but either trade off for that PUD is my. | 2024-06-25 18:50:19 | |
| Really cool giant backyard with a mini golf course in it. | 2024-06-25 18:50:23 | |
| Right like that. That would fall into. | 2024-06-25 18:50:26 | |
| Line with the PUD because I'm giving the city over. | 2024-06-25 18:50:28 | |
| Open space to have my little, you know, fight. | 2024-06-25 18:50:32 | |
| Yeah, it's, yeah, a city and. | 2024-06-25 18:50:34 | |
| People who live there. So it's not, it's not even necessarily a benefit. | 2024-06-25 18:50:38 | |
| To the city or residents, I mean overall develop. | 2024-06-25 18:50:41 | |
| Pattern is yes, there's a larger area of open. | 2024-06-25 18:50:44 | |
| Space for the people who live there. There's been. | 2024-06-25 18:50:46 | |
| Benefits for them, There are a lot of people in the city. | 2024-06-25 18:50:50 | |
| Who would like to have a pickleball chords in their yard? | 2024-06-25 18:50:53 | |
| But not all yards can house a pickleball court. | 2024-06-25 18:50:55 | |
| So if you have a beauty and you create a pickle. | 2024-06-25 18:50:59 | |
| Court that maybe a large house in two. | 2024-06-25 18:51:02 | |
| Smaller houses I'll get fares if you're buying it. | 2024-06-25 18:51:05 | |
| One of those really quick I have a pickleball court. | 2024-06-25 18:51:08 | |
| Right. So there's there's a different. | 2024-06-25 18:51:14 | |
| Different kind of concept of what is open space and what. | 2024-06-25 18:51:16 | |
| What is a benefit? And I think that that's where it can. | 2024-06-25 18:51:20 | |
| Be a little bit tricky to flush out, but. | 2024-06-25 18:51:23 | |
| Typically when I'm working out. | 2024-06-25 18:51:25 | |
| And it's like, spell out specifically what the benefit. | 2024-06-25 18:51:29 | |
| Yes, it is. If you're proposing this, then be there. | 2024-06-25 18:51:32 | |
| Very clear about about what the benefit is. | 2024-06-25 18:51:35 | |
| Were the people who lived there and for the city overall. | 2024-06-25 18:51:38 | |
| And I think for me, when I look at new PUD's, it's the nightmare. | 2024-06-25 18:51:41 | |
| Scenario What's in my backyard that immediately comes to mind? | 2024-06-25 18:51:44 | |
| Because while that curve is cool and a neat infant. | 2024-06-25 18:51:47 | |
| So it also pushes these giant homes. | 2024-06-25 18:51:50 | |
| Right up to the back of my property line, which now. | 2024-06-25 18:51:53 | |
| I used to have a view of sky and trees. | 2024-06-25 18:51:56 | |
| View of pure middle roof shapes you know in. | 2024-06-25 18:51:59 | |
| Four directions and like don't have. | 2024-06-25 18:52:02 | |
| Essentially I have to plant a bunch of trees if I don't want to look at names. | 2024-06-25 18:52:05 | |
| Neighbor houses, you know, and I think that. | 2024-06-25 18:52:08 | |
| Just comes down to the. | 2024-06-25 18:52:11 | |
| Planning of that flat, you know how he chose to bring. | 2024-06-25 18:52:14 | |
| Then at the Planning Commission at the time. | 2024-06-25 18:52:17 | |
| There could have been definitely other ways to do that. | 2024-06-25 18:52:20 | |
| So I think. | 2024-06-25 18:52:23 | |
| From staff point of view, if you had the ability. | 2024-06-25 18:52:26 | |
| And you think of every single subdivision that's come to you. | 2024-06-25 18:52:29 | |
| With public opposition. | 2024-06-25 18:52:32 | |
| That we could have helped them apply for a plan. | 2024-06-25 18:52:35 | |
| Unit development to sort of soften those woes. | 2024-06-25 18:52:38 | |
| It would have been a better tool because. | 2024-06-25 18:52:41 | |
| The underlying premise is subdivisions if they meet. | 2024-06-25 18:52:44 | |
| Can't be disapproved. | 2024-06-25 18:52:47 | |
| Well, you could try, but our my responsibility. | 2024-06-25 18:52:50 | |
| And carry responsibility by the time an application comes to you. | 2024-06-25 18:52:53 | |
| It's 99% approval. | 2024-06-25 18:52:56 | |
| What you don't see? | 2024-06-25 18:52:59 | |
| We're trying to get them to do in the behind the scenes is to get some. | 2024-06-25 18:53:02 | |
| Something that it doesn't fall flat on the face that we have to. | 2024-06-25 18:53:05 | |
| Recommended denial just because they want to get through the. | 2024-06-25 18:53:08 | |
| Process subdivisions if they meet. | 2024-06-25 18:53:11 | |
| Ordinance have to be fundamentally approvable. | 2024-06-25 18:53:14 | |
| But if they want to go to a higher restaurant. | 2024-06-25 18:53:17 | |
| Threshold and ask for PUD. | 2024-06-25 18:53:20 | |
| To have their own style and feel. | 2024-06-25 18:53:23 | |
| It's up to you to have. | 2024-06-25 18:53:26 | |
| Have been proved to you that they deserve that to you. | 2024-06-25 18:53:29 | |
| So John, in the case that the. | 2024-06-25 18:53:32 | |
| Dennis just described was. | 2024-06-25 18:53:35 | |
| In that process to protect him. | 2024-06-25 18:53:41 | |
| Or was he just out of luck because? | 2024-06-25 18:53:44 | |
| So if you would have said if. | 2024-06-25 18:53:47 | |
| Were you an owner at the time? I was not know this. This was 20. | 2024-06-25 18:53:50 | |
| Years ago, right after the city incorporated. | 2024-06-25 18:53:53 | |
| So you know it's surrounding neighbors around that because that distance. | 2024-06-25 18:53:56 | |
| Element is probably only 100, maybe 150. | 2024-06-25 18:53:59 | |
| 50 feet wide by maybe 500 feet deep. | 2024-06-25 18:54:02 | |
| Really long deep development. | 2024-06-25 18:54:05 | |
| Goes right down the middle, so if the. | 2024-06-25 18:54:08 | |
| Surrounding neighborhoods, the time and you take picture. | 2024-06-25 18:54:11 | |
| Yourself and the Planning Commission hearing this. | 2024-06-25 18:54:14 | |
| Yeah, if they were to propose. | 2024-06-25 18:54:17 | |
| You can come back and say, well, can we flip the? | 2024-06-25 18:54:20 | |
| Or can we have half the road on one side and then? | 2024-06-25 18:54:23 | |
| Makes an F turn have 1/2 roll the other side so it. | 2024-06-25 18:54:26 | |
| Neighbors in the existing subdivision of existing. | 2024-06-25 18:54:29 | |
| Can still feel like they have a backyard even though it's just. | 2024-06-25 18:54:32 | |
| Driveway, or even an alleyway that. | 2024-06-25 18:54:35 | |
| Probably would have helped the situation. | 2024-06-25 18:54:38 | |
| He had the developer at the time had a right to Oliver. | 2024-06-25 18:54:41 | |
| For how they get developed, and maybe it would have been. | 2024-06-25 18:54:44 | |
| Merging 2 units together. | 2024-06-25 18:54:47 | |
| To move things up to the street, up to. | 2024-06-25 18:54:50 | |
| And keeping the rest of the back. | 2024-06-25 18:54:53 | |
| And I have no idea what the rezone was on. | 2024-06-25 18:54:56 | |
| Because I know I'm an R110 where I live, right? | 2024-06-25 18:54:59 | |
| And you can see that on both sides with this development. | 2024-06-25 18:55:02 | |
| But yeah, I mean the the PD. | 2024-06-25 18:55:05 | |
| And whatever the zoning was for. | 2024-06-25 18:55:08 | |
| Approve the rezone to. | 2024-06-25 18:55:11 | |
| I'm thinking it's. | 2024-06-25 18:55:14 | |
| And R2. | 2024-06-25 18:55:17 | |
| The Villa wing we were looking at, yeah. | 2024-06-25 18:55:20 | |
| That's what she just had up on the screen with the villa. | 2024-06-25 18:55:23 | |
| That it's my go to example of like when I think of like a. | 2024-06-25 18:55:26 | |
| OK, what's the nightmare scenario of approving APU? | 2024-06-25 18:55:29 | |
| For this or let's rezone it from our one. | 2024-06-25 18:55:32 | |
| And R18 and then if they come back and say I want to pee. | 2024-06-25 18:55:35 | |
| Can they now put in, you know, three or four times? | 2024-06-25 18:55:38 | |
| Townhomes and a little circle. | 2024-06-25 18:55:41 | |
| Right where like one or two houses used to be kind of thing. | 2024-06-25 18:55:44 | |
| If they can live with the height, because you know. | 2024-06-25 18:55:47 | |
| R110 the the, the the. | 2024-06-25 18:55:50 | |
| Max lock our height is 32 feet so they want to put it. | 2024-06-25 18:55:53 | |
| Download that We have to live with 3280. | 2024-06-25 18:55:56 | |
| Yeah, it's a different zone. Yeah. But I mean, that's the thing like. | 2024-06-25 18:55:59 | |
| And think about the one that we had just literally at the end of May. | 2024-06-25 18:56:02 | |
| Lay there. If you just go up a little bit on the screen there. | 2024-06-25 18:56:05 | |
| Gary right. We just. | 2024-06-25 18:56:08 | |
| Saw this one that is right next to the R210 right there. | 2024-06-25 18:56:11 | |
| Where that duplex or that guy? | 2024-06-25 18:56:14 | |
| House was with the studio in the back. That's R 118. | 2024-06-25 18:56:17 | |
| Now, right, So like if he comes back and gets. | 2024-06-25 18:56:20 | |
| The PUD approved he could do three homes as long as. | 2024-06-25 18:56:23 | |
| We can fit with the height right along and drive. | 2024-06-25 18:56:26 | |
| Yeah, but you would be up to you to determine what. | 2024-06-25 18:56:29 | |
| He deserved the POD. | 2024-06-25 18:56:32 | |
| Just because we have flexibility and setbacks, which is great. | 2024-06-25 18:56:36 | |
| For the developer and to get them to get what they. | 2024-06-25 18:56:38 | |
| Product they need on the property. | 2024-06-25 18:56:41 | |
| But if it doesn't provide the. | 2024-06-25 18:56:44 | |
| Basic necessity of what a community is looking. | 2024-06-25 18:56:47 | |
| For providing open space for some sort. | 2024-06-25 18:56:51 | |
| Sort of amenity that that that presumes. | 2024-06-25 18:56:53 | |
| The use of open space. | 2024-06-25 18:56:56 | |
| You can definitely kick it back. | 2024-06-25 18:56:59 | |
| Up here on the corner. | 2024-06-25 18:57:02 | |
| 45th and 23rd. | 2024-06-25 18:57:06 | |
| The water department site. | 2024-06-25 18:57:09 | |
| It's still home. | 2024-06-25 18:57:12 | |
| That they said they were gonna leave the. | 2024-06-25 18:57:14 | |
| Yeah, they said they were going to leave them. | 2024-06-25 18:57:18 | |
| Because they're being rented. Uh-huh, I found. | 2024-06-25 18:57:21 | |
| Like they sold enough to to warrant. | 2024-06-25 18:57:23 | |
| I was just really curious about. | 2024-06-25 18:57:27 | |
| The one that's on 23rd they were using. | 2024-06-25 18:57:30 | |
| As their leasing office. Mm-hmm. So. | 2024-06-25 18:57:32 | |
| So once the new one gets built, they're going to move their leasing off. | 2024-06-25 18:57:36 | |
| The other one that's up. | 2024-06-25 18:57:39 | |
| Around the corner, it's still being rented. | 2024-06-25 18:57:42 | |
| It's a website. | 2024-06-25 18:57:48 | |
| It will say that. | 2024-06-25 18:57:51 | |
| Fence around There was a lot of. | 2024-06-25 18:58:00 | |
| Discussion when that was here with price. | 2024-06-25 18:58:03 | |
| Air commissioners about like, you know, what could be done and. | 2024-06-25 18:58:06 | |
| Like, well, that's not in front of us. Like, you know, it's great. It's good conversation. | 2024-06-25 18:58:09 | |
| There's nothing we can do about that. | 2024-06-25 18:58:12 | |
| Spent a good two months in discussion. | 2024-06-25 18:58:15 | |
| Solid Public Utilities to get something to work to use that. | 2024-06-25 18:58:18 | |
| Property. | 2024-06-25 18:58:20 | |
| They never. | 2024-06-25 18:58:21 | |
| Getting it back on PD so. | 2024-06-25 18:58:24 | |
| I'm thinking looking back at the couple. | 2024-06-25 18:58:27 | |
| Although I've been involved with. | 2024-06-25 18:58:30 | |
| We probably were not a service enough. | 2024-06-25 18:58:33 | |
| About having the developer. | 2024-06-25 18:58:36 | |
| By the benefit to the city. | 2024-06-25 18:58:39 | |
| And. | 2024-06-25 18:58:42 | |
| Around 45th. | 2024-06-25 18:58:45 | |
| It seemed like the benefit was to keep the neighbors happy. | 2024-06-25 18:58:48 | |
| Be about the trees. And then most of the trees went in. | 2024-06-25 18:58:51 | |
| Anyway, and they haven't. | 2024-06-25 18:58:54 | |
| It's in hindsight we didn't really gain the city benefit. | 2024-06-25 18:58:57 | |
| That I can. | 2024-06-25 18:59:00 | |
| Need to be the one on 45th and. | 2024-06-25 18:59:03 | |
| 2910, yeah, so. | 2024-06-25 18:59:06 | |
| And with that, when they came back. | 2024-06-25 18:59:09 | |
| Plan taking out the Elms they are putting in more. | 2024-06-25 18:59:12 | |
| Trees there, so they were still replacing the trees. | 2024-06-25 18:59:15 | |
| What else was the city benefit of the? | 2024-06-25 18:59:18 | |
| Them replacing trees. | 2024-06-25 18:59:21 | |
| Because of how the houses were angled and. | 2024-06-25 18:59:24 | |
| Shifted away. It created that large open space. | 2024-06-25 18:59:27 | |
| Those those lots of otherwise would have been. | 2024-06-25 18:59:30 | |
| An 8000 square foot lots with. | 2024-06-25 18:59:33 | |
| Health is kind of built out the maximums of their setbacks. | 2024-06-25 18:59:36 | |
| With likely wouldn't have been. | 2024-06-25 18:59:39 | |
| Resulted in a larger open space background outside. | 2024-06-25 18:59:42 | |
| To clarify, are you talking about 40? | 2024-06-25 18:59:45 | |
| 23rd where we're just looking, are you talking? | 2024-06-25 18:59:48 | |
| Medical Center thing. | 2024-06-25 18:59:51 | |
| 4510 S. | 2024-06-25 18:59:54 | |
| And the and the weird angle. | 2024-06-25 18:59:57 | |
| Yeah, it's a weird angle. | 2024-06-25 19:00:00 | |
| Widens out at the back. | 2024-06-25 19:00:03 | |
| Open space for the benefit of the residents. | 2024-06-25 19:00:06 | |
| To bought the home city. | 2024-06-25 19:00:09 | |
| Yeah, I think your warranty. | 2024-06-25 19:00:12 | |
| Time because the neighbors. | 2024-06-25 19:00:15 | |
| That backyard were appreciative. | 2024-06-25 19:00:18 | |
| Wider backyards that were being grand. | 2024-06-25 19:00:21 | |
| Because it kept that opener open. | 2024-06-25 19:00:24 | |
| Feel not necessarily for the city, but in in. | 2024-06-25 19:00:27 | |
| One of those in one of these objectives that talks about. | 2024-06-25 19:00:30 | |
| Unique neighborhoods or high quality houses? | 2024-06-25 19:00:33 | |
| Unique neighborhoods is. | 2024-06-25 19:00:36 | |
| It's dysoteric, you know, It's something that can be. | 2024-06-25 19:00:39 | |
| Manipulated doesn't mean anything you want, I mean. | 2024-06-25 19:00:42 | |
| That's why you haven't put them here. | 2024-06-25 19:00:45 | |
| They've been notified in that neighborhood. | 2024-06-25 19:00:48 | |
| Find it loosely is what unique neighborhood. | 2024-06-25 19:00:51 | |
| In the thought process in our discussion. | 2024-06-25 19:00:57 | |
| And we're doing the findings we have done. | 2024-06-25 19:01:00 | |
| I was that benefited. | 2024-06-25 19:01:03 | |
| Yup. | 2024-06-25 19:01:03 | |
| Or even have a finding. | 2024-06-25 19:01:06 | |
| Each one of the requirements of the P. | 2024-06-25 19:01:09 | |
| It looks like. | 2024-06-25 19:01:12 | |
| And and. | 2024-06-25 19:01:15 | |
| Kind of put the burden on you guys, but we don't. | 2024-06-25 19:01:18 | |
| Typically hear the answers to those questions from Develop. | 2024-06-25 19:01:21 | |
| Valve them and that I you know. | 2024-06-25 19:01:27 | |
| The first time a developer comes in. | 2024-06-25 19:01:30 | |
| It would be guys here. | 2024-06-25 19:01:33 | |
| Their argument for why this is unique for the city? | 2024-06-25 19:01:36 | |
| Help people on the lot. | 2024-06-25 19:01:45 | |
| How do you mean like? | 2024-06-25 19:01:48 | |
| They have a presented nicely in the staff report. | 2024-06-25 19:01:51 | |
| Well, condition one. | 2024-06-25 19:01:54 | |
| Yeah, yeah. | 2024-06-25 19:01:57 | |
| After for those developers giving the. | 2024-06-25 19:02:00 | |
| And that you can make it back and forth from the. | 2024-06-25 19:02:03 | |
| Checks off something to help us get. | 2024-06-25 19:02:06 | |
| Where we won't want to get because I really see. | 2024-06-25 19:02:09 | |
| That we can be a little more. | 2024-06-25 19:02:12 | |
| Assertive now pushing for. | 2024-06-25 19:02:15 | |
| Things they could make things better. | 2024-06-25 19:02:18 | |
| And there, yeah. | 2024-06-25 19:02:21 | |
| Entitled by right and we can make a fine. | 2024-06-25 19:02:25 | |
| What they've offered. | 2024-06-25 19:02:27 | |
| Which is why I think every subdivision should be at the union. | 2024-06-25 19:02:31 | |
| Yeah, so. | 2024-06-25 19:02:33 | |
| Let me let me make sure anything we think or I don't know, sorry. | 2024-06-25 19:02:36 | |
| But the idea of a public. | 2024-06-25 19:02:39 | |
| Benefit. It has to be the idea of the open. | 2024-06-25 19:02:42 | |
| Space or whatever has to benefit more than the people on the lot or the. | 2024-06-25 19:02:46 | |
| People who would live there are part of. | 2024-06-25 19:02:48 | |
| When they would move in and then they would be holding. | 2024-06-25 19:02:52 | |
| Yeah, I think that's an option to you to consider. | 2024-06-25 19:02:54 | |
| It doesn't say public benefit, it says benefit to the new. | 2024-06-25 19:02:58 | |
| In the neighborhood, meaning if somebody lives. | 2024-06-25 19:03:00 | |
| They're so if all. | 2024-06-25 19:03:03 | |
| All the neighbors don't like it, but they sold for. | 2024-06-25 19:03:07 | |
| A lot of money because that was very valuable to people moving all. | 2024-06-25 19:03:10 | |
| Onto the lot. Is that a sufficient benefit? | 2024-06-25 19:03:12 | |
| It's the best. | 2024-06-25 19:03:16 | |
| Benefit for the neighborhood if they use more to that some of that area. | 2024-06-25 19:03:19 | |
| That they're trying to I guess what I'm trying to. | 2024-06-25 19:03:22 | |
| If I'm giving up required set. | 2024-06-25 19:03:25 | |
| Make smaller setbacks. | 2024-06-25 19:03:28 | |
| What am I doing with that extra land and what? | 2024-06-25 19:03:31 | |
| Benefit of it to the neighborhood that's being created. | 2024-06-25 19:03:34 | |
| And potentially the surrounding neighborhood that's. | 2024-06-25 19:03:37 | |
| Being impacted. | 2024-06-25 19:03:39 | |
| Came to you and said, well I have a small. | 2024-06-25 19:03:43 | |
| 50 by 50 plot I can open it up. | 2024-06-25 19:03:46 | |
| Entire neighborhood for a BBQ pavilion. | 2024-06-25 19:03:49 | |
| Gardening plots or a top lot? | 2024-06-25 19:03:52 | |
| That's considerable. | 2024-06-25 19:03:54 | |
| Dog park. Sure dog park. | 2024-06-25 19:03:58 | |
| Pickleball court, whatever. | 2024-06-25 19:04:01 | |
| Accessible. It could be publicly accessible. | 2024-06-25 19:04:04 | |
| But if they say no and they're like fine, I'm going to. | 2024-06-25 19:04:07 | |
| In the subdivision you can't turn me down so. | 2024-06-25 19:04:10 | |
| So we actually want to be more friendly to people. | 2024-06-25 19:04:13 | |
| Because we have more control. | 2024-06-25 19:04:16 | |
| It. | 2024-06-25 19:04:19 | |
| I just am not sure actually what's the outcome for her I. | 2024-06-25 19:04:22 | |
| And I didn't get word because actually. | 2024-06-25 19:04:25 | |
| If we have more control, but then we're more demanding or. | 2024-06-25 19:04:28 | |
| They're going to turn around and say, wait, I'm not going to do it. | 2024-06-25 19:04:31 | |
| And I think that it may be helpful for applicants. | 2024-06-25 19:04:34 | |
| To show what their lot layout would be before it. | 2024-06-25 19:04:37 | |
| And I think on that one that you're talking about, they did have. | 2024-06-25 19:04:40 | |
| Here's what the lots would be like, and if they were. | 2024-06-25 19:04:43 | |
| To actually show the setbacks and where the houses would be. | 2024-06-25 19:04:46 | |
| And how that benefits? | 2024-06-25 19:04:49 | |
| Altered by ingoing building path. | 2024-06-25 19:04:52 | |
| Or moving people a little bit closer Most of the time. Step back. | 2024-06-25 19:04:55 | |
| Are altered by an angle, they're not shoving it. | 2024-06-25 19:04:58 | |
| All the way up next to the property line. It's typical. | 2024-06-25 19:05:01 | |
| Angled so you have some that's close and some that's further. | 2024-06-25 19:05:04 | |
| But because of how our. | 2024-06-25 19:05:07 | |
| Set backs are designed. It's that you can't have any point close. | 2024-06-25 19:05:10 | |
| 3rd than a specific thing and then an average. | 2024-06-25 19:05:13 | |
| But if they were to show, how lots would be there? | 2024-06-25 19:05:16 | |
| Developed under a permitted. | 2024-06-25 19:05:19 | |
| Normal subdivision and then compare it. | 2024-06-25 19:05:22 | |
| Kind of like I'm imagining like those slider things right? Of like. | 2024-06-25 19:05:25 | |
| Here's the before. Here's what you would get. | 2024-06-25 19:05:28 | |
| And here's the after. Very similar to this, right? | 2024-06-25 19:05:31 | |
| Here's here's the squares that you would get. | 2024-06-25 19:05:34 | |
| Here is now how that is altered. | 2024-06-25 19:05:37 | |
| But on E to D squares. | 2024-06-25 19:05:40 | |
| Each of those then have at each square within a square that is. | 2024-06-25 19:05:43 | |
| Is your building area and it's usually. | 2024-06-25 19:05:46 | |
| How they typically? | 2024-06-25 19:05:49 | |
| Percentage wise, that's like a building area take up. | 2024-06-25 19:05:52 | |
| 30. | 2024-06-25 19:05:55 | |
| 80%, Thirty, 35%. | 2024-06-25 19:05:58 | |
| I'm. | 2024-06-25 19:05:58 | |
| How would? | 2024-06-25 19:06:01 | |
| On the right, come from the community on the left. | 2024-06-25 19:06:04 | |
| With the developer be proposing. | 2024-06-25 19:06:07 | |
| Multifamily units is the community on. | 2024-06-25 19:06:10 | |
| The lab single homes community on the. | 2024-06-25 19:06:13 | |
| Right is townhouses and condoms. | 2024-06-25 19:06:16 | |
| Kind of hard to tell on the north side of that big green. | 2024-06-25 19:06:19 | |
| You know, like it looks like their townhomes. | 2024-06-25 19:06:22 | |
| On the South side it looks like there's some smaller detached single family. | 2024-06-25 19:06:25 | |
| And it's first on a private road. | 2024-06-25 19:06:28 | |
| Most of them look like there to be an attached situation. | 2024-06-25 19:06:31 | |
| Are there? Are there the same number of? | 2024-06-25 19:06:34 | |
| Dwelling units exactly the same. | 2024-06-25 19:06:37 | |
| And I don't. | 2024-06-25 19:06:40 | |
| It's a similar concept that development out of Dave. | 2024-06-25 19:06:43 | |
| They they took some of. | 2024-06-25 19:06:46 | |
| What would be single family units and group? | 2024-06-25 19:06:49 | |
| Them into multifamily units. | 2024-06-25 19:06:52 | |
| Some of those only have two homes or three homes, some of them. | 2024-06-25 19:06:55 | |
| Look like a single, just large single family. | 2024-06-25 19:06:58 | |
| Home, but they might have four or five. | 2024-06-25 19:07:01 | |
| Units within it, so there's a. | 2024-06-25 19:07:04 | |
| I don't think our code allows for that. You'd have. | 2024-06-25 19:07:07 | |
| Have detached single family structures in a single. | 2024-06-25 19:07:10 | |
| Family zone? No, you can attach them. | 2024-06-25 19:07:13 | |
| You can attach. Yeah, the unit's number doesn't change the product. | 2024-06-25 19:07:16 | |
| As long as they are OK with the. | 2024-06-25 19:07:19 | |
| Like a thought. | 2024-06-25 19:07:22 | |
| That comes to my mind and like comparing these would be down at holiday. | 2024-06-25 19:07:25 | |
| Right. Like if you think about for those of you that. | 2024-06-25 19:07:28 | |
| Remember the Ivory Corporation plan of like that north? | 2024-06-25 19:07:31 | |
| Enter that South end was going to be like a gated. | 2024-06-25 19:07:34 | |
| Luxury home kind of area, right that it was gonna have. | 2024-06-25 19:07:37 | |
| Have like whatever it was 400 or 300. | 2024-06-25 19:07:40 | |
| Units or something, and now instead it's going to have a bunch of. | 2024-06-25 19:07:43 | |
| To these four story townhomes that they put. | 2024-06-25 19:07:46 | |
| Put in there and the trade off for that, Is there gonna be more? | 2024-06-25 19:07:49 | |
| Space, right? Really. | 2024-06-25 19:07:52 | |
| Or do they just use it as commercial space? | 2024-06-25 19:07:55 | |
| No, there's more space I believe in there comparing the two different. | 2024-06-25 19:07:58 | |
| Development patterns. Each individual lot would have. | 2024-06-25 19:08:01 | |
| Privately owned so they could do whatever they would. | 2024-06-25 19:08:04 | |
| With their own backyard, with the town homes that you would. | 2024-06-25 19:08:07 | |
| That's quite a bit more open in between. | 2024-06-25 19:08:10 | |
| Buildings that it would have been for all those. | 2024-06-25 19:08:13 | |
| Detached single family home, The larger homes. | 2024-06-25 19:08:16 | |
| They probably would have been a little shorter. | 2024-06-25 19:08:19 | |
| Maybe, but not by. | 2024-06-25 19:08:22 | |
| A lot, right? They probably be the giant pyramid roof that I've got. | 2024-06-25 19:08:25 | |
| In my backyard kind of thing is that they get closer to the property. | 2024-06-25 19:08:28 | |
| So. | 2024-06-25 19:08:31 | |
| Going off of the attached kind of. | 2024-06-25 19:08:34 | |
| Development using Dennis's neighbors as an. | 2024-06-25 19:08:37 | |
| Example if they've had. | 2024-06-25 19:08:40 | |
| Houses together and created like two or three structures that then. | 2024-06-25 19:08:43 | |
| Had three or four units in each one. | 2024-06-25 19:08:46 | |
| Then that's the way that you're living. | 2024-06-25 19:08:49 | |
| How much structure you have but still have your your density? | 2024-06-25 19:08:52 | |
| It'd probably be nicer to look out. | 2024-06-25 19:08:55 | |
| My back window and see one big unit with some sky. | 2024-06-25 19:08:58 | |
| In some space and yard than just three of them. | 2024-06-25 19:09:01 | |
| With, you know, 5 feet in between. | 2024-06-25 19:09:04 | |
| Good discussion. Does that help? | 2024-06-25 19:09:10 | |
| Is this a real place? | 2024-06-25 19:09:13 | |
| It was used in this example in. | 2024-06-25 19:09:16 | |
| That place that's in Colorado. | 2024-06-25 19:09:19 | |
| The other one you don't. You don't have. | 2024-06-25 19:09:22 | |
| I do need to go back to it and it looks like. | 2024-06-25 19:09:25 | |
| Look in the. | 2024-06-25 19:09:28 | |
| It's part of a white paper sliding down. | 2024-06-25 19:09:31 | |
| 1961. | 2024-06-25 19:09:37 | |
| I look, maybe a planet. | 2024-06-25 19:09:40 | |
| New York, which makes sense. | 2024-06-25 19:09:43 | |
| At 19. | 2024-06-25 19:09:46 | |
| 63 OK, cool. | 2024-06-25 19:09:49 | |
| I can't back when we didn't need to cram housing in. | 2024-06-25 19:09:52 | |
| Every detailed corner of the world. | 2024-06-25 19:09:56 | |
| I mean, it's really interesting. | 2024-06-25 19:09:59 | |
| Designed to have, especially since they. | 2024-06-25 19:10:02 | |
| Of economic change, they have to change. | 2024-06-25 19:10:04 | |
| One of the commitments they made earlier. | 2024-06-25 19:10:07 | |
| City with no apartment and that fell apart. | 2024-06-25 19:10:11 | |
| During the recession and then they came back to city. | 2024-06-25 19:10:13 | |
| And there. | 2024-06-25 19:10:17 | |
| And then there's a lot of people out there. | 2024-06-25 19:10:20 | |
| Wow, look at all this open today. | 2024-06-25 19:10:23 | |
| Why haven't you even? | 2024-06-25 19:10:25 | |
| People by the lake have found out that their whole house. | 2024-06-25 19:10:32 | |
| Between them and the lake, they thought they were the front property. | 2024-06-25 19:10:35 | |
| And they left that until the lake was the. | 2024-06-25 19:10:38 | |
| And everything else. And then they put there. | 2024-06-25 19:10:41 | |
| Be the Mega Man from On the Island. | 2024-06-25 19:10:44 | |
| And the bridge get there and now. | 2024-06-25 19:10:47 | |
| Doing the infill right down the lake. | 2024-06-25 19:10:50 | |
| Well, I thought I was the one. | 2024-06-25 19:10:53 | |
| Look at the plan. | 2024-06-25 19:10:56 | |
| But it is it's, it's not what they're doing out there and. | 2024-06-25 19:10:59 | |
| You know, a lot of people like the mode and everything else. | 2024-06-25 19:11:02 | |
| I've always thought that. | 2024-06-25 19:11:05 | |
| Interesting that they were way behind. | 2024-06-25 19:11:08 | |
| Schedule now and part of the. | 2024-06-25 19:11:11 | |
| And there. | 2024-06-25 19:11:17 | |
| But as they build out, they're now at the point where. | 2024-06-25 19:11:20 | |
| It was. | 2024-06-25 19:11:23 | |
| Before they finish it. | 2024-06-25 19:11:25 | |
| Hmm, OK. | 2024-06-25 19:11:26 | |
| You know, and it's all going to age. | 2024-06-25 19:11:29 | |
| 2000 homes. | 2024-06-25 19:11:32 | |
| A big cover. | 2024-06-25 19:11:35 | |
| Is it worth it? I've been around there. | 2024-06-25 19:11:41 | |
| Let's see what they're doing. | 2024-06-25 19:11:44 | |
| And then there's downtown footprint. | 2024-06-25 19:11:47 | |
| Figuring in downtown hallway. | 2024-06-25 19:11:50 | |
| No idea they're going to be 30 story buildings there. | 2024-06-25 19:11:53 | |
| They have the density. They're allowed their density. | 2024-06-25 19:11:56 | |
| Ended up there, people were asleep with the way. | 2024-06-25 19:12:02 | |
| Still, you know, all I said was like, no show. | 2024-06-25 19:12:05 | |
| And. | 2024-06-25 19:12:08 | |
| Plan for a long, long time and then. | 2024-06-25 19:12:11 | |
| They have high density, way high. | 2024-06-25 19:12:14 | |
| That's beautiful. | 2024-06-25 19:12:17 | |
| They can sell the product. | 2024-06-25 19:12:20 | |
| 45 minutes away. I'd probably go there more. | 2024-06-25 19:12:23 | |
| The Valley. | 2024-06-25 19:12:26 | |
| Everything they need is out there, right? | 2024-06-25 19:12:29 | |
| And look at their job if you do. | 2024-06-25 19:12:32 | |
| If you want to watch an interesting. | 2024-06-25 19:12:35 | |
| Salt Lake County Regional development. | 2024-06-25 19:12:38 | |
| You walk through tour with. | 2024-06-25 19:12:41 | |
| Who does optical? | 2024-06-25 19:12:44 | |
| The missing middle is that. | 2024-06-25 19:12:47 | |
| Utah. So it's envision Utah. | 2024-06-25 19:12:50 | |
| So like regional development and then the author of the. | 2024-06-25 19:12:53 | |
| The missing middle. | 2024-06-25 19:12:56 | |
| Heroic, but on Salt Lake County regional development. | 2024-06-25 19:12:59 | |
| YouTube page they have like a tour. | 2024-06-25 19:13:02 | |
| With with having a huge. | 2024-06-25 19:13:05 | |
| Designs kind of a portion of Daybreak, but walking. | 2024-06-25 19:13:08 | |
| Through and hearing him talk about some of the different housing style. | 2024-06-25 19:13:11 | |
| Health and designs there and they specifically highlight. | 2024-06-25 19:13:14 | |
| Some of the larger houses that have 3 units in it. | 2024-06-25 19:13:17 | |
| That looks just like a single family large house. | 2024-06-25 19:13:20 | |
| But yeah, it's interesting to see that. | 2024-06-25 19:13:23 | |
| So you don't have to go out to Daybreak, you can still. | 2024-06-25 19:13:26 | |
| Emailing a link to that, yes. | 2024-06-25 19:13:32 | |
| Yes, I'm not gonna remember that. | 2024-06-25 19:13:35 | |
| It was really interesting. | 2024-06-25 19:13:38 | |
| Of. | 2024-06-25 19:13:41 | |
| That was my former job. Like the article John Center. | 2024-06-25 19:13:44 | |
| And on the on the note of. | 2024-06-25 19:13:47 | |
| Applicants and kind of ease of direction. | 2024-06-25 19:13:50 | |
| To as I was thinking about this. | 2024-06-25 19:13:53 | |
| Format in a presentation format that makes me. | 2024-06-25 19:13:56 | |
| It's so much easier to see, like what things do you need to include in? | 2024-06-25 19:13:59 | |
| In your in your application I think this will be. | 2024-06-25 19:14:02 | |
| Guidance for applicants as well to walk there and say. | 2024-06-25 19:14:05 | |
| So here's this numbered list, one through 3. | 2024-06-25 19:14:08 | |
| I'm gonna make sure I'm doing those things instead of. | 2024-06-25 19:14:12 | |
| Sending them a copy of the code and things. | 2024-06-25 19:14:14 | |
| Sort out some stuff here. | 2024-06-25 19:14:17 | |
| Figure out what so should and shall right. | 2024-06-25 19:14:20 | |
| Yeah. So I think some good guidance for. | 2024-06-25 19:14:23 | |
| Moving forward is that we have this kind of. | 2024-06-25 19:14:26 | |
| Presentation format that is a little bit easier to. | 2024-06-25 19:14:29 | |
| Understand when you're approaching it from. | 2024-06-25 19:14:33 | |
| A lot of infill small land owners that. | 2024-06-25 19:14:35 | |
| That have two or three lots that they're subdividing. | 2024-06-25 19:14:38 | |
| Cool. | 2024-06-25 19:14:41 | |
| All right. How are we doing? You want to move on? | 2024-06-25 19:14:45 | |
| On to the next one. Or do you want to save it for another time? Well, I don't know, can we? | 2024-06-25 19:14:48 | |
| Can we say we did enough training to get our hour? | 2024-06-25 19:14:50 | |
| Twitter I think we can round up to an hour now. | 2024-06-25 19:14:53 | |
| You have to go through this though 'cause I actually do want to talk about. | 2024-06-25 19:14:57 | |
| Sure. | 2024-06-25 19:15:00 | |
| It's up to you, depends on how fast you want to go. | 2024-06-25 19:15:03 | |
| I mean, I I gotta go home or I gotta get dinner. | 2024-06-25 19:15:06 | |
| But I don't care like I can. I can wait. I've got enough bluff. | 2024-06-25 19:15:09 | |
| Gift store. | 2024-06-25 19:15:12 | |
| Well, how? How fast do you think you? | 2024-06-25 19:15:15 | |
| Get through this in a reasonable presentation, but. | 2024-06-25 19:15:18 | |
| 10 minutes, do it, OK. | 2024-06-25 19:15:21 | |
| We are. We basically know the history of. | 2024-06-25 19:15:24 | |
| Develop a master plan for Cottonwood Mall. | 2024-06-25 19:15:27 | |
| So I'm not going to get into that. We know about the rest. | 2024-06-25 19:15:30 | |
| Referendum. We know that the version that you are enforcing now. | 2024-06-25 19:15:33 | |
| Is the original version in 2007. | 2024-06-25 19:15:36 | |
| That's without question the document. | 2024-06-25 19:15:39 | |
| That the Royal Holiday Hills is building too. | 2024-06-25 19:15:42 | |
| So the site development mastermind. | 2024-06-25 19:15:45 | |
| Site Site development master plan is sort of. | 2024-06-25 19:15:48 | |
| Like a flexible or a. | 2024-06-25 19:15:51 | |
| Living zoning code. | 2024-06-25 19:15:54 | |
| In the sense that it's very similar to what, Commissioner? | 2024-06-25 19:15:57 | |
| Cunningham was mentioning about Daybreak. Is it at? | 2024-06-25 19:16:00 | |
| It responds responds to market press. | 2024-06-25 19:16:03 | |
| And it's flexible to market pressure. | 2024-06-25 19:16:06 | |
| So it doesn't necessarily need to place. | 2024-06-25 19:16:09 | |
| All. | 2024-06-25 19:16:12 | |
| Uses in specific blocks on the site. | 2024-06-25 19:16:15 | |
| It. | 2024-06-25 19:16:18 | |
| It breaks up the property in zones. | 2024-06-25 19:16:21 | |
| Allow a multitude of uses. | 2024-06-25 19:16:24 | |
| However, there is a development agreement. | 2024-06-25 19:16:27 | |
| The council entered into with. | 2024-06-25 19:16:30 | |
| And it's right on the cover page. | 2024-06-25 19:16:33 | |
| Maximum, minimum and maximum number. | 2024-06-25 19:16:36 | |
| Of going in it minimum. | 2024-06-25 19:16:39 | |
| Maximum number of commercial retail space. | 2024-06-25 19:16:42 | |
| Those two numbers are extremely important because. | 2024-06-25 19:16:45 | |
| Originally when Holiday incorporated in 2000. | 2024-06-25 19:16:48 | |
| The Cottonwood Mall was. | 2024-06-25 19:16:51 | |
| Driver in the allowing factor to let holiday. | 2024-06-25 19:16:54 | |
| That's the way the county allowed to become the city. | 2024-06-25 19:16:57 | |
| So we had to maintain at least that much. | 2024-06-25 19:17:00 | |
| Square footage and retail. | 2024-06-25 19:17:03 | |
| A viable commercial tax dollar base. | 2024-06-25 19:17:06 | |
| Since that's come along, the village has been extremely. | 2024-06-25 19:17:09 | |
| Successful, not overarching. | 2024-06-25 19:17:12 | |
| The income that we've been able to receive from. | 2024-06-25 19:17:15 | |
| But since the collar malls declined, we've been. | 2024-06-25 19:17:18 | |
| On a shoestring budget and mostly hanging the most. | 2024-06-25 19:17:21 | |
| Buy our hat on Holiday village which? | 2024-06-25 19:17:24 | |
| A redevelopment agency. | 2024-06-25 19:17:27 | |
| Rdas and they totally. | 2024-06-25 19:17:30 | |
| Time which is actually. | 2024-06-25 19:17:33 | |
| Very, very important factor for our county because. | 2024-06-25 19:17:36 | |
| We have one of the handful. | 2024-06-25 19:17:39 | |
| Of Rdas that are extremely successful in creating. | 2024-06-25 19:17:42 | |
| Culture, community, identity. | 2024-06-25 19:17:48 | |
| Viable commercial area and. | 2024-06-25 19:17:51 | |
| That has improved and increased property value around it. | 2024-06-25 19:17:54 | |
| With transit, which doesn't get. | 2024-06-25 19:17:57 | |
| Excuse that much. I wish we. | 2024-06-25 19:18:00 | |
| You would get used or have a ridership which is a little bit higher through our. | 2024-06-25 19:18:03 | |
| Village than what it is now, but. | 2024-06-25 19:18:06 | |
| We're working with UTA on that. | 2024-06-25 19:18:09 | |
| Anyway, what's their goal? | 2024-06-25 19:18:12 | |
| Ride the bus. | 2024-06-25 19:18:15 | |
| Do we have a goal for ridership? | 2024-06-25 19:18:18 | |
| Not necessarily ridership I'm. | 2024-06-25 19:18:21 | |
| I'm interested in increasing. | 2024-06-25 19:18:24 | |
| What's the? | 2024-06-25 19:18:27 | |
| Stop in itself though, sorry. Connectivity overall. | 2024-06-25 19:18:33 | |
| Now, because it's. | 2024-06-25 19:18:36 | |
| Our timeline accessibility needs to be. | 2024-06-25 19:18:39 | |
| 20 yeah, frequency, sorry, it's on the half hour so. | 2024-06-25 19:18:42 | |
| Yeah, it needs to be more like in a 15 to 20 minutes. | 2024-06-25 19:18:45 | |
| You know, to be useful. | 2024-06-25 19:18:48 | |
| Anyway. | 2024-06-25 19:18:51 | |
| So. | 2024-06-25 19:18:51 | |
| Any development that comes to the city. | 2024-06-25 19:18:54 | |
| That needs to comply with the SDMP has to go. | 2024-06-25 19:18:57 | |
| Go through the Planning Commission. It doesn't. It's not something that. | 2024-06-25 19:19:00 | |
| It can be approved by staff. | 2024-06-25 19:19:03 | |
| Any amendments to the SDMP is an exact. | 2024-06-25 19:19:06 | |
| Process of what would be through a. | 2024-06-25 19:19:09 | |
| Or a text number for the applicant to. | 2024-06-25 19:19:12 | |
| Planning Commission with amendment you would make recommendation. | 2024-06-25 19:19:15 | |
| City Council makes that change. | 2024-06-25 19:19:18 | |
| Being is because the SDMP and the ADL. | 2024-06-25 19:19:21 | |
| Development agreement and the tip. | 2024-06-25 19:19:24 | |
| Recommended funding element are so integral trying. | 2024-06-25 19:19:27 | |
| Twined. | 2024-06-25 19:19:30 | |
| Amended altogether. | 2024-06-25 19:19:33 | |
| So essentially. | 2024-06-25 19:19:36 | |
| I think what the take away is for tonight is. | 2024-06-25 19:19:39 | |
| There are zones. | 2024-06-25 19:19:42 | |
| Their arguments within the SDMP. | 2024-06-25 19:19:45 | |
| There are open space requirements. | 2024-06-25 19:19:48 | |
| And each one of those site plans as they. | 2024-06-25 19:19:51 | |
| Through his being reviewed by. | 2024-06-25 19:19:54 | |
| This document of itself, even down to our. | 2024-06-25 19:19:57 | |
| So when you see the staff report. | 2024-06-25 19:20:00 | |
| Come across that's a compliance with architecture. | 2024-06-25 19:20:03 | |
| We're going through and finding. | 2024-06-25 19:20:06 | |
| Of the palette that's been proposed, what? | 2024-06-25 19:20:09 | |
| Is being sort of mimicked by the. | 2024-06-25 19:20:12 | |
| By the proposal and. | 2024-06-25 19:20:15 | |
| Responsibility to take a look at the the. | 2024-06-25 19:20:18 | |
| The palette itself and then match whatever. | 2024-06-25 19:20:21 | |
| The proposal is being brought by the property. | 2024-06-25 19:20:24 | |
| Uh. | 2024-06-25 19:20:27 | |
| Sorry, no, go ahead. | 2024-06-25 19:20:30 | |
| Flexible in response to market pressure. | 2024-06-25 19:20:33 | |
| Meaning the developers. | 2024-06-25 19:20:36 | |
| Adjust things if they're like, oh, now all of a sudden people don't. | 2024-06-25 19:20:39 | |
| Fancy townhomes? Yeah, OK. | 2024-06-25 19:20:42 | |
| How much? | 2024-06-25 19:20:45 | |
| When when the bank came through. | 2024-06-25 19:20:48 | |
| Month and a half ago or something. | 2024-06-25 19:20:51 | |
| It felt like we didn't have a lot of. | 2024-06-25 19:20:54 | |
| Wiggle room with that like it just felt like OK, well we. | 2024-06-25 19:20:57 | |
| Check the box and so my question. | 2024-06-25 19:21:00 | |
| Where? Where do we still have discretionary? | 2024-06-25 19:21:03 | |
| Situation because the youth in of itself was. | 2024-06-25 19:21:09 | |
| Even allowed use in that zone of. | 2024-06-25 19:21:12 | |
| And that's specifically the use of their. | 2024-06-25 19:21:15 | |
| Proposing for that portion of the block, there's not much. | 2024-06-25 19:21:18 | |
| Question on deciding whether or not any. | 2024-06-25 19:21:21 | |
| Be part of a mixed-use building. | 2024-06-25 19:21:24 | |
| Needs to be relocated in some way. | 2024-06-25 19:21:27 | |
| On the site. | 2024-06-25 19:21:30 | |
| I think I understand where you were. | 2024-06-25 19:21:33 | |
| Definitely coming from a prominent corner. | 2024-06-25 19:21:36 | |
| On Highland Drive, I mean deciding it within that bed. | 2024-06-25 19:21:39 | |
| Massive mixed-use development. I mean, you'd be. | 2024-06-25 19:21:42 | |
| Singular views is. | 2024-06-25 19:21:45 | |
| Better place. | 2024-06-25 19:21:48 | |
| But I think when you there's still another. | 2024-06-25 19:21:51 | |
| 2 1/2 acres between that bank and the. | 2024-06-25 19:21:54 | |
| Big office building repairs. You'll see how it's. | 2024-06-25 19:21:57 | |
| It plays off of each other. | 2024-06-25 19:22:00 | |
| Bigger building comes in, I guess so. | 2024-06-25 19:22:03 | |
| Follow up question, which is if they're sort of coming through? | 2024-06-25 19:22:07 | |
| Piece meal to get approved. It's hard. | 2024-06-25 19:22:09 | |
| At least for me, Especially because I guess. | 2024-06-25 19:22:12 | |
| It's hard to see how things fit together and I'm worried. | 2024-06-25 19:22:15 | |
| Things will fall through the crack and then in five years we'll be. | 2024-06-25 19:22:19 | |
| If we persist when we prove this and my wish. | 2024-06-25 19:22:21 | |
| Yeah, because they came through. | 2024-06-25 19:22:25 | |
| Time. So for example, the bank had. | 2024-06-25 19:22:27 | |
| I mean it wasn't that much, but it was 6 or 7X. | 2024-06-25 19:22:31 | |
| Parking spot OK, but if. | 2024-06-25 19:22:34 | |
| Everything we approve has six or seven extra parking. | 2024-06-25 19:22:37 | |
| Lot of extra parking which decreases. | 2024-06-25 19:22:39 | |
| Makes it driving heavy like I think we'll end up where we're. | 2024-06-25 19:22:43 | |