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We're good. All right. Well, good afternoon. Welcome to the Holiday Planning Commission, September 3rd, 2024 work meeting. Work 00:00:00
session, I should say. We have two items today and in attendance. We have all commissioners except Commissioner Vilcinski and both 00:00:07
city staff and legal counsel are present and currently no members of the public are here. That being said, we have the Royal 00:00:14
Holiday Hills Block G concept plan. 00:00:22
And then the Royal holiday Hills Block C. 00:00:30
Preliminary and final plat. 00:00:33
So who gets to start us off with item 1 today? 00:00:36
I get to take both of for you. 00:00:41
Really wanted to have justice here Justice wrote these reports for you but has come down I'll over the weekend Justice that 00:00:44
usually sits in the back corner yeah OK yeah making sure I'm thinking of great just as two first our new planner and he's doing an 00:00:50
excellent job wrote these reports for and did some analysis but unfortunately he's under the weather so. 00:00:57
I'll walk you through these two items tonight. 00:01:05
To Royal Holiday Hills applications either end of the property Block G is the first time you've seen Block G First time we've seen 00:01:09
this before. I was under the assumption when we had this concept. 00:01:15
Master plan down that this was going to be a large multi family building. 00:01:23
They are now selling it to Tri Point Homes. It was a national home builder coming into the new to the Utah market as far as I'm 00:01:29
aware. 00:01:32
And building some townhomes. 00:01:37
On this property 66. 00:01:39
So tonight what we're looking for is asking the question, does this comply with the site development master plan? 00:01:41
For the Royal Holiday hills meaning, use. 00:01:49
Density architecture, Parking. 00:01:53
Most of those elements Justice has gone through and given you some analysis from the staff's point of view. 00:01:58
Looking at the elevations, there's a few things that might be missing from those elevations. 00:02:04
And I'd be happy to walk through those when we get. 00:02:11
In the public hearing. 00:02:15
But justice, I believe, is put together a page that shows the primarily elevation of the building. 00:02:17
With the pallet, the vernacular palette, the architectural style palette, it's up to the applicant to provide to the Planning 00:02:23
Commission. 00:02:28
Showing him compliance with what styles he's pulling from so. 00:02:32
That would be a focus of part of the discussion. Use. Obviously the this block is within the open land use district which allows 00:02:37
for residential uses. Both attached. 00:02:43
In multifamily development. 00:02:50
Each townhome looks like his garage parked, which meets the minimum 2 parking stalls. 00:02:52
For each one of the units, sort of situated around a linear courtyard. 00:02:58
I saw somewhere in the description that they were talking about one parking space per unit. 00:03:04
In the application packet. 00:03:14
Did somebody else? Yes, but they also have a garage. Is this the page 15? 00:03:18
It was in, it was in a narrative that I read and I don't know 'cause I won per unit seems. 00:03:25
Unfortunate. 00:03:33
Say it again. Yeah, that's the SMTP that's. 00:03:36
Or the SMDP, which tells what they have to do. But it was in the narrative for this try point that caught my attention and I was a 00:03:41
little nervous about that. I saw that too, and then I thought that was mitigated by the garage parking. I don't know. Looks like 00:03:47
according to the individual units there are two car garages. 00:03:53
So that's what I couldn't figure out what they were talking about. Sure. What they're talking about. 00:04:01
OK. I'm not crazy though. No, all right. The elevations you have that's been provided to staff show 2 car garages. 00:04:05
We can you can definitely clarify that with the applicant when he comes. 00:04:13
Sure. 00:04:17
One quick note why we're on this screen looking at this shot right now is they have this concept site plan with all these trees, 00:04:18
which you know I love seeing all the trees on a plan I. 00:04:24
But I had no idea how they were actually going to fit them on the backside of the homes because it looks like it's all hardscape 00:04:31
except for like a 2 foot by three foot patch between the garages. And I'm just wondering is that a is that a really tall Bush they 00:04:37
anticipate putting in there? Or did I just misread the dimensions when I was looking at it on the? 00:04:43
It's definitely tight layout, definitely tight in there. 00:04:51
They're taking some liberty, aren't they? 00:04:56
Column Nur. 00:05:00
Polymer sticks with some glued on needles or something. 00:05:03
Some people call them. 00:05:09
Right, all ones. 00:05:12
On side trees. 00:05:15
So Justice was putting this elevation, these elevations together from a few different iterations, what they're calling their 00:05:19
final. But it looks to me talking to commissioner, that there might be missing an elevation. You'll notice that these look like 00:05:25
the primary. 00:05:32
Buildings that are on the ends. 00:05:39
But if you look at the site plan. 00:05:41
Care if you want to zoom into the middle of the block. 00:05:45
You can see that some of the units are split into two. I don't see that those elevations were included. They were on previous 00:05:48
iterations, which they look nice, but not on this set and. 00:05:53
Just bring that to your attention. Yeah, we did have floor plans for those though, because the floor plans are in there. Floor 00:06:00
plans. 00:06:04
Yeah. 00:06:07
But as long as they're carrying that style around the corner. 00:06:10
Umm, I would be OK with it, but that's not in there. It's not in the design. 00:06:16
So it's I mean. 00:06:22
In the original, is it any concern that this seems like it's deviating from the what is otherwise flat roof architecture and all 00:06:24
the other stuff that we've seen to where now suddenly we have these pitched roofs? 00:06:30
Pitches are definitely in those style palette. 00:06:37
OK. 00:06:40
I'd like to see if they can't break up the. 00:06:43
Rough too to make it look not so large of a building, but maybe more like individual units. 00:06:47
It looks like those old wooden forts. 00:06:54
Right. And it looks really boring. That's that's kind of a bad detail, isn't it? Yeah, it just kind of looks like a big blah. 00:06:57
I mean even with some color difference between the units and stuff like that would. 00:07:07
Maybe a little bit on the roof. 00:07:13
I think they're trying with the face of the building, but I think the roof needs to follow suit with that. 00:07:17
As far as what we're reviewing in the concept today, are we taking any of that into consideration? 00:07:24
That all like, you know, you come back with something that doesn't look like it was, you know, the 1840s Ford or what? 00:07:30
Uses and materials are just as important as architecture, OK? 00:07:37
And the landscaping. 00:07:43
That's compliant with the. That should be showing compliance with the zone or the SDMP. 00:07:45
Yes, I couldn't find when I was looking that the end elevations, I don't know which are facing the street, but some of them don't 00:07:50
have any detail whatsoever. 00:07:55
And I'm just wondering if they're facing a street if they couldn't copy some of the front architecture and wrap it around. 00:08:00
Yeah, that stood out to me right away when I looked at the concept is here's this giant flat wall with like two or three security 00:08:07
windows on it. And that does look very present, doesn't it? 00:08:12
So ugly. 00:08:18
You're talking about yes, Yeah. 00:08:20
Nope, 4580. 00:08:25
So I mean, I like that they've got the different material use on there. 00:08:28
You know, so it's not. 00:08:34
So whatever the Mono term is that applies to architecture on the one that's on the screen now is kind of what I'm talking about. 00:08:35
So. 00:08:40
Which one? The one that's on the screen now, The top left. Yeah, yeah. 00:08:46
Here's your giant wall. And I assume those when I first looked at, I guess those are the walls that are like going to face each 00:08:53
other on the inside. And if that's the case, then I'm not as worried about that. But then I guess this other one would be the 00:08:58
outer wall facing the road, right? 00:09:02
But everybody's going to know when everybody's going to the bathroom, right? 00:09:10
Well, the lights will be on. 00:09:18
The window on the bottom is. 00:09:23
Looks like a window into the garage. 00:09:26
In both cases, stairwell or something, yeah. 00:09:29
Because I would assume the garage is this like blank side over here. 00:09:33
That's the garage and then that's the. 00:09:39
Stairs up above it or whatever to the front door. 00:09:43
So as far as the change from apartments to the townhomes, as long as they don't exceed the density, they're OK with going down in. 00:09:47
Density, is that right? Yeah, Density is spread out over the tire block. So I think they're about halfway to their maximum with 00:09:56
with this concept. Do you have any concerns going down in density or if you want the staff have a desire to keep it as high as 00:10:02
possible to kind of meet what was the overall? 00:10:08
I think. 00:10:16
Not necessarily going down in density in this as you start to feather out into the neighborhood is good urban design. Keeping the 00:10:18
dense multi family units where like your 200 unit buildings should be. That's where you want to put all those eggs. 00:10:25
I'm sorry, can they transfer the units that they don't build here somewhere else on the project? 00:10:38
And they could go 90 feet, but they're only going 42 here. 00:10:47
So does that mean they are? 00:10:51
Likely to go up to 90 feet somewhere else. 00:10:54
They, I mean, they were really going to anyway. Yeah. And I would ask him that directly. He's pretty comfortable sharing who, what 00:10:58
buildings, what blocks will have the tallest buildings on it. 00:11:04
And right now, the block that's just been finished and the block next to it to the South. 00:11:11
Which I believe is black. 00:11:19
Or E yes will be the two tallest buildings at the at the 90 feet. The rest of them he doesn't want to have that tall. 00:11:22
I'm having. 00:11:32
How does? How does this little? 00:11:35
How does this picture? 00:11:39
Line up to this picture like I'm a little disoriented because I thought it was here, but it doesn't look like it's actually. 00:11:41
Yeah, so this is in between the. 00:11:49
Private lane, private homes and the new ones they've already built. 00:11:54
And then the big giant building that's going to be out in front, right? Like down in that, like just a little square in the middle 00:12:00
of all that I see. OK. 00:12:03
Yeah, this is what we're talking. Yeah, because he had a mixed commercial. I mean in this in, in some of the things it was 00:12:09
proposing mixed commercial, residential and this is all residential. 00:12:15
In front. 00:12:27
So when you look at the STMP for, for the range of uses that they're on Arbor Arbor and then they kind of wrap up the idea of 00:12:29
making sure that the original developer was also the designer. So in 2007 they had a plan in place for something that like that. 00:12:38
The users would be there, everything would be there. However, the overall theme of the master plan is to. 00:12:48
Address the development of the site to match market pressures. 00:12:55
So this is how he's addressing his need for housing in this market now rather than a 2007 version. Because demand for commercials 00:12:59
got down, right? 00:13:05
Residential is gone. 00:13:11
Doesn't mean that the commercial will be there. He still has to meet a minimum square footage of. 00:13:15
Commercial, he's nowhere near that. 00:13:19
So there still will be an intense commercial aspect to this site that we just now are not seeing yet. 00:13:22
Yeah. That's at the North End, right? Yeah, North and up the middle of the access, Yeah. 00:13:29
Yeah, the center of it. 00:13:35
Could you pull up that map on the open space? 00:13:40
On the whole complex. 00:13:44
I saw them there somewhere. 00:13:51
Oh, you passed it. 00:14:01
Yeah, the green. 00:14:03
So this. 00:14:12
Block has essentially none other than that little square on the original plan, then. 00:14:13
That original plan was parking. 00:14:19
There's a parking garage. 00:14:22
Where the little green square is, it says open space. My reading is right. 00:14:26
There, right? 00:14:31
I think it's this whole. 00:14:32
Yeah, isn't it that whole block? It's not just the yellow and the Gray. 00:14:36
I mean, just having walked around there, the open space, a lot of the open space. 00:14:47
Isn't open to anybody. 00:14:53
And that I mean there's a stream and the side of the stream and. 00:14:56
More stream and. 00:15:01
It's definitely open. Well, it's open in the sense that. 00:15:02
Has grass and water and all that, but there's. 00:15:07
You know, there's no play areas, There's no, that wasn't the intent of what open space was. So it's very different than the ones 00:15:10
I'm using. 00:15:14
No, it wasn't to be programmed like like a park would be. 00:15:19
Open just being that there's. 00:15:25
Basically not a structure or urban design there that it's just it has an open area. 00:15:27
What we're looking at absence of development. 00:15:34
What we're looking at for block G there doesn't seem to correspond with what we're looking at here. 00:15:38
That's true. 00:15:45
Because they're showing parking in the middle. And this is just really. 00:15:47
Dense with. 00:15:51
Housing, well the parking's in the garage is on this version as opposed to on that original plan. Wasn't it more apartment? 00:15:53
Yeah, oriented less garages were going to be a gateway style develop. 00:16:02
With that plan that you're showing has all the different colors within the blocks, that's a use plan. 00:16:08
So any of those uses were allowed on those levels on that blog? 00:16:14
In this proposal, one use is proposed rather than the mixture. 00:16:19
So my question about that is if. 00:16:26
If the builder can shift to respond to market. 00:16:30
OK. But if there's also, I mean reasonable, that seems like a reasonable thing. But but if there's a minimum commercial and it's 00:16:34
all just getting pushed elsewhere, that feels like it's going to change the nature of the entire development. Should we, I mean, 00:16:40
is it, is it important that we sort of push back and say we do want some kind of light commercial on the 1st floor of at least one 00:16:46
of these blocks? We know that it has to be somewhere. 00:16:52
Or is that not a? I just. I just feel like you don't have the when you have a full menu of uses that are allowed in one space and 00:16:59
you're not seeing one of them to push, that would be difficult. 00:17:04
To seeing that element and say no, I'd really like to see. 00:17:11
Retail here. 00:17:14
You could we can ask you can ask for that and see what the response is from the applicant would be. 00:17:17
But as long as they're keeping within their menu of uses, they're allowed. He gets to pick where they all go. That's why it's so 00:17:22
important on the cover of the master plan to say that site wide. 00:17:27
Regardless of however you shift things around, we're expecting a minimum square footage of retail. 00:17:34
And a maximum residential unit count. 00:17:39
However, the sites laid out so they could, if they wanted to, just put it all to the north as long as it hit that square footage 00:17:44
of commercial right. 00:17:48
The biggest issue with that is he doesn't get to put anything anywhere. 00:17:56
For example, in the limited use strip up along memory lane, he doesn't get to put commercial up in there, right? Commercial 00:18:00
doesn't get to go into the restricted area. 00:18:04
But in the open area, that's what it's intended to be for. Is open and flexible. 00:18:09
All right. Good discussion points, more questions around. 00:18:20
Block G that we need to cover in the work meeting. 00:18:24
All right. I think we're ready to talk about Block C final plat preliminary and final. So Block C normally with the concept and or 00:18:28
the the site plan that was reviewed by the Planning Commission for the bank. 00:18:35
Normally we would have seen a subdivision plat accompany it. 00:18:43
There was a delay with the applicant. He is just now coming forward to the Planning Commission to subdivide off that piece for the 00:18:48
bank. 00:18:51
That's one of one of the reasons why the Planet Earth staff is recommending preliminary and final. He's presented a plat that 00:18:55
meets state requirements for that area, and I think Justice put both a site plan in there to show how that fit in that little 00:19:01
puzzle piece that they're parceling off. 00:19:07
So the answer tonight is. 00:19:14
Approval where the Planning Commission has approval for a preliminary and final subdivision plat. 00:19:18
For just that one piece. You'll probably see this again as the rest of the block develops. 00:19:24
This won't be the final iteration for block C. 00:19:30
But nothing has really changed from the last time we looked at it three months ago or whatever it was. 00:19:35
So it's just subdividing that block. Yeah, right now it's under one ownership. Now it'll be under. 00:19:41
Whoever is going to be buying that piece of ground, are they still bound even though it would be a different owner? Are they still 00:19:49
bound by all of the development restrictions even if the guidelines, Yeah, even if it went to Wells Fargo? 00:19:56
They're still bound to the cycle. 00:20:04
Because we had, I mean those. 00:20:07
The homes with the flat roofs. 00:20:09
They just did their own thing it seems like. 00:20:12
Sandale banned something. 00:20:16
Mandalay No, that's simple. 00:20:20
They those they don't seem to match with the SMBP as much as no, not from my point of view. We've talked about this before. 00:20:23
And it's important it is. So the architecture on that subdivision plat, there will be a note on there that says as per Planning 00:20:35
Commission approval file number. So if Kerry and I are gone for some reason and they come back for a building permit, they show on 00:20:41
there that there's there's approvals that are tied to this law. 00:20:48
All right. Any other questions around the block? 00:20:58
All right. With that, I think we can go ahead and closeout our work meeting. We'll take a quick 4 minute recess and then we'll get 00:21:04
started on top of the hour. 00:21:07
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We're good. All right. Well, good afternoon. Welcome to the Holiday Planning Commission, September 3rd, 2024 work meeting. Work 00:00:00
session, I should say. We have two items today and in attendance. We have all commissioners except Commissioner Vilcinski and both 00:00:07
city staff and legal counsel are present and currently no members of the public are here. That being said, we have the Royal 00:00:14
Holiday Hills Block G concept plan. 00:00:22
And then the Royal holiday Hills Block C. 00:00:30
Preliminary and final plat. 00:00:33
So who gets to start us off with item 1 today? 00:00:36
I get to take both of for you. 00:00:41
Really wanted to have justice here Justice wrote these reports for you but has come down I'll over the weekend Justice that 00:00:44
usually sits in the back corner yeah OK yeah making sure I'm thinking of great just as two first our new planner and he's doing an 00:00:50
excellent job wrote these reports for and did some analysis but unfortunately he's under the weather so. 00:00:57
I'll walk you through these two items tonight. 00:01:05
To Royal Holiday Hills applications either end of the property Block G is the first time you've seen Block G First time we've seen 00:01:09
this before. I was under the assumption when we had this concept. 00:01:15
Master plan down that this was going to be a large multi family building. 00:01:23
They are now selling it to Tri Point Homes. It was a national home builder coming into the new to the Utah market as far as I'm 00:01:29
aware. 00:01:32
And building some townhomes. 00:01:37
On this property 66. 00:01:39
So tonight what we're looking for is asking the question, does this comply with the site development master plan? 00:01:41
For the Royal Holiday hills meaning, use. 00:01:49
Density architecture, Parking. 00:01:53
Most of those elements Justice has gone through and given you some analysis from the staff's point of view. 00:01:58
Looking at the elevations, there's a few things that might be missing from those elevations. 00:02:04
And I'd be happy to walk through those when we get. 00:02:11
In the public hearing. 00:02:15
But justice, I believe, is put together a page that shows the primarily elevation of the building. 00:02:17
With the pallet, the vernacular palette, the architectural style palette, it's up to the applicant to provide to the Planning 00:02:23
Commission. 00:02:28
Showing him compliance with what styles he's pulling from so. 00:02:32
That would be a focus of part of the discussion. Use. Obviously the this block is within the open land use district which allows 00:02:37
for residential uses. Both attached. 00:02:43
In multifamily development. 00:02:50
Each townhome looks like his garage parked, which meets the minimum 2 parking stalls. 00:02:52
For each one of the units, sort of situated around a linear courtyard. 00:02:58
I saw somewhere in the description that they were talking about one parking space per unit. 00:03:04
In the application packet. 00:03:14
Did somebody else? Yes, but they also have a garage. Is this the page 15? 00:03:18
It was in, it was in a narrative that I read and I don't know 'cause I won per unit seems. 00:03:25
Unfortunate. 00:03:33
Say it again. Yeah, that's the SMTP that's. 00:03:36
Or the SMDP, which tells what they have to do. But it was in the narrative for this try point that caught my attention and I was a 00:03:41
little nervous about that. I saw that too, and then I thought that was mitigated by the garage parking. I don't know. Looks like 00:03:47
according to the individual units there are two car garages. 00:03:53
So that's what I couldn't figure out what they were talking about. Sure. What they're talking about. 00:04:01
OK. I'm not crazy though. No, all right. The elevations you have that's been provided to staff show 2 car garages. 00:04:05
We can you can definitely clarify that with the applicant when he comes. 00:04:13
Sure. 00:04:17
One quick note why we're on this screen looking at this shot right now is they have this concept site plan with all these trees, 00:04:18
which you know I love seeing all the trees on a plan I. 00:04:24
But I had no idea how they were actually going to fit them on the backside of the homes because it looks like it's all hardscape 00:04:31
except for like a 2 foot by three foot patch between the garages. And I'm just wondering is that a is that a really tall Bush they 00:04:37
anticipate putting in there? Or did I just misread the dimensions when I was looking at it on the? 00:04:43
It's definitely tight layout, definitely tight in there. 00:04:51
They're taking some liberty, aren't they? 00:04:56
Column Nur. 00:05:00
Polymer sticks with some glued on needles or something. 00:05:03
Some people call them. 00:05:09
Right, all ones. 00:05:12
On side trees. 00:05:15
So Justice was putting this elevation, these elevations together from a few different iterations, what they're calling their 00:05:19
final. But it looks to me talking to commissioner, that there might be missing an elevation. You'll notice that these look like 00:05:25
the primary. 00:05:32
Buildings that are on the ends. 00:05:39
But if you look at the site plan. 00:05:41
Care if you want to zoom into the middle of the block. 00:05:45
You can see that some of the units are split into two. I don't see that those elevations were included. They were on previous 00:05:48
iterations, which they look nice, but not on this set and. 00:05:53
Just bring that to your attention. Yeah, we did have floor plans for those though, because the floor plans are in there. Floor 00:06:00
plans. 00:06:04
Yeah. 00:06:07
But as long as they're carrying that style around the corner. 00:06:10
Umm, I would be OK with it, but that's not in there. It's not in the design. 00:06:16
So it's I mean. 00:06:22
In the original, is it any concern that this seems like it's deviating from the what is otherwise flat roof architecture and all 00:06:24
the other stuff that we've seen to where now suddenly we have these pitched roofs? 00:06:30
Pitches are definitely in those style palette. 00:06:37
OK. 00:06:40
I'd like to see if they can't break up the. 00:06:43
Rough too to make it look not so large of a building, but maybe more like individual units. 00:06:47
It looks like those old wooden forts. 00:06:54
Right. And it looks really boring. That's that's kind of a bad detail, isn't it? Yeah, it just kind of looks like a big blah. 00:06:57
I mean even with some color difference between the units and stuff like that would. 00:07:07
Maybe a little bit on the roof. 00:07:13
I think they're trying with the face of the building, but I think the roof needs to follow suit with that. 00:07:17
As far as what we're reviewing in the concept today, are we taking any of that into consideration? 00:07:24
That all like, you know, you come back with something that doesn't look like it was, you know, the 1840s Ford or what? 00:07:30
Uses and materials are just as important as architecture, OK? 00:07:37
And the landscaping. 00:07:43
That's compliant with the. That should be showing compliance with the zone or the SDMP. 00:07:45
Yes, I couldn't find when I was looking that the end elevations, I don't know which are facing the street, but some of them don't 00:07:50
have any detail whatsoever. 00:07:55
And I'm just wondering if they're facing a street if they couldn't copy some of the front architecture and wrap it around. 00:08:00
Yeah, that stood out to me right away when I looked at the concept is here's this giant flat wall with like two or three security 00:08:07
windows on it. And that does look very present, doesn't it? 00:08:12
So ugly. 00:08:18
You're talking about yes, Yeah. 00:08:20
Nope, 4580. 00:08:25
So I mean, I like that they've got the different material use on there. 00:08:28
You know, so it's not. 00:08:34
So whatever the Mono term is that applies to architecture on the one that's on the screen now is kind of what I'm talking about. 00:08:35
So. 00:08:40
Which one? The one that's on the screen now, The top left. Yeah, yeah. 00:08:46
Here's your giant wall. And I assume those when I first looked at, I guess those are the walls that are like going to face each 00:08:53
other on the inside. And if that's the case, then I'm not as worried about that. But then I guess this other one would be the 00:08:58
outer wall facing the road, right? 00:09:02
But everybody's going to know when everybody's going to the bathroom, right? 00:09:10
Well, the lights will be on. 00:09:18
The window on the bottom is. 00:09:23
Looks like a window into the garage. 00:09:26
In both cases, stairwell or something, yeah. 00:09:29
Because I would assume the garage is this like blank side over here. 00:09:33
That's the garage and then that's the. 00:09:39
Stairs up above it or whatever to the front door. 00:09:43
So as far as the change from apartments to the townhomes, as long as they don't exceed the density, they're OK with going down in. 00:09:47
Density, is that right? Yeah, Density is spread out over the tire block. So I think they're about halfway to their maximum with 00:09:56
with this concept. Do you have any concerns going down in density or if you want the staff have a desire to keep it as high as 00:10:02
possible to kind of meet what was the overall? 00:10:08
I think. 00:10:16
Not necessarily going down in density in this as you start to feather out into the neighborhood is good urban design. Keeping the 00:10:18
dense multi family units where like your 200 unit buildings should be. That's where you want to put all those eggs. 00:10:25
I'm sorry, can they transfer the units that they don't build here somewhere else on the project? 00:10:38
And they could go 90 feet, but they're only going 42 here. 00:10:47
So does that mean they are? 00:10:51
Likely to go up to 90 feet somewhere else. 00:10:54
They, I mean, they were really going to anyway. Yeah. And I would ask him that directly. He's pretty comfortable sharing who, what 00:10:58
buildings, what blocks will have the tallest buildings on it. 00:11:04
And right now, the block that's just been finished and the block next to it to the South. 00:11:11
Which I believe is black. 00:11:19
Or E yes will be the two tallest buildings at the at the 90 feet. The rest of them he doesn't want to have that tall. 00:11:22
I'm having. 00:11:32
How does? How does this little? 00:11:35
How does this picture? 00:11:39
Line up to this picture like I'm a little disoriented because I thought it was here, but it doesn't look like it's actually. 00:11:41
Yeah, so this is in between the. 00:11:49
Private lane, private homes and the new ones they've already built. 00:11:54
And then the big giant building that's going to be out in front, right? Like down in that, like just a little square in the middle 00:12:00
of all that I see. OK. 00:12:03
Yeah, this is what we're talking. Yeah, because he had a mixed commercial. I mean in this in, in some of the things it was 00:12:09
proposing mixed commercial, residential and this is all residential. 00:12:15
In front. 00:12:27
So when you look at the STMP for, for the range of uses that they're on Arbor Arbor and then they kind of wrap up the idea of 00:12:29
making sure that the original developer was also the designer. So in 2007 they had a plan in place for something that like that. 00:12:38
The users would be there, everything would be there. However, the overall theme of the master plan is to. 00:12:48
Address the development of the site to match market pressures. 00:12:55
So this is how he's addressing his need for housing in this market now rather than a 2007 version. Because demand for commercials 00:12:59
got down, right? 00:13:05
Residential is gone. 00:13:11
Doesn't mean that the commercial will be there. He still has to meet a minimum square footage of. 00:13:15
Commercial, he's nowhere near that. 00:13:19
So there still will be an intense commercial aspect to this site that we just now are not seeing yet. 00:13:22
Yeah. That's at the North End, right? Yeah, North and up the middle of the access, Yeah. 00:13:29
Yeah, the center of it. 00:13:35
Could you pull up that map on the open space? 00:13:40
On the whole complex. 00:13:44
I saw them there somewhere. 00:13:51
Oh, you passed it. 00:14:01
Yeah, the green. 00:14:03
So this. 00:14:12
Block has essentially none other than that little square on the original plan, then. 00:14:13
That original plan was parking. 00:14:19
There's a parking garage. 00:14:22
Where the little green square is, it says open space. My reading is right. 00:14:26
There, right? 00:14:31
I think it's this whole. 00:14:32
Yeah, isn't it that whole block? It's not just the yellow and the Gray. 00:14:36
I mean, just having walked around there, the open space, a lot of the open space. 00:14:47
Isn't open to anybody. 00:14:53
And that I mean there's a stream and the side of the stream and. 00:14:56
More stream and. 00:15:01
It's definitely open. Well, it's open in the sense that. 00:15:02
Has grass and water and all that, but there's. 00:15:07
You know, there's no play areas, There's no, that wasn't the intent of what open space was. So it's very different than the ones 00:15:10
I'm using. 00:15:14
No, it wasn't to be programmed like like a park would be. 00:15:19
Open just being that there's. 00:15:25
Basically not a structure or urban design there that it's just it has an open area. 00:15:27
What we're looking at absence of development. 00:15:34
What we're looking at for block G there doesn't seem to correspond with what we're looking at here. 00:15:38
That's true. 00:15:45
Because they're showing parking in the middle. And this is just really. 00:15:47
Dense with. 00:15:51
Housing, well the parking's in the garage is on this version as opposed to on that original plan. Wasn't it more apartment? 00:15:53
Yeah, oriented less garages were going to be a gateway style develop. 00:16:02
With that plan that you're showing has all the different colors within the blocks, that's a use plan. 00:16:08
So any of those uses were allowed on those levels on that blog? 00:16:14
In this proposal, one use is proposed rather than the mixture. 00:16:19
So my question about that is if. 00:16:26
If the builder can shift to respond to market. 00:16:30
OK. But if there's also, I mean reasonable, that seems like a reasonable thing. But but if there's a minimum commercial and it's 00:16:34
all just getting pushed elsewhere, that feels like it's going to change the nature of the entire development. Should we, I mean, 00:16:40
is it, is it important that we sort of push back and say we do want some kind of light commercial on the 1st floor of at least one 00:16:46
of these blocks? We know that it has to be somewhere. 00:16:52
Or is that not a? I just. I just feel like you don't have the when you have a full menu of uses that are allowed in one space and 00:16:59
you're not seeing one of them to push, that would be difficult. 00:17:04
To seeing that element and say no, I'd really like to see. 00:17:11
Retail here. 00:17:14
You could we can ask you can ask for that and see what the response is from the applicant would be. 00:17:17
But as long as they're keeping within their menu of uses, they're allowed. He gets to pick where they all go. That's why it's so 00:17:22
important on the cover of the master plan to say that site wide. 00:17:27
Regardless of however you shift things around, we're expecting a minimum square footage of retail. 00:17:34
And a maximum residential unit count. 00:17:39
However, the sites laid out so they could, if they wanted to, just put it all to the north as long as it hit that square footage 00:17:44
of commercial right. 00:17:48
The biggest issue with that is he doesn't get to put anything anywhere. 00:17:56
For example, in the limited use strip up along memory lane, he doesn't get to put commercial up in there, right? Commercial 00:18:00
doesn't get to go into the restricted area. 00:18:04
But in the open area, that's what it's intended to be for. Is open and flexible. 00:18:09
All right. Good discussion points, more questions around. 00:18:20
Block G that we need to cover in the work meeting. 00:18:24
All right. I think we're ready to talk about Block C final plat preliminary and final. So Block C normally with the concept and or 00:18:28
the the site plan that was reviewed by the Planning Commission for the bank. 00:18:35
Normally we would have seen a subdivision plat accompany it. 00:18:43
There was a delay with the applicant. He is just now coming forward to the Planning Commission to subdivide off that piece for the 00:18:48
bank. 00:18:51
That's one of one of the reasons why the Planet Earth staff is recommending preliminary and final. He's presented a plat that 00:18:55
meets state requirements for that area, and I think Justice put both a site plan in there to show how that fit in that little 00:19:01
puzzle piece that they're parceling off. 00:19:07
So the answer tonight is. 00:19:14
Approval where the Planning Commission has approval for a preliminary and final subdivision plat. 00:19:18
For just that one piece. You'll probably see this again as the rest of the block develops. 00:19:24
This won't be the final iteration for block C. 00:19:30
But nothing has really changed from the last time we looked at it three months ago or whatever it was. 00:19:35
So it's just subdividing that block. Yeah, right now it's under one ownership. Now it'll be under. 00:19:41
Whoever is going to be buying that piece of ground, are they still bound even though it would be a different owner? Are they still 00:19:49
bound by all of the development restrictions even if the guidelines, Yeah, even if it went to Wells Fargo? 00:19:56
They're still bound to the cycle. 00:20:04
Because we had, I mean those. 00:20:07
The homes with the flat roofs. 00:20:09
They just did their own thing it seems like. 00:20:12
Sandale banned something. 00:20:16
Mandalay No, that's simple. 00:20:20
They those they don't seem to match with the SMBP as much as no, not from my point of view. We've talked about this before. 00:20:23
And it's important it is. So the architecture on that subdivision plat, there will be a note on there that says as per Planning 00:20:35
Commission approval file number. So if Kerry and I are gone for some reason and they come back for a building permit, they show on 00:20:41
there that there's there's approvals that are tied to this law. 00:20:48
All right. Any other questions around the block? 00:20:58
All right. With that, I think we can go ahead and closeout our work meeting. We'll take a quick 4 minute recess and then we'll get 00:21:04
started on top of the hour. 00:21:07
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