Live stream not working in Chrome or Edge?

Transcript

Event transcript
We're good. All right. Well, good afternoon. Welcome to the Holiday Planning Commission, September 3rd, 2024 work meeting. Work 00:00:00
session, I should say. We have two items today and in attendance. We have all commissioners except Commissioner Vilcinski and both 00:00:07
city staff and legal counsel are present and currently no members of the public are here. That being said, we have the Royal 00:00:14
Holiday Hills Block G concept plan. 00:00:22
And then the Royal holiday Hills Block C. 00:00:30
Preliminary and final plat. 00:00:33
So who gets to start us off with item 1 today? 00:00:36
I get to take both of for you. 00:00:41
Really wanted to have justice here Justice wrote these reports for you but has come down I'll over the weekend Justice that 00:00:44
usually sits in the back corner yeah OK yeah making sure I'm thinking of great just as two first our new planner and he's doing an 00:00:50
excellent job wrote these reports for and did some analysis but unfortunately he's under the weather so. 00:00:57
I'll walk you through these two items tonight. 00:01:05
To Royal Holiday Hills applications either end of the property Block G is the first time you've seen Block G First time we've seen 00:01:09
this before. I was under the assumption when we had this concept. 00:01:15
Master plan down that this was going to be a large multi family building. 00:01:23
They are now selling it to Tri Point Homes. It was a national home builder coming into the new to the Utah market as far as I'm 00:01:29
aware. 00:01:32
And building some townhomes. 00:01:37
On this property 66. 00:01:39
So tonight what we're looking for is asking the question, does this comply with the site development master plan? 00:01:41
For the Royal Holiday hills meaning, use. 00:01:49
Density architecture, Parking. 00:01:53
Most of those elements Justice has gone through and given you some analysis from the staff's point of view. 00:01:58
Looking at the elevations, there's a few things that might be missing from those elevations. 00:02:04
And I'd be happy to walk through those when we get. 00:02:11
In the public hearing. 00:02:15
But justice, I believe, is put together a page that shows the primarily elevation of the building. 00:02:17
With the pallet, the vernacular palette, the architectural style palette, it's up to the applicant to provide to the Planning 00:02:23
Commission. 00:02:28
Showing him compliance with what styles he's pulling from so. 00:02:32
That would be a focus of part of the discussion. Use. Obviously the this block is within the open land use district which allows 00:02:37
for residential uses. Both attached. 00:02:43
In multifamily development. 00:02:50
Each townhome looks like his garage parked, which meets the minimum 2 parking stalls. 00:02:52
For each one of the units, sort of situated around a linear courtyard. 00:02:58
I saw somewhere in the description that they were talking about one parking space per unit. 00:03:04
In the application packet. 00:03:14
Did somebody else? Yes, but they also have a garage. Is this the page 15? 00:03:18
It was in, it was in a narrative that I read and I don't know 'cause I won per unit seems. 00:03:25
Unfortunate. 00:03:33
Say it again. Yeah, that's the SMTP that's. 00:03:36
Or the SMDP, which tells what they have to do. But it was in the narrative for this try point that caught my attention and I was a 00:03:41
little nervous about that. I saw that too, and then I thought that was mitigated by the garage parking. I don't know. Looks like 00:03:47
according to the individual units there are two car garages. 00:03:53
So that's what I couldn't figure out what they were talking about. Sure. What they're talking about. 00:04:01
OK. I'm not crazy though. No, all right. The elevations you have that's been provided to staff show 2 car garages. 00:04:05
We can you can definitely clarify that with the applicant when he comes. 00:04:13
Sure. 00:04:17
One quick note why we're on this screen looking at this shot right now is they have this concept site plan with all these trees, 00:04:18
which you know I love seeing all the trees on a plan I. 00:04:24
But I had no idea how they were actually going to fit them on the backside of the homes because it looks like it's all hardscape 00:04:31
except for like a 2 foot by three foot patch between the garages. And I'm just wondering is that a is that a really tall Bush they 00:04:37
anticipate putting in there? Or did I just misread the dimensions when I was looking at it on the? 00:04:43
It's definitely tight layout, definitely tight in there. 00:04:51
They're taking some liberty, aren't they? 00:04:56
Column Nur. 00:05:00
Polymer sticks with some glued on needles or something. 00:05:03
Some people call them. 00:05:09
Right, all ones. 00:05:12
On side trees. 00:05:15
So Justice was putting this elevation, these elevations together from a few different iterations, what they're calling their 00:05:19
final. But it looks to me talking to commissioner, that there might be missing an elevation. You'll notice that these look like 00:05:25
the primary. 00:05:32
Buildings that are on the ends. 00:05:39
But if you look at the site plan. 00:05:41
Care if you want to zoom into the middle of the block. 00:05:45
You can see that some of the units are split into two. I don't see that those elevations were included. They were on previous 00:05:48
iterations, which they look nice, but not on this set and. 00:05:53
Just bring that to your attention. Yeah, we did have floor plans for those though, because the floor plans are in there. Floor 00:06:00
plans. 00:06:04
Yeah. 00:06:07
But as long as they're carrying that style around the corner. 00:06:10
Umm, I would be OK with it, but that's not in there. It's not in the design. 00:06:16
So it's I mean. 00:06:22
In the original, is it any concern that this seems like it's deviating from the what is otherwise flat roof architecture and all 00:06:24
the other stuff that we've seen to where now suddenly we have these pitched roofs? 00:06:30
Pitches are definitely in those style palette. 00:06:37
OK. 00:06:40
I'd like to see if they can't break up the. 00:06:43
Rough too to make it look not so large of a building, but maybe more like individual units. 00:06:47
It looks like those old wooden forts. 00:06:54
Right. And it looks really boring. That's that's kind of a bad detail, isn't it? Yeah, it just kind of looks like a big blah. 00:06:57
I mean even with some color difference between the units and stuff like that would. 00:07:07
Maybe a little bit on the roof. 00:07:13
I think they're trying with the face of the building, but I think the roof needs to follow suit with that. 00:07:17
As far as what we're reviewing in the concept today, are we taking any of that into consideration? 00:07:24
That all like, you know, you come back with something that doesn't look like it was, you know, the 1840s Ford or what? 00:07:30
Uses and materials are just as important as architecture, OK? 00:07:37
And the landscaping. 00:07:43
That's compliant with the. That should be showing compliance with the zone or the SDMP. 00:07:45
Yes, I couldn't find when I was looking that the end elevations, I don't know which are facing the street, but some of them don't 00:07:50
have any detail whatsoever. 00:07:55
And I'm just wondering if they're facing a street if they couldn't copy some of the front architecture and wrap it around. 00:08:00
Yeah, that stood out to me right away when I looked at the concept is here's this giant flat wall with like two or three security 00:08:07
windows on it. And that does look very present, doesn't it? 00:08:12
So ugly. 00:08:18
You're talking about yes, Yeah. 00:08:20
Nope, 4580. 00:08:25
So I mean, I like that they've got the different material use on there. 00:08:28
You know, so it's not. 00:08:34
So whatever the Mono term is that applies to architecture on the one that's on the screen now is kind of what I'm talking about. 00:08:35
So. 00:08:40
Which one? The one that's on the screen now, The top left. Yeah, yeah. 00:08:46
Here's your giant wall. And I assume those when I first looked at, I guess those are the walls that are like going to face each 00:08:53
other on the inside. And if that's the case, then I'm not as worried about that. But then I guess this other one would be the 00:08:58
outer wall facing the road, right? 00:09:02
But everybody's going to know when everybody's going to the bathroom, right? 00:09:10
Well, the lights will be on. 00:09:18
The window on the bottom is. 00:09:23
Looks like a window into the garage. 00:09:26
In both cases, stairwell or something, yeah. 00:09:29
Because I would assume the garage is this like blank side over here. 00:09:33
That's the garage and then that's the. 00:09:39
Stairs up above it or whatever to the front door. 00:09:43
So as far as the change from apartments to the townhomes, as long as they don't exceed the density, they're OK with going down in. 00:09:47
Density, is that right? Yeah, Density is spread out over the tire block. So I think they're about halfway to their maximum with 00:09:56
with this concept. Do you have any concerns going down in density or if you want the staff have a desire to keep it as high as 00:10:02
possible to kind of meet what was the overall? 00:10:08
I think. 00:10:16
Not necessarily going down in density in this as you start to feather out into the neighborhood is good urban design. Keeping the 00:10:18
dense multi family units where like your 200 unit buildings should be. That's where you want to put all those eggs. 00:10:25
I'm sorry, can they transfer the units that they don't build here somewhere else on the project? 00:10:38
And they could go 90 feet, but they're only going 42 here. 00:10:47
So does that mean they are? 00:10:51
Likely to go up to 90 feet somewhere else. 00:10:54
They, I mean, they were really going to anyway. Yeah. And I would ask him that directly. He's pretty comfortable sharing who, what 00:10:58
buildings, what blocks will have the tallest buildings on it. 00:11:04
And right now, the block that's just been finished and the block next to it to the South. 00:11:11
Which I believe is black. 00:11:19
Or E yes will be the two tallest buildings at the at the 90 feet. The rest of them he doesn't want to have that tall. 00:11:22
I'm having. 00:11:32
How does? How does this little? 00:11:35
How does this picture? 00:11:39
Line up to this picture like I'm a little disoriented because I thought it was here, but it doesn't look like it's actually. 00:11:41
Yeah, so this is in between the. 00:11:49
Private lane, private homes and the new ones they've already built. 00:11:54
And then the big giant building that's going to be out in front, right? Like down in that, like just a little square in the middle 00:12:00
of all that I see. OK. 00:12:03
Yeah, this is what we're talking. Yeah, because he had a mixed commercial. I mean in this in, in some of the things it was 00:12:09
proposing mixed commercial, residential and this is all residential. 00:12:15
In front. 00:12:27
So when you look at the STMP for, for the range of uses that they're on Arbor Arbor and then they kind of wrap up the idea of 00:12:29
making sure that the original developer was also the designer. So in 2007 they had a plan in place for something that like that. 00:12:38
The users would be there, everything would be there. However, the overall theme of the master plan is to. 00:12:48
Address the development of the site to match market pressures. 00:12:55
So this is how he's addressing his need for housing in this market now rather than a 2007 version. Because demand for commercials 00:12:59
got down, right? 00:13:05
Residential is gone. 00:13:11
Doesn't mean that the commercial will be there. He still has to meet a minimum square footage of. 00:13:15
Commercial, he's nowhere near that. 00:13:19
So there still will be an intense commercial aspect to this site that we just now are not seeing yet. 00:13:22
Yeah. That's at the North End, right? Yeah, North and up the middle of the access, Yeah. 00:13:29
Yeah, the center of it. 00:13:35
Could you pull up that map on the open space? 00:13:40
On the whole complex. 00:13:44
I saw them there somewhere. 00:13:51
Oh, you passed it. 00:14:01
Yeah, the green. 00:14:03
So this. 00:14:12
Block has essentially none other than that little square on the original plan, then. 00:14:13
That original plan was parking. 00:14:19
There's a parking garage. 00:14:22
Where the little green square is, it says open space. My reading is right. 00:14:26
There, right? 00:14:31
I think it's this whole. 00:14:32
Yeah, isn't it that whole block? It's not just the yellow and the Gray. 00:14:36
I mean, just having walked around there, the open space, a lot of the open space. 00:14:47
Isn't open to anybody. 00:14:53
And that I mean there's a stream and the side of the stream and. 00:14:56
More stream and. 00:15:01
It's definitely open. Well, it's open in the sense that. 00:15:02
Has grass and water and all that, but there's. 00:15:07
You know, there's no play areas, There's no, that wasn't the intent of what open space was. So it's very different than the ones 00:15:10
I'm using. 00:15:14
No, it wasn't to be programmed like like a park would be. 00:15:19
Open just being that there's. 00:15:25
Basically not a structure or urban design there that it's just it has an open area. 00:15:27
What we're looking at absence of development. 00:15:34
What we're looking at for block G there doesn't seem to correspond with what we're looking at here. 00:15:38
That's true. 00:15:45
Because they're showing parking in the middle. And this is just really. 00:15:47
Dense with. 00:15:51
Housing, well the parking's in the garage is on this version as opposed to on that original plan. Wasn't it more apartment? 00:15:53
Yeah, oriented less garages were going to be a gateway style develop. 00:16:02
With that plan that you're showing has all the different colors within the blocks, that's a use plan. 00:16:08
So any of those uses were allowed on those levels on that blog? 00:16:14
In this proposal, one use is proposed rather than the mixture. 00:16:19
So my question about that is if. 00:16:26
If the builder can shift to respond to market. 00:16:30
OK. But if there's also, I mean reasonable, that seems like a reasonable thing. But but if there's a minimum commercial and it's 00:16:34
all just getting pushed elsewhere, that feels like it's going to change the nature of the entire development. Should we, I mean, 00:16:40
is it, is it important that we sort of push back and say we do want some kind of light commercial on the 1st floor of at least one 00:16:46
of these blocks? We know that it has to be somewhere. 00:16:52
Or is that not a? I just. I just feel like you don't have the when you have a full menu of uses that are allowed in one space and 00:16:59
you're not seeing one of them to push, that would be difficult. 00:17:04
To seeing that element and say no, I'd really like to see. 00:17:11
Retail here. 00:17:14
You could we can ask you can ask for that and see what the response is from the applicant would be. 00:17:17
But as long as they're keeping within their menu of uses, they're allowed. He gets to pick where they all go. That's why it's so 00:17:22
important on the cover of the master plan to say that site wide. 00:17:27
Regardless of however you shift things around, we're expecting a minimum square footage of retail. 00:17:34
And a maximum residential unit count. 00:17:39
However, the sites laid out so they could, if they wanted to, just put it all to the north as long as it hit that square footage 00:17:44
of commercial right. 00:17:48
The biggest issue with that is he doesn't get to put anything anywhere. 00:17:56
For example, in the limited use strip up along memory lane, he doesn't get to put commercial up in there, right? Commercial 00:18:00
doesn't get to go into the restricted area. 00:18:04
But in the open area, that's what it's intended to be for. Is open and flexible. 00:18:09
All right. Good discussion points, more questions around. 00:18:20
Block G that we need to cover in the work meeting. 00:18:24
All right. I think we're ready to talk about Block C final plat preliminary and final. So Block C normally with the concept and or 00:18:28
the the site plan that was reviewed by the Planning Commission for the bank. 00:18:35
Normally we would have seen a subdivision plat accompany it. 00:18:43
There was a delay with the applicant. He is just now coming forward to the Planning Commission to subdivide off that piece for the 00:18:48
bank. 00:18:51
That's one of one of the reasons why the Planet Earth staff is recommending preliminary and final. He's presented a plat that 00:18:55
meets state requirements for that area, and I think Justice put both a site plan in there to show how that fit in that little 00:19:01
puzzle piece that they're parceling off. 00:19:07
So the answer tonight is. 00:19:14
Approval where the Planning Commission has approval for a preliminary and final subdivision plat. 00:19:18
For just that one piece. You'll probably see this again as the rest of the block develops. 00:19:24
This won't be the final iteration for block C. 00:19:30
But nothing has really changed from the last time we looked at it three months ago or whatever it was. 00:19:35
So it's just subdividing that block. Yeah, right now it's under one ownership. Now it'll be under. 00:19:41
Whoever is going to be buying that piece of ground, are they still bound even though it would be a different owner? Are they still 00:19:49
bound by all of the development restrictions even if the guidelines, Yeah, even if it went to Wells Fargo? 00:19:56
They're still bound to the cycle. 00:20:04
Because we had, I mean those. 00:20:07
The homes with the flat roofs. 00:20:09
They just did their own thing it seems like. 00:20:12
Sandale banned something. 00:20:16
Mandalay No, that's simple. 00:20:20
They those they don't seem to match with the SMBP as much as no, not from my point of view. We've talked about this before. 00:20:23
And it's important it is. So the architecture on that subdivision plat, there will be a note on there that says as per Planning 00:20:35
Commission approval file number. So if Kerry and I are gone for some reason and they come back for a building permit, they show on 00:20:41
there that there's there's approvals that are tied to this law. 00:20:48
All right. Any other questions around the block? 00:20:58
All right. With that, I think we can go ahead and closeout our work meeting. We'll take a quick 4 minute recess and then we'll get 00:21:04
started on top of the hour. 00:21:07
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file. Make sure you have Adobe Reader installed

Transcript

Event transcript
We're good. All right. Well, good afternoon. Welcome to the Holiday Planning Commission, September 3rd, 2024 work meeting. Work 00:00:00
session, I should say. We have two items today and in attendance. We have all commissioners except Commissioner Vilcinski and both 00:00:07
city staff and legal counsel are present and currently no members of the public are here. That being said, we have the Royal 00:00:14
Holiday Hills Block G concept plan. 00:00:22
And then the Royal holiday Hills Block C. 00:00:30
Preliminary and final plat. 00:00:33
So who gets to start us off with item 1 today? 00:00:36
I get to take both of for you. 00:00:41
Really wanted to have justice here Justice wrote these reports for you but has come down I'll over the weekend Justice that 00:00:44
usually sits in the back corner yeah OK yeah making sure I'm thinking of great just as two first our new planner and he's doing an 00:00:50
excellent job wrote these reports for and did some analysis but unfortunately he's under the weather so. 00:00:57
I'll walk you through these two items tonight. 00:01:05
To Royal Holiday Hills applications either end of the property Block G is the first time you've seen Block G First time we've seen 00:01:09
this before. I was under the assumption when we had this concept. 00:01:15
Master plan down that this was going to be a large multi family building. 00:01:23
They are now selling it to Tri Point Homes. It was a national home builder coming into the new to the Utah market as far as I'm 00:01:29
aware. 00:01:32
And building some townhomes. 00:01:37
On this property 66. 00:01:39
So tonight what we're looking for is asking the question, does this comply with the site development master plan? 00:01:41
For the Royal Holiday hills meaning, use. 00:01:49
Density architecture, Parking. 00:01:53
Most of those elements Justice has gone through and given you some analysis from the staff's point of view. 00:01:58
Looking at the elevations, there's a few things that might be missing from those elevations. 00:02:04
And I'd be happy to walk through those when we get. 00:02:11
In the public hearing. 00:02:15
But justice, I believe, is put together a page that shows the primarily elevation of the building. 00:02:17
With the pallet, the vernacular palette, the architectural style palette, it's up to the applicant to provide to the Planning 00:02:23
Commission. 00:02:28
Showing him compliance with what styles he's pulling from so. 00:02:32
That would be a focus of part of the discussion. Use. Obviously the this block is within the open land use district which allows 00:02:37
for residential uses. Both attached. 00:02:43
In multifamily development. 00:02:50
Each townhome looks like his garage parked, which meets the minimum 2 parking stalls. 00:02:52
For each one of the units, sort of situated around a linear courtyard. 00:02:58
I saw somewhere in the description that they were talking about one parking space per unit. 00:03:04
In the application packet. 00:03:14
Did somebody else? Yes, but they also have a garage. Is this the page 15? 00:03:18
It was in, it was in a narrative that I read and I don't know 'cause I won per unit seems. 00:03:25
Unfortunate. 00:03:33
Say it again. Yeah, that's the SMTP that's. 00:03:36
Or the SMDP, which tells what they have to do. But it was in the narrative for this try point that caught my attention and I was a 00:03:41
little nervous about that. I saw that too, and then I thought that was mitigated by the garage parking. I don't know. Looks like 00:03:47
according to the individual units there are two car garages. 00:03:53
So that's what I couldn't figure out what they were talking about. Sure. What they're talking about. 00:04:01
OK. I'm not crazy though. No, all right. The elevations you have that's been provided to staff show 2 car garages. 00:04:05
We can you can definitely clarify that with the applicant when he comes. 00:04:13
Sure. 00:04:17
One quick note why we're on this screen looking at this shot right now is they have this concept site plan with all these trees, 00:04:18
which you know I love seeing all the trees on a plan I. 00:04:24
But I had no idea how they were actually going to fit them on the backside of the homes because it looks like it's all hardscape 00:04:31
except for like a 2 foot by three foot patch between the garages. And I'm just wondering is that a is that a really tall Bush they 00:04:37
anticipate putting in there? Or did I just misread the dimensions when I was looking at it on the? 00:04:43
It's definitely tight layout, definitely tight in there. 00:04:51
They're taking some liberty, aren't they? 00:04:56
Column Nur. 00:05:00
Polymer sticks with some glued on needles or something. 00:05:03
Some people call them. 00:05:09
Right, all ones. 00:05:12
On side trees. 00:05:15
So Justice was putting this elevation, these elevations together from a few different iterations, what they're calling their 00:05:19
final. But it looks to me talking to commissioner, that there might be missing an elevation. You'll notice that these look like 00:05:25
the primary. 00:05:32
Buildings that are on the ends. 00:05:39
But if you look at the site plan. 00:05:41
Care if you want to zoom into the middle of the block. 00:05:45
You can see that some of the units are split into two. I don't see that those elevations were included. They were on previous 00:05:48
iterations, which they look nice, but not on this set and. 00:05:53
Just bring that to your attention. Yeah, we did have floor plans for those though, because the floor plans are in there. Floor 00:06:00
plans. 00:06:04
Yeah. 00:06:07
But as long as they're carrying that style around the corner. 00:06:10
Umm, I would be OK with it, but that's not in there. It's not in the design. 00:06:16
So it's I mean. 00:06:22
In the original, is it any concern that this seems like it's deviating from the what is otherwise flat roof architecture and all 00:06:24
the other stuff that we've seen to where now suddenly we have these pitched roofs? 00:06:30
Pitches are definitely in those style palette. 00:06:37
OK. 00:06:40
I'd like to see if they can't break up the. 00:06:43
Rough too to make it look not so large of a building, but maybe more like individual units. 00:06:47
It looks like those old wooden forts. 00:06:54
Right. And it looks really boring. That's that's kind of a bad detail, isn't it? Yeah, it just kind of looks like a big blah. 00:06:57
I mean even with some color difference between the units and stuff like that would. 00:07:07
Maybe a little bit on the roof. 00:07:13
I think they're trying with the face of the building, but I think the roof needs to follow suit with that. 00:07:17
As far as what we're reviewing in the concept today, are we taking any of that into consideration? 00:07:24
That all like, you know, you come back with something that doesn't look like it was, you know, the 1840s Ford or what? 00:07:30
Uses and materials are just as important as architecture, OK? 00:07:37
And the landscaping. 00:07:43
That's compliant with the. That should be showing compliance with the zone or the SDMP. 00:07:45
Yes, I couldn't find when I was looking that the end elevations, I don't know which are facing the street, but some of them don't 00:07:50
have any detail whatsoever. 00:07:55
And I'm just wondering if they're facing a street if they couldn't copy some of the front architecture and wrap it around. 00:08:00
Yeah, that stood out to me right away when I looked at the concept is here's this giant flat wall with like two or three security 00:08:07
windows on it. And that does look very present, doesn't it? 00:08:12
So ugly. 00:08:18
You're talking about yes, Yeah. 00:08:20
Nope, 4580. 00:08:25
So I mean, I like that they've got the different material use on there. 00:08:28
You know, so it's not. 00:08:34
So whatever the Mono term is that applies to architecture on the one that's on the screen now is kind of what I'm talking about. 00:08:35
So. 00:08:40
Which one? The one that's on the screen now, The top left. Yeah, yeah. 00:08:46
Here's your giant wall. And I assume those when I first looked at, I guess those are the walls that are like going to face each 00:08:53
other on the inside. And if that's the case, then I'm not as worried about that. But then I guess this other one would be the 00:08:58
outer wall facing the road, right? 00:09:02
But everybody's going to know when everybody's going to the bathroom, right? 00:09:10
Well, the lights will be on. 00:09:18
The window on the bottom is. 00:09:23
Looks like a window into the garage. 00:09:26
In both cases, stairwell or something, yeah. 00:09:29
Because I would assume the garage is this like blank side over here. 00:09:33
That's the garage and then that's the. 00:09:39
Stairs up above it or whatever to the front door. 00:09:43
So as far as the change from apartments to the townhomes, as long as they don't exceed the density, they're OK with going down in. 00:09:47
Density, is that right? Yeah, Density is spread out over the tire block. So I think they're about halfway to their maximum with 00:09:56
with this concept. Do you have any concerns going down in density or if you want the staff have a desire to keep it as high as 00:10:02
possible to kind of meet what was the overall? 00:10:08
I think. 00:10:16
Not necessarily going down in density in this as you start to feather out into the neighborhood is good urban design. Keeping the 00:10:18
dense multi family units where like your 200 unit buildings should be. That's where you want to put all those eggs. 00:10:25
I'm sorry, can they transfer the units that they don't build here somewhere else on the project? 00:10:38
And they could go 90 feet, but they're only going 42 here. 00:10:47
So does that mean they are? 00:10:51
Likely to go up to 90 feet somewhere else. 00:10:54
They, I mean, they were really going to anyway. Yeah. And I would ask him that directly. He's pretty comfortable sharing who, what 00:10:58
buildings, what blocks will have the tallest buildings on it. 00:11:04
And right now, the block that's just been finished and the block next to it to the South. 00:11:11
Which I believe is black. 00:11:19
Or E yes will be the two tallest buildings at the at the 90 feet. The rest of them he doesn't want to have that tall. 00:11:22
I'm having. 00:11:32
How does? How does this little? 00:11:35
How does this picture? 00:11:39
Line up to this picture like I'm a little disoriented because I thought it was here, but it doesn't look like it's actually. 00:11:41
Yeah, so this is in between the. 00:11:49
Private lane, private homes and the new ones they've already built. 00:11:54
And then the big giant building that's going to be out in front, right? Like down in that, like just a little square in the middle 00:12:00
of all that I see. OK. 00:12:03
Yeah, this is what we're talking. Yeah, because he had a mixed commercial. I mean in this in, in some of the things it was 00:12:09
proposing mixed commercial, residential and this is all residential. 00:12:15
In front. 00:12:27
So when you look at the STMP for, for the range of uses that they're on Arbor Arbor and then they kind of wrap up the idea of 00:12:29
making sure that the original developer was also the designer. So in 2007 they had a plan in place for something that like that. 00:12:38
The users would be there, everything would be there. However, the overall theme of the master plan is to. 00:12:48
Address the development of the site to match market pressures. 00:12:55
So this is how he's addressing his need for housing in this market now rather than a 2007 version. Because demand for commercials 00:12:59
got down, right? 00:13:05
Residential is gone. 00:13:11
Doesn't mean that the commercial will be there. He still has to meet a minimum square footage of. 00:13:15
Commercial, he's nowhere near that. 00:13:19
So there still will be an intense commercial aspect to this site that we just now are not seeing yet. 00:13:22
Yeah. That's at the North End, right? Yeah, North and up the middle of the access, Yeah. 00:13:29
Yeah, the center of it. 00:13:35
Could you pull up that map on the open space? 00:13:40
On the whole complex. 00:13:44
I saw them there somewhere. 00:13:51
Oh, you passed it. 00:14:01
Yeah, the green. 00:14:03
So this. 00:14:12
Block has essentially none other than that little square on the original plan, then. 00:14:13
That original plan was parking. 00:14:19
There's a parking garage. 00:14:22
Where the little green square is, it says open space. My reading is right. 00:14:26
There, right? 00:14:31
I think it's this whole. 00:14:32
Yeah, isn't it that whole block? It's not just the yellow and the Gray. 00:14:36
I mean, just having walked around there, the open space, a lot of the open space. 00:14:47
Isn't open to anybody. 00:14:53
And that I mean there's a stream and the side of the stream and. 00:14:56
More stream and. 00:15:01
It's definitely open. Well, it's open in the sense that. 00:15:02
Has grass and water and all that, but there's. 00:15:07
You know, there's no play areas, There's no, that wasn't the intent of what open space was. So it's very different than the ones 00:15:10
I'm using. 00:15:14
No, it wasn't to be programmed like like a park would be. 00:15:19
Open just being that there's. 00:15:25
Basically not a structure or urban design there that it's just it has an open area. 00:15:27
What we're looking at absence of development. 00:15:34
What we're looking at for block G there doesn't seem to correspond with what we're looking at here. 00:15:38
That's true. 00:15:45
Because they're showing parking in the middle. And this is just really. 00:15:47
Dense with. 00:15:51
Housing, well the parking's in the garage is on this version as opposed to on that original plan. Wasn't it more apartment? 00:15:53
Yeah, oriented less garages were going to be a gateway style develop. 00:16:02
With that plan that you're showing has all the different colors within the blocks, that's a use plan. 00:16:08
So any of those uses were allowed on those levels on that blog? 00:16:14
In this proposal, one use is proposed rather than the mixture. 00:16:19
So my question about that is if. 00:16:26
If the builder can shift to respond to market. 00:16:30
OK. But if there's also, I mean reasonable, that seems like a reasonable thing. But but if there's a minimum commercial and it's 00:16:34
all just getting pushed elsewhere, that feels like it's going to change the nature of the entire development. Should we, I mean, 00:16:40
is it, is it important that we sort of push back and say we do want some kind of light commercial on the 1st floor of at least one 00:16:46
of these blocks? We know that it has to be somewhere. 00:16:52
Or is that not a? I just. I just feel like you don't have the when you have a full menu of uses that are allowed in one space and 00:16:59
you're not seeing one of them to push, that would be difficult. 00:17:04
To seeing that element and say no, I'd really like to see. 00:17:11
Retail here. 00:17:14
You could we can ask you can ask for that and see what the response is from the applicant would be. 00:17:17
But as long as they're keeping within their menu of uses, they're allowed. He gets to pick where they all go. That's why it's so 00:17:22
important on the cover of the master plan to say that site wide. 00:17:27
Regardless of however you shift things around, we're expecting a minimum square footage of retail. 00:17:34
And a maximum residential unit count. 00:17:39
However, the sites laid out so they could, if they wanted to, just put it all to the north as long as it hit that square footage 00:17:44
of commercial right. 00:17:48
The biggest issue with that is he doesn't get to put anything anywhere. 00:17:56
For example, in the limited use strip up along memory lane, he doesn't get to put commercial up in there, right? Commercial 00:18:00
doesn't get to go into the restricted area. 00:18:04
But in the open area, that's what it's intended to be for. Is open and flexible. 00:18:09
All right. Good discussion points, more questions around. 00:18:20
Block G that we need to cover in the work meeting. 00:18:24
All right. I think we're ready to talk about Block C final plat preliminary and final. So Block C normally with the concept and or 00:18:28
the the site plan that was reviewed by the Planning Commission for the bank. 00:18:35
Normally we would have seen a subdivision plat accompany it. 00:18:43
There was a delay with the applicant. He is just now coming forward to the Planning Commission to subdivide off that piece for the 00:18:48
bank. 00:18:51
That's one of one of the reasons why the Planet Earth staff is recommending preliminary and final. He's presented a plat that 00:18:55
meets state requirements for that area, and I think Justice put both a site plan in there to show how that fit in that little 00:19:01
puzzle piece that they're parceling off. 00:19:07
So the answer tonight is. 00:19:14
Approval where the Planning Commission has approval for a preliminary and final subdivision plat. 00:19:18
For just that one piece. You'll probably see this again as the rest of the block develops. 00:19:24
This won't be the final iteration for block C. 00:19:30
But nothing has really changed from the last time we looked at it three months ago or whatever it was. 00:19:35
So it's just subdividing that block. Yeah, right now it's under one ownership. Now it'll be under. 00:19:41
Whoever is going to be buying that piece of ground, are they still bound even though it would be a different owner? Are they still 00:19:49
bound by all of the development restrictions even if the guidelines, Yeah, even if it went to Wells Fargo? 00:19:56
They're still bound to the cycle. 00:20:04
Because we had, I mean those. 00:20:07
The homes with the flat roofs. 00:20:09
They just did their own thing it seems like. 00:20:12
Sandale banned something. 00:20:16
Mandalay No, that's simple. 00:20:20
They those they don't seem to match with the SMBP as much as no, not from my point of view. We've talked about this before. 00:20:23
And it's important it is. So the architecture on that subdivision plat, there will be a note on there that says as per Planning 00:20:35
Commission approval file number. So if Kerry and I are gone for some reason and they come back for a building permit, they show on 00:20:41
there that there's there's approvals that are tied to this law. 00:20:48
All right. Any other questions around the block? 00:20:58
All right. With that, I think we can go ahead and closeout our work meeting. We'll take a quick 4 minute recess and then we'll get 00:21:04
started on top of the hour. 00:21:07