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OK. Welcome everybody. Sorry, we are. 00:00:17
3 minutes late we had a little. 00:00:21
Discussion going on across the hall, so I apologize. 00:00:24
Anyway we are we will call to order the City of Holiday City Council Meeting on Thursday, February 1st and ask everybody to rise 00:00:27
for the pledge, please. 00:00:31
The United States of America. 00:00:39
And save the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:45
Thank you, everybody. Before we open up public comment, I just want to clarify that we have a continued public hearing. 00:00:57
On the rezone application at 2051 and 2061 E as item number 4. 00:01:06
On the agenda. So if you are here to address the Council on that particular application, Please wait for that continued public 00:01:12
hearing. If you are here to address the Council on anything other than that rezone application, public comment is now open. We 00:01:19
just ask you to approach the podium, give us your name and address and try to keep it to 3 minutes or less, please. Public 00:01:26
comments Now, Trudy, why don't you start us off, show everybody how it's done. 00:01:33
I'm Trudy. I'm from the library. 00:01:43
Our new app is so much better at finding the events on there that I'm only going to hit the really good ones because you can find 00:01:47
the stuff better now, so this is awesome. 00:01:50
Our book Club Our Saturday, Our first Saturday book club. It's probably too late for you to read the book for this Saturday, but 00:02:29
in March it's going to be Our Missing Hearts by Celeste Ng and we welcome everybody to come and join in that. 00:02:36
Maker Monday is on the 5th. Come make a Valentine heart with our with Emma. She's our Createspace coordinator and it's going to be 00:02:45
all learning about the cricket machine. It's awesome. 00:02:50
This month, all month long, we're going to have the photography of Mark Mickelson in our large meeting room. But if you come on 00:02:56
the 9th at 4:00, there's an artist reception. You can meet the artist and talk to him. 00:03:00
On the 10th we are going to coordinate with holiday trees and they're going to have a tree talk on fruit tree pruning if that's 00:03:06
your thing. 00:03:10
And just a note, we've had such a great response to our craft programs for adults that crafter space on the second Tuesdays now 00:03:16
requires registration. 00:03:20
So if you want to come make a Felt charcuterie board, you're going to have to sign up. 00:03:25
On the 14th, we're going to have a special Valentine's slumber story time at 7:00. 00:03:29
The family film on the 17th is going to be Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny will be closed the 19th for Presidents Day. And 00:03:35
then there's if you've never had a sound bath, we will be having one of those on the 24th at 10:15. 00:03:41
And that is what we are doing, some of a few of the things that we're going to be doing at the library in February. 00:03:48
Do you have any questions? 00:03:54
No, just it's amazing all the stuff that goes on over at that library. 00:03:57
Chase my kids, my grandkids around sometimes on Tuesday and we come over for a reading. 00:04:03
10:15 There's always a full house there and there's always all sorts of activities, so kudos to you and your staff. Always 00:04:08
something fun to do. And in February will be Hugo months so you can come visit our huge Krog. 00:04:14
Just saying. 00:04:21
Thank you. 00:04:25
Anybody else for public comment not associated with the public hearing. 00:04:29
OK. Not seeing any. I'm going to close public comment. 00:04:38
The rezone application is item number four, but out of respect for the time of some of our officers who are receiving awards 00:04:43
today, I would like to ask the council for a motion to move item number 7A and take that item out of order and then we'll move to 00:04:48
item number 4. 00:04:54
2nd I have a motion and a second. All in favor. Say aye, aye. Any opposed? OK, then we will move to item number 7A. This is the 00:05:01
Unified Police Department incentive awards Chief Hoyle. 00:05:07
Thank you, Mayor and Council, and I'm truly honored to be able to be here. And I've asked Lieutenant Ackerman to join me up here 00:05:15
as we present some of these awards tonight. As you know, I'm just so proud of our precinct and the officers that work here and and 00:05:20
the exceptional work that they continually do. And there's a few of our members tonight that I'd like to personally recognize. And 00:05:25
I'll start with Officers Bithel Norcross and still. 00:05:30
Join us up here for just a minute. 00:05:37
All three of these members are your cover graveyard shift. So these guys work your graveyard shift Saturday, Sunday and Monday 00:05:40
nights and go out of their way to keep keep the city safe at night while we well, we're all sleeping. But on one particular 00:05:46
instant I want to recognize these guys for is is just amazing to say the least. So on December 18th, 2023 Officers Bissell 00:05:52
Norcross and Sales responded to a home and holiday of a 23 year old autistic male who had a knife was threatening his parents and 00:05:57
himself. 00:06:03
Could relate to them and were caring. He was very grateful that this situation ended peacefully and his son was able to get the 00:06:48
help he needed. 00:06:51
Yours. 00:07:28
Thank you guys. Appreciate it. 00:07:32
So this next one that I'd like to present a little bit unique. 00:07:43
In in this incentive award that we want to do and I'd ask Sergeant Bench to come up and I'm actually going to ask two of his 00:07:48
officers that are on his shift, Officer Rasmussen, Officer Seibert to come up here as well. You probably remember Officer Seibert 00:07:54
and Rasmussen who are here a couple of months ago for an incentive to work for their great work. 00:07:59
But in this particular award, it's not too often that the officers recognize their supervisor for his or her outstanding 00:08:06
leadership abilities. And this all started because of these two officers recognizing Sergeant Bench and the great work that he 00:08:13
does. And he is on our traditional graveyard shift, so he keeps the city safe while you're sleeping. Tuesday through Friday, all 00:08:20
three of these folks do here. So anyway, so I initially started this and submitted this award. 00:08:27
After Officer Rasmussen sent me an e-mail about Sergeant benches, great work. And then a couple days later after I'd submitted it, 00:08:35
Officer Cyber sent an e-mail as well. And so I'll read the award that has Officer Rasmussen's comments and then tell you some of 00:08:40
the things that Officer Cyber said as well. So an employee, that Sergeant Bent supervisor sent a very kind e-mail about the 00:08:46
fantastic leader that he is in part, the e-mail reads. 00:08:52
And in addition, I thought it would be important to share some of the comments that Officer Cyber said he about him. Sergeant 00:10:08
Bench handled himself professionally when dealing with the public and his subordinates. He's always available to assist officers 00:10:13
not only on high profile investigations but on routine low level ones as well. He tries to make himself available and or give 00:10:18
one-on-one advice. Additionally, he's not afraid to jump in and take investigations. 00:10:23
And that can lead to bad morale. While Sergeant Ben shows up on a call, officers feel at ease and welcome his presence. Only few 00:10:59
supervisors have this ability. 00:11:02
I think it's super important and I've known Zach for a lot of years and he is one of those amazing supervisors and we're truly 00:11:06
honored to have him serving and working in this community. So with that, we're going to present him with the incentive award as 00:11:10
well. 00:11:14
You might come down to grab a picture with everybody here and. 00:11:24
Thank you. 00:11:55
Thank you for letting us have this time. I appreciate it. 00:12:00
Before they all skate out of here, which should be probably shortly. 00:12:04
We always want to take the opportunity to thank our officers for all they do for our community. We just feel so lucky to be part 00:12:09
of the Unified family and Chief Hoyle, your leadership. So anyway, I know you have families to get to or some of you are on duty, 00:12:14
I can see. But anyway, congratulations and thank you very much. 00:12:20
OK. Thank you. And we will move now back on agenda. 00:12:48
To item number four, this the continued public hearing. 00:12:54
At some point, I'm going to transition this discussion over to Council Member Ty Brewer, who represents this particular area and 00:13:00
has taken a lot of. 00:13:04
The comment from residents. 00:13:08
That are affected by this particular rezone application also in discussion with the applicant. 00:13:12
Since the public hearing opened up at the last council meeting. 00:13:20
We took, we took about 8 online comments, I think it was Stephanie, something like that, and then a number of comments from people 00:13:24
that were here in person. 00:13:29
And it seemed a lot of the concern had to do with the. 00:13:34
40 foot height that is associated with the PO zone in this particular application. 00:13:41
It caused us to. 00:13:50
Reach out to staff and discuss that a little bit and see what the genesis of the 40 foot height. 00:13:53
In the PO zone where that came from when that code was created, as the commercial zones are 35 feet C2 and C1 and the residential 00:14:00
zone, at least the residential zone that it puts this particular application is 32 feet. 00:14:07
And it kind of started an application and a discussion rather about. 00:14:15
You know how that happened and what the justification was and if these concerns were. 00:14:20
Were something we should be taking into account as a council going forward. 00:14:27
And so we started having this conversation with staff. 00:14:34
We received an updated kind of an updated staff report from Carrie Marsh and John. John Tierling. Kerry Marsh is with us tonight. 00:14:38
Kerry, why don't you come up and. 00:14:43
We can see if there's any more information the Council needs before we continue the public hearing. 00:14:49
So this is the. 00:14:55
The staff report, that's in the packet, the updated staff report. 00:14:57
Thanks, Mayor. 00:15:02
So with the direction to look at the PO zone and kind of the history behind that. 00:15:05
A lot of infill development I. 00:15:12
Is addressed by context, looking at what is surrounding a particular area or property and then blood zones or how to put zoning 00:15:15
regulations that. 00:15:22
Address the context of properties so that you when you do have infill development that. 00:15:29
It creates A context for how that development would take. 00:15:35
We looked at in particular. 00:15:41
This application or this location? The context of Murray Holiday Road and the context of being next to a residential zone. 00:15:44
Delmont and Sycamore. 00:15:56
A common. 00:16:00
Contextual infill may include something like bringing the buildings massing up toward the front of the main road, so closer to the 00:16:01
Main St. creates A pedestrian friendly environment, more safety. 00:16:09
'S. 00:16:18
That same concept was used in the Holiday Village zone, where you have buildings that are much closer. The PO zone was not as 00:16:19
developed as the Holiday Village zone. It's also a much. 00:16:25
Broader kind of application. Holiday village was all concentrated in one area, the PO zone. We're looking at properties on 00:16:33
Highland Drive and Murray Holiday Rd. So there's there's a bigger context there than just the concentration in the village. And so 00:16:39
that's why it's kind of more standards, more concentration for context was created for the holiday village zone specifically and 00:16:46
why the PO zone was a little bit broader. 00:16:52
But the main concept for the creation of that PO zone was to bring the buildings massing forward. 00:17:00
With bringing the massing forward also increasing the distance between residential areas. 00:17:07
Specifically discussing A buffer between that higher building mass. Inc and commercial or office use. 00:17:15
That would be allowed in that building and moving that further away from residential areas and locating it closer to the street. 00:17:25
That concept could be continued further you might have. 00:17:35
So in the staff report we talked about a 50% law area so. 00:17:41
Taking half the distance of a lot and allowing. 00:17:47
More building massing in the front portion of the lot and then stepping back or reducing building massing in the rear 50% of the 00:17:52
lot. So that is a concept that would be contextual, that could be applied for this application. It could be applied across all PO 00:17:59
zones, something that the council could look at for. 00:18:06
Exploring future zones or modifications if we wanted to make those contextual infill type changes. 00:18:14
Specifically to address some of the height concerns that. 00:18:22
That you may get when. 00:18:25
Creating infill development next to residential zones. So that is one way that you can address it is with. 00:18:29
More creative, contextual based. 00:18:36
Codes, so that is. 00:18:40
Kind of. The update or in the staff report was looking at what that reduced height next to a residential zone would be. It could 00:18:43
match the residential height, it could match what is in the existing RM zone, which is 35. So it's a difference of either 32 or 00:18:49
35. 00:18:56
But there's also the. 00:19:04
Concept in the PO zone that that 30 foot set back increase was created to create a buffer as well. So those are all just different 00:19:07
ways that buffering between infill commercial office development and residential development can be addressed. 00:19:16
Are there any questions that you'd like me to? 00:19:27
Run through the 50% that's in the report. 00:19:32
Does that is. 00:19:37
To the 30 foot set back? Or is that over the entire width of the of? 00:19:39
It takes. It takes the property as a whole. OK. 00:19:45
If it was 100 feet. 00:19:49
You'd have a 10 foot set back and then 50 feet back you would you would in this particular case or whatever they came up with, you 00:19:52
dropped from 40 to 35 feet and taper it into the neighborhood and is that, is that what you mean when you say? 00:19:59
So what's the zoning reference form based? 00:20:07
That's what you mean by form based or context based. It's the same kind of concept as looking at what's already in place and. 00:20:13
Creating. 00:20:21
Standards for buildings that. 00:20:22
Or take the full context of what's already there into account. 00:20:27
Carrie, do you know if this type, this form based type of zoning was considered when they originally created the PPO zone or if 00:20:32
that was part of the discussion at all or if it or? 00:20:38
It was considered and then set aside or just never considered or what was what was created in the PO zone is a form of form based 00:20:45
code and it takes some of those same principles, but it's not explicitly called out as form based code. But that is the same 00:20:50
principle of bringing your buildings closer to the street, allowing your massing to be closer to the to the street. So we're 00:20:56
talking about. 00:21:01
So what we're talking about here is it's essentially tweaking some of the same parameters. 00:21:09
One of which could be stepped down in height as you approach the residence, but then that also opens up. 00:21:16
The whole box of then do you extend the set back? 00:21:22
Back to 20 instead of 30 because you are reducing height, so there's all kinds of different tweaks. 00:21:26
That we could make to these zones and evolve them. 00:21:32
Of course, these are discussions that need to take place over some time. 00:21:37
Considerable deliberation because they create huge changes. When you're talking about entitlement changing, those are serious. 00:21:41
But but I think those are certainly. 00:21:50
Things we can always be looking at to consider. 00:21:52
In doing our job. 00:21:56
I. 00:21:59
Throw these into a mix in a. 00:22:01
Application situation, but rather we can use history. 00:22:05
To educate our future. 00:22:09
But I I hate. 00:22:12
Muddy the water when we're talking about specific applications. 00:22:14
For entitlements that are currently on the books. 00:22:19
If that makes sense, yeah. 00:22:25
My only I understand what you're saying is I. 00:22:28
I mean, from my standpoint, I would not want to consider. 00:22:33
Just to. 00:22:38
Appease A singular zone application because the public is upset about the fact that it's being redeveloped. But. 00:22:41
If staff is basically saying that there's some. 00:22:49
Justification in re looking at the. 00:22:54
Or zones. Maybe even C1 or C2. 00:22:59
Where we have a lot of these. 00:23:04
Strips that abut residential areas. Is there justification to have staff look at some of those and see if this form based code? 00:23:07
Could be a way to better transition some of those heights into the neighborhood. 00:23:15
I would be. 00:23:21
Open to that. And if the applicant has basically said, which I understand they have, we've had some conversations with the 00:23:23
applicants to say we think. 00:23:27
We think we could make that work inside of a development agreement. 00:23:32
And then let and then refer back to staff and back to the Planning Commission to take a look at it more broadly. It doesn't hold 00:23:37
up this application. 00:23:41
It meets some of those, some of those. I don't know what would come out of the study. The study may come back and say. 00:23:48
Now we think it ought to be 32 feet or we think, no, it's fine the way it is or whatever, in which case we've got a development 00:23:54
agreement in place that we have to honor. 00:23:58
But if. 00:24:03
If it keeps the peace in the neighborhood, while we have time to look at it more broadly, if there's justification that I'm for 00:24:05
it, I would need staff to tell me there's some. 00:24:10
You do think there may be some justification in referring this back down and taking a look at it citywide in terms of the PO zone 00:24:16
and maybe if we want to look at C1 and C2, whatever you guys think? 00:24:22
I would be open to that discussion. That's all I'm saying. 00:24:28
Yeah, this kind of becomes the history that you're talking about, Paul, right? That makes us look at like this, this instance and 00:24:31
it being brought to our attention is what creates that. But I don't want to presume. 00:24:36
A response or presume an answer to that question. 00:24:43
Already as far as changing the change, well as far as this application and as far as what would be the contents of a development 00:24:47
agreement. 00:24:52
Because I'm not sure that we know all the details of what this theoretical development agreement would be. 00:24:57
Well, theoretically I think we kind of do, don't we haven't we talked about what we think would be all the parameters. We've 00:25:05
talked about, you know, grading the height, but do we have the specific specifics of that? Do we also have the specifics regarding 00:25:10
if there's going to be any change in set back? 00:25:14
No, my understanding isn't Kerry. You'll tell me if I'm wrong the way, the way I understand, the way a potential motion may be 00:25:20
drafted is to say. 00:25:25
The 10 foot front back remains the. 00:25:30
The 40 foot He. 00:25:33
Entitlement remains the same. Back to. 00:25:36
Halfway back on the property line, the 30 foot set back remains the same. 00:25:40
There's a 20 foot set back off of Sycamore, right? Which? 00:25:44
Now is that I'm not clear on on that set back is what would be the set back under APO zone application? 00:25:48
For a PO zone next to a residential zone, it's a 30 foot set back. It's an additional. 00:25:55
So in an RM zone, it's just 20 foot? No, no, I mean on Sycamore to the side set on the side, on the West side, yes, so. 00:26:04
Corner set back is 20 feet. OK, so the only the only thing that's the same as whether it was RM or PO is the same 20 foot. OK, so 00:26:15
the way I'm reading. 00:26:21
A potential development agreement. 00:26:27
The only change that would be made, as far as I could tell, at least in this development agreement, would be. 00:26:31
Saying look what we would like, what we would like is a is a 5 foot reduction in height. 00:26:36
From 40 to 35. 00:26:44
At the 50%? 00:26:46
Line in the in the width of the property. 00:26:48
Right. The 30 foot set back remains the same. The 20 foot set back remains the same. 00:26:52
The 10 foot set back remains the same from Murray Holiday Rd. So the only thing that changes is. 00:26:57
A drop down in height from 40 to 35 feet. At the halfway point, it just tapers it from 40 to 35 back into there, but that's it. 00:27:03
Which is the same thing. 00:27:07
Guidance wise, we would refer back to the Planning Commission and staff to take a look at more broadly citywide. 00:27:13
Right, that's what the way I'm considering it anyway. 00:27:22
Yeah, that's consistent with what I understand as well. 00:27:26
Is there something on that, Paul? 00:27:29
Well, are all parties already known to agree to that? Well, let's do this, Kerry, sorry to keep you on the spot, but we're going 00:27:32
to continue the public hearing in a minute. But the applicant is here. Would you like to? 00:27:38
Speak to it. 00:27:45
We don't want to put words in your mouth. 00:27:49
Come on, up the podium. 00:27:53
So first of all, I want to thank the neighbors because everybody's been very very. 00:27:56
Cooperative and there hasn't been nobody's yelled, nobody's, you know, egged our building or anything. So I'd like to thank David 00:28:02
and our neighbors. 00:28:07
For, you know, being. 00:28:12
Neighbors. 00:28:15
We, after I discussed this with my partners, we had agreed. 00:28:17
That rather than going. 00:28:24
On the, so the concept of the 50%. 00:28:27
In the P. 00:28:32
With a 40 foot height, we had agreed. 00:28:34
That a 50%, you know halfway up the lot line. So we think of it as 4 quadrants. We have the South quadrants on 2051 and 2061, we 00:28:38
have the North quadrants which about the neighbor. 00:28:45
So on the South. 00:28:54
We think. 00:28:56
Whatever the PO zone allows, the 40 foot, the 10 foot. 00:28:57
Set back the 40 foot height. 00:29:01
Should be allowed. We had agreed that. 00:29:04
For the North Quadrants. 00:29:08
If we the concept is if we wanted to build office. 00:29:10
It would be limited. 00:29:16
To 32. 00:29:18
On the north quadrant, if we build residential, it would be 35 feet. 00:29:21
Now with respect to the whether it's a 20 foot set back or a 30 foot set back at that point. 00:29:25
We're flexible. 00:29:31
But I would think if you. 00:29:33
If you drop the height that you could tighten the set back. 00:29:35
30 feet and. 00:29:39
32 or 35 so if we were to build more office. 00:29:42
It would be a 32 foot, we would agree. 00:29:46
If it's. 00:29:49
Multifamily or residential, it would be 35 feet. 00:29:50
And the set back would be. 00:29:54
Variable Either 20 or 30, Yeah. I mean, I don't know how the other council members feel. I'm not. 00:29:57
Really open to. 00:30:03
Messing around with the set back. 00:30:05
The 30 foot set back. 00:30:08
To shorten that. 00:30:11
No, I think that was put in place for a reason because it was a budding residential. And I don't want to shorten that up because I 00:30:14
think that'll just create a whole other can of worms that we're going to have to deal with, right. 00:30:19
So I think the development agreement could say if it's gonna be and if it's a 30 foot set back, it's a 30 foot set back, but if 00:30:25
it's if we're gonna build office. 00:30:29
Drop it to 32 feet if we're going to build residential 35 feet. 00:30:33
And that could be done in the development agreement. 00:30:38
I would, I mean so, but I mean I think what we're talking about is 35 feet because that's what allowed in the current room 00:30:41
entitlement, right. Whether you do office or residential will dictate whether you have conditions put on the if it's residential 00:30:47
they'll be, there'll be, it'll be conditional. 00:30:53
At that, you know, whereas in the traditional PO rezone you would be entitled to 40 feet on on that piece right there. So there's 00:31:31
a concession that you're making there and I would hope and think that that would be viewed favorably by all parties I guess. 00:31:39
Yeah. Whether you do under that scenario then wouldn't matter whether it was office or right. If you do, if you do office, it's an 00:31:48
entitled use under the zone. If you do residential, it's going to require conditional use that has to go back to neighbor. So 00:31:53
that's. 00:31:58
Except, you know. So that's where I'm at too, is. 00:32:04
I'm OK on just 35 feet because that's what didn't tile in the room zone, which you have right now, right. And the only other issue 00:32:08
is I think Carrie, I don't. 00:32:12
Want to doubt your measurements, but at 50% on the West side. 00:32:17
It cuts 4 feet off of our plan. 00:32:22
If you go 50 feet on the east side and go straight across. 00:32:25
Then that would. 00:32:28
That would cover the building that we've proposed. 00:32:30
Drawing a 50% line, yeah. If you draw a 50% line, it actually it actually goes. 00:32:34
Up because 2061 is deeper than 2051. 00:32:40
But if we went off 50% off of 2061 and came straight across. 00:32:45
That would cover the building that we proposed. 00:32:50
At least the way I measured it. 00:32:54
At 50% of 2061, the boundary between 2061 and our neighbor David. 00:32:58
If you went straight across there as opposed. 00:33:04
An angled line, 50% on this lot and 50% on that. 00:33:08
Property. 00:33:12
Then you've got it. 00:33:13
The proposed building off by about 3 feet, 4 feet. 00:33:15
So anyway. 00:33:19
50% is fine if it's measured. 00:33:21
2061 as opposed to 2050. 00:33:24
That makes it tricky. Probably you've got a straight line as opposed to. I think we'd leave that to the Planning Commission. 00:33:27
And because at that point, if you're talking about the development agreement, which is not the Planning Commission, it's well, but 00:33:36
it would be in the development agreement. He may have to change his plan if he's going to go in for conditional use to put in 00:33:40
residential and. 00:33:44
You know I don't want to get into doing a site plan review here as part of a development agreement, right? 00:33:48
So what you're saying is that 50% as planned, 50% wouldn't do the job on that West side? 00:33:56
But if it's on the east side and you go straight across. 00:34:04
Well, I'm not familiar enough with how. 00:34:10
These development agreements are crafted. 00:34:14
And and and what we really even do in a case like this. I'm really familiar with it, I'm sure. 00:34:17
So. 00:34:24
Because his building as it's proposing, correct me if I'm wrong, Kerry, it looks to me like it's going to straddle the lot lines 00:34:26
of 2051 and 2061. So we'll have to do a lot consolidation before he ever builds anything. 00:34:31
At that point we would be measuring. 00:34:37
The depth of the lot, the the new consolidated lot. 00:34:40
However, it is and if it goes on an. 00:34:45
I'm not sure what that measurement will entail. Right? So. 00:34:48
I can't tell you tonight. 00:34:53
If we know the parameter of what that would look like and if it would cut. 00:34:55
3 feet of his proposed building or if it would fit. Yeah, that's something I don't know right now. 00:35:00
But I think you'd be talking about the consolidated lot between 2051 and 2061. 00:35:05
And your depth measurement is not going to be taken solely from one or the other. Now it's going to be from the aggregated, the 00:35:11
center point on an E line and the center point on the West line and or something like that. Probably it's probably going to be 00:35:17
taken from the aggregated lot, yeah. So these are some of the nitty gritty, dirty details. 00:35:22
That arc would be used in part of our education. 00:35:28
For future potential changes to our zones. 00:35:32
But I'm it it. 00:35:37
Muddies the water. 00:35:39
In a currently active. 00:35:41
Zone Application change. 00:35:43
And as I go back to some of the discussions it had previously. 00:35:47
I had the banana split analogy. 00:35:52
Even though his current properties look like 2 little ice cream cone cups, he's already entitled to the full banana split under 00:35:56
the RM zone. 00:36:00
The change from Room to PO is swapping cherries on top for walnuts. 00:36:04
And that changes. 00:36:09
Additional 5 feet height. 00:36:12
Towards the Murray Holiday Rd. in exchange for 10, an additional 10 feet of set back as a buffer on the backside. So these were 00:36:14
the concessions. They're already designed into the PO zone when you want to go from RM to PO when you're already in an RM zone 00:36:21
that's already grandfathered in professional office use. And so I think these sorts of. 00:36:29
Buffers. 00:36:36
Are already baked in to the PO zone. 00:36:38
And so now we're talking. 00:36:41
Potential further concessions which we can certainly talk about, but I think those are. 00:36:44
Longer, more contemplative discussions that happen. 00:36:49
As a general matter of policy, not with regard to specific zone applications. 00:36:53
So I'm uncomfortable with dirtying the water about all these potential changes in zoning parameters. 00:36:59
In the middle of a specific discussion about what's a fairly small ask. Granted, the potential change you're going to do is 00:37:08
significant, but the ask of this council from RM to PO. 00:37:15
It's teeny tiny. It's walnuts for cherries on top. 00:37:22
So I'm OK with exploring all these. 00:37:28
Possibilities, but I'm uncomfortable. 00:37:31
Doing them rush. 00:37:33
And in the context of a specific zone application. 00:37:35
OK, so. 00:37:41
We might call you back up, but I don't want to make you stand up there and get grilled. 00:37:44
I think you know, for those out there that are. 00:37:51
That are probably confused by this whole discussion and probably now are getting very hungry hearing about the ice cream sundae. 00:37:54
I think what we're going to work our way into is what's before the council right now is a rezone application that we can either 00:38:03
vote on to approve a rezone from an RM to a PO. 00:38:09
We can deny that rezone application. 00:38:15
We can. 00:38:19
Approve. 00:38:22
Rezone application with a development agreement restriction that puts. 00:38:25
Some minor restrictions on that PO zone, which is what we were just talking about, maybe dropping the north piece down by 5 feet 00:38:30
to help keep peace in the neighborhood. 00:38:36
While we refer this back to the Planning Commission and the staff to take a broader look at the justification for that long term 00:38:43
or we could continue this. 00:38:48
And get a better comfort level with the development agreement discussion. 00:38:55
At our next council meeting or council meeting down the road, my understanding from the applicants is there's not. 00:39:02
Massive hurry, hurry to this. Is that correct or not correct we have. 00:39:08
OK. 00:39:13
All right. So that's kind of where we're at right now. So that is hopefully that clears things up a little bit and with that. 00:39:14
The public hearing is still open, we heard. 00:39:21
We had eight e-mail application or 8 e-mail comments at the last council meeting. We have another. 00:39:25
E-mail comment from Amanda Richards at 2061 Delmont Drive. 00:39:32
Who is opposed to this rezone application? 00:39:38
If there are people we have not heard from that are here that want to address the Council. 00:39:44
Now is the time we ask you to keep it to 3 minutes or less. 00:39:48
And please state your name and address. 00:39:52
My name is David Dean and I and my wife Diane are the owners of a duplex contiguous to the subject property on the East. 00:39:58
At 2071 to 2073 Murray Holiday Rd. 00:40:07
We've lived there for 31 years and occupied the duplex on one side as our primary residence. The other side our daughter rents 00:40:11
from us. 00:40:15
I represent. 00:40:21
Two of the other three contiguous property owners. So I hope I'd have maybe possibly have more than 3 minutes, but by I'll hurry 00:40:24
as fast as I can You have 5. Thanks. So I also represent Mike and Eileen Stone who live at 2050. 00:40:32
Delmont. 00:40:42
Which is immediately north of the subject on the corner of Sycamore and Delmont. 00:40:43
And then I also represent Kay Reid, who is here and will probably want to make her own comments. 00:40:49
We had a meeting this morning and made an agreement that I would just represent ourselves, the the contiguous owners, all but one 00:40:55
who's not here. So there are 4 contiguous owners, I represent 3 total. 00:41:02
We just quickly our preference would be that as the general plan states that a small area master plan be developed for this 00:41:11
holiday half mile area. 00:41:17
That we're talking about between the old Cottonwood Mall property. 00:41:23
And the holiday village that calls the master plan calls it the Holiday Half Mile and it's in the in the master plan it says that 00:41:27
a small area master plan should be developed for this area. 00:41:33
And I think the discussion that we've had here kind. 00:41:39
Proves that that that probably is would have been a good idea to to have done years ago when it was recommended. 00:41:43
So that issues of zoning, aesthetics, you know, a uniform building, construction style, whatever that would make tie this area 00:41:51
together which we're in favor of in making this holiday half mile area a special zone within the city. 00:41:58
But it sounds like from staff that that that process is probably too long and cumbersome, so. 00:42:07
In lieu of. 00:42:13
We are in agreement with the zone change application, but only with the conditions as stipulated in the Staffs current Council 00:42:15
staff memorandum dated today, which I copied out of the. 00:42:23
Packet for your meeting, so I presume it's it's up. 00:42:31
And specifically that the concept in application on this proposal section be adopted. 00:42:35
And there are five. There are five items in there. The three most important to us is height is allowed at 40 feet. This is page 00:42:42
two of the memorandum. Height is allowed at 40 feet within 50% of the lots depth. 00:42:50
Height beyond 50% of the lot's depth within the established building corridor shall be 32 feet. 00:42:58
This was staff's recommendation in this memorandum and that's what we we agreed to and would hope that the council would agree to 00:43:05
and then item 5 buffering set back remains at 30 feet and that that be an absolute. 00:43:12
And then as to lower down under suggested motions that the city and developer by a date not more than 90 days from this date, 00:43:20
approve a development agreement. That and it lists two things. 00:43:27
That it comply basically with the 50% rule and the 40 foot and the 32 foot. 00:43:34
Step down and that the setback for the building be 10 feet from the front property line on Murray holiday. 00:43:40
And then, importantly, the last paragraph, we ask via condition, and that is that the Council direct staff to initiate a proposed 00:43:47
amendment for the PPO zone to enact a height requirement for the zone that is consistent with the intent of this motion. 00:43:55
So we again three of the four contiguous owners are in agreement with the zone change on those conditions. So that would be my 00:44:04
comment here. Thank you very much. Thanks. Appreciate that. Can I ask you one question? 00:44:10
We were talking about how the. 00:44:18
The lot sizes are not identical and have varying widths and and so drawing the midpoint is going to be. 00:44:20
Not as straightforward as as as if they were just squares or rectangles. 00:44:29
Are you OK with a generous interpretation of that 50% where that line is where he has to drop down? OK again, again, speaking for 00:44:35
the group that I represent, I I can't. I can't answer that because I'd have to consult with them, so I'd only be speaking for 00:44:41
myself in this case. 00:44:46
I think a logical interpretation of that you know something that makes sense. 00:44:53
I would agree to you know something that seemed that that that would be fair. I don't know if it would represent a the 50% you 00:44:59
know being a percentage he's we've talked about combining the parcels which is necessary. So I don't know if that would mean an 00:45:06
average. So if you if you take the point at which the 2061 property is 50%. 00:45:13
And you take the point at which the 2051 parcel is at 50% and maybe you have that, you know you take that in half. 00:45:21
And you establish the new midpoint in the lot. Something like that makes sense to me personally, but I can't speak for the others. 00:45:30
Did I answer your question? I think so and so, so, So I think I think a reasonable interpretation by staff makes sense to me in 00:45:39
this, in this situation I think yeah, because the the when down the road when we're talking about a manual zone, we've got a 00:45:46
little be a little bit precise, but perhaps Todd, we can be flexible and when we're at the development agreement stage of a 00:45:52
particular lot situation, is that fair to say? 00:45:59
I think it is in this case. 00:46:07
OK. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Dean. Appreciate. 00:46:10
I am Kay Reed. 00:46:24
Part of that, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry you get your name. 00:46:27
2070 Delmont. 00:46:33
I just wanted to say that having. 00:46:36
I had this memorandum earlier today and was able to read it, and I agree. 00:46:39
That I will not oppose the zoning as long as these stipulations are agreed to. 00:46:45
And I also did speak. 00:46:52
Amanda Richards. 00:46:55
She also was on a phone call that we had this morning about this and and she agrees to this. 00:46:56
So we want to work with with Mr. Helston, you know, we don't want to have any arguments or anything, but we we do want to make 00:47:05
what is best for. 00:47:10
The community and for Mr. Helston. 00:47:16
And I just want to thank you for listening to our concerns. 00:47:21
Concerns from the residents of this great city that we have thank you thank you. 00:47:25
Alan Gibson, 28 Zero E Elmont Drive. 00:47:46
So I'm. 00:47:50
Just north of the Viewmont traffic light through that business. 00:47:52
That's right, there is where my house. 00:47:56
So I get to see the traffic light and all the cars backed up through my back. 00:47:58
Anyway, the thing that I see a little bit missing, I don't know if this is too early in the process or not, but is this traffic in 00:48:03
general through the neighborhood? And then parking in reference to that is if you know where that dentist, new dentist office that 00:48:09
went up on Murray Holiday Rd. 00:48:15
Across the street is Holly Lane when that first went up. 00:48:21
Cars started parking right there on Holly Lane. 00:48:25
Which turned it into. 00:48:28
With cars on both sides of the road, you only can go one car at a time in either direction. 00:48:30
With cars parked on the side. 00:48:37
The owner of the dentist office, He. 00:48:40
Got rid of that tenant, whoever was extra in with. 00:48:42
And so that helped clear that up. Then I think the city did no parking signs. 00:48:46
So I'm just. 00:48:51
What is going to be the parking situation? 00:48:52
We don't want too many. 00:48:56
Such that they start flood. 00:48:59
Into the neighborhood like you see over on. 00:49:00
Laney Lane over here. 00:49:03
If you have ever, I don't know if you guys have driven down Laney Lane. 00:49:05
It's cars on both sides and you got. 00:49:09
Wait for the other car if it's a busy time of the day. 00:49:11
I think that would be part of site plan review, correct? 00:49:15
Is just parking overflow and. 00:49:19
Just how many cars are there, you know? 00:49:23
There, and I think if there's enough parking spots, that will alleviate some of the problem. But then there's other neighbors that 00:49:25
don't want any cars there and stuff, but keep the speed bumps. So I think that keeps out a lot of people. 00:49:31
That are non neighborhood people out of the neighborhood. 00:49:38
OK. Thank you. Thank you. 00:49:41
Anybody else? 00:49:50
OK, well, first let me thank the residents and and the applicant for. 00:49:54
Civility. Sometimes these things can get a little. 00:50:01
And so I appreciate you all trying to be civil with each other and work, work through a work towards a compromise. So and with 00:50:05
that I'm going to close the public hearing. 00:50:09
On this particular rezone application, I think we know what the options are, it seems like. 00:50:15
We may have an opportunity with the development agreement if we can clarify that 50% piece, but Ty, I don't know if you want to 00:50:19
take it from here and see if you can. 00:50:24
Get us to work towards emotion. So yeah, I guess back to kind of Paul's point, I think it's when issues like this arise that we. 00:50:28
It's that healthy pushback maybe that helps us look at and reevaluate and continually be watching how things evolve overtime to 00:50:39
see if if zones that we have as defined or are appropriate in that. 00:50:45
In this case it's unearthed. I guess three things in my mind that I that I see #1 is that. 00:50:53
There is some question because I don't know that we've had there are POP. The PO zone is a relatively new zone. 00:51:01
And not all of the PO zone reapplication or applications that we've had have abutted residential. And so it's it's raised this 00:51:07
issue that I think is a valid issue of whether or not we've we've got the height right as it transitions towards the residence. 00:51:15
The other is this issue of the C2 zone specifically and maybe C1 because as I understand that those zones have been as they are 00:51:25
for a long time and there's some question as to whether or not with current building practices and that that that's the right 00:51:30
height. 00:51:34
And then the third one is the small area master plan that. 00:51:39
That, yes, was recommended at one point and unfortunately I think that maybe the the thing there is that in this next year we've 00:51:44
budgeted, we're planning to. 00:51:48
To look at and review the the general plan. And so this is. 00:51:53
I think this accentuates the the importance of looking at that as far as. 00:51:58
As far as being able to put forward a motion on this, I guess the one thing that's lingering right now at this point is this 32 00:52:05
versus 35 foot height difference. 00:52:10
And it sounds. 00:52:15
And this is a tough one, right? Because as it stands to Paul's point, the existing entitlement is for 35 feet up to 20 feet from 00:52:18
those back, excuse me, those those back residences, which is pretty close and pretty tall compared to. 00:52:26
33 more feet, 10 feet further back. 00:52:36
And so I don't know that I'm comfortable putting forward a motion not knowing if that would even accommodate. You know, what I 00:52:39
don't want to do is put forward a motion for some type of a development agreement, not knowing if it's something that both parties 00:52:45
are going to be happy with, I guess. 00:52:51
Or find agreeable. And so I'm not in a place where I want you know I know that hunting isn't something that we necessarily want to 00:52:58
kick in the can down the road is something necessarily want to do. But I if we were to explore, this is my take. If we were to 00:53:03
explore doing some type of a development agreement, I I don't think we tonight would be the night to put forward what that is 00:53:09
based off of those two unknowns. 00:53:14
And so. 00:53:22
Of our other options. 00:53:23
I guess. 00:53:25
I'm definitely interested in prioritizing the small area master plan. I want to make staff clear on that. I think that's 00:53:27
important. I definitely want to have the C2 zone reevaluated and I think that this merits looking at the PO zone. I you know I 00:53:35
wasn't here in 2018. And So what we don't know is how much that was contemplated you know in the in these infill areas that are 00:53:42
right next to the residential for PO if that was specifically contemplated the 40 feet at a 30 foot set back so. 00:53:49
So I don't. 00:53:59
I'm not opposed. 00:54:01
Is is that an option then at this point where the public hearing is closed, but we could delay until? 00:54:03
The March, What is it? March 7th meeting? Yeah. 00:54:10
March 7th meeting and potentially have a development agreement for that. 00:54:15
Otherwise and can I just ask a question, So in that meeting we would have that we would have that 32 and 35 number solidified to 00:54:19
make sure that that would resolve concerns from all parties, right? 00:54:24
Because I feel like both the residents and the developer really. 00:54:31
A lot on their own and with the help of the staff report and everything are working together towards a compromise and I hate to 00:54:35
stand in the way of that, but I hate to rush it as well And so it seems like what you're saying is let's. 00:54:40
Let's allow them and us the time to make sure that what we're creating really does what everybody is wanting it to do. Is that is 00:54:45
that right? OK. 00:54:49
Much more succinct way of saying that. I can see Todd getting ready to weigh in. I just have a clarifying question from your 00:54:54
staff's perspective. 00:54:58
I don't know that I understand the concern over the 32 to 35 feet. I understand that there was some concern over how we would 00:55:03
measure the lot depth. 00:55:07
In the proposal that's in the staff report now, but I don't understand the height. My understanding was that the that the 00:55:13
applicant was hoping to do a parking structure with two two levels above. 00:55:18
And that he needs their 35 to hit that. 00:55:24
And the current entitlement is 35 at RM, right? Right. So we're already asking, but you know, my question would be. 00:55:27
The 32 foot notwithstanding, what's an appropriate height level? 00:55:37
For what we contemplate in this zone going forward, and I can't support 32 feet, I agree. I I see, Mr. Dean, where your neighbors 00:55:43
are coming from, but that's a residential height. 00:55:49
And there's an entitled 35 foot height right now with a 30 foot set back which is 10 feet greater than AC2 set back. 00:55:55
And so I think going below 35 feet is just I. 00:56:03
I probably won't be supportive of that. I think 35 feet is a great compromise. I think it's a great. 00:56:09
Start point to move back out to the broader. 00:56:16
Broader zone. Look, I don't, I can't imagine that the Planning Commission is going to come back and say it's going to be 32 feet. 00:56:21
When it's 35 feet in C1 and C2, so 35 feet is not an issue. That's not an issue for me. That's where I'm going to be. The only 00:56:28
question I have is this. 00:56:33
Question of the 50% as it? 00:56:39
Crosses along those two lots and how we take care of that in a development agreement, That's the only question I have. And I would 00:56:42
be in favor of a development agreement that clarifies that and I'd be willing to vote on it tonight. As a matter of fact, I. 00:56:48
And then pushing it, pushing it back to staff. 00:56:56
32 feet to me is. 00:56:59
That's a good. That's a good point. Yeah, that's the issue of whether we've in voting tonight is that those details have not been 00:57:01
decided. 00:57:05
Well, it could be in a boat. It could be Can we decide? 00:57:11
So but but. 00:57:14
Do we, when we when we add a motion to include a development agreement? 00:57:16
We get really specific about those details. Is that part of the motion and development agreement or just subject to a development 00:57:20
agreement and it's assumed it will work out the details or what needs to be included in the motion when you bring up a development 00:57:27
agreement. I think the motion that's in the staff report has enough detail to write the development agreement, but in the staff 00:57:34
report it says the 32 feet. So we would need to amend change that to the 35, why was the staff report 32 feet as opposed to 35? 00:57:40
I think that was the resident. It was just aligning with the residential height to the rear. To the north it was to align with the 00:57:49
residential height. 00:57:53
Another consideration on those as you're looking at the 50% lot depth, if you're increasing your rear set back and then also 00:57:59
limiting height from 50% back, that's a pretty that can be a pretty narrow area that you have a. 00:58:07
Building within. 00:58:16
So you may want to maybe increase. 00:58:17
The depth of the where you draw that line somehow. That would be another potential detail. 00:58:22
Just for seeing that 30? 00:58:30
30 foot set back, You're really limiting where a building can be. 00:58:32
Carrie, Carrie, before you sit down at the end of the staff report it talks about. 00:58:38
In addition, by the motion the city, the City Council would direct the staff to initiate a proposed amendment. 00:58:43
With a height requirement that's consistent with the intent of this motion. 00:58:49
And I'm just wondering what that means consistent with the intent of this motion. Does that mean 35 feet throughout the? 00:58:53
The ozone, yeah. The intent of the motion is to. 00:59:01
Look at contextual based zoning regulations how you can change. 00:59:06
Different regulations within your zoning. 00:59:13
That is context based next to residential zones closer to St. side. 00:59:17
So it might mean something different than 32 or 35. It could be different depending on the zone. Sometimes you might have a small 00:59:23
area master plan that might guide some additional details, but I. 00:59:29
That's the intent of the emotion is to look at. 00:59:37
Some of those more flexible. 00:59:42
Context based ZON. 00:59:45
And just to be clear that the develop. 00:59:47
The development of the development agreement doesn't establish any precedent With respect to what? 00:59:50
Staff or their Planning Commissioner? 00:59:57
Council would do with the zone amount changes to the zoning. It's just unique to this parcel essentially. 00:59:59
Yeah, where there's, there's mud and interpretation. Now still with the. 01:00:06
Assumed motion. 01:00:12
Is how that 50% lot line gets drawn. That's the only question I have. Can I as it relates to that motion? Can I speak freely Sir? 01:00:14
What I hear from Carrie is some concern about developing that 50% measurement. 01:00:27
In a way. 01:00:33
That, I guess, considers the set back fairly and doesn't set us up to fail with this particular applicant. 01:00:35
And so as opposed to going ahead with a motion tonight. 01:00:43
I would recommend that the Council continue this matter and allow us to explore that with the applicant more clearly, so that if 01:00:47
we bring you back. 01:00:51
A development agreement proposal on this particular lot, it makes more sense and we know that we've got agreement from both 01:00:56
parties and we're not stuck with an ordinance that's been adopted that's conditioned on a development agreement and then the 01:01:02
failure to handle the enter the development agreement puts us in limbo. I'd rather have that secured. 01:01:08
That makes sense to me, yeah. 01:01:14
Todd, another question to you would would an acceptable development agreement, could you just limit a? 01:01:17
Secondary. 01:01:26
Must be residential next door residential zone or. 01:01:28
You You could, but that's a discussion I'd rather have with the applicant outside of the meeting like this, so. 01:01:32
It's just a little I hate negotiating in a public meeting. It just doesn't make sense and it doesn't produce the best results most 01:01:39
of the time. 01:01:42
OK. So it sounds like we're working towards a development agreement that's going to that hopefully results in a good compromise 01:01:46
between the developer and the. 01:01:51
Residents that abut this development at the same time. 01:01:57
Some pretty good guidance to. 01:02:01
To look at this more broadly, we're sorry for the delay, but this is kind of an important issue and the fact that the the 01:02:04
applicant is not in a huge hurry, I think we're better off taking a little bit more time and getting it right. 01:02:10
And having apologized for delaying it, I'm going to have to apologize again by saying we're really probably push this to March 7 01:02:16
because Councilmember Brewer is not going to be available on the 15th. And I think he needs to be here for that discussion. Except 01:02:24
now that's OK Do we need a motion on that? I would like a motion that's specific to continue it to the March 7th meeting. Can I 01:02:31
just say one thing there? This is, this is the political science professor in me. I I think that everyone should recognize. 01:02:39
What is happening here in a really wonderful way, when we get really cynical about politics and government in our society today, 01:02:48
that we have seen residents whose lives are going to be greatly impacted, developer who's trying to be? 01:02:54
Develop something that's going to provide a financial benefit to him. Come together and work together in a way that is remarkable 01:03:01
considering our society today with respect and mutual understanding and trying to understand each others needs and then council 01:03:10
members who have spent a lot of extra time trying to not only understand the issues as well as staff's. 01:03:18
To really come up with what's the best result for property owners in our community and I would just say that that is. 01:03:28
That's what government can be and should be and that's what our communities can be and should be. And I think that's one of the 01:03:36
wonderful things that we have living in the City of holiday with our public services. 01:03:41
Leaders and our staff and the people that we represent. 01:03:47
With that there, I'll move that we postpone this issue of this proposed rezone for 2051 and 2061 E Marie Holiday Blvd. To the 01:03:54
March 7th meeting and hopefully have that be sufficient time to. 01:04:00
Pin down the details of a development agreement. 01:04:07
Go to that point. 01:04:10
Second, OK, we have a motion to continue to March 7th. 01:04:12
2nd from Council Member Fotheringham would go to vote Council Member Brewer. Yes, Councilmember Graham. 01:04:17
Yes, Durham. Durham. 01:04:23
Promoted again, put a large shadow. That guy had a deal. 01:04:28
Did we get a Yes. 01:04:33
Elsewhere fathering him. Yes. That's Member Quinn. Yes. Councilmember Gray, yes. And chair about Jeff. Sorry about that. 01:04:35
OK. Thank you. So this will be continued and on the agenda. 01:04:43
On March 7th, but the public hearing is closed at this point. 01:04:49
All right. 01:04:54
Thank you everybody. 01:04:56
The second time I've done that to you. 01:04:58
All right. 01:05:03
Item number six on the agenda is the amended Ordinance 2024-01. This is repealing Chapter 7. This, this is kind of. 01:05:07
Just to clean up on something that was on a prior agenda. Yeah, can I? 01:05:15
Explain our offense gave you a defective enacting ordinance when you adopted this a couple of weeks ago. 01:05:19
It repealed and re established the appropriate subdivision chapter, but it didn't account for all the other text amendments. 01:05:26
That were part of the packet that were reviewed by the Council and the planning. 01:05:33
That were fully disclosed but not related in the enacting ordinance. So this fixes that defect. 01:05:37
Any questions from council? 01:05:49
Mr. Mayor, I move approval of Amendment Ordinance 2024-01. 01:05:52
Regarding Chapter 10 of Title 13 of the City code. 01:05:58
2nd. 01:06:02
OK, we have a motion and a second. Any discussion of the motion. 01:06:04
Council Member Brewer, Yes. Council Member Durham, Yes Council Member Fotheringham, Yes. Councilmember Quinn Yes Councilmember 01:06:08
Gray and Chair Vote yes. 01:06:12
Those changes are approved. Thank you. OK, we're on item number seven, item B. So I have the quarterly report 1st and then a 01:06:17
discussion on vigilant cameras from Chief Hoyle. 01:06:22
Thank you. I don't know if it will be OK or appropriate to ask if we could move the vigilante cameras to ahead of my quarterly 01:06:30
report. I've got Lieutenant Taylor from our Technical Service division and want to get him home to his family and he's our subject 01:06:34
matter expert on that, if that's appropriate to ask. 01:06:38
He's well educated on PO rezone applications too. He can take that. 01:06:43
I don't think we need a motion on that. I think you just bring him up. OK. Thank you. So what we want to talk about with you guys 01:06:51
tonight is vigilant cameras. If you recall roughly about a year ago, we had talked a little bit about the flock cameras. As an 01:06:56
organization, we are stepping away from that philosophy. The flock cameras are moving towards a vigilant camera. Many of our other 01:07:01
precincts are. 01:07:06
With that, I'll ask James to come up and talk to you a little bit about this program. 01:07:43
And what the benefits it could bring to us as a precinct as well? 01:07:48
Thanks for having me. That was a better intro than I could give myself, but I'm James Taylor with our technical. 01:07:55
Services Div. 01:08:02
The reason why this falls in this purview is because the previous Lieutenant that was over the flock system that we were using 01:08:04
with Unified Police Department. 01:08:08
Is who I replaced so. 01:08:13
We have found that the vigilance system is a better system and so. 01:08:17
Or give you a little bit of specifics about why we're switching. And I know that there were some concerns about security and 01:08:22
surveillance of citizens and all all that sort of stuff. And so I want to. 01:08:28
Explain a little bit to you, give you a little bit of background what we see when we run something and. 01:08:34
So you just have a little bit more information. It's not just some company? 01:08:41
Given their sales. 01:08:45
A little bit about license plate readers is all the information I've gotten from both companies I went out and verified myself I 01:08:49
didn't just take their word for. 01:08:53
Because they're all out to sell something and there was a lot of misinformation out there. 01:08:59
Part of the reason why we went with flock safety in the initial piece was. 01:09:04
One of our other technological partners is Axon. They do our body cams and our evidence storage, our digital evidence storage. 01:09:09
They paid for the one year pilot with the other company and so free is a good way to test for a year. And we actually do like 01:09:17
their interface, but there's some reasons why we switched to Vigilant and when I'm talking about license plate readers. 01:09:25
They're referred to as automatic license plate readers or just license plate readers or LPRS. So they're referred to as both 01:09:34
things. And what we're really talking about here are the standalone versions. 01:09:39
And these are, as you can see from the pictures there, they are attached to a pole. They're fixed in a fixed location. We've had 01:09:45
vehicle license plate readers for years and years and they drive around and look for stolen cars and. 01:09:52
Utah has used those for quite some time. Our traffic officers have used them for years. 01:10:01
But the standalone license plate readers are a new concept to Utah. 01:10:07
And this is basically their form factor. They're about the size of a soda can with a little solar panel if you need a solar panel. 01:10:12
To keep them running so they're pretty low profile. 01:10:20
But all they do is collect. 01:10:24
This vehicle goes by. It just snaps a picture. If it detects there is a license plate within that picture, their algorithm, it 01:10:28
uploads it to a database and that's it. 01:10:33
And so how we access that is. 01:10:39
The part that you probably have concerns with and the storage and things like that, so if you could just scroll to the next page 01:10:42
there. 01:10:45
So a little bit about why UPD is using Vigilant. The other company raised their prices. So we want to be fiscally responsible with 01:10:50
our. 01:10:55
Public funds that we get, so that's a big piece. You never own the other ones, These ones you own after five years, obviously it's 01:11:00
a piece of electronics, so it might last 7-8 years, but at least. 01:11:07
You can own it at some some point. 01:11:15
The other company you have to pay if you want them moved. 01:11:20
And these this company, we could just move them ourselves. We're creating a group that of officers that would be trained in how to 01:11:23
move these. So if you have. 01:11:28
If you had an area that was being just inundated with crime, suddenly they could move those to that area so we could start to get 01:11:35
some investigative leads. 01:11:39
This network is larger. A lot of other agencies in the Valley are also switching to this company. The state is moving to this 01:11:45
company as well. This company is on the state contract. There is not. There's a lot of reasons why, but the biggest reason why we 01:11:52
want to switch to this other than the network is better and the database is better. 01:11:59
Is that this system is C just compliant. And what that means is that is our criminal justice information system. It's a federal 01:12:06
guideline for all criminal justice networks. 01:12:12
That store people's personal information. 01:12:18
System. Once you log in, it like never kicks you out. If I log into my computer and I click the tab, it's just up. 01:12:21
And which is not see just compliant. And so we'll talk a little bit more about that here in just a second. But while I was giving 01:12:29
this demonstration to our command staff, the box actually popped up on the system and said. 01:12:35
Due to C Just compliance, if you don't move your mouse in the next like 30 seconds, we're going to log you out. So. 01:12:42
For to protect our citizens information, it is more in compliance with our C Just rules. 01:12:49
The Utah Criminal Justice Information Network is usages and that's where we run all of our license plates and warrants and things 01:12:58
like that. So it's more in compliance with. 01:13:05
Those information networks. 01:13:11
And then there's some. 01:13:13
The other system only. 01:13:16
The database for 30 days, which is not state law, is 9 months before it drops off. 01:13:18
And the other one was only 30 days. 01:13:24
This, this network is just better all around. So that's why the Unified Police decided to. 01:13:26
And the commanders decided to switch. 01:13:32
To this company. 01:13:35
So if you go to the next slide. 01:13:37
As you can see, there's a lot of agencies that use this network. These are agencies, not cameras. 01:13:39
So you can This is not a new concept across the country, although it is new to Utah. 01:13:46
Stand alone license plate readers have really only started about a year, year and a half ago. 01:13:53
They changed the law prior to two years ago, had to have a federal Nexus to run. 01:13:58
License plate readers other than for stolen vehicles. 01:14:06
And so in my previous assignment, the major Investigations unit, we were attached to the US Marshals Task Force. So I've used 01:14:10
license plate readers for well over six years and it is probably one of the best investigative tools once you have any sort of 01:14:15
vehicle information. 01:14:20
And I'll show you why here in just a second. 01:14:26
You go to the next slide. 01:14:30
So the state law. There's only four reasons why we can even use license plate readers, and those are part of a criminal 01:14:33
investigation. 01:14:36
To apprehend an individual with an outstanding warrant, to locate a missing or endangered person, or to locate a stolen vehicle. 01:14:40
Is the only four reasons why law enforcement can use license plate read. 01:14:47
There are several other provisions where the government can use them and to collect tolls and parking fees and. 01:14:52
Access to buildings and things like that. But specific to law enforcement, there's only four. 01:15:00
For reasons, we can use. 01:15:05
So those are and. 01:15:09
The state law restrictions and 41 six a 2003 and subsection 3 there. 01:15:13
Is the law enforcement agency has to have a written policy regarding the use, management and auditing of the license plate reader 01:15:21
system and when they change the policy or change the state law we changed our policy in? 01:15:28
Conformed. 01:15:35
It was actually a new policy for us, but. 01:15:37
It conforms with the state law. The only other restriction is if it is on. 01:15:40
AU dot right of way you have to apply for a permit, but it's not like a permit you have to pay for. They just want to know where 01:15:47
they're at and then you have to post it on your website. 01:15:51
Or EU Dots website, so. 01:15:56
So depending on where they are, you may or may not have to get a permit. 01:15:59
And a big piece as far as the privacy goes if you go to the next slide. 01:16:04
Is the penalties and a person who knowingly or intentionally uses, obtains, or discloses captured license plate data in violation 01:16:09
of this part is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor? 01:16:15
So if any of our officers is misusing this found in an audit. 01:16:21
That they're running something they shouldn't, or lying about whether they're running it. 01:16:25
They would be. 01:16:29
Potential criminal charges, which is the same as all you see just. 01:16:32
When we log into our. 01:16:38
All of our systems so we can run vehicles as we're on duty. There's a disclaimer that any misuse of that you see just or see just 01:16:40
system is a Class B misdemeanor. So that conforms with. 01:16:46
The rest of the systems that we. 01:16:52
And the next slide here shows the audit inquiry. This is what an officer has to put in every time they run something. They have to 01:16:58
include a case number and write down and their authorized purpose. 01:17:04
So I ran my work vehicle. I'll show you here in just a second. 01:17:12
And I, because I am the facilitator and the state law allows us to run things for training and demonstration purposes, we just 01:17:15
have to anonymize the information. So you'll see a lot of yellow bars. 01:17:21
Blocking out some information. I wasn't sure who was going to be in here, so just wanted to make that clear so there's a very 01:17:29
clear audit. 01:17:33
Piece to this and that. We can pull logs and see what people are running. We don't allow any curiosity checks on any of our 01:17:37
systems, whether it's BCI, Eucis or the license plate reader system. 01:17:44
So the next slide is kind of what you see when you run a license plate, just kind of want to show everyone. 01:17:53
As you can see, most of them are the rear of the vehicle. 01:18:00
So it doesn't show you who's driving. It's literally just capturing the vehicle. I know a lot of people are worried about seeing, 01:18:04
like. 01:18:08
This isn't a red light camera. This is not a We're not sending anyone citations from something we see in this. 01:18:13
This is a specific crime has occur. 01:18:20
Or we're looking for a specific person. 01:18:23
And then we query the system to see if anything matches. 01:18:26
So if you had a shooting or something on a street and you had a license plate reader camera and someones house camera saw a red 01:18:30
car, you could go to the system and say red cars within this time and this time. 01:18:37
And if any license plates were captured. 01:18:44
It could give you some suspect information. 01:18:48
So it's. It doesn't track all your movement everywhere, it only captures. 01:18:50
The location where the camera is. 01:18:57
And it's not stealing any data from the vehicle. It is what it is. It's a picture. 01:19:00
With an algorithm that reads the plate and then. 01:19:05
So these are my work vehicle. I ran the my work vehicle and you can see. 01:19:10
Each one of those is a different location. 01:19:15
And it just gives you so some of the. 01:19:19
It gives you the first column going down is just the overall picture, the second one is the plate image. It does like a zoomed in. 01:19:23
So because it's an algorithm and it's a computer, so it might read AB is an R or something like that, depending on. 01:19:31
Lighting and things like that. So you have the ability to look at it and see if it's really what. 01:19:38
Trying to look at. 01:19:43
Gives you the date time the camera location. 01:19:44
And the direction. 01:19:48
And the top row there if you hover it would go to the next screen. 01:19:50
You can print out this is what your evidence piece would be if you found something that was potentially evidence. This is what. 01:19:55
It would create this PDF. 01:20:02
That then goes gets uploaded into our digital evidence system in evidence.com. 01:20:05
So you see there's a two types of maps. There's a easier to read map. Obviously this is not from our camera when any of our 01:20:10
cameras. So a black I yellowed out all the addresses and the agency just so that for the purpose of this demonstration. 01:20:18
But it captured my vehicle as I was going home one of the many times. 01:20:26
And that's kind of what you get. It doesn't run the plate in the background, it doesn't give you registration information. 01:20:32
It doesn't give you any owner information, any lien holder information, any insurance information. 01:20:39
It's just a date, time, location, direction. 01:20:47
And a picture. That's it. 01:20:50
So I know a lot of people are concerned that you can track people's movements. 01:20:54
Everywhere. Well, you'd have to have a specific reason to be querying that. 01:20:58
Like I said, the four things that you can run. 01:21:03
And UPD is already we've already been using. We have been using this system as a demo for about a year. Not that many officers 01:21:06
have been. 01:21:10
Using it. 01:21:14
But it's set up very similar to the other system, this one's just a little bit more robust. 01:21:16
Another piece to this system that the other system doesn't have is a lot of the civilian. 01:21:21
Tow truck drivers and repo guys that are driving around have license plate readers on their car so they can find the car. They're 01:21:29
looking forward to Repo. 01:21:33
Or to recover for their their company. 01:21:39
It feeds into this system as well. We can see their data, but they cannot see any of our data. 01:21:41
So they're driving around in apartment complexes. 01:21:48
They're capturing license plates as they drive. 01:21:52
And it feeds up into this database, but and we can benefit from that. 01:21:56
But they don't. So if their car hits on one of our systems. 01:22:01
We wouldn't even know because their systems are totally different than our. 01:22:05
But where this comes in handy is if you're looking for a wanted person, if a repo guy has ever driven by. 01:22:09
A house or an apartment. And the car is there to your suspect now instead of just seeing it driving down the road, now you 01:22:15
actually have it in front of a house or or an apartment. The other system doesn't doesn't do that and that. 01:22:22
The major investigations unit are one of our primary assignments was one of fugitives with the US Marshals and that was a huge 01:22:29
piece for us was sometimes we'd have that. 01:22:34
Vehicle placed in the driveway or on a street in front of a. 01:22:39
So that's a very good investigative. 01:22:43
We don't want to surveil our citizens. Like I said, we don't show the front of the vehicle. 01:22:46
The front plate. It's not a good thing to try to get the front plate anyway. In Utah. Front plate is required, but it's a 01:22:52
secondary fence, not a primary offense, and so a lot of people don't care and don't have a front plate. So that's why we mainly 01:22:57
target the backside of the vehicle. 01:23:02
So that's kind of a low down, quick down and dirty about license plate readers. I know lots about them. If you have any questions, 01:23:09
I'd be more than happy to answer them. I know you guys had some concerns, so. 01:23:13
Hit me, hit me with your questions. 01:23:19
So the cost of the actual cameras were 2500 a year, is that right? Correct. Is there any cost as far as training the officers to 01:23:21
use them or or is that it just the 2500, it's it's actually the quote they just gave us is actually 2250 per? 01:23:29
Per camera, and I'm assuming they would honor that if we added anymore. 01:23:38
But they will actually fly someone in when ours come in and do all the training that we need and they'll train us on how to 01:23:43
install them. But we don't. It's no extra cost. 01:23:49
How many would we need if holiday was? 01:23:55
Go with this system. 01:23:59
That would be a conversation for Chief Oil and Lieutenant Ackerman, I know. 01:24:01
I've worked in this area for several years. I worked in I was a Mill Creek card and Mill Creek detective for several years. 01:24:08
And I would look. 01:24:14
Crime analytics and figure that out. 01:24:18
I'd say it's. 01:24:24
Holiday is a pretty nice area, so. 01:24:26
Probably don't need a lot. 01:24:28
But all so your officers that are here still benefit from all the other cameras around the valley like they can look something up 01:24:31
and their suspect could. We know crime in this valley is transient so someone from the West side could come over here and steal 01:24:38
something and someone from here could go over there and we get that there there's a shuffle. So the bigger the network is the. 01:24:45
The better it becomes. 01:24:52
I know. So just as an example, Midvale decided to do 16, Kearns is doing 11, Magna is doing 4. 01:24:55
And Mill Creek decided on 10 in July. 01:25:03
So there's kind of just kind of varies on, could you remind me again about? 01:25:06
The data retention. 01:25:11
Element 9. 01:25:13
OK. And that's so you're essentially reading license plates? 01:25:15
For every car that goes past a certain point. 01:25:21
For nine months and so then if you generate a. 01:25:26
You can go back nine months worth to track where a certain license plate has been over the last nine months, correct? But these 01:25:30
stand alone plates. 01:25:35
Just like driving down a street. So like it might be 4100 S. 01:25:41
12 W. 01:25:47
And so you might have multiple hits at that location. It doesn't necessarily tell you where they are, where they're going, but it 01:25:49
might give you some analytics on. 01:25:52
Like if you can't find that person, well, the analytics show that that. 01:25:56
Hits of that license plate reader every day at this time. He might be going to work or she might be going to work and then you 01:26:00
could set your detective in that area and. 01:26:04
And I noticed in one of the points that unlike the flux system one of that one of those was. 01:26:08
The placement of those was secret. It seemed like and movable whenever you want and but this one of your egregious out of 01:26:16
indicated it need to be publicly noticed is that if it's on AU dot right of way, that's a state that was mandated by the state. 01:26:24
They but if it's on you, but if it's not, then it's not subject to public disclosure or but that would be a policy decision if you 01:26:32
wanted to. 01:26:37
Place it on your website that that would be totally up to you and right. But that's that's different from Flock as I recall, where 01:26:42
that was kind of a more secretive thing. 01:26:47
Yeah. So the big difference between this one, this one, the flock one was mounted, you had to and then if you wanted it moved. 01:26:53
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was anywhere from 500 to $5000 to move it. These ones are are movable by our officers. They're 01:26:59
trained to do it. It's it's more just as you can see that other one that has. 01:27:05
And Flock raised their prices from 2500 to 3000 per. 01:27:41
Per camera per year. 01:27:46
Midvale, who has 15 that. 01:27:48
Now you're going $500 more per camera. That's another $7000. Yeah, I think as a price increase. 01:27:51
My my recollection with this flock. 01:27:58
And Paul, I think you. 01:28:01
Big part of it was just the information. 01:28:03
Privacy piece and all that which seems to be resolved. 01:28:07
I'm assuming the point of this is to just give us a. 01:28:12
Kind of an overview of this. 01:28:15
Less expensive and more effective option we. 01:28:18
So that chief. 01:28:22
Picking how many we're going to have tonight, I'm assuming it correct. You're going to come back and say OK. 01:28:25
Will agenda again. 01:28:30
And the Council? 01:28:32
I'm sure you're going to make a recommend. 01:28:34
And then recommendation of how many we ought to have, at least to start out. 01:28:37
And that can be part of our budgeting process or it could even be part of the budgeting process this year. 01:28:41
Based off our precinct fund. 01:28:46
Policy issues that they are somewhat mitigated. 01:29:15
But that's still a discussion I think we should still have, whether they're adequately mitigated. 01:29:19
Yeah. So I'm assuming we'll bring this back. 01:29:24
And probably in a work session and address some of those issues and then then the council can decide. 01:29:28
Based on your recommend. 01:29:36
If we want to invest in this or not and how much we want to invest? 01:29:38
Perfect. That would be great. 01:29:41
Thank you. All right. Lieutenant Taylor, thank you very much. OK. Thank you. Appreciate it. 01:29:43
Chief, I think you're still up. Just had to get your stuff. 01:29:48
Well, I feel like I'm monopolizing a lot of the meeting here tonight, but I appreciate the time and the opportunity to talk with 01:29:56
you. So tonight we're going to talk a little bit about our quarterly report for the fourth quarter of 2023, which obviously is 01:30:02
October to December. In your packets, you've got in the slide, the first slide, you can see the overall crime statistics or call 01:30:08
volume that we had each month throughout the year. And in comparison to the previous year's 2221, obviously you can see from June 01:30:13
to. 01:30:19
August, September ish, we did have a little bit of spike higher call volume during those months and we kind of had an average 01:30:26
years, but the other months of the year were pretty consistent across the board. And even if we go to the next slide as you see 01:30:32
overall for that quarter, the fourth quarter you'll see the call types that we responded on and comparing those from 22 to 23. And 01:30:39
at the very end in 2022 we responded on 853 calls, in 2023 it was 859, it's only a difference of six calls. So we're we're staying 01:30:45
pretty consistent as far as calls. 01:30:52
Go during that quarter. 01:30:59
In the next slide is just our traffic offense. As we all know, we talked about quite regularly, traffic is one of the biggest 01:31:01
things that we hear about and I will just you'll see that in October we had 35 related traffic calls, November we had 41 and then 01:31:07
in December 49 and in December we had quite a few. 01:31:14
The next slide, one thing that I want to touch on is our response times. Our priority ones generally were right there around 2:00 01:31:53
to 3:00 minutes on priority one calls. You'll see in December, we had kind of a spike there. And I think it's important to note 01:31:59
and I want to make sure everybody understands priority one calls. We had a few calls that were classified as priority one calls, 01:32:05
but they were not urgent calls. So for example, I think if my memory. 01:32:11
Serves me correctly. We had one that was a domestic violence call that had a weapon. 01:32:19
As well. 01:32:53
The next several slides and I won't go through each one of those individually, you guys can look at those for your respective 01:32:55
districts. 01:32:58
You can see the number of calls that we responded on in October, November and December. 01:33:02
And if you have any questions about those, I'm happy to answer them. But they're pretty straightforward as far as the numbers and 01:33:08
the types of calls that you are seeing in your area. And as I've looked at those, we regularly they're pretty consistent with what 01:33:12
we've seen in, in the past. 01:33:17
Including any other unattended or attended deaths this unit. 01:33:57
I've had the opportunity to work in this unit as a detective and as the supervisor of the Sergeant and I I know the work that goes 01:34:04
is done by these these detectives is is second to none. They're very highly trained. They specialize in death investigations and 01:34:10
as I said in robberies. 01:34:15
The detectives get called out regularly 24/7 to investigate these cases. If there's a suicide, one will get called out anytime of 01:34:22
the night to investigate those. But what I wanted to touch on real quick and I'm not going to get into this specifics of these 01:34:27
cases. 01:34:32
But during the fourth quarter of 2023, our violent crimes unit came out on 12 different cases in Holiday that included death, 01:34:39
robberies, assaults and suicides. Two of the cases they responded into in Holiday were very. 01:34:45
Very time intensive and manpower intensive as well. The two cases are still ongoing and so I can't get into the specifics of it 01:34:52
right now. Obviously to not compromise the investigation that's taking place. But one included a suspicious death of a young child 01:34:58
and then an attempted homicide that was reported that you probably saw reported in the media that's still ongoing, is still being 01:35:05
worked in, worked on these. This unit is very skilled and serves all of the partners at the Unified Police Department. 01:35:12
At the bottom of it's a link to that unit and you can go see pictures of them and and. 01:35:20
And some of the other specifics about what that unit does, but we've there are great resource to have when we have one of these 01:35:24
very difficult type cases and they've put a lot of effort into these especially to these two specific cases that happened. 01:35:29
Very sad, tragic cases here in holiday this, during this. 01:35:36
A couple of things that I just want to highlight for you and I'll wrap up. As you'll see on the cases Of note, on December 21st 01:35:41
victim had called 911 and stated that she was not free to speak and communicated that she was being held by a suspect that had a 01:35:47
weapon. When our our officers arrived, they observed the female run from the residence as officers were formulating a plan to the 01:35:52
suspect exited the house with a weapon. 01:35:58
Because of, I mean, this is obviously a situation that could have had a very tragic outcome and a much more serious. 01:36:04
Consequences. But our officers, because of the training and just the the sheer professionals they have, were able to mitigate this 01:36:13
situation and take the suspect into custody without having a tragic outcome. 01:36:18
And then refuse to answer the door, obviously creating a situation. We don't know what that individual is about. We had a lot of 01:36:55
help from surrounding agency canines you'll see in their West Valley city, West Jordan, and you, PDK officers responded, they 01:37:01
conducted A surround and call out where they surround the apartment, call the suspect out. He came out and was taken into custody 01:37:07
safely with nobody being hurt and then ultimately giving that victim some Peace of Mind and safety. 01:37:13
Last one on this one on our motor unit, as you know we have two traffic officers here in holiday. 01:37:21
Each other precinct that UPD has has traffic officers as well. 01:37:29
Once a month, those well, in the summer months they'll get together twice a month, but in the spring and fall they get together 01:37:35
once a month and they'll hit a different precinct and just do saturation enforcement to help out on high traffic issued Rd. 01:37:41
streets and do enforcement there. And so on November 8th the unit came up here in holiday. 01:37:47
You can see all the streets that they sat on, but during a three hour window working together with all the traffic officers, 31 01:37:54
citations, which are warnings and actual citations were issued or 31 contacts with citizens and really helped with some of the 01:37:59
problem areas that we were. 01:38:04
And then lastly, the one that I'm super proud of here is the last one on December 9th every year our organization does a shopping 01:38:10
with the Shield. 01:38:15
And we, as officers, pay into a program to take young kids who are struggling in the community shopping this year. And the way 01:38:20
it's done, our policy normally doesn't allow male officers to grow beards. Female officers, and you can't color your hair. It has 01:38:26
to be natural color. But during that time off, male officers are allowed to grow beards. Females can color their hair or paint 01:38:32
their fingernails. 01:38:37
And then you pay to be able to do that and you pay $100. That $100. Then it gets put into an account to take kids in the community 01:38:43
shopping. As you'll see on there. This year we raised $45,640 by officers and deputies from both the Unified Police Department, 01:38:51
Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office, and we're able to help 137 children and 43 families with that money. I think it's important to 01:38:58
know that each child that we take shopping gets $250 to go buy whatever it is that they need. 01:39:06
At that time of year, each parent or family get an additional $300.00 so they can buy things that the family might need, and then 01:39:13
they're given $100.00 gift card to buy a Christmas dinner. 01:39:19
To date, this program that we've been doing has raised $343,000 that we've been able to give back to and you can see there's a 01:39:25
link there to a new store that was done and this family that's here, I had the opportunity to shop with them and what a, what a 01:39:31
great family and a touching story that they've been going through and really had a good opportunity to get to know this family, 01:39:36
but really proud of our officers for. 01:39:42
Really putting in the money to get back to the community. 01:39:48
And that's what I've got for you guys today. Any questions you've got for me? 01:39:52
I know it would be difficult for the female officers to grow beards, but but. 01:39:56
But we contribute if you agreed to color your hair. 01:40:02
What color? It depends. Well, holiday green. It's Christmas too. There you go. 01:40:07
Put that on your agenda for possibilities. 01:40:14
The other thing I achieved just thanks for some of those stories, they're really heartwarming and I really appreciate the. 01:40:18
You know some of those examples you told not only in the presentation, but in the awards earlier? 01:40:23
Particularly the case of the father with the autistic son. Of course. I have that situation in my hometown, not with a behavioral 01:40:29
issue, but. 01:40:32
But you know, of course, being a father of autistic child, I I hear those types of stories a lot and some of them don't end that 01:40:35
well. And so I certainly appreciate that story and also the story in the presentation that just demonstrates. 01:40:41
Such great professionalism, courage and compassion. And those 3 character elements are just so admirable and appreciated by the 01:40:48
City Council member. Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it. It's an honor. 01:40:55
Thank you. Appreciate. 01:41:03
OK, Captain Brown. 01:41:06
On non emergent calls, let. 01:41:42
You know maybe a small fall that someone is just needs to be picked up or or something that's not emergent, they'll send a station 01:41:45
104 first as to not take a unit from maybe a Murray or another city, something that the time allows. And then if not then if 01:41:51
station One O 4 is out then it'll send another UFA unit in for those non emergent calls. If you look at the number of calls on our 01:41:57
four year monthly comparison, you can see that the the call volume is. 01:42:04
Is going up every year. I talked to the captains. They don't really know exactly. They can't put their finger on why. 01:42:11
The call volume keeps going up here, my guess and is just in my experience as more people as more calls. So I'm assuming and I 01:42:18
think that I think Mayor, I think you said that maybe the population is going up 2% a year or the average or so. Typically it's 01:42:24
about 1% I think in in. 01:42:29
Holiday. 01:42:36
You can see we respond outside of holiday. I think Mill Creek is growing much faster. So it might be could be outside of holiday 01:42:39
too, but yeah it could be. But certainly there's some just population increase, it's not like it's huge. So that's probably it 01:42:45
also perhaps aging demographic a little bit that also could be another thing too, you know and in in. 01:42:52
2020, I believe we're kind of the tail end of Covad. A lot of people are still staying at home and and the more people out and 01:42:58
about equals more calls. 01:43:01
The top EMS dispatches, this is usually about the same. A lot of times falls as #1. At holiday again we have that we have an aging 01:43:39
population and so falls is is #1 most of the time, but sick sick persons. It doesn't surprise me. I know my family is definitely 01:43:46
been hit in the fourth quarter of last year as well. And then top other dispatches. 01:43:52
The incoming units or the bottom, it shows the percentage of the of the calls of those units in holidays. So 65% of of station 104 01:43:59
is is in holiday and the rest they're going outside 112 up in Olympus Cove they come in, 15% of their calls are here. Cottonwood 01:44:06
Heights comes in and then you can see for the ambulances as well. So the ambulance. 01:44:14
Holidays ambulance ambulance 204 is a is a peak load what we call peak load ambulance which is runs 9:00 to 9:00 so at nights and. 01:44:22
110 is the next closest ambulance and 106 comes in a lot to holiday at night because ambulance 204 is is not running, so that's 01:44:33
why you see the percentage is a lot closer. 01:44:38
On those numbers for the ambulance, I do know that they look at that a lot and as calls. 01:44:45
Get larger or the call volume increases. I know they look at potentially changing that into a 24 hour ambulance but it's a it's 01:44:51
all a money thing. Then you see our our response time so our 50th percentile is 529 which is pretty good and then the 90th 01:44:57
percentile is 8/8/18 and and that's always skewed a little bit for instance if if if you have something that's maybe non emergent 01:45:03
like a someone that's fallen and they just need to get up and they they don't have any injuries station one O 4 is out on another 01:45:09
call. 01:45:15
It might take Station 112. 01:45:21
Or Station 110 from Cottonwood Heights. A little while to get here to get in, but All in all, those numbers have improved a little 01:45:23
bit over the past. 01:45:27
The past few years cheaper jet has. 01:45:32
Put a challenge to all the crews that he wants all of us to get out the door. 01:45:36
10% faster than what we have been doing. You know it's something that he just challenged us with and and it doesn't cost any money 01:45:41
and you know it's something that we all, we all strive for because I think anybody can get, you know, get out the door 10% faster 01:45:46
than than they were before with a little bit of effort. 01:45:51
Next slide, Stephanie. Oh, yes. 01:45:57
Just out of curiosity, what is the difference between a fall and a shortfall? 01:46:00
So a shortfall would be like a ground level fall and then a fall, fall would be something that might be? 01:46:05
More dangerous shortfall, it's how they're dispatched. A fall with some sort of maybe a head injury or from a ladder would be a 01:46:14
fall and then we actually have a long fall which I believe is 30 feet or further. 01:46:20
And that all depends on the dispatch what gets dispatched to. 01:46:27
Thank you. I was just curious about that. 01:46:30
So here's a little here's a heat map. The next slide is actually a little bit better. This doesn't ever really change. The two big 01:46:35
circles are the bottom circle is a care center, and then the top circle there's, I think, I believe there's a cluster of apartment 01:46:42
buildings right there or condos. So yeah, So that usually doesn't ever change. 01:46:49
OK. Next slide. 01:46:58
Oh. 01:47:00
OK, so some exciting news. So the fire engine. 01:47:04
Medic Engine 104 is a 2006 Seagrave and this is a brand new Rosenbauer fire engine that you'll be seeing here in the next couple 01:47:10
weeks, hopefully by the end of February, the latest early March. It's almost being done, being built and you can kind of scroll 01:47:16
onto the pictures as I as I explain it. 01:47:23
As you can see, so fire engines, I didn't know they're all handmade. It's not like it's not like an assembly line. So these they 01:47:30
go through a design process which we kind of say what we would like and there and there's certain specifications, right, that you 01:47:36
have to meet certain requirements, but they're all handmade and they take 660 days from when you order to when you get them and 01:47:42
they cost $684,000, this fire engine. So. So again, we have a 2006 Seagrave, it's going to be retired and this one it should last 01:47:47
a. 01:47:53
Fire engine. 01:48:32
That serves the whole battalion. So about 7 or 8 fire stations say one of their fire engines go down. Obviously you can't just 01:48:33
say, oh, fire engines broke down, which they breakdown a lot. We're not going to be on calls. They bring that out, they switch out 01:48:38
the equipment and then they go into that reserve fire engine. So that is the goal for. 01:48:44
For this one is to get 10 years frontline, five years reserve. The good thing about it is we learned a lot when we bought the one 01:48:51
that. 01:48:54
Medic Engine 104, now it's a 26. I think we bought, I can't remember. We've got 15 or 16 of them. 01:48:59
And what happened was is. 01:49:05
They all started breaking at the exact same time off 15 or 16. So the front ends all started going you know three years in or or 01:49:09
we designed the brake system poorly or the brakes we weren't weren't strong enough and we should have different brakes. We 01:49:16
originally put air ride on the front we they were problematic. So what we're doing now is is UFA has three nine year loans that 01:49:23
they do and every three years one drops off they buy a new one and then we we're going to buy 4 fire engines. 01:49:30
Every three years. And the good thing about that is, is one, it makes it easier to budget rather than buying 16 all at once and 01:49:38
then waiting and then buy more. So we're going to buy 4 / 3 years. And then not only that, so say this is kind of in the first 01:49:43
generation of these Rosenbaum fire engines, but say we find something that we don't like about them, then we can switch it on the 01:49:49
next four or we can make little tweaks to them to to do exactly how we like. 01:49:54
The biggest changes on this one is it has what we call a clean cap. So we're currently in the fire engine that we have right now. 01:50:01
Your air tanks, your SCBA is inside the cab. 01:50:09
What they've been learning is firefighters have a very high higher risk of cancer and a lot of it is is particulates and stuff 01:50:15
from fires, right? So it totally makes sense to to when you explain it. But you go on a fire, you have all of this stuff all over 01:50:21
your pack, your air pack and and your turnouts don't go in there. But then you put your air pack in your seat because it's easier 01:50:27
to put on and then you sit on your air pack and then you're you smell like smoke for a week. 01:50:32
Right. And as I explained it, it just sounds dumb, but that's just everything. These have new have clean cabs, so nothing from a 01:50:39
fire is stored inside the cab. Everything is stored outside, which which is a big deal because cutting cancer rates is is one of 01:50:44
our. 01:50:49
Big goals nationally. 01:50:54
Another thing to have a hose reel and some other things on it, but I I will have it when it does come and when we get do get it 01:50:57
delivered I'll have it bring out here and so everybody can see it personally, but they they're really good looking and it's it's a 01:51:01
big deal, it's an exciting thing. 01:51:06
Finally, this slide. I don't know if you can see it so. 01:51:11
For some of you now, I'm a pretty I'm a member of the Happy Healthy Holiday Coalition and you know, our whole goal is to is to 01:51:17
improve. 01:51:22
The lives and well-being and I wish I remembered our mission statement. I mean look at Holly. But anyway, anyways, it's basically 01:51:27
to improve the lives and well-being of of the citizens of the holiday. So this is data from the Salt Lake County Health Department 01:51:32
and I just want to point out one thing. 01:51:37
If you look at the drug and opioid poisoning deaths, and this is 2022, I'm sure we'll get our 2023 data soon. 01:51:42
The opioid deaths compared to the county average, the city of holiday is almost 50% higher than the rest of the county, which. 01:51:49
It surprised, surprised me right. And so that is the happy, healthy holiday. Cool is just kind of taking that on to be the number 01:51:57
one thing that we're, I mean we're we're trying to hit everything, but that's the number one thing that we're hitting right now. 01:52:02
And over the past month we've held kind of two events. You know Mayor Daley was at one of them and we we have handed out and 01:52:08
trained over 50 people in. 01:52:13
And to me that's almost like training 50 people in CPR because that's someone that could potentially save a life. They know how 01:52:50
and they have the drug and and they know how to use it. So that's one thing that. 01:52:55
That I'm proud of that the happy, Healthy Healthy Holiday coalition is doing and we're going to continue to do more. But we had, 01:53:01
we had, we we held an event in the library last last week or two weeks ago and we had to get more chairs. There's so many people 01:53:07
attended from high schoolers to senior citizens and and it it was pretty awesome. 01:53:13
So that's my report. Do you have any questions, any questions for anybody? 01:53:19
Thank you. Thanks, Ken. Appreciate it. 01:53:27
OK. All right. We are moving right along then. Thank you, Captain Brown. Gina, you're up. 01:53:32
So I've got just a few things tonight, legislative session in full swing. 01:53:40
As we talked about it briefly across the hall, there's a lot percolating in the housing arena. I'm going to save a lengthier 01:53:47
conversation until we are more clear about direction. Some of it's alarming, some of it is not, and we'll see if we've got a 01:53:54
clearer direction in two weeks. 01:54:00
I did want to highlight a couple of things that we're watching with great interest. One is SB144. This is sponsored by Senator 01:54:07
Milner and it would authorize a dollar for dollar match. 01:54:14
Umm for public art. 01:54:22
In for a municipality in the county of first, the first class, which we are. So I think that might be an exciting opportunity. 01:54:25
We're also looking carefully at House Bill 65, which would expand the definition of active transportation to include canal trails. 01:54:34
As part of active transportation plans and would also potentially open up the possibility of using quarter preservation dollars 01:54:45
for active transportation projects along canal trails. 01:54:51
I know it might be too soon, but it is just an interesting thing that we're keeping an eye on. 01:54:58
So that's the legislative session in 90 seconds. 01:55:06
There's another opportunity I just wanted to briefly mention. Several years ago, Councilmember Peterson had had floated the idea 01:55:13
of doing movie nights in the park during the summer, and for a variety of reasons, including a pandemic, that was tough for us to 01:55:21
do, but we're thinking we'd like to give it a try this summer. 01:55:29
And we're looking at a couple of dates in September. We think we can do this from a budget standpoint for a pretty minimal cost. 01:55:38
We'll need a license for movies, that's about $800. We'll need a projector and then a screen. We're thinking all in maybe $2000. 01:55:47
We would just try it this summer. 01:55:57
The funding would be in next fiscal year, but I think it's something we could accommodate in our existing budget. 01:56:00
Before we scheduled it, I just wanted to toss that idea out again and see if the council is supportive. 01:56:07
Do you know, I think this is like a fantastic idea. Would that be run through the arts? 01:56:13
Committee or who would be? So we were thinking of running it as a special event, kind of similar to 4th of July where the Arts 01:56:18
Council could participate, but our special events Coordinator Crystal Nichols would. I think it sounds like a fantastic idea. 01:56:27
Would it be in the City Park or the park? We're thinking City Park just from a parking standpoint? 01:56:36
No objection, Your Honor. 01:56:45
All right. 01:56:50
Thank you. 01:56:51
Thanks. 01:56:54
Ty, do you want to go first? 01:56:56
Sure, the only thing I have to report I've met with Sandy Meadows from the historical. 01:56:58
Committee. 01:57:04
I'm looking forward to, I'll be. I'll miss this first meeting since I was put in but I'm looking forward to that and it's great to 01:57:06
see volunteers like her. The passion that exists is amazing and and I look forward to this though it'll be great. 01:57:13
Council member Graham's not here. Do you want to go? 01:57:23
I was going to mention. 01:57:27
The tree talk on February 10th, but Trudy did that and I was going to mention the naloxone training, but Captain Brown did that. 01:57:29
So that's my report. 01:57:33
I like that I like the link. 01:57:39
Tiny art show this coming week, February 5th through the 10th downstairs. It's always awesome, so come and see the art show 01:57:42
downstairs next week. 01:57:46
I don't have anything tonight. 01:57:54
I just want to thank Gina. She has been doing her very favorite thing in helping me help Bonneville get their banners figured out, 01:57:57
which I think we're getting that figured out and I appreciate that. 01:58:02
And then I had a constituent ask or I guess we asked about the possibility for homeowners to designate their property as one of 01:58:08
historical significance in having. 01:58:13
Protections with that, and I know that the council discussed that a while ago and I know there's lots of other things going on 01:58:19
just putting it out there that if we could get that back on the agenda sometime in the next little while. 01:58:25
It seemed like there was a lot of interest in doing that if. 01:58:31
Property owner initiated and that that seems. 01:58:35
Like that would. 01:58:39
Be a good thing to provide to people. 01:58:41
Yeah, I think. I think. 01:58:44
Property owners want to encumber their own property. I think they can do that and I don't know what role the city would play, but 01:58:46
we could look at the problem we get to when. 01:58:50
Exactly. People want us to encumber somebody elses property. 01:58:55
That's clearly that's clearly a problem. 01:59:00
OK. Very quickly. You know, we had the. 01:59:03
Historical speaker series is really growing the they featured the Moyle family. 01:59:08
On Monday, they had 85 people here. Holly was here. 01:59:13
It was at 85. 01:59:18
Yeah, we actually had to go get chairs. And so it's like a lot of stuff where people have these visions, like the movie night. 01:59:20
Sometimes it takes a minute but. 01:59:26
It's getting traction. Doug Wright's going to speak on March 11th if people want to put that on their calendar. 01:59:29
He's a holiday resident, so anyway, it was great. 01:59:34
I think that's it. So we are going to move across the hall to start the PID discussion. So take a motion, recess, maybe just a 01:59:39
couple minute break and we'll get going. Mr. Mayor, I move that we adjourn City Council meeting and reconvene in a work session 01:59:44
across the hall in a couple of minutes. 01:59:49
Motion. And second, all in favor, Say aye. Aye. We're adjourned. 01:59:56
Recessed. Sorry, we were recessed. 02:00:00
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OK. Welcome everybody. Sorry, we are. 00:00:17
3 minutes late we had a little. 00:00:21
Discussion going on across the hall, so I apologize. 00:00:24
Anyway we are we will call to order the City of Holiday City Council Meeting on Thursday, February 1st and ask everybody to rise 00:00:27
for the pledge, please. 00:00:31
The United States of America. 00:00:39
And save the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:45
Thank you, everybody. Before we open up public comment, I just want to clarify that we have a continued public hearing. 00:00:57
On the rezone application at 2051 and 2061 E as item number 4. 00:01:06
On the agenda. So if you are here to address the Council on that particular application, Please wait for that continued public 00:01:12
hearing. If you are here to address the Council on anything other than that rezone application, public comment is now open. We 00:01:19
just ask you to approach the podium, give us your name and address and try to keep it to 3 minutes or less, please. Public 00:01:26
comments Now, Trudy, why don't you start us off, show everybody how it's done. 00:01:33
I'm Trudy. I'm from the library. 00:01:43
Our new app is so much better at finding the events on there that I'm only going to hit the really good ones because you can find 00:01:47
the stuff better now, so this is awesome. 00:01:50
Our book Club Our Saturday, Our first Saturday book club. It's probably too late for you to read the book for this Saturday, but 00:02:29
in March it's going to be Our Missing Hearts by Celeste Ng and we welcome everybody to come and join in that. 00:02:36
Maker Monday is on the 5th. Come make a Valentine heart with our with Emma. She's our Createspace coordinator and it's going to be 00:02:45
all learning about the cricket machine. It's awesome. 00:02:50
This month, all month long, we're going to have the photography of Mark Mickelson in our large meeting room. But if you come on 00:02:56
the 9th at 4:00, there's an artist reception. You can meet the artist and talk to him. 00:03:00
On the 10th we are going to coordinate with holiday trees and they're going to have a tree talk on fruit tree pruning if that's 00:03:06
your thing. 00:03:10
And just a note, we've had such a great response to our craft programs for adults that crafter space on the second Tuesdays now 00:03:16
requires registration. 00:03:20
So if you want to come make a Felt charcuterie board, you're going to have to sign up. 00:03:25
On the 14th, we're going to have a special Valentine's slumber story time at 7:00. 00:03:29
The family film on the 17th is going to be Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny will be closed the 19th for Presidents Day. And 00:03:35
then there's if you've never had a sound bath, we will be having one of those on the 24th at 10:15. 00:03:41
And that is what we are doing, some of a few of the things that we're going to be doing at the library in February. 00:03:48
Do you have any questions? 00:03:54
No, just it's amazing all the stuff that goes on over at that library. 00:03:57
Chase my kids, my grandkids around sometimes on Tuesday and we come over for a reading. 00:04:03
10:15 There's always a full house there and there's always all sorts of activities, so kudos to you and your staff. Always 00:04:08
something fun to do. And in February will be Hugo months so you can come visit our huge Krog. 00:04:14
Just saying. 00:04:21
Thank you. 00:04:25
Anybody else for public comment not associated with the public hearing. 00:04:29
OK. Not seeing any. I'm going to close public comment. 00:04:38
The rezone application is item number four, but out of respect for the time of some of our officers who are receiving awards 00:04:43
today, I would like to ask the council for a motion to move item number 7A and take that item out of order and then we'll move to 00:04:48
item number 4. 00:04:54
2nd I have a motion and a second. All in favor. Say aye, aye. Any opposed? OK, then we will move to item number 7A. This is the 00:05:01
Unified Police Department incentive awards Chief Hoyle. 00:05:07
Thank you, Mayor and Council, and I'm truly honored to be able to be here. And I've asked Lieutenant Ackerman to join me up here 00:05:15
as we present some of these awards tonight. As you know, I'm just so proud of our precinct and the officers that work here and and 00:05:20
the exceptional work that they continually do. And there's a few of our members tonight that I'd like to personally recognize. And 00:05:25
I'll start with Officers Bithel Norcross and still. 00:05:30
Join us up here for just a minute. 00:05:37
All three of these members are your cover graveyard shift. So these guys work your graveyard shift Saturday, Sunday and Monday 00:05:40
nights and go out of their way to keep keep the city safe at night while we well, we're all sleeping. But on one particular 00:05:46
instant I want to recognize these guys for is is just amazing to say the least. So on December 18th, 2023 Officers Bissell 00:05:52
Norcross and Sales responded to a home and holiday of a 23 year old autistic male who had a knife was threatening his parents and 00:05:57
himself. 00:06:03
Could relate to them and were caring. He was very grateful that this situation ended peacefully and his son was able to get the 00:06:48
help he needed. 00:06:51
Yours. 00:07:28
Thank you guys. Appreciate it. 00:07:32
So this next one that I'd like to present a little bit unique. 00:07:43
In in this incentive award that we want to do and I'd ask Sergeant Bench to come up and I'm actually going to ask two of his 00:07:48
officers that are on his shift, Officer Rasmussen, Officer Seibert to come up here as well. You probably remember Officer Seibert 00:07:54
and Rasmussen who are here a couple of months ago for an incentive to work for their great work. 00:07:59
But in this particular award, it's not too often that the officers recognize their supervisor for his or her outstanding 00:08:06
leadership abilities. And this all started because of these two officers recognizing Sergeant Bench and the great work that he 00:08:13
does. And he is on our traditional graveyard shift, so he keeps the city safe while you're sleeping. Tuesday through Friday, all 00:08:20
three of these folks do here. So anyway, so I initially started this and submitted this award. 00:08:27
After Officer Rasmussen sent me an e-mail about Sergeant benches, great work. And then a couple days later after I'd submitted it, 00:08:35
Officer Cyber sent an e-mail as well. And so I'll read the award that has Officer Rasmussen's comments and then tell you some of 00:08:40
the things that Officer Cyber said as well. So an employee, that Sergeant Bent supervisor sent a very kind e-mail about the 00:08:46
fantastic leader that he is in part, the e-mail reads. 00:08:52
And in addition, I thought it would be important to share some of the comments that Officer Cyber said he about him. Sergeant 00:10:08
Bench handled himself professionally when dealing with the public and his subordinates. He's always available to assist officers 00:10:13
not only on high profile investigations but on routine low level ones as well. He tries to make himself available and or give 00:10:18
one-on-one advice. Additionally, he's not afraid to jump in and take investigations. 00:10:23
And that can lead to bad morale. While Sergeant Ben shows up on a call, officers feel at ease and welcome his presence. Only few 00:10:59
supervisors have this ability. 00:11:02
I think it's super important and I've known Zach for a lot of years and he is one of those amazing supervisors and we're truly 00:11:06
honored to have him serving and working in this community. So with that, we're going to present him with the incentive award as 00:11:10
well. 00:11:14
You might come down to grab a picture with everybody here and. 00:11:24
Thank you. 00:11:55
Thank you for letting us have this time. I appreciate it. 00:12:00
Before they all skate out of here, which should be probably shortly. 00:12:04
We always want to take the opportunity to thank our officers for all they do for our community. We just feel so lucky to be part 00:12:09
of the Unified family and Chief Hoyle, your leadership. So anyway, I know you have families to get to or some of you are on duty, 00:12:14
I can see. But anyway, congratulations and thank you very much. 00:12:20
OK. Thank you. And we will move now back on agenda. 00:12:48
To item number four, this the continued public hearing. 00:12:54
At some point, I'm going to transition this discussion over to Council Member Ty Brewer, who represents this particular area and 00:13:00
has taken a lot of. 00:13:04
The comment from residents. 00:13:08
That are affected by this particular rezone application also in discussion with the applicant. 00:13:12
Since the public hearing opened up at the last council meeting. 00:13:20
We took, we took about 8 online comments, I think it was Stephanie, something like that, and then a number of comments from people 00:13:24
that were here in person. 00:13:29
And it seemed a lot of the concern had to do with the. 00:13:34
40 foot height that is associated with the PO zone in this particular application. 00:13:41
It caused us to. 00:13:50
Reach out to staff and discuss that a little bit and see what the genesis of the 40 foot height. 00:13:53
In the PO zone where that came from when that code was created, as the commercial zones are 35 feet C2 and C1 and the residential 00:14:00
zone, at least the residential zone that it puts this particular application is 32 feet. 00:14:07
And it kind of started an application and a discussion rather about. 00:14:15
You know how that happened and what the justification was and if these concerns were. 00:14:20
Were something we should be taking into account as a council going forward. 00:14:27
And so we started having this conversation with staff. 00:14:34
We received an updated kind of an updated staff report from Carrie Marsh and John. John Tierling. Kerry Marsh is with us tonight. 00:14:38
Kerry, why don't you come up and. 00:14:43
We can see if there's any more information the Council needs before we continue the public hearing. 00:14:49
So this is the. 00:14:55
The staff report, that's in the packet, the updated staff report. 00:14:57
Thanks, Mayor. 00:15:02
So with the direction to look at the PO zone and kind of the history behind that. 00:15:05
A lot of infill development I. 00:15:12
Is addressed by context, looking at what is surrounding a particular area or property and then blood zones or how to put zoning 00:15:15
regulations that. 00:15:22
Address the context of properties so that you when you do have infill development that. 00:15:29
It creates A context for how that development would take. 00:15:35
We looked at in particular. 00:15:41
This application or this location? The context of Murray Holiday Road and the context of being next to a residential zone. 00:15:44
Delmont and Sycamore. 00:15:56
A common. 00:16:00
Contextual infill may include something like bringing the buildings massing up toward the front of the main road, so closer to the 00:16:01
Main St. creates A pedestrian friendly environment, more safety. 00:16:09
'S. 00:16:18
That same concept was used in the Holiday Village zone, where you have buildings that are much closer. The PO zone was not as 00:16:19
developed as the Holiday Village zone. It's also a much. 00:16:25
Broader kind of application. Holiday village was all concentrated in one area, the PO zone. We're looking at properties on 00:16:33
Highland Drive and Murray Holiday Rd. So there's there's a bigger context there than just the concentration in the village. And so 00:16:39
that's why it's kind of more standards, more concentration for context was created for the holiday village zone specifically and 00:16:46
why the PO zone was a little bit broader. 00:16:52
But the main concept for the creation of that PO zone was to bring the buildings massing forward. 00:17:00
With bringing the massing forward also increasing the distance between residential areas. 00:17:07
Specifically discussing A buffer between that higher building mass. Inc and commercial or office use. 00:17:15
That would be allowed in that building and moving that further away from residential areas and locating it closer to the street. 00:17:25
That concept could be continued further you might have. 00:17:35
So in the staff report we talked about a 50% law area so. 00:17:41
Taking half the distance of a lot and allowing. 00:17:47
More building massing in the front portion of the lot and then stepping back or reducing building massing in the rear 50% of the 00:17:52
lot. So that is a concept that would be contextual, that could be applied for this application. It could be applied across all PO 00:17:59
zones, something that the council could look at for. 00:18:06
Exploring future zones or modifications if we wanted to make those contextual infill type changes. 00:18:14
Specifically to address some of the height concerns that. 00:18:22
That you may get when. 00:18:25
Creating infill development next to residential zones. So that is one way that you can address it is with. 00:18:29
More creative, contextual based. 00:18:36
Codes, so that is. 00:18:40
Kind of. The update or in the staff report was looking at what that reduced height next to a residential zone would be. It could 00:18:43
match the residential height, it could match what is in the existing RM zone, which is 35. So it's a difference of either 32 or 00:18:49
35. 00:18:56
But there's also the. 00:19:04
Concept in the PO zone that that 30 foot set back increase was created to create a buffer as well. So those are all just different 00:19:07
ways that buffering between infill commercial office development and residential development can be addressed. 00:19:16
Are there any questions that you'd like me to? 00:19:27
Run through the 50% that's in the report. 00:19:32
Does that is. 00:19:37
To the 30 foot set back? Or is that over the entire width of the of? 00:19:39
It takes. It takes the property as a whole. OK. 00:19:45
If it was 100 feet. 00:19:49
You'd have a 10 foot set back and then 50 feet back you would you would in this particular case or whatever they came up with, you 00:19:52
dropped from 40 to 35 feet and taper it into the neighborhood and is that, is that what you mean when you say? 00:19:59
So what's the zoning reference form based? 00:20:07
That's what you mean by form based or context based. It's the same kind of concept as looking at what's already in place and. 00:20:13
Creating. 00:20:21
Standards for buildings that. 00:20:22
Or take the full context of what's already there into account. 00:20:27
Carrie, do you know if this type, this form based type of zoning was considered when they originally created the PPO zone or if 00:20:32
that was part of the discussion at all or if it or? 00:20:38
It was considered and then set aside or just never considered or what was what was created in the PO zone is a form of form based 00:20:45
code and it takes some of those same principles, but it's not explicitly called out as form based code. But that is the same 00:20:50
principle of bringing your buildings closer to the street, allowing your massing to be closer to the to the street. So we're 00:20:56
talking about. 00:21:01
So what we're talking about here is it's essentially tweaking some of the same parameters. 00:21:09
One of which could be stepped down in height as you approach the residence, but then that also opens up. 00:21:16
The whole box of then do you extend the set back? 00:21:22
Back to 20 instead of 30 because you are reducing height, so there's all kinds of different tweaks. 00:21:26
That we could make to these zones and evolve them. 00:21:32
Of course, these are discussions that need to take place over some time. 00:21:37
Considerable deliberation because they create huge changes. When you're talking about entitlement changing, those are serious. 00:21:41
But but I think those are certainly. 00:21:50
Things we can always be looking at to consider. 00:21:52
In doing our job. 00:21:56
I. 00:21:59
Throw these into a mix in a. 00:22:01
Application situation, but rather we can use history. 00:22:05
To educate our future. 00:22:09
But I I hate. 00:22:12
Muddy the water when we're talking about specific applications. 00:22:14
For entitlements that are currently on the books. 00:22:19
If that makes sense, yeah. 00:22:25
My only I understand what you're saying is I. 00:22:28
I mean, from my standpoint, I would not want to consider. 00:22:33
Just to. 00:22:38
Appease A singular zone application because the public is upset about the fact that it's being redeveloped. But. 00:22:41
If staff is basically saying that there's some. 00:22:49
Justification in re looking at the. 00:22:54
Or zones. Maybe even C1 or C2. 00:22:59
Where we have a lot of these. 00:23:04
Strips that abut residential areas. Is there justification to have staff look at some of those and see if this form based code? 00:23:07
Could be a way to better transition some of those heights into the neighborhood. 00:23:15
I would be. 00:23:21
Open to that. And if the applicant has basically said, which I understand they have, we've had some conversations with the 00:23:23
applicants to say we think. 00:23:27
We think we could make that work inside of a development agreement. 00:23:32
And then let and then refer back to staff and back to the Planning Commission to take a look at it more broadly. It doesn't hold 00:23:37
up this application. 00:23:41
It meets some of those, some of those. I don't know what would come out of the study. The study may come back and say. 00:23:48
Now we think it ought to be 32 feet or we think, no, it's fine the way it is or whatever, in which case we've got a development 00:23:54
agreement in place that we have to honor. 00:23:58
But if. 00:24:03
If it keeps the peace in the neighborhood, while we have time to look at it more broadly, if there's justification that I'm for 00:24:05
it, I would need staff to tell me there's some. 00:24:10
You do think there may be some justification in referring this back down and taking a look at it citywide in terms of the PO zone 00:24:16
and maybe if we want to look at C1 and C2, whatever you guys think? 00:24:22
I would be open to that discussion. That's all I'm saying. 00:24:28
Yeah, this kind of becomes the history that you're talking about, Paul, right? That makes us look at like this, this instance and 00:24:31
it being brought to our attention is what creates that. But I don't want to presume. 00:24:36
A response or presume an answer to that question. 00:24:43
Already as far as changing the change, well as far as this application and as far as what would be the contents of a development 00:24:47
agreement. 00:24:52
Because I'm not sure that we know all the details of what this theoretical development agreement would be. 00:24:57
Well, theoretically I think we kind of do, don't we haven't we talked about what we think would be all the parameters. We've 00:25:05
talked about, you know, grading the height, but do we have the specific specifics of that? Do we also have the specifics regarding 00:25:10
if there's going to be any change in set back? 00:25:14
No, my understanding isn't Kerry. You'll tell me if I'm wrong the way, the way I understand, the way a potential motion may be 00:25:20
drafted is to say. 00:25:25
The 10 foot front back remains the. 00:25:30
The 40 foot He. 00:25:33
Entitlement remains the same. Back to. 00:25:36
Halfway back on the property line, the 30 foot set back remains the same. 00:25:40
There's a 20 foot set back off of Sycamore, right? Which? 00:25:44
Now is that I'm not clear on on that set back is what would be the set back under APO zone application? 00:25:48
For a PO zone next to a residential zone, it's a 30 foot set back. It's an additional. 00:25:55
So in an RM zone, it's just 20 foot? No, no, I mean on Sycamore to the side set on the side, on the West side, yes, so. 00:26:04
Corner set back is 20 feet. OK, so the only the only thing that's the same as whether it was RM or PO is the same 20 foot. OK, so 00:26:15
the way I'm reading. 00:26:21
A potential development agreement. 00:26:27
The only change that would be made, as far as I could tell, at least in this development agreement, would be. 00:26:31
Saying look what we would like, what we would like is a is a 5 foot reduction in height. 00:26:36
From 40 to 35. 00:26:44
At the 50%? 00:26:46
Line in the in the width of the property. 00:26:48
Right. The 30 foot set back remains the same. The 20 foot set back remains the same. 00:26:52
The 10 foot set back remains the same from Murray Holiday Rd. So the only thing that changes is. 00:26:57
A drop down in height from 40 to 35 feet. At the halfway point, it just tapers it from 40 to 35 back into there, but that's it. 00:27:03
Which is the same thing. 00:27:07
Guidance wise, we would refer back to the Planning Commission and staff to take a look at more broadly citywide. 00:27:13
Right, that's what the way I'm considering it anyway. 00:27:22
Yeah, that's consistent with what I understand as well. 00:27:26
Is there something on that, Paul? 00:27:29
Well, are all parties already known to agree to that? Well, let's do this, Kerry, sorry to keep you on the spot, but we're going 00:27:32
to continue the public hearing in a minute. But the applicant is here. Would you like to? 00:27:38
Speak to it. 00:27:45
We don't want to put words in your mouth. 00:27:49
Come on, up the podium. 00:27:53
So first of all, I want to thank the neighbors because everybody's been very very. 00:27:56
Cooperative and there hasn't been nobody's yelled, nobody's, you know, egged our building or anything. So I'd like to thank David 00:28:02
and our neighbors. 00:28:07
For, you know, being. 00:28:12
Neighbors. 00:28:15
We, after I discussed this with my partners, we had agreed. 00:28:17
That rather than going. 00:28:24
On the, so the concept of the 50%. 00:28:27
In the P. 00:28:32
With a 40 foot height, we had agreed. 00:28:34
That a 50%, you know halfway up the lot line. So we think of it as 4 quadrants. We have the South quadrants on 2051 and 2061, we 00:28:38
have the North quadrants which about the neighbor. 00:28:45
So on the South. 00:28:54
We think. 00:28:56
Whatever the PO zone allows, the 40 foot, the 10 foot. 00:28:57
Set back the 40 foot height. 00:29:01
Should be allowed. We had agreed that. 00:29:04
For the North Quadrants. 00:29:08
If we the concept is if we wanted to build office. 00:29:10
It would be limited. 00:29:16
To 32. 00:29:18
On the north quadrant, if we build residential, it would be 35 feet. 00:29:21
Now with respect to the whether it's a 20 foot set back or a 30 foot set back at that point. 00:29:25
We're flexible. 00:29:31
But I would think if you. 00:29:33
If you drop the height that you could tighten the set back. 00:29:35
30 feet and. 00:29:39
32 or 35 so if we were to build more office. 00:29:42
It would be a 32 foot, we would agree. 00:29:46
If it's. 00:29:49
Multifamily or residential, it would be 35 feet. 00:29:50
And the set back would be. 00:29:54
Variable Either 20 or 30, Yeah. I mean, I don't know how the other council members feel. I'm not. 00:29:57
Really open to. 00:30:03
Messing around with the set back. 00:30:05
The 30 foot set back. 00:30:08
To shorten that. 00:30:11
No, I think that was put in place for a reason because it was a budding residential. And I don't want to shorten that up because I 00:30:14
think that'll just create a whole other can of worms that we're going to have to deal with, right. 00:30:19
So I think the development agreement could say if it's gonna be and if it's a 30 foot set back, it's a 30 foot set back, but if 00:30:25
it's if we're gonna build office. 00:30:29
Drop it to 32 feet if we're going to build residential 35 feet. 00:30:33
And that could be done in the development agreement. 00:30:38
I would, I mean so, but I mean I think what we're talking about is 35 feet because that's what allowed in the current room 00:30:41
entitlement, right. Whether you do office or residential will dictate whether you have conditions put on the if it's residential 00:30:47
they'll be, there'll be, it'll be conditional. 00:30:53
At that, you know, whereas in the traditional PO rezone you would be entitled to 40 feet on on that piece right there. So there's 00:31:31
a concession that you're making there and I would hope and think that that would be viewed favorably by all parties I guess. 00:31:39
Yeah. Whether you do under that scenario then wouldn't matter whether it was office or right. If you do, if you do office, it's an 00:31:48
entitled use under the zone. If you do residential, it's going to require conditional use that has to go back to neighbor. So 00:31:53
that's. 00:31:58
Except, you know. So that's where I'm at too, is. 00:32:04
I'm OK on just 35 feet because that's what didn't tile in the room zone, which you have right now, right. And the only other issue 00:32:08
is I think Carrie, I don't. 00:32:12
Want to doubt your measurements, but at 50% on the West side. 00:32:17