Live stream not working in Chrome or Edge? Click Here
No Bookmarks Exist.
We know everything's going to be right then. 00:00:13
Are we ready to go? 00:00:15
It's been a week. Welcome everybody, to the Holiday City Council meeting. We're gonna call a meeting to order if everybody please 00:00:21
rise for the pledge. 00:00:25
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. 00:00:29
To see the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:38
All right. Umm. 00:00:53
Gather my thoughts here. 00:00:57
Before we move to public comment, a couple of things. 00:01:00
Number one is we do have two public hearings tonight. I see some of our colleagues from the Historical Commission I'm sure here to 00:01:05
comment on on the preservation ordinance, item number 5. 00:01:11
And we also have a text amendment. 00:01:17
Proposed text amendment to the C2 zone that we have a public hearing on. So neither one of those items will be up for vote 00:01:22
tonight, but we will open up the public hearings and I'll probably make a decision about whether to close the rock based on what 00:01:28
we hear. I don't anticipate either one of those. I'm trying to remember, Gina, what we were planning on boats for these. I think 00:01:34
it depends on what we hear, but are we going to try to do it on the May 2nd or move them to the 16th? 00:01:40
So I don't think we've decided yet. We also explored the possibility of maybe the 9th, just expanding that from a work meeting. 00:01:47
OK I. 00:01:55
Yeah, I think I'm going to make a command decision here and say we push those to the 9th. I am not able to be here on the 2nd and 00:01:59
would like to be here for both those votes. I think it's important we have a full is everybody here on the 9th. 00:02:05
That we have a full Oh, you're not, are you here on the 16th? 00:02:12
Maybe we move to the 16th Gina. 00:02:20
I'd like to make sure we have a full council for those votes and I don't think either one of these issues is pressing. 00:02:23
In terms of getting it to a vote of the Council, So I'll just say right now that on both these public hearings, unless something, 00:02:30
unless I hear something different when we're discussing it. 00:02:35
We'll plan on for the May 16th Council Council meeting to agenda for a vote, so we'll open up those public hearings tonight. And 00:02:41
then if you want to stay and listen to the work meeting discussion, you're welcome to do that too. That will be after we recess 00:02:47
the regular council meeting. So if you're here to comment on either one of those issues, Please wait till we open up those public 00:02:52
hearings. 00:02:58
Everything else will be in public comment but before I get to public comment. 00:03:05
Let me just say briefly. 00:03:10
We had. 00:03:14
Large event in the city that I'm sure everybody's familiar with. I know the council is it's been all over the news. 00:03:16
I don't want to get into too much detail other than to say. 00:03:23
It it was a potentially catastrophic situation had we not luckily come across the store of dynamite that was found on that 00:03:28
property and I think everybody know how knows how it ended. I don't need to go into that detail, but I do want to take a minute to 00:03:34
thank. 00:03:40
Our partners, Chief Pilgrim was actually one of the chiefs on site along with Chief Dern that that kind of headed up the effort on 00:03:47
behalf of Unified Fire and our unified police partner, our precinct Chief Chief Oil was there for. 00:03:55
I don't know, probably 18 hours. 00:04:04
We had to evacuate a pretty large area, home by home on a sweep starting at 11:00 PM going to 1:45 AM, which was which was 00:04:08
challenging and we had 75 police officers in the city within about an hour. 00:04:17
Of a phone call and all sorts of UFA assets to include the being in the fortunate position of having a highly trained Hazmat team 00:04:27
and bomb squad team in Unified, we were supplemented with Salt Lake City, I believe Bomb squad. 00:04:35
Red Cross showed up. The county Emergency Management team showed up. 00:04:46
It was a complete team effort to. 00:04:51
Make sure everybody was safe, which was the overriding priority in the city once we were informed of what the event was and 00:04:55
started working with Unified on what their plan was to to detonate on Site I. 00:05:03
But I just. 00:05:11
I want to say it was really the benefit of being part of a unified police and unified fire team in action to see it all come 00:05:13
together. We often say you know, you remember that and you don't need it till you need it, but when you need it, you need it. And 00:05:20
it was on full display with the amount of assets we had on site, both police and fire and and being able to take care of it and we 00:05:27
feel badly about. 00:05:35
The property damage, you know, obviously, but nobody got hurt. 00:05:42
Nobody was killed and there's a. 00:05:49
Common opinion among some of the firefighters I talked to on the site that that, and I'll just say this had that had we not come 00:05:54
across those caches of Dynamite's. 00:06:00
When the EPA started inspecting the home and it had just something had happened on that at that home site without anybody knowing 00:06:07
it was there and had it ignited, it would have been a catastrophic event. I'll just say that based on what we witnessed to having 00:06:14
to detonate it on site. So we're going to hear a little bit more during the city manager report. Gina's going to talk a little bit 00:06:21
about kind of what the city's doing at this point. And I think Council Member Gray has some comments she wants to make. 00:06:28
But I just want to thank everybody. Lena was on site for many hours as well as Allison who's not here working with the county 00:06:36
emergency team. Emily was there all night. Yeah, just and I probably missed somebody. But thanks to everybody for for all their 00:06:43
good work and we're just very grateful that. 00:06:51
We found it at the problem has been taken care of, and it's been taken care of without any injury or death. That's the most 00:06:59
important thing. So anyway. 00:07:03
I'm going to leave it at that and then. 00:07:08
Thank you. 00:07:12
So with that and with the notes I gave you on the two public hearings, we're going to move to public comment. So if you are not 00:07:20
here to make public comment on either item five or six, the text amendment to C2 or the Historical Commission Preservation 00:07:26
Ordinance, now is your opportunity. The podium is open. Just give us your name and address. Try to keep it to 3 minutes or less 00:07:32
please, unless you're speaking on behalf of group public comments open. 00:07:39
Going once. 00:07:51
Come on up. Give us your name and address, please. 00:07:55
And I'm David Steffensen. I'm at 4538 Suncrest Drive. 00:07:57
I'm here about the fireworks again. I was here I think about a month ago. My understanding is you guys are voting today on the 00:08:04
proposed ordinance regarding the fireworks. 00:08:09
I just wanted to reiterate how much me and mine would really enjoy the opportunity to light fireworks and holiday again and to 00:08:14
enjoy that ability to celebrate the 4th of July with fireworks. I just think they're, they're inseparable at this point and I 00:08:21
would ask you to consider that as you vote. Thank you. 00:08:27
Thanks so much. 00:08:34
Anybody else? 00:08:38
OK, I don't see anybody else that wants to address the council and public comment. So I'll close public comment and move to item 00:08:44
number 4. This is public hearing on proposed amendments Title 13.62, Building Heights in the C2 Zone Staff report is in the 00:08:51
packet. It's not a difficult issue. It's basically raising the proposed text amendment is to raise the height in the C2 zone from 00:08:58
35 feet to 40 feet. 00:09:05
And we'll have John come up. If you, John, do you want to review this with the council and then we'll. 00:09:15
I see, Mr. Leighton, here's Are you going to speak on behalf of the applicant? 00:09:20
OK. 00:09:24
Application to amend C2 Heights has been received by the Community Economic Development Department and heard by the Planning 00:09:27
Commission. 00:09:31
Planning Commission had a favorable recommendation forwarded to the City Council with some pretty general requests to study maybe 00:09:35
and consider architecture and using the Design Review Board as one of those types of committees to review. 00:09:45
Building design in your commercial zones, especially when we start considering raising this the height. 00:09:55
That was essentially the the notion from the Planning Commission on that recommendation to you. Applicant will give you some more 00:10:02
details to the need for this extra height, but overall, your C2 heights really haven't been changed at all since incorporation. 00:10:10
There is some some exhibits in your packet that shows what other cities are doing about budding. You know whether that holds merit 00:10:18
to you. It did with the Planning Commission. They requested that that study be done. 00:10:25
So that you know in context what other cities have as far as heights. 00:10:32
So, and I'll be happy to answer any other questions, but most of it would be from the applicant himself. 00:10:38
I don't think there's a question, John. It's more just a comment based on the staff report that and I'm sure we're going to hear 00:10:44
the justification from the applicant that clears it up for the council. But it there's a restriction of three floors in the C2 00:10:50
zone, it doesn't change that. So it doesn't give any future applicant and ability to add a fourth floor to get more density. 00:10:57
There's obviously a reason why you know going up five feet is important to. 00:11:03
What they can do, which I'm sure we're going to hear, but just for my clarification because I can't remember the at 35 or 40 feet, 00:11:10
what does does that allow like mechanical structure or can anything go above that or is that it? Oh, above above that roof, right. 00:11:17
There are some things parapets and mechanical. 00:11:23
Stairways that exit to the roof. Emergency exits, the elevator shafts. Those can go above. 00:11:32
But the roof deck where you're standing on is at 40 feet. 00:11:37
OK. 00:11:41
All right. Well. 00:11:43
Open up for if you've got, do you have a question? I just have one question on the Planning Commission's vote. Was that unanimous 00:11:45
that they all approved? Yes or recommended? Yeah, that's OK. Thank you. 00:11:50
I had a question as well. I was wondering if you could speak to it all. What kind of architectural standards were they 00:11:55
recommending? Is that piece what they wanted us to look at, Like what they? Yeah, they referred to Holiday, Crossroads Zone and 00:12:01
the village. 00:12:06
The holiday crossroads zone is sort of a hybrid of what the architectural standards are for the village itself. 00:12:13
The village is very focused on Utah historic type vernacular. The holiday crossroad zone is a little more loose. 00:12:18
But they pointed to those two zones as an example. 00:12:27
Nothing really, in particular. 00:12:31
I would be interested in looking at that and to create a unified field throughout the different areas myself. 00:12:33
Sure. So if you're interested as a council. 00:12:40
Direct staff to study those and bring those back at a later date, we definitely can. 00:12:44
OK. Thanks, John. 00:12:50
So, Chris, do you want to come up and talk about this a little bit? I think what would be helpful to the council is maybe to 00:12:52
understand what the benefit of that five feet is in terms of a design. I think that's the issue, right? 00:12:58
Yes, yeah, I think. 00:13:05
Go ahead, Paul. 00:13:08
Did I say 3? The reason that this has come to light and it's not just something that came out of the blue on one project and we 00:13:09
want some special consideration for it, This is. 00:13:15
Something that I see as an architect. First of all, I should probably state that Chris Layton. 00:13:21
3200 E 39th South A proud resident of Holiday City. 00:13:28
Yeah, that too. And as a Planning Commissioner, we saw a lot of challenges with this limitation and and and This is why. 00:13:34
More and more and I think it's a real benefit to the city. We're seeing a lot of mixed-use projects and currently in the C2 zone 00:13:46
it allows for mixed-use projects, it allows for three stories of projects. But what it doesn't allow within the height limitation 00:13:55
right now in my opinion and I I think general opinion, it doesn't allow for qualitative. 00:14:04
Design of those spaces, the floor to floors are so compacted that we're seeing a lot of opportunities where we have retail, office 00:14:14
and residential as a mixed product which is I I think you've you've seen around the village already it it it's something that 00:14:22
isn't going away, it's something that's that allows for. 00:14:30
More dwelling units to be added in a in a more commercial zone. 00:14:39
But the mathematics of it, are we simply between? 00:14:45
For a good quality commercial space, we really need 14 to 15 or 14 to 16 feet floor to floor for residential or office spaces. 12 00:14:51
feet 10 is is tight and So what we found is you're either trying to sandwich the quality of spaces that. 00:15:02
That we're allowed to have in this zone, and there are great needs for the city, but they're just not done in a way where 00:15:14
mechanical systems and structural systems and everything can really be done well. This isn't part of a creeping concept where, 00:15:23
well, let's see if we can get it up to 40 this this way. It's just a rational distance and a rational increase that allows for. 00:15:32
I think current architectural designs and programs. 00:15:43
OK. Thank you. Any questions for Mr. 00:15:49
Do you mind pulling up the there's a map in there that shows where the C2 zones are? Thanks, Chris. Appreciate it. 00:15:54
I think it's just so we can see that too, because there's just not a lot of it. It's not like all over the place. It's pretty, 00:16:00
it's a pretty isolated zone. 00:16:05
All right. Any questions for the open the public hearing? OK. 00:16:12
We are going to open the public hearing on this text Momentum. Is there anybody from the audience that's here to comment? 00:16:19
On this text amendment. 00:16:25
Sorry, Mayor, can we go back for just a second? On that map, it looks like the holiday Crossroads area in red. 00:16:29
The current height restrictions on that area is 32 to 58 feet, so that would not be affected by. 00:16:37
This C2 that's the HCR portions that have converted so far. 00:16:44
OK. Because not the whole place hasn't converted, I think it's slated to, right. So if someone did start a redevelopment there 00:16:49
they'd they can go to the 32 to 58 pre apply for HCR and then get those. But my point is, is that that area is a separate zone. So 00:16:56
it would not be affected by this. It would be affected by this until there's a zone change. So you, John, you'll correct me, but 00:17:03
the little white piece you see there has been rezoned to HCR. 00:17:11
Which next to Wendy's. So they could go to 58 feet. Got it. The rest of it remains C2 until an applicant would come in and request 00:17:18
the zone change. So yeah, it would affect all of those. If we made this text amendment, they could now go to 40 feet. If they 00:17:25
wanted to go to 58 feet one, it would depend on where it is in the zone, but they would have to actually come in and apply for the 00:17:31
zone change. Did I get that right? OK. 00:17:37
Thanks for the clarification. 00:17:44
OK, so now the public hearing is open. Well, did I open it already? 00:17:48
Yeah, so anybody here to comment on this issue? 00:17:52
Or this. We had crickets before, so yeah, OK, all right. I think I'm just going to close this public hearing then and we'll move 00:17:57
on to item number 5. 00:18:01
So this is the public hearing on proposed Amendments Title 13. This is historic historic preservation ordinance to amend the Code. 00:18:07
This also is in the packet and has been through the Planning Commission. 00:18:14
And there's pretty detailed. 00:18:20
Presentation on what this proposes to change in the current ordinance. John, I don't know if you want to give us a. 00:18:23
Any kind of overview on this? 00:18:30
Sure. Really quickly. 00:18:33
Basically, where the Planning Commission is recommending Planning Commission did recommend the amendment text as the DRA is 00:18:36
drafted in front of you. There's a couple of highlighted sections in that draft text in yellow. 00:18:41
Specifically, the list of addresses at the beginning and then toward the end. 00:18:47
In the legislative process section. 00:18:53
We highlighted that two portions that talked about when a property that has been added to your historic designations list. 00:18:56
What occurs during the public process, either during the meetings or the hearings when the property is requested to be delisted, 00:19:05
so to speak. The question is whether or not that is a public comment type situation or is that just a public meeting that the 00:19:11
applicant can come to the Planning Commission or sorry, the City Council, they have that property removed. 00:19:17
It was a collective opinion from the Planning Commission that should be. 00:19:24
Public comment during that public meeting situation. So the idea is that we would mail out a certain distance invite comment in 00:19:28
when this applicant is requesting their property be removed from that list. 00:19:34
The staff really didn't feel either strongly either way. I think that from my point of view, inviting public comment when a 00:19:43
property owner wants to have their property delisted as could be inviting some contention that from before that property owner and 00:19:48
then specifically. 00:19:53
But the plan from the Planning Commission's point of view, they thought that process is was helpful. 00:19:59
The highlighted properties on your list, those came directly from your General Plan. Those have been properties that have been 00:20:04
identified in your General Plan since 2015. 00:20:09
And we added those in there because it made sense. Now adding those properties in there do not include. 00:20:15
Them going through the process of applying and that was one of the intent, one of the main. 00:20:24
In goals of this amendment was to create a process that the property owner can bring their properties. 00:20:29
Once it's been federally designated or his state statutorily designated as historic to the Planning City Council for adding those 00:20:36
those properties to list. So adding them now sort of circumvents that so that we can leave that up to this the planet City Council 00:20:42
of what they would like to do with those addresses. 00:20:49
Additionally, the Planning Commission gave a list of other things to consider, specifically what to do with once decisions are 00:20:57
made. Do we record those against the property? 00:21:02
Creating a nominal fee for the application itself, Something that's approachable. 00:21:10
That's not so expensive, like a rezone or a text amendment, so to speak. 00:21:16
The involvement of the historic committee. 00:21:22
And there was one other one. I can't remember what that one was, but they've given you a list to consider and however, we as staff 00:21:24
have not made amendments to that draft including those recommendations. We'll take direction from the Council later as you deem 00:21:29
necessary. 00:21:35
OK. Any any questions for John? 00:21:43
I'll reserve mine for the work meeting. 00:21:47
Thanks, John. 00:21:52
We can ask him any questions too as this goes along if we need to, so we'll open up this public hearing. 00:21:53
I see there's a number of people here. They're probably interested in this topic and you can take your 3 minutes, or if there's if 00:22:01
you're speaking on behalf of a group and you want to take five. I'm assuming your opinions are going to be, you know, pretty 00:22:06
consistent in terms of what your ask is going to be. So but it's your time. So however you want to handle it, just again, name and 00:22:11
address and. 00:22:16
Come on up. 00:22:23
I'm Kim Duffy. I live at 2195 E Walker Lane. I'm vice chair of the Historical Commission. 00:22:29
And I'm speaking on behalf of other historical Commissioners and also two that are not here today. Can we, can we get just for our 00:22:36
Council? 00:22:40
Who is she speaking on behalf of? Just raise your hand so we know kind of get a sense of how many people you're talking. 00:22:45
Thank you. And then Ron Hilton, who couldn't be here, well, thank you for saying that because I do have, we do have an e-mail from 00:22:54
Ron Hilton on file and the council all has it so. 00:23:01
So thanks for reminding me. OK, go ahead. OK, good. I'm going to talk about two things tonight. One is the new ordinances, which 00:23:08
are like the old ordinances except that they exclude the holiday Historical Commission. 00:23:15
The other thing I'm going to talk about is the programs that the Commission has done in the last two years, which is why they 00:23:22
shouldn't be excluded from the new ordinances. OK, thing one. 00:23:27
And he just referenced that the eight houses that were listed. 00:23:34
I know each of these houses. I've been inside most of these houses. I'm in touch with the owners of these houses once or twice a 00:23:40
year. 00:23:44
According to Holiday's code, the Historical Commission is to provide advice and information to the city manager regarding 00:23:48
identification and protection of historic resources. Am I right about that? 00:23:53
We were not invited or involved in writing these new ordinances, and the result is one of the houses you listed won't qualify 00:24:02
under your new ordinances because the house has been moved from its original site. 00:24:08
Another won't qualify because the principal facade was drastically altered last year. One house was demolished in January and 00:24:14
another, the homeowner is resistant to participating in holiday preservation events and may be surprised and irritated at their 00:24:22
inclusion on your list. And we would have given you a heads up on that if we had been invited to do so. 00:24:29
Okay Under Section F Criteria #3, qualifying structures must be associated with either events of historic significance, the lives 00:24:41
of important historic persons, or buildings that exhibit significant construction or materials. 00:24:48
These are similar to the National Register's qualification, with which I'm familiar. I wrote the nomination for our house and have 00:24:57
read every National Register nomination for holidays buildings. So I ask who at the city is going to decide whether buildings meet 00:25:02
your criteria? 00:25:07
Is city staff as familiar with holidays, history or National Register qualifications as are our commissioners? 00:25:13
So why are we being excluded? 00:25:20
During the Planning Commission meeting April 2, there were questions about how city staff will decide whether proposed changes to 00:25:22
a building will match the vernacular of the original house. 00:25:27
Staff said that the Salt Lake County assessor has files with photos that can be used for comparison. 00:25:32
I know from experience that files outside Salt Lake City proper only include photos and about 50% of cases. 00:25:38
So how will these requests be evaluated? I have in my photo library right now probably more than 200 images of historic holiday 00:25:45
houses and what they look like today, or five years ago, or 10 years ago. Another of our members is a realtor and has countless 00:25:51
images available to her. Why wouldn't this resource be tapped? 00:25:57
I have long standing associations with the State history office, Utah historians, preservationists, architects and an 00:26:05
archaeologist that I routinely call on. 00:26:10
When I want to understand a property, isn't this real time knowledge useful to the city? 00:26:15
The new ordinances list qualifiers to add buildings to the Holiday Register. One qualifier is the National Register, which is 00:26:21
great. The other qualifier is the State historic designation. 00:26:27
If you had involved us, we would have told you that the state register hasn't been active since 1979 and no longer adds 00:26:33
properties. 00:26:37
The 30 day pause for documenting a property. This is great. We've been suggesting this for months. 00:26:42
My question is, who is going to document the properties? City staff can't be expected to have the expertise on matters of holiday 00:26:48
history and historical architecture that they'd be expected to in order to review. So will taxpayers foot the bill to hire an 00:26:53
architectural historian? 00:26:58
On the other hand, there are members of the Holiday Commission, Historical Commission who have lived in this community for 70 plus 00:27:05
years, others whose ancestors homesteaded swaths of holiday, another whose National Register house has been occupied by their 00:27:10
family for 140 years. 00:27:16
There's a Utah State University professor, a member who Co sponsored a drive that saved U.S. Open space while sat Hollow and sugar 00:27:22
House. 00:27:26
Another member who has published articles on businesses, neighborhoods and on preservation. A software engineer and an expert on 00:27:30
mid century architecture who knows nearly every interesting house and holiday. Why aren't these? 00:27:37
Resources being sought, I've got to grab my water. 00:27:45
OK. 00:28:04
Thing two Now I'm going to tell you what the Historical Commission has done which demonstrates their abilities and knowledge and 00:28:06
why you shouldn't cut them out of the process. 00:28:10
The Commission's goal is not to abscond with people's property rights. 00:28:15
The goal has been to educate the public about our historic treasures to this point in the last few years the Commission has 00:28:20
created. 00:28:24
The speaker series, which hundreds of citizens attend. Three of our speakers did fresh research on holiday which we've provided to 00:28:29
the city. 00:28:33
May Preservation, which is a program we thought up last year. For those of you who are unfamiliar, we placed green signs with the 00:28:38
holiday City logo and text that said, read the story of this house. 00:28:44
Viewers could scan a QR code and read about the buildings they were looking at and also about the historic figures who lived 00:28:51
there. 00:28:54
We did 10 buildings last year and owners told me they enjoyed watching people standing on the sidewalk reading about their 00:28:58
building. 00:29:01
This year we're doing 30 buildings. I suggested to our chair Sandy that we add legacy businesses as well who've been operating for 00:29:06
50 plus years in holiday. 00:29:10
Jeff Barnard, the owner of the Cotton Bottom, said don't put up a sign, put up 8 signs. He was so excited about this project and 00:29:16
he, he and like many homeowners and business owners, are proud of their place and glad someone is noticing them. This outreach 00:29:22
reflects well on the city of holiday. 00:29:28
I'm going to leave you with a draft of a document that viewers will see in our Read the story of this building project. 00:29:35
This document is 46 pages long and this research took months to complete. 00:29:44
As I've gone around to houses that are on the National Register, I hear that very few have ever seen their National Registered 00:30:26
document. These documents are detailed histories of the building and the people, all of the people who live there over the 00:30:32
lifetime of the building. 00:30:37
They're like little short stories, and they're full of documented, footnoted holiday history. So this year we're giving each 00:30:43
National Register household a copy of their document. 00:30:48
Not all National Register homeowners know about the 20% state tax breaks they could have been receiving in one woman's case for 00:30:54
decades. 00:30:58
So I've been explaining to homeowners and helping them understand how to save on their tax bills. 00:31:04
Some homeowners are wary of placing their house on the National Register, fearing it will affect their property rights. I've been 00:31:09
explaining to people that this designation is honorific and in no way effects their property right. 00:31:15
Last week, the management of our Instagram account was returned to us. 00:31:26
And we began posting historic photos from our speakers. 00:31:31
We've gotten a big bump in viewers, people reaching out to ask questions. 00:31:34
To claim it was their amp that was riding the horse across the lake of the Cottonwood Club. 00:31:39
There's dissension about who it was. 00:31:44
And these, once again, I think these interactions reflect well on the city. 00:31:47
As part of my preservation, we hired David Amet for Part 2 of the grand Estates of Holiday. He'll be speaking on May 13. This will 00:31:52
include the Bambergers, the Walkers and the Dreyfus families. David has been working on this for months, meeting with the families 00:31:58
at their homes and offices, and creating fresh research and photographs. He also wrote the nomination for the George and Lyda 00:32:05
Walker House, which was accepted to the National Register this year. 00:32:11
During his lecture on May 13, we will have an art show. 00:32:19
Kathy Murphy and I dreamed up the idea to send painters around the city to paint our historic houses. As you know, we lost Kathy 00:32:23
Murphy this year, so Becky Rock from the Arts Commission, Megan and I finalized this project and we're calling it the Kathy Murphy 00:32:29
Historic Holiday Invitational. 00:32:34
Painters have been out in the city for weeks. These paintings will hang in the auditorium May 13 for David's lecture, then will be 00:32:40
moved to relics for sale. Percentages of the proceeds will be shared with our commissions. 00:32:46
So these are the new programs in holiday in just the last two years and I was happy to tell the Planning Commission about these on 00:32:54
April 2nd. 00:32:58
After my comments. 00:33:02
It was gratifying to hear that the new ordinances that explicitly, explicitly exclude the historic Commission didn't make sense to 00:33:04
planning commissioners either, one commissioner questioned. So, staff, can you tell me, how does a historical Commission work in 00:33:10
this process? 00:33:16
The answer was they do not. 00:33:22
Commissioner asked. To me that seems a little odd where they could add some expertise. I mean, they're doing all the work as far 00:33:25
as historical properties in the city. Why wouldn't we tap them? 00:33:30
Answer was that the historical commission's responsibilities don't transfer to this update. 00:33:36
Commissioner asked explicitly. I'm wondering if Council may want to reconsider them just having a role as part of it. Would it be 00:33:42
possible, at least from where we talk about listing and delisting of properties, could we at least involve them and let them know 00:33:47
that that's happening? 00:33:53
And then there was another question right after that, one of the commissioners said. Is there a rush? 00:34:00
And the answer was May is the National Historic Preservation Month. So we'd like to have something that's appropriate in whatever 00:34:07
format so they can work the details out and have that approved by May. 00:34:14
To be clear, there was number May preservation month in holiday before we created it last year. 00:34:21
It doesn't make sense to rush into may ordinances, omitting the very people who know Holiday's history and who have created these 00:34:28
popular programs. 00:34:33
Voila. 00:34:39
Then I have these. 00:34:40
And I don't know to whom I give these. This is the draft document of all of the. 00:34:43
All of the houses and all of the histories. I've included a historic photo and a present day photo of each house. There are about 00:34:50
30 of them and five businesses. 00:34:55
And. 00:35:01
Meghan's working on this right now. She's creating a website so that it'll be easy to access when people scan the QR code. So to 00:35:03
whom shall I give these? How many copies do you have? It's 2 copies that are one of them has the the map of the home tour and the 00:35:10
other one is a rough draft and they it is a rough draft. So just know that it's it's not perfect yet. 00:35:17
E-mail. 00:35:26
And then this is, this is Ron Hiltons comments. Yeah we have that. 00:35:29
Thank you very much. Thanks for your time. 00:35:35
Hey, it's still open. 00:35:44
My name is Camille Pierce. 00:35:58
I live at 2052 E Arbor Lane. 00:36:01
My home was originally built in 1938. 00:36:07
And in 1957, a careful addition was made. 00:36:12
It belonged to the prominent Dinwiddie family known for their long standing Dinwoody fine furniture. 00:36:19
The home sits on 1 1/2 acres a property, and Big Cottonwood Creek runs along the entire backside of this property. 00:36:28
We have substantial mature vegetation. 00:36:39
In a variety of flower gardens. 00:36:43
We have invested money and love by replacing all the plumbing. 00:36:47
Burying utility lines, installing solar panels. 00:36:55
Doing seismic strengthening. 00:37:00
Doing radon mitigation as well as maintaining the buildings and the yard. 00:37:03
It's all in really good condition. 00:37:10
We have already spent. 00:37:14
Close to $7000. 00:37:19
Working with an architectural firm to try and create a means of protection. 00:37:23
And preservation for this historical property. 00:37:28
We have contacted the Utah Historical Society and the state's Historical Preservation Office. 00:37:32
We've talked with some of the City Holidays Historic Committee members. 00:37:39
We've consulted with a well known historical professional architect. 00:37:44
We've been encouraged by that person that our home does have historical value. 00:37:51
We have watched every single home. 00:37:57
That's been sold, be demolished. 00:38:00
About 25 or 30 of them, something like that in our general neighborhood. 00:38:05
With very little of those materials being recycled before being taken to the dump. 00:38:11
That vegetation on these properties is typically sent to the chipper. 00:38:18
Only the empty land surface is valued. 00:38:24
It seems that only new building is valued. 00:38:30
Yet building new homes has harmful effects. 00:38:35
The cement industry pumped 2.6 billion metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year. 00:38:40
And the CO2 is in large part creating climate change. 00:38:50
We want a way to preserve our home. 00:38:59
The trees, the plantings and the property for the future. 00:39:04
It represents styles and a special time and holiday when living in nature was a respite from the stresses of city living in Salt 00:39:09
Lake. 00:39:15
Thank you. 00:39:22
Thank you. 00:39:24
My name is Steve Glaser. I live at 2052 E Arbor Lane. 00:39:45
And I want to speak to 1 portion of the ordinance. 00:39:50
That's being proposed. 00:39:56
Relating to the listing of homes or also potentially permitting. 00:39:58
The demolition of homes that have been listed. 00:40:03
And if you're having the whole point of listing from my perspective is that. 00:40:07
You're going to say I value this home. I want it to continue after I no longer own it. I can control what happens. I don't need 00:40:14
any kind of listing to make sure that the home stands as long as I'm living there. 00:40:22
This is something to. 00:40:30
That's going to bind future property owners and return. I'm going to take. 00:40:33
A cut in the amount of money I can sell the house for. 00:40:39
But if the person who buys it can then turn around and say I'd like to apply to delist it or to demolish it. 00:40:43
This just becomes a vehicle for swindling me. 00:40:51
Or, you know, maybe the person who buys it from me is all good intentions and they follow through, but the person they sell it to. 00:40:54
And when they've made that sale, they also sold it for reduced property value, so I don't understand why. 00:41:03
Someone could be permitted to delist it to demolish A. 00:41:10
Building that has been listed. 00:41:15
And I think that should be removed from the ordinance. 00:41:18
And one thing that I could imagine is, well, what if the structure has been allowed to deteriorate over time? 00:41:23
I've heard somebody refer to this, as you know, demolition by neglect. 00:41:31
And yeah, that is problematic. And I think the. 00:41:36
One solution to it is you then say well there has to be a fee. 00:41:41
The application. It probably goes beyond the $500 fee. 00:41:47
So that. 00:41:52
There can be periodic inspections and, if necessary, legal enforcement to ensure that that building is maintained. 00:41:54
So. 00:42:03
I am requesting that portions I I don't know. Let me preface this by saying I don't know how that applies to. 00:42:05
Buildings. Homes that are already on the list, but going forward. 00:42:14
I'm requesting that the language that allows the listing that allows demolition be struck. Thank you. Thank you. 00:42:19
Anybody else for? 00:42:36
Public input on the preservation ordinance. 00:42:37
Any. 00:42:43
Any input from Counts on keeping this public hearing open or? 00:42:45
So from a process perspective, at what point would it be appropriate to ask? 00:42:52
Like for example Miss Duffy her she had a number of points with where there was a. 00:42:57
Where there was the advice like seeking advice of the historical Commission was limited in some areas that she thought it might 00:43:02
not, that it might be appropriate. At what point, how, how would this go? I guess is is my question at what point would we be 00:43:09
voting on this ordinance and listen to things, Well not having heard our discussion in the work session where we'll probably get 00:43:15
in a little bit more into the weeds, it's we're we're tentatively kind of planning on May 16th about this. So we have a full 00:43:21
council. So I'd assume. 00:43:28
That's when we would vote it, but that issue I would think we will be handling at least in part during the work session tonight. 00:43:35
When we talk about public hearings, but to follow up on Ty's question if that process results in recommendations of significant 00:43:43
amendment. 00:43:48
Would it be appropriate to leave the public hearing open to address those potentialities to allow the public to comment? Yeah, I 00:43:53
think so. That would be my only, I'd say close it except for that possibility. Then I don't know whether or not there will be, but 00:44:00
it's there's certainly not potential. OK. So we'll leave this public hearing open. So we'll continue to take comment on it and if 00:44:06
if you wish to stay, we'll be discussing this in the work session here shortly. 00:44:13
But so public hearing remains open on this particular item. 00:44:21
OK. Thank you. 00:44:26
Item number. 00:44:29
6. 00:44:32
OK. Yeah, the Animal Services, we're moving to the next agenda or whatever, whenever it's appropriate to replace on the agenda. 00:44:33
That brings us to item number seven. Am I on course here? Umm. 00:44:42
This is the zone change at 6370 S Highland Drive from room to PO. I think we work through this pretty thoroughly at last council 00:44:47
meeting. I don't think there's many outstanding issues, but if there are any questions or concerns. 00:44:54
I'll open it up to the Council before we take a motion. 00:45:02
There being none, I'd be happy to take a motion, Mayor. I'd move that we. 00:45:09
Improve Orden. Excuse me or Resolution 2024-4? Excuse me. 00:45:14
2024. 00:45:21
Ordinance to their tie Ordinance 202405. 00:45:24
Amending the zoning map for property located at 6375 S Highland Drive from RM to PO. 00:45:29
2nd. 00:45:35
OK, motion and a second will go to vote on this one. Council Member Brewer, yes. Councilmember Durham, yes. Council Member 00:45:37
Fotheringham, yes. Councilmember Quinn, yes. Councilmember Gray, yes. And chair votes, yes. That zone change is approved. Thank 00:45:45
you, Council. I'm anticipating just a little discussion on the fireworks ordinance. I think the development agreement is pretty 00:45:52
non controversial at this point. That's my sense. Would there be an objection to take the agenda out of order and handle #9 first? 00:45:59
So moved. 00:46:08
Second motion. Second, all in favor, say aye aye. And so we'll take item number 9. This is consideration of resolution 2024-14. 00:46:11
This is the development agreement with Holiday LLC for property located at 2051 and 2061 Murray Holiday Rd. It was a pretty simple 00:46:19
change to that zone to put some conditions on it. It's in your packet. There was only one question and that was to plug in the 00:46:26
actual distances in the ordinance where there was an X&Y reference. 00:46:34
And let's see. 00:46:45
I think that's where it has been done, yeah. 00:46:48
Any further questions on this item? 00:46:53
Happy to take a motion. 00:46:57
Mayor I move approval of Resolute Resolution 2024-14, approving a development agreement with 2061 Holiday LLC. 00:47:00
For property located at 2051 and 2061 Murray Holiday Rd. 00:47:10
Have a motion and a second go to vote. Councilmember Brewer, yes. Councilmember Durham, yes. Councilmember Fotheringham yes. 00:47:16
Councilmember Quinn yes. Councilmember Gray, yes. And Chair votes Yes. That development agreement is proved. Thank you. 00:47:23
Thank you, Jack to item number 8, Consideration of Ordinance 2024-06, Restricting the use of personal Fireworks. 00:47:32
We have a Chief Pilgrim here in place of Chief Chief Larson or Fire Marshall. 00:47:41
We discussed this in the pre meeting and this basically is. 00:47:47
A discussion about what restrictions we want to have in holiday this coming year now that the drought conditions have basically 00:47:53
basically subsided a bit. 00:47:57
Chief, Yes, so we've talked about that. And obviously, we always are going to err on the side of public safety. 00:48:03
We've taken a sandstone with the state sheets in Utah, but in our local communities that we obviously will advocate for. 00:48:11
Restrictions. 00:48:18
They're definitely interested public safety and it does make our job a little bit safer during that time of year, but we also know 00:48:20
this is a decision that's up to every individual council. 00:48:24
As they assume or or make an assessment of the risk of they're also going to take during those seasons. So the statute is pretty 00:48:29
clear. I mean the the fire service, the fire department, our fire Marshall make a recommendation which right now that is kind of 00:48:34
maintaining the current restrictions but. 00:48:40
Yes, the Council is open to make decisions. 00:48:46
That they feel in the best interest of the city given the current conditions. You know obviously we were removed from drought 00:48:51
that's should be taken into consideration and you know the the the restrictions that we do have in place right now are based off 00:48:58
of I believe 2021 when we did kind of a valley wide effort on restricting fireworks across the board because of the current. 00:49:05
Weather and drought situation, so the math that you still have. 00:49:12
Within the city with your restrictions is based off of that and things have changed since then. I personally fight the risk is 00:49:17
reduced but again our our obviously our stance will always be to. 00:49:22
Promote and encourage restrictions, but allow you to make that decision. 00:49:29
Achieve a little history just to remind us, so was it in 2021 when we had significant drought conditions where the recommendation, 00:49:35
recommend, the current recommendation was more than a recommendation of the time, was it, it was based off necessity We we were in 00:49:42
a pretty dire situation and our challenges, you know I'm sorry, my question was it's a recommendation now was it a recommendation 00:49:49
then or was it a sorry no can do we're in drought? 00:49:57
Recommendations then as well. So, OK. So back then it was just a extreme recommendation. Yes, that was definitely, it was a 00:50:04
please, please, please recommendation, but still just a recommendation not a statute that we were required to. Yes. And I do 00:50:10
believe in the previous year and that year the fire Marshall or the state forester did restrict fire statewide. So it's based off 00:50:16
of that as well previous year, the five year recognition, right, the two years at that time the state forester had made 00:50:22
recommendations. 00:50:28
In previous years to restrict all over that that principle of the two of the last five years and what what the logic of that is to 00:50:34
the last five years, it allows for a little bit of freedom to make that decision right instead of locking you down to this is just 00:50:40
how it is you can take. 00:50:45
We're definitely always look at the most extreme years within those five years, if that makes sense, just because that does 00:51:24
provide the added public safety and deterrent. On that note of areas where there are extreme fire problems, do you have data or 00:51:31
does Chief Brown have data on the number of fires caused by fireworks in the city of holiday for the last few years? I don't hear 00:51:37
what you we can get that pretty easily, OK? 00:51:43
Are you familiar with what other cities in the county have done with respect to the recommendation of the? 00:51:50
Fire authority, yes. Within UFA, I'm very familiar. Mill Creek is staying at the 9th E line which was established in that 2021 00:51:57
effort and to go back to the not to belabor the point but in 2021 the all the municipalities on the east side of Salt Lake. 00:52:05
Valley decided to do this 9th E line, so it goes from Salt Lake City Court to Draper just in kind of a unified effort to restrict 00:52:14
fireworks in a very extreme situation within unified fire authority. Mill Creek is keeping the same restrictions. 00:52:21
They felt that restriction for their community was a little too restrictive, and they wanted to allow fireworks in places where 00:53:04
traditionally they're safe to be used. There's still quite a few restrictions in College Heights, but they're on open space. 00:53:09
Per statute, while in urban interface areas, 200 feet within waterways ravines all that and then I'll see the foothills where we 00:53:16
have the biggest problem. 00:53:20
Is there a statutory definition of? 00:53:25
Urban interface areas, yeah. And the way it's written in here. 00:53:28
It's basically the. It's really simple. It's. 00:53:34
Especially the zone where structures or other human development meet or intermega with undeveloped wildland. So for us it wouldn't 00:53:38
be like one lot in the city that has open space weeds or nothing on it. It'd be an area that's like a maybe an undeveloped park, a 00:53:44
wild area. And some areas like walking land is a good example which has traditionally been restricted that in my opinion and I've 00:53:50
done Wildland forever 23 years and it's kind of my my platform, my expertise. Walker Lane is probably classified as an interface 00:53:56
area. 00:54:02
Just because of the challenges we have getting in there without press and in the matter of apparatus and firefighters would take 00:54:09
to suppress a fire and just the vegetation within the home. So that's a traditional kind of like not mountains and houses, but an 00:54:15
area in an urban setting that would have a high, high, high fire risk. Thank you. 00:54:20
Chief, have you seen the map that the areas that holiday had restricted previous 2021, Do you feel like those areas or those the 00:54:27
areas in holiday that would qualify as that urban interface area? Yeah, when I looked at that before, I mean I have to look at it 00:54:33
again today, but when I I recall that map, it was very accurate. It was done with a lot of thought and it didn't encompass those 00:54:40
areas I would personally have concerns with. 00:54:46
And it's hard to rule mob. You know the challenge with that is especially the Collinwood Heights and Holiday where I can speak to 00:54:53
both of those is they're not clearly defined areas. They kind of wind around they there there's interface and there's not. And so 00:55:00
it makes it kind of challenging for the areas of being forced and it makes it confusing for the residents. We have kind of sneaky 00:55:08
areas that are restricted in that or not So that the value of having more broad restrictions or a clear delineated kind of boxes. 00:55:15
Is easier for the citizens to understand what's restricted and it reduces confusion. So when you start getting a little more 00:55:23
detailed on the maps, it allows for more, but it makes it more challenging for us and sometimes the citizens as well, so. 00:55:29
So on this. 00:55:37
So just to be sure I understood then on this five year rule where the two most recent years have been high water years, those 00:55:39
would carry the most weight then right is essentially what what what we're saying is that right the way I share that is you as a 00:55:45
council have the discretion to pick your two years. 00:55:52
I think those would be, in my opinion would be safe to use. Again, there is a have historically high fire danger typically always 00:55:58
aired on the side of caution. Yeah. So I feel you know you have the ability to decide what you want to do for your city, but that 00:56:04
in my opinion would be a prudent thing to consider. 00:56:10
Mapped it out their GIS specialists on what I felt we. 00:56:50
By the end of the month, end of April. 00:57:23
They gave you a little grace period into May, but the maps have to be in to the county so they can be printed on June 1st so they 00:57:27
can go on display for the public. 00:57:31
When you did this effort for Cottonwood Heights, was that then at the request of their City Council or I took that upon myself. I 00:57:38
have kind of the, the. 00:57:43
Philosophy or approach of their city manager, mind and public feedback and council. 00:57:49
Guidance or thoughts, I took all that into consideration when I went through and checked these areas and there are definitely new 00:57:55
developments and things have changed where restrictions were no longer necessary and the council members would hear from their 00:58:01
constituents and share that with me. Hey, we've had this feedback and you go look at this and so at the at the city managers 00:58:07
discretion, I'd go check that out and a lot of those we were able to change on the map, so. 00:58:13
Yeah, I think, I mean, essentially what's in front of the council is, do we want to? 00:58:20
Continue with the ban east of 1300 E, which we have the right to do based on the input we've received from the Fire Marshall. 00:58:25
Or do we think that based on the current conditions? 00:58:34
And in the spirit spirit of state legislation, which was really addressing a severe drought issue. 00:58:40
Do we revert back? And if we revert back I mean other thing is. 00:58:46
I mean if you can picture holiday in your mind, essentially everything east of 215 is off limits and I think everything between 00:58:51
2:15 and Holiday Blvd. on the South end of the city is off limits. 00:58:58
And then everything from Highland Drive to Holiday Blvd. from Arbor Lane to 6200 S, that whole area that encompasses that Walker 00:59:05
Lane areas is restricted. That's the historic Cottonwood area, correct? Yeah, yeah, the 6200 SI think and I think we have gone 200 00:59:12
feet from Spring Creek and then all the way over to 4430 S or 45th South. 00:59:20
And then the 200 foot restrictions on Spring Creek, Little Cottonwood Creek, Neffs Canyon, so. 00:59:29
A large percentage of the city is already restricted based on our own map that we created because of those high fire dangers. So 00:59:36
prior to that pardon prior to two years ago the and how long had that been in place? 00:59:42
The most recent map was done about four years ago. 00:59:50
That's when we expanded over to 4430 S at the request of the residents up here above holiday like the Kentucky area. 00:59:55
Yeah, I think I would be supportive of going back to that map and maybe not this year, but I it might be worth doing what the 01:00:03
Chief had done in Cottonwood Heights in Holiday. But I don't know if that's something that we can accomplish this year. So maybe 01:00:09
we have already done it. So it already is. Then maybe we're good. 01:00:16
OK. Well then well I mean I know that also the Mill Creek has already is keeping in place. So think also about how 39th South 01:00:23
would go. 01:00:28
People to the north of 39th South would be restricted, but South of 39th South would not, True. So that creates a little 01:00:33
uncoordination. Granted, we don't have to do everything Mill Creek does, but I think in this case it might be worth waiting 01:00:39
another year and perhaps having a discussion with Mill Creek and and trying to be a little more coordinated together for next year 01:00:45
just because then you're going to create an enforcement issue, whether you're a Mill Creek resident or holiday resident, what side 01:00:51
of 39th South you live on. 01:00:57
I think, I think also given the principle of the two out of five years, I think this is where we're talking about fireworks and 01:01:04
making changes, that it shouldn't be a flip of a coin each year, but rather a little more slow boat turn as opposed to speed boat 01:01:09
turns. 01:01:15
So I'd be in favor of extending another year in terms of caution, but I'm also, you know, very open to getting back to the 01:01:22
original map at some point, but I'm not going to cry about it either way depending on how we all vote, so. 01:01:29
I guess one of the concerns I have. I live on a high Fireworks St. 01:01:38
And there they go off all the time. And frankly, it's kind of. 01:01:44
A joke in the neighborhood about about this ordinance and I'm I'm not really comfortable with the idea of having this ordinance. 01:01:51
That is just sort of. 01:01:55
Widely flouted and we don't really do anything about and I would be I think more in favor of finding a nuanced approach where we 01:02:00
really can enforce or have a commitment to enforcing where we think it's important and not and not where we don't. 01:02:08
I would. I would agree with that. Could we have similar issues in my neighborhood? 01:02:16
Can I share a quote that I love that relates to this? 01:02:20
Friedrich Bastia, early 1800s. 01:02:25
He says when law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing their his moral sense 01:02:28
or losing his respect for the law. And so to Matt's point, for example, I think to the extent of of critical role that we play, as 01:02:36
you know, in a legislative capacity, I believe is putting moral laws into place when it's not. And when you have children who are 01:02:43
asking why can't I can't, you know, why can the rest of the world like fireworks and I can't, right? 01:02:50
It can create a disregard for the law which I think is very unhealthy and so and the other thing that sorry another quote too but 01:02:58
one thing that Chief mentioned is this propensity for government to have a hard time reeling back after they seize control you 01:03:05
could say which is true and and that's I think we're the saying that nothing is more permanent than a temporary government program 01:03:13
comes from and I think it's healthy to to dial it back when warrants. 01:03:20
Merit that. 01:03:28
Excuse me when when circumstances merit that. And so this issue of, you know, two healthy water ears to me in my my, my personal I 01:03:30
couldn't in my right conscience not go back to what we. 01:03:35
For two years ago, I guess up until two years ago. 01:03:42
And then the last point that I would just make is I do think it's incumbent on us as as a local municipal government to educate to 01:03:47
the extent possible not only what are those high risk areas, but also I think we should look into some instruction as to what are 01:03:53
the things to watch out for the buckets that with with you know, spent sparklers or whatever whatever it is that are those things 01:04:00
that most commonly cause fire, fire hazards. 01:04:07
Problems. I'd like to see a student more of that. I do love the idea like Emily said of re looking at the map and and doing 01:04:14
something that's sensible, easy. Remember we do live in a world today and with Justice and all of his magic on our GIS system and 01:04:20
everything else, we have access to maps better than we've ever had I would say. And that's a that's a resource and reference for 01:04:26
all of our residents to access as needed as well. So so Paul I was thinking about your point about not causing confusion by 01:04:32
changing things every year I think. 01:04:38
Today, making a decision. Today, I feel comfortable rolling back. The people that have reached out to me have all pointed out 01:05:17
that, hey, we've had a great fire or we've had a great water year the last two years. Why can't we go back? I even had people last 01:05:24
year call me up and say, hey, we've had a good fire year. The drought's over. You know, why? Why aren't these changes? And I think 01:05:31
people understand they can look and see. Yes, it's a drought year. I understand why. 01:05:38
We can't set off fireworks, but when they see, yes, well, they see it's been a good water year for two years now and we don't. 01:05:46
You know in the areas where we can, where it's a lower risk, let them fire, set off fireworks then they that's what they don't 01:05:57
understand. I mean I think and like. 01:06:02
Like Emily said, you know if we have another bad year, even if we have no rain between now and the 4th of July, and people can 01:06:08
understand the weather. 01:06:13
Yeah, I think we see the direction it's going. I think my position on this is I don't like fireworks. 01:06:21
And I think the vast majority of their residents in our area don't like fireworks. And so we loved the we love the ability to be 01:06:30
able to strict them east of 1300 E that was. 01:06:36
That authority is given to us by the state as a political subdivision of the state. The state makes the rules. 01:06:43
And so that latitude was provided to us because of the real drought conditions that we were facing at the time. And now that's 01:06:49
continuing and I'm having a hard time even though I would love to continue restricting them because I think our residents. 01:06:58
Most of our residents would like it. It would be for the wrong reason. 01:07:08
It's it would be hard to justify that it's specifically a drought related restriction. It would be because. 01:07:12
We like restricting them because most people just hate them, but I don't think that's consistent with. 01:07:20
The legislation that allowed us to do this, I think it was. 01:07:27
Genuinely, because we were addressing what everybody knew as a serious drought condition, so. 01:07:33
Does that mean I'm busted? 01:07:40
Well, that means we have an honest debate. And, you know, I would love to restrict them, but if I was going to restrict them, I'd 01:07:45
want to do it for the right reason, which is to go out with a public process and say 95% of our people hate fireworks. 01:07:52
Drought notwithstanding, and we're going to ban them, but to continue banning them under these circumstances. 01:08:00
Is tough. 01:08:08
For me to support because I think it would be, it would be disingenuous to the state legislation whether I agree with it or not. 01:08:11
So it should be, if we do do it be a different legislative reason that the majority of the residents can stand fireworks, but 01:08:18
under the guise of fire danger, we're not. We're not getting there. 01:08:24
Well, and I would be interested in talking to Chief Hoyle about this, but. 01:08:31
I would also be totally supportive of better enforcement of the starting and ending period of the firework period when it happens. 01:08:36
Let's let him have the fireworks when they can have them and when they are not supposed to be having them, let's not have them 01:08:42
hear, hear the ability to enforce it. I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I was just going to say we have great. 01:08:49
Way to educate the public now. I mean, we have our Facebook and our Instagram accounts that a lot more people are looking at. 01:08:57
And we've got Lena, who does a great job of sending things out to our residents and I think hopefully people will listen. 01:09:05
We can get that information out better than we could in the past. 01:09:12
95% of them will. 01:09:18
Yeah. 01:09:20
I was just going to say that the ability to enforce this has admittedly got to be very difficult, right. And so I'm guessing that 01:09:23
really the only practical way that this and to be fair, there certainly are are high risk areas which we don't, you know, we 01:09:29
don't, It would be catastrophic Speaking of catastrophes that almost happened to have something light up along the tree canopy 01:09:35
along Walker Lane and have it and have it go and not and get away. And so that's where I think it again from an education 01:09:41
standpoint maybe that's and it's you know. 01:09:47
I'm assuming similar to code enforcement, that we rely on citizens, our residents to report those instances of people that are 01:09:54
violating that so that we can address the issue, right? 01:09:59
Does exactly right. And on holiday nights there are a lot of calls come in that are by the time officers respond the the fireworks 01:10:04
aren't there anymore. It's hard to determine exactly where they're coming from. 01:10:13
So Gina, depending on the action that's taken tonight, so say the current ordinance that's queued up is to continue the ban. So if 01:10:24
that fails, do we do we automatically go back to the old map or do we have no restriction or what's the state of the world if this 01:10:31
ordinance has presented tonight does not pass the the state code requires you to make this an annual designation of an area. So 01:10:38
there's nothing to fall back on to? 01:10:46
You would have no restriction unless you put some restriction in place. 01:10:53
So what that means is if you want the restriction to be everything east of 1300 E, which it sounds like you don't. 01:10:58
Then you'll have to adopt A description of the areas where you do want fireworks to be restricted. 01:11:06
Gina has here at the table the old exhibit. From what your rules used to be, I think you all have copies of that also, and so one 01:11:14
option would be to enact the restrictions for this calendar year. 01:11:22
That would use that Exhibit A as and we could use that today even though it hasn't been part of the packet or was it part of the 01:11:30
packet? I don't recall that it was packet. Is that something can be voted on in this state or do we have to wait till next week? 01:11:36
You can still vote on it. Your the ordinance was noticed and was part of the packet. You can make text amendments during the 01:11:43
meeting. You just have to make them in writing on an ordinance and I think you have in writing what that exhibit is. 01:11:50
So how would we assuming we're going to revert back to our prior map that's Exhibit A? 01:11:58
How would you like that? Motion stated? 01:12:06
Because in the resolution I'm sure it anticipates. 01:12:11
Restriction east of 1300 E. 01:12:16
So you would. 01:12:20
Whoever makes a motion to adopt that would strike the east of 1300 E language and then insert in its place the areas identified in 01:12:21
Exhibit A and then Exhibit A would be included as part of that ordinance. 01:12:29
Gene, are you OK with that? 01:12:41
So I'll make that motion if that's OK. 01:12:45
Mayor, I move that we approve Ordinance 2024-06 restricting the use of personal fireworks, omitting the language that makes 01:12:49
reference to 1300 E and replacing that with the with the language that is listed in Exhibit A, returning to how they were prior to 01:12:57
two years ago. 01:13:04
Perfect. And let me read to you exactly how that would read in section one of the ordinance, it would say. 01:13:12
On in the. 01:13:18
Last part of the first paragraph of or first sentence of section One, I would say, is hereby restricted in all areas of the city 01:13:22
of holiday indicated in Exhibit A. 01:13:26
I second the motion. OK, we have a motion and a second. 01:13:33
Council Member Brewer, Yes, Councilmember Durham, Yes, Council Member Fotheringham as the sitting representative holiday on UFAS 01:13:40
board. 01:13:45
I'm going to go no. 01:13:51
And take my lumps, but I went on the record. I'll be taking some too. 01:13:54
Councilmember Quinn. 01:14:01
Councilmember Gray Yes and Chair vote yes. 01:14:04
Thank you, thank you, of course. 01:14:07
OK. So the prior map is approved? 01:14:12
All right. 01:14:16
Are we on city manager report? I'm trying to find my agenda. No, I'm sorry, Consent agenda. 01:14:19
This is minutes from January 18th, February 7th and 15th 2024. Edits were forwarded from Council Member Quinn to Stephanie on a 01:14:25
change to one of the set of minutes. Other than that, any edits or changes? 01:14:32
Mayor moved to approve the minutes dated January 18th, February 7th and 15th, 2nd. 01:14:41
And March 7th. 01:14:48
Is that on there? No, I don't have March 7th. I don't have March 7th. It says on the agenda. 01:14:50
March 7th is included. 01:14:59
Did I have? Do I have not? An updated agenda is remark 7 minutes in the packet they were. 01:15:02
I remember I read a bunch of minutes I don't really know and March 7th. 01:15:12
And March 7th 2nd. 01:15:17
So we do have a motion and a second all in favor, say aye, aye. Any opposed? 01:15:20
Those sets of minutes are approved. Thank you. We are on to the city manager report. 01:15:26
Gina Chambers. 01:15:30
Thanks, Mayor. I just have a couple of things. I don't have much to add to the statement the Mayor provided on the incident. Other 01:15:33
than that I also want to express my appreciation for our partners at UPD and UFA. The situation could have could have become a 01:15:42
real catastrophe in our community and I'm really grateful for the support and professionalism. 01:15:52
Of our partners with those two agencies, the mayor covered most of the folks internally that have also been responding. But I did 01:16:02
want to mention our community development folks and. 01:16:10
Could have the members of the audience take it outside your your voices are echoing off the roof and we can hear you quite 01:16:19
clearly. 01:16:22
Thank you. 01:16:27
Sorry. 01:16:28
I just wanted to mention the efforts in our community development department, particularly our new building inspector and building 01:16:30
official, Rob Sears, who has also responded. Both he and John Terling have looked at every property within 175 feet radius of the 01:16:40
detonation site and really appreciate the efforts that they have made to keep our community and our residents safe as well. 01:16:51
And also both of our engineers, both Jared and Joe have also been on site numerous times. 01:17:02
I don't know if any, if you have questions, I don't think we have. Not sure we wanna have a lengthy conversation, but if there are 01:17:11
issues you'd like to have addressed in other forums or in a subsequent City Council meeting, happy to have that conversation now. 01:17:20
I think it might be nice to review it at a future date. 01:17:31
I think it would be good to talk maybe about. 01:17:34
Environmental impacts that might be ongoing and what monitoring there is. 01:17:38
And without being overly critical of people who made a lot of sacrifice, I think it's always helpful after an incident to review 01:17:43
what went well, what can be improved upon those, those kind of things at some point certainly. And also the status of the people 01:17:50
who are affected, the residents who are affected, maybe, you know, down the road. 01:17:57
And one last comment, perhaps the way that it was communicated also could be part of that discussion that Emily kind of brought up 01:18:06
as well. 01:18:10
Yeah, I think all of those are fair and we can certainly have a conversation perhaps on the 9th. I'm just thinking anticipating 01:18:18
your schedule that might be the best time for us to have that conversation. 01:18:24
Working with them to place them, but we just want to make sure we're following up. 01:19:08
That they have a place to settle until we can figure out what's going on with that particular house. 01:19:12
And just be a good partner to the community members that have been affected by this through no fault of their own and doing what 01:19:18
we can. 01:19:22
Within our appropriate role to help them out. That's kind of where we're at at this point. 01:19:27
In terms of the after action, I think you're I'm sure UFA is and UPD will probably go through that, but to be fair. 01:19:33
Umm. 01:19:43
We've never dealt with having to dispose of dynamite in our community the way we did before. 01:19:44
And according to my friends at UFA, neither have they. But I'm sure it will be a great offer, training opportunity to go through 01:19:52
what happened and how it was executed. Lessons learned, develop best practices out of that. And I'm. I'm sure that's what they'll 01:19:58
do. But it was you, you know, I don't want to speak for you, Chief Pilgrim, but. 01:20:05
My my sense is that this started to evolve. There was there were no protocols to to say this is how you deal with it. EPA got 01:20:13
involved and that created another partner that had input in terms of what could possibly happen with the chemicals that were on 01:20:19
the site. 01:20:24
And at the end of the day they had to take all the information they had and say. 01:20:30
This is what we're going to do and we defer to the professionals in those circumstances and they did a great job, but there was 01:20:34
number. 01:20:38
It's a short way of saying there was number playbook. 01:20:43
And they had to develop a plan based on the information they had, and they had to act, not wait, So. 01:20:46
And I'll defend that. 01:20:54
All right, one last thing for the Council. So in 2022 this council, along with many city councils around the state, as well as the 01:21:00
state, approved and new state holiday Juneteenth, this Council decided to observe. 01:21:10
That holiday on the actual holiday June 19th. Others have taken a different approach and are celebrating the holiday on the 01:21:21
Monday. It's observed on Monday of the week where the holiday occurs. 01:21:30
And. 01:21:41
From a transparency, clarity for the public point of view this year as it would be celebrated on Wednesday, it could turn out to 01:21:43
be confusing for our residents if we are closed on a day that others are open. 01:21:52
It has become a concern for the courts as well. So because we operate a Justice court, the Administrative Office of the Courts has 01:22:02
told, has told us and communicated to all court employees that the court has to be open on June 19th. 01:22:11
So we would have a situation where some of our employees are here and some are not. Some of our services are available and some 01:22:23
are not. We do have that same situation on the day after Thanksgiving where the court has the same rule. The court needs to be 01:22:30
open. So we have staff here, but that's the only other time. 01:22:37
So I just wanted to check in with the council and see if you want to continue to observe Juneteenth on the 19th, or if you want to 01:22:45
align with state, the state and other public entities that are celebrating it on the Monday of the week that it's. 01:22:55
Closest to what's your recommendation? 01:23:05
That would probably be my recommendation is to align with other public agencies. 01:23:09
I just think it'll be easier for the public to know and have some predictability about whether our staff is available or not. 01:23:14
So the state of Utah has actually done that and designated. 01:23:22
Monday they have, yes. 01:23:25
Salt Lake County has as well, and a number of other cities are also celebrating on that day. 01:23:28
Undoes our desire of trying to remember the 19th right, that was. 01:23:34
Our intention really, Yeah. 01:23:38
Yeah, that was true to the trying to be true to the to the holiday itself. You don't do the same thing with 4th of July is always 01:23:41
the 4th of July. So what holidays are on specific days? 01:23:47
Versus what holidays are it's a Monday and what? 01:23:55
Very supportive of that. So unification and making it scale is more important than the specific data. That's what I think. I mean, 01:24:34
if people feel differently, I'm very open. I think you make a good point. And I think if I were to have been the one making the 01:24:41
statement for, they're making the decision. If I were the dictator, I was no, keep it the 19th. 01:24:47
But that decision now seems to be taking getting taken out of our hands and as a result we have a choice. But I think you have a 01:24:54
choice now as do you join where there's going to be scale or do you hold to take your heels in and prevent be a purist and I would 01:25:00
agree that the scale piece. 01:25:06
Is the most important. 01:25:13
And it does make it difficult if we're doing it on a different day, not aligned with pretty much everybody else. And as a 01:25:15
practical matter, I guess it would be, it might be complicated for us to try and get work done on a Monday when other state 01:25:21
agencies and cities are closed. That's true too. 01:25:26
That seems like alignment is. 01:25:34
Winning out over purest sentiment. 01:25:37
If everyone's comfortable with that, that's the direction I'll take them. Thank you. 01:25:40
Thanks, Gina. 01:25:45
OK, Council reports. Emily, maybe we'll start with you. I know you have some statements you want to make. I do. I think most 01:25:47
people know that the incident that happened in Holiday happened in my district and more specifically in my neighborhood. 01:25:54
I don't want to get emotional. I really, I really want to thank all the officers and firefighters from YOU PD and UFA for their 01:26:03
exceptional efforts to protect my family and my friends and my neighbors and my community Tuesday night. 01:26:10
We were the beneficiaries of the deep bench of resources provided by UPD and UFA and as you know, we needed all of those 01:26:17
resources. That night updated us with over 75 officers from around the county managing traffic, knocking on doors and helping 01:26:24
elderly individuals to find a way of safe to safety. We were the beneficiaries of UFAS ambulance service provided to a 97 year old 01:26:32
individual on Hospice who by the way was thrilled with. They had some firefighters that helped her out of her home. 01:26:39
We are the beneficiaries of their hazmat team and bomb squad, along with the firefighters once they were needed. 01:26:48
I know that there's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking that goes on after events like these, and I'm sure you and I have heard 01:26:54
a lot of it and I well, I always think that analysis of what we can do better is helpful. Please know that the overwhelming 01:27:01
response that I am hearing from my people is one of incredible gratitude for the heroic efforts of your teams that protected us 01:27:07
and our children and our friends from what could have been a horrific tragedy. 01:27:13
That's all. 01:27:21
You be my speech. 01:27:24
Yeah, I couldn't have said it better. Thank you very much and thank you. 01:27:28
Emily showed up and. 01:27:33
Husband had to bring her a coat at like 3:00 in the morning. 01:27:35
She was out, you know, with her. I think it was a state president showed up and. 01:27:39
I mean, people just showed up and started saying, hey, we can open up the church. Do you want us to help knock doors? We know 01:27:45
elderly people here, here, here, here and here. How can we help you get them out? And and it was pretty, pretty amazing to see the 01:27:51
community come together like that. And by and large, they've been, you know, very understanding and very empathetic to the 01:27:57
situation. But thanks for representing your constituents so well too. They appreciate it. I've had a number of them comment on 01:28:03
that. So well done. 01:28:09
All right, Drew. 01:28:16
Thank you. This last Saturday I was able to attend an emergency preparedness event. It was hosted by the Olympus stake of the 01:28:17
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and Allison Jester from the city was there. We had a little holiday booth and she had 01:28:25
a great game set up for kids talking about earthquake preparedness, and I think that she made some points with him. It was really 01:28:33
fun to see her interacting. 01:28:40
With not only the children, but with all the adults, it was a great event. There were lots of people there and there. There was a 01:28:48
fire truck from our holiday 104 UPD and. 01:28:54
The kids had a great time and adults too, looking in the fire truck and talking with with the firefighters. 01:29:02
Holiday also handed out FEMA materials and it was it was a really nice event. I also attended the Churchill Community Council. 01:29:13
They were making plans for next year and breathing a sigh of relief that they had enough. 01:29:21
Students for next year that they don't have to go down any teachers so so it was it was a good week. 01:29:30
Good. I'm glad you had a good week. That makes one of you, yes, but one of us, right. Just two items. First, we have the of course 01:29:39
the dance concert on April 15th, Monday over to Olympus Junior High, a raging success as Arts Council events tend to be. It was a 01:29:46
wonderful program. And then secondly, earlier today the steering committee met regarding the Spring Lane Park, the our MTMHTN 01:29:54
architecture group. 01:30:02
They're planning on presenting next week at City Council the latest and greatest. I think you'll be pleased. We'll have to figure 01:30:10
out the money part, but the designs are exciting. 01:30:16
I attended the Crestview Elementary Community Council this week and they were going through their staffing plans for next year. 01:30:25
And then they talked about two issues that I think we can really wrap up tonight easily. People not cleaning up after their dogs 01:30:31
on school property and traffic and safety problems during drop off and pick up. 01:30:37
I think that they. 01:30:44
It's almost May and so there. 01:30:46
Ready to relax for the year, but coming and coming in the fall, I think those are issues that will be back on their radar screen. 01:30:50
I would just suggest that like on the drop off and stuff that they may. 01:30:56
Pose some solutions. In fact, I'm meeting with, we're meeting with When are we meeting with Emily. Are you coming to that one? 01:31:02
True with Granite School District. 01:31:08
You're out. Yeah. No, I'm coming the 6th, 6th, 6th and I think we're going to meet with the Superintendent and but we can, they 01:31:15
should come up with some possible solutions that we can get in front of Granite School District so they can start dealing with 01:31:20
that now. 01:31:25
They've talked about some social media education and things like that. So they're they're thinking about things, and I think some 01:31:31
interface with the UPD might be helpful as well. 01:31:36
OK. 01:31:42
Following on that, actually on the dog problem, I was a continent elementary's yesterday and interestingly Granite School 01:31:44
District, they've banned dogs at Condo Elementary for it was a 30, it's a 30 day ban. They put banners up all over. 01:31:51
Someone came in and destroyed some of those banners. You know it's it's it's it's fascinating disheartening frankly the disregard 01:32:01
that some of the local residents have, whoever whoever it is and the altercations that they've had and and things like that. Just 01:32:07
the disrespect I guess in the end and it's a good statement I think of you know when people. 01:32:14
It's the loss of privileges you know that comes from irresponsibility ultimately right. And dogs require responsibility and so 01:32:22
it's a shame grounded school district will be doing more I think for for that and they're just going to play it and it may be a 01:32:27
more more than a 30 day ban and and and who knows. 01:32:32
I do have to say kind of segue from you know the UFA we've certainly this has been a great week I think to recognize how great 01:32:40
these services and these and these service providers are that we have. 01:32:47
Another couple of things. 01:34:05
Something I learned at our continent elementary. Do you know that Continental Elementary is the number this year? It's the number 01:34:07
3 school in the state of elementary school in the state of Utah. Of all of the elementary schools last year, it was #2. They 01:34:11
dropped. They dropped one. They said they'll they'll be, they'll be back next next year to #2. The number one school for whatever 01:34:16
reason is like. 01:34:20
Just I don't know that 1S touchable but #3 school in the state. I thought that was pretty impressive. And the other thing is 01:34:25
interesting. Olympus high schools I was at last week, their graduation rate from 2022 to 2023 went from 90% to 94%. It's one of 01:34:33
the highest in the district. And the principal Jen is she's her goal is to be 96% next year and she's quite certain that they'll 01:34:40
they'll reach it. So we're surrounded by by greatness I would say. 01:34:48
Uh, let's see. 01:34:56
I think. 01:35:00
Kim made reference to the historical Commission and this speaker series May 13th, David Amit on the Bamberger, Dreyfus and Walker 01:35:03
Homes. Again, just that maybe in preservation month. I hope that all of us on the City Council will take advantage of that. Look, 01:35:10
look for these QR codes, plug them in and look at it. You can certainly feel the passion and the zeal that our historical 01:35:17
Commission has. I think it's incumbent on all of us to to take a look at that and and at the work that they do. 01:35:24
Just to appreciate what they do reminder to we will be looking for three to five historical Commission members. So I think it 01:35:31
comes to mind just just have that kind of on on your minds. And then lastly with it again still being the spring season, 01:35:37
everything just a reminder on the mosquito abatement and that that that's a resource that we all should promote to our 01:35:43
constituents and and just be attentive to and and there's a decent amount of money that the state has been spending for a lot of 01:35:49
years that goes to that mosquito abatement effort. 01:35:55
And it's a shame to not use it to its to its Max so that we can drive the benefit, the public benefit from it that we hope to. So 01:36:02
that's all I've got. 01:36:05
OK. Thanks. 01:36:10
Gosh, I don't. I think I've. 01:36:13
Talked enough. 01:36:15
I'm trying to think if there's anything coming up. I know we got the Arbor Day thing on Friday. There was one other thing. Sorry. 01:36:17
The business Advisory Board. So knots KNOTZ. Yeah is a new business that will be there will be ribbon cutting ceremony this. 01:36:25
Tomorrow Paul and Emily will both be there. Thank you both for that. But this is with the business Advisory Board being back in in 01:36:33
play now that this is will be a regular activity as my understanding where we'll do a ribbon cutting ceremony for these new 01:36:39
businesses open. But this is a stuffed pretzel business and it's. 01:36:46
Yeah, starting at 4:30 PM, the ribbon cutting will be at 5. Small samples and drinks will be served until until 5:30 PM. So show 01:36:54
up tonight and support this new holiday business. 01:37:00
Yeah. So we've got that event, That's it at Morningside, Morningside at 2:00. 01:37:07
2:00 tomorrow for that and just trying to think, Matt will be running the show on the second meeting. 01:37:11
Meeting will start at 5:30 early, a little bit earlier and should be pretty short. I hope I remember that. 01:37:18
Oh, has anybody been contacted by Stephanie? We've got end of school coming up. I think I'm going to go to Cottonwood. 01:37:27
Have you got the local state? Has anybody been contacted so we know our dates graduation? 01:37:35
No to the. 01:37:42
Wards, Assembly Awards, You're doing Bonneville, I'm doing Cottonwood, you're doing Churchill, you're doing Olympus Skyline. 01:37:44
Skyline usually doesn't have a formal OH. 01:37:49
They don't do like a formal award thing, so we usually just arrange to deliver the awards to whoever they turn in. 01:37:55
So good. So we're all ready to go on that. 01:38:01
Olympus Junior. 01:38:05
When I was in 9th grade, they did, but I don't know if they still do. No, they do it. So we just need to check. I just need to 01:38:09
check with Stephanie and see when Olympus Junior is doing it, making sure somebody's going to show up for that. 01:38:14
I think you're the Are you the liaison for Helpless Junior? 01:38:21
What's that? Are you the As an Olympus junior, I think. I'm pretty sure. I can't remember. I'm pretty sure. Did I stick with it? 01:38:24
Emily took Oh, unless. Unless Emily took it. 01:38:28
I will check with Stephanie on that. 01:38:37
All right, I think we're going to move across the hall. 01:38:40
You need a motion? Sure, Mr. Mayor. I move. We adjourn City Council and reconvene across all for work. Meeting second. 01:38:45
All in favor? Aye. OK, take a couple minute break and move across the hall. 01:38:53
Link
Start video at
Social
Embed
* you need to log in to manage your favorites
My Favorites List
You haven't added any favorites yet. Click the "Add Favorite" button on any media page, and they'll show up here.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file.
We know everything's going to be right then. 00:00:13
Are we ready to go? 00:00:15
It's been a week. Welcome everybody, to the Holiday City Council meeting. We're gonna call a meeting to order if everybody please 00:00:21
rise for the pledge. 00:00:25
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. 00:00:29
To see the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:38
All right. Umm. 00:00:53
Gather my thoughts here. 00:00:57
Before we move to public comment, a couple of things. 00:01:00
Number one is we do have two public hearings tonight. I see some of our colleagues from the Historical Commission I'm sure here to 00:01:05
comment on on the preservation ordinance, item number 5. 00:01:11
And we also have a text amendment. 00:01:17
Proposed text amendment to the C2 zone that we have a public hearing on. So neither one of those items will be up for vote 00:01:22
tonight, but we will open up the public hearings and I'll probably make a decision about whether to close the rock based on what 00:01:28
we hear. I don't anticipate either one of those. I'm trying to remember, Gina, what we were planning on boats for these. I think 00:01:34
it depends on what we hear, but are we going to try to do it on the May 2nd or move them to the 16th? 00:01:40
So I don't think we've decided yet. We also explored the possibility of maybe the 9th, just expanding that from a work meeting. 00:01:47
OK I. 00:01:55
Yeah, I think I'm going to make a command decision here and say we push those to the 9th. I am not able to be here on the 2nd and 00:01:59
would like to be here for both those votes. I think it's important we have a full is everybody here on the 9th. 00:02:05
That we have a full Oh, you're not, are you here on the 16th? 00:02:12
Maybe we move to the 16th Gina. 00:02:20
I'd like to make sure we have a full council for those votes and I don't think either one of these issues is pressing. 00:02:23
In terms of getting it to a vote of the Council, So I'll just say right now that on both these public hearings, unless something, 00:02:30
unless I hear something different when we're discussing it. 00:02:35
We'll plan on for the May 16th Council Council meeting to agenda for a vote, so we'll open up those public hearings tonight. And 00:02:41
then if you want to stay and listen to the work meeting discussion, you're welcome to do that too. That will be after we recess 00:02:47
the regular council meeting. So if you're here to comment on either one of those issues, Please wait till we open up those public 00:02:52
hearings. 00:02:58
Everything else will be in public comment but before I get to public comment. 00:03:05
Let me just say briefly. 00:03:10
We had. 00:03:14
Large event in the city that I'm sure everybody's familiar with. I know the council is it's been all over the news. 00:03:16
I don't want to get into too much detail other than to say. 00:03:23
It it was a potentially catastrophic situation had we not luckily come across the store of dynamite that was found on that 00:03:28
property and I think everybody know how knows how it ended. I don't need to go into that detail, but I do want to take a minute to 00:03:34
thank. 00:03:40
Our partners, Chief Pilgrim was actually one of the chiefs on site along with Chief Dern that that kind of headed up the effort on 00:03:47
behalf of Unified Fire and our unified police partner, our precinct Chief Chief Oil was there for. 00:03:55
I don't know, probably 18 hours. 00:04:04
We had to evacuate a pretty large area, home by home on a sweep starting at 11:00 PM going to 1:45 AM, which was which was 00:04:08
challenging and we had 75 police officers in the city within about an hour. 00:04:17
Of a phone call and all sorts of UFA assets to include the being in the fortunate position of having a highly trained Hazmat team 00:04:27
and bomb squad team in Unified, we were supplemented with Salt Lake City, I believe Bomb squad. 00:04:35
Red Cross showed up. The county Emergency Management team showed up. 00:04:46
It was a complete team effort to. 00:04:51
Make sure everybody was safe, which was the overriding priority in the city once we were informed of what the event was and 00:04:55
started working with Unified on what their plan was to to detonate on Site I. 00:05:03
But I just. 00:05:11
I want to say it was really the benefit of being part of a unified police and unified fire team in action to see it all come 00:05:13
together. We often say you know, you remember that and you don't need it till you need it, but when you need it, you need it. And 00:05:20
it was on full display with the amount of assets we had on site, both police and fire and and being able to take care of it and we 00:05:27
feel badly about. 00:05:35
The property damage, you know, obviously, but nobody got hurt. 00:05:42
Nobody was killed and there's a. 00:05:49
Common opinion among some of the firefighters I talked to on the site that that, and I'll just say this had that had we not come 00:05:54
across those caches of Dynamite's. 00:06:00
When the EPA started inspecting the home and it had just something had happened on that at that home site without anybody knowing 00:06:07
it was there and had it ignited, it would have been a catastrophic event. I'll just say that based on what we witnessed to having 00:06:14
to detonate it on site. So we're going to hear a little bit more during the city manager report. Gina's going to talk a little bit 00:06:21
about kind of what the city's doing at this point. And I think Council Member Gray has some comments she wants to make. 00:06:28
But I just want to thank everybody. Lena was on site for many hours as well as Allison who's not here working with the county 00:06:36
emergency team. Emily was there all night. Yeah, just and I probably missed somebody. But thanks to everybody for for all their 00:06:43
good work and we're just very grateful that. 00:06:51
We found it at the problem has been taken care of, and it's been taken care of without any injury or death. That's the most 00:06:59
important thing. So anyway. 00:07:03
I'm going to leave it at that and then. 00:07:08
Thank you. 00:07:12
So with that and with the notes I gave you on the two public hearings, we're going to move to public comment. So if you are not 00:07:20
here to make public comment on either item five or six, the text amendment to C2 or the Historical Commission Preservation 00:07:26
Ordinance, now is your opportunity. The podium is open. Just give us your name and address. Try to keep it to 3 minutes or less 00:07:32
please, unless you're speaking on behalf of group public comments open. 00:07:39
Going once. 00:07:51
Come on up. Give us your name and address, please. 00:07:55
And I'm David Steffensen. I'm at 4538 Suncrest Drive. 00:07:57
I'm here about the fireworks again. I was here I think about a month ago. My understanding is you guys are voting today on the 00:08:04
proposed ordinance regarding the fireworks. 00:08:09
I just wanted to reiterate how much me and mine would really enjoy the opportunity to light fireworks and holiday again and to 00:08:14
enjoy that ability to celebrate the 4th of July with fireworks. I just think they're, they're inseparable at this point and I 00:08:21
would ask you to consider that as you vote. Thank you. 00:08:27
Thanks so much. 00:08:34
Anybody else? 00:08:38
OK, I don't see anybody else that wants to address the council and public comment. So I'll close public comment and move to item 00:08:44
number 4. This is public hearing on proposed amendments Title 13.62, Building Heights in the C2 Zone Staff report is in the 00:08:51
packet. It's not a difficult issue. It's basically raising the proposed text amendment is to raise the height in the C2 zone from 00:08:58
35 feet to 40 feet. 00:09:05
And we'll have John come up. If you, John, do you want to review this with the council and then we'll. 00:09:15
I see, Mr. Leighton, here's Are you going to speak on behalf of the applicant? 00:09:20
OK. 00:09:24
Application to amend C2 Heights has been received by the Community Economic Development Department and heard by the Planning 00:09:27
Commission. 00:09:31
Planning Commission had a favorable recommendation forwarded to the City Council with some pretty general requests to study maybe 00:09:35
and consider architecture and using the Design Review Board as one of those types of committees to review. 00:09:45
Building design in your commercial zones, especially when we start considering raising this the height. 00:09:55
That was essentially the the notion from the Planning Commission on that recommendation to you. Applicant will give you some more 00:10:02
details to the need for this extra height, but overall, your C2 heights really haven't been changed at all since incorporation. 00:10:10
There is some some exhibits in your packet that shows what other cities are doing about budding. You know whether that holds merit 00:10:18
to you. It did with the Planning Commission. They requested that that study be done. 00:10:25
So that you know in context what other cities have as far as heights. 00:10:32
So, and I'll be happy to answer any other questions, but most of it would be from the applicant himself. 00:10:38
I don't think there's a question, John. It's more just a comment based on the staff report that and I'm sure we're going to hear 00:10:44
the justification from the applicant that clears it up for the council. But it there's a restriction of three floors in the C2 00:10:50
zone, it doesn't change that. So it doesn't give any future applicant and ability to add a fourth floor to get more density. 00:10:57
There's obviously a reason why you know going up five feet is important to. 00:11:03
What they can do, which I'm sure we're going to hear, but just for my clarification because I can't remember the at 35 or 40 feet, 00:11:10
what does does that allow like mechanical structure or can anything go above that or is that it? Oh, above above that roof, right. 00:11:17
There are some things parapets and mechanical. 00:11:23
Stairways that exit to the roof. Emergency exits, the elevator shafts. Those can go above. 00:11:32
But the roof deck where you're standing on is at 40 feet. 00:11:37
OK. 00:11:41
All right. Well. 00:11:43
Open up for if you've got, do you have a question? I just have one question on the Planning Commission's vote. Was that unanimous 00:11:45
that they all approved? Yes or recommended? Yeah, that's OK. Thank you. 00:11:50
I had a question as well. I was wondering if you could speak to it all. What kind of architectural standards were they 00:11:55
recommending? Is that piece what they wanted us to look at, Like what they? Yeah, they referred to Holiday, Crossroads Zone and 00:12:01
the village. 00:12:06
The holiday crossroads zone is sort of a hybrid of what the architectural standards are for the village itself. 00:12:13
The village is very focused on Utah historic type vernacular. The holiday crossroad zone is a little more loose. 00:12:18
But they pointed to those two zones as an example. 00:12:27
Nothing really, in particular. 00:12:31
I would be interested in looking at that and to create a unified field throughout the different areas myself. 00:12:33
Sure. So if you're interested as a council. 00:12:40
Direct staff to study those and bring those back at a later date, we definitely can. 00:12:44
OK. Thanks, John. 00:12:50
So, Chris, do you want to come up and talk about this a little bit? I think what would be helpful to the council is maybe to 00:12:52
understand what the benefit of that five feet is in terms of a design. I think that's the issue, right? 00:12:58
Yes, yeah, I think. 00:13:05
Go ahead, Paul. 00:13:08
Did I say 3? The reason that this has come to light and it's not just something that came out of the blue on one project and we 00:13:09
want some special consideration for it, This is. 00:13:15
Something that I see as an architect. First of all, I should probably state that Chris Layton. 00:13:21
3200 E 39th South A proud resident of Holiday City. 00:13:28
Yeah, that too. And as a Planning Commissioner, we saw a lot of challenges with this limitation and and and This is why. 00:13:34
More and more and I think it's a real benefit to the city. We're seeing a lot of mixed-use projects and currently in the C2 zone 00:13:46
it allows for mixed-use projects, it allows for three stories of projects. But what it doesn't allow within the height limitation 00:13:55
right now in my opinion and I I think general opinion, it doesn't allow for qualitative. 00:14:04
Design of those spaces, the floor to floors are so compacted that we're seeing a lot of opportunities where we have retail, office 00:14:14
and residential as a mixed product which is I I think you've you've seen around the village already it it it's something that 00:14:22
isn't going away, it's something that's that allows for. 00:14:30
More dwelling units to be added in a in a more commercial zone. 00:14:39
But the mathematics of it, are we simply between? 00:14:45
For a good quality commercial space, we really need 14 to 15 or 14 to 16 feet floor to floor for residential or office spaces. 12 00:14:51
feet 10 is is tight and So what we found is you're either trying to sandwich the quality of spaces that. 00:15:02
That we're allowed to have in this zone, and there are great needs for the city, but they're just not done in a way where 00:15:14
mechanical systems and structural systems and everything can really be done well. This isn't part of a creeping concept where, 00:15:23
well, let's see if we can get it up to 40 this this way. It's just a rational distance and a rational increase that allows for. 00:15:32
I think current architectural designs and programs. 00:15:43
OK. Thank you. Any questions for Mr. 00:15:49
Do you mind pulling up the there's a map in there that shows where the C2 zones are? Thanks, Chris. Appreciate it. 00:15:54
I think it's just so we can see that too, because there's just not a lot of it. It's not like all over the place. It's pretty, 00:16:00
it's a pretty isolated zone. 00:16:05
All right. Any questions for the open the public hearing? OK. 00:16:12
We are going to open the public hearing on this text Momentum. Is there anybody from the audience that's here to comment? 00:16:19
On this text amendment. 00:16:25
Sorry, Mayor, can we go back for just a second? On that map, it looks like the holiday Crossroads area in red. 00:16:29
The current height restrictions on that area is 32 to 58 feet, so that would not be affected by. 00:16:37
This C2 that's the HCR portions that have converted so far. 00:16:44
OK. Because not the whole place hasn't converted, I think it's slated to, right. So if someone did start a redevelopment there 00:16:49
they'd they can go to the 32 to 58 pre apply for HCR and then get those. But my point is, is that that area is a separate zone. So 00:16:56
it would not be affected by this. It would be affected by this until there's a zone change. So you, John, you'll correct me, but 00:17:03
the little white piece you see there has been rezoned to HCR. 00:17:11
Which next to Wendy's. So they could go to 58 feet. Got it. The rest of it remains C2 until an applicant would come in and request 00:17:18
the zone change. So yeah, it would affect all of those. If we made this text amendment, they could now go to 40 feet. If they 00:17:25
wanted to go to 58 feet one, it would depend on where it is in the zone, but they would have to actually come in and apply for the 00:17:31
zone change. Did I get that right? OK. 00:17:37
Thanks for the clarification. 00:17:44
OK, so now the public hearing is open. Well, did I open it already? 00:17:48
Yeah, so anybody here to comment on this issue? 00:17:52
Or this. We had crickets before, so yeah, OK, all right. I think I'm just going to close this public hearing then and we'll move 00:17:57
on to item number 5. 00:18:01
So this is the public hearing on proposed Amendments Title 13. This is historic historic preservation ordinance to amend the Code. 00:18:07
This also is in the packet and has been through the Planning Commission. 00:18:14
And there's pretty detailed. 00:18:20
Presentation on what this proposes to change in the current ordinance. John, I don't know if you want to give us a. 00:18:23
Any kind of overview on this? 00:18:30
Sure. Really quickly. 00:18:33
Basically, where the Planning Commission is recommending Planning Commission did recommend the amendment text as the DRA is 00:18:36
drafted in front of you. There's a couple of highlighted sections in that draft text in yellow. 00:18:41
Specifically, the list of addresses at the beginning and then toward the end. 00:18:47
In the legislative process section. 00:18:53
We highlighted that two portions that talked about when a property that has been added to your historic designations list. 00:18:56
What occurs during the public process, either during the meetings or the hearings when the property is requested to be delisted, 00:19:05
so to speak. The question is whether or not that is a public comment type situation or is that just a public meeting that the 00:19:11
applicant can come to the Planning Commission or sorry, the City Council, they have that property removed. 00:19:17
It was a collective opinion from the Planning Commission that should be. 00:19:24
Public comment during that public meeting situation. So the idea is that we would mail out a certain distance invite comment in 00:19:28
when this applicant is requesting their property be removed from that list. 00:19:34
The staff really didn't feel either strongly either way. I think that from my point of view, inviting public comment when a 00:19:43
property owner wants to have their property delisted as could be inviting some contention that from before that property owner and 00:19:48
then specifically. 00:19:53
But the plan from the Planning Commission's point of view, they thought that process is was helpful. 00:19:59
The highlighted properties on your list, those came directly from your General Plan. Those have been properties that have been 00:20:04
identified in your General Plan since 2015. 00:20:09
And we added those in there because it made sense. Now adding those properties in there do not include. 00:20:15
Them going through the process of applying and that was one of the intent, one of the main. 00:20:24
In goals of this amendment was to create a process that the property owner can bring their properties. 00:20:29
Once it's been federally designated or his state statutorily designated as historic to the Planning City Council for adding those 00:20:36
those properties to list. So adding them now sort of circumvents that so that we can leave that up to this the planet City Council 00:20:42
of what they would like to do with those addresses. 00:20:49
Additionally, the Planning Commission gave a list of other things to consider, specifically what to do with once decisions are 00:20:57
made. Do we record those against the property? 00:21:02
Creating a nominal fee for the application itself, Something that's approachable. 00:21:10
That's not so expensive, like a rezone or a text amendment, so to speak. 00:21:16
The involvement of the historic committee. 00:21:22
And there was one other one. I can't remember what that one was, but they've given you a list to consider and however, we as staff 00:21:24
have not made amendments to that draft including those recommendations. We'll take direction from the Council later as you deem 00:21:29
necessary. 00:21:35
OK. Any any questions for John? 00:21:43
I'll reserve mine for the work meeting. 00:21:47
Thanks, John. 00:21:52
We can ask him any questions too as this goes along if we need to, so we'll open up this public hearing. 00:21:53
I see there's a number of people here. They're probably interested in this topic and you can take your 3 minutes, or if there's if 00:22:01
you're speaking on behalf of a group and you want to take five. I'm assuming your opinions are going to be, you know, pretty 00:22:06
consistent in terms of what your ask is going to be. So but it's your time. So however you want to handle it, just again, name and 00:22:11
address and. 00:22:16
Come on up. 00:22:23
I'm Kim Duffy. I live at 2195 E Walker Lane. I'm vice chair of the Historical Commission. 00:22:29
And I'm speaking on behalf of other historical Commissioners and also two that are not here today. Can we, can we get just for our 00:22:36
Council? 00:22:40
Who is she speaking on behalf of? Just raise your hand so we know kind of get a sense of how many people you're talking. 00:22:45
Thank you. And then Ron Hilton, who couldn't be here, well, thank you for saying that because I do have, we do have an e-mail from 00:22:54
Ron Hilton on file and the council all has it so. 00:23:01
So thanks for reminding me. OK, go ahead. OK, good. I'm going to talk about two things tonight. One is the new ordinances, which 00:23:08
are like the old ordinances except that they exclude the holiday Historical Commission. 00:23:15
The other thing I'm going to talk about is the programs that the Commission has done in the last two years, which is why they 00:23:22
shouldn't be excluded from the new ordinances. OK, thing one. 00:23:27
And he just referenced that the eight houses that were listed. 00:23:34
I know each of these houses. I've been inside most of these houses. I'm in touch with the owners of these houses once or twice a 00:23:40
year. 00:23:44
According to Holiday's code, the Historical Commission is to provide advice and information to the city manager regarding 00:23:48
identification and protection of historic resources. Am I right about that? 00:23:53
We were not invited or involved in writing these new ordinances, and the result is one of the houses you listed won't qualify 00:24:02
under your new ordinances because the house has been moved from its original site. 00:24:08
Another won't qualify because the principal facade was drastically altered last year. One house was demolished in January and 00:24:14
another, the homeowner is resistant to participating in holiday preservation events and may be surprised and irritated at their 00:24:22
inclusion on your list. And we would have given you a heads up on that if we had been invited to do so. 00:24:29
Okay Under Section F Criteria #3, qualifying structures must be associated with either events of historic significance, the lives 00:24:41
of important historic persons, or buildings that exhibit significant construction or materials. 00:24:48
These are similar to the National Register's qualification, with which I'm familiar. I wrote the nomination for our house and have 00:24:57
read every National Register nomination for holidays buildings. So I ask who at the city is going to decide whether buildings meet 00:25:02
your criteria? 00:25:07
Is city staff as familiar with holidays, history or National Register qualifications as are our commissioners? 00:25:13
So why are we being excluded? 00:25:20
During the Planning Commission meeting April 2, there were questions about how city staff will decide whether proposed changes to 00:25:22
a building will match the vernacular of the original house. 00:25:27
Staff said that the Salt Lake County assessor has files with photos that can be used for comparison. 00:25:32
I know from experience that files outside Salt Lake City proper only include photos and about 50% of cases. 00:25:38
So how will these requests be evaluated? I have in my photo library right now probably more than 200 images of historic holiday 00:25:45
houses and what they look like today, or five years ago, or 10 years ago. Another of our members is a realtor and has countless 00:25:51
images available to her. Why wouldn't this resource be tapped? 00:25:57
I have long standing associations with the State history office, Utah historians, preservationists, architects and an 00:26:05
archaeologist that I routinely call on. 00:26:10
When I want to understand a property, isn't this real time knowledge useful to the city? 00:26:15
The new ordinances list qualifiers to add buildings to the Holiday Register. One qualifier is the National Register, which is 00:26:21
great. The other qualifier is the State historic designation. 00:26:27
If you had involved us, we would have told you that the state register hasn't been active since 1979 and no longer adds 00:26:33
properties. 00:26:37
The 30 day pause for documenting a property. This is great. We've been suggesting this for months. 00:26:42
My question is, who is going to document the properties? City staff can't be expected to have the expertise on matters of holiday 00:26:48
history and historical architecture that they'd be expected to in order to review. So will taxpayers foot the bill to hire an 00:26:53
architectural historian? 00:26:58
On the other hand, there are members of the Holiday Commission, Historical Commission who have lived in this community for 70 plus 00:27:05
years, others whose ancestors homesteaded swaths of holiday, another whose National Register house has been occupied by their 00:27:10
family for 140 years. 00:27:16
There's a Utah State University professor, a member who Co sponsored a drive that saved U.S. Open space while sat Hollow and sugar 00:27:22
House. 00:27:26
Another member who has published articles on businesses, neighborhoods and on preservation. A software engineer and an expert on 00:27:30
mid century architecture who knows nearly every interesting house and holiday. Why aren't these? 00:27:37
Resources being sought, I've got to grab my water. 00:27:45
OK. 00:28:04
Thing two Now I'm going to tell you what the Historical Commission has done which demonstrates their abilities and knowledge and 00:28:06
why you shouldn't cut them out of the process. 00:28:10
The Commission's goal is not to abscond with people's property rights. 00:28:15
The goal has been to educate the public about our historic treasures to this point in the last few years the Commission has 00:28:20
created. 00:28:24
The speaker series, which hundreds of citizens attend. Three of our speakers did fresh research on holiday which we've provided to 00:28:29
the city. 00:28:33
May Preservation, which is a program we thought up last year. For those of you who are unfamiliar, we placed green signs with the 00:28:38
holiday City logo and text that said, read the story of this house. 00:28:44
Viewers could scan a QR code and read about the buildings they were looking at and also about the historic figures who lived 00:28:51
there. 00:28:54
We did 10 buildings last year and owners told me they enjoyed watching people standing on the sidewalk reading about their 00:28:58
building. 00:29:01
This year we're doing 30 buildings. I suggested to our chair Sandy that we add legacy businesses as well who've been operating for 00:29:06
50 plus years in holiday. 00:29:10
Jeff Barnard, the owner of the Cotton Bottom, said don't put up a sign, put up 8 signs. He was so excited about this project and 00:29:16
he, he and like many homeowners and business owners, are proud of their place and glad someone is noticing them. This outreach 00:29:22
reflects well on the city of holiday. 00:29:28
I'm going to leave you with a draft of a document that viewers will see in our Read the story of this building project. 00:29:35
This document is 46 pages long and this research took months to complete. 00:29:44
As I've gone around to houses that are on the National Register, I hear that very few have ever seen their National Registered 00:30:26
document. These documents are detailed histories of the building and the people, all of the people who live there over the 00:30:32
lifetime of the building. 00:30:37
They're like little short stories, and they're full of documented, footnoted holiday history. So this year we're giving each 00:30:43
National Register household a copy of their document. 00:30:48
Not all National Register homeowners know about the 20% state tax breaks they could have been receiving in one woman's case for 00:30:54
decades. 00:30:58
So I've been explaining to homeowners and helping them understand how to save on their tax bills. 00:31:04
Some homeowners are wary of placing their house on the National Register, fearing it will affect their property rights. I've been 00:31:09
explaining to people that this designation is honorific and in no way effects their property right. 00:31:15
Last week, the management of our Instagram account was returned to us. 00:31:26
And we began posting historic photos from our speakers. 00:31:31
We've gotten a big bump in viewers, people reaching out to ask questions. 00:31:34
To claim it was their amp that was riding the horse across the lake of the Cottonwood Club. 00:31:39
There's dissension about who it was. 00:31:44
And these, once again, I think these interactions reflect well on the city. 00:31:47
As part of my preservation, we hired David Amet for Part 2 of the grand Estates of Holiday. He'll be speaking on May 13. This will 00:31:52
include the Bambergers, the Walkers and the Dreyfus families. David has been working on this for months, meeting with the families 00:31:58
at their homes and offices, and creating fresh research and photographs. He also wrote the nomination for the George and Lyda 00:32:05
Walker House, which was accepted to the National Register this year. 00:32:11
During his lecture on May 13, we will have an art show. 00:32:19
Kathy Murphy and I dreamed up the idea to send painters around the city to paint our historic houses. As you know, we lost Kathy 00:32:23
Murphy this year, so Becky Rock from the Arts Commission, Megan and I finalized this project and we're calling it the Kathy Murphy 00:32:29
Historic Holiday Invitational. 00:32:34
Painters have been out in the city for weeks. These paintings will hang in the auditorium May 13 for David's lecture, then will be 00:32:40
moved to relics for sale. Percentages of the proceeds will be shared with our commissions. 00:32:46
So these are the new programs in holiday in just the last two years and I was happy to tell the Planning Commission about these on 00:32:54
April 2nd. 00:32:58
After my comments. 00:33:02
It was gratifying to hear that the new ordinances that explicitly, explicitly exclude the historic Commission didn't make sense to 00:33:04
planning commissioners either, one commissioner questioned. So, staff, can you tell me, how does a historical Commission work in 00:33:10
this process? 00:33:16
The answer was they do not. 00:33:22
Commissioner asked. To me that seems a little odd where they could add some expertise. I mean, they're doing all the work as far 00:33:25
as historical properties in the city. Why wouldn't we tap them? 00:33:30
Answer was that the historical commission's responsibilities don't transfer to this update. 00:33:36
Commissioner asked explicitly. I'm wondering if Council may want to reconsider them just having a role as part of it. Would it be 00:33:42
possible, at least from where we talk about listing and delisting of properties, could we at least involve them and let them know 00:33:47
that that's happening? 00:33:53
And then there was another question right after that, one of the commissioners said. Is there a rush? 00:34:00
And the answer was May is the National Historic Preservation Month. So we'd like to have something that's appropriate in whatever 00:34:07
format so they can work the details out and have that approved by May. 00:34:14
To be clear, there was number May preservation month in holiday before we created it last year. 00:34:21
It doesn't make sense to rush into may ordinances, omitting the very people who know Holiday's history and who have created these 00:34:28
popular programs. 00:34:33
Voila. 00:34:39
Then I have these. 00:34:40
And I don't know to whom I give these. This is the draft document of all of the. 00:34:43
All of the houses and all of the histories. I've included a historic photo and a present day photo of each house. There are about 00:34:50
30 of them and five businesses. 00:34:55
And. 00:35:01
Meghan's working on this right now. She's creating a website so that it'll be easy to access when people scan the QR code. So to 00:35:03
whom shall I give these? How many copies do you have? It's 2 copies that are one of them has the the map of the home tour and the 00:35:10
other one is a rough draft and they it is a rough draft. So just know that it's it's not perfect yet. 00:35:17
E-mail. 00:35:26
And then this is, this is Ron Hiltons comments. Yeah we have that. 00:35:29
Thank you very much. Thanks for your time. 00:35:35
Hey, it's still open. 00:35:44
My name is Camille Pierce. 00:35:58
I live at 2052 E Arbor Lane. 00:36:01
My home was originally built in 1938. 00:36:07
And in 1957, a careful addition was made. 00:36:12
It belonged to the prominent Dinwiddie family known for their long standing Dinwoody fine furniture. 00:36:19
The home sits on 1 1/2 acres a property, and Big Cottonwood Creek runs along the entire backside of this property. 00:36:28
We have substantial mature vegetation. 00:36:39
In a variety of flower gardens. 00:36:43
We have invested money and love by replacing all the plumbing. 00:36:47
Burying utility lines, installing solar panels. 00:36:55
Doing seismic strengthening. 00:37:00
Doing radon mitigation as well as maintaining the buildings and the yard. 00:37:03
It's all in really good condition. 00:37:10
We have already spent. 00:37:14
Close to $7000. 00:37:19
Working with an architectural firm to try and create a means of protection. 00:37:23
And preservation for this historical property. 00:37:28
We have contacted the Utah Historical Society and the state's Historical Preservation Office. 00:37:32
We've talked with some of the City Holidays Historic Committee members. 00:37:39
We've consulted with a well known historical professional architect. 00:37:44
We've been encouraged by that person that our home does have historical value. 00:37:51
We have watched every single home. 00:37:57
That's been sold, be demolished. 00:38:00
About 25 or 30 of them, something like that in our general neighborhood. 00:38:05
With very little of those materials being recycled before being taken to the dump. 00:38:11
That vegetation on these properties is typically sent to the chipper. 00:38:18
Only the empty land surface is valued. 00:38:24
It seems that only new building is valued. 00:38:30
Yet building new homes has harmful effects. 00:38:35
The cement industry pumped 2.6 billion metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year. 00:38:40
And the CO2 is in large part creating climate change. 00:38:50
We want a way to preserve our home. 00:38:59
The trees, the plantings and the property for the future. 00:39:04
It represents styles and a special time and holiday when living in nature was a respite from the stresses of city living in Salt 00:39:09
Lake. 00:39:15
Thank you. 00:39:22
Thank you. 00:39:24
My name is Steve Glaser. I live at 2052 E Arbor Lane. 00:39:45
And I want to speak to 1 portion of the ordinance. 00:39:50
That's being proposed. 00:39:56
Relating to the listing of homes or also potentially permitting. 00:39:58
The demolition of homes that have been listed. 00:40:03
And if you're having the whole point of listing from my perspective is that. 00:40:07
You're going to say I value this home. I want it to continue after I no longer own it. I can control what happens. I don't need 00:40:14
any kind of listing to make sure that the home stands as long as I'm living there. 00:40:22
This is something to. 00:40:30
That's going to bind future property owners and return. I'm going to take. 00:40:33
A cut in the amount of money I can sell the house for. 00:40:39
But if the person who buys it can then turn around and say I'd like to apply to delist it or to demolish it. 00:40:43
This just becomes a vehicle for swindling me. 00:40:51
Or, you know, maybe the person who buys it from me is all good intentions and they follow through, but the person they sell it to. 00:40:54
And when they've made that sale, they also sold it for reduced property value, so I don't understand why. 00:41:03
Someone could be permitted to delist it to demolish A. 00:41:10
Building that has been listed. 00:41:15
And I think that should be removed from the ordinance. 00:41:18
And one thing that I could imagine is, well, what if the structure has been allowed to deteriorate over time? 00:41:23
I've heard somebody refer to this, as you know, demolition by neglect. 00:41:31
And yeah, that is problematic. And I think the. 00:41:36
One solution to it is you then say well there has to be a fee. 00:41:41
The application. It probably goes beyond the $500 fee. 00:41:47
So that. 00:41:52
There can be periodic inspections and, if necessary, legal enforcement to ensure that that building is maintained. 00:41:54
So. 00:42:03
I am requesting that portions I I don't know. Let me preface this by saying I don't know how that applies to. 00:42:05
Buildings. Homes that are already on the list, but going forward. 00:42:14
I'm requesting that the language that allows the listing that allows demolition be struck. Thank you. Thank you. 00:42:19
Anybody else for? 00:42:36
Public input on the preservation ordinance. 00:42:37
Any. 00:42:43
Any input from Counts on keeping this public hearing open or? 00:42:45
So from a process perspective, at what point would it be appropriate to ask? 00:42:52
Like for example Miss Duffy her she had a number of points with where there was a. 00:42:57
Where there was the advice like seeking advice of the historical Commission was limited in some areas that she thought it might 00:43:02
not, that it might be appropriate. At what point, how, how would this go? I guess is is my question at what point would we be 00:43:09
voting on this ordinance and listen to things, Well not having heard our discussion in the work session where we'll probably get 00:43:15
in a little bit more into the weeds, it's we're we're tentatively kind of planning on May 16th about this. So we have a full 00:43:21
council. So I'd assume. 00:43:28
That's when we would vote it, but that issue I would think we will be handling at least in part during the work session tonight. 00:43:35
When we talk about public hearings, but to follow up on Ty's question if that process results in recommendations of significant 00:43:43
amendment. 00:43:48
Would it be appropriate to leave the public hearing open to address those potentialities to allow the public to comment? Yeah, I 00:43:53
think so. That would be my only, I'd say close it except for that possibility. Then I don't know whether or not there will be, but 00:44:00
it's there's certainly not potential. OK. So we'll leave this public hearing open. So we'll continue to take comment on it and if 00:44:06
if you wish to stay, we'll be discussing this in the work session here shortly. 00:44:13
But so public hearing remains open on this particular item. 00:44:21
OK. Thank you. 00:44:26
Item number. 00:44:29
6. 00:44:32
OK. Yeah, the Animal Services, we're moving to the next agenda or whatever, whenever it's appropriate to replace on the agenda. 00:44:33
That brings us to item number seven. Am I on course here? Umm. 00:44:42
This is the zone change at 6370 S Highland Drive from room to PO. I think we work through this pretty thoroughly at last council 00:44:47
meeting. I don't think there's many outstanding issues, but if there are any questions or concerns. 00:44:54
I'll open it up to the Council before we take a motion. 00:45:02
There being none, I'd be happy to take a motion, Mayor. I'd move that we. 00:45:09
Improve Orden. Excuse me or Resolution 2024-4? Excuse me. 00:45:14
2024. 00:45:21
Ordinance to their tie Ordinance 202405. 00:45:24
Amending the zoning map for property located at 6375 S Highland Drive from RM to PO. 00:45:29
2nd. 00:45:35
OK, motion and a second will go to vote on this one. Council Member Brewer, yes. Councilmember Durham, yes. Council Member 00:45:37
Fotheringham, yes. Councilmember Quinn, yes. Councilmember Gray, yes. And chair votes, yes. That zone change is approved. Thank 00:45:45
you, Council. I'm anticipating just a little discussion on the fireworks ordinance. I think the development agreement is pretty 00:45:52
non controversial at this point. That's my sense. Would there be an objection to take the agenda out of order and handle #9 first? 00:45:59
So moved. 00:46:08
Second motion. Second, all in favor, say aye aye. And so we'll take item number 9. This is consideration of resolution 2024-14. 00:46:11
This is the development agreement with Holiday LLC for property located at 2051 and 2061 Murray Holiday Rd. It was a pretty simple 00:46:19
change to that zone to put some conditions on it. It's in your packet. There was only one question and that was to plug in the 00:46:26
actual distances in the ordinance where there was an X&Y reference. 00:46:34
And let's see. 00:46:45
I think that's where it has been done, yeah. 00:46:48
Any further questions on this item? 00:46:53
Happy to take a motion. 00:46:57
Mayor I move approval of Resolute Resolution 2024-14, approving a development agreement with 2061 Holiday LLC. 00:47:00
For property located at 2051 and 2061 Murray Holiday Rd. 00:47:10
Have a motion and a second go to vote. Councilmember Brewer, yes. Councilmember Durham, yes. Councilmember Fotheringham yes. 00:47:16
Councilmember Quinn yes. Councilmember Gray, yes. And Chair votes Yes. That development agreement is proved. Thank you. 00:47:23
Thank you, Jack to item number 8, Consideration of Ordinance 2024-06, Restricting the use of personal Fireworks. 00:47:32
We have a Chief Pilgrim here in place of Chief Chief Larson or Fire Marshall. 00:47:41
We discussed this in the pre meeting and this basically is. 00:47:47
A discussion about what restrictions we want to have in holiday this coming year now that the drought conditions have basically 00:47:53
basically subsided a bit. 00:47:57
Chief, Yes, so we've talked about that. And obviously, we always are going to err on the side of public safety. 00:48:03
We've taken a sandstone with the state sheets in Utah, but in our local communities that we obviously will advocate for. 00:48:11
Restrictions. 00:48:18
They're definitely interested public safety and it does make our job a little bit safer during that time of year, but we also know 00:48:20
this is a decision that's up to every individual council. 00:48:24
As they assume or or make an assessment of the risk of they're also going to take during those seasons. So the statute is pretty 00:48:29
clear. I mean the the fire service, the fire department, our fire Marshall make a recommendation which right now that is kind of 00:48:34
maintaining the current restrictions but. 00:48:40
Yes, the Council is open to make decisions. 00:48:46
That they feel in the best interest of the city given the current conditions. You know obviously we were removed from drought 00:48:51
that's should be taken into consideration and you know the the the restrictions that we do have in place right now are based off 00:48:58
of I believe 2021 when we did kind of a valley wide effort on restricting fireworks across the board because of the current. 00:49:05
Weather and drought situation, so the math that you still have. 00:49:12
Within the city with your restrictions is based off of that and things have changed since then. I personally fight the risk is 00:49:17
reduced but again our our obviously our stance will always be to. 00:49:22
Promote and encourage restrictions, but allow you to make that decision. 00:49:29
Achieve a little history just to remind us, so was it in 2021 when we had significant drought conditions where the recommendation, 00:49:35
recommend, the current recommendation was more than a recommendation of the time, was it, it was based off necessity We we were in 00:49:42
a pretty dire situation and our challenges, you know I'm sorry, my question was it's a recommendation now was it a recommendation 00:49:49
then or was it a sorry no can do we're in drought? 00:49:57
Recommendations then as well. So, OK. So back then it was just a extreme recommendation. Yes, that was definitely, it was a 00:50:04
please, please, please recommendation, but still just a recommendation not a statute that we were required to. Yes. And I do 00:50:10
believe in the previous year and that year the fire Marshall or the state forester did restrict fire statewide. So it's based off 00:50:16
of that as well previous year, the five year recognition, right, the two years at that time the state forester had made 00:50:22
recommendations. 00:50:28
In previous years to restrict all over that that principle of the two of the last five years and what what the logic of that is to 00:50:34
the last five years, it allows for a little bit of freedom to make that decision right instead of locking you down to this is just 00:50:40
how it is you can take. 00:50:45
We're definitely always look at the most extreme years within those five years, if that makes sense, just because that does 00:51:24
provide the added public safety and deterrent. On that note of areas where there are extreme fire problems, do you have data or 00:51:31
does Chief Brown have data on the number of fires caused by fireworks in the city of holiday for the last few years? I don't hear 00:51:37
what you we can get that pretty easily, OK? 00:51:43
Are you familiar with what other cities in the county have done with respect to the recommendation of the? 00:51:50
Fire authority, yes. Within UFA, I'm very familiar. Mill Creek is staying at the 9th E line which was established in that 2021 00:51:57
effort and to go back to the not to belabor the point but in 2021 the all the municipalities on the east side of Salt Lake. 00:52:05
Valley decided to do this 9th E line, so it goes from Salt Lake City Court to Draper just in kind of a unified effort to restrict 00:52:14
fireworks in a very extreme situation within unified fire authority. Mill Creek is keeping the same restrictions. 00:52:21
They felt that restriction for their community was a little too restrictive, and they wanted to allow fireworks in places where 00:53:04
traditionally they're safe to be used. There's still quite a few restrictions in College Heights, but they're on open space. 00:53:09
Per statute, while in urban interface areas, 200 feet within waterways ravines all that and then I'll see the foothills where we 00:53:16
have the biggest problem. 00:53:20
Is there a statutory definition of? 00:53:25
Urban interface areas, yeah. And the way it's written in here. 00:53:28
It's basically the. It's really simple. It's. 00:53:34
Especially the zone where structures or other human development meet or intermega with undeveloped wildland. So for us it wouldn't 00:53:38
be like one lot in the city that has open space weeds or nothing on it. It'd be an area that's like a maybe an undeveloped park, a 00:53:44
wild area. And some areas like walking land is a good example which has traditionally been restricted that in my opinion and I've 00:53:50
done Wildland forever 23 years and it's kind of my my platform, my expertise. Walker Lane is probably classified as an interface 00:53:56
area. 00:54:02
Just because of the challenges we have getting in there without press and in the matter of apparatus and firefighters would take 00:54:09
to suppress a fire and just the vegetation within the home. So that's a traditional kind of like not mountains and houses, but an 00:54:15
area in an urban setting that would have a high, high, high fire risk. Thank you. 00:54:20
Chief, have you seen the map that the areas that holiday had restricted previous 2021, Do you feel like those areas or those the 00:54:27
areas in holiday that would qualify as that urban interface area? Yeah, when I looked at that before, I mean I have to look at it 00:54:33
again today, but when I I recall that map, it was very accurate. It was done with a lot of thought and it didn't encompass those 00:54:40
areas I would personally have concerns with. 00:54:46
And it's hard to rule mob. You know the challenge with that is especially the Collinwood Heights and Holiday where I can speak to 00:54:53
both of those is they're not clearly defined areas. They kind of wind around they there there's interface and there's not. And so 00:55:00
it makes it kind of challenging for the areas of being forced and it makes it confusing for the residents. We have kind of sneaky 00:55:08
areas that are restricted in that or not So that the value of having more broad restrictions or a clear delineated kind of boxes. 00:55:15
Is easier for the citizens to understand what's restricted and it reduces confusion. So when you start getting a little more 00:55:23
detailed on the maps, it allows for more, but it makes it more challenging for us and sometimes the citizens as well, so. 00:55:29
So on this. 00:55:37
So just to be sure I understood then on this five year rule where the two most recent years have been high water years, those 00:55:39
would carry the most weight then right is essentially what what what we're saying is that right the way I share that is you as a 00:55:45
council have the discretion to pick your two years. 00:55:52
I think those would be, in my opinion would be safe to use. Again, there is a have historically high fire danger typically always 00:55:58
aired on the side of caution. Yeah. So I feel you know you have the ability to decide what you want to do for your city, but that 00:56:04
in my opinion would be a prudent thing to consider. 00:56:10
Mapped it out their GIS specialists on what I felt we. 00:56:50
By the end of the month, end of April. 00:57:23
They gave you a little grace period into May, but the maps have to be in to the county so they can be printed on June 1st so they 00:57:27
can go on display for the public. 00:57:31
When you did this effort for Cottonwood Heights, was that then at the request of their City Council or I took that upon myself. I 00:57:38
have kind of the, the. 00:57:43
Philosophy or approach of their city manager, mind and public feedback and council. 00:57:49
Guidance or thoughts, I took all that into consideration when I went through and checked these areas and there are definitely new 00:57:55
developments and things have changed where restrictions were no longer necessary and the council members would hear from their 00:58:01
constituents and share that with me. Hey, we've had this feedback and you go look at this and so at the at the city managers 00:58:07
discretion, I'd go check that out and a lot of those we were able to change on the map, so. 00:58:13
Yeah, I think, I mean, essentially what's in front of the council is, do we want to? 00:58:20
Continue with the ban east of 1300 E, which we have the right to do based on the input we've received from the Fire Marshall. 00:58:25
Or do we think that based on the current conditions? 00:58:34
And in the spirit spirit of state legislation, which was really addressing a severe drought issue. 00:58:40
Do we revert back? And if we revert back I mean other thing is. 00:58:46
I mean if you can picture holiday in your mind, essentially everything east of 215 is off limits and I think everything between 00:58:51
2:15 and Holiday Blvd. on the South end of the city is off limits. 00:58:58
And then everything from Highland Drive to Holiday Blvd. from Arbor Lane to 6200 S, that whole area that encompasses that Walker 00:59:05
Lane areas is restricted. That's the historic Cottonwood area, correct? Yeah, yeah, the 6200 SI think and I think we have gone 200 00:59:12
feet from Spring Creek and then all the way over to 4430 S or 45th South. 00:59:20
And then the 200 foot restrictions on Spring Creek, Little Cottonwood Creek, Neffs Canyon, so. 00:59:29
A large percentage of the city is already restricted based on our own map that we created because of those high fire dangers. So 00:59:36
prior to that pardon prior to two years ago the and how long had that been in place? 00:59:42
The most recent map was done about four years ago. 00:59:50
That's when we expanded over to 4430 S at the request of the residents up here above holiday like the Kentucky area. 00:59:55
Yeah, I think I would be supportive of going back to that map and maybe not this year, but I it might be worth doing what the 01:00:03
Chief had done in Cottonwood Heights in Holiday. But I don't know if that's something that we can accomplish this year. So maybe 01:00:09
we have already done it. So it already is. Then maybe we're good. 01:00:16
OK. Well then well I mean I know that also the Mill Creek has already is keeping in place. So think also about how 39th South 01:00:23
would go. 01:00:28
People to the north of 39th South would be restricted, but South of 39th South would not, True. So that creates a little 01:00:33
uncoordination. Granted, we don't have to do everything Mill Creek does, but I think in this case it might be worth waiting 01:00:39
another year and perhaps having a discussion with Mill Creek and and trying to be a little more coordinated together for next year 01:00:45
just because then you're going to create an enforcement issue, whether you're a Mill Creek resident or holiday resident, what side 01:00:51
of 39th South you live on. 01:00:57
I think, I think also given the principle of the two out of five years, I think this is where we're talking about fireworks and 01:01:04
making changes, that it shouldn't be a flip of a coin each year, but rather a little more slow boat turn as opposed to speed boat 01:01:09
turns. 01:01:15
So I'd be in favor of extending another year in terms of caution, but I'm also, you know, very open to getting back to the 01:01:22
original map at some point, but I'm not going to cry about it either way depending on how we all vote, so. 01:01:29
I guess one of the concerns I have. I live on a high Fireworks St. 01:01:38
And there they go off all the time. And frankly, it's kind of. 01:01:44
A joke in the neighborhood about about this ordinance and I'm I'm not really comfortable with the idea of having this ordinance. 01:01:51
That is just sort of. 01:01:55
Widely flouted and we don't really do anything about and I would be I think more in favor of finding a nuanced approach where we 01:02:00
really can enforce or have a commitment to enforcing where we think it's important and not and not where we don't. 01:02:08
I would. I would agree with that. Could we have similar issues in my neighborhood? 01:02:16
Can I share a quote that I love that relates to this? 01:02:20
Friedrich Bastia, early 1800s. 01:02:25
He says when law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing their his moral sense 01:02:28
or losing his respect for the law. And so to Matt's point, for example, I think to the extent of of critical role that we play, as 01:02:36
you know, in a legislative capacity, I believe is putting moral laws into place when it's not. And when you have children who are 01:02:43
asking why can't I can't, you know, why can the rest of the world like fireworks and I can't, right? 01:02:50
It can create a disregard for the law which I think is very unhealthy and so and the other thing that sorry another quote too but 01:02:58
one thing that Chief mentioned is this propensity for government to have a hard time reeling back after they seize control you 01:03:05
could say which is true and and that's I think we're the saying that nothing is more permanent than a temporary government program 01:03:13
comes from and I think it's healthy to to dial it back when warrants. 01:03:20
Merit that. 01:03:28
Excuse me when when circumstances merit that. And so this issue of, you know, two healthy water ears to me in my my, my personal I 01:03:30
couldn't in my right conscience not go back to what we. 01:03:35
For two years ago, I guess up until two years ago. 01:03:42
And then the last point that I would just make is I do think it's incumbent on us as as a local municipal government to educate to 01:03:47
the extent possible not only what are those high risk areas, but also I think we should look into some instruction as to what are 01:03:53
the things to watch out for the buckets that with with you know, spent sparklers or whatever whatever it is that are those things 01:04:00
that most commonly cause fire, fire hazards. 01:04:07
Problems. I'd like to see a student more of that. I do love the idea like Emily said of re looking at the map and and doing 01:04:14
something that's sensible, easy. Remember we do live in a world today and with Justice and all of his magic on our GIS system and 01:04:20
everything else, we have access to maps better than we've ever had I would say. And that's a that's a resource and reference for 01:04:26
all of our residents to access as needed as well. So so Paul I was thinking about your point about not causing confusion by 01:04:32
changing things every year I think. 01:04:38