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All right, Well, good evening. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission on February 20th, 2024. Tonight in attendance we 00:00:01
have all commissioners except for Commissioner Prince, who gave regrets. She was only going to be able to join via Skype and we do 00:00:07
not have that set up to do so for her. 00:00:14
So she'll just have to yell at us later if we didn't get everything she wanted. 00:00:20
Hashed out. We also have our legal counsel and city staff Kerry Marsh with us. 00:00:24
And with that we have one item on the agenda, which is a continued public hearing item for the text amendment regarding accessory 00:00:31
dwelling units. But before we jump into all the fun and games with that, I have asked Commissioner Gong if she will read our 00:00:37
opening statement for any members of the public. 00:00:43
The City of Holiday Planning Commission is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special 00:00:54
studies, make recommendations to the City Council on proposed zoning map and ordinance changes, and approve conditional uses and 00:01:01
subdivisions. The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications, rather acts on applications as they're submitted. 00:01:07
Commissioners do not meet with applicants except at publicly noticed meetings. 00:01:14
Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda where the location. 00:01:22
The nature of the neighborhood, existing structures and uses related to the proposed change are noted. 00:01:26
Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff. 00:01:32
The cities in our city's general plan, zoning ordinance and other reports. 00:01:36
By all verbal and written comments and by evidence submitted, all of which are part of the public record. 00:01:41
Thank you very much, Commissioner. 00:01:46
All right. And with that. 00:01:49
Carrie, if you will, just give us a brief overview and maybe a shout out since our last meeting. 00:01:52
The highlighted changes in the text amendment that we should be aware of, which by my recollection should have addressed three of 00:01:59
those things I sent out in the e-mail that we hopefully have figured out now. 00:02:04
Yes. So updated staff report kind of overviewed some of those changes that we discussed last time. And specifically we went over 00:02:10
ownership requirements. The Planning Commission wanted to see specific definitions for immediate family. So that's included in the 00:02:16
new language. 00:02:22
The language currently has a 10,000 square foot lot size and minimum. 00:02:30
There is an addition on there for corner lots and lots that have double frontage as they have two St. accesses. 00:02:37
Some of those details may need to be ironed out a little more with setbacks, because corner lots are a little bit more unique on 00:02:46
setbacks. 00:02:50
Other changes that were made. 00:02:55
Let's see. 00:02:59
Going through my list here. 00:03:02
Because we haven't gone into the conversion of existing accessory buildings. That's our later discussion. 00:03:06
Corner lots, double frontage, 10,000. Oh, and then the height is the other thing that we're looking at. The new proposed language 00:03:13
has graduated height set at six feet high for on the property line and then 45° over. For primary structures this is 8 feet and 00:03:20
then 45 over, so that does. 00:03:27
Create a lower profile for. 00:03:36
For external ad use, we did set the set back to a 10 foot minimum and then required to be larger according to the chart that's in 00:03:40
our current code for larger properties. 00:03:46
I believe that there is all of the changes that are on there. You can see the changes in the draft text. It's in the blue 00:03:54
underlines. 00:03:59
And the red is crossed out. Forward changes. 00:04:05
I think there are some changes in the red as well. Oh. 00:04:11
Oh, we added the dwelling unit occupancy as well into the code. So that's consistent through our code is occupancy is any number 00:04:16
of persons related by blood, marriage, adoption. So that just addresses the occupancy of units itself. 00:04:22
But ownership of the. 00:04:30
Is addressed in #4. 00:04:33
Lines 20 through 27 in the text. 00:04:37
Height All of the height was pulled from our existing code on accessory buildings. 00:04:43
With the graduated height envelope, specifically the change to. 00:04:50
6 feet is on line 81. 00:04:56
And then your minimum setbacks are on line 43 or 73 and 74. 00:05:00
I think that's everything. Are there any questions that the commissioners have for me before? 00:05:07
Well, I was, since we're working through this kind of a checklist specific type of order, unless any commissioners have any 00:05:13
objection, I figured maybe we'd start with any public comments so they don't have to sit through the next hour of discussion 00:05:20
waiting to to offer what they might have from the public. And then maybe we can move into ironing out some of those details later. 00:05:27
Does anyone have any concerns with doing that format tonight? 00:05:34
OK. So we'll have you sit down. Thank you very much. And with that, this is a continued public hearing. So we will invite any 00:05:42
members of the public that wish to come up and give feedback or input on this text amendment. We would ask that you keep that to 3 00:05:48
minutes or less. And when you come to the podium, please state your name and address for the record. And with that, if anyone 00:05:54
would like to come up and make comment, we'll start those now. 00:06:00
All right. 00:06:10
Ron Hilton, 2394 Murray Holiday Rd. 00:06:15
I already sent an e-mail, so hopefully you saw that it was a fairly technical point. 00:06:21
Regarding. 00:06:29
The zones in which Adus should be allowed according to the state law. 00:06:31
I don't need to go into that if you if you saw that. 00:06:41
I don't think we've seen it. Was this sent at a prior time or did you send this today? I sent it a couple days ago. Was it on 00:06:45
Friday? 00:06:49
Actually, I think I sent it Sunday. On Sunday, yeah, so it didn't get added in with the holiday, but if you. 00:06:54
Want to just address your points on that? Sure, it's very brief. 00:07:02
OK. 00:07:25
So the. 00:07:27
The ordinance, as I implied, isn't entirely compliant with the state law. So reading the state law here, this is. 00:07:29
Section 10, nine A 5:30. 00:07:37
Internal accessory dwelling units in any area zoned primarily for residential use. 00:07:40
Hey, the use of an internal accessory dwelling unit is a permitted use. 00:07:47
B. Except as provided in subsections 3 and 4, skipping down to subsection 4. 00:07:53
A municipality may require that an internal accessory dwelling unit be designed in a manner that does not change the appearance of 00:07:59
the primary dwelling as a single family dwelling. 00:08:04
And then skipping down to. 00:08:10
The municipality may prohibit the creation of an internal accessory dwelling unit if the lot containing the primary dwelling unit 00:08:12
is 6000 square feet or less in size. 00:08:18
And so the point I want to get from that. 00:08:24
There is no requirement that the dwelling unit be in a single family zone. 00:08:29
It's only required that it be part of a single family detached. 00:08:34
Primary dwelling unit. 00:08:39
And that the lot be at least 6000 square feet, so the multifamily zones. 00:08:41
In holiday do allow for single family homes. 00:08:47
R28R210 RM all have a section that says you could have a single family home. 00:08:51
And so as long as the lot is at least 6000 square. 00:08:59
Then you know the according to the state law that should you know an Adu should be allowed an internal Adu. And so the change I 00:09:03
suggest is just less than one sentence. It's just in the very first paragraph of the. 00:09:11
Of the statute that we're reviewing tonight where it says. 00:09:19
Existing or new construction of accessory dwelling units are permitted in all single family residential zones R1 Fr one Fr 2.5 Fr 00:09:24
20 and then the part I would add is and single family dwellings in multifamily residential zones R2 RM on lots at least 6000 00:09:31
square feet in size. 00:09:38
That's the only thing I would add, but that would bring it into full conformity with the state law. 00:09:45
So that was really my only comment. 00:09:50
Thank you. Thank you, Ron. Appreciate that. And before we take another public comment on that, I'll just ask real quick. 00:09:53
Carrie, is that something that? 00:10:03
You have any insight on? 00:10:05
As far as requirement. 00:10:07
Council I do 13.04040 holiday city code. 00:10:09
Carrie, can you pull that up? 00:10:16
13.04 dot 04. 00:10:26
Detach straight within or detach. 00:11:00
So the section that Mister Hilton was referring to is internal ad use, which are allowed in every. 00:11:04
Zone by state code. 00:11:11
This is more this particular section is focusing on accessory dwelling units which are exterior to the home, not attached. 00:11:14
And not a part of the main res. 00:11:23
Primary residence. 00:11:26
So at least that's the intent. 00:11:28
Yeah. So I think what Mr. Hilton is saying is on. 00:11:31
Within our existing code for accessory dwelling units. 00:11:36
Just cleaning up the language while we are in there to. 00:11:39
Clarify that it's any single family dwelling. 00:11:44
Within any residential zone. 00:11:48
Instead of limiting to the. 00:11:50
Those specific Z. 00:11:52
But in the multi family, are we saying that, is that the intent? Do we really want in a multi family but if it's a single family 00:11:55
home to allow for an accessory dwelling unit? 00:11:59
If it's a signal I'm asking, I'm not telling. 00:12:04
But it'd be internal, not external in that language. Internal. Well, you can do internal, right? I mean that's that's kind of a 00:12:08
given. Yeah. Our code just says spelled out specifically R1, Fr one, Fr, 2.5 and FR20. So if we just clarify, take out those 00:12:15
zones, it's just a single family dwelling in a residential zone. 00:12:22
And then that would correct with the. 00:12:30
Yeah, so then that clears up the doesn't create a conflict. I don't see that that creates a conflict. 00:12:33
I can note that change good technical call out from the public. Thank you. And with that we'll we'll resume from any other members 00:12:40
of the public that wish make a comment tonight. 00:12:44
Well, I'm David Seaman. I'm talking about property, 4996 Mormont Circle. 00:12:51
I've got some paper for each of you. Can I hand that? 00:12:56
You. 00:13:02
Paper to hand out about your property site plan? Yeah. A plot map of what I've proposed to do. I'm this is my wife, Mindy. We we 00:13:03
hang on just a minute. You're not on the agenda. 00:13:07
So are you. We, In order for you to present before the Planning Commission, we have to. You know, state code requires you be a 00:13:12
part of the agenda. Oh, and you're not. So if this is the only thing we're accepting coming on right now, is the public hearing 00:13:17
related to that accessory dwelling unit, public amendments? 00:13:22
That's what I'm here to talk about. 00:13:28
Is an accessory growing. I've talked to her several times and. 00:13:30
So you're talking about the specific text of the. 00:13:33
Code here or or a site plan the size of the lot. 00:13:36
If it's a waste of time to have the paper, I won't, but I, my wife and I, I don't. I don't illegal anything, but we saved up a 00:13:40
long time and bought 2 properties in the last three to four years in holiday. 00:13:45
With the intent of putting Adus on them. And during my due diligence period, I came in and talked to the planners and they said, 00:13:50
yeah, that seems sort of reasonable. And apparently in the last four years that's changed. 00:13:54
And now we have these properties that I came in to apply and for an Adu on this has a. 00:13:59
It's called the Double St. Front potentially, and it's a perfectly everything meets code, everything meets the height 00:14:06
restrictions. The what? Everything else except for the lot requirement of I think it's one now, one acre now. 00:14:12
Hope to have 8000 square foot lots to be the qualifier or 10,000 square foot quarter acre, whatever that is 10,000. Well quarter 00:14:49
would technically 11, but yeah, 10,000 would work, yeah, yeah. 00:14:56
So it already is 10,000 now, right? 00:15:04
Currently. 00:15:06
For me to have an external Adu you have to have 1/2 acre. 00:15:09
So our proposed, yes, our proposed changes brings that down to 10,000. 00:15:16
Understand. Sorry, what was your name again? David Seaman. David Seaman. Understand we've been working on this now for a little 00:15:22
over two months, so no worries. There's a little blur in there on some of these things. But yeah, if you wanna just give us a 00:15:27
quick rundown on your property and how the thoughts you have on the text amendment, we'll be happy to hear those. So hand them out 00:15:32
or not. 00:15:38
What's up and about or not anybody Needle. Copy. Sure. I'm a little reluctant to talk about a specific property when we're talking 00:15:43
about an ordinance. 00:15:49
I think, I think he has a point to make about the size going down, which is what we're proposing and he. 00:15:55
Might even support that. I very much support that. I just don't want to get into the weeds about a specific property. 00:16:02
Especially if it's something you might bring back to us in the future, then we don't have any. 00:16:10
Somehow we've approved something very much until there's an ordinance. No, she don't have the standard that I e-mail something or 00:16:15
and I've been super busy the last five weeks with a funeral and a bunch of other stuff going on. So yeah, she said just show up 00:16:19
and just talk and so I that's, yeah, I I think. 00:16:23
I would prefer that we not talk about the mixing. Just OK, that makes sense when you put it that way. 00:16:28
You might just want to stick around. 00:16:33
Or if there's that being said, you're welcome to go ahead and just make comment on the text amendment. Let's just do let's go with 00:16:37
that and then if anybody needs supplement, we'll go from there. I just very much support being able to lower the acreage to be 00:16:42
able to do these projects. 00:16:46
We own several properties and we buy and sell and I'm a general contractor. This is a part of our retirement is these income 00:16:52
properties and. 00:16:55
I love this town. We live in this town up on Wallace Lane and. 00:16:59
I support being able to utilize this valuable property to have a couple more people live in town and pay taxes. 00:17:03
OK. All right. Any questions for David from anyone, can I? Yeah and that so you own two properties, do you live on one of them, 00:17:11
you own three properties on holiday, we live on Wallace Lane. 00:17:16
But if I build this Adu, I would market it as a potential this thing is going to pay half your mortgage. 00:17:23
Here's the code. 00:17:29
This doesn't need to be my primary residence to make this a **** *** property. 00:17:31
I can market the thing as here's your two car garage, here's this, this is the pathway, here's the fence. 00:17:35
This could be for your mother-in-law. This could be for your daughter that just got pregnant. This could be for your, you know, 00:17:40
your widowed whoever, right? But. 00:17:44
I see that as a valuable huge asset when marketing a property to flip. So just to clarify, your interest in this would be from. 00:17:49
Financial incentive for yourself to go in and find these older properties and build an additional external Adu and then market it 00:18:00
as hey, you can get two houses for just a little bit more than the price of one type of scenario or internal. I've built a not 00:18:07
100. I've built many, many walkout basements. Cut out the window, cut the concrete rear egress, lock outdoor at the bottom of the 00:18:13
stairs like like that's. People see value in that when you can rent the basement for $1800 and pay half your mortgage. So yeah. 00:18:20
OK, Yep. 00:18:28
All right. Well, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Yeah. 00:18:30
All right. And is there any other public comment at this time? 00:18:35
OK. With that we will. 00:18:40
Close the public comments and now we will move into the finer points of let me make sure I got my 4 bullets on here that I'm not 00:18:42
mistaken on where we've covered. We need to pin down lot size, that's one of them. Currently it's proposed at 10. Ki assume 00:18:49
there's going to be a little bit of discussion around that And then we also need to talk about the smaller setbacks or 00:18:55
requirements for corner lots, what to do with the non conforming. 00:19:02
Existing structures and how this will apply to those and then. 00:19:10
I think there was just a little bit of clarity that we wanted to or I wanted to touchback on to with the minimum setbacks, but 10 00:19:14
foot sounds kind of like it was in line with what we're talking about last time. 00:19:19
So with that, let's. 00:19:25
Height. 00:19:29
Thank you. 00:19:30
Thank you. Thank you. 00:19:35
So with that, to kind of start into this discussion. 00:19:37
There were just a couple points of the text that I wanted to call out. 00:19:41
One of them was on lines 56 and 57, which specifically says be designed in a manner that is compatible with the neighborhood 00:19:46
residential vernacular. My concern around that is it's highly subjective and I could make an argument that every EADU should be 00:19:52
denied because it doesn't match what I think it should match in my neighborhood. So I wasn't sure if that was something other 00:19:58
people recognized or had concern on with Commissioner Gong. Yeah I that was one of my comments that I wrote last week is we've 00:20:05
this has come up in other. 00:20:11
You know applications? Does this match? 00:20:18
Whatever flavor the. 00:20:21
Neighborhood has, and I just find it to be not a very meaningful thing because some people say yes it does and other people say no 00:20:23
it doesn't. 00:20:26
I don't know. Looks like a house, you know? So I agree that that language to me is not. 00:20:29
Very median. It just makes a place to argue and say the roof looks different than our neighborhood. I don't like it. 00:20:35
Your house is square and none of the other houses are square, right. Like, I mean there's just there's there's lots of arguments 00:20:42
to be made there when you start getting into the vernacular discussion. So Commissioners, one thing I just wanted to check on, do 00:20:47
we feel like that? 00:20:51
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Transcript
All right, Well, good evening. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission on February 20th, 2024. Tonight in attendance we 00:00:01
have all commissioners except for Commissioner Prince, who gave regrets. She was only going to be able to join via Skype and we do 00:00:07
not have that set up to do so for her. 00:00:14
So she'll just have to yell at us later if we didn't get everything she wanted. 00:00:20
Hashed out. We also have our legal counsel and city staff Kerry Marsh with us. 00:00:24
And with that we have one item on the agenda, which is a continued public hearing item for the text amendment regarding accessory 00:00:31
dwelling units. But before we jump into all the fun and games with that, I have asked Commissioner Gong if she will read our 00:00:37
opening statement for any members of the public. 00:00:43
The City of Holiday Planning Commission is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special 00:00:54
studies, make recommendations to the City Council on proposed zoning map and ordinance changes, and approve conditional uses and 00:01:01
subdivisions. The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications, rather acts on applications as they're submitted. 00:01:07
Commissioners do not meet with applicants except at publicly noticed meetings. 00:01:14
Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda where the location. 00:01:22
The nature of the neighborhood, existing structures and uses related to the proposed change are noted. 00:01:26
Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff. 00:01:32
The cities in our city's general plan, zoning ordinance and other reports. 00:01:36
By all verbal and written comments and by evidence submitted, all of which are part of the public record. 00:01:41
Thank you very much, Commissioner. 00:01:46
All right. And with that. 00:01:49
Carrie, if you will, just give us a brief overview and maybe a shout out since our last meeting. 00:01:52
The highlighted changes in the text amendment that we should be aware of, which by my recollection should have addressed three of 00:01:59
those things I sent out in the e-mail that we hopefully have figured out now. 00:02:04
Yes. So updated staff report kind of overviewed some of those changes that we discussed last time. And specifically we went over 00:02:10
ownership requirements. The Planning Commission wanted to see specific definitions for immediate family. So that's included in the 00:02:16
new language. 00:02:22
The language currently has a 10,000 square foot lot size and minimum. 00:02:30
There is an addition on there for corner lots and lots that have double frontage as they have two St. accesses. 00:02:37
Some of those details may need to be ironed out a little more with setbacks, because corner lots are a little bit more unique on 00:02:46
setbacks. 00:02:50
Other changes that were made. 00:02:55
Let's see. 00:02:59
Going through my list here. 00:03:02
Because we haven't gone into the conversion of existing accessory buildings. That's our later discussion. 00:03:06
Corner lots, double frontage, 10,000. Oh, and then the height is the other thing that we're looking at. The new proposed language 00:03:13
has graduated height set at six feet high for on the property line and then 45° over. For primary structures this is 8 feet and 00:03:20
then 45 over, so that does. 00:03:27
Create a lower profile for. 00:03:36
For external ad use, we did set the set back to a 10 foot minimum and then required to be larger according to the chart that's in 00:03:40
our current code for larger properties. 00:03:46
I believe that there is all of the changes that are on there. You can see the changes in the draft text. It's in the blue 00:03:54
underlines. 00:03:59
And the red is crossed out. Forward changes. 00:04:05
I think there are some changes in the red as well. Oh. 00:04:11
Oh, we added the dwelling unit occupancy as well into the code. So that's consistent through our code is occupancy is any number 00:04:16
of persons related by blood, marriage, adoption. So that just addresses the occupancy of units itself. 00:04:22
But ownership of the. 00:04:30
Is addressed in #4. 00:04:33
Lines 20 through 27 in the text. 00:04:37
Height All of the height was pulled from our existing code on accessory buildings. 00:04:43
With the graduated height envelope, specifically the change to. 00:04:50
6 feet is on line 81. 00:04:56
And then your minimum setbacks are on line 43 or 73 and 74. 00:05:00
I think that's everything. Are there any questions that the commissioners have for me before? 00:05:07
Well, I was, since we're working through this kind of a checklist specific type of order, unless any commissioners have any 00:05:13
objection, I figured maybe we'd start with any public comments so they don't have to sit through the next hour of discussion 00:05:20
waiting to to offer what they might have from the public. And then maybe we can move into ironing out some of those details later. 00:05:27
Does anyone have any concerns with doing that format tonight? 00:05:34
OK. So we'll have you sit down. Thank you very much. And with that, this is a continued public hearing. So we will invite any 00:05:42
members of the public that wish to come up and give feedback or input on this text amendment. We would ask that you keep that to 3 00:05:48
minutes or less. And when you come to the podium, please state your name and address for the record. And with that, if anyone 00:05:54
would like to come up and make comment, we'll start those now. 00:06:00
All right. 00:06:10
Ron Hilton, 2394 Murray Holiday Rd. 00:06:15
I already sent an e-mail, so hopefully you saw that it was a fairly technical point. 00:06:21
Regarding. 00:06:29
The zones in which Adus should be allowed according to the state law. 00:06:31
I don't need to go into that if you if you saw that. 00:06:41
I don't think we've seen it. Was this sent at a prior time or did you send this today? I sent it a couple days ago. Was it on 00:06:45
Friday? 00:06:49
Actually, I think I sent it Sunday. On Sunday, yeah, so it didn't get added in with the holiday, but if you. 00:06:54
Want to just address your points on that? Sure, it's very brief. 00:07:02
OK. 00:07:25
So the. 00:07:27
The ordinance, as I implied, isn't entirely compliant with the state law. So reading the state law here, this is. 00:07:29
Section 10, nine A 5:30. 00:07:37
Internal accessory dwelling units in any area zoned primarily for residential use. 00:07:40
Hey, the use of an internal accessory dwelling unit is a permitted use. 00:07:47
B. Except as provided in subsections 3 and 4, skipping down to subsection 4. 00:07:53
A municipality may require that an internal accessory dwelling unit be designed in a manner that does not change the appearance of 00:07:59
the primary dwelling as a single family dwelling. 00:08:04
And then skipping down to. 00:08:10
The municipality may prohibit the creation of an internal accessory dwelling unit if the lot containing the primary dwelling unit 00:08:12
is 6000 square feet or less in size. 00:08:18
And so the point I want to get from that. 00:08:24
There is no requirement that the dwelling unit be in a single family zone. 00:08:29
It's only required that it be part of a single family detached. 00:08:34
Primary dwelling unit. 00:08:39
And that the lot be at least 6000 square feet, so the multifamily zones. 00:08:41
In holiday do allow for single family homes. 00:08:47
R28R210 RM all have a section that says you could have a single family home. 00:08:51
And so as long as the lot is at least 6000 square. 00:08:59
Then you know the according to the state law that should you know an Adu should be allowed an internal Adu. And so the change I 00:09:03
suggest is just less than one sentence. It's just in the very first paragraph of the. 00:09:11
Of the statute that we're reviewing tonight where it says. 00:09:19
Existing or new construction of accessory dwelling units are permitted in all single family residential zones R1 Fr one Fr 2.5 Fr 00:09:24
20 and then the part I would add is and single family dwellings in multifamily residential zones R2 RM on lots at least 6000 00:09:31
square feet in size. 00:09:38
That's the only thing I would add, but that would bring it into full conformity with the state law. 00:09:45
So that was really my only comment. 00:09:50
Thank you. Thank you, Ron. Appreciate that. And before we take another public comment on that, I'll just ask real quick. 00:09:53
Carrie, is that something that? 00:10:03
You have any insight on? 00:10:05
As far as requirement. 00:10:07
Council I do 13.04040 holiday city code. 00:10:09
Carrie, can you pull that up? 00:10:16
13.04 dot 04. 00:10:26
Detach straight within or detach. 00:11:00
So the section that Mister Hilton was referring to is internal ad use, which are allowed in every. 00:11:04
Zone by state code. 00:11:11
This is more this particular section is focusing on accessory dwelling units which are exterior to the home, not attached. 00:11:14
And not a part of the main res. 00:11:23
Primary residence. 00:11:26
So at least that's the intent. 00:11:28
Yeah. So I think what Mr. Hilton is saying is on. 00:11:31
Within our existing code for accessory dwelling units. 00:11:36
Just cleaning up the language while we are in there to. 00:11:39
Clarify that it's any single family dwelling. 00:11:44
Within any residential zone. 00:11:48
Instead of limiting to the. 00:11:50
Those specific Z. 00:11:52
But in the multi family, are we saying that, is that the intent? Do we really want in a multi family but if it's a single family 00:11:55
home to allow for an accessory dwelling unit? 00:11:59
If it's a signal I'm asking, I'm not telling. 00:12:04
But it'd be internal, not external in that language. Internal. Well, you can do internal, right? I mean that's that's kind of a 00:12:08
given. Yeah. Our code just says spelled out specifically R1, Fr one, Fr, 2.5 and FR20. So if we just clarify, take out those 00:12:15
zones, it's just a single family dwelling in a residential zone. 00:12:22
And then that would correct with the. 00:12:30
Yeah, so then that clears up the doesn't create a conflict. I don't see that that creates a conflict. 00:12:33
I can note that change good technical call out from the public. Thank you. And with that we'll we'll resume from any other members 00:12:40
of the public that wish make a comment tonight. 00:12:44
Well, I'm David Seaman. I'm talking about property, 4996 Mormont Circle. 00:12:51
I've got some paper for each of you. Can I hand that? 00:12:56
You. 00:13:02
Paper to hand out about your property site plan? Yeah. A plot map of what I've proposed to do. I'm this is my wife, Mindy. We we 00:13:03
hang on just a minute. You're not on the agenda. 00:13:07
So are you. We, In order for you to present before the Planning Commission, we have to. You know, state code requires you be a 00:13:12
part of the agenda. Oh, and you're not. So if this is the only thing we're accepting coming on right now, is the public hearing 00:13:17
related to that accessory dwelling unit, public amendments? 00:13:22
That's what I'm here to talk about. 00:13:28
Is an accessory growing. I've talked to her several times and. 00:13:30
So you're talking about the specific text of the. 00:13:33
Code here or or a site plan the size of the lot. 00:13:36
If it's a waste of time to have the paper, I won't, but I, my wife and I, I don't. I don't illegal anything, but we saved up a 00:13:40
long time and bought 2 properties in the last three to four years in holiday. 00:13:45
With the intent of putting Adus on them. And during my due diligence period, I came in and talked to the planners and they said, 00:13:50
yeah, that seems sort of reasonable. And apparently in the last four years that's changed. 00:13:54
And now we have these properties that I came in to apply and for an Adu on this has a. 00:13:59
It's called the Double St. Front potentially, and it's a perfectly everything meets code, everything meets the height 00:14:06
restrictions. The what? Everything else except for the lot requirement of I think it's one now, one acre now. 00:14:12
Hope to have 8000 square foot lots to be the qualifier or 10,000 square foot quarter acre, whatever that is 10,000. Well quarter 00:14:49
would technically 11, but yeah, 10,000 would work, yeah, yeah. 00:14:56
So it already is 10,000 now, right? 00:15:04
Currently. 00:15:06
For me to have an external Adu you have to have 1/2 acre. 00:15:09
So our proposed, yes, our proposed changes brings that down to 10,000. 00:15:16
Understand. Sorry, what was your name again? David Seaman. David Seaman. Understand we've been working on this now for a little 00:15:22
over two months, so no worries. There's a little blur in there on some of these things. But yeah, if you wanna just give us a 00:15:27
quick rundown on your property and how the thoughts you have on the text amendment, we'll be happy to hear those. So hand them out 00:15:32
or not. 00:15:38
What's up and about or not anybody Needle. Copy. Sure. I'm a little reluctant to talk about a specific property when we're talking 00:15:43
about an ordinance. 00:15:49
I think, I think he has a point to make about the size going down, which is what we're proposing and he. 00:15:55
Might even support that. I very much support that. I just don't want to get into the weeds about a specific property. 00:16:02
Especially if it's something you might bring back to us in the future, then we don't have any. 00:16:10
Somehow we've approved something very much until there's an ordinance. No, she don't have the standard that I e-mail something or 00:16:15
and I've been super busy the last five weeks with a funeral and a bunch of other stuff going on. So yeah, she said just show up 00:16:19
and just talk and so I that's, yeah, I I think. 00:16:23
I would prefer that we not talk about the mixing. Just OK, that makes sense when you put it that way. 00:16:28
You might just want to stick around. 00:16:33
Or if there's that being said, you're welcome to go ahead and just make comment on the text amendment. Let's just do let's go with 00:16:37
that and then if anybody needs supplement, we'll go from there. I just very much support being able to lower the acreage to be 00:16:42
able to do these projects. 00:16:46
We own several properties and we buy and sell and I'm a general contractor. This is a part of our retirement is these income 00:16:52
properties and. 00:16:55
I love this town. We live in this town up on Wallace Lane and. 00:16:59
I support being able to utilize this valuable property to have a couple more people live in town and pay taxes. 00:17:03
OK. All right. Any questions for David from anyone, can I? Yeah and that so you own two properties, do you live on one of them, 00:17:11
you own three properties on holiday, we live on Wallace Lane. 00:17:16
But if I build this Adu, I would market it as a potential this thing is going to pay half your mortgage. 00:17:23
Here's the code. 00:17:29
This doesn't need to be my primary residence to make this a **** *** property. 00:17:31
I can market the thing as here's your two car garage, here's this, this is the pathway, here's the fence. 00:17:35
This could be for your mother-in-law. This could be for your daughter that just got pregnant. This could be for your, you know, 00:17:40
your widowed whoever, right? But. 00:17:44
I see that as a valuable huge asset when marketing a property to flip. So just to clarify, your interest in this would be from. 00:17:49
Financial incentive for yourself to go in and find these older properties and build an additional external Adu and then market it 00:18:00
as hey, you can get two houses for just a little bit more than the price of one type of scenario or internal. I've built a not 00:18:07
100. I've built many, many walkout basements. Cut out the window, cut the concrete rear egress, lock outdoor at the bottom of the 00:18:13
stairs like like that's. People see value in that when you can rent the basement for $1800 and pay half your mortgage. So yeah. 00:18:20
OK, Yep. 00:18:28
All right. Well, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Yeah. 00:18:30
All right. And is there any other public comment at this time? 00:18:35
OK. With that we will. 00:18:40
Close the public comments and now we will move into the finer points of let me make sure I got my 4 bullets on here that I'm not 00:18:42
mistaken on where we've covered. We need to pin down lot size, that's one of them. Currently it's proposed at 10. Ki assume 00:18:49
there's going to be a little bit of discussion around that And then we also need to talk about the smaller setbacks or 00:18:55
requirements for corner lots, what to do with the non conforming. 00:19:02
Existing structures and how this will apply to those and then. 00:19:10
I think there was just a little bit of clarity that we wanted to or I wanted to touchback on to with the minimum setbacks, but 10 00:19:14
foot sounds kind of like it was in line with what we're talking about last time. 00:19:19
So with that, let's. 00:19:25
Height. 00:19:29
Thank you. 00:19:30
Thank you. Thank you. 00:19:35
So with that, to kind of start into this discussion. 00:19:37
There were just a couple points of the text that I wanted to call out. 00:19:41
One of them was on lines 56 and 57, which specifically says be designed in a manner that is compatible with the neighborhood 00:19:46
residential vernacular. My concern around that is it's highly subjective and I could make an argument that every EADU should be 00:19:52
denied because it doesn't match what I think it should match in my neighborhood. So I wasn't sure if that was something other 00:19:58
people recognized or had concern on with Commissioner Gong. Yeah I that was one of my comments that I wrote last week is we've 00:20:05
this has come up in other. 00:20:11
You know applications? Does this match? 00:20:18
Whatever flavor the. 00:20:21
Neighborhood has, and I just find it to be not a very meaningful thing because some people say yes it does and other people say no 00:20:23
it doesn't. 00:20:26
I don't know. Looks like a house, you know? So I agree that that language to me is not. 00:20:29
Very median. It just makes a place to argue and say the roof looks different than our neighborhood. I don't like it. 00:20:35
Your house is square and none of the other houses are square, right. Like, I mean there's just there's there's lots of arguments 00:20:42
to be made there when you start getting into the vernacular discussion. So Commissioners, one thing I just wanted to check on, do 00:20:47
we feel like that? 00:20:51
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