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Good afternoon. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission work meeting. I believe we have all commissioners in attendance 00:00:00
and both members of city staff and legal counsel representing. So it's a full house and a party. We have just the one legislative 00:00:07
item today, and this is a continued item from the last meeting when I was not here. So I'm going to lean heavily on everybody else 00:00:15
that was to tell me what I missed and we'll just turn it right. 00:00:22
City staff to launch us in so we can have the Q&A and fun stuff out of the way. 00:00:30
OK, so on this one I highlighted the items that were added into the staff report. 00:00:36
Essentially, how many properties this change would affect? So there's eight properties that are currently zoned as PO. They're all 00:00:43
on 80 foot wide right of ways. 39 properties are zoned as RM. These properties already have the short term rental right associated 00:00:51
with being in the RM zone. So those could potentially rezone to PO because they're all being used as. 00:00:59
Office space so. 00:01:08
By allowing short term rentals conditionally in the PO zone, you're just moving that right from the room zone to the PO zone. So 00:01:11
that's the difference. I kept my recommendation the same, but there is some flexibility here. Commissioner Baron did talk about 00:01:18
last time. 00:01:24
Doing a positive recommendation to City Council and leaving it up to them as if they want to do it in the general plan or if they 00:01:33
wanted to make that change currently. So I'm kind of open to any discussion or questions on that. 00:01:40
I think the issue was that. 00:01:56
You know, this affects more than one property in one zone and that and I, my feeling remains that this is a great concept and 00:01:58
they're worthy of discussion when we do the general plan. But to spot zone, you know, to pick off PO and not deal with all the 00:02:06
others and not figure out what the overall rationale is. I'm I'm just nervous about doing that. And this was a case where the 00:02:13
applicant. 00:02:20
Made his own change to the zone and then didn't get what he wanted when he decided he wanted to do. I remember the request was to 00:02:28
have to to residential units and then it changed after he made the request and was granted that and that and so I I'm still of the 00:02:37
opinion that without the context of the whole general plan and how. 00:02:45
These units ought to be allowed across all of the zones in the city. 00:02:54
So I'm still in favor of not dealing with this. 00:03:00
Just to clarify, this is. 00:03:07
This is a text amendment. This is a text amendment for all the zoning. This is not a conditional use just for him, right, Right. 00:03:11
It's a conditional use for short term rentals being permitted or sorry, conditionally permitted in the PO zone. So right now it 00:03:18
does not, it's not a permitted conditional use. 00:03:25
In the PO zone, it is a conditional use in the RM zone, which many of these properties that are RM would convert to PO at some 00:03:33
point. But in the RM, if it's, is it a conditional use that would have to come before Planning Commission if this same text 00:03:40
amendment goes through with all future still in the PO go through that same process? 00:03:47
So really it's, it's not like we're green lighting short term rentals across the board to just nobody has any say or input on 00:03:55
them. They still have to go through the process. We're just extending it from the RM zone that it already has over to the PO zone 00:04:01
then, right, right. 00:04:06
OK, Chair, I would caution you on a conditional use is. 00:04:13
Not as conditional as you think, as you might think. So that's why I call it a permitted. You set up, you know certain regulations 00:04:19
that you have to jump through these hoops or meet these certain conditions. If they meet those conditions it has to be approved 00:04:25
kind of thing. That's so conditional uses used to be. 00:04:31
Very subjective and the courts over the years have. 00:04:39
Made them objective. 00:04:43
So if you have it a conditional use, you can set reasonable conditions, but if they meet those reasonable conditions, they get it. 00:04:45
But it still would fall in line with basically matching the room which already has those set conditions in place, right? Other 00:04:52
than this allows a PO, I should say differs with the RM as it allows certain office space to be used as where the RM doesn't, 00:05:01
right? So the PO zone kind of expanded office uses to include medical. 00:05:09
Educational uses? What else was in the PO zone that was added in? 00:05:19
Mostly medical, you know. 00:05:24
So it's just allowing the office space that already exists to be used for a wider range of professional services. 00:05:26
And then the PO zone has the residential use as a conditional use. So the applicant originally applied for changing to the PO zone 00:05:34
and then doing the so that he could expand his office uses in that zone and then. 00:05:43
Wanted to do the residential units above, so then the process within. Now being in the PO zone he needed to do the conditional use 00:05:53
for those residential spaces. 00:05:57
Two questions. So this really isn't a general plan item, is it? I mean, this is not what the general plan is meant to do to solve 00:06:04
specific zoning. 00:06:09
That's my first question and maybe that's too arbitrary of a question to answer. So the second one is this will be a conditional 00:06:17
use permit if we do approve it. So what are the criteria or the? 00:06:23
Measures by which they have to meet to get this approved. Have we thought about whether parking? I think that's probably one of 00:06:31
the ones you talked about last time. 00:06:36
Umm is there? 00:06:41
And so it will stay the same then as far as the use. 00:06:47
Zone, PO zone be added to these criteria. So originally this criteria only looked at room and R2. So now we're going to say RMR 2 00:06:51
and PO has to meet these criteria. So the Planning Commission has to approve it if they can show you that they meet all of these 00:07:00
elements. So in your experience, does this, has this been enough to do these and are you satisfied with the results? 00:07:08
From my point of view, yes. So considering this in the PO areas, to me they're all on major streets or on major arterials, which. 00:07:18
You probably wouldn't even know that somebody was staying there. 00:07:27
So I'm always looking at the impact of the neighborhood and in these cases I don't see that there is measurable or that was the 00:07:31
intent is to keep those uses on those major streets. 00:07:36
You had to be in an room zone, you had to be in R2, but you also had to be on a major Rd. 00:07:43
And these all are so that meets that criteria. 00:07:50
I mean, I see that the Office uses are starting to kind of morph into. 00:07:53
More flexible type of, I mean whatever we want to call it these they flex uses or. 00:07:59
And I'm more, I'm leaning in that as far as allowing more of that. 00:08:05
As long as it doesn't have an impact that we can really measure. 00:08:12
And maybe I'm by myself on this, but I am trying to make or I'm trying to help. 00:08:17
In these considerations that. 00:08:23
Obviously, we're not considering everything like Paul was saying that, you know, there will always be something that's an outlier 00:08:26
that will go well. We probably should have thought about that when we approved this, but. 00:08:32
I'm more of the thing that we're leaning towards allowing these to be used whereas, you know, in the past or since COVID offices 00:08:40
have been vacant to a large extent and. 00:08:45
I'll be quiet now. 00:08:53
I was discussing with the Commissioner Roche how it can be costly to convert some commercial spaces into residential spaces, so 00:08:56
being able to have a short term rental type of use might offset some of that economic cost that would would enable some 00:09:04
residential use. A lot of times too, with your short term rentals, people end up staying there for longer. 00:09:12
Where it's above an office space, you may have somebody who wants to. 00:09:21
Live above and use an office space below or kind of rent for a couple of weeks with an office and have some residential space. So 00:09:24
there are some benefits there. 00:09:29
But but the same concerns that Commissioner Cunningham has of, you know, what are the impacts of this? Is this kind of what is 00:09:36
intended in a larger picture? 00:09:41
Scope I think is worth considering to. 00:09:47
One guardrail that just kind of like playing the what if scenario and don't hate me and think I'm a terrible person because my 00:09:49
mind goes dark sometimes. But looking into the the crystal ball of like what could happen. Is there any kind of safeguard for a 00:09:57
conflict of interest with a short term rental in the same structure as a business. For example, if you have a kindergarten or. 00:10:05
A children's clinic, and then you have someone who's on a registered offender list. 00:10:15
Not allowed to be within such and such distance of children. Is that going to be a conflict, conflict if he's or they are 00:10:21
potentially looking at renting or is that something that is mitigated some other way? I would think that that is mitigated by if 00:10:29
you're, if you're on a registry list, there's going to be locations that you can't rent or you can't live. So if a, if a 00:10:36
educational purpose is already established in a building, then somebody who's on a registry can't rent in a vicinity of that. 00:10:43
Is there a way that that would be known to that? Like I'm again, just trying to think of the scenarios here. Is there a way that 00:10:51
that person would know that if it's just listed as a short term, I believe that those kinds of things are. 00:10:58
I don't know on short term rentals because it's the same person in this specific case could go and rent A room at the hotel next 00:11:05
door. Is that going to be any different than? 00:11:10
A short term rental in the same building? I mean I just hotel, different structure. Children's Hospital. Literally down the stairs 00:11:17
from where I'm staying in my room. 00:11:22
Right. Like that's just again. 00:11:27
What if scenarios, right? Just that's one that pops into mind. But I mean outside that's a really good. 00:11:31
Conversation to have. Because they're conditional, you'll be considering them. A Planning Commission will be considering them 00:11:37
separately. 00:11:41
You'd have the time to take a look at what building that it's going to be proposed in, and what other uses are already there. 00:11:46
The problem you have is a chicken before the egg type situation. You know what's already there before you put the short term 00:11:52
rental, but what happens after that? 00:11:56
One question, sorry, go ahead. My, my question is sort of lingering from last time, which is how does this interact with holidays 00:12:04
desire to increase moderate income housing. So short term rentals can often be in conflict with that in some places. I don't know 00:12:10
what our balance is in terms of are they, if we didn't approve this, would they do a long term moderate income rental because 00:12:16
they're small and they're on a big Rd. 00:12:22
And it would be affordable for someone who could otherwise not rent here. 00:12:29
From my point of view, it's a dread conflict. Short term rentals are already the lowest hanging fruit for a landline. 00:12:33
To lease out quickly. 00:12:40
And very expensively rather than the long term lease every single time. So the question that I had that there's nothing that 00:12:42
permits this. 00:12:46
Landowner from renting long term to somebody. 00:12:52
So they could use it, They're just trying to do the short term to make a little bit more money. 00:12:56
Off of the unit. 00:13:02
So really, I mean, they could go ahead and rent out to somebody because I looked at kind of the timeline of the general plan and 00:13:03
making them wait, you know, while the general plan is talking. 00:13:09
About reviewed and put together again. 00:13:14
But the factor means that they still can rent that out and still have an income coming in. 00:13:18
While they wait and while we address this in there. 00:13:25
Because to me, that's a big argument in favor of saying let's not do that because Holiday is trying to in a bunch of other ways, 00:13:30
trying to increase moderate income. Let's let's not make it so that. 00:13:36
That these owners can switch from what would reasonably be longer term rentals to short term rental. I don't think that makes 00:13:43
sense. And in fact, I think maybe in the general plan name, general planning in the future, I don't know if we would consider 00:13:51
making it so you couldn't rent short-term in RM, you know, moving it back instead of pushing it forward. Because if we want, if we 00:13:58
want people to be able to live in a holiday for reasonable price, then I think we make it harder to do. 00:14:06
Rentals not easier. 00:14:13
It's a double edged sword because you do also want to provide locations for these uses to play out. 00:14:15
So they're not the neighborhoods to be detached single family neighborhoods. 00:14:21
To have them. 00:14:25
If that makes sense. So I think what I think Carrie has put in her staff report to maybe consider a percentage of the units that 00:14:27
you have in the building is maxed or capped. 00:14:33
For the number of uses that can be open to short term opportunities. The rest obviously would have to be a long term rate. 00:14:39
Who benefits from that other than the property owner? 00:14:48
It can be beneficial in other ways. So when we had our last rezone application and where they're specifically looking at workforce 00:14:53
housing, a way to offset that workforce housing is with market rate housing. If you can then do short term rental, which is a 00:14:59
higher market rate than what your standard market rate housing would be, then you can have more units that can go to workforce 00:15:06
housing or moderate income housing. 00:15:13
Compared to your, it's just a balance of ratios, right? 00:15:21
So if you have a higher market rate here, you may only need 2 short term rental units. 00:15:24
And then have more workforce units, judging by how many units you can fit within a building within a project, you can, you can 00:15:30
change your ratios if you have a higher market rate. So that's a that's a potential benefit. 00:15:37
That only work if they have multiple excuse me, I mean maybe more than 3 units right? Because it would either be 3050% if you have 00:15:44
two. 00:15:48
Or 33%, I mean. 00:15:53
So it seems like if you're a big entity, doing a percentage could work. If you're small, that might. 00:15:55
Just not help. That's interesting. 00:16:01
Did we have, I know there was a discussion I had with Carrie earlier about tax. Did we figure out how that? 00:16:06
Compared as far as losing the commercial tax and gaining the short term rental tax, was that pretty much apples to apples or was 00:16:15
there a net loss or gain in doing one versus the other? This is from the most recent budget. So goes through funding sources with 00:16:23
taxes, property taxes general 16%. 00:16:32
And sales tax, you're going to have various things that in the PO zone, there's not any sales tax because it's not retail. So 00:16:40
you'll just be property tax. And then at the bottom there you can see the transient room tax, which is 35.7%. 00:16:48
So there's there is a higher tax rate from having that transient room service that benefits the city. 00:16:58
So there would be more income as long as the units were occupied. 00:17:04
At all basically. 00:17:09
OK. 00:17:11
So then when you're renting for a higher rate, the city is getting a larger portion of that as well. 00:17:14
And that's a common issue with people who are doing short term rentals in neighborhoods. They don't have that since it's not a 00:17:20
permitted use by cities. 00:17:24
They're operating those illegally and then the city is also not getting that tax benefit from that transient rate. 00:17:30
So this the applicant doing this in Broadview daylight is a financial benefit if it was to get the positive recommendation and 00:17:42
move forward. 00:17:47
Because we all know how budgets work. 00:17:57
We would lose probably 1 moderate income housing rental unit. 00:18:05
I wish I could be excited about doing something. 00:18:10
But this guy is. 00:18:13
I mean, he changed his own and he didn't like what he got and now he wants to change what he got and I. 00:18:16
I'm just not feeling inclined to do anything. 00:18:23
To help, because that's just. 00:18:28
Feels like a waste of our time. 00:18:33
Aaron was. I'm not supposed to say that out loud. 00:18:36
But I'm not sure he knew what. 00:18:39
What he was asking for. 00:18:42
Well, is that our fault? Well. 00:18:44
There, there was number. The other thing was is there was no way he was going to get both of the things he wanted out of that 00:18:47
though, right? He couldn't get short term rentals and the office space and the living unit under any zone that we currently have. 00:18:53
So I remember because I asked, I asked specifically on this like this guy wanted C1 instead of C2, even though C2 was all around 00:18:59
him. And I felt like that lined with general plan. Why are we doing it differently? But this still wouldn't have been allowed if 00:19:05
he had. 00:19:11
That C2 instead of C1 zone and he'd still be coming back before us saying, hey, I want to put a BMB up here. I'm afraid he's going 00:19:17
to show up and ask we accommodate him. He's going to come back and come ask for something else. But in the meantime, I will say, 00:19:23
John, I'm going to die of heat stroke. Could we turn on the air conditioner? It is a little warm, which may have something to do 00:19:30
with the fact that I just preserving tax dollars, right? 00:19:36
So if the AC is on by the time he gets here, you might turn the AC on or it's going down. 00:19:42
You know The thing is. 00:19:47
What's the big deal? Why doesn't he just rent out the other unit? 00:19:51
Why does it have to be short term? 00:19:54
Well, I think from what I read in there. 00:19:58
Like application where is that the short term because it is smaller unit. 00:20:01
It would be easier to rent it out on that basis than like a long time is what he put in the application, which makes some sense. 00:20:07
You don't fit to a small place, you know? 00:20:13
Rent it out to skiers that come. I think that this is something that's going to come up more with the Olympics coming too. There's 00:20:20
going to be a lot of people. 00:20:24
That are all the sudden going to hop on the short term rental wagon. They just won't come to Planning Commission first, right? 00:20:28
Yeah, they'll just do it on their own. 00:20:33
Period. 00:20:42
You know, as been brought up as offices are closing and uses are changing. It's something that you know the the staff is 00:20:43
recommended and and Paul, you know, brought up. 00:20:49
That going about this through the general plan is probably the way to go, not just making a concession because somebody wants to 00:20:56
rent out as a retirement. I mean, this is. 00:21:03
Their retirement property. 00:21:10
We probably should. 00:21:13
Have it go through the right channels well. 00:21:15
I mean, and I'll be honest, for me like this one property this particular. 00:21:20
Applicants address. Why not? He's got a hotel across the way. Like he's literally around the corner. It's right off the freeway. 00:21:26
This is not some cute moderate income family's gonna move in there with their two kids and need a playground in the backyard. 00:21:33
Like, you know, when we talk about what's ideal like AB and B, makes perfect sense right there. My concern is more along the lines 00:21:41
of does it make sense as a text code amendment to allow all of those in the PO zone to start doing it? 00:21:48
That process or is that part of it makes sense more in the general plan. And if this guy wants to do it through just a regular 00:21:56
conditional use just for his property exclusively, I'm not saying that's something I'd be opposed to, right? 00:22:03
So, but I don't know how much extra work that creates for the applicant or for Kerry. Is that something that we can even do? Like 00:22:11
could he do just a conditional use for just his location to do it as opposed to the text amendment? No, because it's since it's 00:22:19
not in the table of allowed uses, it's not allowed at all, not even an option. So it's a non starter for it. 00:22:26
Maybe he could rent out his pool at the same time. How did that turn out, by the way? 00:22:37
What I do tell? 00:22:44
People when they want to do something short term, because we have people who come in and ask about short term rentals all the 00:22:45
time. And I say you can do a furnished rental, you just have to rent it for 30 days or longer. And a lot of people can find an in 00:22:51
between with doing that of doing a 30 day rental furnished and it it works for them. 00:22:57
So I don't, I don't think that. 00:23:04
Not doing not doing a positive recommendation or doing a negative recommendation. It's there's other ways that he can still use 00:23:07
the property and be OK and largely for all of PO properties and RM properties as well, but. 00:23:15
That's why I asked the question. There's nothing that's stopping him from renting out property, just can't rent it out in the way 00:23:23
that he specifically wants to right now, right. And that might be a larger discussion about short term rentals and moving forward 00:23:30
from the general plan into code modification. So having that input from the community in general as to how do we want to manage 00:23:37
short term rentals. And Jonathan was the last discussion on that like 2012. 00:23:44
So being able to have that conversation again now that it's a little bit more prevalent and. 00:23:55
Seeing the tax benefits that it can provide, how do you want to manage that in the city or not at all? 00:24:02
So he could rent it out 30 days at a time? Yeah. 00:24:08
So. 00:24:12
We had before us not long ago the office building on Highland, and I want to say 43rd South, something like that, where it had 00:24:13
like, I don't know, 90 rooms inside this giant office building and they wanted to build another one or something like that. Am I 00:24:20
losing my mind? That was recent, right? That something like that was on the agenda if we were to, because that's APO now, I 00:24:26
believe. Didn't that get rezoned APO for that one? 00:24:33
What one was from the old carriage meeting house. Is that a condo plat? We were approving a change where they added an office 00:24:40
condo upstairs or something. Split one or? 00:24:46
Split the levels into ownership. 00:24:53
Right. So I mean, is that something where we're opening the door for a large structure like that to now have 25 short term rentals 00:24:56
running and operating out of it like a hotel, but instead it's done Airbnb so they don't have to have the Marriott name on the 00:25:02
side of it and all the regulations that go with that? 00:25:08
Right. And that's the. Yeah. 00:25:15
Because we don't have one, we don't have residential. 00:25:19
Caps necessarily in the PO zone, we just have residential uses as a conditional use. So residential uses would have to come to the 00:25:23
Planning Commission to be approved first of all and then it would have to come to the Planning Commission for short term rentals. 00:25:31
And that's where that recommendation if there is a positive recommendation that you would want to likely put a cap or percentage 00:25:38
on how many units could be short term and that's that's where I think that's. 00:25:46
Part of that larger conversation about how you, how the community in general wants to see short term rentals. 00:25:53
In the in the community. 00:26:03
I hate to say that some types of projects are unfeasible, especially around here. I've seen some dramatic things happen. 00:26:05
We found that converting office space to residential is extremely expensive. 00:26:13
As you're going from commercial building code to residential building code and taking interior workings and having to put 00:26:18
bathrooms and I. 00:26:23
And sinks, kitchens, all of that sort of facilities that you have to have for to meet residential building code into an existing 00:26:29
commercial space. 00:26:33
And I think that's an issue this applicant is even having with his application is trying to convert those upstairs spaces from an 00:26:40
existing commercial space and trying to meet the code differences where it's he's, I think he's been in the process on that for a 00:26:45
few months, so. 00:26:50
So they're not occupied currently. 00:27:00
I think it's occupied still as office space, but. 00:27:03
Not as a residential use, it's not right. So he had to wait for the conditional use to even permit the residential use and then 00:27:07
can apply for a building permit. And now he's working through that building permit process. 00:27:14
So delaying this is not as urgent. 00:27:23
As well. 00:27:26
Well, OK. 00:27:31
I think we'll, we'll, we'll see if the applicant has anything additional to offer. We'll have I'm sure some discussion and then. 00:27:33
Land on a motion, I suppose that best fits for the scenario here. The only other item we had on there was the the minutes for the 00:27:42
the meeting. I don't know if we're out of order if we just talk about those so we can just approve them at that time. Is that OK? 00:27:47
Green light? Anyone have anything on the I got a thumbs up. Does anybody have anything on the minutes they saw needed correction 00:27:53
or question? 00:27:58
Everybody's good on that. All right, well, that'll be a real quick motion then. 00:28:07
So. 00:28:11
At this point, unless there's anything else to discuss on this item, I don't know if the applicant is going to be here or not, but 00:28:13
we can take a, we'll close the work meeting and take a a one minute pause here while we wait and see what's going to happen and 00:28:18
then we'll roll right in. 00:28:22
Did you put your? 00:28:49
Did she? Did the poor lady withdraw? 00:29:14
I was just giving Dennis the 32nd version of it. 00:29:24
Because, you know, I was looking at the ocean. 00:29:29
Do you want to mention that? 00:29:35
What's that? I want to run up the ocean. I'll rent out the condo I stayed in again, that's for sure. 00:29:37
Where were you, Lincoln City? 00:29:43
So we're just in Oregon? 00:29:46
Kind of straight out from Medford. 00:29:50
It was a condo. 00:29:56
I'm gonna guess it was, but I don't care. Like they charged a lot of taxes. 00:29:58
As they come in, so we can set parameters. 00:30:05
About the individual criteria, I think, I think we drove all the way out of proportion. 00:30:10
It doesn't make that much difference. The city doesn't. 00:30:21
Probably more illegal. 00:30:26
Than legal as. 00:30:29
I mean because Airbnb. 00:30:32
Those have been. 00:30:36
Though it didn't rain once the firestorm and short term rentals and I think the city is trying to get ahead of light enough to 00:30:38
monitor 59 high of like 60. 00:30:44
The next couple years. 00:30:52
This isn't This isn't going to make that big of a difference. 00:30:55
I mean, we can send it to council and deny it or approve it. 00:31:00
This is one of those items. 00:31:05
Period. 00:31:09
I would never bring a text amendment based on somebody wanting to modify their own specific property. 00:31:12
I would always say the city will do a text amendment. 00:31:25
Based on this, and the city does the research on the impact. 00:31:29
Given to the Commission so they understand what they're measuring. 00:31:35
Because I think we're blaming this guy for this. 00:31:40
I just think that's kind of. 00:31:45
Is based on his property. This makes perfect sense. Like Dennis, and it's just that. 00:31:49
I guess I'm just up in the night. 00:31:57
I was looking at, I just look at what's happened in the past and what's going to happen in the future. This is not a big deal. 00:32:03
It's going to send us somewhere with no bugs and no heat, you know? 00:32:13
That's why I'm sitting over here. 00:32:17
I'm the left, I'm on the left. 00:32:21
This is the liberal part of the Commission, I guess. 00:32:26
I wouldn't miss it long, but I didn't have to come back once. 00:32:31
All right, we should we jump right in and get going here. It doesn't. 00:32:40
Look like we got. 00:32:45
All right, good evening. Welcome to the Holiday Planning Commission. 00:32:56
Meeting August 20th, 2024. We have all commissioners, City staff and council with us this evening. We have two items on the 00:33:00
agenda. We have a continued item. 00:33:06
And then the approval of meeting minutes for two meetings. And with that, I don't see any members of the public here for reading 00:33:13
the opening statement, so we'll just jump right in. And if city staff wants to give us the. 00:33:21
Summary. 00:33:30
We'll see if this is done. Yep, all right. Figured I'd be official and come up to. 00:33:40
Stand here. So the first item on our agenda is and I guess the only item beyond minutes is the proposed ordinance amendment to 00:33:45
conditionally allowing short term rentals in the PO zone. This is a continued item from our last meeting in July. 00:33:56
There were some questions about how many properties that this would affect. 00:34:09
So expanding this to the PO zone would. 00:34:14
Affect 8 properties. We have 8 properties that are currently zoned as PO. All of these are serving as office spaces, so commercial 00:34:18
in nature but without a retail component. There are medical, dental. 00:34:26
Losses a variety of just Office uses. 00:34:35
The RM zone is a zone that was under Salt Lake County had both uses of professional offices and. 00:34:38
Multi family uses all in one zone so that there are a lot of professional offices that are still zoned as RM that have the 00:34:49
potential to be zoned as PO. So those are detailed in the staff report. There's 39 properties that are used as office spaces. 00:34:56
Those could be resolved PO and then would have that same expansion of the short term rental right extended to them. So they 00:35:03
already have that right under the RM zone. 00:35:11
It would be expanded into PO if that received a favorable recommendation. 00:35:18
So that's the breakdown of the different properties, how many that would affect. All of these properties are on 80 foot wide right 00:35:24
of ways predominantly Highland, Dr. Murray Holiday Rd. a few on 39th and a few on 45th and Holiday Blvd. So those are all detailed 00:35:31
on there there's. 00:35:38
Some support in the general plan for each of those between the Highland Dr. Master plan that supports more commercial uses. When 00:35:46
you're looking at short term rentals, they are a somewhat commercial use, a little bit different than what your standard 00:35:53
commercial use would be with the daily or daytime use. Hotels are allowed in the Ord zone and the Ord zone also has short term 00:36:01
rental allowed in it. 00:36:08
Staff recommendation on this one is. 00:36:16
Umm to have City Council or to postpone the discussion around a short term rental to the general plan. So you can forward a 00:36:19
negative recommendation to City Council on this application with a recommendation to look at short term rental use in more zones 00:36:27
and specifically the PO zone at the time when the general plan is discussed in the next year. 00:36:36
And I think that was all. 00:36:47
Of the questions that the Commission had from last time as to why it was continued, the applicant, it doesn't look like it's here 00:36:50
today, but his narrative is in the application of what he kind of envisions with the use of of the property. Is there any 00:36:56
questions for staff? 00:37:02
I guess we've hammered you enough tonight. Great. 00:37:11
All right. And this was a continued public hearing or public meeting. Excuse me and I. 00:37:14
With the no members of the public here, I think we're OK to go ahead and close that and we will move to Planning Commission 00:37:22
discussion on this. I know there was quite a bit of discussion in the work meeting and I think we're just kind of landing now on. 00:37:29
Take a pulse from everybody on kind of how they're feeling as far as the recommendation goes for City Council on this. I'll start 00:37:38
down here. Commissioner Cunningham, are you feeling a more positive or negative recommendation? 00:37:46
There's nothing urgent that needs to be resolved here, Mr. Vilcinski. 00:37:54
I agree with with Paul. I also feel like this needs to be a general plan. 00:38:01
Conversation. 00:38:07
Commissioner Fun Zane, Commissioner, Friends, same. That's the bulk majority, but Commissioner Gong or Commissioner Barrett, do 00:38:09
you have any conflicting thoughts with that? I just think we should move this forward so. 00:38:15
It's not going to make any difference going to the general plan discussion. 00:38:22
OK. 00:38:28
All right. 00:38:31
But we've got Commissioner Gong. Any other? 00:38:33
I just am trying to dance in my head. 00:38:37
RM versus PO feels like those are so similar property. I mean rezoned a lot of them. So that feels like that's not. 00:38:40
So I'm not sure. 00:39:09
Sort of a defense or I could see that. 00:39:12
This would be bigger discussion, but the actual impact right now there are any properties that can currently do this with a 00:39:15
potential 39 that could move over. 00:39:19
OK. A definite maybe consideration on that one. Got it. All right. 00:39:28
And chair feels like this, I'm kind of in your boat, like I can see some upside to it. But at the same time, I feel like a more 00:39:36
thorough vetting of it would make more sense rather than starting it and approving it now or making the recommendation to approve 00:39:43
it now. So with that being said, is there anyone that wants to make the recommendation at this time? Chair, just one, one final 00:39:50
comment is at least for me. So regardless of what what happens tonight, it will go to. 00:39:57
Council and then they'll make a decision, up or down vote on that. So just a recommendation. 00:40:04
I sorry, I didn't. I misspoke with approval. No, I just, I just reminding you because I was sitting there like, Oh yeah, let's go 00:40:10
to the City Council. 00:40:14
I'll be happy to make a motion. Wonderful. Commissioner Cunningham, go ahead. Mr. Cunningham. Motions to forward a negative 00:40:20
recommendation to the City Council to deny an application by Michael Alt to amend Title 13, Chapter 13.100, Appendix A of the City 00:40:28
of Holiday Land Use Code to add short term rentals as a conditional use in the allowed uses table based on the following findings. 00:40:37
One, public engagement opportunities associated with the 2025 General Plan update regarding specific land uses, including but not 00:40:46
limited to office, commercial, residential and short term rentals would allow greater input and direction as to what the larger 00:40:52
community envisions for various areas and uses within the holiday. 00:40:59
Two, the goals and policies of the General Plan are unclear as to where short term rentals and mixed-use zones would be 00:41:06
appropriate, and three, of the existing zoning code for the Professional Office Zone as established in 2018 did not carry short 00:41:13
term rental use over from the RM zone to the PO zone. 00:41:20
All right, we have a motion. Do we have a second? This is Commissioner Prince. I'll second. All right, and we'll start down here. 00:41:29
Commissioner Baron, Commissioner Gong. 00:41:33
Commission Prince aye, Commissioner Blunt, Commissioner and Commissioner Cunningham aye, and Chair Roach votes aye. So that is do 00:41:39
my math here, 6:00 to 1:00. 00:41:45
To make a negative recommendation. 00:41:52
And then the next item that we have on the agenda is the minutes. And as we discussed in the work meeting, there were no 00:41:54
recommendations, clarifications or adjustments needed on those. So we can do the all in favor say aye to approve the minutes for 00:42:02
both of those. Aye, aye. All right. And that's unanimous on both of those. And with that, I think that takes us to the close of 00:42:09
the meeting. Thank you very much everyone. And all in favor to adjourn say aye. 00:42:16
Aye, done and done. Have a good night. 00:42:23
So our next meeting is September 3rd. 00:42:25
OK. 00:42:29
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Good afternoon. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission work meeting. I believe we have all commissioners in attendance 00:00:00
and both members of city staff and legal counsel representing. So it's a full house and a party. We have just the one legislative 00:00:07
item today, and this is a continued item from the last meeting when I was not here. So I'm going to lean heavily on everybody else 00:00:15
that was to tell me what I missed and we'll just turn it right. 00:00:22
City staff to launch us in so we can have the Q&A and fun stuff out of the way. 00:00:30
OK, so on this one I highlighted the items that were added into the staff report. 00:00:36
Essentially, how many properties this change would affect? So there's eight properties that are currently zoned as PO. They're all 00:00:43
on 80 foot wide right of ways. 39 properties are zoned as RM. These properties already have the short term rental right associated 00:00:51
with being in the RM zone. So those could potentially rezone to PO because they're all being used as. 00:00:59
Office space so. 00:01:08
By allowing short term rentals conditionally in the PO zone, you're just moving that right from the room zone to the PO zone. So 00:01:11
that's the difference. I kept my recommendation the same, but there is some flexibility here. Commissioner Baron did talk about 00:01:18
last time. 00:01:24
Doing a positive recommendation to City Council and leaving it up to them as if they want to do it in the general plan or if they 00:01:33
wanted to make that change currently. So I'm kind of open to any discussion or questions on that. 00:01:40
I think the issue was that. 00:01:56
You know, this affects more than one property in one zone and that and I, my feeling remains that this is a great concept and 00:01:58
they're worthy of discussion when we do the general plan. But to spot zone, you know, to pick off PO and not deal with all the 00:02:06
others and not figure out what the overall rationale is. I'm I'm just nervous about doing that. And this was a case where the 00:02:13
applicant. 00:02:20
Made his own change to the zone and then didn't get what he wanted when he decided he wanted to do. I remember the request was to 00:02:28
have to to residential units and then it changed after he made the request and was granted that and that and so I I'm still of the 00:02:37
opinion that without the context of the whole general plan and how. 00:02:45
These units ought to be allowed across all of the zones in the city. 00:02:54
So I'm still in favor of not dealing with this. 00:03:00
Just to clarify, this is. 00:03:07
This is a text amendment. This is a text amendment for all the zoning. This is not a conditional use just for him, right, Right. 00:03:11
It's a conditional use for short term rentals being permitted or sorry, conditionally permitted in the PO zone. So right now it 00:03:18
does not, it's not a permitted conditional use. 00:03:25
In the PO zone, it is a conditional use in the RM zone, which many of these properties that are RM would convert to PO at some 00:03:33
point. But in the RM, if it's, is it a conditional use that would have to come before Planning Commission if this same text 00:03:40
amendment goes through with all future still in the PO go through that same process? 00:03:47
So really it's, it's not like we're green lighting short term rentals across the board to just nobody has any say or input on 00:03:55
them. They still have to go through the process. We're just extending it from the RM zone that it already has over to the PO zone 00:04:01
then, right, right. 00:04:06
OK, Chair, I would caution you on a conditional use is. 00:04:13
Not as conditional as you think, as you might think. So that's why I call it a permitted. You set up, you know certain regulations 00:04:19
that you have to jump through these hoops or meet these certain conditions. If they meet those conditions it has to be approved 00:04:25
kind of thing. That's so conditional uses used to be. 00:04:31
Very subjective and the courts over the years have. 00:04:39
Made them objective. 00:04:43
So if you have it a conditional use, you can set reasonable conditions, but if they meet those reasonable conditions, they get it. 00:04:45
But it still would fall in line with basically matching the room which already has those set conditions in place, right? Other 00:04:52
than this allows a PO, I should say differs with the RM as it allows certain office space to be used as where the RM doesn't, 00:05:01
right? So the PO zone kind of expanded office uses to include medical. 00:05:09
Educational uses? What else was in the PO zone that was added in? 00:05:19
Mostly medical, you know. 00:05:24
So it's just allowing the office space that already exists to be used for a wider range of professional services. 00:05:26
And then the PO zone has the residential use as a conditional use. So the applicant originally applied for changing to the PO zone 00:05:34
and then doing the so that he could expand his office uses in that zone and then. 00:05:43
Wanted to do the residential units above, so then the process within. Now being in the PO zone he needed to do the conditional use 00:05:53
for those residential spaces. 00:05:57
Two questions. So this really isn't a general plan item, is it? I mean, this is not what the general plan is meant to do to solve 00:06:04
specific zoning. 00:06:09
That's my first question and maybe that's too arbitrary of a question to answer. So the second one is this will be a conditional 00:06:17
use permit if we do approve it. So what are the criteria or the? 00:06:23
Measures by which they have to meet to get this approved. Have we thought about whether parking? I think that's probably one of 00:06:31
the ones you talked about last time. 00:06:36
Umm is there? 00:06:41
And so it will stay the same then as far as the use. 00:06:47
Zone, PO zone be added to these criteria. So originally this criteria only looked at room and R2. So now we're going to say RMR 2 00:06:51
and PO has to meet these criteria. So the Planning Commission has to approve it if they can show you that they meet all of these 00:07:00
elements. So in your experience, does this, has this been enough to do these and are you satisfied with the results? 00:07:08
From my point of view, yes. So considering this in the PO areas, to me they're all on major streets or on major arterials, which. 00:07:18
You probably wouldn't even know that somebody was staying there. 00:07:27
So I'm always looking at the impact of the neighborhood and in these cases I don't see that there is measurable or that was the 00:07:31
intent is to keep those uses on those major streets. 00:07:36
You had to be in an room zone, you had to be in R2, but you also had to be on a major Rd. 00:07:43
And these all are so that meets that criteria. 00:07:50
I mean, I see that the Office uses are starting to kind of morph into. 00:07:53
More flexible type of, I mean whatever we want to call it these they flex uses or. 00:07:59
And I'm more, I'm leaning in that as far as allowing more of that. 00:08:05
As long as it doesn't have an impact that we can really measure. 00:08:12
And maybe I'm by myself on this, but I am trying to make or I'm trying to help. 00:08:17
In these considerations that. 00:08:23
Obviously, we're not considering everything like Paul was saying that, you know, there will always be something that's an outlier 00:08:26
that will go well. We probably should have thought about that when we approved this, but. 00:08:32
I'm more of the thing that we're leaning towards allowing these to be used whereas, you know, in the past or since COVID offices 00:08:40
have been vacant to a large extent and. 00:08:45
I'll be quiet now. 00:08:53
I was discussing with the Commissioner Roche how it can be costly to convert some commercial spaces into residential spaces, so 00:08:56
being able to have a short term rental type of use might offset some of that economic cost that would would enable some 00:09:04
residential use. A lot of times too, with your short term rentals, people end up staying there for longer. 00:09:12
Where it's above an office space, you may have somebody who wants to. 00:09:21
Live above and use an office space below or kind of rent for a couple of weeks with an office and have some residential space. So 00:09:24
there are some benefits there. 00:09:29
But but the same concerns that Commissioner Cunningham has of, you know, what are the impacts of this? Is this kind of what is 00:09:36
intended in a larger picture? 00:09:41
Scope I think is worth considering to. 00:09:47
One guardrail that just kind of like playing the what if scenario and don't hate me and think I'm a terrible person because my 00:09:49
mind goes dark sometimes. But looking into the the crystal ball of like what could happen. Is there any kind of safeguard for a 00:09:57
conflict of interest with a short term rental in the same structure as a business. For example, if you have a kindergarten or. 00:10:05
A children's clinic, and then you have someone who's on a registered offender list. 00:10:15
Not allowed to be within such and such distance of children. Is that going to be a conflict, conflict if he's or they are 00:10:21
potentially looking at renting or is that something that is mitigated some other way? I would think that that is mitigated by if 00:10:29
you're, if you're on a registry list, there's going to be locations that you can't rent or you can't live. So if a, if a 00:10:36
educational purpose is already established in a building, then somebody who's on a registry can't rent in a vicinity of that. 00:10:43
Is there a way that that would be known to that? Like I'm again, just trying to think of the scenarios here. Is there a way that 00:10:51
that person would know that if it's just listed as a short term, I believe that those kinds of things are. 00:10:58
I don't know on short term rentals because it's the same person in this specific case could go and rent A room at the hotel next 00:11:05
door. Is that going to be any different than? 00:11:10
A short term rental in the same building? I mean I just hotel, different structure. Children's Hospital. Literally down the stairs 00:11:17
from where I'm staying in my room. 00:11:22
Right. Like that's just again. 00:11:27
What if scenarios, right? Just that's one that pops into mind. But I mean outside that's a really good. 00:11:31
Conversation to have. Because they're conditional, you'll be considering them. A Planning Commission will be considering them 00:11:37
separately. 00:11:41
You'd have the time to take a look at what building that it's going to be proposed in, and what other uses are already there. 00:11:46
The problem you have is a chicken before the egg type situation. You know what's already there before you put the short term 00:11:52
rental, but what happens after that? 00:11:56
One question, sorry, go ahead. My, my question is sort of lingering from last time, which is how does this interact with holidays 00:12:04
desire to increase moderate income housing. So short term rentals can often be in conflict with that in some places. I don't know 00:12:10
what our balance is in terms of are they, if we didn't approve this, would they do a long term moderate income rental because 00:12:16
they're small and they're on a big Rd. 00:12:22
And it would be affordable for someone who could otherwise not rent here. 00:12:29
From my point of view, it's a dread conflict. Short term rentals are already the lowest hanging fruit for a landline. 00:12:33
To lease out quickly. 00:12:40
And very expensively rather than the long term lease every single time. So the question that I had that there's nothing that 00:12:42
permits this. 00:12:46
Landowner from renting long term to somebody. 00:12:52
So they could use it, They're just trying to do the short term to make a little bit more money. 00:12:56
Off of the unit. 00:13:02
So really, I mean, they could go ahead and rent out to somebody because I looked at kind of the timeline of the general plan and 00:13:03
making them wait, you know, while the general plan is talking. 00:13:09
About reviewed and put together again. 00:13:14
But the factor means that they still can rent that out and still have an income coming in. 00:13:18
While they wait and while we address this in there. 00:13:25
Because to me, that's a big argument in favor of saying let's not do that because Holiday is trying to in a bunch of other ways, 00:13:30
trying to increase moderate income. Let's let's not make it so that. 00:13:36
That these owners can switch from what would reasonably be longer term rentals to short term rental. I don't think that makes 00:13:43
sense. And in fact, I think maybe in the general plan name, general planning in the future, I don't know if we would consider 00:13:51
making it so you couldn't rent short-term in RM, you know, moving it back instead of pushing it forward. Because if we want, if we 00:13:58
want people to be able to live in a holiday for reasonable price, then I think we make it harder to do. 00:14:06
Rentals not easier. 00:14:13
It's a double edged sword because you do also want to provide locations for these uses to play out. 00:14:15
So they're not the neighborhoods to be detached single family neighborhoods. 00:14:21
To have them. 00:14:25
If that makes sense. So I think what I think Carrie has put in her staff report to maybe consider a percentage of the units that 00:14:27
you have in the building is maxed or capped. 00:14:33
For the number of uses that can be open to short term opportunities. The rest obviously would have to be a long term rate. 00:14:39
Who benefits from that other than the property owner? 00:14:48
It can be beneficial in other ways. So when we had our last rezone application and where they're specifically looking at workforce 00:14:53
housing, a way to offset that workforce housing is with market rate housing. If you can then do short term rental, which is a 00:14:59
higher market rate than what your standard market rate housing would be, then you can have more units that can go to workforce 00:15:06
housing or moderate income housing. 00:15:13
Compared to your, it's just a balance of ratios, right? 00:15:21
So if you have a higher market rate here, you may only need 2 short term rental units. 00:15:24
And then have more workforce units, judging by how many units you can fit within a building within a project, you can, you can 00:15:30
change your ratios if you have a higher market rate. So that's a that's a potential benefit. 00:15:37
That only work if they have multiple excuse me, I mean maybe more than 3 units right? Because it would either be 3050% if you have 00:15:44
two. 00:15:48
Or 33%, I mean. 00:15:53
So it seems like if you're a big entity, doing a percentage could work. If you're small, that might. 00:15:55
Just not help. That's interesting. 00:16:01
Did we have, I know there was a discussion I had with Carrie earlier about tax. Did we figure out how that? 00:16:06
Compared as far as losing the commercial tax and gaining the short term rental tax, was that pretty much apples to apples or was 00:16:15
there a net loss or gain in doing one versus the other? This is from the most recent budget. So goes through funding sources with 00:16:23
taxes, property taxes general 16%. 00:16:32
And sales tax, you're going to have various things that in the PO zone, there's not any sales tax because it's not retail. So 00:16:40
you'll just be property tax. And then at the bottom there you can see the transient room tax, which is 35.7%. 00:16:48
So there's there is a higher tax rate from having that transient room service that benefits the city. 00:16:58
So there would be more income as long as the units were occupied. 00:17:04
At all basically. 00:17:09
OK. 00:17:11
So then when you're renting for a higher rate, the city is getting a larger portion of that as well. 00:17:14
And that's a common issue with people who are doing short term rentals in neighborhoods. They don't have that since it's not a 00:17:20
permitted use by cities. 00:17:24
They're operating those illegally and then the city is also not getting that tax benefit from that transient rate. 00:17:30
So this the applicant doing this in Broadview daylight is a financial benefit if it was to get the positive recommendation and 00:17:42
move forward. 00:17:47
Because we all know how budgets work. 00:17:57
We would lose probably 1 moderate income housing rental unit. 00:18:05
I wish I could be excited about doing something. 00:18:10
But this guy is. 00:18:13
I mean, he changed his own and he didn't like what he got and now he wants to change what he got and I. 00:18:16
I'm just not feeling inclined to do anything. 00:18:23
To help, because that's just. 00:18:28
Feels like a waste of our time. 00:18:33
Aaron was. I'm not supposed to say that out loud. 00:18:36
But I'm not sure he knew what. 00:18:39
What he was asking for. 00:18:42
Well, is that our fault? Well. 00:18:44
There, there was number. The other thing was is there was no way he was going to get both of the things he wanted out of that 00:18:47
though, right? He couldn't get short term rentals and the office space and the living unit under any zone that we currently have. 00:18:53
So I remember because I asked, I asked specifically on this like this guy wanted C1 instead of C2, even though C2 was all around 00:18:59
him. And I felt like that lined with general plan. Why are we doing it differently? But this still wouldn't have been allowed if 00:19:05
he had. 00:19:11
That C2 instead of C1 zone and he'd still be coming back before us saying, hey, I want to put a BMB up here. I'm afraid he's going 00:19:17
to show up and ask we accommodate him. He's going to come back and come ask for something else. But in the meantime, I will say, 00:19:23
John, I'm going to die of heat stroke. Could we turn on the air conditioner? It is a little warm, which may have something to do 00:19:30
with the fact that I just preserving tax dollars, right? 00:19:36
So if the AC is on by the time he gets here, you might turn the AC on or it's going down. 00:19:42
You know The thing is. 00:19:47
What's the big deal? Why doesn't he just rent out the other unit? 00:19:51
Why does it have to be short term? 00:19:54
Well, I think from what I read in there. 00:19:58
Like application where is that the short term because it is smaller unit. 00:20:01
It would be easier to rent it out on that basis than like a long time is what he put in the application, which makes some sense. 00:20:07
You don't fit to a small place, you know? 00:20:13
Rent it out to skiers that come. I think that this is something that's going to come up more with the Olympics coming too. There's 00:20:20
going to be a lot of people. 00:20:24
That are all the sudden going to hop on the short term rental wagon. They just won't come to Planning Commission first, right? 00:20:28
Yeah, they'll just do it on their own. 00:20:33
Period. 00:20:42
You know, as been brought up as offices are closing and uses are changing. It's something that you know the the staff is 00:20:43
recommended and and Paul, you know, brought up. 00:20:49
That going about this through the general plan is probably the way to go, not just making a concession because somebody wants to 00:20:56
rent out as a retirement. I mean, this is. 00:21:03
Their retirement property. 00:21:10
We probably should. 00:21:13
Have it go through the right channels well. 00:21:15
I mean, and I'll be honest, for me like this one property this particular. 00:21:20
Applicants address. Why not? He's got a hotel across the way. Like he's literally around the corner. It's right off the freeway. 00:21:26
This is not some cute moderate income family's gonna move in there with their two kids and need a playground in the backyard. 00:21:33
Like, you know, when we talk about what's ideal like AB and B, makes perfect sense right there. My concern is more along the lines 00:21:41
of does it make sense as a text code amendment to allow all of those in the PO zone to start doing it? 00:21:48
That process or is that part of it makes sense more in the general plan. And if this guy wants to do it through just a regular 00:21:56
conditional use just for his property exclusively, I'm not saying that's something I'd be opposed to, right? 00:22:03
So, but I don't know how much extra work that creates for the applicant or for Kerry. Is that something that we can even do? Like 00:22:11
could he do just a conditional use for just his location to do it as opposed to the text amendment? No, because it's since it's 00:22:19
not in the table of allowed uses, it's not allowed at all, not even an option. So it's a non starter for it. 00:22:26
Maybe he could rent out his pool at the same time. How did that turn out, by the way? 00:22:37
What I do tell? 00:22:44
People when they want to do something short term, because we have people who come in and ask about short term rentals all the 00:22:45
time. And I say you can do a furnished rental, you just have to rent it for 30 days or longer. And a lot of people can find an in 00:22:51
between with doing that of doing a 30 day rental furnished and it it works for them. 00:22:57
So I don't, I don't think that. 00:23:04
Not doing not doing a positive recommendation or doing a negative recommendation. It's there's other ways that he can still use 00:23:07
the property and be OK and largely for all of PO properties and RM properties as well, but. 00:23:15
That's why I asked the question. There's nothing that's stopping him from renting out property, just can't rent it out in the way 00:23:23
that he specifically wants to right now, right. And that might be a larger discussion about short term rentals and moving forward 00:23:30
from the general plan into code modification. So having that input from the community in general as to how do we want to manage 00:23:37
short term rentals. And Jonathan was the last discussion on that like 2012. 00:23:44
So being able to have that conversation again now that it's a little bit more prevalent and. 00:23:55
Seeing the tax benefits that it can provide, how do you want to manage that in the city or not at all? 00:24:02
So he could rent it out 30 days at a time? Yeah. 00:24:08
So. 00:24:12
We had before us not long ago the office building on Highland, and I want to say 43rd South, something like that, where it had 00:24:13
like, I don't know, 90 rooms inside this giant office building and they wanted to build another one or something like that. Am I 00:24:20
losing my mind? That was recent, right? That something like that was on the agenda if we were to, because that's APO now, I 00:24:26
believe. Didn't that get rezoned APO for that one? 00:24:33
What one was from the old carriage meeting house. Is that a condo plat? We were approving a change where they added an office 00:24:40
condo upstairs or something. Split one or? 00:24:46
Split the levels into ownership. 00:24:53
Right. So I mean, is that something where we're opening the door for a large structure like that to now have 25 short term rentals 00:24:56
running and operating out of it like a hotel, but instead it's done Airbnb so they don't have to have the Marriott name on the 00:25:02
side of it and all the regulations that go with that? 00:25:08
Right. And that's the. Yeah. 00:25:15
Because we don't have one, we don't have residential. 00:25:19
Caps necessarily in the PO zone, we just have residential uses as a conditional use. So residential uses would have to come to the 00:25:23
Planning Commission to be approved first of all and then it would have to come to the Planning Commission for short term rentals. 00:25:31
And that's where that recommendation if there is a positive recommendation that you would want to likely put a cap or percentage 00:25:38
on how many units could be short term and that's that's where I think that's. 00:25:46
Part of that larger conversation about how you, how the community in general wants to see short term rentals. 00:25:53
In the in the community. 00:26:03
I hate to say that some types of projects are unfeasible, especially around here. I've seen some dramatic things happen. 00:26:05
We found that converting office space to residential is extremely expensive. 00:26:13
As you're going from commercial building code to residential building code and taking interior workings and having to put 00:26:18
bathrooms and I. 00:26:23
And sinks, kitchens, all of that sort of facilities that you have to have for to meet residential building code into an existing 00:26:29
commercial space. 00:26:33
And I think that's an issue this applicant is even having with his application is trying to convert those upstairs spaces from an 00:26:40
existing commercial space and trying to meet the code differences where it's he's, I think he's been in the process on that for a 00:26:45
few months, so. 00:26:50
So they're not occupied currently. 00:27:00
I think it's occupied still as office space, but. 00:27:03
Not as a residential use, it's not right. So he had to wait for the conditional use to even permit the residential use and then 00:27:07
can apply for a building permit. And now he's working through that building permit process. 00:27:14
So delaying this is not as urgent. 00:27:23
As well. 00:27:26
Well, OK. 00:27:31
I think we'll, we'll, we'll see if the applicant has anything additional to offer. We'll have I'm sure some discussion and then. 00:27:33
Land on a motion, I suppose that best fits for the scenario here. The only other item we had on there was the the minutes for the 00:27:42
the meeting. I don't know if we're out of order if we just talk about those so we can just approve them at that time. Is that OK? 00:27:47
Green light? Anyone have anything on the I got a thumbs up. Does anybody have anything on the minutes they saw needed correction 00:27:53
or question? 00:27:58
Everybody's good on that. All right, well, that'll be a real quick motion then. 00:28:07
So. 00:28:11
At this point, unless there's anything else to discuss on this item, I don't know if the applicant is going to be here or not, but 00:28:13
we can take a, we'll close the work meeting and take a a one minute pause here while we wait and see what's going to happen and 00:28:18
then we'll roll right in. 00:28:22
Did you put your? 00:28:49
Did she? Did the poor lady withdraw? 00:29:14
I was just giving Dennis the 32nd version of it. 00:29:24
Because, you know, I was looking at the ocean. 00:29:29
Do you want to mention that? 00:29:35
What's that? I want to run up the ocean. I'll rent out the condo I stayed in again, that's for sure. 00:29:37
Where were you, Lincoln City? 00:29:43
So we're just in Oregon? 00:29:46
Kind of straight out from Medford. 00:29:50
It was a condo. 00:29:56
I'm gonna guess it was, but I don't care. Like they charged a lot of taxes. 00:29:58
As they come in, so we can set parameters. 00:30:05
About the individual criteria, I think, I think we drove all the way out of proportion. 00:30:10
It doesn't make that much difference. The city doesn't. 00:30:21
Probably more illegal. 00:30:26
Than legal as. 00:30:29
I mean because Airbnb. 00:30:32
Those have been. 00:30:36
Though it didn't rain once the firestorm and short term rentals and I think the city is trying to get ahead of light enough to 00:30:38
monitor 59 high of like 60. 00:30:44
The next couple years. 00:30:52
This isn't This isn't going to make that big of a difference. 00:30:55
I mean, we can send it to council and deny it or approve it. 00:31:00
This is one of those items. 00:31:05
Period. 00:31:09
I would never bring a text amendment based on somebody wanting to modify their own specific property. 00:31:12
I would always say the city will do a text amendment. 00:31:25
Based on this, and the city does the research on the impact. 00:31:29
Given to the Commission so they understand what they're measuring. 00:31:35
Because I think we're blaming this guy for this. 00:31:40
I just think that's kind of. 00:31:45
Is based on his property. This makes perfect sense. Like Dennis, and it's just that. 00:31:49
I guess I'm just up in the night. 00:31:57
I was looking at, I just look at what's happened in the past and what's going to happen in the future. This is not a big deal. 00:32:03
It's going to send us somewhere with no bugs and no heat, you know? 00:32:13
That's why I'm sitting over here. 00:32:17
I'm the left, I'm on the left. 00:32:21
This is the liberal part of the Commission, I guess. 00:32:26
I wouldn't miss it long, but I didn't have to come back once. 00:32:31
All right, we should we jump right in and get going here. It doesn't. 00:32:40
Look like we got. 00:32:45
All right, good evening. Welcome to the Holiday Planning Commission. 00:32:56
Meeting August 20th, 2024. We have all commissioners, City staff and council with us this evening. We have two items on the 00:33:00
agenda. We have a continued item. 00:33:06
And then the approval of meeting minutes for two meetings. And with that, I don't see any members of the public here for reading 00:33:13
the opening statement, so we'll just jump right in. And if city staff wants to give us the. 00:33:21
Summary. 00:33:30
We'll see if this is done. Yep, all right. Figured I'd be official and come up to. 00:33:40
Stand here. So the first item on our agenda is and I guess the only item beyond minutes is the proposed ordinance amendment to 00:33:45
conditionally allowing short term rentals in the PO zone. This is a continued item from our last meeting in July. 00:33:56
There were some questions about how many properties that this would affect. 00:34:09
So expanding this to the PO zone would. 00:34:14
Affect 8 properties. We have 8 properties that are currently zoned as PO. All of these are serving as office spaces, so commercial 00:34:18
in nature but without a retail component. There are medical, dental. 00:34:26
Losses a variety of just Office uses. 00:34:35
The RM zone is a zone that was under Salt Lake County had both uses of professional offices and. 00:34:38
Multi family uses all in one zone so that there are a lot of professional offices that are still zoned as RM that have the 00:34:49
potential to be zoned as PO. So those are detailed in the staff report. There's 39 properties that are used as office spaces. 00:34:56
Those could be resolved PO and then would have that same expansion of the short term rental right extended to them. So they 00:35:03
already have that right under the RM zone. 00:35:11
It would be expanded into PO if that received a favorable recommendation. 00:35:18
So that's the breakdown of the different properties, how many that would affect. All of these properties are on 80 foot wide right 00:35:24
of ways predominantly Highland, Dr. Murray Holiday Rd. a few on 39th and a few on 45th and Holiday Blvd. So those are all detailed 00:35:31
on there there's. 00:35:38
Some support in the general plan for each of those between the Highland Dr. Master plan that supports more commercial uses. When 00:35:46
you're looking at short term rentals, they are a somewhat commercial use, a little bit different than what your standard 00:35:53
commercial use would be with the daily or daytime use. Hotels are allowed in the Ord zone and the Ord zone also has short term 00:36:01
rental allowed in it. 00:36:08
Staff recommendation on this one is. 00:36:16
Umm to have City Council or to postpone the discussion around a short term rental to the general plan. So you can forward a 00:36:19
negative recommendation to City Council on this application with a recommendation to look at short term rental use in more zones 00:36:27
and specifically the PO zone at the time when the general plan is discussed in the next year. 00:36:36
And I think that was all. 00:36:47
Of the questions that the Commission had from last time as to why it was continued, the applicant, it doesn't look like it's here 00:36:50
today, but his narrative is in the application of what he kind of envisions with the use of of the property. Is there any 00:36:56
questions for staff? 00:37:02
I guess we've hammered you enough tonight. Great. 00:37:11
All right. And this was a continued public hearing or public meeting. Excuse me and I. 00:37:14
With the no members of the public here, I think we're OK to go ahead and close that and we will move to Planning Commission 00:37:22
discussion on this. I know there was quite a bit of discussion in the work meeting and I think we're just kind of landing now on. 00:37:29
Take a pulse from everybody on kind of how they're feeling as far as the recommendation goes for City Council on this. I'll start 00:37:38
down here. Commissioner Cunningham, are you feeling a more positive or negative recommendation? 00:37:46
There's nothing urgent that needs to be resolved here, Mr. Vilcinski. 00:37:54
I agree with with Paul. I also feel like this needs to be a general plan. 00:38:01
Conversation. 00:38:07
Commissioner Fun Zane, Commissioner, Friends, same. That's the bulk majority, but Commissioner Gong or Commissioner Barrett, do 00:38:09
you have any conflicting thoughts with that? I just think we should move this forward so. 00:38:15
It's not going to make any difference going to the general plan discussion. 00:38:22
OK. 00:38:28
All right. 00:38:31
But we've got Commissioner Gong. Any other? 00:38:33
I just am trying to dance in my head. 00:38:37
RM versus PO feels like those are so similar property. I mean rezoned a lot of them. So that feels like that's not. 00:38:40
So I'm not sure. 00:39:09
Sort of a defense or I could see that. 00:39:12
This would be bigger discussion, but the actual impact right now there are any properties that can currently do this with a 00:39:15
potential 39 that could move over. 00:39:19
OK. A definite maybe consideration on that one. Got it. All right. 00:39:28
And chair feels like this, I'm kind of in your boat, like I can see some upside to it. But at the same time, I feel like a more 00:39:36
thorough vetting of it would make more sense rather than starting it and approving it now or making the recommendation to approve 00:39:43
it now. So with that being said, is there anyone that wants to make the recommendation at this time? Chair, just one, one final 00:39:50
comment is at least for me. So regardless of what what happens tonight, it will go to. 00:39:57
Council and then they'll make a decision, up or down vote on that. So just a recommendation. 00:40:04
I sorry, I didn't. I misspoke with approval. No, I just, I just reminding you because I was sitting there like, Oh yeah, let's go 00:40:10
to the City Council. 00:40:14
I'll be happy to make a motion. Wonderful. Commissioner Cunningham, go ahead. Mr. Cunningham. Motions to forward a negative 00:40:20
recommendation to the City Council to deny an application by Michael Alt to amend Title 13, Chapter 13.100, Appendix A of the City 00:40:28
of Holiday Land Use Code to add short term rentals as a conditional use in the allowed uses table based on the following findings. 00:40:37
One, public engagement opportunities associated with the 2025 General Plan update regarding specific land uses, including but not 00:40:46
limited to office, commercial, residential and short term rentals would allow greater input and direction as to what the larger 00:40:52
community envisions for various areas and uses within the holiday. 00:40:59
Two, the goals and policies of the General Plan are unclear as to where short term rentals and mixed-use zones would be 00:41:06
appropriate, and three, of the existing zoning code for the Professional Office Zone as established in 2018 did not carry short 00:41:13
term rental use over from the RM zone to the PO zone. 00:41:20
All right, we have a motion. Do we have a second? This is Commissioner Prince. I'll second. All right, and we'll start down here. 00:41:29
Commissioner Baron, Commissioner Gong. 00:41:33
Commission Prince aye, Commissioner Blunt, Commissioner and Commissioner Cunningham aye, and Chair Roach votes aye. So that is do 00:41:39
my math here, 6:00 to 1:00. 00:41:45
To make a negative recommendation. 00:41:52
And then the next item that we have on the agenda is the minutes. And as we discussed in the work meeting, there were no 00:41:54
recommendations, clarifications or adjustments needed on those. So we can do the all in favor say aye to approve the minutes for 00:42:02
both of those. Aye, aye. All right. And that's unanimous on both of those. And with that, I think that takes us to the close of 00:42:09
the meeting. Thank you very much everyone. And all in favor to adjourn say aye. 00:42:16
Aye, done and done. Have a good night. 00:42:23
So our next meeting is September 3rd. 00:42:25
OK. 00:42:29
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