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But 50 years? 00:00:01
Up on the hill, right? 00:00:03
Is that is that 50th session? 00:00:06
Combine or just. 00:00:10
Just doing the job you're doing now. It was 50 years as being a lobbyist. 00:00:13
My first session in 1975, I was a student at the. 00:00:19
Utah, it was in government. 00:00:25
And we had this crazy idea to put a student on the State Board of Regents. 00:00:27
And so, a student from Utah State, my exhibit and I had this. 00:00:31
Plan that we could do this. 00:00:36
And we got a sponsor. 00:00:38
I was. I was dating someone in the governor's office and that tells you how old. 00:00:41
And the staff there, who I knew very well because I was dating one of the assistants. 00:00:48
Said you can't get a pass. The president will never let you pass. 00:00:53
And lo and behold, we met real. 00:00:57
And so, which I thought was pretty cool. 00:00:59
And then that fall, Ted Wilson may rest in peace, was elected. 00:01:03
As mayor and Jessica Gross was elected as the city commissioner in Salt Lake and. 00:01:09
And I helped Jessica Ross's country. 00:01:13
I'm still a student and just hired me to be an assistant in his office. 00:01:16
And so as they were sitting around and that that, you know because I started in November, as they were sitting around in January, 00:01:20
they said. 00:01:23
But you've got experience of the legislature. You passed that bill last year. 00:01:27
So why don't you do it or something? 00:01:31
So I started doing my regular work and then doing a little bit of legislative work for Salt Lake in 1976. 00:01:33
That I stayed there until the 85. 00:01:39
Working with Salt Lake and then in 85 I went to the League of Cities and it was up to League of Cities from 85 until. 00:01:42
October of 2002. 00:01:50
And then the 20/20/03 session was the first one. 00:01:52
That I was doing cash. 00:01:57
50 years. 00:02:00
Oh yeah. 00:02:01
You know, 88 governors. 00:02:09
16. 00:02:13
16 speakers, 13 Senate presidents and 739 legislators later. 00:02:15
You're counting all that. 00:02:21
Doesn't work. 00:02:25
Very random. 00:02:28
Well, congratulations. 00:02:33
Thanks. And I guess, I guess I'm like one of those people on the tree community of the arts community where you serve here to 00:02:36
replace. 00:02:41
Right. 00:02:50
Thanks for having us. 00:02:53
Well, fabulous what we're looking forward to the, pardon me, the legislative update. 00:02:55
So what we'll do is. 00:03:01
Is, you know, we'll go through. 00:03:04
Oh yeah. Yeah, very much. 00:03:11
As we get started, we've put together a little bit of a presentation. 00:03:15
And first, let me just say how thrilled actually I heard. 00:03:18
You know, mayor's been great. We have, you know, we've not worked extensively with members of the City Council. 00:03:24
You know, but Mayor Sally's been great. Gina and Holly attractive to work with. 00:03:30
You know, I've known maps since almost college days. 00:03:35
And and I've known Stephanie for a lot of years too. So it's it's it's a great relationship and we hope we're doing our job for 00:03:39
you. So thank you very much. 00:03:43
But anyway, we've narrowed it down to just a number of bills I just want to talk about. 00:03:48
The first one we talked about this at our initial meeting, House Bill 12 was the RDA. 00:03:54
And this is, this is, this is totally impactful for holiday. 00:04:01
Because it deals with. 00:04:05
When funds? 00:04:08
You know when a project area ends. 00:04:10
We now have five years. 00:04:14
To spend any of any of the money that is generated from that project area. 00:04:16
That impacts us because we were still trying to collect some enough affordable housing money to do the. 00:04:20
The units that we need to do based on our contract with Salt Lake County and what we want to do. 00:04:27
So affect the beginning May 1. 00:04:32
The clock is ticking for 60 months on using that money. 00:04:36
You know and so you know there was there was discussion during the session to change that to three years. That didn't happen. 00:04:42
You know, but you know, Holiday was one of the one of the agencies that was audited a few years ago. 00:04:49
And the money sitting there, because it takes us a little bit more time. 00:04:55
You know. 00:05:00
Land is a little more expensive. You know, we're an infill city. 00:05:02
It's difficult, but anyway, so we've got five years to do that. 00:05:06
And and. 00:05:10
So there's that's that. 00:05:12
House Bill 35 was the Metro Township bill. 00:05:14
And you know, this is the bill that automatically made currents and magnet. 00:05:18
And all the townships, cities or towns based on their. 00:05:23
And this was this was year two of the. 00:05:27
Of the legislative action that affected UPD. 00:05:31
So the bill passed as we hoped it would. The bill passed in the form that we hoped it would. 00:05:36
And talk to the Chief Coil before our discussion here. 00:05:43
I guess all the locals are signed for UPD too. 00:05:48
And I think that's. 00:05:52
You know, and it's hopefully it'll turn out better than we anticipated. 00:05:55
And I think that will be terrific. 00:05:59
And it will be truly a municipal. 00:06:02
Police agency. 00:06:08
You know, with a number of municipalities, but it's municipal agencies. 00:06:10
And it's not a it's not a hybrid. I think that would be a good thing. 00:06:13
What's the? Can you explain what the difference between an actual Township of the city is? 00:06:17
Well, the Township of. 00:06:21
The biggest, the biggest piece is there. I mean there were some, I think it's that clear delineation you have the testing ability 00:06:25
because they were given all these different pieces over time. 00:06:28
So like White City is a. 00:06:33
So one this is based on the population. 00:06:38
Another bill passed it Complicated. 00:06:47
Because of the islands. But yeah, so content. 00:06:50
Right there are townships. No, they're not there in town. They'll all need to be a corporate will be in town because of their 00:06:53
population. 00:06:57
I don't know what immigration canyons population is. 00:07:02
You know, it could be a town or it could be a city, but based on your population, you're going to be a town or a city. There is no 00:07:06
more there. What taxing authority does the city have as opposed to a town? Do they cannot oppose a property tax? 00:07:13
No. A city can. A Township couldn't. A town can't. Yeah. 00:07:22
Because there are more towns in the state of Utah than those cities. 00:07:30
Think about that. And really the difference is the population threshold, whether it's. 00:07:34
I think it may be there are no more. 00:07:42
You can decide where to do, how to raise your property tax, I think. I think that's what it is. It's entirely more self governance 00:07:49
on the finance side. 00:07:55
An attack. 00:08:01
So why do you have the tail? Why even do you have a tail? It's just the population. Okay, they have all the. 00:08:04
Name but the new city towns in Salt Lake County that workout shift. 00:08:13
Just property tax authority, is that right? Well, that's a good question. I thought there was a three-year. 00:08:20
Trigger because they could. The sales tax has already been. Has already been. 00:08:27
Levied in those, not geographic areas. So you can't give them another sales tax, Sales tax authority only if you want to put a 00:08:33
build a hockey arena in Salt Lake City. 00:08:37
But I think it's a three-year transition. 00:08:44
Triggers were for the option. 00:08:51
Yeah, silly. 00:08:55
Continuing to exist as I understand it. 00:09:00
I don't know what the solution of that if it comes with. 00:09:04
I think that's. 00:09:08
So this is interesting. There's a general that general. What are they? What they call that the? 00:09:10
The Big Piece. 00:09:16
So the sales tax, yeah. 00:09:18
You know, that's already already been levied. So all the sales taxes I think have been levied. It could. 00:09:21
No, that's a good question. That's how that works. 00:09:31
Sorry. 00:09:36
But anyway, the next bill Hospital 84. 00:09:44
That I know. I know. Chief Weil is familiar with that school safety amendments, though. 00:09:47
And, you know, to make a long story, a very, very long story. 00:09:53
As concise as possible. 00:09:58
As of maybe what makes effect questions, the bill takes effect May 1st. 00:10:02
But none of the provisions will be hit by May 1st. 00:10:06
You know so that to me. 00:10:10
That's a real big problem. 00:10:12
I think if you're an attorney and something happens in a school after May 1st, can you remind us what that bill does? Yes, I'm 00:10:14
going to go through that. 00:10:18
The bill does a lot of things. 00:10:22
Every school, Every public. 00:10:24
And charter school. 00:10:27
Shall have either in. 00:10:29
A private security company. 00:10:32
Or an armed or an armed school guardian. 00:10:34
Well, school's in session. 00:10:38
And you sent me the answer to your question, but did the question you had before I thought Olympus. You have an SRO Olympus, 00:10:42
right? Olympus Junior. And you have one of the Olympus Junior, Junior and ******* Junior, but not anything at the elementary. 00:10:48
So you so right now, the High School and North Charters. 00:10:56
So right now in holiday. 00:11:00
You have the senior Olympus and the junior highs are covered. 00:11:02
Not an issue, except. 00:11:08
When that SRL leaves campus. 00:11:11
There needs to be a. 00:11:14
Whether it's an SRO or whether it's a school target yet, that's something that's new that we haven't had to do in the past. 00:11:16
So if the schools don't have Sros, it's not the city's responsibility for the school guard. 00:11:23
That's the school's response. 00:11:30
So there's not an extra cost to cities. 00:11:33
That extra cost is in these schools. 00:11:36
So that's so for the elementary school and the charter school that's on the school district now. 00:11:39
Chief Hoyle and his staff and his staff. 00:11:46
Can't help bet. 00:11:49
Who the Guardians are? 00:11:50
They can help train who to guard. How? The Guardians. 00:11:52
Deal with it. These are staff that are they are. They can't be teachers or the principal. 00:11:55
But they have to be, but they can be staffed. So you're looking at custodians, you're looking at bus drivers, you're looking at, 00:12:00
you're looking at school counselors, you're looking at. 00:12:05
So anybody that's staff that's not a teacher or. 00:12:12
There's nothing, there's nothing wrong with this picture. 00:12:16
No. OK. But anyway, you know, Chief Oil can help bet. 00:12:19
They can train, they'll work, he'll work with all the other, you know, with mass and all of the other municipal chiefs in the in 00:12:26
the county. 00:12:30
In order to do protocols and how everything seems to be responded to those sorts of things. So who makes the decision about 00:12:35
whether or not he gets to help that? The problem is that the school principal or the school district? 00:12:40
Provided training for these guardians as well. Yes, it's all in the statute, but one of the things we're working out is there's 00:12:46
conversation right now with Granite as well as just what happened on Police Department or this city served by Who's going to be 00:12:50
responsible for that? 00:12:54
It's. 00:13:00
As much as well meaning as the bill is as an administrative access. 00:13:04
Now saying all that, it's all well-intentioned and it will all workout in the long run. 00:13:09
You know in the Granite school district the one wrinkle is Granite is only school district has its own place. For example, you've 00:13:14
got Sros that get responsible for here West Valley. 00:13:19
All the West Valley schools are covered by the grant schools. 00:13:24
That, I thought, was on. 00:13:27
But you know, but anyway, it's going to be different in graph than it is in the other school districts. But all the city chiefs 00:13:29
will work together. 00:13:33
You know, and they'll do the vetting, they'll do things, training. 00:13:38
You know, but trying to find Guardians is going to be a problem. 00:13:42
And essentially you just can't find one because you have to have an armed security personnel there. 00:13:46
While the school is in session, so even if you have an SRO. 00:13:53
Chances are you're going to have to have a background. 00:13:58
You know, and I know, I know in some situations, if you have an active situation off campus and that SRO is the closest person to 00:14:02
respond, he or she typically would respond. 00:14:06
Now the management decision is do they? 00:14:12
Do they, you know, if there's a traffic accident on 2030 South side of the outside of Olympus boundaries? 00:14:17
And you have the SRO inside the building as he or she responded to traffic accident. 00:14:24
Is the first one, is the first one I'm. 00:14:30
That's a question that the chief Oil gets paid. 00:14:32
So that's the personnel issue. 00:14:38
On the school district side, they've got to have the person at the state responsible. All the school districts have to have 00:14:40
somebody responsible and they've got to have a second person, like a principal that's a security chief. So it really is an 00:14:45
administrative. 00:14:49
Well, the schools last. The schools pay for everything. 00:14:58
So they're going to have to raise taxes. 00:15:02
There for In all likelihood, yes. Well. 00:15:04
You're talking in granite school districts, hundreds of guardians for elementary schools. 00:15:09
Right. That's how they're trying to get around that cost. But who are these guardians? But they can't be a teacher or a principal 00:15:15
or I mean the administrator. They just can't be the principal or the teacher. And that takes some training too, right? They get 4 00:15:21
hours of training every year, forgetful weapons, an additional 4 hours for everything else that you probably want to candidate. 00:15:28
And my understanding is there's no funding for law enforcement to provide the training. 00:15:37
So that's there must have been. 00:15:42
This during the session. Well this bill was going to pass and the first two or three drafts the county sheriff's was doing. 00:15:47
Would be doing all the protocols and all the training. 00:15:58
Even though all the schools are in cities. 00:16:01
So we've got to have to get that changed. 00:16:03
There are a lot of things that we've got changed. The school still has the state, USB still has 7070 ish million from last year. 00:16:06
Getting 100 million issue. 00:16:15
So money is going to be there. 00:16:17
The guardians. The guardians will get $500 on top of their regular salary, so I stopped an overwhelming cost. But the problem is 00:16:19
how do you train? 00:16:24
Someone who you don't know who that person is until you start betting. 00:16:29
With weapons and law enforcement. 00:16:35
And expect them to do that. It's going to be difficult, but any of the other things here is just this is going to be a year after 00:16:38
year. 00:16:42
Modification and evolution process and so I think. 00:16:46
Understanding where the pitfalls are, what problems are in every single year, how do we go back to make it work and give it a 00:16:50
better solution? 00:16:53
There are some things in private schools. There are some things that private schools have to do because there's a whole data go 00:16:59
over the whole bill because there's a lot of different components. Some of the things that the overall plan you have to have 00:17:03
certain plans, but the SRO requirements and some of these other things have. 00:17:08
You know, it's another little interesting caveat is public schools have to have a new bullying, cyber bullying and hazing policy, 00:17:15
which is terrific. 00:17:19
And it spells out the statute, what it's supposed to be, and the parents of the bullied student. 00:17:23
Have the right to know what happened. 00:17:28
To be into the student who did the bullying. 00:17:30
That's not in the private school sector, but it's in the public school section. 00:17:32
You know, that's a good thing. 00:17:36
You know if your child is being bullied, you want to know what's happening. 00:17:38
But anyway, so those things are going to be going to evolve. 00:17:43
Other things in the bill. 00:17:47
Every school will have to have cameras. 00:17:49
And they have to be able to be connected to the Police Department in times of an emergency. 00:17:52
So there are most schools have cameras now. 00:18:00
But right now they're not connected to the first responders. 00:18:04
That's got to happen. 00:18:08
Secondly, schools have been built in the past. 00:18:10
That have that have that have made it difficult for public safety personnel through used radios inside the schools. 00:18:14
And they were exempt from the public safety radio requirement. 00:18:22
Not anymore. 00:18:28
So all the new schools will have to be retrofit. Will it be fit to have the radio communication which is important? 00:18:30
Now all the older schools will have to be retrofitted to make sure they can. They can. 00:18:39
Get to the public safety radio level. 00:18:43
Which is also important to push responses. 00:18:45
There is in Florida after after the. 00:18:49
Heartland shooting. They passed Alyssa's law. 00:18:54
Which essentially is a panic button in every classroom. 00:18:58
That's included in this filter. 00:19:04
So all of these things. 00:19:07
Radios the cameras being connected, First responders. 00:19:08
The panic buttons all by May 1st. 00:19:12
So you know that that's not going to happen. 00:19:16
You know and I think that was a mistake using that made for respectively, but that's. 00:19:20
But we'll see what happens. 00:19:26
All of our. 00:19:31
But this will be a bill. I forget this will be, this will be an area where they'll be, we'll see legislation in the next two or 00:19:35
three years. 00:19:38
We will be modified. 00:19:41
Broad stroke person. 00:19:44
So. 00:19:46
House Bill 488, Transportation Fund Modifications. 00:19:48
Provides 1.4 million to holiday. 00:19:52
1.23 million excuse me. 00:19:57
Employee 1.23 million The holiday. 00:20:00
For highland drive between Vanwinkle and Overlay. 00:20:04
That's that's part of the the. 00:20:07
The quarter of 1/4. 00:20:12
Quarter of the fourth quarter. 00:20:13
Who was the 488 HP 48? 00:20:15
Well, doesn't matter. And then you know that Bill also does additional things. 00:20:20
It expands the uses of the shift. 00:20:26
Quarter to be used for transportation. Different math. 00:20:28
So there's a fifth quarter. 00:20:33
And I think the council, I think the County Council is, will want cities. 00:20:36
To adopt resolutions, to encourage them to pass, to enact the fifth quarter. 00:20:40
I think that's going to happen. 00:20:46
So, you know, that's a discussion that Mayor, you and the council have talked about. 00:20:47
You know that money will be used. Cities get cities, I think get 0.10 with that. I have to look back into that. That's been years 00:20:52
and years and years ago 10. 00:20:57
Transit gets. 00:21:03
Some some money can now be used for public safety. 00:21:05
You know, because and the thought there was additional public safety for the homecourt. 00:21:08
For homelessness. 00:21:14
In the county. 00:21:16
My guess is this might be the first year that that probably County Council probably will be more encouraged to pass it. 00:21:18
But they're going to, I'm sure they're going to want each council, as many councils as possible. 00:21:26
Sort of encourage the resolution to support passage of. 00:21:31
This quarter a couple of bills dealing with gravel pits. 00:21:38
Because I know a number of you were concerned about the gravel pit. 00:21:44
And I'm sorry, just kind of. 00:21:48
A Senate Bill 172 was. 00:21:51
Was initiated and it was protection area revisions and essentially that was, you know, to provide essentially an open door for new 00:21:55
gravel pants. The initial sponsor of the bill was told it was only going to be in rural Utah. 00:22:02
Well, but that's not what those who wanted the bill to do. 00:22:11
Had it drafted as and so when the bill came out and it was really. 00:22:16
A very controversial, very confrontational approach. 00:22:23
Between those who are providing materials for growing Utah and and municipal areas. 00:22:26
The sponsor said no thanks you guys. You guys told me that it was on rural Utah and it's not, so I'm not doing it. 00:22:35
It was picked up by another sponsor who Built didn't realize at the time all of the controversy and all the mistakes that were 00:22:41
made. So he said thanks, I'm done. 00:22:45
So that bill ended. 00:22:49
House Bill 50. 00:22:51
Critical infrastructure and mining. 00:22:53
The initial draft of that bill was as horrible as 172, but there were discussions on that and the bill passed. 00:22:55
Where the Division of Oil, Gas and Mining is to study critical infrastructure materials operating, including location, size. 00:23:02
Production levels and the extent the levels meet U dot standards of the materials. 00:23:10
They have to report to the Energy Natural Resources Committee. 00:23:15
In November of this year. So that would be the November interim committee meeting. So that says it just turned that whole idea 00:23:19
into a study. 00:23:23
I mean it's basically what they're trying to get down to is they want, we need more material. And so they're trying to say how 00:23:28
much material do we need, what is the cost, where should it come from, the quality, the quality. 00:23:33
Of the transportation. So the important thing about that is there's going to be individuals from the gravel industry, but there's 00:23:38
a lot of city and local government. 00:23:42
Planning organization. So it's going to be safe over from all of the. 00:23:50
So this is what should have done. This is what should have happened before. 00:23:53
You know and you know the will follow the process. 00:23:58
You know, I know we'll have, we'll have that discussion with Cam. 00:24:02
Cameron Hill and the board will leave board to find out who those municipalities are going to be. 00:24:07
You know, whether it's going to be somebody from waste front or mountain lands. 00:24:12
Would be a discussion. 00:24:17
You know, so I would prefer watch that, try that to come from Salt Lake County. 00:24:19
Or Davis. 00:24:24
But you know, because there's something in the water in Utah County, so you're not really quite sure. 00:24:25
But you know, I think we need to figure that out. 00:24:30
But they'll be, they'll be a study. 00:24:33
And in November of this year. 00:24:35
We'll see what, if anything, we'll see in the 20. 00:24:38
25 section. 00:24:41
So very quickly, I just want to run over a few housing bills. 00:24:44
The The name of the game this year was Instead of getting funding from the state, putting money up front, it was. 00:24:49
County and city dollars, right? So a lot of tax increment financing tools. So it's more tools. 00:24:55
Of how you can build an enhanced housing. 00:25:02
I'm going to run through some of them and some of them aren't necessarily directly related to holiday because they're they're more 00:25:04
focused towards new developments, Greenfield areas. But I want to bring up two reasons first. 00:25:09
They could change because as these tools are developing, these people evolve and change. And then the second reason is. 00:25:15
We come back to the legislature measure and say Haitian girl is helping you guys say what they will. All these have these new 00:25:20
tools you created weren't directly targeted towards legacy cities or cities that already built up. So I think just having a 00:25:24
general understanding of all the tools that created. 00:25:28
First one is HP 13 Infrastructure financing. 00:25:33
Person to bring down. Again, this started out as you know it's a deviation of HIDS. 00:25:37
And and then there were a lot of really bad ideas that were coming across what was finally landed on Not great, not terrible. And 00:25:41
that's typically where these bills end up. But it's a new tool that will allow for limited bonding authority by developers and 00:25:47
property owners. They do have limited taxing authorities to operations. 00:25:53
Bonds cannot be paid with property tax and all debts are born solely to the initial property owners and they can't be transferred 00:25:59
until you have final inspection and the bonds are paid off. So basically build it up and then you can sell the properties. 00:26:04
This this isn't going to impact anybody. 00:26:10
This is going to impact those areas in the fringe of growth and development. 00:26:13
Where there are 190,000. 00:26:18
Entitled entitled. 00:26:21
Lots out there. 00:26:23
And no way to get the infrastructure. 00:26:25
This will help that. 00:26:27
So if you're in. 00:26:29
Fairfield in Utah County. 00:26:30
You know you'll be impacted by. 00:26:33
You know, but I don't know anywhere in Salt Lake County. 00:26:35
So a couple other bells 8B4465 Housing Affordability Efficiency Representative White, one of the many bills that came up with 00:26:41
Commission Housing Affordability. 00:26:46
Couple of things it does. So the moderate, your moderate angle, moderate income housing plan, you're going to have to include the 00:26:52
numbers of units that were entitled. 00:26:55
But not yet permitted because sometimes the housing developers are throwing around these numbers. How many buildings are not being 00:26:59
built but cities are entitling? There's nothing permanent built so to give that additional data point. 00:27:04
And also allow funding RDA funding to be used for owner occupied units at 121% AMI. So you can go up a little bit higher on that 00:27:10
affordability level to create new housing, new housing units or renovate housing units. 00:27:18
You can also RDA housing funds can also be used outside of your city if you have an interlocal agreement is made. 00:27:27
And then another one, kind of similar to the RDA bill. 00:27:35
Audit Bill All housing funds moving forward have to be spent in six years. 00:27:38
So you can't six years? 00:27:44
From the date they start getting collected. 00:27:47
So, which means you're not, you know, so if you if you get money in year one. 00:27:50
That money has to be entitled. 00:27:54
Even though the RDA might be 20 years, yes, right, Yes, so. 00:27:58
You don't have to spin. 00:28:03
But you have to entitle it. 00:28:06
Or encumbered and they usually like you have to go back because the terminology is different some of these bills. 00:28:08
So if you plan right, you can have a plan and you're going to say this is my plan and this has been, but you have to plan for your 00:28:13
money on a rolling six year period. 00:28:18
You know, and there were a couple of studies. 00:28:23
That we're sitting on big piles of. 00:28:27
10s of millions. 00:28:30
40 millions of dollars. 00:28:32
And essentially. 00:28:36
They were just sitting on. 00:28:37
So that is where this is coming from. 00:28:39
City, Pennsylvania funds. 00:28:42
OK. HB 476 minus the land use regulations, another shop that's. 00:28:44
I think we're OK because Todd looked over this bill. There was it immensely. Items in the municipality can require for development 00:28:52
agreements, including height, density transfers, parking, setbacks and zone changes, but it restricts the city from acquiring an 00:28:57
agreement if the development meets the current zoning ordinances. 00:29:01
So that's just something that moving forward. 00:29:06
Keeping in mind. 00:29:10
They've always won. 00:29:15
Oh, so that was a lot of restrictions, Bill, that really would have limited a lot of initial bill, the initial bill. But in the 00:29:17
final version of it, it really just restricts I think overhead irrigation. I think that's right. And we were concerned about that 00:29:23
just with the possibility of scrambling development. 00:29:29
Look, as we're looking at a lot of open things, skilled space that would have been challenging. 00:29:37
But was great to work with. 00:29:46
You know, it passed the house just like that. 00:29:50
And then we had. We worked on it. 00:29:54
Another bill that we just want to bring up is housing funding. Again, again, not directly related this bill for legacy cities, but 00:29:59
I think it's going to be changing as we move forward. HP 572 straight state treasurer investment amendments and so this deals with 00:30:05
the public treasurer's investment fund. 00:30:10
And that big pot of money where you put excess funds continue to grow. 00:30:17
They're going to take a state portion of that, up to $300 million of state dollars, and then the banks can use these funds with 00:30:21
developers to develop affordable housing. So it's another basic pot of money for investing in housing. 00:30:28
Right now, it's only for new housing. 00:30:35
Not super helpful for holiday, but we've already started talking to representatives. 00:30:37
Waldrick, who is Director of housing in Governor Cox office and how do you start to be able to? Because this is a great. 00:30:44
For new cities and growing cities and what about the legacy cities? So we're going to talk about can we make a provision in there 00:30:52
that legacy cities can also tap into these funds. 00:30:55
You know to do that one of the issues is I don't know if this is a big this would be important. 00:31:00
But you know, for example, the street, Salt Lake City for example, there are a lot of rental housing in Salt Lake City. 00:31:06
And a lot of that housing symptoms become substantial. 00:31:12
And Salt Lake City School District just went through for us as the warm. 00:31:17
It has an alpha and closing elementary schools. 00:31:21
So if you've got. 00:31:25
Rental detached housing. 00:31:26
You know, 2-3 four bedroom houses, you know, they're not very big and they might have two bedrooms. 00:31:30
Can we how can we get those? 00:31:37
Hit those homes, picks them up. 00:31:39
But they'll buy them from the landlord. 00:31:41
Picks them up. Sell them to home phone buyers. 00:31:44
And start putting their families in those homes. 00:31:48
Well, the problem with that is when you buy that house. 00:31:50
You're not just buying the structure, you're buying the interest rate. 00:31:54
And so, so one of the thoughts for next year is we have more time. 00:31:58
Perhaps the RDA can buy the home. 00:32:02
And because we can write down the cost of it. 00:32:06
The RDA can buy the home. 00:32:10
By the revenue St. picks it up. 00:32:11
Eat some of that cost and then sell the. 00:32:14
And use this. 00:32:17
And so that's one of the things we're looking at next year that may be a children holiday. 00:32:20
Just quickly want to touch on SB168 housing affordability amendments about the statewide building Clipper module homes and module 00:32:26
buildings to be a new building technology and then it kind of goes through the processes of what that was, how that would look 00:32:30
like. 00:32:34
It also creates. Again this is. 00:32:39
I don't know if it would necessarily affect, it's called the hops in the acronym Home Ownership Promotion Zones. And basically it 00:32:42
allows you if you if it's an acre up to 6 acres. 00:32:48
You increase the zoning. I'm sorry, no under 10 acres if it's six units per acre if you up zone. 00:32:53
You can use the tax increment financing up to 60% to reinvest. 00:33:02
Now the goal is here to try to identify some of our zoning, but I don't know how much tactic you'll actually get from this tool. 00:33:07
But it is a it was pushed by a House leadership. 00:33:12
Law. 00:33:19
And. 00:33:20
The owner wants to put. 00:33:23
You know, and if you want that to happen, you can do a house. 00:33:28
And because you're up to zone, the neighbors won't mind at all neighbors. That's your problem. 00:33:31
But again. 00:33:41
Another one that there's a long bill, but I just want to mention one piece of it and this was SB-268 first time investment. 00:33:46
This is the Fizz. It's the first home investment zone that largely can be used in holiday because it's in a city, town, medium 00:33:54
density, mixed-use and you have extra territorial new development. But the piece of the bill that I want to highlight? 00:34:01
To do one of these, the county required they wanted something in there and they basically said if you want to do one of these. 00:34:09
You have to prohibit the creation if you're. 00:34:16
RDA retains cash and cash equivalent assets of more than 20% ongoing unencumbered annual revenue. 00:34:20
Because they're worried about those cash back, those, those cash balances of too much money sitting in your Rdas. 00:34:26
This won't affect you, but you don't probably won't be creating these physics. 00:34:31
But the concern here is that the county put it into this bill. 00:34:36
Is it going to go into other RDA and other CRA? 00:34:39
So again, they're saying if you want to create easy tax increment financing tools, you've got to have your cash. 00:34:42
So I bring that up just as these are the tools that are kind of coming online and then the pieces that are kind of entering 00:34:51
because now you've got HDR ZS, you've got Fizz, you've got Hawks, you've got. 00:34:56
I mean there was like, you know, there's like six of these were supposed to be the starter home in business over shares. 00:35:02
Not a good. 00:35:08
And I kept telling them that if you keep saying that, I'm going to find out, but AT. 00:35:11
And again, just. 00:35:17
Kind of an awareness of all of these new. 00:35:22
Coming online and trying to solve. 00:35:27
Questions. That was 24. 00:35:31
OK. Any questions? Great. If not. 00:35:36
Next Wednesday the 17th, let's set up management. 00:35:39
Makes for the first time during this interim, so we start already for next year. 00:35:42
They will set aside, they will announce the all the interim meeting dates. 00:35:47
For the rest of the calendar. 00:35:53
And what the schedule is going to be that will assign issue topics to each of the communities. So we'll know that next next 00:35:56
Wednesday and we'll share that with everybody, make sure you guys don't know and then as bills take effect on May 1. 00:36:04
That means on May 2. 00:36:13
Legislators can open up bill files, actually. 00:36:15
And probably on May 2, you'll see about 350 bill puzzle. 00:36:18
It begins again. 00:36:25
Quick question, you talked about the gravel pits, parties down an issue. 00:36:28
Going back to a year ago, there was a bill that everyone was so upset about. 00:36:33
Regarding roads around gravel pits, whatever happened with that, I know that there was a huge push to have. 00:36:38
The governor. 00:36:45
The sales tax. 00:36:47
It went into effect and that it would not be. 00:36:52
You know, and you know, that's a great question. I don't know. I don't know. I thought somebody was suing over it. 00:36:56
Yeah. And I'm not even sure, you know, now that we're into that almost a year now, I'm not even sure how that is infected sales 00:37:05
tax of local government. 00:37:10
That's the challenging part. We expect we would receive laughs, but it's not like it's nine items the only way, the only way, I 00:37:16
think you'll realize it. 00:37:21
Is if you have either the gravel pit or the business office of the company in your city where you are the. 00:37:27
Well, you're the. 00:37:36
With the. 00:37:39
Local option. 00:37:42
Where? Where you get the front of that money. If they have 50% of this point itself, that's the only way you're going to see it. 00:37:43
Because you'll still always get. 00:37:50
50% population distribution, that's not going to change, but what will change is where that point of cells. 00:37:52
And so that was our concern was that we bear the burden of the gravel pit to a large extent in Canyon Cove, the one that is 00:37:59
adjacent to us. 00:38:04
But it's not in our city. So I mean I think this is going to be one of my agencies. If you change it, what you get changes and 00:38:10
then looking at overall, right. So you can see the big changes in. 00:38:15
You know, the initial five or two would have been devastating. 00:38:23
Because they should just arbitrarily move out and expand. 00:38:28
So you know it was. 00:38:34
Very delicate negotiations. 00:38:36
Can you The only bill that I'd like you to touch on is the inspection bill. Oh yes, so SB185. 00:38:40
Senator Vickers, and this is the building, accept yourself and it started in a terrible place when it got to, I think it wasn't 00:38:49
that bad of a bill because what they were saying and I think it's coming out of one state in Cedar City that they weren't getting 00:38:54
their sessions not three day time requirement. 00:38:59
And so the final and. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the final version is. 00:39:03
The owner, the property owner developed. The builder can request that and they don't get in three days. 00:39:09
The they go to an approved list by the city, an approved third party inspectors. But then there's the liabilities on that 00:39:14
inspector right? The city doesn't have the liability. 00:39:20
But you the only way you go to that third party is after you pass that three day. 00:39:25
And it's on an approved list. 00:39:31
So not surprisingly, we're having some trouble getting people willing to sign up for that because I mean, like, they're 00:39:34
independent, right? And then. 00:39:38
The area that they pick up cover. 00:39:43
Timeframes the responsibility, the liabilities a. 00:39:45
I think it's one of those bills that got. 00:39:49
It came up with a solution that was so competitive and complicated that it's not going to actually solve the problem. 00:39:52
Especially because I think the problem is so limited and directed. 00:39:57
On the two cities that are really having this problem. So instead of you know, trying to figure it out what has all the problems, 00:40:01
they try to. 00:40:04
Create this build I don't know how. 00:40:07
The good news is that over a lot of, I mean this is you know the work of what you do. All the negotiations ended up in a much 00:40:10
better place because originally when it started it was you could go to any inspector that you wanted at any time at the get go and 00:40:15
there was none of these, you know, none of these repercussions or responsibilities or cities and things like that. So it ended up 00:40:19
in a good place. 00:40:23
As far as not damaging, but I don't know how. 00:40:28
Words are in a good place. Words policy is and the actual actualization of finding inspectors who want to put their reputation on 00:40:31
the line. 00:40:36
With you know to go and inspect and potentially face the liability. 00:40:42
Any other questions? 00:40:53
All right. 00:40:56
Hopefully. 00:41:09
It was part of, yeah, it was. 00:41:11
It was approved, so now it will go through a process and this is some federal remark. 00:41:16
It will need to come to us. 00:41:23
For a process that's kind of similar to a brand application. 00:41:25
All right. Well, thank you guys for working on behalf of the city. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. 00:41:33
All right. 00:41:40
All right. Have a good night. I promise I will not. I will not. 00:41:48
Send my application to your school garden. 00:41:51
It's the last thing you want. 00:41:55
There aren't enough hours in the day. 00:42:00
You guys. OK. Thanks, John. And Carrie, you're up. 00:42:03
Next. Next. 00:42:08
Come on to that, let's see the regional first, because John, you said you could take two minutes and just clarify the whole thing 00:42:10
for us. 00:42:14
Reason is easy, We can do that. 00:42:18
I don't think this reason is an issue for the Council so. 00:42:25
I was just trying to clarify them for it because it seemed like they were focused on. 00:42:30
Pending C2 and it's like this isn't about. 00:42:35
I was kind of in a Papa bear moment in. 00:42:40
Most of our staff reports to you. 00:42:44
Do provide a level analysis. Some of it's professional. 00:42:49
Cover the majority of it, 90% of this. 00:42:53
The ordinance very clearly says that we have to provide you with an analysis of what? 00:42:57
So that section of the general plan is 1 portion of that report. The other is the recommendation, so. 00:43:03
May or may not like what's in that analysis. 00:43:10
It is old. 00:43:14
However, luckily we are going to update that general plan. 00:43:16
And in fact, we signed up today that we were putting out our RFP for. 00:43:20
Consultants on your new General Plan update? 00:43:25
May 1st. 00:43:28
So by summer, we'll be due in. 00:43:30
All the smaller master plans that go with it. 00:43:35
In the Hawaii Village zone to. 00:43:39
Master plan to. 00:43:41
And to include the new. 00:43:43
Well, I mean, obviously I did a very poor job of it, but. 00:43:47
What I was, I think what I was trying to say to them was. 00:43:51
Staff basically says that. 00:43:55
According to the general plan. 00:43:57
This is probably appropriate for C2. However, this application is appropriate and supported by the Planning Commission staff. 00:44:00
So that's what I got. 00:44:07
I wasn't seen to pee off anybody off by asking questions. 00:44:11
But mostly I just have residents in my mind. 00:44:18
Conversations we had about and the. 00:44:20
And came into play, if you recall down on Highland Drive where we have, as I recall there was C2 then there was. 00:44:23
Some other zone and then more C2. There's just this pocket. 00:44:29
And so I think in the spirit of critical thinking, I wanted to just say, OK, are we? 00:44:33
You know creating that that we have tried to avoid. 00:44:38
I don't have a drive. 00:44:41
And the other thing is, I look at that too, I just think. 00:44:44
I wanted to understand for my own sake what is the real difference in the impact to the neighborhood because to me it's extremely 00:44:49
separated when you've got a circle that comes in from the back versus this frontage on Highland Drive and. 00:44:55
You know, it creates an awkward land use. 00:45:02
Interaction, right? 00:45:05
Most of your zones. Most of your zones that are. 00:45:07
Hybrid, commercial or street? 00:45:11
Along commercial do have buffers, setbacks, buffering standards within those zones. 00:45:13
Not necessarily having the zone itself be the buffering. 00:45:18
But there are set back standards, especially when they have. 00:45:22
Residential property. 00:45:25
In this case, the PO and the C2 zones are the same. 00:45:27
Things have suffered or did set back on the rear is slightly different on C2 versus. 00:45:30
Versus the PO? 00:45:39
I think it's 15 and C2 and. 00:45:41
Yeah. 00:45:45
But then there's other. 00:45:50
There's other options that would meet the general plans. 00:45:57
Designation as exclusively commercial. 00:46:02
So maybe it would be less intensive. 00:46:05
Applications what the application is. 00:46:10
In the application's. Great. 00:46:14
If we got any issues with that, yeah. So I think we're good. 00:46:16
So then we go to the APU, right? Right. So this is a big piece in. 00:46:21
The fact that is the best way to handle this. To go to your summary, do you think or? 00:46:27
The summary is the presentation was created off about each of those sentences. 00:46:36
So I think going to let's start at the summary and just. 00:46:42
Right. I don't know, I think. 00:46:50
Either way. 00:46:52
Repetitive. When I was talking to Gina today, we were talking about how we should approach this because you got. 00:46:55
The Planning Commission's kind of a vision and the staff's vision, but. 00:47:02
But then I didn't know if. 00:47:07
One was sort of a would be considered if you guys are kind of loggerheads or for Planning Commission was a. 00:47:09
There's an evolution of the process with where there may still be some differences. 00:47:16
But were there some changes made by the Planning Commission that you're. Oh yeah, that's a good idea. Was it, was there any 00:47:21
evolution element to it or was it more no. 00:47:26
It was an ongoing discussion where it was, here's what's presented. You know, maybe we're not quite so comfortable with this. 00:47:33
Let's change this. 00:47:37
So I kind of supported, yeah, that's a good idea. We can do that. Some things there weren't as. 00:47:42
There was not as much discussion around or really thorough analysis. 00:47:47
But I think that. 00:47:53
Did they increase the setbacks on the last one? I mean, that's one of our bigger issues. Is that the 10 foot minimum regardless? 00:47:55
Yeah. And understanding like the intent of the Planning Commission, yes. They want to ensure that there's privacy between 00:48:00
properties. 00:48:05
So that's kind of how we're addressing it. It might have been more random than. 00:48:11
Then based on good principles, yeah. 00:48:18
So that's that's kind of where those differences came out. 00:48:21
They they could be adjusted and changed. You can send it back to the. 00:48:27
Or have staff look at those specific things in May. So any recommendations? 00:48:35
I've never. 00:48:42
Direction with those differences. 00:48:45
Yeah, I think by the time. 00:48:47
We were getting into the. 00:48:49
Yeah, throwing out a couple of. 00:48:59
What? You know zoning standards. 00:49:03
As far as setbacks are concerned. 00:49:05
Are largely assuring. 00:49:07
There's no real scientific. 00:49:09
Yeah, otherwise but. But. 00:49:13
You're doing a consistency among certain elements. So for instance, if the primary building set back is actually, don't want the 00:49:15
accessory to be some. 00:49:20
Weird number that has no context. 00:49:24
Relative to the. 00:49:27
The primers, especially when you have a lot of. 00:49:28
Neighborhoods have narrow widths. 00:49:33
The required set back for a home might be even more. 00:49:36
Then what? A set back or even less than what the accessory building, right? 00:49:40
Set back which or. 00:49:47
With some points that could go up to like 6 1/2 feet cause. 00:49:50
The average would be like 8 foot. 00:49:54
So you have an average step back, you can come closer 15%. 00:49:56
With some variations. 00:50:01
It has rebuilding the same kind of concept where it can be averaged. 00:50:05
But that having a. 00:50:11
Smaller size lots with a setback that would be. 00:50:13
Even smaller than what the Planning Commission is proposing for an accessory building. 00:50:17
With workers. 00:50:21
We're looking at the impact of the primary structure versus the accessory structure, and accessory structures are going to vary in 00:50:24
size depending on. 00:50:28
The total lot coverage, so there's a lot of different checks on accessory buildings themselves that. 00:50:33
By nature, they are less actual than a primary structure. 00:50:39
So accessory buildings that are not. 00:50:43
Dwelling units versus central buildings that are. 00:50:48
Rights which changes and accessory buildings can still be more practical than an accessory compelling unit. 00:50:53
Uses their garage for parties and. 00:51:03
Or machine shop for personal use. And there's there's a lot of various. 00:51:07
Impacts that can still occur in accessory buildings. 00:51:13
When we're looking at impacts, looking at how are we attracting the impacts, so the impacts associated with this. 00:51:17
Addressed by Noise Princess. 00:51:24
Obtuse. 00:51:28
Public nuisance or what address? 00:51:30
And so that's kind of the same approach that we see with like an accessory dwelling unit, Okay, this is a dwelling unit. 00:51:34
How are we addressing the impact specific to Indian Welling unit? 00:51:41
So the city, how much this deals with internal accessory? Is that pretty much clarified? 00:51:49
So this is only related to EADUS. 00:51:55
And so. 00:51:59
We're making a simple statement here, but what we're trying to do is see it. 00:52:01
See if we can give. 00:52:05
Staff guidance to actually come up with an ordinance that we can vote on 25th. 00:52:07
Right. And what are? 00:52:13
Or this report. Are these the issues that need to be clarified? So you just need to go through one at a time? We'll go through and 00:52:16
you can say adjust this or can I question the premise? 00:52:22
Why do we need to pass anything? 00:52:29
We don't. We don't. We don't need to vote on it next week and I think. 00:52:31
Well, we need to change. 00:52:36
Do you mean like we could refer back to the Planning Commission? So what I'm saying is, are we under the gun to do something? No, 00:52:38
by mandate. And so our goal is to make sure we do something right, not something fast. And it seems like suddenly we've got this 00:52:43
drop dead date that. 00:52:48
No, I don't think we need the public hearings closed. 00:52:54
But the issues that are in here, if we can't get, you know, I don't want to spend. 00:52:57
Two hours on this tonight if we need to put it to your point, if we need to put on the work agenda for the 25th. 00:53:03
To continue the discussion, we can do that. I mean what one of my concerns. 00:53:08
I think the overall guidance I remember getting was if there's some low hanging fruit with regarding some external Pdus. 00:53:15
If someone can knock something out. 00:53:22
Because it feels like this got bigger than low hanging fruit. 00:53:25
And the other. 00:53:28
The reason I'm concerned about that is that we've got this. 00:53:30
Ever steepening mandate. 00:53:34
Cycle that's coming towards us from the legislature about housing. 00:53:38
And I'm loathe to get out in front of that. 00:53:41
Because there's not. Yeah, I don't want to. 00:53:45
Do something before we can get credit for it in that ever increasing mandate environment. 00:53:50
Because then it won't count. 00:53:57
We do it too soon. 00:53:59
And because then also we do something and then the mandate comes, you've got to do something more by additional have 25% more 00:54:02
effectiveness. We did something too soon we're not. So even those I don't know that any work that we do here would be lost. 00:54:09
But perhaps it might be wise to not. 00:54:18
Be in a hurry. 00:54:21
Because it might, it might come to a point where we have to do this. 00:54:24
And then we've got in our pocket. 00:54:27
Can we get credit for it or is it possible? Arizona Core analysis of. 00:54:30
Required a crystal ball that nobody has so in Francis. So this has to do with. 00:54:35
The modern income piece we just adopted, right? And these boxes we have to check in, so. 00:54:42
Are you concerned about that that? 00:54:51
We should be. 00:54:54
Stretching out our opportunities to check our boxes? Yes, exactly. 00:54:57
Because you can't check a box that says within this year you've got to do X and well, we've already kind of shot this bot, as it 00:55:02
were. 00:55:06
And we can't count it. There's a box checking opportunity. 00:55:10
And I'm really concerned about boxing with the legislature. 00:55:14
Do we have enough information to strategize that or? 00:55:18
Harry is sort of holding back and they're going to change something, but it may not match. You hate to not do the right thing just 00:55:23
for that reason, yeah. 00:55:28
It requires a crystal ball. 00:55:34
That's why I say that's why I was kind of focused on low hanging fruit as opposed to. 00:55:36
Redesigned. What were you going to say in? 00:55:40
I seem to say that in. 00:55:43
Having a discussion. 00:55:49
Moving towards. 00:55:51
Reducing the regulations. 00:55:55
Whether it be 1 item? 00:55:58
We can report. 00:56:01
It doesn't require us to. 00:56:04
We've done this. 00:56:17
So what you're saying is we would get credit for this? 00:56:22
And if we did a little bit and then a little bit next year, we could. 00:56:25
Yes, because we put on their timeline. 00:56:29
Yeah, but this is. 00:56:39
It's something we should do, yeah, Yeah, we need to. We need for the needs of the residents first. 00:56:41
Regardless of what we think that we're going to be required to do by legislature. 00:56:48
But personally, residents do it. Yeah, question of what is that? 00:56:53
But regardless of that, it's also lots of residents are like. 00:56:57
But making every R1 zone R2. 00:57:02
So there's that, there's, there's the longer term strategic piece. So it doesn't seem to be an issue like it. 00:57:05
We should we should do this. 00:57:10
But that doesn't mean we have to put on the agenda to vote for the 2050. 00:57:12
Because there's some stuff that we can't, I don't want to spend. 00:57:16
You know, I say, let's give this 1/2 an hour, so we'll start chipping through these things, but we should vote this. 00:57:20
Put it on for a vote until we're comfortable. 00:57:27
That we've gone through all these things and reach what we agreed on. 00:57:29
The individual issues that are outlined here. 00:57:34
That really breakdown, that matrix that staff created about. 00:57:37
What the staff said they would recommend, and we're different from the Planning Commission. I think that was the issue we had 00:57:41
right and right. So I think we need to walk through, start walking through each of those individual issues. 00:57:47
See if we can reach consensus. 00:57:53
And you know, we can get through as much as we can, but I don't think they're, if we get through the night right. I don't want to 00:57:56
spend. 00:57:58
I don't want to spend an hour and a half. We can move it to the next. 00:58:02
To the 25th and continue and then when we're ready. 00:58:07
Will vote it or if we're still uncomfortable with it, we could always say. 00:58:10
Because it almost sounded like the Planning Commission punted a little bit on it to say, let's just. 00:58:14
These are. 00:58:20
Table it to a further date. 00:58:25
We can study it further. 00:58:27
Weights, and I think the Planning Commission too. 00:58:29
Especially when they were looking at like, let's start at this like we're all comfortable with reducing the law size. 00:58:35
Maybe then in two years or whatever period of time we can look at. 00:58:43
Reducing that more so I think having some of that periodic review I think and when you were talking about like. 00:58:50
Incremental. So maybe looking at it as an incremental, OK, what? 00:58:57
What things would be most important or high priority to pass and follow that with? Let's look at it in another year or two years 00:59:02
and. 00:59:06
What other things we? 00:59:10
I think when you're looking at like below hanging fruit when we got into the ordinance, it's like. 00:59:13
How do you? How do you? 00:59:19
Just single out just a little element when you could. 00:59:22
Comprehensively address some of the issues that are that are within it. 00:59:26
And that's when we got into looking at what the code is and what needed to be changed to allow for modification of or conversion 00:59:31
of the existing accessory buildings. That's where it got a little bit. 00:59:37
Like it's not as simple. 00:59:44
As the Planning Commission for their pointless. 00:59:46
Yeah, building a new structure complies with short standards is. 00:59:49
Possibly better than converting this thing. 00:59:54
So that's. 00:59:57
Gina, let me ask you how much of the budget discussion, how much is there? I mean, I'm going to guess that conversational thing is 01:00:00
20 minutes or so. 01:00:04
Well, why don't we? 01:00:08
This team my suggestions. Why don't we start going through? 01:00:10
The individual issues and see how far we get. 01:00:14
And it will take from there. But at some point I may just say, OK, let's. 01:00:17
Stop here. 01:00:21
Put it on for the 25th and we'll start over again. See if we get through, because I think we don't have there's no rush to focus. 01:00:23
It's just a quick comment and looking at the goals that we submitted. 01:00:30
It's a quarterly review. 01:00:34
That we are. 01:00:37
So it's not specific or what we've done, but just review any value. 01:00:46
There is a box needing to be checked that we can check as a result. 01:00:55
Looks like we've got the first quarter and second quarter, that's right. 01:01:00
Quick question to answer you if I mean, even if you pass new code or changes to the code, you could still have that review be part 01:01:04
of your. 01:01:08
How successful it was. Great. 01:01:19
Last because you kind of move through this. 01:01:23
If there are specific areas that are kind of addressed, the. 01:01:27
For, can you highlight those for? 01:01:32
Is that a specific issue? Is there or is it multiple to a degree? 01:01:36
Yeah, and I think that his situation is. 01:01:44
Would be more focused on impact. 01:01:47
And that was the kind of consideration of as well you know, what is the impact, how do you detach structures? 01:01:50
Affect neighboring properties, that's where the height limitation that they they wanted to have is in there. So if you have 01:01:59
something that's underground, what is the impact? 01:02:03
I think that that's a consideration for. 01:02:08
Conversion of existing structures. Can we do? 01:02:13
I think staff suggestion was. 01:02:17
Maybe having those be conditional use permits? 01:02:19
So that converting existing accessory structures. 01:02:22
To a accessory unit. 01:02:26
Would have to have a condition, at least permit review by the Planning Commission and then conditions are placed on those 01:02:29
specifically. 01:02:32
So that they have the oversight. You know the impact on this is too great. It can't be mitigated with XY or Z. 01:02:36
So that's an event would be. 01:02:43
So this is actually my question so. 01:02:48
Because this all started with the idea of enabling the conversion of existing structure. So is that are all these focused just in 01:02:50
that scenario or are they on new structures as well they be on new structures. So I just wanted to see the scope of it Okay, so 01:02:57
you have some elements of the code that then if you're converting existing structures. 01:03:04
That kind of effect other intersection, Yeah. So they're they're interrelated. That's fine. I just wanted to understand the scope, 01:03:12
so. 01:03:15
All right. 01:03:18
Main statement This addresses Mr. Hilton's comments. 01:03:22
That in the last public hearing. 01:03:27
That the C code. 01:03:32
Just references residential zones, so our code currently says single family zones. 01:03:33
So we're renewing single family and just adding. 01:03:40
Residential zones. 01:03:43
And we're adding detached structures. So then adus being added to two classes and family multi family units. 01:03:45
Are not permitted. 01:03:55
Yeah, previously we actually. 01:03:58
There's our one zones, but by state code it says all residential zones. 01:04:01
Single family residences shall be able to have. 01:04:06
This is the one that we really should change. 01:04:10
Does that include an art two zone? 01:04:16
Yes, you have. If it does have a single family house on it in our two zone, yes it does. 01:04:19
It wouldn't include, no. 01:04:26
So it has to be a detached structure. So if you have an R2 zone and it's an attached unit, SO2 units duplex. 01:04:29
You can't do an expensive. 01:04:37
So the qualifier is that it only applies to detached structures. 01:04:40
Because you could have a detached single family home that's in a. 01:04:45
Multi family Residential. 01:04:50
They can add an accessory welding unit. 01:04:53
All right. Next one. 01:05:01
Property owner on site. So our existing language just states with the property owner living on site. 01:05:05
We added additional language which requires owner occupancy by the property owner or an immediate family member. 01:05:13
The Planning Commission wanted to narrow that down to immediate family member. 01:05:22
Originally proposed. 01:05:27
Wider definition of family member. 01:05:29
We're fine with a narrow definition they wanted to have. Like if you have grandpa that owns property, maybe. 01:05:32
This father daughter can live in the house and still have an accessory well unit. 01:05:39
So they would fall under that definition of because they are. 01:05:44
Directly related as. 01:05:49
Do I have the language in there? It's. 01:05:53
Grandmother. Grandfather. 01:05:56
A son, daughter. 01:05:59
I don't think it's easy that queue. 01:06:01
Grandkids first level of relationship. 01:06:06
And that's if I get their code like it's spelled out what relationships are are in there. 01:06:11
Owner occupied requires full time residency, so that adds additional clarification. 01:06:17
From our existing language, there was like the three-year. 01:06:24
Is that device in state language is what will? 01:06:32
Typically under taxation purchases. 01:06:36
So I think it seemed after reside in your house as rigorous and store. 01:06:39
182 days a year, whatever more than six months is. 01:06:45
So that just requires the full residency and um. 01:06:51
We added language for occupancy some cities. 01:06:58
Want to limit the occupancy? We didn't want to get into limiting occupancy. 01:07:04
And that was the Planning Commission brought up like. 01:07:12
Well, what is that? 01:07:15
Code is. 01:07:19
You're not limiting occupancy to only two or only three. 01:07:20
That's the changes with kind of the ownership exceptions for military jobs, volunteer service. 01:07:28
Any questions on that one? 01:07:38
All right. 01:07:41
So can I just clarify when you say that for, excuse me, the staff recommendation works well, again, there's an evolution. 01:07:45
What's the frequency of these like? 01:07:54
Well, the frequency is more. 01:08:03
To the denials, we get a lot. 01:08:06
Maybe 20% of my. 01:08:14
How many applications? 01:08:15
Well, it's the people call and ask about it and we have a conversation saying you have to have it on have paper larger. 01:08:17
And so there's just for two times a lot of steps, yes. So do you see you get. 01:08:26
We get people in all the time I was. 01:08:33
We had we had at least two applications that we denied 0.48 and .46 acres we have. 01:08:36
People that are looking for and it's typically like I'm looking for a place for my mother-in-law to come live that has some work, 01:08:45
right? 01:08:50
In our 110 zone. 01:08:55
On what .48 and R110? 01:08:57
.48 in Norwin 10. 01:09:03
To have twice the minimum lot size. 01:09:08
Yes, I think they will. 01:09:12
Possibly. 01:09:15
R115 or something? 01:09:18
So I would suspect at least. 01:09:21
Four to six a week. 01:09:23
So once this changes. 01:09:27
That's going to generate a lot of. 01:09:31
Well, depending on how many. 01:09:34
All right, Parking. So right now our code is. 01:09:42
Calls for one additional on site parking spot. 01:09:46
We changed to. 01:09:50
If additional bedrooms are being added outside of the existing footprint of the house, and that doesn't matter if you're adding 01:09:52
on. 01:09:56
3 bedrooms as an Adu to reserve the same structure or three bedrooms in a detached structure. 01:10:00
Adding parking that's tied to the upper bedrooms that you're adding is that, is that. 01:10:08
Based on like how you would do it if someone's doing a remodel. This is a similar kind of remodel, so. 01:10:14
If they're just remodeling their their space. 01:10:20
We don't require additional parking there, but it's. 01:10:25
If they're adding on specifically to do an accessory welding unit. 01:10:28
And you're kind of adopting like the RM standards, it's parking standards that are political in any zone, OK? 01:10:32
Because the Planning Commission's. 01:10:40
Recommendation was. 01:10:43
Based on bedrooms, which is kind of a. 01:10:45
Parking standards It applies to RMR 2. 01:10:49
All of our excuse zones if you're adding. 01:10:53
Living units. Your parking spaces are tight. How many bedrooms? So it's one bedroom is 1 parking space, 2 bedrooms is 1 spaces. 01:10:56
So they would just have to have. 01:11:08
Those additional parking spaces instead of just. 01:11:11
And our current language also has no on street parking for Edu's. 01:11:15
So I'm sorry, can you explain the difference between your recommendation of the Planning Commission because. 01:11:22
Feels like what you explained similar to it. 01:11:28
Yeah, we didn't have the changes for the parking in the code. 01:11:30
Commission wanted to have some additional regulations for parking. 01:11:35
To adding. 01:11:40
External EU or adding? 01:11:42
Onto the structure specific. 01:11:46
Because that's the common issue with parking. Is common conservative neighbors when 80s are being built or are they going to park? 01:11:50
So how do you feel about their animation? 01:11:55
It makes sense. 01:12:01
And what's the internal Adu requirement for parking? It's just one off site, so that would stay the same. 01:12:04
Just because you're seeing that in terms of what an existing house is? 01:12:12
You're already going to have parking already tied to. 01:12:16
Currently so this is more than internal. 01:12:23
It's expanding outside of what the existing is. 01:12:28
So since you're adding more bedrooms on specifically for an accessory unit. 01:12:32
That's when you trigger then the additional parking requirements. 01:12:37
So it was their consensus that this was OK, or was this a point of contention? 01:12:45
This one looks fine. OK, that's great. 01:12:50
External Adu minimum lot size. 01:12:54
Current language is. 01:12:59
Be located on a lot of record measuring twice minimum or a minimum. 01:13:01
Commonly what we see on half acre and larger lots is that people would typically build a guest house with a larger footprint on 01:13:07
it. It's suitably larger properties that can't be subdivided because they're in. 01:13:13
A1 acre bottom or two acre, whatever that might be. 01:13:20
So, and since they can't subdivide it like mobile build a guest house and my kids will live here, we've done several conditional 01:13:24
use permit support. 01:13:28
Increasing the low print size for a guest house. 01:13:34
For that kind of situation. 01:13:36
Typically with your larger lots of points, the larger. 01:13:39
Structures that are being built. 01:13:42
Most commonly for family user, they're not going to build it. 01:13:44
2000 Square House. 01:13:49
So just they use. 01:13:52
Intent is typically different on larger properties things. 01:13:54
So stop. 01:13:59
Staff recommendation was because accessory building footprints are regulated based off of the footprint size. 01:14:03
Proportional when you have a smaller watch. 01:14:15
Smaller accessory building. 01:14:18
So that was kind of the logic behind that. That's all we watched. 01:14:20
You're going to have smaller structure coverage percentage allowed. 01:14:24
Just like to build a giant house on. 01:14:28
Small lots you wouldn't be able to do like a big house and a big accessory, so. 01:14:30
It balances out with lot coverage and. 01:14:36
So that's where SAP was comfortable. 01:14:41
That let's just have it be on any box and these other regulations that are in place kind of. 01:14:44
Keep that. 01:14:50
Although this could also be one of those potential progression elements where you start here and we. 01:14:53
That's what the Planning Commission would recommend. 01:15:00
Let's start at quarter acre and see how that goes and if we've been. 01:15:03
Reducing up to. 01:15:11
Any lodge for 8000 square foot. 01:15:14
See. 01:15:19
Portions that are typically. 01:15:20
Oscillate the R18 zones are up in here District plan. 01:15:23
Or Drew, sorry. 01:15:27
So those are R18 we have a small section down by. 01:15:30
Highlands. 01:15:36
And I think over in your. 01:15:40
Where I am. 01:15:44
There's just a few small sections that are R18, so that's where you see those. 01:15:51
Yeah, they would likely put in smaller external units, if at all. Yeah, they're already pretty pressed on their last day, so 01:16:01
that's what you're saying. This is allowed R1A. 01:16:07
Yeah, and they want to put DAU on it. 01:16:13
How are they going to do it with block coverage and setbacks? I mean, it's almost right, they can't convert an existing building, 01:16:16
but it's just basically saying why don't we just say 10,000 square feet and then if we want to revisit it, but we're not 01:16:22
comfortable below that. So this was one of the issues that I thought. 01:16:28
Mr. Kemp was saying it was prohibitive for him, right? His property is just under 8000 square feet. So he was he's our 1/8. 01:16:35
His property was originally 8000 square feet, but because of. 01:16:48
Dedication. He's just below 8000. 01:16:53
But if he zoned R18 and we said we're, well, yes. So if we said 8000 square foot lots, he still doesn't hate the regulation. 01:16:57
And that's worth like, yeah, you can still have. 01:17:05
If you reduce that minimum, just not have minimum lot size, it's a meeting all these qualifications. 01:17:07
And looking at the impact. 01:17:15
If you could have the accessory structure, that maybe doesn't have a large impact on neighboring properties. 01:17:18
So what does he have there? That's an issue? Does he have a garage that has so his detached garage? 01:17:26
Has a large house that's fronting onto butternuts and then the small side street is where the detached garage is. 01:17:34
And they detached it so that it can go closer to the property line because and where's the? Where's the dwelling here? 01:17:41
Underneath the rush. So it really purposes it should be an internal dwelling here like that's really is there a way? But is there 01:17:50
a way? 01:17:55
Inside the code to cover that but like. 01:18:01
In terms of how do you define an attachment or? 01:18:04
It's within so many feet of the house. Yeah, that's why he was bringing up IS. 01:18:08
Is there some way to create? 01:18:12
Something in the code that yes it's. 01:18:16
Within a specific distance, the primary. 01:18:19
Then it would be. 01:18:22
Internal. Is that possible? 01:18:25
Yeah, because I see what I know of the house. 01:18:33
And it's certainly not interest to the neighborhood, so I can see where he's coming from. 01:18:37
But I wouldn't want to. 01:18:42
Write code based on. 01:18:44
But this is a good example of where law is a clunky way we do the best we can, right? 01:18:48
Right came down to existing buildings. 01:18:57
So those are kind of the elements that were proposed. 01:19:03
Wasn't necessary. 01:19:12
So if we adopted the staff recommendations, this. 01:19:20
Here. 01:19:27
The staff recommendation is. 01:19:34
All the staff. 01:19:40
What about when you said conversion of existing buildings would be a conditional use? 01:19:42
And that would that's a staff recommendation as well. So that's that additional, yeah, it's an additional oversight that. 01:19:48
We're not just going to outright permit conversion of the accessory buildings, we want to have those reviewed by the planning to 01:19:55
look at what are the specific impacts. 01:20:00
Of this existing structure. 01:20:06
What does what impact does that have on the neighbors and how are we going to address those? 01:20:09
It could cover any conversion of the existing, but it's already. 01:20:17
And he he could have played. 01:20:24
Might be difficult to mitigate. 01:20:26
Why would we not want to go that route? 01:20:28
Like why would the Planning Commission not support that? 01:20:35
To me it leaves all of the controls in place to allow for. 01:20:39
The conditions to be right for it and the conditions are right for it. Let me get to that right. 01:20:44
Yeah, and so you have to drop the specific conditions. 01:20:48
They might be twice, so if you're not going to a person, well it's impact based. You have to have conditioning uses are best. 01:20:53
Deny implement conditions can't be migrated. 01:21:02
Are shown to not be able. 01:21:05
There is some arbitrariness. 01:21:09
So we could still go this route here or code that discuss the automatic stand approval and Mr. Kent could still get what he wants 01:21:13
through the conditioned use. 01:21:19
Process if you can show that the. 01:21:25
But the impacts are especially mitigated. 01:21:29
Where you can have any. So another way to address that minimum block size too is you could keep the 10,000 as permitted. 01:21:32
Lots less than 10,000 square feet could be a conditional. 01:21:40
I think that's a good idea, yeah. I think because I think everybody here agrees that. 01:21:46
Right. We don't. 01:21:52
There's no issue with this House, but yet the way we have to write our code. 01:21:55
Can we make a path? 01:22:02
Say, look. 01:22:04
There's exceptions to this that we have to be able to. 01:22:06
Use our best judgment and say, look, the intention was to do this. This doesn't violate any of those intentions, so. 01:22:10
So the logging is still not for away. 01:22:18
That just doesn't get the automatic standard goes through the additional steps to make it happen. 01:22:22
Enough applications, so the Planning Commission then we should reevaluate, we come back and release that requirement and get 01:22:28
another check box. 01:22:32
So how do we say keep to 10,000 feet? And then what would we write into the code? 01:22:40
To allow some flexibility there. 01:22:45
And then you have to write up the conditions or. 01:22:50
Oh, oh, well, there you go. 01:22:57
Yeah, are you guys any conditional use impacts already built in here? 01:23:00
It's pretty generic list that makes a lot of sense. 01:23:04
Do you feel like I mean? 01:23:08
That his situation. 01:23:10
Would be allowed given the current. 01:23:13
Probably. 01:23:15
There's an exiting. There's a door issue. 01:23:17
But that's mitigated. 01:23:24
People ******* out their front door into someone elses backyard where this is below Gray so that might need to be a. 01:23:28
In addition to the languages below, grade exits or entrances because you might have like. 01:23:37
For the entrance, that's probably not going in there, yeah. 01:23:44
Next one. 01:23:54
Bed bath. 01:23:59
OK, so existing is compiled with setbacks letter to standard in our code. 01:24:03
Our code existing code does have an additional 25% set back required for external data use. 01:24:10
The changes by Planning Commission wanted to put a minimum set back of 10 feet on all parcels greater. 01:24:20
Well, that would be. 01:24:30
Oh yeah, so they were, they're drawing the line at 10,000 square foot, so. 01:24:34
At least 10 feet on all parcels and then that would increase as the parcel size. 01:24:38
What up? 01:24:45
I don't think I have the table in here. It's in the. 01:24:48
And the code modifications, but it makes it really clear on the proposed text you see the changes on that 25% column. 01:24:52
Increase from I think it starts at like 5 or 6 feet and it goes 10 feet for the first three and it goes I think to 12 feet. 01:25:02
Will this be another one of those? 01:25:13
This can be this. 01:25:15
Rubber stamp standard attendant. 01:25:17
Should less than that would be a conditional use or is that this be a harder hurdle, the conditional use mitigation blah blah 01:25:19
blah. Yeah, from my point of view that this is a little bit harder because. 01:25:24
Once you start moving those primary structure, the ancillary structure property line. 01:25:29
Usually, inevitably, you're going to get something else that's replacing it. 01:25:35
Swimming pool court. 01:25:39
Where those might be situated elsewhere. 01:25:41
Especially when you had a conflict of the primary building probably having more restrictive setbacks than what the. 01:25:46
Yeah, vice versa, yeah. 01:25:53
Yeah, when you're looking at what this looks like, you're going to have. 01:25:57
He has to push the building away, but you're going to have a 10 foot kind of gutter around your building. They're going to push 01:26:01
it. 01:26:06
Probably into a corner of a yard 10 feet on. 01:26:11
Verse 510 feet on the side. Can it just be used for landscaping? Likely. 01:26:15
But it's it's a pretty significant business. 01:26:23
Especially where you're if you're looking at. 01:26:28
Typical layouts of properties. 01:26:31
It's all backyard, so you have a 25 to 35 foot set back on each rear yard. 01:26:33
And you have increasing distance requirements for additional height. 01:26:40
So some of the staff recommendations. 01:26:47
You could just leave it at the 25%. 01:26:51
Required for externally uses in existing code. 01:26:54
You could. 01:27:01
Consider that you could leave a 10 foot set back on the rear side and then have the side setbacks meet. 01:27:04
The primary structure setbacks. 01:27:12
So that might be. 01:27:15
That makes the Amy. 01:27:17
If you're meeting the primary structure or the lesser of primary structure, set back or MP. 01:27:20
That makes a lot of sense. 01:27:27
Or there might be in this situation where the lot. 01:27:31
May not be impacting the neighbors. 01:27:33
All especially in. 01:27:36
Your neighborhood when you. 01:27:38
Set back doesn't make sense or against that winkle. 01:27:42
That makes sense, right? 01:27:47
They probably you could use process in that situation as well, right if there's if the backside is. 01:27:49
Family cooler 'cause that should be right in all those characteristics, but it might be easier. 01:27:58
Or. 01:28:04
Order in. 01:28:06
Residential. 01:28:08
Could you just say it that way? And and? 01:28:11
Or it could just be that similar process to additional use permit for a. 01:28:14
For building footprint size for an accessory building, those are required to go to a conditional use if they're larger size. 01:28:23
So if you want a. 01:28:30
Set back that's smaller than 10 feet. 01:28:32
So having specific things that. 01:28:38
You can get a conditional use permit. 01:28:45
If you want the various reductions. 01:28:48
Similar to what we had, we had for a larger footprint size. 01:28:54
That makes sense to me, except for where it's a budding, a non residential area. I feel like that's something that we could just 01:28:59
just include because. 01:29:03
That just was like another hurdle and I feel like. 01:29:07
Why would we not? 01:29:10
Give somebody back. 01:29:11
I don't know, maybe you guys have the best definition or is there a reason that's something that we could change just in our 01:29:13
accessory building setbacks overall is. 01:29:17
Because that would be applicable for any A. 01:29:23
Garage. That's a good idea. 01:29:28
If you have a. 01:29:31
Attracting or abutting use, that is. 01:29:33
Now if you already, you already have. 01:29:43
Accessory Accessory. 01:29:50
Buildings. 01:29:53
Now we're just talking about dwelling buildings. 01:29:55
So now if you because connecting the situation, somebody really hasn't out. 01:29:58
Outbuilding. It's not as long just an accessory building. It's right up against the fence line. 01:30:03
I mean, the impact is. 01:30:09
People are having their assessing dwelling unit. 01:30:12
Overlooking someone's empty backyard, but someone already has a. 01:30:15
Garage, right on the back fence line. That's not a dwelling unit. Who cares if you have 10 feet, isn't there? 01:30:19
So we're getting into a lot of weird conditions. 01:30:26
But I think we, I mean like Greg, you still have to come up with what's the river stamp versus what's the conditional use permit. 01:30:29
But yeah, he. 01:30:37
You want to make additional use being overly common when our whole goal is to get out of there. Well, that's what I'm wondering 01:30:39
about. If like it's not residential, then that feels pretty straightforward. And then for the situation as you're talking about, 01:30:45
yeah, so maybe that we're OK with the 10 feet, but then in part of the condition use permit if you look at. 01:30:52
What is it overlooking? 01:30:59
Sure. You know, if it's overlooking a backyard, well, you might have a problem. 01:31:01
When I go closer. 01:31:04
But if you're if you're butting up against an RN zone and it's the parking lot bookings or if you're even up against a. 01:31:06
About any single family home. 01:31:14
Zone, but if they already have their own. 01:31:16
Accessory building. 01:31:19
Who cares? 01:31:22
That kind of setback issue would be applicable for accessory only. Use accessory buildings overall, I think, so we could just put 01:31:29
it into our setback code of accessory buildings overall if they're a budding. 01:31:36
Whatever specific uses of. 01:31:44
These non residential uses those. 01:31:49
Properties could have an accessory building that is. 01:31:52
On a property bank or. 01:31:56
So I think you know the objective. 01:31:59
Yeah, what you can write into code that's rubber stand? Great. 01:32:01
What you think should go to conditional use and. 01:32:05
Provide flexibility without having to ****** up the code. 01:32:08
Does that sound good? 01:32:12
Exactly. 01:32:15
Maximum height. 01:32:30
Existing code for accessory buildings is a 20 foot maximum height. 01:32:33
The changes that the Planning Commission approved was. 01:32:41
They wanted to see the big space only on route. 01:32:45
On parcels that are smaller than half an acre, what's defined as a living space? Bedrooms. OK, so if you have like a game room or 01:32:50
something above the garage that does. 01:32:54
It would be more like that, probably. Living space, yeah. 01:32:59
By the building code center is all concerned. 01:33:17
You can't exclude. 01:33:21
Well, so then are we saying that we can't go above a garage? Really. 01:33:23
Yes. 01:33:30
Unless you bring your structure in far enough. 01:33:33
Edge So first you have a massive lot size really. 01:33:37
Well, of course we. 01:33:41
How do we deal with? 01:33:43
The current code does not. This is. 01:33:47
Changes to bring it down to ground level. 01:33:50
Current code just says 20 feet, same as any accessory building but 20 feet, but it could be up or down. 01:33:53
Yeah, any part of the structure. 01:34:01
So the change is have to be on the ground level. 01:34:04
If you're even, if you're 20 feet, you. 01:34:10
You can still build a 20 foot structure, but you can't have any living space. 01:34:13
In the area, yes. So you can. 01:34:17
Apartment or garage, Yeah. 01:34:20
Unless you move your building in or under factory. 01:34:23
Yeah. 01:34:29
That has a family room above. 01:34:31
And they were trying to prevent that overlooking into. 01:34:37
A little bit of background on the 20 foot height. We spent a lot of time in 2015 to get to that number. 01:34:43
That is just enough. 01:34:49
Upper level story. 01:34:53
It's not a lot of height to get like a second level. 01:34:54
It's just enough to get. 01:34:59
Bonus space up above your garage. 01:35:01
Studio something pretty small with cables. 01:35:04
That was the whole issue with my neighbor Mike. You were when we went to the double. 01:35:08
Bob size because he had blink 48, Maryland 10. 01:35:12
He wanted to put. 01:35:16
Alien sister in a over the garage apartment. 01:35:18
This would cause a problem, at least in terms of rubber stamp. I suppose even he might have had a. 01:35:23
Conditional use because I think his garage. 01:35:29
Was on the. 01:35:31
The circle side, not overlooking a backyard side. 01:35:33
Oh, that's yeah, that's true. 01:35:38
So that's that note on the on the building right there. 01:35:40
A lot of people are. 01:35:45
Want to do any cash? We have some older houses that don't have attached brushes or they're looking for an additional space. It's a 01:35:46
good way to meet parking requirements for the Adu when you're building an additional garage. 01:35:52
Cost effective? It makes sense to add a living unit if you're already building any cash garage. 01:35:59
So that's where the staff recommendation for. 01:36:04
Allowing up to 25 feet. 01:36:08
At 20 feet, people who want to build a garage with the unit above it, they just do a flat roof. 01:36:10
The extra 5 piece typically just adds for that architectural feature of having a history. 01:36:16
You still gotta meet like graduated. 01:36:22
High requirements. 01:36:26
Relationship to the setbacks, right? Her relationship with property life. But yeah, I mean, it seems to me like. 01:36:28
That's the most common. 01:36:34
Use of an Eau you're going to get is. 01:36:37
Put in the nice apartment above the garage as opposed to the. 01:36:40
In the back, but we're still keeping it on larger parcels right this half acre. 01:36:45
Going up, they couldn't recover. It would be on any. 01:36:50
So what would assure the? 01:36:59
Maintaining graduated, Graduated high. 01:37:03
So and the next letter? Dresses. That plan Commission was to reduce the graduated height or accessory buildings. 01:37:06
So we'll get into that on the next one, but that would provide a lot of the control for that. 01:37:15
For the additional rate. 01:37:21
And really, that additional 5 feet is going to be this room. 01:37:22
So it avoids having a flat root structure. 01:37:26
Typically, people don't love. 01:37:30
Yeah, so it's. Yes, it's extra, right? So it's probably more acceptable visual heights than if they built a. 01:37:40
I mean my issue is if they build a. 01:37:53
Eadu. 01:37:56
Like they want to build a garage. 01:37:58
Of a 10,000 foot lot. 01:38:00
They're still going to have block coverage issues and set back issues. It's going to be hard to do anyway, right? 01:38:03
Just because having it. 01:38:10
But if they can, then they can. 01:38:12
Meet all their requirements. 01:38:14
Why would you want to? 01:38:17
Putting the EE 8. 01:38:18
The AU of the garage. 01:38:20
It's a good it's a good use of flash when you have garage that addresses your. We're still only talking about detached garages, 01:38:24
right? Because if it's attached, garage is not external. 01:38:28
Yeah, and then later we get to where the windows are and everything, because that was the other privacy issue that. 01:38:33
So I would agree with staff on that. 01:38:38
On the 25. 01:38:41
And you could still keep all accessory buildings at 20 feet, but that extra 5 foot bonus for the. 01:38:43
You're adding an accessory unit. 01:38:50
So keeping keeping toy. 01:38:56
25 or accessory buildings that have a unit they're going to if they're going to provide housing, right? Yeah. 01:39:01
Yeah, you look at garages today. Maybe you'll have something to build this. 01:39:15
2000 square foot garage but. 01:39:30
Likely 900 square feet, which is. 01:39:32
Let's see, did we hit all the points on that? 01:39:42
I think so. I just want to make sure that I understand. So currently they can go 20, but what you're recommending is 25 for the 01:39:45
pitch group like that's. 01:39:49
Sorry, one text on here. 01:39:59
Looks like we've got what? Three more? Four more? 01:40:02
We can get through them. 01:40:05
Lot coverage, super easy, so we just added. 01:40:08
A reference to lock coverage compliance code. 01:40:12
2nd floor windows. 01:40:16
Our current code did not include any language about second floor windows. 01:40:18
The new changes have. 01:40:23
Address windows on the rear and side property lines for a second floor. 01:40:26
Windows. 01:40:31
So if you have. 01:40:33
Safety cash garage living unit above it on the second floor. 01:40:35
If you're. 01:40:40
Within 10 feet of a property line, then your windows have to be at least six feet off the ground. 01:40:42
Or on the floor of that second, so that accounts for some windows as opposed to. 01:40:49
Yeah. And that that would be applicable just on career anti property. 01:40:57
OK. 01:41:05
I didn't realize that was in there. I'm sorry. That's OK That's going to create a problem with building code compliance you can't 01:41:08
have. 01:41:11
Right. If you have bedrooms, you have to have. 01:41:17
So they might have to find me. 01:41:22
You know, you got to have that, and I think it's maybe it's Windows that open. 01:41:25
So you have to have. 01:41:32
You have to have an honorable window for building code. 01:41:34
That is awesome and I'm just wondering if. 01:41:37
What's the? I think this could probably match the primary structure, so requirements as opposed to being. 01:41:44
And because you've got a primary structure, that's. 01:41:50
No, Messiah, you've gotten a 10 foot right, and those windows don't have to be over 6 feet, right? Right. So can we sort of just 01:41:53
match? 01:41:58
Primary window regulation What do we need to do with ADUS for Windows? 01:42:04
To be different just from the primary structure. The presenters build their house at that point anyways, yeah. 01:42:10
And I'm not sure if we need. 01:42:15
This once we're looking at the graduated height, because if we're only looking at windows around the 2nd floor, what would the 01:42:17
reduced graduated height? It pushes the building, Pushes it back anyway could go that distance anyway, penalizing the Edu. I think 01:42:24
it's an unnecessary rate. 01:42:31
All right. Graduated heights. So currently we don't have any. 01:42:41
Reference to graduated code. 01:42:49
Existing is 8 feet and I think everyone is familiar with my graduated night works. Please explain it. I just want to make sure 01:42:53
that what I yeah so. 01:42:59
You take at the property line, you go up 8 feet, so it's like putting the fence of eight feet on the property line and then it's a 01:43:05
45° angle over from that 8 foot mark. 01:43:10
And that is your intersection point. 01:43:16
So naturally with your angle, the closer your building gets, the shorter it has to be. So you have to move your building way 01:43:19
further. 01:43:23
To increase an eggs, right? 01:43:27
And is that really standard code? 01:43:29
Across most like. 01:43:32
Is that very unique holiday or is that something? 01:43:34
It was. 01:43:40
Mill Creek copied our code. 01:43:44
For their Marcus residential. 01:43:47
Building is normally traditionally when it's called. 01:43:56
What's the difference between this and the graduated height of a regular house? So the regular house would be 8 feet. Proposed 01:44:02
language reduces that to six feet for an accessory building or for a. 01:44:10
Accessory. 01:44:18
So you can see the difference that that makes on. I gave a couple of examples. 01:44:21
If you have a. 01:44:27
Accessory building that has a 5 foot set back. 01:44:29
And that six foot graduated height. 01:44:32
Your intersection point is 11 feet. 01:44:35
So you're 11 or single level? 01:44:38
With that, so you'd have to move further away. 01:44:42
To get up to a second floor anyway. 01:44:46
So if you want 18 feet of wall height for two levels. 01:44:48
Your structure is going to be 12 feet off the property line, naturally. 01:44:53
So it just keeps you from getting too intrusive to your neighbor. So is that more restrictive than if it was? 01:44:58
Yes. 01:45:07
To be the same if that six wouldn't have to be, would just be 8 to 8. 01:45:09
Is it necessary? 01:45:14
So did the staff have an issue with that? 01:45:18
I think that was something that they brought up. 01:45:21
The geometry doesn't work for these smaller buildings. For bigger buildings it works because you have bigger setbacks. 01:45:27
So because it's. 01:45:33
One foot up for one foot in. 01:45:36
If you have the five foot set back. 01:45:39
Comes out to 11 feet. 01:45:41
That's barely your first floor. 01:45:43
That's fairly a garage. 01:45:46
Usually the top of your garage is 13 feet. 01:45:49
So then you start immediately moving it away just to make your garage work. 01:45:52
But that is also a very common complaint that we get from people, neighboring residents of oh, there's this really big structure, 01:45:58
so. 01:46:03
For the when we back up the week. 01:46:09
Talked about the. 01:46:12
The foot. 01:46:15
Right as the rubber stamp. 01:46:17
And unless that is additional use is that we decided on that one. I can't track. What do we decide on that? 01:46:19
Anything closer is initially okay, so then we want this to. 01:46:26
How to be synchronous with that right, So if the Planning Commission approves something closer? 01:46:32
This will still apply in very much restrict the height of that building, so we probably want to have. 01:46:40
The rubber stamp synchronous, but then the conditional uses. 01:46:48
Then the geometric. 01:46:53
They will be so hard to administer in this kind of a format because. 01:47:01
The law requires we have objective standards. 01:47:10
To guide your condition to use and. It says that if the conditions can be substantially mitigated, they're entitled to the 01:47:14
condition. 01:47:18
Right. And that. 01:47:22
Substantial mitigate means is. 01:47:24
Not certain enough for me to feel like you're going to get results that are. 01:47:28
A predictable BE. 01:47:34
Truly mitigating. 01:47:37
In most cases and I think you could end up with a lot of challenges on that, so. 01:47:39
I think you would look. 01:47:44
Better at ordinances that have exception standards. 01:47:45
Like your set back is 10 feet unless. 01:47:49
Your Adu is. 01:47:52
Bad enough against it not having the structure. 01:47:54
You know your set back on the side is. 01:47:59
15 feet. 01:48:01
You're going to have, I think you're looking, more exceptions in the air conditioning uses. 01:48:08
If you want to have. 01:48:12
Enforceable ordinance. 01:48:14
That will work. 01:48:16
And that's hard. It's going to be complex, but I think that's a better approach than conditional use. So when you talk about the 01:48:18
simple standard. 01:48:21
Rubber stamp or. 01:48:25
I think instead of conditional use approach you probably be talking about, This is where you get a rubber stamp. 01:48:28
Here's the exceptions. So we can push into some of those areas or go up or. 01:48:33
Whatever that might be. 01:48:39
Right. So then that backs up. 01:48:41
Instead of doing the initial use for the less than 10. 01:48:45
We've got to delineate what are the circumstances where you can go less than 10. I think that's a better approach for you, which 01:48:50
is, which is essentially just the way to stack it in the 1st place. Sure, the 25% instead of the 10. 01:48:56
You want to backpack that then? 01:49:04
Go back to the. 01:49:06
1st we were thinking about doing that. 10 is how it counted uninhabitable. 01:49:09
Scenario. I mean, there are different things you can do, yeah, that's one obviously, right. 01:49:14
Garage sort of on their back property line. I want to put an Edu back there. 01:49:20
You know it's not having the structure. It's not. 01:49:26
Looks like like. 01:49:31
I think the additional use process because the legal standard is. 01:49:35
Unless the conditions can be substantially mitigated, it has to be granted. 01:49:38
You're going to have problems administering that overtime. 01:49:42
I think you will. 01:49:45
End up with the situation where Planning Commission motion that looks something to say no. 01:49:47
But legally they're going to be entitled because it's not. 01:49:53
Holy made it. She actually made it. We don't know what that means. Presumptions generally run. 01:49:56
To the property owners and free use of land and not the regulating agency, I just think it gets to be. 01:50:01
Less secure method of. 01:50:07
So you open up the conditional use door, it's just going to be opened and I really feel like it's going to end up being that way. 01:50:10
Do you feel like that's also the case with the box size? 01:50:15
Because we had talked about using that, so. 01:50:21
If you can have any of you. 01:50:24
10,000 feet. If you're less than that, it's a conditional use. 01:50:27
He's like, that's the same thing where we need to. 01:50:30
If you can set objective standards for conditional use. In that case, I like it a little better than some of the dimensional 01:50:33
controls. 01:50:36
But it still presents the same kind of legal problem. 01:50:40
It's not any different in the analysis, big picture. 01:50:43
And ordinances with all those exceptions are hard to write. 01:50:47
From the state's point of view. 01:50:53
They're considering accessory dwelling units. 01:50:55
Across the world by right. 01:50:58
Do you think cities are going to start moving toward conditional situations are going to be targeted? 01:51:00
Yeah, they do. And I've heard no. 01:51:05
I haven't heard any discussion of the external Adu stuff. 01:51:08
I heard whispers of it. 01:51:13
The same year discussion. 01:51:16
But I have heard much about the external. 01:51:18
So we're looking at. 01:51:23
Exception could be. 01:51:28
That it's the hard. 01:51:30
Building footprint size. 01:51:33
So, oh, that makes. 01:51:35
Yeah, so currently. 01:51:36
You have building footprint, all those smaller properties for accessory buildings and get 700 or 750 square feet. 01:51:39
So they no conditional use. 01:51:46
Permit for an accessory building size. 01:51:49
So you're it's hard limited to this. 01:51:51
On those lots, so that would meet Mr. Kent. 01:51:56
Exception, but it would also not create the conditional. 01:51:59
So you could pay a specific square footage for externally use on a lot smaller than 10,000 square feet. So that's setting a 01:52:04
standard instead of having it go to a conditional use. 01:52:09
So back to this one. 01:52:17
Are you saying that the six? 01:52:19
Graduated high. 01:52:23
Isn't workable. 01:52:25
I don't think it is, architecturally. 01:52:26
I think it should be the same standard that is, yeah, for the rest of the prime rank regular. 01:52:36
But it still limits the height to 25 feet, right? And as they graduated and usually those R ones are. 01:52:42
What, 32 feet? 01:52:49
What's in our one height? 01:52:51
What is it the same for? 01:52:55
15,035. 01:53:01
But regardless, that's going to be capped at 25. 01:53:05
Well, we just have to. 01:53:11
The planning would have to go against Planning Commission recommendation, 16 said they said look. 01:53:13
Fake things it's not. 01:53:19
They were trying to accomplish. 01:53:22
Making sure that it's. 01:53:28
Put in prayer, Ashley. 01:53:30
So the the 80s can still do that? 01:53:33
Because that's what we run into, particularly if we. 01:53:38
Can. 01:53:49
With the 8 foot intersection. 01:53:50
Is that an additional? 01:53:53
Yeah, just their recognition is to have a. 01:53:56
Yeah. 01:54:07
All right, this is the section on conversion of existing accessory buildings. 01:54:17
Yes, last one. 01:54:24
So. 01:54:27
When we looked at it and said OK, here are some potential issues that existing. 01:54:28
Accessory buildings may have that we need to. 01:54:34
They don't hear any standards. 01:54:37
Will your accessory building that you're converting these standards? 01:54:39
If not, how are they going to be addressed? 01:54:43
And Planning Commission. 01:54:48
They were wary. 01:54:51
Converting. They recognize that there's probably a lot of. 01:54:53
Measures that are right next to property lines. 01:54:57
Solid county work. There's much smaller than what they are currently. 01:55:02
So they just said, you know, right? 01:55:06
We're not comfortable with. 01:55:09
Temporary existing existing accessory structures. 01:55:11
So we didn't even get into discussing. 01:55:15
Any of the standards that were. 01:55:19
So you sat you basically saying if. 01:55:22
You've got if you've got an accessory building out there. 01:55:25
If it doesn't meet the standards we've discussed previously, it can't be if there's no exceptions. 01:55:29
They don't have an entitled right to convert that to grandfather. 01:55:34
So, but if you're requiring that they need to set back requirements, then what was the planning commissions concern? 01:55:40
So there was. 01:55:49
Because you said you've got to meet holidays so existing, I see what you're seeing. Structures might not meet the setbacks. 01:55:52
So the standards that are proposed in the. 01:56:01
Code or if it doesn't meet the setback standards that you have to provide mitigation. 01:56:05
With landscaping. 01:56:11
Or other? 01:56:14
So how about the Windows? 01:56:15
Adding now adding. 01:56:18
And that would be another problem issue. 01:56:21
I wonder if we do. 01:56:33
Maybe put a pin in this one? 01:56:34
Hurt now because it does feel like it could be more complicated and move ahead with the other ones. 01:56:38
I don't know or. 01:56:44
Some of them like that are. 01:56:48
Really straightforward, easy. But then you get into your. 01:56:49
Bigger ones are. 01:56:54
Setbacks. 01:56:57
So which ones do you cover? Spouse? 01:57:00
Which ones do you feel like are straightforward? 01:57:02
Once we're on there and just the clean up language, those are. 01:57:07
That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. I'd be OK with that. 01:57:11
The conversion is a little bit. 01:57:17
For here. 01:57:20
That might I just having a larger discussion about here standards are here. Are there some sort of standards that were not? 01:57:22
They were talking about what exceptions would be willing to make to rights. 01:57:31
Building it next. 01:57:36
EADU, right. Relative to converting, I think I'm OK with the Planning Commission. 01:57:38
Make exceptions for existing structure you got to meet. 01:57:45
Standard for dwelling unit regardless of what's already there. 01:57:48
Are there examples where you're thinking that this one should? 01:57:55
We do have applications like that. 01:57:59
Where somebody has a shed that they want to convert. 01:58:04
Their conversion is going to be small building code standards, but. 01:58:08
Looking at a dwelling unit impact that might have smaller setbacks than what the standards for a new accessory. 01:58:13
Right. 01:58:20
Using a sarcastic example, this would be existing, but would be converted even though it's already set up as living space. 01:58:21
Some people may have like a school house or. 01:58:28
Studio office that they've already built, but it's not. 01:58:32
They can't use. 01:58:36
Living space or a rental units? 01:58:38
Why would we want to approve that if it doesn't need? 01:58:42
The standards that we're putting in place right here. 01:58:46
And that's, that's what what we looked at, OK. 01:58:49
Converting versus. 01:58:53
Maybe we just previously the standards on what are existing. 01:58:55
Is and that. 01:59:00
Addresses the problem in it. 01:59:03
Different way. 01:59:04
You know what? I worry about someone. 01:59:05
With a plan who? 01:59:10
Wants to have a plan for an E Adu. 01:59:13
But that doesn't need standards, so they build the building. It's just an accessory building that's not a dwelling unit. Only then 01:59:16
use the exceptions and do it in phases. So. 01:59:23
I know that there's at least one permit where. 01:59:30
They wanted to do an accessory dwelling unit, but. 01:59:34
Their foundation was born much closer than that extra 25% that's required. 01:59:39
So that would disqualify them so it has a better kitchen. 01:59:44
All the space that you have for like a rental unit, so. 01:59:49
Likely use it for some sort of temporary living space, but. 01:59:52
It doesn't mean the standards by. 01:59:58
So they're conversion incorrect, yeah? 02:00:04
Conversion is. 02:00:07
I think it is. You can convert it. 02:00:09
I think we need to address it. I'm just wondering if maybe not right now. 02:00:16
Yeah, especially if all of your concerns are set back. 02:00:22
Highly massing related. 02:00:26
To use the existing building then. 02:00:28
So get get it done. 02:00:34
Comfortable with right now. 02:00:36
Get codified and then if we want to revisit this piece of it later and do that, it's unfortunate that that's the most 02:00:38
approachable, most affordable way to create. 02:00:43
Right, I know that it bypasses all the concerns we're trying to put in code right now. 02:00:51
And allows a path for future, bypassing it by calling just an accessory unless then converting it to. Unless it works not. 02:00:57
Allow it for structures to. 02:01:07
You know, as an accessory that we'll go. 02:01:09
You know to catch the grandfather case, anything that would build after that implementation. 02:01:11
Where it's, you know, then you don't have. 02:01:16
People trying to workout. 02:01:19
Questions. Do we? 02:01:22
We want how much Grandfather would be doing. 02:01:24
I mean, that's the point, yeah. 02:01:28
Well, or do we allow it? 02:01:30
Can meet all of the setbacks if they have, so if they have a. 02:01:34
Situation where they meet all the other requirements, we can go ahead with that and then they have all these other exceptions, so 02:01:38
we don't allow for those for now. 02:01:42
Could be an incremental approach. You already need the standards, then let's go ahead with that. But if you don't meet the 02:01:47
standards, let's just. 02:01:51
I don't know which I think that. 02:01:56
Issue is converting buildings that don't. 02:02:00
Standard that we don't have to look at and convert it, they said. To meet the safety requirements, the pipe requirement. 02:02:04
Something in place that violates setbacks who graduated high? 02:02:15
Then they want to convert it. I don't think we want to allow that, do we? 02:02:20
So increasing with the implementation of when the current or. 02:02:23
Have you ever seen that like when the existing code percent of X because you'll have Salt Lake County code which is. 02:02:29
Some of those are one foot step back or less up until the 60s, so whatever. 02:02:35
Our existing setbacks. 02:02:41
Went into place. 02:02:43
That could be a comparable place of. 02:02:44
OK, this is the known set back. 02:02:47
Can you say if you qualify under all current setbacks? 02:02:51
Go ahead. 02:02:58
They just might not need the extra 25%. 02:03:03
For. 02:03:08
That would be one that's like. 02:03:11
OK. Is that something that's? 02:03:13
That's usually like a difference of one to two feet. 02:03:16
If it already needs that additional 25%. 02:03:19
But that could be like one bigger cat if. 02:03:25
If you're going to conversion. 02:03:28
And it just needs the standard accessory building. 02:03:30
You're going to mitigate that? 02:03:37
Encroachment of one to two feet. 02:03:39
By. 02:03:43
Different conditionally use world though, right? 02:03:52
Not if you put specific standards in. 02:03:56
So do we have enough to? 02:04:00
Update what we have to bring it to a vote. 02:04:04
I mean, I think what we need to do is probably make the update based on the input you've received. 02:04:10
It great back to work session going through it again. 02:04:15
A little bit on a few things and then we can, because we can kind of come back and maybe think about some of this a little bit to 02:04:20
talk about again on the 25th. 02:04:25
Look at what updates you make based on the input you've received on all these individual items. 02:04:30
And then decide if we want to. 02:04:35
If it's ready to go to vote or not. But again, I don't think there's a big hurry to get this, I vote, so I think we should make 02:04:38
sure we're really comfortable with this because. 02:04:41
It goes into place. I think it's to generate a lot. 02:04:46
And I think staff needs to think about it too, like. 02:04:49
What problems might this create for us? Do we need to make any tweaks before we? 02:04:53
Put it out for a vote. Is it after everything we've talked about today, if you guys have any concerns that you think of later 02:04:58
where you're like? 02:05:02
That you might want to consider these things I would be interested in knowing. 02:05:07
What those are with what we've recommended, OK, yeah, I mean, as long as they're not really substantial. 02:05:10
Go against the original application. I think we can do that. 02:05:17
Things we have to go back to applying on that last one, I would suggest. 02:05:20
Doing a secular traffic the way that you were thinking to accommodate those were built before that happens one to two foot kind of 02:05:25
a thing. 02:05:28
Bringing up like that, we could. 02:05:31
How many times we should be able to burn through everything relatively quickly? I think we have time to discuss that one. I agree 02:05:33
more, but but do it give give us what you think about, I guess that's what I would say. 02:05:38
Yeah, I think we can get. 02:05:44
I think we got a lot of clarification on issues that we had between staff and Planning Commission here. 02:05:45
Finalized, right. So we can. 02:05:51
Red lined into the code. 02:05:54
And review it again on the 25th and then. 02:05:56
See if there's any tweak we want to make and then work towards getting into a vote, whatever that is. 02:05:59
It's the 2nd grade if it's the. 02:06:04
June or 16th, right. I mean, I don't think there's any Russian we want to be right. Just one question. Overall, the premises 02:06:07
conditional use permits. 02:06:11
For situations are you? 02:06:16
Now or let's. 02:06:18
I want to follow Todd's advice regarding We'd rather get exceptions. 02:06:20
Into the language rather than the option of a conditional, use. 02:06:27
As a preference. 02:06:32
And I recognize we don't want to create law around anyone person but. 02:06:34
Would we meet Mr. Kemp's? 02:06:37
With what we've talked about today would. 02:06:40
He'd be able to. 02:06:42
Yeah, I'm going to take the overall purpose is. 02:06:44
That perspective of. 02:06:47
Opportunity for adding an external Edu. 02:06:50
That is contextual based on a property, so it's. 02:06:53
If you have a single family home. 02:06:58
How can you build an external EU? 02:07:01
Even if your property is smaller compared to somebody that was larger. 02:07:05
You just practice proportionately and I think that's. 02:07:09
Looking at it from. 02:07:14
Perfect. Great kind of perspective giving that opportunity to any president. 02:07:15
Once you pursue it and make it work, so having standards in a way. Thank you. 02:07:20
For the work on this. 02:07:34
Hey Tina, you are you turned into a pumpkin? 02:07:39
Yeah, this is a little past my bedtime, but I just wanted to share. 02:07:47
Where budget preparation is at this point. 02:07:52
And address a question that bothering him had asked that our retreat, which was. 02:07:57
Let's think about that kind of study. 02:08:04
Idea And how does that relate to this year's budget? 02:08:10
So I'm looking for some feedback on some specific questions from you. 02:08:14
And just want to share again, this is a chart we looked at in our retreat. 02:08:19
About the slowdown of sales tax growth. 02:08:25
So we've had tremendous growth over the last. 02:08:30
Well, since the middle of fiscal 20. 02:08:34
And that has slowed down with another month of data. 02:08:39
Representing January. 02:08:43
We've seen that slowdown continue. So we were within 10,000 dollars of our budget projection. 02:08:46
And at this point, we're still showing trending a little under our budget. 02:08:53
So based on the direction you gave me at the retreat and whole thing sales tax. 02:08:57
Study for next year's budgets. 02:09:02
The next slide just shows you where the CPI has been. 02:09:06
Since the last time you increased taxes in June of 21. 02:09:13
So looking at year over year? 02:09:21
June 21 to May 22, that was 8.3%. 02:09:25
CPI Growth. 02:09:32
4.1% from June of 22 to May of 23 and then so far June 23 through March. 02:09:34
Of 24, we're at about 2.9%. If we continue for the April, May and June, we'll probably end up about 4% growth. 02:09:43
Pretty sounding 3 year 15% increase in inflation. A little shocked just looking at month by month calculations. So Bureau of Labor 02:09:54
Statistics has another tool that lets you compare. 02:10:02
What would? 02:10:11
$1000. 02:10:13
Bought you in a particular month. 02:10:15
Compared to current day and that. 02:10:18
Just a little bit more, So 1000, sorry. OK, $1000 in June of 21 you need. 02:10:23
$11149 to have the same impact, which is 15%. 02:10:34
So that's where we are over three years in terms of inflation. So hang on to all of that data for a moment as I show you where we 02:10:41
are. 02:10:46
In terms of preliminary revenue, so I started with the approved budget. 02:10:54
For this year of just. 02:10:59
Slightly under $21 million. 02:11:02
Please note this is not comprehensive but just giving you an idea of where we are right now. 02:11:06
You see the sales tax increase and transportation sales tax increase. We are seeing a slight increase in transient room taxes. 02:11:14
We've added another hotel and we're having some balance back in. 02:11:21
Our existing hotels, I think that will be about $50,000. 02:11:28
Our Class C distribution, which went down slightly, seems to be rebounding, so I think we can. 02:11:32
And that's gas tax money. I think we can increase that by about $200,000. 02:11:40
That I'm looking at about $200,000 in interest income and it's just. 02:11:46
Given that's a. 02:11:52
Flip side of the interchange. 02:11:54
I'm glad you borrowed what we did. And so it's nice to just recognize this. So 100,000 in interest income and then we have, at 02:11:58
least at this point, segregated our Class C. 02:12:04
Revenue in a different PKF account and so I think it will be about 175 listing. 02:12:14
We're seeing additional. 02:12:23
Pardon me? 02:12:25
So we get that's a great question on our bond, I think we were under. 02:12:28
Toll. 02:12:34
We're seeing additional facilities rental. 02:12:39
City Hall rentals, I think we can add 10,000 there. More people are switching to Google Fiber and we get 2% of that revenue per 02:12:44
agreement. 02:12:48
We had budgeted previously about 20,000 and it's coming in closer to 60, so that next year. 02:12:54
She returned to traffic school, small increase there and then I'm recognizing that public health grant on the operational side 02:13:01
that you approved earlier this evening. 02:13:06
So overall, I think that's about $600,000 in general fund revenue increases. 02:13:12
You want to go to the next slide. 02:13:21
OK, South side. 02:13:24
That's it. 02:13:32
That's right. That's right. 02:13:38
So sharing some changes that we're anticipating at this point. 02:13:41
Paul mentioned the increase of 6.7%. 02:13:48
Increase of 6 .7% in UFA. 02:13:53
We don't have a firm number yet, but just 6.7% based on our calculations. 02:14:02
Just under 200,000. 02:14:08
You'll remember we made a change earlier this year and how we're providing Emergency Management. 02:14:11
So this reflects the termination of that contract and the additional part time that he's about to actually saving, so that $8000. 02:14:17
A big number? 02:14:27
Next is what we're projecting for ADP increase. 02:14:29
And that is, again, not firm. 02:14:36
But a calculation A calculated increase in just under $800,000. 02:14:40
Is that based on 9/9 percent, based on the 10%, But I backed out our use of because if you just look at our budget number, that 02:14:46
reflects A reduction based on our use of fund balance last year. So this is. 02:14:54
This is total. 02:15:02
The cost of our contract would have been before that unbalance. 02:15:06
Usage and then the cost of our new contract. 02:15:11
I mean can we apply fund balance to that number? So yes, but you know one of the concerns we have. 02:15:15
Because we don't know how. 02:15:29
Our actual employees may end up shifting. 02:15:32
We need to have reserves. 02:15:36
If if we need to. 02:15:39
Make adjustments for for people departing and so that really comes in. 02:15:42
I wish we were in a different position to know what that use might be, but we're not. And so I'm trying to be conservative, I 02:15:48
think. 02:15:52
And I'm hoping the next. 02:15:57
I agree. That's the hard part, the compensated absences that we have to keep in reserve, so if somebody leaves, we pay on their 02:16:03
vacation. 02:16:07
You know, and then 25% are sick. 02:16:12
So if somebody does leave, even if somebody left and went to the county, let's say the county is just announced that they will 02:16:14
honor their Sydney balances based on the 25% whatever they have 80 over so. 02:16:21
I'm not. 02:16:30
I don't know I need. 02:16:32
It's really hard to say. 02:16:33
I think a lot of the people here at holiday are staying and I don't know that I would. 02:16:35
Anticipate many. 02:16:40
But we just don't know. That's a hard part, I mean. 02:16:44
I could have had people go with it. 02:16:47
You know and and. 02:16:49
It could really bring the contact. 02:16:52
How many new seats, you know, new positions that the county had to hire for what this changed? 02:16:55
Right now they're saying 87. 02:17:02
874874 02:17:06
Yeah, they're not going to get there. That's a Yeah, that's a whole other. 02:17:10
We need about. 02:17:15
Half of those to go over. 02:17:16
To keep full staffing in place in EPD. 02:17:20
Which case question whether that thing could happen? I think there are bigger issues going to be. 02:17:23
Being stuck with 10 or 15 Fdes that we can't find spots for. 02:17:31
Forcing the, I mean basically, you know, starting to talk to them about you need to go to the Sheriff's Office, you know? 02:17:38
Right. 02:17:44
But yes, I don't. But we see that. Yeah, we don't know. But I think what you're saying is you'd rather. 02:17:48
You'd rather keep that power dry. 02:17:54
Until that issue clarifies. 02:17:56
And hopefully, hopefully we'll have some more clarification in the next few weeks and I can reduce that number from 76 to. 02:17:59
686, yeah. Yeah. 02:18:10
But in terms of the overall budget picture, it's not huge. What was that bottom line number? 02:18:14
So the bottom line of what our delta is. 02:18:21
Is that what you mean, 48? Yeah. So that's what I'm showing at this point because the difference. 02:18:25
Just a couple of changes I want to highlight for you. 02:18:33
In terms of our overall retirement? 02:18:37
System changes for most employees. 02:18:43
We're seeing a reduction in the retirement payments we make on our employees. 02:18:47
As a city, about $21. 02:18:53
It's because the system it has grown and is healthier than it was a year ago and so are actually already has been reduced. 02:18:56
In all of our systems. 02:19:07
The only caveat to that is that this is just a bit of history about our retirement systems, but employees that were invested 02:19:10
before July 1 of 20. 02:19:16
11 or part of the system called Sherwin and that is just straight pension, 2% per year. 02:19:23
Kind of based on a. 02:19:31
Employees hired after that they have a choice. They can either choose a. 02:19:33
401K option. 02:19:38
Or they can choose what is called a hybrid system that is a little bit tension, a little bit 401K. 02:19:41
And for those employees that are in the hybrid system? 02:19:48
Our portion is going to decrease, but. 02:19:54
You know those employees are going to be required to contribute. 02:19:57
To their own pension system. 02:20:02
This is the although the. 02:20:07
Rules have been in place since 2011. This is the first time they're going to work harder to contribute. That affects 10 of our 02:20:09
employees. 02:20:13
And so whatever increase we provide to them. 02:20:20
At this point. 02:20:25
They'll need to go and upper Senate. 02:20:26
Did any of those 10 fall within that one year window? Yeah, four of them. So we're talking to folks individually. I've sent out 02:20:32
information to employees and haven't gotten a lot of questions about it. 02:20:40
It's pretty small increase but I just wanted to highlight it for you because. 02:20:49
Legislative bodies across the state are trying to grapple with this because it creates this. 02:20:55
Inequity. There's a lot of inequity in ret. 02:21:00
Depending on when you were hired. 02:21:05
But. 02:21:08
There are a couple of solutions that folks have looked at. 02:21:11
One is you give. 02:21:14
An additional 1% just to those Tier 2 hybrid employees? 02:21:16
Which I think then would create a whole other problem with your compensation system. 02:21:23
The other option people have looked at is something we already do, which is provide a match for everyone up to 5% in your 401K. So 02:21:28
if people are contributing to their 401K will match it. 02:21:34
And that's something we already do. 02:21:42
So from my perspective I wouldn't recommend any changes, but you may be hearing about this issue from colleagues and just wanted 02:21:44
to. 02:21:48
Next policy that I'd love some guidance on is. 02:21:56
A cost of living adjustment? What's an appropriate level? 02:22:02
What I've included right now is a 4% cost of living adjustment. 02:22:05
And looking at other cities. 02:22:12
You know, that looks like the range people are looking at, somewhere between 3 and 6%. 02:22:15
Combined. 02:22:22
Merits in many cases are automatic. Yeah, so like. 02:22:30
Cottonwood Heights, Midvale Wolf Have Merits. 02:22:39
Have a 2% merit, so every year you stay work at 2% and then they have colas. 02:22:42
And when I asked them who doesn't get married? 02:22:48
They basically say. 02:22:51
Everybody gets married. 02:22:54
So merit and cola are the same. So they say, well, we're only doing it. 02:22:55
3% cola. 02:23:00
2% merit, right. So you're getting 5%. 02:23:02
And so I consider them to be saying we don't do merit in all of it. 02:23:06
So I think 4% is going to be kind of the. 02:23:12
Landing spot most of we're going to be on some 85% with merits and. 02:23:17
Just kind of imagine inflation exactly. It seems really consistent. 02:23:23
Do we do zero merit period across the board like if there's if there's certain but we didn't market adjustment periodic but not 02:23:28
merit which is the automatic year, an extra year that's one more year of experience to get tax? 02:23:35
So we have in terms of market adjustments, I've just included a placeholder. 02:23:43
Of 30,000 as we looked at our employees. Broad strokes. 02:23:50
Across the board, for the most part. 02:23:55
We have we're right on money for most of the missions. 02:23:58
We have a couple of exceptions that we'll talk about next. 02:24:03
Next week, but that is just a placeholder number in that subject to. 02:24:08
I think we've done a better job of staying on top of that and trying to. We made some pretty big adjustments the last few years of 02:24:16
people that we thought were out of. 02:24:20
Out of range and so now it's just more of. 02:24:25
Maintaining that. 02:24:29
And then see what happens in the market with certain positions. It's a tough market. 02:24:30
We've done a pretty good job with that. 02:24:36
Health insurance changes that. That increases just under 5%. 02:24:40
So our share of that increase is 21. 02:24:46
On the other side I'm showing based on the work of both. 02:24:52
Justice and Joe in advancing her GIS. 02:25:00
I'm pausing that position that you had funded for GIS and this last year and shouldn't action there and then kind of on the flip 02:25:05
side assuming that we're. 02:25:10
We're likely to move forward with the spring lighting, I am assuming. 02:25:17
Seven months. 02:25:22
Of an additional parks and facility. 02:25:23
Likely to be hired for. 02:25:26
Staff, We're staff there. 02:25:30
At this point, I really think we are something John and I have talked about is that if, if. 02:25:39
That. 02:25:46
That would change. That might be a market adjustment. 02:25:50
But at this point, I think we're comfortable holding off. 02:25:59
So overall. 02:26:05
Again, brought strokes. I don't have anything programmed. And yet for I guess we were to leave the still thing we needed to rent 02:26:08
space. There are other things, other changes. 02:26:13
An additional, and it just occurred to me, is. 02:26:20
I think. 02:26:25
At an additional 5 ish $1000 for post transfer to the Arts Council for some content series that's just based on information. Love 02:26:28
to give a sense of whether the council is supported with that and that would increase as well. 02:26:36
But. 02:26:45
That's kind of where we are on the expense side and that creates a gap revenue to expenses of about 150. 02:26:47
So you kind of over like detailed, but if you're looking big picture 10,000 feet if somebody'd. 02:26:56
If I need to explain in under a minute to somebody. 02:27:03
Why we're talking about? 02:27:06
Whatever I mean, to summarize it, it seems to me that inflation. 02:27:10
And the restructuring of up? 02:27:16
If I give those answers, that feels like things that people can get their hands around, but I want to make sure that that's I 02:27:19
think that's right. And that is exactly how I phrase the next part of the conversation. 02:27:25
Which is what we do about this cap so. 02:27:32
There are some choices that you could look at. 02:27:37
If you didn't want to look at an increase to international inflation, you could look at a decrease in our transfer, our ongoing 02:27:41
transfer capital projects fund. 02:27:47
Last year we transferred, in the current year we transferred about $1.2 million. You could look at reducing that. We have a 02:27:53
healthy fund balance and capital projects. 02:27:58
We have a number of projects lined up, but you could pause that transfer or reduce that transfer. 02:28:03
You could use general fund fund balance. I wouldn't recommend that, but that is an option that's available to you. 02:28:11
We could look at some expense side reductions. 02:28:18
I'm not going to get very far with that, but, you know, maybe we could, we could postpone. 02:28:21
Some studies there are. 02:28:27
For a few pockets we could look at, I don't think we'd get much beyond. 02:28:30
$150,000 that's kind of the range I think we could look at without. 02:28:36
Looking at staff, but that option is better available to you. 02:28:41
Or we could look at a. 02:28:46
A heart attack increase. 02:28:50
So we talked about the inflation rate being about 15%. 02:28:53
That's accumulated over three years. It is. 02:29:01
So you could look at it strictly from an inflation standpoint. 02:29:04
You could look at it from a public safety standpoint, so if you were. 02:29:09
Some cities, and I think Mill Creek is an example of a city that does this, that ties their property tax. 02:29:23
To their UK contribution. 02:29:30
So you could look at it strictly from that percentage that would be about a 10%. 02:29:32
So basically their property tax is. 02:29:42
Is tied directly to you. 02:29:46
So as that. 02:29:49
Dollar per dollar or percentage per percentage. 02:29:51
I don't know the answer to it. I think it's dollar for dollar. I think it's whatever the dollar because if you look at our 02:29:55
property tax right now, it would about. 02:29:59
Align with DPD card, so that's their justification. So. 02:30:04
They'll go out every year for truth in taxation and. 02:30:10
And increase their property tax by that percent, 6% or 8% or 10%. 02:30:14
But in this case, over a three-year period, they would probably have raised their property taxes. 02:30:19
25% fifteen. 02:30:24
Details going to have to offer 40% tax increase. 02:30:27
Government that the. 02:30:31
Philosophy. 02:30:32
But 48 percent, 40%, yeah, because ours is 50% after 20 years. 02:30:36
Yeah. We've only had one and it was 50 that was the 50%. The other. The other piece to this is. 02:30:42
When we went through the whole process. 02:30:50
Tax increase with our residents. 02:30:53
The consultants basically said. 02:30:56
Look, we think the proper way to do that and the tech and who's the watchdogs, Taxpayers Association actually worked our tax 02:31:02
increase, believe it or not. 02:31:08
But they said really the way we'd like you to do this is not the way you're doing that. It's every three or four or five years 02:31:14
still out because property tax is a revenue based system, so. 02:31:19
It stays flat until you go through a truth in taxation. 02:31:25
So they would rather have you do something like this, which we haven't done. 02:31:29
Since we raised taxes because. 02:31:33
We had such, we had such growth in our sales tax that we just didn't feel justified in going out and asking. 02:31:36
For more property types of that use so that's part of it. So, but I think Gene is right. 02:31:43
We could bite the bullet this year and say hey. 02:31:48
Understand inflation's been high. It's tough, but we've got. 02:31:51
Issues we're trying to address. 02:31:56
And funding ongoing expenses using general fund dollars, even though we have a healthy fund balance rather. 02:31:58
Is not really the way you should operate. You should. 02:32:07
Under ongoing with ongoing revenues. 02:32:13
We also have a look at our capital improvement budget. I mean, we could reduce our capital. 02:32:16
Look at our capital improvements and say we're just not going to be able to do as much. 02:32:21
Which is actually what got us into this problem in the 1st place, because. 02:32:25
We ended up robbing that account to balance our budget for 20 years. So deferred maintenance essentially, right? Yeah. The other 02:32:29
issue too is political and how people feel about the next year is going to be an election year. 02:32:34
And then you have to go out for property tax and somebody uses that as ammunition, which I don't think is really proper, but. 02:32:41
Yeah, so anyway, So what does? 02:32:49
In terms of a sensitivity analysis, what? 02:32:53
What is a 5% increase block? 02:32:56
Generate. That's a great question. So I look I so 7 1/2% generates about 5:50. So a 700. I'm sorry, a 7.5% increase in copy taxes 02:33:00
across citywide only generates. 02:33:08
$508,000 property tax is not that big. What does that translate into? Like a different property value? 02:33:16
Like so if you have a. 02:33:26
You know $500,000 house for two point $500 house and I haven't looked at it like that. I certainly can. We did during the the last 02:33:28
cycle we looked at the impact half. 02:33:34
As much as you think. 02:33:41
I feel like. 02:33:44
The time to do it. 02:33:46
Single digits as a percentage, Yeah, I agree with that. More often than less frequent being up in the 15 and 20. 02:33:49
Frequently and if you guys, most people know about the UPD transition and that's going on and I feel like. 02:33:58
People people want to fund their police to me like. 02:34:06
That's an easy sell. And the people who are most upset about taxes are also tend to be people who are most willing to pay their 02:34:09
police officers, like when you look from a political perspective. So I feel like. 02:34:14
There's a lot of. 02:34:19
And I'd rather do this. We should be doing this every three or four years, not. 02:34:21
Kicking the can down the road then. 02:34:27
Pushing it onto a future council that go out for a 30 or 40% taxi property tax is is there. 02:34:29
And it's obviously the plates get into this type, but is there a way that we can? 02:34:37
Create some kind of unified message to the public about this so that we can. 02:34:42
And I don't know if you. 02:34:48
Preempting that just makes the problem bigger because if people find out like you know, set or is there a way to kind of. 02:34:50
Presents what this is that we're trying to play at care police officers or we're trying to do a correction because everybody. 02:34:57
That'll be the whole truth of taxation process will go through all of that and it will say. 02:35:04
You know, on a. 02:35:10
This. This is how much it's going to cost. 02:35:11
If your property taxes say. 02:35:15
I'm just going to do it back in there. So if your property taxes say $8000 a year, right? 02:35:18
I think your holiday course is probably. 02:35:26
18%. 02:35:28
16%. 02:35:33
That's generous. And that's because all the other taxing authorities are increasing a higher rate than we are. 02:35:35
So I love, I'd love to see the ranking of where we sit compared to other cities. So we're pretty low actually. So that's the share 02:35:42
and 10% of that which would be like the increase 50 to 10% there. 02:35:49
It would be $192.00 say here whatever $8000 is. So that would be a. 02:35:57
You know what? 02:36:04
Level house. That would be probably 800,000 or something. Well, that wouldn't be. 02:36:05
What was the most? 02:36:30
This will be the lowest inflation people have dealt with. I mean pretty grocery budget. 02:36:33
It'd be about other $750,000 house. My best guess would be about $110. 02:36:38
Because our property tax is only about, say, 16% of your property tax bill. 02:36:46
So if we raise our property tax 15%, it's not. 02:36:54
You know that the whole bill is just our. It's still people with inflation stuff. I think they need to be sensitive. Yeah, no, 02:36:57
it's true. It's true. And the fixed incomes and that's where I think. 02:37:03
Every three years or so. 02:37:10
I think it's a little bit negligent of us to not do it more. 02:37:12
You know more frequently because then you're. 02:37:16
People can adjust, yeah. It's just painful because. 02:37:18
You'll get you'll hear it. But I get this other reason I'd rather do it this year. 02:37:22
That I don't think we should wait till next year and then if you don't do it next year. 02:37:29
Then you're going to be asking for a 20% increase, 25% increase two years from now, which is really not fair to that council. 02:37:33
Yeah. 02:37:41
But I would say. 02:37:44
You know it may be. 02:37:48
15% is the number, but maybe you want to look at a little bit say look how much do we really want, do we think we're just by the 02:37:49
generating here and. 02:37:53
So 15% is the number if you want to do our justification based on inflation. 02:37:58
10%, which would really basically close that gap and just look at public safety and I heard you say. 02:38:05
Single digit maybe better or smaller is better than large. More frequent, smaller more frequent is better than larger. 02:38:12
So we're talking, I mean we're talking about what you said $110 a year. So we're at like. 02:38:20
Maybe $10 a month with this. Like, I feel like that's. 02:38:28
There are so, so few people actually do that calculation. 02:38:32
They look at the percent and they look at the total, their tax bill. 02:38:36
Is there a way we can? 02:38:42
We'll do it taxation, but it's a hard concept to explain to people when you say. 02:38:47
Well, your property taxes. 02:38:55
If we have gone up, well, yes they have. It's like, well, it wasn't us. It was great school district, yeah. 02:38:56
In in relationship to your neighbors, influences have more particular. 02:39:07
Value changes. Oh, they're really tough. It's complicated. 02:39:13
But it's conceptually it's. 02:39:19
Is a fact I mean. 02:39:21
If you look at our property tax in the city. 02:39:23
So. 02:39:31
I think if you're going to do it because you're not just doing it to cover, you're not just doing it to cover this year's delta. 02:39:33
If you're going to do it, you're also trying to lookout for a couple of years and say let's get enough to get us through another 02:39:40
three years. 02:39:43
Then maybe in three years we have to go out for another 10% increase from. 02:39:47
Because you're gonna get, you're gonna get. 02:39:51
You're going to get punished, whether it's 10% or 15, yeah. And if you're going to go through a lot of work to go through 02:39:55
taxation, you get it done. 02:39:59
You might as well. 02:40:05
Get justified 15%. I think we don't anticipate coming back to you for another, yeah, the March 349 and 15 is going to be. 02:40:07
And because inflation is going down, like it's not increasing as rapidly, I feel like it's a more salient. 02:40:16
Point people will understand that we are subject to those same pressures now more than they will in a year's time. Yeah, if we can 02:40:23
get it down to. 02:40:27
Your house is valued at $800,000. This means an increase of. 02:40:32
X dollars. 02:40:36
The hard thing about the inflation is they're being placed on their side. Yeah, it's absolutely true. That's why I like, yeah, so 02:40:39
public safety is the and I think our message, you can include both of these elements and we can, you know, I mean it's the state 02:40:46
legislature's fault when it comes to the public safety issue. 02:40:54
Definitely let them know. 02:41:02
Problems. 02:41:08
So we will start it, you will, when you adopt the budget. 02:41:14
Signal your attention for an increase. 02:41:20
The county will schedule that hearing in August. 02:41:24
And then you'll you'll have a final vote in August. 02:41:29
Yes, all this will. 02:41:34
Is indicate direction from the Council and. 02:41:36
And Gina, of our attention how we're going to build a budget. 02:41:40
And then we'll go through a public process. And that doesn't mean we're stuck with this number, I mean. 02:41:45
Once we get public input, we may change our mind. 02:41:50
So we have a couple of other small. 02:41:55
Issues we talked about Church, you. This is such a tiny little thing, but I just wanted to make you aware. So right now for our 02:42:04
4th of July breakfast. 02:42:09
We charge our residents $5 and I think we have. 02:42:15
Forever. 02:42:18
We're paying 1450 ahead for breakfast. 02:42:20
So I just wanted to raise that issue with you. So you want us to charge a 15% for property? 02:42:25
And. 02:42:35
That is not going to affect the equation that we just at all. 02:42:38
But I just wanted to make you aware and if you wanted to look at that, even raising a couple of dollars, we still could. 02:42:44
Since we've moved to credit cards, accepting credit cards, about 40% of people are paying with credit cards, but we still have a 02:42:53
lot of people that come and bring their five or 20. 02:42:58
And that would create some hassle as we as we take tickets. 02:43:05
I don't think it's that. 02:43:12
We need to. 02:43:21
It's pretty heavily subsidized. It doesn't need to be. 02:43:24
That's a great question. We've done different things like last year we just did a family and now created more pumps and. 02:43:32
One year. 02:43:42
Like 8 and under three or seven, six and under three we but I think. 02:43:44
Yeah, 10 dollars per dollar, $5 for kids. 02:43:52
Keeping utter. 02:44:04
It doesn't sound like there's a ton of support. That's what I would do. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. What would you do 10 02:44:06
bucks for? 02:44:10
That's still a bargain. Can you get your family up? It's still cheaper. 02:44:16
How about deadline, though? That's and that's. That's a big job. 02:44:22
I know for sure I'm fine either way. I mean, it doesn't sound like it's been bringing enough money to be so. I mean, whatever. You 02:44:29
can even say something. I can and. 02:44:33
You're a donation at the Arts Council. 02:44:38
Tell you also fund VR. 02:44:42
Instead of just being a. 02:44:45
Charge for breakfast and tell them that it costs 1450. 02:44:47
You know. 02:44:52
Maybe we could share If anybody complaints about that, just say. 02:44:54
That we have subsidized it with the empty and we change it next year. There's some we're going to save enough money that it's 02:45:06
worth the. 02:45:09
I mean, doesn't have to be a real number like that. Can we say? 02:45:13
Or something like that. Yeah. Period. 02:45:18
You know, I just would rather see us try to keep it close, yeah, And do more regular changes just so that it's not $8 for adults 02:45:21
and five for kids. 02:45:26
And it's under 2 and under 3 or whatever and one of your substitute. 02:45:32
Start rationing. 02:45:38
For you. 02:45:42
Complaints. Don't be shut up on the passport. Really. Yeah. 02:45:44
All right. So agreement on that point, cost of living at 4%, everybody comfortable with that. Yeah, that's a good start point. 02:45:48
And everybody comfortable. 02:45:58
From 30 to 35 ish. 02:46:03
Yeah, we've got some cost increases. 02:46:06
And Jeff Whitney contract. 02:46:11
It does seem like it is it getting. 02:46:14
More well attended because it seems like it is. 02:46:16
And I think we're going to have a. 02:46:20
Are nice about the study here just because the energy behind. 02:46:23
And the energy splitting into these programs and she was on fire. 02:46:27
Is there anything that the Arts Council, any events they do or are they charged for anything? 02:46:32
Official opportunities to set up. 02:46:40
Don't forget, don't neglect part of the sale price of the paintings for the Oh yeah, we when they sell the downstairs, we get cut. 02:46:43
For the arts sales, and of course we have beer sales, pretty good fundraising and we sell boots at the Blue Moon Festival, but. 02:46:53
But just attendees, those are not charged. There's revenue coming in. Sponsors as well are paying for sponsor tables. So there's 02:47:04
an active effort. Yeah, they do generate revenue, but not in the way you were just suggesting in terms of I wasn't meaning 02:47:10
activities that they do that. Yeah. So they get 10 grand from Holiday Bank and Trust to sponsor the event they've actually put out 02:47:17
to. 02:47:23
Wires threat of sponsorship levels for local businesses for mentions and AD space entering conference series. 02:47:30
And then, so yeah, the Arts Council does generate revenue. 02:47:37
None at the cover cost and then they get. 02:47:41
Very successful if there's app applications and. 02:47:44
But when it all. 02:47:48
It's certainly into the hopper. They're still short below that. 02:47:49
That's right. I mean before we moved to a full time position about half of the money for program for the total program was. 02:47:53
Was raised either through. 02:48:02
Through all those sources that I'll just need. 02:48:04
It's a little different now because we do have a full time employee that's benefited. 02:48:07
Percentage has changed. 02:48:14
We'll look at that as part of the budget process as well. 02:48:16
The biggest word of the words in the word salad in the surveys. 02:48:22
It's surely true. Thanks for yeah. 02:48:27
OK. Thank you for the direction. I appreciate it. 02:48:32
10:00 Yeah, that's what it's going to take a long time. 02:48:38
Normal by the way. 02:48:43
I think it's good. 02:48:47
Move to Journey Night. 02:48:50
Wait, Please. Please. 02:48:59
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But 50 years? 00:00:01
Up on the hill, right? 00:00:03
Is that is that 50th session? 00:00:06
Combine or just. 00:00:10
Just doing the job you're doing now. It was 50 years as being a lobbyist. 00:00:13
My first session in 1975, I was a student at the. 00:00:19
Utah, it was in government. 00:00:25
And we had this crazy idea to put a student on the State Board of Regents. 00:00:27
And so, a student from Utah State, my exhibit and I had this. 00:00:31
Plan that we could do this. 00:00:36
And we got a sponsor. 00:00:38
I was. I was dating someone in the governor's office and that tells you how old. 00:00:41
And the staff there, who I knew very well because I was dating one of the assistants. 00:00:48
Said you can't get a pass. The president will never let you pass. 00:00:53
And lo and behold, we met real. 00:00:57
And so, which I thought was pretty cool. 00:00:59
And then that fall, Ted Wilson may rest in peace, was elected. 00:01:03
As mayor and Jessica Gross was elected as the city commissioner in Salt Lake and. 00:01:09
And I helped Jessica Ross's country. 00:01:13
I'm still a student and just hired me to be an assistant in his office. 00:01:16
And so as they were sitting around and that that, you know because I started in November, as they were sitting around in January, 00:01:20
they said. 00:01:23
But you've got experience of the legislature. You passed that bill last year. 00:01:27
So why don't you do it or something? 00:01:31
So I started doing my regular work and then doing a little bit of legislative work for Salt Lake in 1976. 00:01:33
That I stayed there until the 85. 00:01:39
Working with Salt Lake and then in 85 I went to the League of Cities and it was up to League of Cities from 85 until. 00:01:42
October of 2002. 00:01:50
And then the 20/20/03 session was the first one. 00:01:52
That I was doing cash. 00:01:57
50 years. 00:02:00
Oh yeah. 00:02:01
You know, 88 governors. 00:02:09
16. 00:02:13
16 speakers, 13 Senate presidents and 739 legislators later. 00:02:15
You're counting all that. 00:02:21
Doesn't work. 00:02:25
Very random. 00:02:28
Well, congratulations. 00:02:33
Thanks. And I guess, I guess I'm like one of those people on the tree community of the arts community where you serve here to 00:02:36
replace. 00:02:41
Right. 00:02:50
Thanks for having us. 00:02:53
Well, fabulous what we're looking forward to the, pardon me, the legislative update. 00:02:55
So what we'll do is. 00:03:01
Is, you know, we'll go through. 00:03:04
Oh yeah. Yeah, very much. 00:03:11
As we get started, we've put together a little bit of a presentation. 00:03:15
And first, let me just say how thrilled actually I heard. 00:03:18
You know, mayor's been great. We have, you know, we've not worked extensively with members of the City Council. 00:03:24
You know, but Mayor Sally's been great. Gina and Holly attractive to work with. 00:03:30
You know, I've known maps since almost college days. 00:03:35
And and I've known Stephanie for a lot of years too. So it's it's it's a great relationship and we hope we're doing our job for 00:03:39
you. So thank you very much. 00:03:43
But anyway, we've narrowed it down to just a number of bills I just want to talk about. 00:03:48
The first one we talked about this at our initial meeting, House Bill 12 was the RDA. 00:03:54
And this is, this is, this is totally impactful for holiday. 00:04:01
Because it deals with. 00:04:05
When funds? 00:04:08
You know when a project area ends. 00:04:10
We now have five years. 00:04:14
To spend any of any of the money that is generated from that project area. 00:04:16
That impacts us because we were still trying to collect some enough affordable housing money to do the. 00:04:20
The units that we need to do based on our contract with Salt Lake County and what we want to do. 00:04:27
So affect the beginning May 1. 00:04:32
The clock is ticking for 60 months on using that money. 00:04:36
You know and so you know there was there was discussion during the session to change that to three years. That didn't happen. 00:04:42
You know, but you know, Holiday was one of the one of the agencies that was audited a few years ago. 00:04:49
And the money sitting there, because it takes us a little bit more time. 00:04:55
You know. 00:05:00
Land is a little more expensive. You know, we're an infill city. 00:05:02
It's difficult, but anyway, so we've got five years to do that. 00:05:06
And and. 00:05:10
So there's that's that. 00:05:12
House Bill 35 was the Metro Township bill. 00:05:14
And you know, this is the bill that automatically made currents and magnet. 00:05:18
And all the townships, cities or towns based on their. 00:05:23
And this was this was year two of the. 00:05:27
Of the legislative action that affected UPD. 00:05:31
So the bill passed as we hoped it would. The bill passed in the form that we hoped it would. 00:05:36
And talk to the Chief Coil before our discussion here. 00:05:43
I guess all the locals are signed for UPD too. 00:05:48
And I think that's. 00:05:52
You know, and it's hopefully it'll turn out better than we anticipated. 00:05:55
And I think that will be terrific. 00:05:59
And it will be truly a municipal. 00:06:02
Police agency. 00:06:08
You know, with a number of municipalities, but it's municipal agencies. 00:06:10
And it's not a it's not a hybrid. I think that would be a good thing. 00:06:13
What's the? Can you explain what the difference between an actual Township of the city is? 00:06:17
Well, the Township of. 00:06:21
The biggest, the biggest piece is there. I mean there were some, I think it's that clear delineation you have the testing ability 00:06:25
because they were given all these different pieces over time. 00:06:28
So like White City is a. 00:06:33
So one this is based on the population. 00:06:38
Another bill passed it Complicated. 00:06:47
Because of the islands. But yeah, so content. 00:06:50
Right there are townships. No, they're not there in town. They'll all need to be a corporate will be in town because of their 00:06:53
population. 00:06:57
I don't know what immigration canyons population is. 00:07:02
You know, it could be a town or it could be a city, but based on your population, you're going to be a town or a city. There is no 00:07:06
more there. What taxing authority does the city have as opposed to a town? Do they cannot oppose a property tax? 00:07:13
No. A city can. A Township couldn't. A town can't. Yeah. 00:07:22
Because there are more towns in the state of Utah than those cities. 00:07:30
Think about that. And really the difference is the population threshold, whether it's. 00:07:34
I think it may be there are no more. 00:07:42
You can decide where to do, how to raise your property tax, I think. I think that's what it is. It's entirely more self governance 00:07:49
on the finance side. 00:07:55
An attack. 00:08:01
So why do you have the tail? Why even do you have a tail? It's just the population. Okay, they have all the. 00:08:04
Name but the new city towns in Salt Lake County that workout shift. 00:08:13
Just property tax authority, is that right? Well, that's a good question. I thought there was a three-year. 00:08:20
Trigger because they could. The sales tax has already been. Has already been. 00:08:27
Levied in those, not geographic areas. So you can't give them another sales tax, Sales tax authority only if you want to put a 00:08:33
build a hockey arena in Salt Lake City. 00:08:37
But I think it's a three-year transition. 00:08:44
Triggers were for the option. 00:08:51
Yeah, silly. 00:08:55
Continuing to exist as I understand it. 00:09:00
I don't know what the solution of that if it comes with. 00:09:04
I think that's. 00:09:08
So this is interesting. There's a general that general. What are they? What they call that the? 00:09:10
The Big Piece. 00:09:16
So the sales tax, yeah. 00:09:18
You know, that's already already been levied. So all the sales taxes I think have been levied. It could. 00:09:21
No, that's a good question. That's how that works. 00:09:31
Sorry. 00:09:36
But anyway, the next bill Hospital 84. 00:09:44
That I know. I know. Chief Weil is familiar with that school safety amendments, though. 00:09:47
And, you know, to make a long story, a very, very long story. 00:09:53
As concise as possible. 00:09:58
As of maybe what makes effect questions, the bill takes effect May 1st. 00:10:02
But none of the provisions will be hit by May 1st. 00:10:06
You know so that to me. 00:10:10
That's a real big problem. 00:10:12
I think if you're an attorney and something happens in a school after May 1st, can you remind us what that bill does? Yes, I'm 00:10:14
going to go through that. 00:10:18
The bill does a lot of things. 00:10:22
Every school, Every public. 00:10:24
And charter school. 00:10:27
Shall have either in. 00:10:29
A private security company. 00:10:32
Or an armed or an armed school guardian. 00:10:34
Well, school's in session. 00:10:38
And you sent me the answer to your question, but did the question you had before I thought Olympus. You have an SRO Olympus, 00:10:42
right? Olympus Junior. And you have one of the Olympus Junior, Junior and ******* Junior, but not anything at the elementary. 00:10:48
So you so right now, the High School and North Charters. 00:10:56
So right now in holiday. 00:11:00
You have the senior Olympus and the junior highs are covered. 00:11:02
Not an issue, except. 00:11:08
When that SRL leaves campus. 00:11:11
There needs to be a. 00:11:14
Whether it's an SRO or whether it's a school target yet, that's something that's new that we haven't had to do in the past. 00:11:16
So if the schools don't have Sros, it's not the city's responsibility for the school guard. 00:11:23
That's the school's response. 00:11:30
So there's not an extra cost to cities. 00:11:33
That extra cost is in these schools. 00:11:36
So that's so for the elementary school and the charter school that's on the school district now. 00:11:39
Chief Hoyle and his staff and his staff. 00:11:46
Can't help bet. 00:11:49
Who the Guardians are? 00:11:50
They can help train who to guard. How? The Guardians. 00:11:52
Deal with it. These are staff that are they are. They can't be teachers or the principal. 00:11:55
But they have to be, but they can be staffed. So you're looking at custodians, you're looking at bus drivers, you're looking at, 00:12:00
you're looking at school counselors, you're looking at. 00:12:05
So anybody that's staff that's not a teacher or. 00:12:12
There's nothing, there's nothing wrong with this picture. 00:12:16
No. OK. But anyway, you know, Chief Oil can help bet. 00:12:19
They can train, they'll work, he'll work with all the other, you know, with mass and all of the other municipal chiefs in the in 00:12:26
the county. 00:12:30
In order to do protocols and how everything seems to be responded to those sorts of things. So who makes the decision about 00:12:35
whether or not he gets to help that? The problem is that the school principal or the school district? 00:12:40
Provided training for these guardians as well. Yes, it's all in the statute, but one of the things we're working out is there's 00:12:46
conversation right now with Granite as well as just what happened on Police Department or this city served by Who's going to be 00:12:50
responsible for that? 00:12:54
It's. 00:13:00
As much as well meaning as the bill is as an administrative access. 00:13:04
Now saying all that, it's all well-intentioned and it will all workout in the long run. 00:13:09
You know in the Granite school district the one wrinkle is Granite is only school district has its own place. For example, you've 00:13:14
got Sros that get responsible for here West Valley. 00:13:19
All the West Valley schools are covered by the grant schools. 00:13:24
That, I thought, was on. 00:13:27
But you know, but anyway, it's going to be different in graph than it is in the other school districts. But all the city chiefs 00:13:29
will work together. 00:13:33
You know, and they'll do the vetting, they'll do things, training. 00:13:38
You know, but trying to find Guardians is going to be a problem. 00:13:42
And essentially you just can't find one because you have to have an armed security personnel there. 00:13:46
While the school is in session, so even if you have an SRO. 00:13:53
Chances are you're going to have to have a background. 00:13:58
You know, and I know, I know in some situations, if you have an active situation off campus and that SRO is the closest person to 00:14:02
respond, he or she typically would respond. 00:14:06
Now the management decision is do they? 00:14:12
Do they, you know, if there's a traffic accident on 2030 South side of the outside of Olympus boundaries? 00:14:17
And you have the SRO inside the building as he or she responded to traffic accident. 00:14:24
Is the first one, is the first one I'm. 00:14:30
That's a question that the chief Oil gets paid. 00:14:32
So that's the personnel issue. 00:14:38
On the school district side, they've got to have the person at the state responsible. All the school districts have to have 00:14:40
somebody responsible and they've got to have a second person, like a principal that's a security chief. So it really is an 00:14:45
administrative. 00:14:49
Well, the schools last. The schools pay for everything. 00:14:58
So they're going to have to raise taxes. 00:15:02
There for In all likelihood, yes. Well. 00:15:04
You're talking in granite school districts, hundreds of guardians for elementary schools. 00:15:09
Right. That's how they're trying to get around that cost. But who are these guardians? But they can't be a teacher or a principal 00:15:15
or I mean the administrator. They just can't be the principal or the teacher. And that takes some training too, right? They get 4 00:15:21
hours of training every year, forgetful weapons, an additional 4 hours for everything else that you probably want to candidate. 00:15:28
And my understanding is there's no funding for law enforcement to provide the training. 00:15:37
So that's there must have been. 00:15:42
This during the session. Well this bill was going to pass and the first two or three drafts the county sheriff's was doing. 00:15:47
Would be doing all the protocols and all the training. 00:15:58
Even though all the schools are in cities. 00:16:01
So we've got to have to get that changed. 00:16:03
There are a lot of things that we've got changed. The school still has the state, USB still has 7070 ish million from last year. 00:16:06
Getting 100 million issue. 00:16:15
So money is going to be there. 00:16:17
The guardians. The guardians will get $500 on top of their regular salary, so I stopped an overwhelming cost. But the problem is 00:16:19
how do you train? 00:16:24
Someone who you don't know who that person is until you start betting. 00:16:29
With weapons and law enforcement. 00:16:35
And expect them to do that. It's going to be difficult, but any of the other things here is just this is going to be a year after 00:16:38
year. 00:16:42
Modification and evolution process and so I think. 00:16:46
Understanding where the pitfalls are, what problems are in every single year, how do we go back to make it work and give it a 00:16:50
better solution? 00:16:53
There are some things in private schools. There are some things that private schools have to do because there's a whole data go 00:16:59
over the whole bill because there's a lot of different components. Some of the things that the overall plan you have to have 00:17:03
certain plans, but the SRO requirements and some of these other things have. 00:17:08
You know, it's another little interesting caveat is public schools have to have a new bullying, cyber bullying and hazing policy, 00:17:15
which is terrific. 00:17:19
And it spells out the statute, what it's supposed to be, and the parents of the bullied student. 00:17:23
Have the right to know what happened. 00:17:28
To be into the student who did the bullying. 00:17:30
That's not in the private school sector, but it's in the public school section. 00:17:32
You know, that's a good thing. 00:17:36
You know if your child is being bullied, you want to know what's happening. 00:17:38
But anyway, so those things are going to be going to evolve. 00:17:43
Other things in the bill. 00:17:47
Every school will have to have cameras. 00:17:49
And they have to be able to be connected to the Police Department in times of an emergency. 00:17:52
So there are most schools have cameras now. 00:18:00
But right now they're not connected to the first responders. 00:18:04
That's got to happen. 00:18:08
Secondly, schools have been built in the past. 00:18:10
That have that have that have made it difficult for public safety personnel through used radios inside the schools. 00:18:14
And they were exempt from the public safety radio requirement. 00:18:22
Not anymore. 00:18:28
So all the new schools will have to be retrofit. Will it be fit to have the radio communication which is important? 00:18:30
Now all the older schools will have to be retrofitted to make sure they can. They can. 00:18:39
Get to the public safety radio level. 00:18:43
Which is also important to push responses. 00:18:45
There is in Florida after after the. 00:18:49
Heartland shooting. They passed Alyssa's law. 00:18:54
Which essentially is a panic button in every classroom. 00:18:58
That's included in this filter. 00:19:04
So all of these things. 00:19:07
Radios the cameras being connected, First responders. 00:19:08
The panic buttons all by May 1st. 00:19:12
So you know that that's not going to happen. 00:19:16
You know and I think that was a mistake using that made for respectively, but that's. 00:19:20
But we'll see what happens. 00:19:26
All of our. 00:19:31
But this will be a bill. I forget this will be, this will be an area where they'll be, we'll see legislation in the next two or 00:19:35
three years. 00:19:38
We will be modified. 00:19:41
Broad stroke person. 00:19:44
So. 00:19:46
House Bill 488, Transportation Fund Modifications. 00:19:48
Provides 1.4 million to holiday. 00:19:52
1.23 million excuse me. 00:19:57
Employee 1.23 million The holiday. 00:20:00
For highland drive between Vanwinkle and Overlay. 00:20:04
That's that's part of the the. 00:20:07
The quarter of 1/4. 00:20:12
Quarter of the fourth quarter. 00:20:13
Who was the 488 HP 48? 00:20:15
Well, doesn't matter. And then you know that Bill also does additional things. 00:20:20
It expands the uses of the shift. 00:20:26
Quarter to be used for transportation. Different math. 00:20:28
So there's a fifth quarter. 00:20:33
And I think the council, I think the County Council is, will want cities. 00:20:36
To adopt resolutions, to encourage them to pass, to enact the fifth quarter. 00:20:40
I think that's going to happen. 00:20:46
So, you know, that's a discussion that Mayor, you and the council have talked about. 00:20:47
You know that money will be used. Cities get cities, I think get 0.10 with that. I have to look back into that. That's been years 00:20:52
and years and years ago 10. 00:20:57
Transit gets. 00:21:03
Some some money can now be used for public safety. 00:21:05
You know, because and the thought there was additional public safety for the homecourt. 00:21:08
For homelessness. 00:21:14
In the county. 00:21:16
My guess is this might be the first year that that probably County Council probably will be more encouraged to pass it. 00:21:18
But they're going to, I'm sure they're going to want each council, as many councils as possible. 00:21:26
Sort of encourage the resolution to support passage of. 00:21:31
This quarter a couple of bills dealing with gravel pits. 00:21:38
Because I know a number of you were concerned about the gravel pit. 00:21:44
And I'm sorry, just kind of. 00:21:48
A Senate Bill 172 was. 00:21:51
Was initiated and it was protection area revisions and essentially that was, you know, to provide essentially an open door for new 00:21:55
gravel pants. The initial sponsor of the bill was told it was only going to be in rural Utah. 00:22:02
Well, but that's not what those who wanted the bill to do. 00:22:11
Had it drafted as and so when the bill came out and it was really. 00:22:16
A very controversial, very confrontational approach. 00:22:23
Between those who are providing materials for growing Utah and and municipal areas. 00:22:26
The sponsor said no thanks you guys. You guys told me that it was on rural Utah and it's not, so I'm not doing it. 00:22:35
It was picked up by another sponsor who Built didn't realize at the time all of the controversy and all the mistakes that were 00:22:41
made. So he said thanks, I'm done. 00:22:45
So that bill ended. 00:22:49
House Bill 50. 00:22:51
Critical infrastructure and mining. 00:22:53
The initial draft of that bill was as horrible as 172, but there were discussions on that and the bill passed. 00:22:55
Where the Division of Oil, Gas and Mining is to study critical infrastructure materials operating, including location, size. 00:23:02
Production levels and the extent the levels meet U dot standards of the materials. 00:23:10
They have to report to the Energy Natural Resources Committee. 00:23:15
In November of this year. So that would be the November interim committee meeting. So that says it just turned that whole idea 00:23:19
into a study. 00:23:23
I mean it's basically what they're trying to get down to is they want, we need more material. And so they're trying to say how 00:23:28
much material do we need, what is the cost, where should it come from, the quality, the quality. 00:23:33
Of the transportation. So the important thing about that is there's going to be individuals from the gravel industry, but there's 00:23:38
a lot of city and local government. 00:23:42
Planning organization. So it's going to be safe over from all of the. 00:23:50
So this is what should have done. This is what should have happened before. 00:23:53
You know and you know the will follow the process. 00:23:58
You know, I know we'll have, we'll have that discussion with Cam. 00:24:02
Cameron Hill and the board will leave board to find out who those municipalities are going to be. 00:24:07
You know, whether it's going to be somebody from waste front or mountain lands. 00:24:12
Would be a discussion. 00:24:17
You know, so I would prefer watch that, try that to come from Salt Lake County. 00:24:19
Or Davis. 00:24:24
But you know, because there's something in the water in Utah County, so you're not really quite sure. 00:24:25
But you know, I think we need to figure that out. 00:24:30
But they'll be, they'll be a study. 00:24:33
And in November of this year. 00:24:35
We'll see what, if anything, we'll see in the 20. 00:24:38
25 section. 00:24:41
So very quickly, I just want to run over a few housing bills. 00:24:44
The The name of the game this year was Instead of getting funding from the state, putting money up front, it was. 00:24:49
County and city dollars, right? So a lot of tax increment financing tools. So it's more tools. 00:24:55
Of how you can build an enhanced housing. 00:25:02
I'm going to run through some of them and some of them aren't necessarily directly related to holiday because they're they're more 00:25:04
focused towards new developments, Greenfield areas. But I want to bring up two reasons first. 00:25:09
They could change because as these tools are developing, these people evolve and change. And then the second reason is. 00:25:15
We come back to the legislature measure and say Haitian girl is helping you guys say what they will. All these have these new 00:25:20
tools you created weren't directly targeted towards legacy cities or cities that already built up. So I think just having a 00:25:24
general understanding of all the tools that created. 00:25:28
First one is HP 13 Infrastructure financing. 00:25:33
Person to bring down. Again, this started out as you know it's a deviation of HIDS. 00:25:37
And and then there were a lot of really bad ideas that were coming across what was finally landed on Not great, not terrible. And 00:25:41
that's typically where these bills end up. But it's a new tool that will allow for limited bonding authority by developers and 00:25:47
property owners. They do have limited taxing authorities to operations. 00:25:53
Bonds cannot be paid with property tax and all debts are born solely to the initial property owners and they can't be transferred 00:25:59
until you have final inspection and the bonds are paid off. So basically build it up and then you can sell the properties. 00:26:04
This this isn't going to impact anybody. 00:26:10
This is going to impact those areas in the fringe of growth and development. 00:26:13
Where there are 190,000. 00:26:18
Entitled entitled. 00:26:21
Lots out there. 00:26:23
And no way to get the infrastructure. 00:26:25
This will help that. 00:26:27
So if you're in. 00:26:29
Fairfield in Utah County. 00:26:30
You know you'll be impacted by. 00:26:33
You know, but I don't know anywhere in Salt Lake County. 00:26:35
So a couple other bells 8B4465 Housing Affordability Efficiency Representative White, one of the many bills that came up with 00:26:41
Commission Housing Affordability. 00:26:46
Couple of things it does. So the moderate, your moderate angle, moderate income housing plan, you're going to have to include the 00:26:52
numbers of units that were entitled. 00:26:55
But not yet permitted because sometimes the housing developers are throwing around these numbers. How many buildings are not being 00:26:59
built but cities are entitling? There's nothing permanent built so to give that additional data point. 00:27:04
And also allow funding RDA funding to be used for owner occupied units at 121% AMI. So you can go up a little bit higher on that 00:27:10
affordability level to create new housing, new housing units or renovate housing units. 00:27:18
You can also RDA housing funds can also be used outside of your city if you have an interlocal agreement is made. 00:27:27
And then another one, kind of similar to the RDA bill. 00:27:35
Audit Bill All housing funds moving forward have to be spent in six years. 00:27:38
So you can't six years? 00:27:44
From the date they start getting collected. 00:27:47
So, which means you're not, you know, so if you if you get money in year one. 00:27:50
That money has to be entitled. 00:27:54
Even though the RDA might be 20 years, yes, right, Yes, so. 00:27:58
You don't have to spin. 00:28:03
But you have to entitle it. 00:28:06
Or encumbered and they usually like you have to go back because the terminology is different some of these bills. 00:28:08
So if you plan right, you can have a plan and you're going to say this is my plan and this has been, but you have to plan for your 00:28:13
money on a rolling six year period. 00:28:18
You know, and there were a couple of studies. 00:28:23
That we're sitting on big piles of. 00:28:27
10s of millions. 00:28:30
40 millions of dollars. 00:28:32
And essentially. 00:28:36
They were just sitting on. 00:28:37
So that is where this is coming from. 00:28:39
City, Pennsylvania funds. 00:28:42
OK. HB 476 minus the land use regulations, another shop that's. 00:28:44
I think we're OK because Todd looked over this bill. There was it immensely. Items in the municipality can require for development 00:28:52
agreements, including height, density transfers, parking, setbacks and zone changes, but it restricts the city from acquiring an 00:28:57
agreement if the development meets the current zoning ordinances. 00:29:01
So that's just something that moving forward. 00:29:06
Keeping in mind. 00:29:10
They've always won. 00:29:15
Oh, so that was a lot of restrictions, Bill, that really would have limited a lot of initial bill, the initial bill. But in the 00:29:17
final version of it, it really just restricts I think overhead irrigation. I think that's right. And we were concerned about that 00:29:23
just with the possibility of scrambling development. 00:29:29
Look, as we're looking at a lot of open things, skilled space that would have been challenging. 00:29:37
But was great to work with. 00:29:46
You know, it passed the house just like that. 00:29:50
And then we had. We worked on it. 00:29:54
Another bill that we just want to bring up is housing funding. Again, again, not directly related this bill for legacy cities, but 00:29:59
I think it's going to be changing as we move forward. HP 572 straight state treasurer investment amendments and so this deals with 00:30:05
the public treasurer's investment fund. 00:30:10
And that big pot of money where you put excess funds continue to grow. 00:30:17
They're going to take a state portion of that, up to $300 million of state dollars, and then the banks can use these funds with 00:30:21
developers to develop affordable housing. So it's another basic pot of money for investing in housing. 00:30:28
Right now, it's only for new housing. 00:30:35
Not super helpful for holiday, but we've already started talking to representatives. 00:30:37
Waldrick, who is Director of housing in Governor Cox office and how do you start to be able to? Because this is a great. 00:30:44
For new cities and growing cities and what about the legacy cities? So we're going to talk about can we make a provision in there 00:30:52
that legacy cities can also tap into these funds. 00:30:55
You know to do that one of the issues is I don't know if this is a big this would be important. 00:31:00
But you know, for example, the street, Salt Lake City for example, there are a lot of rental housing in Salt Lake City. 00:31:06
And a lot of that housing symptoms become substantial. 00:31:12
And Salt Lake City School District just went through for us as the warm. 00:31:17
It has an alpha and closing elementary schools. 00:31:21
So if you've got. 00:31:25
Rental detached housing. 00:31:26
You know, 2-3 four bedroom houses, you know, they're not very big and they might have two bedrooms. 00:31:30
Can we how can we get those? 00:31:37
Hit those homes, picks them up. 00:31:39
But they'll buy them from the landlord. 00:31:41
Picks them up. Sell them to home phone buyers. 00:31:44
And start putting their families in those homes. 00:31:48
Well, the problem with that is when you buy that house. 00:31:50
You're not just buying the structure, you're buying the interest rate. 00:31:54
And so, so one of the thoughts for next year is we have more time. 00:31:58
Perhaps the RDA can buy the home. 00:32:02
And because we can write down the cost of it. 00:32:06
The RDA can buy the home. 00:32:10
By the revenue St. picks it up. 00:32:11
Eat some of that cost and then sell the. 00:32:14
And use this. 00:32:17
And so that's one of the things we're looking at next year that may be a children holiday. 00:32:20
Just quickly want to touch on SB168 housing affordability amendments about the statewide building Clipper module homes and module 00:32:26
buildings to be a new building technology and then it kind of goes through the processes of what that was, how that would look 00:32:30
like. 00:32:34
It also creates. Again this is. 00:32:39
I don't know if it would necessarily affect, it's called the hops in the acronym Home Ownership Promotion Zones. And basically it 00:32:42
allows you if you if it's an acre up to 6 acres. 00:32:48
You increase the zoning. I'm sorry, no under 10 acres if it's six units per acre if you up zone. 00:32:53
You can use the tax increment financing up to 60% to reinvest. 00:33:02
Now the goal is here to try to identify some of our zoning, but I don't know how much tactic you'll actually get from this tool. 00:33:07
But it is a it was pushed by a House leadership. 00:33:12
Law. 00:33:19
And. 00:33:20
The owner wants to put. 00:33:23
You know, and if you want that to happen, you can do a house. 00:33:28
And because you're up to zone, the neighbors won't mind at all neighbors. That's your problem. 00:33:31
But again. 00:33:41
Another one that there's a long bill, but I just want to mention one piece of it and this was SB-268 first time investment. 00:33:46
This is the Fizz. It's the first home investment zone that largely can be used in holiday because it's in a city, town, medium 00:33:54
density, mixed-use and you have extra territorial new development. But the piece of the bill that I want to highlight? 00:34:01
To do one of these, the county required they wanted something in there and they basically said if you want to do one of these. 00:34:09
You have to prohibit the creation if you're. 00:34:16
RDA retains cash and cash equivalent assets of more than 20% ongoing unencumbered annual revenue. 00:34:20
Because they're worried about those cash back, those, those cash balances of too much money sitting in your Rdas. 00:34:26
This won't affect you, but you don't probably won't be creating these physics. 00:34:31
But the concern here is that the county put it into this bill. 00:34:36
Is it going to go into other RDA and other CRA? 00:34:39
So again, they're saying if you want to create easy tax increment financing tools, you've got to have your cash. 00:34:42
So I bring that up just as these are the tools that are kind of coming online and then the pieces that are kind of entering 00:34:51
because now you've got HDR ZS, you've got Fizz, you've got Hawks, you've got. 00:34:56
I mean there was like, you know, there's like six of these were supposed to be the starter home in business over shares. 00:35:02
Not a good. 00:35:08
And I kept telling them that if you keep saying that, I'm going to find out, but AT. 00:35:11
And again, just. 00:35:17
Kind of an awareness of all of these new. 00:35:22
Coming online and trying to solve. 00:35:27
Questions. That was 24. 00:35:31
OK. Any questions? Great. If not. 00:35:36
Next Wednesday the 17th, let's set up management. 00:35:39
Makes for the first time during this interim, so we start already for next year. 00:35:42
They will set aside, they will announce the all the interim meeting dates. 00:35:47
For the rest of the calendar. 00:35:53
And what the schedule is going to be that will assign issue topics to each of the communities. So we'll know that next next 00:35:56
Wednesday and we'll share that with everybody, make sure you guys don't know and then as bills take effect on May 1. 00:36:04
That means on May 2. 00:36:13
Legislators can open up bill files, actually. 00:36:15
And probably on May 2, you'll see about 350 bill puzzle. 00:36:18
It begins again. 00:36:25
Quick question, you talked about the gravel pits, parties down an issue. 00:36:28
Going back to a year ago, there was a bill that everyone was so upset about. 00:36:33
Regarding roads around gravel pits, whatever happened with that, I know that there was a huge push to have. 00:36:38
The governor. 00:36:45
The sales tax. 00:36:47
It went into effect and that it would not be. 00:36:52
You know, and you know, that's a great question. I don't know. I don't know. I thought somebody was suing over it. 00:36:56
Yeah. And I'm not even sure, you know, now that we're into that almost a year now, I'm not even sure how that is infected sales 00:37:05
tax of local government. 00:37:10
That's the challenging part. We expect we would receive laughs, but it's not like it's nine items the only way, the only way, I 00:37:16
think you'll realize it. 00:37:21
Is if you have either the gravel pit or the business office of the company in your city where you are the. 00:37:27
Well, you're the. 00:37:36
With the. 00:37:39
Local option. 00:37:42
Where? Where you get the front of that money. If they have 50% of this point itself, that's the only way you're going to see it. 00:37:43
Because you'll still always get. 00:37:50
50% population distribution, that's not going to change, but what will change is where that point of cells. 00:37:52
And so that was our concern was that we bear the burden of the gravel pit to a large extent in Canyon Cove, the one that is 00:37:59
adjacent to us. 00:38:04
But it's not in our city. So I mean I think this is going to be one of my agencies. If you change it, what you get changes and 00:38:10
then looking at overall, right. So you can see the big changes in. 00:38:15
You know, the initial five or two would have been devastating. 00:38:23
Because they should just arbitrarily move out and expand. 00:38:28
So you know it was. 00:38:34
Very delicate negotiations. 00:38:36
Can you The only bill that I'd like you to touch on is the inspection bill. Oh yes, so SB185. 00:38:40
Senator Vickers, and this is the building, accept yourself and it started in a terrible place when it got to, I think it wasn't 00:38:49
that bad of a bill because what they were saying and I think it's coming out of one state in Cedar City that they weren't getting 00:38:54
their sessions not three day time requirement. 00:38:59
And so the final and. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the final version is. 00:39:03
The owner, the property owner developed. The builder can request that and they don't get in three days. 00:39:09
The they go to an approved list by the city, an approved third party inspectors. But then there's the liabilities on that 00:39:14
inspector right? The city doesn't have the liability. 00:39:20
But you the only way you go to that third party is after you pass that three day. 00:39:25
And it's on an approved list. 00:39:31
So not surprisingly, we're having some trouble getting people willing to sign up for that because I mean, like, they're 00:39:34
independent, right? And then. 00:39:38
The area that they pick up cover. 00:39:43
Timeframes the responsibility, the liabilities a. 00:39:45
I think it's one of those bills that got. 00:39:49
It came up with a solution that was so competitive and complicated that it's not going to actually solve the problem. 00:39:52
Especially because I think the problem is so limited and directed. 00:39:57
On the two cities that are really having this problem. So instead of you know, trying to figure it out what has all the problems, 00:40:01
they try to. 00:40:04
Create this build I don't know how. 00:40:07
The good news is that over a lot of, I mean this is you know the work of what you do. All the negotiations ended up in a much 00:40:10
better place because originally when it started it was you could go to any inspector that you wanted at any time at the get go and 00:40:15
there was none of these, you know, none of these repercussions or responsibilities or cities and things like that. So it ended up 00:40:19
in a good place. 00:40:23
As far as not damaging, but I don't know how. 00:40:28
Words are in a good place. Words policy is and the actual actualization of finding inspectors who want to put their reputation on 00:40:31
the line. 00:40:36
With you know to go and inspect and potentially face the liability. 00:40:42
Any other questions? 00:40:53
All right. 00:40:56
Hopefully. 00:41:09
It was part of, yeah, it was. 00:41:11
It was approved, so now it will go through a process and this is some federal remark. 00:41:16
It will need to come to us. 00:41:23
For a process that's kind of similar to a brand application. 00:41:25
All right. Well, thank you guys for working on behalf of the city. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. 00:41:33
All right. 00:41:40
All right. Have a good night. I promise I will not. I will not. 00:41:48
Send my application to your school garden. 00:41:51
It's the last thing you want. 00:41:55
There aren't enough hours in the day. 00:42:00
You guys. OK. Thanks, John. And Carrie, you're up. 00:42:03
Next. Next. 00:42:08
Come on to that, let's see the regional first, because John, you said you could take two minutes and just clarify the whole thing 00:42:10
for us. 00:42:14
Reason is easy, We can do that. 00:42:18
I don't think this reason is an issue for the Council so. 00:42:25
I was just trying to clarify them for it because it seemed like they were focused on. 00:42:30
Pending C2 and it's like this isn't about. 00:42:35
I was kind of in a Papa bear moment in. 00:42:40
Most of our staff reports to you. 00:42:44
Do provide a level analysis. Some of it's professional. 00:42:49
Cover the majority of it, 90% of this. 00:42:53
The ordinance very clearly says that we have to provide you with an analysis of what? 00:42:57
So that section of the general plan is 1 portion of that report. The other is the recommendation, so. 00:43:03
May or may not like what's in that analysis. 00:43:10
It is old. 00:43:14
However, luckily we are going to update that general plan. 00:43:16
And in fact, we signed up today that we were putting out our RFP for. 00:43:20
Consultants on your new General Plan update? 00:43:25
May 1st. 00:43:28
So by summer, we'll be due in. 00:43:30
All the smaller master plans that go with it. 00:43:35
In the Hawaii Village zone to. 00:43:39
Master plan to. 00:43:41
And to include the new. 00:43:43
Well, I mean, obviously I did a very poor job of it, but. 00:43:47
What I was, I think what I was trying to say to them was. 00:43:51
Staff basically says that. 00:43:55
According to the general plan. 00:43:57
This is probably appropriate for C2. However, this application is appropriate and supported by the Planning Commission staff. 00:44:00
So that's what I got. 00:44:07
I wasn't seen to pee off anybody off by asking questions. 00:44:11
But mostly I just have residents in my mind. 00:44:18
Conversations we had about and the. 00:44:20
And came into play, if you recall down on Highland Drive where we have, as I recall there was C2 then there was. 00:44:23
Some other zone and then more C2. There's just this pocket. 00:44:29
And so I think in the spirit of critical thinking, I wanted to just say, OK, are we? 00:44:33
You know creating that that we have tried to avoid. 00:44:38
I don't have a drive. 00:44:41
And the other thing is, I look at that too, I just think. 00:44:44
I wanted to understand for my own sake what is the real difference in the impact to the neighborhood because to me it's extremely 00:44:49
separated when you've got a circle that comes in from the back versus this frontage on Highland Drive and. 00:44:55
You know, it creates an awkward land use. 00:45:02
Interaction, right? 00:45:05
Most of your zones. Most of your zones that are. 00:45:07
Hybrid, commercial or street? 00:45:11
Along commercial do have buffers, setbacks, buffering standards within those zones. 00:45:13
Not necessarily having the zone itself be the buffering. 00:45:18
But there are set back standards, especially when they have. 00:45:22
Residential property. 00:45:25
In this case, the PO and the C2 zones are the same. 00:45:27
Things have suffered or did set back on the rear is slightly different on C2 versus. 00:45:30
Versus the PO? 00:45:39
I think it's 15 and C2 and. 00:45:41
Yeah. 00:45:45
But then there's other. 00:45:50
There's other options that would meet the general plans. 00:45:57
Designation as exclusively commercial. 00:46:02
So maybe it would be less intensive. 00:46:05
Applications what the application is. 00:46:10
In the application's. Great. 00:46:14
If we got any issues with that, yeah. So I think we're good. 00:46:16
So then we go to the APU, right? Right. So this is a big piece in. 00:46:21
The fact that is the best way to handle this. To go to your summary, do you think or? 00:46:27
The summary is the presentation was created off about each of those sentences. 00:46:36
So I think going to let's start at the summary and just. 00:46:42
Right. I don't know, I think. 00:46:50
Either way. 00:46:52
Repetitive. When I was talking to Gina today, we were talking about how we should approach this because you got. 00:46:55
The Planning Commission's kind of a vision and the staff's vision, but. 00:47:02
But then I didn't know if. 00:47:07
One was sort of a would be considered if you guys are kind of loggerheads or for Planning Commission was a. 00:47:09
There's an evolution of the process with where there may still be some differences. 00:47:16
But were there some changes made by the Planning Commission that you're. Oh yeah, that's a good idea. Was it, was there any 00:47:21
evolution element to it or was it more no. 00:47:26
It was an ongoing discussion where it was, here's what's presented. You know, maybe we're not quite so comfortable with this. 00:47:33
Let's change this. 00:47:37
So I kind of supported, yeah, that's a good idea. We can do that. Some things there weren't as. 00:47:42
There was not as much discussion around or really thorough analysis. 00:47:47
But I think that. 00:47:53
Did they increase the setbacks on the last one? I mean, that's one of our bigger issues. Is that the 10 foot minimum regardless? 00:47:55
Yeah. And understanding like the intent of the Planning Commission, yes. They want to ensure that there's privacy between 00:48:00
properties. 00:48:05
So that's kind of how we're addressing it. It might have been more random than. 00:48:11
Then based on good principles, yeah. 00:48:18
So that's that's kind of where those differences came out. 00:48:21
They they could be adjusted and changed. You can send it back to the. 00:48:27
Or have staff look at those specific things in May. So any recommendations? 00:48:35
I've never. 00:48:42
Direction with those differences. 00:48:45
Yeah, I think by the time. 00:48:47
We were getting into the. 00:48:49
Yeah, throwing out a couple of. 00:48:59
What? You know zoning standards. 00:49:03
As far as setbacks are concerned. 00:49:05
Are largely assuring. 00:49:07
There's no real scientific. 00:49:09
Yeah, otherwise but. But. 00:49:13
You're doing a consistency among certain elements. So for instance, if the primary building set back is actually, don't want the 00:49:15
accessory to be some. 00:49:20
Weird number that has no context. 00:49:24
Relative to the. 00:49:27
The primers, especially when you have a lot of. 00:49:28
Neighborhoods have narrow widths. 00:49:33
The required set back for a home might be even more. 00:49:36
Then what? A set back or even less than what the accessory building, right? 00:49:40
Set back which or. 00:49:47
With some points that could go up to like 6 1/2 feet cause. 00:49:50
The average would be like 8 foot. 00:49:54
So you have an average step back, you can come closer 15%. 00:49:56
With some variations. 00:50:01
It has rebuilding the same kind of concept where it can be averaged. 00:50:05
But that having a. 00:50:11
Smaller size lots with a setback that would be. 00:50:13
Even smaller than what the Planning Commission is proposing for an accessory building. 00:50:17
With workers. 00:50:21
We're looking at the impact of the primary structure versus the accessory structure, and accessory structures are going to vary in 00:50:24
size depending on. 00:50:28
The total lot coverage, so there's a lot of different checks on accessory buildings themselves that. 00:50:33
By nature, they are less actual than a primary structure. 00:50:39
So accessory buildings that are not. 00:50:43
Dwelling units versus central buildings that are. 00:50:48
Rights which changes and accessory buildings can still be more practical than an accessory compelling unit. 00:50:53
Uses their garage for parties and. 00:51:03
Or machine shop for personal use. And there's there's a lot of various. 00:51:07
Impacts that can still occur in accessory buildings. 00:51:13
When we're looking at impacts, looking at how are we attracting the impacts, so the impacts associated with this. 00:51:17
Addressed by Noise Princess. 00:51:24
Obtuse. 00:51:28
Public nuisance or what address? 00:51:30
And so that's kind of the same approach that we see with like an accessory dwelling unit, Okay, this is a dwelling unit. 00:51:34
How are we addressing the impact specific to Indian Welling unit? 00:51:41
So the city, how much this deals with internal accessory? Is that pretty much clarified? 00:51:49
So this is only related to EADUS. 00:51:55
And so. 00:51:59
We're making a simple statement here, but what we're trying to do is see it. 00:52:01
See if we can give. 00:52:05
Staff guidance to actually come up with an ordinance that we can vote on 25th. 00:52:07
Right. And what are? 00:52:13
Or this report. Are these the issues that need to be clarified? So you just need to go through one at a time? We'll go through and 00:52:16
you can say adjust this or can I question the premise? 00:52:22
Why do we need to pass anything? 00:52:29
We don't. We don't. We don't need to vote on it next week and I think. 00:52:31
Well, we need to change. 00:52:36
Do you mean like we could refer back to the Planning Commission? So what I'm saying is, are we under the gun to do something? No, 00:52:38
by mandate. And so our goal is to make sure we do something right, not something fast. And it seems like suddenly we've got this 00:52:43
drop dead date that. 00:52:48
No, I don't think we need the public hearings closed. 00:52:54
But the issues that are in here, if we can't get, you know, I don't want to spend. 00:52:57
Two hours on this tonight if we need to put it to your point, if we need to put on the work agenda for the 25th. 00:53:03
To continue the discussion, we can do that. I mean what one of my concerns. 00:53:08
I think the overall guidance I remember getting was if there's some low hanging fruit with regarding some external Pdus. 00:53:15
If someone can knock something out. 00:53:22
Because it feels like this got bigger than low hanging fruit. 00:53:25
And the other. 00:53:28
The reason I'm concerned about that is that we've got this. 00:53:30
Ever steepening mandate. 00:53:34
Cycle that's coming towards us from the legislature about housing. 00:53:38
And I'm loathe to get out in front of that. 00:53:41
Because there's not. Yeah, I don't want to. 00:53:45
Do something before we can get credit for it in that ever increasing mandate environment. 00:53:50
Because then it won't count. 00:53:57
We do it too soon. 00:53:59
And because then also we do something and then the mandate comes, you've got to do something more by additional have 25% more 00:54:02
effectiveness. We did something too soon we're not. So even those I don't know that any work that we do here would be lost. 00:54:09
But perhaps it might be wise to not. 00:54:18
Be in a hurry. 00:54:21
Because it might, it might come to a point where we have to do this. 00:54:24
And then we've got in our pocket. 00:54:27
Can we get credit for it or is it possible? Arizona Core analysis of. 00:54:30
Required a crystal ball that nobody has so in Francis. So this has to do with. 00:54:35
The modern income piece we just adopted, right? And these boxes we have to check in, so. 00:54:42
Are you concerned about that that? 00:54:51
We should be. 00:54:54
Stretching out our opportunities to check our boxes? Yes, exactly. 00:54:57
Because you can't check a box that says within this year you've got to do X and well, we've already kind of shot this bot, as it 00:55:02
were. 00:55:06
And we can't count it. There's a box checking opportunity. 00:55:10
And I'm really concerned about boxing with the legislature. 00:55:14
Do we have enough information to strategize that or? 00:55:18
Harry is sort of holding back and they're going to change something, but it may not match. You hate to not do the right thing just 00:55:23
for that reason, yeah. 00:55:28
It requires a crystal ball. 00:55:34
That's why I say that's why I was kind of focused on low hanging fruit as opposed to. 00:55:36
Redesigned. What were you going to say in? 00:55:40
I seem to say that in. 00:55:43
Having a discussion. 00:55:49
Moving towards. 00:55:51
Reducing the regulations. 00:55:55
Whether it be 1 item? 00:55:58
We can report. 00:56:01
It doesn't require us to. 00:56:04
We've done this. 00:56:17
So what you're saying is we would get credit for this? 00:56:22
And if we did a little bit and then a little bit next year, we could. 00:56:25
Yes, because we put on their timeline. 00:56:29
Yeah, but this is. 00:56:39
It's something we should do, yeah, Yeah, we need to. We need for the needs of the residents first. 00:56:41
Regardless of what we think that we're going to be required to do by legislature. 00:56:48
But personally, residents do it. Yeah, question of what is that? 00:56:53
But regardless of that, it's also lots of residents are like. 00:56:57
But making every R1 zone R2. 00:57:02
So there's that, there's, there's the longer term strategic piece. So it doesn't seem to be an issue like it. 00:57:05
We should we should do this. 00:57:10
But that doesn't mean we have to put on the agenda to vote for the 2050. 00:57:12
Because there's some stuff that we can't, I don't want to spend. 00:57:16
You know, I say, let's give this 1/2 an hour, so we'll start chipping through these things, but we should vote this. 00:57:20
Put it on for a vote until we're comfortable. 00:57:27
That we've gone through all these things and reach what we agreed on. 00:57:29
The individual issues that are outlined here. 00:57:34
That really breakdown, that matrix that staff created about. 00:57:37
What the staff said they would recommend, and we're different from the Planning Commission. I think that was the issue we had 00:57:41
right and right. So I think we need to walk through, start walking through each of those individual issues. 00:57:47
See if we can reach consensus. 00:57:53
And you know, we can get through as much as we can, but I don't think they're, if we get through the night right. I don't want to 00:57:56
spend. 00:57:58
I don't want to spend an hour and a half. We can move it to the next. 00:58:02
To the 25th and continue and then when we're ready. 00:58:07
Will vote it or if we're still uncomfortable with it, we could always say. 00:58:10
Because it almost sounded like the Planning Commission punted a little bit on it to say, let's just. 00:58:14
These are. 00:58:20
Table it to a further date. 00:58:25
We can study it further. 00:58:27
Weights, and I think the Planning Commission too. 00:58:29
Especially when they were looking at like, let's start at this like we're all comfortable with reducing the law size. 00:58:35
Maybe then in two years or whatever period of time we can look at. 00:58:43
Reducing that more so I think having some of that periodic review I think and when you were talking about like. 00:58:50
Incremental. So maybe looking at it as an incremental, OK, what? 00:58:57
What things would be most important or high priority to pass and follow that with? Let's look at it in another year or two years 00:59:02
and. 00:59:06
What other things we? 00:59:10
I think when you're looking at like below hanging fruit when we got into the ordinance, it's like. 00:59:13
How do you? How do you? 00:59:19
Just single out just a little element when you could. 00:59:22
Comprehensively address some of the issues that are that are within it. 00:59:26
And that's when we got into looking at what the code is and what needed to be changed to allow for modification of or conversion 00:59:31
of the existing accessory buildings. That's where it got a little bit. 00:59:37
Like it's not as simple. 00:59:44
As the Planning Commission for their pointless. 00:59:46
Yeah, building a new structure complies with short standards is. 00:59:49
Possibly better than converting this thing. 00:59:54
So that's. 00:59:57
Gina, let me ask you how much of the budget discussion, how much is there? I mean, I'm going to guess that conversational thing is 01:00:00
20 minutes or so. 01:00:04
Well, why don't we? 01:00:08
This team my suggestions. Why don't we start going through? 01:00:10
The individual issues and see how far we get. 01:00:14
And it will take from there. But at some point I may just say, OK, let's. 01:00:17
Stop here. 01:00:21
Put it on for the 25th and we'll start over again. See if we get through, because I think we don't have there's no rush to focus. 01:00:23
It's just a quick comment and looking at the goals that we submitted. 01:00:30
It's a quarterly review. 01:00:34
That we are. 01:00:37
So it's not specific or what we've done, but just review any value. 01:00:46
There is a box needing to be checked that we can check as a result. 01:00:55
Looks like we've got the first quarter and second quarter, that's right. 01:01:00
Quick question to answer you if I mean, even if you pass new code or changes to the code, you could still have that review be part 01:01:04
of your. 01:01:08
How successful it was. Great. 01:01:19
Last because you kind of move through this. 01:01:23
If there are specific areas that are kind of addressed, the. 01:01:27
For, can you highlight those for? 01:01:32
Is that a specific issue? Is there or is it multiple to a degree? 01:01:36
Yeah, and I think that his situation is. 01:01:44
Would be more focused on impact. 01:01:47
And that was the kind of consideration of as well you know, what is the impact, how do you detach structures? 01:01:50
Affect neighboring properties, that's where the height limitation that they they wanted to have is in there. So if you have 01:01:59
something that's underground, what is the impact? 01:02:03
I think that that's a consideration for. 01:02:08
Conversion of existing structures. Can we do? 01:02:13
I think staff suggestion was. 01:02:17
Maybe having those be conditional use permits? 01:02:19
So that converting existing accessory structures. 01:02:22
To a accessory unit. 01:02:26
Would have to have a condition, at least permit review by the Planning Commission and then conditions are placed on those 01:02:29
specifically. 01:02:32
So that they have the oversight. You know the impact on this is too great. It can't be mitigated with XY or Z. 01:02:36
So that's an event would be. 01:02:43
So this is actually my question so. 01:02:48
Because this all started with the idea of enabling the conversion of existing structure. So is that are all these focused just in 01:02:50
that scenario or are they on new structures as well they be on new structures. So I just wanted to see the scope of it Okay, so 01:02:57
you have some elements of the code that then if you're converting existing structures. 01:03:04
That kind of effect other intersection, Yeah. So they're they're interrelated. That's fine. I just wanted to understand the scope, 01:03:12
so. 01:03:15
All right. 01:03:18
Main statement This addresses Mr. Hilton's comments. 01:03:22
That in the last public hearing. 01:03:27
That the C code. 01:03:32
Just references residential zones, so our code currently says single family zones. 01:03:33
So we're renewing single family and just adding. 01:03:40
Residential zones. 01:03:43
And we're adding detached structures. So then adus being added to two classes and family multi family units. 01:03:45
Are not permitted. 01:03:55
Yeah, previously we actually. 01:03:58
There's our one zones, but by state code it says all residential zones. 01:04:01
Single family residences shall be able to have. 01:04:06
This is the one that we really should change. 01:04:10
Does that include an art two zone? 01:04:16
Yes, you have. If it does have a single family house on it in our two zone, yes it does. 01:04:19
It wouldn't include, no. 01:04:26
So it has to be a detached structure. So if you have an R2 zone and it's an attached unit, SO2 units duplex. 01:04:29
You can't do an expensive. 01:04:37
So the qualifier is that it only applies to detached structures. 01:04:40
Because you could have a detached single family home that's in a. 01:04:45
Multi family Residential. 01:04:50
They can add an accessory welding unit. 01:04:53
All right. Next one. 01:05:01
Property owner on site. So our existing language just states with the property owner living on site. 01:05:05
We added additional language which requires owner occupancy by the property owner or an immediate family member. 01:05:13
The Planning Commission wanted to narrow that down to immediate family member. 01:05:22
Originally proposed. 01:05:27
Wider definition of family member. 01:05:29
We're fine with a narrow definition they wanted to have. Like if you have grandpa that owns property, maybe. 01:05:32
This father daughter can live in the house and still have an accessory well unit. 01:05:39
So they would fall under that definition of because they are. 01:05:44
Directly related as. 01:05:49
Do I have the language in there? It's. 01:05:53
Grandmother. Grandfather. 01:05:56
A son, daughter. 01:05:59
I don't think it's easy that queue. 01:06:01
Grandkids first level of relationship. 01:06:06
And that's if I get their code like it's spelled out what relationships are are in there. 01:06:11
Owner occupied requires full time residency, so that adds additional clarification. 01:06:17
From our existing language, there was like the three-year. 01:06:24
Is that device in state language is what will? 01:06:32
Typically under taxation purchases. 01:06:36
So I think it seemed after reside in your house as rigorous and store. 01:06:39
182 days a year, whatever more than six months is. 01:06:45
So that just requires the full residency and um. 01:06:51
We added language for occupancy some cities. 01:06:58
Want to limit the occupancy? We didn't want to get into limiting occupancy. 01:07:04
And that was the Planning Commission brought up like. 01:07:12
Well, what is that? 01:07:15
Code is. 01:07:19
You're not limiting occupancy to only two or only three. 01:07:20
That's the changes with kind of the ownership exceptions for military jobs, volunteer service. 01:07:28
Any questions on that one? 01:07:38
All right. 01:07:41
So can I just clarify when you say that for, excuse me, the staff recommendation works well, again, there's an evolution. 01:07:45
What's the frequency of these like? 01:07:54
Well, the frequency is more. 01:08:03
To the denials, we get a lot. 01:08:06
Maybe 20% of my. 01:08:14
How many applications? 01:08:15
Well, it's the people call and ask about it and we have a conversation saying you have to have it on have paper larger. 01:08:17
And so there's just for two times a lot of steps, yes. So do you see you get. 01:08:26
We get people in all the time I was. 01:08:33
We had we had at least two applications that we denied 0.48 and .46 acres we have. 01:08:36
People that are looking for and it's typically like I'm looking for a place for my mother-in-law to come live that has some work, 01:08:45
right? 01:08:50
In our 110 zone. 01:08:55
On what .48 and R110? 01:08:57
.48 in Norwin 10. 01:09:03
To have twice the minimum lot size. 01:09:08
Yes, I think they will. 01:09:12
Possibly. 01:09:15
R115 or something? 01:09:18
So I would suspect at least. 01:09:21
Four to six a week. 01:09:23
So once this changes. 01:09:27
That's going to generate a lot of. 01:09:31
Well, depending on how many. 01:09:34
All right, Parking. So right now our code is. 01:09:42
Calls for one additional on site parking spot. 01:09:46
We changed to. 01:09:50
If additional bedrooms are being added outside of the existing footprint of the house, and that doesn't matter if you're adding 01:09:52
on. 01:09:56
3 bedrooms as an Adu to reserve the same structure or three bedrooms in a detached structure. 01:10:00
Adding parking that's tied to the upper bedrooms that you're adding is that, is that. 01:10:08
Based on like how you would do it if someone's doing a remodel. This is a similar kind of remodel, so. 01:10:14
If they're just remodeling their their space. 01:10:20
We don't require additional parking there, but it's. 01:10:25
If they're adding on specifically to do an accessory welding unit. 01:10:28
And you're kind of adopting like the RM standards, it's parking standards that are political in any zone, OK? 01:10:32
Because the Planning Commission's. 01:10:40
Recommendation was. 01:10:43
Based on bedrooms, which is kind of a. 01:10:45
Parking standards It applies to RMR 2. 01:10:49
All of our excuse zones if you're adding. 01:10:53
Living units. Your parking spaces are tight. How many bedrooms? So it's one bedroom is 1 parking space, 2 bedrooms is 1 spaces. 01:10:56
So they would just have to have. 01:11:08
Those additional parking spaces instead of just. 01:11:11
And our current language also has no on street parking for Edu's. 01:11:15
So I'm sorry, can you explain the difference between your recommendation of the Planning Commission because. 01:11:22
Feels like what you explained similar to it. 01:11:28
Yeah, we didn't have the changes for the parking in the code. 01:11:30
Commission wanted to have some additional regulations for parking. 01:11:35
To adding. 01:11:40
External EU or adding? 01:11:42
Onto the structure specific. 01:11:46
Because that's the common issue with parking. Is common conservative neighbors when 80s are being built or are they going to park? 01:11:50
So how do you feel about their animation? 01:11:55
It makes sense. 01:12:01
And what's the internal Adu requirement for parking? It's just one off site, so that would stay the same. 01:12:04
Just because you're seeing that in terms of what an existing house is? 01:12:12
You're already going to have parking already tied to. 01:12:16
Currently so this is more than internal. 01:12:23
It's expanding outside of what the existing is. 01:12:28
So since you're adding more bedrooms on specifically for an accessory unit. 01:12:32
That's when you trigger then the additional parking requirements. 01:12:37
So it was their consensus that this was OK, or was this a point of contention? 01:12:45
This one looks fine. OK, that's great. 01:12:50
External Adu minimum lot size. 01:12:54
Current language is. 01:12:59
Be located on a lot of record measuring twice minimum or a minimum. 01:13:01
Commonly what we see on half acre and larger lots is that people would typically build a guest house with a larger footprint on 01:13:07
it. It's suitably larger properties that can't be subdivided because they're in. 01:13:13
A1 acre bottom or two acre, whatever that might be. 01:13:20
So, and since they can't subdivide it like mobile build a guest house and my kids will live here, we've done several conditional 01:13:24
use permit support. 01:13:28
Increasing the low print size for a guest house. 01:13:34
For that kind of situation. 01:13:36
Typically with your larger lots of points, the larger. 01:13:39
Structures that are being built. 01:13:42
Most commonly for family user, they're not going to build it. 01:13:44
2000 Square House. 01:13:49
So just they use. 01:13:52
Intent is typically different on larger properties things. 01:13:54
So stop. 01:13:59
Staff recommendation was because accessory building footprints are regulated based off of the footprint size. 01:14:03
Proportional when you have a smaller watch. 01:14:15
Smaller accessory building. 01:14:18
So that was kind of the logic behind that. That's all we watched. 01:14:20
You're going to have smaller structure coverage percentage allowed. 01:14:24
Just like to build a giant house on. 01:14:28
Small lots you wouldn't be able to do like a big house and a big accessory, so. 01:14:30
It balances out with lot coverage and. 01:14:36
So that's where SAP was comfortable. 01:14:41
That let's just have it be on any box and these other regulations that are in place kind of. 01:14:44
Keep that. 01:14:50
Although this could also be one of those potential progression elements where you start here and we. 01:14:53
That's what the Planning Commission would recommend. 01:15:00
Let's start at quarter acre and see how that goes and if we've been. 01:15:03
Reducing up to. 01:15:11
Any lodge for 8000 square foot. 01:15:14
See. 01:15:19
Portions that are typically. 01:15:20
Oscillate the R18 zones are up in here District plan. 01:15:23
Or Drew, sorry. 01:15:27
So those are R18 we have a small section down by. 01:15:30
Highlands. 01:15:36
And I think over in your. 01:15:40
Where I am. 01:15:44
There's just a few small sections that are R18, so that's where you see those. 01:15:51
Yeah, they would likely put in smaller external units, if at all. Yeah, they're already pretty pressed on their last day, so 01:16:01
that's what you're saying. This is allowed R1A. 01:16:07
Yeah, and they want to put DAU on it. 01:16:13
How are they going to do it with block coverage and setbacks? I mean, it's almost right, they can't convert an existing building, 01:16:16
but it's just basically saying why don't we just say 10,000 square feet and then if we want to revisit it, but we're not 01:16:22
comfortable below that. So this was one of the issues that I thought. 01:16:28
Mr. Kemp was saying it was prohibitive for him, right? His property is just under 8000 square feet. So he was he's our 1/8. 01:16:35
His property was originally 8000 square feet, but because of. 01:16:48
Dedication. He's just below 8000. 01:16:53
But if he zoned R18 and we said we're, well, yes. So if we said 8000 square foot lots, he still doesn't hate the regulation. 01:16:57
And that's worth like, yeah, you can still have. 01:17:05
If you reduce that minimum, just not have minimum lot size, it's a meeting all these qualifications. 01:17:07
And looking at the impact. 01:17:15
If you could have the accessory structure, that maybe doesn't have a large impact on neighboring properties. 01:17:18
So what does he have there? That's an issue? Does he have a garage that has so his detached garage? 01:17:26
Has a large house that's fronting onto butternuts and then the small side street is where the detached garage is. 01:17:34
And they detached it so that it can go closer to the property line because and where's the? Where's the dwelling here? 01:17:41
Underneath the rush. So it really purposes it should be an internal dwelling here like that's really is there a way? But is there 01:17:50
a way? 01:17:55
Inside the code to cover that but like. 01:18:01
In terms of how do you define an attachment or? 01:18:04
It's within so many feet of the house. Yeah, that's why he was bringing up IS. 01:18:08
Is there some way to create? 01:18:12
Something in the code that yes it's. 01:18:16
Within a specific distance, the primary. 01:18:19
Then it would be. 01:18:22
Internal. Is that possible? 01:18:25
Yeah, because I see what I know of the house. 01:18:33
And it's certainly not interest to the neighborhood, so I can see where he's coming from. 01:18:37
But I wouldn't want to. 01:18:42
Write code based on. 01:18:44
But this is a good example of where law is a clunky way we do the best we can, right? 01:18:48
Right came down to existing buildings. 01:18:57
So those are kind of the elements that were proposed. 01:19:03
Wasn't necessary. 01:19:12
So if we adopted the staff recommendations, this. 01:19:20
Here. 01:19:27
The staff recommendation is. 01:19:34
All the staff. 01:19:40
What about when you said conversion of existing buildings would be a conditional use? 01:19:42
And that would that's a staff recommendation as well. So that's that additional, yeah, it's an additional oversight that. 01:19:48
We're not just going to outright permit conversion of the accessory buildings, we want to have those reviewed by the planning to 01:19:55
look at what are the specific impacts. 01:20:00
Of this existing structure. 01:20:06
What does what impact does that have on the neighbors and how are we going to address those? 01:20:09
It could cover any conversion of the existing, but it's already. 01:20:17
And he he could have played. 01:20:24
Might be difficult to mitigate. 01:20:26
Why would we not want to go that route? 01:20:28
Like why would the Planning Commission not support that? 01:20:35
To me it leaves all of the controls in place to allow for. 01:20:39
The conditions to be right for it and the conditions are right for it. Let me get to that right. 01:20:44
Yeah, and so you have to drop the specific conditions. 01:20:48
They might be twice, so if you're not going to a person, well it's impact based. You have to have conditioning uses are best. 01:20:53
Deny implement conditions can't be migrated. 01:21:02
Are shown to not be able. 01:21:05
There is some arbitrariness. 01:21:09
So we could still go this route here or code that discuss the automatic stand approval and Mr. Kent could still get what he wants 01:21:13
through the conditioned use. 01:21:19
Process if you can show that the. 01:21:25
But the impacts are especially mitigated. 01:21:29
Where you can have any. So another way to address that minimum block size too is you could keep the 10,000 as permitted. 01:21:32
Lots less than 10,000 square feet could be a conditional. 01:21:40
I think that's a good idea, yeah. I think because I think everybody here agrees that. 01:21:46
Right. We don't. 01:21:52
There's no issue with this House, but yet the way we have to write our code. 01:21:55
Can we make a path? 01:22:02
Say, look. 01:22:04
There's exceptions to this that we have to be able to. 01:22:06
Use our best judgment and say, look, the intention was to do this. This doesn't violate any of those intentions, so. 01:22:10
So the logging is still not for away. 01:22:18
That just doesn't get the automatic standard goes through the additional steps to make it happen. 01:22:22
Enough applications, so the Planning Commission then we should reevaluate, we come back and release that requirement and get 01:22:28
another check box. 01:22:32
So how do we say keep to 10,000 feet? And then what would we write into the code? 01:22:40
To allow some flexibility there. 01:22:45
And then you have to write up the conditions or. 01:22:50
Oh, oh, well, there you go. 01:22:57
Yeah, are you guys any conditional use impacts already built in here? 01:23:00
It's pretty generic list that makes a lot of sense. 01:23:04
Do you feel like I mean? 01:23:08
That his situation. 01:23:10
Would be allowed given the current. 01:23:13
Probably. 01:23:15
There's an exiting. There's a door issue. 01:23:17
But that's mitigated. 01:23:24
People ******* out their front door into someone elses backyard where this is below Gray so that might need to be a. 01:23:28
In addition to the languages below, grade exits or entrances because you might have like. 01:23:37
For the entrance, that's probably not going in there, yeah. 01:23:44
Next one. 01:23:54
Bed bath. 01:23:59
OK, so existing is compiled with setbacks letter to standard in our code. 01:24:03
Our code existing code does have an additional 25% set back required for external data use. 01:24:10
The changes by Planning Commission wanted to put a minimum set back of 10 feet on all parcels greater. 01:24:20
Well, that would be. 01:24:30
Oh yeah, so they were, they're drawing the line at 10,000 square foot, so. 01:24:34
At least 10 feet on all parcels and then that would increase as the parcel size. 01:24:38
What up? 01:24:45
I don't think I have the table in here. It's in the. 01:24:48
And the code modifications, but it makes it really clear on the proposed text you see the changes on that 25% column. 01:24:52
Increase from I think it starts at like 5 or 6 feet and it goes 10 feet for the first three and it goes I think to 12 feet. 01:25:02
Will this be another one of those? 01:25:13
This can be this. 01:25:15
Rubber stamp standard attendant. 01:25:17
Should less than that would be a conditional use or is that this be a harder hurdle, the conditional use mitigation blah blah 01:25:19
blah. Yeah, from my point of view that this is a little bit harder because. 01:25:24
Once you start moving those primary structure, the ancillary structure property line. 01:25:29
Usually, inevitably, you're going to get something else that's replacing it. 01:25:35
Swimming pool court. 01:25:39
Where those might be situated elsewhere. 01:25:41
Especially when you had a conflict of the primary building probably having more restrictive setbacks than what the. 01:25:46
Yeah, vice versa, yeah. 01:25:53
Yeah, when you're looking at what this looks like, you're going to have. 01:25:57
He has to push the building away, but you're going to have a 10 foot kind of gutter around your building. They're going to push 01:26:01
it. 01:26:06
Probably into a corner of a yard 10 feet on. 01:26:11
Verse 510 feet on the side. Can it just be used for landscaping? Likely. 01:26:15
But it's it's a pretty significant business. 01:26:23
Especially where you're if you're looking at. 01:26:28
Typical layouts of properties. 01:26:31
It's all backyard, so you have a 25 to 35 foot set back on each rear yard. 01:26:33
And you have increasing distance requirements for additional height. 01:26:40
So some of the staff recommendations. 01:26:47
You could just leave it at the 25%. 01:26:51
Required for externally uses in existing code. 01:26:54
You could. 01:27:01
Consider that you could leave a 10 foot set back on the rear side and then have the side setbacks meet. 01:27:04
The primary structure setbacks. 01:27:12
So that might be. 01:27:15
That makes the Amy. 01:27:17
If you're meeting the primary structure or the lesser of primary structure, set back or MP. 01:27:20
That makes a lot of sense. 01:27:27
Or there might be in this situation where the lot. 01:27:31
May not be impacting the neighbors. 01:27:33
All especially in. 01:27:36
Your neighborhood when you. 01:27:38
Set back doesn't make sense or against that winkle. 01:27:42
That makes sense, right? 01:27:47
They probably you could use process in that situation as well, right if there's if the backside is. 01:27:49
Family cooler 'cause that should be right in all those characteristics, but it might be easier. 01:27:58
Or. 01:28:04
Order in. 01:28:06
Residential. 01:28:08
Could you just say it that way? And and? 01:28:11
Or it could just be that similar process to additional use permit for a. 01:28:14
For building footprint size for an accessory building, those are required to go to a conditional use if they're larger size. 01:28:23
So if you want a. 01:28:30
Set back that's smaller than 10 feet. 01:28:32
So having specific things that. 01:28:38
You can get a conditional use permit. 01:28:45
If you want the various reductions. 01:28:48
Similar to what we had, we had for a larger footprint size. 01:28:54
That makes sense to me, except for where it's a budding, a non residential area. I feel like that's something that we could just 01:28:59
just include because. 01:29:03
That just was like another hurdle and I feel like. 01:29:07
Why would we not? 01:29:10
Give somebody back. 01:29:11
I don't know, maybe you guys have the best definition or is there a reason that's something that we could change just in our 01:29:13
accessory building setbacks overall is. 01:29:17
Because that would be applicable for any A. 01:29:23
Garage. That's a good idea. 01:29:28
If you have a. 01:29:31
Attracting or abutting use, that is. 01:29:33
Now if you already, you already have. 01:29:43
Accessory Accessory. 01:29:50
Buildings. 01:29:53
Now we're just talking about dwelling buildings. 01:29:55
So now if you because connecting the situation, somebody really hasn't out. 01:29:58
Outbuilding. It's not as long just an accessory building. It's right up against the fence line. 01:30:03
I mean, the impact is. 01:30:09
People are having their assessing dwelling unit. 01:30:12
Overlooking someone's empty backyard, but someone already has a. 01:30:15
Garage, right on the back fence line. That's not a dwelling unit. Who cares if you have 10 feet, isn't there? 01:30:19
So we're getting into a lot of weird conditions. 01:30:26
But I think we, I mean like Greg, you still have to come up with what's the river stamp versus what's the conditional use permit. 01:30:29
But yeah, he. 01:30:37
You want to make additional use being overly common when our whole goal is to get out of there. Well, that's what I'm wondering 01:30:39
about. If like it's not residential, then that feels pretty straightforward. And then for the situation as you're talking about, 01:30:45
yeah, so maybe that we're OK with the 10 feet, but then in part of the condition use permit if you look at. 01:30:52
What is it overlooking? 01:30:59
Sure. You know, if it's overlooking a backyard, well, you might have a problem. 01:31:01
When I go closer. 01:31:04
But if you're if you're butting up against an RN zone and it's the parking lot bookings or if you're even up against a. 01:31:06
About any single family home. 01:31:14
Zone, but if they already have their own. 01:31:16
Accessory building. 01:31:19
Who cares? 01:31:22
That kind of setback issue would be applicable for accessory only. Use accessory buildings overall, I think, so we could just put 01:31:29
it into our setback code of accessory buildings overall if they're a budding. 01:31:36
Whatever specific uses of. 01:31:44
These non residential uses those. 01:31:49
Properties could have an accessory building that is. 01:31:52
On a property bank or. 01:31:56
So I think you know the objective. 01:31:59
Yeah, what you can write into code that's rubber stand? Great. 01:32:01
What you think should go to conditional use and. 01:32:05
Provide flexibility without having to ****** up the code. 01:32:08
Does that sound good? 01:32:12
Exactly. 01:32:15
Maximum height. 01:32:30
Existing code for accessory buildings is a 20 foot maximum height. 01:32:33
The changes that the Planning Commission approved was. 01:32:41
They wanted to see the big space only on route. 01:32:45
On parcels that are smaller than half an acre, what's defined as a living space? Bedrooms. OK, so if you have like a game room or 01:32:50
something above the garage that does. 01:32:54
It would be more like that, probably. Living space, yeah. 01:32:59
By the building code center is all concerned. 01:33:17
You can't exclude. 01:33:21
Well, so then are we saying that we can't go above a garage? Really. 01:33:23
Yes. 01:33:30
Unless you bring your structure in far enough. 01:33:33
Edge So first you have a massive lot size really. 01:33:37
Well, of course we. 01:33:41
How do we deal with? 01:33:43
The current code does not. This is. 01:33:47
Changes to bring it down to ground level. 01:33:50
Current code just says 20 feet, same as any accessory building but 20 feet, but it could be up or down. 01:33:53
Yeah, any part of the structure. 01:34:01
So the change is have to be on the ground level. 01:34:04
If you're even, if you're 20 feet, you. 01:34:10
You can still build a 20 foot structure, but you can't have any living space. 01:34:13
In the area, yes. So you can. 01:34:17
Apartment or garage, Yeah. 01:34:20
Unless you move your building in or under factory. 01:34:23
Yeah. 01:34:29
That has a family room above. 01:34:31
And they were trying to prevent that overlooking into. 01:34:37
A little bit of background on the 20 foot height. We spent a lot of time in 2015 to get to that number. 01:34:43
That is just enough. 01:34:49
Upper level story. 01:34:53
It's not a lot of height to get like a second level. 01:34:54
It's just enough to get. 01:34:59
Bonus space up above your garage. 01:35:01
Studio something pretty small with cables. 01:35:04
That was the whole issue with my neighbor Mike. You were when we went to the double. 01:35:08
Bob size because he had blink 48, Maryland 10. 01:35:12
He wanted to put. 01:35:16
Alien sister in a over the garage apartment. 01:35:18
This would cause a problem, at least in terms of rubber stamp. I suppose even he might have had a. 01:35:23
Conditional use because I think his garage. 01:35:29
Was on the. 01:35:31
The circle side, not overlooking a backyard side. 01:35:33
Oh, that's yeah, that's true. 01:35:38
So that's that note on the on the building right there. 01:35:40
A lot of people are. 01:35:45
Want to do any cash? We have some older houses that don't have attached brushes or they're looking for an additional space. It's a 01:35:46
good way to meet parking requirements for the Adu when you're building an additional garage. 01:35:52
Cost effective? It makes sense to add a living unit if you're already building any cash garage. 01:35:59
So that's where the staff recommendation for. 01:36:04
Allowing up to 25 feet. 01:36:08
At 20 feet, people who want to build a garage with the unit above it, they just do a flat roof. 01:36:10
The extra 5 piece typically just adds for that architectural feature of having a history. 01:36:16
You still gotta meet like graduated. 01:36:22
High requirements. 01:36:26
Relationship to the setbacks, right? Her relationship with property life. But yeah, I mean, it seems to me like. 01:36:28
That's the most common. 01:36:34
Use of an Eau you're going to get is. 01:36:37
Put in the nice apartment above the garage as opposed to the. 01:36:40
In the back, but we're still keeping it on larger parcels right this half acre. 01:36:45
Going up, they couldn't recover. It would be on any. 01:36:50
So what would assure the? 01:36:59
Maintaining graduated, Graduated high. 01:37:03
So and the next letter? Dresses. That plan Commission was to reduce the graduated height or accessory buildings. 01:37:06
So we'll get into that on the next one, but that would provide a lot of the control for that. 01:37:15
For the additional rate. 01:37:21
And really, that additional 5 feet is going to be this room. 01:37:22
So it avoids having a flat root structure. 01:37:26
Typically, people don't love. 01:37:30
Yeah, so it's. Yes, it's extra, right? So it's probably more acceptable visual heights than if they built a. 01:37:40
I mean my issue is if they build a. 01:37:53
Eadu. 01:37:56
Like they want to build a garage. 01:37:58
Of a 10,000 foot lot. 01:38:00
They're still going to have block coverage issues and set back issues. It's going to be hard to do anyway, right? 01:38:03
Just because having it. 01:38:10
But if they can, then they can. 01:38:12
Meet all their requirements. 01:38:14
Why would you want to? 01:38:17
Putting the EE 8. 01:38:18
The AU of the garage. 01:38:20
It's a good it's a good use of flash when you have garage that addresses your. We're still only talking about detached garages, 01:38:24
right? Because if it's attached, garage is not external. 01:38:28
Yeah, and then later we get to where the windows are and everything, because that was the other privacy issue that. 01:38:33
So I would agree with staff on that. 01:38:38
On the 25. 01:38:41
And you could still keep all accessory buildings at 20 feet, but that extra 5 foot bonus for the. 01:38:43
You're adding an accessory unit. 01:38:50
So keeping keeping toy. 01:38:56
25 or accessory buildings that have a unit they're going to if they're going to provide housing, right? Yeah. 01:39:01
Yeah, you look at garages today. Maybe you'll have something to build this. 01:39:15
2000 square foot garage but. 01:39:30
Likely 900 square feet, which is. 01:39:32
Let's see, did we hit all the points on that? 01:39:42
I think so. I just want to make sure that I understand. So currently they can go 20, but what you're recommending is 25 for the 01:39:45
pitch group like that's. 01:39:49
Sorry, one text on here. 01:39:59
Looks like we've got what? Three more? Four more? 01:40:02
We can get through them. 01:40:05
Lot coverage, super easy, so we just added. 01:40:08
A reference to lock coverage compliance code. 01:40:12
2nd floor windows. 01:40:16
Our current code did not include any language about second floor windows. 01:40:18
The new changes have. 01:40:23
Address windows on the rear and side property lines for a second floor. 01:40:26
Windows. 01:40:31
So if you have. 01:40:33
Safety cash garage living unit above it on the second floor. 01:40:35
If you're. 01:40:40
Within 10 feet of a property line, then your windows have to be at least six feet off the ground. 01:40:42
Or on the floor of that second, so that accounts for some windows as opposed to. 01:40:49
Yeah. And that that would be applicable just on career anti property. 01:40:57
OK. 01:41:05
I didn't realize that was in there. I'm sorry. That's OK That's going to create a problem with building code compliance you can't 01:41:08
have. 01:41:11
Right. If you have bedrooms, you have to have. 01:41:17
So they might have to find me. 01:41:22
You know, you got to have that, and I think it's maybe it's Windows that open. 01:41:25
So you have to have. 01:41:32
You have to have an honorable window for building code. 01:41:34
That is awesome and I'm just wondering if. 01:41:37
What's the? I think this could probably match the primary structure, so requirements as opposed to being. 01:41:44
And because you've got a primary structure, that's. 01:41:50
No, Messiah, you've gotten a 10 foot right, and those windows don't have to be over 6 feet, right? Right. So can we sort of just 01:41:53
match? 01:41:58
Primary window regulation What do we need to do with ADUS for Windows? 01:42:04
To be different just from the primary structure. The presenters build their house at that point anyways, yeah. 01:42:10
And I'm not sure if we need. 01:42:15
This once we're looking at the graduated height, because if we're only looking at windows around the 2nd floor, what would the 01:42:17
reduced graduated height? It pushes the building, Pushes it back anyway could go that distance anyway, penalizing the Edu. I think 01:42:24
it's an unnecessary rate. 01:42:31
All right. Graduated heights. So currently we don't have any. 01:42:41
Reference to graduated code. 01:42:49
Existing is 8 feet and I think everyone is familiar with my graduated night works. Please explain it. I just want to make sure 01:42:53
that what I yeah so. 01:42:59
You take at the property line, you go up 8 feet, so it's like putting the fence of eight feet on the property line and then it's a 01:43:05
45° angle over from that 8 foot mark. 01:43:10
And that is your intersection point. 01:43:16
So naturally with your angle, the closer your building gets, the shorter it has to be. So you have to move your building way 01:43:19
further. 01:43:23
To increase an eggs, right? 01:43:27
And is that really standard code? 01:43:29
Across most like. 01:43:32
Is that very unique holiday or is that something? 01:43:34
It was. 01:43:40
Mill Creek copied our code. 01:43:44
For their Marcus residential. 01:43:47
Building is normally traditionally when it's called. 01:43:56
What's the difference between this and the graduated height of a regular house? So the regular house would be 8 feet. Proposed 01:44:02
language reduces that to six feet for an accessory building or for a. 01:44:10
Accessory. 01:44:18
So you can see the difference that that makes on. I gave a couple of examples. 01:44:21
If you have a. 01:44:27
Accessory building that has a 5 foot set back. 01:44:29
And that six foot graduated height. 01:44:32
Your intersection point is 11 feet. 01:44:35
So you're 11 or single level? 01:44:38
With that, so you'd have to move further away. 01:44:42
To get up to a second floor anyway. 01:44:46
So if you want 18 feet of wall height for two levels. 01:44:48
Your structure is going to be 12 feet off the property line, naturally. 01:44:53
So it just keeps you from getting too intrusive to your neighbor. So is that more restrictive than if it was? 01:44:58
Yes. 01:45:07
To be the same if that six wouldn't have to be, would just be 8 to 8. 01:45:09
Is it necessary? 01:45:14
So did the staff have an issue with that? 01:45:18
I think that was something that they brought up. 01:45:21
The geometry doesn't work for these smaller buildings. For bigger buildings it works because you have bigger setbacks. 01:45:27
So because it's. 01:45:33
One foot up for one foot in. 01:45:36
If you have the five foot set back. 01:45:39
Comes out to 11 feet. 01:45:41
That's barely your first floor. 01:45:43
That's fairly a garage. 01:45:46
Usually the top of your garage is 13 feet. 01:45:49
So then you start immediately moving it away just to make your garage work. 01:45:52
But that is also a very common complaint that we get from people, neighboring residents of oh, there's this really big structure, 01:45:58
so. 01:46:03
For the when we back up the week. 01:46:09
Talked about the. 01:46:12
The foot. 01:46:15
Right as the rubber stamp. 01:46:17
And unless that is additional use is that we decided on that one. I can't track. What do we decide on that? 01:46:19
Anything closer is initially okay, so then we want this to. 01:46:26
How to be synchronous with that right, So if the Planning Commission approves something closer? 01:46:32
This will still apply in very much restrict the height of that building, so we probably want to have. 01:46:40
The rubber stamp synchronous, but then the conditional uses. 01:46:48
Then the geometric. 01:46:53
They will be so hard to administer in this kind of a format because. 01:47:01
The law requires we have objective standards. 01:47:10
To guide your condition to use and. It says that if the conditions can be substantially mitigated, they're entitled to the 01:47:14
condition. 01:47:18
Right. And that. 01:47:22
Substantial mitigate means is. 01:47:24
Not certain enough for me to feel like you're going to get results that are. 01:47:28
A predictable BE. 01:47:34
Truly mitigating. 01:47:37
In most cases and I think you could end up with a lot of challenges on that, so. 01:47:39
I think you would look. 01:47:44
Better at ordinances that have exception standards. 01:47:45
Like your set back is 10 feet unless. 01:47:49
Your Adu is. 01:47:52
Bad enough against it not having the structure. 01:47:54
You know your set back on the side is. 01:47:59
15 feet. 01:48:01
You're going to have, I think you're looking, more exceptions in the air conditioning uses. 01:48:08
If you want to have. 01:48:12
Enforceable ordinance. 01:48:14
That will work. 01:48:16
And that's hard. It's going to be complex, but I think that's a better approach than conditional use. So when you talk about the 01:48:18
simple standard. 01:48:21
Rubber stamp or. 01:48:25
I think instead of conditional use approach you probably be talking about, This is where you get a rubber stamp. 01:48:28
Here's the exceptions. So we can push into some of those areas or go up or. 01:48:33
Whatever that might be. 01:48:39
Right. So then that backs up. 01:48:41
Instead of doing the initial use for the less than 10. 01:48:45
We've got to delineate what are the circumstances where you can go less than 10. I think that's a better approach for you, which 01:48:50
is, which is essentially just the way to stack it in the 1st place. Sure, the 25% instead of the 10. 01:48:56
You want to backpack that then? 01:49:04
Go back to the. 01:49:06
1st we were thinking about doing that. 10 is how it counted uninhabitable. 01:49:09
Scenario. I mean, there are different things you can do, yeah, that's one obviously, right. 01:49:14
Garage sort of on their back property line. I want to put an Edu back there. 01:49:20
You know it's not having the structure. It's not. 01:49:26
Looks like like. 01:49:31
I think the additional use process because the legal standard is. 01:49:35
Unless the conditions can be substantially mitigated, it has to be granted. 01:49:38
You're going to have problems administering that overtime. 01:49:42
I think you will. 01:49:45
End up with the situation where Planning Commission motion that looks something to say no. 01:49:47
But legally they're going to be entitled because it's not. 01:49:53
Holy made it. She actually made it. We don't know what that means. Presumptions generally run. 01:49:56
To the property owners and free use of land and not the regulating agency, I just think it gets to be. 01:50:01
Less secure method of. 01:50:07
So you open up the conditional use door, it's just going to be opened and I really feel like it's going to end up being that way. 01:50:10
Do you feel like that's also the case with the box size? 01:50:15
Because we had talked about using that, so. 01:50:21
If you can have any of you. 01:50:24
10,000 feet. If you're less than that, it's a conditional use. 01:50:27
He's like, that's the same thing where we need to. 01:50:30
If you can set objective standards for conditional use. In that case, I like it a little better than some of the dimensional 01:50:33
controls. 01:50:36
But it still presents the same kind of legal problem. 01:50:40
It's not any different in the analysis, big picture. 01:50:43
And ordinances with all those exceptions are hard to write. 01:50:47
From the state's point of view. 01:50:53
They're considering accessory dwelling units. 01:50:55
Across the world by right. 01:50:58
Do you think cities are going to start moving toward conditional situations are going to be targeted? 01:51:00
Yeah, they do. And I've heard no. 01:51:05
I haven't heard any discussion of the external Adu stuff. 01:51:08
I heard whispers of it. 01:51:13
The same year discussion. 01:51:16
But I have heard much about the external. 01:51:18
So we're looking at. 01:51:23
Exception could be. 01:51:28
That it's the hard. 01:51:30
Building footprint size. 01:51:33
So, oh, that makes. 01:51:35
Yeah, so currently. 01:51:36
You have building footprint, all those smaller properties for accessory buildings and get 700 or 750 square feet. 01:51:39
So they no conditional use. 01:51:46
Permit for an accessory building size. 01:51:49
So you're it's hard limited to this. 01:51:51
On those lots, so that would meet Mr. Kent. 01:51:56
Exception, but it would also not create the conditional. 01:51:59
So you could pay a specific square footage for externally use on a lot smaller than 10,000 square feet. So that's setting a 01:52:04
standard instead of having it go to a conditional use. 01:52:09
So back to this one. 01:52:17
Are you saying that the six? 01:52:19
Graduated high. 01:52:23
Isn't workable. 01:52:25
I don't think it is, architecturally. 01:52:26
I think it should be the same standard that is, yeah, for the rest of the prime rank regular. 01:52:36
But it still limits the height to 25 feet, right? And as they graduated and usually those R ones are. 01:52:42
What, 32 feet? 01:52:49
What's in our one height? 01:52:51
What is it the same for? 01:52:55
15,035. 01:53:01
But regardless, that's going to be capped at 25. 01:53:05
Well, we just have to. 01:53:11
The planning would have to go against Planning Commission recommendation, 16 said they said look. 01:53:13
Fake things it's not. 01:53:19
They were trying to accomplish. 01:53:22
Making sure that it's. 01:53:28
Put in prayer, Ashley. 01:53:30
So the the 80s can still do that? 01:53:33
Because that's what we run into, particularly if we. 01:53:38
Can. 01:53:49
With the 8 foot intersection. 01:53:50
Is that an additional? 01:53:53
Yeah, just their recognition is to have a. 01:53:56
Yeah. 01:54:07
All right, this is the section on conversion of existing accessory buildings. 01:54:17
Yes, last one. 01:54:24
So. 01:54:27
When we looked at it and said OK, here are some potential issues that existing. 01:54:28
Accessory buildings may have that we need to. 01:54:34
They don't hear any standards. 01:54:37
Will your accessory building that you're converting these standards? 01:54:39
If not, how are they going to be addressed? 01:54:43
And Planning Commission. 01:54:48
They were wary. 01:54:51
Converting. They recognize that there's probably a lot of. 01:54:53
Measures that are right next to property lines. 01:54:57
Solid county work. There's much smaller than what they are currently. 01:55:02
So they just said, you know, right? 01:55:06
We're not comfortable with. 01:55:09
Temporary existing existing accessory structures. 01:55:11
So we didn't even get into discussing. 01:55:15
Any of the standards that were. 01:55:19
So you sat you basically saying if. 01:55:22
You've got if you've got an accessory building out there. 01:55:25
If it doesn't meet the standards we've discussed previously, it can't be if there's no exceptions. 01:55:29
They don't have an entitled right to convert that to grandfather. 01:55:34
So, but if you're requiring that they need to set back requirements, then what was the planning commissions concern? 01:55:40
So there was. 01:55:49
Because you said you've got to meet holidays so existing, I see what you're seeing. Structures might not meet the setbacks. 01:55:52
So the standards that are proposed in the. 01:56:01
Code or if it doesn't meet the setback standards that you have to provide mitigation. 01:56:05
With landscaping. 01:56:11
Or other? 01:56:14
So how about the Windows? 01:56:15
Adding now adding. 01:56:18
And that would be another problem issue. 01:56:21
I wonder if we do. 01:56:33
Maybe put a pin in this one? 01:56:34
Hurt now because it does feel like it could be more complicated and move ahead with the other ones. 01:56:38
I don't know or. 01:56:44
Some of them like that are. 01:56:48
Really straightforward, easy. But then you get into your. 01:56:49
Bigger ones are. 01:56:54
Setbacks. 01:56:57
So which ones do you cover? Spouse? 01:57:00
Which ones do you feel like are straightforward? 01:57:02
Once we're on there and just the clean up language, those are. 01:57:07
That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. I'd be OK with that. 01:57:11
The conversion is a little bit. 01:57:17
For here. 01:57:20
That might I just having a larger discussion about here standards are here. Are there some sort of standards that were not? 01:57:22
They were talking about what exceptions would be willing to make to rights. 01:57:31
Building it next. 01:57:36
EADU, right. Relative to converting, I think I'm OK with the Planning Commission. 01:57:38
Make exceptions for existing structure you got to meet. 01:57:45
Standard for dwelling unit regardless of what's already there. 01:57:48
Are there examples where you're thinking that this one should? 01:57:55
We do have applications like that. 01:57:59
Where somebody has a shed that they want to convert. 01:58:04
Their conversion is going to be small building code standards, but. 01:58:08
Looking at a dwelling unit impact that might have smaller setbacks than what the standards for a new accessory. 01:58:13
Right. 01:58:20
Using a sarcastic example, this would be existing, but would be converted even though it's already set up as living space. 01:58:21
Some people may have like a school house or. 01:58:28
Studio office that they've already built, but it's not. 01:58:32
They can't use. 01:58:36
Living space or a rental units? 01:58:38
Why would we want to approve that if it doesn't need? 01:58:42
The standards that we're putting in place right here. 01:58:46
And that's, that's what what we looked at, OK. 01:58:49
Converting versus. 01:58:53
Maybe we just previously the standards on what are existing. 01:58:55
Is and that. 01:59:00
Addresses the problem in it. 01:59:03
Different way. 01:59:04
You know what? I worry about someone. 01:59:05
With a plan who? 01:59:10
Wants to have a plan for an E Adu. 01:59:13
But that doesn't need standards, so they build the building. It's just an accessory building that's not a dwelling unit. Only then 01:59:16
use the exceptions and do it in phases. So. 01:59:23
I know that there's at least one permit where. 01:59:30
They wanted to do an accessory dwelling unit, but. 01:59:34
Their foundation was born much closer than that extra 25% that's required. 01:59:39
So that would disqualify them so it has a better kitchen. 01:59:44
All the space that you have for like a rental unit, so. 01:59:49
Likely use it for some sort of temporary living space, but. 01:59:52
It doesn't mean the standards by. 01:59:58
So they're conversion incorrect, yeah? 02:00:04
Conversion is. 02:00:07
I think it is. You can convert it. 02:00:09
I think we need to address it. I'm just wondering if maybe not right now. 02:00:16
Yeah, especially if all of your concerns are set back. 02:00:22
Highly massing related. 02:00:26
To use the existing building then. 02:00:28
So get get it done. 02:00:34
Comfortable with right now. 02:00:36
Get codified and then if we want to revisit this piece of it later and do that, it's unfortunate that that's the most 02:00:38
approachable, most affordable way to create. 02:00:43
Right, I know that it bypasses all the concerns we're trying to put in code right now. 02:00:51
And allows a path for future, bypassing it by calling just an accessory unless then converting it to. Unless it works not. 02:00:57
Allow it for structures to. 02:01:07
You know, as an accessory that we'll go. 02:01:09
You know to catch the grandfather case, anything that would build after that implementation. 02:01:11
Where it's, you know, then you don't have. 02:01:16
People trying to workout. 02:01:19
Questions. Do we? 02:01:22
We want how much Grandfather would be doing. 02:01:24
I mean, that's the point, yeah. 02:01:28
Well, or do we allow it? 02:01:30
Can meet all of the setbacks if they have, so if they have a. 02:01:34
Situation where they meet all the other requirements, we can go ahead with that and then they have all these other exceptions, so 02:01:38
we don't allow for those for now. 02:01:42
Could be an incremental approach. You already need the standards, then let's go ahead with that. But if you don't meet the 02:01:47
standards, let's just. 02:01:51
I don't know which I think that. 02:01:56
Issue is converting buildings that don't. 02:02:00
Standard that we don't have to look at and convert it, they said. To meet the safety requirements, the pipe requirement. 02:02:04
Something in place that violates setbacks who graduated high? 02:02:15
Then they want to convert it. I don't think we want to allow that, do we? 02:02:20
So increasing with the implementation of when the current or. 02:02:23
Have you ever seen that like when the existing code percent of X because you'll have Salt Lake County code which is. 02:02:29
Some of those are one foot step back or less up until the 60s, so whatever. 02:02:35
Our existing setbacks. 02:02:41
Went into place. 02:02:43
That could be a comparable place of. 02:02:44
OK, this is the known set back. 02:02:47
Can you say if you qualify under all current setbacks? 02:02:51
Go ahead. 02:02:58
They just might not need the extra 25%. 02:03:03
For. 02:03:08
That would be one that's like. 02:03:11
OK. Is that something that's? 02:03:13
That's usually like a difference of one to two feet. 02:03:16
If it already needs that additional 25%. 02:03:19
But that could be like one bigger cat if. 02:03:25
If you're going to conversion. 02:03:28
And it just needs the standard accessory building. 02:03:30
You're going to mitigate that? 02:03:37
Encroachment of one to two feet. 02:03:39
By. 02:03:43
Different conditionally use world though, right? 02:03:52
Not if you put specific standards in. 02:03:56
So do we have enough to? 02:04:00
Update what we have to bring it to a vote. 02:04:04
I mean, I think what we need to do is probably make the update based on the input you've received. 02:04:10
It great back to work session going through it again. 02:04:15
A little bit on a few things and then we can, because we can kind of come back and maybe think about some of this a little bit to 02:04:20
talk about again on the 25th. 02:04:25
Look at what updates you make based on the input you've received on all these individual items. 02:04:30
And then decide if we want to. 02:04:35
If it's ready to go to vote or not. But again, I don't think there's a big hurry to get this, I vote, so I think we should make 02:04:38
sure we're really comfortable with this because. 02:04:41
It goes into place. I think it's to generate a lot. 02:04:46
And I think staff needs to think about it too, like. 02:04:49
What problems might this create for us? Do we need to make any tweaks before we? 02:04:53
Put it out for a vote. Is it after everything we've talked about today, if you guys have any concerns that you think of later 02:04:58
where you're like? 02:05:02
That you might want to consider these things I would be interested in knowing. 02:05:07
What those are with what we've recommended, OK, yeah, I mean, as long as they're not really substantial. 02:05:10
Go against the original application. I think we can do that. 02:05:17
Things we have to go back to applying on that last one, I would suggest. 02:05:20
Doing a secular traffic the way that you were thinking to accommodate those were built before that happens one to two foot kind of 02:05:25
a thing. 02:05:28
Bringing up like that, we could. 02:05:31
How many times we should be able to burn through everything relatively quickly? I think we have time to discuss that one. I agree 02:05:33
more, but but do it give give us what you think about, I guess that's what I would say. 02:05:38
Yeah, I think we can get. 02:05:44
I think we got a lot of clarification on issues that we had between staff and Planning Commission here. 02:05:45
Finalized, right. So we can. 02:05:51
Red lined into the code. 02:05:54
And review it again on the 25th and then. 02:05:56
See if there's any tweak we want to make and then work towards getting into a vote, whatever that is. 02:05:59
It's the 2nd grade if it's the. 02:06:04
June or 16th, right. I mean, I don't think there's any Russian we want to be right. Just one question. Overall, the premises 02:06:07
conditional use permits. 02:06:11
For situations are you? 02:06:16
Now or let's. 02:06:18
I want to follow Todd's advice regarding We'd rather get exceptions. 02:06:20
Into the language rather than the option of a conditional, use. 02:06:27
As a preference. 02:06:32
And I recognize we don't want to create law around anyone person but. 02:06:34
Would we meet Mr. Kemp's? 02:06:37
With what we've talked about today would. 02:06:40
He'd be able to. 02:06:42
Yeah, I'm going to take the overall purpose is. 02:06:44
That perspective of. 02:06:47
Opportunity for adding an external Edu. 02:06:50
That is contextual based on a property, so it's. 02:06:53
If you have a single family home. 02:06:58
How can you build an external EU? 02:07:01
Even if your property is smaller compared to somebody that was larger. 02:07:05
You just practice proportionately and I think that's. 02:07:09
Looking at it from. 02:07:14
Perfect. Great kind of perspective giving that opportunity to any president. 02:07:15
Once you pursue it and make it work, so having standards in a way. Thank you. 02:07:20
For the work on this. 02:07:34
Hey Tina, you are you turned into a pumpkin? 02:07:39
Yeah, this is a little past my bedtime, but I just wanted to share. 02:07:47
Where budget preparation is at this point. 02:07:52
And address a question that bothering him had asked that our retreat, which was. 02:07:57
Let's think about that kind of study. 02:08:04
Idea And how does that relate to this year's budget? 02:08:10
So I'm looking for some feedback on some specific questions from you. 02:08:14
And just want to share again, this is a chart we looked at in our retreat. 02:08:19
About the slowdown of sales tax growth. 02:08:25
So we've had tremendous growth over the last. 02:08:30
Well, since the middle of fiscal 20. 02:08:34
And that has slowed down with another month of data. 02:08:39
Representing January. 02:08:43
We've seen that slowdown continue. So we were within 10,000 dollars of our budget projection. 02:08:46
And at this point, we're still showing trending a little under our budget. 02:08:53
So based on the direction you gave me at the retreat and whole thing sales tax. 02:08:57
Study for next year's budgets. 02:09:02
The next slide just shows you where the CPI has been. 02:09:06
Since the last time you increased taxes in June of 21. 02:09:13
So looking at year over year? 02:09:21
June 21 to May 22, that was 8.3%. 02:09:25
CPI Growth. 02:09:32
4.1% from June of 22 to May of 23 and then so far June 23 through March. 02:09:34
Of 24, we're at about 2.9%. If we continue for the April, May and June, we'll probably end up about 4% growth. 02:09:43
Pretty sounding 3 year 15% increase in inflation. A little shocked just looking at month by month calculations. So Bureau of Labor 02:09:54
Statistics has another tool that lets you compare. 02:10:02
What would? 02:10:11
$1000. 02:10:13
Bought you in a particular month. 02:10:15
Compared to current day and that. 02:10:18
Just a little bit more, So 1000, sorry. OK, $1000 in June of 21 you need. 02:10:23
$11149 to have the same impact, which is 15%. 02:10:34
So that's where we are over three years in terms of inflation. So hang on to all of that data for a moment as I show you where we 02:10:41
are. 02:10:46
In terms of preliminary revenue, so I started with the approved budget. 02:10:54
For this year of just. 02:10:59
Slightly under $21 million. 02:11:02
Please note this is not comprehensive but just giving you an idea of where we are right now. 02:11:06
You see the sales tax increase and transportation sales tax increase. We are seeing a slight increase in transient room taxes. 02:11:14
We've added another hotel and we're having some balance back in. 02:11:21
Our existing hotels, I think that will be about $50,000. 02:11:28
Our Class C distribution, which went down slightly, seems to be rebounding, so I think we can. 02:11:32
And that's gas tax money. I think we can increase that by about $200,000. 02:11:40
That I'm looking at about $200,000 in interest income and it's just. 02:11:46
Given that's a. 02:11:52
Flip side of the interchange. 02:11:54
I'm glad you borrowed what we did. And so it's nice to just recognize this. So 100,000 in interest income and then we have, at 02:11:58
least at this point, segregated our Class C. 02:12:04
Revenue in a different PKF account and so I think it will be about 175 listing. 02:12:14
We're seeing additional. 02:12:23
Pardon me? 02:12:25
So we get that's a great question on our bond, I think we were under. 02:12:28
Toll. 02:12:34
We're seeing additional facilities rental. 02:12:39
City Hall rentals, I think we can add 10,000 there. More people are switching to Google Fiber and we get 2% of that revenue per 02:12:44
agreement. 02:12:48
We had budgeted previously about 20,000 and it's coming in closer to 60, so that next year. 02:12:54
She returned to traffic school, small increase there and then I'm recognizing that public health grant on the operational side 02:13:01
that you approved earlier this evening. 02:13:06
So overall, I think that's about $600,000 in general fund revenue increases. 02:13:12
You want to go to the next slide. 02:13:21
OK, South side. 02:13:24
That's it. 02:13:32
That's right. That's right. 02:13:38
So sharing some changes that we're anticipating at this point. 02:13:41
Paul mentioned the increase of 6.7%. 02:13:48
Increase of 6 .7% in UFA. 02:13:53
We don't have a firm number yet, but just 6.7% based on our calculations. 02:14:02
Just under 200,000. 02:14:08
You'll remember we made a change earlier this year and how we're providing Emergency Management. 02:14:11
So this reflects the termination of that contract and the additional part time that he's about to actually saving, so that $8000. 02:14:17
A big number? 02:14:27
Next is what we're projecting for ADP increase. 02:14:29
And that is, again, not firm. 02:14:36
But a calculation A calculated increase in just under $800,000. 02:14:40
Is that based on 9/9 percent, based on the 10%, But I backed out our use of because if you just look at our budget number, that 02:14:46
reflects A reduction based on our use of fund balance last year. So this is. 02:14:54
This is total. 02:15:02
The cost of our contract would have been before that unbalance. 02:15:06
Usage and then the cost of our new contract. 02:15:11
I mean can we apply fund balance to that number? So yes, but you know one of the concerns we have. 02:15:15
Because we don't know how. 02:15:29
Our actual employees may end up shifting. 02:15:32
We need to have reserves. 02:15:36
If if we need to. 02:15:39
Make adjustments for for people departing and so that really comes in. 02:15:42
I wish we were in a different position to know what that use might be, but we're not. And so I'm trying to be conservative, I 02:15:48
think. 02:15:52
And I'm hoping the next. 02:15:57
I agree. That's the hard part, the compensated absences that we have to keep in reserve, so if somebody leaves, we pay on their 02:16:03
vacation. 02:16:07
You know, and then 25% are sick. 02:16:12
So if somebody does leave, even if somebody left and went to the county, let's say the county is just announced that they will 02:16:14
honor their Sydney balances based on the 25% whatever they have 80 over so. 02:16:21
I'm not. 02:16:30
I don't know I need. 02:16:32
It's really hard to say. 02:16:33
I think a lot of the people here at holiday are staying and I don't know that I would. 02:16:35
Anticipate many. 02:16:40
But we just don't know. That's a hard part, I mean. 02:16:44
I could have had people go with it. 02:16:47
You know and and. 02:16:49
It could really bring the contact. 02:16:52
How many new seats, you know, new positions that the county had to hire for what this changed? 02:16:55
Right now they're saying 87. 02:17:02
874874 02:17:06
Yeah, they're not going to get there. That's a Yeah, that's a whole other. 02:17:10
We need about. 02:17:15
Half of those to go over. 02:17:16
To keep full staffing in place in EPD. 02:17:20
Which case question whether that thing could happen? I think there are bigger issues going to be. 02:17:23
Being stuck with 10 or 15 Fdes that we can't find spots for. 02:17:31
Forcing the, I mean basically, you know, starting to talk to them about you need to go to the Sheriff's Office, you know? 02:17:38
Right. 02:17:44
But yes, I don't. But we see that. Yeah, we don't know. But I think what you're saying is you'd rather. 02:17:48
You'd rather keep that power dry. 02:17:54
Until that issue clarifies. 02:17:56
And hopefully, hopefully we'll have some more clarification in the next few weeks and I can reduce that number from 76 to. 02:17:59
686, yeah. Yeah. 02:18:10
But in terms of the overall budget picture, it's not huge. What was that bottom line number? 02:18:14
So the bottom line of what our delta is. 02:18:21
Is that what you mean, 48? Yeah. So that's what I'm showing at this point because the difference. 02:18:25
Just a couple of changes I want to highlight for you. 02:18:33
In terms of our overall retirement? 02:18:37
System changes for most employees. 02:18:43
We're seeing a reduction in the retirement payments we make on our employees. 02:18:47
As a city, about $21. 02:18:53
It's because the system it has grown and is healthier than it was a year ago and so are actually already has been reduced. 02:18:56
In all of our systems. 02:19:07
The only caveat to that is that this is just a bit of history about our retirement systems, but employees that were invested 02:19:10
before July 1 of 20. 02:19:16
11 or part of the system called Sherwin and that is just straight pension, 2% per year. 02:19:23
Kind of based on a. 02:19:31
Employees hired after that they have a choice. They can either choose a. 02:19:33
401K option. 02:19:38
Or they can choose what is called a hybrid system that is a little bit tension, a little bit 401K. 02:19:41
And for those employees that are in the hybrid system? 02:19:48
Our portion is going to decrease, but. 02:19:54
You know those employees are going to be required to contribute. 02:19:57
To their own pension system. 02:20:02
This is the although the. 02:20:07
Rules have been in place since 2011. This is the first time they're going to work harder to contribute. That affects 10 of our 02:20:09
employees. 02:20:13
And so whatever increase we provide to them. 02:20:20
At this point. 02:20:25
They'll need to go and upper Senate. 02:20:26
Did any of those 10 fall within that one year window? Yeah, four of them. So we're talking to folks individually. I've sent out 02:20:32
information to employees and haven't gotten a lot of questions about it. 02:20:40
It's pretty small increase but I just wanted to highlight it for you because. 02:20:49
Legislative bodies across the state are trying to grapple with this because it creates this. 02:20:55
Inequity. There's a lot of inequity in ret. 02:21:00
Depending on when you were hired. 02:21:05
But. 02:21:08
There are a couple of solutions that folks have looked at. 02:21:11
One is you give. 02:21:14
An additional 1% just to those Tier 2 hybrid employees? 02:21:16
Which I think then would create a whole other problem with your compensation system. 02:21:23
The other option people have looked at is something we already do, which is provide a match for everyone up to 5% in your 401K. So 02:21:28
if people are contributing to their 401K will match it. 02:21:34
And that's something we already do. 02:21:42
So from my perspective I wouldn't recommend any changes, but you may be hearing about this issue from colleagues and just wanted 02:21:44
to. 02:21:48
Next policy that I'd love some guidance on is. 02:21:56
A cost of living adjustment? What's an appropriate level? 02:22:02
What I've included right now is a 4% cost of living adjustment. 02:22:05
And looking at other cities. 02:22:12
You know, that looks like the range people are looking at, somewhere between 3 and 6%. 02:22:15
Combined. 02:22:22
Merits in many cases are automatic. Yeah, so like. 02:22:30
Cottonwood Heights, Midvale Wolf Have Merits. 02:22:39
Have a 2% merit, so every year you stay work at 2% and then they have colas. 02:22:42
And when I asked them who doesn't get married? 02:22:48
They basically say. 02:22:51
Everybody gets married. 02:22:54
So merit and cola are the same. So they say, well, we're only doing it. 02:22:55
3% cola. 02:23:00
2% merit, right. So you're getting 5%. 02:23:02
And so I consider them to be saying we don't do merit in all of it. 02:23:06
So I think 4% is going to be kind of the. 02:23:12
Landing spot most of we're going to be on some 85% with merits and. 02:23:17
Just kind of imagine inflation exactly. It seems really consistent. 02:23:23
Do we do zero merit period across the board like if there's if there's certain but we didn't market adjustment periodic but not 02:23:28
merit which is the automatic year, an extra year that's one more year of experience to get tax? 02:23:35
So we have in terms of market adjustments, I've just included a placeholder. 02:23:43
Of 30,000 as we looked at our employees. Broad strokes. 02:23:50
Across the board, for the most part. 02:23:55
We have we're right on money for most of the missions. 02:23:58
We have a couple of exceptions that we'll talk about next. 02:24:03
Next week, but that is just a placeholder number in that subject to. 02:24:08
I think we've done a better job of staying on top of that and trying to. We made some pretty big adjustments the last few years of 02:24:16
people that we thought were out of. 02:24:20
Out of range and so now it's just more of. 02:24:25
Maintaining that. 02:24:29
And then see what happens in the market with certain positions. It's a tough market. 02:24:30
We've done a pretty good job with that. 02:24:36
Health insurance changes that. That increases just under 5%. 02:24:40
So our share of that increase is 21. 02:24:46
On the other side I'm showing based on the work of both. 02:24:52
Justice and Joe in advancing her GIS. 02:25:00
I'm pausing that position that you had funded for GIS and this last year and shouldn't action there and then kind of on the flip 02:25:05
side assuming that we're. 02:25:10
We're likely to move forward with the spring lighting, I am assuming. 02:25:17
Seven months. 02:25:22
Of an additional parks and facility. 02:25:23
Likely to be hired for. 02:25:26
Staff, We're staff there. 02:25:30
At this point, I really think we are something John and I have talked about is that if, if. 02:25:39
That. 02:25:46
That would change. That might be a market adjustment. 02:25:50
But at this point, I think we're comfortable holding off. 02:25:59
So overall. 02:26:05
Again, brought strokes. I don't have anything programmed. And yet for I guess we were to leave the still thing we needed to rent 02:26:08
space. There are other things, other changes. 02:26:13
An additional, and it just occurred to me, is. 02:26:20
I think. 02:26:25
At an additional 5 ish $1000 for post transfer to the Arts Council for some content series that's just based on information. Love 02:26:28
to give a sense of whether the council is supported with that and that would increase as well. 02:26:36
But. 02:26:45
That's kind of where we are on the expense side and that creates a gap revenue to expenses of about 150. 02:26:47
So you kind of over like detailed, but if you're looking big picture 10,000 feet if somebody'd. 02:26:56
If I need to explain in under a minute to somebody. 02:27:03
Why we're talking about? 02:27:06
Whatever I mean, to summarize it, it seems to me that inflation. 02:27:10
And the restructuring of up? 02:27:16
If I give those answers, that feels like things that people can get their hands around, but I want to make sure that that's I 02:27:19
think that's right. And that is exactly how I phrase the next part of the conversation. 02:27:25
Which is what we do about this cap so. 02:27:32
There are some choices that you could look at. 02:27:37
If you didn't want to look at an increase to international inflation, you could look at a decrease in our transfer, our ongoing 02:27:41
transfer capital projects fund. 02:27:47
Last year we transferred, in the current year we transferred about $1.2 million. You could look at reducing that. We have a 02:27:53
healthy fund balance and capital projects. 02:27:58
We have a number of projects lined up, but you could pause that transfer or reduce that transfer. 02:28:03
You could use general fund fund balance. I wouldn't recommend that, but that is an option that's available to you. 02:28:11
We could look at some expense side reductions. 02:28:18
I'm not going to get very far with that, but, you know, maybe we could, we could postpone. 02:28:21
Some studies there are. 02:28:27
For a few pockets we could look at, I don't think we'd get much beyond. 02:28:30
$150,000 that's kind of the range I think we could look at without. 02:28:36
Looking at staff, but that option is better available to you. 02:28:41
Or we could look at a. 02:28:46
A heart attack increase. 02:28:50
So we talked about the inflation rate being about 15%. 02:28:53
That's accumulated over three years. It is. 02:29:01
So you could look at it strictly from an inflation standpoint. 02:29:04
You could look at it from a public safety standpoint, so if you were. 02:29:09
Some cities, and I think Mill Creek is an example of a city that does this, that ties their property tax. 02:29:23
To their UK contribution. 02:29:30
So you could look at it strictly from that percentage that would be about a 10%. 02:29:32
So basically their property tax is. 02:29:42
Is tied directly to you. 02:29:46
So as that. 02:29:49
Dollar per dollar or percentage per percentage. 02:29:51
I don't know the answer to it. I think it's dollar for dollar. I think it's whatever the dollar because if you look at our 02:29:55
property tax right now, it would about. 02:29:59
Align with DPD card, so that's their justification. So. 02:30:04
They'll go out every year for truth in taxation and. 02:30:10
And increase their property tax by that percent, 6% or 8% or 10%. 02:30:14
But in this case, over a three-year period, they would probably have raised their property taxes. 02:30:19
25% fifteen. 02:30:24
Details going to have to offer 40% tax increase. 02:30:27
Government that the. 02:30:31
Philosophy. 02:30:32
But 48 percent, 40%, yeah, because ours is 50% after 20 years. 02:30:36
Yeah. We've only had one and it was 50 that was the 50%. The other. The other piece to this is. 02:30:42
When we went through the whole process. 02:30:50
Tax increase with our residents. 02:30:53
The consultants basically said. 02:30:56
Look, we think the proper way to do that and the tech and who's the watchdogs, Taxpayers Association actually worked our tax 02:31:02
increase, believe it or not. 02:31:08
But they said really the way we'd like you to do this is not the way you're doing that. It's every three or four or five years 02:31:14
still out because property tax is a revenue based system, so. 02:31:19
It stays flat until you go through a truth in taxation. 02:31:25
So they would rather have you do something like this, which we haven't done. 02:31:29
Since we raised taxes because. 02:31:33
We had such, we had such growth in our sales tax that we just didn't feel justified in going out and asking. 02:31:36
For more property types of that use so that's part of it. So, but I think Gene is right. 02:31:43
We could bite the bullet this year and say hey. 02:31:48
Understand inflation's been high. It's tough, but we've got. 02:31:51
Issues we're trying to address. 02:31:56
And funding ongoing expenses using general fund dollars, even though we have a healthy fund balance rather. 02:31:58
Is not really the way you should operate. You should. 02:32:07
Under ongoing with ongoing revenues. 02:32:13
We also have a look at our capital improvement budget. I mean, we could reduce our capital. 02:32:16
Look at our capital improvements and say we're just not going to be able to do as much. 02:32:21
Which is actually what got us into this problem in the 1st place, because. 02:32:25
We ended up robbing that account to balance our budget for 20 years. So deferred maintenance essentially, right? Yeah. The other 02:32:29
issue too is political and how people feel about the next year is going to be an election year. 02:32:34
And then you have to go out for property tax and somebody uses that as ammunition, which I don't think is really proper, but. 02:32:41
Yeah, so anyway, So what does? 02:32:49
In terms of a sensitivity analysis, what? 02:32:53
What is a 5% increase block? 02:32:56
Generate. That's a great question. So I look I so 7 1/2% generates about 5:50. So a 700. I'm sorry, a 7.5% increase in copy taxes 02:33:00
across citywide only generates. 02:33:08
$508,000 property tax is not that big. What does that translate into? Like a different property value? 02:33:16
Like so if you have a. 02:33:26
You know $500,000 house for two point $500 house and I haven't looked at it like that. I certainly can. We did during the the last 02:33:28
cycle we looked at the impact half. 02:33:34
As much as you think. 02:33:41
I feel like. 02:33:44
The time to do it. 02:33:46
Single digits as a percentage, Yeah, I agree with that. More often than less frequent being up in the 15 and 20. 02:33:49
Frequently and if you guys, most people know about the UPD transition and that's going on and I feel like. 02:33:58
People people want to fund their police to me like. 02:34:06
That's an easy sell. And the people who are most upset about taxes are also tend to be people who are most willing to pay their 02:34:09
police officers, like when you look from a political perspective. So I feel like. 02:34:14
There's a lot of. 02:34:19
And I'd rather do this. We should be doing this every three or four years, not. 02:34:21
Kicking the can down the road then. 02:34:27
Pushing it onto a future council that go out for a 30 or 40% taxi property tax is is there. 02:34:29
And it's obviously the plates get into this type, but is there a way that we can? 02:34:37
Create some kind of unified message to the public about this so that we can. 02:34:42
And I don't know if you. 02:34:48
Preempting that just makes the problem bigger because if people find out like you know, set or is there a way to kind of. 02:34:50
Presents what this is that we're trying to play at care police officers or we're trying to do a correction because everybody. 02:34:57
That'll be the whole truth of taxation process will go through all of that and it will say. 02:35:04
You know, on a. 02:35:10
This. This is how much it's going to cost. 02:35:11
If your property taxes say. 02:35:15
I'm just going to do it back in there. So if your property taxes say $8000 a year, right? 02:35:18
I think your holiday course is probably. 02:35:26
18%. 02:35:28
16%. 02:35:33
That's generous. And that's because all the other taxing authorities are increasing a higher rate than we are. 02:35:35
So I love, I'd love to see the ranking of where we sit compared to other cities. So we're pretty low actually. So that's the share 02:35:42
and 10% of that which would be like the increase 50 to 10% there. 02:35:49
It would be $192.00 say here whatever $8000 is. So that would be a. 02:35:57
You know what? 02:36:04
Level house. That would be probably 800,000 or something. Well, that wouldn't be. 02:36:05
What was the most? 02:36:30
This will be the lowest inflation people have dealt with. I mean pretty grocery budget. 02:36:33
It'd be about other $750,000 house. My best guess would be about $110. 02:36:38
Because our property tax is only about, say, 16% of your property tax bill. 02:36:46
So if we raise our property tax 15%, it's not. 02:36:54
You know that the whole bill is just our. It's still people with inflation stuff. I think they need to be sensitive. Yeah, no, 02:36:57
it's true. It's true. And the fixed incomes and that's where I think. 02:37:03
Every three years or so. 02:37:10
I think it's a little bit negligent of us to not do it more. 02:37:12
You know more frequently because then you're. 02:37:16
People can adjust, yeah. It's just painful because. 02:37:18
You'll get you'll hear it. But I get this other reason I'd rather do it this year. 02:37:22
That I don't think we should wait till next year and then if you don't do it next year. 02:37:29
Then you're going to be asking for a 20% increase, 25% increase two years from now, which is really not fair to that council. 02:37:33
Yeah. 02:37:41
But I would say. 02:37:44
You know it may be. 02:37:48
15% is the number, but maybe you want to look at a little bit say look how much do we really want, do we think we're just by the 02:37:49
generating here and. 02:37:53
So 15% is the number if you want to do our justification based on inflation. 02:37:58
10%, which would really basically close that gap and just look at public safety and I heard you say. 02:38:05
Single digit maybe better or smaller is better than large. More frequent, smaller more frequent is better than larger. 02:38:12
So we're talking, I mean we're talking about what you said $110 a year. So we're at like. 02:38:20
Maybe $10 a month with this. Like, I feel like that's. 02:38:28
There are so, so few people actually do that calculation. 02:38:32
They look at the percent and they look at the total, their tax bill. 02:38:36
Is there a way we can? 02:38:42
We'll do it taxation, but it's a hard concept to explain to people when you say. 02:38:47
Well, your property taxes. 02:38:55
If we have gone up, well, yes they have. It's like, well, it wasn't us. It was great school district, yeah. 02:38:56
In in relationship to your neighbors, influences have more particular. 02:39:07
Value changes. Oh, they're really tough. It's complicated. 02:39:13
But it's conceptually it's. 02:39:19
Is a fact I mean. 02:39:21
If you look at our property tax in the city. 02:39:23
So. 02:39:31
I think if you're going to do it because you're not just doing it to cover, you're not just doing it to cover this year's delta. 02:39:33
If you're going to do it, you're also trying to lookout for a couple of years and say let's get enough to get us through another 02:39:40
three years. 02:39:43
Then maybe in three years we have to go out for another 10% increase from. 02:39:47
Because you're gonna get, you're gonna get. 02:39:51
You're going to get punished, whether it's 10% or 15, yeah. And if you're going to go through a lot of work to go through 02:39:55
taxation, you get it done. 02:39:59
You might as well. 02:40:05
Get justified 15%. I think we don't anticipate coming back to you for another, yeah, the March 349 and 15 is going to be. 02:40:07
And because inflation is going down, like it's not increasing as rapidly, I feel like it's a more salient. 02:40:16
Point people will understand that we are subject to those same pressures now more than they will in a year's time. Yeah, if we can 02:40:23
get it down to. 02:40:27
Your house is valued at $800,000. This means an increase of. 02:40:32
X dollars. 02:40:36
The hard thing about the inflation is they're being placed on their side. Yeah, it's absolutely true. That's why I like, yeah, so 02:40:39
public safety is the and I think our message, you can include both of these elements and we can, you know, I mean it's the state 02:40:46
legislature's fault when it comes to the public safety issue. 02:40:54
Definitely let them know. 02:41:02
Problems. 02:41:08
So we will start it, you will, when you adopt the budget. 02:41:14
Signal your attention for an increase. 02:41:20
The county will schedule that hearing in August. 02:41:24
And then you'll you'll have a final vote in August. 02:41:29
Yes, all this will. 02:41:34
Is indicate direction from the Council and. 02:41:36
And Gina, of our attention how we're going to build a budget. 02:41:40
And then we'll go through a public process. And that doesn't mean we're stuck with this number, I mean. 02:41:45
Once we get public input, we may change our mind. 02:41:50
So we have a couple of other small. 02:41:55
Issues we talked about Church, you. This is such a tiny little thing, but I just wanted to make you aware. So right now for our 02:42:04
4th of July breakfast. 02:42:09
We charge our residents $5 and I think we have. 02:42:15
Forever. 02:42:18
We're paying 1450 ahead for breakfast. 02:42:20
So I just wanted to raise that issue with you. So you want us to charge a 15% for property? 02:42:25
And. 02:42:35
That is not going to affect the equation that we just at all. 02:42:38
But I just wanted to make you aware and if you wanted to look at that, even raising a couple of dollars, we still could. 02:42:44
Since we've moved to credit cards, accepting credit cards, about 40% of people are paying with credit cards, but we still have a 02:42:53
lot of people that come and bring their five or 20. 02:42:58
And that would create some hassle as we as we take tickets. 02:43:05
I don't think it's that. 02:43:12
We need to. 02:43:21
It's pretty heavily subsidized. It doesn't need to be. 02:43:24
That's a great question. We've done different things like last year we just did a family and now created more pumps and. 02:43:32
One year. 02:43:42
Like 8 and under three or seven, six and under three we but I think. 02:43:44
Yeah, 10 dollars per dollar, $5 for kids. 02:43:52
Keeping utter. 02:44:04
It doesn't sound like there's a ton of support. That's what I would do. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. What would you do 10 02:44:06
bucks for? 02:44:10
That's still a bargain. Can you get your family up? It's still cheaper. 02:44:16
How about deadline, though? That's and that's. That's a big job. 02:44:22
I know for sure I'm fine either way. I mean, it doesn't sound like it's been bringing enough money to be so. I mean, whatever. You 02:44:29
can even say something. I can and. 02:44:33
You're a donation at the Arts Council. 02:44:38
Tell you also fund VR. 02:44:42
Instead of just being a. 02:44:45
Charge for breakfast and tell them that it costs 1450. 02:44:47
You know. 02:44:52
Maybe we could share If anybody complaints about that, just say. 02:44:54
That we have subsidized it with the empty and we change it next year. There's some we're going to save enough money that it's 02:45:06
worth the. 02:45:09
I mean, doesn't have to be a real number like that. Can we say? 02:45:13
Or something like that. Yeah. Period. 02:45:18
You know, I just would rather see us try to keep it close, yeah, And do more regular changes just so that it's not $8 for adults 02:45:21
and five for kids. 02:45:26
And it's under 2 and under 3 or whatever and one of your substitute. 02:45:32
Start rationing. 02:45:38
For you. 02:45:42
Complaints. Don't be shut up on the passport. Really. Yeah. 02:45:44
All right. So agreement on that point, cost of living at 4%, everybody comfortable with that. Yeah, that's a good start point. 02:45:48
And everybody comfortable. 02:45:58
From 30 to 35 ish. 02:46:03
Yeah, we've got some cost increases. 02:46:06
And Jeff Whitney contract. 02:46:11
It does seem like it is it getting. 02:46:14
More well attended because it seems like it is. 02:46:16
And I think we're going to have a. 02:46:20
Are nice about the study here just because the energy behind. 02:46:23
And the energy splitting into these programs and she was on fire. 02:46:27
Is there anything that the Arts Council, any events they do or are they charged for anything? 02:46:32
Official opportunities to set up. 02:46:40
Don't forget, don't neglect part of the sale price of the paintings for the Oh yeah, we when they sell the downstairs, we get cut. 02:46:43
For the arts sales, and of course we have beer sales, pretty good fundraising and we sell boots at the Blue Moon Festival, but. 02:46:53
But just attendees, those are not charged. There's revenue coming in. Sponsors as well are paying for sponsor tables. So there's 02:47:04
an active effort. Yeah, they do generate revenue, but not in the way you were just suggesting in terms of I wasn't meaning 02:47:10
activities that they do that. Yeah. So they get 10 grand from Holiday Bank and Trust to sponsor the event they've actually put out 02:47:17
to. 02:47:23
Wires threat of sponsorship levels for local businesses for mentions and AD space entering conference series. 02:47:30
And then, so yeah, the Arts Council does generate revenue. 02:47:37
None at the cover cost and then they get. 02:47:41
Very successful if there's app applications and. 02:47:44
But when it all. 02:47:48
It's certainly into the hopper. They're still short below that. 02:47:49
That's right. I mean before we moved to a full time position about half of the money for program for the total program was. 02:47:53
Was raised either through. 02:48:02
Through all those sources that I'll just need. 02:48:04
It's a little different now because we do have a full time employee that's benefited. 02:48:07
Percentage has changed. 02:48:14
We'll look at that as part of the budget process as well. 02:48:16
The biggest word of the words in the word salad in the surveys. 02:48:22
It's surely true. Thanks for yeah. 02:48:27
OK. Thank you for the direction. I appreciate it. 02:48:32
10:00 Yeah, that's what it's going to take a long time. 02:48:38
Normal by the way. 02:48:43
I think it's good. 02:48:47
Move to Journey Night. 02:48:50
Wait, Please. Please. 02:48:59
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