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All set. 00:00:01
OK. 00:00:04
I will call this hearing to order. 00:00:06
It is. 00:00:09
May S 2024 and we are meeting in the. 00:00:11
City Council Chambers at Holiday City Hall. 00:00:15
This is very experienced. I'm holiday Cities land use officer. My name's Richard Catman. 00:00:18
Just a little bit of preliminary about me. I don't work for holiday. I'm an independent person. They bring in my background is I 00:00:25
used to be the city attorney in West Valley City for a long time. So I have a land use background. 00:00:31
And a lawyer. 00:00:38
So the item we have, we only have one item on the agenda today and it is a variance for an address or property located 2512 E. 00:00:41
Haven Lane in Holiday. 00:00:49
The applicants and property owners of Brett and Tracy Hopkins and I believe they have representative as their applicant. 00:00:53
And before we get started, let me just kind of explain how variances work. 00:00:59
Probably know this already, may or may not. 00:01:04
But excuse me, variances are how you get A variance is set by state law. Every city has its own. 00:01:07
Ordinances that mirror state law, so this is consistent around the state. 00:01:15
And there are essentially 5 criteria that it's my job to look at. The first one, is there an unreasonable hardship that the 00:01:20
ordinances are causing? 00:01:24
That and the second part of this is that same hardship generally not applied to the other properties in the neighborhood. 00:01:30
And the third one is depriving you. I'm paraphrasing these, essentially. 00:01:39
But the third one is is depriving the property owners of the substantial right that other owners have to. 00:01:44
Build or do something similar to what they want to do. 00:01:50
The last one is to detect the city's general plan in a bad way. 00:01:54
Affect the. 00:01:58
And the last one is just kind of a goal actually more than a requirement. We try to do substantial justice and. 00:02:00
Zoning laws as much as we can. So we try to find, if we can, that middle ground where you can do what you want, but we still don't 00:02:07
disrupt the city's zoning too much. 00:02:11
So with that in mind, those are the things I'm looking for. 00:02:17
It's not just up to me to decide, yeah, this is a good thing. I actually have to write an analysis. At the end of the day, when I 00:02:20
make a decision, say why I think you meet or don't meet those criteria. 00:02:26
So with that in mind, who wants to come up and tell me what you're going to build? 00:02:32
Hang on just a second. 00:02:36
Subsidies like to do the first presentation. 00:02:39
Some cities don't, and it's been a while since I did one for holiday. Do you want to go first? I don't. I don't think we have a 00:02:42
preference. I did want to note that in the staff report there were some references to Mr. Jones and some science. So we're from an 00:02:50
old report. So those are just things that didn't get changed. They're irrelevant to this. 00:02:58
But that's not the recommendation here. What was the I think the recommendation here is that from the city's recommendation is 00:03:08
that the rear yard set back be approved. 00:03:13
Variance but the side yard not. 00:03:19
Yeah. Either denial or the approval with modification. Yeah. So I was there. I brought that up. So I wanted to make sure I do. 00:03:21
Yes, yeah. 00:03:30
I think the references were on page like 11. 00:03:32
I didn't get a chance to look at it yesterday. 00:03:40
But the. 00:03:45
This part number 8 that's from a previous one that's same with this one. 00:03:48
We pull things in and change things get left. 00:03:59
Understand that. 00:04:07
Yeah, that's so. That's the reference I think. 00:04:09
Like maybe I pulled in. 00:04:16
One that was not fully modified anyway. 00:04:18
That's that's what those references are. The staff report is still pretty complete with that. 00:04:22
Information that applies to this particular. 00:04:31
Yes. 00:04:34
Great. Yeah. So there's the recommendation at the end. 00:04:35
Well, there is another. Oh yeah, because that one is the. 00:04:42
That's in reference with that. 00:04:47
Sides, right, Yeah. Is there one farther up in the front of the dock? Yes. 00:04:48
Which is this one? 00:04:55
Yeah. There, yeah, there we go. That's the one that plays here. 00:04:59
With that, thank you. Come on up. And for the record, this is recorded typically, so tell us who you are. 00:05:05
That's good. I like to be recorded. It's good. 00:05:14
I think, yeah, I think so. 00:05:20
So nice to meet you, Richard. I don't know if we've talked before or not. Maybe we have in some other meeting and I'm Jeremy 00:05:22
Jackson, so one of the owners of Jackson Leroy and. 00:05:27
I do this for several cities. So yeah, we don't run into each other somewhere. 00:05:34
Maybe we work in a lot of cities we we think holiday is our favorite city and not I know you don't work for holiday directly but. 00:05:39
We have our offices here and we do a lot of projects here in holiday and we feel like our general. 00:05:47
Guidelines and the way we do business aligns really well with the City of Holiday and what they want to accomplish with their 00:05:54
general plan. And so we'd like to be a great partner with them and I feel like we've done a lot of great projects together. 00:06:00
Including a lot of variance and other things that we've changed including our office which is down on Highland Dr. which needed a 00:06:08
big. We had a hearing on that to to change some setbacks and things and John Terlink was a great help for that. That was probably, 00:06:14
I don't know, 12 years, that was a long time ago that we did that. But anyways and I'd also just say in addition to that, thanks 00:06:21
to Carrie for all of her help on this particular one. She's done a great job and. 00:06:28
I think we feel generally in agreement with everything that she's. 00:06:36
Put in her report and the things that we've talked about. And so thank you to you Carrie for all that, all your work on that. I've 00:06:42
got a few of my other team here, project managers, Dave and Josh, and then Ashley is in our office who's also helped put this 00:06:48
together. So not to take too much of your time. 00:06:54
That's appreciate them being here. Yeah, too often we have nobody here. It's nice to have an audience. I love an audience. 00:07:01
So this general property, those five points that you brought up of. 00:07:10
That are required to make a variance request. 00:07:17
Be approved. I feel like we have a strong case on all of those five points and I feel like Carrie put that together nicely in her 00:07:23
reports. I don't know that we need to rehash through that of the report other than this is a unique property. 00:07:29
That's what I'd most like to hear. I mean her. The report tells me a lot. Yeah, and I've read the report. 00:07:37
But I always like to hear from the owner of the Rep OK, what are we? Why are we doing? 00:07:44
And why do we have a problem? What's our hardship? So a unique situation here is this lot is. 00:07:50
Intersected by Big Cottonwood Creek, right, And it it got formed just recently by the purchase of the parcel behind Brett and 00:07:57
Tracy's property. 00:08:02
About a year ago, I think, which is the original parcel. 00:08:10
I don't see a parcel number on that on the drawing, but. 00:08:15
Oh, so they have a bridge that connects them to another part of their, correct? Correct. So the parcel that's on the other side of 00:08:20
Big Cottonwood Creek was purchased. 00:08:25
And it was purchased in conjunction with the neighbor here to the. 00:08:31
North, I would say, which is Brad Reynolds. 00:08:36
They purchased the property behind them, which was interestingly connection to that is one of my best friends growing up grew up 00:08:40
in this house here and so I spent a lot of time over here on this property. Yeah, I love yeah, this property is, yeah, I have a 00:08:46
lot of history over there. 00:08:52
But what Brad and Brett, the two owners here on Haven, decided is let's let's purchase that. They went through the process of 00:08:59
splitting the lot and combining it each with each of their properties across Big Cottonwood Creek. 00:09:05
And so now parcel 452031. 00:09:12
Is combined, you know crosses the Creek and they've both put in bridges over there that cross the Creek and pretty special kind of 00:09:19
a unique. 00:09:23
Place. 00:09:29
And the Creek. 00:09:31
Obviously was known about when they purchased the property. I feel like Brett and Tracy and Brad probably didn't understand the 00:09:34
setback requirements or the hardship that that place is on the buildable area within their new parcel. 00:09:41
Or within the new property and so I understand. 00:09:48
Report there are. 00:09:53
Setbacks from the Creek, correct. So and that has to, yeah. And that and that comes from I believe not just the city of holiday, 00:09:54
but I think it comes from what does it carry the. 00:10:00
Salt Lake County, yeah. So it's a, it's a 50 foot set back from the high watermark on each side of the Creek, which is extreme, 00:10:06
right. So taking into account this area here on each side of that that that equals because they have property on both sides, it's 00:10:13
100 feet of unbuildable area that they have in the middle basically of their property. 00:10:20
And so that's the main reason for the hardship is, is this feature of the Creek that runs through the property. 00:10:28
And another interesting fact here is by combining the lots, it actually changes. And I don't think this is in the report, but I 00:10:35
think the way the property used to be set up is what is now our rear property line used to be considered a side yard property on 00:10:41
the old parcel. 00:10:48
Before it was combined. And if you look on this map, you can see where the old pool was and the old pool house, which are a lot 00:10:55
closer to the side property than would be allowed currently with the division, right. Yeah. So that that brown building is the 00:11:01
pool, that's the pool cover. And then there's a pool house, the white, which is right up near the property line. And then there's 00:11:07
a larger pool house, which is, I don't know how close that that was. It's been removed. Those structures are gone. The pool isn't 00:11:13
there anymore. 00:11:19
And the main house has been removed, but anyways the neighbor to the other side. 00:11:26
I just want to make sure I understand this. 00:11:33
Photo So. 00:11:35
Their houses, You're looking at this. Yeah. So their current home is on Haven Lane, and their address is a Haven Lane address. 00:11:38
2512. 00:11:47
Correct. 00:11:52
Basically their old property ended at the Creek. The part that they purchased would be that. 00:11:53
And another unique part of this by creating this property is is the access from the Walker Lane side which used to be the front 00:12:00
yard entrance to the original piece of property comes in. You can kind of see where it comes in. 00:12:07
Umm, right there. Yeah, where the cursor is. So that's a unique feature too, right? There's an entrance back there off of Walker 00:12:16
Lane. A private the private lane off of Walker. 00:12:21
Pointing out the fact that this used to be a side yard set back. I guess I'm making that argument because it furthers our position 00:12:28
as even to the neighbors the set back is less than it would have been had the parcels not been combined right? They could have 00:12:34
pushed that building up closer to the property line, really affecting the neighbor and I don't know the neighbors at 453014 00:12:40
parcel. 00:12:46
Anyways, our building is much. 00:12:53
Proposed that we'd like to do is set back even further off the property line now than it would have been. 00:12:56
Before OK, so. 00:13:02
What's your proposed building is on the new piece? 00:13:06
Yeah, we'd like to, yeah, on the other side of the Creek and if you go back to that site plan, it shows kind of the building 00:13:09
layout that the Hopkins are proposing. 00:13:13
You can see where the driveway comes in. It will act as a secondary building. 00:13:18
Basically a garage over there, but. 00:13:24
It will be. 00:13:27
Umm, yeah. It'll be beautiful structure. It's going to be really nice. 00:13:30
Combine the. 00:13:35
Step back the city. Set back. 00:13:38
You have a little narrow strip in the middle you can build on. 00:13:41
Correct. Yeah, you can see that set back where the cursor is. That's the 50 foot set back mark right there where the cursor is. 00:13:43
And then the building side, the building you can see, you can see the it's at the proposed set back right now which is the the 20 00:13:51
feet. 00:13:56
The current set back being a rear yard is the 30 feet. 00:14:02
The way the parcel used to be, I believe it would have had a 10 foot set back. 00:14:06
Off of that side yard, right. Is that right, 10 or maybe? 00:14:12
That point isn't really that big of a I'm not trying to make that argument our main argument, but I'm just saying that's another 00:14:20
point. 00:14:23
And then the side yard set back is interesting because and that's where that blew the triangle there is and that really set back. 00:14:27
I mean the Hopkins would would prefer to push the building towards that set back or have a 10 foot proposed set back on that side. 00:14:33
This has all been discussed with the Reynolds and obviously they can't just decide between neighbors what they want to do, but the 00:14:40
Reynolds are totally agreeable to that. They actually like that they want to build something close to. So they kind of have a an 00:14:46
agreement there like hey. 00:14:52
If you do it, we'll do it. And they have a good relationship as neighbors and and. 00:14:59
It wouldn't put like hardship on the Reynolds US pushing the building closer. 00:15:04
Have their opportunity to show up today? Yeah, they would. Yeah. And they're not here, so just kidding. 00:15:09
No, they have a great relationship as neighbors. I think really what Brad's plan is and I can't speak officially obviously for 00:15:15
that, but I think mostly it will be mostly just landscaping back there. 00:15:20
And so whether we push the building a few feet to that side, set back or not, doesn't affect him much. 00:15:26
Obviously his home main home is nowhere even close to that and there aren't really any other homes in the area there. 00:15:33
Given the width of the property top to bottom on this. 00:15:41
How? What's the problem with moving the carriage house? 00:15:48
A few feet. 00:15:52
Towards the bottom of the diagram so it doesn't have a set back issue. 00:15:53
Yeah, and I think that's all. 00:15:57
Is it topography? Is it? 00:16:01
I guess the answer to that is it probably could be done. It just creates a really tight space there between the Creek and where 00:16:05
you know what they would want to do with the landscaping, pushing that building close up to the bridge and just making it not seem 00:16:10
as. 00:16:14
Well, I wouldn't move any closer to the bridge, right? It just moves parallel to the bridge. 00:16:20
What? 00:16:26
Yeah, good point. Good point. 00:16:29
Yeah, moving it that way. 00:16:33
From the side set back. 00:16:36
On the picture down, yeah, you're right, that is not and that's not a really the main setback that we would. 00:16:39
Yeah. So really what we, our preference is like Carrie put in her report the approval of the 20 foot set back variance. 00:16:48
That's the big one that we want. If we can't get this side set back, we would want it over as far as you would allow us to after 00:16:59
reading the report. But if it can't go that way, it's not like a deal killer. It's not going to, it's not a huge deal to the 00:17:05
Hopkins other than we may encounter a few trees that we need to take down that are large beautiful trees that the neighbors may be 00:17:12
more upset about that than just moving the building over a little bit. So we're always trying to be consider that and thanks for 00:17:19
bringing that up, Josh. 00:17:25
Mr. Cat and I can comment on that as well with tree removal as Holiday has a tree canopy sustainability ordinance. 00:17:33
It is triggered when there's new development on a property, typically. 00:17:45
For we do like allow decreased setbacks in a planned unit development type situation, So those kinds of allowances are 00:17:53
occasionally made to preserve trees, yes. 00:18:02
Yes. 00:18:12
Specifically tied to planned unit developments, but the. 00:18:14
If we're looking at the spirit of the of the zoning ordinance, that is a factor is a tree preservation. 00:18:19
And you can't. You can kind of see the tree canopy from this aerial shot, but the idea would be to maintain those trees almost 00:18:29
where that arrow is. 00:18:33
There's a few really tall Evergreen trees in that zone. That would probably be. 00:18:39
Encroached upon. The more we have to move that way, the more risk we have losing those trees for sure. 00:18:44
I don't know there's anything I'd add to that or if there are any other questions or. 00:18:52
I mean, I think it's between what you've told me and what's in the staff report, if you kind of. 00:18:57
Good idea what your problem is. 00:19:03
I can't. I mean I typically I have some questions, but. 00:19:08
Not sure I do today. Kerry did such a good job laying it all out there. 00:19:11
And whether we move it or decide to split the difference or go to the existing not granted on the side, I mean obviously the 00:19:17
Hopkins. 00:19:21
Would prefer it move over like I said. 00:19:25
Looking at this, what is the existing set back requirement and how much are you asking it? That's on the side. 00:19:29
And how much of A variance are you asking for? 00:19:35
Currently at 17 feet without a variance we're asking for 10 which is so 7 feet difference. You know carries report talks about 00:19:38
possibly splitting that and really if you look at that map, not much. We're not planning on building a lot into that set back. 00:19:46
It's just that little triangle of the building that encroaches into the set back and so. 00:19:53
It's that little corner and. 00:20:01
I think the overall massing of the building will feel not part of the set back, it's just that little corner and so that's. 00:20:05
It gives a. 00:20:13
These reasons probably aren't. 00:20:15
Necessarily hardship. It just gives a better feel to the lot and to the positioning of the building if it's over, as well as 00:20:17
preserving those trees. That's probably the best argument. 00:20:22
I understand that correctly what you're saying. I might often do this in various instances. This is a various structural link. 00:20:31
It's not a variance for your whole site, right? Yes. And that kind of explains the how we have average setbacks. So the 17 feet is 00:20:38
an average set back, which the proposed building as I looked at it largely meets at 17 feet because we have A and I didn't do the 00:20:46
full like 10 points, but this point is further away. This point is further away. So then that kind of creates an average of what 00:20:55
would be likely larger than 17 feet. So you'd meet the average requirement. 00:21:03
It's just that no point closer than, so the no point closer than is 14, about 14 1/2 feet. So really it's an encroachment of you 00:21:12
know a single point or area that is encroaching into that 14.45 feet that would be the required. 00:21:22
So. 00:21:32
And that's this area. So I drew a line kind of in here of what that 14 feet is. 00:21:34
And what is that structure? I mean it looks like stairs or something. 00:21:41
Is that part of the house? Yeah, there's a yeah, there's a basement inside that. 00:21:46
And so there's stairs going. Yeah, yeah, it's part of. 00:21:52
It's part of the building, yeah. 00:21:58
And the Hopkins would, that's all they're planning on. They're not planning on building another structure. We're not going to come 00:22:00
back in here and ask for another building within that set back. So they would be totally fine and we would be if it's restricted 00:22:04
just to that building. 00:22:09
In the future, on the map you do see that gravel terrace, that's a that's a carport that actually is still there, but that's that. 00:22:15
The plan is to remove that, so there won't be that. 00:22:20
If the city was proposing before 14.25, I think. 00:22:27
Kind of compromises, yeah. 00:22:32
If that was if I settled on that as being a reasonable thing. 00:22:35
Then does that move the house? If it only moves the house like 3 feet, is that going to hurt those trees? 00:22:41
I don't think so, right? 00:22:48
We don't have it necessarily surveyed out yet, so we're not for sure. 00:22:50
The full drip line of those, right? 00:23:03
Roots. 00:23:07
There's a couple of huge trees like here. 00:23:16
Do you mind? 00:23:20
I can't see this point right? 00:23:23
Really large trees in this area. 00:23:27
And right at the end of the building, we don't have them surveyed out. I mean, there are a few other others here, yeah. 00:23:29
OK. 00:23:40
There's a huge one there too. 00:23:42
Right here, yeah. 00:23:49
It's pushing that the more we can keep it that way, the better for this building. 00:23:53
Yeah, and those trees would have to adjust the driveway to. 00:23:58
Yeah, like this kind of ****. Yeah, a little bit of everything around. 00:24:08
OK. 00:24:12
And yeah, it's a landscape. 00:24:15
And it would be nice, since you've made quite a few comments. Do you mind telling us your name? 00:24:24
OK. Thank you. 00:24:32
Yeah. Let's get Josh on there. I appreciate the comments. 00:24:34
He likes to talk to. 00:24:38
OK, umm. 00:24:44
I think I have enough information to make a decision. 00:24:47
Yeah, thanks for considering. Like I said, we love City of Holiday. We're happy with whatever you decide obviously, but hope that 00:24:51
it's. 00:24:55
So I'm actually headed out of town in the morning, but. 00:25:01
I should have this decision within a week. 00:25:05
And I said I have to put it in writing. 00:25:07
I think you guys record them if I recall. 00:25:11
So that they feature, property owners can see them. 00:25:15
So I will get it to carry and she will get it to you. 00:25:18
Great. Thank you, Carrie. Thanks. Hope you're going somewhere warm. 00:25:23
A little bit warmer. 00:25:28
Thank you. 00:25:31
And that will adjourn. 00:25:32
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All set. 00:00:01
OK. 00:00:04
I will call this hearing to order. 00:00:06
It is. 00:00:09
May S 2024 and we are meeting in the. 00:00:11
City Council Chambers at Holiday City Hall. 00:00:15
This is very experienced. I'm holiday Cities land use officer. My name's Richard Catman. 00:00:18
Just a little bit of preliminary about me. I don't work for holiday. I'm an independent person. They bring in my background is I 00:00:25
used to be the city attorney in West Valley City for a long time. So I have a land use background. 00:00:31
And a lawyer. 00:00:38
So the item we have, we only have one item on the agenda today and it is a variance for an address or property located 2512 E. 00:00:41
Haven Lane in Holiday. 00:00:49
The applicants and property owners of Brett and Tracy Hopkins and I believe they have representative as their applicant. 00:00:53
And before we get started, let me just kind of explain how variances work. 00:00:59
Probably know this already, may or may not. 00:01:04
But excuse me, variances are how you get A variance is set by state law. Every city has its own. 00:01:07
Ordinances that mirror state law, so this is consistent around the state. 00:01:15
And there are essentially 5 criteria that it's my job to look at. The first one, is there an unreasonable hardship that the 00:01:20
ordinances are causing? 00:01:24
That and the second part of this is that same hardship generally not applied to the other properties in the neighborhood. 00:01:30
And the third one is depriving you. I'm paraphrasing these, essentially. 00:01:39
But the third one is is depriving the property owners of the substantial right that other owners have to. 00:01:44
Build or do something similar to what they want to do. 00:01:50
The last one is to detect the city's general plan in a bad way. 00:01:54
Affect the. 00:01:58
And the last one is just kind of a goal actually more than a requirement. We try to do substantial justice and. 00:02:00
Zoning laws as much as we can. So we try to find, if we can, that middle ground where you can do what you want, but we still don't 00:02:07
disrupt the city's zoning too much. 00:02:11
So with that in mind, those are the things I'm looking for. 00:02:17
It's not just up to me to decide, yeah, this is a good thing. I actually have to write an analysis. At the end of the day, when I 00:02:20
make a decision, say why I think you meet or don't meet those criteria. 00:02:26
So with that in mind, who wants to come up and tell me what you're going to build? 00:02:32
Hang on just a second. 00:02:36
Subsidies like to do the first presentation. 00:02:39
Some cities don't, and it's been a while since I did one for holiday. Do you want to go first? I don't. I don't think we have a 00:02:42
preference. I did want to note that in the staff report there were some references to Mr. Jones and some science. So we're from an 00:02:50
old report. So those are just things that didn't get changed. They're irrelevant to this. 00:02:58
But that's not the recommendation here. What was the I think the recommendation here is that from the city's recommendation is 00:03:08
that the rear yard set back be approved. 00:03:13
Variance but the side yard not. 00:03:19
Yeah. Either denial or the approval with modification. Yeah. So I was there. I brought that up. So I wanted to make sure I do. 00:03:21
Yes, yeah. 00:03:30
I think the references were on page like 11. 00:03:32
I didn't get a chance to look at it yesterday. 00:03:40
But the. 00:03:45
This part number 8 that's from a previous one that's same with this one. 00:03:48
We pull things in and change things get left. 00:03:59
Understand that. 00:04:07
Yeah, that's so. That's the reference I think. 00:04:09
Like maybe I pulled in. 00:04:16
One that was not fully modified anyway. 00:04:18
That's that's what those references are. The staff report is still pretty complete with that. 00:04:22
Information that applies to this particular. 00:04:31
Yes. 00:04:34
Great. Yeah. So there's the recommendation at the end. 00:04:35
Well, there is another. Oh yeah, because that one is the. 00:04:42
That's in reference with that. 00:04:47
Sides, right, Yeah. Is there one farther up in the front of the dock? Yes. 00:04:48
Which is this one? 00:04:55
Yeah. There, yeah, there we go. That's the one that plays here. 00:04:59
With that, thank you. Come on up. And for the record, this is recorded typically, so tell us who you are. 00:05:05
That's good. I like to be recorded. It's good. 00:05:14
I think, yeah, I think so. 00:05:20
So nice to meet you, Richard. I don't know if we've talked before or not. Maybe we have in some other meeting and I'm Jeremy 00:05:22
Jackson, so one of the owners of Jackson Leroy and. 00:05:27
I do this for several cities. So yeah, we don't run into each other somewhere. 00:05:34
Maybe we work in a lot of cities we we think holiday is our favorite city and not I know you don't work for holiday directly but. 00:05:39
We have our offices here and we do a lot of projects here in holiday and we feel like our general. 00:05:47
Guidelines and the way we do business aligns really well with the City of Holiday and what they want to accomplish with their 00:05:54
general plan. And so we'd like to be a great partner with them and I feel like we've done a lot of great projects together. 00:06:00
Including a lot of variance and other things that we've changed including our office which is down on Highland Dr. which needed a 00:06:08
big. We had a hearing on that to to change some setbacks and things and John Terlink was a great help for that. That was probably, 00:06:14
I don't know, 12 years, that was a long time ago that we did that. But anyways and I'd also just say in addition to that, thanks 00:06:21
to Carrie for all of her help on this particular one. She's done a great job and. 00:06:28
I think we feel generally in agreement with everything that she's. 00:06:36
Put in her report and the things that we've talked about. And so thank you to you Carrie for all that, all your work on that. I've 00:06:42
got a few of my other team here, project managers, Dave and Josh, and then Ashley is in our office who's also helped put this 00:06:48
together. So not to take too much of your time. 00:06:54
That's appreciate them being here. Yeah, too often we have nobody here. It's nice to have an audience. I love an audience. 00:07:01
So this general property, those five points that you brought up of. 00:07:10
That are required to make a variance request. 00:07:17
Be approved. I feel like we have a strong case on all of those five points and I feel like Carrie put that together nicely in her 00:07:23
reports. I don't know that we need to rehash through that of the report other than this is a unique property. 00:07:29
That's what I'd most like to hear. I mean her. The report tells me a lot. Yeah, and I've read the report. 00:07:37
But I always like to hear from the owner of the Rep OK, what are we? Why are we doing? 00:07:44
And why do we have a problem? What's our hardship? So a unique situation here is this lot is. 00:07:50
Intersected by Big Cottonwood Creek, right, And it it got formed just recently by the purchase of the parcel behind Brett and 00:07:57
Tracy's property. 00:08:02
About a year ago, I think, which is the original parcel. 00:08:10
I don't see a parcel number on that on the drawing, but. 00:08:15
Oh, so they have a bridge that connects them to another part of their, correct? Correct. So the parcel that's on the other side of 00:08:20
Big Cottonwood Creek was purchased. 00:08:25
And it was purchased in conjunction with the neighbor here to the. 00:08:31
North, I would say, which is Brad Reynolds. 00:08:36
They purchased the property behind them, which was interestingly connection to that is one of my best friends growing up grew up 00:08:40
in this house here and so I spent a lot of time over here on this property. Yeah, I love yeah, this property is, yeah, I have a 00:08:46
lot of history over there. 00:08:52
But what Brad and Brett, the two owners here on Haven, decided is let's let's purchase that. They went through the process of 00:08:59
splitting the lot and combining it each with each of their properties across Big Cottonwood Creek. 00:09:05
And so now parcel 452031. 00:09:12
Is combined, you know crosses the Creek and they've both put in bridges over there that cross the Creek and pretty special kind of 00:09:19
a unique. 00:09:23
Place. 00:09:29
And the Creek. 00:09:31
Obviously was known about when they purchased the property. I feel like Brett and Tracy and Brad probably didn't understand the 00:09:34
setback requirements or the hardship that that place is on the buildable area within their new parcel. 00:09:41
Or within the new property and so I understand. 00:09:48
Report there are. 00:09:53
Setbacks from the Creek, correct. So and that has to, yeah. And that and that comes from I believe not just the city of holiday, 00:09:54
but I think it comes from what does it carry the. 00:10:00
Salt Lake County, yeah. So it's a, it's a 50 foot set back from the high watermark on each side of the Creek, which is extreme, 00:10:06
right. So taking into account this area here on each side of that that that equals because they have property on both sides, it's 00:10:13
100 feet of unbuildable area that they have in the middle basically of their property. 00:10:20
And so that's the main reason for the hardship is, is this feature of the Creek that runs through the property. 00:10:28
And another interesting fact here is by combining the lots, it actually changes. And I don't think this is in the report, but I 00:10:35
think the way the property used to be set up is what is now our rear property line used to be considered a side yard property on 00:10:41
the old parcel. 00:10:48
Before it was combined. And if you look on this map, you can see where the old pool was and the old pool house, which are a lot 00:10:55
closer to the side property than would be allowed currently with the division, right. Yeah. So that that brown building is the 00:11:01
pool, that's the pool cover. And then there's a pool house, the white, which is right up near the property line. And then there's 00:11:07
a larger pool house, which is, I don't know how close that that was. It's been removed. Those structures are gone. The pool isn't 00:11:13
there anymore. 00:11:19
And the main house has been removed, but anyways the neighbor to the other side. 00:11:26
I just want to make sure I understand this. 00:11:33
Photo So. 00:11:35
Their houses, You're looking at this. Yeah. So their current home is on Haven Lane, and their address is a Haven Lane address. 00:11:38
2512. 00:11:47
Correct. 00:11:52
Basically their old property ended at the Creek. The part that they purchased would be that. 00:11:53
And another unique part of this by creating this property is is the access from the Walker Lane side which used to be the front 00:12:00
yard entrance to the original piece of property comes in. You can kind of see where it comes in. 00:12:07
Umm, right there. Yeah, where the cursor is. So that's a unique feature too, right? There's an entrance back there off of Walker 00:12:16
Lane. A private the private lane off of Walker. 00:12:21
Pointing out the fact that this used to be a side yard set back. I guess I'm making that argument because it furthers our position 00:12:28
as even to the neighbors the set back is less than it would have been had the parcels not been combined right? They could have 00:12:34
pushed that building up closer to the property line, really affecting the neighbor and I don't know the neighbors at 453014 00:12:40
parcel. 00:12:46
Anyways, our building is much. 00:12:53
Proposed that we'd like to do is set back even further off the property line now than it would have been. 00:12:56
Before OK, so. 00:13:02
What's your proposed building is on the new piece? 00:13:06
Yeah, we'd like to, yeah, on the other side of the Creek and if you go back to that site plan, it shows kind of the building 00:13:09
layout that the Hopkins are proposing. 00:13:13
You can see where the driveway comes in. It will act as a secondary building. 00:13:18
Basically a garage over there, but. 00:13:24
It will be. 00:13:27
Umm, yeah. It'll be beautiful structure. It's going to be really nice. 00:13:30
Combine the. 00:13:35
Step back the city. Set back. 00:13:38
You have a little narrow strip in the middle you can build on. 00:13:41
Correct. Yeah, you can see that set back where the cursor is. That's the 50 foot set back mark right there where the cursor is. 00:13:43
And then the building side, the building you can see, you can see the it's at the proposed set back right now which is the the 20 00:13:51
feet. 00:13:56
The current set back being a rear yard is the 30 feet. 00:14:02
The way the parcel used to be, I believe it would have had a 10 foot set back. 00:14:06
Off of that side yard, right. Is that right, 10 or maybe? 00:14:12
That point isn't really that big of a I'm not trying to make that argument our main argument, but I'm just saying that's another 00:14:20
point. 00:14:23
And then the side yard set back is interesting because and that's where that blew the triangle there is and that really set back. 00:14:27
I mean the Hopkins would would prefer to push the building towards that set back or have a 10 foot proposed set back on that side. 00:14:33
This has all been discussed with the Reynolds and obviously they can't just decide between neighbors what they want to do, but the 00:14:40
Reynolds are totally agreeable to that. They actually like that they want to build something close to. So they kind of have a an 00:14:46
agreement there like hey. 00:14:52
If you do it, we'll do it. And they have a good relationship as neighbors and and. 00:14:59
It wouldn't put like hardship on the Reynolds US pushing the building closer. 00:15:04
Have their opportunity to show up today? Yeah, they would. Yeah. And they're not here, so just kidding. 00:15:09
No, they have a great relationship as neighbors. I think really what Brad's plan is and I can't speak officially obviously for 00:15:15
that, but I think mostly it will be mostly just landscaping back there. 00:15:20
And so whether we push the building a few feet to that side, set back or not, doesn't affect him much. 00:15:26
Obviously his home main home is nowhere even close to that and there aren't really any other homes in the area there. 00:15:33
Given the width of the property top to bottom on this. 00:15:41
How? What's the problem with moving the carriage house? 00:15:48
A few feet. 00:15:52
Towards the bottom of the diagram so it doesn't have a set back issue. 00:15:53
Yeah, and I think that's all. 00:15:57
Is it topography? Is it? 00:16:01
I guess the answer to that is it probably could be done. It just creates a really tight space there between the Creek and where 00:16:05
you know what they would want to do with the landscaping, pushing that building close up to the bridge and just making it not seem 00:16:10
as. 00:16:14
Well, I wouldn't move any closer to the bridge, right? It just moves parallel to the bridge. 00:16:20
What? 00:16:26
Yeah, good point. Good point. 00:16:29
Yeah, moving it that way. 00:16:33
From the side set back. 00:16:36
On the picture down, yeah, you're right, that is not and that's not a really the main setback that we would. 00:16:39
Yeah. So really what we, our preference is like Carrie put in her report the approval of the 20 foot set back variance. 00:16:48
That's the big one that we want. If we can't get this side set back, we would want it over as far as you would allow us to after 00:16:59
reading the report. But if it can't go that way, it's not like a deal killer. It's not going to, it's not a huge deal to the 00:17:05
Hopkins other than we may encounter a few trees that we need to take down that are large beautiful trees that the neighbors may be 00:17:12
more upset about that than just moving the building over a little bit. So we're always trying to be consider that and thanks for 00:17:19
bringing that up, Josh. 00:17:25
Mr. Cat and I can comment on that as well with tree removal as Holiday has a tree canopy sustainability ordinance. 00:17:33
It is triggered when there's new development on a property, typically. 00:17:45
For we do like allow decreased setbacks in a planned unit development type situation, So those kinds of allowances are 00:17:53
occasionally made to preserve trees, yes. 00:18:02
Yes. 00:18:12
Specifically tied to planned unit developments, but the. 00:18:14
If we're looking at the spirit of the of the zoning ordinance, that is a factor is a tree preservation. 00:18:19
And you can't. You can kind of see the tree canopy from this aerial shot, but the idea would be to maintain those trees almost 00:18:29
where that arrow is. 00:18:33
There's a few really tall Evergreen trees in that zone. That would probably be. 00:18:39
Encroached upon. The more we have to move that way, the more risk we have losing those trees for sure. 00:18:44
I don't know there's anything I'd add to that or if there are any other questions or. 00:18:52
I mean, I think it's between what you've told me and what's in the staff report, if you kind of. 00:18:57
Good idea what your problem is. 00:19:03
I can't. I mean I typically I have some questions, but. 00:19:08
Not sure I do today. Kerry did such a good job laying it all out there. 00:19:11
And whether we move it or decide to split the difference or go to the existing not granted on the side, I mean obviously the 00:19:17
Hopkins. 00:19:21
Would prefer it move over like I said. 00:19:25
Looking at this, what is the existing set back requirement and how much are you asking it? That's on the side. 00:19:29
And how much of A variance are you asking for? 00:19:35
Currently at 17 feet without a variance we're asking for 10 which is so 7 feet difference. You know carries report talks about 00:19:38
possibly splitting that and really if you look at that map, not much. We're not planning on building a lot into that set back. 00:19:46
It's just that little triangle of the building that encroaches into the set back and so. 00:19:53
It's that little corner and. 00:20:01
I think the overall massing of the building will feel not part of the set back, it's just that little corner and so that's. 00:20:05
It gives a. 00:20:13
These reasons probably aren't. 00:20:15
Necessarily hardship. It just gives a better feel to the lot and to the positioning of the building if it's over, as well as 00:20:17
preserving those trees. That's probably the best argument. 00:20:22
I understand that correctly what you're saying. I might often do this in various instances. This is a various structural link. 00:20:31
It's not a variance for your whole site, right? Yes. And that kind of explains the how we have average setbacks. So the 17 feet is 00:20:38
an average set back, which the proposed building as I looked at it largely meets at 17 feet because we have A and I didn't do the 00:20:46
full like 10 points, but this point is further away. This point is further away. So then that kind of creates an average of what 00:20:55
would be likely larger than 17 feet. So you'd meet the average requirement. 00:21:03
It's just that no point closer than, so the no point closer than is 14, about 14 1/2 feet. So really it's an encroachment of you 00:21:12
know a single point or area that is encroaching into that 14.45 feet that would be the required. 00:21:22
So. 00:21:32
And that's this area. So I drew a line kind of in here of what that 14 feet is. 00:21:34
And what is that structure? I mean it looks like stairs or something. 00:21:41
Is that part of the house? Yeah, there's a yeah, there's a basement inside that. 00:21:46
And so there's stairs going. Yeah, yeah, it's part of. 00:21:52
It's part of the building, yeah. 00:21:58
And the Hopkins would, that's all they're planning on. They're not planning on building another structure. We're not going to come 00:22:00
back in here and ask for another building within that set back. So they would be totally fine and we would be if it's restricted 00:22:04
just to that building. 00:22:09
In the future, on the map you do see that gravel terrace, that's a that's a carport that actually is still there, but that's that. 00:22:15
The plan is to remove that, so there won't be that. 00:22:20
If the city was proposing before 14.25, I think. 00:22:27
Kind of compromises, yeah. 00:22:32
If that was if I settled on that as being a reasonable thing. 00:22:35
Then does that move the house? If it only moves the house like 3 feet, is that going to hurt those trees? 00:22:41
I don't think so, right? 00:22:48
We don't have it necessarily surveyed out yet, so we're not for sure. 00:22:50
The full drip line of those, right? 00:23:03
Roots. 00:23:07
There's a couple of huge trees like here. 00:23:16
Do you mind? 00:23:20
I can't see this point right? 00:23:23
Really large trees in this area. 00:23:27
And right at the end of the building, we don't have them surveyed out. I mean, there are a few other others here, yeah. 00:23:29
OK. 00:23:40
There's a huge one there too. 00:23:42
Right here, yeah. 00:23:49
It's pushing that the more we can keep it that way, the better for this building. 00:23:53
Yeah, and those trees would have to adjust the driveway to. 00:23:58
Yeah, like this kind of ****. Yeah, a little bit of everything around. 00:24:08
OK. 00:24:12
And yeah, it's a landscape. 00:24:15
And it would be nice, since you've made quite a few comments. Do you mind telling us your name? 00:24:24
OK. Thank you. 00:24:32
Yeah. Let's get Josh on there. I appreciate the comments. 00:24:34
He likes to talk to. 00:24:38
OK, umm. 00:24:44
I think I have enough information to make a decision. 00:24:47
Yeah, thanks for considering. Like I said, we love City of Holiday. We're happy with whatever you decide obviously, but hope that 00:24:51
it's. 00:24:55
So I'm actually headed out of town in the morning, but. 00:25:01
I should have this decision within a week. 00:25:05
And I said I have to put it in writing. 00:25:07
I think you guys record them if I recall. 00:25:11
So that they feature, property owners can see them. 00:25:15
So I will get it to carry and she will get it to you. 00:25:18
Great. Thank you, Carrie. Thanks. Hope you're going somewhere warm. 00:25:23
A little bit warmer. 00:25:28
Thank you. 00:25:31
And that will adjourn. 00:25:32
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