Live stream not working in Chrome or Edge? Click Here
No Bookmarks Exist.
All right. 00:00:00
OK, we have a pretty long. 00:00:02
Work session agenda here. 00:00:06
And we try to accommodate everybody to be respectful of their time, but in this particular case, it's going to be a little bit 00:00:09
difficult. 00:00:12
I think. 00:00:51
Relatively quickly and I think that's the best I can do. 00:00:53
I'm just going to leave it there. 00:00:56
But we do, we do try to your respectful people's time, but I think in this particular case, that's how we can handle itself. 00:00:59
We'll start with the tree committee. 00:01:06
Presentation we've got Travis here. We've already said enough about Travis to go to Ferris anymore. If you want to bring any 00:01:10
anybody up that you want to bring up, feel free. If we've got a chair we can slide in there. It's it's kind of a one man show. But 00:01:15
Bob will be the taking the shared positions, doing great work he's doing with our committee. So I just wanted to do some of the 00:01:19
council staff. 00:01:24
Stevens will be taking a lead goal so. 00:01:30
Appreciate it. Hey, thanks for the kind words experience. I appreciate. I love this community. I'm you know, put to college and 00:01:34
then left and came back and raised a family and grandkids and leaving. So I'm sure I'll circle background at some point. 00:01:41
Appreciate it. So, yeah, just thanks for having us, you know, this good opportunity to kind of talk about what we're doing in the 00:01:50
tree committee. 00:01:53
We've had great projects. 00:01:57
Looking at we've recently adopted a new bylaws. I'm just reading our mission statement. 00:02:00
The volunteer members compromising the City of holiday Tree Committee are committed to inspiring the residents of holiday plant 00:02:05
nurture, reserve and champion trees within holiday served forest. We've we've done a lot of work. We've had new members that come 00:02:11
in and we've brushed up on our vision and purpose and have kind of incorporated those bylaws, made a little more official, had 00:02:17
some framework. So that kind of help a succession management as things move on to and. 00:02:23
Sky where we're at. 00:02:30
So Arbor Day, part of being a Tree City USA, is recognizing and celebrating Arbor Day. We try to reach out in the community and 00:02:34
find elementary schools. We do plantings. We've had real great success recently with elementaries. We planted at the fire station 00:02:42
years ago. Just this year we were up at Morningside and Wendy Frank, one of our strong committee members, helped coordinate 00:02:49
everything works with the PTA, the district, the principal. We had some great arborist volunteer at Jeremiah there. 00:02:56
Amazing event. I do something. Unfortunately, springtime in Utah, it's either going to be 80° or dumping rain and snow. It was 00:03:05
pretty rainy, but it was a great success. This tree out front is replacing one of the trees. I guess it was planted at the school 00:03:12
originally that died and so it was need to be able to do that. I grilled sentimental Lyric plant trees in 2012 and 2014. So it's 00:03:19
kind of neat to see, you know, some of the successes we've had, not just as a group, but you know, personally up there. 00:03:26
We planted this conifer, we did 2 trees out by the playground for shade and then put an oak tree kind of in the back corner N 00:03:32
corner. There's a church house there and kids were soccer and lacrosse line up so it'll be fun to see that moving forward. 00:03:39
You know, hoping to get really just the next generation of tree committee members in the workshare coming along. 00:04:18
Love this old picture that was up at Mount Olympus. Park back and see I'm just part of our committee and I. 00:05:00
Yeah, we just great advance I. 00:05:06
I think the, as these trees grow, I've talked about it before, is we need to be stewards of what we value. You know, our logo has 00:05:09
a Cottonwood leaf in it. We value trees. We obviously all love the trees, but if we're not stewards and maintaining them, we're 00:05:14
really not living up to what these trees can do. 00:05:20
We do have a voucher program and tree giveaway. We've had great success with that over the years. So our premier event we're going 00:05:27
to be, you'll see that in the budget in this next slide requesting some funds for next year. 00:05:33
The giveaway was great. Last year we partnered with the Olympus Food Pantry, which is a huge need in this community. We're pretty 00:05:40
affluent, well area, but we still have people struggling. And so the high school was great. We did a food drive, raised some great 00:05:46
funds. We were able to get that back. 00:05:51
Progressive and then we also have. 00:06:43
West side underneath the on Winchester St. right underneath the freeway. Would love to see an art like an Arboretum or something 00:06:46
or a nursery here in holiday so keep waiting to see somebody through that. Business up Knowles was great but we need more volume 00:06:51
of trees. 00:06:56
So budget wise, you know, just looking at this. 00:07:05
Read through it. We're asking for 35,500, touching on some of these items for our Arbor Day event. That 22,250 will cover multiple 00:07:09
trees, supplies, logistics for that event. We also have some literature that we give out. We try to do stuff for the students and 00:07:16
then give a gift to those that help support that. 00:07:22
The voucher program, I mentioned that we're looking at doing 50 vouchers. We've kind of slowed down that we've put our efforts 00:07:30
into other things, but we're working right now and digitizing that application that we can put on the website so that folks can go 00:07:36
on, fill out the information like a Google doc that will then generate the voucher, streamline this for all of us. So it's not a 00:07:41
nightmare tracking and trying to get on a spreadsheet, but we will be promoting that more in the future and 50 is pretty 00:07:47
reasonable amount. 00:07:53
We also have literature talked about that educational materials, the brochures we try to order refresh our stock of those each 00:08:00
year and we go through a lot of those, especially at our events. 00:08:04
Tree committee apparel, we have a lot of new members. We have two new voting members on our committee and we like the branding to 00:08:10
get out there. Just exposure more in the public doing events, especially at Arbor Day or service projects. And so want to look at 00:08:15
getting some T-shirts or hats. We have some of the old members have some leases. I think Dennis has got one of those stylish 00:08:21
shirts on right now. 00:08:27
Want to continue to do that. The spring giveaway, we put a $25,000 budget on there. We're asking the council for 20,000 to help 00:08:34
support that. We do raise funds in the public. We've had pretty good success talking to businesses and. 00:08:42
Some philanthropic people in the community, we think we can raise 5000 independently of that hope to get more, but we put. 00:08:49
Automated emails, she has waiting lists. It's pretty slick setup. We've talked about, you know, in the future, hopefully that's 00:09:35
something that can be absorbed into the city, done with the website. But we just wanted to include some budget for that because 00:09:40
that is an item that is something I don't have the bandwidth or capacity to do. And it's nice to have someone with some tech savvy 00:09:45
skills. 00:09:50
Really that's that's the budget of it. I mean any questions on these these dollar figures or concerns or? 00:09:56
How does the? 00:10:03
Do we know how many we've given away? I know we took a we rested last year on the tree giveaway. 00:10:06
We do it like every other year, right? Pardon. That was the question I was going to just relate it to. That is our cycle every 00:10:13
other year. That's how we've done it. We've just, you know, we've kind of panned out that way. I don't think it was really set in 00:10:18
stone, but it's worked out. It's been convenient and being able to ask for the money as well. But sorry, no, no, you're good. What 00:10:23
I was asking is the. 00:10:28
How many did we give away? Do we know what the last one? 00:10:34
We had it was significant, Yeah, the, the, the last giveaway was about 500 trees because I remember pulling them all off the truck 00:10:38
and the tractor. It was a full day. It was interesting. It came early and they had two sports teams coming. It was a school day 00:10:43
and so. 00:10:49
The committee did exhausting, so this will be significantly. 00:10:55
Hold down in terms of how many trees we're going to give away. 00:11:00
I was just curious what the cost is. So a lot of just inflationary hits. 00:11:05
The cost of transport and whatnot is limited the amount that we're going to be able to. 00:11:10
Correct, Yeah, it's interesting with between freight and then inflation with trees and also species. It's it, but a lot of the 00:11:15
growers are coming out of Oregon and they have some issues between wildfires and disease and S it's just drove prices up. It's 00:11:21
limited to selection. And so we we work with some vendors and we can get ahead of it. We can get bulk. But yeah, that's and it's 00:11:27
more manageable. I think as we you know it's, it's a great event. We get two days at first and then we try to do a full day, but I 00:11:33
think. 00:11:39
This is a realistic number, I think is something we can manage as a committee, have great success and not have any. 00:11:45
I guess heartache on saying we're never going to do this again, which I think I heard that from the committee. 00:11:52
Yeah, you can do 100 and 5200. 00:11:58
Just sent that's manageable to do every year. So kind of a signature event, that was it. I think if it goes well and it's 00:12:01
streamlined and we can look at doing it annually. 00:12:05
You must be surprised with great cost, those should be coming down just two years ago. There still is the pandemic and the 00:12:11
pandemic shot stuff up and out. The number of trucking industries are. 00:12:16
The other way so. 00:12:21
Could be surprised there and we'll do I mean the reality is. 00:12:23
Depending on how that goes, it's just more trees. We're going to spend that money and get the maximum amount of trees delivered. 00:12:27
You know, I guess really the comparable would be two years ago that is that right because of the. 00:12:33
Yeah, we asked. I think we asked for 20,000. It was similar, but I'm trying to I'm. 00:12:45
I think we had some confusion on the committee on the way we raised funds. We we've been through some training and thanks to Holly 00:12:50
and Gina have clarified that for our group because we we did great with fundraising. I think we raised closer to $10,000. But we 00:12:56
the way it came in and how we were able to then get it back to the city, we were able to use it for those purchase. So it's pretty 00:13:02
comparable we're $20,000 aspect. 00:13:08
Is this the way? 00:13:17
Does it make sense to budget it this way with the 20,000 in the city and 5000? 00:13:19
So the way it's reflected in your budget is the full 25,000 because the city will be making the purchase. 00:13:25
There's $5000 in revenue. 00:13:33
And that would be for the donations. 00:13:38
OK. 00:13:47
Anybody else want to say anything nice about traffic? 00:13:49
I was joking. 00:13:53
Brought my kids in here No, I really appreciate the kind words and I said I just I love this community it's. 00:13:56
Pleasure to be able to work with all of you. I go to a lot of council meetings and this is definitely a great group and just for 00:14:03
what it's worth, it's just. 00:14:07
Soft part of my heart and I just didn't miss all yourself. Thank you. 00:14:11
Thanks for stepping up. Yeah, boss, look forward to working with you. It's very interesting. You did a great job. Thank you guys. 00:14:16
We don't want to disinvite you from the rest of the Councilman. You're welcome to say that you would like. 00:14:24
But if you get up and walk out, we won't be offended either. 00:14:31
All right, I. 00:14:37
So we're going to move P&C down South. We'll go. 00:14:40
Back up to the top and we'll start with any questions on the budget amendments. 00:14:43
Are there any other public hearings? 00:14:53
The other thing is I would like to revisit that. 00:14:58
Interesting. You just see, I mean there might be some. 00:15:01
Revenue there, I can't remember what it was here in the revenue on ours, but. 00:15:05
We're at a million. My thought was if we're at, was it $1,000,000? 00:15:11
Of interest. 00:15:17
That's probably we had to probably plug the same. Why would we not plug the same thing for next year? 00:15:20
Because we're not going to spend down fund balance, right or we don't anticipate it right now other than rates potentially 00:15:25
lowering right away, yeah. 00:15:29
I mean it depends on if you. 00:15:34
I mean, if the intent of the council was to maybe lower the property tax analysis by that interest amount, probably caution you 00:15:42
about that since you can't plan on that interest number staying at that level over time. 00:15:50
But I don't know if that's your intent or just to reflect money that we're likely to receive without changing any of the other 00:15:59
revenue or expense items. No, my only intent would be to try to make them. 00:16:06
Budget is realistic as we can if the council, you know, felt like we get more revenue and adjust, that's fine, but it's our best 00:16:13
guess. Last time we guessed early perhaps and now we have more information to. Interest rates went up and our fund balance went up 00:16:20
and all of a sudden we're not used to 10 For years we weren't used to making any interest because interest rates are like 28% and 00:16:26
so. 00:16:32
I don't know. I just kind of curious. I can't remember what the revenue number was. 00:16:39
I thought it was 400 and something if we're not. 00:16:45
Going to have that changed in order to adjust that tax increase. Can we do that and just. 00:16:48
Have that, absolutely. I think that will just show more going to balance. 00:16:58
This says reflected as real as possible. 00:17:08
Personally. 00:17:13
Yeah. And we'll definitely look at that and have some numbers for you to review in a week. 00:17:14
Yeah, I think you can be conservative, Gina, but just. 00:17:21
Based on what we have in our budget this year and what you're seeing year to date, what you think would be a realistic revenue 00:17:24
flood? 00:17:28
Well then, are we ready to move on to the re tone? 00:17:40
OK. 00:17:48
So. 00:17:50
We've got the staff report from Kerry. We've got some public comment. I just had two questions. I was kind of reviewing the map. I 00:17:52
wanted to see that. So I understood where the two. 00:17:57
The folks that responded in a public hearing? Mr. O'Brien. 00:18:05
And Mr. 00:18:10
I want to hear what you say. 00:18:17
I can't read my own writing. I have prop me. 00:18:21
Correctly. 00:18:24
Romney, I can't tell you what that with that nice accent. 00:18:32
I assume there are the two lots that are just West. 00:18:39
The depicted. 00:18:43
Recent application which is R110R210. 00:18:46
And so there's two lots there. There are 110, John or Carrie, right? 00:18:50
So I have a question, those two lots, do they enter off a nations way or off of 5600 S? 00:18:56
This one enters off 56 and nation's weight. So they have a driveway here and a driveway here. This one has this is the duplex 00:19:03
right? So there's a driveway here and a driveway here. So is that a non conforming? 00:19:09
Oh, so it's acting like an RQ 10? 00:19:16
Actually. 00:19:21
Only on 56. 00:19:23
That's the quorum, Yeah. So there's not a driveway. 00:19:26
Here. Oh yeah, no, we can't. It looks like, but it's not. It's just working. 00:19:30
That it's R210 all the way around that lot. 00:19:37
Yes. So I wanted to clarify something. They were concerned about height increases, but you were saying it's not going to increase 00:19:41
the height. It's the same in R110 and R10. 00:19:46
The only thing that would change slightly I think is the lock coverage. 00:19:54
Slightly higher allowance in R210. 00:19:59
It is 19,000, it's .44. So technically if they were to rebuild. 00:20:03
One single family house, a lot size grandson, 35 feet right now. 00:20:13
Because your blood sizes are based on. 00:20:16
A rezone which? 00:20:21
Subdivision. 00:20:23
Bring the height down right now. If they were to raise everything, rebuild the. 00:20:26
What the holiday special is in the larger home. 00:20:33
It would be 35 feet. 00:20:36
Could be. 00:20:38
Is is that? 00:20:40
Bottom or the back of the lot, is that the garage or the shed or whatever this is? This is all kind of patio area, like a core. 00:20:44
Give it to that. This is the building. So there's like a door that goes in here, that's all. 00:20:51
I was also wondering because it sounds like the reason the property wants to do this is because they're just too small to 00:20:58
subdivide it. 00:21:01
The new Adu ordinance. 00:21:05
Allow them to do more what they were. 00:21:08
Yeah, in the 1st place, if if the lot size minimum lot size for an external Edu is reduced with the proposed code amendment, they 00:21:12
could do an Edu on on the property. 00:21:19
So it's Edu versus audible? 00:21:28
So Adu but with higher height. 00:21:32
That opportunity, but less density because you have two. 00:21:40
Units essentially the primary and Adu. 00:21:45
Versus up to three on the RQ 10 you said, but with lower height stand? 00:21:48
Because of the block coverage equation. 00:21:54
So. 00:21:57
So they could go higher than with this free zone. 8080 U was still behind limited. 00:21:59
To an accessory building. 00:22:06
Right, but the primary primary house could go up to 35. 00:22:07
And then the 80 existence of the Adu does not change that math or does it? Yeah, it does not. 00:22:12
So. 00:22:24
With the access to the property. 00:22:27
I recognize that we're talking about. 00:22:42
Two additional. 00:22:45
Does it also be site plan issues, not zone issues? Reevaluate all the infrastructure. 00:22:48
When they're applying for ability permit or if they were to do a subdivision, so if they're subdividing, we're going to look at 00:22:54
all that infrastructure they're required to get will serve letters from utility providers saying that there is service for any 00:23:00
additional units are being added. So that would be at the subdivision process. 00:23:06
Yeah, to me the only. 00:23:13
Me from my standpoint, really compelling argument against this is the. 00:23:17
The increase of units and the impact on infrastructure. 00:23:22
Because the, you know, like Terry was saying. 00:23:27
The applicants. 00:23:31
Questions about getting fire serviced into the site and adequate parking for the site. That stuff's going to be dealt with during 00:23:33
the application process and a process. And they're not going to get a permit unless Fire Marshall signs off and they have adequate 00:23:39
parking. So to me, that's not to me, that's. 00:23:45
It's and honestly it's. 00:23:52
Adding infrastructure under the site if it was. If they were coming in off of nations way, I'd probably be more inclined to give 00:23:56
that some consideration, but whether? 00:24:01
Entering and exiting off the 5600 S insignificant amount of. 00:24:07
Traffic going on to that infrastructure, at least from my standpoint and. 00:24:12
The height like you say, if they increase their density. 00:24:18
You know if they just decide to do an Ade, they can keep it 35 feet, right Paul? Is what you're saying? 00:24:21
If they decide to act on their entitlement, which would give them two additional units, they would actually drop the height of 32 00:24:28
feet, right? 00:24:32
Could they get? Could they get? 00:24:38
If they get. 00:24:40
Three say they apply under R2. 00:24:43
10/30/10 Entitlement. 00:24:47
Based off our new discussions on AD use, can they get AD use on those not in an R2? That's only R1 thing right? So it would be R2 00:24:52
so all residential zones if they did detach structures? 00:24:58
Could they get into tax? Didn't you say it was 6900 feet? 00:25:06
So. 00:25:11
They get an Adu, an external Adu and a 6200 foot. 00:25:14
They would have to meet all the. 00:25:25
Is there a different in the side set back? 00:25:29
Between the R210 and the R110. 00:25:33
No, the assessments are the same. 00:25:36
So it's a. It's a dimensional. 00:25:39
Requirement based upon the size of the property. So as the property gets a little bit smaller. 00:25:41
Your setbacks actually. 00:25:47
More flexible so you can actually fit a decent size. 00:25:50
So. 00:25:54
If the result happens, it would be the same distance from any buildings that would be built as if it doesn't happen. 00:25:56
I mean for these these two neighbors. 00:26:05
The presence of the access lane, the private driveway, whatever site it goes on. 00:26:08
Dramatically reduces. 00:26:15
Bill's footprint. 00:26:17
Because you need to have that 20 foot wide access to the fire and emergency. 00:26:19
And once you're taking out access to that, that affects the total number of units, so. 00:26:24
It's possible that once you take out the access on this, it would only result in 2 units. 00:26:36
Do you know the thing that strikes me is. 00:26:42
Interesting, I guess is these two nonconforming? 00:26:46
On the West, for all intents and purposes, that's as if that were zone guard. 00:26:49
Both of them are just one. So I was looking at. These two properties are the same size as this property. This one has a. 00:26:55
2 units attached and then a single family which would be essentially the same attached or a single family and if they would like 00:27:06
A2 and attached. 00:27:10
It's the same amount of land. 00:27:14
With the access from 5600 S, it's just because those lots are divided that they were. 00:27:18
Yeah, yeah, They have the advantage of having a Roach down the side, so it's easy. 00:27:25
Whereas a long narrow property is much more difficult. 00:27:33
And. 00:27:39
And the other option is being incorporated into this subdivision community, but they would all have to be willing to do that to 00:27:41
put an attachment there. 00:27:46
So I just want to make sure so you said. 00:27:54
As R1 they could do an Adu, but if they went to R2 they could not. That's right. 00:27:58
They can. They could do an EU in an R2 zone in a single family detached structure. 00:28:05
So you can still build a single family structure in an R2 zone. So if they were to build a single family structure, they could do 00:28:14
an 80, whether that's internal or external. 00:28:19
But they couldn't do 3 primaries with 380 use. 00:28:25
And for even 33 primaries enter. 00:28:30
When you detach it in your current ordinance, you're looking at. 00:28:35
You have to start. 00:28:39
Oh, that's right. 00:28:41
So their only option? They knew that would be the same as being. 00:28:48
A single primary with 182. 00:28:51
Primaries and. 00:28:54
So the math kind of works out there. 00:28:58
So it looks like realistically the likelihood is probably only what you are. 00:29:03
Unit of some kind. 00:29:08
Any other questions? 00:29:16
I mean, for those that are present, I would see this as being on the agenda for both next week on the 13th. 00:29:17
You're welcome to stay. 00:29:30
Thank you. 00:29:34
All right. 00:29:37
We're going to skip B&C and go to D and start with the Arts Council and the Historical Commission, because Megan's going to handle 00:29:39
both of those. 00:29:42
I have to compliment you to before you start because you you filled some pretty good shoes with Cheryl and you've just done a 00:29:53
great job. I think Paul, would you corroborate? Absolutely. That was a great level of. 00:29:59
Excitement and. 00:30:06
Yeah, everybody's fired up. I work with some really great people, so I'm lucky. 00:30:09
And I'm extra too, so I have to connect my computer. 00:30:18
OK, it's working. 00:30:40
I have the pleasure of reporting on all the funnest things happening in holiday with the Holiday Arts Council and the Holiday 00:30:45
Historical Commission. 00:30:49
If you don't mind indulging me, I have a few video clips scattered throughout the presentation because I really want to show you 00:30:54
some of this great work done by these great volunteers. 00:30:59
And we'll start with the Holiday Arts Council. The the blurry video that you're going to see next was taken by me as a volunteer 00:31:06
last year at the Blue Moon Festival. 00:31:11
All this preface it I was a volunteer back then. Well, which year would be? 00:31:16
The lightning which my camera didn't capture. 00:31:34
It's about to stop the moon. 00:31:37
I wanted to show this because I just this. 00:31:43
Video I actually took and it was the moment that I just looked around as a volunteer resident of Holiday and was so grateful to 00:31:46
live here in this place with these people and consequently was the moment I also said I have to apply for this job. 00:31:54
And luckily I'm here today. I. 00:32:04
The Holiday Arts Council has a great mission to inspire, engage, and unify the community through our feet. Invite the community to 00:32:08
also discover themselves in art, and I hope that you'll see that scattered throughout our programs as I give you an overview of 00:32:13
what they do. 00:32:18
We had just starting with last early this fiscal year. 00:32:25
15,600 attendees at 9 summer concerts. That's including July 4th and Blue Moon. 00:32:32
3500 people we are estimating attended the Blue Moon Festival. 00:32:40
With the goal of activating our village Plaza, we highlighted. 00:32:47
87 artists through the Play Air and Closet Fest and Chakra Block. As a note, Chakra Block will be taking a hopefully a brief 00:32:52
hiatus this year, hopefully to return next year. 00:32:58
225 people attended the plein-air Quick Drive Plaza Fest. 00:33:09
And the opening reception at our small business partner Relics Gallery, UMM. 00:33:15
Our reef making class and holiday concert in December were at capacity. Here's a little clip of the Wesley Bell ringers and 00:33:22
they're very appreciative audience. 00:33:27
To kick off the new year, our tiny art show was bigger than it's ever been before, with 146 artists and 402 pieces in our space, 00:33:48
which was all the hangers we have. 00:33:55
This is the fine art show. 00:34:05
Which followed in March. 00:34:07
This is after the crowd cleared out because it's when I got a moment to greet it. 00:34:10
Are you going to tell us how many attended this one? Yeah, between 20 art and fine art, 1737 people attended the exhibit. In total 00:34:19
this night at the opening reception was at least 500. 00:34:27
Very warm. We highlighted 228 artists and really I said it reached capacity. That really exceeded capacity because I had to go out 00:34:38
and get more hangers at the last minute. 00:34:44
We then went on to our Creative Aging program, which is in its third year. We got a grant through the Utah Division of Arts and 00:34:53
Museums to continue that program. 00:34:58
New this year, we had a partnership with the Mount Olympus Senior Center and conducted the class over there. It's a smaller reach 00:35:06
but very impactful the especially for our residents in holiday. 00:35:12
This is the Reflections of Dance concert. 00:35:24
This is Cottonwood High School. 00:35:29
Dance Company, one of the, I think 12 companies featured that night. 00:35:32
Some very captivating answers. 00:35:42
138 students performed that night to a crowd of we're guessing 650 at Olympus Junior High. 00:35:53
The page to stage Children's theater is happening this very week. 00:36:04
It was a registration was announced and then an hour later we had to close the registration because it was full. And then a few 00:36:10
hours later the wait list was full as well. So it's very popular program they'll be performing tomorrow, the snitches at 11:30 in 00:36:17
the big common room. So we encourage you to come if you want your cup filled for the weekend. 00:36:25
We also had. 00:36:34
A very big year for our public art program. 00:36:37
We installed two utility box straps in collaboration with Cotton Elementary and Briggs Elementary, and also installed Gathering, 00:36:43
which I'm sure you've noticed in the Village Plaza by nationally renowned artist Susan Sokola. 00:36:49
You've also probably noticed the exhibits out in the lobby. That's our Artist of the Month program where we highlight. 00:36:56
Holiday resident artists who are very skilled with a free exhibit, they don't have to pay any entry fees of their work and a 00:37:03
feature in the City Journal. 00:37:09
On them and their work. If you would believe it, the first month, this month is a wildlife photographer who is a student. So I 00:37:17
think that's amazing. Go out and look at it. You would never get to the students. 00:37:23
Looking forward. 00:37:34
The Holiday Arts Council is requesting A5 thousand $5535 increase to the Summer Concert Series funding. 00:37:36
To support rising management and rental costs will also be increasing our support to our public art program. Both the Holiday Arts 00:37:46
Council and the City Council have approved a spend down of the arts fund balance for the use of public art, public art consultant 00:37:53
and the addition of more public art. The fund balance is currently. 00:38:00
174 thousand. 00:38:07
And these numbers here are sort of placeholders until we hire a contract with a consultant. 00:38:11
But it is anticipated that the expenditures will be just a percentage of the overall fund balance. 00:38:19
And one thing I'll know is those two items, the public art consultant and the additional funding for public art are not reflected 00:38:25
in your budget. If you're supportive of that item, that'll be something we can adjust before next week. 00:38:33
I support. 00:38:44
Do we have any But public art? Are we? 00:38:48
Are we thinking there's opportunities in the city to start? Is that what that person would be doing? 00:38:51
Is finding. 00:38:57
You know, places and opportunities, places that helping us figure out what it should be and. 00:39:00
And they we have a current public art plan and we anticipate that this person would make that plan more robust. 00:39:07
So that we have. 00:39:14
A more robust document to work from moving forward. 00:39:16
And one thing we've talked about is can we use public art to unify different areas of the city? So I think one thing that this 00:39:21
person could be doing is exploring is there a theme or that we could use, say, at Holiday Crossroads. 00:39:29
And Bill Rock and other areas through the city, just so when you I don't know if you're familiar with the Park City Moose. 00:39:39
But do you know you're in Park City when you see a variety of this? 00:39:47
Go the wrong direction. 00:39:54
We've got a lot more utility boxes we can. 00:40:02
The Arts Council is very interested in pursuing that. 00:40:05
So sorry on that was there. 00:40:12
So is that like a one time thing is what you're thinking? 00:40:15
I think that's the idea that it's just to get us sort of rolling. Is that something where there might be grant opportunities? It 00:40:18
seems like there's always all kinds of grant opportunities on the. 00:40:23
Our side and so. 00:40:29
Yeah, there's always opportunities for that and I think to help us find those opportunities. 00:40:36
I'll switch gears then to the Historical Commission. 00:40:50
I'm happy to share their wins. As I'm sure you've noticed, the Historical Commission has seen a lot of growth over the past year. 00:40:55
There are several several growing programs within the Historical Commission. The Speaker Series has risen in popularity, with 322 00:41:03
people having attended just the three Speaker series this year. So January on to now, the History Night in October I. 00:41:12
Displays are historic artifacts, makes them public and brings them out of storage and makes them viewable to the public. 00:41:23
Our preservation month, which just wrapped up in May. You probably saw the signs all around. 00:41:31
The city was very successful and actually have updated numbers for you. I just looked at it before coming over here. As of earlier 00:41:37
today, we had 2790 views of the historic holiday website. 00:41:44
With 89% of those views coming from people scanning the QR code. So that's people actually at the community. 00:41:51
Scanning it and viewing it and reading the stories and. 00:41:58
Haven't got a chance to take a look through that website and read those stories. It really helps those buildings come alive and on 00:42:02
a really special way. The Historical Commission also has a couple other events coming up this this fall, they'll be hosting a 00:42:07
historic square dance. I don't know if you know this, but there's a deep tradition of dance in this community that goes all the 00:42:13
way back to settlers. 00:42:18
So this event will be and continues on today as is evidenced by the the dance concert we lost. 00:42:26
They will be highlighting that connection at that event by a participatory experience in squared in line dancing. We'll also be 00:42:35
hosting a 25th anniversary event in November, which we're really excited about, which will bring on all mayors and city managers 00:42:44
that have served our city for 25 years and in a panel. It should be a really special night. 00:42:52
Another big project, of course, is the Holiday Historic Lot kiosks and displays. This project, I know you know, is funded by a 00:43:01
track grant. We've hired a consultant, Briggs Forge, to do the research, design and installation of this feature. 00:43:10
We're in the design phase now, which is currently being shepherded by a steering committee that includes Holly Smith, John 00:43:19
Tearling, Sandy Meadows, who's the current Chair of Historic Commission and will be continuing on in this role on the steering 00:43:26
committee and myself will also be inviting engineering to the stand committee as we get closer to installation. 00:43:33
The Historical Commission looking forward is requesting a total of $9500 from the city. This is a $4500 increase from last year To 00:43:42
support additional events, a Commission strategic planning retreat as the on board, new commissioners and archival storage for 00:43:47
our. 00:43:52
Thank you. 00:44:01
It doesn't seem like a lot. 00:44:05
We try to keep it up eligible number. 00:44:08
So it's. 00:44:16
That number plus the $650,000. 00:44:17
Well, actually, actually. 00:44:24
Didn't we have a 200? 00:44:28
Dollar Max on that or? 00:44:30
So yeah, I guess that is a pretty good, I guess the program. 00:44:32
Yeah, I was just saying maybe it's the stuff we have added. 00:44:41
Which is noticeable. 00:44:46
Doesn't cost a lot of money like you know the read the story on this property. 00:44:49
The speaker series part. 00:44:56
They don't have a lot of cost though, but there are other things that Historical Commission wanted to do that. 00:44:59
We'd be open to. 00:45:07
Taking a look at that. 00:45:09
Because they have become much more active in terms of the. 00:45:12
Stuff they're doing at the community. 00:45:16
It's high impact. 00:45:19
Great job. Thank you, thank you, thank you to our volunteers. 00:45:26
Great bunch of folks. 00:45:31
Thank you very much. Thank you. 00:45:33
First time you've ever done that. You seem like a season pro Thank you. 00:45:42
My stomach. 00:45:48
OK, this is the one we've been waiting for. 00:45:56
The city attorney. 00:45:59
So I don't have a special. 00:46:03
Lecture. For this one, I'll just refer you to a page in the budget document, which is on page 110. Click. 00:46:07
So a couple of changes in the city attorney line item this year. 00:46:20
We have an increase, I think based just on our expected hourly fee increases. I. 00:46:29
And I believe that is. 00:46:40
$1000 that we're adding to the budget. 00:46:42
And then we are also including an increase of $25,000. 00:46:46
For a project we've talked about which is. 00:46:54
Are first in what will probably be two or maybe three years of a comprehensive code review and updates. 00:46:59
And so our plan is to start this year with with some titles. 00:47:09
Hopefully be easier, more straightforward ones. And then after we're also in the process of a general plan update for land use. 00:47:17
Once that's completed, we'll take on the board meeting land use. 00:47:25
So you think our code? 00:47:35
A lot of. I mean, is there a lot of just? 00:47:40
Clean up. 00:47:47
So is that is that bad? 00:47:57
We've given our heads that's a good mix. 00:48:07
County. 00:48:11
Thank you. 00:48:13
So who's going to do it then? Is that? 00:48:15
I don't think that's been discussed in great detail yet, but your code is. 00:48:19
Your land use code is more complex than most. 00:48:26
And it's, but it's not in an unusual condition, I guess I would say for a city that incorporated 20. 00:48:30
25 years from now, almost. 00:48:37
And. 00:48:40
Started with a boiler plate that came from the county and yeah. 00:48:43
It has grown arms and legs like. 00:48:49
And sometimes you cut off a head and another one grows, it has that. 00:48:52
But I just think. 00:48:57
Needs a little more. 00:48:59
Organization and there there are concepts that have been. 00:49:01
Used and applied in a really really good way that need to be clarified in the language. 00:49:07
Your processes I think need some clarification. 00:49:14
In a lot of ways. So it's just it's one of those things where you're at that age as a city. 00:49:18
So. 00:49:23
But this is where it should be. 00:49:25
Attorney, Yeah. 00:49:28
So we anticipate we. 00:49:30
Resources from Todd's office, perhaps? 00:49:33
Some dedicated resources over two or three months in addition to staff it will it'll be a staff priority as well. 00:49:37
OK. 00:49:47
That was really. 00:49:51
Is that it? That's it. All right on the debt. Sorry, Todd, we spend more time if you want. 00:49:55
Great, great. I'm sorry. 00:50:03
Do you want to? 00:50:07
What do you want to do? I'm really excited to be able to share an update on our program tonight. I think it's been about a year 00:50:10
since we talked about the program. 00:50:16
And to Captain Rivers Point, we are always excited about these opportunities to bring more federal, state and other local dollars 00:50:22
into our community. For every dollar that we find somewhere else, it frees up that dollar to be spent on a non grant eligible 00:50:28
project or for us to save it was to maximize. 00:50:34
How do you get to go to the next site please? 00:50:41
So tonight, I just wanted to touch on five things. So really briefly, I just wanted to review what our grant process looks like, 00:50:46
highlight some of the completed projects that we accomplished this past year, what the budget looks like for the coming year, what 00:50:52
applications we have pending, and then some of the funding strategies that we'll be working on for our priority projects. 00:50:58
So our grant process, I think a lot of you are familiar with this, but I just wanted to highlight kind of the five big steps. 00:51:07
There's a lot more that goes into this, but one thing we try to do in the city is we always start with our projects. 00:51:13
One thing you don't want to do when you're building a funding grants program is try to fit programs into grant opportunities 00:51:18
because what we don't want to do is get distracted. You all have sent a pretty clear priorities for our community. We have some 00:51:25
real capital needs that we need to work on. So that is our focus. So what we do when we look for projects is we go to our general 00:51:31
plan, we go to our city engineers, Joe and Jared who are working on capital projects. We go to John's department, some of the work 00:51:37
that they're doing and like the. 00:51:43
Portal. We visit all different kinds of sources and that's where we get our project list. 00:51:50
From there we try to find grant programs that fit the projects. 00:51:56
And we do an assessment. One thing you'll notice when we look at some of the projects later on in this presentation is we don't go 00:52:00
after small dollars. It's not in the best interest of our limited staff and revenue sources to go after like $2000.00. So what we 00:52:06
try to do is find the biggest thing for our bug and we try to find ways to match those resources. So in some cases, we don't have 00:52:12
any expenditures on the city site. 00:52:18
We have the third seven. First, we applied for the money. 00:52:25
And then we have kind of an implementation separate a lot of times and a lot of these projects Jared and his department will take 00:52:28
over for implementation. And we have a lot of steps we have to complete. There's reporting requirements, there's reimbursement 00:52:35
processes and things like that, that we're required to do a spread of a part of the grant work. And then we always do a lessons 00:52:43
learned. Over the years we've come up with some lessons learned. Federal process right now is adding about 40% project costs. 00:52:50
So we have a threshold where we really don't apply for federal programs over like $250,000 because it's just not worth it once we 00:52:58
get into it. So there's things that have to be able to take into consideration. 00:53:03
Right now I have a big spreadsheet that's got all different kinds of details. We keep track of all these things. 00:53:45
We are looking at some grant management software, so I think that would make our life a lot easier as well. And then a new thing, 00:53:51
as our staff team has developed overtime, we now have a lot of people on our team that can do priority, which is phenomenal. So 00:53:57
Megan Aberman, she does grant writing for a lot of our arts and culture programs and and Francis Garcia has a great writing 00:54:02
background. Justice to Four just wrote a grant for us. Mcbartley wrote a grant for us. I think we have a lot more robust 00:54:08
resources. 00:54:14
And as we start to build out these programs, we're going to be trying to get money. 00:54:20
So since I've been involved in the city grants over the past 13 years, we've secured $46.45 million in grant funding and I think 00:54:26
we're going to hit 50 million this year. That's my goal. 00:54:31
And that's really a credit to all of us in our organization. 00:54:38
A lot of times what I was saying to Pastor John and I've been working together is I just put it down on paper, but this is really 00:54:43
a team effort. These are things, a lot of these projects have been in the works for like a decade. It takes time, as you know. So 00:54:48
we're really proud that we're reaching these milestones. And one other number I want to highlight is 96% of that covers 96% of our 00:54:53
project costs. 00:54:58
Getting a lot of money to do a lot and making a university funds go as far as they can. 00:55:04
You go to the next side please. 00:55:09
The two crossings were like 27 miles apart. 00:55:45
Which if you're walking between the parks and long distance to walk, you get across the shakes of this project. Cut that in half 00:55:48
and we're looking at other projects like that just because of our other community, we think there's different things we could do 00:55:53
to help pedestrians cross streets and other places in town. 00:55:58
It just better positions us when we put applications forward. So we're going to talk about that that project now because now we're 00:56:38
going to try to get money for it. 00:56:41
To the next site. 00:56:46
So in the upcoming budget, we have a number of projects, 7 projects that total $9.95 million in total grant funding that are going 00:56:48
to be moving forward. So we've got our historical exhibit experience project that's underway. We are anticipating of spending a 00:56:56
lot of money this for a lot of the fabrication and installation mentioned earlier in your meeting across the hall 27 and 00:57:03
underneath design on track. We've got phase one underway. It's going to be fantastic. 00:57:10
Something I think that's been a priority for a while, 5600 S and Highland Drive, we have bridge replacement projects that are 00:57:18
going to be moving forward. Jared's working on those. 00:57:23
And then John is going to be kicking off our general plan update. We hate our match last year's, but it's moving forward. It's 00:58:01
just so you don't hear about that. And if you're wondering why it's not in there. 00:58:06
Right. And then Megan has a number of grants that she gets for the arts fund that are included in the arts Fund. So they're not, 00:58:12
they're still there, they're just not in the grand fund. We are hoping to clean up our turn of account. So hopefully some of this 00:58:16
will be a little bit easier to follow in the future. 00:58:21
OK. Next slide please. Yeah. So your bottom threshold then federal grants is like 250 grand and then outside of that where it is 00:58:27
at 75, what was the kind of low, the low end? 00:58:33
It depends on what we're doing. If it's not very staff intensive or if we can fold it into another program where we're doing, I 00:58:40
think we'll do a lower, but we tend to not go after. 00:58:44
Love now because one thing in grant writing is. 00:58:50
The amount of funding that you get does not correlate with the effort of the application. 00:58:54
There's some applications that I've worked like 80 hours on and we'll get like a couple 100,000, another 2015 and we'll get a 00:58:59
million like there's no. 00:59:03
No correlation. So what we kind of win all those pieces? 00:59:08
But if there's like a $5000 grant for trees that feeds into another project that we're doing, we will go after it. 00:59:12
But we wouldn't just do that as a stand alone and try to create a program. I think two staff intensive and. 00:59:18
We'd rather spend time. 00:59:25
That's a great question. 00:59:27
So we do have other grant funded projects that aren't in your budget that could move forward participating on a few things, 00:59:30
reconstruction and complete stream project. We've had a couple of awards that will allow us to get started on designer right away 00:59:37
acquisition and that's not quite ready to kick off. But do you know we have money here about 5 million of our $30 million total 00:59:45
cost in place and we also have a joint project with Mill Creek to enhance was Edge Blvd. So the bike leads. 00:59:52
Really popular. We're just coordinating with Mill Creek to kind of line up. 01:00:01
So that one might come forward to you and you would come back with the budget. 01:00:04
If that was your Curtis excess here. 01:00:08
We have money for 2017 space two, that one we just are waiting for the money to become available which will happen next July 1st 01:00:11
in 2025 and then we have the 45th at Highland Dr. intersection improvement. So we picked up the right away and now we're just 01:00:17
waiting for that money to come online so we can certainly intersection improvement. 01:00:24
And then lastly, we have a signal optimization project. This is going to be basically so all of our signal lights intersections in 01:00:31
town. We did a study and we identified those that need to be upgraded and the idea is that we'll time them. 01:00:37
We'll be able to time them so traffic feels a lot more smoother. That's going to be also coming down the line. 01:00:44
All right, pending applications, Gina shared some good news about. 01:00:52
Sorry. So that last one is approved for that on the yeah, they've been approved, yeah. 01:00:59
Yeah. And then we have some pending applications that we are just waiting for final decisions. So Gina shared for example, the 01:01:04
City Hall seismic retrofit, they were going to be included in the recommendation for Representative Curtis, but that's not final. 01:01:10
So it kind of looks in this category. 01:01:15
Takedown, but all of these things that are on this list right now are looking really good. 01:01:22
We are just waiting for final decisions. 01:01:27
So do they give you one to turn in an application? Some kind of indication like this looks OK, that's good, and they'll usually 01:01:31
use the words you recommended for funding. 01:01:35
So then we just wait for it to go through their recruiting bodies or the process. 01:01:39
And then we'll get a notice of final order agreement. So it just takes a minute. 01:01:44
Oh, the 45th house is the one we talked about. That's between Olympus Park and not quite to the 711. The idea is we're going to 01:01:57
get down to the 711, so there's a complete order right there for folks to use. 01:02:04
And then we have other applications that we're working on. I won't. 01:02:14
Which brings us to the last night that Gina touched on this in her city manager's report, and I just wanted to talk real quick 01:02:23
about our things that we're going to be working on as a management team. 01:02:28
These three projects are really pricey, So what we want to do is try to put together somebody options that Gina said that we'll 01:02:33
bring back to the council with potential funding sources, grants and other things and what that might look like for each project 01:02:38
as we put it together. 01:02:44
The seismic upgrade and renovation of City Hall, like Gina said, it's now going to be slightly delayed as we wait for that 01:02:51
community project from the process to play out. 01:02:55
And the adaptive reuse of Spring Lane. 01:03:00
We have our consultant working on some things on this, but we are also going to be taking a look at it. I do want to give the 01:03:03
Council. 01:03:06
Because this is a potential lease arrangement, I think getting grant funding is going to be more difficult for this project. 01:03:10
Technically we can't apply for different sources, but my worry is some of the review committees will have a harder time kind of 01:03:17
breaking through. 01:03:21
I just want you to kind of have that in the back of your mind. The grant money that we got for other two parks might be harder. 01:03:27
Have we have we discussed with? 01:03:31
School district who own the property of teaming up with them in terms of where they. 01:03:36
Ownership people, we can ask how we can do that and overcome that through that sort of team approach. So some of the grant 01:03:43
applications will ask for proof of property ownership and it could be the applicant owning it or partnered. So we can check the 01:03:49
box. I think it's more. 01:03:54
It will be more tricky on who's reviewing the application. So if we're up against another City Park where they own the park, that 01:04:01
just might be hard for us to to come out of it. But if if the school district wants to come out as kind of the lead applicant, 01:04:06
that might flip it. 01:04:11
They can take credit, they can take the lead, but then they would be the. 01:04:22
But I think we're going to try to figure out how we can. 01:04:28
Open at least in big picture concepts to that idea. I don't know at all. And there might be other Eagles too that we can talk 01:04:35
about maybe finding maybe there's Family Foundation or donor that would be wanting to step up and. 01:04:42
And then Highland Dr. of course, we have about 5 million. We need a lot more. We're going to have, we're coming up with some 01:04:54
solutions for that, that one. We do have a couple of applications for planning for this fall. What we are trying to do with this 01:05:00
project is breaking out some of the elements. So for example, there are a lot of bike pet improvements. So we're going to pursue 01:05:05
some grant funding this. 01:05:10
Tailored to that head so we can kind of search together. 01:05:16
With the goals again, that we are getting as much money as we can from other sources. 01:05:20
So that's kind of the big update. I don't know if you all have any other questions. 01:05:28
But we just really appreciate your support, I think. 01:05:34
In different circumstances, you all have done a great job giving us a hand pleasure to support or reaching out to some of our 01:05:37
partners that we're trying to get funding up for that. 01:05:43
Thank you. 01:05:51
Fabulous. 01:05:56
I think I should say something, but. 01:06:01
I don't know, just I should say. 01:06:06
Gosh, I've been doing this 11 years now. And from when? 01:06:09
When I started and I didn't know anything and now I know almost nothing. 01:06:13
But I don't think we had great a great knowledge. 01:06:19
Willingness to go find where the pots of money are and how to access those pots of money. And he made a joke about it a little 01:06:28
bit, but it's not a joke. 01:06:31
We pay into all these pots of money. 01:06:37
And you have to. You know the more you know about. 01:06:39
Where that money is and what that money was created for. 01:06:44
And then how to apply and execute those applications is how you get that funding. 01:06:50
And we have been. 01:06:56
I mean there was number list like this when they came over. I'll just tell you that we. 01:06:59
The amount of money we've been able to. 01:07:04
Receive over the last number of years and the amount we know have in the queue is incredible and Holly, you need to get a lot of 01:07:09
credit for that. You've done a phenomenal job and I know there's a lot of. 01:07:14
Lot of people involved as a team member, but it's a big, big deal. I mean, you talk about a good ROI, was it 43,000,000? Is that 01:07:21
what you said, 4646 million and 96% of it and we're probably matching 4% well. 01:07:27
You know, it's been a great benefit to the city and I think will be a great benefit to the city going forward. So it's not, it's 01:07:35
not a little deal. And you know, and I need to say about our committees too, like when I came on board, Paul's been around a 01:07:41
while. So you've seen the evolution of our committees and. 01:07:46
And they come. We've come a long way. 01:07:53
The work they're doing to help. 01:07:57
Better our communities, pretty incredible. We've got all these committees that are kind of doing their own thing, that great 01:08:00
leadership thing, have great vision about how they can help the city and. 01:08:05
Keep it a great place to live and we're. 01:08:12
I just feel really fortunate that we just. 01:08:16
Grown so much and come so far. 01:08:19
The CD's failure, of course, is pretty incredible. So anyway. 01:08:21
Not very articulately stated, but I think needs to be said. 01:08:26
Anyhow. 01:08:31
Now debt service. 01:08:35
All right, this one is quick as well. Pitch 49 if you're following along in your budget documents. We are spending just over 01:08:38
$2,000,000 servicing debt. 01:08:44
That was in two issues. We did a refinancing in 2020, which we timed brilliantly and that was for this building and for the fire 01:08:51
station and then we had a 2022 bond divided in two parts between storm water and general fund roads and facilities. 01:09:03
The timing is a little different on each part of that, but Storm water is servicing about $700,000 of that $2,000,000 debt and the 01:09:17
remainder is coming general fund through the capital fund. 01:09:24
This building, I think that debt service continues through 2032. 01:09:32
But at what date? 01:09:39
Oh, it was great. 01:09:41
But it was amazing. 01:09:44
Our timing on the Oh my God, it's hackable, right? 01:09:47
A month later. 01:09:52
So that's that. 01:10:00
That's it, That's it. All right. 01:10:04
And that's another thing I said, the overall pursuit or size, you've been very conservative with that financing tool. The council 01:10:07
has used that responsibly and. 01:10:13
For things that have. 01:10:20
Something I'd like. 01:10:25
Just throw out there for the future though in terms of when we decide to bond. 01:10:26
In my view, I think we've done everything right. 01:10:34
I don't mean this as a criticism. 01:10:37
From how we got to where we are, because I think we actually did quite brilliantly when we found. 01:10:39
The situation we're trying to accomplish. 01:10:45
However. 01:10:48
In future, I think our bonding efforts should be towards. 01:10:50
Longer term assets. 01:10:55
Versus stormwater which have a regular annual maintenance component, which should be part of an annual budget, not something you 01:10:57
build up and then have to do a tax increase in bond against to maintain roads and storm water. I mean, we've, we've left it, it 01:11:03
had grown with such great deferred maintenance. 01:11:10
That's the correct number for it that we had to take that direction and it was a good time to do it and we were very fortunate to 01:11:17
have that all worked out. But in terms of. 01:11:21
Future bonding planning it should be. I mean, frankly, we should be bonding for this piece. 01:11:26
And for the part piece and not for the streets and stormwater piece. But given how things worked out and the priority of the 01:11:33
streets of stormwater needed to come first. 01:11:38
But then we've built up other funds. 01:11:43
A lot with federal grants and such, we're kind of making out fairly even on that so that we can pay cash for the most part for 01:11:46
this and and maybe the park fees, but those are the long-term assets. So those are the ones that really qualify for bonding and we 01:11:51
should try to make sure our annual budgeting. 01:11:56
Keeps up with the regular maintenance of streets and stormwater so we don't in the future ever have to bond the property tax 01:12:03
increase in order to bond to deal with regular making stuff. 01:12:09
Yeah, I think that is completely fair. 01:12:15
Particularly on the general fund side, on the stormwater side. 01:12:19
So much of what we're doing is really because. 01:12:23
Right now, but on the general fund piece, I hear you in terms of principle you bond for a long-term assets, irregular long-term 01:12:29
assets and you don't. 01:12:34
And it's a beautiful tool for that because that way you know the set service and the payment of that overtime or the use of that 01:12:40
of this capital. 01:12:44
Assets, I think that's right. That's the point. And if there is generational equity? 01:12:49
It'd be interesting to have Jared of all that we bonded before. I'd be curious to know what percentage that did go to more 01:12:58
recursive native type work versus. 01:13:02
So we can definitely look at that, I would say on the general fund side, which was the $8 million. 01:13:11
We're close to 6 1/2. 01:13:17
Almost seven that it's that had we been more properly repairing our roads over a period of time. 01:13:20
That we probably could have avoided on the storm water side, the $10 million side, most of that actually gives any structure that 01:13:28
makes sense. Yeah. 01:13:33
Substantially paving. 01:13:39
Well, you know, we talked about this a little bit. 01:13:48
I want to throw this out there but. 01:13:54
If you don't want to get into a big discussion about it, but we should be thinking about it, I know. 01:13:56
Somebody brought up that there may be a possibility to. 01:14:02
Talk about. 01:14:06
Purchase of the Spring Lane site. 01:14:08
You know. 01:14:13
I'm not a big fan of the District land banking those properties anyway, but also don't want to have to come out of pocket buy it. 01:14:14
But now we've got this issue of, well, it's going to be difficult for us to. 01:14:20
Go get grant funding based on the fact that releasing the property of owning it. 01:14:28
And there may be a benefit there and that may be. 01:14:33
Where we're starting to, and I'm just saying this to think about between now and say July, right and maybe we can. 01:14:38
We can. 01:14:45
I think we should look into it and see because. 01:14:49
I mean, that may be a project where we're looking at our budgeting now for City Home Park. 01:14:54
Where we might want to consider looking at a bonding opportunity to own the park and then only improvements and then because I 01:14:59
think we would have high likelihood. 01:15:04
Of receiving. 01:15:09
Grant awards for that park through various pots down the road. 01:15:12
So anyway, I think between now and then maybe we can. 01:15:17
I don't know if there's somebody at the district to see if that is a possibility. My only thought is. 01:15:20
You know you got. 01:15:24
On your promise not to make it a Walmart because that was their problem with the grand. 01:15:26
Oh, yes, I would love if you look at the lariation or sports or softball complex or whatever, I mean, I don't know there's 01:15:32
somebody to do that. But on something like this, we've got enough people in holiday. It'd be interesting to put some dealers out 01:15:37
for some who have some substantial foundations or things like that, that might be interested in it, especially with land 01:15:43
acquisition kind of a thing. 01:15:48
Yeah, even if the city. 01:15:57
You know, because I think. 01:15:59
I don't want to get into it too much because I don't want to spend a lot of time if it's like a non starter with the district, but 01:16:01
if there is some appetite to discuss it, I think we should. 01:16:06
What? That door has not been widely opened at all. I felt like there was a little more of a crack in the last discussion we had. 01:16:13
But where I where it was like. 01:16:24
The surplus. 01:16:29
Okay. 01:16:32
UPD. 01:16:36
The budget has been waiting for SO. 01:16:39
You know, let me just say with DPD. 01:16:42
Good work that she gets into budgeting. This has been a. 01:16:45
Brutal year. 01:16:50
And I don't think that's I don't think that's the wrong word either. 01:16:52
Top with this 4 separation with the sheriff, there's been a lot of contractual integral that have been have been worked through. 01:16:57
Really, really hard. 01:17:07
Budget decisions that have been made mostly by members of the taxing districts, the Salt Lake Valley Law Enforcement Service Area, 01:17:10
Silvisa. 01:17:14
And their negotiations with the county. 01:17:19
And. 01:17:22
Delayed decision making I think that has caused. 01:17:25
All this stuff to now just start being done right now with a July 1st termination day. 01:17:28
It's been a tough year and you know, so Chief, you know, hats off to you for your leadership and holding it together. I know it's 01:17:34
been really difficult, but it looks like. 01:17:38
We're at the finish line with it. It's going to happen. We're going to make this separation. 01:17:43
We've got a lot of. 01:17:49
Pardon the internal shared services components embedded inside districts we have. 01:17:51
Two here you'll see some, I mean if you want to go up door, you can see those officer. 01:17:57
But it looks like we're going to get it done and then we can just focus on UPD this next year and, and a lot of the rumors will 01:18:04
stop circulating and we'll have hopefully some stability and. 01:18:09
Be able to focus on placing our communities and not. 01:18:16
Politics and. 01:18:19
You know, logistics of how we separate and everything goes along with it. 01:18:21
Anyway, that was a perfect intro. Thank you. There's been a lot of great work by a lot of people that have gone into this, you 01:18:26
know? 01:18:30
With the Sheriff's Office separation, we overall will be decreasing by about 18% of our members, total members. This includes 01:19:09
foreign civilian from 416 to between 339 and 335. We'll talk about that in just a minute. But this budget over includes an overall 01:19:17
UPD wide increase in every community is a little bit different. We'll show you the breakdown in just a second, but an overall 01:19:24
increase of 5.58% that includes a 3% COLA to each UPD member, sworn civilian, everybody across the board. 01:19:31
A 1% increase to the Utah Retirement System for sworn members, a 1% decrease for civilian members and then a 9.7% increase in our 01:19:39
health insurance and that is an 8020% split. So 80% of the organization, 20% cost of the members. One of the other things that we 01:19:45
changed this year for each precinct was the way we. 01:19:52
Budget benefits and benefits and wages for each member. So it's going to be an actual number versus in the past we did it on 01:20:00
average. Generally we budgeted the 50% of each member because you might have a junior member or a senior member in your precinct. 01:20:05
But now we're going to start budgeting at their actual cost versus the averages. And then there was a discussion early on about 01:20:10
shared services formula and that's remaining the same at the 70, 2010 split, which we'll talk about what that exactly means in 01:20:16
just a minute. 01:20:21
Go on to the next one. You're right there. Thank you. So with this, this, you guys have seen this before a couple of times. What 01:20:27
chief measures been up here? This is where the organization is at right now as far as the organizational chart. We'll talk a 01:20:33
little bit more about this column right here, which is the Brighton and Holiday combination. 01:20:40
Moving forward, the one thing to know it shows it will be at 270 sworn members. It doesn't include some discussed changes in the 01:20:47
Salt Lake Valley Law Enforcement Service area had just come about in the last month or so. 01:20:53
So with on to this next slide where we will, this is where current UPD staffing as you can see that we're currently sworn members, 01:21:01
327, 1/2 members, civilian 84 members for a total of 416 with our part time members. The restructured vision moving forward was to 01:21:09
move down to 270. This includes moving 56 members out of the Unified Police Department to the new Law Enforcement Bureau for the 01:21:17
Sunland County Sheriff's Office that includes the sheriff's statutory obligations and county wide services. 01:21:25
And that ended up moving us down to 270. Sworn that we would have 68 civilian members. 01:21:33
Due to some additional cuts that slow visa made within within our communities in in that service district because of some because 01:21:39
also when there is Salt Lake County is part of that. They had some asks from Slavis as well to get to law enforcement Bureau of 01:21:45
the Sheriff's Office up and running. 01:21:51
That is, there's some discussion about an additional 6 cuts that could drop us to 264. There's still some ongoing work on that to 01:21:57
see if that where that will stay, but that could be where we end up at the worst case scenario. So the maximum decrease we would 01:22:03
see is 63 1/2 sworn members to a minimum decrease of 57 1/2. 01:22:09
Overall, as an organization now specifically to the holiday precinct. 01:22:17
With that, we made 1-2 cuts to the precinct, which are two, four members. We have a fraud detective and a domestic violence 01:22:22
detective that is getting moved to a shared services unit that we talked about before we had the shared services that are used by 01:22:29
all of the partners. We built a new domestic violence fraud shared service unit. So those two members, those two allocations were 01:22:37
cut and that dropped us to a total of sworn members to 30.62 and and we'll talk about that a little bit more as well. 01:22:45
But that's 29.02 sworn members and then 1.6 civilian members. And as you can see here, and part of the reason why this cut happens 01:22:53
is you'll see with the addition of bright into the holiday precinct. Now, like for example, my position holiday is paying for 01:23:01
point and those behind that little thing, but it's .8% of eight of my salary and then brightness covering 20%. So 80% here, 20% 01:23:09
there. That 8020 split is with the Lieutenant, the office coordinator, Kristen, as you all know, our victim advocate. 01:23:17
And here in holiday, we'll have two units, one will be the fraud and domestic violence unit and then also our internal affairs 01:24:43
unit will be here in holiday, right here in Precinct. So you'll see more officers that are here and available to help on a daily 01:24:47
basis. 01:24:51
And can I just mention, I mean, I think we've talked about this before, but our priority holidays priority was really to preserve 01:24:57
that control function. 01:25:02
Sent through this. 01:25:07
That seemed to be reflective priorities of the Council and the New York. 01:25:11
I appreciate you Brandon. That's and that's super important to have those that patrol function is what is our day-to-day officers 01:25:16
on the street and have three officers per shift. 01:25:21
Covering 24 hours around the clock. 01:25:26
So thank you. So you have enough space to add those? 01:25:29
Much. 01:25:33
I'm betting everybody. 01:25:37
Well, and as they lost two of them and then we. 01:25:40
So that increase the only gas here? 01:26:13
So that will add an additional. 01:26:15
About 14. 01:26:20
Additional people, do you have her? 01:26:22
Yeah, we're made work, Yeah. 01:26:25
A bunk bed, bunk desks. It's it's going to be yeah, it is going to be a little tight, but we're making it work. Yeah, it'll work 01:26:27
great. So. 01:26:32
We're all friends here so this is a long term though to. 01:26:38
The headquarter at some point. 01:26:44
And that's one of the things just. 01:26:46
At a high level discussion right now for the next. 01:26:48
We're working with the county on our property and evidence building a special operations, but we are we actually have a team 01:26:52
that's out actively looking for a new headquarters head building that can house all of these individuals. But moving them out to 01:26:58
the precinct right now with this split is is the best option so that we can actually have some time to do it right, get the right 01:27:04
buildings. We're not having to do several different move reserve. 01:27:09
You know, a couple of moves, hopefully, hopefully we'll just be one time to be able to do that, right? How many acres do you need 01:27:16
and would it be adjacent to a park? 01:27:20
Any other questions on that piece? 01:27:32
Is 11.64. 01:28:42
It is where that's at right now for holiday. 01:28:45
So moving on to the next budget, the tentative budget overall, so you can see the grand numbers for fiscal year 2425 is $63.96 01:28:48
million. The city, when I say the city share of that, that's Mill Creek Holiday and Midvale, their share is the 37.82 million, 01:28:56
which equates to 59.13% of the overall budget. And then slow visa share, which is Kern's, Magna, Copperton, Immigration, Brighton 01:29:04
White City, their share is 40.86% of that. 01:29:12
The overall increase overall is 3 point, basically $3.38 million overall this year. That includes some of these reorganizational 01:29:20
costs for the economy to scale that were lost with the Sheriff's Office meeting. 01:29:26
UPD Board was to not go over 7% and the overall combined. 01:30:06
Was 5.58% overall for the for this budget year. 01:30:12
So you can see now here's the breakdown of each of the different communities and the overall costs and where the 10.43% comes for 01:30:17
holiday, obviously that's the second column there at the top. The 11.64 is the shared services formula cost going into it. So the 01:30:25
total precinct costs for this year is $5,143,000. 01:30:32
Which is just a little bit less than it was the previous year and a lot of that plays into. 01:30:41
We change salaries and benefit costs and how that's budgeted. We also have the precinct revenues, in case you're wondering, 01:30:47
$135,000 that comes into is a reimbursement from Granite School District for all of our Sros that we have in the schools. And then 01:30:54
we get down to the shared services piece. This year's cost for shared services is. 01:31:01
To $3,000,000, Sorry. 01:31:10
Which is about a $926,000 difference from last year. 01:31:13
With those differences for a total cost of holiday is $7.9 million, this year's cost which is about $750,000 more, that's at 10% 01:31:19
increase. 01:31:24
Questions on that part? 01:31:33
You want me to say something? 01:31:35
I mean, just very quickly I was asking Gene about this because let me she presented the budget that didn't match what was in our 01:31:37
budget, which is right. What I'm looking at is 7.662 and so then Gina basically. 01:31:46
We're going to take $100,000 out of, we have a separate precinct fund balance, OK, money that we budget, that we pay up, that we 01:31:56
don't spend, we keep that in fund balance. And so we're going to take $100,000 out of that fund balance. Then our portion of the 01:32:03
bailiff allocation is also got to come out of there. So it's actually 7.662, which is probably pretty close when you back out, you 01:32:10
know, 7.811 and then. 01:32:17
It's pretty close, but anyway, she will look at that and this number will the 7.662 number will likely change just a little bit 01:32:25
for the final budget that we'll vote next week, but this doesn't. 01:32:31
Match that and that's why if that makes any sense and that fund balance has not been taken out of this yet either and that will 01:32:38
come into the board meeting on the 20th there. 01:32:43
That presenters that you could have some. 01:32:49
Cost savings regarding no longer. 01:32:54
Being in that building, right, I presume there is some rental you had to pay the sheriff because it was there who right. And now 01:32:57
you're spreading out. So I'm presuming somewhere and all that there's there's a realization of cost saving. Yeah, that equates to 01:33:03
a few $100,000 as well. I don't remember the exact cost right off the top of my head, but it's a few $100,000 for that. 01:33:10
That savings is coming in play. 01:33:16
And that's probably already included in that $926,000 increase. 01:33:22
So is that the savings? 01:33:29
So shared services. 01:33:35
Is it pretty free? This How big is icon people? 01:33:37
Right off the top of my head. 01:33:43
It's if. 01:33:49
Technical services, and this is a substantial chunk of. 01:34:21
Of staff. 01:34:27
So. 01:34:30
Looking at that number, the total cost? 01:34:33
Of 64,000,000 essentially. 01:34:38
I'm looking at total cost total in the right column, right? 01:34:40
But the last, the last slide ever budgeted 69 million or did I get that wrong? 01:34:45
Never mind. Never mind. Sorry, sorry. 01:34:52
Keep moving. 01:34:56
Those we kept all the same for this year. 01:35:34
And then that gives you a total breakdown of what the tentative budget breakdown is for. Just the precinct itself is the 5.1. 01:35:40
Any questions? 01:35:53
Excellent. 01:35:58
No, thank you. No, seriously, we really appreciate all of your support. The mayor's time on the EP board had a lot of conversation 01:36:02
between another staff behind the scenes to really get a lot of this work done. And we really couldn't do it without the teamwork 01:36:08
of you guys and all of our other partners to really bring us together and and once. 01:36:14
I really appreciate the mayor's comments to begin with, because after July 1st we can get back to really working on the important 01:36:21
piece of this and get through this reorganization and get back to, you know, what we're really here to do. 01:36:28
What do you have to do? No, thank you. An honor. 01:36:37
Okay. 01:36:44
Which one's first? I can't remember. 01:36:48
Can you spend just a moment on potential budget changes? Sure. Oh yeah. 01:36:51
So there are just a couple of changes that I would like to highlight and get some direction from the Council before next week's 01:37:17
adoption. When I mentioned in the beginning, which is. 01:37:24
Regarding property tax, it looks like. 01:37:33
New growth is going to come in higher than I had estimated in the budget. I included new growth of about $42,000, which is where 01:37:37
we are. 01:37:42
Consistently. 01:37:47
It looks like it may range anywhere from 70,000 to 200,000 and we'll see, but I wanted direction from the council on how to work 01:37:50
how you want that reflected if new group is higher than anticipated. 01:37:58
So. 01:38:06
We could stick with a budget that includes property tax at that same tentative budget number, which would mean the overall 01:38:09
increase to the certified tax rate could potentially be lower. And that might be 14.5% or that might be thirteen percent, 01:38:18
depending on what that new growth number is. Or I could keep the 15% increase consistent and then just reflect whatever new growth 01:38:26
is, which would mean that property tax number would be higher. 01:38:35
So I'm looking for guidance from the Council and I'd like to see that reflected. 01:38:44
Revenues higher that would end up. 01:38:49
It would, yeah. 01:38:53
We just talked about 15 and we're preparing. 01:38:56
Citizenry with 15. 01:39:00
We've got monster projects coming up between the building park. 01:39:03
Drive all those things that. 01:39:09
Are going to require a multi year effort in building fund so I. 01:39:11
Well, if that can mean that we can. 01:39:25
Wait, you know, four years instead of three. You know, I mean that you can stretch out longer the time between the next time that 01:39:27
we have to do this and that. 01:39:31
I think that's benefits too are there. 01:39:36
Are there things, I know I brought this up before, but and I know we're stalled a little bit on, we're probably pushing another 01:39:40
year on City Hall in that way to see how this. 01:39:45
This earmark goes but. 01:39:50
Are there places you're comfortable spending money in City Hall that you think is not a waste of money at all? 01:39:52
That is a good question I do not have the answer for. I would be an advocate for continuing to invest and not just let things. 01:40:01
Go waiting if there are bathrooms with every bottle or if there's you know, whatever it is or. 01:40:10
Maybe. Would anybody be in favor of if that would be an option? 01:40:17
I guess you just slide it unbalanced, or you could put it into rugs too. 01:40:23
We could just increase whatever line item is for Rd. projects and try to get a little keep up. 01:40:27
Yeah, given what I was talking about every year with trying not to have that bond. 01:40:33
Yeah, building a regular predictable number for. 01:40:37
The things we don't want. 01:40:42
Yeah, I think we're. I think we're. 01:40:44
313.8 or 15 doesn't make any difference. We're already. 01:40:47
Already set it up, Let's go forward with it. Hopefully that'll get us out another. 01:40:51
You know, four years maybe, or five years. 01:40:57
But with that. 01:41:00
Pretty healthy fund balance. I just said if we what you're saying is that we generate more revenue where you want us to put where 01:41:03
do you want me to put it right. So yeah. And really my question here was for this line item was do you want do you want to stay at 01:41:09
15% or do you want me to lower it if I could and what I'm hearing is and you want me to stay at 15% and then I like the idea of 01:41:16
roads if we get more money, but if we get if we go from 40,000 in the budget, whatever that was and we a new growth is 200, I'd be 01:41:22
an advocate of. 01:41:29
You know, put it here. 01:41:36
So I think that was my only general fund question, although as the mayor mentioned, we may see depending there, there will be a 01:41:42
board meeting for UPD next Wednesday. So we might see a new number there and if we did that budget number, maybe adjust it. That's 01:41:50
really all I had in the general fund unless anyone else. 01:41:57
Has anything? 01:42:06
So in the Arts Fund, Megan mentioned the use of the Arts Fund fund balance for a public art consultant and additional public art. 01:42:09
Is the council supportive of that? 01:42:15
Yes. 01:42:22
How much so? I think it was 186. 01:42:25
Today. 01:42:31
So. 01:42:33
So I'll make that correction. Will that change for next week? 01:42:41
In the capital projects fund, I have a couple of suggestions. So the mayor had asked about a line item for City Hall improvements 01:42:47
that we had it for. We would continue from this year at 4:07. 01:42:54
We've spent about 150,000 this year. 01:43:02
And I I. 01:43:08
Did not have detail to support the $407,000 so would recommend reducing that to 150,000, although it sounds like your direction 01:43:10
there is. 01:43:16
To reexamine whether there are things we could do in the interim. 01:43:22
Yeah, I mean, I think. 01:43:27
I don't want to waste money. I don't want to put money in the City Hall and then tap and then go forward with the renovation, 01:43:29
which we will, and then have a fee. 01:43:34
Money down a rat hole. But if there's things, if there are things we can do based on the study that we know is not wasted money 01:43:38
and I'm just using bathrooms. An example, I don't know if that's it. I mean the obvious, the low hanging fruit is going to be on 01:43:45
the other side of the door because if he's got all kinds of expansion precinct, but that would be in our budget or in his budget. 01:43:52
We take care of that on our budget, but. 01:44:00
Yeah. Well, we just remodeled over there and my recollection is they don't have much seismic over there. 01:44:03
So. 01:44:11
In terms of other remodeling costs though? 01:44:14
They've got. 01:44:17
I'm going to talk about size bag. We're not talking about size pack, we're talking about other stuff. Yeah, yeah. What? Most 01:44:18
everything on this side be pretty much gutted though. Understood. Yeah, yeah. If that's the case then. 01:44:24
Then yeah, I don't want to spend any money on it. I just thought that there were places that we thought we could. 01:44:31
That would be helpful that I would be for that, but I would have to leave that to you guys and we can take a look at it. I mean, 01:44:39
one thing I'm thinking of is the condenser and so that might be something we could do and it wouldn't be compromised by the 01:44:46
building. But I'll take a look at that and then come back with an. 01:44:52
A new recommendation next week. 01:45:00
We talked for our accessibility surfaces. We talked about the possibility of doing both surfaces, both Knudsen and. 01:45:04
The City Park accessibility resurfacing at the same time would save some money doing it that way. So my $30,000 in the tentative 01:45:16
budget was actually a little low. If we do both at the same time, I think we would should take that number to 75. 01:45:25
And the council, when we talked about it, was supportive of that. If you're still supportive, I'll add $45,000 to that one. 01:45:35
So this synchronizes someone from a maintenance perspective. 01:45:44
And then we had $30,000 for bus shelters. 01:45:49
I think they're going to be more expensive. I think 30,000 would give us one and if we want to do 2, I think we should take that 01:45:55
amount to 15,000. 01:46:00
And mayor, I noticed, was a. 01:46:08
Favorite of yours? 01:46:12
I'm not loving it so much. Now. One of the questions. 01:46:15
Relevant, but is it strictly as far as our commitment on those RDA funds, is it strictly too moderate? What was it moderate low 01:46:22
income housing? Or are there other things like public infrastructure, you know, public transportation infrastructure, things like 01:46:28
that, that that money could be where we have to find a home for that money within a certain time, right? Yeah, so 20% of it. 01:46:34
Is dedicated to affordable housing from the village and that's the one that's really generating considerable interest. 01:46:43
We do have a debt to the city that is due first before we can spend much of that money and so we we haven't really spent increment 01:46:50
knowing that we have to repay that loan. 01:46:58
So, and that is something we keep talking about, looking at more closely and keeps getting pushed out on the list now getting 01:47:09
closer and closer, getting closer and closer. 01:47:14
Yeah, but they're supposed to write it off. I think that's right. So. 01:47:21
I think if that's something that council is interested in doing, we should probably I, I don't think I'd be able to get to that by 01:47:28
next week. There is a more comprehensive book and it's something I really like Christian to better understand as well. So that's 01:47:33
something. 01:47:38
I think we could look at maybe in the first quarter of next year. 01:47:44
So, Mayor, it sounds like bus shelters. Well, leave it 30 Yeah, I. 01:47:51
I mean, I just thought it would be nice to try a couple of bus shelters as a test to see if they were helpful. And then 01:47:57
subsequently we've had this meeting at Mill Creek and they were talking about sounded like there was a lot of interest on to try 01:48:04
to maybe join our efforts on two the 220 route. 01:48:11
And so I almost rather see if there's an opportunity to go find some matching funding or funding teaming up with those cities, 01:48:18
but. 01:48:23
If it's $50,000 a shelter. 01:48:29
I think it's 30 ish. 01:48:34
That's a highland round UTA route that goes up to the EU, which there seems to be a lot of interest and maybe. 01:48:39
I mean, I wonder if there's any appetite to work with them and with UTA to see if we could? 01:48:45
Partner with doing some shelters along there and. 01:48:50
Should have seen it as helpful. 01:48:54
But I. 01:48:57
I'm not crazy about spending $50,000 to pop one shelter in some place because they think it will end up. I'm not sure. 01:48:59
We're going to get what we want. 01:49:08
I was 50 for 2:30 for 1:50. 01:49:11
But if you're not comfortable with it, we can wait. I think I'm not. 01:49:19
Can't remember what the location one was about the liquor store, liquor store and I think in fact I think we have new data today 01:49:25
and I don't. 01:49:30
We could either do the other side of marine holiday, so on the other side of. 01:49:36
East of Highlands or whatever. 01:49:43
Or the other site where I think we had a lot of. 01:49:47
A lot of activity was. 01:49:54
Walker and Highlands. 01:49:57
But John, I don't know if you had a chance to look at the data. 01:49:58
The top three on Highland Drive as. 01:50:02
Separate recruits in debt from UTA on weekday and weekend in April, which is the most recent. 01:50:04
The two sites across from each other at cruisers and. 01:50:15
Cruisers in Chihuahua restaurant. 01:50:22
That's how you get there and get home. 01:50:27
Riot at Big O. 01:50:34
I mean, do you think there's? 01:51:01
Building a shelf, I mean, the thought is put a shelter into kind of as a test to see if it's helpful, but I don't want to spend 01:51:05
that kind of money if we're not confident it's going to be what if we could just if you carry has something where they they have 01:51:09
kind of a threshold. 01:51:14
Right counsel whatever at a given station, or they even. 01:51:20
Worthwhile or remember? 01:51:24
They have those shelters, like all the way down. 01:51:29
And a lot of those are partnered where the city has participated. 01:51:34
So let me do a little more due diligence on that. 01:51:45
So I will not make that change. 01:51:49
In terms of the stormwater fund, I made an error in how I was reflecting our the bond that we issued in 22 and it showed it as 01:51:53
bond proceeds and we really need to show it as the use of fund balance. It's the same money, it's just how we reflect it in the 01:51:59
budget. 01:52:05
And then in the grants fund, I had added $20,000 on the revenue side and that needs to to come out and be $675,000 and spent 01:52:13
$695,000. 01:52:20
And then the grantable. 01:52:28
Those are just changes that are in this budget right here that so there are changes to the tentative budget. 01:52:30
I was just going to We talked in the past about the. 01:52:46
Test cases. 01:52:50
You're talking about test casing these bus shelters. We already have a test case going on with the air escaping of the small 01:52:51
things. 01:52:55
The Islands. 01:53:00
Is that worth expanding? Is that a successful project? Failed project? What do we want to do with those items? 01:53:02
I would ask you how what your perception is? Do you think it is? 01:53:08
Attractive what you were envisioning when you funded that? 01:53:15
Maybe a close up she only noticed the negative but I don't remember it. 01:53:21
Too long ago passed the one down on 60. 01:53:26
I don't think that was a zero skating issue. 01:53:31
Yeah. 01:53:35
Yeah, part of that, like not in school, in that order, is just awful. It's just awful. But I don't know how to get people to. 01:53:46
You know, we're having this big problem now with people are converting to 0 state. 01:53:57
Or however you say. 01:54:02
They need to spell it. 01:54:06
But then. 01:54:10
Don't take care of it. They put rocks in and. 01:54:11
It looks terrible. It's like, aren't those islands actually looking pretty good right now? Somebody went in and cleaned them up, 01:54:17
but they need to be constantly maintained. 01:54:21
You know what what happens is you. 01:54:27
You have grass and you take the grass that then you think, well, we don't have to mow it, maintain it anymore and then. 01:54:30
All of a sudden weeds coming up through the and it looks worse. 01:54:37
So as long as they're maintained, I think they're fine. Sure. 01:54:40
I think the bigger question is are we using less water on those islands? I hope so. 01:54:45
And I believe we are. I can't quantify. Yeah, I'm not sure you could either. I'm not even sure we have meters. 01:54:50
I think if you don't see, sprinklers sprang out into the street all the time. 01:54:58
That's what was happening. We got calls from the good Colonel. 01:55:04
We were spraying like a hose out in the street, you know, for a couple of days. 01:55:09
So from a work. 01:55:16
Workflow standpoint, I don't have given everything else that is on our public services plate right now. I don't know that I would 01:55:20
want to take on another project like that. That's kind of small dollar because we do have a lot trying to get our bond proceeds 01:55:28
spent this year. Maybe that's something we could look at for next year. 01:55:35
Great. 01:55:44
And he's not having a low dose every week, so. 01:55:47
But you do have to commit labor to it. 01:55:51
Hopefully not, but we still have to commit to maintaining it. 01:55:55
All right. Thank you. 01:56:02
Historic preservation ordinance. 01:56:10
Hi, he's going to jump in and help you out here, right Ty? 01:56:14
So we have that in the packet. 01:56:21
My kind of take on it. 01:56:43
I think like the Adu ordinance, we've been working through this and getting staff directed to kind of go through and clean it up. 01:56:47
But my, my. 01:56:52
Perspective is that it's kind of. 01:56:59
State that we ask staff to place it into. 01:57:02
In terms of the changes we made about. 01:57:06
Noticing for demolition? 01:57:09
And those sorts of things and I might be able to shorten up this conversation with the council's OK with it. I did talked about it 01:57:12
is so we've got got it in. We've got all the changes in place. I think I don't think there's. 01:57:19
Is that anywhere the Council is is. 01:57:26
And OK with what we have, I think that the things we decided last time. 01:57:29
Leans toward. 01:57:34
There's a choice to have a public hearing process versus not to try to be transparent and have a public hearing cost anyway. 01:57:36
Maybe another? 01:57:43
In the next council meeting sort of thing. 01:57:45
And also with getting opportunity for the Circle Commission to weigh in more efficiently. 01:57:48
Yeah, I think we ended up in those places as I recall. Yeah. And I think that's where we end up with the ordinance is, you know, 01:57:53
they'll just be one. I think the land use piece wasn't a place that we were. 01:58:00
We were willing to give up any land use authority. As elected officials, I think that's our responsibility and that's what's in 01:58:08
the ordinance. 01:58:11
But we've also got the article in the journal that I wrote and heard that I didn't write. I read. 01:58:15
About, you know, ties quoted in it. We've got some of our historical Commission members and so I would be interested based on what 01:58:23
we have and part of what we were saying was. 01:58:28
We don't necessarily want to codify it, but we need to do a better job of including members of this historical Commission in the 01:58:34
decision making process. Maybe it's appropriate and Tyson said this is that we take it down and you can meet with a couple of the 01:58:41
members, see where they have issues. I think Ty's done a good deal for the council. 01:58:48
What we? 01:58:56
What we can and can't do and see what their issues are with it and. 01:58:58
And you know, there's tweaks we can make. We're happy to take that into account because I don't think there's any Russian voting 01:59:02
this reserve a timeline. I mean, I think we'd like to get done, but. 01:59:08
Yeah, no, that'd be great. I'll be speaking. We've got a historical commissions meeting this Tuesday. So I was thinking some of 01:59:15
those numbers and if we could just maybe postpone the vote on this until I've got, I've had a chance to talk to you. Just make 01:59:22
sure there's no other really material and things that at least concerned me that I think were more. 01:59:30
Great. 01:59:37
I didn't have one questions on if you can answer this but is that your through the code? It's just to be clear 30 days stay. 01:59:41
That's like the Max that it would be right. So if if somebody goes on mostly it's going to be sensitive to not burdening. 01:59:50
Those who have the. 01:59:58
The designation. 02:00:01
More than is necessary. So if we. 02:00:02
Notice it? 02:00:05
The Historic Commission or something from the historic Commission, whoever goes in does not condition that correctly that. 02:00:07
As I. 02:00:28
Yeah. 02:00:32
Yeah, yeah, I went through it. It looked like. 02:00:35
Done a pretty good job of including all the issues we had with it we were trying to address. 02:00:38
Now. 02:00:44
Based on where the ordinance is right now and what members of the Commission, they think that, you know, we're happy to take their 02:00:45
input and. 02:00:49
Like I said, I think you could have pretty good feeling what the Council. 02:00:54
You know, yes. 02:00:59
And bring it back to us in work session next week and we can take a look at it and. 02:01:02
May be posted per vote in July or August, but I just don't see what the big rush is if we. 02:01:08
You know, we've made our changes. Here's what we take the ordinance on look like. What are your issues with it? 02:01:13
That's great. 02:01:19
You OK with that? 02:01:23
The only suggestion I make is that we're getting a bunch of new, not a bunch of we're getting new commissioners. 02:01:25
And should they be a part of that conversation, that's up to you. 02:01:33
Well, I think, yeah, maybe. Or maybe those that are, yeah, well, we'll see how. 02:01:37
It's important members. 02:01:45
Nothing has to say in the way that it is too right. We can always modify our amend or whatever if needed, right? And so I think 02:01:47
this is our best. First, there's something that changed on the road. 02:01:53
But. 02:02:02
You have a copy of kind of all the changes we've made. 02:02:04
We'd love to get trained, but now the one question I did have, I forgot to ask, was we've deleted those four homes from the 02:02:10
ordinance. 02:02:14
Was the is that the way we're going to do it, then come back and make changes that they apply or are we going to reach out and see 02:02:18
if they wanted to be included? I mail those property owners notice the content. 02:02:24
Yeah. I mean, I would if they want to be in, if they want to be in the ordinance, I'd rather have them in the ordinance rather 02:02:38
than have to come back and have them apply and come to the council and. 02:02:43
Would it be inappropriate necessity from the sort of commercial integrated? 02:02:48
Reach out to verbally. 02:02:52
I'd rather have in it when we vote it than have to do that go back to a process after that. 02:02:57
So is Council good with that? 02:03:04
OK. 02:03:07
All right, we're going to move on from that one, then go to the. 02:03:09
The 80 you think more we talk about, the more I get confused. 02:03:18
You might want to come up to this one. 02:03:24
I've gone round and round on this one and had a lot of input. I think they've done a really good job of. 02:03:29
Make sure make matrix scene. 02:03:37
What our issues were and what changes have been made, I'll let. I'll let. 02:03:41
Carry all policies, have pretty good hands. 02:03:47
Well, I think I do one minute now. 02:03:52
So going through just the click summary changes I think is a good starting point. They're bulleted in the addendum and. 02:03:56
We made a slight modification on. 02:04:06
This first point with compliance with state code clarification that Ades are permitted in all residential zones. What was 02:04:10
previously in there was it wasn't really clear. It made it sound like it had to be within a house. 02:04:19
So the changes on that. 02:04:28
The issue. 02:04:40
That state code piece is regarding internally accused. 02:04:43
It's. 02:04:48
Oh, it's just free, Yes, but only in detached structures that. 02:04:51
Reading that right, that means. 02:04:56
Inside a detached structure, so. 02:04:58
Yeah. And the change that we made in our code is that an accessory dwelling unit of any type can only be established on a parcel 02:05:02
with a single family detached structure. 02:05:09
Do you want to scroll to the draft text, Stephanie? 02:05:20
So existing ordinary construction of accessory dwelling units of any type may only be established on a parcel for the single 02:05:38
family tax structure, meaning it can't be in a duplex. 02:05:43
Right. So it can be in our two zone, yes. 02:05:49
With a single family, but not with another one with a new place. 02:05:53
Ideas. 02:05:58
OK. 02:06:05
Hey, we'll go through the ball ditching this really quick, but. 02:06:09
Reference to each of the lines of the code and expanded to clarified owner occupied. I think that was pretty standard. 02:06:16
Changes on that. 02:06:24
Parking requirements types parking standards per bedroom, so if you're adding on to the house. 02:06:27
Of either adding more bedrooms onto a house or adding an external Adu, you have parking requirements based off of your number of 02:06:34
address. 02:06:38
The part no special consideration for corner lots or double fronting lots and then compliant with block coverage Maxwells. 02:06:44
So those are all from the previous meeting and then on to the next page are adjustments as requested in the prior Council meeting. 02:06:52
We talked about. 02:07:01
Having no minimum lot size versus the 10,000 square foot minimum lot size. 02:07:03
In the presentation there's a map that shows different parcels that gives you a clear picture of what exactly that difference is 02:07:10
between. 02:07:13
On Watford, less than 2000. How many parcels that involves? 02:07:19
Compliance with setbacks shown in chart. 10 feet on lots up to 41,000 square feet. 02:07:24
We added the. 02:07:31
Additional language that if the primary structure has setbacks that are less than 10 feet. 02:07:34
Then the 80 would just have to be the setbacks for the primary structure. So if you have a lot that would require a side set back 02:07:41
of eight feet, then that would be the set back for your 8 feet. 02:07:47
I remember conversation you had earlier about the rezone. 02:07:55
And didn't we say that they couldn't do AD use because of the 10,000? 02:08:00
Lot size thing, but then that's not the case. 02:08:07
Here right, That would be if you want to maintain the 10,000. 02:08:10
That you wouldn't be able to. 02:08:15
Lock coverage. 02:08:20
Right. The restrictions would basically regulate that, so. 02:08:23
The reason we consider today is government of the current statute, so that will require the time. 02:08:30
OK, now I follow. 02:08:39
I have a question about so it's a property that's a buzz non residential use. So the letter that we received Mendehoe family and 02:08:43
her father came and spoke. 02:08:48
He was saying that the property abuts a canal so that I would think that would be non residential. But then I talked to you said 02:08:55
canal is. 02:08:58
Right. It's still in a residential zone. 02:09:03
Not necessarily a residential use. So that would be a determining factor in your language if you want it to be residential use. 02:09:06
Or non residential use. You can have reduced setbacks we talked about though. 02:09:16
That 10 foot set back. 02:09:24
I can't remember where we ended up, though there was the topic of. The primary concern was if you were going to be. 02:09:26
Putting something a little bit imposing. 02:09:34
On the other side of the fence from someone else's backyard. And we talked about what if on the other side of that fence is 02:09:36
essentially an accessory building, not necessarily a dwelling unit, but an accessory building. So you're not a garage or a shed 02:09:42
that then we talked about. 02:09:49
Some sort of exception language, but I don't remember where we ended up with that. Yeah, I'm not sure on that one either because 02:09:56
it's not necessarily A use anybody could build an accessory building. So it could be a little bit tricky to regulate, but also 02:10:02
that. But maybe that was part of the And let me back up because this is where I was talking to Rob earlier and I was getting 02:10:07
confused about. 02:10:13
That the context of what we're putting together with regard to. 02:10:19
Are we putting together? 02:10:26
These standards so that if they meet these standards they can be quickly pencil whipped by staff and off they go and do their PDU. 02:10:29
But. 02:10:38
There is another path. If they don't meet, check all the boxes. 02:10:40
That's when they can go to the Planning Commission for a, for exception or conditional use for something or. 02:10:45
That's one of the revisit the context of are we establishing hard and fast rules for everybody or are we establishing a minimum 02:10:53
standards required for staff approval? 02:10:57
Off you go, but there's still another path for these circumstances that maybe well, but this looks out over. 02:11:02
Not over a backyard and or this in this case looks over a canal property. And so we really aren't imposing on the neighbors, the 02:11:10
neighbors in a way that the standard rules have applied for quick staff. Right off you go for the situation. What's what's the 02:11:17
context for are we talking about minimum standards when we talk about hard and fast for everybody, right. And we were talking 02:11:24
about that last time with conditional uses and trying to avoid conditional uses. 02:11:31
So it's better to have standards in place so that you don't have to go and have the because it can be a little bit arbitrary, not. 02:11:39
I'm out of standard, certified everybody. 02:11:51
But to Paul's point, I think, I think it was tricky to regulate. But I'm wondering if if you are overlooking a canal or you're 02:11:53
overlooking somebody shed to me. 02:11:59
Or there's a big tree canopy in between where it's going to be in the neighbors. To me, those those. 02:12:06
Would be areas where I would be willing to. 02:12:14
Be more open to a less than 10 foot. 02:12:17
Yeah, I don't know if there's a way to like in this situation. 02:12:20
The canal property is not necessarily a property. It's not a parcel. 02:12:25
There's no development rights there. There's no expectation, there's no use that's associated with it. 02:12:29
So we would be looking at that scenario as a non residential. 02:12:34
So that. 02:12:38
Work for this. 02:12:41
And if we're looking at a quick question about that, isn't there a different set back requirement around water, however? 02:12:44
Yes. 02:12:53
Canals are protected within a distance of 20. 02:12:54
High watermark. 02:12:58
So depending where that canal channel lays right in that section, we'd still have to measure the 20 feet to make sure that's 02:12:59
protected. But we'd assume the fence line already takes care of that. But if not, then that's somebody else's problem. But that's 02:13:05
independent. But that's independent of this. That's completely separate ordinance and that one prevails. So even if you say, yes, 02:13:12
we can reduce the setbacks in the circumstances in terms of city requirements, but now that makes sense, but it's so hard to be 02:13:18
maintained. 02:13:24
But this specific example aside, though, I still think it merits. I mean, I hate the idea of not having some means of like of 02:13:30
addressing whatever the other unique cases are that we don't know. 02:13:36
We want to create some cookie cutter rules to unload some burden for the Planning Commission. If you meet these standards, off to 02:13:45
go. But since we aren't a cookie cutter community and cookie cutter lots we have a lot of weird lines and stuff, it seems like 02:13:50
there should be a path. 02:13:55
Alternative path if you don't meet the cookie cutter study. 02:14:01
Where reason prevails as opposed to the law. 02:14:05
If there's an existing. 02:14:11
Accessory structure and somebody wants to build an Adu next to it. Maybe you say, OK, if there's a structure there, then you get a 02:14:20
10% reduction in your set pack for two feet. Or it can be the same setback as would be required for an accessory building. So 02:14:26
instead of being 10 feet, instead it's four feet if there's already a building there. 02:14:33
And I don't. 02:14:41
They all should be treated exactly the same. 02:14:47
Right, that SQL protection for the grass to get a garage shed, right Standard should be similar so we're but but now we've 02:14:50
wandered into this area. If it's a dwelling unit, then you have a different standard, but then you create a situation where you. 02:14:58
Lose flexibility as a property. You lose flexibility with how you can use the structure. Some reason for that, but I mean you 02:15:06
still have to have. 02:15:12
You know, proper safety and has to be on a foundation versus lab and all that kind of stuff in terms of placement. 02:15:18
Is there really significant? 02:15:26
Privacy issue for an accessory building versus an accessory dwelling building. 02:15:29
Yeah, I do a lot of weird stuff in my garage that doesn't. 02:15:36
We're recording. 02:15:42
Take that offline. 02:15:47
So I mean. 02:15:51
If you're talking about impacting, especially if it's a pool house, like a three sided pool house is very popular type of 02:15:51
construction that's that's in the backyard. 02:15:55
That, with a barbecue and a TV, can be disruptive. 02:16:00
Sure. 02:16:07
Well. 02:16:11
That one over. 02:16:15
Yeah, so setbacks. 02:16:21
We'll put it on there. 02:16:24
New language to allow a 25 foot height specific only for 80 use and that's to encapsulate people who are doing like a detached 02:16:27
garage and want to build a unit on the top of it. Pitch roof. It's essentially that allowance. I just want to make sure I 02:16:35
understand. So we got rid of the restriction against second floor living or. 02:16:44
Bedrooms, we did get rid of that. OK. I just trying to remember. Yeah. So tied in with that, yeah. 02:16:53
And then? 02:16:59
Graduated height maintaining the same graduated height for accessory buildings, same structures, not bringing that down to six 02:17:00
feet as was originally. 02:17:04
So that the X1 renewable ground level only living space unless the structures within the set back for primary structure graduated 02:17:11
high standard. So it's just 8 feet. 02:17:16
Removal of restrictions around windows on the second level just that makes it really difficult to build a bedroom or have any. 02:17:23
That was pretty clear and the graduate takes care of 6. 02:17:33
And then? 02:17:41
Added some text that allows for the conversion of existing accessory buildings. 02:17:43
So the text was not included in the Planning Commission's recommendation. And Jonathan and I got together and thought about like 02:17:49
what kinds of standards we want to put in place as like required items to mitigate impacts that you have from these units that are 02:17:58
accessory inductors. So we have a few that are proposed in this language and there's. 02:18:06
A fee. We did an 8 foot fence height agreement between neighbors and Evergreen hedge, a masonry wall and then other means to 02:18:17
mitigate light, sound, smell or other businesses. So having specific items that an applicant would say, OK, I'm going to do this, 02:18:24
this and this and then we check that off on their site plan and then make sure it's installed. 02:18:31
So those are giving them standards that they have to adhere to, but then we can make sure that they are installed and those are an 02:18:39
accessory dwelling or accessory unit that they're converting to it. Yeah. And the same as the learning could be applied if you're 02:18:45
looking at reducing step backs from the 10 feet, say, OK, well let's have you have to pay for these venue items as mitigation. Oh, 02:18:52
I like that idea. Let's revisit then the set back for. 02:18:59
Accessory building versus dwelling. 02:19:06
Are we? 02:19:11
Are we indeed differentiating? 02:19:13
And this trash in the draft text as line 144 is where we have that set back charge. That's where I wondered. I think it was weird 02:19:16
about this. 02:19:21
I was worried about if someone tried to get around at first they build a non. 02:19:30
Just an accessory building. 02:19:37
With a closer set back and then convert it. 02:19:39
And that's just a way to get around it. So then you have an enforcement issue where a. 02:19:43
So then what's the point then of making those different? 02:19:48
Particularly, we're not really seeing. 02:19:51
Significant difference in terms of disruption or privacy issues, whether it's a growing unit or a non dwelling unit. So in the 02:19:53
original text that those numbers were slightly different. 02:19:59
They weren't as drastically different, they were maybe added I think. 02:20:04
25%, yeah. So you can see where they jumped. 02:20:10
What we recently originally thought about 25% increase was buffering landscaping. 02:20:15
Maybe the entranceway to the door? 02:20:23
Not necessarily just a larger set back, just for some. 02:20:28
Right on the issue of. 02:20:34
Step back. 02:20:37
Could we say that the standard is 10 feet? But if you. 02:20:40
Want to go closer? You do need to have some of those mitigating. 02:20:43
Features, whether it's effects or I don't know, I'm just. 02:20:48
Are there other any potential problems that I'm not thinking? Yeah, I think tying that into. 02:20:53
They could still go no closer than you know what the step back is that we hold for accessory buildings. It could start at 10 feet 02:20:59
so that if whatever. 02:21:04
Items they're applying then it would give them an extra level. 02:21:09
That's that exception with the primary structure. 02:21:17
OK, so that that middle column that starts with three feet, is that the accessory building? 02:21:24
Is either 25% that evidence at 10 feet minimum? 02:21:29
And that's where he decided that evolving to the bustling point that. 02:21:36
Whether it's a dwelling unit versus accessory, the difference is the accessory unit that we have. 02:21:43
I'm just just the accessory accessory. 02:21:50
Yeah, I mean the extra, the added height. 02:21:58
At the 10 feet makes sense. 02:22:02
If you're going to reduce the setbacks down closer, you probably want to stick closer. 02:22:04
So, so maybe maybe that hypertrophic introduces if they exercise that you know do come closer to. 02:22:09
Yeah. 02:22:17
Then you'll get the hike. I still got the graduated height. 02:22:21
That would be consistent too. 02:22:27
So if you go closer, you lose height and you have to provide. 02:22:30
Can I see that right in the details but. 02:22:45
Conceptually, I can kind of see the way it would work. 02:22:49
So that would be what kind of items do you want to have on that? What was the listing? 02:22:53
If we go to those, let's see something that's page 128, yeah. 02:22:59
There's not a lot you can mitigate. 02:23:11
That type of structure. 02:23:13
Yeah, solid walls, taller landscaping, making sure your lighting is not. 02:23:17
We could do like. 02:23:27
Soft closed doors. 02:23:29
They don't have stores that are slamming right next. 02:23:33
You know what? Yeah, I'm going to say yesterday. 02:23:36
I don't want to make a performance. 02:23:40
A pretty easy one, so. 02:23:44
The access point should, shouldn't. 02:23:49
Open it is required. 02:23:52
So it's not even going to be on that side, yeah. 02:23:55
Because it said. 02:23:59
It included windows, so you can't have a window. 02:24:03
Did we take that out? It's still in there. 02:24:07
1-10 you said? Yeah. 02:24:11
Doors, windows, patio, garage doors, etc. 02:24:15
Yeah, yeah. So I think, yeah. 02:24:22
So that would just be openable window. 02:24:25
Right, openable windows. So you can still have some windows, but but that means you can't have a bedroom. But that's not a 02:24:27
bedroom. 02:24:31
What do you think about this suggestion, Carrie John? 02:24:42
This in particular, well, just talking about maybe shortening the setbacks and allowing for more mitigation going back to the 02:24:47
original 25% thing, yeah. 02:24:52
The options I like. I didn't think about that before. 02:24:59
Like I mentioned before, protection for any type of structure, it's just going to turn. 02:25:03
Which is the pool house or the garage it's converted into? 02:25:10
Mother-in-law. Yeah. 02:25:16
Neighbor complaints. 02:25:18
Now we have to compete loudly. 02:25:21
So this does make first easier. 02:25:26
It would start us up in a better direction. 02:25:28
I know they've had like a couple of applications where they have built on the accessory building site and they were planning to 02:25:37
have a bedroom and other guests and so they have the space for it, but they can't use like on their plan that's designated as not 02:25:44
a dwelling capital unit. 02:25:51
So although it has all the facilities as such, it can be a habitable unit because it's not meeting the setbacks required for that 02:25:58
extra 25%. They can have a fridge and another which really do it anyways. 02:26:04
Yeah. 02:26:15
Play, that's what. 02:26:17
Well, yeah. 02:26:20
I'll get some other e-mail that. 02:26:25
I kind of like going back just till they graduated setbacks for a lot of sizes at 10 foot minimum. I just it's it's a good tool. 02:26:30
And of course that. 02:26:38
Practical standpoint, what does that mean for? 02:26:43
Does that affect his deal at all? I think it would make it. 02:26:48
Do it. 02:26:53
Right. I heard you correctly if you if you allow this structure to be built close to the problem line and you're getting a little 02:26:54
bit high and in that case. 02:26:59
Still be a problem at. 02:27:05
Because we can only build a certain size of, you have to have that extra. 02:27:08
Height the loft office and so that's the but I think you're going to get one or the other. I don't think they're going to get room 02:27:14
to have both. 02:27:18
Shorter set back than with lower hydro. 02:27:26
Great. Yeah. 02:27:33
Yeah. 02:27:38
Would have a rebellion of. 02:27:39
And that might work if we're close to the line, we we have more room to have on living. 02:27:42
Level so that might that. 02:27:48
But again, this is the one that drives you nuts where it's a waterway. It's not a residential use. I don't. I don't think when 02:27:51
you're talking setbacks, you should give away the adjacent use principle. 02:27:56
I think that's the overriding 1. 02:28:02
You can talk about mitigation along with that, right, But I don't think you want to give that away. That's where you lose sense, 02:28:04
right? I mean, if. 02:28:08
Next to somebody. 02:28:14
Already existing 35 foot garage. 02:28:15
Right. Yeah. 02:28:20
So I wouldn't. 02:28:21
I wouldn't give away the adjacent use transplant. 02:28:23
Mitigation becomes important to start to talk about it. 02:28:27
Setbacks that still matters. 02:28:31
But how do you how do you write that piece in you're talking about? 02:28:34
Because I agree with that completely. 02:28:38
I mean. 02:28:40
Those are things that you know. 02:28:43
You think you have in 15 minutes and you handle, somebody else will look at it and say that's stupid. That doesn't. 02:28:45
It takes a while to draft, but you could get to that. 02:28:50
But then we get back to the principle of, well, what's the? 02:28:53
What's our context here? Is that the minimum standards for the quick staff? 02:28:57
Thing what is the alternative because it's just considering so that is primarily what we. 02:29:02
Yeah. Is that we want to have very few conditional. 02:29:10
Initial uses would be for we maintain the same building footprint size. So if we have a set permitted building footprint size for 02:29:15
accessory buildings, if it's larger than that then it's conditional use. 02:29:22
And I think that if we just maintain that if they're going larger, then it would just be additional use. I don't know if there's 02:29:29
anything within the external Adu. 02:29:34
Standards that you can't just make. Standards that would trigger. 02:29:40
So there was. 02:29:46
Create the standards he's talking about so it doesn't have to complain Commission. 02:29:47
Yeah. 02:29:54
Are you saying that we should specify adjacent use or no? Well, I think you should consider it. I don't. 02:29:54
I don't like the word specified, but I think. 02:30:02
When you start to talk about setbacks, you should consider the adjacent use. 02:30:05
Right. 02:30:10
I mean, it's something you struggle with and we. 02:30:34
I don't know what it looks like right now. 02:30:38
You just threw the hand grenade and ran away. That's what's special. 02:30:41
I. 02:30:50
You know, 15. 02:30:51
Years ago it was common to write. 02:30:54
Exceptions to certain land use restrictions in ordinance, right? 02:30:56
And if they were administratively applied sometimes to get the exception. 02:31:01
That you would have to go to a bank. 02:31:08
So that you could get a little bit of a. 02:31:11
I don't want to call it a discretionary application, but. 02:31:14
A little bit more reasoned application for the particular circumstance. That's more site specific, right? Right. You can still do 02:31:19
that at a staff level. 02:31:22
You know, but. 02:31:28
But it's going to take. 02:31:30
You have a standard and then you can vary the standard here, right? So your standard status here under these conditions, yeah, 02:31:33
your standard is 1/10 of a set back. 02:31:38
You can vary that in these circumstances. 02:31:44
Right. 02:31:46
And then it's both. 02:31:48
Use proximate and then. 02:31:52
You can allow them to take certain mitigation measures which. 02:31:54
Can I guess further justify the exception or? 02:32:00
Create more. 02:32:04
Into the exception, right right. So if they've got if they're building a lot with, you know, the 10 foot set back and this guy has 02:32:06
a three foot set back for a 35 foot double garage that's detached from this house right and you're setting the AU right next to 02:32:12
it. I don't care the door opens. 02:32:18
We don't care where the door into that opens, it can open, right? 02:32:26
That's something you could do. 02:32:34
So, so let me just make sure I understand what you're saying. So you're saying that these are the standards that we could then 02:32:35
say. 02:32:39
For example, 10 foot is the standard but. 02:32:43
If the. 02:32:47
I don't know if if there's. 02:32:50
To the discretion of staff that there's they would rather have it be set right. You would rather not have these going to a 02:32:53
Planning Commission. OK then that's the way we'll write it. What we're gonna do when we write it too is over time, chef's gonna 02:32:58
apply two or three. These are gonna say OK, this was hard. 02:33:04
And so we're going to write internal rules for them that they can hand applicants to say these are the internal rules. This is 02:33:10
what this is the way we interpret these standards. This is what's binding the staff now, right? So over time you're going to 02:33:14
develop. 02:33:18
Sort of an interpretive. 02:33:22
Framework for how you're applying it, that's the same. 02:33:25
It works the same as a planning Commission's consistent action on that. 02:33:30
It has the same effect, but you're not burning your Planning Commission with. 02:33:33
You know, and I suspect if you do the external thing. 02:33:37
He'll probably get a run. 02:33:42
Applications, right? 02:33:44
You know, I do agree with that approach. 02:33:45
It takes some time to get to that point. 02:33:48
Yeah, absolute defendable ordinance in the strange case of appeal. In the meantime, it would be better to have the sets of 02:33:50
standards than we could probably come up with. 02:33:55
Most of your ordinances architectural. 02:34:01
When you have redevelopment in holiday, it's based on. 02:34:05
Yeah. What does the streetscape look like? You know, because your lot, you know, how wide is your lot? How you know deep it is. 02:34:08
Warrants all of the buildable envelope that creates the setbacks for that particular. 02:34:15
Is exactly the same sub St. 02:34:25
Because of that. 02:34:28
So if you were looking at backyard context and applying similar scenarios, I think we can get to that point if that's. 02:34:28
Meet the context of the backyards. 02:34:37
I think our goal was to protect the neighbors and if they have the context is such like you have a 35 foot garage, you have a 02:34:39
canal, then you know that's important because their value we're trying to protect is not being overly imposing. 02:34:48
Surrounding neighbors, if you have a neighborhood of all homes have attached garages. Nothing is really detached in the backyard 02:34:58
and maybe it's a size element. 02:35:02
Larger than 250 square feet. 02:35:08
Normal size 20 by 4800 square feet. Then we can start to sort of codify those. These are the values or the standards. 02:35:11
In a very non standard version I think. 02:35:21
Understands putting the context. 02:35:32
That creates a little bit of a Wild West that if you're comfortable with. 02:35:38
Well, I think, I think to the residents, typically we have this conversation with residents and they're like, well, kids there and 02:35:42
you saw that with this. 02:35:47
Property owner as well. Like well here's the context of my property. My neighbor has a garage here and healthcare and we want to 02:35:53
preserve these large trees so can we have some? 02:35:58
And I think that's, I was just thinking about that too, like the vegetation, if there's existing vegetation, actually another. 02:36:07
So it didn't codify that in a way that they're comfortable enforcing that's that's kind of the values we're OK with. 02:36:14
Well, it wasn't the property that originally started this whole thing that he has had. He had a detached garage was technically an 02:36:20
80. I mean, that's another situation where it feels like it would be pretty straightforward logically, right? And especially 02:36:28
considering the impact of that where it's completely underground, which was like it's underground, like it's a basement. 02:36:36
That it's there, that feels