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Undoubtedly have. 00:00:00
I'll swap with you. 00:00:03
We're up. We're going. 00:00:13
We're going all right. 00:00:15
Good afternoon and welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission work session. 00:00:17
We have in attendance all planning commissioners except for Commissioner Baron who will be absent today. And Carrie Ann is a 00:00:24
question mark Prince, excuse me, Karen Prince, but we have legal counsel and. 00:00:30
To city staff here to support this evening, and it looks like the first item on our agenda is the zone map amendment. 00:00:38
On Highland Drive, so is that going to be Carrier, John? That'll walk us through that. I will walk you through that one. 00:00:47
So this is a zone map amendment for 5428 S Highland Drive. A little bit of history on this property is that it was originally 2 00:00:54
parcels until 2013. The owner of those two parcels combined them into a single parcel. 00:01:02
Sold to the current owner. The current owner would like to put them back into two parcels. 00:01:11
Keep the zoning on the rear parcel that has kind of the driveway access off of Baywood that will remain at half an acre and then 00:01:18
there's a remaining I think .44 acres that fronts onto Highland Drive. 00:01:26
And that is what the reason would be applied to is just that front piece. You can see that in the narrative you have a printed out 00:01:34
copy. That's the most recent narrative that accurately reflects the requested zone for that front portion on Highland Drive. You 00:01:42
can see the existing house, the garage. They are putting the property boundary exactly where it was before. 00:01:51
The two parcels were combined. 00:02:00
The house that's on there is an older house, there's access off of Highland Drive for that house, and then the rear house is half 00:02:03
an acre. Would stay as an R121 zone and have the access from Baywood Dr. 00:02:10
There any? 00:02:18
Questions on that. I know it's kind of a different situation where it's, it will be two parcels and just the front portion of the 00:02:19
parcel on Highland Dr. would be rezoned and the R210 zone was selected based off of the Highland Dr. master plan. So it does match 00:02:27
the guidance in that. Do we have a zone map in the packet that we can zoom there should be or I also John, I have a tab pulled up 00:02:34
with the zone map on it. 00:02:42
If you want to go to that. 00:02:50
It's not. 00:03:00
So this is one of four homes along Highland Drive in that area that doesn't have the. 00:03:07
Waldorf, look. 00:03:13
I think so. I haven't driven down that section of Highland Dr. There's because a lot of those properties, they are larger parcels 00:03:16
that the backside kind of backs up to Highland Drive. I just drove by, it is fenced. It's a fenced on a Highland. 00:03:25
I think there's the there's an opening where the driveway is, yes. So it's not the really cute little house that's been well 00:03:35
preserved. OK, that was when I was a little worried about it is still a cute house. 00:03:41
Just less visible. 00:03:49
OK. Is there any just anything that you can think of that would? 00:03:51
Next year's look at the general plan? Change the zoning. 00:03:58
So we'd have to do this again. 00:04:04
Right. And that's what with a rezone to prevent it from then coming back again and having to go through the same process it was, 00:04:06
this is what the general plan guidance is. So it is then in line with that just rezone it to the recommended R210 at this point 00:04:15
rather than the applicant originally was thinking like an R115. 00:04:23
Which works for the property but isn't necessarily in line with what the the Highland Dr. master plan. Can we zoom out on the? 00:04:32
Map a little bit here. 00:04:42
Yeah, you can see a lot of the. 00:04:45
So across the street is the Great Orthodox Church. And then you have neighborhood commercial slightly to the north. There is 00:04:49
another commercial property slightly to the South. So this is just this little pocket of properties that are a little bit larger 00:04:56
in size. So this whole section, I'm sorry to interrupt this whole section from basically the nursing home all the way to the R18 00:05:03
PUD right there, that's all. 00:05:11
One right now, right, right. So we're going to carve out just one little square of R120 in there and then the other. 00:05:19
Homes strategy is to catch up because it's planned that way for the Highland corridor, right? So any properties that do have 00:05:32
frontage on Highland Dr. they could rezone in accordance with the Highland Dr. master plan. 00:05:39
And rezoning typically is done at the discretion of the property owner when they request that, when they apply for that, the city 00:05:47
generally does not just come in and rezone properties. So it's the property owner would request it. We go to the general plan that 00:05:54
gives us the guidance and that's how zone recommendation is made. And if I remember the HDMP said something and I can't remember 00:06:02
the exact language of the HDMP, but it was something to the effect of. 00:06:09
Not disrupting existing neighborhoods and. 00:06:17
I can't remember the exact. Anybody else recently look at the HDMP just for grins and giggles and read over that? Remember what 00:06:23
I'm talking about? I haven't pulled up in a tab too. John can click over to it. It's that specific section in. 00:06:29
The general plan that refers to the Highland Dr. Master plan and then the Highland Dr. Master plan as well, so. 00:06:37
Both of those are there. The guidance for rezoning is just that, not any new room. 00:06:43
Zones be established in that section. 00:06:51
A lot of things that we're seeing now with redevelopment too is that there's either townhomes or kind of a single family style 00:06:55
home that could have a second unit behind it. There's there are ways to create that, but with the square footage of the property, 00:07:04
you can see on the second page where to best utilize all of the the land that would be on that front portion. 00:07:12
At the most ideal is three single family homes. 00:07:22
Of course, whoever owns that property can develop it in accordance with the RT zone, but I. 00:07:26
The three single family units is the best use of all the. 00:07:34
And to be clear, in R210. 00:07:40
Allows for two units for every 10,000 square feet. 00:07:43
Right, two attached unit or two attached units for 10,000 square feet or it allows for single family detached as well and each 00:07:48
unit that's detached is 6250 square feet. 00:07:55
So you don't have to do attached units, they don't have to be duplexes, you can still do single family homes there. 00:08:03
But just trying to do math in my head because it's been a day 2 * 2 to 10, and then there's four 10s in an acre, right? So we're 00:08:11
talking about 8 in an acre of property, 8 potential attached homes if R210 was extended to the house next door on either side. And 00:08:19
they bought all those up and said here we want to put a row along Kentucky Ave. or whatever, you know what I'm saying? 00:08:27
Just making sure I understand the zoning math for me right? If if a if there was more than. 00:08:36
A acre there, or if there is an acre, then that is. 00:08:43
Or. 00:08:51
Yeah. And then going back to the HDMP language that John just had up, didn't it say something about 5 per acre in there? 00:08:54
Right, no more than 5 per acre. So this would be? 00:09:02
By that three more units than that if in my hypothetical scenario the neighbors on either side decided to go R210 and someone came 00:09:07
in and said I want to build this here. 00:09:13
Right, there's. 00:09:20
The. 00:09:24
What I was looking at the area with the Highland Dr. master plan versus the properties, most of those properties front on the 00:09:27
other, they would have to do a similar kind of scheme where they'd subdivide, keep half an acre in the protected zone and then 00:09:34
whatever is remaining would be on the front. So it would require then somebody purchasing some of those fronting parcels on 00:09:41
Highland Drive and then combining enough of them to get up. 00:09:49
An acre. 00:09:56
I'm just, like I said, trying to make sure I understand the future vision of 20 years from now. What does it look like when three 00:10:00
homes potentially are built on this plot and the neighbors say, well, I lost my view and Highlands a mess anyway. And then they 00:10:06
say, hey, how much do you want to give me for this? And they sell and they say, great, now we can put six or seven or we'll buy 00:10:11
you and the neighbors and put, you know, eight more in there. You know what I'm saying? 00:10:17
I'm sorry, I'm just trying again, just looking in the looking in the crystal ball. I'm not saying that's going to happen. What I'm 00:10:25
more concerned about this is an aside, as you know. 00:10:31
If you put all that on Highland Dr. here's a road that's just going to get busier and busier, and to have cars trying to pull off 00:10:36
of Highland drive into residential is a nightmare already. And this is just going to exacerbate that issue. But it is consistent 00:10:43
with the zoning that the city. 00:10:49
Wants there. 00:10:56
And then I just hope when we get no one, I don't think anyone's using the driveway now because they're accessing it off Baywood 00:10:58
through the back. Now she's going to have to access it off island, which I think she's going to learn to hate real quickly. But I 00:11:05
don't know. It's up to her. But then if you rezone and at some point they put two or three or whatever they can put in there. 00:11:11
Getting those people on and off a Highland Drive at that particular point is going to be very, very disruptive to traffic, right? 00:11:19
And it's likely then if you're looking at that kind of access typically. 00:11:26
We'd a lot of development that I've seen is a shared driveway. So you have a single access point that three houses are sharing and 00:11:33
that's pretty typical of some of those new developments off of Highland is having a sequel driveway. 00:11:41
Who owns Highland Drive at that point? 00:11:49
You don't or the state? No, it's the city owned. City owned. OK, all right. 00:11:54
And it is. Is that 2 lanes John? 00:12:00
One line in your direction. 00:12:04
At this location, I think no, there's two lanes, there's two. 00:12:08
Yeah, 2 with no sidewalk. 00:12:13
Did the. 00:12:17
Traffic engineer Yeah, there's a sidewalk there. 00:12:19
Did Jared take a look at this? Is he part of the TRC? Yes. 00:12:23
So what you're not seeing now is I don't know if you remember last year or the year before, we have a grant to improve Highland 00:12:27
Dr. dramatically. That hasn't happened yet. 00:12:31
Because we didn't get the grant or because we're changing, some of the grant aspects have changed. 00:12:37
It's still in process, but that holds this whole stretch of Highland Drive. The cross section will will change. 00:12:43
That's right. Is this the area that's slated for one lane and bike lanes and sidewalks? I don't think that's going to happen. 00:12:50
OK. Mm-hmm. 00:12:58
Isn't the whole point of the General Plan and the Highland Dr. Master plan? 00:13:00
To ultimately increase density along that corridor. 00:13:06
To a point, yes. That's why you have 55 units an acre maximum. 00:13:10
For long. 00:13:15
Other questions on this one? 00:13:20
All right, look forward to that. 00:13:23
Discussion and what the applicant has to say. And then on the next one on here we have action item number 2, the 1740 E. 00:13:25
Holiday townhomes. 00:13:34
Site plan. 00:13:38
Hey, so on this one, we initially saw the conceptual plan for this in July, July 16th. 00:13:42
The applicant came back with a revised site plan that has a central access with a hammerhead to facilitate turnaround in order to 00:13:52
have that central. 00:13:56
Access that was recommended by the fire Marshall and the city engineer pushed the setbacks a little bit smaller on all sides of 00:14:03
the property. 00:14:08
So moving it away from Big Cottonwood Creek closer to the multifamily on the north side, the South side is largely a road access. 00:14:13
There's another multi family property that's stuck back behind that kind of tucked in and then I don't remember what was on the 00:14:20
east side it's. 00:14:27
Kind of a smaller board property border there. 00:14:35
But I think it may be a single family property. So moved it back. The there is an allowance referenced in our code for site plan 00:14:39
modifications for public safety and for environmental concerns. So where we have the Creek that's there and public safety access, 00:14:48
making sure that EMS and fire services can reach all of those units, that's where those setbacks were reduced. 00:14:57
Did we resolve Weather 1740 as a public or private road? 00:15:09
It is public, but it is a smaller access because all these documents show this as a private route again. 00:15:14
It's still on there as a private road, but in the narrative it's as. 00:15:23
Public, but in the in the. 00:15:28
It all says private, so it's very confusing. 00:15:32
Yeah. And that's what we would make sure is clear on the final site plan. The Planning Commission can make sure that that's noted 00:15:35
in the findings is that for the final that that road needs to be clarified. It does have a green street sign on it. So that's 00:15:44
where it's public, but it's largely an access Rd. for the multi family development and this property. 00:15:53
And also I had a question about. 00:16:07
When we do the calculations for the density there, that includes 100 year floodplain, even though you can't build on top of it. 00:16:09
Right. 00:16:18
Kind of seems silly, but. 00:16:21
The ordinance allows it, right? So that right, the number is still correct, even though there's a big chunk of that South side 00:16:23
that could not be built on because it kind of looked like. 00:16:29
The new plan. 00:16:34
What we thought we were seeing in the old plan look much nicer than what we're seeing in this plan, because now there's no open 00:16:36
space. Essentially, it's just. 00:16:40
The floodplain, right? And that would be expected since you can't build into floodplain anyway. You'd see a similar situation with 00:16:45
any type of development near a floodplain. That is a common situation for a variance where you'd have a variance for setbacks. So 00:16:53
things get pushed away because your land and the area that you can build on is limited by a natural feature. 00:17:01
Can I just clarify to make sure I understand this? So we saw the preliminary was the preliminary we saw back in July concept, 00:17:12
conceptual? 00:17:16
But now the setbacks are smaller. So we're tonight we're deciding if that's. 00:17:23
Fine. Is there a point where we say sorry, 9 units don't fit, we don't want to change that. I mean is that an option? We can 00:17:29
either say this new sub X are fine, it seems like public safety, environmental blah blah. Or it's 9 units don't fit, don't change 00:17:35
the setbacks, do fewer units. Is that the other option? 00:17:41
Not with the entitled right of how many units are allowed for the amount of land. 00:17:47
So the total amount of units is entitled, right and we have allowances within our code to reduce that backs for public safety and 00:17:54
environmental concerns. So you do have the capability to reduce this. 00:18:02
So where is the leeway? 00:18:14
On our part, So what I think, let me clarify just a little bit. You're at odds with the TRC. 00:18:17
Right now, TRC. 00:18:23
Representation from the safety coordination side. Engineering and fire. 00:18:26
Was not going to recommend your previous concept layout. 00:18:32
Access was a concern, too many turns for fire trucks getting around the corners in there, and so in order to get a plan that could 00:18:37
be recommended by emergency access, this is the layout that they came to or derived to from with the developer. 00:18:45
What that requires is a reduction in set back on that north side. 00:18:54
Of what the RM zone requires. 00:18:59
In the ordinance, it stays that the Planning Commission can reduce setbacks if there's something that's in conflict. It has to do 00:19:02
with safety and health, health, safety and welfare for the site development site. 00:19:08
To not approve a reduction of setbacks in lieu of reducing the number of units. 00:19:16
That would put the city at odds for the allowance for density because they could just go back to the original plan. 00:19:22
You would have to consider an A recommendation from the TRC that doesn't. 00:19:29
Recommend that layout and. 00:19:35
Oh boy. 00:19:38
So right now this is. 00:19:39
The layout here doesn't isn't look as nice and does it's not as attractive as what you previously saw. But as far as safety and 00:19:42
access for a very deep lot getting all the way down there with an emergency access for another. 00:19:48
Who knows how many individuals, fire and emergency access emergency services were concerned, even with just a minor slip and fall, 00:19:57
getting in there quickly. 00:20:01
And apart from other some other things, snow storage and such. 00:20:08
But we the meeting which this was presented as said in the minutes that we're reviewing for tonight. So I. 00:20:13
Just handily looked at them. We did say that whatever was went forward. Had to meet with the fire marshals. 00:20:21
Requirements and the engineering items that would come up so. 00:20:30
Are we really not in agreement? But in order to do that they had to shift so all the units so far north it encroaches into that 00:20:37
set back area. So yes, they did meet with the with the engineer and the fire department to get a layout that's acceptable. 00:20:45
But that forced him to move into a set back. That's not required. That's required of the room zone. 00:20:53
That makes sense. 00:21:00
So it was a catch 22, Yeah, before the roadway access being on the north side and on the east side was essentially their set back 00:21:02
because I think it's is it 15? 00:21:09
So they went down from 15 to 10 and some of those points are a little bit further. The closest points are 10 feet. There's a 00:21:19
little bit of variation on the on the building designs. But because that road was not is no longer on the perimeter serving as 00:21:26
their set back and it had to be moved into the area where their buildings were going to be. They had to then move the buildings 00:21:34
out to the north and a little to the east for that hammerhead. 00:21:41
So are we then? 00:21:49
Said are we suggesting this change to the setbacks or were approving that we're being asked for that I'm now I've now I've gotten 00:21:53
lost in the weeds of what in the world we're doing. Yeah. So you are approved. This is their preliminary site plan and you are 00:22:01
being asked to approve or not approve this type. Thank you. 00:22:09
Is this already approved for APUD? 00:22:17
It's not a beauty. This is not a beauty, OK? It's just a permitted site plan in the room zone. 00:22:20
I'm just not clear on what basis we would not approve it. 00:22:27
We can't say this is too many homes on this site. We can't say that, right? We can't say you have to increase your setbacks 00:22:33
because then they won't get approval from the TRC, right? So it, it just feels like our hands are tied here. 00:22:41
And after all, the set back that we're worried about. 00:22:54
Mainly on the north is a chunky park parking lot, right? It's not a house or grass or backyard. It's a junky parking lot. 00:22:56
And a pretty large piece of parking lot. Yeah, yeah. 00:23:05
Yeah. And then in an ideal world, there could have been some easement agreements with that property owner for access, but you 00:23:17
know, that does not always work out. 00:23:21
But a lash? 00:23:27
And sprinklers are an option for fire suppression, but not for emergency paramedics or something. It doesn't. And that was another 00:23:29
concern that the Fire Marshall had. There's also garbage concerns. And because it is a public St. having a space where the public 00:23:37
can turn around on a narrow Rd. So having all those pieces incorporated into this development. 00:23:46
Was important for both. 00:23:55
Public safety and emergency, yeah. Considering there is the heat island just north of that on that side of the property, would it 00:23:58
be appropriate to request more or require more? 00:24:04
Free landscaping. Along that I think you could suggest it. 00:24:12
I don't know where you put any landscaping on this plan. There's no landscaping on this, right? Yeah, it's. 00:24:18
Yeah, all the stuff we heard about in the 1st. 00:24:25
Right. Yeah, it's all yeah, in the floodplain. 00:24:30
Legally required ones by the. 00:24:33
Any other questions on #2? 00:24:40
This is not specific to their plan but just in general with 100 year flood plan. 00:24:42
Can it not be disturbed agree during construction either or it can be they just have to restore it in some way or what? It just 00:24:49
has to be there. Well you you can disturb within banks of the floodplain with special permitting from the state, which they 00:24:55
probably aren't really interested in pursuing. So they would be they would. 00:25:01
Be careful to stay up on the front. 00:25:07
I mean, ideally if you really wanted to, if you had unlimited amounts of funds, yes, you would disrupt that bank side, increase 00:25:11
the floodway elevation, and then go apply to FEMA for a flood map letter of amendment so you're no longer in the floodplain. 00:25:19
I also I mean. 00:25:29
Based on recent changes, is 100 year flood really still 100 year flood on this? 00:25:31
We think. 00:25:38
I don't know if it's entirely accurate, but we still have to go buy the FEMA floodplain maps. 00:25:40
Yeah. 00:25:46
Thank you. 00:25:50
Right. And then the last item on there is just minute meeting minutes for four meetings. So we'll go through those. 00:25:52
All right. So if there's no other questions at this time on the agenda items, I think we can go ahead and close the work meeting. 00:26:05
And then do any commissioners need a quick recess before we jump right into the official meeting? A quick recess has been called 00:26:11
for. We will be back in 2 minutes. 00:26:17
And. 00:27:06
Just want some sugar down there. I got some caramels in here, they're delicious. 00:28:23
Yeah, she knows what's up. 00:28:27
Digging. 00:28:32
Bless you. 00:28:39
We're in trouble after Halloween. 00:28:45
I don't have any little kids anymore. We're gonna have to steal Angela's. 00:28:49
All right, John, we set. 00:29:07
All right. 00:29:12
Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission, October 1st, 2024. In attendance we have all commissioners 00:29:14
except Commissioner Barrant and Legal Counsel and both city staff. And we have 3 items on our agenda. The 1st is a public hearing 00:29:21
and then two action items. And before we get started with any of these meetings, we do have an opening statement that we read to 00:29:28
the public and I've asked Commissioner Gong if she will do that for us. 00:29:34
The City of Holiday Planning Commission is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special 00:29:43
studies. Make recommendations to the City Council on proposed zoning map and ordinance changes. 00:29:48
And improve conditional uses into subdivisions. 00:29:54
The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications, rather acts on applications as they are submitted. 00:29:57
Commissioners do not meet with applicants except that publicly noticed meetings. 00:30:03
Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda where the location, the nature of the neighborhood, existing structures 00:30:07
and uses related to the proposed change are noted. 00:30:11
Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff. 00:30:16
The City's general plan, zoning ordinance and other reports by all verbal and written comments and by evidence submitted, all of 00:30:21
which are part of the public record. 00:30:25
All right. Thank you very much. 00:30:31
And with that, we will roll into our first item on the agenda. We will ask city staff to come up and walk us through this zone 00:30:35
zone map amendment before us at 5428 Highland. 00:30:42
OK. 00:30:59
All right, first item on the agenda. This is a zone map amendment requested from the existing zone of R121 to R210. The property 00:31:01
is located at 5428 S Highland Drive. 00:31:09
The unique feature on this request is that the applicant is requesting to only rezone the front portion on Highland Dr. of this 00:31:19
property. 00:31:23
History for the property is that it was 2 parcels prior to 2013. Those two parcels were purchased by the owner of the parcel of 00:31:31
the Baywood parcel on the back. They bought the front one and then combined them into one single parcel. 00:31:39
The current owner wants to now divide them back how they were and then assign the appropriate zoning for each parcel. So the 00:31:49
Baywood property that has access off of Baywood Dr. 00:31:55
Would retain an R121 zone and then the front portion which is I believe it was .4. 00:32:02
.43 acres would be rezoned to R210. That zone was selected based off of the Highland Dr. master plan Which. 00:32:11
Calls for density that is no more than 5 units per acre, so about .25 or sorry, 2.5 units per half acre. 00:32:24
The. 00:32:36
Total square footage on that portion is. 00:32:39
I have this highlighted on here. 00:32:45
Maybe not. 00:32:52
The square footage on the R2 zone could be divided up in a couple of different ways. 00:32:55
If the property owner in the future would like to redevelop that as is, they. 00:33:01
Just want to leave the house that's existing there, but potentially the R2 zone would enable either. 00:33:07
Attached unit with two units in it and a single family detached house or would have could enable 3 detached single family homes on 00:33:16
it. At the point in time that any future redevelopment would occur, there would be a. 00:33:24
Building permit and access, all those kinds of issues that are addressed off of Highland Drive. The reason for higher densities on 00:33:32
Highland Drive is because of it serving as an arterial Rd. It has two lanes on it and. 00:33:39
With the uses around there on the north, there are some higher densities and the South also has higher densities. This is kind of 00:33:48
a unique pocket of lower density in segment B of the Highland Dr. master plan. 00:33:54
The Highland Dr. master plan does state that our M zones are not appropriate, but other zones are are open for rezoning in that 00:34:02
segment. 00:34:07
And just a little context on the zone that Mister Chairlink has pulled up there is the Greek Orthodox Church is directly across 00:34:14
the street. There's commercial properties on each side of the Greek Orthodox Church and then a pocket of those single family homes 00:34:21
all zoned as R121. 00:34:28
Majority of those have frontage on other properties or other kind of that interior neighborhood with the back up to Highland 00:34:36
Drive. I think there's probably two or three of those that front onto Highland Dr. directly, not very many that have frontage on 00:34:43
Highland Drive. 00:34:50
I outlined a scenario in the staff report about kind of the how many properties could potentially do something similar where they 00:34:59
portion off a portion onto Highland Drive. I think it's 3 or 4 properties could do a similar type of thing, but just because of 00:35:07
how those the size of the existing properties, how they're laid out. 00:35:15
Would require some coordination between property owners if they were ever to. 00:35:24
Expand to a larger size. 00:35:29
Highland Drive is also a transit route, UTA 220. I'm not sure where those transit stop locations are, but that does serve as a 00:35:32
main transit arterial. 00:35:38
So if there's any questions for me, I can answer those and otherwise I can have the applicant come up and present. 00:35:45
Their their application. 00:35:55
When this parcel was two separate properties, what was the zoning? 00:35:57
When it was 2 separate ones, I think it was still all under our 121 because there wasn't a rezone process that that happened to 00:36:04
when those were subdivided. 00:36:09
OK. And just while we've got the zone map up before we switch gears on it, could we just zoom out? I'm just curious how many other 00:36:16
R2 zones? 00:36:20
There are within. 00:36:24
Scope of this location along Highland there, so it looks like there's the ones that were built down on the corner. 00:36:28
So that's the corner of 5600. There's R210 directly across. There are some on the front of that. That's kind of a unique 00:36:36
development where some of those were R2 and then some are RM. The ones that are on Highland Dr. are zoned as RM. Is that correct, 00:36:42
John? 00:36:49
So the ones their backyard faces Highland Drive, but they retained an RM zone and then part of that development was R210. 00:36:58
RM for the property that's on the north. There's some more S that our R210. 00:37:08
And then? 00:37:14
On the Northside of those subject property. 00:37:16
I think there's some R1. 00:37:19
And RM. 00:37:22
So kind of a mix room there. 00:37:24
On both sides. 00:37:30
There's a neighborhood commercial that's. 00:37:35
On the corner. 00:37:39
And then a little pocket of R18. 00:37:42
So aside from that grouping of room, there's really not any R2 S along Highland until you get down to the intersection. 00:37:45
Right, OK. 00:37:52
All right. Thank you. 00:37:56
With that, we'll invite the applicant up. 00:37:58
My name is Ashley Wooley, I live at 4010 S Cumberland Dr. in holiday First. I want to thank Harry Marsh and the other staff for 00:38:07
guiding me through this process and preparing the staff report for this evening. And thank you to each one of you for volunteering 00:38:14
your time to be involved in our city government. 00:38:21
I am applying to rezone the front half of a property at 5428 S Highland Drive to bring it into compliance with the Highland Dr. 00:38:28
master plan. 00:38:32
This property has two complete residences sitting back-to-back on a single parcel, one facing east toward Highland Drive and one 00:38:37
facing West toward Baywood Dr. This is because a decade ago, the former owner consolidated the two parcels into a single parcel. I 00:38:44
purchased the property four years ago and lived in the Baywood house and used the home on Highland Drive as an accessory dwelling 00:38:51
unit. 00:38:57
I would now like to so our family has recently moved to a different part of holiday and I would like to undo that consolidation so 00:39:06
that I can sell the Baywood house. 00:39:11
But keep the Highland Dr. House. And the reason for wanting to keep it is because it is a beautiful, well preserved 1900 and 20s 00:39:16
Arts and Crafts style home and I've put significant resources into restoring and preserving it. 00:39:23
In the four years that I've owned it. 00:39:31
The reason I'm here this evening is because that original Highland Dr. parcel is slightly too small for the current zone of R121, 00:39:33
so with the advice of the planning office, I'm requesting that it be rezoned to R210IN accordance with the Highland Dr. master 00:39:41
plan. To be clear, I'm not proposing any new development or changes to the use of any property. 00:39:48
To answer a few questions that I heard raised during the work session, several commissioners were wondering if this was a historic 00:39:56
home. It is not designated as such, as far as I know. I looked into it when we purchased the property four years ago. As far as I 00:40:02
understand it, it would be eligible for that designation, but nobody has ever applied for it. And when we purchased the property 00:40:07
as a family with young kids, the cost benefit analysis just didn't work for us at that point to go through all of the process of 00:40:13
getting historic. 00:40:19
Nation, it didn't seem that there would be sufficient benefit for us at that time. That's something that we can look into in the 00:40:25
future and would be interested in doing. If anyone would like to know more about that property, I put together a little photo 00:40:29
album. 00:40:33
Since the agenda is short tonight and I don't want to take too much time, but I just want to point out it's only 5 pages. I don't 00:40:39
know what the appropriate procedure would be. I'll give it to Kerry and if anybody wants to look at it, they can. One highlight of 00:40:44
the home is the living room. It's got it used. It's it's a, it's a time machine. 00:40:50
Back to the 1920s, you step into the living room and has original windows with original glass, original woodwork, original 00:40:55
hardwood floor, original hardware lath and plaster walls with original paint and stenciling that's appropriate to the time period, 00:41:01
and you just get this beautiful doorknob that's on the front door. It's just stunning. 00:41:07
So that's that's an answer to that question about the the nature of the property. It is not on a designation, but in my view it 00:41:15
has architectural and aesthetic value and could be on a designation if we were to pursue that. 00:41:23
There were Commissioner Cunningham was expressing a truth which is that access from Highland Drive to that property is difficult. 00:41:32
We have never had, well at one point we had someone living there full time for a short period of time, but it's been used as an 00:41:37
Adu. 00:41:41
There is no one currently living there. We are going to be renovating the bathroom this fall. We don't have any plans for anyone 00:41:46
to live there full time anytime in the future. It could happen, but that's not our that's not how we've been using it and that's 00:41:52
not how we intend to use it right now. 00:41:58
So. 00:42:06
Again, we we don't intend to develop this property. If we did, we would have to get site plan approval and go through all those 00:42:10
other procedures and that would be the time to talk about increased density and things. We have no intention of going down that 00:42:17
road right now. In fact, the reason that we are doing this is to. 00:42:24
Preserve that special little place. 00:42:31
Rather than selling the property as it is, as one property where someone else might come in and tear it down and build a bunch of 00:42:36
homes, we're wanting to preserve that little piece of our history. 00:42:41
So that's it for me. I'm happy to answer any other questions that you might have. 00:42:47
I have just one quick question. So the decision to go to R210, was that on the advice of city staff or was that OK? 00:42:52
I had originally talked to them and in our initial conversations they had said maybe it are 110 or 115. So I had originally 00:43:02
submitted the application with that. But then after they looked into it more, they came back to me and said we actually think that 00:43:08
our 210 would be more consistent with the master plan. So that's what we'd recommend. So yes. 00:43:14
I appreciate that, Commissioners, any other questions for the applicant at this time? 00:43:22
All right. We'll go ahead and have you sit down for us for a few minutes here and then we will open our public hearing up. 00:43:25
Looks like we have some people here tonight that want to, might want to speak on this before you come up to the podium. We would 00:43:32
ask or when you come up to the podium, we would ask that you state your name and address for the record. And also try and keep 00:43:39
your remarks to roughly 3 minutes or less and try to avoid restating any comments made by other members of the public that might 00:43:45
have gone before you. And with that, we'll go ahead and open it up to anyone that would like to come up and speak on this now. 00:43:52
Once. Twice. 00:44:04
Nobody's here, nobody wants. OK, fair enough. Well then with that, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing. And since there's 00:44:06
no additional comments to work through, we'll turn to commissioners. And I've asked Commissioner Prince if she'd kind of lead us 00:44:12
in the discussion on this one. Just before you start, actually, Commissioner Cunningham, you're on the next one. Sorry, throwing 00:44:18
you on the spot there. But. And Commissioner Gong, just before we start, we've got a family connection, so I'm going to recuse 00:44:24
myself from this vote. So. 00:44:30
Good luck. 00:44:36
Ashley, I love you. 00:44:38
Fair enough, Commissioner Cunningham, I think we talked about everything there is to talk about. 00:44:43
Go ahead and make a motion if no one's supposed to doing that. 00:44:51
Try and make a motion out of what staff gave us here and then. So I make a motion. We forward recommendation of the City Council 00:44:56
to approve. 00:45:01
An application by Ashley Wooley to amend the holiday zoning map for .45. Is that correct .45? 00:45:06
4-5 or .43. 00:45:15
Yeah. So it's .43, correct? 00:45:19
So .43. 00:45:24
4/4 OK .443 acres of land located at 5428 S Highland Drive from R121 to R210 based on the following findings. A. The proposed 00:45:26
amendment is consistent with the goals, injectors and policies of the General Plan BE. The proposed amendment is harmonious with 00:45:35
the overall character of existing development of the vicinity. 00:45:45
See that there's been no public. 00:45:55
Identification of adverse effect of abutting properties. 00:45:58
And indeed, there's an adequacy of facilities and services intended to serve the subject property, including roadways, Parks and 00:46:04
Recreation facilities, police and Fire Protection, school storm drain drainage systems, environmental hazard mitigation measures, 00:46:10
water supply and wastewater and refuge collection. 00:46:16
This is Commissioner Prince. I'll second that motion. All right, We have a motion and it's been seconded. We'll call for a vote. 00:46:24
Commissioner Prince Aye. Commissioner Vaughn Aye. Commissioner Cunningham, Aye. And Chair Roach. 00:46:31
Will vote aye. 00:46:40
And therefore it does pass to the applicant. I would advise getting in touch with the Holiday Historical Commission. 00:46:44
I don't know if she heard me. She's she's she's off. That's OK. If city staff will make that recommendation and provide her with 00:46:54
who she could contact, that would be great. And pass the book up. Yes, yes. 00:47:00
Do you want me to pass that up now? Do you want to after? OK. 00:47:08
All right. And with that, we have an action item Next up on the agenda here for 1740 E Holiday Townhomes. And this is for the 00:47:12
permitted use preliminary and final review. And we'll invite city staff to come back up and walk us through this one. 00:47:22
OK. Second item here is for a permitted use site plan in the room zone at a preliminary level. Address is 4821 S, 1740 E This is a 00:47:37
site that we reviewed for conceptual site plan July 16th and they have now come back. 00:47:48
For preliminary receiving feedback from the Fire Marshall, from the city engineer, and from planning staff. 00:48:01
So. 00:48:09
The size of their property allows for 9 units and two parking spaces for their proposed use of three bedroom units. So those 00:48:11
require 2 spaces. Those will be in garage parking spaces. The original site plan had access going around the perimeter on the 00:48:19
north side and east side of the property. 00:48:26
The fire Marshall and city engineer both had concerns with how that access was. 00:48:36
Was shown on there concerns with public safety and environmental with the Big Cottonwood Creek that is there and how much pavement 00:48:42
there was. So there's different aspects with both the amount of payment garbage access, public works access, having a turn around 00:48:50
for public since 1740 E as a public road and. 00:48:58
Then also emergency services. The original concept plan had two units that were going to be on fire sprinklers which would have 00:49:06
met. 00:49:10
The requirement for fire, but with other emergency services getting back in there to access some of those units that were a little 00:49:15
bit further away and not being able to make turning radius with fire trucks or other emergency vehicles, that is where the fire 00:49:21
Marshall. 00:49:27
Worked with the developer to create an access that is central on the site because of the floodplain. 00:49:35
With Big Cottonwood Creek, the the property is pretty limited in where development can take place where structures can be built. 00:49:44
For that central access with a hammerhead turn around in it, the buildings had to be readjusted in their placement. With adjusting 00:49:53
their placement and putting that access down the middle of the property, it pushed those buildings out to the. 00:50:01
Northside and slightly to the east side as well. 00:50:09
Neighboring property on the north is ARM multifamily development. Also their parking and their dumpsters are right there on that 00:50:14
side of the parking lot. 00:50:19
The previous concept development was, I mean, the developers preferred it, he said. You know, it's a little bit nicer having all 00:50:26
of those units that were facing the Creek in kind of a central court, but when it comes to a public safety issue, then that's 00:50:32
where it had to be readjusted So that preliminary plan is presented. 00:50:38
With that central access that you can see pushing those units and now all of the garages will be off of that central access. It 00:50:45
then puts the front doors of the units on. 00:50:52
Five of those units on the larger building on the Northside. 00:51:00
And. 00:51:05
But there is adequate turn around there space for public turn around and for emergency service turn around. 00:51:07
The Planning Commission does have the ability to approve those kinds of adjustments on setbacks with your on a site plan when 00:51:14
there are issues with environmental concerns or public safety concerns. So that's what's being brought before the Planning 00:51:23
Commission today for preliminary review and approval. Any questions for staff before we have the applicant come up? 00:51:31
To help me just understand on the South side of this property that's up against the canal, with the change of the layout from what 00:51:41
was originally approved, is this going to require additional? 00:51:47
Birmingham and Earth to be brought in to keep everything high enough and level up out of that. Like I mean, it is basically going 00:51:55
to make the canal jut up to a wall to accommodate this this change versus what there would have been before. 00:52:02
I don't believe so. 00:52:11
So you have a retaining wall which is 4 inches tall. It's a curb. 00:52:15
OK. 00:52:22
So no, there's not going to be a wall. 00:52:23
I'm just curious whether that was going to look like on the Creek side. So 4 inches. So you can see here. I'll try to highlight it 00:52:26
4343.2 top back of curve at the bottom here and 4330434324 which is the middle of this turn around parking area, which is not much 00:52:33
of a difference. 00:52:39
OK. 00:52:47
I have a question for when we. 00:52:49
Go ahead and and, and act on this. Whatever form our motion takes. Do we have to specifically address the set back or can we 00:52:53
simply say we approve? 00:53:00
Don't approve. Suggest continuing this plan. 00:53:07
You can reference the staff report if you want to be specific. The section of code that's outlined in that is 13.08 point 08/01 00:53:12
A&C and then 3D. It's in the third paragraph here. 00:53:19
If you want to reference it specifically, I mean does it need you can just say following staff. 00:53:27
Recommendation or the TRC recommendation as presented? OK, All right. Thank you. 00:53:33
As far as parking spaces are met with garage parking. So is there no visitor parking in this plan from what I'm saying, OK. 00:53:39
So park down the street, walk on the sidewalk all the way around to get to where you're going. Got it? OK. 00:53:50
They plan on maybe we can ask that to the applicant, but I think they planned on a couple. 00:53:56
And these being stalls, these pavers. 00:54:02
I'm not sure if that changed. Yeah, OK, well then I probably should get the applicant up here. 00:54:06
Oh, I have one more question for city staff. I apologize. 00:54:15
I'm remembering that this street 1740 E what other private or public with. 00:54:21
Public signage but listed as private on our documents. 00:54:28
I'm I don't remember if you can do parking along the side of that street or not because there's a wall at one point. 00:54:32
Yeah, we looked at this in our TRC meeting. It's it has green signage. It's a public St. It's been maintained as a public street. 00:54:40
Is that right? So, but I think that there's no parking on one side of it. In fact, I would be surprised if. 00:54:49
Fire Marshall recommends painting some of that curb red because you're right, there is a wall that's built into the asphalt pretty 00:54:59
far. 00:55:03
Which makes me wonder if that's something that we should consider as part of our recommendations. 00:55:07
Sure, yes, yeah. If you have a consideration of maybe no parking along that first section because it's off of this drawing, maybe 00:55:14
I'll bring up the Salt Lake County assessor signed up too, if you want to go to their map where you can see the property lines. 00:55:22
Well, let's see, I can just bring this aerial up. 00:55:33
Looking at this photo, it might help. 00:55:37
It's going to get grainy. 00:55:40
But it would be. You can see where this driveway for Linden Apartments is located between the driveway and their entrance. 00:55:42
Likely should be recommended that that is no parking painted red. Mm-hmm. 00:55:51
Further north I think they all use it currently as on street parking. 00:55:56
All of these residents do. 00:56:02
But the West side, where there's the wall? 00:56:04
That's working. That's a no parking currently. OK, thank you. I don't think there's enough space for people to park there. Well, 00:56:09
that doesn't mean people won't park. It doesn't mean that people won't park in your situation because I don't there's not a curb 00:56:13
there. 00:56:17
It's just a the end of asphalt and the ball. 00:56:23
Thank you. 00:56:27
OK. 00:56:29
All right, now we'll have the applicant come up. 00:56:30
Good evening. Brad Reynolds, 2500 E Haven Lane in Holladay, UT. 00:56:36
I am the applicant for the proposed project at 1740 E. 00:56:43
We has been stated by staff, we originally had submitted a little different site plan and as we got to meet with some of the staff 00:56:50
and engineer and particularly the Fire Marshall, there was a strong recommendation that we change our site plan. So we went back 00:56:58
and reworked it. It's a challenging site because there's certain. 00:57:06
Restrictions with FEMA and the flood control in the stream where you have to have a minimum of 50 feet. 00:57:16
That you cannot encroach upon that 50 foot set back. So we reworked the site plan and I think. 00:57:24
Everyone was quite pleased, including the Fire Marshall and the engineer, because it has easy accessibility and it seems to flow 00:57:32
well for all emergency vehicles. 00:57:38
And we are certainly planning on at least 2 parking stalls. Uh. 00:57:45
And then we hope depending on how our FEMA flood maps and different things go or we could potentially on that little center turn 00:57:50
around, maybe add to that at a future date. But for right now, we do have two additional stalls. 00:57:58
We feel like this is a very nice plan and we've tried to open a lot of green space open to the Creek where everybody that's living 00:58:06
there can have that. 00:58:11
Available to them to go use and enjoy. It's a relatively flat as what would brought up so there's not a steep bank or anything off 00:58:18
the Creek and all that will be grass going down to the Creek. 00:58:24
Any questions I could answer for you? 00:58:31
So I'm I'm remembering when we saw this before the units faced. 00:58:35
Seems like they all faced the Creek for a view. 00:58:42
What is your current plan? This is on your screen. I put up the original concept. 00:58:45
OK. So you can see they all kind of faced each other. There was a center court, OK, that you would. And then we'd have balconies 00:58:52
and decks that you could look out towards the Creek. And we tried to keep the center portion open so everybody could see the Creek 00:59:00
or most could have a accessible route to go use that open area by the Creek. 00:59:08
And now with our new one, it's pretty similar. We've opened up the center. We just have more units that face directly to the 00:59:18
north. So the the five that are in one building, their front door will be on the north side and they'll face out. Yeah, the front 00:59:26
door will be on the north, but they'll have upper balconies that will look back towards the Creek and towards the mountains if. 00:59:35
When the view will allow. 00:59:44
OK. 00:59:47
And if memory serves, there's a wall currently running along that N into the property. 00:59:48
There's not a wall, but there's a fence from the Linden Apartments and a little bit of a just a slight lip of asphalt there where 00:59:53
it connects to our property, but very minimal, no wall. 00:59:59
Will you put a wall up? We're not planning to. We're hoping to just transition off that fence to our grade and we think it should 01:00:07
should work well without a wall. So there's no wall planned. There is a four foot sidewalk that kind of connects and goes around 01:00:12
the perimeter of the project. 01:00:18
OK. Is there any? 01:00:25
Arbor scape in your landscape plan that doesn't involve the Creekside? 01:00:28
Yeah, No, when you say arborscape trees, trees, yeah, we, we will definitely as we finalize the landscape plan and that will 01:00:37
certainly have some trees and different things that will try to soften some of the hard surface and that around there. And I think 01:00:43
with this central and surprisingly on that back against the Creek, there are huge pine trees that they're just absolutely 01:00:50
beautiful trees. So we're trying to make sure. 01:00:57
Try to stay away from those and take good care of them. 01:01:06
I'm just thinking the heat island and noise island that will be created in the middle if you don't have, because I'm based on what 01:01:09
you have on here, I can't see the dimensions of the space between the drives for the garages. But I mean, I can't imagine that 01:01:16
that's going to be a Maple tree that's going to fit in there. No, unfortunately in the center there. I I seriously doubt we might 01:01:22
have a few shrubs that are in between the driveways by the aprons that go into the garage. 01:01:29
But there won't be much landscape in that center area there. 01:01:36
There's just no room. It's all. It's like a 20 foot wide drive approach coming in. 01:01:41
Any other questions for the applicant So the. 01:01:49
The public Rd. would end at your property line. 01:01:52
Correct. And that what were we doing for garbage collection, This will all be private. So we'd have like waste Management, 01:01:57
everybody would have an individual garbage can and they'd come in once a week and pick up those garbage cans. So whether that's 01:02:04
placed right at the entrance where it typically would be, we haven't totally. That's most likely everybody would cart that out to 01:02:11
that center approach area right there as you come into the project. 01:02:18
But it won't be any dumpster pads or anything like that. 01:02:26
And back to the visitor parking issue. 01:02:31
So how many visitor parking? 01:02:36
Stalls are they're going to be. 01:02:38
Right now there's just two designated ones, and code requires 0, so we're actually 2 above what the city requires. 01:02:40
And where would they be? It'd be right now you can see there's kind of a little brick paver area next to that little. 01:02:49
Turn around area in the center of the project. There's kind of brick pavers there. 01:02:56
So that that's really hard skate parking, right? Not it's not even decorative. Well, it's like it's paver. So it is decorative. 01:03:03
Was possibly a small rubber tree. Make it in there. There you go. 01:03:16
I've got to say, I mean I know the code doesn't require any, but it just shares the mind that you have 9 residences. 01:03:23
Only two visitor stalls, and then you're going to impinge on the public roadway, which is already impinged on by the big apartment 01:03:31
complex where all those cars parked because they don't want to park in the parking lot every time I go by there. 01:03:39
It's full. Is it because it's surprising if you drive into their very entrance that's closest to us, they have a lot of excess 01:03:48
parking whenever we go by that side of it is empty. Now, whether some choose to park on the street, I don't know, but there are 01:03:56
several stalls that are very seldom used that are just open stalls. So I don't know how many use the street. But did you enter 01:04:03
into an agreement with them? So we've actually been talking to them and, and. 01:04:10
Looking to perhaps even purchase a little more property to the north, but we have not finalized any negotiations to do that. 01:04:18
We might be able to workout a parking arrangement. 01:04:28
We know him a little bit, so we'll continue to work on that. 01:04:32
And as a developer, do you have any objection if the city says? 01:04:36
Parking one side only. 01:04:41
I don't have an issue with that. I really don't. I, I do not as a developer and we do a lot of big projects throughout the valley. 01:04:43
I do not like painting the curb red, to be honest with you. I'd rather see a sign because after a year and a half it looks 01:04:50
horrible. And so somebody to keep it looking nice, it's got to repaint that like every year. And what happens, it never gets done. 01:04:56
So in my opinion. 01:05:03
I think that's not the way to go. I think you'd be better off to put a sign. No parking. 01:05:10
Or parking, you know, something on this side only. Or whatever was signage. 01:05:16
Problem. I guess the problem there is the sign that the side that you want to put the no parking doesn't have anything to put the 01:05:22
no parking on except that. 01:05:25
Wall. Well, no, you've got see if you look right there where his arrow is, See right there, you've got a little bit right there. 01:05:30
But other than that you don't 'cause it's all approached going into Linden Apartments. 01:05:34
But there is a small area right there. 01:05:40
Between the sidewalk and that fence. 01:05:43
And that curve that you could put a sign there. 01:05:46
I mean, and if it had to be painted, it does. It's just typically we do not like how they look after a year or two. 01:05:49
So we typically try to stay away from that. 01:05:59
But if the council feels like it should be painted, we'll certainly do it. 01:06:04
I think for those types of things, the city actually will go in and paint them and sign them. 01:06:10
Paint is cheap. 01:06:19
That's Holiday is on top of that as well as. 01:06:22
Keeping the weeds cleaned up, they do a great job so. 01:06:25
After my public safety days, I would tell you that I. 01:06:29
Prefer that there not be any parking on that at all. It isn't a regular sized road and if you need to bring a fire truck or 01:06:33
something in I. 01:06:37
I would just stop all the parking on that road on both sides, yeah. 01:06:42
Well, if I might, if I may, it's definitely been brought to the attention of our emergency services as they look at this in more 01:06:48
detail and understanding where the city is coming from, from public service, from public works department. 01:06:54
Acknowledging that this is a public St. even though you've got a fence that's relatively new been built a good 5 feet into the 01:07:01
right of way. 01:07:05
Access is at the top. 01:07:11
Top of the list, so on street parking it might be, is something that they can definitely look, start looking at and how that's 01:07:13
being treated. 01:07:18
At the risk of making Mr. Reynolds stand here longer, how in the world? 01:07:23
How does somebody just build a fence into the cities right away that the city hasn't come through with a bulldozer and taken it 01:07:30
out? The problem is that it wasn't right of way. But when we incorporated this area in 2014. 01:07:37
It was a private drive to who lived back here? What was their names? 01:07:45
Yeah, Van der Linden. Yeah. Anyway, so over time, the city starts plowing it and maintaining it, and they decide to put up a green 01:07:52
sign. So we have a lot of these substandard streets that were started out as private and then morphed into a public situation, as 01:07:59
you know, as intensity goes on, but their property line goes to the middle of the road. 01:08:06
So we're lucky the fence isn't in the middle of the road. True. 01:08:15
So at some point, when and if this development starts to morph. 01:08:19
Change get raised, we will address that and bring that fence back to the proper width of the right of way. 01:08:25
Can I? Can I ask a question? Certainly. 01:08:34
I I. 01:08:39
I think this plan actually lost a lot in the change and I understand that there are public safety. 01:08:41
Concerns, but. 01:08:47
The feel of the the plan changed from a neighborhood feel where you could walk out your door down to the Creek you would see your 01:08:49
neighbours, to one where you're gonna drive in your garage. You never see anybody. So I I think. 01:08:54
The plan is. 01:09:00
Materially different in how it will feel to live here, um. 01:09:02
So I'm just wondering, did you consider building fewer buildings? Did you consider making them smaller? I just, I actually think 01:09:07
this is it sort of changed from a place where I was like, oh, I could picture living there to be like, I don't, I don't know, 01:09:13
because the, the nature of the neighborhood, this little 9 house neighborhood is quite different than it was. 01:09:19
I think there's advantages and disadvantages too. And obviously we've talked about how the Fire Marshall emergency vehicles and 01:09:27
the engineer feel about it. And I honestly feel with the amount of hard surface that was on the other site plan where you had a 01:09:36
big U-shaped driveway that was going around the entire project, there was a tremendous amount of hard surface. 01:09:45
And I think with what we've done, that has been. 01:09:54
Greatly reduced and so you'll definitely have a lot more green space and opening it up to the back, it is my opinion there will be 01:09:57
much more of that will actually enhance the community. 01:10:04
And when you get that much hard surface, we were a little reluctant at first, but as we looked at all the different factors, I 01:10:11
think it makes a lot of sense and I think it would definitely be a nicer project to live in. 01:10:17
So I don't know if that answers your question or not. 01:10:24
Got a question just to follow along on that. I asked earlier about the direction that the front doors would face. Have you 01:10:28
considered in this, I'm going to call it A5 Plex because I don't know what else to call it. Doing something where the front doors 01:10:35
open out into the drive and you've got the balconies above and people can say hello as the Amazon driver shows up. I mean, I, I 01:10:42
don't that's, that's a good question. It we do have the balconies that open up. 01:10:50
They'll be to the back and if you can look even on the sides, we have doors on the side. So you have 3 units that actually open to 01:10:57
the north and the front. 01:11:01
The other two of the five Plex opened, one to the East End and one to the West End. 01:11:06
And then on these as we're designed, there are balconies and decks that will be up on that third floor that will be open where you 01:11:12
could see some neighbors and have a lot of, we're hoping some great views out of most of them. Oh, I think the views have just 01:11:19
marvellous potential. I just. I. 01:11:26
I don't know that I would be. 01:11:34
Excited to step out my front door and to not see anything besides the dumpsters at the apartment. You will have a fence and then 01:11:37
you've got a four foot sidewalk and then you've got another 6 or 8 feet of buffer with landscape. And as we talked about trees, 01:11:46
right and and and grass is good and hopefully trees and even on our other site plan. 01:11:54
Some of those areas you were looking right into your, you only had 10 feet in between the front doors on that too. So it it's very 01:12:04
similar on that aspect compared to what we have. And the big driving force which I think is people are living there, you'll have 01:12:11
on most of these units well over 57 feet or so that. 01:12:18
Face towards the Creek, that's all going to be grass where people will be able to go out and hopefully we'll have a picnic area 01:12:26
and different things where neighbors can mingle and get to know or throw a frisbee or kids a football. It will be a large grass 01:12:32
area where everyone can enjoy it. 01:12:37
Any other questions I can answer? I have a question and and it this follows along with Commissioner Gong's question. Did you think 01:12:48
about reducing the number of units on this property to provide for more open space and green space? Well, we've got a lot of green 01:12:55
space. We do have that when you consider all the Creek, but that was considered and I think what's challenging for developers and 01:13:03
even more so for for homeowners. 01:13:10
Is the affordability. 01:13:18
So you take the price of the ground and you take all that into account and you take out 2 units. 01:13:20
And you'd still have the same setbacks you'd still have to have, you might have a little more open space on the side as you come 01:13:26
in and it just the numbers make it so it's challenging for people to afford it, particularly here in holiday. 01:13:34
And as you look at what we're against, we have apartments on every side of us. 01:13:42
And so you have to be a little bit in consideration of cost of value, what will they sell for, what will people be willing to pay? 01:13:48
And that's always a challenge. We've been doing this for 35 years and we're certainly conscious of that. And I live in holiday and 01:13:56
so it's important to me. But it's a fine line of what's affordable and when, when do you cross that line? 01:14:04
So we did consider it and we looked at it from a marketing standpoint because obviously we're doing it where we want a nice 01:14:14
project, but we also want to make money. 01:14:18
And so we looked at all those different factors. But if you look at what's around it, it's not like we've got some really, really 01:14:23
nice units all the way around it. We don't. So we have to be conscious of the price point. 01:14:30
Brad, if I may add in on there too. When you're adding more units, you're naturally going to end up with smaller units. Smaller 01:14:38
units end up being more, more affordable. When you have fewer units, your size increases, your price increases. So that's kind of 01:14:46
the the trade off with with doing smaller or fewer units, you naturally end up with larger and more expensive. 01:14:53
But I appreciate the comment that you made. I do. 01:15:04
And we certainly always look at that. 01:15:08
Any other questions for the applicant? 01:15:11
All right. Well, we've grilled you enough. We'll go ahead. No, you're good. Thank you. Appreciate your time. You bet. And just to 01:15:14
clarify, this is a public hearing, right, Brad? 01:15:18
This is not. It's not. We held the public hearing for the concept. 01:15:24
And moving forward with our new subdivision stuff, it will concept is kind of done with staff and then only preliminary will come 01:15:30
to the Planning Commission and then final goes back to staff. So that's in the in the ordinance. 01:15:37
So we we kind of went back to the former one with the concept first coming to Planning Commission and holding the planning the 01:15:46
public hearing at that point. But all the same neighbors were notified and aware of the of the project. 01:15:53
And having said that. 01:16:02
If we have people here, since this plan is not at all what we saw at the concept level, would we entertain if they want to talk to 01:16:05
us and. 01:16:09
Tell us whatever they want to tell us. 01:16:15
Do we do that? 01:16:17
That's why I'm asking. 01:16:24
So we've already had a public hearing on this. They had to go through the process. The TRC had to weigh in. 01:16:27
There's certainly an ability for, I mean. 01:16:36
They didn't get notice of public. 01:16:42
Be able to speak. You know the process is the process. 01:16:47
So my my feeling is. 01:16:53
And this is the legislature, and whether or not I think the legislature is going to be on, we're not going to get into that. 01:16:55
The process of legislature legislature is set forth and. 01:17:03
Kind of if you're looking at a balancing act, it kind of. 01:17:12
Balances it more in favor of developers at this point with the fewer public comment periods, public hearings, our legislature 01:17:15
Shocking. 01:17:21
Sorry, that was. Don't put that in the record. 01:17:27
Commissioner Prince said. Sorry, Brett. 01:17:33
What is in the code? 01:17:39
OK, Well thank you for clarifying and I think as I look through the the suggested findings on this for me personally like the only 01:17:45
thing that I. 01:17:50
Might have questioned concern around old plan versus new plan would be. 01:17:56
Does the property lines as shown on the site plan are required to address environmental and public safety? I think the public 01:18:03
safety. 01:18:07
The T shape, whatever we call this turn around shape that we see in a lot of PUD's and these type of smaller projects. 01:18:11
Absolutely complies and makes sense why they had to change it up to accommodate a big fire truck and emergency services in there. 01:18:17
My biggest concern is that all of the green space tends to be out on the Creek where it naturally exists, and we've got hardscape 01:18:26
against hardscape. 01:18:31
Surrounded by hardscape. And that's, that's, that's a tough one to soften and say, Gee, I feel really good about this because I 01:18:37
think we're perpetuating a heat island problem and. 01:18:42
But won't some of that be addressed when the applicant comes back with actual? 01:18:49
Building. 01:18:55
Like this is how this is going to look. This is what our. 01:18:58
Our design is and here's our landscape plan. Won't that come back to us? 01:19:03
Landscaping plan would not come back to the Planning Commission, but it is we have landscaping requirements in our code that is 01:19:08
compliant with water conservation. 01:19:14
There's, you know, when even the focus of Puds is to concentrate open space and create larger, more open areas that preserve 01:19:21
natural features. 01:19:27
And I think we talked a little bit before about like a variance process on this too. This would be a property that would would go 01:19:34
through a variance process anyway if. 01:19:39
For reduced setbacks and would likely be granted just based off of the Creek having. 01:19:44
A50 foot border where you can't build anything, which is a significant impact on the property, so reducing setbacks is a. 01:19:53
Pretty standard application for this, even outside of a Planning Commission approval. 01:20:02
Can we just put the trees on the roof or something then? 01:20:10
Green groups first units with grass on the roof in holiday. OK, that's right. Yeah. Like I'm all for greenscape and roof, you 01:20:14
know? 01:20:17
All right. Well, Commissioners, discussion, any other questions amongst ourselves or for city staff on this? 01:20:22
If not, if someone want to make a motion, I think, I think the thing that I'm I'm struggling with is it makes sense of itself to 01:20:28
change the plan for public safety. 01:20:33
What I'm what I think I'm having a hard time with is. 01:20:40
We knew from the outset, they knew from the outset that it was built on the Creek. There were certain zoning things for that and 01:20:46
their building space would be limited so. 01:20:51
It's I'm. 01:20:57
It feels like if they knew that that's the kind of lot this is, then then changing the setbacks because now the road has to be 01:21:01
bigger in the middle feels like it's. 01:21:07
Doubling up on on, I don't know does. 01:21:14
I'm having a little trouble saying this, but, but, but it feels like that's the that's the lot, that's what this is. And, and so 01:21:19
if we're changing the setbacks to meet this thing, why are we doing that? Why don't we just build in the buildable? So you're 01:21:25
saying like build for the lot, not for the density. Yeah, because they're entitled to 9 buildings. 01:21:31
But also it's on the Creek and both of those things have to. 01:21:38
Which of those takes precedence? To me, it's the Creek, not the number of buildings. So that's confusing to me why we're changing 01:21:43
the setbacks in order to fit the number of buildings on the lot. But we don't have a choice, in other words. 01:21:49
If they're entitled to 9 buildings and we have to consider the floodplain. 01:21:57
Our hands are tied. 01:22:04
Well, if it's found that you know it's in addresses the environmental and safety, not just the safety. 01:22:07
Right. You know, there there's a consideration from some cities I'm going to put on pontificate while you think of this over. 01:22:16
In some municipalities, when you look at land development code and protection of hazardous, hazardous spaces, floodplains, 01:22:23
earthquake zones, landslides, steep slopes. 01:22:28
Most cities will go through their entire municipality boundaries and designate greenfields. 01:22:35
Permanent open space and exact them from any type of development procedure or process. 01:22:41
Obviously, the county has never gone through that process, taking a swath of 100 feet from. 01:22:48
Banked or middle of the Creek back on either side and design that as this is a hazard. You no longer have access to this spot. You 01:22:54
know you can't count it to your density. 01:22:58
That's not something that's done in Utah. It's not done in most Western states. 01:23:03
So if that was a consideration of. 01:23:08
The legislation side of things, yes, that would be on your side of that argument for sure. 01:23:13
Yeah, we're considering the. 01:23:19
Full bandwidth of Big Cottonwood Creek and its flood potential. 01:23:21
And therefore it's not developable anyway. 01:23:26
So why should we even be using it in this density calculation? 01:23:29
That is something that this state just does not do. So in fact, that's one of the reasons why FEMA has a process by which you can 01:23:34
modify the floodplain and create developable area so that's safe for habitable spaces. 01:23:42
It leaves that door open so to speak, so they can actually go in and re landscape this whole area, channelize Big Cottonwood 01:23:52
Creek, remove all that open space and move all these homes right to the water. They could do that. 01:23:59
That option is is still available to him. 01:24:06
But rather than messing with the Creek as it is now in its natural escape, they're requesting flexibility and setbacks to move it 01:24:09
off of all of that that hazard into this north side of the law. 01:24:16
I know it doesn't answer your question or at least address your concern, but that's one of the reasons why. So here's one more 01:24:25
question. This is to see why don't we just buy a smaller fire truck? 01:24:30
Like why is the fire truck the thing that's dictating how this layout is? That's crazy, right, right. Like this was a nice little 01:24:36
thing and now it's not it's nice. It's not like it's because we have to drive a giant fire truck that why don't we just get a 01:24:44
skinnier fire truck? This is a real question. Did you you buy you buy fire trucks for the. 01:24:51
Worst case scenario, not the easy ones. 01:25:00
It's when you have to go up to the three or four stories of the new holiday hills and stuff like that. 01:25:03
And then because it's cost effective, you put your medical response on a fire truck. 01:25:09
Which would make more sense to send it on a medical unit, which some cities have done now? 01:25:15
If I have a fire at my house, I don't want skinny mini showing up, I want the whole deal. 01:25:20
I want the the big truck. 01:25:27
Chair, one other point, just to give you some context. So residential use of land has in the history of the United States and even 01:25:29
beyond, even prior to that has been the highest and best use of land is residential. It's for people. People are our greatest 01:25:36
resource, greatest asset, that's what it's for, so. 01:25:44
Our in in the state of Utah, it also favors property rights, but also favors, you know. 01:25:53
The full utilization of the highest and best use for residential right? And sometimes that's denser and that's why we air on the 01:25:59
side of, you know, instead of. 01:26:04
Eliminating units. We err on the side of giving them more units so that that's the highest and best use of property is. 01:26:10
Reside. 01:26:20
And that isn't, I think there might be cultural things changing where people don't like people anymore. 01:26:23
At least, at least it appears that way. 01:26:32
And, and some cultural norms are changing, but historically, you know, people have been the greatest asset, greatest resource. 01:26:34
And that's why it's one of the reasons that that's the way it is, in fact, when you look at these side by side. 01:26:42
Just eyeballing how much asphalt has gone around the outside in the buildings in the middle and now we've just flip-flopped them. 01:26:48
Buildings are on the outside and asphalt and we're not probably not that far off from where we started, I don't think. I mean, for 01:26:53
me, it's not a percentage thing. I think it's actually a layout thing. The layout is not nearly as good for for feeling like you 01:26:58
have neighbors. 01:27:04
But yeah, it does feel, and that does, yeah. And that comes down to design and architecture for sure. 01:27:09
Well, and I'll just I'll chime in with this and then I'm gladly invite anyone to make a motion on this. But to the developer, I 01:27:19
would strongly encourage, look for as much as you can to soften preferably with you know trees and things that are going to 01:27:26
disrupt the overwhelming amount of hardscape within the structures and the parking itself because obviously the Creek is going to 01:27:33
negate a lot of that and offset that for you. 01:27:40
So that would just be an encouragement from me personally on that, but. 01:27:48
That being said, I mean, when I look at the neighbors, I look at the zone, everything else, I mean, it's not out of line. It's 01:27:53
not. I think the parking is a challenge. I don't know how you negate that with this layout. And I'd hate to be the FedEx or UPS 01:27:58
guy that has to deliver to the top corner of that and especially if somebody decides to visit and park in the way. But that being 01:28:04
said. 01:28:10
Well, A. 01:28:18
A question I have is going back to our street and no parking, do we want to include a suggestion to the City Council with whatever 01:28:20
motion? 01:28:26
We compose that suggests that the street should be. 01:28:33
No parking all the way from Murray Holiday Road to the property boundary. Are we interested in being that? 01:28:39
Active that activist Nami, not you. Nope. OK. 01:28:47
I mean, I I would like it, but if if the fire department wants it, they certainly could. 01:28:52
Bring it up, OK? They didn't and they didn't. 01:28:58
OK. All right. 01:29:05
Well, I'm ready to make a motion then. 01:29:08
So I motion that we approve the preliminary site plan application by Brad Reynolds for 1740 E Townhomes A9 unit multifamily 01:29:11
residential development located at 4821 S 1740 E in the RM zone. Based upon the suggested findings that the requirements for 01:29:18
preliminary site plan have been substantially completed, the development complies with the minimum area required for a nine unit 01:29:26
multi family. 01:29:33
Home development in the room zone. The development complies with the General plan. Parking minimums of 18 spaces are met with 01:29:41
garage parking. Reduced setbacks on North, East and West property lines, as shown on the site plan, are required to address 01:29:47
environmental and public safety concerns. 01:29:52
Comments from the City Engineer are required to be met for final approval, subject to the comments from the City Engineer and any 01:30:00
other engineering commitment. Comments as part of the final TRC approval and that the applicant provides. CCNR specifically 01:30:08
detailing maintenance of the access lane and stormwater retention areas for final TRC approval. 01:30:16
We have a motion. Do we have a second? 01:30:26
Commissioner Vilcinski, I second that motion. All righty. We'll call for a vote. Commissioner Gong. 01:30:29
Here you start at the other end, Commissioner Cunningham. 01:30:35
I reluctantly, Commissioner Bilkinski, Commissioner Blunt, under protest, aye. 01:30:40
Commissioner Prince Aye. 01:30:47
Aye. 01:30:52
That was an I. That was an I because all of the findings are true. 01:30:54
All right. And Chair Roach also is a reluctant eye. So with that, it passes unanimously and look forward to to seeing really great 01:30:59
things happen over there. 01:31:06
Thank you. Thank you. 01:31:18
All right. And with that, we just have the last item on the agenda, the minutes. We will just go through these one by one since 01:31:21
there are four separate meetings. I can't remember who was it each. Oh goodness, right there at the top. 01:31:27
So for the commissioners that were present on April 16th, I'm not going to lie, I have no recollection. Like I remember vaguely 01:31:36
things, but that was several months ago, so. 01:31:41
Did anyone have anything that stood out to him that needed correction? 01:31:47
No. OK, so all in favor of approving April 16th minutes. Aye, aye. All right, check that one. Going to the next one. June 25th for 01:31:54
the commissioners here, for those, anything that stood out. 01:32:01
All right. And all in favor. Aye, aye, all right. And July 16th, I was not present. So I don't have to think about that when 01:32:10
anyone else find anything from those minutes I did not. 01:32:16
You guys are like that's no great. All right, all in favor say aye, aye, OK, that's mostly unanimous, it sounded like. And last 01:32:23
one, August 20th. 01:32:28
Anything on this one? I just have to comment that all of us were here for that meeting. I'm very proud of us. Everybody got the 01:32:35
attendance award that day. That is true. Was that the really short one that lasted like 20 minutes? 01:32:41
I think so. I think it was, which is awesome. 01:32:48
All right. If there's no adjustments on that, that anyone found all in favor of approving those say aye, aye. All right, that 01:32:52
sounded unanimous. And with that, that is completion of our agenda. 01:32:58
All in favor of adjournment, Aye Don, have a great night. 01:33:06
Really think. 01:33:12
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Undoubtedly have. 00:00:00
I'll swap with you. 00:00:03
We're up. We're going. 00:00:13
We're going all right. 00:00:15
Good afternoon and welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission work session. 00:00:17
We have in attendance all planning commissioners except for Commissioner Baron who will be absent today. And Carrie Ann is a 00:00:24
question mark Prince, excuse me, Karen Prince, but we have legal counsel and. 00:00:30
To city staff here to support this evening, and it looks like the first item on our agenda is the zone map amendment. 00:00:38
On Highland Drive, so is that going to be Carrier, John? That'll walk us through that. I will walk you through that one. 00:00:47
So this is a zone map amendment for 5428 S Highland Drive. A little bit of history on this property is that it was originally 2 00:00:54
parcels until 2013. The owner of those two parcels combined them into a single parcel. 00:01:02
Sold to the current owner. The current owner would like to put them back into two parcels. 00:01:11
Keep the zoning on the rear parcel that has kind of the driveway access off of Baywood that will remain at half an acre and then 00:01:18
there's a remaining I think .44 acres that fronts onto Highland Drive. 00:01:26
And that is what the reason would be applied to is just that front piece. You can see that in the narrative you have a printed out 00:01:34
copy. That's the most recent narrative that accurately reflects the requested zone for that front portion on Highland Drive. You 00:01:42
can see the existing house, the garage. They are putting the property boundary exactly where it was before. 00:01:51
The two parcels were combined. 00:02:00
The house that's on there is an older house, there's access off of Highland Drive for that house, and then the rear house is half 00:02:03
an acre. Would stay as an R121 zone and have the access from Baywood Dr. 00:02:10
There any? 00:02:18
Questions on that. I know it's kind of a different situation where it's, it will be two parcels and just the front portion of the 00:02:19
parcel on Highland Dr. would be rezoned and the R210 zone was selected based off of the Highland Dr. master plan. So it does match 00:02:27
the guidance in that. Do we have a zone map in the packet that we can zoom there should be or I also John, I have a tab pulled up 00:02:34
with the zone map on it. 00:02:42
If you want to go to that. 00:02:50
It's not. 00:03:00
So this is one of four homes along Highland Drive in that area that doesn't have the. 00:03:07
Waldorf, look. 00:03:13
I think so. I haven't driven down that section of Highland Dr. There's because a lot of those properties, they are larger parcels 00:03:16
that the backside kind of backs up to Highland Drive. I just drove by, it is fenced. It's a fenced on a Highland. 00:03:25
I think there's the there's an opening where the driveway is, yes. So it's not the really cute little house that's been well 00:03:35
preserved. OK, that was when I was a little worried about it is still a cute house. 00:03:41
Just less visible. 00:03:49
OK. Is there any just anything that you can think of that would? 00:03:51
Next year's look at the general plan? Change the zoning. 00:03:58
So we'd have to do this again. 00:04:04
Right. And that's what with a rezone to prevent it from then coming back again and having to go through the same process it was, 00:04:06
this is what the general plan guidance is. So it is then in line with that just rezone it to the recommended R210 at this point 00:04:15
rather than the applicant originally was thinking like an R115. 00:04:23
Which works for the property but isn't necessarily in line with what the the Highland Dr. master plan. Can we zoom out on the? 00:04:32
Map a little bit here. 00:04:42
Yeah, you can see a lot of the. 00:04:45
So across the street is the Great Orthodox Church. And then you have neighborhood commercial slightly to the north. There is 00:04:49
another commercial property slightly to the South. So this is just this little pocket of properties that are a little bit larger 00:04:56
in size. So this whole section, I'm sorry to interrupt this whole section from basically the nursing home all the way to the R18 00:05:03
PUD right there, that's all. 00:05:11
One right now, right, right. So we're going to carve out just one little square of R120 in there and then the other. 00:05:19
Homes strategy is to catch up because it's planned that way for the Highland corridor, right? So any properties that do have 00:05:32
frontage on Highland Dr. they could rezone in accordance with the Highland Dr. master plan. 00:05:39
And rezoning typically is done at the discretion of the property owner when they request that, when they apply for that, the city 00:05:47
generally does not just come in and rezone properties. So it's the property owner would request it. We go to the general plan that 00:05:54
gives us the guidance and that's how zone recommendation is made. And if I remember the HDMP said something and I can't remember 00:06:02
the exact language of the HDMP, but it was something to the effect of. 00:06:09
Not disrupting existing neighborhoods and. 00:06:17
I can't remember the exact. Anybody else recently look at the HDMP just for grins and giggles and read over that? Remember what 00:06:23
I'm talking about? I haven't pulled up in a tab too. John can click over to it. It's that specific section in. 00:06:29
The general plan that refers to the Highland Dr. Master plan and then the Highland Dr. Master plan as well, so. 00:06:37
Both of those are there. The guidance for rezoning is just that, not any new room. 00:06:43
Zones be established in that section. 00:06:51
A lot of things that we're seeing now with redevelopment too is that there's either townhomes or kind of a single family style 00:06:55
home that could have a second unit behind it. There's there are ways to create that, but with the square footage of the property, 00:07:04
you can see on the second page where to best utilize all of the the land that would be on that front portion. 00:07:12
At the most ideal is three single family homes. 00:07:22
Of course, whoever owns that property can develop it in accordance with the RT zone, but I. 00:07:26
The three single family units is the best use of all the. 00:07:34
And to be clear, in R210. 00:07:40
Allows for two units for every 10,000 square feet. 00:07:43
Right, two attached unit or two attached units for 10,000 square feet or it allows for single family detached as well and each 00:07:48
unit that's detached is 6250 square feet. 00:07:55
So you don't have to do attached units, they don't have to be duplexes, you can still do single family homes there. 00:08:03
But just trying to do math in my head because it's been a day 2 * 2 to 10, and then there's four 10s in an acre, right? So we're 00:08:11
talking about 8 in an acre of property, 8 potential attached homes if R210 was extended to the house next door on either side. And 00:08:19
they bought all those up and said here we want to put a row along Kentucky Ave. or whatever, you know what I'm saying? 00:08:27
Just making sure I understand the zoning math for me right? If if a if there was more than. 00:08:36
A acre there, or if there is an acre, then that is. 00:08:43
Or. 00:08:51
Yeah. And then going back to the HDMP language that John just had up, didn't it say something about 5 per acre in there? 00:08:54
Right, no more than 5 per acre. So this would be? 00:09:02
By that three more units than that if in my hypothetical scenario the neighbors on either side decided to go R210 and someone came 00:09:07
in and said I want to build this here. 00:09:13
Right, there's. 00:09:20
The. 00:09:24
What I was looking at the area with the Highland Dr. master plan versus the properties, most of those properties front on the 00:09:27
other, they would have to do a similar kind of scheme where they'd subdivide, keep half an acre in the protected zone and then 00:09:34
whatever is remaining would be on the front. So it would require then somebody purchasing some of those fronting parcels on 00:09:41
Highland Drive and then combining enough of them to get up. 00:09:49
An acre. 00:09:56
I'm just, like I said, trying to make sure I understand the future vision of 20 years from now. What does it look like when three 00:10:00
homes potentially are built on this plot and the neighbors say, well, I lost my view and Highlands a mess anyway. And then they 00:10:06
say, hey, how much do you want to give me for this? And they sell and they say, great, now we can put six or seven or we'll buy 00:10:11
you and the neighbors and put, you know, eight more in there. You know what I'm saying? 00:10:17
I'm sorry, I'm just trying again, just looking in the looking in the crystal ball. I'm not saying that's going to happen. What I'm 00:10:25
more concerned about this is an aside, as you know. 00:10:31
If you put all that on Highland Dr. here's a road that's just going to get busier and busier, and to have cars trying to pull off 00:10:36
of Highland drive into residential is a nightmare already. And this is just going to exacerbate that issue. But it is consistent 00:10:43
with the zoning that the city. 00:10:49
Wants there. 00:10:56
And then I just hope when we get no one, I don't think anyone's using the driveway now because they're accessing it off Baywood 00:10:58
through the back. Now she's going to have to access it off island, which I think she's going to learn to hate real quickly. But I 00:11:05
don't know. It's up to her. But then if you rezone and at some point they put two or three or whatever they can put in there. 00:11:11
Getting those people on and off a Highland Drive at that particular point is going to be very, very disruptive to traffic, right? 00:11:19
And it's likely then if you're looking at that kind of access typically. 00:11:26
We'd a lot of development that I've seen is a shared driveway. So you have a single access point that three houses are sharing and 00:11:33
that's pretty typical of some of those new developments off of Highland is having a sequel driveway. 00:11:41
Who owns Highland Drive at that point? 00:11:49
You don't or the state? No, it's the city owned. City owned. OK, all right. 00:11:54
And it is. Is that 2 lanes John? 00:12:00
One line in your direction. 00:12:04
At this location, I think no, there's two lanes, there's two. 00:12:08
Yeah, 2 with no sidewalk. 00:12:13
Did the. 00:12:17
Traffic engineer Yeah, there's a sidewalk there. 00:12:19
Did Jared take a look at this? Is he part of the TRC? Yes. 00:12:23
So what you're not seeing now is I don't know if you remember last year or the year before, we have a grant to improve Highland 00:12:27
Dr. dramatically. That hasn't happened yet. 00:12:31
Because we didn't get the grant or because we're changing, some of the grant aspects have changed. 00:12:37
It's still in process, but that holds this whole stretch of Highland Drive. The cross section will will change. 00:12:43
That's right. Is this the area that's slated for one lane and bike lanes and sidewalks? I don't think that's going to happen. 00:12:50
OK. Mm-hmm. 00:12:58
Isn't the whole point of the General Plan and the Highland Dr. Master plan? 00:13:00
To ultimately increase density along that corridor. 00:13:06
To a point, yes. That's why you have 55 units an acre maximum. 00:13:10
For long. 00:13:15
Other questions on this one? 00:13:20
All right, look forward to that. 00:13:23
Discussion and what the applicant has to say. And then on the next one on here we have action item number 2, the 1740 E. 00:13:25
Holiday townhomes. 00:13:34
Site plan. 00:13:38
Hey, so on this one, we initially saw the conceptual plan for this in July, July 16th. 00:13:42
The applicant came back with a revised site plan that has a central access with a hammerhead to facilitate turnaround in order to 00:13:52
have that central. 00:13:56
Access that was recommended by the fire Marshall and the city engineer pushed the setbacks a little bit smaller on all sides of 00:14:03
the property. 00:14:08
So moving it away from Big Cottonwood Creek closer to the multifamily on the north side, the South side is largely a road access. 00:14:13
There's another multi family property that's stuck back behind that kind of tucked in and then I don't remember what was on the 00:14:20
east side it's. 00:14:27
Kind of a smaller board property border there. 00:14:35
But I think it may be a single family property. So moved it back. The there is an allowance referenced in our code for site plan 00:14:39
modifications for public safety and for environmental concerns. So where we have the Creek that's there and public safety access, 00:14:48
making sure that EMS and fire services can reach all of those units, that's where those setbacks were reduced. 00:14:57
Did we resolve Weather 1740 as a public or private road? 00:15:09
It is public, but it is a smaller access because all these documents show this as a private route again. 00:15:14
It's still on there as a private road, but in the narrative it's as. 00:15:23
Public, but in the in the. 00:15:28
It all says private, so it's very confusing. 00:15:32
Yeah. And that's what we would make sure is clear on the final site plan. The Planning Commission can make sure that that's noted 00:15:35
in the findings is that for the final that that road needs to be clarified. It does have a green street sign on it. So that's 00:15:44
where it's public, but it's largely an access Rd. for the multi family development and this property. 00:15:53
And also I had a question about. 00:16:07
When we do the calculations for the density there, that includes 100 year floodplain, even though you can't build on top of it. 00:16:09
Right. 00:16:18
Kind of seems silly, but. 00:16:21
The ordinance allows it, right? So that right, the number is still correct, even though there's a big chunk of that South side 00:16:23
that could not be built on because it kind of looked like. 00:16:29
The new plan. 00:16:34
What we thought we were seeing in the old plan look much nicer than what we're seeing in this plan, because now there's no open 00:16:36
space. Essentially, it's just. 00:16:40
The floodplain, right? And that would be expected since you can't build into floodplain anyway. You'd see a similar situation with 00:16:45
any type of development near a floodplain. That is a common situation for a variance where you'd have a variance for setbacks. So 00:16:53
things get pushed away because your land and the area that you can build on is limited by a natural feature. 00:17:01
Can I just clarify to make sure I understand this? So we saw the preliminary was the preliminary we saw back in July concept, 00:17:12
conceptual? 00:17:16
But now the setbacks are smaller. So we're tonight we're deciding if that's. 00:17:23
Fine. Is there a point where we say sorry, 9 units don't fit, we don't want to change that. I mean is that an option? We can 00:17:29
either say this new sub X are fine, it seems like public safety, environmental blah blah. Or it's 9 units don't fit, don't change 00:17:35
the setbacks, do fewer units. Is that the other option? 00:17:41
Not with the entitled right of how many units are allowed for the amount of land. 00:17:47
So the total amount of units is entitled, right and we have allowances within our code to reduce that backs for public safety and 00:17:54
environmental concerns. So you do have the capability to reduce this. 00:18:02
So where is the leeway? 00:18:14
On our part, So what I think, let me clarify just a little bit. You're at odds with the TRC. 00:18:17
Right now, TRC. 00:18:23
Representation from the safety coordination side. Engineering and fire. 00:18:26
Was not going to recommend your previous concept layout. 00:18:32
Access was a concern, too many turns for fire trucks getting around the corners in there, and so in order to get a plan that could 00:18:37
be recommended by emergency access, this is the layout that they came to or derived to from with the developer. 00:18:45
What that requires is a reduction in set back on that north side. 00:18:54
Of what the RM zone requires. 00:18:59
In the ordinance, it stays that the Planning Commission can reduce setbacks if there's something that's in conflict. It has to do 00:19:02
with safety and health, health, safety and welfare for the site development site. 00:19:08
To not approve a reduction of setbacks in lieu of reducing the number of units. 00:19:16
That would put the city at odds for the allowance for density because they could just go back to the original plan. 00:19:22
You would have to consider an A recommendation from the TRC that doesn't. 00:19:29
Recommend that layout and. 00:19:35
Oh boy. 00:19:38
So right now this is. 00:19:39
The layout here doesn't isn't look as nice and does it's not as attractive as what you previously saw. But as far as safety and 00:19:42
access for a very deep lot getting all the way down there with an emergency access for another. 00:19:48
Who knows how many individuals, fire and emergency access emergency services were concerned, even with just a minor slip and fall, 00:19:57
getting in there quickly. 00:20:01
And apart from other some other things, snow storage and such. 00:20:08
But we the meeting which this was presented as said in the minutes that we're reviewing for tonight. So I. 00:20:13
Just handily looked at them. We did say that whatever was went forward. Had to meet with the fire marshals. 00:20:21
Requirements and the engineering items that would come up so. 00:20:30
Are we really not in agreement? But in order to do that they had to shift so all the units so far north it encroaches into that 00:20:37
set back area. So yes, they did meet with the with the engineer and the fire department to get a layout that's acceptable. 00:20:45
But that forced him to move into a set back. That's not required. That's required of the room zone. 00:20:53
That makes sense. 00:21:00
So it was a catch 22, Yeah, before the roadway access being on the north side and on the east side was essentially their set back 00:21:02
because I think it's is it 15? 00:21:09
So they went down from 15 to 10 and some of those points are a little bit further. The closest points are 10 feet. There's a 00:21:19
little bit of variation on the on the building designs. But because that road was not is no longer on the perimeter serving as 00:21:26
their set back and it had to be moved into the area where their buildings were going to be. They had to then move the buildings 00:21:34
out to the north and a little to the east for that hammerhead. 00:21:41
So are we then? 00:21:49
Said are we suggesting this change to the setbacks or were approving that we're being asked for that I'm now I've now I've gotten 00:21:53
lost in the weeds of what in the world we're doing. Yeah. So you are approved. This is their preliminary site plan and you are 00:22:01
being asked to approve or not approve this type. Thank you. 00:22:09
Is this already approved for APUD? 00:22:17
It's not a beauty. This is not a beauty, OK? It's just a permitted site plan in the room zone. 00:22:20
I'm just not clear on what basis we would not approve it. 00:22:27
We can't say this is too many homes on this site. We can't say that, right? We can't say you have to increase your setbacks 00:22:33
because then they won't get approval from the TRC, right? So it, it just feels like our hands are tied here. 00:22:41
And after all, the set back that we're worried about. 00:22:54
Mainly on the north is a chunky park parking lot, right? It's not a house or grass or backyard. It's a junky parking lot. 00:22:56
And a pretty large piece of parking lot. Yeah, yeah. 00:23:05
Yeah. And then in an ideal world, there could have been some easement agreements with that property owner for access, but you 00:23:17
know, that does not always work out. 00:23:21
But a lash? 00:23:27
And sprinklers are an option for fire suppression, but not for emergency paramedics or something. It doesn't. And that was another 00:23:29
concern that the Fire Marshall had. There's also garbage concerns. And because it is a public St. having a space where the public 00:23:37
can turn around on a narrow Rd. So having all those pieces incorporated into this development. 00:23:46
Was important for both. 00:23:55
Public safety and emergency, yeah. Considering there is the heat island just north of that on that side of the property, would it 00:23:58
be appropriate to request more or require more? 00:24:04
Free landscaping. Along that I think you could suggest it. 00:24:12
I don't know where you put any landscaping on this plan. There's no landscaping on this, right? Yeah, it's. 00:24:18
Yeah, all the stuff we heard about in the 1st. 00:24:25
Right. Yeah, it's all yeah, in the floodplain. 00:24:30
Legally required ones by the. 00:24:33
Any other questions on #2? 00:24:40
This is not specific to their plan but just in general with 100 year flood plan. 00:24:42
Can it not be disturbed agree during construction either or it can be they just have to restore it in some way or what? It just 00:24:49
has to be there. Well you you can disturb within banks of the floodplain with special permitting from the state, which they 00:24:55
probably aren't really interested in pursuing. So they would be they would. 00:25:01
Be careful to stay up on the front. 00:25:07
I mean, ideally if you really wanted to, if you had unlimited amounts of funds, yes, you would disrupt that bank side, increase 00:25:11
the floodway elevation, and then go apply to FEMA for a flood map letter of amendment so you're no longer in the floodplain. 00:25:19
I also I mean. 00:25:29
Based on recent changes, is 100 year flood really still 100 year flood on this? 00:25:31
We think. 00:25:38
I don't know if it's entirely accurate, but we still have to go buy the FEMA floodplain maps. 00:25:40
Yeah. 00:25:46
Thank you. 00:25:50
Right. And then the last item on there is just minute meeting minutes for four meetings. So we'll go through those. 00:25:52
All right. So if there's no other questions at this time on the agenda items, I think we can go ahead and close the work meeting. 00:26:05
And then do any commissioners need a quick recess before we jump right into the official meeting? A quick recess has been called 00:26:11
for. We will be back in 2 minutes. 00:26:17
And. 00:27:06
Just want some sugar down there. I got some caramels in here, they're delicious. 00:28:23
Yeah, she knows what's up. 00:28:27
Digging. 00:28:32
Bless you. 00:28:39
We're in trouble after Halloween. 00:28:45
I don't have any little kids anymore. We're gonna have to steal Angela's. 00:28:49
All right, John, we set. 00:29:07
All right. 00:29:12
Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission, October 1st, 2024. In attendance we have all commissioners 00:29:14
except Commissioner Barrant and Legal Counsel and both city staff. And we have 3 items on our agenda. The 1st is a public hearing 00:29:21
and then two action items. And before we get started with any of these meetings, we do have an opening statement that we read to 00:29:28
the public and I've asked Commissioner Gong if she will do that for us. 00:29:34
The City of Holiday Planning Commission is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special 00:29:43
studies. Make recommendations to the City Council on proposed zoning map and ordinance changes. 00:29:48
And improve conditional uses into subdivisions. 00:29:54
The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications, rather acts on applications as they are submitted. 00:29:57
Commissioners do not meet with applicants except that publicly noticed meetings. 00:30:03
Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda where the location, the nature of the neighborhood, existing structures 00:30:07
and uses related to the proposed change are noted. 00:30:11
Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff. 00:30:16
The City's general plan, zoning ordinance and other reports by all verbal and written comments and by evidence submitted, all of 00:30:21
which are part of the public record. 00:30:25
All right. Thank you very much. 00:30:31
And with that, we will roll into our first item on the agenda. We will ask city staff to come up and walk us through this zone 00:30:35
zone map amendment before us at 5428 Highland. 00:30:42
OK. 00:30:59
All right, first item on the agenda. This is a zone map amendment requested from the existing zone of R121 to R210. The property 00:31:01
is located at 5428 S Highland Drive. 00:31:09
The unique feature on this request is that the applicant is requesting to only rezone the front portion on Highland Dr. of this 00:31:19
property. 00:31:23
History for the property is that it was 2 parcels prior to 2013. Those two parcels were purchased by the owner of the parcel of 00:31:31
the Baywood parcel on the back. They bought the front one and then combined them into one single parcel. 00:31:39
The current owner wants to now divide them back how they were and then assign the appropriate zoning for each parcel. So the 00:31:49
Baywood property that has access off of Baywood Dr. 00:31:55
Would retain an R121 zone and then the front portion which is I believe it was .4. 00:32:02
.43 acres would be rezoned to R210. That zone was selected based off of the Highland Dr. master plan Which. 00:32:11
Calls for density that is no more than 5 units per acre, so about .25 or sorry, 2.5 units per half acre. 00:32:24
The. 00:32:36
Total square footage on that portion is. 00:32:39
I have this highlighted on here. 00:32:45
Maybe not. 00:32:52
The square footage on the R2 zone could be divided up in a couple of different ways. 00:32:55
If the property owner in the future would like to redevelop that as is, they. 00:33:01
Just want to leave the house that's existing there, but potentially the R2 zone would enable either. 00:33:07
Attached unit with two units in it and a single family detached house or would have could enable 3 detached single family homes on 00:33:16
it. At the point in time that any future redevelopment would occur, there would be a. 00:33:24
Building permit and access, all those kinds of issues that are addressed off of Highland Drive. The reason for higher densities on 00:33:32
Highland Drive is because of it serving as an arterial Rd. It has two lanes on it and. 00:33:39
With the uses around there on the north, there are some higher densities and the South also has higher densities. This is kind of 00:33:48
a unique pocket of lower density in segment B of the Highland Dr. master plan. 00:33:54
The Highland Dr. master plan does state that our M zones are not appropriate, but other zones are are open for rezoning in that 00:34:02
segment. 00:34:07
And just a little context on the zone that Mister Chairlink has pulled up there is the Greek Orthodox Church is directly across 00:34:14
the street. There's commercial properties on each side of the Greek Orthodox Church and then a pocket of those single family homes 00:34:21
all zoned as R121. 00:34:28
Majority of those have frontage on other properties or other kind of that interior neighborhood with the back up to Highland 00:34:36
Drive. I think there's probably two or three of those that front onto Highland Dr. directly, not very many that have frontage on 00:34:43
Highland Drive. 00:34:50
I outlined a scenario in the staff report about kind of the how many properties could potentially do something similar where they 00:34:59
portion off a portion onto Highland Drive. I think it's 3 or 4 properties could do a similar type of thing, but just because of 00:35:07
how those the size of the existing properties, how they're laid out. 00:35:15
Would require some coordination between property owners if they were ever to. 00:35:24
Expand to a larger size. 00:35:29
Highland Drive is also a transit route, UTA 220. I'm not sure where those transit stop locations are, but that does serve as a 00:35:32
main transit arterial. 00:35:38
So if there's any questions for me, I can answer those and otherwise I can have the applicant come up and present. 00:35:45
Their their application. 00:35:55
When this parcel was two separate properties, what was the zoning? 00:35:57
When it was 2 separate ones, I think it was still all under our 121 because there wasn't a rezone process that that happened to 00:36:04
when those were subdivided. 00:36:09
OK. And just while we've got the zone map up before we switch gears on it, could we just zoom out? I'm just curious how many other 00:36:16
R2 zones? 00:36:20
There are within. 00:36:24
Scope of this location along Highland there, so it looks like there's the ones that were built down on the corner. 00:36:28
So that's the corner of 5600. There's R210 directly across. There are some on the front of that. That's kind of a unique 00:36:36
development where some of those were R2 and then some are RM. The ones that are on Highland Dr. are zoned as RM. Is that correct, 00:36:42
John? 00:36:49
So the ones their backyard faces Highland Drive, but they retained an RM zone and then part of that development was R210. 00:36:58
RM for the property that's on the north. There's some more S that our R210. 00:37:08
And then? 00:37:14
On the Northside of those subject property. 00:37:16
I think there's some R1. 00:37:19
And RM. 00:37:22
So kind of a mix room there. 00:37:24
On both sides. 00:37:30
There's a neighborhood commercial that's. 00:37:35
On the corner. 00:37:39
And then a little pocket of R18. 00:37:42
So aside from that grouping of room, there's really not any R2 S along Highland until you get down to the intersection. 00:37:45
Right, OK. 00:37:52
All right. Thank you. 00:37:56
With that, we'll invite the applicant up. 00:37:58
My name is Ashley Wooley, I live at 4010 S Cumberland Dr. in holiday First. I want to thank Harry Marsh and the other staff for 00:38:07
guiding me through this process and preparing the staff report for this evening. And thank you to each one of you for volunteering 00:38:14
your time to be involved in our city government. 00:38:21
I am applying to rezone the front half of a property at 5428 S Highland Drive to bring it into compliance with the Highland Dr. 00:38:28
master plan. 00:38:32
This property has two complete residences sitting back-to-back on a single parcel, one facing east toward Highland Drive and one 00:38:37
facing West toward Baywood Dr. This is because a decade ago, the former owner consolidated the two parcels into a single parcel. I 00:38:44
purchased the property four years ago and lived in the Baywood house and used the home on Highland Drive as an accessory dwelling 00:38:51
unit. 00:38:57
I would now like to so our family has recently moved to a different part of holiday and I would like to undo that consolidation so 00:39:06
that I can sell the Baywood house. 00:39:11
But keep the Highland Dr. House. And the reason for wanting to keep it is because it is a beautiful, well preserved 1900 and 20s 00:39:16
Arts and Crafts style home and I've put significant resources into restoring and preserving it. 00:39:23
In the four years that I've owned it. 00:39:31
The reason I'm here this evening is because that original Highland Dr. parcel is slightly too small for the current zone of R121, 00:39:33
so with the advice of the planning office, I'm requesting that it be rezoned to R210IN accordance with the Highland Dr. master 00:39:41
plan. To be clear, I'm not proposing any new development or changes to the use of any property. 00:39:48
To answer a few questions that I heard raised during the work session, several commissioners were wondering if this was a historic 00:39:56
home. It is not designated as such, as far as I know. I looked into it when we purchased the property four years ago. As far as I 00:40:02
understand it, it would be eligible for that designation, but nobody has ever applied for it. And when we purchased the property 00:40:07
as a family with young kids, the cost benefit analysis just didn't work for us at that point to go through all of the process of 00:40:13
getting historic. 00:40:19
Nation, it didn't seem that there would be sufficient benefit for us at that time. That's something that we can look into in the 00:40:25
future and would be interested in doing. If anyone would like to know more about that property, I put together a little photo 00:40:29
album. 00:40:33
Since the agenda is short tonight and I don't want to take too much time, but I just want to point out it's only 5 pages. I don't 00:40:39
know what the appropriate procedure would be. I'll give it to Kerry and if anybody wants to look at it, they can. One highlight of 00:40:44
the home is the living room. It's got it used. It's it's a, it's a time machine. 00:40:50
Back to the 1920s, you step into the living room and has original windows with original glass, original woodwork, original 00:40:55
hardwood floor, original hardware lath and plaster walls with original paint and stenciling that's appropriate to the time period, 00:41:01
and you just get this beautiful doorknob that's on the front door. It's just stunning. 00:41:07
So that's that's an answer to that question about the the nature of the property. It is not on a designation, but in my view it 00:41:15
has architectural and aesthetic value and could be on a designation if we were to pursue that. 00:41:23
There were Commissioner Cunningham was expressing a truth which is that access from Highland Drive to that property is difficult. 00:41:32
We have never had, well at one point we had someone living there full time for a short period of time, but it's been used as an 00:41:37
Adu. 00:41:41
There is no one currently living there. We are going to be renovating the bathroom this fall. We don't have any plans for anyone 00:41:46
to live there full time anytime in the future. It could happen, but that's not our that's not how we've been using it and that's 00:41:52
not how we intend to use it right now. 00:41:58
So. 00:42:06
Again, we we don't intend to develop this property. If we did, we would have to get site plan approval and go through all those 00:42:10
other procedures and that would be the time to talk about increased density and things. We have no intention of going down that 00:42:17
road right now. In fact, the reason that we are doing this is to. 00:42:24
Preserve that special little place. 00:42:31
Rather than selling the property as it is, as one property where someone else might come in and tear it down and build a bunch of 00:42:36
homes, we're wanting to preserve that little piece of our history. 00:42:41
So that's it for me. I'm happy to answer any other questions that you might have. 00:42:47
I have just one quick question. So the decision to go to R210, was that on the advice of city staff or was that OK? 00:42:52
I had originally talked to them and in our initial conversations they had said maybe it are 110 or 115. So I had originally 00:43:02
submitted the application with that. But then after they looked into it more, they came back to me and said we actually think that 00:43:08
our 210 would be more consistent with the master plan. So that's what we'd recommend. So yes. 00:43:14
I appreciate that, Commissioners, any other questions for the applicant at this time? 00:43:22
All right. We'll go ahead and have you sit down for us for a few minutes here and then we will open our public hearing up. 00:43:25
Looks like we have some people here tonight that want to, might want to speak on this before you come up to the podium. We would 00:43:32
ask or when you come up to the podium, we would ask that you state your name and address for the record. And also try and keep 00:43:39
your remarks to roughly 3 minutes or less and try to avoid restating any comments made by other members of the public that might 00:43:45
have gone before you. And with that, we'll go ahead and open it up to anyone that would like to come up and speak on this now. 00:43:52
Once. Twice. 00:44:04
Nobody's here, nobody wants. OK, fair enough. Well then with that, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing. And since there's 00:44:06
no additional comments to work through, we'll turn to commissioners. And I've asked Commissioner Prince if she'd kind of lead us 00:44:12
in the discussion on this one. Just before you start, actually, Commissioner Cunningham, you're on the next one. Sorry, throwing 00:44:18
you on the spot there. But. And Commissioner Gong, just before we start, we've got a family connection, so I'm going to recuse 00:44:24
myself from this vote. So. 00:44:30
Good luck. 00:44:36
Ashley, I love you. 00:44:38
Fair enough, Commissioner Cunningham, I think we talked about everything there is to talk about. 00:44:43
Go ahead and make a motion if no one's supposed to doing that. 00:44:51
Try and make a motion out of what staff gave us here and then. So I make a motion. We forward recommendation of the City Council 00:44:56
to approve. 00:45:01
An application by Ashley Wooley to amend the holiday zoning map for .45. Is that correct .45? 00:45:06
4-5 or .43. 00:45:15
Yeah. So it's .43, correct? 00:45:19
So .43. 00:45:24
4/4 OK .443 acres of land located at 5428 S Highland Drive from R121 to R210 based on the following findings. A. The proposed 00:45:26
amendment is consistent with the goals, injectors and policies of the General Plan BE. The proposed amendment is harmonious with 00:45:35
the overall character of existing development of the vicinity. 00:45:45
See that there's been no public. 00:45:55
Identification of adverse effect of abutting properties. 00:45:58
And indeed, there's an adequacy of facilities and services intended to serve the subject property, including roadways, Parks and 00:46:04
Recreation facilities, police and Fire Protection, school storm drain drainage systems, environmental hazard mitigation measures, 00:46:10
water supply and wastewater and refuge collection. 00:46:16
This is Commissioner Prince. I'll second that motion. All right, We have a motion and it's been seconded. We'll call for a vote. 00:46:24
Commissioner Prince Aye. Commissioner Vaughn Aye. Commissioner Cunningham, Aye. And Chair Roach. 00:46:31
Will vote aye. 00:46:40
And therefore it does pass to the applicant. I would advise getting in touch with the Holiday Historical Commission. 00:46:44
I don't know if she heard me. She's she's she's off. That's OK. If city staff will make that recommendation and provide her with 00:46:54
who she could contact, that would be great. And pass the book up. Yes, yes. 00:47:00
Do you want me to pass that up now? Do you want to after? OK. 00:47:08
All right. And with that, we have an action item Next up on the agenda here for 1740 E Holiday Townhomes. And this is for the 00:47:12
permitted use preliminary and final review. And we'll invite city staff to come back up and walk us through this one. 00:47:22
OK. Second item here is for a permitted use site plan in the room zone at a preliminary level. Address is 4821 S, 1740 E This is a 00:47:37
site that we reviewed for conceptual site plan July 16th and they have now come back. 00:47:48
For preliminary receiving feedback from the Fire Marshall, from the city engineer, and from planning staff. 00:48:01
So. 00:48:09
The size of their property allows for 9 units and two parking spaces for their proposed use of three bedroom units. So those 00:48:11
require 2 spaces. Those will be in garage parking spaces. The original site plan had access going around the perimeter on the 00:48:19
north side and east side of the property. 00:48:26
The fire Marshall and city engineer both had concerns with how that access was. 00:48:36
Was shown on there concerns with public safety and environmental with the Big Cottonwood Creek that is there and how much pavement 00:48:42
there was. So there's different aspects with both the amount of payment garbage access, public works access, having a turn around 00:48:50
for public since 1740 E as a public road and. 00:48:58
Then also emergency services. The original concept plan had two units that were going to be on fire sprinklers which would have 00:49:06
met. 00:49:10
The requirement for fire, but with other emergency services getting back in there to access some of those units that were a little 00:49:15
bit further away and not being able to make turning radius with fire trucks or other emergency vehicles, that is where the fire 00:49:21
Marshall. 00:49:27
Worked with the developer to create an access that is central on the site because of the floodplain. 00:49:35
With Big Cottonwood Creek, the the property is pretty limited in where development can take place where structures can be built. 00:49:44
For that central access with a hammerhead turn around in it, the buildings had to be readjusted in their placement. With adjusting 00:49:53
their placement and putting that access down the middle of the property, it pushed those buildings out to the. 00:50:01
Northside and slightly to the east side as well. 00:50:09
Neighboring property on the north is ARM multifamily development. Also their parking and their dumpsters are right there on that 00:50:14
side of the parking lot. 00:50:19
The previous concept development was, I mean, the developers preferred it, he said. You know, it's a little bit nicer having all 00:50:26
of those units that were facing the Creek in kind of a central court, but when it comes to a public safety issue, then that's 00:50:32
where it had to be readjusted So that preliminary plan is presented. 00:50:38
With that central access that you can see pushing those units and now all of the garages will be off of that central access. It 00:50:45
then puts the front doors of the units on. 00:50:52
Five of those units on the larger building on the Northside. 00:51:00
And. 00:51:05
But there is adequate turn around there space for public turn around and for emergency service turn around. 00:51:07
The Planning Commission does have the ability to approve those kinds of adjustments on setbacks with your on a site plan when 00:51:14
there are issues with environmental concerns or public safety concerns. So that's what's being brought before the Planning 00:51:23
Commission today for preliminary review and approval. Any questions for staff before we have the applicant come up? 00:51:31
To help me just understand on the South side of this property that's up against the canal, with the change of the layout from what 00:51:41
was originally approved, is this going to require additional? 00:51:47
Birmingham and Earth to be brought in to keep everything high enough and level up out of that. Like I mean, it is basically going 00:51:55
to make the canal jut up to a wall to accommodate this this change versus what there would have been before. 00:52:02
I don't believe so. 00:52:11
So you have a retaining wall which is 4 inches tall. It's a curb. 00:52:15
OK. 00:52:22
So no, there's not going to be a wall. 00:52:23
I'm just curious whether that was going to look like on the Creek side. So 4 inches. So you can see here. I'll try to highlight it 00:52:26
4343.2 top back of curve at the bottom here and 4330434324 which is the middle of this turn around parking area, which is not much 00:52:33
of a difference. 00:52:39
OK. 00:52:47
I have a question for when we. 00:52:49
Go ahead and and, and act on this. Whatever form our motion takes. Do we have to specifically address the set back or can we 00:52:53
simply say we approve? 00:53:00
Don't approve. Suggest continuing this plan. 00:53:07
You can reference the staff report if you want to be specific. The section of code that's outlined in that is 13.08 point 08/01 00:53:12
A&C and then 3D. It's in the third paragraph here. 00:53:19
If you want to reference it specifically, I mean does it need you can just say following staff. 00:53:27
Recommendation or the TRC recommendation as presented? OK, All right. Thank you. 00:53:33
As far as parking spaces are met with garage parking. So is there no visitor parking in this plan from what I'm saying, OK. 00:53:39
So park down the street, walk on the sidewalk all the way around to get to where you're going. Got it? OK. 00:53:50
They plan on maybe we can ask that to the applicant, but I think they planned on a couple. 00:53:56
And these being stalls, these pavers. 00:54:02
I'm not sure if that changed. Yeah, OK, well then I probably should get the applicant up here. 00:54:06
Oh, I have one more question for city staff. I apologize. 00:54:15
I'm remembering that this street 1740 E what other private or public with. 00:54:21
Public signage but listed as private on our documents. 00:54:28
I'm I don't remember if you can do parking along the side of that street or not because there's a wall at one point. 00:54:32
Yeah, we looked at this in our TRC meeting. It's it has green signage. It's a public St. It's been maintained as a public street. 00:54:40
Is that right? So, but I think that there's no parking on one side of it. In fact, I would be surprised if. 00:54:49
Fire Marshall recommends painting some of that curb red because you're right, there is a wall that's built into the asphalt pretty 00:54:59
far. 00:55:03
Which makes me wonder if that's something that we should consider as part of our recommendations. 00:55:07
Sure, yes, yeah. If you have a consideration of maybe no parking along that first section because it's off of this drawing, maybe 00:55:14
I'll bring up the Salt Lake County assessor signed up too, if you want to go to their map where you can see the property lines. 00:55:22
Well, let's see, I can just bring this aerial up. 00:55:33
Looking at this photo, it might help. 00:55:37
It's going to get grainy. 00:55:40
But it would be. You can see where this driveway for Linden Apartments is located between the driveway and their entrance. 00:55:42
Likely should be recommended that that is no parking painted red. Mm-hmm. 00:55:51
Further north I think they all use it currently as on street parking. 00:55:56
All of these residents do. 00:56:02
But the West side, where there's the wall? 00:56:04
That's working. That's a no parking currently. OK, thank you. I don't think there's enough space for people to park there. Well, 00:56:09
that doesn't mean people won't park. It doesn't mean that people won't park in your situation because I don't there's not a curb 00:56:13
there. 00:56:17
It's just a the end of asphalt and the ball. 00:56:23
Thank you. 00:56:27
OK. 00:56:29
All right, now we'll have the applicant come up. 00:56:30
Good evening. Brad Reynolds, 2500 E Haven Lane in Holladay, UT. 00:56:36
I am the applicant for the proposed project at 1740 E. 00:56:43
We has been stated by staff, we originally had submitted a little different site plan and as we got to meet with some of the staff 00:56:50
and engineer and particularly the Fire Marshall, there was a strong recommendation that we change our site plan. So we went back 00:56:58
and reworked it. It's a challenging site because there's certain. 00:57:06
Restrictions with FEMA and the flood control in the stream where you have to have a minimum of 50 feet. 00:57:16
That you cannot encroach upon that 50 foot set back. So we reworked the site plan and I think. 00:57:24
Everyone was quite pleased, including the Fire Marshall and the engineer, because it has easy accessibility and it seems to flow 00:57:32
well for all emergency vehicles. 00:57:38
And we are certainly planning on at least 2 parking stalls. Uh. 00:57:45
And then we hope depending on how our FEMA flood maps and different things go or we could potentially on that little center turn 00:57:50
around, maybe add to that at a future date. But for right now, we do have two additional stalls. 00:57:58
We feel like this is a very nice plan and we've tried to open a lot of green space open to the Creek where everybody that's living 00:58:06
there can have that. 00:58:11
Available to them to go use and enjoy. It's a relatively flat as what would brought up so there's not a steep bank or anything off 00:58:18
the Creek and all that will be grass going down to the Creek. 00:58:24
Any questions I could answer for you? 00:58:31
So I'm I'm remembering when we saw this before the units faced. 00:58:35
Seems like they all faced the Creek for a view. 00:58:42
What is your current plan? This is on your screen. I put up the original concept. 00:58:45
OK. So you can see they all kind of faced each other. There was a center court, OK, that you would. And then we'd have balconies 00:58:52
and decks that you could look out towards the Creek. And we tried to keep the center portion open so everybody could see the Creek 00:59:00
or most could have a accessible route to go use that open area by the Creek. 00:59:08
And now with our new one, it's pretty similar. We've opened up the center. We just have more units that face directly to the 00:59:18
north. So the the five that are in one building, their front door will be on the north side and they'll face out. Yeah, the front 00:59:26
door will be on the north, but they'll have upper balconies that will look back towards the Creek and towards the mountains if. 00:59:35
When the view will allow. 00:59:44
OK. 00:59:47
And if memory serves, there's a wall currently running along that N into the property. 00:59:48
There's not a wall, but there's a fence from the Linden Apartments and a little bit of a just a slight lip of asphalt there where 00:59:53
it connects to our property, but very minimal, no wall. 00:59:59
Will you put a wall up? We're not planning to. We're hoping to just transition off that fence to our grade and we think it should 01:00:07
should work well without a wall. So there's no wall planned. There is a four foot sidewalk that kind of connects and goes around 01:00:12
the perimeter of the project. 01:00:18
OK. Is there any? 01:00:25
Arbor scape in your landscape plan that doesn't involve the Creekside? 01:00:28
Yeah, No, when you say arborscape trees, trees, yeah, we, we will definitely as we finalize the landscape plan and that will 01:00:37
certainly have some trees and different things that will try to soften some of the hard surface and that around there. And I think 01:00:43
with this central and surprisingly on that back against the Creek, there are huge pine trees that they're just absolutely 01:00:50
beautiful trees. So we're trying to make sure. 01:00:57
Try to stay away from those and take good care of them. 01:01:06
I'm just thinking the heat island and noise island that will be created in the middle if you don't have, because I'm based on what 01:01:09
you have on here, I can't see the dimensions of the space between the drives for the garages. But I mean, I can't imagine that 01:01:16
that's going to be a Maple tree that's going to fit in there. No, unfortunately in the center there. I I seriously doubt we might 01:01:22
have a few shrubs that are in between the driveways by the aprons that go into the garage. 01:01:29
But there won't be much landscape in that center area there. 01:01:36
There's just no room. It's all. It's like a 20 foot wide drive approach coming in. 01:01:41
Any other questions for the applicant So the. 01:01:49
The public Rd. would end at your property line. 01:01:52
Correct. And that what were we doing for garbage collection, This will all be private. So we'd have like waste Management, 01:01:57
everybody would have an individual garbage can and they'd come in once a week and pick up those garbage cans. So whether that's 01:02:04
placed right at the entrance where it typically would be, we haven't totally. That's most likely everybody would cart that out to 01:02:11
that center approach area right there as you come into the project. 01:02:18
But it won't be any dumpster pads or anything like that. 01:02:26
And back to the visitor parking issue. 01:02:31
So how many visitor parking? 01:02:36
Stalls are they're going to be. 01:02:38
Right now there's just two designated ones, and code requires 0, so we're actually 2 above what the city requires. 01:02:40
And where would they be? It'd be right now you can see there's kind of a little brick paver area next to that little. 01:02:49
Turn around area in the center of the project. There's kind of brick pavers there. 01:02:56
So that that's really hard skate parking, right? Not it's not even decorative. Well, it's like it's paver. So it is decorative. 01:03:03
Was possibly a small rubber tree. Make it in there. There you go. 01:03:16
I've got to say, I mean I know the code doesn't require any, but it just shares the mind that you have 9 residences. 01:03:23
Only two visitor stalls, and then you're going to impinge on the public roadway, which is already impinged on by the big apartment 01:03:31
complex where all those cars parked because they don't want to park in the parking lot every time I go by there. 01:03:39
It's full. Is it because it's surprising if you drive into their very entrance that's closest to us, they have a lot of excess 01:03:48
parking whenever we go by that side of it is empty. Now, whether some choose to park on the street, I don't know, but there are 01:03:56
several stalls that are very seldom used that are just open stalls. So I don't know how many use the street. But did you enter 01:04:03
into an agreement with them? So we've actually been talking to them and, and. 01:04:10
Looking to perhaps even purchase a little more property to the north, but we have not finalized any negotiations to do that. 01:04:18
We might be able to workout a parking arrangement. 01:04:28
We know him a little bit, so we'll continue to work on that. 01:04:32
And as a developer, do you have any objection if the city says? 01:04:36
Parking one side only. 01:04:41
I don't have an issue with that. I really don't. I, I do not as a developer and we do a lot of big projects throughout the valley. 01:04:43
I do not like painting the curb red, to be honest with you. I'd rather see a sign because after a year and a half it looks 01:04:50
horrible. And so somebody to keep it looking nice, it's got to repaint that like every year. And what happens, it never gets done. 01:04:56
So in my opinion. 01:05:03
I think that's not the way to go. I think you'd be better off to put a sign. No parking. 01:05:10
Or parking, you know, something on this side only. Or whatever was signage. 01:05:16
Problem. I guess the problem there is the sign that the side that you want to put the no parking doesn't have anything to put the 01:05:22
no parking on except that. 01:05:25
Wall. Well, no, you've got see if you look right there where his arrow is, See right there, you've got a little bit right there. 01:05:30
But other than that you don't 'cause it's all approached going into Linden Apartments. 01:05:34
But there is a small area right there. 01:05:40
Between the sidewalk and that fence. 01:05:43
And that curve that you could put a sign there. 01:05:46
I mean, and if it had to be painted, it does. It's just typically we do not like how they look after a year or two. 01:05:49
So we typically try to stay away from that. 01:05:59
But if the council feels like it should be painted, we'll certainly do it. 01:06:04
I think for those types of things, the city actually will go in and paint them and sign them. 01:06:10
Paint is cheap. 01:06:19
That's Holiday is on top of that as well as. 01:06:22
Keeping the weeds cleaned up, they do a great job so. 01:06:25
After my public safety days, I would tell you that I. 01:06:29
Prefer that there not be any parking on that at all. It isn't a regular sized road and if you need to bring a fire truck or 01:06:33
something in I. 01:06:37
I would just stop all the parking on that road on both sides, yeah. 01:06:42
Well, if I might, if I may, it's definitely been brought to the attention of our emergency services as they look at this in more 01:06:48
detail and understanding where the city is coming from, from public service, from public works department. 01:06:54
Acknowledging that this is a public St. even though you've got a fence that's relatively new been built a good 5 feet into the 01:07:01
right of way. 01:07:05
Access is at the top. 01:07:11
Top of the list, so on street parking it might be, is something that they can definitely look, start looking at and how that's 01:07:13
being treated. 01:07:18
At the risk of making Mr. Reynolds stand here longer, how in the world? 01:07:23
How does somebody just build a fence into the cities right away that the city hasn't come through with a bulldozer and taken it 01:07:30
out? The problem is that it wasn't right of way. But when we incorporated this area in 2014. 01:07:37
It was a private drive to who lived back here? What was their names? 01:07:45
Yeah, Van der Linden. Yeah. Anyway, so over time, the city starts plowing it and maintaining it, and they decide to put up a green 01:07:52
sign. So we have a lot of these substandard streets that were started out as private and then morphed into a public situation, as 01:07:59
you know, as intensity goes on, but their property line goes to the middle of the road. 01:08:06
So we're lucky the fence isn't in the middle of the road. True. 01:08:15
So at some point, when and if this development starts to morph. 01:08:19
Change get raised, we will address that and bring that fence back to the proper width of the right of way. 01:08:25
Can I? Can I ask a question? Certainly. 01:08:34
I I. 01:08:39
I think this plan actually lost a lot in the change and I understand that there are public safety. 01:08:41
Concerns, but. 01:08:47
The feel of the the plan changed from a neighborhood feel where you could walk out your door down to the Creek you would see your 01:08:49
neighbours, to one where you're gonna drive in your garage. You never see anybody. So I I think. 01:08:54
The plan is. 01:09:00
Materially different in how it will feel to live here, um. 01:09:02
So I'm just wondering, did you consider building fewer buildings? Did you consider making them smaller? I just, I actually think 01:09:07
this is it sort of changed from a place where I was like, oh, I could picture living there to be like, I don't, I don't know, 01:09:13
because the, the nature of the neighborhood, this little 9 house neighborhood is quite different than it was. 01:09:19
I think there's advantages and disadvantages too. And obviously we've talked about how the Fire Marshall emergency vehicles and 01:09:27
the engineer feel about it. And I honestly feel with the amount of hard surface that was on the other site plan where you had a 01:09:36
big U-shaped driveway that was going around the entire project, there was a tremendous amount of hard surface. 01:09:45
And I think with what we've done, that has been. 01:09:54
Greatly reduced and so you'll definitely have a lot more green space and opening it up to the back, it is my opinion there will be 01:09:57
much more of that will actually enhance the community. 01:10:04
And when you get that much hard surface, we were a little reluctant at first, but as we looked at all the different factors, I 01:10:11