Live stream not working in Chrome or Edge? Click Here
No Bookmarks Exist.
All right, Well, good evening, everyone. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission, February 4th, 2025. | 00:00:00 | |
We have all commissioners in attendance, less Commissioner Gong, who sent her regrets. | 00:00:07 | |
And we have. | 00:00:11 | |
Action-packed agenda of two items today with. | 00:00:13 | |
Public hearing on his own amendment. | 00:00:17 | |
And then an action item for approval of minutes. And I have asked Vice Chair, Commissioner Prince if she would read for us. | 00:00:20 | |
The notice we give to all members of the public that attend this meeting. | 00:00:28 | |
The City of Holiday Planning Commission is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special | 00:00:32 | |
studies. | 00:00:36 | |
Make recommendations to the City Council on proposed zoning map and ordinance changes. | 00:00:40 | |
And approve conditional uses and subdivisions. | 00:00:45 | |
The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications. | 00:00:49 | |
Rather. | 00:00:52 | |
Commissioners do not meet with applicants except at publicly noticed meetings. | 00:00:56 | |
Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda where the location, the nature of the neighborhood. | 00:01:00 | |
Existing structures and uses related to the proposed changes are noted. | 00:01:06 | |
Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff. | 00:01:11 | |
The city's general plan, zoning ordinance and other reports. | 00:01:16 | |
By all verbal and written comments and by evidence submitted, all of which are part of the public record. | 00:01:20 | |
Thank you very much. | 00:01:27 | |
And with that, we will roll into our first item on the agenda, which is the zone map amendment for Rezone and we will ask city | 00:01:30 | |
staff. | 00:01:36 | |
If they will give us an overview of this item. | 00:01:41 | |
Sorry, I forgot to turn on the cameras. | 00:01:48 | |
Let me get that set and then I will. | 00:01:52 | |
I see the blue light I think we're on. | 00:01:57 | |
Sorry for the delay. | 00:02:01 | |
All right. | 00:02:35 | |
Just that last item, Cameras. | 00:02:47 | |
For it all right. So this application is for a zone map amendment. | 00:02:49 | |
For the property located at 2232 E Pheasant Way. | 00:02:56 | |
In the R 187 zone and the request is to rezone from R187 with A2 acre minimum lot size. | 00:03:01 | |
To our 1:43. | 00:03:09 | |
The intent of the rezone is to reduce the land area required to facilitate. | 00:03:15 | |
A property line shift between two neighboring properties. | 00:03:23 | |
Just a little background on the area, this is the Estates area and in the general plan for holiday. | 00:03:27 | |
This is identified as country estates protected. | 00:03:36 | |
The area is largely serviced by private lanes, has a dense mature tree canopy and large parcels. | 00:03:40 | |
When the city incorporated in 1999, there was an intentional zoning pattern where. | 00:03:48 | |
Areas. | 00:03:57 | |
Designated with a zone with a minimum lot size larger than even some of the lots. So there is a lot of non conforming lots | 00:04:00 | |
created. | 00:04:03 | |
When the city was incorporated. | 00:04:07 | |
The intent of that was. | 00:04:09 | |
To prevent mass subdividing of property. | 00:04:12 | |
Was a large part of the reason for incorporating from Salt Lake County. | 00:04:16 | |
To be able to control that subdivision of land. | 00:04:20 | |
Some more contextual background specific to this property and some neighbors. | 00:04:26 | |
In 2007. | 00:04:33 | |
Planned unit development was approved for. | 00:04:35 | |
5 units on 15.75 acres of land. | 00:04:39 | |
So that was the property that was directly to the South and then the two lots that. | 00:04:44 | |
Were later subdivided. | 00:04:50 | |
And the PUD wasn't It was approved but wasn't ever recorded. | 00:04:52 | |
And the landowner there eventually wanted to create 2 lots for sale, and that's when these two lots were created, just under a | 00:04:56 | |
standard subdivision process instead of the planned unit development process. So the subdivision was created with those two lots, | 00:05:04 | |
each of them meeting the zone requirements of having two acres of land per Watt. | 00:05:11 | |
Within the general plan. | 00:05:20 | |
Country estates protected. The intent of that designation is to preserve existing large lot development patterns. | 00:05:23 | |
It calls out the mature tree canopy and ambiance created by a state type development on private lanes as being. | 00:05:32 | |
Protected features within that country's estates area. | 00:05:40 | |
Guidance there is that new development can be appropriate, appropriately accommodated. | 00:05:45 | |
Through utilizing unclaimed density by and not. | 00:05:51 | |
Or let's see by subdivision and not by rezones. | 00:05:55 | |
So that's where you'll see like shifting of lot areas around. | 00:05:59 | |
And potentially new subdivisions created that way or from sub fighting larger parcels like the original 15 acre parcel. | 00:06:03 | |
Was a subdivision. New lots were created that way with that two acre standard. | 00:06:12 | |
The intent of that two acre standard was to preserve a lot of open space. | 00:06:19 | |
In our work meeting, we looked at lot coverage areas. | 00:06:23 | |
But that's a concern of the areas. | 00:06:27 | |
How much structure will cover a? | 00:06:29 | |
A particular parcel and basing that on percentage sizes so that there is a preservation of. | 00:06:33 | |
Open space on larger bots. | 00:06:39 | |
The analysis for the rezone was included in the staff report with rezone approval standards. | 00:06:45 | |
And the role of the Planning Commission tonight is then to make a recommendation to the City Council and. | 00:06:53 | |
I can have the applicant come up her and she can invite him. | 00:07:00 | |
OK. Well, thank you very much for that. And I think the the the bar has been set on what needs to be covered. | 00:07:02 | |
And we would love to hear from the applicant and. | 00:07:10 | |
Invite them up now. | 00:07:16 | |
Thank you for hearing this. | 00:07:23 | |
Application tonight. | 00:07:25 | |
I was on the. | 00:07:27 | |
Master plan committee. | 00:07:28 | |
Chairman, actually for the City of Highland, I just calculated 32 years ago. | 00:07:30 | |
And I admire master planning, so I understand what. | 00:07:36 | |
The city has tried to do and we're very happy that you're. | 00:07:41 | |
Holding to. | 00:07:44 | |
The standards. | 00:07:45 | |
I'm going to. | 00:07:46 | |
My name, by the way, is Randall Paul. | 00:07:49 | |
My wife and I live at 2232 Pheasant Way. | 00:07:51 | |
I don't know if you've seen this, but this picture is worth 1000 words so I'm going to. | 00:07:55 | |
Just give you these. | 00:08:00 | |
This is the current zoning. You'll see where the zoning. | 00:08:06 | |
The property line goes down. | 00:08:09 | |
Middle of the driveway. | 00:08:13 | |
The property that. | 00:08:15 | |
My daughter. | 00:08:17 | |
Thank you. And we're asking to move that property. | 00:08:19 | |
And I think we might have an image of that up on the TV as well. | 00:08:25 | |
That that to make you. | 00:08:29 | |
Property line to a three acre. One acre. | 00:08:37 | |
Location her, she has the estate, we have a smaller. | 00:08:41 | |
Development there and we bought it. | 00:08:45 | |
At the same time and we were going to subdivide it and. | 00:08:47 | |
Not subdivided. We thought we were only going to make a property line shift and we found we had to go through this process. | 00:08:51 | |
So. | 00:08:57 | |
I've looked into. | 00:08:59 | |
The situation and I think you'll see. | 00:09:01 | |
That we've just heard what the general plan is for this area. | 00:09:04 | |
And that this. | 00:09:08 | |
Will not change any. | 00:09:10 | |
Building whatsoever, we're not planning on changing anything. | 00:09:12 | |
Other than moving. | 00:09:16 | |
The property line to a three acre. | 00:09:18 | |
One acre ownership. | 00:09:20 | |
So the trees are there. | 00:09:24 | |
There will be no new development. | 00:09:27 | |
We're not asking for that. | 00:09:29 | |
In fact, if you'll see the center portion. | 00:09:30 | |
No build area. | 00:09:37 | |
Seriously. | 00:09:40 | |
In other words, either. | 00:09:42 | |
We would not want anyone to. | 00:09:44 | |
Build on that property, come in years from now and say, well we've got an acre now, we've got 3 acres, we're going to. | 00:09:46 | |
Cut down one acre. | 00:09:52 | |
We'll build on it. | 00:09:54 | |
We will make a permanent easement on that ourselves because we wouldn't want that to happen either, right? | 00:09:56 | |
Don't want our view of the mountain to be blocked by a house right in our front yard? | 00:10:02 | |
So there are two issues that I've looked at and I. | 00:10:06 | |
From a planning standpoint. | 00:10:09 | |
I really believe. | 00:10:11 | |
That if you wanted to stipulate that we put a permanent no build easement. | 00:10:13 | |
On the. | 00:10:19 | |
The three acre portion. | 00:10:20 | |
That leaves an acre in front. We'd be glad to do that, right? | 00:10:22 | |
If you're concerned that someone might come in later and say, oh, we've got 3 acres. | 00:10:25 | |
Now we'll cut it down to two. | 00:10:30 | |
And give someone the land that would be. | 00:10:32 | |
I think they'd be crazy, but. | 00:10:35 | |
You know they'd say well. | 00:10:38 | |
To make money will. | 00:10:40 | |
We'll try to sell an acre off and yes, that'll cut right through the middle of our driveway. | 00:10:43 | |
In other words, it's to me it's not even a realistic option. | 00:10:48 | |
But I'm trying to. | 00:10:52 | |
Face any criticism of our plan. | 00:10:54 | |
That somehow it would hurt the city in any way. | 00:10:57 | |
So our intent is simply to move the property line. | 00:11:02 | |
OK, well, I appreciate the narrative and I'm going to ask my fellow commissioners if they have any questions for you. The 1st I | 00:11:06 | |
just. | 00:11:10 | |
I want to make sure I understand because you kind of talked around some things there, but. | 00:11:15 | |
If the intent is not. | 00:11:20 | |
If the intent is to continue to have this be open space, I guess the real question I would have is. | 00:11:22 | |
Why do you need the property line moved? | 00:11:28 | |
My daughter is. | 00:11:31 | |
We went through a divorce last year and they're selling their house. | 00:11:33 | |
And the house is. | 00:11:37 | |
Is would be much more sellable. | 00:11:39 | |
The size of their property and all the property on it. With a three acre parcel, that's what they've always wanted. | 00:11:42 | |
Between us, we were always going to do this. | 00:11:48 | |
And now it's become immediately needful. | 00:11:50 | |
To do this. | 00:11:53 | |
So we've got a bigger property. | 00:11:54 | |
We have a smaller property. | 00:11:57 | |
And it's more sellable certainly to. | 00:11:59 | |
OK. As you can see, it'd be very difficult to sell this with a property line where it currently is. | 00:12:02 | |
Down. It's about 25 feet off the house. | 00:12:06 | |
In the middle of their driveway. | 00:12:10 | |
OK, So all right, I appreciate that. I just. | 00:12:13 | |
Like I said, I'm trying to just kind of wrap my head around the the why behind the what with it a little bit more. Sorry, I should | 00:12:16 | |
have given the background. | 00:12:20 | |
So I appreciate that. | 00:12:24 | |
Fellow commissioners, do you have any questions for the applicant? I've got a question. What year did you and your daughter | 00:12:26 | |
purchase these two parcels? | 00:12:31 | |
She bought them. | 00:12:36 | |
In I think the spring and we. | 00:12:37 | |
Got ours in 2017 so. | 00:12:41 | |
Few months apart. | 00:12:43 | |
OK. So at the time, were you aware of the zoning? | 00:12:44 | |
I'm sorry, if you're going to address the Commission, we're going to need just for the recording, yeah. | 00:12:52 | |
And if you'll just state your name, address. Thank you. | 00:12:56 | |
Yes. So I'm Jade and Alan. | 00:13:01 | |
Snow now formerly Romney. | 00:13:04 | |
And when we purchased the land originally, we purchased all four acres at once and Jim who sold us the land. | 00:13:07 | |
Always knew that our plan was to have my parents on one acre and we would take the three acres because. | 00:13:14 | |
They were older, didn't want as much land to maintain. | 00:13:21 | |
And he thought we had a good argument, though it was zoned for two, two acre lots. | 00:13:24 | |
He thought all along, since all of the homes touching. | 00:13:29 | |
Our property, except his, are all one acre lots. | 00:13:33 | |
He thought it would be easy to get it rezone so when we first purchased it he even wrote that in our CC and ours. He was like Yep | 00:13:36 | |
this can be divided. However they'll just need to go through this process. We can't build them. | 00:13:43 | |
He didn't want anymore structures. The idea was only one home with a guesthouse. | 00:13:49 | |
Or approved structure on each two acre. | 00:13:54 | |
Divide, but now it would be divided in a one and a three since we wanted more land. | 00:13:58 | |
That's that simple. So we always assumed we'd go through this process and that it would have been straightforward given its | 00:14:04 | |
adjoining one acre zoning on most sides. | 00:14:09 | |
But. | 00:14:14 | |
Yeah, here we are. | 00:14:15 | |
OK. Appreciate that backdrop and I can answer anymore. Thank you. | 00:14:17 | |
I have a question. Yeah. | 00:14:21 | |
Have you explored ways of? | 00:14:22 | |
Getting what you want without a rezone. | 00:14:25 | |
Yes. So we looked into just a lot line adjustment. | 00:14:28 | |
And why did that not work? | 00:14:32 | |
Because the whole issue was. | 00:14:35 | |
The lot line adjustment would put us in a. | 00:14:38 | |
Yes, sure. So the just doing the lot line adjustment wouldn't be approved because it would create a non conforming lot to the | 00:14:44 | |
zone. So you have to have your zone and. | 00:14:50 | |
The the lot size has to comply with that. | 00:14:56 | |
We didn't ask, we thought. | 00:15:00 | |
I can I can add just a comment here so it sounds like. | 00:15:05 | |
Possibly the previous property owner who was. | 00:15:08 | |
Facilitating the PUD. | 00:15:12 | |
That was the impression that then. | 00:15:15 | |
These two lots could do that same PUD process. | 00:15:17 | |
So that may be the better route for the applicant is to work with the neighboring property owner and do a PUD for the whole thing. | 00:15:23 | |
Because that's really the only way to make. | 00:15:34 | |
A non conforming property within a. | 00:15:38 | |
Our 187 zone. | 00:15:43 | |
So and. | 00:15:51 | |
That was what I was talking about in the staff report and some of that background history with the property. So planned unit | 00:15:52 | |
development is? | 00:15:57 | |
A PUD. It allows you to create. | 00:16:02 | |
You want to explain what specific? Yeah, so it's. | 00:16:07 | |
Instead of having, you don't have to adhere strictly to the. | 00:16:12 | |
Minimum requirements for a zone so you there's flexibility with setbacks. Property size. | 00:16:17 | |
I'm trying to think what else those are the main things. St. frontage is another one. | 00:16:25 | |
Umm in exchange for meeting the goals of a planned unit development, which is open space preservation of natural features. | 00:16:30 | |
So that type of an application was previously applied for for this area. | 00:16:39 | |
And then when that property owner wanted to sell these two lots and create these two lots. | 00:16:46 | |
Instead of continuing with the PUD process and just changing what was previously approved on that. | 00:16:53 | |
They did a. | 00:17:00 | |
Subdivision under a standard subdivision. | 00:17:02 | |
Instead of a PUD. | 00:17:05 | |
So a PUD is a conditional use permit. | 00:17:07 | |
But it's a subdivision that's paired with the conditional use. | 00:17:11 | |
And that allows for some flexibility of the underlying zone requirements. | 00:17:14 | |
Right, because you have to have a minimum area for doing a PUD, so just in the R 187 zone. | 00:17:21 | |
You have to have 6 acres. | 00:17:30 | |
So your two properties by themselves at just over 4 acres wouldn't qualify for the minimum area it would require. | 00:17:33 | |
Both of you and your neighboring property owner with I think he has seven acres currently, I believe, yeah. | 00:17:43 | |
So Jim Dreyfuss, my one question on that. | 00:17:52 | |
To two acre lots, so the four acres. | 00:17:57 | |
The year before he sold A1 acre lot that's touching us, so he broke off that vibe and and made it into five lots. | 00:17:59 | |
I mean 5. | 00:18:07 | |
Yeah. And when I was looking at the file on that like. | 00:18:08 | |
Your two lots was previously one light or is configured in a different way. | 00:18:12 | |
So it's just that instead of doing the PUD process to change it as to. | 00:18:17 | |
However, this layout was. They just said let's just do a. | 00:18:24 | |
Standard subdivision. | 00:18:28 | |
Because these two lots will create will be minimum lot size requirements and it's only a total of 5 acres which isn't the six | 00:18:30 | |
which is the minimum required amount. | 00:18:34 | |
Yes, so why would he want to work with us to do it now that he's already? Yeah, that's why I'm saying I like there's. | 00:18:39 | |
Yeah, that is. That is a potential way to address this issue in a different way, but you would have to work with. | 00:18:47 | |
Some other neighboring land owners to have enough minimum land area. | 00:18:56 | |
For a planned unit development. | 00:19:00 | |
Because I know he doesn't want to break up his existence, right? And he doesn't have to. | 00:19:02 | |
Yes, it would just be. | 00:19:07 | |
So. | 00:19:10 | |
Creative of a new PD? Yes. | 00:19:12 | |
Yes. | 00:19:14 | |
So the PUD would include it could be all of these. You can keep all these together and you just change where you want your lot | 00:19:16 | |
lines to be between the two. | 00:19:20 | |
That is the simple. | 00:19:26 | |
Answer if you can were if that property owner is willing to do that. | 00:19:27 | |
So that said. | 00:19:33 | |
So that's like. | 00:19:34 | |
That was part of that confusion when you're saying, oh, this was always the plan. This was kind of what was told to us because | 00:19:36 | |
some of that may be coming from that PUD process of, yeah, we can move things around and there's flexibility there. | 00:19:44 | |
But it would have to be flexibility. | 00:19:52 | |
Under. | 00:19:54 | |
With just the minimum zone standards, it has to be the two acres. | 00:19:55 | |
So if you can loop in and create a PUD, that's. | 00:20:01 | |
Everybody's agreeable to then. | 00:20:04 | |
That would work. That's one option. | 00:20:06 | |
The given us you're saying we also have the 500 foot thing? | 00:20:11 | |
Sorry, where are you bringing all the neighbors? | 00:20:19 | |
Yes. | 00:20:25 | |
Yes, so and we can discuss a PUD process if that's any way we can discuss, right. So I mean at this point I'm just going to jump | 00:20:26 | |
in real quick and interrupt here and I'm just going to say so staff is. | 00:20:33 | |
Outlined a very clear argument that you have to overcome on the why. | 00:20:40 | |
And they are proposing right now an alternative to trying to overcome that argument before this Commission. | 00:20:45 | |
And you want to know our why? Or you're coming up with your why. | 00:20:53 | |
Well, they've outlined it in the staff report and she went over how it doesn't meet with the zone, the technical review committee, | 00:20:58 | |
all the other aspects of it that she initiated this with. | 00:21:03 | |
And you're making a case As for why your zone should be amended in spite of staff's argument. OK. And So what I'm saying is that | 00:21:07 | |
she has presented to you an alternative? | 00:21:13 | |
Instead of trying to overcome Staff's argument of why this isn't. | 00:21:19 | |
Positive recommendation being given by city staff. There might be an alternative solution, so before we move forward with the | 00:21:24 | |
process. | 00:21:28 | |
And spend any more time, I just want to ask the applicant. | 00:21:32 | |
If you are interested in withdrawing temporarily your request and exploring that alternative. | 00:21:36 | |
Or if you would just like move forward with potentially having. | 00:21:43 | |
Negative recommendation forward to City Council. | 00:21:47 | |
I think the question then, for us is a simple one. | 00:21:51 | |
If the City Council turns us down. | 00:21:54 | |
That would not aggregate our chance to come through. | 00:21:56 | |
That's true. | 00:22:00 | |
Since it would be much more difficult. | 00:22:03 | |
To go through this process again. | 00:22:05 | |
We'd rather go to the City Council with a turndown. | 00:22:07 | |
Given the what we think is effectively the exact same result that would occur. | 00:22:10 | |
Right. Either way, exact same result. There's slightly different result. | 00:22:16 | |
We would have created a precedent of not following the general plan. | 00:22:22 | |
Is it a general platform? | 00:22:27 | |
Yes, yes. | 00:22:28 | |
Absolutely yes, it 100% does not meet with the general plan. | 00:22:29 | |
Because it is a protected zone. | 00:22:36 | |
That your property lies within. | 00:22:39 | |
And there's already a precedent of other applicants who've come before you. | 00:22:41 | |
And been denied. | 00:22:46 | |
Trying to change the zone. | 00:22:48 | |
Question I had. | 00:22:50 | |
Here with respect to. | 00:22:51 | |
The general plan. | 00:22:52 | |
I believe the general plan is. | 00:22:54 | |
Is specifically this? | 00:22:55 | |
Dustin, open space. | 00:22:57 | |
And. | 00:22:59 | |
All the previous. | 00:23:01 | |
Applications have been for. | 00:23:03 | |
Development, and they've been turned down because of development. | 00:23:05 | |
We are not. | 00:23:09 | |
Developing anything, we are going to completely continue. | 00:23:10 | |
To keep this open space and we're going to make it legal. | 00:23:14 | |
So that's. | 00:23:18 | |
In terms of the general plan, I do believe I read it. | 00:23:21 | |
It's a question of development, not open space. | 00:23:23 | |
We are actually not. | 00:23:26 | |
We're not active applying for development. | 00:23:28 | |
And that we're not changing anything in the general plan. | 00:23:31 | |
With respect to what anyone will see. | 00:23:34 | |
Ever OK? | 00:23:37 | |
Well, and if you're if you're confident in that, like I'm happy to move forward. I just wanted to pause right there because we had | 00:23:38 | |
a nice long discussion about the alternative, but if. | 00:23:42 | |
We don't want to explore that at Test time and we just want to move forward. I'm just going to ask any other commissioners if they | 00:23:47 | |
have questions for the applicant before we move to the public hearing process, then no. | 00:23:51 | |
May I make one question and then you have a couple. | 00:23:56 | |
My question is, did what I just say make sense? | 00:24:00 | |
Sure, yes. | 00:24:03 | |
That's I just wanted to. | 00:24:05 | |
Yeah, and mine was just a simple comment to say, I think. | 00:24:07 | |
For those that aren't as educated on the things that my dad has read and obviously what all of you know. | 00:24:12 | |
What has been? | 00:24:18 | |
What I've been wanting to propose is just following the fact that our driveway literally is an easement in a. | 00:24:20 | |
Of a different zone, we have to pass one anchors to drive into our house. | 00:24:27 | |
That was sold by the same person as a connection to our land. | 00:24:31 | |
The zoning is literally on. | 00:24:35 | |
Property where it becomes something different and. | 00:24:38 | |
I understand for the protection. | 00:24:41 | |
Like like my father was saying. | 00:24:44 | |
Of development of open spaces. | 00:24:47 | |
There's a reason why there's always a point where it becomes a new zone. There's always going to be a line. I understand that line | 00:24:49 | |
happens to be on our yard. | 00:24:53 | |
And I'm hoping that if we can. | 00:24:57 | |
Honor, like he said, the exact things that are meant to be protected with that. | 00:25:00 | |
That then this is essentially a lot line adjustment just following it in the legal. | 00:25:04 | |
Pathway, you know. | 00:25:09 | |
Well, perfect. Well, we'll go ahead and yeah, thank you, guys. We'll invite you to sit down. Don't go too far because we're just | 00:25:11 | |
going to open the public. | 00:25:14 | |
Hearing for this. | 00:25:17 | |
And for those that do wish to make comment on this today, tonight. | 00:25:19 | |
We ask that you state your name and address when you come to the podium and keep your remarks. | 00:25:24 | |
To three minutes or less. And if you are going after someone else that's made comments, please don't restate the same comments. | 00:25:29 | |
And with that, it looks like we have a taker. | 00:25:33 | |
Leanne Stillman, 2149 E Pheasant Way. | 00:25:38 | |
I would like to start by thanking you for serving the community this way. I think Planning Commission is a fairly tough job. I've | 00:25:43 | |
been there. | 00:25:46 | |
And I would also like to state what fabulous neighbors the Paul family is. | 00:25:51 | |
They are, truly. | 00:25:56 | |
An asset. | 00:25:58 | |
And I'm really sad half of them are leaving. | 00:25:59 | |
I just want you to imagine that you approve this. | 00:26:02 | |
And that we have 3 acres on the east and one acre on the West. | 00:26:07 | |
And I believe Rand and. | 00:26:12 | |
Jan Paul And they say we're not going to develop it. | 00:26:14 | |
But they're saying that about an acre of land they're giving up. | 00:26:17 | |
And so now think about that three acre parcel that is acknowledged. | 00:26:23 | |
Is going to be sold. | 00:26:27 | |
If I'm the buyer. | 00:26:30 | |
I'm buying 3 acres in A2 acre zone. | 00:26:32 | |
The first thing I'm going to do is come to you and say wait a minute. | 00:26:36 | |
Only need 2 acres. | 00:26:40 | |
And you've already created one acre next door. | 00:26:42 | |
Give me the acre and the development rights for this one parcel. | 00:26:45 | |
And everything that attaches to it, I get to have the same right as anybody else who has an Aquarian holiday. | 00:26:49 | |
My concern has nothing to do with the. | 00:26:56 | |
Well-intentioned. It's the fact that these aren't the people that are going to be controlling it. | 00:26:59 | |
Believe them, but they're selling it. | 00:27:04 | |
And a three acre parcel. | 00:27:07 | |
In A2 acre demand. | 00:27:10 | |
Creates a very big unknown for us. | 00:27:12 | |
Thank you for all you do for us. | 00:27:16 | |
Thank you for your comments. | 00:27:18 | |
Do we have anyone else that's interested in making comment tonight? | 00:27:22 | |
You will at the end, yes. | 00:27:26 | |
So just making sure no other public comments, nobody bursting at scenes online. I'm just kidding. You guys can't do that. | 00:27:28 | |
So with that, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing then. Well, and then we'll invite you back to come up and address any of | 00:27:34 | |
the comments made. | 00:27:37 | |
Thanks Liane for your. | 00:27:46 | |
Neighborly response to our. | 00:27:50 | |
Application. | 00:27:52 | |
To say, and I perhaps wasn't clear at the beginning. | 00:27:54 | |
We are putting an HOA on this property. | 00:27:58 | |
Homeownership. | 00:28:01 | |
A permanent homeowners agreement. | 00:28:03 | |
Between the three acre and the one acre. | 00:28:05 | |
So that there will be. | 00:28:08 | |
A permanent no build easement. | 00:28:10 | |
In the deed. | 00:28:13 | |
On that property. | 00:28:14 | |
So that the three acre parcel when they buy it. | 00:28:15 | |
They will see. | 00:28:18 | |
Permanent No build in this section. | 00:28:19 | |
Property. | 00:28:23 | |
And that's what I said at the beginning that. | 00:28:32 | |
Came out with it too fast. | 00:28:34 | |
We would be happy to say. | 00:28:35 | |
We will have a stipulation. | 00:28:38 | |
Or this agreement that there will be illegal? | 00:28:40 | |
Permanent no build easement placed on that land. | 00:28:43 | |
For any future bill. | 00:28:46 | |
Fire. Fire of that property. | 00:28:47 | |
It's legal. | 00:28:49 | |
No, Bill. | 00:28:51 | |
OK. And it's permanent, so? | 00:28:53 | |
It can't be given away. That's a legal possibility. | 00:28:55 | |
That's what we want to do because it protects our view. | 00:28:58 | |
If we end up staying on that. | 00:29:01 | |
I hope that's clear. She. | 00:29:05 | |
She's absolutely right of what could happen. | 00:29:07 | |
But not when there's a permanent. | 00:29:09 | |
Nobilities amount. | 00:29:12 | |
And. | 00:29:14 | |
OK. | 00:29:19 | |
Well, with that public hearings closed and did we have any additional questions for the applicant? | 00:29:21 | |
Address that. | 00:29:26 | |
No build easement concept and that. | 00:29:28 | |
Wouldn't a future owner? | 00:29:31 | |
Become the HOA and could simply change the rules. | 00:29:33 | |
Well, it's if it's an HOA, sure. I mean you'd have to have unity of ownership again and then if. | 00:29:36 | |
Two homes were. | 00:29:42 | |
Owned by the same entity or the same individuals, they could. | 00:29:43 | |
Eliminate the boundary and then eliminate the easement and the HOA. | 00:29:47 | |
If it's an HOA, I mean it. | 00:29:52 | |
I don't know that it, I mean, I wouldn't recommend doing it the way he's suggesting, but that's. | 00:29:54 | |
Could you put a permanent no build area on it? Yes. Are there ways to get around it? | 00:29:59 | |
And then just to contrast that with what? But you would still have the problem to overcome of. | 00:30:05 | |
You know, granting additional additional lot. | 00:30:11 | |
Just because. | 00:30:14 | |
Let's just say, for example, that. | 00:30:16 | |
You know, this was approved by the council and the rezone was done. | 00:30:18 | |
You would create a one acre lot that would be. | 00:30:23 | |
You'd have to amend the general plan and carve out that section. | 00:30:27 | |
Of the R 187. | 00:30:30 | |
In order to make that possible, you would have to do the general plan amendment. | 00:30:32 | |
That would likely also need to necessitate changing some other zone around it that's also within the R 187. | 00:30:37 | |
So that you don't create a spot zone. | 00:30:43 | |
And it would create a precedent in the holiday estates. | 00:30:46 | |
Our 187. | 00:30:50 | |
Protected zone to reduce the size down to one acre. | 00:30:51 | |
It would create that precedent and you know we talked about that in the pre meeting that. | 00:30:56 | |
You know those are the. | 00:31:00 | |
Those are the concerns that you're dealing with, right? And those are policy questions, right? And this body doesn't deal with | 00:31:01 | |
policy questions, it deals with the general. | 00:31:05 | |
Plan as it currently sits. | 00:31:09 | |
And it deals with these zones as they currently sit in the zoning map. | 00:31:11 | |
And then it makes a recommendation to the City Council and if the City Council. | 00:31:15 | |
Determines that all of those policy questions should be answered in the affirmative. | 00:31:18 | |
Then they can go ahead and make those changes. | 00:31:23 | |
But this is what? | 00:31:25 | |
We're doing what we're doing our role tonight. | 00:31:27 | |
Or I should say, you're doing your role tonight. | 00:31:30 | |
And then the City Council will do their role and create policy or. | 00:31:32 | |
Not create policy. | 00:31:38 | |
Thank you enough. And with that question, yes, Sir. | 00:31:43 | |
Staff, can you pull up the zoning map or the general plan map just to show? | 00:31:45 | |
Kind of how this leads because I'm. | 00:31:49 | |
Curious that they're saying there's a lot of acre lots around this. | 00:31:51 | |
OK, because I only see a small fraction of the front. | 00:31:57 | |
The West side of this lot. | 00:32:01 | |
Being adjacent to the one acre. | 00:32:03 | |
You could do the one that was on the first page that shows. | 00:32:12 | |
That blows it up, that. | 00:32:15 | |
Yeah, that one, correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think the issue is, is that those lots that are one acre nearby are legal, non | 00:32:18 | |
conforming, True. And I'm just trying to make sure that's the case. Yeah, 'cause, yeah. | 00:32:23 | |
I think yes. | 00:32:28 | |
There's Sorry, go ahead. | 00:32:30 | |
In the R 187 there is a lot. | 00:32:32 | |
Of non conforming parcels, legal, legal, legal nonconforming. They were there when the R 187 zone was established. They were known | 00:32:37 | |
and the R 187 was acknowledging those and saying yes, we are creating legal nonconforming parcels. | 00:32:46 | |
But we don't. | 00:32:55 | |
We want to maintain a 2 acre zone. | 00:32:56 | |
If the. | 00:33:00 | |
Decision at the time was OK. There's a lot of. | 00:33:03 | |
One acre properties here and we want. | 00:33:07 | |
To have this all be one acre par. | 00:33:09 | |
Parcels that zone could have been established at. | 00:33:12 | |
That point as well. | 00:33:15 | |
But umm. | 00:33:17 | |
Where it was like the. | 00:33:18 | |
The interface of. | 00:33:22 | |
Non conforming parcels and still establishing an R187 zone. | 00:33:24 | |
That included those. | 00:33:29 | |
Non conforming parcels to the zone that was being established. | 00:33:32 | |
Is clear, but it communicates we want to retain. | 00:33:37 | |
Two acre lots in this area. So this has been a part of the council discussion that. | 00:33:41 | |
They keep the R 187. | 00:33:46 | |
Yeah. And regardless of the underlying lot sizes that are there, yeah, and that. | 00:33:50 | |
I looked at a study in 2005 of the non conforming lots in the R 187 zone. | 00:33:55 | |
But it's always been maintained as we want to keep this as our 187 even with those non conforming parcels. | 00:34:02 | |
I mean, I appreciate the applicants discussion and the intent of what they're trying to do. | 00:34:10 | |
I always worry that when you start to. | 00:34:15 | |
Do something like this that it starts to set. | 00:34:17 | |
And a difficult precedent that. | 00:34:20 | |
Starts to have future consequences by. | 00:34:23 | |
Encroaching into the two acre zoning with one acre. | 00:34:27 | |
And suddenly. | 00:34:31 | |
Neighbors in the future are just going to have to are doing the same thing. | 00:34:32 | |
And I don't want the underintended consequence of one action like this to create that type of thing, so. | 00:34:36 | |
I'm concerned about that. | 00:34:42 | |
Other Commissioner questions for staff or counsel on this. | 00:34:47 | |
Other Commissioner comments. | 00:34:51 | |
I just want to make sure that I'm understanding. | 00:34:54 | |
That they built on the parcels. | 00:34:57 | |
So they purchased the parcels knowing that they were two acres. | 00:35:00 | |
Then they built the homes and the driveway. | 00:35:04 | |
With the intent. | 00:35:07 | |
Of changing the property line after the building took place. | 00:35:09 | |
Be using it the way we happen, which is. | 00:35:17 | |
OK. So there was never like an intention to sell or anything. I understand that. So you didn't think that it would ever be? | 00:35:24 | |
An issue having. | 00:35:30 | |
Only a 20 foot. | 00:35:32 | |
Sorry if you're addressing the applicant, we need the applicant to come back up to the podium please. | 00:35:33 | |
It makes minutes a lot easier when. Thank you for that question. | 00:35:40 | |
Thanks for that question. | 00:35:43 | |
It was discussed. | 00:35:45 | |
With Jim Dreyfus, when he sold the land to us, we said we only want one acre. | 00:35:47 | |
1/3 he said. Well, we can. | 00:35:52 | |
We can do that. That's not a problem. So it's actually in the CC and ours. | 00:35:54 | |
We can split it down. | 00:35:59 | |
We didn't think through the. | 00:36:01 | |
Process of actually having to rezone the. | 00:36:03 | |
I think he was thinking it's his PUD. | 00:36:07 | |
You know he can do what he wants. | 00:36:10 | |
Right. That's probably what happened. Now that I'm I'm wondering if there's specific details in your CC and Rs about that process? | 00:36:12 | |
Sounds like when you talk to Jim. | 00:36:20 | |
To answer straightforward, though, we bought the four acres altogether. | 00:36:23 | |
And I was trying to develop a family compound. | 00:36:27 | |
And so it was, these are 4 acres. We need a lot of land. We want a big property. We wanted multiple homes. And then. | 00:36:31 | |
Looked into it was like oh this is really only for two homes. | 00:36:38 | |
So originally I thought of even doing 3. | 00:36:41 | |
But it was like, OK, it's not going to allow three, this is 2, but we could divide it. So there's a smaller lot for my parents in | 00:36:44 | |
a larger lot for me. | 00:36:47 | |
That was our intention. | 00:36:51 | |
You know, and so, yeah, we started building. | 00:36:52 | |
With that intention. | 00:36:55 | |
Looks to me like the fellow who sell to us who was a great guy. | 00:36:57 | |
Was thinking in terms of DVD. He would have said, you know, you're going to have to rezone this. | 00:37:01 | |
Yeah. And that's kind of what as you were talking about the story in history there was like, OK, putting the pieces together and I | 00:37:05 | |
didn't run into that until I was researching the property and. | 00:37:10 | |
Past reasons. | 00:37:16 | |
Kind of what was established there so. | 00:37:18 | |
I think that there's there is a. | 00:37:20 | |
Forward it just takes a different route and some coordination and it wouldn't cause the problem here. | 00:37:22 | |
You're thinking about it. | 00:37:29 | |
They would went with the PUD apparent. | 00:37:30 | |
And it's not a rezoning. | 00:37:32 | |
It's not right. Yeah, I appreciate that. I'm just saying that. | 00:37:33 | |
The way you're, yeah. | 00:37:37 | |
Approaching this, that does create a problem. | 00:37:39 | |
Even if it's open space, I see your point. Yeah, because it creates an underlying. | 00:37:43 | |
Type of belief that this can encroach further and further. | 00:37:49 | |
And I think it goes against what the city's ultimate. | 00:37:53 | |
Goal was to preserve this area. | 00:37:56 | |
And as soon as you start nibbling pieces out, all of a sudden fractures where there is a clear divining a dividing line. | 00:37:59 | |
Of which is one acre versus 2 acre. | 00:38:06 | |
And that becomes very blurred. | 00:38:10 | |
And me, as a part of the Planning Commission, don't want to have that happen. | 00:38:12 | |
So that's why I'm very cautious when we're looking at something like this. | 00:38:16 | |
I appreciate. | 00:38:20 | |
The situation you're in and what you're trying to do and. | 00:38:21 | |
Logically, that makes perfect sense, and maybe illogically some of the things we have to deal with. | 00:38:25 | |
Is this so? | 00:38:31 | |
Were there any other further questions for the applicant? Whether? | 00:38:33 | |
You're still up at the podium. | 00:38:36 | |
No, OK, we'll have him just a town then. Thank you so much. | 00:38:37 | |
All right, Commissioners, further discussion on this then. | 00:38:41 | |
Everybody got all their answers, know where they're going. | 00:38:45 | |
Then I will invite and entertain any motion anybody's ready to make. | 00:38:48 | |
This is Commissioner Prince. | 00:38:52 | |
I motion to forward a negative recommendation to the City Council. | 00:38:54 | |
On the application by C Randall Paul to amend holiday zoning map for 2.06 acres of land located at 2232 E Pheasant Way. | 00:38:59 | |
From R187 to R143. | 00:39:08 | |
Based upon the following findings that are listed in the staff report, particularly. | 00:39:12 | |
That this. | 00:39:17 | |
Would go against the general plan. | 00:39:19 | |
And cause a reduction in lot size that could lead to future. | 00:39:22 | |
Development. | 00:39:28 | |
In the future. | 00:39:29 | |
This is Commissioner Barrett. I'll second it. | 00:39:31 | |
All right, we have a motion in a second. We'll go ahead and call for a vote. We'll start down here. Commissioner Cunningham. Hi, | 00:39:33 | |
Mr. Bill Tinsky. Aye. Mr. Flaunt. Aye. | 00:39:37 | |
Commissioner Prince Aye, Commissioner Barrett. | 00:39:41 | |
And Chair Roach votes aye. So with that, we will forward a negative recommendation to City Council and. | 00:39:43 | |
Invite you to. | 00:39:49 | |
Speak with them further about it and thank you very much for. | 00:39:51 | |
Speaking with us tonight. | 00:39:54 | |
With that, we will move into the second item on our agenda, which is the approval of minutes. We have to do these one at a time. | 00:39:56 | |
So do we have to get a second on each one of these? | 00:40:05 | |
We do OK so. | 00:40:08 | |
With that, we decided that on the. | 00:40:11 | |
Approval of minutes for 11/19 that it was Commissioner Barrett that filled in the blank, is that right? | 00:40:14 | |
Just blank. I'm always trying. | 00:40:20 | |
All right, fair enough. So with that, is there any other amendments needed on that in those minutes? | 00:40:24 | |
And would someone care to make a motion on that? | 00:40:30 | |
Commissioner Prince, I'll motion that we approve the minutes from. | 00:40:32 | |
Whatever date we're talking about. | 00:40:37 | |
11:19, 11/19/24. | 00:40:38 | |
I'll second that motion. All right, and we have a second can all in favor say aye, aye, OK, perfect. That one worked. All right, | 00:40:42 | |
so we'll do it again on 12/2. Any adjustments? | 00:40:47 | |
Motion. | 00:40:52 | |
Well, I make the motion that we approve the minutes from 12:00 to. | 00:40:56 | |
I'll second, all right. Font made the motion, and Baron seconded. All in favor say aye aye. | 00:41:00 | |
And then on the third list of minutes from January 7th. | 00:41:06 | |
Any adjustments there? | 00:41:11 | |
Motion, I recommend approval of that. | 00:41:14 | |
Mr. Barrett makes motion. | 00:41:16 | |
Commissioner, font seconds all in favor, aye? | 00:41:18 | |
And with that, that is the totality of our agenda and I move to adjourn. All in favor say aye. | 00:41:21 | |
Done and done. Thank you very much. | 00:41:28 |
* you need to log in to manage your favorites
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Loading...
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Loading...
All right, Well, good evening, everyone. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission, February 4th, 2025. | 00:00:00 | |
We have all commissioners in attendance, less Commissioner Gong, who sent her regrets. | 00:00:07 | |
And we have. | 00:00:11 | |
Action-packed agenda of two items today with. | 00:00:13 | |
Public hearing on his own amendment. | 00:00:17 | |
And then an action item for approval of minutes. And I have asked Vice Chair, Commissioner Prince if she would read for us. | 00:00:20 | |
The notice we give to all members of the public that attend this meeting. | 00:00:28 | |
The City of Holiday Planning Commission is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special | 00:00:32 | |
studies. | 00:00:36 | |
Make recommendations to the City Council on proposed zoning map and ordinance changes. | 00:00:40 | |
And approve conditional uses and subdivisions. | 00:00:45 | |
The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications. | 00:00:49 | |
Rather. | 00:00:52 | |
Commissioners do not meet with applicants except at publicly noticed meetings. | 00:00:56 | |
Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda where the location, the nature of the neighborhood. | 00:01:00 | |
Existing structures and uses related to the proposed changes are noted. | 00:01:06 | |
Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff. | 00:01:11 | |
The city's general plan, zoning ordinance and other reports. | 00:01:16 | |
By all verbal and written comments and by evidence submitted, all of which are part of the public record. | 00:01:20 | |
Thank you very much. | 00:01:27 | |
And with that, we will roll into our first item on the agenda, which is the zone map amendment for Rezone and we will ask city | 00:01:30 | |
staff. | 00:01:36 | |
If they will give us an overview of this item. | 00:01:41 | |
Sorry, I forgot to turn on the cameras. | 00:01:48 | |
Let me get that set and then I will. | 00:01:52 | |
I see the blue light I think we're on. | 00:01:57 | |
Sorry for the delay. | 00:02:01 | |
All right. | 00:02:35 | |
Just that last item, Cameras. | 00:02:47 | |
For it all right. So this application is for a zone map amendment. | 00:02:49 | |
For the property located at 2232 E Pheasant Way. | 00:02:56 | |
In the R 187 zone and the request is to rezone from R187 with A2 acre minimum lot size. | 00:03:01 | |
To our 1:43. | 00:03:09 | |
The intent of the rezone is to reduce the land area required to facilitate. | 00:03:15 | |
A property line shift between two neighboring properties. | 00:03:23 | |
Just a little background on the area, this is the Estates area and in the general plan for holiday. | 00:03:27 | |
This is identified as country estates protected. | 00:03:36 | |
The area is largely serviced by private lanes, has a dense mature tree canopy and large parcels. | 00:03:40 | |
When the city incorporated in 1999, there was an intentional zoning pattern where. | 00:03:48 | |
Areas. | 00:03:57 | |
Designated with a zone with a minimum lot size larger than even some of the lots. So there is a lot of non conforming lots | 00:04:00 | |
created. | 00:04:03 | |
When the city was incorporated. | 00:04:07 | |
The intent of that was. | 00:04:09 | |
To prevent mass subdividing of property. | 00:04:12 | |
Was a large part of the reason for incorporating from Salt Lake County. | 00:04:16 | |
To be able to control that subdivision of land. | 00:04:20 | |
Some more contextual background specific to this property and some neighbors. | 00:04:26 | |
In 2007. | 00:04:33 | |
Planned unit development was approved for. | 00:04:35 | |
5 units on 15.75 acres of land. | 00:04:39 | |
So that was the property that was directly to the South and then the two lots that. | 00:04:44 | |
Were later subdivided. | 00:04:50 | |
And the PUD wasn't It was approved but wasn't ever recorded. | 00:04:52 | |
And the landowner there eventually wanted to create 2 lots for sale, and that's when these two lots were created, just under a | 00:04:56 | |
standard subdivision process instead of the planned unit development process. So the subdivision was created with those two lots, | 00:05:04 | |
each of them meeting the zone requirements of having two acres of land per Watt. | 00:05:11 | |
Within the general plan. | 00:05:20 | |
Country estates protected. The intent of that designation is to preserve existing large lot development patterns. | 00:05:23 | |
It calls out the mature tree canopy and ambiance created by a state type development on private lanes as being. | 00:05:32 | |
Protected features within that country's estates area. | 00:05:40 | |
Guidance there is that new development can be appropriate, appropriately accommodated. | 00:05:45 | |
Through utilizing unclaimed density by and not. | 00:05:51 | |
Or let's see by subdivision and not by rezones. | 00:05:55 | |
So that's where you'll see like shifting of lot areas around. | 00:05:59 | |
And potentially new subdivisions created that way or from sub fighting larger parcels like the original 15 acre parcel. | 00:06:03 | |
Was a subdivision. New lots were created that way with that two acre standard. | 00:06:12 | |
The intent of that two acre standard was to preserve a lot of open space. | 00:06:19 | |
In our work meeting, we looked at lot coverage areas. | 00:06:23 | |
But that's a concern of the areas. | 00:06:27 | |
How much structure will cover a? | 00:06:29 | |
A particular parcel and basing that on percentage sizes so that there is a preservation of. | 00:06:33 | |
Open space on larger bots. | 00:06:39 | |
The analysis for the rezone was included in the staff report with rezone approval standards. | 00:06:45 | |
And the role of the Planning Commission tonight is then to make a recommendation to the City Council and. | 00:06:53 | |
I can have the applicant come up her and she can invite him. | 00:07:00 | |
OK. Well, thank you very much for that. And I think the the the bar has been set on what needs to be covered. | 00:07:02 | |
And we would love to hear from the applicant and. | 00:07:10 | |
Invite them up now. | 00:07:16 | |
Thank you for hearing this. | 00:07:23 | |
Application tonight. | 00:07:25 | |
I was on the. | 00:07:27 | |
Master plan committee. | 00:07:28 | |
Chairman, actually for the City of Highland, I just calculated 32 years ago. | 00:07:30 | |
And I admire master planning, so I understand what. | 00:07:36 | |
The city has tried to do and we're very happy that you're. | 00:07:41 | |
Holding to. | 00:07:44 | |
The standards. | 00:07:45 | |
I'm going to. | 00:07:46 | |
My name, by the way, is Randall Paul. | 00:07:49 | |
My wife and I live at 2232 Pheasant Way. | 00:07:51 | |
I don't know if you've seen this, but this picture is worth 1000 words so I'm going to. | 00:07:55 | |
Just give you these. | 00:08:00 | |
This is the current zoning. You'll see where the zoning. | 00:08:06 | |
The property line goes down. | 00:08:09 | |
Middle of the driveway. | 00:08:13 | |
The property that. | 00:08:15 | |
My daughter. | 00:08:17 | |
Thank you. And we're asking to move that property. | 00:08:19 | |
And I think we might have an image of that up on the TV as well. | 00:08:25 | |
That that to make you. | 00:08:29 | |
Property line to a three acre. One acre. | 00:08:37 | |
Location her, she has the estate, we have a smaller. | 00:08:41 | |
Development there and we bought it. | 00:08:45 | |
At the same time and we were going to subdivide it and. | 00:08:47 | |
Not subdivided. We thought we were only going to make a property line shift and we found we had to go through this process. | 00:08:51 | |
So. | 00:08:57 | |
I've looked into. | 00:08:59 | |
The situation and I think you'll see. | 00:09:01 | |
That we've just heard what the general plan is for this area. | 00:09:04 | |
And that this. | 00:09:08 | |
Will not change any. | 00:09:10 | |
Building whatsoever, we're not planning on changing anything. | 00:09:12 | |
Other than moving. | 00:09:16 | |
The property line to a three acre. | 00:09:18 | |
One acre ownership. | 00:09:20 | |
So the trees are there. | 00:09:24 | |
There will be no new development. | 00:09:27 | |
We're not asking for that. | 00:09:29 | |
In fact, if you'll see the center portion. | 00:09:30 | |
No build area. | 00:09:37 | |
Seriously. | 00:09:40 | |
In other words, either. | 00:09:42 | |
We would not want anyone to. | 00:09:44 | |
Build on that property, come in years from now and say, well we've got an acre now, we've got 3 acres, we're going to. | 00:09:46 | |
Cut down one acre. | 00:09:52 | |
We'll build on it. | 00:09:54 | |
We will make a permanent easement on that ourselves because we wouldn't want that to happen either, right? | 00:09:56 | |
Don't want our view of the mountain to be blocked by a house right in our front yard? | 00:10:02 | |
So there are two issues that I've looked at and I. | 00:10:06 | |
From a planning standpoint. | 00:10:09 | |
I really believe. | 00:10:11 | |
That if you wanted to stipulate that we put a permanent no build easement. | 00:10:13 | |
On the. | 00:10:19 | |
The three acre portion. | 00:10:20 | |
That leaves an acre in front. We'd be glad to do that, right? | 00:10:22 | |
If you're concerned that someone might come in later and say, oh, we've got 3 acres. | 00:10:25 | |
Now we'll cut it down to two. | 00:10:30 | |
And give someone the land that would be. | 00:10:32 | |
I think they'd be crazy, but. | 00:10:35 | |
You know they'd say well. | 00:10:38 | |
To make money will. | 00:10:40 | |
We'll try to sell an acre off and yes, that'll cut right through the middle of our driveway. | 00:10:43 | |
In other words, it's to me it's not even a realistic option. | 00:10:48 | |
But I'm trying to. | 00:10:52 | |
Face any criticism of our plan. | 00:10:54 | |
That somehow it would hurt the city in any way. | 00:10:57 | |
So our intent is simply to move the property line. | 00:11:02 | |
OK, well, I appreciate the narrative and I'm going to ask my fellow commissioners if they have any questions for you. The 1st I | 00:11:06 | |
just. | 00:11:10 | |
I want to make sure I understand because you kind of talked around some things there, but. | 00:11:15 | |
If the intent is not. | 00:11:20 | |
If the intent is to continue to have this be open space, I guess the real question I would have is. | 00:11:22 | |
Why do you need the property line moved? | 00:11:28 | |
My daughter is. | 00:11:31 | |
We went through a divorce last year and they're selling their house. | 00:11:33 | |
And the house is. | 00:11:37 | |
Is would be much more sellable. | 00:11:39 | |
The size of their property and all the property on it. With a three acre parcel, that's what they've always wanted. | 00:11:42 | |
Between us, we were always going to do this. | 00:11:48 | |
And now it's become immediately needful. | 00:11:50 | |
To do this. | 00:11:53 | |
So we've got a bigger property. | 00:11:54 | |
We have a smaller property. | 00:11:57 | |
And it's more sellable certainly to. | 00:11:59 | |
OK. As you can see, it'd be very difficult to sell this with a property line where it currently is. | 00:12:02 | |
Down. It's about 25 feet off the house. | 00:12:06 | |
In the middle of their driveway. | 00:12:10 | |
OK, So all right, I appreciate that. I just. | 00:12:13 | |
Like I said, I'm trying to just kind of wrap my head around the the why behind the what with it a little bit more. Sorry, I should | 00:12:16 | |
have given the background. | 00:12:20 | |
So I appreciate that. | 00:12:24 | |
Fellow commissioners, do you have any questions for the applicant? I've got a question. What year did you and your daughter | 00:12:26 | |
purchase these two parcels? | 00:12:31 | |
She bought them. | 00:12:36 | |
In I think the spring and we. | 00:12:37 | |
Got ours in 2017 so. | 00:12:41 | |
Few months apart. | 00:12:43 | |
OK. So at the time, were you aware of the zoning? | 00:12:44 | |
I'm sorry, if you're going to address the Commission, we're going to need just for the recording, yeah. | 00:12:52 | |
And if you'll just state your name, address. Thank you. | 00:12:56 | |
Yes. So I'm Jade and Alan. | 00:13:01 | |
Snow now formerly Romney. | 00:13:04 | |
And when we purchased the land originally, we purchased all four acres at once and Jim who sold us the land. | 00:13:07 | |
Always knew that our plan was to have my parents on one acre and we would take the three acres because. | 00:13:14 | |
They were older, didn't want as much land to maintain. | 00:13:21 | |
And he thought we had a good argument, though it was zoned for two, two acre lots. | 00:13:24 | |
He thought all along, since all of the homes touching. | 00:13:29 | |
Our property, except his, are all one acre lots. | 00:13:33 | |
He thought it would be easy to get it rezone so when we first purchased it he even wrote that in our CC and ours. He was like Yep | 00:13:36 | |
this can be divided. However they'll just need to go through this process. We can't build them. | 00:13:43 | |
He didn't want anymore structures. The idea was only one home with a guesthouse. | 00:13:49 | |
Or approved structure on each two acre. | 00:13:54 | |
Divide, but now it would be divided in a one and a three since we wanted more land. | 00:13:58 | |
That's that simple. So we always assumed we'd go through this process and that it would have been straightforward given its | 00:14:04 | |
adjoining one acre zoning on most sides. | 00:14:09 | |
But. | 00:14:14 | |
Yeah, here we are. | 00:14:15 | |
OK. Appreciate that backdrop and I can answer anymore. Thank you. | 00:14:17 | |
I have a question. Yeah. | 00:14:21 | |
Have you explored ways of? | 00:14:22 | |
Getting what you want without a rezone. | 00:14:25 | |
Yes. So we looked into just a lot line adjustment. | 00:14:28 | |
And why did that not work? | 00:14:32 | |
Because the whole issue was. | 00:14:35 | |
The lot line adjustment would put us in a. | 00:14:38 | |
Yes, sure. So the just doing the lot line adjustment wouldn't be approved because it would create a non conforming lot to the | 00:14:44 | |
zone. So you have to have your zone and. | 00:14:50 | |
The the lot size has to comply with that. | 00:14:56 | |
We didn't ask, we thought. | 00:15:00 | |
I can I can add just a comment here so it sounds like. | 00:15:05 | |
Possibly the previous property owner who was. | 00:15:08 | |
Facilitating the PUD. | 00:15:12 | |
That was the impression that then. | 00:15:15 | |
These two lots could do that same PUD process. | 00:15:17 | |
So that may be the better route for the applicant is to work with the neighboring property owner and do a PUD for the whole thing. | 00:15:23 | |
Because that's really the only way to make. | 00:15:34 | |
A non conforming property within a. | 00:15:38 | |
Our 187 zone. | 00:15:43 | |
So and. | 00:15:51 | |
That was what I was talking about in the staff report and some of that background history with the property. So planned unit | 00:15:52 | |
development is? | 00:15:57 | |
A PUD. It allows you to create. | 00:16:02 | |
You want to explain what specific? Yeah, so it's. | 00:16:07 | |
Instead of having, you don't have to adhere strictly to the. | 00:16:12 | |
Minimum requirements for a zone so you there's flexibility with setbacks. Property size. | 00:16:17 | |
I'm trying to think what else those are the main things. St. frontage is another one. | 00:16:25 | |
Umm in exchange for meeting the goals of a planned unit development, which is open space preservation of natural features. | 00:16:30 | |
So that type of an application was previously applied for for this area. | 00:16:39 | |
And then when that property owner wanted to sell these two lots and create these two lots. | 00:16:46 | |
Instead of continuing with the PUD process and just changing what was previously approved on that. | 00:16:53 | |
They did a. | 00:17:00 | |
Subdivision under a standard subdivision. | 00:17:02 | |
Instead of a PUD. | 00:17:05 | |
So a PUD is a conditional use permit. | 00:17:07 | |
But it's a subdivision that's paired with the conditional use. | 00:17:11 | |
And that allows for some flexibility of the underlying zone requirements. | 00:17:14 | |
Right, because you have to have a minimum area for doing a PUD, so just in the R 187 zone. | 00:17:21 | |
You have to have 6 acres. | 00:17:30 | |
So your two properties by themselves at just over 4 acres wouldn't qualify for the minimum area it would require. | 00:17:33 | |
Both of you and your neighboring property owner with I think he has seven acres currently, I believe, yeah. | 00:17:43 | |
So Jim Dreyfuss, my one question on that. | 00:17:52 | |
To two acre lots, so the four acres. | 00:17:57 | |
The year before he sold A1 acre lot that's touching us, so he broke off that vibe and and made it into five lots. | 00:17:59 | |
I mean 5. | 00:18:07 | |
Yeah. And when I was looking at the file on that like. | 00:18:08 | |
Your two lots was previously one light or is configured in a different way. | 00:18:12 | |
So it's just that instead of doing the PUD process to change it as to. | 00:18:17 | |
However, this layout was. They just said let's just do a. | 00:18:24 | |
Standard subdivision. | 00:18:28 | |
Because these two lots will create will be minimum lot size requirements and it's only a total of 5 acres which isn't the six | 00:18:30 | |
which is the minimum required amount. | 00:18:34 | |
Yes, so why would he want to work with us to do it now that he's already? Yeah, that's why I'm saying I like there's. | 00:18:39 | |
Yeah, that is. That is a potential way to address this issue in a different way, but you would have to work with. | 00:18:47 | |
Some other neighboring land owners to have enough minimum land area. | 00:18:56 | |
For a planned unit development. | 00:19:00 | |
Because I know he doesn't want to break up his existence, right? And he doesn't have to. | 00:19:02 | |
Yes, it would just be. | 00:19:07 | |
So. | 00:19:10 | |
Creative of a new PD? Yes. | 00:19:12 | |
Yes. | 00:19:14 | |
So the PUD would include it could be all of these. You can keep all these together and you just change where you want your lot | 00:19:16 | |
lines to be between the two. | 00:19:20 | |
That is the simple. | 00:19:26 | |
Answer if you can were if that property owner is willing to do that. | 00:19:27 | |
So that said. | 00:19:33 | |
So that's like. | 00:19:34 | |
That was part of that confusion when you're saying, oh, this was always the plan. This was kind of what was told to us because | 00:19:36 | |
some of that may be coming from that PUD process of, yeah, we can move things around and there's flexibility there. | 00:19:44 | |
But it would have to be flexibility. | 00:19:52 | |
Under. | 00:19:54 | |
With just the minimum zone standards, it has to be the two acres. | 00:19:55 | |
So if you can loop in and create a PUD, that's. | 00:20:01 | |
Everybody's agreeable to then. | 00:20:04 | |
That would work. That's one option. | 00:20:06 | |
The given us you're saying we also have the 500 foot thing? | 00:20:11 | |
Sorry, where are you bringing all the neighbors? | 00:20:19 | |
Yes. | 00:20:25 | |
Yes, so and we can discuss a PUD process if that's any way we can discuss, right. So I mean at this point I'm just going to jump | 00:20:26 | |
in real quick and interrupt here and I'm just going to say so staff is. | 00:20:33 | |
Outlined a very clear argument that you have to overcome on the why. | 00:20:40 | |
And they are proposing right now an alternative to trying to overcome that argument before this Commission. | 00:20:45 | |
And you want to know our why? Or you're coming up with your why. | 00:20:53 | |
Well, they've outlined it in the staff report and she went over how it doesn't meet with the zone, the technical review committee, | 00:20:58 | |
all the other aspects of it that she initiated this with. | 00:21:03 | |
And you're making a case As for why your zone should be amended in spite of staff's argument. OK. And So what I'm saying is that | 00:21:07 | |
she has presented to you an alternative? | 00:21:13 | |
Instead of trying to overcome Staff's argument of why this isn't. | 00:21:19 | |
Positive recommendation being given by city staff. There might be an alternative solution, so before we move forward with the | 00:21:24 | |
process. | 00:21:28 | |
And spend any more time, I just want to ask the applicant. | 00:21:32 | |
If you are interested in withdrawing temporarily your request and exploring that alternative. | 00:21:36 | |
Or if you would just like move forward with potentially having. | 00:21:43 | |
Negative recommendation forward to City Council. | 00:21:47 | |
I think the question then, for us is a simple one. | 00:21:51 | |
If the City Council turns us down. | 00:21:54 | |
That would not aggregate our chance to come through. | 00:21:56 | |
That's true. | 00:22:00 | |
Since it would be much more difficult. | 00:22:03 | |
To go through this process again. | 00:22:05 | |
We'd rather go to the City Council with a turndown. | 00:22:07 | |
Given the what we think is effectively the exact same result that would occur. | 00:22:10 | |
Right. Either way, exact same result. There's slightly different result. | 00:22:16 | |
We would have created a precedent of not following the general plan. | 00:22:22 | |
Is it a general platform? | 00:22:27 | |
Yes, yes. | 00:22:28 | |
Absolutely yes, it 100% does not meet with the general plan. | 00:22:29 | |
Because it is a protected zone. | 00:22:36 | |
That your property lies within. | 00:22:39 | |
And there's already a precedent of other applicants who've come before you. | 00:22:41 | |
And been denied. | 00:22:46 | |
Trying to change the zone. | 00:22:48 | |
Question I had. | 00:22:50 | |
Here with respect to. | 00:22:51 | |
The general plan. | 00:22:52 | |
I believe the general plan is. | 00:22:54 | |
Is specifically this? | 00:22:55 | |
Dustin, open space. | 00:22:57 | |
And. | 00:22:59 | |
All the previous. | 00:23:01 | |
Applications have been for. | 00:23:03 | |
Development, and they've been turned down because of development. | 00:23:05 | |
We are not. | 00:23:09 | |
Developing anything, we are going to completely continue. | 00:23:10 | |
To keep this open space and we're going to make it legal. | 00:23:14 | |
So that's. | 00:23:18 | |
In terms of the general plan, I do believe I read it. | 00:23:21 | |
It's a question of development, not open space. | 00:23:23 | |
We are actually not. | 00:23:26 | |
We're not active applying for development. | 00:23:28 | |
And that we're not changing anything in the general plan. | 00:23:31 | |
With respect to what anyone will see. | 00:23:34 | |
Ever OK? | 00:23:37 | |
Well, and if you're if you're confident in that, like I'm happy to move forward. I just wanted to pause right there because we had | 00:23:38 | |
a nice long discussion about the alternative, but if. | 00:23:42 | |
We don't want to explore that at Test time and we just want to move forward. I'm just going to ask any other commissioners if they | 00:23:47 | |
have questions for the applicant before we move to the public hearing process, then no. | 00:23:51 | |
May I make one question and then you have a couple. | 00:23:56 | |
My question is, did what I just say make sense? | 00:24:00 | |
Sure, yes. | 00:24:03 | |
That's I just wanted to. | 00:24:05 | |
Yeah, and mine was just a simple comment to say, I think. | 00:24:07 | |
For those that aren't as educated on the things that my dad has read and obviously what all of you know. | 00:24:12 | |
What has been? | 00:24:18 | |
What I've been wanting to propose is just following the fact that our driveway literally is an easement in a. | 00:24:20 | |
Of a different zone, we have to pass one anchors to drive into our house. | 00:24:27 | |
That was sold by the same person as a connection to our land. | 00:24:31 | |
The zoning is literally on. | 00:24:35 | |
Property where it becomes something different and. | 00:24:38 | |
I understand for the protection. | 00:24:41 | |
Like like my father was saying. | 00:24:44 | |
Of development of open spaces. | 00:24:47 | |
There's a reason why there's always a point where it becomes a new zone. There's always going to be a line. I understand that line | 00:24:49 | |
happens to be on our yard. | 00:24:53 | |
And I'm hoping that if we can. | 00:24:57 | |
Honor, like he said, the exact things that are meant to be protected with that. | 00:25:00 | |
That then this is essentially a lot line adjustment just following it in the legal. | 00:25:04 | |
Pathway, you know. | 00:25:09 | |
Well, perfect. Well, we'll go ahead and yeah, thank you, guys. We'll invite you to sit down. Don't go too far because we're just | 00:25:11 | |
going to open the public. | 00:25:14 | |
Hearing for this. | 00:25:17 | |
And for those that do wish to make comment on this today, tonight. | 00:25:19 | |
We ask that you state your name and address when you come to the podium and keep your remarks. | 00:25:24 | |
To three minutes or less. And if you are going after someone else that's made comments, please don't restate the same comments. | 00:25:29 | |
And with that, it looks like we have a taker. | 00:25:33 | |
Leanne Stillman, 2149 E Pheasant Way. | 00:25:38 | |
I would like to start by thanking you for serving the community this way. I think Planning Commission is a fairly tough job. I've | 00:25:43 | |
been there. | 00:25:46 | |
And I would also like to state what fabulous neighbors the Paul family is. | 00:25:51 | |
They are, truly. | 00:25:56 | |
An asset. | 00:25:58 | |
And I'm really sad half of them are leaving. | 00:25:59 | |
I just want you to imagine that you approve this. | 00:26:02 | |
And that we have 3 acres on the east and one acre on the West. | 00:26:07 | |
And I believe Rand and. | 00:26:12 | |
Jan Paul And they say we're not going to develop it. | 00:26:14 | |
But they're saying that about an acre of land they're giving up. | 00:26:17 | |
And so now think about that three acre parcel that is acknowledged. | 00:26:23 | |
Is going to be sold. | 00:26:27 | |
If I'm the buyer. | 00:26:30 | |
I'm buying 3 acres in A2 acre zone. | 00:26:32 | |
The first thing I'm going to do is come to you and say wait a minute. | 00:26:36 | |
Only need 2 acres. | 00:26:40 | |
And you've already created one acre next door. | 00:26:42 | |
Give me the acre and the development rights for this one parcel. | 00:26:45 | |
And everything that attaches to it, I get to have the same right as anybody else who has an Aquarian holiday. | 00:26:49 | |
My concern has nothing to do with the. | 00:26:56 | |
Well-intentioned. It's the fact that these aren't the people that are going to be controlling it. | 00:26:59 | |
Believe them, but they're selling it. | 00:27:04 | |
And a three acre parcel. | 00:27:07 | |
In A2 acre demand. | 00:27:10 | |
Creates a very big unknown for us. | 00:27:12 | |
Thank you for all you do for us. | 00:27:16 | |
Thank you for your comments. | 00:27:18 | |
Do we have anyone else that's interested in making comment tonight? | 00:27:22 | |
You will at the end, yes. | 00:27:26 | |
So just making sure no other public comments, nobody bursting at scenes online. I'm just kidding. You guys can't do that. | 00:27:28 | |
So with that, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing then. Well, and then we'll invite you back to come up and address any of | 00:27:34 | |
the comments made. | 00:27:37 | |
Thanks Liane for your. | 00:27:46 | |
Neighborly response to our. | 00:27:50 | |
Application. | 00:27:52 | |
To say, and I perhaps wasn't clear at the beginning. | 00:27:54 | |
We are putting an HOA on this property. | 00:27:58 | |
Homeownership. | 00:28:01 | |
A permanent homeowners agreement. | 00:28:03 | |
Between the three acre and the one acre. | 00:28:05 | |
So that there will be. | 00:28:08 | |
A permanent no build easement. | 00:28:10 | |
In the deed. | 00:28:13 | |
On that property. | 00:28:14 | |
So that the three acre parcel when they buy it. | 00:28:15 | |
They will see. | 00:28:18 | |
Permanent No build in this section. | 00:28:19 | |
Property. | 00:28:23 | |
And that's what I said at the beginning that. | 00:28:32 | |
Came out with it too fast. | 00:28:34 | |
We would be happy to say. | 00:28:35 | |
We will have a stipulation. | 00:28:38 | |
Or this agreement that there will be illegal? | 00:28:40 | |
Permanent no build easement placed on that land. | 00:28:43 | |
For any future bill. | 00:28:46 | |
Fire. Fire of that property. | 00:28:47 | |
It's legal. | 00:28:49 | |
No, Bill. | 00:28:51 | |
OK. And it's permanent, so? | 00:28:53 | |
It can't be given away. That's a legal possibility. | 00:28:55 | |
That's what we want to do because it protects our view. | 00:28:58 | |
If we end up staying on that. | 00:29:01 | |
I hope that's clear. She. | 00:29:05 | |
She's absolutely right of what could happen. | 00:29:07 | |
But not when there's a permanent. | 00:29:09 | |
Nobilities amount. | 00:29:12 | |
And. | 00:29:14 | |
OK. | 00:29:19 | |
Well, with that public hearings closed and did we have any additional questions for the applicant? | 00:29:21 | |
Address that. | 00:29:26 | |
No build easement concept and that. | 00:29:28 | |
Wouldn't a future owner? | 00:29:31 | |
Become the HOA and could simply change the rules. | 00:29:33 | |
Well, it's if it's an HOA, sure. I mean you'd have to have unity of ownership again and then if. | 00:29:36 | |
Two homes were. | 00:29:42 | |
Owned by the same entity or the same individuals, they could. | 00:29:43 | |
Eliminate the boundary and then eliminate the easement and the HOA. | 00:29:47 | |
If it's an HOA, I mean it. | 00:29:52 | |
I don't know that it, I mean, I wouldn't recommend doing it the way he's suggesting, but that's. | 00:29:54 | |
Could you put a permanent no build area on it? Yes. Are there ways to get around it? | 00:29:59 | |
And then just to contrast that with what? But you would still have the problem to overcome of. | 00:30:05 | |
You know, granting additional additional lot. | 00:30:11 | |
Just because. | 00:30:14 | |
Let's just say, for example, that. | 00:30:16 | |
You know, this was approved by the council and the rezone was done. | 00:30:18 | |
You would create a one acre lot that would be. | 00:30:23 | |
You'd have to amend the general plan and carve out that section. | 00:30:27 | |
Of the R 187. | 00:30:30 | |
In order to make that possible, you would have to do the general plan amendment. | 00:30:32 | |
That would likely also need to necessitate changing some other zone around it that's also within the R 187. | 00:30:37 | |
So that you don't create a spot zone. | 00:30:43 | |
And it would create a precedent in the holiday estates. | 00:30:46 | |
Our 187. | 00:30:50 | |
Protected zone to reduce the size down to one acre. | 00:30:51 | |
It would create that precedent and you know we talked about that in the pre meeting that. | 00:30:56 | |
You know those are the. | 00:31:00 | |
Those are the concerns that you're dealing with, right? And those are policy questions, right? And this body doesn't deal with | 00:31:01 | |
policy questions, it deals with the general. | 00:31:05 | |
Plan as it currently sits. | 00:31:09 | |
And it deals with these zones as they currently sit in the zoning map. | 00:31:11 | |
And then it makes a recommendation to the City Council and if the City Council. | 00:31:15 | |
Determines that all of those policy questions should be answered in the affirmative. | 00:31:18 | |
Then they can go ahead and make those changes. | 00:31:23 | |
But this is what? | 00:31:25 | |
We're doing what we're doing our role tonight. | 00:31:27 | |
Or I should say, you're doing your role tonight. | 00:31:30 | |
And then the City Council will do their role and create policy or. | 00:31:32 | |
Not create policy. | 00:31:38 | |
Thank you enough. And with that question, yes, Sir. | 00:31:43 | |
Staff, can you pull up the zoning map or the general plan map just to show? | 00:31:45 | |
Kind of how this leads because I'm. | 00:31:49 | |
Curious that they're saying there's a lot of acre lots around this. | 00:31:51 | |
OK, because I only see a small fraction of the front. | 00:31:57 | |
The West side of this lot. | 00:32:01 | |
Being adjacent to the one acre. | 00:32:03 | |
You could do the one that was on the first page that shows. | 00:32:12 | |
That blows it up, that. | 00:32:15 | |
Yeah, that one, correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think the issue is, is that those lots that are one acre nearby are legal, non | 00:32:18 | |
conforming, True. And I'm just trying to make sure that's the case. Yeah, 'cause, yeah. | 00:32:23 | |
I think yes. | 00:32:28 | |
There's Sorry, go ahead. | 00:32:30 | |
In the R 187 there is a lot. | 00:32:32 | |
Of non conforming parcels, legal, legal, legal nonconforming. They were there when the R 187 zone was established. They were known | 00:32:37 | |
and the R 187 was acknowledging those and saying yes, we are creating legal nonconforming parcels. | 00:32:46 | |
But we don't. | 00:32:55 | |
We want to maintain a 2 acre zone. | 00:32:56 | |
If the. | 00:33:00 | |
Decision at the time was OK. There's a lot of. | 00:33:03 | |
One acre properties here and we want. | 00:33:07 | |
To have this all be one acre par. | 00:33:09 | |
Parcels that zone could have been established at. | 00:33:12 | |
That point as well. | 00:33:15 | |
But umm. | 00:33:17 | |
Where it was like the. | 00:33:18 | |
The interface of. | 00:33:22 | |
Non conforming parcels and still establishing an R187 zone. | 00:33:24 | |
That included those. | 00:33:29 | |
Non conforming parcels to the zone that was being established. | 00:33:32 | |
Is clear, but it communicates we want to retain. | 00:33:37 | |
Two acre lots in this area. So this has been a part of the council discussion that. | 00:33:41 | |
They keep the R 187. | 00:33:46 | |
Yeah. And regardless of the underlying lot sizes that are there, yeah, and that. | 00:33:50 | |
I looked at a study in 2005 of the non conforming lots in the R 187 zone. | 00:33:55 | |
But it's always been maintained as we want to keep this as our 187 even with those non conforming parcels. | 00:34:02 | |
I mean, I appreciate the applicants discussion and the intent of what they're trying to do. | 00:34:10 | |
I always worry that when you start to. | 00:34:15 | |
Do something like this that it starts to set. | 00:34:17 | |
And a difficult precedent that. | 00:34:20 | |
Starts to have future consequences by. | 00:34:23 | |
Encroaching into the two acre zoning with one acre. | 00:34:27 | |
And suddenly. | 00:34:31 | |
Neighbors in the future are just going to have to are doing the same thing. | 00:34:32 | |
And I don't want the underintended consequence of one action like this to create that type of thing, so. | 00:34:36 | |
I'm concerned about that. | 00:34:42 | |
Other Commissioner questions for staff or counsel on this. | 00:34:47 | |
Other Commissioner comments. | 00:34:51 | |
I just want to make sure that I'm understanding. | 00:34:54 | |
That they built on the parcels. | 00:34:57 | |
So they purchased the parcels knowing that they were two acres. | 00:35:00 | |
Then they built the homes and the driveway. | 00:35:04 | |
With the intent. | 00:35:07 | |
Of changing the property line after the building took place. | 00:35:09 | |
Be using it the way we happen, which is. | 00:35:17 | |
OK. So there was never like an intention to sell or anything. I understand that. So you didn't think that it would ever be? | 00:35:24 | |
An issue having. | 00:35:30 | |
Only a 20 foot. | 00:35:32 | |
Sorry if you're addressing the applicant, we need the applicant to come back up to the podium please. | 00:35:33 | |
It makes minutes a lot easier when. Thank you for that question. | 00:35:40 | |
Thanks for that question. | 00:35:43 | |
It was discussed. | 00:35:45 | |
With Jim Dreyfus, when he sold the land to us, we said we only want one acre. | 00:35:47 | |
1/3 he said. Well, we can. | 00:35:52 | |
We can do that. That's not a problem. So it's actually in the CC and ours. | 00:35:54 | |
We can split it down. | 00:35:59 | |
We didn't think through the. | 00:36:01 | |
Process of actually having to rezone the. | 00:36:03 | |
I think he was thinking it's his PUD. | 00:36:07 | |
You know he can do what he wants. | 00:36:10 | |
Right. That's probably what happened. Now that I'm I'm wondering if there's specific details in your CC and Rs about that process? | 00:36:12 | |
Sounds like when you talk to Jim. | 00:36:20 | |
To answer straightforward, though, we bought the four acres altogether. | 00:36:23 | |
And I was trying to develop a family compound. | 00:36:27 | |
And so it was, these are 4 acres. We need a lot of land. We want a big property. We wanted multiple homes. And then. | 00:36:31 | |
Looked into it was like oh this is really only for two homes. | 00:36:38 | |
So originally I thought of even doing 3. | 00:36:41 | |
But it was like, OK, it's not going to allow three, this is 2, but we could divide it. So there's a smaller lot for my parents in | 00:36:44 | |
a larger lot for me. | 00:36:47 | |
That was our intention. | 00:36:51 | |
You know, and so, yeah, we started building. | 00:36:52 | |
With that intention. | 00:36:55 | |
Looks to me like the fellow who sell to us who was a great guy. | 00:36:57 | |
Was thinking in terms of DVD. He would have said, you know, you're going to have to rezone this. | 00:37:01 | |
Yeah. And that's kind of what as you were talking about the story in history there was like, OK, putting the pieces together and I | 00:37:05 | |
didn't run into that until I was researching the property and. | 00:37:10 | |
Past reasons. | 00:37:16 | |
Kind of what was established there so. | 00:37:18 | |
I think that there's there is a. | 00:37:20 | |
Forward it just takes a different route and some coordination and it wouldn't cause the problem here. | 00:37:22 | |
You're thinking about it. | 00:37:29 | |
They would went with the PUD apparent. | 00:37:30 | |
And it's not a rezoning. | 00:37:32 | |
It's not right. Yeah, I appreciate that. I'm just saying that. | 00:37:33 | |
The way you're, yeah. | 00:37:37 | |
Approaching this, that does create a problem. | 00:37:39 | |
Even if it's open space, I see your point. Yeah, because it creates an underlying. | 00:37:43 | |
Type of belief that this can encroach further and further. | 00:37:49 | |
And I think it goes against what the city's ultimate. | 00:37:53 | |
Goal was to preserve this area. | 00:37:56 | |
And as soon as you start nibbling pieces out, all of a sudden fractures where there is a clear divining a dividing line. | 00:37:59 | |
Of which is one acre versus 2 acre. | 00:38:06 | |
And that becomes very blurred. | 00:38:10 | |
And me, as a part of the Planning Commission, don't want to have that happen. | 00:38:12 | |
So that's why I'm very cautious when we're looking at something like this. | 00:38:16 | |
I appreciate. | 00:38:20 | |
The situation you're in and what you're trying to do and. | 00:38:21 | |
Logically, that makes perfect sense, and maybe illogically some of the things we have to deal with. | 00:38:25 | |
Is this so? | 00:38:31 | |
Were there any other further questions for the applicant? Whether? | 00:38:33 | |
You're still up at the podium. | 00:38:36 | |
No, OK, we'll have him just a town then. Thank you so much. | 00:38:37 | |
All right, Commissioners, further discussion on this then. | 00:38:41 | |
Everybody got all their answers, know where they're going. | 00:38:45 | |
Then I will invite and entertain any motion anybody's ready to make. | 00:38:48 | |
This is Commissioner Prince. | 00:38:52 | |
I motion to forward a negative recommendation to the City Council. | 00:38:54 | |
On the application by C Randall Paul to amend holiday zoning map for 2.06 acres of land located at 2232 E Pheasant Way. | 00:38:59 | |
From R187 to R143. | 00:39:08 | |
Based upon the following findings that are listed in the staff report, particularly. | 00:39:12 | |
That this. | 00:39:17 | |
Would go against the general plan. | 00:39:19 | |
And cause a reduction in lot size that could lead to future. | 00:39:22 | |
Development. | 00:39:28 | |
In the future. | 00:39:29 | |
This is Commissioner Barrett. I'll second it. | 00:39:31 | |
All right, we have a motion in a second. We'll go ahead and call for a vote. We'll start down here. Commissioner Cunningham. Hi, | 00:39:33 | |
Mr. Bill Tinsky. Aye. Mr. Flaunt. Aye. | 00:39:37 | |
Commissioner Prince Aye, Commissioner Barrett. | 00:39:41 | |
And Chair Roach votes aye. So with that, we will forward a negative recommendation to City Council and. | 00:39:43 | |
Invite you to. | 00:39:49 | |
Speak with them further about it and thank you very much for. | 00:39:51 | |
Speaking with us tonight. | 00:39:54 | |
With that, we will move into the second item on our agenda, which is the approval of minutes. We have to do these one at a time. | 00:39:56 | |
So do we have to get a second on each one of these? | 00:40:05 | |
We do OK so. | 00:40:08 | |
With that, we decided that on the. | 00:40:11 | |
Approval of minutes for 11/19 that it was Commissioner Barrett that filled in the blank, is that right? | 00:40:14 | |
Just blank. I'm always trying. | 00:40:20 | |
All right, fair enough. So with that, is there any other amendments needed on that in those minutes? | 00:40:24 | |
And would someone care to make a motion on that? | 00:40:30 | |
Commissioner Prince, I'll motion that we approve the minutes from. | 00:40:32 | |
Whatever date we're talking about. | 00:40:37 | |
11:19, 11/19/24. | 00:40:38 | |
I'll second that motion. All right, and we have a second can all in favor say aye, aye, OK, perfect. That one worked. All right, | 00:40:42 | |
so we'll do it again on 12/2. Any adjustments? | 00:40:47 | |
Motion. | 00:40:52 | |
Well, I make the motion that we approve the minutes from 12:00 to. | 00:40:56 | |
I'll second, all right. Font made the motion, and Baron seconded. All in favor say aye aye. | 00:41:00 | |
And then on the third list of minutes from January 7th. | 00:41:06 | |
Any adjustments there? | 00:41:11 | |
Motion, I recommend approval of that. | 00:41:14 | |
Mr. Barrett makes motion. | 00:41:16 | |
Commissioner, font seconds all in favor, aye? | 00:41:18 | |
And with that, that is the totality of our agenda and I move to adjourn. All in favor say aye. | 00:41:21 | |
Done and done. Thank you very much. | 00:41:28 |