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This is a work session to order. | 00:00:00 | |
On January 9th. | 00:00:02 | |
Welcome everybody. | 00:00:06 | |
Umm. | 00:00:10 | |
You weren't? Yeah. | 00:00:12 | |
Real quick, We do have a quick. | 00:00:21 | |
Well, uh. | 00:00:24 | |
We hope it's a quick closed session. We'll see. | 00:00:25 | |
And before we move to Item 2 on the agenda, we're just going to do a quick. | 00:00:28 | |
The non disclosure agreement or disclosure agreement. | 00:00:33 | |
Yes, Todd, yes. | 00:00:36 | |
Yeah, go ahead. | 00:00:41 | |
Last year, the state Legislature adopted the Department for disclosures for all elected officials. | 00:00:42 | |
And so your disclosure form is a little different than what you've seen in the past and it's different than what the staff will | 00:00:48 | |
sign this year. | 00:00:51 | |
Everything that you need to disclose on this form, one of the things you will see. | 00:00:54 | |
What the Legislature did. | 00:01:01 | |
It requires you to disclose your spouse's employment. | 00:01:03 | |
If there is any. | 00:01:06 | |
On the form. | 00:01:08 | |
Otherwise, I think it'll all be familiar to you. I don't think it's anything. | 00:01:09 | |
New or different? But you should be aware that these disclosures now get published with the state. | 00:01:13 | |
So and on their website. | 00:01:21 | |
Yeah. So they're easier to access I think than they were previously. | 00:01:23 | |
Neither good nor bad. It's just as well like on a website with and they can find them on the city website also. They've always | 00:01:28 | |
been able to do that. | 00:01:32 | |
It's not that big of a change. | 00:01:36 | |
But we just wanted to make you aware it's a new statutory requirement. | 00:01:39 | |
These will we need these. | 00:01:41 | |
Within the next few days because they have to be published with the state before the end of this month. | 00:01:44 | |
And that will be the drill now going forward. | 00:01:50 | |
Year, so is the previous employment, regardless of how long ago that month. | 00:01:52 | |
I would. | 00:01:56 | |
I would use your judgment. If it's 30 five years ago, I don't know that I'd worry about it. | 00:01:59 | |
This year's 5 1/2 years, I think it's been while you've been on the council. Yes, I would do it. Yep. | 00:02:02 | |
Employing the house by Yes, correct. | 00:02:12 | |
So as you go through this, if you don't, if you have more questions, you can ask to write tonight and if you don't finish filling | 00:02:17 | |
out I just. | 00:02:20 | |
If you want to scan it and send it to me or if you want to bring it in, I will come and get it from you since we're so late. | 00:02:23 | |
So. | 00:02:28 | |
But if you have any questions. | 00:02:30 | |
Thank you. Thanks, Todd. | 00:02:34 | |
Obviously. | 00:02:36 | |
Yes. | 00:02:40 | |
But it is a lot more in depth than. | 00:02:41 | |
It might take a little longer. | 00:02:45 | |
What? | 00:02:50 | |
The president of Todd Gottfried phone calls. | 00:02:54 | |
Groupie. | 00:03:04 | |
OK, all right. Well, I guess we are doing the City Hall thing. | 00:03:06 | |
Right. Hopefully like on January 5th or 6th or 7th of next year, sometime around there they start. | 00:03:11 | |
Anything important about that date there? Yes. | 00:03:20 | |
As excited as I am about this. | 00:03:25 | |
It's going to be interesting year or so, 14 months. | 00:03:28 | |
Yeah. | 00:03:34 | |
And so. | 00:03:51 | |
So. | 00:04:02 | |
What we wanted to bring to the Council's attention is primarily that. | 00:04:03 | |
Having worked through all the seismic upgrades and kind of the impact. | 00:04:07 | |
In what the building would be. | 00:04:11 | |
The primary thing that. | 00:04:13 | |
Is going to happen is that? | 00:04:15 | |
The main corridors. | 00:04:16 | |
Most likely be fully demolished and have to be rebuilt. | 00:04:19 | |
Because the seismic walls will be kind of being, we're going to be basically building. | 00:04:22 | |
Are upgrading these internal walls on both sides from from basement all the way to group? | 00:04:27 | |
And so. | 00:04:34 | |
Because of that. | 00:04:35 | |
You know, we were kind of. | 00:04:37 | |
Talking with the kind of administration team and what are the implications? Pictures. | 00:04:38 | |
OK, how do we then reconstruct the hallway in particular? | 00:04:42 | |
Which is kind of the public experience of this place. | 00:04:46 | |
And so there's the option to kind of. | 00:04:49 | |
Literally rebuild it passives. | 00:04:51 | |
Which is this kind of copper ceiling, but as we were going through the existing photos as well as the kind of documentation and | 00:04:54 | |
the original building. | 00:04:57 | |
So in the first page which you might have seen. | 00:05:02 | |
That's all of the original kind of actually drawings of the original building and lease site which started. | 00:05:05 | |
I mean the additions which. | 00:05:11 | |
Show the kind of corridor condition which was actually supposed to be. | 00:05:12 | |
A ^2 ceiling with kind of a kind of a cornice detail around. | 00:05:17 | |
And then when we looked at the photos of the hallway. | 00:05:22 | |
It was also kind of a square thing, so the kind of Dome shape was introduced by the architects in the addition that you guys did | 00:05:26 | |
when you converted a building from. | 00:05:30 | |
Elementary school to your kind of administrative office, so. | 00:05:35 | |
We were thinking, kind of our take was that if we're going to have to rebuild the entire hallway, we might bring back some of that | 00:05:39 | |
original character using both. | 00:05:43 | |
The inspirations from the original drawings, but. | 00:05:48 | |
If you go to. | 00:05:51 | |
The next page. | 00:05:52 | |
The next one. | 00:05:55 | |
So what we did is we developed some schemes where we were looking. | 00:05:59 | |
The irony is that all the original photos or the photos that were taken during the demolition didn't actually show. | 00:06:03 | |
The transition between. | 00:06:09 | |
Like how the school would have looked. | 00:06:12 | |
When it was built and then the addition for the school before it became converted so. | 00:06:14 | |
What we were hoping to do is then take a look at. | 00:06:20 | |
Similar buildings built around that time and kind of what type of kind of material quality and polling they would do. And so | 00:06:22 | |
that's kind of our decision making for how we are proposing some options to you. | 00:06:28 | |
So in the first option you'll see kind of weak development. See. | 00:06:33 | |
In the first option, what we're calling kind of a minimalist scheme is that. | 00:06:37 | |
We looked at buildings that were built kind of in that time around the 1920s and 30s. | 00:06:41 | |
And oftentimes what the floors would be would be some kind of monolithic teroxome. | 00:06:45 | |
It was really durable and then. | 00:06:50 | |
Would you get a cleaning right? | 00:06:53 | |
The drawings original drawings showed like a marble. | 00:06:55 | |
And obviously we thought cost wise we're not going to propose like marble floors. | 00:06:58 | |
But we felt like we wanted to do something that maybe upgrades and then also becomes actually a little bit more durable or easy to | 00:07:05 | |
clean than the floors that you have. So the high cleft, the bees original floors means that. | 00:07:11 | |
Honestly, when you're mopping or whatever dirt, it's honestly always going to get into those clefts and it's gonna really be hard | 00:07:18 | |
to feel like it's clean, clean. | 00:07:22 | |
And So what we have as our first option is, is. | 00:07:25 | |
Large format, it's a porcelain child that looks like a Toronto. So it's just going to be not the cost of Toronto, but again. | 00:07:28 | |
Going to give us a kind of really similar look. | 00:07:34 | |
And we're going to, we were proposing this one. It comes in a really large format of 24 by 24. | 00:07:36 | |
So that you could set it with a really tight grout joint and just becomes kind of monolithic. | 00:07:42 | |
Through the hallway. | 00:07:47 | |
And so we did develop some imagery using this tile so you can see what that might look like. | 00:07:48 | |
We called us a minimalist scheme because. | 00:07:54 | |
We do want to keep the molding which we feel is actually the most kind of true to the character of the original building and what | 00:07:56 | |
which kind of recreated. | 00:08:00 | |
And then what we would do is that. | 00:08:04 | |
We're coordinating with the exhibit design that was kind of coming through. And so we feel like if we went with a minimalist team | 00:08:08 | |
where the floor isn't necessarily really dramatic or. | 00:08:12 | |
Colorful. Then the new lighting for the kind of hall displays that will be going up all along the corridor would then become the | 00:08:16 | |
thing that becomes the attention. | 00:08:20 | |
And so that's kind of that first option that we were looking at. | 00:08:25 | |
Can we go next? | 00:08:29 | |
The stage. So that's the view that you can see here. | 00:08:31 | |
Enlarged and then the next page. | 00:08:35 | |
So the scheme for the. | 00:08:40 | |
Offices and all of the kind of spaces outside of the border. | 00:08:44 | |
Will most likely get incorporating at minimum. There's some more updates in the other spaces furnishings. | 00:08:49 | |
That we'll be working through, but primarily. | 00:08:55 | |
Into the carpet is going to be replaced everywhere. | 00:08:57 | |
And So what we're proposing is in this option is you can see the carpet titles there. | 00:09:00 | |
Is an kind of a plank tile that would be laid down. | 00:09:05 | |
So that. | 00:09:09 | |
Since these are regional targets, this is like a custom design. | 00:09:11 | |
Which actually we wanted to play off the green. We think that's kind of a fun. | 00:09:15 | |
And a way to continue kind of reinforce that some of that kind of. | 00:09:19 | |
The identity that had been built into the logo and everything for Holiday. | 00:09:24 | |
But what we're doing is we're proposing something that's maybe a little kind of a slightly more modern pattern, and then because | 00:09:28 | |
it's a plank. | 00:09:31 | |
If in the future. | 00:09:35 | |
The floor gets kind of a little section gets. | 00:09:37 | |
Nickel rune It can be replaced much easier than these current carpets, which is. | 00:09:40 | |
Or for broadband that if things have been problem that you would have to replace the entire car. | 00:09:44 | |
So we're hoping these things help on kind of a maintenance standpoint for the future. | 00:09:49 | |
And so this one is a linear thing. It's a linear pattern that could be laid in a plane. | 00:09:53 | |
It has a little bit hints of green, but overall it's a really consistent kind of distribution. So once it lays down together, it | 00:09:58 | |
starts to, we feel read kind of. | 00:10:02 | |
Neutral. | 00:10:06 | |
So the next image. | 00:10:08 | |
The other option we were looking at is. | 00:10:12 | |
While we feel like minimalism is not a bad way to go, we do feel that maybe a little bit of the character of the hallway got lost | 00:10:15 | |
in like a completely monolithic floor. | 00:10:20 | |
And So what we then look at is other ways in which buildings of the time period would deal with hallways, particularly a really | 00:10:25 | |
long corridor. | 00:10:29 | |
And oftentimes what you'd see is this kind of bordering effect where the outside perimeter would have a darker color and then | 00:10:33 | |
every so often they would be just kind of broad section. | 00:10:38 | |
And so that broad section would usually relate to things down the portal and like entrances to certain hallways of buildings or | 00:10:42 | |
rooms, right? | 00:10:46 | |
And so you understand that the existing corridor has these pilasters upgrade these little spaces. | 00:10:50 | |
It's basically are subtly indicating when you actually. | 00:10:56 | |
Entered a place where there should be. | 00:11:00 | |
A room of importance to the writers of Lack. | 00:11:02 | |
And So what we wanted to do is maybe take that forward as an option and so. | 00:11:05 | |
In this one, what we're doing is we're doing the border tile. | 00:11:10 | |
That would be dark and then in the middle. | 00:11:13 | |
We're looking at it. | 00:11:15 | |
A tile that looks like a marble. | 00:11:17 | |
As a kind of callback to, like I said, the original idea that there should have been marble floors. | 00:11:20 | |
To the next page. | 00:11:24 | |
And so Miss Marvel would then be laid in a diamond, and then you can see this kind of darker greater. | 00:11:27 | |
And so as you can see then you can highlight when there becomes. | 00:11:32 | |
Kind of a space adjacent. | 00:11:37 | |
That would be a place where people might be going or headed to. | 00:11:39 | |
And so that's the second option that you see over there. | 00:11:42 | |
Again, we're not trying to like overwhelmingly with pattern and style, but. | 00:11:46 | |
In the kind of subtle gestures of changing it up, it does provide a little bit more kind of character. | 00:11:51 | |
And historic kind of quality that. | 00:11:56 | |
That kind of would have probably not be done in the building of this. | 00:11:59 | |
Aid at that temperature. | 00:12:02 | |
And then the. | 00:12:06 | |
Sorry, scroll back so. | 00:12:08 | |
We have a different Scroll down 1. | 00:12:10 | |
Don't go down 1. Yep. | 00:12:14 | |
There we go. So we do have one option, a slightly different option for carpet for the rooms. | 00:12:16 | |
So instead of having something that's linear, which maybe feels a little bit. | 00:12:22 | |
To modern we did say that potentially we want to. | 00:12:28 | |
Propose something that has a little bit of more pattern to it. | 00:12:30 | |
Pattern is always great, mainly because it does hide things really well. | 00:12:35 | |
This is. | 00:12:38 | |
Biggest standard of. | 00:12:40 | |
Big hotels. Conference rooms. | 00:12:41 | |
Big pattern that should hide things, right? | 00:12:43 | |
So again, we're always going to propose, kind of. | 00:12:45 | |
Tile system. So what tiles could be replaced? | 00:12:48 | |
But we're showing kind of two options here. | 00:12:51 | |
Which have a little bit more capacity to them. | 00:12:55 | |
And again, when they actually *** **** when they *** **** together, we don't think the pattern is super distracting. We're not | 00:12:57 | |
looking for a lot of high contrast per se. | 00:13:02 | |
But we thought that maybe it. | 00:13:06 | |
Feels a little bit more interesting or lively than the linear flow which. | 00:13:09 | |
Might start to feel a little bit. | 00:13:13 | |
Trap in all your in all your public spaces. | 00:13:16 | |
So that's kind of this kind of other option that we're proposing. | 00:13:20 | |
And then if you scroll to the next page, the. | 00:13:25 | |
Oh sorry, if you Scroll down to the bottom. | 00:13:31 | |
On each of these options. | 00:13:34 | |
Are showing just in the. | 00:13:37 | |
We're creating a basement works, kind of. We called a work lounge. | 00:13:40 | |
For the staff, that's where. | 00:13:45 | |
There would be both the new kitchen area as well as just some casual meeting places. | 00:13:49 | |
For the basement where we are proposing that that new space use kind of an LB. | 00:13:53 | |
A resilient title. | 00:13:59 | |
And what we were doing is for that room, we felt particularly because it was supposed to feel a little bit like. | 00:14:00 | |
Not only just a kind of a workplace, but an actual place for. | 00:14:05 | |
Staff to actually meet and congregate and do some team meetings or some other casual things. | 00:14:09 | |
We wanted to make it a little more lively and fun. | 00:14:14 | |
And So what we're proposing is that we're proposing a palette of kind of three colors for the OEP. | 00:14:16 | |
We use it to kind of start to kind of subtly designate spaces within a larger space. | 00:14:22 | |
So then in this one we're calling it like a. | 00:14:27 | |
For carpet is that it needs a kind of more casual sitting area. | 00:14:31 | |
There's more station than the kitchenette. | 00:14:34 | |
And then on the backs, but on the back we're proposing kind of Wallpapers. 1 is a little bit more subtle. | 00:14:37 | |
And if you go up? | 00:14:43 | |
So the a version. | 00:14:45 | |
This one becomes a little bit more bold in the kind of graphic that we're choosing for the wallpaper. | 00:14:52 | |
We found this one. This isn't off the shelf. That has kind of a tree motif. | 00:14:57 | |
Which we were calling back to the leaf motif. | 00:15:01 | |
That healthy. | 00:15:04 | |
That's kind of the kind of two options we kind of put together for the staff to kind of think about. | 00:15:06 | |
And they wanted to present it to you. | 00:15:11 | |
City Council so that we could get some of your thoughts and thinking. | 00:15:13 | |
I mean, there's. | 00:15:18 | |
Are there specific? | 00:15:21 | |
Are there specific? | 00:15:23 | |
Decisions you'd like us to make here, like. Yeah, I think the big one is the. | 00:15:26 | |
The road versus the mountain. Clifford feeling. | 00:15:31 | |
Maybe we can go back. | 00:15:35 | |
OK. So yeah, up here, sorry. | 00:15:40 | |
Scroll down. | 00:15:43 | |
So the big thing about? | 00:15:48 | |
What we're saying is, is that when we don't. | 00:15:50 | |
We rebuild the arch, right? | 00:15:52 | |
We can raise your feelings and have them flat. | 00:15:55 | |
What we are doing is adding like a copper detail down where we would then use kind of. | 00:15:57 | |
Casework at the top, including. | 00:16:04 | |
At the top since then, reinforce those spaces below, but we wanted to make sure that the Council felt. | 00:16:08 | |
That would be OK because. | 00:16:13 | |
You know, obviously that's a big change from what? | 00:16:15 | |
Was installed here, this kind of stone ceiling all going all the way down. So that's one big architectural change and like I said. | 00:16:18 | |
If the Council thought. | 00:16:24 | |
That quality was something important. We could recreate it. But like we said. | 00:16:26 | |
We will have to devil all the ceilings that are in the entire corridor to do the. | 00:16:30 | |
Structural work. So that was the big thing that. | 00:16:34 | |
We wanted to get your feedback on if you felt that this kind of Dome seemed going down was important enough that you wanted to | 00:16:37 | |
regulate or if you're open to kind of moving into a different direction. | 00:16:41 | |
Is there a cost difference do you think or is it? | 00:16:48 | |
They're actually rebuilding the. | 00:16:51 | |
The Half Dome ceiling will probably be more costly because it's all over frames. | 00:16:54 | |
This one would be more consistent with the horses original historical period of the building. | 00:17:04 | |
Would you? Would that influence? Would you? | 00:17:14 | |
So I think. | 00:17:18 | |
Either the flooring could go like either before it could work with either scenes. | 00:17:19 | |
Primarily, the flooring was about. | 00:17:24 | |
Whether we thought that this kind of monochromatic scheme became a little bit. | 00:17:27 | |
To black, you might say. | 00:17:32 | |
And if there was a little bit more interest in bringing back the idea of the bordering? | 00:17:35 | |
Starts to suddenly indicate where there are spaces, where there's probably rooms or places. | 00:17:39 | |
So both of these renderings do show flat ceiling. | 00:17:45 | |
So I've never noticed. | 00:17:52 | |
Like I said, it's like we. | 00:17:56 | |
We, we were like, you know it, the ceilings all going to go away. There is a cost to be creating the Half Dome. That's why we were | 00:18:05 | |
saying that potentially. | 00:18:09 | |
Also, architecturally, it kind of matches the original character of the building we just noticed, but it was a big change. | 00:18:13 | |
So we wanted to bring up the. | 00:18:18 | |
Looking cancer protection? | 00:18:20 | |
That's great. | 00:18:22 | |
But to your question on the flooring. | 00:18:24 | |
I think that. | 00:18:29 | |
The one seemed really plain to me. Yeah, it was very plain. | 00:18:30 | |
I like the one you're showing. | 00:18:34 | |
Agreed. | 00:18:37 | |
Do that. | 00:18:38 | |
With a border. | 00:18:41 | |
We could we could find this monochromatic, it would just be depending on what order we would look at and so. | 00:18:43 | |
We could do a border. I guess the one thing is is that. | 00:18:49 | |
What we're using that visually helps is that there's contrast. | 00:18:52 | |
And the idea of monochromatic, even though you do a tile where you could see the subtle change. | 00:18:56 | |
You wouldn't necessarily. | 00:19:00 | |
Get as clear of a like a change of that pattern. So if you were going monochromatic, we would just say then you just lay the title | 00:19:03 | |
all the way because it's also from a cost standpoint, if you're going to use the same tile but just change your patterning, then | 00:19:08 | |
the labor increases substantially for let's say, cutting. | 00:19:13 | |
But if you actually are interested in the board, then you can find that out. | 00:19:19 | |
So we're doing the darker bordering, that's a tile, it is tile, that's the monochrome. And then these are the tiles for. | 00:19:24 | |
Our tiles and this would be the field type which would be. | 00:19:33 | |
That's great. Like this one's a little bit flower. | 00:19:37 | |
My child is more marble. They're not slippery, are they? Or no? | 00:19:39 | |
OK, maybe think about is on the border. Have it more of a. | 00:19:45 | |
Holiday brand color greenish. | 00:19:48 | |
We would have. | 00:19:51 | |
Always say the biggest challenge to the green is not. | 00:19:55 | |
A readily available floor color right now, so green. | 00:19:59 | |
So even that green marble that was abused, which was very popular when. | 00:20:03 | |
That color was very popular at that time. You could find a lot of options. I have scoured and we found one greenish. | 00:20:07 | |
Item, now that's that, yeah. | 00:20:15 | |
Great read. And so when we showed it to the administrative staff, they were like, well. | 00:20:21 | |
We like the idea, but the green wasn't like the right green. | 00:20:25 | |
And so unless you were, let's say. | 00:20:29 | |
And again, it doesn't make sense if let's say do a custom. | 00:20:31 | |
Tile, right? And so that's why we did scour quite a bit of, but we couldn't find there isn't a lot of green floor tiles. | 00:20:35 | |
Make a statement that would like. | 00:20:45 | |
Place it in this time that it would get outdated. | 00:20:47 | |
Right. | 00:20:51 | |
Well, and this is. | 00:20:53 | |
I'm assuming this is. | 00:20:55 | |
Been boiled down through because I've seen you guys have it working. | 00:20:56 | |
Yeah. So we presented like several other options. What we're trying to do is boil it down to a couple that. | 00:21:00 | |
You know, the team felt that, you know. | 00:21:06 | |
Met kind of the bigger ideas that they were thinking about but we wanted. | 00:21:09 | |
Big key ideas or for the Commission here. | 00:21:12 | |
Because particularly the public experiences. | 00:21:16 | |
Is going to change a bit. | 00:21:19 | |
Whenever we look back. | 00:21:21 | |
So we wanted to see if there were any concerns. | 00:21:23 | |
In the Council about the. | 00:21:26 | |
I'm also interested in knowing. | 00:21:29 | |
In the. | 00:21:32 | |
We've had council members. | 00:21:34 | |
At a particular interest in the site. | 00:21:36 | |
And so they transacted with our administrative scale. | 00:21:38 | |
City Park. | 00:21:46 | |
I don't know if anyone on the council has a similar interest. | 00:21:49 | |
Fire District 1 representative. | 00:21:55 | |
I I. | 00:21:59 | |
Include the Council. | 00:22:08 | |
They will continue to bring back. | 00:22:09 | |
This place. | 00:22:15 | |
And I mean, it's like we're happy to engage you as to the level you want. There were staff in the past. I worked a little bit. | 00:22:18 | |
Originally with the original Council president, who was very interested when we did. | 00:22:26 | |
Our proposal for the formative. | 00:22:30 | |
And again, they wanted to. They wanted to be a part of. | 00:22:32 | |
Every design meeting. | 00:22:35 | |
And that's why we wanted to understand the level of interest the current council has in terms of some of this decision. | 00:22:36 | |
One comment or question I assume. | 00:22:49 | |
A lot of these. | 00:22:52 | |
Rooms won't be changed that much except from the. | 00:22:54 | |
The wood finish is my only question, where it's one that ends, and I don't know that it's as timeless as I wish that it was, you | 00:22:56 | |
know? | 00:22:58 | |
And so this is one of the things is honestly what we're doing is we're. | 00:23:02 | |
Trying as a cost measure we're actually trying to keep. | 00:23:06 | |
The current wood color step and then use everything else we're doing to kind of modernize it. | 00:23:09 | |
So one of the first things we're doing is as we've transitioned to a palette. | 00:23:15 | |
That polls, we would say a little bit more kind of Gray and neutral. | 00:23:19 | |
And so we're also proposing that the walls will become like a crisper white. This is really muddled. | 00:23:24 | |
And so in doing those things, we're hoping that. | 00:23:32 | |
It actually will tone down the kind of. | 00:23:35 | |
Quality of the wood stain so we can keep a lot of it in locations, particularly all the doors on. | 00:23:38 | |
You know, it goes everywhere. | 00:23:43 | |
Right. And still have to touch windows and other rooms that aren't getting a full refresh. You know that all can stay and then | 00:23:44 | |
we're not going to match. So that's why we've been trying to choose in terms of thinking about lighting, color and pattern as a | 00:23:49 | |
way to update. | 00:23:54 | |
So that when these do come back, it does feel current. | 00:23:59 | |
But we can actually use the color of that blood as a basis. | 00:24:01 | |
I love that, thanks for being conscious. | 00:24:05 | |
Because otherwise. | 00:24:09 | |
Right. That would need to either be stripped and be seen or actually just torn out. I don't think that's bad. I see what you're | 00:24:11 | |
saying. You can change. | 00:24:15 | |
Everything around it actually makes the wood scene. | 00:24:20 | |
Like it might be. | 00:24:24 | |
Appear to be new even though it's not yeah and I think that's I mean that's always kind of even when we do like, you know I we do | 00:24:25 | |
a ton of renovations of both. | 00:24:29 | |
And, you know, commercial spaces and residential spaces, but that's usually the trick. | 00:24:34 | |
Is you can like. The first thing is if you identify what. | 00:24:38 | |
Maybe the really costly thing and you may want to work with. | 00:24:42 | |
But depending on how you work around it, we feel strongly that we can. | 00:24:45 | |
Make it feel updated. | 00:24:48 | |
Without having to do everything there. | 00:24:49 | |
Cool. | 00:24:53 | |
It sounds like we're on the right track. | 00:24:56 | |
Do we need anything on the What about the carpet? Yeah. | 00:24:58 | |
Showing you kind of where you are if you had strong opinion. | 00:25:02 | |
To your comment about the terrazzo look. | 00:25:07 | |
This specific tile does come in different colorways, so we could pair this if we don't. | 00:25:10 | |
We like this kind of Toronto. We look over the Marvel look. | 00:25:15 | |
We could pair this with a darker. | 00:25:19 | |
Or lighter tone and be able to create the same border effect but using a different texture. | 00:25:21 | |
So but. | 00:25:26 | |
OK. | 00:25:28 | |
I think on the carpet side we just wanted to know if there was any strong. | 00:25:30 | |
Otherwise we can just work with that. | 00:25:38 | |
But I, like I said, conceptually, the big idea is we do like the idea of. | 00:25:40 | |
The subtlety of the heat. | 00:25:44 | |
Yeah. | 00:25:46 | |
But what we're trying to do is maybe tone back. | 00:25:47 | |
Like the overwhelming green? | 00:25:51 | |
And then make it more like. | 00:25:53 | |
Yeah, the green could be taken too far as well. Yeah. | 00:25:57 | |
The middle one. | 00:26:01 | |
And it's not harsh. | 00:26:09 | |
It's pretty, yeah. It's. | 00:26:11 | |
Yeah. | 00:26:13 | |
Maybe you can pass around the. | 00:26:26 | |
Other floor sample? Sure. | 00:26:28 | |
The Dom Draper Rec Room. | 00:26:31 | |
Just the one that's a little. | 00:26:56 | |
I think we got this standby, so it's actually 5 to 6 inch. | 00:26:59 | |
So yeah, it's making the fashion statement. | 00:27:14 | |
In other words. | 00:27:17 | |
Better. | 00:27:19 | |
I mean, one screamed up for whiskey. | 00:27:24 | |
So I do like the other one. | 00:27:28 | |
Felt different. | 00:27:33 | |
Yeah. | 00:27:36 | |
This is just concepts too. We can get more how those spaces can be laid out and we can have those discussions. This is just. | 00:27:39 | |
Yeah. So what we, what we will be doing working with the administrative team is. | 00:27:47 | |
For these rooms, the actual furniture. | 00:27:52 | |
We're going to be working with kind of. | 00:27:54 | |
A kind of just. | 00:27:57 | |
A furniture supplier to help us give us options for how like. | 00:27:59 | |
We're looking for creating a commercial grade furniture that can withstand kind of the wear and tear. So we'll be working with | 00:28:03 | |
them for particularly options in the administrative wings in terms of updating the desks and those types of things. | 00:28:09 | |
For a space like that. | 00:28:14 | |
That will give us some ideas of options, but primarily we're going to. | 00:28:16 | |
Ask them for ideas about how we can make it flexible. | 00:28:20 | |
Like I said, that one downstairs kind of lounge space, the staff lounge, we're calling it. | 00:28:22 | |
The idea had been because this one is so small, the entire staff can't meet together in a place that doesn't necessarily always | 00:28:27 | |
feel like we're in a conference. | 00:28:32 | |
It's like, maybe it'd be nice if you're doing like a lunch session or something like that. It's a little bit more casual. | 00:28:36 | |
But also if people wanted to get out of their office and work somewhere. | 00:28:41 | |
Just with their laptop were a little bit that could be the place or even if they want to and you're going to get into this later. | 00:28:45 | |
That was I think my point is. | 00:28:49 | |
Yeah, when we start getting into these individual spaces, we'll be. | 00:28:54 | |
Engaging our employees and say how do we. | 00:28:58 | |
How do we set these spaces up so that there is? | 00:29:01 | |
Functional. | 00:29:05 | |
As they can possibly be if we're going to invest this money like. | 00:29:06 | |
Because I know in here, when I walk in, I always feel bad when somebody's. | 00:29:09 | |
Eating their lunch and then I interrupt them and. | 00:29:12 | |
So there will be places to where somebody wants to eat their lunch in private, right? They can do that. | 00:29:16 | |
Yeah. So that's the stuff that. | 00:29:21 | |
We're working with, yeah, that's down the road, yeah. Yeah, we have engaged our staff. | 00:29:22 | |
In the sport. | 00:29:28 | |
I think there will be more conversations. | 00:29:31 | |
And some of these choices that were avoided. | 00:29:33 | |
The cost, the estimates that we're going to come back to you and so that's. | 00:29:36 | |
Piece of the reason why we need to have some of these conversations up. | 00:29:40 | |
So going down the road now. | 00:29:44 | |
We can just expect every. | 00:29:47 | |
So often to have. | 00:29:50 | |
Have them come back and say, OK, we need to revision thought, hey DC and Vena and eventually we'll have. | 00:29:52 | |
The full layout of what we need to bid out for everything. | 00:29:59 | |
Yeah, I mean, right now we're. | 00:30:01 | |
For the most part, this is one of the biggest. | 00:30:03 | |
I think then we're moving into the furniture discussion. That's the next level. | 00:30:06 | |
And the finalization of. | 00:30:10 | |
An appendage like the mechanical break. | 00:30:12 | |
So we hope that, you know, within the next couple of months we'd be, we'd be. | 00:30:15 | |
Creating like a more final package that would be comprehensive. | 00:30:20 | |
And then that would be the that would go in for the. | 00:30:24 | |
Process and then we can say. | 00:30:29 | |
Right now we. | 00:30:31 | |
Feel pretty good that that that there has been huge changes that have like jumped your scope from what we did originally, but. | 00:30:32 | |
Again, we want to get that all kind of tight. | 00:30:38 | |
With 100% is out of the full structural. | 00:30:41 | |
Package that. That's the big thing that's driving how much we're going to have to do for the certain outbreak study. | 00:30:44 | |
OK, signing. | 00:30:53 | |
Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. | 00:30:54 | |
Thanks for coming. | 00:30:57 | |
Thanks staff for working on this. I see you guys. | 00:31:00 | |
Going over was asking them like. | 00:31:03 | |
I'm right? | 00:31:14 | |
Yeah, they're just, I think they're just out in the hall. | 00:31:17 | |
Did you want to interrupt? Oh, you're good. | 00:31:24 | |
Ethan and I are going to take to head to the table if that's OK. Ethan is Director of Research at Vice Analytics, so he is my. | 00:31:28 | |
Right hand for holiday. | 00:31:35 | |
I want to we'll just go sort of page by page here. A lot of this is going to be really familiar. | 00:31:42 | |
So beginning of the survey here, we don't have a lot of changes. We have our warm up questions for residents. | 00:31:50 | |
Overall quality of life rating, right direction, wrong direction, and general elected approval ratings. | 00:31:55 | |
So we'll be tracking those overtime as well as the. | 00:32:02 | |
How holiday today compares to five years ago? | 00:32:06 | |
We've made a couple changes to the open-ended questions this year so we still have what you like most about winning holiday. | 00:32:15 | |
But we added a question to try and get at sort of what values or things residents point to that make holiday unique or distinct | 00:32:22 | |
from other communities along the Los Angeles front. | 00:32:28 | |
So that question has been added here. | 00:32:34 | |
And then we still have our top issue question which thinking about the next three to five years, both of us press significant | 00:32:36 | |
facing in the city. | 00:32:40 | |
And overall likelihood to recommend the city to others as a place to live. | 00:32:44 | |
We have our reading through Test Dollar and our general sentiments about Holiday to what extent I disagree or disagree. | 00:32:53 | |
About some of these. | 00:33:01 | |
Attributes of the community. | 00:33:02 | |
Managing city services, whether the city have businesses they're looking for, growing and developing the positive way. | 00:33:04 | |
This next one, sorry, just a little bit there. We added this business type question. So if residents say that they to some extent | 00:33:11 | |
disagree. | 00:33:16 | |
That the city has all of the businesses or all the kinds of businesses they would like to have. | 00:33:21 | |
We wanted to give them some categories here. We know if we provide an open-ended question for this, we're going to get a lot of | 00:33:26 | |
Trader Joe's. | 00:33:30 | |
And we're looking to maybe direct the economic development question a little bit more. So we've provided some business categories | 00:33:34 | |
and still left that option for another. Please specify. I wouldn't be surprised if we still see an appearance there. | 00:33:41 | |
Now you can go ahead. I just told someone this last week, but it should be. | 00:33:49 | |
They won't be able to get $2.00 check. | 00:33:52 | |
Performs in terms of sidewalk maintenance, St. lighting, city code enforcement, works open spaces, community events. | 00:34:00 | |
Cetera we're looking at. | 00:34:20 | |
Water conservation efforts as well, so. | 00:34:23 | |
Drilling down on some of these things to see if residents attitudes have changed since the city undertook some of the capital | 00:34:26 | |
projects for holiday time. | 00:34:30 | |
Services provided by a contractor agency for the familiar list here. No real changes. Yes please. | 00:34:36 | |
Yes. Is there going to be something for each of those or is that? | 00:34:46 | |
Well, we did it specifically for code enforcement because that was the one in the last iteration of this survey that received. | 00:34:50 | |
The lowest rating overall and we wanted to be able to parse whether residents are frustrated by too much code enforcement or not | 00:34:56 | |
enough code enforcement and and what direction that might be cutting. So we added it specifically for that this year. | 00:35:04 | |
They want coordinates more in their neighborhood. | 00:35:13 | |
City services contracted with another agency and then just general city services experience if there's anything else folks would | 00:35:28 | |
like to tell us about their students this day. | 00:35:32 | |
And we've moved the budget allocation question up in the survey so that it immediately follows those city service ratings this | 00:35:37 | |
year. | 00:35:41 | |
Partly because we've introduced some new topics into the survey that we want to get residents opinions on. | 00:35:45 | |
So this just seems to flow a little bit better, but hopefully this also means that. | 00:35:50 | |
Residents are thinking about their experiences with city services. | 00:35:56 | |
They're thinking specifically about how they would like to see. | 00:35:59 | |
Their funds allocated if we're looking to improve some of those experiences. | 00:36:04 | |
Some neighborhood sentiments here. So generally we're looking at sort of the look and feel of neighborhoods. | 00:36:13 | |
In holiday and then we've added a couple questions here from what we had in the past was a full battery that examined residents | 00:36:21 | |
attitudes towards traffic and roads in the city both. | 00:36:27 | |
Major thoroughfares and the streets and roads in their neighborhood. | 00:36:33 | |
We have instead tapped those onto this neighborhood sentiments question. | 00:36:37 | |
Looking at. | 00:36:42 | |
Maintenance in roads in their neighborhood and the city as a whole, again, sort of following up on some of those capital. | 00:36:43 | |
We have our streetlights, a number or amount and quality questions here. So are there enough, too many or? | 00:36:52 | |
Too not enough to many or the red. | 00:37:02 | |
And then in terms of quality, are they too bright, not bright enough or adequate? | 00:37:04 | |
Similar set of questions for holiday or for home accent lighting. | 00:37:10 | |
So this has. | 00:37:16 | |
Come up a little bit and we're trying to address it delicately. You don't want to create an issue where there isn't one, but we do | 00:37:18 | |
want to understand the extent to which residents broadly in the city feel strongly about this. | 00:37:24 | |
We have a section here that delves into residence transit use, so current use of public transit in or around holiday. | 00:37:36 | |
Overall frequency. | 00:37:45 | |
And then? | 00:37:47 | |
A set of potential barriers to entry. So what things might be keeping residents from using transit, or using transit more | 00:37:48 | |
frequently? | 00:37:52 | |
We had a short list here and then included that other. Please specify. Certainly open to additional. | 00:37:57 | |
Response options. | 00:38:04 | |
I think this covered most of our bases. If we're thinking about bus systems not having routes where residents like to go, they're | 00:38:06 | |
unfamiliar or uncomfortable. | 00:38:11 | |
Just preference of another mode of transportation. | 00:38:16 | |
Or there's no stop that is convenient to their home, so difficulty accessing transit Commission. | 00:38:19 | |
And then potential ways to overcome those barriers to entry. So which if any of these? | 00:38:28 | |
Solutions might encourage them to use transit or use transit more. More bus stops a bus stop within walking distance of their. | 00:38:34 | |
Improvements to bus stops or buses. More information, schedules, More frequent bus service. | 00:38:42 | |
New direct routes so. | 00:38:47 | |
For example, a service to the university. | 00:38:50 | |
Access to additional types of transit, whether that's streetcar. | 00:38:55 | |
In the city and then again that other. Please specify option and none of the above option there as well. | 00:38:59 | |
The reality is we're having edition. | 00:39:06 | |
A share of residence. I won't speculate too much on what that share looks like, but. | 00:39:08 | |
Who for whom? We can't overcome those barriers to entry so. | 00:39:12 | |
The news and communications section here should be pretty familiar overall how residents are currently receiving information from | 00:39:17 | |
the city and how they would prefer to receive most of their information from the city. | 00:39:24 | |
Identifying some potential areas for further emphasis. | 00:39:30 | |
And then a sense of the cadence of communications as well, so whether residents are happy with the level of communication they | 00:39:35 | |
receive or if they would prefer to receive. | 00:39:40 | |
More or less information from the city. | 00:39:45 | |
And then we've added this question about interest in a separate city newsletter outside the Holiday Journal, So. | 00:39:49 | |
We know that residents are. | 00:39:57 | |
Quite attached to the Journal, but we're interested to see how much attention they're paying to the city's piece of the Journal. | 00:39:59 | |
If that is more. | 00:40:06 | |
Social or? | 00:40:09 | |
Fun news source, or if it is something where they're turning to that source for city information. | 00:40:11 | |
And if so, is that something that residents would be interested in the city providing separately? | 00:40:16 | |
And if so, on what cadence? So monthly, every two months, one supporter price year or once year? | 00:40:23 | |
We have our contact questions here, so if residents have contacted the city office in the past years. | 00:40:32 | |
Were they generally satisfied with the satisfied and if they have any comments they would like to share about that? | 00:40:38 | |
An open-ended response option there as well. | 00:40:44 | |
We have a housing section here that is. | 00:40:50 | |
Probably somewhat familiar. I think we asked this question. | 00:40:53 | |
About the types of housing that are needed in holiday overall in the past. | 00:40:57 | |
So various sort of missing middle housing options. | 00:41:03 | |
And then? | 00:41:08 | |
A follow up question which is which features would fit well? | 00:41:09 | |
Into residence specific area of the city. So first looking at what does the city need writ large and then residents be willing to | 00:41:13 | |
have in their own vendor. | 00:41:18 | |
And then the flip side of that. | 00:41:29 | |
Would residents like to see some of those things in the city generally, but maybe not in their own backyards so. | 00:41:32 | |
Trying to get both sides of the coin here. Get residents to really tell us what their priorities for the city as a whole are. | 00:41:39 | |
Preference the question the legislature is holding a gun to your head. | 00:41:45 | |
Yeah. | 00:41:51 | |
You had to choose right? Looking at this set of questions here. | 00:41:53 | |
The scroll up just a bit, so we're posting a set of questions. | 00:41:58 | |
About Adu's and. | 00:42:03 | |
Sort of potential development solutions. | 00:42:06 | |
Mixed-use developments. | 00:42:10 | |
Whether the housing that is introduced to the city. | 00:42:14 | |
In an effort to respond to the Legislature's requirements. | 00:42:18 | |
Would be more. | 00:42:23 | |
Palatable or for us to be more open to it if it sort of fits the look and feel of existing housing and holiday. | 00:42:25 | |
Is it supporting high density housing, providing more options for future residents? | 00:42:33 | |
Are we encouraging more moderate income housing for residents making less than $80,000 a year? | 00:42:39 | |
Would residents be interested in seeing Pacific allocating funding? | 00:42:45 | |
To rehabilitation. | 00:42:49 | |
So that there are more opportunities for multi company. | 00:42:51 | |
For some properties that pay. | 00:42:55 | |
And could be low hanging fruit there. | 00:42:58 | |
So we have. | 00:43:01 | |
A variety of options here and things that we'll ask residents just their general sentiments about. | 00:43:03 | |
See. See if there's. | 00:43:09 | |
One Ave. that is especially appealing for residents as we're speaking. | 00:43:11 | |
What levers to pull? | 00:43:16 | |
We've added this public health section this year, so we're starting with asking a set of questions about. | 00:43:25 | |
To what extent? | 00:43:31 | |
Their residents are broadly concerned about some public health issues. | 00:43:34 | |
Or are they? | 00:43:39 | |
Are they of concern to residents and their neighbors? | 00:43:40 | |
Typically we wouldn't ask a question that is. | 00:43:44 | |
A little bit speculative in the direction of, you know, what do you think your neighbors think? | 00:43:47 | |
But when it comes to public health, we need to be able to give residents some sense of anonymity. | 00:43:52 | |
So if residents are. | 00:43:57 | |
Reporting on what they see as a community wide issue rather than just a. | 00:44:00 | |
Personal in their household issue. | 00:44:04 | |
We're hopeful, and this is something that we see in social science a lot, just providing a little bit of that. | 00:44:07 | |
Social cover. | 00:44:12 | |
Tends to give us more. | 00:44:14 | |
Honest answers. | 00:44:16 | |
And then we do ask a follow-up question after asking about. | 00:44:19 | |
Some of these public health issues broadly, you know. | 00:44:24 | |
To what extent, if at all, these concerns have had an impact on? | 00:44:27 | |
Residents and members of their house. | 00:44:31 | |
Some Emergency Management questions are new this year as well. | 00:44:37 | |
So overall we're looking at. | 00:44:41 | |
Residents perceptions of how well prepared various organizations or groups are in the event of a natural disaster or emergency, | 00:44:43 | |
including their own household. So we want to start close to home, then sort of branch out from there. | 00:44:50 | |
To get residents sense of. | 00:44:57 | |
Overall preparedness. | 00:44:59 | |
Scroll down. I'm getting a little bit more specific. We're asking residents what types of preparations they have in place in the | 00:45:02 | |
event of emergency. | 00:45:06 | |
One of the things. | 00:45:12 | |
That we. | 00:45:13 | |
I can sort of toyed with here. | 00:45:15 | |
Is the shift between having enough food and water for three days? | 00:45:17 | |
Versus having enough food and water for a week or more when we're thinking about the reality of emergency response times. | 00:45:24 | |
And when aid could arrive in the event of a severe emergency. | 00:45:30 | |
Is that going to change the way residents are thinking about their own emergency preparedness? Is that going to change the way the | 00:45:35 | |
city should be discussing emergency preparedness with residents? | 00:45:40 | |
So that's what those options, 2 through 5 are there. And then there's some of these other things, designated meeting places, | 00:45:45 | |
copies of important documents, types of insurance. | 00:45:50 | |
That our insurance companies think we need. | 00:45:56 | |
Regardless of whether it makes sense in our neighborhood. | 00:45:59 | |
And then the next question here goes. | 00:46:04 | |
So I'm trying to see what we're trying to get at here. | 00:46:08 | |
Like what are we going to do with us? Are we using that as the future education tool regarding? | 00:46:14 | |
Fire insurance. Flood insurance, Earthquake insurance. | 00:46:21 | |
Why do we want that information? | 00:46:27 | |
Yeah. So I think the first step here is understanding what residents see as necessary and what they are prepared with so that we | 00:46:29 | |
can tailor the city's. | 00:46:34 | |
Approach and communications. | 00:46:40 | |
Educational programs about emergency preparedness to sort of address the gaps. | 00:46:42 | |
As we're thinking about. | 00:46:48 | |
Likely events in holiday. | 00:46:49 | |
Or less likely events, certainly, but. | 00:46:52 | |
Sort of understanding the broad. | 00:46:55 | |
Landscape there for emergency preparedness and. | 00:46:57 | |
Being able to then. | 00:47:01 | |
Develop a program that is addressing residents needs or lack of information. | 00:47:03 | |
So we can use it as a. | 00:47:09 | |
Way to focus where we're going to try to communicate and educate with our residents down the road. | 00:47:13 | |
Because I'm just looking ahead a little bit here to some of the questions and. | 00:47:19 | |
Part of what I think of my questions going to be is. | 00:47:23 | |
You know, it's a long survey and is it going to? | 00:47:26 | |
Maybe I'll wait till we get to the end, but I'm going to have that question. | 00:47:31 | |
How much of this information is really useful to us and. | 00:47:35 | |
Is it going to? | 00:47:39 | |
Discourage people from taking a survey when they see the length of it. | 00:47:43 | |
And I was going to get to. Is there any way you can? | 00:47:47 | |
Segment it so if somebody gives up after they get through. | 00:47:49 | |
Half or 2/3? | 00:47:53 | |
You've at least got. | 00:47:55 | |
The pieces they did. | 00:47:57 | |
So absolutely yes, we always keep partial responses included in the data. | 00:47:58 | |
Just so that we're not losing out on some of that information if residents did get fatigued at some point in the survey. | 00:48:04 | |
Mayor, you've anticipated my question to the group here. | 00:48:11 | |
Where should we prioritize our efforts in this case because we really. | 00:48:16 | |
Done our best to capture all of the sort of new or newly focused areas of. | 00:48:21 | |
Lines of questioning here. | 00:48:30 | |
So we are. | 00:48:32 | |
A bit longer than we would like to be. | 00:48:34 | |
If there are some things that we can deprioritize or if there are things that. | 00:48:36 | |
Maybe don't make sense to ask at this time we're. | 00:48:41 | |
Definitely looking for ways to. That's a real question I'd have when you start going through these text pages and then look at | 00:48:46 | |
this stuff. | 00:48:50 | |
Like what's your income? What are you, male or female? | 00:48:54 | |
What's your? | 00:48:58 | |
What? | 00:49:01 | |
Why do we need to know that? How's that going to apply? And if it doesn't, can we? Let's I say let's eliminate it if it's not. | 00:49:02 | |
Useful information as I'm trying to call this down to where people will. | 00:49:09 | |
Not be incentivized not to take it. | 00:49:13 | |
So those demographic questions unfortunately. | 00:49:16 | |
Place to be taken. | 00:49:19 | |
Because those are the ways that we ensure that we. | 00:49:21 | |
Representative sample of cities. | 00:49:23 | |
We want to make sure that we're balanced across age, across socioeconomic status. So demographically, those are some data points | 00:49:25 | |
that. | 00:49:29 | |
To the extent that we can get people to answer them, we need that data. | 00:49:33 | |
My point would be though, I mean from my standpoint, what I really care about is. | 00:49:41 | |
How do you feel about arose? How do you feel about our police? How do you know? How did that trending? And I don't particularly | 00:49:46 | |
care. | 00:49:49 | |
What gender you are, how much money you make if you're a resident. | 00:49:52 | |
That's what I care about. Info. | 00:49:56 | |
Just a little bit. | 00:49:59 | |
The danger? | 00:50:01 | |
Is if we don't gather that information, if we don't know? | 00:50:03 | |
What age our residents are or what income bracket they're in. | 00:50:07 | |
There could be a group that were systematically underrepresented. | 00:50:11 | |
I think their attitudes are significantly different in regards to police or roads or city services byways. | 00:50:14 | |
Sidewalks. | 00:50:22 | |
We want to know, Yeah, OK. But we've got a representative. OK. Yeah, All right. I'm just looking at it as we go through this and | 00:50:23 | |
trying to figure out a way to. | 00:50:28 | |
Steve, we could you know if. | 00:50:34 | |
If people are going to take it, great, but my first? | 00:50:36 | |
Impressions. It seems really long, yeah. And so this case. | 00:50:39 | |
So the survey as it stands now is probably around 18 minutes. And how long would you recommend ideally we're staying? | 00:50:44 | |
Around 15. | 00:50:57 | |
That would put us cutting. | 00:50:59 | |
You would be surprised how much residents want to talk about the city they live in though, so we can usually get away with 12 to | 00:51:02 | |
15 minutes for something that is. | 00:51:06 | |
Close to residents hearts and. | 00:51:11 | |
We have a lot of. | 00:51:13 | |
Of goodwill and civic duty to draw on for this type of research here. So we've had success with that in the past. | 00:51:14 | |
But adding. | 00:51:21 | |
All of these new lines of questioning. | 00:51:23 | |
Would present some difficulties, I think for overall completion rates, so. | 00:51:25 | |
Looking for some areas where we would need to trim back. We're probably looking at cutting a series of five to six questions | 00:51:31 | |
ideally. The clubs and groups section I think is. | 00:51:36 | |
Helpful, but not that. | 00:51:42 | |
Yeah, well, I was reading through that, my first question. | 00:51:43 | |
Was why do they need this and now second? | 00:51:47 | |
Was this moving? Feels a little bit invasive. | 00:51:51 | |
OK, I think it probably. | 00:51:54 | |
Came from the. Yeah, I can see right, Yeah. | 00:51:58 | |
Right, but I have the same. | 00:52:05 | |
Reaction not about the invasiveness. So Mike is just. | 00:52:08 | |
It would be nice to know, but I'm not sure it's poor. | 00:52:11 | |
If we need to trim it that second area, yeah. | 00:52:15 | |
Can I ask the question in advice to? | 00:52:19 | |
The demographics, and obviously I came in late so you probably already heard this, but. | 00:52:22 | |
Do you have like maybe just a quick explanation on why we need the demographics? I feel like if we just tell them like we need a | 00:52:26 | |
representative sample. | 00:52:30 | |
I'd like that to. | 00:52:35 | |
You know, appease some of that part of people, you know, being nervous about sharing information and the government still either | 00:52:36 | |
like, yes, that's a great idea. Yeah. Before we dive into any of those demographic questions, we do have a preface that says. | 00:52:44 | |
We have a few remaining questions for you to ensure that we have a representative sample of Holiday City residents. | 00:52:51 | |
Remember that your responses will be kept strictly confidential. These are for statistical purposes only, OK? | 00:52:57 | |
So some of these sections too like. | 00:53:04 | |
I feel like we're asking. | 00:53:07 | |
I feel like we could just ask maybe one question on streetlights or like there's somewhere we're asking lots of different | 00:53:10 | |
questions and maybe we could just. | 00:53:14 | |
Annual St. glands are a tricky example there, but I understand what you're saying. | 00:53:18 | |
The other one about why accent lighting was wondering about. | 00:53:28 | |
You know, trying to get a measure of. | 00:53:33 | |
If they care enough about the issue that they're going to have the city Reg. | 00:53:37 | |
Won't accept my as opposed to just because that's really the issue. | 00:53:41 | |
Is whether or not. | 00:53:45 | |
Citizens would be tolerant of the city engaging in. | 00:53:48 | |
That sort of. | 00:53:51 | |
Very personal regulation of foam accelerating. | 00:53:53 | |
Because it might be too bright, might be too dim, might be not not care, might might care a lot, but. | 00:53:57 | |
You care enough. | 00:54:03 | |
That you're willing to subject yourself to city regulation. | 00:54:05 | |
That's really. | 00:54:08 | |
Core issue there. I get any apps too about like sport ports and stuff like that then. | 00:54:09 | |
Pack that bike. | 00:54:15 | |
Broad match conclude. | 00:54:20 | |
One that I think. | 00:54:31 | |
If we were to broaden it, I think it distills the usefulness of the information that we're getting in anyone regard. So I don't | 00:54:34 | |
know if there's a way to. | 00:54:40 | |
Succinctly. | 00:54:46 | |
Expand that, but still get good quality data that addresses these questions. | 00:54:48 | |
Maybe it is. | 00:54:53 | |
Just down to what? | 00:54:55 | |
Types of. | 00:54:56 | |
Private property features residents feel the city should be allowed to regulate and that could be sort of a multiple choice | 00:55:00 | |
approach. | 00:55:04 | |
With none of the above option, because maybe they don't care strongly enough about any of these things. | 00:55:09 | |
Got it. | 00:55:16 | |
So if I could talk just a moment about how? | 00:55:27 | |
How the process we use to come up with a list that you see in front of you? | 00:55:30 | |
So Holly and I met with Kyrene and looked at the survey as a. | 00:55:34 | |
When has gone out in prior years? | 00:55:40 | |
And then we tried to think of other priority issues and areas of interest of the Council. | 00:55:43 | |
And then Kareem. | 00:55:51 | |
Suggested some questions to us. We may have gotten this wrong. | 00:55:53 | |
So home accent lighting. | 00:55:57 | |
We may have a different direction now than we had two months ago. | 00:56:00 | |
We're completely open if there are areas that you don't want to ask. | 00:56:06 | |
You feel like you have the information you need. We can certainly take those out. | 00:56:11 | |
I'm worse concerned about the lane. | 00:56:17 | |
And you would know better which question is. | 00:56:23 | |
However you feel. | 00:56:35 | |
That we can still meet the objectives to get information that we needed. | 00:56:37 | |
So that's a great question. We had some conversation about that today. One of our challenges we had intended to go in the field, I | 00:56:44 | |
think. | 00:56:48 | |
Yeah. | 00:56:54 | |
We have a questionnaire for the general plan that has also is also being shared with residents and we thought that could be a | 00:56:56 | |
little confusing, so Kyrie came up with. | 00:57:01 | |
A better time frame today. | 00:57:07 | |
So our suggested timeline to make sure that we're not stepping on toes or confusing residents with multiple surveys fielding at | 00:57:09 | |
St. | 00:57:13 | |
Is that the week after the general planned survey that's currently on the website has closed? | 00:57:16 | |
Is when we will send out or residents will start receiving invitations to participate in this survey. | 00:57:22 | |
We'll also have. | 00:57:28 | |
A short explanation in the invitation language that says. | 00:57:29 | |
If you participated in the General Plan survey, we appreciate your input. This is a longitudinal study that the community has been | 00:57:34 | |
doing for years, and we're looking to track some of the aspects of quality of life and holiday overtime. | 00:57:40 | |
Your participation in a scientific survey is very important. | 00:57:47 | |
So hopefully that. | 00:57:50 | |
Encourages participation without detracting participation in the general plan survey and allows us to. | 00:57:51 | |
To get that good representative sample that we need. | 00:57:58 | |
Are you concerned at all about the? | 00:58:00 | |
The overall related shell shock. | 00:58:04 | |
Lots of citizens are presently in. | 00:58:06 | |
And how that could skew results. | 00:58:08 | |
Well. | 00:58:11 | |
In conversational. | 00:58:19 | |
Was immediately. | 00:58:22 | |
Height of the pandemic. | 00:58:23 | |
And he saw in some of our quality of life ratings, just overall sentiment. | 00:58:26 | |
Residents up and down the WASAF front, not unique to holiday. | 00:58:33 | |
Residents were a little bit. | 00:58:37 | |
Grouchy, a little bit more pessimistic than they have been in here. | 00:58:39 | |
I wouldn't be surprised if you see some of that in the general sentiment question with one of the survey. But when we get into the | 00:58:43 | |
specific city service issues when we're looking at. | 00:58:48 | |
Sidewalks of streetlights and those things that. | 00:58:53 | |
Are a little bit closer to home for residents. I don't expect that we'll see that same effect. | 00:58:55 | |
Translate in ways that is, that are. | 00:59:01 | |
Misleading. | 00:59:05 | |
Presumably the general plan survey questions. | 00:59:07 | |
And there's no, I need to go through the general plan questionnaire a little bit more closely or Gina sent that over to me today. | 00:59:11 | |
So I'll make sure we don't have any. | 00:59:16 | |
Unnecessary overlap there. | 00:59:22 | |
There are again some of our longitudinal questions. They might have some similarities. | 00:59:25 | |
And I would want to keep those in place here anyway because that is how we've been tracking the health of the city overtime. | 00:59:30 | |
If we do, I'm looking at the 2022. | 00:59:38 | |
Did we do one prior to that as well? Did we do that? | 00:59:42 | |
So I mean to me. | 00:59:48 | |
A couple of things. | 00:59:54 | |
1 is when can we expect? | 00:59:55 | |
For White 2 to present the results of. | 00:59:58 | |
That's the other things that I talked about today. So we're planning on the 1st Council meeting in April is that we would share | 01:00:01 | |
results. | 01:00:05 | |
One comment I have is your budget. Yeah, this is a great like first presentation. | 01:00:09 | |
You know, and the Gina will come in. | 01:00:16 | |
You know, we'll start having a tentative budget, but I think it's great for the Council. | 01:00:18 | |
To have a baseline of kind of where things are at, but. | 01:00:23 | |
What's most important to me about the survey results is because some of these questions, honestly, you know what the answer is | 01:00:26 | |
going to be, right? | 01:00:29 | |
Yeah, yeah, your roads could be better, yeah. | 01:00:34 | |
But what is the? | 01:00:37 | |
I'm really interested in. | 01:00:39 | |
What the trending is? | 01:00:41 | |
Over. I don't know what's a, you know, can we compare? | 01:00:43 | |
19/22/25 and the you know, see what our residents feel about. | 01:00:46 | |
The direction of the city. | 01:00:53 | |
And get a sense of. | 01:00:55 | |
Give ourselves an honest appraisal of what our residents think about the job we're doing or where they think we should be. | 01:00:58 | |
Focusing our resources as we enter this budget season, I think that's really helpful information for the. | 01:01:07 | |
In that section at the front of the survey where we finally minimal treatment. | 01:01:13 | |
Or three through quickly. Those are the things that we are being longitudinally that we will be able to report. | 01:01:18 | |
How it has changed, if at all, since 2017? | 01:01:23 | |
Yeah, I mean, I would have to leave it to. I mean, I agree with them. I'll leave. | 01:01:27 | |
I don't want to go through this thing question by question, but if we could, if you guys could go through it and say? | 01:01:32 | |
With the goal of seeing if we could. | 01:01:38 | |
Could get the survey down to 1314 minute time frame but still get. | 01:01:41 | |
Really good information for us, I think that would be great. But I think for us the most important thing, at least for me, is I | 01:01:46 | |
want to see that. | 01:01:50 | |
Comparative data and get a real sense of. | 01:01:54 | |
Where our community thinks we are going and. | 01:01:57 | |
How we're doing and. | 01:02:01 | |
Where they'd like to see us focus and. | 01:02:02 | |
Where they want us to commit more resources, less resources. | 01:02:05 | |
Point taken. And Kyrene, sorry to interrupt. No, please. But what's also very helpful and you've done this in the past. | 01:02:10 | |
Is also give us just kind of your general view of. | 01:02:16 | |
How this relates to other? | 01:02:23 | |
Municipalities that you survey, you know how you think holiday ranks in that regard too, Because I know it's not an exact science, | 01:02:26 | |
right? So. | 01:02:30 | |
Yeah. | 01:02:35 | |
So I think the. | 01:02:43 | |
The question. | 01:02:44 | |
Is pulling the nose. | 01:02:45 | |
Benchmarking questions so. | 01:02:50 | |
We've been using for a. | 01:02:51 | |
Some time now. | 01:02:53 | |
Are there? | 01:02:55 | |
New lines of inquiry that we've added. | 01:02:56 | |
That should be deprioritized. Is there something that is very high priority to the Council that. | 01:02:59 | |
We have missed. | 01:03:05 | |
As we've aggregated these questions that we should remove some of these things and refocus our attention. | 01:03:07 | |
Doctor, do you want to ask? | 01:03:13 | |
We have a set of sustainability questions and those were some that we cut for time, so we can go back and make that shift if | 01:03:30 | |
there's something else that you would prefer to cut instead. | 01:03:35 | |
We're out of this or that point in this survey, so. | 01:03:41 | |
To be it's an important issue. | 01:03:45 | |
Hey, you've just added three questions. | 01:03:52 | |
Yeah, so. | 01:03:57 | |
All right, So scrapping clubs and groups, adding the sustainability section back, we can work from that. | 01:04:09 | |
So wherever we started, yeah, we're basically adding events, so. | 01:04:18 | |
So seems like. | 01:04:24 | |
There are several questions that are. | 01:04:26 | |
Sort of overlapping. | 01:04:29 | |
And I know that, David. | 01:04:31 | |
That maybe. | 01:04:34 | |
We can go through any which one which reason is more something than the other. Sure, I'm happy to go through and make | 01:04:36 | |
recommendations as to how we can streamline within topics, but if there are? | 01:04:42 | |
Again, any of these issues that we could deprioritize or shelf for a moment, those are the things that we'd like to know because. | 01:04:49 | |
While we can shave off a question here and there, eliminating some of those redundancies. | 01:04:57 | |
A new block of questions is carrying more weight than than slimming things down in other places. | 01:05:03 | |
Typically so. | 01:05:10 | |
Maybe this was extended with the illness. | 01:05:12 | |
But I wondered. | 01:05:14 | |
Probably it could be updated to. | 01:05:22 | |
And we can revisit that. I'll make sure that we are maintaining some parity with the the census distribution. | 01:05:26 | |
So it sounds like you'd like us to just go back and focus rather than. | 01:05:35 | |
Other than clubs, eliminate any. | 01:05:42 | |
Section that we've identified one of the nice like interesting versus usable kind of a thing. | 01:05:45 | |
Even if it gets down to. | 01:05:54 | |
Usable for core services. | 01:05:57 | |
If we have to go between necessary and useful. | 01:05:59 | |
OK. | 01:06:10 | |
Well, that sounds like you should get some time on the calendar with. | 01:06:14 | |
Sounds like it. | 01:06:18 | |
We'll look at something next week. | 01:06:20 | |
That sounds good. | 01:06:24 | |
I think then yeah, this just brings us to our demographic functions at the end of the survey, so. | 01:06:26 | |
Any other questions or comments for me before we go put our notes Absolutely right so. | 01:06:32 | |
How many municipalities do you present? | 01:06:38 | |
All of the municipalities that went to works with but I would have to do a quick mentality. | 01:06:43 | |
Work somewhere in the realm of 20 cities. | 01:06:48 | |
Some rotation, some of them are annually, some of them are biannually. | 01:06:53 | |
So you're very fast and use these questions. I'm assuming we have like. | 01:06:56 | |
We thought you're not reinventing. We're not reinventing the wheel as. | 01:07:01 | |
As often as possible there are some of the some of the topics. | 01:07:06 | |
That Holly and Gina had us introduced this year. We did not have standardized questions or from other communities. So there are a | 01:07:10 | |
few places here and there where. | 01:07:14 | |
We really. | 01:07:19 | |
Are tailoring something specific to holiday? But for the most part we do want to create something that is comparable to what we're | 01:07:20 | |
doing in other communities. | 01:07:24 | |
Well, thank you all for your time. | 01:07:32 | |
Thank you. Thanks so much. | 01:07:35 | |
The work is in the details on that fix for the holiday. Again, that's like. | 01:07:40 | |
It's really cool. | 01:07:46 | |
Integrity was fantastic. | 01:07:49 | |
Always do your stairs. | 01:07:56 | |
But like some of my business stuff. | 01:08:00 | |
What businesses come in and out of here, I guess. | 01:08:04 | |
And can do that if you could information for and. | 01:08:07 | |
He needs to go and bring. | 01:08:12 | |
Trying to recruit. | 01:08:15 | |
Some kind of business or businesses that are missing in the city. | 01:08:17 | |
And that's exactly the purpose for that question. | 01:08:21 | |
She's going to target her like a boutique, yeah. | 01:08:26 | |
Yeah, that's frustrating. Things for me is like. | 01:08:31 | |
They're going to tell you, oh, we want better restaurants in the city. | 01:08:36 | |
But we don't want more people to live in the city. It's like, well. | 01:08:40 | |
Yeah, yeah. And it's like, well. | 01:08:46 | |
We can't. | 01:08:50 | |
Nice places to shop. People need to go shop there to keep them in business and so there's this. | 01:08:51 | |
Anyway, umm. | 01:08:57 | |
All right. | 01:08:59 | |
Sure. So this came. | 01:09:01 | |
I'm trying to go back on this. As we were talking we had some. | 01:09:04 | |
Residents coming in and. | 01:09:08 | |
Talking about, you know, this new. | 01:09:10 | |
Ockerland, yes. | 01:09:13 | |
Yes, I think that. I think the two new homes on Walker Lane and Cottonwood Lane. | 01:09:16 | |
Or two that kind of spurred. | 01:09:23 | |
Start, but the discussion started before that, right? This has been. | 01:09:25 | |
Kind of brewing. | 01:09:29 | |
Residential properties treat. | 01:09:33 | |
Lighting is concerned. | 01:09:36 | |
We've historically had. | 01:09:38 | |
Commercial lighting standards that protect residential powers from development. | 01:09:40 | |
So now with the. | 01:09:46 | |
Readily available product. | 01:09:47 | |
Lights, they're so cheap and they're learning different color spectrums. | 01:09:50 | |
They're becoming. | 01:09:55 | |
From a resident's point of view, and he learned a nuisance between neighbor and neighbor only a commercial property. | 01:09:57 | |
Your Planning Commission right now currently reviews. | 01:10:04 | |
All site planets for planning standards, they go through a limited study to find out where the property lots. | 01:10:07 | |
Necklords are 7 lift. | 01:10:13 | |
Never had them. | 01:10:15 | |
Required of the lighting standard or lighting study but. | 01:10:17 | |
So in your packet is a staff report, but also. | 01:10:21 | |
Two different draft ordinances. | 01:10:26 | |
That you can take a look at in. | 01:10:28 | |
One of them is a draft ordinance that basically will just insert. | 01:10:31 | |
Into the residential zones. | 01:10:37 | |
There's a table in the staff report that shows. | 01:10:40 | |
Its own commercial properties and what the lighting standards are there. | 01:10:43 | |
And we would just do something similar. | 01:10:48 | |
Taking the draft ordinance at the end of the packet and just inserting it into the art. | 01:10:50 | |
Cheap clubs. | 01:10:55 | |
The second set of draft verdicts is something that would probably be recommended. | 01:10:58 | |
Definitely by my department. | 01:11:04 | |
Holistic Review. | 01:11:06 | |
We remove all of the lighting standards from all of the zones and create one location. | 01:11:08 | |
You know it has its own chapter in title. | 01:11:13 | |
Their title and chapter that addresses residential commercial properties. | 01:11:15 | |
More holistic with you. So that's what you would put Frankie. | 01:11:19 | |
Yeah, why? | 01:11:23 | |
That one is because we have the opportunity to take a look at how all properties are addressed together. | 01:11:25 | |
Rather than having to address specific standard specific zones because you're getting to the point where there shouldn't be | 01:11:31 | |
specialized. | 01:11:35 | |
Lighting standards for specific. | 01:11:40 | |
You know, commercials, online and residential properties. | 01:11:42 | |
There still is residential standards in that second section, the second draft code. | 01:11:45 | |
And then all the other commercial problems are through the left there. | 01:11:49 | |
Standard, but then that gives us an opportunity to. | 01:11:53 | |
Provide a developer or property owner as to examples of. | 01:11:57 | |
What a full cutoff blood. | 01:12:01 | |
How can pedestrian lighting work more properly or properly as far as. | 01:12:05 | |
Security. | 01:12:09 | |
And also accident fighting. | 01:12:11 | |
It gives you the opportunity to take a look at citywide. | 01:12:13 | |
The spectrum or the Kelvin range of what light is that is. | 01:12:17 | |
One of the in terms of implementation, unfortunately we're talking about. | 01:12:24 | |
The review for. | 01:12:29 | |
The new remodels, building permits or does it? | 01:12:31 | |
Place an onus on existing. | 01:12:35 | |
Lighting where you have to then go in. | 01:12:37 | |
Code enforcement comes around and say that's no good anymore. It's been there for 20 years. Yeah, there's existing lighting. We'd | 01:12:41 | |
be recommending a nuisance enforcement. | 01:12:45 | |
That it provides a nuisance issue based upon the standards that are in here and the glare. | 01:12:49 | |
You know, opposing traffic that has a problem with. | 01:12:56 | |
Confusing traffic with. | 01:13:01 | |
In pedestrian. | 01:13:03 | |
Blockability issues from driving down the street if that glare is actually so bright you can't see. | 01:13:05 | |
Happens anymore because you drive up and down. | 01:13:10 | |
Most of the streets in the city. | 01:13:15 | |
Especially and even in the area. | 01:13:17 | |
There's a lot of. | 01:13:20 | |
Residential. | 01:13:21 | |
Lighting. It's on gates and fences and such. | 01:13:22 | |
The difference between those that are more acceptable and others that are might be. | 01:13:27 | |
And more pragmatic is the color. | 01:13:32 | |
And that's what would be. | 01:13:34 | |
Interested. I have the enforcement. | 01:13:36 | |
For construction, it would be anything. It would be the new construction. So a difference in new builds. Yeah, we need to have a | 01:13:39 | |
lighting plan show. | 01:13:42 | |
What's being proposed as far as security in the accent, that new construction, new remodel, that's an easier course because it's | 01:13:47 | |
in process. | 01:13:51 | |
Enforcing the new standards. | 01:13:55 | |
Existing that may have been for years and years and years and all of a sudden. | 01:13:58 | |
If you did. | 01:14:07 | |
I'm still, yeah. | 01:14:12 | |
But but it would be case by case based off of reported, correct? | 01:14:16 | |
And we define what the news we would do nothing unless there's no claim, essentially. | 01:14:21 | |
On existing. | 01:14:26 | |
You'd have to have if it's providing a nuisance issue, but they would what they would require the property to do. | 01:14:31 | |
Is to sort of register a non compliant. | 01:14:38 | |
Situation. | 01:14:41 | |
So whenever you have a new ordinance that's provided. | 01:14:42 | |
And that creates non compliance. | 01:14:45 | |
Situations like an Adu or a house. | 01:14:48 | |
We need to know when that was actually put in place. | 01:14:51 | |
If it's creating a nuisance with that new situation that's you have to implicit, you're equally at cost. | 01:14:55 | |
Yeah, 'cause I was looking at this like. | 01:15:02 | |
Any permit? | 01:15:05 | |
From the adoption point forward. | 01:15:08 | |
Would have to comply with these standards. | 01:15:10 | |
But what you're saying is? | 01:15:13 | |
We're going to put Nords in place. | 01:15:15 | |
Allows us to enforce non compliance. | 01:15:19 | |
That's from a grandfathered standpoint, like. | 01:15:23 | |
That's what's being proposed, yeah. | 01:15:25 | |
So the example is maybe like a safety issue, Rebel light, but the glare thing was blocked and carrying visibility pedestrians, | 01:15:28 | |
yes, today we couldn't do anything about it. Have anything that has a public nuisance factor for lighting. | 01:15:35 | |
Yeah. So, Mayor, I would look at it a little bit differently. I would think you would put a new ordinance in place to regulate new | 01:15:43 | |
construction for. | 01:15:47 | |
Permit required changes. | 01:15:51 | |
And then for things that exist prior to that overnight, you wouldn't unfortunately get into those unless you're creating public. | 01:15:54 | |
And as opposed to looking at your ordinance standards to define if they're non compliant, you would. | 01:16:03 | |
You would have to rely on the public nuisance standard and that's a tough standard to me, to be honest with you. Come on. | 01:16:10 | |
The situation would have to be extreme to take enforcement action against something like that. Yeah. And that's the main. | 01:16:16 | |
Right. And that's the existing condition in the law, right? | 01:16:25 | |
To be honest with you. | 01:16:28 | |
We wouldn't enforce it, but a neighbor can enforce. | 01:16:29 | |
A nuisance type situation against their neighbor. | 01:16:32 | |
Through independent action, this would allow the city. | 01:16:36 | |
To get involved in that, but our standard to get involved is really high. | 01:16:39 | |
And the circumstances where I think we would jump into something like that. | 01:16:43 | |
Would be pretty rare. | 01:16:47 | |
What it does do? | 01:16:48 | |
Is it creates that additional burden where? | 01:16:50 | |
The neighbor can now say, as opposed to us being able to tell them, look, this is a private issue, you've got it resolved. | 01:16:53 | |
They can lean on the city to say you need to enforce the nuisance standard of your ordinance. | 01:16:59 | |
That's a pressure point that's hard, and it's the Disney standard specified. Like, would there be? | 01:17:04 | |
Some specification of what that meant in the lighting section. | 01:17:09 | |
It's a common law, kind of with Phoenix. | 01:17:13 | |
And that common law standard is high again. | 01:17:16 | |
The concern that I think the Council should have that I have. | 01:17:19 | |
Is that that's your point of citizens not saying? | 01:17:23 | |
You need to enforce the nuisance part because under your niche then. | 01:17:25 | |
That constant pressure plays hard. | 01:17:31 | |
It's hard on your staff. | 01:17:35 | |
It's hard on you taking all the calls. | 01:17:36 | |
That, you know, that's just one of those points that I think as you start to look at regulations like this, you have to think, | 01:17:38 | |
Tom. | 01:17:41 | |
So sorry you were saying that as it stands though. | 01:17:44 | |
They'd have to take. | 01:17:47 | |
Private action medium which has to come to terms or. | 01:17:48 | |
They right now a neighbor could sue another neighbor over. | 01:17:51 | |
A life situation that creates enough of a nuisance that you would say that's just too much, right? | 01:17:56 | |
That exists a lot right now. | 01:18:01 | |
We don't necessarily have a right to get involved in that unless it's. | 01:18:04 | |
Creating some kind of a public safety habit, the hazard that is beyond just neighbor, neighbor. | 01:18:09 | |
But it's broader, right? And and that again, if you think about that, that's pretty extreme situation. | 01:18:13 | |
That does make sense. | 01:18:18 | |
So. | 01:18:21 | |
I mean, what we're getting at that here opens up a can of worms. | 01:18:24 | |
For homes that were built prior to the ordinance going in place right, we're. | 01:18:29 | |
We're OK with OK going forward. | 01:18:34 | |
And I think what Emily was getting at was. | 01:18:36 | |
Was. | 01:18:39 | |
Standards. Umm. | 01:18:41 | |
1:00 and 2:00 because I look at the same way, I'm like, I thought you'd want to go to standards 1 because standard 2 would be | 01:18:43 | |
like. | 01:18:45 | |
Put all this pressure on staffing and what you're saying is the opposite. We'd rather have more. | 01:18:49 | |
Control at the outset to take a look at what the lighting plan is for home and say, hey, here's what you can and can't do. Or you | 01:18:53 | |
tell them what they can and can't do, but then you have a chance to look at it, say you need to. | 01:18:59 | |
True. Tweet these things if you're comfortable with what. | 01:19:05 | |
Has a very high standard. | 01:19:13 | |
And it's being, I mean, we tweak every single one of the ordinances if there's an amendment is difficult rather than trying to | 01:19:17 | |
just change one section. | 01:19:22 | |
Having zones to point to your outdoor lighting section as your. | 01:19:27 | |
Force as far as amendments, or at least. | 01:19:32 | |
People protection unequal education is that. | 01:19:36 | |
Independent of whether or not we decided to include residential areas, would that be helpful? | 01:19:40 | |
Anyway, yes. | 01:19:45 | |
So John, can you talk a little bit about? | 01:19:48 | |
Staff time that would be involved in reviewing these new plans. | 01:19:52 | |
And then whether we expect any resident pushback to a professionally developed and submitted fighting plan? | 01:19:56 | |
Yeah. So right now over the past five years. | 01:20:05 | |
Plan review as. | 01:20:10 | |
Both and required to be expedited. | 01:20:12 | |
But also lengthened because we have now landscaping plans and other architectural use that we have go through. | 01:20:15 | |
So reviewing the additional lighting plan would add. | 01:20:21 | |
At least 1/2 an hour of reach half the sight line, which doesn't seem very much, but when you're having to go through. | 01:20:24 | |
Multiples through the summer and it does data so there is there is a cost required there for the staff review. | 01:20:30 | |
Cost of the South and then the cost of the residence, everything. | 01:20:36 | |
Yeah, right. | 01:20:44 | |
Is that the same for? | 01:20:46 | |
Standard one and standard 2 or the standard one? Basically standard one just provides both the. | 01:20:50 | |
Give me you can go to the manufacturer of the. | 01:20:56 | |
Picture in Mumbai we have a cut sheet. | 01:20:59 | |
That we can review that. | 01:21:03 | |
So specifically what we look at when we have professionals involved. | 01:21:09 | |
Is that just like an architect you know we have? | 01:21:14 | |
The ability to defend a decision whether or not a plan complies with the code it's been designed by professionally. | 01:21:18 | |
And not just reviewed by staff and making the determination. | 01:21:25 | |
So I think maybe I was misunderstanding the standards or the levels because it sounds like what you're saying is? | 01:21:30 | |
The level 1. | 01:21:38 | |
Is dealing with. | 01:21:40 | |
Just to really face like a really straightforward standard of. | 01:21:42 | |
Level of things I know that people can buy. | 01:21:48 | |
Is there a way you could? | 01:21:50 | |
Create similar straightforwardness. | 01:21:53 | |
And and still also create what you're talking about like. | 01:21:57 | |
Citywide lighting standards or is that not yes. So if you look at the the level 2. | 01:22:00 | |
Yeah, isn't it? | 01:22:07 | |
For the end. | 01:22:13 | |
There's a residential only section. | 01:22:25 | |
And that somewhat mirrors what the level 1 standard is. | 01:22:29 | |
There is so soon he will stay glad in families or single family zones. | 01:22:36 | |
So you have a full cutoff type, fixture height and maximum height through soffits. | 01:22:41 | |
Our lighting fixtures develop the seat height of 12 feet. | 01:22:46 | |
An illumination standard with a spectrum elevation and then. | 01:22:49 | |
Switching controls. | 01:22:54 | |
And that's pretty minimal. | 01:22:55 | |
Everyone has to hire lighting professional or add an extra. The lighting pressure is in the commercial section. | 01:22:58 | |
Oh, that's in the site plan review. Yes, practically what does that look like? Is that something where? | 01:23:06 | |
General contractor. | 01:23:13 | |
Has a lagging professional that does that for them. | 01:23:14 | |
Or is it is a? | 01:23:18 | |
President for having to go out and find. | 01:23:20 | |
A light and professional to do the review. | 01:23:23 | |
Generally the the architect who's making your plans. | 01:23:26 | |
Bring your mind to have connection. | 01:23:29 | |
It's usually a pretty simple gift. | 01:23:32 | |
But would that be another person? It would be another person they would have to hire. | 01:23:35 | |
Burdensome. | 01:23:40 | |
He seemed like he can't get anything done for less than 1000 bucks. Yeah, correct. | 01:23:43 | |
If there was a way. | 01:23:51 | |
To make a more straightforward plan then you could. | 01:23:52 | |
Address. I don't see how they're related. Maybe this is what I'm starting this? | 01:23:57 | |
You've got the complex. | 01:24:02 | |
Option where you have the light pressure will go in and customize everything. | 01:24:04 | |
But then I don't know how that relates to. | 01:24:08 | |
Creating a unified citywide. | 01:24:12 | |
Lighting 30. | 01:24:14 | |
You've got standards and you've got construction of the ordinance, right? | 01:24:17 | |
The actual Fighting standards. Simple, complex. | 01:24:21 | |
And how you construct it in code? | 01:24:25 | |
Spread out through all the zones or. | 01:24:28 | |
Consolidated, there's something to be two different. | 01:24:30 | |
Thanks. Yeah, yeah. | 01:24:33 | |
Because we can make the standard straightforward so that people aren't having to hire a light professional and you guys taking | 01:24:36 | |
extra time, but then take those straightforward standards. | 01:24:41 | |
And create. | 01:24:47 | |
What you were talking about about like over a? | 01:24:48 | |
No, I don't totally understand. | 01:24:54 | |
And as long as you're comfortable with staff reviewing things that the individuals who are like the last. | 01:24:56 | |
Point of contact to be doing all this. | 01:25:01 | |
Compliance. Absolutely, yeah. | 01:25:05 | |
I'm not a lying professional. I'm Steve. | 01:25:09 | |
Well, I know what can be garish as far as safety problem. | 01:25:12 | |
And what could? | 01:25:19 | |
Basically cause a problem across neighbors but. | 01:25:20 | |
A good example that I think I showed Gina a while back. | 01:25:24 | |
Some lighting fixtures were placed on a House of Renewed. | 01:25:28 | |
It was the element on the inside that we really didn't know how intense that. | 01:25:33 | |
Light was, I mean it was under the 4000 Kelvin level, so it was in a warmer light spectrum. | 01:25:37 | |
But it had the wattage intensity of probably only three or 400 Watt bulb. | 01:25:44 | |
And it was shining directly in the neighbor's property. | 01:25:49 | |
I didn't have the. | 01:25:54 | |
Details on that cut sheet to show me what the effective reflective light would be. | 01:25:56 | |
Only just a couple of times standard. | 01:26:01 | |
Design parameters of what the color and what the intensity would be. | 01:26:04 | |
So were you saying, John, without some specificity in the ordinance, it's going to put you in a position where you're making | 01:26:09 | |
subjective determinations that maybe? | 01:26:14 | |
I think you know, maybe you're not. | 01:26:20 | |
Bring a hammer to a screwdriver guy. | 01:26:28 | |
A handful of times it might happen. | 01:26:35 | |
Yeah, how often is this? The only lagging questions I've ever had is Moore Street. People wanted more streetlights. That's the | 01:26:39 | |
only thing that I ever hear in Lighting Minds. I've never had any. | 01:26:43 | |
Links about learning and things like that. I'm sure it happens. | 01:26:48 | |
Other questions How many new builds do we? | 01:26:51 | |
Are we open here? I forget is it we have around 3030? I had said that for yourself. | 01:26:54 | |
And we averaged for complaints. | 01:27:00 | |
Uh, no more than. | 01:27:05 | |
Dozen a year per year. | 01:27:06 | |
Yeah, that's tough. It's like one of those deals where. | 01:27:09 | |
You think? | 01:27:12 | |
You don't necessarily have a law for everything, right? | 01:27:13 | |
Can I just raise my point? | 01:27:19 | |
Just kind of looking forward maybe. | 01:27:21 | |
I think this is an important discussion. I understand the problem. | 01:27:25 | |
The desire to regulate this particular issue. | 01:27:30 | |
I don't know how it would be received by. | 01:27:34 | |
Builders, I know how it will be received by the general development community. | 01:27:39 | |
They would look at this as a step backwards as opposed to forwards. | 01:27:45 | |
Along the lines of what they're trying to get to in the law, It was a couple of years ago where? | 01:27:50 | |
There is a statutory. | 01:27:55 | |
Prohibition against regulating design elements. | 01:27:57 | |
And structures and I. | 01:28:01 | |
Proceed this. | 01:28:03 | |
Next year being added to that kind of list. | 01:28:05 | |
Something like that. | 01:28:08 | |
I think you could generally get a fairly strong reaction to this type of an ordinance. | 01:28:10 | |
It just kind of. | 01:28:17 | |
I think it would be characterized as. | 01:28:18 | |
A step backwards in that little broad spectrum of city regulation about. | 01:28:21 | |
Residential development as opposed to a step further. | 01:28:26 | |
So behind that, is there also a recommendation here? | 01:28:31 | |
Making with regard to. | 01:28:35 | |
I haven't tried to dive into the ordinance in every detail and look at every part. | 01:28:37 | |
I don't necessarily have. | 01:28:45 | |
Tremendous, I guess I would say hesitancy about regulating the lighting on these structures. | 01:28:50 | |
In a way that's reasonable. One of the things I hear all the time. | 01:28:55 | |
Is you're making me spend another 1500 or $2000? | 01:28:59 | |
With the plan for my remodel. | 01:29:05 | |
Or my house at all. | 01:29:07 | |
That adding another design professional is a big thing. | 01:29:09 | |
Right now. | 01:29:13 | |
I know you said. | 01:29:16 | |
Like. | 01:29:18 | |
To me, I guess because it's not massive. | 01:29:21 | |
Problem. I'd rather. | 01:29:25 | |
I'd rather have that approach than. | 01:29:27 | |
Requiring everybody to hire another professional and. | 01:29:30 | |
Yeah. And then to address the. | 01:29:33 | |
The principles of concern, you know about light trespass and and that. | 01:29:37 | |
If if your lighting design ends up. | 01:29:44 | |
Once installed. | 01:29:48 | |
You know, having a polite trespass problem the city. | 01:29:50 | |
Supportive of your neighbor's complaint. | 01:29:55 | |
You know, sort of thing where he doesn't put so much detail bonus on you guys. | 01:29:57 | |
But rather to encourage. | 01:30:04 | |
Conscientiousness as opposed to. | 01:30:07 | |
Overspecific prescription. | 01:30:11 | |
I think part of like this. | 01:30:14 | |
Came to the Council. | 01:30:16 | |
Community Compliance. | 01:30:20 | |
Well, two houses on Walker, but we've got one on Lakewood too. | 01:30:25 | |
That was built. That's got a. | 01:30:31 | |
Probably 20 foot peak like this and it's got these. | 01:30:34 | |
What do you call those thoughts at live to them and when they turn them on, it's like a Christmas tree and so it. | 01:30:37 | |
And so, but there are specific instances where, and I think what the Council is saying is. | 01:30:43 | |
Yeah, we've had specific instances that are problem, but do we want to? | 01:30:48 | |
Then go put in an ordinance that requires us to. | 01:30:53 | |
Hire a design professional which sounds like an. | 01:30:56 | |
We don't want to do that. Yeah. So I guess the question back to you, John, is? | 01:31:00 | |
Is there a more? | 01:31:05 | |
Is there any way that those? | 01:31:08 | |
Situations could have been avoided a little bit without taking a hammer. | 01:31:11 | |
To the ordinance and maybe there's not I don't know maybe we just have to even an educational PC. That's funny Mayor and John and | 01:31:15 | |
this last week went about two weeks in this Adu issue. | 01:31:20 | |
Where I love this line that this. | 01:31:25 | |
Constituent gave, he said. You know, dispute, I think it was. | 01:31:27 | |
Very justified his dissatisfaction with seeing you. | 01:31:31 | |
He told his neighbor. He said, look, you may have complied with. | 01:31:34 | |
The with holidays. | 01:31:37 | |
Law or rule? | 01:31:41 | |
But you didn't. | 01:31:43 | |
I would love to see it. | 01:31:46 | |
Where when builders come in or you know, or whatever, the first thing they should say is. | 01:31:48 | |
Think about the golden rule when you're building the home, yeah, or whatever. And that's. | 01:31:53 | |
The PowerPoint, you know, if we could address the principle wise and. | 01:31:56 | |
If there's some way, it's a. | 01:32:00 | |
I don't know. I know it's more of a persuasion rather than. | 01:32:02 | |
That we handle the law and whatever. | 01:32:04 | |
Call attention to these things best practices. | 01:32:06 | |
And we want to build our home. Those sofa lights are our builder discourse it because. | 01:32:09 | |
I think the exact discussion was that I like that, yeah. And I think the primary concern from staff would be. | 01:32:13 | |
It's not like you're inspecting something like as it's being built for compliance. | 01:32:20 | |
You're having to wait until the. | 01:32:26 | |
Are installed powered on at night to see. | 01:32:28 | |
It's like I know it when I see it type of situation. | 01:32:32 | |
So good stuff. And curtain would be what you said 12 completely right. Yeah, I think of that. | 01:32:37 | |
I could run the report, I'm not sure sure, it doesn't seem like it's. | 01:32:42 | |
That's not existing. Largely not existing. | 01:32:49 | |
Yeah. | 01:32:53 | |
It's largely on. | 01:32:55 | |
Version of existing lighting. Usually we'll get. | 01:32:57 | |
Individual who's installed with a spotlight or a ring Cam. | 01:33:00 | |
About those are pointed so very. | 01:33:03 | |
Egregiously the biggest obstacle. | 01:33:07 | |
I mean, it's justifiable. I mean, I think from a negative externality kind of thing, light trespasses. | 01:33:10 | |
There's a, there's a property, right? That's kind of to a degree. | 01:33:16 | |
But I agree, we could make it. | 01:33:23 | |
Not the hammer. | 01:33:25 | |
And more principle based, is that helpful? Sure. I mean if that's something that we want to take to the Planning Commission for | 01:33:27 | |
this Level 1 standard? | 01:33:31 | |
We can just insert that right in through. | 01:33:36 | |
And the R1 and R2 are the zones. | 01:33:38 | |
And it will address your concern with your nonperforming fixtures in that section that talks about. | 01:33:42 | |
Anything that would be installed at the time of this. | 01:33:48 | |
Adoption. Umm. | 01:33:51 | |
It would be grandfathers, essentially. | 01:33:52 | |
Non conforming by fixture. | 01:33:54 | |
When would you feel comfortable with that type of review? | 01:34:01 | |
Do you feel like your staff have the qualifications to do that type of review? | 01:34:07 | |
My staff is not trained at elimination. | 01:34:13 | |
Reviews. | 01:34:17 | |
But if I have a standard that says it has to be 4000 Kelvin and I have a cut sheet of the fixture that says this light is. | 01:34:19 | |
Meets that standard. | 01:34:27 | |
We would have to accept it. | 01:34:29 | |
And then go out and verify that what actually gets installed. | 01:34:30 | |
And that would be as part of the inspection. | 01:34:35 | |
Of the occupancy section. When would we do that? A separate inspection? | 01:34:40 | |
So I thought this is only going to be. | 01:34:47 | |
We have to verify that it's been completed and it hasn't been completed or incomplete and. | 01:34:53 | |
Potentially fall back. | 01:34:59 | |
So we're adding staff time, let's say 1/2 an hour for 35. So it's. | 01:35:01 | |
A weakish. | 01:35:07 | |
Of time a little more than. | 01:35:09 | |
These are new builds that aren't really the problem. This isn't the retrofitted. | 01:35:12 | |
Those were a lot of the complaints are coming from. Is that right? | 01:35:17 | |
Well, the arts, Well, the year is. | 01:35:21 | |
Replacement of existing fixtures, but then we do have the. | 01:35:24 | |
The homes that decided to put. | 01:35:27 | |
Well, the issue is not necessarily homes whipping lighting, it's homes where there wasn't a house before. | 01:35:29 | |
Mm-hmm. This was these two lots on. | 01:35:35 | |
Monitor were part of the larger piece that was subdivided out and they were heavily wooded. | 01:35:39 | |
They never had really a resident right up on, residents right up on. | 01:35:44 | |
And then they went. | 01:35:52 | |
And then in terms of other staff costs, we'll have let's say A2 hour minimum for an inspection after hours. | 01:35:54 | |
Or they provide some Zola grandchild. | 01:36:04 | |
So it's. | 01:36:10 | |
It's not an inconsequential expenditure from a staff to my perspective. | 01:36:12 | |
Is there? Could could be? | 01:36:18 | |
Maybe like. | 01:36:20 | |
Rather than go for it, could we take the easing and approach and is there, is there an opportunity to have the conversation at | 01:36:21 | |
least on every new build? | 01:36:25 | |
That like a box that you check. Like we've talked to them about being conscientious of their writing. | 01:36:29 | |
We have what's called project information guides. They're not ordinance, they're not law, right? | 01:36:35 | |
They're sort of. | 01:36:40 | |
Like here's Energy Star appliances, you can put it in the house. | 01:36:42 | |
It's it's specifically talks about types of fixtures that. | 01:36:46 | |
Are generally accepted. | 01:36:50 | |
I could show you what that guide looks like. | 01:36:52 | |
What color spectrums you should select through outside lighting, but you're handing it to panicking on them reading of what's | 01:36:54 | |
probably not gonna happen. You're handing it to the owner or to the builder, or usually this to the builder. | 01:37:00 | |
And that's, I don't think that one. | 01:37:07 | |
How we do that effective I on houses? Honestly, I rarely. | 01:37:09 | |
Interactive stuff. | 01:37:13 | |
But you do interact with the builder and that's where again I don't know if there's ways where. | 01:37:17 | |
Your staff, you just, you know, maybe it's kind of a preemptive. | 01:37:22 | |
Part of your dialogue that you have on a regular basis. | 01:37:28 | |
That's 20 seconds rather than two hours after hours and. | 01:37:31 | |
On site inspections and stuff like that where it's just. | 01:37:36 | |
Somehow weaved into the process where it's a. | 01:37:39 | |
Point was discussed. | 01:37:42 | |
You know where there's a plea made for sure. | 01:37:44 | |
Trying to decide where we're at on this discussion. Well, I mean. | 01:37:52 | |
Fall back on what my recommendation because. | 01:37:55 | |
The ordinance for having outdoor lighting should be all in one place. | 01:37:58 | |
Rather than sporadic and inconsistent. | 01:38:03 | |
Food's on design. | 01:38:05 | |
I think we're all cool with that, yeah. | 01:38:07 | |
Sure, yes. | 01:38:11 | |
I guess at a really basic level I'd like to understand whether there is support to move forward. This would mean, because it's | 01:38:13 | |
affecting Title 13, would need to go to the Planning Commission first. | 01:38:19 | |
So it. | 01:38:25 | |
This will get. | 01:38:27 | |
There's a lot of time involved if the Council is not supportive conceptually. | 01:38:29 | |
I think Todd has given us some. | 01:38:36 | |
Another perspective to consider in terms of how this type of ordinance could be interpreted at a state level. | 01:38:39 | |
Is there support on the Council? | 01:38:49 | |
From 4 of you to move forward with this type of ordinance. | 01:38:52 | |
Does moving it all to one place in the code require going to the Planning Commission? | 01:38:56 | |
I don't think we're going to avoid that. | 01:39:04 | |
And. | 01:39:07 | |
I think we. | 01:39:09 | |
That's fine, but is what you're asking Gina is. | 01:39:10 | |
Making. | 01:39:12 | |
Fundamental changes to the code beyond that, that's going to. | 01:39:14 | |
Umm, really involve. | 01:39:18 | |
Dramatically changing. Maybe not dramatically, maybe not, but substantially changing. | 01:39:21 | |
Staff time and requiring. | 01:39:27 | |
A homeowner or builder to hire a lighting professional. | 01:39:30 | |
It doesn't seem like there's an app, but we're not there yet primarily. | 01:39:34 | |
Like trespass, Yeah, and instead of? | 01:39:40 | |
Getting overly technical on the fixtures, but rather. | 01:39:43 | |
If you have. | 01:39:46 | |
A light trespass of a certainly measurement or beyond. | 01:39:47 | |
The city would support. | 01:39:53 | |
Complaint against you. | 01:39:54 | |
Yeah. But I think we need to understand that they don't engage. They don't. | 01:39:57 | |
But that's that's going to be a very high thought. | 01:40:06 | |
To enforce that right like what what's life drops past I mean, and I don't know if that. | 01:40:08 | |
Bar would be quite. | 01:40:13 | |
Sort of just a general nuisance standard overall. | 01:40:15 | |
To define like the issue. | 01:40:21 | |
Without having to get into measuring what actually. | 01:40:25 | |
Yeah. | 01:40:28 | |
Usually they address it by just saying, look, your picture has to have. | 01:40:29 | |
The full cutoff would work. | 01:40:33 | |
I can't perceive the source of the light. | 01:40:35 | |
Across the horizon. | 01:40:38 | |
So if I'm standing below a fixture, that's where I see the light element, or if I'm above it at level or above it, then I don't. | 01:40:40 | |
Problems that we have soffit lights when you're 35 feet in the air and that. | 01:40:47 | |
Spotlight bulb is definitely. | 01:40:52 | |
The element that you're seeing we're proceeding. | 01:40:55 | |
And that could go across the street, that could go, you know, to the neighbor's property. | 01:40:57 | |
Yeah, so that doesn't solve the problem. | 01:41:03 | |
Just. | 01:41:05 | |
Because if it's too high. | 01:41:08 | |
You solve nothing. | 01:41:09 | |
And so the issue is the light trespass regardless of the fixture. | 01:41:11 | |
Is there a? | 01:41:15 | |
Recognize definition of like trespass that we believe. | 01:41:16 | |
There is Dark Sky Association does have them. | 01:41:21 | |
We can. We can definitely put it in there. | 01:41:23 | |
The issue is how to measure it. | 01:41:26 | |
With a violation. | 01:41:28 | |
So I'm either standing at a property line with a light either. | 01:41:30 | |
Measuring amount of Loomis coming out of that fixture morning receiving what that where the element is. | 01:41:33 | |
I think it's it's more or less the indiscriminate use of. It's an issue on the radio night path. | 01:41:41 | |
Yeah, I mean, I also don't want to be bleeding edge. | 01:41:47 | |
Inventing a wheel here. We're not that I'm trying to address the principle of the problem and not. | 01:41:50 | |
But but I don't know if there's a way to do that without reinventing it or creating a new wheel. | 01:42:00 | |
Is there really a dressing kind of in the nuisance? | 01:42:07 | |
Principle not I don't know that. | 01:42:11 | |
Well, like if your neighbors. Yeah, I think I know it's. | 01:42:17 | |
Property that and you just leave that. | 01:42:22 | |
Less. | 01:42:25 | |
Just like a rational man standard. | 01:42:27 | |
I don't know, leave it up to the enforcement officer to make that determination. Is that that's probably fully subjective. | 01:42:30 | |
Yeah, that sounds like no way. | 01:42:38 | |
And I think Tom would much rather have standard. | 01:42:43 | |
Well, I think I mean the issue is we're trying to. | 01:42:46 | |
We've had. | 01:42:50 | |
A handful of incidents that are a problem, right? And so now we're trying to. | 01:42:52 | |
What you know. | 01:42:57 | |
Break this code to address those issues and I think what? | 01:42:58 | |
Emily's trying to get into their way. | 01:43:02 | |
Say, hey, yeah, let's combine the codes to make it easy. But then can we? | 01:43:05 | |
Address those handful of incidents through. | 01:43:08 | |
You know. | 01:43:12 | |
Through a nuisance code and trying to get code enforcement to work with the neighbors to solve the problems rather than. | 01:43:14 | |
Take a hammer to it and create a whole book. | 01:43:20 | |
Regs regulation and and and burden property of, you know, burden people with. | 01:43:24 | |
Now we gotta. | 01:43:29 | |
Now we got a higher lighting professional and now we got to have somebody on staff to review what the code is and then they got to | 01:43:31 | |
go. | 01:43:34 | |
I mean that's the issue is we're. | 01:43:37 | |
Nobody wants to do that at this point. | 01:43:40 | |
We haven't reached the point where we have enough of an issue that we want to do that. | 01:43:47 | |
On the other hand. | 01:43:53 | |
There is kind of this thing that if you let someone in, put in the light. | 01:43:54 | |
And then they're like. | 01:43:58 | |
I got the permit I put in there. | 01:44:01 | |
A neighbors man in your town? | 01:44:03 | |
Change. | 01:44:07 | |
Yeah. | 01:44:09 | |
They you say this is the standard. | 01:44:12 | |
When you go during the day during. | 01:44:16 | |
Inspection. They say they've got the standard. | 01:44:18 | |
Then their neighbor complained six months later. | 01:44:20 | |
That they're not meeting the standard. | 01:44:23 | |
And so then it's back on you. You said you met the standard, you signed something or whatever saying I'm meeting this standard. | 01:44:26 | |
So putting it on them rather than on staff during the inspection. | 01:44:33 | |
OK. Yeah, you may clear the standard, but we're not going to expect to inspect it. But then if there's a complaint and you're out | 01:44:38 | |
of it. | 01:44:43 | |
What's the approach where they're given? | 01:44:52 | |
It's a lot of hearing officer time. | 01:44:57 | |
But and the standard would be a like trust that standard that. | 01:45:00 | |
A fixture stand. | 01:45:05 | |
I'm not sure where we are other than. | 01:45:08 | |
More efficiently cleaning up the code, but I don't think that does anything unless I'm wrong. | 01:45:11 | |
Of addressing the original problem we are trying to solve here, right? | 01:45:19 | |
What's that? | 01:45:23 | |
Fiesta relatively small. | 01:45:25 | |
Yeah, it's a. | 01:45:27 | |
It's an isolated problem. | 01:45:29 | |
And the Council doesn't have, I think I'm summarizing it, the council doesn't have the appetite. | 01:45:31 | |
To put in an overburden some code. | 01:45:37 | |
To handle what are pretty isolated issues in terms of lighting. | 01:45:41 | |
Yeah, even though we're empathetic to the situation, I mean. | 01:45:47 | |
Yeah. | 01:45:51 | |
Situation. | 01:45:54 | |
It's hard for a building inspector to. | 01:45:57 | |
Verified that the. | 01:46:01 | |
Contractor has done what contract? | 01:46:03 | |
I mean. | 01:46:06 | |
I keep going back to Emily's. | 01:46:08 | |
Idea of where? | 01:46:10 | |
They can say, OK, this is the lumens of the lighting we put in. | 01:46:11 | |
But then later down the road they find out that that was not the case. | 01:46:17 | |
So that would go to code enforcement, right? So the code enforcement come back and. | 01:46:22 | |
Say, hey, you know, you said that you put these lights on, but you, you installed these lights, but in fact you installed | 01:46:27 | |
different ones that are brighter and now your neighbors are mad. | 01:46:32 | |
Yes, that could definitely be something I would definitely foresee happen is you can go back to the original approved set. | 01:46:38 | |
Verify that that was an approved fixture was to be installed. | 01:46:45 | |
And then coming back and saying that doesn't match up, that's definitely something at least. | 01:46:50 | |
The code enforcement situation. | 01:46:55 | |
Right. Could you explain the hearing officer concerning movies? | 01:46:58 | |
Well, what I was talking about is if you. | 01:47:01 | |
You adopt A certain standard. | 01:47:05 | |
For the lighting in the city. | 01:47:08 | |
You know the staff approves it. | 01:47:10 | |
Then a neighbor comes back and says you should not have approved that it violates your standard. | 01:47:12 | |
That ends up going through an enforcement process that involves. | 01:47:17 | |
City hiring and administrative hearing officer. | 01:47:21 | |
To hear the dispute essentially between the parties with the city. | 01:47:25 | |
Presenting information. | 01:47:28 | |
Making a decision and there's a cost to the city. | 01:47:30 | |
In that we pay the hearing officer. | 01:47:33 | |
Their staff time involved. | 01:47:35 | |
Sometimes you have somebody from our office presenting on behalf of staff this particular area issue. | 01:47:38 | |
It there is a cost to the city in that whole process, I wasn't thinking of them approving the plan so much as saying this is the | 01:47:43 | |
light trespass standard. | 01:47:48 | |
That you need to comply with. | 01:47:52 | |
And then and then whether we approve the plan or we hand out a standard and we haven't adopted standard in the city, I think you | 01:47:54 | |
end up in a hearing is a position with that either way. | 01:47:59 | |
Not something where. | 01:48:08 | |
Officer Gallop goes out with his light meter, measures that he said no, sorry you didn't, this doesn't. | 01:48:10 | |
Sure, sure, we get that. But then we still probably end up in an enforcement process. | 01:48:14 | |
Either way, whether it's from a third party, property owner or neighbor. | 01:48:18 | |
Or the city enforcing the code. Whatever it may be, we probably end up in enforcement process others. | 01:48:21 | |
Yeah. Well, what's the cost of that? | 01:48:27 | |
Prepared to 1500 bucks per. | 01:48:28 | |
Right, by putting these standards. | 01:48:32 | |
Yeah, you don't get as many that end up in front of you. | 01:48:35 | |
If I could if I can remedy the problem by changing out. | 01:48:38 | |
$150.00 fixture. | 01:48:42 | |
Or reducing the wattage or something, right? | 01:48:45 | |
The practical way you're going to see these things though, is I think is. | 01:48:49 | |
Three or four or five years after build. | 01:48:53 | |
Somebody changes the landscaping in their backyard and they want to light it. | 01:48:55 | |
In some particular way and then they put in a different fixture to light and then. | 01:48:59 | |
Hearing that enforcement process. | 01:49:04 | |
And it's just not a. | 01:49:07 | |
To be honest with you, it's not an intuitive thing necessarily most property owners to think. | 01:49:08 | |
So I think the lighting in my backyard. | 01:49:13 | |
Got to comply with some code that was present at the time I built my house. | 01:49:17 | |
But it does appear to their name. | 01:49:21 | |
I wonder if this is an issue. Those standards can be. | 01:49:24 | |
Simplified greatly if you want to just. | 01:49:28 | |
Take them as a case by case basis. So you have. | 01:49:32 | |
Outdoor lighting poles. | 01:49:35 | |
Like your support court lighting, they don't exceed a maximum bite and after you feel cut off. | 01:49:37 | |
There's a diagram in there that can be provided. Then this is what we're really looking for. | 01:49:41 | |
We're going to be looking for the warmth of the light, the Kelvin scale. | 01:49:46 | |
So that can be somewhat fairly easily verified. | 01:49:51 | |
Anything would be on the slot, like on the Gable ends where softer lights are installed. | 01:49:55 | |
If you wanted to have a standard, he says, your maximum saw the light. | 01:50:00 | |
Height is. | 01:50:03 | |
20 feet is the Max height of accessory buildings. | 01:50:06 | |
And generally the maximum height of a Gable and you move down that comes around. | 01:50:09 | |
The roof in the home. | 01:50:14 | |
They don't have lights above 20 feet |