Live stream not working in Chrome or Edge? Click Here
No Bookmarks Exist.
Transcript
This is a work session to order. 00:00:00
On January 9th. 00:00:02
Welcome everybody. 00:00:06
Umm. 00:00:10
You weren't? Yeah. 00:00:12
Real quick, We do have a quick. 00:00:21
Well, uh. 00:00:24
We hope it's a quick closed session. We'll see. 00:00:25
And before we move to Item 2 on the agenda, we're just going to do a quick. 00:00:28
The non disclosure agreement or disclosure agreement. 00:00:33
Yes, Todd, yes. 00:00:36
Yeah, go ahead. 00:00:41
Last year, the state Legislature adopted the Department for disclosures for all elected officials. 00:00:42
And so your disclosure form is a little different than what you've seen in the past and it's different than what the staff will 00:00:48
sign this year. 00:00:51
Everything that you need to disclose on this form, one of the things you will see. 00:00:54
What the Legislature did. 00:01:01
It requires you to disclose your spouse's employment. 00:01:03
If there is any. 00:01:06
On the form. 00:01:08
Otherwise, I think it'll all be familiar to you. I don't think it's anything. 00:01:09
New or different? But you should be aware that these disclosures now get published with the state. 00:01:13
So and on their website. 00:01:21
Yeah. So they're easier to access I think than they were previously. 00:01:23
Neither good nor bad. It's just as well like on a website with and they can find them on the city website also. They've always 00:01:28
been able to do that. 00:01:32
It's not that big of a change. 00:01:36
But we just wanted to make you aware it's a new statutory requirement. 00:01:39
These will we need these. 00:01:41
Within the next few days because they have to be published with the state before the end of this month. 00:01:44
And that will be the drill now going forward. 00:01:50
Year, so is the previous employment, regardless of how long ago that month. 00:01:52
I would. 00:01:56
I would use your judgment. If it's 30 five years ago, I don't know that I'd worry about it. 00:01:59
This year's 5 1/2 years, I think it's been while you've been on the council. Yes, I would do it. Yep. 00:02:02
Employing the house by Yes, correct. 00:02:12
So as you go through this, if you don't, if you have more questions, you can ask to write tonight and if you don't finish filling 00:02:17
out I just. 00:02:20
If you want to scan it and send it to me or if you want to bring it in, I will come and get it from you since we're so late. 00:02:23
So. 00:02:28
But if you have any questions. 00:02:30
Thank you. Thanks, Todd. 00:02:34
Obviously. 00:02:36
Yes. 00:02:40
But it is a lot more in depth than. 00:02:41
It might take a little longer. 00:02:45
What? 00:02:50
The president of Todd Gottfried phone calls. 00:02:54
Groupie. 00:03:04
OK, all right. Well, I guess we are doing the City Hall thing. 00:03:06
Right. Hopefully like on January 5th or 6th or 7th of next year, sometime around there they start. 00:03:11
Anything important about that date there? Yes. 00:03:20
As excited as I am about this. 00:03:25
It's going to be interesting year or so, 14 months. 00:03:28
Yeah. 00:03:34
And so. 00:03:51
So. 00:04:02
What we wanted to bring to the Council's attention is primarily that. 00:04:03
Having worked through all the seismic upgrades and kind of the impact. 00:04:07
In what the building would be. 00:04:11
The primary thing that. 00:04:13
Is going to happen is that? 00:04:15
The main corridors. 00:04:16
Most likely be fully demolished and have to be rebuilt. 00:04:19
Because the seismic walls will be kind of being, we're going to be basically building. 00:04:22
Are upgrading these internal walls on both sides from from basement all the way to group? 00:04:27
And so. 00:04:34
Because of that. 00:04:35
You know, we were kind of. 00:04:37
Talking with the kind of administration team and what are the implications? Pictures. 00:04:38
OK, how do we then reconstruct the hallway in particular? 00:04:42
Which is kind of the public experience of this place. 00:04:46
And so there's the option to kind of. 00:04:49
Literally rebuild it passives. 00:04:51
Which is this kind of copper ceiling, but as we were going through the existing photos as well as the kind of documentation and 00:04:54
the original building. 00:04:57
So in the first page which you might have seen. 00:05:02
That's all of the original kind of actually drawings of the original building and lease site which started. 00:05:05
I mean the additions which. 00:05:11
Show the kind of corridor condition which was actually supposed to be. 00:05:12
A ^2 ceiling with kind of a kind of a cornice detail around. 00:05:17
And then when we looked at the photos of the hallway. 00:05:22
It was also kind of a square thing, so the kind of Dome shape was introduced by the architects in the addition that you guys did 00:05:26
when you converted a building from. 00:05:30
Elementary school to your kind of administrative office, so. 00:05:35
We were thinking, kind of our take was that if we're going to have to rebuild the entire hallway, we might bring back some of that 00:05:39
original character using both. 00:05:43
The inspirations from the original drawings, but. 00:05:48
If you go to. 00:05:51
The next page. 00:05:52
The next one. 00:05:55
So what we did is we developed some schemes where we were looking. 00:05:59
The irony is that all the original photos or the photos that were taken during the demolition didn't actually show. 00:06:03
The transition between. 00:06:09
Like how the school would have looked. 00:06:12
When it was built and then the addition for the school before it became converted so. 00:06:14
What we were hoping to do is then take a look at. 00:06:20
Similar buildings built around that time and kind of what type of kind of material quality and polling they would do. And so 00:06:22
that's kind of our decision making for how we are proposing some options to you. 00:06:28
So in the first option you'll see kind of weak development. See. 00:06:33
In the first option, what we're calling kind of a minimalist scheme is that. 00:06:37
We looked at buildings that were built kind of in that time around the 1920s and 30s. 00:06:41
And oftentimes what the floors would be would be some kind of monolithic teroxome. 00:06:45
It was really durable and then. 00:06:50
Would you get a cleaning right? 00:06:53
The drawings original drawings showed like a marble. 00:06:55
And obviously we thought cost wise we're not going to propose like marble floors. 00:06:58
But we felt like we wanted to do something that maybe upgrades and then also becomes actually a little bit more durable or easy to 00:07:05
clean than the floors that you have. So the high cleft, the bees original floors means that. 00:07:11
Honestly, when you're mopping or whatever dirt, it's honestly always going to get into those clefts and it's gonna really be hard 00:07:18
to feel like it's clean, clean. 00:07:22
And So what we have as our first option is, is. 00:07:25
Large format, it's a porcelain child that looks like a Toronto. So it's just going to be not the cost of Toronto, but again. 00:07:28
Going to give us a kind of really similar look. 00:07:34
And we're going to, we were proposing this one. It comes in a really large format of 24 by 24. 00:07:36
So that you could set it with a really tight grout joint and just becomes kind of monolithic. 00:07:42
Through the hallway. 00:07:47
And so we did develop some imagery using this tile so you can see what that might look like. 00:07:48
We called us a minimalist scheme because. 00:07:54
We do want to keep the molding which we feel is actually the most kind of true to the character of the original building and what 00:07:56
which kind of recreated. 00:08:00
And then what we would do is that. 00:08:04
We're coordinating with the exhibit design that was kind of coming through. And so we feel like if we went with a minimalist team 00:08:08
where the floor isn't necessarily really dramatic or. 00:08:12
Colorful. Then the new lighting for the kind of hall displays that will be going up all along the corridor would then become the 00:08:16
thing that becomes the attention. 00:08:20
And so that's kind of that first option that we were looking at. 00:08:25
Can we go next? 00:08:29
The stage. So that's the view that you can see here. 00:08:31
Enlarged and then the next page. 00:08:35
So the scheme for the. 00:08:40
Offices and all of the kind of spaces outside of the border. 00:08:44
Will most likely get incorporating at minimum. There's some more updates in the other spaces furnishings. 00:08:49
That we'll be working through, but primarily. 00:08:55
Into the carpet is going to be replaced everywhere. 00:08:57
And So what we're proposing is in this option is you can see the carpet titles there. 00:09:00
Is an kind of a plank tile that would be laid down. 00:09:05
So that. 00:09:09
Since these are regional targets, this is like a custom design. 00:09:11
Which actually we wanted to play off the green. We think that's kind of a fun. 00:09:15
And a way to continue kind of reinforce that some of that kind of. 00:09:19
The identity that had been built into the logo and everything for Holiday. 00:09:24
But what we're doing is we're proposing something that's maybe a little kind of a slightly more modern pattern, and then because 00:09:28
it's a plank. 00:09:31
If in the future. 00:09:35
The floor gets kind of a little section gets. 00:09:37
Nickel rune It can be replaced much easier than these current carpets, which is. 00:09:40
Or for broadband that if things have been problem that you would have to replace the entire car. 00:09:44
So we're hoping these things help on kind of a maintenance standpoint for the future. 00:09:49
And so this one is a linear thing. It's a linear pattern that could be laid in a plane. 00:09:53
It has a little bit hints of green, but overall it's a really consistent kind of distribution. So once it lays down together, it 00:09:58
starts to, we feel read kind of. 00:10:02
Neutral. 00:10:06
So the next image. 00:10:08
The other option we were looking at is. 00:10:12
While we feel like minimalism is not a bad way to go, we do feel that maybe a little bit of the character of the hallway got lost 00:10:15
in like a completely monolithic floor. 00:10:20
And So what we then look at is other ways in which buildings of the time period would deal with hallways, particularly a really 00:10:25
long corridor. 00:10:29
And oftentimes what you'd see is this kind of bordering effect where the outside perimeter would have a darker color and then 00:10:33
every so often they would be just kind of broad section. 00:10:38
And so that broad section would usually relate to things down the portal and like entrances to certain hallways of buildings or 00:10:42
rooms, right? 00:10:46
And so you understand that the existing corridor has these pilasters upgrade these little spaces. 00:10:50
It's basically are subtly indicating when you actually. 00:10:56
Entered a place where there should be. 00:11:00
A room of importance to the writers of Lack. 00:11:02
And So what we wanted to do is maybe take that forward as an option and so. 00:11:05
In this one, what we're doing is we're doing the border tile. 00:11:10
That would be dark and then in the middle. 00:11:13
We're looking at it. 00:11:15
A tile that looks like a marble. 00:11:17
As a kind of callback to, like I said, the original idea that there should have been marble floors. 00:11:20
To the next page. 00:11:24
And so Miss Marvel would then be laid in a diamond, and then you can see this kind of darker greater. 00:11:27
And so as you can see then you can highlight when there becomes. 00:11:32
Kind of a space adjacent. 00:11:37
That would be a place where people might be going or headed to. 00:11:39
And so that's the second option that you see over there. 00:11:42
Again, we're not trying to like overwhelmingly with pattern and style, but. 00:11:46
In the kind of subtle gestures of changing it up, it does provide a little bit more kind of character. 00:11:51
And historic kind of quality that. 00:11:56
That kind of would have probably not be done in the building of this. 00:11:59
Aid at that temperature. 00:12:02
And then the. 00:12:06
Sorry, scroll back so. 00:12:08
We have a different Scroll down 1. 00:12:10
Don't go down 1. Yep. 00:12:14
There we go. So we do have one option, a slightly different option for carpet for the rooms. 00:12:16
So instead of having something that's linear, which maybe feels a little bit. 00:12:22
To modern we did say that potentially we want to. 00:12:28
Propose something that has a little bit of more pattern to it. 00:12:30
Pattern is always great, mainly because it does hide things really well. 00:12:35
This is. 00:12:38
Biggest standard of. 00:12:40
Big hotels. Conference rooms. 00:12:41
Big pattern that should hide things, right? 00:12:43
So again, we're always going to propose, kind of. 00:12:45
Tile system. So what tiles could be replaced? 00:12:48
But we're showing kind of two options here. 00:12:51
Which have a little bit more capacity to them. 00:12:55
And again, when they actually *** **** when they *** **** together, we don't think the pattern is super distracting. We're not 00:12:57
looking for a lot of high contrast per se. 00:13:02
But we thought that maybe it. 00:13:06
Feels a little bit more interesting or lively than the linear flow which. 00:13:09
Might start to feel a little bit. 00:13:13
Trap in all your in all your public spaces. 00:13:16
So that's kind of this kind of other option that we're proposing. 00:13:20
And then if you scroll to the next page, the. 00:13:25
Oh sorry, if you Scroll down to the bottom. 00:13:31
On each of these options. 00:13:34
Are showing just in the. 00:13:37
We're creating a basement works, kind of. We called a work lounge. 00:13:40
For the staff, that's where. 00:13:45
There would be both the new kitchen area as well as just some casual meeting places. 00:13:49
For the basement where we are proposing that that new space use kind of an LB. 00:13:53
A resilient title. 00:13:59
And what we were doing is for that room, we felt particularly because it was supposed to feel a little bit like. 00:14:00
Not only just a kind of a workplace, but an actual place for. 00:14:05
Staff to actually meet and congregate and do some team meetings or some other casual things. 00:14:09
We wanted to make it a little more lively and fun. 00:14:14
And So what we're proposing is that we're proposing a palette of kind of three colors for the OEP. 00:14:16
We use it to kind of start to kind of subtly designate spaces within a larger space. 00:14:22
So then in this one we're calling it like a. 00:14:27
For carpet is that it needs a kind of more casual sitting area. 00:14:31
There's more station than the kitchenette. 00:14:34
And then on the backs, but on the back we're proposing kind of Wallpapers. 1 is a little bit more subtle. 00:14:37
And if you go up? 00:14:43
So the a version. 00:14:45
This one becomes a little bit more bold in the kind of graphic that we're choosing for the wallpaper. 00:14:52
We found this one. This isn't off the shelf. That has kind of a tree motif. 00:14:57
Which we were calling back to the leaf motif. 00:15:01
That healthy. 00:15:04
That's kind of the kind of two options we kind of put together for the staff to kind of think about. 00:15:06
And they wanted to present it to you. 00:15:11
City Council so that we could get some of your thoughts and thinking. 00:15:13
I mean, there's. 00:15:18
Are there specific? 00:15:21
Are there specific? 00:15:23
Decisions you'd like us to make here, like. Yeah, I think the big one is the. 00:15:26
The road versus the mountain. Clifford feeling. 00:15:31
Maybe we can go back. 00:15:35
OK. So yeah, up here, sorry. 00:15:40
Scroll down. 00:15:43
So the big thing about? 00:15:48
What we're saying is, is that when we don't. 00:15:50
We rebuild the arch, right? 00:15:52
We can raise your feelings and have them flat. 00:15:55
What we are doing is adding like a copper detail down where we would then use kind of. 00:15:57
Casework at the top, including. 00:16:04
At the top since then, reinforce those spaces below, but we wanted to make sure that the Council felt. 00:16:08
That would be OK because. 00:16:13
You know, obviously that's a big change from what? 00:16:15
Was installed here, this kind of stone ceiling all going all the way down. So that's one big architectural change and like I said. 00:16:18
If the Council thought. 00:16:24
That quality was something important. We could recreate it. But like we said. 00:16:26
We will have to devil all the ceilings that are in the entire corridor to do the. 00:16:30
Structural work. So that was the big thing that. 00:16:34
We wanted to get your feedback on if you felt that this kind of Dome seemed going down was important enough that you wanted to 00:16:37
regulate or if you're open to kind of moving into a different direction. 00:16:41
Is there a cost difference do you think or is it? 00:16:48
They're actually rebuilding the. 00:16:51
The Half Dome ceiling will probably be more costly because it's all over frames. 00:16:54
This one would be more consistent with the horses original historical period of the building. 00:17:04
Would you? Would that influence? Would you? 00:17:14
So I think. 00:17:18
Either the flooring could go like either before it could work with either scenes. 00:17:19
Primarily, the flooring was about. 00:17:24
Whether we thought that this kind of monochromatic scheme became a little bit. 00:17:27
To black, you might say. 00:17:32
And if there was a little bit more interest in bringing back the idea of the bordering? 00:17:35
Starts to suddenly indicate where there are spaces, where there's probably rooms or places. 00:17:39
So both of these renderings do show flat ceiling. 00:17:45
So I've never noticed. 00:17:52
Like I said, it's like we. 00:17:56
We, we were like, you know it, the ceilings all going to go away. There is a cost to be creating the Half Dome. That's why we were 00:18:05
saying that potentially. 00:18:09
Also, architecturally, it kind of matches the original character of the building we just noticed, but it was a big change. 00:18:13
So we wanted to bring up the. 00:18:18
Looking cancer protection? 00:18:20
That's great. 00:18:22
But to your question on the flooring. 00:18:24
I think that. 00:18:29
The one seemed really plain to me. Yeah, it was very plain. 00:18:30
I like the one you're showing. 00:18:34
Agreed. 00:18:37
Do that. 00:18:38
With a border. 00:18:41
We could we could find this monochromatic, it would just be depending on what order we would look at and so. 00:18:43
We could do a border. I guess the one thing is is that. 00:18:49
What we're using that visually helps is that there's contrast. 00:18:52
And the idea of monochromatic, even though you do a tile where you could see the subtle change. 00:18:56
You wouldn't necessarily. 00:19:00
Get as clear of a like a change of that pattern. So if you were going monochromatic, we would just say then you just lay the title 00:19:03
all the way because it's also from a cost standpoint, if you're going to use the same tile but just change your patterning, then 00:19:08
the labor increases substantially for let's say, cutting. 00:19:13
But if you actually are interested in the board, then you can find that out. 00:19:19
So we're doing the darker bordering, that's a tile, it is tile, that's the monochrome. And then these are the tiles for. 00:19:24
Our tiles and this would be the field type which would be. 00:19:33
That's great. Like this one's a little bit flower. 00:19:37
My child is more marble. They're not slippery, are they? Or no? 00:19:39
OK, maybe think about is on the border. Have it more of a. 00:19:45
Holiday brand color greenish. 00:19:48
We would have. 00:19:51
Always say the biggest challenge to the green is not. 00:19:55
A readily available floor color right now, so green. 00:19:59
So even that green marble that was abused, which was very popular when. 00:20:03
That color was very popular at that time. You could find a lot of options. I have scoured and we found one greenish. 00:20:07
Item, now that's that, yeah. 00:20:15
Great read. And so when we showed it to the administrative staff, they were like, well. 00:20:21
We like the idea, but the green wasn't like the right green. 00:20:25
And so unless you were, let's say. 00:20:29
And again, it doesn't make sense if let's say do a custom. 00:20:31
Tile, right? And so that's why we did scour quite a bit of, but we couldn't find there isn't a lot of green floor tiles. 00:20:35
Make a statement that would like. 00:20:45
Place it in this time that it would get outdated. 00:20:47
Right. 00:20:51
Well, and this is. 00:20:53
I'm assuming this is. 00:20:55
Been boiled down through because I've seen you guys have it working. 00:20:56
Yeah. So we presented like several other options. What we're trying to do is boil it down to a couple that. 00:21:00
You know, the team felt that, you know. 00:21:06
Met kind of the bigger ideas that they were thinking about but we wanted. 00:21:09
Big key ideas or for the Commission here. 00:21:12
Because particularly the public experiences. 00:21:16
Is going to change a bit. 00:21:19
Whenever we look back. 00:21:21
So we wanted to see if there were any concerns. 00:21:23
In the Council about the. 00:21:26
I'm also interested in knowing. 00:21:29
In the. 00:21:32
We've had council members. 00:21:34
At a particular interest in the site. 00:21:36
And so they transacted with our administrative scale. 00:21:38
City Park. 00:21:46
I don't know if anyone on the council has a similar interest. 00:21:49
Fire District 1 representative. 00:21:55
I I. 00:21:59
Include the Council. 00:22:08
They will continue to bring back. 00:22:09
This place. 00:22:15
And I mean, it's like we're happy to engage you as to the level you want. There were staff in the past. I worked a little bit. 00:22:18
Originally with the original Council president, who was very interested when we did. 00:22:26
Our proposal for the formative. 00:22:30
And again, they wanted to. They wanted to be a part of. 00:22:32
Every design meeting. 00:22:35
And that's why we wanted to understand the level of interest the current council has in terms of some of this decision. 00:22:36
One comment or question I assume. 00:22:49
A lot of these. 00:22:52
Rooms won't be changed that much except from the. 00:22:54
The wood finish is my only question, where it's one that ends, and I don't know that it's as timeless as I wish that it was, you 00:22:56
know? 00:22:58
And so this is one of the things is honestly what we're doing is we're. 00:23:02
Trying as a cost measure we're actually trying to keep. 00:23:06
The current wood color step and then use everything else we're doing to kind of modernize it. 00:23:09
So one of the first things we're doing is as we've transitioned to a palette. 00:23:15
That polls, we would say a little bit more kind of Gray and neutral. 00:23:19
And so we're also proposing that the walls will become like a crisper white. This is really muddled. 00:23:24
And so in doing those things, we're hoping that. 00:23:32
It actually will tone down the kind of. 00:23:35
Quality of the wood stain so we can keep a lot of it in locations, particularly all the doors on. 00:23:38
You know, it goes everywhere. 00:23:43
Right. And still have to touch windows and other rooms that aren't getting a full refresh. You know that all can stay and then 00:23:44
we're not going to match. So that's why we've been trying to choose in terms of thinking about lighting, color and pattern as a 00:23:49
way to update. 00:23:54
So that when these do come back, it does feel current. 00:23:59
But we can actually use the color of that blood as a basis. 00:24:01
I love that, thanks for being conscious. 00:24:05
Because otherwise. 00:24:09
Right. That would need to either be stripped and be seen or actually just torn out. I don't think that's bad. I see what you're 00:24:11
saying. You can change. 00:24:15
Everything around it actually makes the wood scene. 00:24:20
Like it might be. 00:24:24
Appear to be new even though it's not yeah and I think that's I mean that's always kind of even when we do like, you know I we do 00:24:25
a ton of renovations of both. 00:24:29
And, you know, commercial spaces and residential spaces, but that's usually the trick. 00:24:34
Is you can like. The first thing is if you identify what. 00:24:38
Maybe the really costly thing and you may want to work with. 00:24:42
But depending on how you work around it, we feel strongly that we can. 00:24:45
Make it feel updated. 00:24:48
Without having to do everything there. 00:24:49
Cool. 00:24:53
It sounds like we're on the right track. 00:24:56
Do we need anything on the What about the carpet? Yeah. 00:24:58
Showing you kind of where you are if you had strong opinion. 00:25:02
To your comment about the terrazzo look. 00:25:07
This specific tile does come in different colorways, so we could pair this if we don't. 00:25:10
We like this kind of Toronto. We look over the Marvel look. 00:25:15
We could pair this with a darker. 00:25:19
Or lighter tone and be able to create the same border effect but using a different texture. 00:25:21
So but. 00:25:26
OK. 00:25:28
I think on the carpet side we just wanted to know if there was any strong. 00:25:30
Otherwise we can just work with that. 00:25:38
But I, like I said, conceptually, the big idea is we do like the idea of. 00:25:40
The subtlety of the heat. 00:25:44
Yeah. 00:25:46
But what we're trying to do is maybe tone back. 00:25:47
Like the overwhelming green? 00:25:51
And then make it more like. 00:25:53
Yeah, the green could be taken too far as well. Yeah. 00:25:57
The middle one. 00:26:01
And it's not harsh. 00:26:09
It's pretty, yeah. It's. 00:26:11
Yeah. 00:26:13
Maybe you can pass around the. 00:26:26
Other floor sample? Sure. 00:26:28
The Dom Draper Rec Room. 00:26:31
Just the one that's a little. 00:26:56
I think we got this standby, so it's actually 5 to 6 inch. 00:26:59
So yeah, it's making the fashion statement. 00:27:14
In other words. 00:27:17
Better. 00:27:19
I mean, one screamed up for whiskey. 00:27:24
So I do like the other one. 00:27:28
Felt different. 00:27:33
Yeah. 00:27:36
This is just concepts too. We can get more how those spaces can be laid out and we can have those discussions. This is just. 00:27:39
Yeah. So what we, what we will be doing working with the administrative team is. 00:27:47
For these rooms, the actual furniture. 00:27:52
We're going to be working with kind of. 00:27:54
A kind of just. 00:27:57
A furniture supplier to help us give us options for how like. 00:27:59
We're looking for creating a commercial grade furniture that can withstand kind of the wear and tear. So we'll be working with 00:28:03
them for particularly options in the administrative wings in terms of updating the desks and those types of things. 00:28:09
For a space like that. 00:28:14
That will give us some ideas of options, but primarily we're going to. 00:28:16
Ask them for ideas about how we can make it flexible. 00:28:20
Like I said, that one downstairs kind of lounge space, the staff lounge, we're calling it. 00:28:22
The idea had been because this one is so small, the entire staff can't meet together in a place that doesn't necessarily always 00:28:27
feel like we're in a conference. 00:28:32
It's like, maybe it'd be nice if you're doing like a lunch session or something like that. It's a little bit more casual. 00:28:36
But also if people wanted to get out of their office and work somewhere. 00:28:41
Just with their laptop were a little bit that could be the place or even if they want to and you're going to get into this later. 00:28:45
That was I think my point is. 00:28:49
Yeah, when we start getting into these individual spaces, we'll be. 00:28:54
Engaging our employees and say how do we. 00:28:58
How do we set these spaces up so that there is? 00:29:01
Functional. 00:29:05
As they can possibly be if we're going to invest this money like. 00:29:06
Because I know in here, when I walk in, I always feel bad when somebody's. 00:29:09
Eating their lunch and then I interrupt them and. 00:29:12
So there will be places to where somebody wants to eat their lunch in private, right? They can do that. 00:29:16
Yeah. So that's the stuff that. 00:29:21
We're working with, yeah, that's down the road, yeah. Yeah, we have engaged our staff. 00:29:22
In the sport. 00:29:28
I think there will be more conversations. 00:29:31
And some of these choices that were avoided. 00:29:33
The cost, the estimates that we're going to come back to you and so that's. 00:29:36
Piece of the reason why we need to have some of these conversations up. 00:29:40
So going down the road now. 00:29:44
We can just expect every. 00:29:47
So often to have. 00:29:50
Have them come back and say, OK, we need to revision thought, hey DC and Vena and eventually we'll have. 00:29:52
The full layout of what we need to bid out for everything. 00:29:59
Yeah, I mean, right now we're. 00:30:01
For the most part, this is one of the biggest. 00:30:03
I think then we're moving into the furniture discussion. That's the next level. 00:30:06
And the finalization of. 00:30:10
An appendage like the mechanical break. 00:30:12
So we hope that, you know, within the next couple of months we'd be, we'd be. 00:30:15
Creating like a more final package that would be comprehensive. 00:30:20
And then that would be the that would go in for the. 00:30:24
Process and then we can say. 00:30:29
Right now we. 00:30:31
Feel pretty good that that that there has been huge changes that have like jumped your scope from what we did originally, but. 00:30:32
Again, we want to get that all kind of tight. 00:30:38
With 100% is out of the full structural. 00:30:41
Package that. That's the big thing that's driving how much we're going to have to do for the certain outbreak study. 00:30:44
OK, signing. 00:30:53
Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. 00:30:54
Thanks for coming. 00:30:57
Thanks staff for working on this. I see you guys. 00:31:00
Going over was asking them like. 00:31:03
I'm right? 00:31:14
Yeah, they're just, I think they're just out in the hall. 00:31:17
Did you want to interrupt? Oh, you're good. 00:31:24
Ethan and I are going to take to head to the table if that's OK. Ethan is Director of Research at Vice Analytics, so he is my. 00:31:28
Right hand for holiday. 00:31:35
I want to we'll just go sort of page by page here. A lot of this is going to be really familiar. 00:31:42
So beginning of the survey here, we don't have a lot of changes. We have our warm up questions for residents. 00:31:50
Overall quality of life rating, right direction, wrong direction, and general elected approval ratings. 00:31:55
So we'll be tracking those overtime as well as the. 00:32:02
How holiday today compares to five years ago? 00:32:06
We've made a couple changes to the open-ended questions this year so we still have what you like most about winning holiday. 00:32:15
But we added a question to try and get at sort of what values or things residents point to that make holiday unique or distinct 00:32:22
from other communities along the Los Angeles front. 00:32:28
So that question has been added here. 00:32:34
And then we still have our top issue question which thinking about the next three to five years, both of us press significant 00:32:36
facing in the city. 00:32:40
And overall likelihood to recommend the city to others as a place to live. 00:32:44
We have our reading through Test Dollar and our general sentiments about Holiday to what extent I disagree or disagree. 00:32:53
About some of these. 00:33:01
Attributes of the community. 00:33:02
Managing city services, whether the city have businesses they're looking for, growing and developing the positive way. 00:33:04
This next one, sorry, just a little bit there. We added this business type question. So if residents say that they to some extent 00:33:11
disagree. 00:33:16
That the city has all of the businesses or all the kinds of businesses they would like to have. 00:33:21
We wanted to give them some categories here. We know if we provide an open-ended question for this, we're going to get a lot of 00:33:26
Trader Joe's. 00:33:30
And we're looking to maybe direct the economic development question a little bit more. So we've provided some business categories 00:33:34
and still left that option for another. Please specify. I wouldn't be surprised if we still see an appearance there. 00:33:41
Now you can go ahead. I just told someone this last week, but it should be. 00:33:49
They won't be able to get $2.00 check. 00:33:52
Performs in terms of sidewalk maintenance, St. lighting, city code enforcement, works open spaces, community events. 00:34:00
Cetera we're looking at. 00:34:20
Water conservation efforts as well, so. 00:34:23
Drilling down on some of these things to see if residents attitudes have changed since the city undertook some of the capital 00:34:26
projects for holiday time. 00:34:30
Services provided by a contractor agency for the familiar list here. No real changes. Yes please. 00:34:36
Yes. Is there going to be something for each of those or is that? 00:34:46
Well, we did it specifically for code enforcement because that was the one in the last iteration of this survey that received. 00:34:50
The lowest rating overall and we wanted to be able to parse whether residents are frustrated by too much code enforcement or not 00:34:56
enough code enforcement and and what direction that might be cutting. So we added it specifically for that this year. 00:35:04
They want coordinates more in their neighborhood. 00:35:13
City services contracted with another agency and then just general city services experience if there's anything else folks would 00:35:28
like to tell us about their students this day. 00:35:32
And we've moved the budget allocation question up in the survey so that it immediately follows those city service ratings this 00:35:37
year. 00:35:41
Partly because we've introduced some new topics into the survey that we want to get residents opinions on. 00:35:45
So this just seems to flow a little bit better, but hopefully this also means that. 00:35:50
Residents are thinking about their experiences with city services. 00:35:56
They're thinking specifically about how they would like to see. 00:35:59
Their funds allocated if we're looking to improve some of those experiences. 00:36:04
Some neighborhood sentiments here. So generally we're looking at sort of the look and feel of neighborhoods. 00:36:13
In holiday and then we've added a couple questions here from what we had in the past was a full battery that examined residents 00:36:21
attitudes towards traffic and roads in the city both. 00:36:27
Major thoroughfares and the streets and roads in their neighborhood. 00:36:33
We have instead tapped those onto this neighborhood sentiments question. 00:36:37
Looking at. 00:36:42
Maintenance in roads in their neighborhood and the city as a whole, again, sort of following up on some of those capital. 00:36:43
We have our streetlights, a number or amount and quality questions here. So are there enough, too many or? 00:36:52
Too not enough to many or the red. 00:37:02
And then in terms of quality, are they too bright, not bright enough or adequate? 00:37:04
Similar set of questions for holiday or for home accent lighting. 00:37:10
So this has. 00:37:16
Come up a little bit and we're trying to address it delicately. You don't want to create an issue where there isn't one, but we do 00:37:18
want to understand the extent to which residents broadly in the city feel strongly about this. 00:37:24
We have a section here that delves into residence transit use, so current use of public transit in or around holiday. 00:37:36
Overall frequency. 00:37:45
And then? 00:37:47
A set of potential barriers to entry. So what things might be keeping residents from using transit, or using transit more 00:37:48
frequently? 00:37:52
We had a short list here and then included that other. Please specify. Certainly open to additional. 00:37:57
Response options. 00:38:04
I think this covered most of our bases. If we're thinking about bus systems not having routes where residents like to go, they're 00:38:06
unfamiliar or uncomfortable. 00:38:11
Just preference of another mode of transportation. 00:38:16
Or there's no stop that is convenient to their home, so difficulty accessing transit Commission. 00:38:19
And then potential ways to overcome those barriers to entry. So which if any of these? 00:38:28
Solutions might encourage them to use transit or use transit more. More bus stops a bus stop within walking distance of their. 00:38:34
Improvements to bus stops or buses. More information, schedules, More frequent bus service. 00:38:42
New direct routes so. 00:38:47
For example, a service to the university. 00:38:50
Access to additional types of transit, whether that's streetcar. 00:38:55
In the city and then again that other. Please specify option and none of the above option there as well. 00:38:59
The reality is we're having edition. 00:39:06
A share of residence. I won't speculate too much on what that share looks like, but. 00:39:08
Who for whom? We can't overcome those barriers to entry so. 00:39:12
The news and communications section here should be pretty familiar overall how residents are currently receiving information from 00:39:17
the city and how they would prefer to receive most of their information from the city. 00:39:24
Identifying some potential areas for further emphasis. 00:39:30
And then a sense of the cadence of communications as well, so whether residents are happy with the level of communication they 00:39:35
receive or if they would prefer to receive. 00:39:40
More or less information from the city. 00:39:45
And then we've added this question about interest in a separate city newsletter outside the Holiday Journal, So. 00:39:49
We know that residents are. 00:39:57
Quite attached to the Journal, but we're interested to see how much attention they're paying to the city's piece of the Journal. 00:39:59
If that is more. 00:40:06
Social or? 00:40:09
Fun news source, or if it is something where they're turning to that source for city information. 00:40:11
And if so, is that something that residents would be interested in the city providing separately? 00:40:16
And if so, on what cadence? So monthly, every two months, one supporter price year or once year? 00:40:23
We have our contact questions here, so if residents have contacted the city office in the past years. 00:40:32
Were they generally satisfied with the satisfied and if they have any comments they would like to share about that? 00:40:38
An open-ended response option there as well. 00:40:44
We have a housing section here that is. 00:40:50
Probably somewhat familiar. I think we asked this question. 00:40:53
About the types of housing that are needed in holiday overall in the past. 00:40:57
So various sort of missing middle housing options. 00:41:03
And then? 00:41:08
A follow up question which is which features would fit well? 00:41:09
Into residence specific area of the city. So first looking at what does the city need writ large and then residents be willing to 00:41:13
have in their own vendor. 00:41:18
And then the flip side of that. 00:41:29
Would residents like to see some of those things in the city generally, but maybe not in their own backyards so. 00:41:32
Trying to get both sides of the coin here. Get residents to really tell us what their priorities for the city as a whole are. 00:41:39
Preference the question the legislature is holding a gun to your head. 00:41:45
Yeah. 00:41:51
You had to choose right? Looking at this set of questions here. 00:41:53
The scroll up just a bit, so we're posting a set of questions. 00:41:58
About Adu's and. 00:42:03
Sort of potential development solutions. 00:42:06
Mixed-use developments. 00:42:10
Whether the housing that is introduced to the city. 00:42:14
In an effort to respond to the Legislature's requirements. 00:42:18
Would be more. 00:42:23
Palatable or for us to be more open to it if it sort of fits the look and feel of existing housing and holiday. 00:42:25
Is it supporting high density housing, providing more options for future residents? 00:42:33
Are we encouraging more moderate income housing for residents making less than $80,000 a year? 00:42:39
Would residents be interested in seeing Pacific allocating funding? 00:42:45
To rehabilitation. 00:42:49
So that there are more opportunities for multi company. 00:42:51
For some properties that pay. 00:42:55
And could be low hanging fruit there. 00:42:58
So we have. 00:43:01
A variety of options here and things that we'll ask residents just their general sentiments about. 00:43:03
See. See if there's. 00:43:09
One Ave. that is especially appealing for residents as we're speaking. 00:43:11
What levers to pull? 00:43:16
We've added this public health section this year, so we're starting with asking a set of questions about. 00:43:25
To what extent? 00:43:31
Their residents are broadly concerned about some public health issues. 00:43:34
Or are they? 00:43:39
Are they of concern to residents and their neighbors? 00:43:40
Typically we wouldn't ask a question that is. 00:43:44
A little bit speculative in the direction of, you know, what do you think your neighbors think? 00:43:47
But when it comes to public health, we need to be able to give residents some sense of anonymity. 00:43:52
So if residents are. 00:43:57
Reporting on what they see as a community wide issue rather than just a. 00:44:00
Personal in their household issue. 00:44:04
We're hopeful, and this is something that we see in social science a lot, just providing a little bit of that. 00:44:07
Social cover. 00:44:12
Tends to give us more. 00:44:14
Honest answers. 00:44:16
And then we do ask a follow-up question after asking about. 00:44:19
Some of these public health issues broadly, you know. 00:44:24
To what extent, if at all, these concerns have had an impact on? 00:44:27
Residents and members of their house. 00:44:31
Some Emergency Management questions are new this year as well. 00:44:37
So overall we're looking at. 00:44:41
Residents perceptions of how well prepared various organizations or groups are in the event of a natural disaster or emergency, 00:44:43
including their own household. So we want to start close to home, then sort of branch out from there. 00:44:50
To get residents sense of. 00:44:57
Overall preparedness. 00:44:59
Scroll down. I'm getting a little bit more specific. We're asking residents what types of preparations they have in place in the 00:45:02
event of emergency. 00:45:06
One of the things. 00:45:12
That we. 00:45:13
I can sort of toyed with here. 00:45:15
Is the shift between having enough food and water for three days? 00:45:17
Versus having enough food and water for a week or more when we're thinking about the reality of emergency response times. 00:45:24
And when aid could arrive in the event of a severe emergency. 00:45:30
Is that going to change the way residents are thinking about their own emergency preparedness? Is that going to change the way the 00:45:35
city should be discussing emergency preparedness with residents? 00:45:40
So that's what those options, 2 through 5 are there. And then there's some of these other things, designated meeting places, 00:45:45
copies of important documents, types of insurance. 00:45:50
That our insurance companies think we need. 00:45:56
Regardless of whether it makes sense in our neighborhood. 00:45:59
And then the next question here goes. 00:46:04
So I'm trying to see what we're trying to get at here. 00:46:08
Like what are we going to do with us? Are we using that as the future education tool regarding? 00:46:14
Fire insurance. Flood insurance, Earthquake insurance. 00:46:21
Why do we want that information? 00:46:27
Yeah. So I think the first step here is understanding what residents see as necessary and what they are prepared with so that we 00:46:29
can tailor the city's. 00:46:34
Approach and communications. 00:46:40
Educational programs about emergency preparedness to sort of address the gaps. 00:46:42
As we're thinking about. 00:46:48
Likely events in holiday. 00:46:49
Or less likely events, certainly, but. 00:46:52
Sort of understanding the broad. 00:46:55
Landscape there for emergency preparedness and. 00:46:57
Being able to then. 00:47:01
Develop a program that is addressing residents needs or lack of information. 00:47:03
So we can use it as a. 00:47:09
Way to focus where we're going to try to communicate and educate with our residents down the road. 00:47:13
Because I'm just looking ahead a little bit here to some of the questions and. 00:47:19
Part of what I think of my questions going to be is. 00:47:23
You know, it's a long survey and is it going to? 00:47:26
Maybe I'll wait till we get to the end, but I'm going to have that question. 00:47:31
How much of this information is really useful to us and. 00:47:35
Is it going to? 00:47:39
Discourage people from taking a survey when they see the length of it. 00:47:43
And I was going to get to. Is there any way you can? 00:47:47
Segment it so if somebody gives up after they get through. 00:47:49
Half or 2/3? 00:47:53
You've at least got. 00:47:55
The pieces they did. 00:47:57
So absolutely yes, we always keep partial responses included in the data. 00:47:58
Just so that we're not losing out on some of that information if residents did get fatigued at some point in the survey. 00:48:04
Mayor, you've anticipated my question to the group here. 00:48:11
Where should we prioritize our efforts in this case because we really. 00:48:16
Done our best to capture all of the sort of new or newly focused areas of. 00:48:21
Lines of questioning here. 00:48:30
So we are. 00:48:32
A bit longer than we would like to be. 00:48:34
If there are some things that we can deprioritize or if there are things that. 00:48:36
Maybe don't make sense to ask at this time we're. 00:48:41
Definitely looking for ways to. That's a real question I'd have when you start going through these text pages and then look at 00:48:46
this stuff. 00:48:50
Like what's your income? What are you, male or female? 00:48:54
What's your? 00:48:58
What? 00:49:01
Why do we need to know that? How's that going to apply? And if it doesn't, can we? Let's I say let's eliminate it if it's not. 00:49:02
Useful information as I'm trying to call this down to where people will. 00:49:09
Not be incentivized not to take it. 00:49:13
So those demographic questions unfortunately. 00:49:16
Place to be taken. 00:49:19
Because those are the ways that we ensure that we. 00:49:21
Representative sample of cities. 00:49:23
We want to make sure that we're balanced across age, across socioeconomic status. So demographically, those are some data points 00:49:25
that. 00:49:29
To the extent that we can get people to answer them, we need that data. 00:49:33
My point would be though, I mean from my standpoint, what I really care about is. 00:49:41
How do you feel about arose? How do you feel about our police? How do you know? How did that trending? And I don't particularly 00:49:46
care. 00:49:49
What gender you are, how much money you make if you're a resident. 00:49:52
That's what I care about. Info. 00:49:56
Just a little bit. 00:49:59
The danger? 00:50:01
Is if we don't gather that information, if we don't know? 00:50:03
What age our residents are or what income bracket they're in. 00:50:07
There could be a group that were systematically underrepresented. 00:50:11
I think their attitudes are significantly different in regards to police or roads or city services byways. 00:50:14
Sidewalks. 00:50:22
We want to know, Yeah, OK. But we've got a representative. OK. Yeah, All right. I'm just looking at it as we go through this and 00:50:23
trying to figure out a way to. 00:50:28
Steve, we could you know if. 00:50:34
If people are going to take it, great, but my first? 00:50:36
Impressions. It seems really long, yeah. And so this case. 00:50:39
So the survey as it stands now is probably around 18 minutes. And how long would you recommend ideally we're staying? 00:50:44
Around 15. 00:50:57
That would put us cutting. 00:50:59
You would be surprised how much residents want to talk about the city they live in though, so we can usually get away with 12 to 00:51:02
15 minutes for something that is. 00:51:06
Close to residents hearts and. 00:51:11
We have a lot of. 00:51:13
Of goodwill and civic duty to draw on for this type of research here. So we've had success with that in the past. 00:51:14
But adding. 00:51:21
All of these new lines of questioning. 00:51:23
Would present some difficulties, I think for overall completion rates, so. 00:51:25
Looking for some areas where we would need to trim back. We're probably looking at cutting a series of five to six questions 00:51:31
ideally. The clubs and groups section I think is. 00:51:36
Helpful, but not that. 00:51:42
Yeah, well, I was reading through that, my first question. 00:51:43
Was why do they need this and now second? 00:51:47
Was this moving? Feels a little bit invasive. 00:51:51
OK, I think it probably. 00:51:54
Came from the. Yeah, I can see right, Yeah. 00:51:58
Right, but I have the same. 00:52:05
Reaction not about the invasiveness. So Mike is just. 00:52:08
It would be nice to know, but I'm not sure it's poor. 00:52:11
If we need to trim it that second area, yeah. 00:52:15
Can I ask the question in advice to? 00:52:19
The demographics, and obviously I came in late so you probably already heard this, but. 00:52:22
Do you have like maybe just a quick explanation on why we need the demographics? I feel like if we just tell them like we need a 00:52:26
representative sample. 00:52:30
I'd like that to. 00:52:35
You know, appease some of that part of people, you know, being nervous about sharing information and the government still either 00:52:36
like, yes, that's a great idea. Yeah. Before we dive into any of those demographic questions, we do have a preface that says. 00:52:44
We have a few remaining questions for you to ensure that we have a representative sample of Holiday City residents. 00:52:51
Remember that your responses will be kept strictly confidential. These are for statistical purposes only, OK? 00:52:57
So some of these sections too like. 00:53:04
I feel like we're asking. 00:53:07
I feel like we could just ask maybe one question on streetlights or like there's somewhere we're asking lots of different 00:53:10
questions and maybe we could just. 00:53:14
Annual St. glands are a tricky example there, but I understand what you're saying. 00:53:18
The other one about why accent lighting was wondering about. 00:53:28
You know, trying to get a measure of. 00:53:33
If they care enough about the issue that they're going to have the city Reg. 00:53:37
Won't accept my as opposed to just because that's really the issue. 00:53:41
Is whether or not. 00:53:45
Citizens would be tolerant of the city engaging in. 00:53:48
That sort of. 00:53:51
Very personal regulation of foam accelerating. 00:53:53
Because it might be too bright, might be too dim, might be not not care, might might care a lot, but. 00:53:57
You care enough. 00:54:03
That you're willing to subject yourself to city regulation. 00:54:05
That's really. 00:54:08
Core issue there. I get any apps too about like sport ports and stuff like that then. 00:54:09
Pack that bike. 00:54:15
Broad match conclude. 00:54:20
One that I think. 00:54:31
If we were to broaden it, I think it distills the usefulness of the information that we're getting in anyone regard. So I don't 00:54:34
know if there's a way to. 00:54:40
Succinctly. 00:54:46
Expand that, but still get good quality data that addresses these questions. 00:54:48
Maybe it is. 00:54:53
Just down to what? 00:54:55
Types of. 00:54:56
Private property features residents feel the city should be allowed to regulate and that could be sort of a multiple choice 00:55:00
approach. 00:55:04
With none of the above option, because maybe they don't care strongly enough about any of these things. 00:55:09
Got it. 00:55:16
So if I could talk just a moment about how? 00:55:27
How the process we use to come up with a list that you see in front of you? 00:55:30
So Holly and I met with Kyrene and looked at the survey as a. 00:55:34
When has gone out in prior years? 00:55:40
And then we tried to think of other priority issues and areas of interest of the Council. 00:55:43
And then Kareem. 00:55:51
Suggested some questions to us. We may have gotten this wrong. 00:55:53
So home accent lighting. 00:55:57
We may have a different direction now than we had two months ago. 00:56:00
We're completely open if there are areas that you don't want to ask. 00:56:06
You feel like you have the information you need. We can certainly take those out. 00:56:11
I'm worse concerned about the lane. 00:56:17
And you would know better which question is. 00:56:23
However you feel. 00:56:35
That we can still meet the objectives to get information that we needed. 00:56:37
So that's a great question. We had some conversation about that today. One of our challenges we had intended to go in the field, I 00:56:44
think. 00:56:48
Yeah. 00:56:54
We have a questionnaire for the general plan that has also is also being shared with residents and we thought that could be a 00:56:56
little confusing, so Kyrie came up with. 00:57:01
A better time frame today. 00:57:07
So our suggested timeline to make sure that we're not stepping on toes or confusing residents with multiple surveys fielding at 00:57:09
St. 00:57:13
Is that the week after the general planned survey that's currently on the website has closed? 00:57:16
Is when we will send out or residents will start receiving invitations to participate in this survey. 00:57:22
We'll also have. 00:57:28
A short explanation in the invitation language that says. 00:57:29
If you participated in the General Plan survey, we appreciate your input. This is a longitudinal study that the community has been 00:57:34
doing for years, and we're looking to track some of the aspects of quality of life and holiday overtime. 00:57:40
Your participation in a scientific survey is very important. 00:57:47
So hopefully that. 00:57:50
Encourages participation without detracting participation in the general plan survey and allows us to. 00:57:51
To get that good representative sample that we need. 00:57:58
Are you concerned at all about the? 00:58:00
The overall related shell shock. 00:58:04
Lots of citizens are presently in. 00:58:06
And how that could skew results. 00:58:08
Well. 00:58:11
In conversational. 00:58:19
Was immediately. 00:58:22
Height of the pandemic. 00:58:23
And he saw in some of our quality of life ratings, just overall sentiment. 00:58:26
Residents up and down the WASAF front, not unique to holiday. 00:58:33
Residents were a little bit. 00:58:37
Grouchy, a little bit more pessimistic than they have been in here. 00:58:39
I wouldn't be surprised if you see some of that in the general sentiment question with one of the survey. But when we get into the 00:58:43
specific city service issues when we're looking at. 00:58:48
Sidewalks of streetlights and those things that. 00:58:53
Are a little bit closer to home for residents. I don't expect that we'll see that same effect. 00:58:55
Translate in ways that is, that are. 00:59:01
Misleading. 00:59:05
Presumably the general plan survey questions. 00:59:07
And there's no, I need to go through the general plan questionnaire a little bit more closely or Gina sent that over to me today. 00:59:11
So I'll make sure we don't have any. 00:59:16
Unnecessary overlap there. 00:59:22
There are again some of our longitudinal questions. They might have some similarities. 00:59:25
And I would want to keep those in place here anyway because that is how we've been tracking the health of the city overtime. 00:59:30
If we do, I'm looking at the 2022. 00:59:38
Did we do one prior to that as well? Did we do that? 00:59:42
So I mean to me. 00:59:48
A couple of things. 00:59:54
1 is when can we expect? 00:59:55
For White 2 to present the results of. 00:59:58
That's the other things that I talked about today. So we're planning on the 1st Council meeting in April is that we would share 01:00:01
results. 01:00:05
One comment I have is your budget. Yeah, this is a great like first presentation. 01:00:09
You know, and the Gina will come in. 01:00:16
You know, we'll start having a tentative budget, but I think it's great for the Council. 01:00:18
To have a baseline of kind of where things are at, but. 01:00:23
What's most important to me about the survey results is because some of these questions, honestly, you know what the answer is 01:00:26
going to be, right? 01:00:29
Yeah, yeah, your roads could be better, yeah. 01:00:34
But what is the? 01:00:37
I'm really interested in. 01:00:39
What the trending is? 01:00:41
Over. I don't know what's a, you know, can we compare? 01:00:43
19/22/25 and the you know, see what our residents feel about. 01:00:46
The direction of the city. 01:00:53
And get a sense of. 01:00:55
Give ourselves an honest appraisal of what our residents think about the job we're doing or where they think we should be. 01:00:58
Focusing our resources as we enter this budget season, I think that's really helpful information for the. 01:01:07
In that section at the front of the survey where we finally minimal treatment. 01:01:13
Or three through quickly. Those are the things that we are being longitudinally that we will be able to report. 01:01:18
How it has changed, if at all, since 2017? 01:01:23
Yeah, I mean, I would have to leave it to. I mean, I agree with them. I'll leave. 01:01:27
I don't want to go through this thing question by question, but if we could, if you guys could go through it and say? 01:01:32
With the goal of seeing if we could. 01:01:38
Could get the survey down to 1314 minute time frame but still get. 01:01:41
Really good information for us, I think that would be great. But I think for us the most important thing, at least for me, is I 01:01:46
want to see that. 01:01:50
Comparative data and get a real sense of. 01:01:54
Where our community thinks we are going and. 01:01:57
How we're doing and. 01:02:01
Where they'd like to see us focus and. 01:02:02
Where they want us to commit more resources, less resources. 01:02:05
Point taken. And Kyrene, sorry to interrupt. No, please. But what's also very helpful and you've done this in the past. 01:02:10
Is also give us just kind of your general view of. 01:02:16
How this relates to other? 01:02:23
Municipalities that you survey, you know how you think holiday ranks in that regard too, Because I know it's not an exact science, 01:02:26
right? So. 01:02:30
Yeah. 01:02:35
So I think the. 01:02:43
The question. 01:02:44
Is pulling the nose. 01:02:45
Benchmarking questions so. 01:02:50
We've been using for a. 01:02:51
Some time now. 01:02:53
Are there? 01:02:55
New lines of inquiry that we've added. 01:02:56
That should be deprioritized. Is there something that is very high priority to the Council that. 01:02:59
We have missed. 01:03:05
As we've aggregated these questions that we should remove some of these things and refocus our attention. 01:03:07
Doctor, do you want to ask? 01:03:13
We have a set of sustainability questions and those were some that we cut for time, so we can go back and make that shift if 01:03:30
there's something else that you would prefer to cut instead. 01:03:35
We're out of this or that point in this survey, so. 01:03:41
To be it's an important issue. 01:03:45
Hey, you've just added three questions. 01:03:52
Yeah, so. 01:03:57
All right, So scrapping clubs and groups, adding the sustainability section back, we can work from that. 01:04:09
So wherever we started, yeah, we're basically adding events, so. 01:04:18
So seems like. 01:04:24
There are several questions that are. 01:04:26
Sort of overlapping. 01:04:29
And I know that, David. 01:04:31
That maybe. 01:04:34
We can go through any which one which reason is more something than the other. Sure, I'm happy to go through and make 01:04:36
recommendations as to how we can streamline within topics, but if there are? 01:04:42
Again, any of these issues that we could deprioritize or shelf for a moment, those are the things that we'd like to know because. 01:04:49
While we can shave off a question here and there, eliminating some of those redundancies. 01:04:57
A new block of questions is carrying more weight than than slimming things down in other places. 01:05:03
Typically so. 01:05:10
Maybe this was extended with the illness. 01:05:12
But I wondered. 01:05:14
Probably it could be updated to. 01:05:22
And we can revisit that. I'll make sure that we are maintaining some parity with the the census distribution. 01:05:26
So it sounds like you'd like us to just go back and focus rather than. 01:05:35
Other than clubs, eliminate any. 01:05:42
Section that we've identified one of the nice like interesting versus usable kind of a thing. 01:05:45
Even if it gets down to. 01:05:54
Usable for core services. 01:05:57
If we have to go between necessary and useful. 01:05:59
OK. 01:06:10
Well, that sounds like you should get some time on the calendar with. 01:06:14
Sounds like it. 01:06:18
We'll look at something next week. 01:06:20
That sounds good. 01:06:24
I think then yeah, this just brings us to our demographic functions at the end of the survey, so. 01:06:26
Any other questions or comments for me before we go put our notes Absolutely right so. 01:06:32
How many municipalities do you present? 01:06:38
All of the municipalities that went to works with but I would have to do a quick mentality. 01:06:43
Work somewhere in the realm of 20 cities. 01:06:48
Some rotation, some of them are annually, some of them are biannually. 01:06:53
So you're very fast and use these questions. I'm assuming we have like. 01:06:56
We thought you're not reinventing. We're not reinventing the wheel as. 01:07:01
As often as possible there are some of the some of the topics. 01:07:06
That Holly and Gina had us introduced this year. We did not have standardized questions or from other communities. So there are a 01:07:10
few places here and there where. 01:07:14
We really. 01:07:19
Are tailoring something specific to holiday? But for the most part we do want to create something that is comparable to what we're 01:07:20
doing in other communities. 01:07:24
Well, thank you all for your time. 01:07:32
Thank you. Thanks so much. 01:07:35
The work is in the details on that fix for the holiday. Again, that's like. 01:07:40
It's really cool. 01:07:46
Integrity was fantastic. 01:07:49
Always do your stairs. 01:07:56
But like some of my business stuff. 01:08:00
What businesses come in and out of here, I guess. 01:08:04
And can do that if you could information for and. 01:08:07
He needs to go and bring. 01:08:12
Trying to recruit. 01:08:15
Some kind of business or businesses that are missing in the city. 01:08:17
And that's exactly the purpose for that question. 01:08:21
She's going to target her like a boutique, yeah. 01:08:26
Yeah, that's frustrating. Things for me is like. 01:08:31
They're going to tell you, oh, we want better restaurants in the city. 01:08:36
But we don't want more people to live in the city. It's like, well. 01:08:40
Yeah, yeah. And it's like, well. 01:08:46
We can't. 01:08:50
Nice places to shop. People need to go shop there to keep them in business and so there's this. 01:08:51
Anyway, umm. 01:08:57
All right. 01:08:59
Sure. So this came. 01:09:01
I'm trying to go back on this. As we were talking we had some. 01:09:04
Residents coming in and. 01:09:08
Talking about, you know, this new. 01:09:10
Ockerland, yes. 01:09:13
Yes, I think that. I think the two new homes on Walker Lane and Cottonwood Lane. 01:09:16
Or two that kind of spurred. 01:09:23
Start, but the discussion started before that, right? This has been. 01:09:25
Kind of brewing. 01:09:29
Residential properties treat. 01:09:33
Lighting is concerned. 01:09:36
We've historically had. 01:09:38
Commercial lighting standards that protect residential powers from development. 01:09:40
So now with the. 01:09:46
Readily available product. 01:09:47
Lights, they're so cheap and they're learning different color spectrums. 01:09:50
They're becoming. 01:09:55
From a resident's point of view, and he learned a nuisance between neighbor and neighbor only a commercial property. 01:09:57
Your Planning Commission right now currently reviews. 01:10:04
All site planets for planning standards, they go through a limited study to find out where the property lots. 01:10:07
Necklords are 7 lift. 01:10:13
Never had them. 01:10:15
Required of the lighting standard or lighting study but. 01:10:17
So in your packet is a staff report, but also. 01:10:21
Two different draft ordinances. 01:10:26
That you can take a look at in. 01:10:28
One of them is a draft ordinance that basically will just insert. 01:10:31
Into the residential zones. 01:10:37
There's a table in the staff report that shows. 01:10:40
Its own commercial properties and what the lighting standards are there. 01:10:43
And we would just do something similar. 01:10:48
Taking the draft ordinance at the end of the packet and just inserting it into the art. 01:10:50
Cheap clubs. 01:10:55
The second set of draft verdicts is something that would probably be recommended. 01:10:58
Definitely by my department. 01:11:04
Holistic Review. 01:11:06
We remove all of the lighting standards from all of the zones and create one location. 01:11:08
You know it has its own chapter in title. 01:11:13
Their title and chapter that addresses residential commercial properties. 01:11:15
More holistic with you. So that's what you would put Frankie. 01:11:19
Yeah, why? 01:11:23
That one is because we have the opportunity to take a look at how all properties are addressed together. 01:11:25
Rather than having to address specific standard specific zones because you're getting to the point where there shouldn't be 01:11:31
specialized. 01:11:35
Lighting standards for specific. 01:11:40
You know, commercials, online and residential properties. 01:11:42
There still is residential standards in that second section, the second draft code. 01:11:45
And then all the other commercial problems are through the left there. 01:11:49
Standard, but then that gives us an opportunity to. 01:11:53
Provide a developer or property owner as to examples of. 01:11:57
What a full cutoff blood. 01:12:01
How can pedestrian lighting work more properly or properly as far as. 01:12:05
Security. 01:12:09
And also accident fighting. 01:12:11
It gives you the opportunity to take a look at citywide. 01:12:13
The spectrum or the Kelvin range of what light is that is. 01:12:17
One of the in terms of implementation, unfortunately we're talking about. 01:12:24
The review for. 01:12:29
The new remodels, building permits or does it? 01:12:31
Place an onus on existing. 01:12:35
Lighting where you have to then go in. 01:12:37
Code enforcement comes around and say that's no good anymore. It's been there for 20 years. Yeah, there's existing lighting. We'd 01:12:41
be recommending a nuisance enforcement. 01:12:45
That it provides a nuisance issue based upon the standards that are in here and the glare. 01:12:49
You know, opposing traffic that has a problem with. 01:12:56
Confusing traffic with. 01:13:01
In pedestrian. 01:13:03
Blockability issues from driving down the street if that glare is actually so bright you can't see. 01:13:05
Happens anymore because you drive up and down. 01:13:10
Most of the streets in the city. 01:13:15
Especially and even in the area. 01:13:17
There's a lot of. 01:13:20
Residential. 01:13:21
Lighting. It's on gates and fences and such. 01:13:22
The difference between those that are more acceptable and others that are might be. 01:13:27
And more pragmatic is the color. 01:13:32
And that's what would be. 01:13:34
Interested. I have the enforcement. 01:13:36
For construction, it would be anything. It would be the new construction. So a difference in new builds. Yeah, we need to have a 01:13:39
lighting plan show. 01:13:42
What's being proposed as far as security in the accent, that new construction, new remodel, that's an easier course because it's 01:13:47
in process. 01:13:51
Enforcing the new standards. 01:13:55
Existing that may have been for years and years and years and all of a sudden. 01:13:58
If you did. 01:14:07
I'm still, yeah. 01:14:12
But but it would be case by case based off of reported, correct? 01:14:16
And we define what the news we would do nothing unless there's no claim, essentially. 01:14:21
On existing. 01:14:26
You'd have to have if it's providing a nuisance issue, but they would what they would require the property to do. 01:14:31
Is to sort of register a non compliant. 01:14:38
Situation. 01:14:41
So whenever you have a new ordinance that's provided. 01:14:42
And that creates non compliance. 01:14:45
Situations like an Adu or a house. 01:14:48
We need to know when that was actually put in place. 01:14:51
If it's creating a nuisance with that new situation that's you have to implicit, you're equally at cost. 01:14:55
Yeah, 'cause I was looking at this like. 01:15:02
Any permit? 01:15:05
From the adoption point forward. 01:15:08
Would have to comply with these standards. 01:15:10
But what you're saying is? 01:15:13
We're going to put Nords in place. 01:15:15
Allows us to enforce non compliance. 01:15:19
That's from a grandfathered standpoint, like. 01:15:23
That's what's being proposed, yeah. 01:15:25
So the example is maybe like a safety issue, Rebel light, but the glare thing was blocked and carrying visibility pedestrians, 01:15:28
yes, today we couldn't do anything about it. Have anything that has a public nuisance factor for lighting. 01:15:35
Yeah. So, Mayor, I would look at it a little bit differently. I would think you would put a new ordinance in place to regulate new 01:15:43
construction for. 01:15:47
Permit required changes. 01:15:51
And then for things that exist prior to that overnight, you wouldn't unfortunately get into those unless you're creating public. 01:15:54
And as opposed to looking at your ordinance standards to define if they're non compliant, you would. 01:16:03
You would have to rely on the public nuisance standard and that's a tough standard to me, to be honest with you. Come on. 01:16:10
The situation would have to be extreme to take enforcement action against something like that. Yeah. And that's the main. 01:16:16
Right. And that's the existing condition in the law, right? 01:16:25
To be honest with you. 01:16:28
We wouldn't enforce it, but a neighbor can enforce. 01:16:29
A nuisance type situation against their neighbor. 01:16:32
Through independent action, this would allow the city. 01:16:36
To get involved in that, but our standard to get involved is really high. 01:16:39
And the circumstances where I think we would jump into something like that. 01:16:43
Would be pretty rare. 01:16:47
What it does do? 01:16:48
Is it creates that additional burden where? 01:16:50
The neighbor can now say, as opposed to us being able to tell them, look, this is a private issue, you've got it resolved. 01:16:53
They can lean on the city to say you need to enforce the nuisance standard of your ordinance. 01:16:59
That's a pressure point that's hard, and it's the Disney standard specified. Like, would there be? 01:17:04
Some specification of what that meant in the lighting section. 01:17:09
It's a common law, kind of with Phoenix. 01:17:13
And that common law standard is high again. 01:17:16
The concern that I think the Council should have that I have. 01:17:19
Is that that's your point of citizens not saying? 01:17:23
You need to enforce the nuisance part because under your niche then. 01:17:25
That constant pressure plays hard. 01:17:31
It's hard on your staff. 01:17:35
It's hard on you taking all the calls. 01:17:36
That, you know, that's just one of those points that I think as you start to look at regulations like this, you have to think, 01:17:38
Tom. 01:17:41
So sorry you were saying that as it stands though. 01:17:44
They'd have to take. 01:17:47
Private action medium which has to come to terms or. 01:17:48
They right now a neighbor could sue another neighbor over. 01:17:51
A life situation that creates enough of a nuisance that you would say that's just too much, right? 01:17:56
That exists a lot right now. 01:18:01
We don't necessarily have a right to get involved in that unless it's. 01:18:04
Creating some kind of a public safety habit, the hazard that is beyond just neighbor, neighbor. 01:18:09
But it's broader, right? And and that again, if you think about that, that's pretty extreme situation. 01:18:13
That does make sense. 01:18:18
So. 01:18:21
I mean, what we're getting at that here opens up a can of worms. 01:18:24
For homes that were built prior to the ordinance going in place right, we're. 01:18:29
We're OK with OK going forward. 01:18:34
And I think what Emily was getting at was. 01:18:36
Was. 01:18:39
Standards. Umm. 01:18:41
1:00 and 2:00 because I look at the same way, I'm like, I thought you'd want to go to standards 1 because standard 2 would be 01:18:43
like. 01:18:45
Put all this pressure on staffing and what you're saying is the opposite. We'd rather have more. 01:18:49
Control at the outset to take a look at what the lighting plan is for home and say, hey, here's what you can and can't do. Or you 01:18:53
tell them what they can and can't do, but then you have a chance to look at it, say you need to. 01:18:59
True. Tweet these things if you're comfortable with what. 01:19:05
Has a very high standard. 01:19:13
And it's being, I mean, we tweak every single one of the ordinances if there's an amendment is difficult rather than trying to 01:19:17
just change one section. 01:19:22
Having zones to point to your outdoor lighting section as your. 01:19:27
Force as far as amendments, or at least. 01:19:32
People protection unequal education is that. 01:19:36
Independent of whether or not we decided to include residential areas, would that be helpful? 01:19:40
Anyway, yes. 01:19:45
So John, can you talk a little bit about? 01:19:48
Staff time that would be involved in reviewing these new plans. 01:19:52
And then whether we expect any resident pushback to a professionally developed and submitted fighting plan? 01:19:56
Yeah. So right now over the past five years. 01:20:05
Plan review as. 01:20:10
Both and required to be expedited. 01:20:12
But also lengthened because we have now landscaping plans and other architectural use that we have go through. 01:20:15
So reviewing the additional lighting plan would add. 01:20:21
At least 1/2 an hour of reach half the sight line, which doesn't seem very much, but when you're having to go through. 01:20:24
Multiples through the summer and it does data so there is there is a cost required there for the staff review. 01:20:30
Cost of the South and then the cost of the residence, everything. 01:20:36
Yeah, right. 01:20:44
Is that the same for? 01:20:46
Standard one and standard 2 or the standard one? Basically standard one just provides both the. 01:20:50
Give me you can go to the manufacturer of the. 01:20:56
Picture in Mumbai we have a cut sheet. 01:20:59
That we can review that. 01:21:03
So specifically what we look at when we have professionals involved. 01:21:09
Is that just like an architect you know we have? 01:21:14
The ability to defend a decision whether or not a plan complies with the code it's been designed by professionally. 01:21:18
And not just reviewed by staff and making the determination. 01:21:25
So I think maybe I was misunderstanding the standards or the levels because it sounds like what you're saying is? 01:21:30
The level 1. 01:21:38
Is dealing with. 01:21:40
Just to really face like a really straightforward standard of. 01:21:42
Level of things I know that people can buy. 01:21:48
Is there a way you could? 01:21:50
Create similar straightforwardness. 01:21:53
And and still also create what you're talking about like. 01:21:57
Citywide lighting standards or is that not yes. So if you look at the the level 2. 01:22:00
Yeah, isn't it? 01:22:07
For the end. 01:22:13
There's a residential only section. 01:22:25
And that somewhat mirrors what the level 1 standard is. 01:22:29
There is so soon he will stay glad in families or single family zones. 01:22:36
So you have a full cutoff type, fixture height and maximum height through soffits. 01:22:41
Our lighting fixtures develop the seat height of 12 feet. 01:22:46
An illumination standard with a spectrum elevation and then. 01:22:49
Switching controls. 01:22:54
And that's pretty minimal. 01:22:55
Everyone has to hire lighting professional or add an extra. The lighting pressure is in the commercial section. 01:22:58
Oh, that's in the site plan review. Yes, practically what does that look like? Is that something where? 01:23:06
General contractor. 01:23:13
Has a lagging professional that does that for them. 01:23:14
Or is it is a? 01:23:18
President for having to go out and find. 01:23:20
A light and professional to do the review. 01:23:23
Generally the the architect who's making your plans. 01:23:26
Bring your mind to have connection. 01:23:29
It's usually a pretty simple gift. 01:23:32
But would that be another person? It would be another person they would have to hire. 01:23:35
Burdensome. 01:23:40
He seemed like he can't get anything done for less than 1000 bucks. Yeah, correct. 01:23:43
If there was a way. 01:23:51
To make a more straightforward plan then you could. 01:23:52
Address. I don't see how they're related. Maybe this is what I'm starting this? 01:23:57
You've got the complex. 01:24:02
Option where you have the light pressure will go in and customize everything. 01:24:04
But then I don't know how that relates to. 01:24:08
Creating a unified citywide. 01:24:12
Lighting 30. 01:24:14
You've got standards and you've got construction of the ordinance, right? 01:24:17
The actual Fighting standards. Simple, complex. 01:24:21
And how you construct it in code? 01:24:25
Spread out through all the zones or. 01:24:28
Consolidated, there's something to be two different. 01:24:30
Thanks. Yeah, yeah. 01:24:33
Because we can make the standard straightforward so that people aren't having to hire a light professional and you guys taking 01:24:36
extra time, but then take those straightforward standards. 01:24:41
And create. 01:24:47
What you were talking about about like over a? 01:24:48
No, I don't totally understand. 01:24:54
And as long as you're comfortable with staff reviewing things that the individuals who are like the last. 01:24:56
Point of contact to be doing all this. 01:25:01
Compliance. Absolutely, yeah. 01:25:05
I'm not a lying professional. I'm Steve. 01:25:09
Well, I know what can be garish as far as safety problem. 01:25:12
And what could? 01:25:19
Basically cause a problem across neighbors but. 01:25:20
A good example that I think I showed Gina a while back. 01:25:24
Some lighting fixtures were placed on a House of Renewed. 01:25:28
It was the element on the inside that we really didn't know how intense that. 01:25:33
Light was, I mean it was under the 4000 Kelvin level, so it was in a warmer light spectrum. 01:25:37
But it had the wattage intensity of probably only three or 400 Watt bulb. 01:25:44
And it was shining directly in the neighbor's property. 01:25:49
I didn't have the. 01:25:54
Details on that cut sheet to show me what the effective reflective light would be. 01:25:56
Only just a couple of times standard. 01:26:01
Design parameters of what the color and what the intensity would be. 01:26:04
So were you saying, John, without some specificity in the ordinance, it's going to put you in a position where you're making 01:26:09
subjective determinations that maybe? 01:26:14
I think you know, maybe you're not. 01:26:20
Bring a hammer to a screwdriver guy. 01:26:28
A handful of times it might happen. 01:26:35
Yeah, how often is this? The only lagging questions I've ever had is Moore Street. People wanted more streetlights. That's the 01:26:39
only thing that I ever hear in Lighting Minds. I've never had any. 01:26:43
Links about learning and things like that. I'm sure it happens. 01:26:48
Other questions How many new builds do we? 01:26:51
Are we open here? I forget is it we have around 3030? I had said that for yourself. 01:26:54
And we averaged for complaints. 01:27:00
Uh, no more than. 01:27:05
Dozen a year per year. 01:27:06
Yeah, that's tough. It's like one of those deals where. 01:27:09
You think? 01:27:12
You don't necessarily have a law for everything, right? 01:27:13
Can I just raise my point? 01:27:19
Just kind of looking forward maybe. 01:27:21
I think this is an important discussion. I understand the problem. 01:27:25
The desire to regulate this particular issue. 01:27:30
I don't know how it would be received by. 01:27:34
Builders, I know how it will be received by the general development community. 01:27:39
They would look at this as a step backwards as opposed to forwards. 01:27:45
Along the lines of what they're trying to get to in the law, It was a couple of years ago where? 01:27:50
There is a statutory. 01:27:55
Prohibition against regulating design elements. 01:27:57
And structures and I. 01:28:01
Proceed this. 01:28:03
Next year being added to that kind of list. 01:28:05
Something like that. 01:28:08
I think you could generally get a fairly strong reaction to this type of an ordinance. 01:28:10
It just kind of. 01:28:17
I think it would be characterized as. 01:28:18
A step backwards in that little broad spectrum of city regulation about. 01:28:21
Residential development as opposed to a step further. 01:28:26
So behind that, is there also a recommendation here? 01:28:31
Making with regard to. 01:28:35
I haven't tried to dive into the ordinance in every detail and look at every part. 01:28:37
I don't necessarily have. 01:28:45
Tremendous, I guess I would say hesitancy about regulating the lighting on these structures. 01:28:50
In a way that's reasonable. One of the things I hear all the time. 01:28:55
Is you're making me spend another 1500 or $2000? 01:28:59
With the plan for my remodel. 01:29:05
Or my house at all. 01:29:07
That adding another design professional is a big thing. 01:29:09
Right now. 01:29:13
I know you said. 01:29:16
Like. 01:29:18
To me, I guess because it's not massive. 01:29:21
Problem. I'd rather. 01:29:25
I'd rather have that approach than. 01:29:27
Requiring everybody to hire another professional and. 01:29:30
Yeah. And then to address the. 01:29:33
The principles of concern, you know about light trespass and and that. 01:29:37
If if your lighting design ends up. 01:29:44
Once installed. 01:29:48
You know, having a polite trespass problem the city. 01:29:50
Supportive of your neighbor's complaint. 01:29:55
You know, sort of thing where he doesn't put so much detail bonus on you guys. 01:29:57
But rather to encourage. 01:30:04
Conscientiousness as opposed to. 01:30:07
Overspecific prescription. 01:30:11
I think part of like this. 01:30:14
Came to the Council. 01:30:16
Community Compliance. 01:30:20
Well, two houses on Walker, but we've got one on Lakewood too. 01:30:25
That was built. That's got a. 01:30:31
Probably 20 foot peak like this and it's got these. 01:30:34
What do you call those thoughts at live to them and when they turn them on, it's like a Christmas tree and so it. 01:30:37
And so, but there are specific instances where, and I think what the Council is saying is. 01:30:43
Yeah, we've had specific instances that are problem, but do we want to? 01:30:48
Then go put in an ordinance that requires us to. 01:30:53
Hire a design professional which sounds like an. 01:30:56
We don't want to do that. Yeah. So I guess the question back to you, John, is? 01:31:00
Is there a more? 01:31:05
Is there any way that those? 01:31:08
Situations could have been avoided a little bit without taking a hammer. 01:31:11
To the ordinance and maybe there's not I don't know maybe we just have to even an educational PC. That's funny Mayor and John and 01:31:15
this last week went about two weeks in this Adu issue. 01:31:20
Where I love this line that this. 01:31:25
Constituent gave, he said. You know, dispute, I think it was. 01:31:27
Very justified his dissatisfaction with seeing you. 01:31:31
He told his neighbor. He said, look, you may have complied with. 01:31:34
The with holidays. 01:31:37
Law or rule? 01:31:41
But you didn't. 01:31:43
I would love to see it. 01:31:46
Where when builders come in or you know, or whatever, the first thing they should say is. 01:31:48
Think about the golden rule when you're building the home, yeah, or whatever. And that's. 01:31:53
The PowerPoint, you know, if we could address the principle wise and. 01:31:56
If there's some way, it's a. 01:32:00
I don't know. I know it's more of a persuasion rather than. 01:32:02
That we handle the law and whatever. 01:32:04
Call attention to these things best practices. 01:32:06
And we want to build our home. Those sofa lights are our builder discourse it because. 01:32:09
I think the exact discussion was that I like that, yeah. And I think the primary concern from staff would be. 01:32:13
It's not like you're inspecting something like as it's being built for compliance. 01:32:20
You're having to wait until the. 01:32:26
Are installed powered on at night to see. 01:32:28
It's like I know it when I see it type of situation. 01:32:32
So good stuff. And curtain would be what you said 12 completely right. Yeah, I think of that. 01:32:37
I could run the report, I'm not sure sure, it doesn't seem like it's. 01:32:42
That's not existing. Largely not existing. 01:32:49
Yeah. 01:32:53
It's largely on. 01:32:55
Version of existing lighting. Usually we'll get. 01:32:57
Individual who's installed with a spotlight or a ring Cam. 01:33:00
About those are pointed so very. 01:33:03
Egregiously the biggest obstacle. 01:33:07
I mean, it's justifiable. I mean, I think from a negative externality kind of thing, light trespasses. 01:33:10
There's a, there's a property, right? That's kind of to a degree. 01:33:16
But I agree, we could make it. 01:33:23
Not the hammer. 01:33:25
And more principle based, is that helpful? Sure. I mean if that's something that we want to take to the Planning Commission for 01:33:27
this Level 1 standard? 01:33:31
We can just insert that right in through. 01:33:36
And the R1 and R2 are the zones. 01:33:38
And it will address your concern with your nonperforming fixtures in that section that talks about. 01:33:42
Anything that would be installed at the time of this. 01:33:48
Adoption. Umm. 01:33:51
It would be grandfathers, essentially. 01:33:52
Non conforming by fixture. 01:33:54
When would you feel comfortable with that type of review? 01:34:01
Do you feel like your staff have the qualifications to do that type of review? 01:34:07
My staff is not trained at elimination. 01:34:13
Reviews. 01:34:17
But if I have a standard that says it has to be 4000 Kelvin and I have a cut sheet of the fixture that says this light is. 01:34:19
Meets that standard. 01:34:27
We would have to accept it. 01:34:29
And then go out and verify that what actually gets installed. 01:34:30
And that would be as part of the inspection. 01:34:35
Of the occupancy section. When would we do that? A separate inspection? 01:34:40
So I thought this is only going to be. 01:34:47
We have to verify that it's been completed and it hasn't been completed or incomplete and. 01:34:53
Potentially fall back. 01:34:59
So we're adding staff time, let's say 1/2 an hour for 35. So it's. 01:35:01
A weakish. 01:35:07
Of time a little more than. 01:35:09
These are new builds that aren't really the problem. This isn't the retrofitted. 01:35:12
Those were a lot of the complaints are coming from. Is that right? 01:35:17
Well, the arts, Well, the year is. 01:35:21
Replacement of existing fixtures, but then we do have the. 01:35:24
The homes that decided to put. 01:35:27
Well, the issue is not necessarily homes whipping lighting, it's homes where there wasn't a house before. 01:35:29
Mm-hmm. This was these two lots on. 01:35:35
Monitor were part of the larger piece that was subdivided out and they were heavily wooded. 01:35:39
They never had really a resident right up on, residents right up on. 01:35:44
And then they went. 01:35:52
And then in terms of other staff costs, we'll have let's say A2 hour minimum for an inspection after hours. 01:35:54
Or they provide some Zola grandchild. 01:36:04
So it's. 01:36:10
It's not an inconsequential expenditure from a staff to my perspective. 01:36:12
Is there? Could could be? 01:36:18
Maybe like. 01:36:20
Rather than go for it, could we take the easing and approach and is there, is there an opportunity to have the conversation at 01:36:21
least on every new build? 01:36:25
That like a box that you check. Like we've talked to them about being conscientious of their writing. 01:36:29
We have what's called project information guides. They're not ordinance, they're not law, right? 01:36:35
They're sort of. 01:36:40
Like here's Energy Star appliances, you can put it in the house. 01:36:42
It's it's specifically talks about types of fixtures that. 01:36:46
Are generally accepted. 01:36:50
I could show you what that guide looks like. 01:36:52
What color spectrums you should select through outside lighting, but you're handing it to panicking on them reading of what's 01:36:54
probably not gonna happen. You're handing it to the owner or to the builder, or usually this to the builder. 01:37:00
And that's, I don't think that one. 01:37:07
How we do that effective I on houses? Honestly, I rarely. 01:37:09
Interactive stuff. 01:37:13
But you do interact with the builder and that's where again I don't know if there's ways where. 01:37:17
Your staff, you just, you know, maybe it's kind of a preemptive. 01:37:22
Part of your dialogue that you have on a regular basis. 01:37:28
That's 20 seconds rather than two hours after hours and. 01:37:31
On site inspections and stuff like that where it's just. 01:37:36
Somehow weaved into the process where it's a. 01:37:39
Point was discussed. 01:37:42
You know where there's a plea made for sure. 01:37:44
Trying to decide where we're at on this discussion. Well, I mean. 01:37:52
Fall back on what my recommendation because. 01:37:55
The ordinance for having outdoor lighting should be all in one place. 01:37:58
Rather than sporadic and inconsistent. 01:38:03
Food's on design. 01:38:05
I think we're all cool with that, yeah. 01:38:07
Sure, yes. 01:38:11
I guess at a really basic level I'd like to understand whether there is support to move forward. This would mean, because it's 01:38:13
affecting Title 13, would need to go to the Planning Commission first. 01:38:19
So it. 01:38:25
This will get. 01:38:27
There's a lot of time involved if the Council is not supportive conceptually. 01:38:29
I think Todd has given us some. 01:38:36
Another perspective to consider in terms of how this type of ordinance could be interpreted at a state level. 01:38:39
Is there support on the Council? 01:38:49
From 4 of you to move forward with this type of ordinance. 01:38:52
Does moving it all to one place in the code require going to the Planning Commission? 01:38:56
I don't think we're going to avoid that. 01:39:04
And. 01:39:07
I think we. 01:39:09
That's fine, but is what you're asking Gina is. 01:39:10
Making. 01:39:12
Fundamental changes to the code beyond that, that's going to. 01:39:14
Umm, really involve. 01:39:18
Dramatically changing. Maybe not dramatically, maybe not, but substantially changing. 01:39:21
Staff time and requiring. 01:39:27
A homeowner or builder to hire a lighting professional. 01:39:30
It doesn't seem like there's an app, but we're not there yet primarily. 01:39:34
Like trespass, Yeah, and instead of? 01:39:40
Getting overly technical on the fixtures, but rather. 01:39:43
If you have. 01:39:46
A light trespass of a certainly measurement or beyond. 01:39:47
The city would support. 01:39:53
Complaint against you. 01:39:54
Yeah. But I think we need to understand that they don't engage. They don't. 01:39:57
But that's that's going to be a very high thought. 01:40:06
To enforce that right like what what's life drops past I mean, and I don't know if that. 01:40:08
Bar would be quite. 01:40:13
Sort of just a general nuisance standard overall. 01:40:15
To define like the issue. 01:40:21
Without having to get into measuring what actually. 01:40:25
Yeah. 01:40:28
Usually they address it by just saying, look, your picture has to have. 01:40:29
The full cutoff would work. 01:40:33
I can't perceive the source of the light. 01:40:35
Across the horizon. 01:40:38
So if I'm standing below a fixture, that's where I see the light element, or if I'm above it at level or above it, then I don't. 01:40:40
Problems that we have soffit lights when you're 35 feet in the air and that. 01:40:47
Spotlight bulb is definitely. 01:40:52
The element that you're seeing we're proceeding. 01:40:55
And that could go across the street, that could go, you know, to the neighbor's property. 01:40:57
Yeah, so that doesn't solve the problem. 01:41:03
Just. 01:41:05
Because if it's too high. 01:41:08
You solve nothing. 01:41:09
And so the issue is the light trespass regardless of the fixture. 01:41:11
Is there a? 01:41:15
Recognize definition of like trespass that we believe. 01:41:16
There is Dark Sky Association does have them. 01:41:21
We can. We can definitely put it in there. 01:41:23
The issue is how to measure it. 01:41:26
With a violation. 01:41:28
So I'm either standing at a property line with a light either. 01:41:30
Measuring amount of Loomis coming out of that fixture morning receiving what that where the element is. 01:41:33
I think it's it's more or less the indiscriminate use of. It's an issue on the radio night path. 01:41:41
Yeah, I mean, I also don't want to be bleeding edge. 01:41:47
Inventing a wheel here. We're not that I'm trying to address the principle of the problem and not. 01:41:50
But but I don't know if there's a way to do that without reinventing it or creating a new wheel. 01:42:00
Is there really a dressing kind of in the nuisance? 01:42:07
Principle not I don't know that. 01:42:11
Well, like if your neighbors. Yeah, I think I know it's. 01:42:17
Property that and you just leave that. 01:42:22
Less. 01:42:25
Just like a rational man standard. 01:42:27
I don't know, leave it up to the enforcement officer to make that determination. Is that that's probably fully subjective. 01:42:30
Yeah, that sounds like no way. 01:42:38
And I think Tom would much rather have standard. 01:42:43
Well, I think I mean the issue is we're trying to. 01:42:46
We've had. 01:42:50
A handful of incidents that are a problem, right? And so now we're trying to. 01:42:52
What you know. 01:42:57
Break this code to address those issues and I think what? 01:42:58
Emily's trying to get into their way. 01:43:02
Say, hey, yeah, let's combine the codes to make it easy. But then can we? 01:43:05
Address those handful of incidents through. 01:43:08
You know. 01:43:12
Through a nuisance code and trying to get code enforcement to work with the neighbors to solve the problems rather than. 01:43:14
Take a hammer to it and create a whole book. 01:43:20
Regs regulation and and and burden property of, you know, burden people with. 01:43:24
Now we gotta. 01:43:29
Now we got a higher lighting professional and now we got to have somebody on staff to review what the code is and then they got to 01:43:31
go. 01:43:34
I mean that's the issue is we're. 01:43:37
Nobody wants to do that at this point. 01:43:40
We haven't reached the point where we have enough of an issue that we want to do that. 01:43:47
On the other hand. 01:43:53
There is kind of this thing that if you let someone in, put in the light. 01:43:54
And then they're like. 01:43:58
I got the permit I put in there. 01:44:01
A neighbors man in your town? 01:44:03
Change. 01:44:07
Yeah. 01:44:09
They you say this is the standard. 01:44:12
When you go during the day during. 01:44:16
Inspection. They say they've got the standard. 01:44:18
Then their neighbor complained six months later. 01:44:20
That they're not meeting the standard. 01:44:23
And so then it's back on you. You said you met the standard, you signed something or whatever saying I'm meeting this standard. 01:44:26
So putting it on them rather than on staff during the inspection. 01:44:33
OK. Yeah, you may clear the standard, but we're not going to expect to inspect it. But then if there's a complaint and you're out 01:44:38
of it. 01:44:43
What's the approach where they're given? 01:44:52
It's a lot of hearing officer time. 01:44:57
But and the standard would be a like trust that standard that. 01:45:00
A fixture stand. 01:45:05
I'm not sure where we are other than. 01:45:08
More efficiently cleaning up the code, but I don't think that does anything unless I'm wrong. 01:45:11
Of addressing the original problem we are trying to solve here, right? 01:45:19
What's that? 01:45:23
Fiesta relatively small. 01:45:25
Yeah, it's a. 01:45:27
It's an isolated problem. 01:45:29
And the Council doesn't have, I think I'm summarizing it, the council doesn't have the appetite. 01:45:31
To put in an overburden some code. 01:45:37
To handle what are pretty isolated issues in terms of lighting. 01:45:41
Yeah, even though we're empathetic to the situation, I mean. 01:45:47
Yeah. 01:45:51
Situation. 01:45:54
It's hard for a building inspector to. 01:45:57
Verified that the. 01:46:01
Contractor has done what contract? 01:46:03
I mean. 01:46:06
I keep going back to Emily's. 01:46:08
Idea of where? 01:46:10
They can say, OK, this is the lumens of the lighting we put in. 01:46:11
But then later down the road they find out that that was not the case. 01:46:17
So that would go to code enforcement, right? So the code enforcement come back and. 01:46:22
Say, hey, you know, you said that you put these lights on, but you, you installed these lights, but in fact you installed 01:46:27
different ones that are brighter and now your neighbors are mad. 01:46:32
Yes, that could definitely be something I would definitely foresee happen is you can go back to the original approved set. 01:46:38
Verify that that was an approved fixture was to be installed. 01:46:45
And then coming back and saying that doesn't match up, that's definitely something at least. 01:46:50
The code enforcement situation. 01:46:55
Right. Could you explain the hearing officer concerning movies? 01:46:58
Well, what I was talking about is if you. 01:47:01
You adopt A certain standard. 01:47:05
For the lighting in the city. 01:47:08
You know the staff approves it. 01:47:10
Then a neighbor comes back and says you should not have approved that it violates your standard. 01:47:12
That ends up going through an enforcement process that involves. 01:47:17
City hiring and administrative hearing officer. 01:47:21
To hear the dispute essentially between the parties with the city. 01:47:25
Presenting information. 01:47:28
Making a decision and there's a cost to the city. 01:47:30
In that we pay the hearing officer. 01:47:33
Their staff time involved. 01:47:35
Sometimes you have somebody from our office presenting on behalf of staff this particular area issue. 01:47:38
It there is a cost to the city in that whole process, I wasn't thinking of them approving the plan so much as saying this is the 01:47:43
light trespass standard. 01:47:48
That you need to comply with. 01:47:52
And then and then whether we approve the plan or we hand out a standard and we haven't adopted standard in the city, I think you 01:47:54
end up in a hearing is a position with that either way. 01:47:59
Not something where. 01:48:08
Officer Gallop goes out with his light meter, measures that he said no, sorry you didn't, this doesn't. 01:48:10
Sure, sure, we get that. But then we still probably end up in an enforcement process. 01:48:14
Either way, whether it's from a third party, property owner or neighbor. 01:48:18
Or the city enforcing the code. Whatever it may be, we probably end up in enforcement process others. 01:48:21
Yeah. Well, what's the cost of that? 01:48:27
Prepared to 1500 bucks per. 01:48:28
Right, by putting these standards. 01:48:32
Yeah, you don't get as many that end up in front of you. 01:48:35
If I could if I can remedy the problem by changing out. 01:48:38
$150.00 fixture. 01:48:42
Or reducing the wattage or something, right? 01:48:45
The practical way you're going to see these things though, is I think is. 01:48:49
Three or four or five years after build. 01:48:53
Somebody changes the landscaping in their backyard and they want to light it. 01:48:55
In some particular way and then they put in a different fixture to light and then. 01:48:59
Hearing that enforcement process. 01:49:04
And it's just not a. 01:49:07
To be honest with you, it's not an intuitive thing necessarily most property owners to think. 01:49:08
So I think the lighting in my backyard. 01:49:13
Got to comply with some code that was present at the time I built my house. 01:49:17
But it does appear to their name. 01:49:21
I wonder if this is an issue. Those standards can be. 01:49:24
Simplified greatly if you want to just. 01:49:28
Take them as a case by case basis. So you have. 01:49:32
Outdoor lighting poles. 01:49:35
Like your support court lighting, they don't exceed a maximum bite and after you feel cut off. 01:49:37
There's a diagram in there that can be provided. Then this is what we're really looking for. 01:49:41
We're going to be looking for the warmth of the light, the Kelvin scale. 01:49:46
So that can be somewhat fairly easily verified. 01:49:51
Anything would be on the slot, like on the Gable ends where softer lights are installed. 01:49:55
If you wanted to have a standard, he says, your maximum saw the light. 01:50:00
Height is. 01:50:03
20 feet is the Max height of accessory buildings. 01:50:06
And generally the maximum height of a Gable and you move down that comes around. 01:50:09
The roof in the home. 01:50:14
They don't have lights above 20 feet. 01:50:18
And is that the approach that Cottonwood Heights has taken? 01:50:20
Yeah. 01:50:24
So what are you hearing? Definitely professional lighting requirements for a residential site plan review. 01:50:28
For commercial new builds, definitely in additions. 01:50:37
Strengthen the nuisance requirement requirement for. 01:50:43
After construction has been finished. 01:50:47
We're not going to have anything that has to do with occupancy requirements on. 01:50:50
Verifying. 01:50:54
Light fixture installations. 01:50:56
Although that does become that is part of your zoning standard. Everything in your zoning standard has to be compliant before 01:50:58
occupancy. Scranton. 01:51:02
You might want to look at that a little closer. 01:51:06
And then? 01:51:10
What's the other thing we're talking about? 01:51:12
Oh, and then I like trespass. 01:51:20
Yes, that would be taken care of by making sure that ethylene cutoff was. 01:51:22
And the maximum height of what the fixture would be. Those would be helpful things to look at to. 01:51:29
Address some of these kind of isolated incidents without. 01:51:34
Taking a hammer to the ordinance, Yeah, I've seen the photos of those houses. We can take a look at what that would have changed 01:51:39
in existences. 01:51:43
The only thing I'm worried about is when you have an upward lighting situation where your landscape lighting wall washes the front 01:51:48
of the home. 01:51:51
That is declared a reflection that creates like just gas. 01:51:56
Hope you got something you want to get into. 01:52:00
We're actually looking for the source of the life and regulate it. 01:52:03
So Todd, given what John has just identified as something that might be the structure of an ordinance. 01:52:07
How likely would an ordinance like that be? 01:52:13
Preempted next session. 01:52:17
You know landscaping plans. 01:52:39
Right now there's a lot of those things that are already. 01:52:42
Percolating. 01:52:46
And I just think that the. 01:52:47
I don't want to call it a salt. That sounds really pejorative, that salt. 01:52:51
Is ongoing. 01:52:55
Let me just do what Colin Heights did. 01:52:57
OK, that was a long. 01:53:03
Mayor, I'm still not sure. Do we have more people that are supportive of moving forward? 01:53:06
Period. 01:53:15
What John identified, John just bulleted out. 01:53:18
Based on what you heard though, what's the next step does that? 01:53:22
I mean, we know we're going to have to go back to Planning Commission if we combine. 01:53:26
Put the ordinances in one place, right? 01:53:30
Right. Can I make a suggestion there? I would rather come back here. 01:53:33
With the broader. 01:53:37
Kind of a. 01:53:38
The ordinance that we're talking about, before we go to the planning, yeah, yeah, I'd like to know if they're supported this like 01:53:39
from the policy standpoint. 01:53:43
Of what we're trying to reach before we go to the Planning Commission. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure we understand we're not 01:53:48
going to avoid that. It's going to have to go through a public process process regardless. But yeah, I agree with you that. 01:53:53
That we should agree on everything that's going to the Planning Commission before. 01:53:59
We send it to the planet policy. 01:54:03
Generally right. 01:54:07
Particularly to take it, yeah. 01:54:09
I agree. I'm not sure exactly what. 01:54:12
Guidance we gave John, but it looks like. 01:54:14
Yeah, yeah. 01:54:22
I'm interested in clothing. 01:54:32
For what they're doing. 01:54:35
Enforcement of this or the. 01:54:38
How they're making it work so it's not over burdensome on their staff because. 01:54:41
Concord Heights probably a similar. 01:54:45
Building Draper. 01:54:46
Still. 01:54:49
So I could see that being. 01:54:51
More burdens. This is how they're doing it, so it's not. 01:54:54
Physically problematic student enforcement growth. 01:54:57
Thursday. 01:55:00
Because Top Limits is really proud of their. 01:55:09
Lighting. 01:55:12
You're being serious on their Planning Commission meeting today. 01:55:17
Made a point to tell her that it's that they're. 01:55:23
They're lighting rather. 01:55:25
Are you telling you want to meet him by the flagpole? 01:55:29
Is reviewed by both the Design Review Board and. 01:55:46
All based upon provisional lighting. 01:55:52
Standards of professionals to design those plans. 01:55:54
And you're getting and that's what the result you're saying. 01:55:57
Yeah. Well, but yeah, that's a pretty focused geographical area. Yeah, commercial, because we're primarily hung up on residence. 01:56:02
Tell them that. 01:56:14
All right. That's fair. Well, thanks John. I appreciate that that was. 01:56:20
A lot of work I hope we got from there. 01:56:25
Yeah, yeah. 01:56:29
All right, so this is the. 01:56:33
The full review of all our thought. 01:56:37
Over the course of the year, right? 01:56:40
One at a time, yeah, something like that. 01:56:42
So we're candid 11. Yeah, We just want to walk you through. 01:56:45
Sort of in a speed dating way than. 01:56:49
Changes at clothing. 01:56:51
Starting first with Title 10. 01:56:54
This one has a significant number of changes. 01:56:57
But when you look at them closely. 01:57:00
What we're doing is adopting by reference a number of state fund provisions for the criminal. 01:57:03
It's an ease of reference. 01:57:09
Position for our police officers, they already cite to the state code on these criminal offenses. 01:57:12
We don't cite city ordinances. 01:57:17
And so we're trying to. 01:57:19
It's not a wholesale adoption of the state Criminal Code, but it approaches that. 01:57:22
We changed the title of the whole. 01:57:27
Title of title 10 to conform with current law. More contemporary references. 01:57:29
We've added definitions and severability sections in that first chapter. 01:57:34
And then as you go through these specific sections. 01:57:38
Like in Chapter 2, we deal with interference with public officers. 01:57:43
We've done an adoption of state code provisions because they are consistent with the way that we are standards and the way you 01:57:47
cite things. 01:57:51
So that one more fits into that mode. 01:57:55
And the offensively stories put it in with that. 01:57:58
When we talk about. 01:58:01
Interference with these officers and doing their duties, we've made a fairly good adoption to take other citizens and taken away 01:58:05
our separate city elements references for those. 01:58:10
That'll make it easier for our police officers. 01:58:15
The same thing is true with the bodily harm offenses like assault and battery with telephone harassment. 01:58:17
They were adopting the state code references there because that's more consistent with the way they're cited now. 01:58:23
In the gambling section. 01:58:30
We have retained our provisions that talk about the seizure and sale of property. 01:58:32
That we may take through the rest that relate to gambling operations. 01:58:38
How often that happened here, Holiday chief. 01:58:43
We've left them in for safety, say. 01:58:48
I don't know that. 01:58:50
Cities like Holiday very often pursue Forker Church. 01:58:52
For criminal offenses, but it gives us the opportunity if we leave this in there. 01:58:56
It was the sort of do that. 01:59:00
Again. 01:59:04
We are adopting by reference in Chapter 4 of the sex offenses provision to the state code. 01:59:07
Those change fairly often. 01:59:13
At the common law level and then through the state code. 01:59:17
And so our adoption of the state code there, I think will serve to keep us more current. 01:59:20
And it does again. Just keep making things easier on police officers. 01:59:26
The we have kept sections from our city code. 01:59:31
Relating to sexually oriented businesses and particularly. 01:59:36
Any that? 01:59:41
I guess sort of. 01:59:44
Tailor their operations to minors. 01:59:45
And we like our provisions and the terminology of our provision therapies. 01:59:48
And I guess the additional protection may add. 01:59:52
We've looked at those closely. We think they are perfectly legal and so we're comfortable staying with our language there. 01:59:56
Odd. Sorry real quick. 02:00:03
Do we know why you know? 02:00:05
This section 10 points. 02:00:06
04010 is highlighted. 02:00:08
And we still have questions on that for some reason or? 02:00:11
10.04 Yeah, the adult toys. 02:00:14
Oh, it shouldn't be highlighted anymore. 02:00:19
OK. It's we didn't have any questions. OK. I suspect that was OK. 02:00:21
I have a thing on my office working on. 02:00:28
OK, OK. I just wanted to make sure that was. 02:00:30
OK, Yeah. 02:00:34
The targeted residential picketing section that we adopted back. 02:00:40
Around the onset of the COVID pandemic. 02:00:44
We've gone to reference the state code. Now, when we first adopted that, I don't know that there was a state code provision that 02:00:47
matched that. 02:00:50
There is now and it's consistent with what the city adopted by the ordinance. And so we're. 02:00:54
Adopting that by organs and state code. 02:01:00
In the disorderly conduct section. 02:01:04
We have maintained some provisions from our code. 02:01:06
And we've done it for the added protection of schools. 02:01:10
And to be honest with you, you've got. 02:01:13
Another schools and holiday, and we like the idea of keeping those provisions there. 02:01:15
They would like to be unlocked on, you know, education institutions, consumption and possession of wealth and alcohol products in 02:01:20
public place out of those two parks and the schools in some respect. 02:01:25
And then the loitering and the camping and the fighting sections we left in at a specific request of Chief Oil. 02:01:30
There are certain parts of those that we use in the city. 02:01:36
In a way that. 02:01:41
Is not inconsistent with the state code, but adds some protections. 02:01:43
For our citizens. And so we're still OK. Like we step on Blue Moon Festival for instance, right? OK. 02:01:46
Or not what you do there in your festival like permit where you operate. 02:01:53
Begging is illegal. 02:02:00
It has some constitutional protection to it. Stopped. 02:02:04
And so we're careful and really we do that, but our camping ordinances now. 02:02:08
For a number of reasons. 02:02:13
That relate to. 02:02:15
The homelessness funding and the assessments of cities and so maintaining that ordinance is important and soon. 02:02:18
Right. 02:02:24
The sheep likes the fighting one because it. 02:02:28
Helps us get two people going at each other and. 02:02:30
And I've been about this. 02:02:33
Yeah. 02:02:39
OK. 02:02:42
And I I'll be honest with you, I'm looking at copyright's not. 02:02:44
Necessarily highlighted so. 02:02:47
What happened there? 02:02:49
Sometimes our version of. 02:02:51
The word processing in the cities isn't always the same. 02:02:53
When we look at the property damage chapter again, we without the state club sections, but we have gone through and retained from 02:02:59
the ordinance provisions that. 02:03:03
We think added additional protection for the city. This isn't the section where we're highly creating the state code so we can do 02:03:08
that. 02:03:11
You have specific. 02:03:16
Specific municipal authority to regulate some of these things and so. 02:03:17
We've left some of our. 02:03:21
I guess less traditional, but operative provisions in that section that we like. 02:03:25
Honestly. 02:03:32
Yes, we've we've left that in. 02:03:33
Juveniles are created. 02:03:37
Right. And so? 02:03:39
We'd like a little bit of more expensive. 02:03:41
And broad ability to site for a particular act where you might look at the state code to say, I don't know if that's. 02:03:44
That's one of the reasons why we stayed with our own language through Center. 02:03:51
We do have a. 02:03:57
A section that prohibits putting leaflets on Arch. 02:03:59
Some parking lines. 02:04:02
That's not necessarily regulated well by the state. Not clearly anyway. 02:04:04
I like that prohibition, I think. 02:04:08
So that's still in. 02:04:13
Even some of the other more sort of changes. 02:04:15
We have retained the. 02:04:19
Provision that. 02:04:22
Permits businesses. 02:04:24
To refuse service if somebody can't show valid proof of age. 02:04:26
For alcohol or tobacco. 02:04:30
There is a similar provision in state code, chief. I don't recall why we maintain this one here, you know. 02:04:33
I remember discussing it. 02:04:42
In the meeting we had, I don't remember the reason and I didn't. 02:04:44
People know about why we left it in that stuff. 02:04:47
I don't know why we would have either. I mean, especially where it's right, but it's not, it's not materially different than the 02:04:49
state coach based on the problem. We'll look at that one more time and decide if we're going to. 02:04:54
I stood out. 02:05:00
We kept your curfew provisions. 02:05:05
I think they are a little bit. 02:05:08
More clear than the state law provisions are, and you have authority to regulate that to. The extension may go beyond the state 02:05:10
code. 02:05:13
They're permitted to do that in this way. 02:05:17
Your curfew, minors for minors under 16 and your custodial liability sections are not unusual. 02:05:20
A lot of cities have provisions like that. 02:05:27
I don't think they're enforced very often. I don't think they're. 02:05:30
Used very often, but I think they could be useful in certain circumstances. 02:05:34
The exceptions that are in there are drawn well. 02:05:38
And they're tight enough that I think they cover the situation for you. What's the difference between 010 and 020? It says hours 02:05:41
of 1:00 AM to 5:00 AM. 02:05:46
There is one to five, and then under 16 is 11 to five. Yeah, 15. Which ones? 1:00 AM to 5:00. 02:05:52
16 and 17 year old. 02:06:04
Under 18. 02:06:06
Oh, I see. So if you're above 16 or 16 or older, you can. 02:06:08
Gotcha. OK. 02:06:14
Yeah. 02:06:15
The failure to supervise a minor. 02:06:21
Some of the offenses that are in the state code provisions related to that we've adopted by reference, some we have left in. 02:06:25
I think that's kind of for the communities and our police officers for the way we've cited that section, correct? 02:06:31
So. 02:06:37
We've used the city code to cite those, and so we've stayed with those. 02:06:38
In this case. 02:06:41
The defenses are. 02:06:47
New, but they're consistent with the state code is phrased a little bit differently. 02:06:49
In the weapons section. 02:06:54
This is one of those. 02:06:56
Situations where we have to walk carefully. 02:06:59
In the regulation of. 02:07:02
Of weapons. 02:07:04
On the liability of the custodian of a minor. 02:07:06
That section is. 02:07:09
Currently legally valid. 02:07:11
I haven't heard anything that would necessarily change that circulating right now. 02:07:14
I think it's a good provision to have given. 02:07:18
You know, contemporary events. 02:07:21
And so I. 02:07:23
The section says in addition, penalties in the state color custodian personal control of any minor who allows the minor to possess 02:07:27
a dangerous weapon. 02:07:30
Is liable for any damages caused by the miners use of the dangerous way. 02:07:34
It's a. 02:07:38
From a policy standpoint, it's not an unusual provision right now and I think. 02:07:41
Any contemporary events? It's probably. 02:07:45
And then your discharge of a weapon within city limits section. 02:07:50
You are specifically permitted to regulate this by the state code. You are specifically restricted in how you. 02:07:55
Regulate this under the state code and this provision sticks with them the state codes. 02:08:02
Restrictions so. 02:08:06
Any firearms? 02:08:09
Is that BB guns? Pellet guns? What does it mean? Yeah. 02:08:12
And it is one of your neighbors, Rob was talking about shooting squirrels with his pellet gun in your neighborhood, so I wondered. 02:08:17
That's a Is that illegal? 02:08:24
Yeah, Airsoft I. 02:08:27
I've been on a call, not in holiday but where a neighbor kid took a BB to the temple and almost died. 02:08:30
That this is interesting and I just love to have a follow up conversation because I status force had been read a bill today about 02:08:38
hunting and you know, we can't close the city to hunting. 02:08:44
And the squirrels are actually called out specifically as something that is allowed. 02:08:50
So I don't know how we're doing this without firearms. I just love to have that like conversation. 02:08:56
It's HP 309. 02:09:04
They are no. 02:09:13
No, they're not. 02:09:14
Because they're air. 02:09:16
Airsoft. 02:09:21
Those ones are OK. 02:09:22
They're OK, BB guns, they're OK. 02:09:24
BB guns generally did not fall under that provision. 02:09:28
Metal, metal versus metal Their metal bullet, metal projectiles as metal projectile. 02:09:33
Regardless of the company. 02:09:39
2nd but I mean, that's almost. 02:09:42
Impossible. I mean without them going and refiring to go to that gym. 02:09:46
Circumstances cause. 02:09:51
They can. 02:09:53
But we could for example on this. 02:09:56
Discharge we could. 02:09:58
Modify it to be if somebody was primitive for a fever, for example. 02:10:00
Permit. The problem is is you can't trap them very effectively because. 02:10:25
Of the risk of dogs that will. 02:10:29
Cloud in the trap, but. 02:10:32
He will come and shoot them. 02:10:34
He said in this case. 02:10:36
I don't know if it's just I had several constituents that were prepared and wanting trees and stuff like that they wanted to set 02:10:39
up. 02:10:42
And and. 02:10:46
That's something I'd want to look at before we decided what to do with that. 02:10:49
Statute. 02:10:53
And then we have an. 02:10:58
The very end, the sections that we are adopted by references to that. 02:11:00
So if you have any specific questions about Title 10. 02:11:06
Other than the one that. 02:11:12
So the interference of the glucose server. 02:11:17
We're just tracking the state. 02:11:20
We are tracking the state code. We review some of our own language. We've retained a little bit other than certain sections. 02:11:21
That the chief specifically requested. 02:11:27
They ever and Chief, I think I've got this one right, but overtime that's one section where we have cited the city ordinance. 02:11:29
And not just to the state vote division. So we're trying to keep that for the. 02:11:36
And what what if he decided wanting to finish? 02:11:41
And by and large, on that one in particular, we. 02:11:44
Probably 9090% of the time we're tracking on the state code when we start assembly with that. 02:11:49
But that interfering with a police officer is. 02:11:54
Your or what? Everybody knows there's a business arrest. 02:11:57
Is generally into deprecation of that, so everybody. 02:12:00
Image under arrest and they don't comply. That's interfering with that. 02:12:03
That everybody understands that that's a lot better. 02:12:08
Management, yeah, so as. 02:12:12
Is that every year somebody in your office is just reviewing that And we do try to, we do try to track and pick that. Your 02:12:18
prosecutor does a little bit of that also. 02:12:22
And Chief Oil's office. 02:12:28
Item also. 02:12:31
And objects. 02:12:32
What happens more often than not as opposed to the actual? 02:12:35
Citation number in the state code changing the substance of it changes a little bit. 02:12:40
Which doesn't require a change to it. 02:12:46
Or anything for the reason reference to it, yeah. 02:12:47
And then moving to Title 11. 02:12:52
We have adopted far less of this with sort of a wholesale import from the state code. 02:12:54
These are your traffic offenses as a general rule. 02:13:00
And so. 02:13:03
The wholesale adoption of the state code is not. 02:13:04
As significant as. 02:13:09
What you saw in Title 10. 02:13:11
In the definition section we have a couple of definitions worth. 02:13:13
We've changed with the alley definition. We're going back to the state code, but. 02:13:18
The low profile motorized vehicle definition we are adding. 02:13:22
In fact, not interested. 02:13:26
There is not a definition. 02:13:29
There is one more for your now. 02:13:34
Electric. 02:13:38
Vehicle Twitter out there like bicycle electric vehicle. 02:13:39
And that looks further down, but we've added that will come up a little bit further down later. 02:13:43
Yeah. 02:13:47
The low profile motorized vehicles are a real danger. 02:13:50
Yeah, which scares and so, yeah, so. 02:13:53
Added some regulation. 02:13:57
That is that still when you say you're out of that like that is brand New London paper for and we're expecting. 02:13:59
Have similar language to that one and I think our language. 02:14:08
He said it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 02:14:15
Say again, I think you are freaks. Regulation. 02:14:17
So those little more people are, we're not allowing them. Or would it be unless they are? 02:14:22
Meet the regulation to be registered, not. 02:14:30
So just like a motorcycle then where you go get a registered? 02:14:35
You're right down the street. They would have to meet the same criteria. They can get a license plate. 02:14:39
And I think the other stipulation we have in there is that they have to have assurance. 02:14:43
I'd like further dialogue on them. 02:14:48
No way insurance. 02:14:52
So would you like further conversation tonight or I don't know, is tonight the night to do it? 02:15:00
Yeah, so. 02:15:09
You remember where we put this? I tried to just do it right? 02:15:11
Page. 02:15:15
Both I think. I think rather have the conversation. 02:15:19
Page 25. 02:15:24
11 and 25 below profiles on Page 3. 02:15:25
And that's a definition for the actual prohibition itself. Page 11. 02:15:29
Yeah, it's 11. 02:15:38
Dot 12.020. 02:15:40
In my draft, you see it. 02:15:43
11:35. 02:15:46
11 dot 12.0215. 02:15:48
I sent this too. Dirt of you not ready yet. 02:15:55
We are putting in some active transportation past in the near future. 02:15:58
39th and. 02:16:03
2:15. 02:16:04
Highland Drive. 02:16:06
We're just curious if this would also impact that. 02:16:07
This prohibition is really brought. 02:16:25
It takes them out of not just the public streets, but public place parks. 02:16:27
So sorry, 11 by 12.020 right, right, yes. 02:16:36
And the definition will. 02:16:41
The definition stricken because it's moved to the definition, but under that the prohibition. 02:16:43
Violation and so this would mean that. 02:16:54
Every electric scooter. 02:16:57
Yeah, I think this is crazy, personally. 02:17:01
I don't think so. We've got cars and you've got bicycles and they're both allowed. 02:17:05
Now you've got this middle ground. 02:17:10
Where it's electrified. 02:17:12
Bicycle. Welcome to 21st. You've got motorcycles and those are plated, so you're talking about. 02:17:14
Like electric scooters and stuff. 02:17:20
So, yeah, so this is probably worthy of a little discussion. Is this bad? There are so many different classifications of all these 02:17:22
different. 02:17:27
Electric. 02:17:32
For lack of veteran electric vehicles, yeah, you got the guys right. There's the bikes, you know, wheel things, and there's a 02:17:33
whole lot of different. 02:17:37
There are end class. 02:17:42
Yeah. And then the three of the 28. 02:17:46
And then there's restrictions on. 02:17:49
Which page and write those and. 02:17:52
Not in this one specifically. That's. 02:17:57
There's another section later on that we reference state statute. 02:17:59
More specific for electric vehicles. 02:18:03
Or for electric. 02:18:07
Electric vehicles are better. 02:18:09
Terms explained. 02:18:10
It's further down. 02:18:12
But this is not E bikes, this is. 02:18:14
This is a low profile vehicle and scooters. 02:18:17
Sorry, there's there's some of these. 02:18:20
I mean, you've seen it look just like a motorcycle they're out riding that are just electric and surrounds. 02:18:24
What do they call it that can mean those? 02:18:30
That's the one where you're at the footplate 1. 02:18:33
Versus the one you melt like a motorcycle. 02:18:38
Or like a Vespa. 02:18:41
And scooter is pretty broad definition, it can be just a standard bike. 02:18:43
I don't know. I know, I know that I. 02:18:50
I don't want to. 02:18:54
Discount challenge that I've sorted is for officers that are doing states issues and all of that but at the same time. 02:18:56
I just. 02:19:02
I'm more concerned about the age. 02:19:05
People on these. 02:19:06
Because if you have a. 02:19:08
Not that 16 year olds are terribly bright as I have on myself, but like I see 16 year olds on these and then I also see like 11 02:19:11
girls. 02:19:15
On these And that's a good girl. 02:19:19
For me that's. 02:19:23
Sorry, I'm just showing you there. I think it's. 02:19:27
That's that. 02:19:32
And the hard part for us, to be honest, especially this last fall, I don't know what prompted, we started getting a lot of 02:19:39
complaints about. 02:19:43
And especially up here, we see a lot of these and I think. 02:19:47
I can't put a thumb on what area, I mean there's so many different variations of these. 02:19:50
Motorized type vehicles that are electric and we're getting tons of complaints of and you've got every age I mean I had. 02:19:54
One day a kid that I was going on Holiday Blvd. and he's on something. He's going faster than I am going up and I'm doing the 02:20:01
speed limit down Holiday Blvd. He's passing me on the right on some be something. 02:20:06
Yeah, you know, and that's the hard part because we don't really have buzzing around the cul-de-sac versus Murray Holiday Rd. 02:20:12
Exactly, you know, and so how do you even out at my house, out by my house about. 02:20:20
West Jordan. 02:20:25
Just this last fall, I mean, I had six people that took over 5600 W on these and wouldn't let anybody. They just. 02:20:27
Swarmed it, took it over. 02:20:33
So. 02:20:36
Big enforcing. 02:20:37
Most, I mean, a lot of it's going to be education. 02:20:40
You know, especially in the beginning because people are going to know and then if this is adopted. 02:20:43
It's going to be education, but then it will start for. 02:20:48
Resort to citations after an education period. 02:20:50
It's really hard because I get to think about it. 02:20:57
But at the same time I see like Bluetooth. 02:21:00
10 and 11 year olds writing a smoothie down the street and. 02:21:03
You still know where we're gonna? 02:21:06
What are we gonna do about that? 02:21:08
And that's where discretion comes into it. I mean, are we going to really write a 10 year old a ticket for right right down the 02:21:10
street, you know, and in a residential area? 02:21:15
Versus somebody that like I was just. 02:21:20
Referring to the kid that's writing. 02:21:22
Whatever. 02:21:25
I don't even know what it was something. 02:21:27
Makeshift E bike type of a thing but was going past me on the right down there. You know somebody like that that's. 02:21:29
That's a speeding violation. Yeah, right. What I would love to see is to see. 02:21:35
As far as the law is concerned. 02:21:40
Is that happen? Address the behaviors, not necessarily the. 02:21:42
And so whether it's speeding or erratic. 02:21:46
Out in the road a little bit lower. 02:21:49
Something that creates an unsafe condition. 02:21:51
Then I don't have an issue. 02:21:54
We also have to figure out what types of vehicles need to be. 02:21:56
License plated and insured because that that line, that's a grayer area. 02:21:59
Yes, because where because you've used to be very clear, we had to get bicycles and you had cars and now you've got. 02:22:04
Everything. Everything in between so. 02:22:12
Where do you draw the line now between what needs to be licensed and insured? 02:22:15
And if it's licensed and insured, then you better have a driver's license. 02:22:20
That that line has got to be the same too. 02:22:23
When it's not dead, winter. 02:22:32
You have a lot of kids riding these. 02:22:33
Little electric scooters up the hill. 02:22:36
To school and that saved the parents from. 02:22:39
You know, driving them. So, yeah. So what side of the line is that on? So. But then you got golf carts too, and fun. 02:22:43
It teaches. 02:22:51
Necessarily teaches them responsibility and to some extent, I mean, there's just all kinds of stuff. 02:22:53
My personal take on this is I would not stick this in here. I think it. 02:22:58
I think we should talk about it more. 02:23:02
Come up again. My personal favorite. Come up with something that addresses the behaviors that are a problem. 02:23:04
And there potentially I think it points its own public hearing also wouldn't extend the ability for a 12 year old to go drive your 02:23:10
car. 02:23:14
No, but I would buy a scooter. 02:23:20
Yeah. But all I'm saying is where do you draw the line? Does the line need to move now because you have such a larger range of 02:23:22
vehicle options now didn't have? 02:23:27
Ten years ago. 02:23:32
Or do you still say what's the definition of the Carnet because? 02:23:33
Yeah, that's right. Fully electric cars net, yeah, that's where I think you could stick with the relates to E bike the standard. 02:23:36
Define. 02:23:44
Maybe there could be some that a lot of those lines and then. 02:23:46
But again, I think. 02:23:49
Speed limit is really good. 02:23:50
The defining factor, right? 02:23:52
I mean, because I think our conversation on this issue was things that looked really tough to see for people in low profile. 02:23:55
But how does that differ from a kid right now bike? 02:24:07
They're so low. 02:24:11
The speed. 02:24:15
Like so signatic. 02:24:18
Yeah, yeah. But I don't know. 02:24:19
I mean, on some of these motorized bikes, when you're talking to some of these pocket bikes, you get these little. 02:24:21
Little mini bullet bikes that are out there that. 02:24:26
You won't even see some of those that are out there and again it comes into the classifications. 02:24:30
Told them. 02:24:35
Adjust this because I think that Ty has a point that we want to address. 02:24:40
Well, I mean, to me it's it's. 02:24:46
At what point does it cross the line in terms of affecting public safety? Because. 02:24:49
I think where Ty is coming from is it's not. 02:24:55
It's like golf carts. We had the big deal with golf carts in our neighborhood. We finally said look. 02:24:59
These parents know the kids are riding these golf carts and they and. 02:25:04
That as long as they understand if something happens, they're liable. 02:25:08
For a kid, an underage kid driving. 02:25:12
Because it is illegal in our city, but it is illegal. It's illegal in our city, but we're not going to be out there actively 02:25:15
enforcing kids. 02:25:19
You know we're going to have police officers patrolling neighborhoods looking for kids driving in golf carts. 02:25:24
And I told a number of people I'm like. 02:25:29
You want to let your 12 year old drive a golf cart and they get the wreck or they hurt somebody, you're liable. 02:25:32
And that's where this is. It's. 02:25:40
The people that complain to me. 02:25:42
Want us to? 02:25:44
Enforce what should be a parental responsibility on those kids. 02:25:47
And where is that line is the question is. 02:25:54
Where is the? Where is the line from? 02:25:58
Them wanting to. 02:26:00
Outlaw something that they should be controlling with their kids and that creating a public safety issue. 02:26:02
For the residents of the city. 02:26:09
I don't know what that is, but. 02:26:11
Well, maybe it goes back to point that it's. 02:26:13
It's about the behavior. So if they're driving. 02:26:15
They're speeding or they're driving erratically. 02:26:18
Which is uh. 02:26:21
That the kids that I see like. 02:26:22
They can be responsible. 02:26:26
I don't think even one of our officers is going to stop a couple of kids right there. Most Peters little 2 wheeled. 02:26:29
You know which is which is fair, but the thing I hate to have was. 02:26:40
Hate to have lies. 02:26:44
Let me just turn one night to, you know, right, We're gonna have a lot. 02:26:45
Exactly. That teaches a little bit, right? No, I don't district disrespectful. I don't disagree at all. 02:26:49
Statute ordinances like this have a place because when something does go terribly wrong. 02:26:59
It firmly puts the issue of liability on the parents. 02:27:05
I mean, if there's nothing in the statute, then the parents could turn around and sue the. 02:27:12
The card that hit the kid, even if the kid and all, was completely a fault I think. 02:27:18
You know, from an enforcement. 02:27:24
Point of view, I think that's kind of where I am is. 02:27:25
Maybe it's a? 02:27:29
We don't look at it as a coordinates that's never going to get enforced. We're going to look at as an ordinance that will. 02:27:31
Established liability when that's needed, the rights of way issue, you know, because generally pedestrians and cyclists have right 02:27:36
of way over cars. But then what are these grey area vehicles? 02:27:41
Recyclers are they? 02:27:46
Same as a vehicle, how do you treat? So my concern time is that. 02:27:49
Is it takes on a difference so? 02:27:53
Angle in the. 02:27:57
The ground shifted beneath our feet from a few years ago because of the product set. Yeah, for sure. And so that's I think is 02:27:58
what's worthy of discussion that the. 02:28:02
There's no longer a bright line between. 02:28:07
Cars and bicycles. 02:28:10
And that's where. 02:28:12
You need to figure out where the line is now because there's a big Gray area. 02:28:15
Car and bike and what should be licensed and insured? 02:28:19
What is it? Gross weight? 02:28:23
Because, you know, you get a kid. 02:28:25
Driving a heavy duty. 02:28:27
Quasi car bike. 02:28:30
They can do a lot of damage. 02:28:32
And so is that something that should be? 02:28:33
An insured and licensed product. 02:28:36
And I don't know what. 02:28:38
Is that a little teeny scooter? No. 02:28:39
But like I say, there's a broad product set between what was a car and a bike, and that was my only. 02:28:42
It used to be very easy for us before the world came around. 02:28:48
If it was under 50CC's they'd have to be registered. They were. It was easy to know. 02:28:53
Right, you know, and everything had those modifications or those markings on it, but we could know very easily if. 02:28:58
If a motorcycle or a scooter type thing was legal or not but. 02:29:03
We don't. 02:29:09
It's so convoluted for us. We just. 02:29:10
And that's the issue. 02:29:14
What was the question? 02:29:17
The investment state, I've not heard discussion. 02:29:19
This two years. 02:29:22
It was three years ago, I think, when they hit the golf cart. 02:29:24
Thing and the golf cart one just basically says. 02:29:27
Unless a city adopts an ordinance specifically allowing for golf carts, they're illegal. 02:29:31
Yeah. 02:29:37
What are other things? 02:29:39
We lifted this from milk cake. 02:29:42
And there is like I said, there's further down in this it gets more specific into the E world and there's an actually a state 02:29:45
statute that we. 02:29:48
There's that in there. 02:29:52
And if that's awesome, Pellisses ebikes understand. 02:29:54
Yeah, it gets. 02:29:57
I'm trying to remember where 26, is that what it was? I think it was difficult towards the end. 02:29:59
Well, I don't know. 02:30:13
I'm just. 02:30:15
Your libertarian roots. 02:30:21
Sprouting a branch. Well, I was a kid that grew up riding my motorcycle up and down. 02:30:25
And it was the way I got to my fence and it was a big, huge, long, ugly hill to go up there and. 02:30:31
I've got a six year old. 02:30:36
Ride a bike as well as anybody in this room in. 02:30:38
Is that anyway? 02:30:42
It's just I don't know. 02:30:45
I don't, I hate. 02:30:47
I want kids to be outside. I want them to play. I want them to learn responsibility. I want them to learn limits. I want, you 02:30:49
know, all, all the things. 02:30:52
Society today. 02:30:56
Is down with all this stuff and he's it's just killjoys, you know, it's like. 02:30:58
So. But the limits are all set by the parent. There's no public safety limit. 02:31:03
I think again. 02:31:09
No, there is a public safety limit, absolutely. 02:31:11
Fee limits and what people, I think it's reasonable to say what what does a person need to get on the bike? 02:31:13
You know, under human power, I guess. 02:31:21
Probably not the most different thing. 02:31:25
Acceleration. 02:31:28
Can you talk about speed loads and, like, breathless striping? Yeah. 02:31:31
Yeah, I mean on the golf cart thing, I think of my neighbor Josh told us and told you guys remember watching. He was. 02:31:35
His parents. 02:31:45
You know he would drive super slowly on the side with very respectful. 02:31:46
And it's like, why should we? 02:31:50
Different from being able to do that. 02:31:53
Well, they don't have the same judgment. 02:31:57
I mean, even if they're you're teaching them sums up. 02:31:59
I used to feed children at this game of church because the dog. 02:32:03
Thumbed out pretty much. 02:32:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're also just the safety features of the vehicles. You've got street legal and not street legal. 02:32:12
And what type of vehicle is required to have street legal lighting? 02:32:19
And what ones aren't? 02:32:24
So the little, the little green, you know, Lime scooters aren't going to have full street legal, you know, blinkers and such. 02:32:26
But you know, I know in my neighborhood there's a lot of. 02:32:33
There's a bunch of golf courts. 02:32:36
And I don't mind the golf cart so much, except that. 02:32:37
Frequently you'll have. 02:32:40
A group of 12 year olds hanging off a golf cart. 02:32:41
After dark and it's not lit and that's a behavioral. 02:32:44
Yeah, but it's also public safety issue. 02:32:48
Those those. Like I said, those are the types of things I like to see. 02:32:54
And not necessarily the. 02:32:59
Active responsibly. 02:33:00
You know. 02:33:02
Thanks. I mean today's scooter, AE scooter and today's E bike and yesterday's you know, BMX bike and whatever and I just. 02:33:04
So. 02:33:12
It would be rough through the council like us to go back and try and refine this. 02:33:16
A little more and bring it back to you. 02:33:22
Or are you comfortable with the language as it is? 02:33:25
I know we're tires. 02:33:32
If I'm alone, know that. 02:33:35
That's OK, no idea that. 02:33:37
I get your points, don't. 02:33:44
Like somewhere between? 02:33:46
Nothing. Umm. 02:33:48
Not allowed and everything. 02:33:50
Well, and I'm again. 02:33:52
Everything I'm. 02:33:54
Responsible behavior, but how do you codify that? 02:33:56
What is this? A low profile vehicle? 02:34:01
This clarified from you, our low Prof. 02:34:05
Vehicle is the way this is written. 02:34:08
Any motorized vehicle that is not regulated by the state or any other city or its provision. 02:34:13
Is not otherwise permitted upon city. Oh, so this is the I'm sorry, I'm confused because it's flying out right? So. 02:34:18
It just. 02:34:24
I see. So it's basically saying. 02:34:28
Yeah, gotcha. And that's what your issue is, is? 02:34:30
You just think that's way too broad. 02:34:33
Well, if I want to characterize the route, I'm very sure that both the definitions. 02:34:36
Do you think the brochure? 02:34:42
Thank you. 02:34:45
Yeah, again, I would like to see the legislation look at. 02:34:47
Irresponsible behaviors and address that. 02:34:51
Can I suggest something? 02:34:54
I haven't heard tremendous discomfort from the Western Council on this, but I have heard willingness to consider Ty's points. 02:34:56
Ty, do you want to? 02:35:03
Talk with me and work through something that you think is a better proposal. 02:35:04
That we can bring back to the council. I love that. Yeah. And I look for some resources. I'm asking. There's some things out 02:35:09
there. 02:35:13
I'd be happy to research some other cities ordinances as well, or see if there's some other. 02:35:18
Bottom 2 To Jared's point, American General separating notepads, they're going to come into the city. 02:35:24
Prohibiting something like that. 02:35:31
As you enter into the boundary, if they're on a separate bike path, we can. 02:35:33
Automatic and then you actually. 02:35:38
If there were amusement in the undesignated route. 02:35:42
So for purposes of moving this along, why don't we? 02:35:46
Do that. 02:35:48
One of the other issues that I just wanted to. 02:35:50
Talk to you shortly. The high level. There have been places in our traffic code where. 02:35:53
Their designation of authority of Cincinnati City Engineer. Some designations of authority of the city manager. 02:35:56
We've made some. 02:36:02
I think I would call in conscious decisions of where to go city engineering, where to go city manager. 02:36:04
We've sort of tried to hit those points at a policy level where. 02:36:09
You know, we think. 02:36:14
War against refined policy calls. We want those to rest. Let's see the United dirty. 02:36:16
But always on the traffic issues with the advice of the city engineer. 02:36:21
So if you haven't paid attention to that in the draft, we think it's a good thing to do that, make sure we get the balance right. 02:36:25
Things we have. 02:36:32
But if you would watch that most of the time. 02:36:34
With sort of more technical. 02:36:37
In Chapter 2, the traffic control regulations, there are very few changes there. 02:36:48
Generally is a section of this now, but one thing I do want to highlight for you. 02:36:55
You have a provision in your traffic code that allows a city to create. 02:36:59
Truck routes. 02:37:05
Which is. 02:37:07
A way of sort of channeling heavy truck traffic within the city in certain ways. 02:37:08
I guess. 02:37:16
To say this the best way I can. 02:37:17
We think. 02:37:19
We've got that section. 02:37:20
In the code. 02:37:22
We think it needs some further follow up. 02:37:23
That will be proposing. 02:37:26
Probably some supporting information. 02:37:29
Gather and and. 02:37:31
Presented the council that would bolster that section of it and think that 19 working. 02:37:34
There's some significant development that may be occurring outside of your city boundaries but affecting holiday. 02:37:47
That would use major thoroughfares like WAS, Edge Blvd. 02:37:53
And we'd like to keep those heavy trucks. 02:37:56
Off of some of those sections of loss absolutely think they could do some damage to. 02:38:00
And that would be really disruptive to our residents, so. 02:38:04
We want to look at how it's 1/4. 02:38:08
The existing truck growth we have designated a little bit. 02:38:10
More fully and better. 02:38:14
To write something that is important by the future. 02:38:16
In the Drastic chapter 12. 02:38:20
The sections that are there are. 02:38:23
Pretty much the same as they exist now. 02:38:25
The new traffic card. 02:38:27
In the speed limit section. 02:38:30
We have made some updated references to the state code about changing a substance we've. 02:38:32
Address the city Manager and city engineer distinction in some of those sections. 02:38:37
But otherwise, the regulations don't look much different. 02:38:41
In chapter 20. 02:38:45
There are very few changes again. 02:38:47
And they're not substantive in nature for the most part. 02:38:50
I know that we've had some complaints and some. 02:38:57
Other questions about making it illegal to. 02:39:00
And I think that's something maybe that's. 02:39:07
So maybe when they seem to start? 02:39:10
Tonight, but and we have that on the agenda for our work session discussion next. 02:39:12
On the sense. 02:39:19
We have. 02:39:25
Deleted a large section. 02:39:27
That's, you know, your parking prohibitions and specific areas. We have afforded the state code provision there. 02:39:29
I think that's helpful both practically and politically. 02:39:36
Sometimes you don't. Parking manipulation. 02:39:40
Yeah, something. 02:39:42
I think of reference to sleep confirmation that sometimes is helpful. 02:39:44
Just into the broader planning reference. 02:39:49
And what we imported was I got to the let you. 02:39:51
It's not different. 02:39:55
So your neighborhood parking program? 02:39:56
We have brought in just as it exists now. 02:40:00
That around the current colony area and. 02:40:03
We've had some discussion about whether there are things we could do to strengthen that and whether we need to strengthen that. I 02:40:06
think we're taking an additional look at it, but right now. 02:40:11
That's just being brought in here. 02:40:16
As it exists now. 02:40:18
John, I thought we didn't talk. 02:40:19
Neighborhood parking program. 02:40:25
That you can't park on dirt in your front yard. 02:40:27
The safe and parking by getting right there, that was the next. 02:40:34
112145. 02:40:39
This is the section that has been requested by members of the Council. 02:40:42
It addresses a code enforcement problem that. 02:40:47
Has occurred, I guess I would say spades in my neighborhood. 02:40:50
But it's recurring. 02:40:54
114511. 02:40:56
18 by 145. 02:40:59
That may be 1 you want to pay attention to because that's a regulation do we haven't adopted that. 02:41:04
That doesn't exist in the code. That's not. So this is new, Yeah. So we should have highlighted that that should be different 02:41:10
because I don't. I don't know that, yeah. 02:41:13
Yeah, umm. 02:41:18
Yeah, yeah. 02:41:32
It will be helpful in the future as we. 02:41:33
Attending have more? 02:41:35
They've developed. 02:41:37
How about you get the chairs and both heavily on the side of the house test? 02:41:44
That's still required. 02:41:48
Yeah. So did you say that the landscaping ordinance? 02:41:49
Limits the. 02:41:53
That's great. Oh, that's great. That's great. Yeah. Nose. 02:41:56
Having this compact gravel and. 02:42:01
Something out of. 02:42:03
Yeah. So this is a little bit of a conflict. 02:42:05
Yeah, I was going to say so if somebody first. 02:42:08
Fresh granite through their whole front yard than they could. 02:42:11
Parked cars in their whole front yard. 02:42:15
That's what this one has relaxed. 02:42:17
Can we limit that? 02:42:20
That's what this section knows about that. 02:42:22
It's not. 02:42:27
Limiting the type of material it is limiting. 02:42:29
Parking. 02:42:34
To be on that material. 02:42:35
Yes, to be on the person. 02:42:39
Because I think this is saying if we have it all as compacted gravel, then we can put five cars in my. 02:42:46
That's my concern is there should be some. 02:42:55
Portion of the front yard that's actual landscaping. 02:42:58
Rather than making your whole front yard a parking lot. Yeah, there still is requirement for. 02:43:02
It's 50% requiring us to be. 02:43:09
That's good. OK. That's what I was asking. So that. 02:43:11
Perception by with. 02:43:15
Yeah, Yeah. I think that reference would be helpful. Are you going to, are you writing that? Yeah. 02:43:19
Since the enforcement Thursday. 02:43:32
Section on traffic and parking on school grounds is as it is. 02:43:40
We have adopted by reference to state provisions related to DUI. 02:43:48
With driving while intoxicated, that's how they're cited now. 02:43:53
And all the provisions related to that. 02:43:56
We've gathered by adoption. 02:44:00
So. 02:44:02
This is an area I want to revisit because I thought we were not loving this section if. 02:44:06
School enforcement that we wanted eliminated just the entire. 02:44:13
Yeah, Lane. 02:44:17
I don't know. That's not where I remember the end of the discussion. 02:44:19
So I might have just missed something. 02:44:22
Let's talk about that again, because yeah, I think we decided to. 02:44:26
About the meeting I met. 02:44:30
It may have been a meeting, yeah. 02:44:31
Yeah. 02:44:36
Bicycle cycles is not really bikes. 02:44:58
This isn't. This isn't having you buy stuff it doesn't. 02:45:01
Version that I sent you today. OK, that's. Yeah, that's just what Yeah. Is that not in here then? No, because you just sent it to 02:45:06
me today. Well, whatever I sent you to look at. 02:45:10
And that's not this version at all. 02:45:16
Because it had the reference to that state statute in there, we have that. 02:45:18
Is this? 02:45:25
Well, I know it's not whatever the version, I thank you today. Stephanie, add it in there, OK? 02:45:34
And I've got it. 02:45:42
Maybe we pause here because we've got a concrete, we've got a lot of different versions. 02:45:43
Would you ask me if you you raised? 02:45:49
It's a clean copy of it. You want a clean copy, Well, I mean another copy of 11 that incorporates all of that has all our changes. 02:45:55
The idling ordinances. 02:46:15
Driving myself and. 02:46:18
It has the same visions. 02:46:20
So where was that one? 02:46:24
That starts under age 37. 02:46:27
That's as we adopted a few years back. 02:46:34
So we'll review that on February 6th in the work session. I mean I would love to, I don't know what that your availability. 02:46:49
I don't see Idolino and that was brought up. I don't see the idling in this. 02:47:01
11:46. 02:47:10
3840 on page 38. OK, well, thank you. Thank you. 02:47:12
I just get back OK. 02:47:16
So I think what we'll do, I'm going to use the version that I set to the chief that he sent back to me. 02:47:18
'Cause that has everybody's red line. 02:47:23
Yeah, because this one, yeah. 02:47:26
We'll use that as the control copy. 02:47:30
And then I'll be on the same thing, OK? 02:47:32
Hopefully we can get. 02:47:36
Piping work on that language. 02:47:38
At that section. 02:47:41
And I'll just say I did it was quickly looking. It looks like that language mirrors West Valley as well as Mill Creeks. 02:47:46
So that may be. 02:47:54
Kind of standard municipal language right now. 02:47:57
Yeah, I knew we listened to it. 02:48:00
Fair enough. 02:48:07
Changes to. 02:48:32
It's not. It says that we're trying to enforce much of the. 02:48:39
These parents. 02:48:42
And maybe there's ways to address this? 02:48:46
You couldn't buy it versus what's a motorcycle? 02:48:49
I mean, if it's not a licensed vehicle, can you? 02:48:52
Basically say they're not allowed on. 02:48:55
Certain classes of roads. 02:48:57
And your authority to regulate the use of your streets at very. 02:49:00
Yeah, good thing I don't care about this. 02:49:08
6 year old. 02:49:12
Anyway. 02:49:19
So we should be able to include those in the. 02:49:22
Hopefully the work session on the 6th. 02:49:25
I hope so. I hope we can get into that, yeah. 02:49:28
If not, then we're. 02:49:32
Looking at February 27, so February 20th is going to be the retreat. 02:49:35
February 27 will be council meeting and then I think we have another council meeting which is. 02:49:39
So we try to get those in the work session and Chief. 02:49:45
Is the plan that we're going to have the new code enforcement officer come in just for a meet and Creek on this next? 02:49:50
Yeah, for council and. 02:49:56
I need. Do we need to? 02:49:59
I mean, I think everybody remembers Ivy Carnegie. 02:50:01
The new old SRO at Olympus High School, so. 02:50:07
And then we've got a couple of incentive orders that's during the council. 02:50:10
Replacing office developers? He's no. So we have a new code enforcement officer replacing Warren Gallow. 02:50:16
But our SRO at Olympus? 02:50:24
Jit resigned. He's going to. 02:50:26
Police Department in Miami, Miami. It's from the beach. Miami Beach. 02:50:28
The Beach Police Department and so we opened it up for applications. 02:50:33
And Jaime put in Fort was selected yesterday so he'll be ducked back at the school as soon as. 02:50:39
And he was there before and well liked, yes. 02:50:44
I think and one of those. 02:50:48
He as of the 15th. 02:50:53
So Chad Peterson of the new code enforcement officer. 02:50:56
No, that's who's going to come on the work session up. 02:51:01
Keys replacement award and so we'll I think it's good to have him feminine just introduce himself before council starts start 02:51:04
judging those who he is. 02:51:08
Love it and. 02:51:11
Yeah. OK. So one other thing I just want to say about 10:00 and 11:00, we're going to have a delayed. 02:51:14
Effective date when you adopt and that's just to give us time to get our. 02:51:21
All the coding for the court and and upd. 02:51:27
Caught up to reflect those changes. And also did you say we have to have a public hearing on them too? We will have a public 02:51:31
hearing. So if we are able to do this on the 6th, would have the public hearing on the 27th and then adopt it. 02:51:37
10:00 and 11:00. 02:51:44
So what about the balance of the code? 02:51:45
I thought we reviewed all the. 02:51:48
We are. 02:51:51
All. 02:51:54
Title by title, yeah, that's the. 02:52:01
How many titles do you have? 02:52:03
1717. 02:52:05
So we can do. 02:52:08
Two at once, but we can expect to do this four or five times. We may bring. 02:52:09
OK. 02:52:22
Your form of government makes it. 02:52:24
OK. Well, I think you just need to go into closed session and who do you want here for that? Just Todd? 02:52:29
Todd and Jerry. 02:52:34
OK, We just need a motion if somebody wants to read it off, but. 02:52:40
Post session. Thank you. 02:52:44
Let me see. 02:52:47
And then we're going to have to wait, adjourn. 02:52:50
Going through both sessions and process. 02:52:58
Described in UC 52.4204205. 02:53:01
Not the journey, but we're just going into closed session. 02:53:08
OK. 02:53:11
Yes. 02:53:13
Yeah, and I vote yes. And so as soon as Stephanie gives us the thumbs up, we'll turn it over. 02:53:16
Link
Start video at
Social
Embed
* you need to log in to manage your favorites
My Favorites List
You haven't added any favorites yet. Click the "Add Favorite" button on any media page, and they'll show up here.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file. Make sure you have Adobe Reader installed
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file. Make sure you have Adobe Reader installed
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file. Make sure you have Adobe Reader installed
Transcript
This is a work session to order. 00:00:00
On January 9th. 00:00:02
Welcome everybody. 00:00:06
Umm. 00:00:10
You weren't? Yeah. 00:00:12
Real quick, We do have a quick. 00:00:21
Well, uh. 00:00:24
We hope it's a quick closed session. We'll see. 00:00:25
And before we move to Item 2 on the agenda, we're just going to do a quick. 00:00:28
The non disclosure agreement or disclosure agreement. 00:00:33
Yes, Todd, yes. 00:00:36
Yeah, go ahead. 00:00:41
Last year, the state Legislature adopted the Department for disclosures for all elected officials. 00:00:42
And so your disclosure form is a little different than what you've seen in the past and it's different than what the staff will 00:00:48
sign this year. 00:00:51
Everything that you need to disclose on this form, one of the things you will see. 00:00:54
What the Legislature did. 00:01:01
It requires you to disclose your spouse's employment. 00:01:03
If there is any. 00:01:06
On the form. 00:01:08
Otherwise, I think it'll all be familiar to you. I don't think it's anything. 00:01:09
New or different? But you should be aware that these disclosures now get published with the state. 00:01:13
So and on their website. 00:01:21
Yeah. So they're easier to access I think than they were previously. 00:01:23
Neither good nor bad. It's just as well like on a website with and they can find them on the city website also. They've always 00:01:28
been able to do that. 00:01:32
It's not that big of a change. 00:01:36
But we just wanted to make you aware it's a new statutory requirement. 00:01:39
These will we need these. 00:01:41
Within the next few days because they have to be published with the state before the end of this month. 00:01:44
And that will be the drill now going forward. 00:01:50
Year, so is the previous employment, regardless of how long ago that month. 00:01:52
I would. 00:01:56
I would use your judgment. If it's 30 five years ago, I don't know that I'd worry about it. 00:01:59
This year's 5 1/2 years, I think it's been while you've been on the council. Yes, I would do it. Yep. 00:02:02
Employing the house by Yes, correct. 00:02:12
So as you go through this, if you don't, if you have more questions, you can ask to write tonight and if you don't finish filling 00:02:17
out I just. 00:02:20
If you want to scan it and send it to me or if you want to bring it in, I will come and get it from you since we're so late. 00:02:23
So. 00:02:28
But if you have any questions. 00:02:30
Thank you. Thanks, Todd. 00:02:34
Obviously. 00:02:36
Yes. 00:02:40
But it is a lot more in depth than. 00:02:41
It might take a little longer. 00:02:45
What? 00:02:50
The president of Todd Gottfried phone calls. 00:02:54
Groupie. 00:03:04
OK, all right. Well, I guess we are doing the City Hall thing. 00:03:06
Right. Hopefully like on January 5th or 6th or 7th of next year, sometime around there they start. 00:03:11
Anything important about that date there? Yes. 00:03:20
As excited as I am about this. 00:03:25
It's going to be interesting year or so, 14 months. 00:03:28
Yeah. 00:03:34
And so. 00:03:51
So. 00:04:02
What we wanted to bring to the Council's attention is primarily that. 00:04:03
Having worked through all the seismic upgrades and kind of the impact. 00:04:07
In what the building would be. 00:04:11
The primary thing that. 00:04:13
Is going to happen is that? 00:04:15
The main corridors. 00:04:16
Most likely be fully demolished and have to be rebuilt. 00:04:19
Because the seismic walls will be kind of being, we're going to be basically building. 00:04:22
Are upgrading these internal walls on both sides from from basement all the way to group? 00:04:27
And so. 00:04:34
Because of that. 00:04:35
You know, we were kind of. 00:04:37
Talking with the kind of administration team and what are the implications? Pictures. 00:04:38
OK, how do we then reconstruct the hallway in particular? 00:04:42
Which is kind of the public experience of this place. 00:04:46
And so there's the option to kind of. 00:04:49
Literally rebuild it passives. 00:04:51
Which is this kind of copper ceiling, but as we were going through the existing photos as well as the kind of documentation and 00:04:54
the original building. 00:04:57
So in the first page which you might have seen. 00:05:02
That's all of the original kind of actually drawings of the original building and lease site which started. 00:05:05
I mean the additions which. 00:05:11
Show the kind of corridor condition which was actually supposed to be. 00:05:12
A ^2 ceiling with kind of a kind of a cornice detail around. 00:05:17
And then when we looked at the photos of the hallway. 00:05:22
It was also kind of a square thing, so the kind of Dome shape was introduced by the architects in the addition that you guys did 00:05:26
when you converted a building from. 00:05:30
Elementary school to your kind of administrative office, so. 00:05:35
We were thinking, kind of our take was that if we're going to have to rebuild the entire hallway, we might bring back some of that 00:05:39
original character using both. 00:05:43
The inspirations from the original drawings, but. 00:05:48
If you go to. 00:05:51
The next page. 00:05:52
The next one. 00:05:55
So what we did is we developed some schemes where we were looking. 00:05:59
The irony is that all the original photos or the photos that were taken during the demolition didn't actually show. 00:06:03
The transition between. 00:06:09
Like how the school would have looked. 00:06:12
When it was built and then the addition for the school before it became converted so. 00:06:14
What we were hoping to do is then take a look at. 00:06:20
Similar buildings built around that time and kind of what type of kind of material quality and polling they would do. And so 00:06:22
that's kind of our decision making for how we are proposing some options to you. 00:06:28
So in the first option you'll see kind of weak development. See. 00:06:33
In the first option, what we're calling kind of a minimalist scheme is that. 00:06:37
We looked at buildings that were built kind of in that time around the 1920s and 30s. 00:06:41
And oftentimes what the floors would be would be some kind of monolithic teroxome. 00:06:45
It was really durable and then. 00:06:50
Would you get a cleaning right? 00:06:53
The drawings original drawings showed like a marble. 00:06:55
And obviously we thought cost wise we're not going to propose like marble floors. 00:06:58
But we felt like we wanted to do something that maybe upgrades and then also becomes actually a little bit more durable or easy to 00:07:05
clean than the floors that you have. So the high cleft, the bees original floors means that. 00:07:11
Honestly, when you're mopping or whatever dirt, it's honestly always going to get into those clefts and it's gonna really be hard 00:07:18
to feel like it's clean, clean. 00:07:22
And So what we have as our first option is, is. 00:07:25
Large format, it's a porcelain child that looks like a Toronto. So it's just going to be not the cost of Toronto, but again. 00:07:28
Going to give us a kind of really similar look. 00:07:34
And we're going to, we were proposing this one. It comes in a really large format of 24 by 24. 00:07:36
So that you could set it with a really tight grout joint and just becomes kind of monolithic. 00:07:42
Through the hallway. 00:07:47
And so we did develop some imagery using this tile so you can see what that might look like. 00:07:48
We called us a minimalist scheme because. 00:07:54
We do want to keep the molding which we feel is actually the most kind of true to the character of the original building and what 00:07:56
which kind of recreated. 00:08:00
And then what we would do is that. 00:08:04
We're coordinating with the exhibit design that was kind of coming through. And so we feel like if we went with a minimalist team 00:08:08
where the floor isn't necessarily really dramatic or. 00:08:12
Colorful. Then the new lighting for the kind of hall displays that will be going up all along the corridor would then become the 00:08:16
thing that becomes the attention. 00:08:20
And so that's kind of that first option that we were looking at. 00:08:25
Can we go next? 00:08:29
The stage. So that's the view that you can see here. 00:08:31
Enlarged and then the next page. 00:08:35
So the scheme for the. 00:08:40
Offices and all of the kind of spaces outside of the border. 00:08:44
Will most likely get incorporating at minimum. There's some more updates in the other spaces furnishings. 00:08:49
That we'll be working through, but primarily. 00:08:55
Into the carpet is going to be replaced everywhere. 00:08:57
And So what we're proposing is in this option is you can see the carpet titles there. 00:09:00
Is an kind of a plank tile that would be laid down. 00:09:05
So that. 00:09:09
Since these are regional targets, this is like a custom design. 00:09:11
Which actually we wanted to play off the green. We think that's kind of a fun. 00:09:15
And a way to continue kind of reinforce that some of that kind of. 00:09:19
The identity that had been built into the logo and everything for Holiday. 00:09:24
But what we're doing is we're proposing something that's maybe a little kind of a slightly more modern pattern, and then because 00:09:28
it's a plank. 00:09:31
If in the future. 00:09:35
The floor gets kind of a little section gets. 00:09:37
Nickel rune It can be replaced much easier than these current carpets, which is. 00:09:40
Or for broadband that if things have been problem that you would have to replace the entire car. 00:09:44
So we're hoping these things help on kind of a maintenance standpoint for the future. 00:09:49
And so this one is a linear thing. It's a linear pattern that could be laid in a plane. 00:09:53
It has a little bit hints of green, but overall it's a really consistent kind of distribution. So once it lays down together, it 00:09:58
starts to, we feel read kind of. 00:10:02
Neutral. 00:10:06
So the next image. 00:10:08
The other option we were looking at is. 00:10:12
While we feel like minimalism is not a bad way to go, we do feel that maybe a little bit of the character of the hallway got lost 00:10:15
in like a completely monolithic floor. 00:10:20
And So what we then look at is other ways in which buildings of the time period would deal with hallways, particularly a really 00:10:25
long corridor. 00:10:29
And oftentimes what you'd see is this kind of bordering effect where the outside perimeter would have a darker color and then 00:10:33
every so often they would be just kind of broad section. 00:10:38
And so that broad section would usually relate to things down the portal and like entrances to certain hallways of buildings or 00:10:42
rooms, right? 00:10:46
And so you understand that the existing corridor has these pilasters upgrade these little spaces. 00:10:50
It's basically are subtly indicating when you actually. 00:10:56
Entered a place where there should be. 00:11:00
A room of importance to the writers of Lack. 00:11:02
And So what we wanted to do is maybe take that forward as an option and so. 00:11:05
In this one, what we're doing is we're doing the border tile. 00:11:10
That would be dark and then in the middle. 00:11:13
We're looking at it. 00:11:15
A tile that looks like a marble. 00:11:17
As a kind of callback to, like I said, the original idea that there should have been marble floors. 00:11:20
To the next page. 00:11:24
And so Miss Marvel would then be laid in a diamond, and then you can see this kind of darker greater. 00:11:27
And so as you can see then you can highlight when there becomes. 00:11:32
Kind of a space adjacent. 00:11:37
That would be a place where people might be going or headed to. 00:11:39
And so that's the second option that you see over there. 00:11:42
Again, we're not trying to like overwhelmingly with pattern and style, but. 00:11:46
In the kind of subtle gestures of changing it up, it does provide a little bit more kind of character. 00:11:51
And historic kind of quality that. 00:11:56
That kind of would have probably not be done in the building of this. 00:11:59
Aid at that temperature. 00:12:02
And then the. 00:12:06
Sorry, scroll back so. 00:12:08
We have a different Scroll down 1. 00:12:10
Don't go down 1. Yep. 00:12:14
There we go. So we do have one option, a slightly different option for carpet for the rooms. 00:12:16
So instead of having something that's linear, which maybe feels a little bit. 00:12:22
To modern we did say that potentially we want to. 00:12:28
Propose something that has a little bit of more pattern to it. 00:12:30
Pattern is always great, mainly because it does hide things really well. 00:12:35
This is. 00:12:38
Biggest standard of. 00:12:40
Big hotels. Conference rooms. 00:12:41
Big pattern that should hide things, right? 00:12:43
So again, we're always going to propose, kind of. 00:12:45
Tile system. So what tiles could be replaced? 00:12:48
But we're showing kind of two options here. 00:12:51
Which have a little bit more capacity to them. 00:12:55
And again, when they actually *** **** when they *** **** together, we don't think the pattern is super distracting. We're not 00:12:57
looking for a lot of high contrast per se. 00:13:02
But we thought that maybe it. 00:13:06
Feels a little bit more interesting or lively than the linear flow which. 00:13:09
Might start to feel a little bit. 00:13:13
Trap in all your in all your public spaces. 00:13:16
So that's kind of this kind of other option that we're proposing. 00:13:20
And then if you scroll to the next page, the. 00:13:25
Oh sorry, if you Scroll down to the bottom. 00:13:31
On each of these options. 00:13:34
Are showing just in the. 00:13:37
We're creating a basement works, kind of. We called a work lounge. 00:13:40
For the staff, that's where. 00:13:45
There would be both the new kitchen area as well as just some casual meeting places. 00:13:49
For the basement where we are proposing that that new space use kind of an LB. 00:13:53
A resilient title. 00:13:59
And what we were doing is for that room, we felt particularly because it was supposed to feel a little bit like. 00:14:00
Not only just a kind of a workplace, but an actual place for. 00:14:05
Staff to actually meet and congregate and do some team meetings or some other casual things. 00:14:09
We wanted to make it a little more lively and fun. 00:14:14
And So what we're proposing is that we're proposing a palette of kind of three colors for the OEP. 00:14:16
We use it to kind of start to kind of subtly designate spaces within a larger space. 00:14:22
So then in this one we're calling it like a. 00:14:27
For carpet is that it needs a kind of more casual sitting area. 00:14:31
There's more station than the kitchenette. 00:14:34
And then on the backs, but on the back we're proposing kind of Wallpapers. 1 is a little bit more subtle. 00:14:37
And if you go up? 00:14:43
So the a version. 00:14:45
This one becomes a little bit more bold in the kind of graphic that we're choosing for the wallpaper. 00:14:52
We found this one. This isn't off the shelf. That has kind of a tree motif. 00:14:57
Which we were calling back to the leaf motif. 00:15:01
That healthy. 00:15:04
That's kind of the kind of two options we kind of put together for the staff to kind of think about. 00:15:06
And they wanted to present it to you. 00:15:11
City Council so that we could get some of your thoughts and thinking. 00:15:13
I mean, there's. 00:15:18
Are there specific? 00:15:21
Are there specific? 00:15:23
Decisions you'd like us to make here, like. Yeah, I think the big one is the. 00:15:26
The road versus the mountain. Clifford feeling. 00:15:31
Maybe we can go back. 00:15:35
OK. So yeah, up here, sorry. 00:15:40
Scroll down. 00:15:43
So the big thing about? 00:15:48
What we're saying is, is that when we don't. 00:15:50
We rebuild the arch, right? 00:15:52
We can raise your feelings and have them flat. 00:15:55
What we are doing is adding like a copper detail down where we would then use kind of. 00:15:57
Casework at the top, including. 00:16:04
At the top since then, reinforce those spaces below, but we wanted to make sure that the Council felt. 00:16:08
That would be OK because. 00:16:13
You know, obviously that's a big change from what? 00:16:15
Was installed here, this kind of stone ceiling all going all the way down. So that's one big architectural change and like I said. 00:16:18
If the Council thought. 00:16:24
That quality was something important. We could recreate it. But like we said. 00:16:26
We will have to devil all the ceilings that are in the entire corridor to do the. 00:16:30
Structural work. So that was the big thing that. 00:16:34
We wanted to get your feedback on if you felt that this kind of Dome seemed going down was important enough that you wanted to 00:16:37
regulate or if you're open to kind of moving into a different direction. 00:16:41
Is there a cost difference do you think or is it? 00:16:48
They're actually rebuilding the. 00:16:51
The Half Dome ceiling will probably be more costly because it's all over frames. 00:16:54
This one would be more consistent with the horses original historical period of the building. 00:17:04
Would you? Would that influence? Would you? 00:17:14
So I think. 00:17:18
Either the flooring could go like either before it could work with either scenes. 00:17:19
Primarily, the flooring was about. 00:17:24
Whether we thought that this kind of monochromatic scheme became a little bit. 00:17:27
To black, you might say. 00:17:32
And if there was a little bit more interest in bringing back the idea of the bordering? 00:17:35
Starts to suddenly indicate where there are spaces, where there's probably rooms or places. 00:17:39
So both of these renderings do show flat ceiling. 00:17:45
So I've never noticed. 00:17:52
Like I said, it's like we. 00:17:56
We, we were like, you know it, the ceilings all going to go away. There is a cost to be creating the Half Dome. That's why we were 00:18:05
saying that potentially. 00:18:09
Also, architecturally, it kind of matches the original character of the building we just noticed, but it was a big change. 00:18:13
So we wanted to bring up the. 00:18:18
Looking cancer protection? 00:18:20
That's great. 00:18:22
But to your question on the flooring. 00:18:24
I think that. 00:18:29
The one seemed really plain to me. Yeah, it was very plain. 00:18:30
I like the one you're showing. 00:18:34
Agreed. 00:18:37
Do that. 00:18:38
With a border. 00:18:41
We could we could find this monochromatic, it would just be depending on what order we would look at and so. 00:18:43
We could do a border. I guess the one thing is is that. 00:18:49
What we're using that visually helps is that there's contrast. 00:18:52
And the idea of monochromatic, even though you do a tile where you could see the subtle change. 00:18:56
You wouldn't necessarily. 00:19:00
Get as clear of a like a change of that pattern. So if you were going monochromatic, we would just say then you just lay the title 00:19:03
all the way because it's also from a cost standpoint, if you're going to use the same tile but just change your patterning, then 00:19:08
the labor increases substantially for let's say, cutting. 00:19:13
But if you actually are interested in the board, then you can find that out. 00:19:19
So we're doing the darker bordering, that's a tile, it is tile, that's the monochrome. And then these are the tiles for. 00:19:24
Our tiles and this would be the field type which would be. 00:19:33
That's great. Like this one's a little bit flower. 00:19:37
My child is more marble. They're not slippery, are they? Or no? 00:19:39
OK, maybe think about is on the border. Have it more of a. 00:19:45
Holiday brand color greenish. 00:19:48
We would have. 00:19:51
Always say the biggest challenge to the green is not. 00:19:55
A readily available floor color right now, so green. 00:19:59
So even that green marble that was abused, which was very popular when. 00:20:03
That color was very popular at that time. You could find a lot of options. I have scoured and we found one greenish. 00:20:07
Item, now that's that, yeah. 00:20:15
Great read. And so when we showed it to the administrative staff, they were like, well. 00:20:21
We like the idea, but the green wasn't like the right green. 00:20:25
And so unless you were, let's say. 00:20:29
And again, it doesn't make sense if let's say do a custom. 00:20:31
Tile, right? And so that's why we did scour quite a bit of, but we couldn't find there isn't a lot of green floor tiles. 00:20:35
Make a statement that would like. 00:20:45
Place it in this time that it would get outdated. 00:20:47
Right. 00:20:51
Well, and this is. 00:20:53
I'm assuming this is. 00:20:55
Been boiled down through because I've seen you guys have it working. 00:20:56
Yeah. So we presented like several other options. What we're trying to do is boil it down to a couple that. 00:21:00
You know, the team felt that, you know. 00:21:06
Met kind of the bigger ideas that they were thinking about but we wanted. 00:21:09
Big key ideas or for the Commission here. 00:21:12
Because particularly the public experiences. 00:21:16
Is going to change a bit. 00:21:19
Whenever we look back. 00:21:21
So we wanted to see if there were any concerns. 00:21:23
In the Council about the. 00:21:26
I'm also interested in knowing. 00:21:29
In the. 00:21:32
We've had council members. 00:21:34
At a particular interest in the site. 00:21:36
And so they transacted with our administrative scale. 00:21:38
City Park. 00:21:46
I don't know if anyone on the council has a similar interest. 00:21:49
Fire District 1 representative. 00:21:55
I I. 00:21:59
Include the Council. 00:22:08
They will continue to bring back. 00:22:09
This place. 00:22:15
And I mean, it's like we're happy to engage you as to the level you want. There were staff in the past. I worked a little bit. 00:22:18
Originally with the original Council president, who was very interested when we did. 00:22:26
Our proposal for the formative. 00:22:30
And again, they wanted to. They wanted to be a part of. 00:22:32
Every design meeting. 00:22:35
And that's why we wanted to understand the level of interest the current council has in terms of some of this decision. 00:22:36
One comment or question I assume. 00:22:49
A lot of these. 00:22:52
Rooms won't be changed that much except from the. 00:22:54
The wood finish is my only question, where it's one that ends, and I don't know that it's as timeless as I wish that it was, you 00:22:56
know? 00:22:58
And so this is one of the things is honestly what we're doing is we're. 00:23:02
Trying as a cost measure we're actually trying to keep. 00:23:06
The current wood color step and then use everything else we're doing to kind of modernize it. 00:23:09
So one of the first things we're doing is as we've transitioned to a palette. 00:23:15
That polls, we would say a little bit more kind of Gray and neutral. 00:23:19
And so we're also proposing that the walls will become like a crisper white. This is really muddled. 00:23:24
And so in doing those things, we're hoping that. 00:23:32
It actually will tone down the kind of. 00:23:35
Quality of the wood stain so we can keep a lot of it in locations, particularly all the doors on. 00:23:38
You know, it goes everywhere. 00:23:43
Right. And still have to touch windows and other rooms that aren't getting a full refresh. You know that all can stay and then 00:23:44
we're not going to match. So that's why we've been trying to choose in terms of thinking about lighting, color and pattern as a 00:23:49
way to update. 00:23:54
So that when these do come back, it does feel current. 00:23:59
But we can actually use the color of that blood as a basis. 00:24:01
I love that, thanks for being conscious. 00:24:05
Because otherwise. 00:24:09
Right. That would need to either be stripped and be seen or actually just torn out. I don't think that's bad. I see what you're 00:24:11
saying. You can change. 00:24:15
Everything around it actually makes the wood scene. 00:24:20
Like it might be. 00:24:24
Appear to be new even though it's not yeah and I think that's I mean that's always kind of even when we do like, you know I we do 00:24:25
a ton of renovations of both. 00:24:29
And, you know, commercial spaces and residential spaces, but that's usually the trick. 00:24:34
Is you can like. The first thing is if you identify what. 00:24:38
Maybe the really costly thing and you may want to work with. 00:24:42
But depending on how you work around it, we feel strongly that we can. 00:24:45
Make it feel updated. 00:24:48
Without having to do everything there. 00:24:49
Cool. 00:24:53
It sounds like we're on the right track. 00:24:56
Do we need anything on the What about the carpet? Yeah. 00:24:58
Showing you kind of where you are if you had strong opinion. 00:25:02
To your comment about the terrazzo look. 00:25:07
This specific tile does come in different colorways, so we could pair this if we don't. 00:25:10
We like this kind of Toronto. We look over the Marvel look. 00:25:15
We could pair this with a darker. 00:25:19
Or lighter tone and be able to create the same border effect but using a different texture. 00:25:21
So but. 00:25:26
OK. 00:25:28
I think on the carpet side we just wanted to know if there was any strong. 00:25:30
Otherwise we can just work with that. 00:25:38
But I, like I said, conceptually, the big idea is we do like the idea of. 00:25:40
The subtlety of the heat. 00:25:44
Yeah. 00:25:46
But what we're trying to do is maybe tone back. 00:25:47
Like the overwhelming green? 00:25:51
And then make it more like. 00:25:53
Yeah, the green could be taken too far as well. Yeah. 00:25:57
The middle one. 00:26:01
And it's not harsh. 00:26:09
It's pretty, yeah. It's. 00:26:11
Yeah. 00:26:13
Maybe you can pass around the. 00:26:26
Other floor sample? Sure. 00:26:28
The Dom Draper Rec Room. 00:26:31
Just the one that's a little. 00:26:56
I think we got this standby, so it's actually 5 to 6 inch. 00:26:59
So yeah, it's making the fashion statement. 00:27:14
In other words. 00:27:17
Better. 00:27:19
I mean, one screamed up for whiskey. 00:27:24
So I do like the other one. 00:27:28
Felt different. 00:27:33
Yeah. 00:27:36
This is just concepts too. We can get more how those spaces can be laid out and we can have those discussions. This is just. 00:27:39
Yeah. So what we, what we will be doing working with the administrative team is. 00:27:47
For these rooms, the actual furniture. 00:27:52
We're going to be working with kind of. 00:27:54
A kind of just. 00:27:57
A furniture supplier to help us give us options for how like. 00:27:59
We're looking for creating a commercial grade furniture that can withstand kind of the wear and tear. So we'll be working with 00:28:03
them for particularly options in the administrative wings in terms of updating the desks and those types of things. 00:28:09
For a space like that. 00:28:14
That will give us some ideas of options, but primarily we're going to. 00:28:16
Ask them for ideas about how we can make it flexible. 00:28:20
Like I said, that one downstairs kind of lounge space, the staff lounge, we're calling it. 00:28:22
The idea had been because this one is so small, the entire staff can't meet together in a place that doesn't necessarily always 00:28:27
feel like we're in a conference. 00:28:32
It's like, maybe it'd be nice if you're doing like a lunch session or something like that. It's a little bit more casual. 00:28:36
But also if people wanted to get out of their office and work somewhere. 00:28:41
Just with their laptop were a little bit that could be the place or even if they want to and you're going to get into this later. 00:28:45
That was I think my point is. 00:28:49
Yeah, when we start getting into these individual spaces, we'll be. 00:28:54
Engaging our employees and say how do we. 00:28:58
How do we set these spaces up so that there is? 00:29:01
Functional. 00:29:05
As they can possibly be if we're going to invest this money like. 00:29:06
Because I know in here, when I walk in, I always feel bad when somebody's. 00:29:09
Eating their lunch and then I interrupt them and. 00:29:12
So there will be places to where somebody wants to eat their lunch in private, right? They can do that. 00:29:16
Yeah. So that's the stuff that. 00:29:21
We're working with, yeah, that's down the road, yeah. Yeah, we have engaged our staff. 00:29:22
In the sport. 00:29:28
I think there will be more conversations. 00:29:31
And some of these choices that were avoided. 00:29:33
The cost, the estimates that we're going to come back to you and so that's. 00:29:36
Piece of the reason why we need to have some of these conversations up. 00:29:40
So going down the road now. 00:29:44
We can just expect every. 00:29:47
So often to have. 00:29:50
Have them come back and say, OK, we need to revision thought, hey DC and Vena and eventually we'll have. 00:29:52
The full layout of what we need to bid out for everything. 00:29:59
Yeah, I mean, right now we're. 00:30:01
For the most part, this is one of the biggest. 00:30:03
I think then we're moving into the furniture discussion. That's the next level. 00:30:06
And the finalization of. 00:30:10
An appendage like the mechanical break. 00:30:12
So we hope that, you know, within the next couple of months we'd be, we'd be. 00:30:15
Creating like a more final package that would be comprehensive. 00:30:20
And then that would be the that would go in for the. 00:30:24
Process and then we can say. 00:30:29
Right now we. 00:30:31
Feel pretty good that that that there has been huge changes that have like jumped your scope from what we did originally, but. 00:30:32
Again, we want to get that all kind of tight. 00:30:38
With 100% is out of the full structural. 00:30:41
Package that. That's the big thing that's driving how much we're going to have to do for the certain outbreak study. 00:30:44
OK, signing. 00:30:53
Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. 00:30:54
Thanks for coming. 00:30:57
Thanks staff for working on this. I see you guys. 00:31:00
Going over was asking them like. 00:31:03
I'm right? 00:31:14
Yeah, they're just, I think they're just out in the hall. 00:31:17
Did you want to interrupt? Oh, you're good. 00:31:24
Ethan and I are going to take to head to the table if that's OK. Ethan is Director of Research at Vice Analytics, so he is my. 00:31:28
Right hand for holiday. 00:31:35
I want to we'll just go sort of page by page here. A lot of this is going to be really familiar. 00:31:42
So beginning of the survey here, we don't have a lot of changes. We have our warm up questions for residents. 00:31:50
Overall quality of life rating, right direction, wrong direction, and general elected approval ratings. 00:31:55
So we'll be tracking those overtime as well as the. 00:32:02
How holiday today compares to five years ago? 00:32:06
We've made a couple changes to the open-ended questions this year so we still have what you like most about winning holiday. 00:32:15
But we added a question to try and get at sort of what values or things residents point to that make holiday unique or distinct 00:32:22
from other communities along the Los Angeles front. 00:32:28
So that question has been added here. 00:32:34
And then we still have our top issue question which thinking about the next three to five years, both of us press significant 00:32:36
facing in the city. 00:32:40
And overall likelihood to recommend the city to others as a place to live. 00:32:44
We have our reading through Test Dollar and our general sentiments about Holiday to what extent I disagree or disagree. 00:32:53
About some of these. 00:33:01
Attributes of the community. 00:33:02
Managing city services, whether the city have businesses they're looking for, growing and developing the positive way. 00:33:04
This next one, sorry, just a little bit there. We added this business type question. So if residents say that they to some extent 00:33:11
disagree. 00:33:16
That the city has all of the businesses or all the kinds of businesses they would like to have. 00:33:21
We wanted to give them some categories here. We know if we provide an open-ended question for this, we're going to get a lot of 00:33:26
Trader Joe's. 00:33:30
And we're looking to maybe direct the economic development question a little bit more. So we've provided some business categories 00:33:34
and still left that option for another. Please specify. I wouldn't be surprised if we still see an appearance there. 00:33:41
Now you can go ahead. I just told someone this last week, but it should be. 00:33:49
They won't be able to get $2.00 check. 00:33:52
Performs in terms of sidewalk maintenance, St. lighting, city code enforcement, works open spaces, community events. 00:34:00
Cetera we're looking at. 00:34:20
Water conservation efforts as well, so. 00:34:23
Drilling down on some of these things to see if residents attitudes have changed since the city undertook some of the capital 00:34:26
projects for holiday time. 00:34:30
Services provided by a contractor agency for the familiar list here. No real changes. Yes please. 00:34:36
Yes. Is there going to be something for each of those or is that? 00:34:46
Well, we did it specifically for code enforcement because that was the one in the last iteration of this survey that received. 00:34:50
The lowest rating overall and we wanted to be able to parse whether residents are frustrated by too much code enforcement or not 00:34:56
enough code enforcement and and what direction that might be cutting. So we added it specifically for that this year. 00:35:04
They want coordinates more in their neighborhood. 00:35:13
City services contracted with another agency and then just general city services experience if there's anything else folks would 00:35:28
like to tell us about their students this day. 00:35:32
And we've moved the budget allocation question up in the survey so that it immediately follows those city service ratings this 00:35:37
year. 00:35:41
Partly because we've introduced some new topics into the survey that we want to get residents opinions on. 00:35:45
So this just seems to flow a little bit better, but hopefully this also means that. 00:35:50
Residents are thinking about their experiences with city services. 00:35:56
They're thinking specifically about how they would like to see. 00:35:59
Their funds allocated if we're looking to improve some of those experiences. 00:36:04
Some neighborhood sentiments here. So generally we're looking at sort of the look and feel of neighborhoods. 00:36:13
In holiday and then we've added a couple questions here from what we had in the past was a full battery that examined residents 00:36:21
attitudes towards traffic and roads in the city both. 00:36:27
Major thoroughfares and the streets and roads in their neighborhood. 00:36:33
We have instead tapped those onto this neighborhood sentiments question. 00:36:37
Looking at. 00:36:42
Maintenance in roads in their neighborhood and the city as a whole, again, sort of following up on some of those capital. 00:36:43
We have our streetlights, a number or amount and quality questions here. So are there enough, too many or? 00:36:52
Too not enough to many or the red. 00:37:02
And then in terms of quality, are they too bright, not bright enough or adequate? 00:37:04
Similar set of questions for holiday or for home accent lighting. 00:37:10
So this has. 00:37:16
Come up a little bit and we're trying to address it delicately. You don't want to create an issue where there isn't one, but we do 00:37:18
want to understand the extent to which residents broadly in the city feel strongly about this. 00:37:24
We have a section here that delves into residence transit use, so current use of public transit in or around holiday. 00:37:36
Overall frequency. 00:37:45
And then? 00:37:47
A set of potential barriers to entry. So what things might be keeping residents from using transit, or using transit more 00:37:48
frequently? 00:37:52
We had a short list here and then included that other. Please specify. Certainly open to additional. 00:37:57
Response options. 00:38:04
I think this covered most of our bases. If we're thinking about bus systems not having routes where residents like to go, they're 00:38:06
unfamiliar or uncomfortable. 00:38:11
Just preference of another mode of transportation. 00:38:16
Or there's no stop that is convenient to their home, so difficulty accessing transit Commission. 00:38:19
And then potential ways to overcome those barriers to entry. So which if any of these? 00:38:28
Solutions might encourage them to use transit or use transit more. More bus stops a bus stop within walking distance of their. 00:38:34
Improvements to bus stops or buses. More information, schedules, More frequent bus service. 00:38:42
New direct routes so. 00:38:47
For example, a service to the university. 00:38:50
Access to additional types of transit, whether that's streetcar. 00:38:55
In the city and then again that other. Please specify option and none of the above option there as well. 00:38:59
The reality is we're having edition. 00:39:06
A share of residence. I won't speculate too much on what that share looks like, but. 00:39:08
Who for whom? We can't overcome those barriers to entry so. 00:39:12
The news and communications section here should be pretty familiar overall how residents are currently receiving information from 00:39:17
the city and how they would prefer to receive most of their information from the city. 00:39:24
Identifying some potential areas for further emphasis. 00:39:30
And then a sense of the cadence of communications as well, so whether residents are happy with the level of communication they 00:39:35
receive or if they would prefer to receive. 00:39:40
More or less information from the city. 00:39:45
And then we've added this question about interest in a separate city newsletter outside the Holiday Journal, So. 00:39:49
We know that residents are. 00:39:57
Quite attached to the Journal, but we're interested to see how much attention they're paying to the city's piece of the Journal. 00:39:59
If that is more. 00:40:06
Social or? 00:40:09
Fun news source, or if it is something where they're turning to that source for city information. 00:40:11
And if so, is that something that residents would be interested in the city providing separately? 00:40:16
And if so, on what cadence? So monthly, every two months, one supporter price year or once year? 00:40:23
We have our contact questions here, so if residents have contacted the city office in the past years. 00:40:32
Were they generally satisfied with the satisfied and if they have any comments they would like to share about that? 00:40:38
An open-ended response option there as well. 00:40:44
We have a housing section here that is. 00:40:50
Probably somewhat familiar. I think we asked this question. 00:40:53
About the types of housing that are needed in holiday overall in the past. 00:40:57
So various sort of missing middle housing options. 00:41:03
And then? 00:41:08
A follow up question which is which features would fit well? 00:41:09
Into residence specific area of the city. So first looking at what does the city need writ large and then residents be willing to 00:41:13
have in their own vendor. 00:41:18
And then the flip side of that. 00:41:29
Would residents like to see some of those things in the city generally, but maybe not in their own backyards so. 00:41:32
Trying to get both sides of the coin here. Get residents to really tell us what their priorities for the city as a whole are. 00:41:39
Preference the question the legislature is holding a gun to your head. 00:41:45
Yeah. 00:41:51
You had to choose right? Looking at this set of questions here. 00:41:53
The scroll up just a bit, so we're posting a set of questions. 00:41:58
About Adu's and. 00:42:03
Sort of potential development solutions. 00:42:06
Mixed-use developments. 00:42:10
Whether the housing that is introduced to the city. 00:42:14
In an effort to respond to the Legislature's requirements. 00:42:18
Would be more. 00:42:23
Palatable or for us to be more open to it if it sort of fits the look and feel of existing housing and holiday. 00:42:25
Is it supporting high density housing, providing more options for future residents? 00:42:33
Are we encouraging more moderate income housing for residents making less than $80,000 a year? 00:42:39
Would residents be interested in seeing Pacific allocating funding? 00:42:45
To rehabilitation. 00:42:49
So that there are more opportunities for multi company. 00:42:51
For some properties that pay. 00:42:55
And could be low hanging fruit there. 00:42:58
So we have. 00:43:01
A variety of options here and things that we'll ask residents just their general sentiments about. 00:43:03
See. See if there's. 00:43:09
One Ave. that is especially appealing for residents as we're speaking. 00:43:11
What levers to pull? 00:43:16
We've added this public health section this year, so we're starting with asking a set of questions about. 00:43:25
To what extent? 00:43:31
Their residents are broadly concerned about some public health issues. 00:43:34
Or are they? 00:43:39
Are they of concern to residents and their neighbors? 00:43:40
Typically we wouldn't ask a question that is. 00:43:44
A little bit speculative in the direction of, you know, what do you think your neighbors think? 00:43:47
But when it comes to public health, we need to be able to give residents some sense of anonymity. 00:43:52
So if residents are. 00:43:57
Reporting on what they see as a community wide issue rather than just a. 00:44:00
Personal in their household issue. 00:44:04
We're hopeful, and this is something that we see in social science a lot, just providing a little bit of that. 00:44:07
Social cover. 00:44:12
Tends to give us more. 00:44:14
Honest answers. 00:44:16
And then we do ask a follow-up question after asking about. 00:44:19
Some of these public health issues broadly, you know. 00:44:24
To what extent, if at all, these concerns have had an impact on? 00:44:27
Residents and members of their house. 00:44:31
Some Emergency Management questions are new this year as well. 00:44:37
So overall we're looking at. 00:44:41
Residents perceptions of how well prepared various organizations or groups are in the event of a natural disaster or emergency, 00:44:43
including their own household. So we want to start close to home, then sort of branch out from there. 00:44:50
To get residents sense of. 00:44:57
Overall preparedness. 00:44:59
Scroll down. I'm getting a little bit more specific. We're asking residents what types of preparations they have in place in the 00:45:02
event of emergency. 00:45:06
One of the things. 00:45:12
That we. 00:45:13
I can sort of toyed with here. 00:45:15
Is the shift between having enough food and water for three days? 00:45:17
Versus having enough food and water for a week or more when we're thinking about the reality of emergency response times. 00:45:24
And when aid could arrive in the event of a severe emergency. 00:45:30
Is that going to change the way residents are thinking about their own emergency preparedness? Is that going to change the way the 00:45:35
city should be discussing emergency preparedness with residents? 00:45:40
So that's what those options, 2 through 5 are there. And then there's some of these other things, designated meeting places, 00:45:45
copies of important documents, types of insurance. 00:45:50
That our insurance companies think we need. 00:45:56
Regardless of whether it makes sense in our neighborhood. 00:45:59
And then the next question here goes. 00:46:04
So I'm trying to see what we're trying to get at here. 00:46:08
Like what are we going to do with us? Are we using that as the future education tool regarding? 00:46:14
Fire insurance. Flood insurance, Earthquake insurance. 00:46:21
Why do we want that information? 00:46:27
Yeah. So I think the first step here is understanding what residents see as necessary and what they are prepared with so that we 00:46:29
can tailor the city's. 00:46:34
Approach and communications. 00:46:40
Educational programs about emergency preparedness to sort of address the gaps. 00:46:42
As we're thinking about. 00:46:48
Likely events in holiday. 00:46:49
Or less likely events, certainly, but. 00:46:52
Sort of understanding the broad. 00:46:55
Landscape there for emergency preparedness and. 00:46:57
Being able to then. 00:47:01
Develop a program that is addressing residents needs or lack of information. 00:47:03
So we can use it as a. 00:47:09
Way to focus where we're going to try to communicate and educate with our residents down the road. 00:47:13
Because I'm just looking ahead a little bit here to some of the questions and. 00:47:19
Part of what I think of my questions going to be is. 00:47:23
You know, it's a long survey and is it going to? 00:47:26
Maybe I'll wait till we get to the end, but I'm going to have that question. 00:47:31
How much of this information is really useful to us and. 00:47:35
Is it going to? 00:47:39
Discourage people from taking a survey when they see the length of it. 00:47:43
And I was going to get to. Is there any way you can? 00:47:47
Segment it so if somebody gives up after they get through. 00:47:49
Half or 2/3? 00:47:53
You've at least got. 00:47:55
The pieces they did. 00:47:57
So absolutely yes, we always keep partial responses included in the data. 00:47:58
Just so that we're not losing out on some of that information if residents did get fatigued at some point in the survey. 00:48:04
Mayor, you've anticipated my question to the group here. 00:48:11
Where should we prioritize our efforts in this case because we really. 00:48:16
Done our best to capture all of the sort of new or newly focused areas of. 00:48:21
Lines of questioning here. 00:48:30
So we are. 00:48:32
A bit longer than we would like to be. 00:48:34
If there are some things that we can deprioritize or if there are things that. 00:48:36
Maybe don't make sense to ask at this time we're. 00:48:41
Definitely looking for ways to. That's a real question I'd have when you start going through these text pages and then look at 00:48:46
this stuff. 00:48:50
Like what's your income? What are you, male or female? 00:48:54
What's your? 00:48:58
What? 00:49:01
Why do we need to know that? How's that going to apply? And if it doesn't, can we? Let's I say let's eliminate it if it's not. 00:49:02
Useful information as I'm trying to call this down to where people will. 00:49:09
Not be incentivized not to take it. 00:49:13
So those demographic questions unfortunately. 00:49:16
Place to be taken. 00:49:19
Because those are the ways that we ensure that we. 00:49:21
Representative sample of cities. 00:49:23
We want to make sure that we're balanced across age, across socioeconomic status. So demographically, those are some data points 00:49:25
that. 00:49:29
To the extent that we can get people to answer them, we need that data. 00:49:33
My point would be though, I mean from my standpoint, what I really care about is. 00:49:41
How do you feel about arose? How do you feel about our police? How do you know? How did that trending? And I don't particularly 00:49:46
care. 00:49:49
What gender you are, how much money you make if you're a resident. 00:49:52
That's what I care about. Info. 00:49:56
Just a little bit. 00:49:59
The danger? 00:50:01
Is if we don't gather that information, if we don't know? 00:50:03
What age our residents are or what income bracket they're in. 00:50:07
There could be a group that were systematically underrepresented. 00:50:11
I think their attitudes are significantly different in regards to police or roads or city services byways. 00:50:14
Sidewalks. 00:50:22
We want to know, Yeah, OK. But we've got a representative. OK. Yeah, All right. I'm just looking at it as we go through this and 00:50:23
trying to figure out a way to. 00:50:28
Steve, we could you know if. 00:50:34
If people are going to take it, great, but my first? 00:50:36
Impressions. It seems really long, yeah. And so this case. 00:50:39
So the survey as it stands now is probably around 18 minutes. And how long would you recommend ideally we're staying? 00:50:44
Around 15. 00:50:57
That would put us cutting. 00:50:59
You would be surprised how much residents want to talk about the city they live in though, so we can usually get away with 12 to 00:51:02
15 minutes for something that is. 00:51:06
Close to residents hearts and. 00:51:11
We have a lot of. 00:51:13
Of goodwill and civic duty to draw on for this type of research here. So we've had success with that in the past. 00:51:14
But adding. 00:51:21
All of these new lines of questioning. 00:51:23
Would present some difficulties, I think for overall completion rates, so. 00:51:25
Looking for some areas where we would need to trim back. We're probably looking at cutting a series of five to six questions 00:51:31
ideally. The clubs and groups section I think is. 00:51:36
Helpful, but not that. 00:51:42
Yeah, well, I was reading through that, my first question. 00:51:43
Was why do they need this and now second? 00:51:47
Was this moving? Feels a little bit invasive. 00:51:51
OK, I think it probably. 00:51:54
Came from the. Yeah, I can see right, Yeah. 00:51:58
Right, but I have the same. 00:52:05
Reaction not about the invasiveness. So Mike is just. 00:52:08
It would be nice to know, but I'm not sure it's poor. 00:52:11
If we need to trim it that second area, yeah. 00:52:15
Can I ask the question in advice to? 00:52:19
The demographics, and obviously I came in late so you probably already heard this, but. 00:52:22
Do you have like maybe just a quick explanation on why we need the demographics? I feel like if we just tell them like we need a 00:52:26
representative sample. 00:52:30
I'd like that to. 00:52:35
You know, appease some of that part of people, you know, being nervous about sharing information and the government still either 00:52:36
like, yes, that's a great idea. Yeah. Before we dive into any of those demographic questions, we do have a preface that says. 00:52:44
We have a few remaining questions for you to ensure that we have a representative sample of Holiday City residents. 00:52:51
Remember that your responses will be kept strictly confidential. These are for statistical purposes only, OK? 00:52:57
So some of these sections too like. 00:53:04
I feel like we're asking. 00:53:07
I feel like we could just ask maybe one question on streetlights or like there's somewhere we're asking lots of different 00:53:10
questions and maybe we could just. 00:53:14
Annual St. glands are a tricky example there, but I understand what you're saying. 00:53:18
The other one about why accent lighting was wondering about. 00:53:28
You know, trying to get a measure of. 00:53:33
If they care enough about the issue that they're going to have the city Reg. 00:53:37
Won't accept my as opposed to just because that's really the issue. 00:53:41
Is whether or not. 00:53:45
Citizens would be tolerant of the city engaging in. 00:53:48
That sort of. 00:53:51
Very personal regulation of foam accelerating. 00:53:53
Because it might be too bright, might be too dim, might be not not care, might might care a lot, but. 00:53:57
You care enough. 00:54:03
That you're willing to subject yourself to city regulation. 00:54:05
That's really. 00:54:08
Core issue there. I get any apps too about like sport ports and stuff like that then. 00:54:09
Pack that bike. 00:54:15
Broad match conclude. 00:54:20
One that I think. 00:54:31
If we were to broaden it, I think it distills the usefulness of the information that we're getting in anyone regard. So I don't 00:54:34
know if there's a way to. 00:54:40
Succinctly. 00:54:46
Expand that, but still get good quality data that addresses these questions. 00:54:48
Maybe it is. 00:54:53
Just down to what? 00:54:55
Types of. 00:54:56
Private property features residents feel the city should be allowed to regulate and that could be sort of a multiple choice 00:55:00
approach. 00:55:04
With none of the above option, because maybe they don't care strongly enough about any of these things. 00:55:09
Got it. 00:55:16
So if I could talk just a moment about how? 00:55:27
How the process we use to come up with a list that you see in front of you? 00:55:30
So Holly and I met with Kyrene and looked at the survey as a. 00:55:34
When has gone out in prior years? 00:55:40
And then we tried to think of other priority issues and areas of interest of the Council. 00:55:43
And then Kareem. 00:55:51
Suggested some questions to us. We may have gotten this wrong. 00:55:53
So home accent lighting. 00:55:57
We may have a different direction now than we had two months ago. 00:56:00
We're completely open if there are areas that you don't want to ask. 00:56:06
You feel like you have the information you need. We can certainly take those out. 00:56:11
I'm worse concerned about the lane. 00:56:17
And you would know better which question is. 00:56:23
However you feel. 00:56:35
That we can still meet the objectives to get information that we needed. 00:56:37
So that's a great question. We had some conversation about that today. One of our challenges we had intended to go in the field, I 00:56:44
think. 00:56:48
Yeah. 00:56:54
We have a questionnaire for the general plan that has also is also being shared with residents and we thought that could be a 00:56:56
little confusing, so Kyrie came up with. 00:57:01
A better time frame today. 00:57:07
So our suggested timeline to make sure that we're not stepping on toes or confusing residents with multiple surveys fielding at 00:57:09
St. 00:57:13
Is that the week after the general planned survey that's currently on the website has closed? 00:57:16
Is when we will send out or residents will start receiving invitations to participate in this survey. 00:57:22
We'll also have. 00:57:28
A short explanation in the invitation language that says. 00:57:29
If you participated in the General Plan survey, we appreciate your input. This is a longitudinal study that the community has been 00:57:34
doing for years, and we're looking to track some of the aspects of quality of life and holiday overtime. 00:57:40
Your participation in a scientific survey is very important. 00:57:47
So hopefully that. 00:57:50
Encourages participation without detracting participation in the general plan survey and allows us to. 00:57:51
To get that good representative sample that we need. 00:57:58
Are you concerned at all about the? 00:58:00
The overall related shell shock. 00:58:04
Lots of citizens are presently in. 00:58:06
And how that could skew results. 00:58:08
Well. 00:58:11
In conversational. 00:58:19
Was immediately. 00:58:22
Height of the pandemic. 00:58:23
And he saw in some of our quality of life ratings, just overall sentiment. 00:58:26
Residents up and down the WASAF front, not unique to holiday. 00:58:33
Residents were a little bit. 00:58:37
Grouchy, a little bit more pessimistic than they have been in here. 00:58:39
I wouldn't be surprised if you see some of that in the general sentiment question with one of the survey. But when we get into the 00:58:43
specific city service issues when we're looking at. 00:58:48
Sidewalks of streetlights and those things that. 00:58:53
Are a little bit closer to home for residents. I don't expect that we'll see that same effect. 00:58:55
Translate in ways that is, that are. 00:59:01
Misleading. 00:59:05
Presumably the general plan survey questions. 00:59:07
And there's no, I need to go through the general plan questionnaire a little bit more closely or Gina sent that over to me today. 00:59:11
So I'll make sure we don't have any. 00:59:16
Unnecessary overlap there. 00:59:22
There are again some of our longitudinal questions. They might have some similarities. 00:59:25
And I would want to keep those in place here anyway because that is how we've been tracking the health of the city overtime. 00:59:30
If we do, I'm looking at the 2022. 00:59:38
Did we do one prior to that as well? Did we do that? 00:59:42
So I mean to me. 00:59:48
A couple of things. 00:59:54
1 is when can we expect? 00:59:55
For White 2 to present the results of. 00:59:58
That's the other things that I talked about today. So we're planning on the 1st Council meeting in April is that we would share 01:00:01
results. 01:00:05
One comment I have is your budget. Yeah, this is a great like first presentation. 01:00:09
You know, and the Gina will come in. 01:00:16
You know, we'll start having a tentative budget, but I think it's great for the Council. 01:00:18
To have a baseline of kind of where things are at, but. 01:00:23
What's most important to me about the survey results is because some of these questions, honestly, you know what the answer is 01:00:26
going to be, right? 01:00:29
Yeah, yeah, your roads could be better, yeah. 01:00:34
But what is the? 01:00:37
I'm really interested in. 01:00:39
What the trending is? 01:00:41
Over. I don't know what's a, you know, can we compare? 01:00:43
19/22/25 and the you know, see what our residents feel about. 01:00:46
The direction of the city. 01:00:53
And get a sense of. 01:00:55
Give ourselves an honest appraisal of what our residents think about the job we're doing or where they think we should be. 01:00:58
Focusing our resources as we enter this budget season, I think that's really helpful information for the. 01:01:07
In that section at the front of the survey where we finally minimal treatment. 01:01:13
Or three through quickly. Those are the things that we are being longitudinally that we will be able to report. 01:01:18
How it has changed, if at all, since 2017? 01:01:23
Yeah, I mean, I would have to leave it to. I mean, I agree with them. I'll leave. 01:01:27
I don't want to go through this thing question by question, but if we could, if you guys could go through it and say? 01:01:32
With the goal of seeing if we could. 01:01:38
Could get the survey down to 1314 minute time frame but still get. 01:01:41
Really good information for us, I think that would be great. But I think for us the most important thing, at least for me, is I 01:01:46
want to see that. 01:01:50
Comparative data and get a real sense of. 01:01:54
Where our community thinks we are going and. 01:01:57
How we're doing and. 01:02:01
Where they'd like to see us focus and. 01:02:02
Where they want us to commit more resources, less resources. 01:02:05
Point taken. And Kyrene, sorry to interrupt. No, please. But what's also very helpful and you've done this in the past. 01:02:10
Is also give us just kind of your general view of. 01:02:16
How this relates to other? 01:02:23
Municipalities that you survey, you know how you think holiday ranks in that regard too, Because I know it's not an exact science, 01:02:26
right? So. 01:02:30
Yeah. 01:02:35
So I think the. 01:02:43
The question. 01:02:44
Is pulling the nose. 01:02:45
Benchmarking questions so. 01:02:50
We've been using for a. 01:02:51
Some time now. 01:02:53
Are there? 01:02:55
New lines of inquiry that we've added. 01:02:56
That should be deprioritized. Is there something that is very high priority to the Council that. 01:02:59
We have missed. 01:03:05
As we've aggregated these questions that we should remove some of these things and refocus our attention. 01:03:07
Doctor, do you want to ask? 01:03:13
We have a set of sustainability questions and those were some that we cut for time, so we can go back and make that shift if 01:03:30
there's something else that you would prefer to cut instead. 01:03:35
We're out of this or that point in this survey, so. 01:03:41
To be it's an important issue. 01:03:45
Hey, you've just added three questions. 01:03:52
Yeah, so. 01:03:57
All right, So scrapping clubs and groups, adding the sustainability section back, we can work from that. 01:04:09
So wherever we started, yeah, we're basically adding events, so. 01:04:18
So seems like. 01:04:24
There are several questions that are. 01:04:26
Sort of overlapping. 01:04:29
And I know that, David. 01:04:31
That maybe. 01:04:34
We can go through any which one which reason is more something than the other. Sure, I'm happy to go through and make 01:04:36
recommendations as to how we can streamline within topics, but if there are? 01:04:42
Again, any of these issues that we could deprioritize or shelf for a moment, those are the things that we'd like to know because. 01:04:49
While we can shave off a question here and there, eliminating some of those redundancies. 01:04:57
A new block of questions is carrying more weight than than slimming things down in other places. 01:05:03
Typically so. 01:05:10
Maybe this was extended with the illness. 01:05:12
But I wondered. 01:05:14
Probably it could be updated to. 01:05:22
And we can revisit that. I'll make sure that we are maintaining some parity with the the census distribution. 01:05:26
So it sounds like you'd like us to just go back and focus rather than. 01:05:35
Other than clubs, eliminate any. 01:05:42
Section that we've identified one of the nice like interesting versus usable kind of a thing. 01:05:45
Even if it gets down to. 01:05:54
Usable for core services. 01:05:57
If we have to go between necessary and useful. 01:05:59
OK. 01:06:10
Well, that sounds like you should get some time on the calendar with. 01:06:14
Sounds like it. 01:06:18
We'll look at something next week. 01:06:20
That sounds good. 01:06:24
I think then yeah, this just brings us to our demographic functions at the end of the survey, so. 01:06:26
Any other questions or comments for me before we go put our notes Absolutely right so. 01:06:32
How many municipalities do you present? 01:06:38
All of the municipalities that went to works with but I would have to do a quick mentality. 01:06:43
Work somewhere in the realm of 20 cities. 01:06:48
Some rotation, some of them are annually, some of them are biannually. 01:06:53
So you're very fast and use these questions. I'm assuming we have like. 01:06:56
We thought you're not reinventing. We're not reinventing the wheel as. 01:07:01
As often as possible there are some of the some of the topics. 01:07:06
That Holly and Gina had us introduced this year. We did not have standardized questions or from other communities. So there are a 01:07:10
few places here and there where. 01:07:14
We really. 01:07:19
Are tailoring something specific to holiday? But for the most part we do want to create something that is comparable to what we're 01:07:20
doing in other communities. 01:07:24
Well, thank you all for your time. 01:07:32
Thank you. Thanks so much. 01:07:35
The work is in the details on that fix for the holiday. Again, that's like. 01:07:40
It's really cool. 01:07:46
Integrity was fantastic. 01:07:49
Always do your stairs. 01:07:56
But like some of my business stuff. 01:08:00
What businesses come in and out of here, I guess. 01:08:04
And can do that if you could information for and. 01:08:07
He needs to go and bring. 01:08:12
Trying to recruit. 01:08:15
Some kind of business or businesses that are missing in the city. 01:08:17
And that's exactly the purpose for that question. 01:08:21
She's going to target her like a boutique, yeah. 01:08:26
Yeah, that's frustrating. Things for me is like. 01:08:31
They're going to tell you, oh, we want better restaurants in the city. 01:08:36
But we don't want more people to live in the city. It's like, well. 01:08:40
Yeah, yeah. And it's like, well. 01:08:46
We can't. 01:08:50
Nice places to shop. People need to go shop there to keep them in business and so there's this. 01:08:51
Anyway, umm. 01:08:57
All right. 01:08:59
Sure. So this came. 01:09:01
I'm trying to go back on this. As we were talking we had some. 01:09:04
Residents coming in and. 01:09:08
Talking about, you know, this new. 01:09:10
Ockerland, yes. 01:09:13
Yes, I think that. I think the two new homes on Walker Lane and Cottonwood Lane. 01:09:16
Or two that kind of spurred. 01:09:23
Start, but the discussion started before that, right? This has been. 01:09:25
Kind of brewing. 01:09:29
Residential properties treat. 01:09:33
Lighting is concerned. 01:09:36
We've historically had. 01:09:38
Commercial lighting standards that protect residential powers from development. 01:09:40
So now with the. 01:09:46
Readily available product. 01:09:47
Lights, they're so cheap and they're learning different color spectrums. 01:09:50
They're becoming. 01:09:55
From a resident's point of view, and he learned a nuisance between neighbor and neighbor only a commercial property. 01:09:57
Your Planning Commission right now currently reviews. 01:10:04
All site planets for planning standards, they go through a limited study to find out where the property lots. 01:10:07
Necklords are 7 lift. 01:10:13
Never had them. 01:10:15
Required of the lighting standard or lighting study but. 01:10:17
So in your packet is a staff report, but also. 01:10:21
Two different draft ordinances. 01:10:26
That you can take a look at in. 01:10:28
One of them is a draft ordinance that basically will just insert. 01:10:31
Into the residential zones. 01:10:37
There's a table in the staff report that shows. 01:10:40
Its own commercial properties and what the lighting standards are there. 01:10:43
And we would just do something similar. 01:10:48
Taking the draft ordinance at the end of the packet and just inserting it into the art. 01:10:50
Cheap clubs. 01:10:55
The second set of draft verdicts is something that would probably be recommended. 01:10:58
Definitely by my department. 01:11:04
Holistic Review. 01:11:06
We remove all of the lighting standards from all of the zones and create one location. 01:11:08
You know it has its own chapter in title. 01:11:13
Their title and chapter that addresses residential commercial properties. 01:11:15
More holistic with you. So that's what you would put Frankie. 01:11:19
Yeah, why? 01:11:23
That one is because we have the opportunity to take a look at how all properties are addressed together. 01:11:25
Rather than having to address specific standard specific zones because you're getting to the point where there shouldn't be 01:11:31
specialized. 01:11:35
Lighting standards for specific. 01:11:40
You know, commercials, online and residential properties. 01:11:42
There still is residential standards in that second section, the second draft code. 01:11:45
And then all the other commercial problems are through the left there. 01:11:49
Standard, but then that gives us an opportunity to. 01:11:53
Provide a developer or property owner as to examples of. 01:11:57
What a full cutoff blood. 01:12:01
How can pedestrian lighting work more properly or properly as far as. 01:12:05
Security. 01:12:09
And also accident fighting. 01:12:11
It gives you the opportunity to take a look at citywide. 01:12:13
The spectrum or the Kelvin range of what light is that is. 01:12:17
One of the in terms of implementation, unfortunately we're talking about. 01:12:24
The review for. 01:12:29
The new remodels, building permits or does it? 01:12:31
Place an onus on existing. 01:12:35
Lighting where you have to then go in. 01:12:37
Code enforcement comes around and say that's no good anymore. It's been there for 20 years. Yeah, there's existing lighting. We'd 01:12:41
be recommending a nuisance enforcement. 01:12:45
That it provides a nuisance issue based upon the standards that are in here and the glare. 01:12:49
You know, opposing traffic that has a problem with. 01:12:56
Confusing traffic with. 01:13:01
In pedestrian. 01:13:03
Blockability issues from driving down the street if that glare is actually so bright you can't see. 01:13:05
Happens anymore because you drive up and down. 01:13:10
Most of the streets in the city. 01:13:15
Especially and even in the area. 01:13:17
There's a lot of. 01:13:20
Residential. 01:13:21
Lighting. It's on gates and fences and such. 01:13:22
The difference between those that are more acceptable and others that are might be. 01:13:27
And more pragmatic is the color. 01:13:32
And that's what would be. 01:13:34
Interested. I have the enforcement. 01:13:36
For construction, it would be anything. It would be the new construction. So a difference in new builds. Yeah, we need to have a 01:13:39
lighting plan show. 01:13:42
What's being proposed as far as security in the accent, that new construction, new remodel, that's an easier course because it's 01:13:47
in process. 01:13:51
Enforcing the new standards. 01:13:55
Existing that may have been for years and years and years and all of a sudden. 01:13:58
If you did. 01:14:07
I'm still, yeah. 01:14:12
But but it would be case by case based off of reported, correct? 01:14:16
And we define what the news we would do nothing unless there's no claim, essentially. 01:14:21
On existing. 01:14:26
You'd have to have if it's providing a nuisance issue, but they would what they would require the property to do. 01:14:31
Is to sort of register a non compliant. 01:14:38
Situation. 01:14:41
So whenever you have a new ordinance that's provided. 01:14:42
And that creates non compliance. 01:14:45
Situations like an Adu or a house. 01:14:48
We need to know when that was actually put in place. 01:14:51
If it's creating a nuisance with that new situation that's you have to implicit, you're equally at cost. 01:14:55
Yeah, 'cause I was looking at this like. 01:15:02
Any permit? 01:15:05
From the adoption point forward. 01:15:08
Would have to comply with these standards. 01:15:10
But what you're saying is? 01:15:13
We're going to put Nords in place. 01:15:15
Allows us to enforce non compliance. 01:15:19
That's from a grandfathered standpoint, like. 01:15:23
That's what's being proposed, yeah. 01:15:25
So the example is maybe like a safety issue, Rebel light, but the glare thing was blocked and carrying visibility pedestrians, 01:15:28
yes, today we couldn't do anything about it. Have anything that has a public nuisance factor for lighting. 01:15:35
Yeah. So, Mayor, I would look at it a little bit differently. I would think you would put a new ordinance in place to regulate new 01:15:43
construction for. 01:15:47
Permit required changes. 01:15:51
And then for things that exist prior to that overnight, you wouldn't unfortunately get into those unless you're creating public. 01:15:54
And as opposed to looking at your ordinance standards to define if they're non compliant, you would. 01:16:03
You would have to rely on the public nuisance standard and that's a tough standard to me, to be honest with you. Come on. 01:16:10
The situation would have to be extreme to take enforcement action against something like that. Yeah. And that's the main. 01:16:16
Right. And that's the existing condition in the law, right? 01:16:25
To be honest with you. 01:16:28
We wouldn't enforce it, but a neighbor can enforce. 01:16:29
A nuisance type situation against their neighbor. 01:16:32
Through independent action, this would allow the city. 01:16:36
To get involved in that, but our standard to get involved is really high. 01:16:39
And the circumstances where I think we would jump into something like that. 01:16:43
Would be pretty rare. 01:16:47
What it does do? 01:16:48
Is it creates that additional burden where? 01:16:50
The neighbor can now say, as opposed to us being able to tell them, look, this is a private issue, you've got it resolved. 01:16:53
They can lean on the city to say you need to enforce the nuisance standard of your ordinance. 01:16:59
That's a pressure point that's hard, and it's the Disney standard specified. Like, would there be? 01:17:04
Some specification of what that meant in the lighting section. 01:17:09
It's a common law, kind of with Phoenix. 01:17:13
And that common law standard is high again. 01:17:16
The concern that I think the Council should have that I have. 01:17:19
Is that that's your point of citizens not saying? 01:17:23
You need to enforce the nuisance part because under your niche then. 01:17:25
That constant pressure plays hard. 01:17:31
It's hard on your staff. 01:17:35
It's hard on you taking all the calls. 01:17:36
That, you know, that's just one of those points that I think as you start to look at regulations like this, you have to think, 01:17:38
Tom. 01:17:41
So sorry you were saying that as it stands though. 01:17:44
They'd have to take. 01:17:47
Private action medium which has to come to terms or. 01:17:48
They right now a neighbor could sue another neighbor over. 01:17:51
A life situation that creates enough of a nuisance that you would say that's just too much, right? 01:17:56
That exists a lot right now. 01:18:01
We don't necessarily have a right to get involved in that unless it's. 01:18:04
Creating some kind of a public safety habit, the hazard that is beyond just neighbor, neighbor. 01:18:09
But it's broader, right? And and that again, if you think about that, that's pretty extreme situation. 01:18:13
That does make sense. 01:18:18
So. 01:18:21
I mean, what we're getting at that here opens up a can of worms. 01:18:24
For homes that were built prior to the ordinance going in place right, we're. 01:18:29
We're OK with OK going forward. 01:18:34
And I think what Emily was getting at was. 01:18:36
Was. 01:18:39
Standards. Umm. 01:18:41
1:00 and 2:00 because I look at the same way, I'm like, I thought you'd want to go to standards 1 because standard 2 would be 01:18:43
like. 01:18:45
Put all this pressure on staffing and what you're saying is the opposite. We'd rather have more. 01:18:49
Control at the outset to take a look at what the lighting plan is for home and say, hey, here's what you can and can't do. Or you 01:18:53
tell them what they can and can't do, but then you have a chance to look at it, say you need to. 01:18:59
True. Tweet these things if you're comfortable with what. 01:19:05
Has a very high standard. 01:19:13
And it's being, I mean, we tweak every single one of the ordinances if there's an amendment is difficult rather than trying to 01:19:17
just change one section. 01:19:22
Having zones to point to your outdoor lighting section as your. 01:19:27
Force as far as amendments, or at least. 01:19:32
People protection unequal education is that. 01:19:36
Independent of whether or not we decided to include residential areas, would that be helpful? 01:19:40
Anyway, yes. 01:19:45
So John, can you talk a little bit about? 01:19:48
Staff time that would be involved in reviewing these new plans. 01:19:52
And then whether we expect any resident pushback to a professionally developed and submitted fighting plan? 01:19:56
Yeah. So right now over the past five years. 01:20:05
Plan review as. 01:20:10
Both and required to be expedited. 01:20:12
But also lengthened because we have now landscaping plans and other architectural use that we have go through. 01:20:15
So reviewing the additional lighting plan would add. 01:20:21
At least 1/2 an hour of reach half the sight line, which doesn't seem very much, but when you're having to go through. 01:20:24
Multiples through the summer and it does data so there is there is a cost required there for the staff review. 01:20:30
Cost of the South and then the cost of the residence, everything. 01:20:36
Yeah, right. 01:20:44
Is that the same for? 01:20:46
Standard one and standard 2 or the standard one? Basically standard one just provides both the. 01:20:50
Give me you can go to the manufacturer of the. 01:20:56
Picture in Mumbai we have a cut sheet. 01:20:59
That we can review that. 01:21:03
So specifically what we look at when we have professionals involved. 01:21:09
Is that just like an architect you know we have? 01:21:14
The ability to defend a decision whether or not a plan complies with the code it's been designed by professionally. 01:21:18
And not just reviewed by staff and making the determination. 01:21:25
So I think maybe I was misunderstanding the standards or the levels because it sounds like what you're saying is? 01:21:30
The level 1. 01:21:38
Is dealing with. 01:21:40
Just to really face like a really straightforward standard of. 01:21:42
Level of things I know that people can buy. 01:21:48
Is there a way you could? 01:21:50
Create similar straightforwardness. 01:21:53
And and still also create what you're talking about like. 01:21:57
Citywide lighting standards or is that not yes. So if you look at the the level 2. 01:22:00
Yeah, isn't it? 01:22:07
For the end. 01:22:13
There's a residential only section. 01:22:25
And that somewhat mirrors what the level 1 standard is. 01:22:29
There is so soon he will stay glad in families or single family zones. 01:22:36
So you have a full cutoff type, fixture height and maximum height through soffits. 01:22:41
Our lighting fixtures develop the seat height of 12 feet. 01:22:46
An illumination standard with a spectrum elevation and then. 01:22:49
Switching controls. 01:22:54
And that's pretty minimal. 01:22:55
Everyone has to hire lighting professional or add an extra. The lighting pressure is in the commercial section. 01:22:58
Oh, that's in the site plan review. Yes, practically what does that look like? Is that something where? 01:23:06
General contractor. 01:23:13
Has a lagging professional that does that for them. 01:23:14
Or is it is a? 01:23:18
President for having to go out and find. 01:23:20
A light and professional to do the review. 01:23:23
Generally the the architect who's making your plans. 01:23:26
Bring your mind to have connection. 01:23:29
It's usually a pretty simple gift. 01:23:32
But would that be another person? It would be another person they would have to hire. 01:23:35
Burdensome. 01:23:40
He seemed like he can't get anything done for less than 1000 bucks. Yeah, correct. 01:23:43
If there was a way. 01:23:51
To make a more straightforward plan then you could. 01:23:52
Address. I don't see how they're related. Maybe this is what I'm starting this? 01:23:57
You've got the complex. 01:24:02
Option where you have the light pressure will go in and customize everything. 01:24:04
But then I don't know how that relates to. 01:24:08
Creating a unified citywide. 01:24:12
Lighting 30. 01:24:14
You've got standards and you've got construction of the ordinance, right? 01:24:17
The actual Fighting standards. Simple, complex. 01:24:21
And how you construct it in code? 01:24:25
Spread out through all the zones or. 01:24:28
Consolidated, there's something to be two different. 01:24:30
Thanks. Yeah, yeah. 01:24:33
Because we can make the standard straightforward so that people aren't having to hire a light professional and you guys taking 01:24:36
extra time, but then take those straightforward standards. 01:24:41
And create. 01:24:47
What you were talking about about like over a? 01:24:48
No, I don't totally understand. 01:24:54
And as long as you're comfortable with staff reviewing things that the individuals who are like the last. 01:24:56
Point of contact to be doing all this. 01:25:01
Compliance. Absolutely, yeah. 01:25:05
I'm not a lying professional. I'm Steve. 01:25:09
Well, I know what can be garish as far as safety problem. 01:25:12
And what could? 01:25:19
Basically cause a problem across neighbors but. 01:25:20
A good example that I think I showed Gina a while back. 01:25:24
Some lighting fixtures were placed on a House of Renewed. 01:25:28
It was the element on the inside that we really didn't know how intense that. 01:25:33
Light was, I mean it was under the 4000 Kelvin level, so it was in a warmer light spectrum. 01:25:37
But it had the wattage intensity of probably only three or 400 Watt bulb. 01:25:44
And it was shining directly in the neighbor's property. 01:25:49
I didn't have the. 01:25:54
Details on that cut sheet to show me what the effective reflective light would be. 01:25:56
Only just a couple of times standard. 01:26:01
Design parameters of what the color and what the intensity would be. 01:26:04
So were you saying, John, without some specificity in the ordinance, it's going to put you in a position where you're making 01:26:09
subjective determinations that maybe? 01:26:14
I think you know, maybe you're not. 01:26:20
Bring a hammer to a screwdriver guy. 01:26:28
A handful of times it might happen. 01:26:35
Yeah, how often is this? The only lagging questions I've ever had is Moore Street. People wanted more streetlights. That's the 01:26:39
only thing that I ever hear in Lighting Minds. I've never had any. 01:26:43
Links about learning and things like that. I'm sure it happens. 01:26:48
Other questions How many new builds do we? 01:26:51
Are we open here? I forget is it we have around 3030? I had said that for yourself. 01:26:54
And we averaged for complaints. 01:27:00
Uh, no more than. 01:27:05
Dozen a year per year. 01:27:06
Yeah, that's tough. It's like one of those deals where. 01:27:09
You think? 01:27:12
You don't necessarily have a law for everything, right? 01:27:13
Can I just raise my point? 01:27:19
Just kind of looking forward maybe. 01:27:21
I think this is an important discussion. I understand the problem. 01:27:25
The desire to regulate this particular issue. 01:27:30
I don't know how it would be received by. 01:27:34
Builders, I know how it will be received by the general development community. 01:27:39
They would look at this as a step backwards as opposed to forwards. 01:27:45
Along the lines of what they're trying to get to in the law, It was a couple of years ago where? 01:27:50
There is a statutory. 01:27:55
Prohibition against regulating design elements. 01:27:57
And structures and I. 01:28:01
Proceed this. 01:28:03
Next year being added to that kind of list. 01:28:05
Something like that. 01:28:08
I think you could generally get a fairly strong reaction to this type of an ordinance. 01:28:10
It just kind of. 01:28:17
I think it would be characterized as. 01:28:18
A step backwards in that little broad spectrum of city regulation about. 01:28:21
Residential development as opposed to a step further. 01:28:26
So behind that, is there also a recommendation here? 01:28:31
Making with regard to. 01:28:35
I haven't tried to dive into the ordinance in every detail and look at every part. 01:28:37
I don't necessarily have. 01:28:45
Tremendous, I guess I would say hesitancy about regulating the lighting on these structures. 01:28:50
In a way that's reasonable. One of the things I hear all the time. 01:28:55
Is you're making me spend another 1500 or $2000? 01:28:59
With the plan for my remodel. 01:29:05
Or my house at all. 01:29:07
That adding another design professional is a big thing. 01:29:09
Right now. 01:29:13
I know you said. 01:29:16
Like. 01:29:18
To me, I guess because it's not massive. 01:29:21
Problem. I'd rather. 01:29:25
I'd rather have that approach than. 01:29:27
Requiring everybody to hire another professional and. 01:29:30
Yeah. And then to address the. 01:29:33
The principles of concern, you know about light trespass and and that. 01:29:37
If if your lighting design ends up. 01:29:44
Once installed. 01:29:48
You know, having a polite trespass problem the city. 01:29:50
Supportive of your neighbor's complaint. 01:29:55
You know, sort of thing where he doesn't put so much detail bonus on you guys. 01:29:57
But rather to encourage. 01:30:04
Conscientiousness as opposed to. 01:30:07
Overspecific prescription. 01:30:11
I think part of like this. 01:30:14
Came to the Council. 01:30:16
Community Compliance. 01:30:20
Well, two houses on Walker, but we've got one on Lakewood too. 01:30:25
That was built. That's got a. 01:30:31
Probably 20 foot peak like this and it's got these. 01:30:34
What do you call those thoughts at live to them and when they turn them on, it's like a Christmas tree and so it. 01:30:37
And so, but there are specific instances where, and I think what the Council is saying is. 01:30:43
Yeah, we've had specific instances that are problem, but do we want to? 01:30:48
Then go put in an ordinance that requires us to. 01:30:53
Hire a design professional which sounds like an. 01:30:56
We don't want to do that. Yeah. So I guess the question back to you, John, is? 01:31:00
Is there a more? 01:31:05
Is there any way that those? 01:31:08
Situations could have been avoided a little bit without taking a hammer. 01:31:11
To the ordinance and maybe there's not I don't know maybe we just have to even an educational PC. That's funny Mayor and John and 01:31:15
this last week went about two weeks in this Adu issue. 01:31:20
Where I love this line that this. 01:31:25
Constituent gave, he said. You know, dispute, I think it was. 01:31:27
Very justified his dissatisfaction with seeing you. 01:31:31
He told his neighbor. He said, look, you may have complied with. 01:31:34
The with holidays. 01:31:37
Law or rule? 01:31:41
But you didn't. 01:31:43
I would love to see it. 01:31:46
Where when builders come in or you know, or whatever, the first thing they should say is. 01:31:48
Think about the golden rule when you're building the home, yeah, or whatever. And that's. 01:31:53
The PowerPoint, you know, if we could address the principle wise and. 01:31:56
If there's some way, it's a. 01:32:00
I don't know. I know it's more of a persuasion rather than. 01:32:02
That we handle the law and whatever. 01:32:04
Call attention to these things best practices. 01:32:06
And we want to build our home. Those sofa lights are our builder discourse it because. 01:32:09
I think the exact discussion was that I like that, yeah. And I think the primary concern from staff would be. 01:32:13
It's not like you're inspecting something like as it's being built for compliance. 01:32:20
You're having to wait until the. 01:32:26
Are installed powered on at night to see. 01:32:28
It's like I know it when I see it type of situation. 01:32:32
So good stuff. And curtain would be what you said 12 completely right. Yeah, I think of that. 01:32:37
I could run the report, I'm not sure sure, it doesn't seem like it's. 01:32:42
That's not existing. Largely not existing. 01:32:49
Yeah. 01:32:53
It's largely on. 01:32:55
Version of existing lighting. Usually we'll get. 01:32:57
Individual who's installed with a spotlight or a ring Cam. 01:33:00
About those are pointed so very. 01:33:03
Egregiously the biggest obstacle. 01:33:07
I mean, it's justifiable. I mean, I think from a negative externality kind of thing, light trespasses. 01:33:10
There's a, there's a property, right? That's kind of to a degree. 01:33:16
But I agree, we could make it. 01:33:23
Not the hammer. 01:33:25
And more principle based, is that helpful? Sure. I mean if that's something that we want to take to the Planning Commission for 01:33:27
this Level 1 standard? 01:33:31
We can just insert that right in through. 01:33:36
And the R1 and R2 are the zones. 01:33:38
And it will address your concern with your nonperforming fixtures in that section that talks about. 01:33:42
Anything that would be installed at the time of this. 01:33:48
Adoption. Umm. 01:33:51
It would be grandfathers, essentially. 01:33:52
Non conforming by fixture. 01:33:54
When would you feel comfortable with that type of review? 01:34:01
Do you feel like your staff have the qualifications to do that type of review? 01:34:07
My staff is not trained at elimination. 01:34:13
Reviews. 01:34:17
But if I have a standard that says it has to be 4000 Kelvin and I have a cut sheet of the fixture that says this light is. 01:34:19
Meets that standard. 01:34:27
We would have to accept it. 01:34:29
And then go out and verify that what actually gets installed. 01:34:30
And that would be as part of the inspection. 01:34:35
Of the occupancy section. When would we do that? A separate inspection? 01:34:40
So I thought this is only going to be. 01:34:47
We have to verify that it's been completed and it hasn't been completed or incomplete and. 01:34:53
Potentially fall back. 01:34:59
So we're adding staff time, let's say 1/2 an hour for 35. So it's. 01:35:01
A weakish. 01:35:07
Of time a little more than. 01:35:09
These are new builds that aren't really the problem. This isn't the retrofitted. 01:35:12
Those were a lot of the complaints are coming from. Is that right? 01:35:17
Well, the arts, Well, the year is. 01:35:21
Replacement of existing fixtures, but then we do have the. 01:35:24
The homes that decided to put. 01:35:27
Well, the issue is not necessarily homes whipping lighting, it's homes where there wasn't a house before. 01:35:29
Mm-hmm. This was these two lots on. 01:35:35
Monitor were part of the larger piece that was subdivided out and they were heavily wooded. 01:35:39
They never had really a resident right up on, residents right up on. 01:35:44
And then they went. 01:35:52
And then in terms of other staff costs, we'll have let's say A2 hour minimum for an inspection after hours. 01:35:54
Or they provide some Zola grandchild. 01:36:04
So it's. 01:36:10
It's not an inconsequential expenditure from a staff to my perspective. 01:36:12
Is there? Could could be? 01:36:18
Maybe like. 01:36:20
Rather than go for it, could we take the easing and approach and is there, is there an opportunity to have the conversation at 01:36:21
least on every new build? 01:36:25
That like a box that you check. Like we've talked to them about being conscientious of their writing. 01:36:29
We have what's called project information guides. They're not ordinance, they're not law, right? 01:36:35
They're sort of. 01:36:40
Like here's Energy Star appliances, you can put it in the house. 01:36:42
It's it's specifically talks about types of fixtures that. 01:36:46
Are generally accepted. 01:36:50
I could show you what that guide looks like. 01:36:52
What color spectrums you should select through outside lighting, but you're handing it to panicking on them reading of what's 01:36:54
probably not gonna happen. You're handing it to the owner or to the builder, or usually this to the builder. 01:37:00
And that's, I don't think that one. 01:37:07
How we do that effective I on houses? Honestly, I rarely. 01:37:09
Interactive stuff. 01:37:13
But you do interact with the builder and that's where again I don't know if there's ways where. 01:37:17
Your staff, you just, you know, maybe it's kind of a preemptive. 01:37:22
Part of your dialogue that you have on a regular basis. 01:37:28
That's 20 seconds rather than two hours after hours and. 01:37:31
On site inspections and stuff like that where it's just. 01:37:36
Somehow weaved into the process where it's a. 01:37:39
Point was discussed. 01:37:42
You know where there's a plea made for sure. 01:37:44
Trying to decide where we're at on this discussion. Well, I mean. 01:37:52
Fall back on what my recommendation because. 01:37:55
The ordinance for having outdoor lighting should be all in one place. 01:37:58
Rather than sporadic and inconsistent. 01:38:03
Food's on design. 01:38:05
I think we're all cool with that, yeah. 01:38:07
Sure, yes. 01:38:11
I guess at a really basic level I'd like to understand whether there is support to move forward. This would mean, because it's 01:38:13
affecting Title 13, would need to go to the Planning Commission first. 01:38:19
So it. 01:38:25
This will get. 01:38:27
There's a lot of time involved if the Council is not supportive conceptually. 01:38:29
I think Todd has given us some. 01:38:36
Another perspective to consider in terms of how this type of ordinance could be interpreted at a state level. 01:38:39
Is there support on the Council? 01:38:49
From 4 of you to move forward with this type of ordinance. 01:38:52
Does moving it all to one place in the code require going to the Planning Commission? 01:38:56
I don't think we're going to avoid that. 01:39:04
And. 01:39:07
I think we. 01:39:09
That's fine, but is what you're asking Gina is. 01:39:10
Making. 01:39:12
Fundamental changes to the code beyond that, that's going to. 01:39:14
Umm, really involve. 01:39:18
Dramatically changing. Maybe not dramatically, maybe not, but substantially changing. 01:39:21
Staff time and requiring. 01:39:27
A homeowner or builder to hire a lighting professional. 01:39:30
It doesn't seem like there's an app, but we're not there yet primarily. 01:39:34
Like trespass, Yeah, and instead of? 01:39:40
Getting overly technical on the fixtures, but rather. 01:39:43
If you have. 01:39:46
A light trespass of a certainly measurement or beyond. 01:39:47
The city would support. 01:39:53
Complaint against you. 01:39:54
Yeah. But I think we need to understand that they don't engage. They don't. 01:39:57
But that's that's going to be a very high thought. 01:40:06
To enforce that right like what what's life drops past I mean, and I don't know if that. 01:40:08
Bar would be quite. 01:40:13
Sort of just a general nuisance standard overall. 01:40:15
To define like the issue. 01:40:21
Without having to get into measuring what actually. 01:40:25
Yeah. 01:40:28
Usually they address it by just saying, look, your picture has to have. 01:40:29
The full cutoff would work. 01:40:33
I can't perceive the source of the light. 01:40:35
Across the horizon. 01:40:38
So if I'm standing below a fixture, that's where I see the light element, or if I'm above it at level or above it, then I don't. 01:40:40
Problems that we have soffit lights when you're 35 feet in the air and that. 01:40:47
Spotlight bulb is definitely. 01:40:52
The element that you're seeing we're proceeding. 01:40:55
And that could go across the street, that could go, you know, to the neighbor's property. 01:40:57
Yeah, so that doesn't solve the problem. 01:41:03
Just. 01:41:05
Because if it's too high. 01:41:08
You solve nothing. 01:41:09
And so the issue is the light trespass regardless of the fixture. 01:41:11
Is there a? 01:41:15
Recognize definition of like trespass that we believe. 01:41:16
There is Dark Sky Association does have them. 01:41:21
We can. We can definitely put it in there. 01:41:23
The issue is how to measure it. 01:41:26
With a violation. 01:41:28
So I'm either standing at a property line with a light either. 01:41:30
Measuring amount of Loomis coming out of that fixture morning receiving what that where the element is. 01:41:33
I think it's it's more or less the indiscriminate use of. It's an issue on the radio night path. 01:41:41
Yeah, I mean, I also don't want to be bleeding edge. 01:41:47
Inventing a wheel here. We're not that I'm trying to address the principle of the problem and not. 01:41:50
But but I don't know if there's a way to do that without reinventing it or creating a new wheel. 01:42:00
Is there really a dressing kind of in the nuisance? 01:42:07
Principle not I don't know that. 01:42:11
Well, like if your neighbors. Yeah, I think I know it's. 01:42:17
Property that and you just leave that. 01:42:22
Less. 01:42:25
Just like a rational man standard. 01:42:27
I don't know, leave it up to the enforcement officer to make that determination. Is that that's probably fully subjective. 01:42:30
Yeah, that sounds like no way. 01:42:38
And I think Tom would much rather have standard. 01:42:43
Well, I think I mean the issue is we're trying to. 01:42:46
We've had. 01:42:50
A handful of incidents that are a problem, right? And so now we're trying to. 01:42:52
What you know. 01:42:57
Break this code to address those issues and I think what? 01:42:58
Emily's trying to get into their way. 01:43:02
Say, hey, yeah, let's combine the codes to make it easy. But then can we? 01:43:05
Address those handful of incidents through. 01:43:08
You know. 01:43:12
Through a nuisance code and trying to get code enforcement to work with the neighbors to solve the problems rather than. 01:43:14
Take a hammer to it and create a whole book. 01:43:20
Regs regulation and and and burden property of, you know, burden people with. 01:43:24
Now we gotta. 01:43:29
Now we got a higher lighting professional and now we got to have somebody on staff to review what the code is and then they got to 01:43:31
go. 01:43:34
I mean that's the issue is we're. 01:43:37
Nobody wants to do that at this point. 01:43:40
We haven't reached the point where we have enough of an issue that we want to do that. 01:43:47
On the other hand. 01:43:53
There is kind of this thing that if you let someone in, put in the light. 01:43:54
And then they're like. 01:43:58
I got the permit I put in there. 01:44:01
A neighbors man in your town? 01:44:03
Change. 01:44:07
Yeah. 01:44:09
They you say this is the standard. 01:44:12
When you go during the day during. 01:44:16
Inspection. They say they've got the standard. 01:44:18
Then their neighbor complained six months later. 01:44:20
That they're not meeting the standard. 01:44:23
And so then it's back on you. You said you met the standard, you signed something or whatever saying I'm meeting this standard. 01:44:26
So putting it on them rather than on staff during the inspection. 01:44:33
OK. Yeah, you may clear the standard, but we're not going to expect to inspect it. But then if there's a complaint and you're out 01:44:38
of it. 01:44:43
What's the approach where they're given? 01:44:52
It's a lot of hearing officer time. 01:44:57
But and the standard would be a like trust that standard that. 01:45:00
A fixture stand. 01:45:05
I'm not sure where we are other than. 01:45:08
More efficiently cleaning up the code, but I don't think that does anything unless I'm wrong. 01:45:11
Of addressing the original problem we are trying to solve here, right? 01:45:19
What's that? 01:45:23
Fiesta relatively small. 01:45:25
Yeah, it's a. 01:45:27
It's an isolated problem. 01:45:29
And the Council doesn't have, I think I'm summarizing it, the council doesn't have the appetite. 01:45:31
To put in an overburden some code. 01:45:37
To handle what are pretty isolated issues in terms of lighting. 01:45:41
Yeah, even though we're empathetic to the situation, I mean. 01:45:47
Yeah. 01:45:51
Situation. 01:45:54
It's hard for a building inspector to. 01:45:57
Verified that the. 01:46:01
Contractor has done what contract? 01:46:03
I mean. 01:46:06
I keep going back to Emily's. 01:46:08
Idea of where? 01:46:10
They can say, OK, this is the lumens of the lighting we put in. 01:46:11
But then later down the road they find out that that was not the case. 01:46:17
So that would go to code enforcement, right? So the code enforcement come back and. 01:46:22
Say, hey, you know, you said that you put these lights on, but you, you installed these lights, but in fact you installed 01:46:27
different ones that are brighter and now your neighbors are mad. 01:46:32
Yes, that could definitely be something I would definitely foresee happen is you can go back to the original approved set. 01:46:38
Verify that that was an approved fixture was to be installed. 01:46:45
And then coming back and saying that doesn't match up, that's definitely something at least. 01:46:50
The code enforcement situation. 01:46:55
Right. Could you explain the hearing officer concerning movies? 01:46:58
Well, what I was talking about is if you. 01:47:01
You adopt A certain standard. 01:47:05
For the lighting in the city. 01:47:08
You know the staff approves it. 01:47:10
Then a neighbor comes back and says you should not have approved that it violates your standard. 01:47:12
That ends up going through an enforcement process that involves. 01:47:17
City hiring and administrative hearing officer. 01:47:21
To hear the dispute essentially between the parties with the city. 01:47:25
Presenting information. 01:47:28
Making a decision and there's a cost to the city. 01:47:30
In that we pay the hearing officer. 01:47:33
Their staff time involved. 01:47:35
Sometimes you have somebody from our office presenting on behalf of staff this particular area issue. 01:47:38
It there is a cost to the city in that whole process, I wasn't thinking of them approving the plan so much as saying this is the 01:47:43
light trespass standard. 01:47:48
That you need to comply with. 01:47:52
And then and then whether we approve the plan or we hand out a standard and we haven't adopted standard in the city, I think you 01:47:54
end up in a hearing is a position with that either way. 01:47:59
Not something where. 01:48:08
Officer Gallop goes out with his light meter, measures that he said no, sorry you didn't, this doesn't. 01:48:10
Sure, sure, we get that. But then we still probably end up in an enforcement process. 01:48:14
Either way, whether it's from a third party, property owner or neighbor. 01:48:18
Or the city enforcing the code. Whatever it may be, we probably end up in enforcement process others. 01:48:21
Yeah. Well, what's the cost of that? 01:48:27
Prepared to 1500 bucks per. 01:48:28
Right, by putting these standards. 01:48:32
Yeah, you don't get as many that end up in front of you. 01:48:35
If I could if I can remedy the problem by changing out. 01:48:38
$150.00 fixture. 01:48:42
Or reducing the wattage or something, right? 01:48:45
The practical way you're going to see these things though, is I think is. 01:48:49
Three or four or five years after build. 01:48:53
Somebody changes the landscaping in their backyard and they want to light it. 01:48:55
In some particular way and then they put in a different fixture to light and then. 01:48:59
Hearing that enforcement process. 01:49:04
And it's just not a. 01:49:07
To be honest with you, it's not an intuitive thing necessarily most property owners to think. 01:49:08
So I think the lighting in my backyard. 01:49:13
Got to comply with some code that was present at the time I built my house. 01:49:17
But it does appear to their name. 01:49:21
I wonder if this is an issue. Those standards can be. 01:49:24
Simplified greatly if you want to just. 01:49:28
Take them as a case by case basis. So you have. 01:49:32
Outdoor lighting poles. 01:49:35
Like your support court lighting, they don't exceed a maximum bite and after you feel cut off. 01:49:37
There's a diagram in there that can be provided. Then this is what we're really looking for. 01:49:41
We're going to be looking for the warmth of the light, the Kelvin scale. 01:49:46
So that can be somewhat fairly easily verified. 01:49:51
Anything would be on the slot, like on the Gable ends where softer lights are installed. 01:49:55
If you wanted to have a standard, he says, your maximum saw the light. 01:50:00
Height is. 01:50:03
20 feet is the Max height of accessory buildings. 01:50:06
And generally the maximum height of a Gable and you move down that comes around. 01:50:09
The roof in the home. 01:50:14
They don't have lights above 20 feet. 01:50:18
And is that the approach that Cottonwood Heights has taken? 01:50:20
Yeah. 01:50:24
So what are you hearing? Definitely professional lighting requirements for a residential site plan review. 01:50:28
For commercial new builds, definitely in additions. 01:50:37
Strengthen the nuisance requirement requirement for. 01:50:43
After construction has been finished. 01:50:47
We're not going to have anything that has to do with occupancy requirements on. 01:50:50
Verifying. 01:50:54
Light fixture installations. 01:50:56
Although that does become that is part of your zoning standard. Everything in your zoning standard has to be compliant before 01:50:58
occupancy. Scranton. 01:51:02
You might want to look at that a little closer. 01:51:06
And then? 01:51:10
What's the other thing we're talking about? 01:51:12
Oh, and then I like trespass. 01:51:20
Yes, that would be taken care of by making sure that ethylene cutoff was. 01:51:22
And the maximum height of what the fixture would be. Those would be helpful things to look at to. 01:51:29
Address some of these kind of isolated incidents without. 01:51:34
Taking a hammer to the ordinance, Yeah, I've seen the photos of those houses. We can take a look at what that would have changed 01:51:39
in existences. 01:51:43
The only thing I'm worried about is when you have an upward lighting situation where your landscape lighting wall washes the front 01:51:48
of the home. 01:51:51
That is declared a reflection that creates like just gas. 01:51:56
Hope you got something you want to get into. 01:52:00
We're actually looking for the source of the life and regulate it. 01:52:03
So Todd, given what John has just identified as something that might be the structure of an ordinance. 01:52:07
How likely would an ordinance like that be? 01:52:13
Preempted next session. 01:52:17
You know landscaping plans. 01:52:39
Right now there's a lot of those things that are already. 01:52:42
Percolating. 01:52:46
And I just think that the. 01:52:47
I don't want to call it a salt. That sounds really pejorative, that salt. 01:52:51
Is ongoing. 01:52:55
Let me just do what Colin Heights did. 01:52:57
OK, that was a long. 01:53:03
Mayor, I'm still not sure. Do we have more people that are supportive of moving forward? 01:53:06
Period. 01:53:15
What John identified, John just bulleted out. 01:53:18
Based on what you heard though, what's the next step does that? 01:53:22
I mean, we know we're going to have to go back to Planning Commission if we combine. 01:53:26
Put the ordinances in one place, right? 01:53:30
Right. Can I make a suggestion there? I would rather come back here. 01:53:33
With the broader. 01:53:37
Kind of a. 01:53:38
The ordinance that we're talking about, before we go to the planning, yeah, yeah, I'd like to know if they're supported this like 01:53:39
from the policy standpoint. 01:53:43
Of what we're trying to reach before we go to the Planning Commission. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure we understand we're not 01:53:48
going to avoid that. It's going to have to go through a public process process regardless. But yeah, I agree with you that. 01:53:53
That we should agree on everything that's going to the Planning Commission before. 01:53:59
We send it to the planet policy. 01:54:03
Generally right. 01:54:07
Particularly to take it, yeah. 01:54:09
I agree. I'm not sure exactly what. 01:54:12
Guidance we gave John, but it looks like. 01:54:14
Yeah, yeah. 01:54:22
I'm interested in clothing. 01:54:32
For what they're doing. 01:54:35
Enforcement of this or the. 01:54:38
How they're making it work so it's not over burdensome on their staff because. 01:54:41
Concord Heights probably a similar. 01:54:45
Building Draper. 01:54:46
Still. 01:54:49
So I could see that being. 01:54:51
More burdens. This is how they're doing it, so it's not. 01:54:54
Physically problematic student enforcement growth. 01:54:57
Thursday. 01:55:00
Because Top Limits is really proud of their. 01:55:09
Lighting. 01:55:12
You're being serious on their Planning Commission meeting today. 01:55:17
Made a point to tell her that it's that they're. 01:55:23
They're lighting rather. 01:55:25
Are you telling you want to meet him by the flagpole? 01:55:29
Is reviewed by both the Design Review Board and. 01:55:46
All based upon provisional lighting. 01:55:52
Standards of professionals to design those plans. 01:55:54
And you're getting and that's what the result you're saying. 01:55:57
Yeah. Well, but yeah, that's a pretty focused geographical area. Yeah, commercial, because we're primarily hung up on residence. 01:56:02
Tell them that. 01:56:14
All right. That's fair. Well, thanks John. I appreciate that that was. 01:56:20
A lot of work I hope we got from there. 01:56:25
Yeah, yeah. 01:56:29
All right, so this is the. 01:56:33
The full review of all our thought. 01:56:37
Over the course of the year, right? 01:56:40
One at a time, yeah, something like that. 01:56:42
So we're candid 11. Yeah, We just want to walk you through. 01:56:45
Sort of in a speed dating way than. 01:56:49
Changes at clothing. 01:56:51
Starting first with Title 10. 01:56:54
This one has a significant number of changes. 01:56:57
But when you look at them closely. 01:57:00
What we're doing is adopting by reference a number of state fund provisions for the criminal. 01:57:03
It's an ease of reference. 01:57:09
Position for our police officers, they already cite to the state code on these criminal offenses. 01:57:12
We don't cite city ordinances. 01:57:17
And so we're trying to. 01:57:19
It's not a wholesale adoption of the state Criminal Code, but it approaches that. 01:57:22
We changed the title of the whole. 01:57:27
Title of title 10 to conform with current law. More contemporary references. 01:57:29
We've added definitions and severability sections in that first chapter. 01:57:34
And then as you go through these specific sections. 01:57:38
Like in Chapter 2, we deal with interference with public officers. 01:57:43
We've done an adoption of state code provisions because they are consistent with the way that we are standards and the way you 01:57:47
cite things. 01:57:51
So that one more fits into that mode. 01:57:55
And the offensively stories put it in with that. 01:57:58
When we talk about. 01:58:01
Interference with these officers and doing their duties, we've made a fairly good adoption to take other citizens and taken away 01:58:05
our separate city elements references for those. 01:58:10
That'll make it easier for our police officers. 01:58:15
The same thing is true with the bodily harm offenses like assault and battery with telephone harassment. 01:58:17
They were adopting the state code references there because that's more consistent with the way they're cited now. 01:58:23
In the gambling section. 01:58:30
We have retained our provisions that talk about the seizure and sale of property. 01:58:32
That we may take through the rest that relate to gambling operations. 01:58:38
How often that happened here, Holiday chief. 01:58:43
We've left them in for safety, say. 01:58:48
I don't know that. 01:58:50
Cities like Holiday very often pursue Forker Church. 01:58:52
For criminal offenses, but it gives us the opportunity if we leave this in there. 01:58:56
It was the sort of do that. 01:59:00
Again. 01:59:04
We are adopting by reference in Chapter 4 of the sex offenses provision to the state code. 01:59:07
Those change fairly often. 01:59:13
At the common law level and then through the state code. 01:59:17
And so our adoption of the state code there, I think will serve to keep us more current. 01:59:20
And it does again. Just keep making things easier on police officers. 01:59:26
The we have kept sections from our city code. 01:59:31
Relating to sexually oriented businesses and particularly. 01:59:36
Any that? 01:59:41
I guess sort of. 01:59:44
Tailor their operations to minors. 01:59:45
And we like our provisions and the terminology of our provision therapies. 01:59:48
And I guess the additional protection may add. 01:59:52
We've looked at those closely. We think they are perfectly legal and so we're comfortable staying with our language there. 01:59:56
Odd. Sorry real quick. 02:00:03
Do we know why you know? 02:00:05
This section 10 points. 02:00:06
04010 is highlighted. 02:00:08
And we still have questions on that for some reason or? 02:00:11
10.04 Yeah, the adult toys. 02:00:14
Oh, it shouldn't be highlighted anymore. 02:00:19
OK. It's we didn't have any questions. OK. I suspect that was OK. 02:00:21
I have a thing on my office working on. 02:00:28
OK, OK. I just wanted to make sure that was. 02:00:30
OK, Yeah. 02:00:34
The targeted residential picketing section that we adopted back. 02:00:40
Around the onset of the COVID pandemic. 02:00:44
We've gone to reference the state code. Now, when we first adopted that, I don't know that there was a state code provision that 02:00:47
matched that. 02:00:50
There is now and it's consistent with what the city adopted by the ordinance. And so we're. 02:00:54
Adopting that by organs and state code. 02:01:00
In the disorderly conduct section. 02:01:04
We have maintained some provisions from our code. 02:01:06
And we've done it for the added protection of schools. 02:01:10
And to be honest with you, you've got. 02:01:13
Another schools and holiday, and we like the idea of keeping those provisions there. 02:01:15
They would like to be unlocked on, you know, education institutions, consumption and possession of wealth and alcohol products in 02:01:20
public place out of those two parks and the schools in some respect. 02:01:25
And then the loitering and the camping and the fighting sections we left in at a specific request of Chief Oil. 02:01:30
There are certain parts of those that we use in the city. 02:01:36
In a way that. 02:01:41
Is not inconsistent with the state code, but adds some protections. 02:01:43
For our citizens. And so we're still OK. Like we step on Blue Moon Festival for instance, right? OK. 02:01:46
Or not what you do there in your festival like permit where you operate. 02:01:53
Begging is illegal. 02:02:00
It has some constitutional protection to it. Stopped. 02:02:04
And so we're careful and really we do that, but our camping ordinances now. 02:02:08
For a number of reasons. 02:02:13
That relate to. 02:02:15
The homelessness funding and the assessments of cities and so maintaining that ordinance is important and soon. 02:02:18
Right. 02:02:24
The sheep likes the fighting one because it. 02:02:28
Helps us get two people going at each other and. 02:02:30
And I've been about this. 02:02:33
Yeah. 02:02:39
OK. 02:02:42
And I I'll be honest with you, I'm looking at copyright's not. 02:02:44
Necessarily highlighted so. 02:02:47
What happened there? 02:02:49
Sometimes our version of. 02:02:51
The word processing in the cities isn't always the same. 02:02:53
When we look at the property damage chapter again, we without the state club sections, but we have gone through and retained from 02:02:59
the ordinance provisions that. 02:03:03
We think added additional protection for the city. This isn't the section where we're highly creating the state code so we can do 02:03:08
that. 02:03:11
You have specific. 02:03:16
Specific municipal authority to regulate some of these things and so. 02:03:17
We've left some of our. 02:03:21
I guess less traditional, but operative provisions in that section that we like. 02:03:25
Honestly. 02:03:32
Yes, we've we've left that in. 02:03:33
Juveniles are created. 02:03:37
Right. And so? 02:03:39
We'd like a little bit of more expensive. 02:03:41
And broad ability to site for a particular act where you might look at the state code to say, I don't know if that's. 02:03:44
That's one of the reasons why we stayed with our own language through Center. 02:03:51
We do have a. 02:03:57
A section that prohibits putting leaflets on Arch. 02:03:59
Some parking lines. 02:04:02
That's not necessarily regulated well by the state. Not clearly anyway. 02:04:04
I like that prohibition, I think. 02:04:08
So that's still in. 02:04:13
Even some of the other more sort of changes. 02:04:15
We have retained the. 02:04:19
Provision that. 02:04:22
Permits businesses. 02:04:24
To refuse service if somebody can't show valid proof of age. 02:04:26
For alcohol or tobacco. 02:04:30
There is a similar provision in state code, chief. I don't recall why we maintain this one here, you know. 02:04:33
I remember discussing it. 02:04:42
In the meeting we had, I don't remember the reason and I didn't. 02:04:44
People know about why we left it in that stuff. 02:04:47
I don't know why we would have either. I mean, especially where it's right, but it's not, it's not materially different than the 02:04:49
state coach based on the problem. We'll look at that one more time and decide if we're going to. 02:04:54
I stood out. 02:05:00
We kept your curfew provisions. 02:05:05
I think they are a little bit. 02:05:08
More clear than the state law provisions are, and you have authority to regulate that to. The extension may go beyond the state 02:05:10
code. 02:05:13
They're permitted to do that in this way. 02:05:17
Your curfew, minors for minors under 16 and your custodial liability sections are not unusual. 02:05:20
A lot of cities have provisions like that. 02:05:27
I don't think they're enforced very often. I don't think they're. 02:05:30
Used very often, but I think they could be useful in certain circumstances. 02:05:34
The exceptions that are in there are drawn well. 02:05:38
And they're tight enough that I think they cover the situation for you. What's the difference between 010 and 020? It says hours 02:05:41
of 1:00 AM to 5:00 AM. 02:05:46
There is one to five, and then under 16 is 11 to five. Yeah, 15. Which ones? 1:00 AM to 5:00. 02:05:52
16 and 17 year old. 02:06:04
Under 18. 02:06:06
Oh, I see. So if you're above 16 or 16 or older, you can. 02:06:08
Gotcha. OK. 02:06:14
Yeah. 02:06:15
The failure to supervise a minor. 02:06:21
Some of the offenses that are in the state code provisions related to that we've adopted by reference, some we have left in. 02:06:25
I think that's kind of for the communities and our police officers for the way we've cited that section, correct? 02:06:31
So. 02:06:37
We've used the city code to cite those, and so we've stayed with those. 02:06:38
In this case. 02:06:41
The defenses are. 02:06:47
New, but they're consistent with the state code is phrased a little bit differently. 02:06:49
In the weapons section. 02:06:54
This is one of those. 02:06:56
Situations where we have to walk carefully. 02:06:59
In the regulation of. 02:07:02
Of weapons. 02:07:04
On the liability of the custodian of a minor. 02:07:06
That section is. 02:07:09
Currently legally valid. 02:07:11
I haven't heard anything that would necessarily change that circulating right now. 02:07:14
I think it's a good provision to have given. 02:07:18
You know, contemporary events. 02:07:21
And so I. 02:07:23
The section says in addition, penalties in the state color custodian personal control of any minor who allows the minor to possess 02:07:27
a dangerous weapon. 02:07:30
Is liable for any damages caused by the miners use of the dangerous way. 02:07:34
It's a. 02:07:38
From a policy standpoint, it's not an unusual provision right now and I think. 02:07:41
Any contemporary events? It's probably. 02:07:45
And then your discharge of a weapon within city limits section. 02:07:50
You are specifically permitted to regulate this by the state code. You are specifically restricted in how you. 02:07:55
Regulate this under the state code and this provision sticks with them the state codes. 02:08:02
Restrictions so. 02:08:06
Any firearms? 02:08:09
Is that BB guns? Pellet guns? What does it mean? Yeah. 02:08:12
And it is one of your neighbors, Rob was talking about shooting squirrels with his pellet gun in your neighborhood, so I wondered. 02:08:17
That's a Is that illegal? 02:08:24
Yeah, Airsoft I. 02:08:27
I've been on a call, not in holiday but where a neighbor kid took a BB to the temple and almost died. 02:08:30
That this is interesting and I just love to have a follow up conversation because I status force had been read a bill today about 02:08:38
hunting and you know, we can't close the city to hunting. 02:08:44
And the squirrels are actually called out specifically as something that is allowed. 02:08:50
So I don't know how we're doing this without firearms. I just love to have that like conversation. 02:08:56
It's HP 309. 02:09:04
They are no. 02:09:13
No, they're not. 02:09:14
Because they're air. 02:09:16
Airsoft. 02:09:21
Those ones are OK. 02:09:22
They're OK, BB guns, they're OK. 02:09:24
BB guns generally did not fall under that provision. 02:09:28
Metal, metal versus metal Their metal bullet, metal projectiles as metal projectile. 02:09:33
Regardless of the company. 02:09:39
2nd but I mean, that's almost. 02:09:42
Impossible. I mean without them going and refiring to go to that gym. 02:09:46
Circumstances cause. 02:09:51
They can. 02:09:53
But we could for example on this. 02:09:56
Discharge we could. 02:09:58
Modify it to be if somebody was primitive for a fever, for example. 02:10:00
Permit. The problem is is you can't trap them very effectively because. 02:10:25
Of the risk of dogs that will. 02:10:29
Cloud in the trap, but. 02:10:32
He will come and shoot them. 02:10:34
He said in this case. 02:10:36
I don't know if it's just I had several constituents that were prepared and wanting trees and stuff like that they wanted to set 02:10:39
up. 02:10:42
And and. 02:10:46
That's something I'd want to look at before we decided what to do with that. 02:10:49
Statute. 02:10:53
And then we have an. 02:10:58
The very end, the sections that we are adopted by references to that. 02:11:00
So if you have any specific questions about Title 10. 02:11:06
Other than the one that. 02:11:12
So the interference of the glucose server. 02:11:17
We're just tracking the state. 02:11:20
We are tracking the state code. We review some of our own language. We've retained a little bit other than certain sections. 02:11:21
That the chief specifically requested. 02:11:27
They ever and Chief, I think I've got this one right, but overtime that's one section where we have cited the city ordinance. 02:11:29
And not just to the state vote division. So we're trying to keep that for the. 02:11:36
And what what if he decided wanting to finish? 02:11:41
And by and large, on that one in particular, we. 02:11:44
Probably 9090% of the time we're tracking on the state code when we start assembly with that. 02:11:49
But that interfering with a police officer is. 02:11:54
Your or what? Everybody knows there's a business arrest. 02:11:57
Is generally into deprecation of that, so everybody. 02:12:00
Image under arrest and they don't comply. That's interfering with that. 02:12:03
That everybody understands that that's a lot better. 02:12:08
Management, yeah, so as. 02:12:12
Is that every year somebody in your office is just reviewing that And we do try to, we do try to track and pick that. Your 02:12:18
prosecutor does a little bit of that also. 02:12:22
And Chief Oil's office. 02:12:28
Item also. 02:12:31
And objects. 02:12:32
What happens more often than not as opposed to the actual? 02:12:35
Citation number in the state code changing the substance of it changes a little bit. 02:12:40
Which doesn't require a change to it. 02:12:46
Or anything for the reason reference to it, yeah. 02:12:47
And then moving to Title 11. 02:12:52
We have adopted far less of this with sort of a wholesale import from the state code. 02:12:54
These are your traffic offenses as a general rule. 02:13:00
And so. 02:13:03
The wholesale adoption of the state code is not. 02:13:04
As significant as. 02:13:09
What you saw in Title 10. 02:13:11
In the definition section we have a couple of definitions worth. 02:13:13
We've changed with the alley definition. We're going back to the state code, but. 02:13:18
The low profile motorized vehicle definition we are adding. 02:13:22
In fact, not interested. 02:13:26
There is not a definition. 02:13:29
There is one more for your now. 02:13:34
Electric. 02:13:38
Vehicle Twitter out there like bicycle electric vehicle. 02:13:39
And that looks further down, but we've added that will come up a little bit further down later. 02:13:43
Yeah. 02:13:47
The low profile motorized vehicles are a real danger. 02:13:50
Yeah, which scares and so, yeah, so. 02:13:53
Added some regulation. 02:13:57
That is that still when you say you're out of that like that is brand New London paper for and we're expecting. 02:13:59
Have similar language to that one and I think our language. 02:14:08
He said it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 02:14:15
Say again, I think you are freaks. Regulation. 02:14:17
So those little more people are, we're not allowing them. Or would it be unless they are? 02:14:22
Meet the regulation to be registered, not. 02:14:30
So just like a motorcycle then where you go get a registered? 02:14:35
You're right down the street. They would have to meet the same criteria. They can get a license plate. 02:14:39
And I think the other stipulation we have in there is that they have to have assurance. 02:14:43
I'd like further dialogue on them. 02:14:48
No way insurance. 02:14:52
So would you like further conversation tonight or I don't know, is tonight the night to do it? 02:15:00
Yeah, so. 02:15:09
You remember where we put this? I tried to just do it right? 02:15:11
Page. 02:15:15
Both I think. I think rather have the conversation. 02:15:19
Page 25. 02:15:24
11 and 25 below profiles on Page 3. 02:15:25
And that's a definition for the actual prohibition itself. Page 11. 02:15:29
Yeah, it's 11. 02:15:38
Dot 12.020. 02:15:40
In my draft, you see it. 02:15:43
11:35. 02:15:46
11 dot 12.0215. 02:15:48
I sent this too. Dirt of you not ready yet. 02:15:55
We are putting in some active transportation past in the near future. 02:15:58
39th and. 02:16:03
2:15. 02:16:04
Highland Drive. 02:16:06
We're just curious if this would also impact that. 02:16:07
This prohibition is really brought. 02:16:25
It takes them out of not just the public streets, but public place parks. 02:16:27
So sorry, 11 by 12.020 right, right, yes. 02:16:36
And the definition will. 02:16:41
The definition stricken because it's moved to the definition, but under that the prohibition. 02:16:43
Violation and so this would mean that. 02:16:54
Every electric scooter. 02:16:57
Yeah, I think this is crazy, personally. 02:17:01
I don't think so. We've got cars and you've got bicycles and they're both allowed. 02:17:05
Now you've got this middle ground. 02:17:10
Where it's electrified. 02:17:12
Bicycle. Welcome to 21st. You've got motorcycles and those are plated, so you're talking about. 02:17:14
Like electric scooters and stuff. 02:17:20
So, yeah, so this is probably worthy of a little discussion. Is this bad? There are so many different classifications of all these 02:17:22
different. 02:17:27
Electric. 02:17:32
For lack of veteran electric vehicles, yeah, you got the guys right. There's the bikes, you know, wheel things, and there's a 02:17:33
whole lot of different. 02:17:37
There are end class. 02:17:42
Yeah. And then the three of the 28. 02:17:46
And then there's restrictions on. 02:17:49
Which page and write those and. 02:17:52
Not in this one specifically. That's. 02:17:57
There's another section later on that we reference state statute. 02:17:59
More specific for electric vehicles. 02:18:03
Or for electric. 02:18:07
Electric vehicles are better. 02:18:09
Terms explained. 02:18:10
It's further down. 02:18:12
But this is not E bikes, this is. 02:18:14
This is a low profile vehicle and scooters. 02:18:17
Sorry, there's there's some of these. 02:18:20
I mean, you've seen it look just like a motorcycle they're out riding that are just electric and surrounds. 02:18:24
What do they call it that can mean those? 02:18:30
That's the one where you're at the footplate 1. 02:18:33
Versus the one you melt like a motorcycle. 02:18:38
Or like a Vespa. 02:18:41
And scooter is pretty broad definition, it can be just a standard bike. 02:18:43
I don't know. I know, I know that I. 02:18:50
I don't want to. 02:18:54
Discount challenge that I've sorted is for officers that are doing states issues and all of that but at the same time. 02:18:56
I just. 02:19:02
I'm more concerned about the age. 02:19:05
People on these. 02:19:06
Because if you have a. 02:19:08
Not that 16 year olds are terribly bright as I have on myself, but like I see 16 year olds on these and then I also see like 11 02:19:11
girls. 02:19:15
On these And that's a good girl. 02:19:19
For me that's. 02:19:23
Sorry, I'm just showing you there. I think it's. 02:19:27
That's that. 02:19:32
And the hard part for us, to be honest, especially this last fall, I don't know what prompted, we started getting a lot of 02:19:39
complaints about. 02:19:43
And especially up here, we see a lot of these and I think. 02:19:47
I can't put a thumb on what area, I mean there's so many different variations of these. 02:19:50
Motorized type vehicles that are electric and we're getting tons of complaints of and you've got every age I mean I had. 02:19:54
One day a kid that I was going on Holiday Blvd. and he's on something. He's going faster than I am going up and I'm doing the 02:20:01
speed limit down Holiday Blvd. He's passing me on the right on some be something. 02:20:06
Yeah, you know, and that's the hard part because we don't really have buzzing around the cul-de-sac versus Murray Holiday Rd. 02:20:12
Exactly, you know, and so how do you even out at my house, out by my house about. 02:20:20
West Jordan. 02:20:25
Just this last fall, I mean, I had six people that took over 5600 W on these and wouldn't let anybody. They just. 02:20:27
Swarmed it, took it over. 02:20:33
So. 02:20:36
Big enforcing. 02:20:37
Most, I mean, a lot of it's going to be education. 02:20:40
You know, especially in the beginning because people are going to know and then if this is adopted. 02:20:43
It's going to be education, but then it will start for. 02:20:48
Resort to citations after an education period. 02:20:50
It's really hard because I get to think about it. 02:20:57
But at the same time I see like Bluetooth. 02:21:00
10 and 11 year olds writing a smoothie down the street and. 02:21:03
You still know where we're gonna? 02:21:06
What are we gonna do about that? 02:21:08
And that's where discretion comes into it. I mean, are we going to really write a 10 year old a ticket for right right down the 02:21:10
street, you know, and in a residential area? 02:21:15
Versus somebody that like I was just. 02:21:20
Referring to the kid that's writing. 02:21:22
Whatever. 02:21:25
I don't even know what it was something. 02:21:27
Makeshift E bike type of a thing but was going past me on the right down there. You know somebody like that that's. 02:21:29
That's a speeding violation. Yeah, right. What I would love to see is to see. 02:21:35
As far as the law is concerned. 02:21:40
Is that happen? Address the behaviors, not necessarily the. 02:21:42
And so whether it's speeding or erratic. 02:21:46
Out in the road a little bit lower. 02:21:49
Something that creates an unsafe condition. 02:21:51
Then I don't have an issue. 02:21:54
We also have to figure out what types of vehicles need to be. 02:21:56
License plated and insured because that that line, that's a grayer area. 02:21:59
Yes, because where because you've used to be very clear, we had to get bicycles and you had cars and now you've got. 02:22:04
Everything. Everything in between so. 02:22:12
Where do you draw the line now between what needs to be licensed and insured? 02:22:15
And if it's licensed and insured, then you better have a driver's license. 02:22:20
That that line has got to be the same too. 02:22:23
When it's not dead, winter. 02:22:32
You have a lot of kids riding these. 02:22:33
Little electric scooters up the hill. 02:22:36
To school and that saved the parents from. 02:22:39
You know, driving them. So, yeah. So what side of the line is that on? So. But then you got golf carts too, and fun. 02:22:43
It teaches. 02:22:51
Necessarily teaches them responsibility and to some extent, I mean, there's just all kinds of stuff. 02:22:53
My personal take on this is I would not stick this in here. I think it. 02:22:58
I think we should talk about it more. 02:23:02
Come up again. My personal favorite. Come up with something that addresses the behaviors that are a problem. 02:23:04
And there potentially I think it points its own public hearing also wouldn't extend the ability for a 12 year old to go drive your 02:23:10
car. 02:23:14
No, but I would buy a scooter. 02:23:20
Yeah. But all I'm saying is where do you draw the line? Does the line need to move now because you have such a larger range of 02:23:22
vehicle options now didn't have? 02:23:27
Ten years ago. 02:23:32
Or do you still say what's the definition of the Carnet because? 02:23:33
Yeah, that's right. Fully electric cars net, yeah, that's where I think you could stick with the relates to E bike the standard. 02:23:36
Define. 02:23:44
Maybe there could be some that a lot of those lines and then. 02:23:46
But again, I think. 02:23:49
Speed limit is really good. 02:23:50
The defining factor, right? 02:23:52
I mean, because I think our conversation on this issue was things that looked really tough to see for people in low profile. 02:23:55
But how does that differ from a kid right now bike? 02:24:07
They're so low. 02:24:11
The speed. 02:24:15
Like so signatic. 02:24:18
Yeah, yeah. But I don't know. 02:24:19
I mean, on some of these motorized bikes, when you're talking to some of these pocket bikes, you get these little. 02:24:21
Little mini bullet bikes that are out there that. 02:24:26
You won't even see some of those that are out there and again it comes into the classifications. 02:24:30
Told them. 02:24:35
Adjust this because I think that Ty has a point that we want to address. 02:24:40
Well, I mean, to me it's it's. 02:24:46
At what point does it cross the line in terms of affecting public safety? Because. 02:24:49
I think where Ty is coming from is it's not. 02:24:55
It's like golf carts. We had the big deal with golf carts in our neighborhood. We finally said look. 02:24:59
These parents know the kids are riding these golf carts and they and. 02:25:04
That as long as they understand if something happens, they're liable. 02:25:08
For a kid, an underage kid driving. 02:25:12
Because it is illegal in our city, but it is illegal. It's illegal in our city, but we're not going to be out there actively 02:25:15
enforcing kids. 02:25:19
You know we're going to have police officers patrolling neighborhoods looking for kids driving in golf carts. 02:25:24
And I told a number of people I'm like. 02:25:29
You want to let your 12 year old drive a golf cart and they get the wreck or they hurt somebody, you're liable. 02:25:32
And that's where this is. It's. 02:25:40
The people that complain to me. 02:25:42
Want us to? 02:25:44
Enforce what should be a parental responsibility on those kids. 02:25:47
And where is that line is the question is. 02:25:54
Where is the? Where is the line from? 02:25:58
Them wanting to. 02:26:00
Outlaw something that they should be controlling with their kids and that creating a public safety issue. 02:26:02
For the residents of the city. 02:26:09
I don't know what that is, but. 02:26:11
Well, maybe it goes back to point that it's. 02:26:13
It's about the behavior. So if they're driving. 02:26:15
They're speeding or they're driving erratically. 02:26:18
Which is uh. 02:26:21
That the kids that I see like. 02:26:22
They can be responsible. 02:26:26
I don't think even one of our officers is going to stop a couple of kids right there. Most Peters little 2 wheeled. 02:26:29
You know which is which is fair, but the thing I hate to have was. 02:26:40
Hate to have lies. 02:26:44
Let me just turn one night to, you know, right, We're gonna have a lot. 02:26:45
Exactly. That teaches a little bit, right? No, I don't district disrespectful. I don't disagree at all. 02:26:49
Statute ordinances like this have a place because when something does go terribly wrong. 02:26:59
It firmly puts the issue of liability on the parents. 02:27:05
I mean, if there's nothing in the statute, then the parents could turn around and sue the. 02:27:12
The card that hit the kid, even if the kid and all, was completely a fault I think. 02:27:18
You know, from an enforcement. 02:27:24
Point of view, I think that's kind of where I am is. 02:27:25
Maybe it's a? 02:27:29
We don't look at it as a coordinates that's never going to get enforced. We're going to look at as an ordinance that will. 02:27:31
Established liability when that's needed, the rights of way issue, you know, because generally pedestrians and cyclists have right 02:27:36
of way over cars. But then what are these grey area vehicles? 02:27:41
Recyclers are they? 02:27:46
Same as a vehicle, how do you treat? So my concern time is that. 02:27:49
Is it takes on a difference so? 02:27:53
Angle in the. 02:27:57
The ground shifted beneath our feet from a few years ago because of the product set. Yeah, for sure. And so that's I think is 02:27:58
what's worthy of discussion that the. 02:28:02
There's no longer a bright line between. 02:28:07
Cars and bicycles. 02:28:10
And that's where. 02:28:12
You need to figure out where the line is now because there's a big Gray area. 02:28:15
Car and bike and what should be licensed and insured? 02:28:19
What is it? Gross weight? 02:28:23
Because, you know, you get a kid. 02:28:25
Driving a heavy duty. 02:28:27
Quasi car bike. 02:28:30
They can do a lot of damage. 02:28:32
And so is that something that should be? 02:28:33
An insured and licensed product. 02:28:36
And I don't know what. 02:28:38
Is that a little teeny scooter? No. 02:28:39
But like I say, there's a broad product set between what was a car and a bike, and that was my only. 02:28:42
It used to be very easy for us before the world came around. 02:28:48
If it was under 50CC's they'd have to be registered. They were. It was easy to know. 02:28:53
Right, you know, and everything had those modifications or those markings on it, but we could know very easily if. 02:28:58
If a motorcycle or a scooter type thing was legal or not but. 02:29:03
We don't. 02:29:09
It's so convoluted for us. We just. 02:29:10
And that's the issue. 02:29:14
What was the question? 02:29:17
The investment state, I've not heard discussion. 02:29:19
This two years. 02:29:22
It was three years ago, I think, when they hit the golf cart. 02:29:24
Thing and the golf cart one just basically says. 02:29:27
Unless a city adopts an ordinance specifically allowing for golf carts, they're illegal. 02:29:31
Yeah. 02:29:37
What are other things? 02:29:39
We lifted this from milk cake. 02:29:42
And there is like I said, there's further down in this it gets more specific into the E world and there's an actually a state 02:29:45
statute that we. 02:29:48
There's that in there. 02:29:52
And if that's awesome, Pellisses ebikes understand. 02:29:54
Yeah, it gets. 02:29:57
I'm trying to remember where 26, is that what it was? I think it was difficult towards the end. 02:29:59
Well, I don't know. 02:30:13
I'm just. 02:30:15
Your libertarian roots. 02:30:21
Sprouting a branch. Well, I was a kid that grew up riding my motorcycle up and down. 02:30:25
And it was the way I got to my fence and it was a big, huge, long, ugly hill to go up there and. 02:30:31
I've got a six year old. 02:30:36
Ride a bike as well as anybody in this room in. 02:30:38
Is that anyway? 02:30:42
It's just I don't know. 02:30:45
I don't, I hate. 02:30:47
I want kids to be outside. I want them to play. I want them to learn responsibility. I want them to learn limits. I want, you 02:30:49
know, all, all the things. 02:30:52
Society today. 02:30:56
Is down with all this stuff and he's it's just killjoys, you know, it's like. 02:30:58
So. But the limits are all set by the parent. There's no public safety limit. 02:31:03
I think again. 02:31:09
No, there is a public safety limit, absolutely. 02:31:11
Fee limits and what people, I think it's reasonable to say what what does a person need to get on the bike? 02:31:13
You know, under human power, I guess. 02:31:21
Probably not the most different thing. 02:31:25
Acceleration. 02:31:28
Can you talk about speed loads and, like, breathless striping? Yeah. 02:31:31
Yeah, I mean on the golf cart thing, I think of my neighbor Josh told us and told you guys remember watching. He was. 02:31:35
His parents. 02:31:45
You know he would drive super slowly on the side with very respectful. 02:31:46
And it's like, why should we? 02:31:50
Different from being able to do that. 02:31:53
Well, they don't have the same judgment. 02:31:57
I mean, even if they're you're teaching them sums up. 02:31:59
I used to feed children at this game of church because the dog. 02:32:03
Thumbed out pretty much. 02:32:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're also just the safety features of the vehicles. You've got street legal and not street legal. 02:32:12
And what type of vehicle is required to have street legal lighting? 02:32:19
And what ones aren't? 02:32:24
So the little, the little green, you know, Lime scooters aren't going to have full street legal, you know, blinkers and such. 02:32:26
But you know, I know in my neighborhood there's a lot of. 02:32:33
There's a bunch of golf courts. 02:32:36
And I don't mind the golf cart so much, except that. 02:32:37
Frequently you'll have. 02:32:40
A group of 12 year olds hanging off a golf cart. 02:32:41
After dark and it's not lit and that's a behavioral. 02:32:44
Yeah, but it's also public safety issue. 02:32:48
Those those. Like I said, those are the types of things I like to see. 02:32:54
And not necessarily the. 02:32:59
Active responsibly. 02:33:00
You know. 02:33:02
Thanks. I mean today's scooter, AE scooter and today's E bike and yesterday's you know, BMX bike and whatever and I just. 02:33:04
So. 02:33:12
It would be rough through the council like us to go back and try and refine this. 02:33:16
A little more and bring it back to you. 02:33:22
Or are you comfortable with the language as it is? 02:33:25
I know we're tires. 02:33:32
If I'm alone, know that. 02:33:35
That's OK, no idea that. 02:33:37
I get your points, don't. 02:33:44
Like somewhere between? 02:33:46
Nothing. Umm. 02:33:48
Not allowed and everything. 02:33:50
Well, and I'm again. 02:33:52
Everything I'm. 02:33:54
Responsible behavior, but how do you codify that? 02:33:56
What is this? A low profile vehicle? 02:34:01
This clarified from you, our low Prof. 02:34:05
Vehicle is the way this is written. 02:34:08
Any motorized vehicle that is not regulated by the state or any other city or its provision. 02:34:13
Is not otherwise permitted upon city. Oh, so this is the I'm sorry, I'm confused because it's flying out right? So. 02:34:18
It just. 02:34:24
I see. So it's basically saying. 02:34:28
Yeah, gotcha. And that's what your issue is, is? 02:34:30
You just think that's way too broad. 02:34:33
Well, if I want to characterize the route, I'm very sure that both the definitions. 02:34:36
Do you think the brochure? 02:34:42
Thank you. 02:34:45
Yeah, again, I would like to see the legislation look at. 02:34:47
Irresponsible behaviors and address that. 02:34:51
Can I suggest something? 02:34:54
I haven't heard tremendous discomfort from the Western Council on this, but I have heard willingness to consider Ty's points. 02:34:56
Ty, do you want to? 02:35:03
Talk with me and work through something that you think is a better proposal. 02:35:04
That we can bring back to the council. I love that. Yeah. And I look for some resources. I'm asking. There's some things out 02:35:09
there. 02:35:13
I'd be happy to research some other cities ordinances as well, or see if there's some other. 02:35:18
Bottom 2 To Jared's point, American General separating notepads, they're going to come into the city. 02:35:24
Prohibiting something like that. 02:35:31
As you enter into the boundary, if they're on a separate bike path, we can. 02:35:33
Automatic and then you actually. 02:35:38
If there were amusement in the undesignated route. 02:35:42
So for purposes of moving this along, why don't we? 02:35:46
Do that. 02:35:48
One of the other issues that I just wanted to. 02:35:50
Talk to you shortly. The high level. There have been places in our traffic code where. 02:35:53
Their designation of authority of Cincinnati City Engineer. Some designations of authority of the city manager. 02:35:56
We've made some. 02:36:02
I think I would call in conscious decisions of where to go city engineering, where to go city manager. 02:36:04
We've sort of tried to hit those points at a policy level where. 02:36:09
You know, we think. 02:36:14
War against refined policy calls. We want those to rest. Let's see the United dirty. 02:36:16
But always on the traffic issues with the advice of the city engineer. 02:36:21
So if you haven't paid attention to that in the draft, we think it's a good thing to do that, make sure we get the balance right. 02:36:25
Things we have. 02:36:32
But if you would watch that most of the time. 02:36:34
With sort of more technical. 02:36:37
In Chapter 2, the traffic control regulations, there are very few changes there. 02:36:48
Generally is a section of this now, but one thing I do want to highlight for you. 02:36:55
You have a provision in your traffic code that allows a city to create. 02:36:59
Truck routes. 02:37:05
Which is. 02:37:07
A way of sort of channeling heavy truck traffic within the city in certain ways. 02:37:08
I guess. 02:37:16
To say this the best way I can. 02:37:17
We think. 02:37:19
We've got that section. 02:37:20
In the code. 02:37:22
We think it needs some further follow up. 02:37:23
That will be proposing. 02:37:26
Probably some supporting information. 02:37:29
Gather and and. 02:37:31
Presented the council that would bolster that section of it and think that 19 working. 02:37:34
There's some significant development that may be occurring outside of your city boundaries but affecting holiday. 02:37:47
That would use major thoroughfares like WAS, Edge Blvd. 02:37:53
And we'd like to keep those heavy trucks. 02:37:56
Off of some of those sections of loss absolutely think they could do some damage to. 02:38:00
And that would be really disruptive to our residents, so. 02:38:04
We want to look at how it's 1/4. 02:38:08
The existing truck growth we have designated a little bit. 02:38:10
More fully and better. 02:38:14
To write something that is important by the future. 02:38:16
In the Drastic chapter 12. 02:38:20
The sections that are there are. 02:38:23
Pretty much the same as they exist now. 02:38:25
The new traffic card. 02:38:27
In the speed limit section. 02:38:30
We have made some updated references to the state code about changing a substance we've. 02:38:32
Address the city Manager and city engineer distinction in some of those sections. 02:38:37
But otherwise, the regulations don't look much different. 02:38:41
In chapter 20. 02:38:45
There are very few changes again. 02:38:47
And they're not substantive in nature for the most part. 02:38:50
I know that we've had some complaints and some. 02:38:57
Other questions about making it illegal to. 02:39:00
And I think that's something maybe that's. 02:39:07
So maybe when they seem to start? 02:39:10
Tonight, but and we have that on the agenda for our work session discussion next. 02:39:12
On the sense. 02:39:19
We have. 02:39:25
Deleted a large section. 02:39:27
That's, you know, your parking prohibitions and specific areas. We have afforded the state code provision there. 02:39:29
I think that's helpful both practically and politically. 02:39:36
Sometimes you don't. Parking manipulation. 02:39:40
Yeah, something. 02:39:42
I think of reference to sleep confirmation that sometimes is helpful. 02:39:44
Just into the broader planning reference. 02:39:49
And what we imported was I got to the let you. 02:39:51
It's not different. 02:39:55
So your neighborhood parking program? 02:39:56
We have brought in just as it exists now. 02:40:00
That around the current colony area and. 02:40:03
We've had some discussion about whether there are things we could do to strengthen that and whether we need to strengthen that. I 02:40:06
think we're taking an additional look at it, but right now. 02:40:11
That's just being brought in here. 02:40:16
As it exists now. 02:40:18
John, I thought we didn't talk. 02:40:19
Neighborhood parking program. 02:40:25
That you can't park on dirt in your front yard. 02:40:27
The safe and parking by getting right there, that was the next. 02:40:34
112145. 02:40:39
This is the section that has been requested by members of the Council. 02:40:42
It addresses a code enforcement problem that. 02:40:47
Has occurred, I guess I would say spades in my neighborhood. 02:40:50
But it's recurring. 02:40:54
114511. 02:40:56
18 by 145. 02:40:59
That may be 1 you want to pay attention to because that's a regulation do we haven't adopted that. 02:41:04
That doesn't exist in the code. That's not. So this is new, Yeah. So we should have highlighted that that should be different 02:41:10
because I don't. I don't know that, yeah. 02:41:13
Yeah, umm. 02:41:18
Yeah, yeah. 02:41:32
It will be helpful in the future as we. 02:41:33
Attending have more? 02:41:35
They've developed. 02:41:37
How about you get the chairs and both heavily on the side of the house test? 02:41:44
That's still required. 02:41:48
Yeah. So did you say that the landscaping ordinance? 02:41:49
Limits the. 02:41:53
That's great. Oh, that's great. That's great. Yeah. Nose. 02:41:56
Having this compact gravel and. 02:42:01
Something out of. 02:42:03
Yeah. So this is a little bit of a conflict. 02:42:05
Yeah, I was going to say so if somebody first. 02:42:08
Fresh granite through their whole front yard than they could. 02:42:11
Parked cars in their whole front yard. 02:42:15
That's what this one has relaxed. 02:42:17
Can we limit that? 02:42:20
That's what this section knows about that. 02:42:22
It's not. 02:42:27
Limiting the type of material it is limiting. 02:42:29
Parking. 02:42:34
To be on that material. 02:42:35
Yes, to be on the person. 02:42:39
Because I think this is saying if we have it all as compacted gravel, then we can put five cars in my. 02:42:46
That's my concern is there should be some. 02:42:55
Portion of the front yard that's actual landscaping. 02:42:58
Rather than making your whole front yard a parking lot. Yeah, there still is requirement for. 02:43:02
It's 50% requiring us to be. 02:43:09
That's good. OK. That's what I was asking. So that. 02:43:11
Perception by with. 02:43:15
Yeah, Yeah. I think that reference would be helpful. Are you going to, are you writing that? Yeah. 02:43:19
Since the enforcement Thursday. 02:43:32
Section on traffic and parking on school grounds is as it is. 02:43:40
We have adopted by reference to state provisions related to DUI. 02:43:48
With driving while intoxicated, that's how they're cited now. 02:43:53
And all the provisions related to that. 02:43:56
We've gathered by adoption. 02:44:00
So. 02:44:02
This is an area I want to revisit because I thought we were not loving this section if. 02:44:06
School enforcement that we wanted eliminated just the entire. 02:44:13
Yeah, Lane. 02:44:17
I don't know. That's not where I remember the end of the discussion. 02:44:19
So I might have just missed something. 02:44:22
Let's talk about that again, because yeah, I think we decided to. 02:44:26
About the meeting I met. 02:44:30
It may have been a meeting, yeah. 02:44:31
Yeah. 02:44:36
Bicycle cycles is not really bikes. 02:44:58
This isn't. This isn't having you buy stuff it doesn't. 02:45:01
Version that I sent you today. OK, that's. Yeah, that's just what Yeah. Is that not in here then? No, because you just sent it to 02:45:06
me today. Well, whatever I sent you to look at. 02:45:10
And that's not this version at all. 02:45:16
Because it had the reference to that state statute in there, we have that. 02:45:18
Is this? 02:45:25
Well, I know it's not whatever the version, I thank you today. Stephanie, add it in there, OK? 02:45:34
And I've got it. 02:45:42
Maybe we pause here because we've got a concrete, we've got a lot of different versions. 02:45:43
Would you ask me if you you raised? 02:45:49
It's a clean copy of it. You want a clean copy, Well, I mean another copy of 11 that incorporates all of that has all our changes. 02:45:55
The idling ordinances. 02:46:15
Driving myself and. 02:46:18
It has the same visions. 02:46:20
So where was that one? 02:46:24
That starts under age 37. 02:46:27
That's as we adopted a few years back. 02:46:34
So we'll review that on February 6th in the work session. I mean I would love to, I don't know what that your availability. 02:46:49
I don't see Idolino and that was brought up. I don't see the idling in this. 02:47:01
11:46. 02:47:10
3840 on page 38. OK, well, thank you. Thank you. 02:47:12
I just get back OK. 02:47:16
So I think what we'll do, I'm going to use the version that I set to the chief that he sent back to me. 02:47:18
'Cause that has everybody's red line. 02:47:23
Yeah, because this one, yeah. 02:47:26
We'll use that as the control copy. 02:47:30
And then I'll be on the same thing, OK? 02:47:32
Hopefully we can get. 02:47:36
Piping work on that language. 02:47:38
At that section. 02:47:41
And I'll just say I did it was quickly looking. It looks like that language mirrors West Valley as well as Mill Creeks. 02:47:46
So that may be. 02:47:54
Kind of standard municipal language right now. 02:47:57
Yeah, I knew we listened to it. 02:48:00
Fair enough. 02:48:07
Changes to. 02:48:32
It's not. It says that we're trying to enforce much of the. 02:48:39
These parents. 02:48:42
And maybe there's ways to address this? 02:48:46
You couldn't buy it versus what's a motorcycle? 02:48:49
I mean, if it's not a licensed vehicle, can you? 02:48:52
Basically say they're not allowed on. 02:48:55
Certain classes of roads. 02:48:57
And your authority to regulate the use of your streets at very. 02:49:00
Yeah, good thing I don't care about this. 02:49:08
6 year old. 02:49:12
Anyway. 02:49:19
So we should be able to include those in the. 02:49:22
Hopefully the work session on the 6th. 02:49:25
I hope so. I hope we can get into that, yeah. 02:49:28
If not, then we're. 02:49:32
Looking at February 27, so February 20th is going to be the retreat. 02:49:35
February 27 will be council meeting and then I think we have another council meeting which is. 02:49:39
So we try to get those in the work session and Chief. 02:49:45
Is the plan that we're going to have the new code enforcement officer come in just for a meet and Creek on this next? 02:49:50
Yeah, for council and. 02:49:56
I need. Do we need to? 02:49:59
I mean, I think everybody remembers Ivy Carnegie. 02:50:01
The new old SRO at Olympus High School, so. 02:50:07
And then we've got a couple of incentive orders that's during the council. 02:50:10
Replacing office developers? He's no. So we have a new code enforcement officer replacing Warren Gallow. 02:50:16
But our SRO at Olympus? 02:50:24
Jit resigned. He's going to. 02:50:26
Police Department in Miami, Miami. It's from the beach. Miami Beach. 02:50:28
The Beach Police Department and so we opened it up for applications. 02:50:33
And Jaime put in Fort was selected yesterday so he'll be ducked back at the school as soon as. 02:50:39
And he was there before and well liked, yes. 02:50:44
I think and one of those. 02:50:48
He as of the 15th. 02:50:53
So Chad Peterson of the new code enforcement officer. 02:50:56
No, that's who's going to come on the work session up. 02:51:01
Keys replacement award and so we'll I think it's good to have him feminine just introduce himself before council starts start 02:51:04
judging those who he is. 02:51:08
Love it and. 02:51:11
Yeah. OK. So one other thing I just want to say about 10:00 and 11:00, we're going to have a delayed. 02:51:14
Effective date when you adopt and that's just to give us time to get our. 02:51:21
All the coding for the court and and upd. 02:51:27
Caught up to reflect those changes. And also did you say we have to have a public hearing on them too? We will have a public 02:51:31
hearing. So if we are able to do this on the 6th, would have the public hearing on the 27th and then adopt it. 02:51:37
10:00 and 11:00. 02:51:44
So what about the balance of the code? 02:51:45
I thought we reviewed all the. 02:51:48
We are. 02:51:51
All. 02:51:54
Title by title, yeah, that's the. 02:52:01
How many titles do you have? 02:52:03
1717. 02:52:05
So we can do. 02:52:08
Two at once, but we can expect to do this four or five times. We may bring. 02:52:09
OK. 02:52:22
Your form of government makes it. 02:52:24
OK. Well, I think you just need to go into closed session and who do you want here for that? Just Todd? 02:52:29
Todd and Jerry. 02:52:34
OK, We just need a motion if somebody wants to read it off, but. 02:52:40
Post session. Thank you. 02:52:44
Let me see. 02:52:47
And then we're going to have to wait, adjourn. 02:52:50
Going through both sessions and process. 02:52:58
Described in UC 52.4204205. 02:53:01
Not the journey, but we're just going into closed session. 02:53:08
OK. 02:53:11
Yes. 02:53:13
Yeah, and I vote yes. And so as soon as Stephanie gives us the thumbs up, we'll turn it over. 02:53:16
scroll up