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So the. 00:00:01
Any questions of the? 00:00:04
I don't. I mean, I'm happy to. 00:00:11
As long as we have that other issue cleared up, I'm fine with it. I just don't want to do any more of these things. Or we assume 00:00:15
somebody is going to do something and raise zone and then have the title, which is not the case here, but he's happy to talk to us 00:00:19
about. 00:00:23
Opportunities for moderate income housing options after the fact, which I think would be great, but. 00:00:28
For me, when I look at this in terms of the room and. 00:00:34
Ord. And where that parcel is. 00:00:39
Which is located kind of within an existing Ord zone and the fact that we text amended the zone to allow for multi family which I 00:00:43
think would probably be a good opportunity on this site because. 00:00:49
It is going to be touch the build. I just don't have any. I read the staff report to me it's. 00:00:56
I don't have any issues with it. I don't either. I visited the site, I'm familiar with the site. I biked past the site a number of 00:01:05
times. I drove up there the other day. 00:01:09
Given the slope on the east and the north, and even a fair amount of slope, you know, between those residences and that property, 00:01:14
it's fairly protected. 00:01:20
Not only by this slope, but also huge tree sands which I imagine are going to keep the tree stand. 00:01:27
I don't see that it really encroached. 00:01:34
Really at all on those residences significantly. 00:01:38
Yeah, and the only difference between. 00:01:43
This parcel being Ord and the rest of that whole Ord area is this one happens to dump out on Big Cut with Canyon Road and all the 00:01:49
other ones dumped out on Lyon Road or the other private road. That's really the only difference. 00:01:56
But the fact that it's so protected with slopes. 00:02:04
And I drove up the old Mill Circle Rd. 00:02:09
And tried to take it from the look at them from the perspective of those homes. 00:02:13
Because I want to treat those neighbors as if they were also holiday residents in terms of this issue. I don't want to take that 00:02:18
attitude, but so the gravel pit. 00:02:23
But I didn't feel like. 00:02:32
There was really much. 00:02:36
Going on there that there's a whole lot to complain about. 00:02:40
I just didn't feel like there's much to complain. Well, you know the other thing there is, at least in my mind. 00:02:43
Because of both sloping. One of those sloping issues. 00:02:50
I'm not sure you're ever going to get anything on that site with an RM zone because. 00:02:55
I don't think you'd be able to get enough density on there to make sense of it. Where? 00:03:00
And I don't think they'll be able to go to 75 feet anyway because of the setback. They're going to have the residential and then 00:03:04
they're, you know, the graduated height, but they can get enough massing on there. 00:03:10
If they can park it to make it economical and maybe they can do, maybe we would have an opportunity to do some affordability. 00:03:17
Coordination with them with some of our RDA funds. 00:03:26
I just don't want the rezone to be predicated on the fact that that's going to happen, right? 00:03:30
Primarily, I think that. 00:03:37
Biggest issue, we don't know how much we commit and. 00:03:39
If we do. 00:03:42
Yeah. Is this locked outside of the RDA? 00:03:44
Project area, yeah. 00:03:48
I think that was expired. Anyway, that one has expired. 00:03:52
I'm surprised I was told that about Chicago Hearts. 00:04:02
Maybe they decided it wasn't how big the NFL starts tonight. 00:04:08
Well, I don't know. I've done the same thing that Paul has driven over there. I looked around and I would agree with your 00:04:14
assessment. 00:04:17
100% that. 00:04:22
I do not predicate our decision based on this, but I would be interested. You mentioned earlier there are some. 00:04:24
Levers or incentives that we can do to help encourage some of these workforce housing options or combination, What are those? 00:04:33
Yeah. What are those tools that we do have? 00:04:44
Well, primarily their financial tools that are. 00:04:48
Somebody that come from various spots of funding from. 00:04:51
Specifically for. 00:04:57
So. 00:05:02
Would or would not offer anything. 00:05:06
We're looking for partners to qualify to partner with that they were interested in. 00:05:09
All right, just like I said that the leak that's affordable housing for two days straight, so. 00:05:16
Want to know what's available? One thing I thought there might be an opportunity. 00:05:22
If the traffic. 00:05:27
I can't imagine how many units in here would actually create much. 00:05:29
And additional traffic demand, but. 00:05:33
It's kind of a little. 00:05:36
Blind corner coming around here. That's primarily because of this overgrowth right here, which would probably go away. 00:05:37
But then right here is where you've got, it's one lane each way here, but it goes to two lanes right there. There might be an 00:05:43
opportunity. 00:05:48
To start that two lane. 00:05:53
Either here or even here at the border. 00:05:55
Something to consider, because right here you've got an orphan sidewalk segment that goes nowhere. 00:05:59
You got full sidewalk on this side. I mean, it ends right here and picks up again over here. But this is there's no sidewalk here. 00:06:04
They've got 1 here. 00:06:09
Well, it's kind of political on this side. Either you got on this side, you got this side. So this is kind of orphan and there is 00:06:14
some flat land right there. So there could be room to expand. We have a 2 lane piece that starts here and take it back to here or 00:06:23
here and then ameliorate some of this traffic coming here, the blind corner here, opportunity for some improvement. 00:06:31
Right there. 00:06:40
Yeah, if we get to the site time review, we can definitely keep that in mind as we look at off site. 00:06:43
But. 00:06:52
The developer will be putting in there. 00:06:54
So there wouldn't be anything. 00:06:57
At least that. 00:07:01
Select. 00:07:04
Is all that. 00:07:07
Hefty grammar. Just part of the Christian Church. 00:07:09
Yeah, they went all the way down. 00:07:12
That's all extremely slow. 00:07:15
Any idea how much higher that first house is on old mill circle elevation length? 00:07:18
Here, Yeah. 00:07:23
6070 feet. 00:07:25
Accentuated fairly frankly of any. 00:07:29
Of the two-story, you know. 00:07:31
Concerns and stuff like that. 00:07:33
That is going to be set back quite a ways from that hole too, if they get up to yeah, and you got a big tree stand there and it 00:07:37
also just has a natural slope there. 00:07:41
They have is the possibility of short term rentals. 00:07:52
And that was their concern with all of these. 00:08:01
But there's lots of hotel. 00:08:06
I know. 00:08:08
Yeah, it's really what it's your next door neighbor, right? So I'm, you know, I'm just. 00:08:12
OK, I. 00:08:24
Well, we'll post it for the 19th. 00:08:27
Thanks. 00:08:31
Gary Carrier wrote the staff. 00:08:34
OK. 00:08:48
This is just a. 00:08:50
Update on where we are at with our projects we are spending on our stormwater. 00:08:52
Bond. 00:09:03
We've got about a dozen different projects going on in the city and I wanted to. 00:09:04
Just report on each one individually, let you know the status of them. 00:09:10
As well as the budget, how much that budget has been spent and. 00:09:16
So forth. So I've provided a map here of the each project location and I've also provided a. 00:09:20
Spreadsheet cable listing each project and the status of the budget each project so. 00:09:27
I will first, I guess, start at the top of the map and work right down, and then I'll just kind of move into that table. 00:09:36
We have a project here on El Dorado Mass District is under construction right now and. 00:09:44
You're welcome. 00:09:52
Umm, it should be done in another couple of weeks. It was flooding out a couple of houses that were. 00:09:54
On Westwood there. 00:10:04
That's the right street, right? Northwood. Northwood. 00:10:08
So by constructing this project, we should be able to protect those houses. 00:10:11
Our next project, also Mass District is this house that we demoed last bought in demo last year on Holiday Blvd. Just a real quick 00:10:19
update on that. We are trying to work with the adjacent property owners we are expecting to receive a offer from. 00:10:30
An adjacent property owner for the purchase of that vacant parcel. Now that's something we will I'm sure, be updating the council 00:10:42
on. 00:10:46
Possibly in October or something. Presumably that person won't be able to build there, so they have to rebuy another answer. 00:10:52
They don't wanna build on it. We would be putting a cabinet over the majority of the site. We would probably be. 00:11:01
The upper portion of that property available for building well. 00:11:09
There have to be set back issues, but we probably would put that no build on the. 00:11:15
Elevated portion of the site. 00:11:21
We are also working through a couple of the logistics with the. 00:11:24
Money that was used to purchase it, which is ARPA funds if we sell. 00:11:29
That project, I think we had to reinvest that ARPA money back into. 00:11:36
I'm not 100% certain, but that's something that we're looking into. 00:11:41
That doesn't need to be made into micro retention pond or anything. 00:11:49
We do not have any plans on making it a retention fund. 00:11:53
What I'm getting at is if we sell it. 00:11:57
Can we protect ourselves from future liability at anytime? 00:12:00
We were working with. 00:12:04
Else Todd Gaffery on what language would be included in that sale and what gets recorded. It becomes a swimming pool. It's on 00:12:07
them, yes. 00:12:11
Next also Matt district we had a hobbies. 00:12:20
Area that was frequent over on Wellington we. 00:12:25
Stop. You guys can figure out. 00:12:34
Is that your fault? 00:12:39
We had a ponding spot there that we fixed. A what? Bonding like drainage there just didn't work. There was something that was 00:12:47
pretty healthy and we spent a bunch of money making it right. 00:12:53
Umm, we also did some. 00:13:01
Overt rehabilitation on the canal here across the Murray Holiday Rd. That's 100% down. This is Wellington storm drains 100% done. 00:13:06
We are in the works. This is not under our storm drain. 00:13:18
On, but I thought I would throw it in here. It's under our roadway. Bond is a bridge deck replacement. 00:13:22
On Highland Circle, actually this Murray holiday over rehabilitation is also part of our bridge fund under the roadway but. 00:13:30
So I'm just tossing those in there is. 00:13:41
Site projects that you might be interested in. 00:13:43
Our Metamorphose 1 project is under construction. 00:13:48
It's a. 00:13:54
It's one of our biggest projects that we're doing in the city and. 00:13:58
We are really happy with the contractor that's been working out there. It was a slow start. They had a lot of conflicts to deal 00:14:03
with. But once they got those underground utilities out of the way, they've been making pretty steady progress and we are 00:14:09
expecting that that project would be complete at the end of the month. 00:14:16
At the end of this month. 00:14:24
Yeah, the first party over there. 00:14:25
There'll probably be some touch ups that would go on in October, but for the most part it will be done by the end of this month. 00:14:29
That's Phase 1 of what we're calling metamor. Phase 2 is through Salt Lake City property. We're calling that Metamorphase 2. 00:14:38
And this is all part of the storm drain system, same storm drain system like all this here connects up to that there. 00:14:50
So this is the second portion where we're having big problems. In fact, I've provided a photo of this storm drain on page 2 if you 00:14:59
want to scan. 00:15:04
Our city. 00:15:10
It is outside the city. 00:15:10
And nobody wants. 00:15:13
It's something that has been in our. 00:15:17
Capital plan Stormwater master planning for years. 00:15:20
It's. 00:15:26
In Mill Creek. But they don't want anything to do with it. It backs up and it floods our residents. 00:15:30
And it's our water that is dragging into this area. No one drop of milk creeks water actually gets into it. 00:15:36
It's a 48 inch pipe. 00:15:45
So. 00:15:50
This is all root mass here and root mass here. 00:15:51
And it's. 00:15:56
Grown into this storm drain pipe and blocking I think over 90% of it. 00:15:58
So we. 00:16:05
This pipe was constructed with. 00:16:10
It's an interesting. 00:16:13
Techniques as well. There's no way to rehabilitate this system. Like, no way. 00:16:15
The only option is replace this pipe, so that's what we're going to do. 00:16:21
For those of you that have been on the Council for a long time. 00:16:27
Yeah. 00:16:33
So. 00:16:42
So it means replacement is the only thing you can really do. 00:16:44
Yeah, you know, when I started looking at this 5-6 years ago, I thought, oh, we could get in there and get these roots out and 00:16:47
make this thing functional again. 00:16:52
I get that idea a long time ago after I looked into it a lot closer, but this is across 13 piece then to the north of Saint 00:16:59
Vincents. Sorry. 00:17:04
So Salt Lake City owns a piece of property there that they use as a yard and but mostly for pumping groundwater. So it's very high 00:17:12
groundwater cable there. It's an aquifer with artesian wells on it. 00:17:20
And as far as north-south of Saint Vincent, I think the West. 00:17:28
Yeah, Westville, so north. 00:17:35
I mean this piece of the West of. 00:17:39
That side of our prop is this sort of outside of our property line. Yeah, yeah. So West of 13, just South of Murray Holiday Rd. 00:17:42
Right. So N the same base, yeah. 00:17:51
Between there. 00:17:54
So if you want to go back to a map. So would it be fair to say then that? 00:17:56
The big piece of pace flow we're doing, we'll jump into that storm grade it is. So if we don't, if we don't correct that, Mill 00:18:04
Creek won't correct it. It's going to keep backing up. Yeah, even if we put in new infrastructure. So even this spring, we've had 00:18:10
three flooded basements. 00:18:16
On. 00:18:23
Rebecca Circle. 00:18:26
Convinced them all to. 00:18:28
But yes, if we don't do anything, we continue our problems. 00:18:36
Let me back up. We have one house that actually had water, and we had two houses that were very close. 00:18:42
To heavy watering. 00:18:48
So that's that project a little more phase two, AKA the jungle. 00:18:53
Umm, now we've got 2. 00:18:59
Big projects under construction that will be done by the end of the month as well. In fact, I think Castle Lane might be done as. 00:19:02
Nearly done by the end of next week. 00:19:12
It's been under construction for two months. 00:19:16
We're cheering over here. Yeah, I. 00:19:20
On the lane. 00:19:24
Come this winter we will be replacing the bridge across the canal there as well, so that'll start construction. 00:19:27
In November, likely. 00:19:34
Hilton is also under construction that should that will be done by the end of the month. 00:19:40
They are just into this upper portion on that dead end. 00:19:49
Cottonwood Lane Storm Grain started yesterday. 00:19:54
And that will continue. 00:20:01
Likely into early November. They might be able to finish by the end of October. 00:20:05
Does that address? 00:20:12
Does Caso and Cottonwood address the? 00:20:15
Awareness issues or is that? Yes, yes, all three of these projects were actually needed to do that. 00:20:19
Still and then the apps as well I guess. 00:20:30
Yeah. 00:20:37
Yeah, right at the bottom of the hill, essentially. Is that right? 00:20:38
On Cottonwood, yeah, it dumps into the Kotlin treatment on the Northside. On the Northside, it goes up to that property. 00:20:41
There's catch basins on. 00:20:49
You know, potentially in the future we might want to extend that further. 00:20:56
North but. 00:21:00
That would be more of a long term storm drain. 00:21:02
Put into a more long term storm drain faster plan. 00:21:06
Update umm. 00:21:12
Down here on Holiday Blvd. We constructed a storm drain that was essentially a bubble up that was discharging a lot of storm water 00:21:17
into the front of the Carmel Monastery, flowing over land, getting into their shed and other buildings. 00:21:27
Destroying their grass and everything. So we constructed a storm drain through their property to their back where that water can 00:21:38
then make this way too big Copper Creek. 00:21:43
Umm. 00:21:49
Over here we have another bridge replacement project that bid closed today. 00:21:52
That one, we are receiving grant money. 00:21:57
For that replacement. 00:22:01
That's not a bond project at all, but it is a project that will be starting. 00:22:03
In November we'll have some Rd. closures. 00:22:11
On 5600 S we will be noticing on that project. 00:22:16
Umm. 00:22:23
Moving South? 00:22:27
Will be starting a. 00:22:29
Project on the Tanner Ditch where the ditch is open. 00:22:32
And it's problematic because it collects leaves and needles and it's going through properties and they don't make it. 00:22:38
Backs up in clause and it has caused flooding. 00:22:48
We have a pre construction meeting on that tomorrow, so that project will be complete. We would expect that end of September, 00:22:53
maybe middle of October. 00:22:58
We've done some. 00:23:04
Upgrades over on Sonoma Drive to minimize or to better capture the storm water coming onto Sonoma Drive and get it over into the 00:23:07
canal. And in addition to that, we built the storm drain on 2300 E 100% done to minimize storm water going over to Sonoma. 00:23:18
So those two projects have. 00:23:31
Your community, I mean, you've had some pretty heavy rainfalls a couple weeks ago. 00:23:36
It'll make nothing. It's been great. OK, good. 00:23:41
Promising it's completely eliminated for all storms, but I think you'll see that lake reappear very infrequently. 00:23:46
We're very happy. 00:23:55
So what are all these projects costing and what are the statuses? 00:23:57
These are their budgets. 00:24:03
So we've got. 00:24:06
Five of them complete. 00:24:10
And then we've got another. 00:24:13
Or going to be done by the end of this month and then we're still. 00:24:16
A few that were starting. 00:24:22
One of the things that's not on the map is our. 00:24:25
Rehabilitation of our existing corrugated metal pipes. 00:24:30
That are used for storm grains. So those are the rusting pipes that are failing. They're they're corroded, they're causing 00:24:35
sinkholes. 00:24:40
So we are going in with liners and putting a new fiberglass liner inside of those pipes and stabilizing them to rehabilitate them. 00:24:46
That's a $2.5 million project. We're only we're less, a little less than 5%. 00:24:56
That is actually done because they're still going through those packs that are going to be lined. Clean them. 00:25:03
Before they put liners in. 00:25:11
That project will supposed to be done by the end of the year. I think that. 00:25:13
Extended to the new year. 00:25:20
Probably a month maybe, but that money is all committed. I mean, you know where those liners are all going. And we do, yeah. 00:25:22
So that I would say takes care of. 00:25:31
78th percent of our. 00:25:35
Corrugated metal pipe issues. 00:25:39
So I could see maybe the next few years that we would. 00:25:46
Maybe look at finding some money. 00:25:51
Continue to do more of those. 00:25:55
Pretty much taps out our bond, proceeds. 00:26:00
This stuff, Yeah. That's it, yeah. 00:26:03
Can you remind us? 00:26:06
We've got our stormwater fee in place and I want to say. 00:26:09
I want to say that I remember it made about $1,000,000 a year. 00:26:14
And are bonded about 700,000. So we still are. We still have. 00:26:19
300,000 a year. 00:26:24
Or so of money fish because we pay a portion of both Joe and Jerry get paid out of that fund. So let's say that's 8000 ish between 00:26:26
the two of them. 00:26:32
So we've got a little more. 00:26:41
To spend. 00:26:43
But I don't know if it council will remember, but. 00:26:45
When we did our financial sustainability plan. 00:26:51
Our consultant recommended that this is something we look at. 00:26:55
Or stormwater fee, as is what? 00:27:01
Yeah, we'll get this done by the time we get done. Essentially what you're saying is. 00:27:10
There's not. 00:27:14
A material amount of funds available on an annual basis for ongoing maintenance so that work may be where a future council wants 00:27:16
to look at. 00:27:21
Remember that and say the. 00:27:27
ERU is like 650 and their recommendation is like $290.00 or something four or five years. So you get. 00:27:30
Four or $500,000 a year money you can use to maintain your store price. Exactly. My view is that this is not the kind of thing 00:27:38
that should be bonded for except when we get ourselves in a hole. But they're going forward. What you bond for is like buildings 00:27:45
and opportunity to buy parks that for regular. This is regular maintenance. This should be annual budget. There should be. 00:27:53
Funds allocated annually as opposed to. 00:28:01
Deferred bank is deferred bank is deferred Venice and a whammo you got to do a big bond and as the survey. 00:28:05
It's on your electric. 00:28:13
Yeah, because we don't have a building, partners are rocking up power Flex. If they charge us a fee, you'll see if you look at 00:28:15
your power bill, you'll see. This is when we have the state area that has a different rate. 00:28:21
Plan of how to improve this. 00:28:37
Along Lake Holloway and. 00:28:39
Holly Blvd. 00:28:43
So we did. 00:28:44
You just the question, is there a way to protect that property or is there still there's still some concerns in that area? 00:28:46
So none of those we don't have a great solution to. 00:28:59
Committee day on the storm issues in that area at the current. 00:29:09
Which is why we want to have you, because that was the cheaper solution it was. We do know that there are ongoing issues there, 00:29:13
however. 00:29:18
We haven't put it into the bond projects and it would be something that we would study. 00:29:24
In the future, maybe this is a gross oversimplification, but essentially we bought us. 00:29:32
But we don't have good routing to it to keep the flood. 00:29:41
Talking about. 00:29:45
Right. Yeah. And that would be very costly to improve the. 00:29:46
The drainage stood off the body Blvd. Yeah, and I think that might be referring to just other drainage in the area outside of the 00:29:50
goalie. Or are you only referring to that goalie? I think when there's a big story coming down Hallway and down Holiday Blvd. 00:30:00
Lesson Longview. 00:30:10
And I think it all sort of ends there for. 00:30:14
Yes, it goes up and over Holly Blvd. and kind of gathers and collects down and goes through those people's yards that are just on 00:30:17
the left side of Hollywood, right? 00:30:21
Yeah, we don't have any other houses that are under threat of flooding there, but we do have this kind of storm water going 00:30:26
wherever it wants to. 00:30:31
One question on the while we're on the topic back on the stormwater fund though. So in an ideal scenario we would have. 00:30:47
That money that we collect from the stormwater fund, stormwater. 00:30:53
Fee sustaining our ongoing maintenance and sufficient to handle it and we think that that budget number should be what. 00:30:59
And that's a great question. I think we're going to need to update our. 00:31:10
We've really made a ton of progress. 00:31:17
But my recollection is somewhere in the errors that the. 00:31:20
Four or five years ago. 00:31:24
Yes, I, I, I remember that we went through that and they, they basically went. 00:31:31
So 50% more than this right now, yeah. They basically said, you know, this will get you your bonding and it'll allow you to. 00:31:37
To make these critical. 00:31:45
Infrastructure improvements. 00:31:48
Pulsing pulse absolutely right that you shouldn't be bonding for this stuff. We should have enough annual income coming into 00:31:51
properly maintain what we've got. So I think the question would be. 00:31:57
Is is there a way to quantify that which is? I think they did said look, you need. 00:32:03
You really should be spending $1,000,000 a year if you want whatever that number is, and so your fee should be this and. 00:32:08
That was about the time we should be looking at that and. 00:32:15
Once this gets in I think. 00:32:19
Our Council. 00:32:21
What do we think is a proper amount of money to generate to responsibly maintain what we have? 00:32:23
And based on that. 00:32:30
What? What should the proper fee be? I can tell you from. 00:32:33
A little bit of higher storm water fee is really, really low. 00:32:38
And not like that, but this, that fee would be one that really should be adjusted with inflation over time as well. Just because 00:32:42
that maintenance doesn't doesn't get cheaper, right? 00:32:46
No. 00:32:54
So. 00:33:00
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that should be. 00:33:04
Something. 00:33:06
That's all going to be done. It looks like in the April May time frame. That would be a great time maybe next budget season to 00:33:08
look at, you know, okay, let's, let's pull that back up. Let's look at what they said. Let's reevaluate what we've done and start 00:33:13
talking about. 00:33:18
What a proper storm rate fee should be. 00:33:23
I like that because it provides transparency to residents. This is the hospital and it goes to a specific function. It doesn't go 00:33:27
away with general pool so. 00:33:31
But this is a big deal. Well done. 00:33:36
Just one other comment again, while we're on the topic with this Oiler property and the how much buildable area is there to the 00:33:39
higher elevation? 00:33:42
I think it's like. 00:33:46
25 feet from the property line. So not enough for a residential No. I think the neighbor was trying to maybe carve off this strict 00:33:48
building. Garage back there, but pool house? 00:33:54
Some lot line adjustments and things like that, so. 00:34:02
So if a person brought in Phil. 00:34:09
And to get to keep the elevation up, though mostly I'm just thinking because 900 grand or something like that for that. 00:34:12
Chunk of money and I just want to maximize the value for the city's sake right If we if there was some course where we're 00:34:18
protected from the risks that we bought it for right but then and so if neighbors are going to get together and offer us 25 grand 00:34:25
or 50 grand or something for that property. I would say before bringing that to us maybe you all feel differently but I would say 00:34:31
let's at least look at. 00:34:38
If there's other possibilities that could get us more like what a buildable lot would be, which might be with 400%. 00:34:45
OK. 00:34:53
How far do you want us to go? 00:34:59
With that. 00:35:02
I don't spend a lot of time on it, but at least look at it and if it's possible and. 00:35:06
Then. 00:35:12
If there's a difference, potentially 350 or four, $50,000. 00:35:16
Again, what's the single family residence? I mean, we could probably turn it into a buildable lot if that's the City Council is 00:35:21
directing us to do. It would cost money. 00:35:27
By bringing in some fill. 00:35:33
Also, you want to make sure, does that mean the limit of our liability? I don't want more liability, but well, I think. 00:35:37
From an engineering perspective, it is feasible. From a zoning perspective and. 00:35:47
It is 3 lots. It's at 2 lots. In front of it there's. 00:35:53
And parking has always been issued back there so. 00:35:59
I think it depends on, I think if somebody is going to make an offer, maybe you want to see what the offer is. And I think so we 00:36:03
did get a. 00:36:08
Appraisal done on it and the appraisal. 00:36:13
So we have given the appraisal to. 00:36:22
Adjacent property owners, that was. 00:36:25
So that would be an issue where once we got the closed session and say, OK, and then I see what you're saying that Ty is we want 00:36:29
to do the best we can for a residence and it's certainly something we can at least have a conversation about. And then. 00:36:37
Yeah, OK, cool. 00:36:45
Yeah, I agree with Paul though. 00:36:48
Yeah, that's a lot of, that's a lot of work to get to this point where it's. 00:36:51
Like half of it's done and half of it's on the road to be done by say, end of April. 00:36:57
We spent two years planning many of these projects and. 00:37:04
And we're in the construction review. So sorry. One other thing while we're on topic too, RJ Gordon and company, I don't know if 00:37:07
you're familiar with them or not, they're a holiday resident that have a really innovative new business that they're going to ask 00:37:13
me to sell these all over where they have like some Lidar scanning system about a year ago. 00:37:18
I gave him some data. 00:37:26
And I haven't heard back from them. OK. I just want to make sure that you that the connection was there. And yeah, they're doing 00:37:28
well. 00:37:32
Some of you were aware of them, yeah. They asked us if you R&D were using our storm grade system. 00:37:37
So I don't know. 00:37:44
From that R&D? 00:37:46
Yeah, OK, great. 00:37:48
I was hoping to hear back from I can make that happen. 00:37:49
OK. 00:37:53
All right. Thanks, Jared. So finally is the Adu thing. So the Adu things in AD is in the packet. 00:37:55
Steve and I are talking about this earlier, trying to jump our own memories about. 00:38:04
How far you've got, but I think John and the staff did a pretty good job of. 00:38:09
Restating. 00:38:14
The issues that we are going to work on and. 00:38:16
I think what we do is just start going through them and. 00:38:19
See how many get a thumbs up and how many we still have work to do. 00:38:22
You know, it's like I said, I don't. I'd love to get it done, but I think it's more important that we get it right and get it 00:38:27
done. 00:38:30
I think once this is done. 00:38:34
We're going to start seeing you're going to speak with you. Well, so we want to be comfortable that we've got the ordinance in 00:38:36
place, we want to have in place. So I'll let you just take it from there, start walking us through it, okay? 00:38:43
So I'll start with the staff report and talk about where we left off in Maple May. 00:38:52
Have been feeling really good about the council. Was was OK with the amendments that came from 5:00. 00:39:00
Sort of what we left open-ended. 00:39:06
Kind of over on the fence about. 00:39:09
Specifically. 00:39:13
Obviously we have some state code that requires these amendments. 00:39:16
What we wanted to do is expand and clarify owner occupied. 00:39:19
Parking requirements were tied to parking standards for the bedroom that was added outside of was already existing. 00:39:29
No real minimum lot size for. 00:39:40
At an Adu that has either. 00:39:43
If it's interior to the property. 00:39:47
Yeah. 00:39:50
No special consideration for corner lots or double fronting lots. The idea there was. 00:39:53
Regardless of what lot size you had if you were a corner. 00:39:59
You could detach that unit from the house. 00:40:02
That was an idea, but. 00:40:05
Specific scenario. 00:40:08
New language for additional height 5 feet over what was normally allowed for detached. 00:40:13
So 25 feet rather than 20. 00:40:19
For. 00:40:22
That allows for some upstairs. 00:40:23
Loft height. 00:40:26
For. 00:40:28
Sitting above a garage. 00:40:29
Removal of this idea of ground level only living space. 00:40:33
The structures within a set back were primary. 00:40:39
I think that was definitely a good movie. 00:40:44
Removal of graduated height standard that was amended by the Planning Commission to be. 00:40:47
26 feet. So if you're imaginary standing at the property line, you have this 6 foot. 00:40:52
Height at a 45° angle that goes in toward the property. 00:40:58
The mass of that building have to be below that height. 00:41:03
Set 6 foot height is not used in the ordinance anywhere rather than 8 feet. 00:41:07
So I think that the council made a good move on keeping that at 8 feet, and it was studied pretty extensively. When that witness 00:41:15
was created, it wasn't really necessary an arbitrary number. 00:41:20
And allows for that second level to begin over. Like if you have a garage, you have a kind of a taller door height for your garage 00:41:26
door header. 00:41:31
When you want to get into an upstairs loft situation, this number comes into play and it's extremely important to make that work. 00:41:36
When you start reducing that, it limits the height that ceiling height. It's usable upstairs. 00:41:43
Compliant with lot coverage maximums. 00:41:53
And that was something that. 00:41:56
Rear yards can be covered with more than a certain percentage of structures that remained in the code. 00:41:59
Is that a percentage? 00:42:08
25%. 00:42:10
Covered with. 00:42:14
And then removal of this idea of restricting windows. 00:42:18
That was direct conflict with. 00:42:24
Egress issues with. 00:42:27
So there has to be with open. 00:42:31
So that brings us to the next section of where we. 00:42:35
Primarily made the majority of the adjustments as per council meeting. Now in my copy, hopefully on the screen you can see the 00:42:39
difference between purple and fuchsia. 00:42:44
My eyes suddenly seemed that well, so I don't care with me. 00:42:49
As you go through these, we tried to pick yeah, I guess you can see them there. 00:42:54
Anyway. 00:43:02
So to start off here, temporary absence was added in this line. 00:43:04
We had some, we had some. 00:43:17
Redundant language in one of these we just removed. 00:43:19
Owner can't live in advance because of the modified temporary absence of three years for temporary absence. 00:43:24
We just cleaned that up. 00:43:30
In that situation, the idea here was you want to have a situation where we don't get into. 00:43:33
Medical issues. 00:43:41
The property owners confirm the medical issue and have medical absence. That's something that we didn't want to touch. 00:43:43
So if it's modified leave of absence for a 36 years or three years, they still have that. 00:43:49
Order occupied criteria that replace the property. 00:43:56
Umm, discussion on being designated in a manner that's compatible with the neighborhood residential vernacular. 00:44:06
This idea floats around a lot of zoning codes that you have construction of. 00:44:12
Pretty much anything. 00:44:17
This idea of has to match its neighborhood. 00:44:19
And that's so arbitrary it could be argued. 00:44:22
At what is the neighborhood holiday? 00:44:25
For some light Mr. Goofy looking things that are each others up. I don't know how you and honestly the nature of a detached into 00:44:30
you lately, especially if you're following anything on Instagram or social media. 00:44:36
It doesn't look like a pure legitimate house. It's usually very modern. 00:44:44
Not have pitched roofs, that type of thing so. 00:44:50
Very difficult to say that it has to follow some sort of architectural standard. Well, it seems like when people like raise the 00:44:53
property and then rebuild, they're not held to some neighborhood vernacular standards, so. 00:44:59
My house. 00:45:08
So we're just checking that out. 00:45:11
Now on to sort of the meat and potatoes of what we were talking about. 00:45:16
Last. 00:45:20
Setbacks. 00:45:23
The concern here revolved around the Planning Commission's recommendation that. 00:45:24
A 10 foot set back was required for all accessory loan years. 00:45:31
Seth kind of bristled at this situation because. 00:45:35
It doesn't really provide equal protection for whether you're building a garage or any garage has smaller setbacks. It could be 00:45:40
shoved into the corner of your backyard. 00:45:45
But if you're proposing to you, it need to be pulled off. 00:45:51
Simple distance. 00:45:54
10 feet or so into the backyard. 00:45:56
This eventually would turn into. 00:46:00
From Sap's point of view and enforcement. 00:46:02
One day it's permitted for us and. 00:46:06
In the next 5 to six months. 00:46:08
However. 00:46:13
What the City Council or the council was looking at. 00:46:15
Specifically with context and some exceptions. 00:46:20
A reduction of that distance. 00:46:24
If your property is next to a canal, your property is next to a big parking lot to a commercial building. 00:46:27
Those situations can reduce that 10 foot number down. 00:46:33
To up into whatever the accessory accessory building set back is. 00:46:38
So. 00:46:44
In the chart, maybe Sydney? 00:46:47
Scroll down a little bit. 00:46:50
We get to it before. These are the context or the treatment elements. 00:46:52
That could be proposed to reduce your set back by a percentage. 00:46:58
These numbers are what we just came up with. 00:47:03
We can talk about these later and if I want to talk about these one-on-one with me, we'll be happy to. 00:47:06
This is what we. 00:47:13
Kind of foresaw as what could possibly be the potential acceptable reduction in that impact? 00:47:15
So if you agree to have with your neighbor Nicholas masonry wall, you can reduce that template by 50%. 00:47:23
8 down, 4 feet or so. 00:47:30
That fourth line item. 00:47:34
Immediately adjacent to the existing accessory building on the neighboring property. 00:47:37
Does that presume that's not an accessory dwelling building? 00:47:41
Not necessarily. 00:47:45
So they get to be. 00:47:47
Yeah, kissing cousin 80 used there. 00:47:49
And also it probably needs to be clarified too, immediately adjacent to the. 00:47:52
But the idea is that. 00:47:58
If one building is set back at 3 feet, do you also get 3 feet? Or if they have a non conforming building and they're at 1 foot set 00:48:01
back? 00:48:05
I don't think we're comfortable with that. 00:48:10
Difference, but at least 80% is allowed to reduce that 10 foot number down if there's. 00:48:13
You can go down to two feet. 00:48:21
80% off. 00:48:23
Yeah, there's, there's some, there's some exceptions in here that says you can't go any closer than what the accessory building 00:48:25
set back is. 00:48:29
Usually that hovers around three to five feet. 00:48:34
Right, right. And so I thought that that certainly makes sense. Well. 00:48:38
Let's say someone is complying with the whatever, it's 10 foot rule. 00:48:45
First neighbor does the 10 foot rule 81 Adu back there, but that's an accessory building. So this guy comes along and he can cheat 00:48:50
because this guys. 00:48:56
Further complied and further. 00:49:02
I think that makes sense if it's not an Adu. 00:49:05
Just the accessory building that's a garage or a ship that who cares? 00:49:09
But like one guys got Adu back there. 00:49:13
And the second guy gets an advantage, which I think could cause some conflict, yeah. 00:49:19
Umm, only I mean I like the idea that other than if it's an Adu. 00:49:26
How is that different than the third from the bottom? Coordination with a budding property owner to build adjacent 80 years. 00:49:31
So if you had one or more neighbors that still had the same idea. 00:49:38
But that really doesn't exist yet. So instead of this is a pre-existing situation. If they didn't have one we all want to do. 00:49:43
And we're all and we're OK with it. We can all have the three foot set back and I'll get clustered. OK, so. 00:49:53
That doesn't mean no set back. That means no that that removes it down to all the way down to what the required set back would be 00:50:01
for an accessory. So if you're just the building garage. 00:50:06
You could take it all the way down to the five foot from the 4th. 00:50:12
Whatever. 00:50:15
So your lot size gets larger that set back. 00:50:18
This is all considering if you're building a new ad's. 00:50:23
A new one comes in. 10 foot is the set back. 00:50:28
Unless you want to reduce it by using some of these. 00:50:31
Hey, Joe, just a minor thing. If we go back to line 65. 00:50:41
Like it looks like C paragraph 2 has been deleted. 00:50:56
So should that transition to 2-3 I mean. 00:51:04
01 to two, yeah, just yes, yeah. 00:51:08
A number in it In it. 00:51:17
No, that actually references that this language that's used in the chart no closer than. 00:51:33
Here's the reference of the title of the column in the chart. 00:51:40
Not this one, but. 00:51:46
I think it's previous. It's up above. 00:51:48
So this. 00:51:52
Mitigating. 00:51:56
Treatment. 00:51:59
What are the mitigating window treatments? 00:52:01
Umm. 00:52:15
So what we were trying to figure out what architectural. 00:52:18
Trends are being used to buffer when there's. 00:52:29
Close impact in every property. So we were looking at is some American Institute of Architecture. 00:52:33
Design styles. 00:52:39
And they were using muted color tones and palettes. 00:52:41
Things that would not be so drastic like white cut painted brick. 00:52:46
Things like that, That's what we use, Buddhist color choice in there. 00:52:51
The problem with all of these elements is this is a ongoing enforcement for. 00:52:57
The neighbor is saying, well yeah, they painted it and muted. 00:53:03
Ground so it kind of blends into whatever landscape they put in there. But now the next neighbor came back and. 00:53:06
So. 00:53:15
Window treatments is essentially a tinted situation. 00:53:20
I might want to just take the color choice off. 00:53:29
And if you have any other ideas, So what we're trying. 00:53:39
Sort of figure out what what would be a business for an aid you really close to the property. 00:53:44
Sometimes it's complaining the colors, sometimes the architecture itself. 00:53:51
I'm wondering. 00:53:58
You can somehow in the design it would be very site specific I think. But if there's an issue where like one window is exactly 00:54:00
aligned with your neighbors window to like. 00:54:05
Offset that I don't know. 00:54:12
Because that's, that's the thing that I noticed like out in Daybreak where they're like that. There's some properties that you can 00:54:14
just see right through. 00:54:18
And the windows are exactly alike, so that's just. 00:54:24
Yeah. And that's kind of why we ranked it so low. 00:54:28
It's not something that's. 00:54:31
That that happens on. 00:54:37
Lower levels. 00:54:38
Yeah, yeah. 00:54:40
And that might not be even something that could be feasibly. 00:54:49
Enforceable at all? 00:54:52
Simply an idea. 00:54:56
Well, in fact, it's listed on the. 00:55:01
List of mitigated mitigated choices doesn't necessarily mean after. 00:55:05
Except that they're both. 00:55:09
So this chart would reply to. 00:55:18
Obviously anything that would be newly proposed new construction and they wanted to reduce that 10 foot. 00:55:21
Provides a negative factor. 00:55:28
So that family that had this son that needed to live. 00:55:31
On their property. 00:55:35
To the original time wouldn't work. 00:55:37
That they have those mature trees that would block. 00:55:40
Am I remembering this right? Wasn't that where it was up against? 00:55:43
Yeah, the Creek or the world was it like. 00:55:48
Express or something like that. Yeah, I think there was something like that it was up against. 00:55:52
And there was a mature tree. So this would these kind of things would help them hopefully address that. 00:55:58
I really do like. 00:56:04
These options to provide context specific guidance. 00:56:06
So these are sort of the exceptions and what would have to be built into the application before that. 00:56:15
And then the next element would have been. 00:56:24
Well, what do we do with existing buildings? 00:56:27
They don't have anywhere near. 00:56:30
This required set. 00:56:32
And. 00:56:36
We understood from the Council that. 00:56:37
This is on the. We were, everybody was on the. 00:56:40
Could you convert an existing garage into an accessory? 00:56:45
Accessory unit. 00:56:48
Like a lot of your neighborhoods have two to three foot garages that were built in the 60s. 00:56:50
Back the property. 00:56:57
So some of the situations that we were coming up with was this idea of. 00:57:00
In line additions if they needed to expand it. 00:57:06
They would all be able to expand the nonconforming set back up to 50% of what was there. 00:57:10
Before they have to come into compliance and add on to it at the 10 foot. 00:57:15
The graduated height would still comply. Usually that wouldn't get you a second level over the existing. 00:57:21
And then I think we had under here. 00:57:30
The idea that, well, if you have a garage in the basement level is your Adu. 00:57:35
Than the template set back you have this 100 foot. 00:57:41
Reduction. 00:57:47
When you're below level like you got over here. 00:57:48
Which is which is a valid. I mean it's a valid. 00:57:56
No. 00:58:06
This is why laws are so. 00:58:08
Right. It's like there's so many variables, so many. 00:58:10
So and then on the next in our report on Page 3, again talking about conversion of existing buildings. 00:58:27
They could still request the treatments chart. 00:58:35
To mitigate whatever set back that they currently have. 00:58:39
So they had to spend some money. 00:58:43
To keep the set back that they currently have to convert a garage into an Adu. 00:58:45
Meaning they would have to build that 8 foot masonry wall. They would have to install all the landscaping of the buffer against 00:58:50
the neighbor. 00:58:53
To get this distance down to where they're at. 00:58:58
May not work. 00:59:01
Cheaper than moving the garage, yeah, and. 00:59:04
It does create. 00:59:08
So you're. 00:59:10
Because these garages are just up so close, it creates protection. 00:59:11
And by the time they get so far into some of these. 00:59:20
Extreme measures. 00:59:24
How you likely that if? 00:59:27
They have a good designer and architect. They can say, well, that money would be better spent. 00:59:29
Raising the property and starting over. 00:59:33
Not that that would be a hope because that eliminates affordability aspect, but. 00:59:38
It comes into compliance with your 10 foot. 00:59:43
Set back. 00:59:46
So did we start on the 80% on the list that that is not? 00:59:57
Accessory buildings not. 01:00:02
Dwelling units, right? 01:00:04
Right. 01:00:07
If your neighbor. 01:00:10
Didn't care for example. 01:00:12
Do they have like take that garage? 01:00:14
And they didn't. 01:00:18
You know, is it dependent on the neighbor? 01:00:19
If they were to sign something that they don't, they don't care, kind of connect, but rather than I mean, it makes me walk. You 01:00:22
get to be at 10 foot basically walk to be expensive. And if it's a building that's been there for who knows how long and they're 01:00:27
used to it and the neighbor doesn't care. 01:00:31
I don't know, just thinking of those kinds of sessions. 01:00:37
A lot of cities kind of went. 01:00:40
For those ad hoc variance type situations, if neighbor signs off on it then. 01:00:43
However, we're enforcing those over the long period of time. 01:00:50
If they didn't catch that during their own due diligence. 01:00:56
Usually. 01:01:01
To a situation where they. 01:01:03
Respecting the city on a preexisting agreement. 01:01:04
I think that's something that's up to the council. I don't know if that's something that's do those scenarios come before you very 01:01:10
often or ever? Usually they would come to us in a boundary line agreement. 01:01:16
Situation where the two neighbors didn't necessarily move a property, but they agreed to. 01:01:23
Call the barbed wire fence. In there since the 20s. 01:01:29
And the new owner gets a survey that says it's not. 01:01:34
But I mean the scenarios where you have somebody wanting to do something that's. 01:01:42
Is non conforming. You know with the non conforming. 01:01:47
So then that list of existing provisions that are allowed for existing buildings is. 01:02:16
Bulleted list on your page stream your second order. 01:02:22
Where are we now? 01:02:37
So really we're around lines 130 through 153. 01:02:44
Draft. 01:02:49
Hey, this is minor but since we're trying to get to a final document. 01:02:52
I'm just wondering on the numbering and lettering on this stuff like. 01:02:58
Yeah, should 126 DBC. 01:03:02
HSBC and that'll change. 01:03:09
It will. We'll go through. Yeah, I'm just saying you might as well clean these up. 01:03:13
139.8. 01:03:17
Should that just be 9? 01:03:22
Heard that right? 01:03:26
Flight One 39130. 01:03:29
1:30 should be 9 and 1:37 should be D. 01:03:33
And 1:39 should be CI believe yes. 01:03:39
So anyway, blah blah blah. 01:03:43
Anyway, so if you're comfortable with what's going on with the. 01:03:54
Proposals. 01:03:57
We still have. 01:03:59
Opportunity to discuss if you want to. 01:04:01
Chat about these details or understand them. 01:04:03
We can create a cleaner. 01:04:06
Do you have any concerns with any of these? 01:04:11
I still have a concern with the 10 foot set back. 01:04:16
From my point of view, when you look at. 01:04:20
Protection of. 01:04:23
Property rights and equal application of property rights. 01:04:24
Difference between a garage or. 01:04:29
Full house should not be any different than an accessory door either. 01:04:31
I didn't think any of the Planning Commission had stuck with a 10 feet, but I didn't think we had. 01:04:35
Well, it's still in there and we're trying to figure out how to reduce that based upon circumstances. Yeah. 01:04:40
If you want to remove all the circumstances. 01:04:46
Because you had it before just based on lot size, right? Yeah. 01:04:48
If you want to remove all those contextual treatments to reduce by percentages and just stick to accessory building setbacks, 01:04:52
here's your lot size, here's your accessibility. Doesn't matter what it is. 01:04:57
That's what I prefer. It's a lot easier to enforce. 01:05:05
You don't get into neighboring property agreements, it gets to be recorded and enforced later. 01:05:08
Removes a lot of somewhat arbitrary. 01:05:16
Adjustments. 01:05:20
Let's Scroll down because you've got it right here in the start, right? 13.14, right there, right there, right? So that right 01:05:24
column. 01:05:27
45689 based on lot size instead of the minimum of 10 regardless. 01:05:34
It just increases by 25%. 01:05:40
And that you would not have any of these contact treatments you took that out to because we're not saying an accessory building is 01:05:43
10 feet. That's the column in the middle of 34567. Yes, it's just that it's an Adu. 01:05:50
Where we're increasing by 25% or the 10 foot minimum. 01:05:58
I mentioned it before and frankly. 01:06:04
I do a lot of auto repair work in my own garage. I can make a lot more noise than an accessory doing it again. 01:06:08
I'm not in love with the 10 foot thing. 01:06:17
I kind of like 25% increase. 01:06:22
I'm OK with 25% increase model as opposed to the. 01:06:26
Instead of slapping A10 foot mineral on it. 01:06:29
Primarily because you've got the non accessory dwelling unit 1. 01:06:33
That's not changing. That's not going to 10 feet, right? 01:06:38
But then if we have somebody converting you. 01:06:42
Through an Adu. 01:06:48
Then they use the context treatments to. 01:06:50
Litigation. 01:06:54
Well, ideally if they were, say, they built a garage last year, they would have been conforming to the middle column. 01:06:56
If they would convert and they wouldn't, they wouldn't have to do anything. They could just. 01:07:03
Maybe apply some buffering standards that you are comfortable with. 01:07:07
Otherwise, even just a 25% increase, the last year's garage that need to be converted in this year's Adu couldn't be built. 01:07:15
To come there to find some elements to buffer. 01:07:21
So we would we would require the buffering. 01:07:27
If you were to keep the 25%. 01:07:31
So to be clear, you were suggesting that the last column go away. 01:07:32
I'm more comfortable with the 25% increase. 01:07:39
What, you're saying you're more comfortable with the numbers in red? No, no. 01:07:44
No, no, no. With that, with that entire calling away. 01:07:49
Regardless of what type of use is going on inside the structure. 01:07:54
He's saying if he has a garage that's three feet away from the property line, he could be just as noisy and cause just as much of 01:07:58
a nuisance. 01:08:02
More maybe than. 01:08:07
It's either that or move the far right column into the middle column. 01:08:12
Yes or yes. Yes, yes. So they're the same, Yes. 01:08:19
Substitute out the other testing more regardless. 01:08:23
That seems like to be the better compromise. 01:08:27
Make column four into column three. 01:08:30
Going good. 01:08:32
Yeah, you're taking all the numbers in the right column and just applying them to. 01:08:35
Well. 01:08:40
Just because then. 01:08:43
I don't how it has been. Has worked fine for the case. My personal preference would be to lose that last column. 01:08:46
Try it and see how it goes and see if we have complaints and if we had to, you know, increase the rehearsal. Grandfather, 01:08:55
grandfather cases. Did you agree with that? 01:08:59
The only caveat to that is the problem that we have had in the past is once you get into. 01:09:04
Category of over. 01:09:10
An acre and a half to two acres. 01:09:13
This number keeps getting higher and it's kind of in. It gets ridiculous. 01:09:15
Doesn't make any difference if you have a cat, the Max is. 01:09:20
Yeah, let's get there. 01:09:25
Right. 01:09:28
Yeah, just because you've got a big lot right at some point to. 01:09:33
40,000 up or whatever. 01:09:39
Yeah, that's just been. 01:09:46
I totally agree with that point of contention at the counter when you say 2 acres have to be 15 feet away from my neighbor. 01:09:49
Right. 01:09:56
Let's dig between two acres and an acre. 01:09:57
But it's only two to three feet. 01:10:02
I agree is is isn't in a residential scenario isn't 10 foot. 01:10:05
It is reasonable. 01:10:11
Now that's something that was not considered at all. 01:10:15
Under this limit. 01:10:21
OK. So if we were to take that. 01:10:32
4th column and justice move it into the third column. Is that what you're saying? Or just keep the third column as it is? Let me 01:10:36
just keep again. 01:10:39
My take would be. 01:10:43
I would suggest keeping the third column. 01:10:45
See how it goes, and it can always be revisited if there are issues that arise. 01:10:47
Are you saying that we should really cap it at 10? 01:10:52
So you just eliminate all those? Can you eliminate all the lots below that? So 47476 and above? 01:10:56
Or over, over 47601, Yeah. 01:11:06
Far from life. 01:11:10
Well, I'm more worried about 3 feet from a property line having a window. 01:11:13
Into another window. 01:11:17
That's where that's where I go. 01:11:20
Chris, that also assumes that the adjacent properties on the back of the lot. 01:11:29
And it's not an Adu? Or are you looking at Adu? 01:11:36
Well, our backyard neighbors were like on a corner and they. 01:11:44
Extended back behind their garage and have a window that's. 01:11:49
Really, really close and they always keep the blinds up and stuff that. 01:11:53
If they didn't, we could see just. 01:11:57
Straight into everything. 01:12:00
Does the difference of a few feet make it? I mean, does it? Does it make it a? 01:12:04
6 feet you have the same problem, right? That's true. 01:12:11
So right now you can build a garage 3 feet from your property. 01:12:16
Right in that lot range. 01:12:20
Which is a super small and that's what the consideration is your rear yard smaller? 01:12:23
So the more you move it in, it just becomes useless. Not useless, but. 01:12:29
No. 01:12:34
8000 these small homes, they get to be 100 and 5200 foot casinos. 01:12:40
But that would open up the number of blocks that or the number of 80s that could be. 01:12:52
Yes. 01:12:58
Yeah, that's a good consideration. 01:13:01
So we can make that change. 01:13:15
And then bring it back in a more. 01:13:19
Normal draft. 01:13:21
We'll find the. 01:13:26
I am not clear about what this. 01:13:33
This change that we're talking about. 01:13:37
He is back on Shark 13. 01:13:39
That meeting, we eliminate the future chart that would go away. That was up. 01:13:47
After the convergence. 01:13:52
Yeah, conversion. 01:13:55
Oh yes, we can keep it for existing buildings that don't meet that middle. 01:13:58
Say if you aggregate them, your garage is already at. 01:14:05
And did you need to keep that chart to reduce that? 01:14:09
So it's just for conversions only opportunity just for new Adus? 01:14:14
That are required to tend to a set back. If you remove that, then that chart doesn't apply to reducing the set back. 01:14:20
But your existing garage you want to convert. 01:14:28
And it's 2 feet rather than the three you need to pick from one of these buffering. 01:14:33
Elements Series. 01:14:40
Not really mitigate difference. 01:14:43
So does that. 01:14:51
Yeah, unless we get some. 01:14:53
Red herrings should we, So should we be able to? 01:14:59
Take these final. 01:15:03
Changes and come up with a. 01:15:06
Clean coffee at the next meeting to review and say. 01:15:08
Yeah. So at the work session on the 19th, we should be able to. 01:15:14
Finalize these changes and then give it a thumbs up. 01:15:20
I'll just do the 19th, it's pretty. 01:15:24
OK. Sounds good. Great. Thank you very much. 01:15:33
Thanks, John. This is a lot of work. It's been a lot of work. 01:15:36
I just undid all the work that you. 01:15:40
Well, no, it sounds like you made a change. 01:15:44
And I hope that not necessarily for me, but at least for the public to use existing structures. That's the idea. 01:15:47
They have all the existing infrastructure. Well, we don't want to put. I mean, if we can make a change like with your input, that 01:15:54
creates less. 01:15:58
Conflict. 01:16:04
Thank you then. 01:16:05
That's a good thing, right? Picturing justice at the counter, trying to negotiate a chart of reductions in percentage. 01:16:08
All right. I really appreciate it. Thanks, John. 01:16:17
OK. Next meeting is 19th and we'll have everybody here with tie, correct? 01:16:36
Hope you're doing something fun. 01:16:41
I want to see what it's like at four way stops if they're. 01:16:43
And I just have that to go all the way. 01:16:51
Maybe we can be switched? 01:17:00
Aye. 01:17:12
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So the. 00:00:01
Any questions of the? 00:00:04
I don't. I mean, I'm happy to. 00:00:11
As long as we have that other issue cleared up, I'm fine with it. I just don't want to do any more of these things. Or we assume 00:00:15
somebody is going to do something and raise zone and then have the title, which is not the case here, but he's happy to talk to us 00:00:19
about. 00:00:23
Opportunities for moderate income housing options after the fact, which I think would be great, but. 00:00:28
For me, when I look at this in terms of the room and. 00:00:34
Ord. And where that parcel is. 00:00:39
Which is located kind of within an existing Ord zone and the fact that we text amended the zone to allow for multi family which I 00:00:43
think would probably be a good opportunity on this site because. 00:00:49
It is going to be touch the build. I just don't have any. I read the staff report to me it's. 00:00:56
I don't have any issues with it. I don't either. I visited the site, I'm familiar with the site. I biked past the site a number of 00:01:05
times. I drove up there the other day. 00:01:09
Given the slope on the east and the north, and even a fair amount of slope, you know, between those residences and that property, 00:01:14
it's fairly protected. 00:01:20
Not only by this slope, but also huge tree sands which I imagine are going to keep the tree stand. 00:01:27
I don't see that it really encroached. 00:01:34
Really at all on those residences significantly. 00:01:38
Yeah, and the only difference between. 00:01:43
This parcel being Ord and the rest of that whole Ord area is this one happens to dump out on Big Cut with Canyon Road and all the 00:01:49
other ones dumped out on Lyon Road or the other private road. That's really the only difference. 00:01:56
But the fact that it's so protected with slopes. 00:02:04
And I drove up the old Mill Circle Rd. 00:02:09
And tried to take it from the look at them from the perspective of those homes. 00:02:13
Because I want to treat those neighbors as if they were also holiday residents in terms of this issue. I don't want to take that 00:02:18
attitude, but so the gravel pit. 00:02:23
But I didn't feel like. 00:02:32
There was really much. 00:02:36
Going on there that there's a whole lot to complain about. 00:02:40
I just didn't feel like there's much to complain. Well, you know the other thing there is, at least in my mind. 00:02:43
Because of both sloping. One of those sloping issues. 00:02:50
I'm not sure you're ever going to get anything on that site with an RM zone because. 00:02:55
I don't think you'd be able to get enough density on there to make sense of it. Where? 00:03:00
And I don't think they'll be able to go to 75 feet anyway because of the setback. They're going to have the residential and then 00:03:04
they're, you know, the graduated height, but they can get enough massing on there. 00:03:10
If they can park it to make it economical and maybe they can do, maybe we would have an opportunity to do some affordability. 00:03:17
Coordination with them with some of our RDA funds. 00:03:26
I just don't want the rezone to be predicated on the fact that that's going to happen, right? 00:03:30
Primarily, I think that. 00:03:37
Biggest issue, we don't know how much we commit and. 00:03:39
If we do. 00:03:42
Yeah. Is this locked outside of the RDA? 00:03:44
Project area, yeah. 00:03:48
I think that was expired. Anyway, that one has expired. 00:03:52
I'm surprised I was told that about Chicago Hearts. 00:04:02
Maybe they decided it wasn't how big the NFL starts tonight. 00:04:08
Well, I don't know. I've done the same thing that Paul has driven over there. I looked around and I would agree with your 00:04:14
assessment. 00:04:17
100% that. 00:04:22
I do not predicate our decision based on this, but I would be interested. You mentioned earlier there are some. 00:04:24
Levers or incentives that we can do to help encourage some of these workforce housing options or combination, What are those? 00:04:33
Yeah. What are those tools that we do have? 00:04:44
Well, primarily their financial tools that are. 00:04:48
Somebody that come from various spots of funding from. 00:04:51
Specifically for. 00:04:57
So. 00:05:02
Would or would not offer anything. 00:05:06
We're looking for partners to qualify to partner with that they were interested in. 00:05:09
All right, just like I said that the leak that's affordable housing for two days straight, so. 00:05:16
Want to know what's available? One thing I thought there might be an opportunity. 00:05:22
If the traffic. 00:05:27
I can't imagine how many units in here would actually create much. 00:05:29
And additional traffic demand, but. 00:05:33
It's kind of a little. 00:05:36
Blind corner coming around here. That's primarily because of this overgrowth right here, which would probably go away. 00:05:37
But then right here is where you've got, it's one lane each way here, but it goes to two lanes right there. There might be an 00:05:43
opportunity. 00:05:48
To start that two lane. 00:05:53
Either here or even here at the border. 00:05:55
Something to consider, because right here you've got an orphan sidewalk segment that goes nowhere. 00:05:59
You got full sidewalk on this side. I mean, it ends right here and picks up again over here. But this is there's no sidewalk here. 00:06:04
They've got 1 here. 00:06:09
Well, it's kind of political on this side. Either you got on this side, you got this side. So this is kind of orphan and there is 00:06:14
some flat land right there. So there could be room to expand. We have a 2 lane piece that starts here and take it back to here or 00:06:23
here and then ameliorate some of this traffic coming here, the blind corner here, opportunity for some improvement. 00:06:31
Right there. 00:06:40
Yeah, if we get to the site time review, we can definitely keep that in mind as we look at off site. 00:06:43
But. 00:06:52
The developer will be putting in there. 00:06:54
So there wouldn't be anything. 00:06:57
At least that. 00:07:01
Select. 00:07:04
Is all that. 00:07:07
Hefty grammar. Just part of the Christian Church. 00:07:09
Yeah, they went all the way down. 00:07:12
That's all extremely slow. 00:07:15
Any idea how much higher that first house is on old mill circle elevation length? 00:07:18
Here, Yeah. 00:07:23
6070 feet. 00:07:25
Accentuated fairly frankly of any. 00:07:29
Of the two-story, you know. 00:07:31
Concerns and stuff like that. 00:07:33
That is going to be set back quite a ways from that hole too, if they get up to yeah, and you got a big tree stand there and it 00:07:37
also just has a natural slope there. 00:07:41
They have is the possibility of short term rentals. 00:07:52
And that was their concern with all of these. 00:08:01
But there's lots of hotel. 00:08:06
I know. 00:08:08
Yeah, it's really what it's your next door neighbor, right? So I'm, you know, I'm just. 00:08:12
OK, I. 00:08:24
Well, we'll post it for the 19th. 00:08:27
Thanks. 00:08:31
Gary Carrier wrote the staff. 00:08:34
OK. 00:08:48
This is just a. 00:08:50
Update on where we are at with our projects we are spending on our stormwater. 00:08:52
Bond. 00:09:03
We've got about a dozen different projects going on in the city and I wanted to. 00:09:04
Just report on each one individually, let you know the status of them. 00:09:10
As well as the budget, how much that budget has been spent and. 00:09:16
So forth. So I've provided a map here of the each project location and I've also provided a. 00:09:20
Spreadsheet cable listing each project and the status of the budget each project so. 00:09:27
I will first, I guess, start at the top of the map and work right down, and then I'll just kind of move into that table. 00:09:36
We have a project here on El Dorado Mass District is under construction right now and. 00:09:44
You're welcome. 00:09:52
Umm, it should be done in another couple of weeks. It was flooding out a couple of houses that were. 00:09:54
On Westwood there. 00:10:04
That's the right street, right? Northwood. Northwood. 00:10:08
So by constructing this project, we should be able to protect those houses. 00:10:11
Our next project, also Mass District is this house that we demoed last bought in demo last year on Holiday Blvd. Just a real quick 00:10:19
update on that. We are trying to work with the adjacent property owners we are expecting to receive a offer from. 00:10:30
An adjacent property owner for the purchase of that vacant parcel. Now that's something we will I'm sure, be updating the council 00:10:42
on. 00:10:46
Possibly in October or something. Presumably that person won't be able to build there, so they have to rebuy another answer. 00:10:52
They don't wanna build on it. We would be putting a cabinet over the majority of the site. We would probably be. 00:11:01
The upper portion of that property available for building well. 00:11:09
There have to be set back issues, but we probably would put that no build on the. 00:11:15
Elevated portion of the site. 00:11:21
We are also working through a couple of the logistics with the. 00:11:24
Money that was used to purchase it, which is ARPA funds if we sell. 00:11:29
That project, I think we had to reinvest that ARPA money back into. 00:11:36
I'm not 100% certain, but that's something that we're looking into. 00:11:41
That doesn't need to be made into micro retention pond or anything. 00:11:49
We do not have any plans on making it a retention fund. 00:11:53
What I'm getting at is if we sell it. 00:11:57
Can we protect ourselves from future liability at anytime? 00:12:00
We were working with. 00:12:04
Else Todd Gaffery on what language would be included in that sale and what gets recorded. It becomes a swimming pool. It's on 00:12:07
them, yes. 00:12:11
Next also Matt district we had a hobbies. 00:12:20
Area that was frequent over on Wellington we. 00:12:25
Stop. You guys can figure out. 00:12:34
Is that your fault? 00:12:39
We had a ponding spot there that we fixed. A what? Bonding like drainage there just didn't work. There was something that was 00:12:47
pretty healthy and we spent a bunch of money making it right. 00:12:53
Umm, we also did some. 00:13:01
Overt rehabilitation on the canal here across the Murray Holiday Rd. That's 100% down. This is Wellington storm drains 100% done. 00:13:06
We are in the works. This is not under our storm drain. 00:13:18
On, but I thought I would throw it in here. It's under our roadway. Bond is a bridge deck replacement. 00:13:22
On Highland Circle, actually this Murray holiday over rehabilitation is also part of our bridge fund under the roadway but. 00:13:30
So I'm just tossing those in there is. 00:13:41
Site projects that you might be interested in. 00:13:43
Our Metamorphose 1 project is under construction. 00:13:48
It's a. 00:13:54
It's one of our biggest projects that we're doing in the city and. 00:13:58
We are really happy with the contractor that's been working out there. It was a slow start. They had a lot of conflicts to deal 00:14:03
with. But once they got those underground utilities out of the way, they've been making pretty steady progress and we are 00:14:09
expecting that that project would be complete at the end of the month. 00:14:16
At the end of this month. 00:14:24
Yeah, the first party over there. 00:14:25
There'll probably be some touch ups that would go on in October, but for the most part it will be done by the end of this month. 00:14:29
That's Phase 1 of what we're calling metamor. Phase 2 is through Salt Lake City property. We're calling that Metamorphase 2. 00:14:38
And this is all part of the storm drain system, same storm drain system like all this here connects up to that there. 00:14:50
So this is the second portion where we're having big problems. In fact, I've provided a photo of this storm drain on page 2 if you 00:14:59
want to scan. 00:15:04
Our city. 00:15:10
It is outside the city. 00:15:10
And nobody wants. 00:15:13
It's something that has been in our. 00:15:17
Capital plan Stormwater master planning for years. 00:15:20
It's. 00:15:26
In Mill Creek. But they don't want anything to do with it. It backs up and it floods our residents. 00:15:30
And it's our water that is dragging into this area. No one drop of milk creeks water actually gets into it. 00:15:36
It's a 48 inch pipe. 00:15:45
So. 00:15:50
This is all root mass here and root mass here. 00:15:51
And it's. 00:15:56
Grown into this storm drain pipe and blocking I think over 90% of it. 00:15:58
So we. 00:16:05
This pipe was constructed with. 00:16:10
It's an interesting. 00:16:13
Techniques as well. There's no way to rehabilitate this system. Like, no way. 00:16:15
The only option is replace this pipe, so that's what we're going to do. 00:16:21
For those of you that have been on the Council for a long time. 00:16:27
Yeah. 00:16:33
So. 00:16:42
So it means replacement is the only thing you can really do. 00:16:44
Yeah, you know, when I started looking at this 5-6 years ago, I thought, oh, we could get in there and get these roots out and 00:16:47
make this thing functional again. 00:16:52
I get that idea a long time ago after I looked into it a lot closer, but this is across 13 piece then to the north of Saint 00:16:59
Vincents. Sorry. 00:17:04
So Salt Lake City owns a piece of property there that they use as a yard and but mostly for pumping groundwater. So it's very high 00:17:12
groundwater cable there. It's an aquifer with artesian wells on it. 00:17:20
And as far as north-south of Saint Vincent, I think the West. 00:17:28
Yeah, Westville, so north. 00:17:35
I mean this piece of the West of. 00:17:39
That side of our prop is this sort of outside of our property line. Yeah, yeah. So West of 13, just South of Murray Holiday Rd. 00:17:42
Right. So N the same base, yeah. 00:17:51
Between there. 00:17:54
So if you want to go back to a map. So would it be fair to say then that? 00:17:56
The big piece of pace flow we're doing, we'll jump into that storm grade it is. So if we don't, if we don't correct that, Mill 00:18:04
Creek won't correct it. It's going to keep backing up. Yeah, even if we put in new infrastructure. So even this spring, we've had 00:18:10
three flooded basements. 00:18:16
On. 00:18:23
Rebecca Circle. 00:18:26
Convinced them all to. 00:18:28
But yes, if we don't do anything, we continue our problems. 00:18:36
Let me back up. We have one house that actually had water, and we had two houses that were very close. 00:18:42
To heavy watering. 00:18:48
So that's that project a little more phase two, AKA the jungle. 00:18:53
Umm, now we've got 2. 00:18:59
Big projects under construction that will be done by the end of the month as well. In fact, I think Castle Lane might be done as. 00:19:02
Nearly done by the end of next week. 00:19:12
It's been under construction for two months. 00:19:16
We're cheering over here. Yeah, I. 00:19:20
On the lane. 00:19:24
Come this winter we will be replacing the bridge across the canal there as well, so that'll start construction. 00:19:27
In November, likely. 00:19:34
Hilton is also under construction that should that will be done by the end of the month. 00:19:40
They are just into this upper portion on that dead end. 00:19:49
Cottonwood Lane Storm Grain started yesterday. 00:19:54
And that will continue. 00:20:01
Likely into early November. They might be able to finish by the end of October. 00:20:05
Does that address? 00:20:12
Does Caso and Cottonwood address the? 00:20:15
Awareness issues or is that? Yes, yes, all three of these projects were actually needed to do that. 00:20:19
Still and then the apps as well I guess. 00:20:30
Yeah. 00:20:37
Yeah, right at the bottom of the hill, essentially. Is that right? 00:20:38
On Cottonwood, yeah, it dumps into the Kotlin treatment on the Northside. On the Northside, it goes up to that property. 00:20:41
There's catch basins on. 00:20:49
You know, potentially in the future we might want to extend that further. 00:20:56
North but. 00:21:00
That would be more of a long term storm drain. 00:21:02
Put into a more long term storm drain faster plan. 00:21:06
Update umm. 00:21:12
Down here on Holiday Blvd. We constructed a storm drain that was essentially a bubble up that was discharging a lot of storm water 00:21:17
into the front of the Carmel Monastery, flowing over land, getting into their shed and other buildings. 00:21:27
Destroying their grass and everything. So we constructed a storm drain through their property to their back where that water can 00:21:38
then make this way too big Copper Creek. 00:21:43
Umm. 00:21:49
Over here we have another bridge replacement project that bid closed today. 00:21:52
That one, we are receiving grant money. 00:21:57
For that replacement. 00:22:01
That's not a bond project at all, but it is a project that will be starting. 00:22:03
In November we'll have some Rd. closures. 00:22:11
On 5600 S we will be noticing on that project. 00:22:16
Umm. 00:22:23
Moving South? 00:22:27
Will be starting a. 00:22:29
Project on the Tanner Ditch where the ditch is open. 00:22:32
And it's problematic because it collects leaves and needles and it's going through properties and they don't make it. 00:22:38
Backs up in clause and it has caused flooding. 00:22:48
We have a pre construction meeting on that tomorrow, so that project will be complete. We would expect that end of September, 00:22:53
maybe middle of October. 00:22:58
We've done some. 00:23:04
Upgrades over on Sonoma Drive to minimize or to better capture the storm water coming onto Sonoma Drive and get it over into the 00:23:07
canal. And in addition to that, we built the storm drain on 2300 E 100% done to minimize storm water going over to Sonoma. 00:23:18
So those two projects have. 00:23:31
Your community, I mean, you've had some pretty heavy rainfalls a couple weeks ago. 00:23:36
It'll make nothing. It's been great. OK, good. 00:23:41
Promising it's completely eliminated for all storms, but I think you'll see that lake reappear very infrequently. 00:23:46
We're very happy. 00:23:55
So what are all these projects costing and what are the statuses? 00:23:57
These are their budgets. 00:24:03
So we've got. 00:24:06
Five of them complete. 00:24:10
And then we've got another. 00:24:13
Or going to be done by the end of this month and then we're still. 00:24:16
A few that were starting. 00:24:22
One of the things that's not on the map is our. 00:24:25
Rehabilitation of our existing corrugated metal pipes. 00:24:30
That are used for storm grains. So those are the rusting pipes that are failing. They're they're corroded, they're causing 00:24:35
sinkholes. 00:24:40
So we are going in with liners and putting a new fiberglass liner inside of those pipes and stabilizing them to rehabilitate them. 00:24:46
That's a $2.5 million project. We're only we're less, a little less than 5%. 00:24:56
That is actually done because they're still going through those packs that are going to be lined. Clean them. 00:25:03
Before they put liners in. 00:25:11
That project will supposed to be done by the end of the year. I think that. 00:25:13
Extended to the new year. 00:25:20
Probably a month maybe, but that money is all committed. I mean, you know where those liners are all going. And we do, yeah. 00:25:22
So that I would say takes care of. 00:25:31
78th percent of our. 00:25:35
Corrugated metal pipe issues. 00:25:39
So I could see maybe the next few years that we would. 00:25:46
Maybe look at finding some money. 00:25:51
Continue to do more of those. 00:25:55
Pretty much taps out our bond, proceeds. 00:26:00
This stuff, Yeah. That's it, yeah. 00:26:03
Can you remind us? 00:26:06
We've got our stormwater fee in place and I want to say. 00:26:09
I want to say that I remember it made about $1,000,000 a year. 00:26:14
And are bonded about 700,000. So we still are. We still have. 00:26:19
300,000 a year. 00:26:24
Or so of money fish because we pay a portion of both Joe and Jerry get paid out of that fund. So let's say that's 8000 ish between 00:26:26
the two of them. 00:26:32
So we've got a little more. 00:26:41
To spend. 00:26:43
But I don't know if it council will remember, but. 00:26:45
When we did our financial sustainability plan. 00:26:51
Our consultant recommended that this is something we look at. 00:26:55
Or stormwater fee, as is what? 00:27:01
Yeah, we'll get this done by the time we get done. Essentially what you're saying is. 00:27:10
There's not. 00:27:14
A material amount of funds available on an annual basis for ongoing maintenance so that work may be where a future council wants 00:27:16
to look at. 00:27:21
Remember that and say the. 00:27:27
ERU is like 650 and their recommendation is like $290.00 or something four or five years. So you get. 00:27:30
Four or $500,000 a year money you can use to maintain your store price. Exactly. My view is that this is not the kind of thing 00:27:38
that should be bonded for except when we get ourselves in a hole. But they're going forward. What you bond for is like buildings 00:27:45
and opportunity to buy parks that for regular. This is regular maintenance. This should be annual budget. There should be. 00:27:53
Funds allocated annually as opposed to. 00:28:01
Deferred bank is deferred bank is deferred Venice and a whammo you got to do a big bond and as the survey. 00:28:05
It's on your electric. 00:28:13
Yeah, because we don't have a building, partners are rocking up power Flex. If they charge us a fee, you'll see if you look at 00:28:15
your power bill, you'll see. This is when we have the state area that has a different rate. 00:28:21
Plan of how to improve this. 00:28:37
Along Lake Holloway and. 00:28:39
Holly Blvd. 00:28:43
So we did. 00:28:44
You just the question, is there a way to protect that property or is there still there's still some concerns in that area? 00:28:46
So none of those we don't have a great solution to. 00:28:59
Committee day on the storm issues in that area at the current. 00:29:09
Which is why we want to have you, because that was the cheaper solution it was. We do know that there are ongoing issues there, 00:29:13
however. 00:29:18
We haven't put it into the bond projects and it would be something that we would study. 00:29:24
In the future, maybe this is a gross oversimplification, but essentially we bought us. 00:29:32
But we don't have good routing to it to keep the flood. 00:29:41
Talking about. 00:29:45
Right. Yeah. And that would be very costly to improve the. 00:29:46
The drainage stood off the body Blvd. Yeah, and I think that might be referring to just other drainage in the area outside of the 00:29:50
goalie. Or are you only referring to that goalie? I think when there's a big story coming down Hallway and down Holiday Blvd. 00:30:00
Lesson Longview. 00:30:10
And I think it all sort of ends there for. 00:30:14
Yes, it goes up and over Holly Blvd. and kind of gathers and collects down and goes through those people's yards that are just on 00:30:17
the left side of Hollywood, right? 00:30:21
Yeah, we don't have any other houses that are under threat of flooding there, but we do have this kind of storm water going 00:30:26
wherever it wants to. 00:30:31
One question on the while we're on the topic back on the stormwater fund though. So in an ideal scenario we would have. 00:30:47
That money that we collect from the stormwater fund, stormwater. 00:30:53
Fee sustaining our ongoing maintenance and sufficient to handle it and we think that that budget number should be what. 00:30:59
And that's a great question. I think we're going to need to update our. 00:31:10
We've really made a ton of progress. 00:31:17
But my recollection is somewhere in the errors that the. 00:31:20
Four or five years ago. 00:31:24
Yes, I, I, I remember that we went through that and they, they basically went. 00:31:31
So 50% more than this right now, yeah. They basically said, you know, this will get you your bonding and it'll allow you to. 00:31:37
To make these critical. 00:31:45
Infrastructure improvements. 00:31:48
Pulsing pulse absolutely right that you shouldn't be bonding for this stuff. We should have enough annual income coming into 00:31:51
properly maintain what we've got. So I think the question would be. 00:31:57
Is is there a way to quantify that which is? I think they did said look, you need. 00:32:03
You really should be spending $1,000,000 a year if you want whatever that number is, and so your fee should be this and. 00:32:08
That was about the time we should be looking at that and. 00:32:15
Once this gets in I think. 00:32:19
Our Council. 00:32:21
What do we think is a proper amount of money to generate to responsibly maintain what we have? 00:32:23
And based on that. 00:32:30
What? What should the proper fee be? I can tell you from. 00:32:33
A little bit of higher storm water fee is really, really low. 00:32:38
And not like that, but this, that fee would be one that really should be adjusted with inflation over time as well. Just because 00:32:42
that maintenance doesn't doesn't get cheaper, right? 00:32:46
No. 00:32:54
So. 00:33:00
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that should be. 00:33:04
Something. 00:33:06
That's all going to be done. It looks like in the April May time frame. That would be a great time maybe next budget season to 00:33:08
look at, you know, okay, let's, let's pull that back up. Let's look at what they said. Let's reevaluate what we've done and start 00:33:13
talking about. 00:33:18
What a proper storm rate fee should be. 00:33:23
I like that because it provides transparency to residents. This is the hospital and it goes to a specific function. It doesn't go 00:33:27
away with general pool so. 00:33:31
But this is a big deal. Well done. 00:33:36
Just one other comment again, while we're on the topic with this Oiler property and the how much buildable area is there to the 00:33:39
higher elevation? 00:33:42
I think it's like. 00:33:46
25 feet from the property line. So not enough for a residential No. I think the neighbor was trying to maybe carve off this strict 00:33:48
building. Garage back there, but pool house? 00:33:54
Some lot line adjustments and things like that, so. 00:34:02
So if a person brought in Phil. 00:34:09
And to get to keep the elevation up, though mostly I'm just thinking because 900 grand or something like that for that. 00:34:12
Chunk of money and I just want to maximize the value for the city's sake right If we if there was some course where we're 00:34:18
protected from the risks that we bought it for right but then and so if neighbors are going to get together and offer us 25 grand 00:34:25
or 50 grand or something for that property. I would say before bringing that to us maybe you all feel differently but I would say 00:34:31
let's at least look at. 00:34:38
If there's other possibilities that could get us more like what a buildable lot would be, which might be with 400%. 00:34:45
OK. 00:34:53
How far do you want us to go? 00:34:59
With that. 00:35:02
I don't spend a lot of time on it, but at least look at it and if it's possible and. 00:35:06
Then. 00:35:12
If there's a difference, potentially 350 or four, $50,000. 00:35:16
Again, what's the single family residence? I mean, we could probably turn it into a buildable lot if that's the City Council is 00:35:21
directing us to do. It would cost money. 00:35:27
By bringing in some fill. 00:35:33
Also, you want to make sure, does that mean the limit of our liability? I don't want more liability, but well, I think. 00:35:37
From an engineering perspective, it is feasible. From a zoning perspective and. 00:35:47
It is 3 lots. It's at 2 lots. In front of it there's. 00:35:53
And parking has always been issued back there so. 00:35:59
I think it depends on, I think if somebody is going to make an offer, maybe you want to see what the offer is. And I think so we 00:36:03
did get a. 00:36:08
Appraisal done on it and the appraisal. 00:36:13
So we have given the appraisal to. 00:36:22
Adjacent property owners, that was. 00:36:25
So that would be an issue where once we got the closed session and say, OK, and then I see what you're saying that Ty is we want 00:36:29
to do the best we can for a residence and it's certainly something we can at least have a conversation about. And then. 00:36:37
Yeah, OK, cool. 00:36:45
Yeah, I agree with Paul though. 00:36:48
Yeah, that's a lot of, that's a lot of work to get to this point where it's. 00:36:51
Like half of it's done and half of it's on the road to be done by say, end of April. 00:36:57
We spent two years planning many of these projects and. 00:37:04
And we're in the construction review. So sorry. One other thing while we're on topic too, RJ Gordon and company, I don't know if 00:37:07
you're familiar with them or not, they're a holiday resident that have a really innovative new business that they're going to ask 00:37:13
me to sell these all over where they have like some Lidar scanning system about a year ago. 00:37:18
I gave him some data. 00:37:26
And I haven't heard back from them. OK. I just want to make sure that you that the connection was there. And yeah, they're doing 00:37:28
well. 00:37:32
Some of you were aware of them, yeah. They asked us if you R&D were using our storm grade system. 00:37:37
So I don't know. 00:37:44
From that R&D? 00:37:46
Yeah, OK, great. 00:37:48
I was hoping to hear back from I can make that happen. 00:37:49
OK. 00:37:53
All right. Thanks, Jared. So finally is the Adu thing. So the Adu things in AD is in the packet. 00:37:55
Steve and I are talking about this earlier, trying to jump our own memories about. 00:38:04
How far you've got, but I think John and the staff did a pretty good job of. 00:38:09
Restating. 00:38:14
The issues that we are going to work on and. 00:38:16
I think what we do is just start going through them and. 00:38:19
See how many get a thumbs up and how many we still have work to do. 00:38:22
You know, it's like I said, I don't. I'd love to get it done, but I think it's more important that we get it right and get it 00:38:27
done. 00:38:30
I think once this is done. 00:38:34
We're going to start seeing you're going to speak with you. Well, so we want to be comfortable that we've got the ordinance in 00:38:36
place, we want to have in place. So I'll let you just take it from there, start walking us through it, okay? 00:38:43
So I'll start with the staff report and talk about where we left off in Maple May. 00:38:52
Have been feeling really good about the council. Was was OK with the amendments that came from 5:00. 00:39:00
Sort of what we left open-ended. 00:39:06
Kind of over on the fence about. 00:39:09
Specifically. 00:39:13
Obviously we have some state code that requires these amendments. 00:39:16
What we wanted to do is expand and clarify owner occupied. 00:39:19
Parking requirements were tied to parking standards for the bedroom that was added outside of was already existing. 00:39:29
No real minimum lot size for. 00:39:40
At an Adu that has either. 00:39:43
If it's interior to the property. 00:39:47
Yeah. 00:39:50
No special consideration for corner lots or double fronting lots. The idea there was. 00:39:53
Regardless of what lot size you had if you were a corner. 00:39:59
You could detach that unit from the house. 00:40:02
That was an idea, but. 00:40:05
Specific scenario. 00:40:08
New language for additional height 5 feet over what was normally allowed for detached. 00:40:13
So 25 feet rather than 20. 00:40:19
For. 00:40:22
That allows for some upstairs. 00:40:23
Loft height. 00:40:26
For. 00:40:28
Sitting above a garage. 00:40:29
Removal of this idea of ground level only living space. 00:40:33
The structures within a set back were primary. 00:40:39
I think that was definitely a good movie. 00:40:44
Removal of graduated height standard that was amended by the Planning Commission to be. 00:40:47
26 feet. So if you're imaginary standing at the property line, you have this 6 foot. 00:40:52
Height at a 45° angle that goes in toward the property. 00:40:58
The mass of that building have to be below that height. 00:41:03
Set 6 foot height is not used in the ordinance anywhere rather than 8 feet. 00:41:07
So I think that the council made a good move on keeping that at 8 feet, and it was studied pretty extensively. When that witness 00:41:15
was created, it wasn't really necessary an arbitrary number. 00:41:20
And allows for that second level to begin over. Like if you have a garage, you have a kind of a taller door height for your garage 00:41:26
door header. 00:41:31
When you want to get into an upstairs loft situation, this number comes into play and it's extremely important to make that work. 00:41:36
When you start reducing that, it limits the height that ceiling height. It's usable upstairs. 00:41:43
Compliant with lot coverage maximums. 00:41:53
And that was something that. 00:41:56
Rear yards can be covered with more than a certain percentage of structures that remained in the code. 00:41:59
Is that a percentage? 00:42:08
25%. 00:42:10
Covered with. 00:42:14
And then removal of this idea of restricting windows. 00:42:18
That was direct conflict with. 00:42:24
Egress issues with. 00:42:27
So there has to be with open. 00:42:31
So that brings us to the next section of where we. 00:42:35
Primarily made the majority of the adjustments as per council meeting. Now in my copy, hopefully on the screen you can see the 00:42:39
difference between purple and fuchsia. 00:42:44
My eyes suddenly seemed that well, so I don't care with me. 00:42:49
As you go through these, we tried to pick yeah, I guess you can see them there. 00:42:54
Anyway. 00:43:02
So to start off here, temporary absence was added in this line. 00:43:04
We had some, we had some. 00:43:17
Redundant language in one of these we just removed. 00:43:19
Owner can't live in advance because of the modified temporary absence of three years for temporary absence. 00:43:24
We just cleaned that up. 00:43:30
In that situation, the idea here was you want to have a situation where we don't get into. 00:43:33
Medical issues. 00:43:41
The property owners confirm the medical issue and have medical absence. That's something that we didn't want to touch. 00:43:43
So if it's modified leave of absence for a 36 years or three years, they still have that. 00:43:49
Order occupied criteria that replace the property. 00:43:56
Umm, discussion on being designated in a manner that's compatible with the neighborhood residential vernacular. 00:44:06
This idea floats around a lot of zoning codes that you have construction of. 00:44:12
Pretty much anything. 00:44:17
This idea of has to match its neighborhood. 00:44:19
And that's so arbitrary it could be argued. 00:44:22
At what is the neighborhood holiday? 00:44:25
For some light Mr. Goofy looking things that are each others up. I don't know how you and honestly the nature of a detached into 00:44:30
you lately, especially if you're following anything on Instagram or social media. 00:44:36
It doesn't look like a pure legitimate house. It's usually very modern. 00:44:44
Not have pitched roofs, that type of thing so. 00:44:50
Very difficult to say that it has to follow some sort of architectural standard. Well, it seems like when people like raise the 00:44:53
property and then rebuild, they're not held to some neighborhood vernacular standards, so. 00:44:59
My house. 00:45:08
So we're just checking that out. 00:45:11
Now on to sort of the meat and potatoes of what we were talking about. 00:45:16
Last. 00:45:20
Setbacks. 00:45:23
The concern here revolved around the Planning Commission's recommendation that. 00:45:24
A 10 foot set back was required for all accessory loan years. 00:45:31
Seth kind of bristled at this situation because. 00:45:35
It doesn't really provide equal protection for whether you're building a garage or any garage has smaller setbacks. It could be 00:45:40
shoved into the corner of your backyard. 00:45:45
But if you're proposing to you, it need to be pulled off. 00:45:51
Simple distance. 00:45:54
10 feet or so into the backyard. 00:45:56
This eventually would turn into. 00:46:00
From Sap's point of view and enforcement. 00:46:02
One day it's permitted for us and. 00:46:06
In the next 5 to six months. 00:46:08
However. 00:46:13
What the City Council or the council was looking at. 00:46:15
Specifically with context and some exceptions. 00:46:20
A reduction of that distance. 00:46:24
If your property is next to a canal, your property is next to a big parking lot to a commercial building. 00:46:27
Those situations can reduce that 10 foot number down. 00:46:33
To up into whatever the accessory accessory building set back is. 00:46:38
So. 00:46:44
In the chart, maybe Sydney? 00:46:47
Scroll down a little bit. 00:46:50
We get to it before. These are the context or the treatment elements. 00:46:52
That could be proposed to reduce your set back by a percentage. 00:46:58
These numbers are what we just came up with. 00:47:03
We can talk about these later and if I want to talk about these one-on-one with me, we'll be happy to. 00:47:06
This is what we. 00:47:13
Kind of foresaw as what could possibly be the potential acceptable reduction in that impact? 00:47:15
So if you agree to have with your neighbor Nicholas masonry wall, you can reduce that template by 50%. 00:47:23
8 down, 4 feet or so. 00:47:30
That fourth line item. 00:47:34
Immediately adjacent to the existing accessory building on the neighboring property. 00:47:37
Does that presume that's not an accessory dwelling building? 00:47:41
Not necessarily. 00:47:45
So they get to be. 00:47:47
Yeah, kissing cousin 80 used there. 00:47:49
And also it probably needs to be clarified too, immediately adjacent to the. 00:47:52
But the idea is that. 00:47:58
If one building is set back at 3 feet, do you also get 3 feet? Or if they have a non conforming building and they're at 1 foot set 00:48:01
back? 00:48:05
I don't think we're comfortable with that. 00:48:10
Difference, but at least 80% is allowed to reduce that 10 foot number down if there's. 00:48:13
You can go down to two feet. 00:48:21
80% off. 00:48:23
Yeah, there's, there's some, there's some exceptions in here that says you can't go any closer than what the accessory building 00:48:25
set back is. 00:48:29
Usually that hovers around three to five feet. 00:48:34
Right, right. And so I thought that that certainly makes sense. Well. 00:48:38
Let's say someone is complying with the whatever, it's 10 foot rule. 00:48:45
First neighbor does the 10 foot rule 81 Adu back there, but that's an accessory building. So this guy comes along and he can cheat 00:48:50
because this guys. 00:48:56
Further complied and further. 00:49:02
I think that makes sense if it's not an Adu. 00:49:05
Just the accessory building that's a garage or a ship that who cares? 00:49:09
But like one guys got Adu back there. 00:49:13
And the second guy gets an advantage, which I think could cause some conflict, yeah. 00:49:19
Umm, only I mean I like the idea that other than if it's an Adu. 00:49:26
How is that different than the third from the bottom? Coordination with a budding property owner to build adjacent 80 years. 00:49:31
So if you had one or more neighbors that still had the same idea. 00:49:38
But that really doesn't exist yet. So instead of this is a pre-existing situation. If they didn't have one we all want to do. 00:49:43
And we're all and we're OK with it. We can all have the three foot set back and I'll get clustered. OK, so. 00:49:53
That doesn't mean no set back. That means no that that removes it down to all the way down to what the required set back would be 00:50:01
for an accessory. So if you're just the building garage. 00:50:06
You could take it all the way down to the five foot from the 4th. 00:50:12
Whatever. 00:50:15
So your lot size gets larger that set back. 00:50:18
This is all considering if you're building a new ad's. 00:50:23
A new one comes in. 10 foot is the set back. 00:50:28
Unless you want to reduce it by using some of these. 00:50:31
Hey, Joe, just a minor thing. If we go back to line 65. 00:50:41
Like it looks like C paragraph 2 has been deleted. 00:50:56
So should that transition to 2-3 I mean. 00:51:04
01 to two, yeah, just yes, yeah. 00:51:08
A number in it In it. 00:51:17
No, that actually references that this language that's used in the chart no closer than. 00:51:33
Here's the reference of the title of the column in the chart. 00:51:40
Not this one, but. 00:51:46
I think it's previous. It's up above. 00:51:48
So this. 00:51:52
Mitigating. 00:51:56
Treatment. 00:51:59
What are the mitigating window treatments? 00:52:01
Umm. 00:52:15
So what we were trying to figure out what architectural. 00:52:18
Trends are being used to buffer when there's. 00:52:29
Close impact in every property. So we were looking at is some American Institute of Architecture. 00:52:33
Design styles. 00:52:39
And they were using muted color tones and palettes. 00:52:41
Things that would not be so drastic like white cut painted brick. 00:52:46
Things like that, That's what we use, Buddhist color choice in there. 00:52:51
The problem with all of these elements is this is a ongoing enforcement for. 00:52:57
The neighbor is saying, well yeah, they painted it and muted. 00:53:03
Ground so it kind of blends into whatever landscape they put in there. But now the next neighbor came back and. 00:53:06
So. 00:53:15
Window treatments is essentially a tinted situation. 00:53:20
I might want to just take the color choice off. 00:53:29
And if you have any other ideas, So what we're trying. 00:53:39
Sort of figure out what what would be a business for an aid you really close to the property. 00:53:44
Sometimes it's complaining the colors, sometimes the architecture itself. 00:53:51
I'm wondering. 00:53:58
You can somehow in the design it would be very site specific I think. But if there's an issue where like one window is exactly 00:54:00
aligned with your neighbors window to like. 00:54:05
Offset that I don't know. 00:54:12
Because that's, that's the thing that I noticed like out in Daybreak where they're like that. There's some properties that you can 00:54:14
just see right through. 00:54:18
And the windows are exactly alike, so that's just. 00:54:24
Yeah. And that's kind of why we ranked it so low. 00:54:28
It's not something that's. 00:54:31
That that happens on. 00:54:37
Lower levels. 00:54:38
Yeah, yeah. 00:54:40
And that might not be even something that could be feasibly. 00:54:49
Enforceable at all? 00:54:52
Simply an idea. 00:54:56
Well, in fact, it's listed on the. 00:55:01
List of mitigated mitigated choices doesn't necessarily mean after. 00:55:05
Except that they're both. 00:55:09
So this chart would reply to. 00:55:18
Obviously anything that would be newly proposed new construction and they wanted to reduce that 10 foot. 00:55:21
Provides a negative factor. 00:55:28
So that family that had this son that needed to live. 00:55:31
On their property. 00:55:35
To the original time wouldn't work. 00:55:37
That they have those mature trees that would block. 00:55:40
Am I remembering this right? Wasn't that where it was up against? 00:55:43
Yeah, the Creek or the world was it like. 00:55:48
Express or something like that. Yeah, I think there was something like that it was up against. 00:55:52
And there was a mature tree. So this would these kind of things would help them hopefully address that. 00:55:58
I really do like. 00:56:04
These options to provide context specific guidance. 00:56:06
So these are sort of the exceptions and what would have to be built into the application before that. 00:56:15
And then the next element would have been. 00:56:24
Well, what do we do with existing buildings? 00:56:27
They don't have anywhere near. 00:56:30
This required set. 00:56:32
And. 00:56:36
We understood from the Council that. 00:56:37
This is on the. We were, everybody was on the. 00:56:40
Could you convert an existing garage into an accessory? 00:56:45
Accessory unit. 00:56:48
Like a lot of your neighborhoods have two to three foot garages that were built in the 60s. 00:56:50
Back the property. 00:56:57
So some of the situations that we were coming up with was this idea of. 00:57:00
In line additions if they needed to expand it. 00:57:06
They would all be able to expand the nonconforming set back up to 50% of what was there. 00:57:10
Before they have to come into compliance and add on to it at the 10 foot. 00:57:15
The graduated height would still comply. Usually that wouldn't get you a second level over the existing. 00:57:21
And then I think we had under here. 00:57:30
The idea that, well, if you have a garage in the basement level is your Adu. 00:57:35
Than the template set back you have this 100 foot. 00:57:41
Reduction. 00:57:47
When you're below level like you got over here. 00:57:48
Which is which is a valid. I mean it's a valid. 00:57:56
No. 00:58:06
This is why laws are so. 00:58:08
Right. It's like there's so many variables, so many. 00:58:10
So and then on the next in our report on Page 3, again talking about conversion of existing buildings. 00:58:27
They could still request the treatments chart. 00:58:35
To mitigate whatever set back that they currently have. 00:58:39
So they had to spend some money. 00:58:43
To keep the set back that they currently have to convert a garage into an Adu. 00:58:45
Meaning they would have to build that 8 foot masonry wall. They would have to install all the landscaping of the buffer against 00:58:50
the neighbor. 00:58:53
To get this distance down to where they're at. 00:58:58
May not work. 00:59:01
Cheaper than moving the garage, yeah, and. 00:59:04
It does create. 00:59:08
So you're. 00:59:10
Because these garages are just up so close, it creates protection. 00:59:11
And by the time they get so far into some of these. 00:59:20
Extreme measures. 00:59:24
How you likely that if? 00:59:27